Phil talking about Kobe and Jordan comparison (11/25)

[catch24]

lol @ the end of the vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSv9mPAePC8

[cotdt]

The title is misleading. Phil basically says that Kobe used Jordan's moves at first but became less and less Jordan-like as time went on, so the comparisons are fading.

[catch24]

The title is misleading. Phil basically says that Kobe used Jordan's moves at first but became less and less Jordan-like as time went on, so the comparisons are fading.

The title isn't misleading at all. He was talking about the comparison and how Kobe really wanted to be Michael Jordan early on in his career.

[BallersTalk]

You guys understand that Phil is STILL Kobe's coach right? Anything he says right now will be biased. Wait until he's no longer coach. Remember his book? THAT was unbiased cause he released it when he was no longer coach.

[Rekindled]

i agree with Phil. kobe has been copying bird recently.

[cotdt]

i agree with Phil. kobe has been copying bird recently.

He's more like a guard version of Hakeem this season.

[Quizno]

seriously, kobe has no moves of his own. sometimes he bounces the ball off of the floor so it hits his hand, then bounces it continuously up the court. blatant thievery from the way john stockton would bounce the ball. and those times where he jumps into the air and throws the ball toward the basket and it goes in? wow, trying way too hard to be like pete maravich. he's pathetic.

[Jasper]

again

[catch24]

seriously, kobe has no moves of his own. sometimes he bounces the ball off of the floor so it hits his hand, then bounces it continuously up the court. blatant thievery from the way john stockton would bounce the ball. and those times where he jumps into the air and throws the ball toward the basket and it goes in? wow, trying way too hard to be like pete maravich. he's pathetic.

:cry: :cry:

[purple32gold]

:cry: :cry:
sarcasm detectors turned off today? all nba players borrow moves from each other what a stupid ****ing thing to argue about.

[catch24]

sarcasm detectors turned off today? all nba players borrow moves from each other what a stupid ****ing thing to argue about.

I knew he was being sarcastic. It just sounded like he was being emotional because Phil said the 100% truth.

Kobe has emulated Michael Jordan almost to a T. If you can't see that, I don't know what to say.

[2LeTTeRS]

sarcasm detectors turned off today? all nba players borrow moves from each other what a stupid ****ing thing to argue about.

But, but, but if we don't down Kobe for copying MJ what else can we criticize him for? You gotta leave something for his haters to talk about, he already has proved he can win without Shaq.

[purple32gold]

I knew he was being sarcastic. It just sounded like he was being emotional because Phil said the 100% truth.

Kobe has emulated Michael Jordan almost to a T. If you can't see that, I don't know what to say.
all current nba players emulate retired nba players what does that have to do with anything. someone like kobe has known since his first step he was born to play ball. he studied to best (jordan, hakeem, ect.) in order to become the best. and jordan studied folks like elgin baylor and so on and so on.

[phoenix18]

I will like to take the time to speak.
*clears throat*

Kobe is just not.... hmmm... how do I say this? Dude just doesnt have a real flavored personality so it probably took a while for the essence of his game to come out.

[Quizno]

this whole thing about stealing players' movies is seriously one the worst arguments i've ever heard. once upon a time in baseball, pitchers just threw the damn ball. then, some guy invented the curve ball, so was everybody who learned to throw a curve ball just copying him? no, dumb****, the game evolves.

[PistonsFan#21]

I knew he was being sarcastic. It just sounded like he was being emotional because Phil said the 100% truth.

Kobe has emulated Michael Jordan almost to a T. If you can't see that, I don't know what to say.

Dude you do realise that Phil is like 70 years old? He probably doesnt even know what hes talking about. The only things Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant have in common is that they are both 6'6" afro american NBA players. Let me guess...Kobe copied his height too and made sure to stop growing once he reached Jordan's height?

[catch24]

all current nba players emulate retired nba players what does that have to do with anything. someone like kobe has known since his first step he was born to play ball. he studied to best (jordan, hakeem, ect.) in order to become the best. and jordan studied folks like elgin baylor and so on and so on.

Noted. But no other player has emulated Jordan like Kobe's done. That's why Michael Wilbon raised the question..."Early on it seemed Kobe consciously went out of his way to Emulate Jordan". I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but for someone who didn't like Michael growing up due to being a Magic fan, his game sure looks eerily similar. I'm sure i'm stating the obvious though.

[catch24]

Dude you do realise that Phil is like 70 years old? He probably doesnt even know what hes talking about. The only things Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant have in common is that they are both 6'6" afro american NBA players. Let me guess...Kobe copied his height too and made sure to stop growing once he reached Jordan's height?

Yeah, I guess Wilbon has alzheimer's too.

[KenneBell]

Bruce Blitz is a true stan. I don't see how he got that title from what Phil said.

[BallersTalk]

Dude you do realise that Phil is like 70 years old? He probably doesnt even know what hes talking about. The only things Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant have in common is that they are both 6'6" afro american NBA players. Let me guess...Kobe copied his height too and made sure to stop growing once he reached Jordan's height?
Actually, Kobe's slightly taller than MJ.

[oh the horror]

Must be nice to have the tools, and the talent to be ABLE to copy Jordan's style at all. Thats all I have to say about that.

[BallersTalk]

Bruce Blitz is a true stan. I don't see how he got that title from what Phil said.
You understand how funny it is when a Kobe homer calls someone else a 'stan' right? lol

[BallersTalk]

Must be nice to have the tools, and the talent to be ABLE to copy Jordan's style at all. Thats all I have to say about that.
Imagine how much more talent it took to come up with them in the first place. Who do you think is more talented? The guy that came up with something or the guy that copied it from that guy?

[KenneBell]

You understand how funny it is when a Kobe homer calls someone else a 'stan' right? lol
How am I a Kobe homer? A Lakers fan, yes.

It was obvious that Phil was talking about the similarities in their games and how Kobe's has gotten further away as time has gone on.

And yes, Bruce is a true stan. His whole life has been dedicated to Jordan. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Look at his Youtube page.

[phoenix18]

Must be nice to have the tools, and the talent to be ABLE to copy Jordan's style at all. Thats all I have to say about that.
Somewhere, Oscar is wondering when he can get some credit.

[kshutts1]

Imagine how much more talent it took to come up with them in the first place. Who do you think is more talented? The guy that came up with something or the guy that copied it from that guy?
I knew I had you ignored for a reason :lol

If you can pull it off, you have talent -- period. Jordan MAY have had more creativity... but last I checked (and as others have noted) Jordan himself "copied" the greats before him. You're at a competitive disadvantage if you don't look at WHAT WAS SUCCESSFUL BEFORE YOU.

You ever go to school? Did you do homework? Were you doing it because YOU wanted to? Or because it's proven to help increase grades?

Jordan's, and his contemporaries', moves were proven to work.. so should Kobe shun them? That is a laughable proposition:roll:

[kshutts1]

Somewhere, Oscar is wondering when he can get some credit.
I like you as a poster, Phoenix, but you should change your user tag to "X says hi"... but seriously.. that "gimmick" is getting old. Just saying.. you're better than that.

[phoenix18]

I like you as a poster, Phoenix, but you should change your user tag to "X says hi"... but seriously.. that "gimmick" is getting old. Just saying.. you're better than that.
Wha?

I am just saying that Oscar Robertson was the first person I have seen using a fadeaway like MJ did. That's all.

[BallersTalk]

How am I a Kobe homer? A Lakers fan, yes.

It was obvious that Phil was talking about the similarities in their games and how Kobe's has gotten further away as time has gone on.

And yes, Bruce is a true stan. His whole life has been dedicated to Jordan. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Look at his Youtube page.
At least he provides evidence. You just spew your Kobe drivel with no backing. And you do it all over the site. I wasn't just referring to this particular thread. It's hilarious how you try to deny it in an attempt to retain your credibility.

[kshutts1]

Wha?

I am just saying that Oscar Robertson was the first person I have seen using a fadeaway like MJ did. That's all.
White RB.. etc etc.. Tim Tebow says hi
That's just the latest one I read, so I remember it.. but that, then the Oscar reference in this thread that is very similar (though at least not identical), and I have read at least two others in the past 2 days... You're better than that amount of repetition is all

[BallersTalk]

I knew I had you ignored for a reason :lol

If you can pull it off, you have talent -- period. Jordan MAY have had more creativity... but last I checked (and as others have noted) Jordan himself "copied" the greats before him. You're at a competitive disadvantage if you don't look at WHAT WAS SUCCESSFUL BEFORE YOU.

You ever go to school? Did you do homework? Were you doing it because YOU wanted to? Or because it's proven to help increase grades?

Jordan's, and his contemporaries', moves were proven to work.. so should Kobe shun them? That is a laughable proposition:roll:
Point to one move of Jordan's and find where it was copied. Just ONE move. On the other hand you can watch one Kobe game and find about 10 instances where he copied it from ONE person.

[KenneBell]

At least he provides evidence. You just spew your Kobe drivel with no backing. And you do it all over the site. I wasn't just referring to this particular thread. It's hilarious how you try to deny it in an attempt to retain your credibility.
Please, give some evidence of my "Kobe spewing", all over the site nonetheless. :roll:

[Younggrease]

Point to one move of Jordan's and find where it was copied. Just ONE move. On the other hand you can watch one Kobe game and find about 10 instances where he copied it from ONE person.

Jordan didnt make up moves...i think this just shows a lack of knowledge of basketball. The reason only Kobe is doing some of MJ more complex moves is b/c he is the only player with the combo of athletic talent and skill to pull them off. They are the same height and "Jordan's moves" are the same ones taught in camps etc. from the age of 5 and on. Its just that others cant do them with that kind of profiency and at that level.

[BallersTalk]

Please, give some evidence of my "Kobe spewing", all over the site nonetheless. :roll:
If this site's cheap-a$$ owner would activate the search function, I could. But don't worry, I'll bookmark this thread and point to it every time you're caught of propping up Kobe.

[catch24]

Point to one move of Jordan's and find where it was copied. Just ONE move. On the other hand you can watch one Kobe game and find about 10 instances where he copied it from ONE person.

I've yet to see any moves Jordan emulated that weren't his own (fundamentals aside).

[KenneBell]

If this site's cheap-a$$ owner would activate the search function, I could. But don't worry, I'll bookmark this thread and point to it every time you're caught of propping up Kobe.
It is up.

And I'm pretty confident that you talk about Kobe more than almost anyone in here.

[Younggrease]

I've yet to see any moves Jordan emulated that weren't his own (fundamentals aside).

Individuals in the NBA dont have moves...This isnt street fighter. Every move in the NBA is based off fundamentals or some combination of them. The only thing that might sall outside of that box are the acrobatic things.

[KenneBell]

LOL Bruce deleted a comment I made. :oldlol:

He needs to come back on this board. The guy was hilarious at his best.

[BallersTalk]

Jordan didnt make up moves...i think this just shows a lack of knowledge of basketball. The reason only Kobe is doing some of MJ more complex moves is b/c he is the only player with the combo of athletic talent and skill to pull them off. They are the same height and "Jordan's moves" are the same ones taught in camps etc. from the age of 5 and on. Its just that others cant do them with that kind of profiency and at that level.
BS. Point to ONE MJ move that was an exact copy of someone else's move. Just ONE. And BS that Kobe was the only one with the athleticism/skill combo. Kobe's 'athleticism' is a dime a dozen in the NBA. It wasn't rare like Jordan's. What set Kobe apart was how early his skills were developed, which gave him much more time to refine them. He was taught early what to do and what not to do so he never developed bad habits (besides arrogance). His father being an former NBA player and a former pro player in Italy didn't hurt of course. Why am I even arguing with you? You've never been able to discuss Kobe objectively. Jordan took pieces from other players, blended them and then created his own. Kobe COPIED his moves to a T. Those are completely different situations.

[BallersTalk]

It is up.

And I'm pretty confident that you talk about Kobe more than almost anyone in here.
That's because 90% of the threads are either about Kobe or end up being about Kobe. If you idiots would stay in the Laker forums, I'd have something better to contribute. Most of you aren't even real basketball fans. Just casual fans of basketball and hardcore fans of Kobe. That's what makes you all pathetic.

[catch24]

Individuals in the NBA dont have moves...This isnt street fighter. Every move in the NBA is based off fundamentals or some combination of them. The only thing that might sall outside of that box are the acrobatic things.

Of course this isn't a video game, you're way off. The way he got his shots off, the spins needed, the artistry in that particular move/shot/pass is something Jordan created and I've never seen prior to him.

[HighFlyer23]

kobe is a student of the game ... he's added as many moves as possible to his arsenal hence and some of you find that wrong for some reason .. players don't have a copyright over basketball moves :confusedshrug:

[BallersTalk]

Kobe fagboys. Just admit it. Kobe copied MJ. End of story.

[Younggrease]

BS. Point to ONE MJ move that was an exact copy of someone else's move. Just ONE. And BS that Kobe was the only one with the athleticism/skill combo. Kobe's 'athleticism' is a dime a dozen in the NBA. It wasn't rare like Jordan's. What set Kobe apart was how early his skills were developed, which gave him much more time to refine them. He was taught early what to do and what not to do so he never developed bad habits (besides arrogance). His father being an former NBA player and a former pro player in Italy didn't hurt of course. Why am I even arguing with you? You've never been able to discuss Kobe objectively. Jordan took pieces from other players, blended them and then created his own. Kobe COPIED his moves to a T. Those are completely different situations.

what is a MJ move? a jab step? a pull up jumper? a reverse layup? a tomahawk dunk?

[Younggrease]

Kobe fagboys. Just admit it. Kobe copied MJ. End of story.

your a sad human being...its the day before Thanksgiving and this is how you choose to spend you evening. Str8 hating and calling people "Kobe f@gboys" Step your life up

[BallersTalk]

kobe is a student of the game ... he's added as many moves as possible to his arsenal his game and some of you find that wrong for some reason .. players don't have a copyright over basketball moves :confusedshrug:
That's not the point. It's that people refuse to acknowledge that Kobe coming into the league solely focused his studies on MJ. They want Kobe to seem like this revolutionary player. JORDAN was revolutionary. Kobe is just a poor imitation of a legend. Plain and simple. But these ******s won't admit it.

[catch24]

That's not the point. It's that people refuse to acknowledge that Kobe coming into the league solely focused his studies on MJ. They want Kobe to seem like this revolutionary player. JORDAN was revolutionary. Kobe is just a poor imitation of a legend. Plain and simple. But these ******s won't admit it.

I don't agree with your premise, but you're right for the most part. Jordan revolutionized the game. Kobe has not, he's just not an originator. My favorite player, by far the most skilled scorer in the league, but...

[steeph28]

Kobe fagboys. Just admit it. Kobe copied MJ. End of story.

nope sorry. maybe next time?

[Younggrease]

Of course this isn't a video game, you're way off. The way he got his shots off, the spins needed, the artistry in that particular move/shot/pass is something Jordan created and I've never seen prior to him.

Jordan knew how to play the game. The spins are used because they are the correct bball move, not because Jordan did it. The artistry, its just Kobe doing the moves in fluid fashion. You cant change the manner in which your body moves. Everyone tries to act like Kobe can do superhuman things when they are trying to bring him down. I guess if Kobe wanted he could have made his body move like Isiah Thomas, or Bird or Dominque but he just choose Jordan(as you say). Kobe doesnt even move like Jordan most the time. There fadeaways are the same because they are both perfect textbook fadeaways. There jab steps are similar because they are both text book as well. Contrary to popular belief Jordan didnt make the textbook

[oh the horror]

That's not the point. It's that people refuse to acknowledge that Kobe coming into the league solely focused his studies on MJ. They want Kobe to seem like this revolutionary player. JORDAN was revolutionary. Kobe is just a poor imitation of a legend. Plain and simple. But these ******s won't admit it.


So what are you even trying to accomplish right now other than coming off as a condescending a-hole to people here?


In your mind, Kobe copying moves from someone as great as Jordan, as im sure many have done before, negates everything Kobe has done in his career or something?


Kobe Bryant has etched himself as one of the greats. You can like it, or you can hate it, but the fact remains that the man has done remarkable things for HIMSELF in this business. Jordan or NOT.

[HighFlyer23]

nope sorry. maybe next time?

No he's actually right and Kobe himself would tell you he "copied MJ" ... but he also "copied" Bird, Hakeem, Magic and plenty of other legends

[catch24]

Jordan knew how to play the game. The spins are used because they are the correct bball move, not because Jordan did it. The artistry, its just Kobe doing the moves in fluid fashion. You cant change the manner in which your body moves. Everyone tries to act like Kobe can do superhuman things when they are trying to bring him down. I guess if Kobe wanted he could have made his body move like Isiah Thomas, or Bird or Dominque but he just choose Jordan(as you say). Kobe doesnt even move like Jordan most the time. There fadeaways are the same because they are both perfect textbook fadeaways. There jab steps are similar because they are both text book as well. Contrary to popular belief Jordan didnt make the textbook

The fadeaways are near identical. No one is saying Jordan made the textbook. The point is Kobe emulated Michael Jordan, and anyone with two eyeballs can see this (especially the young Kobe). Phil Jackson summed it up perfectly to be honest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74zX6R2qbrs - Something not made by Bruceblitz

[BallersTalk]

So what are you even trying to accomplish right now other than coming off as a condescending a-hole to people here?


In your mind, Kobe copying moves from someone as great as Jordan, as im sure many have done before, negates everything Kobe has done in his career or something?


Kobe Bryant has etched himself as one of the greats. You can like it, or you can hate it, but the fact remains that the man has done remarkable things for HIMSELF in this business. Jordan or NOT.
Nope. I'm stating facts. People saying Kobe DIDN'T copy MJ or MJ's taking pieces of other players' games are the same as what Kobe did. I'm just explaining to you it isn't. Kobe's done some great things. But to be put in the same breath as Jordan is a disrespect to the sport.

[Younggrease]

The fadeaways are near identical. No one is saying Jordan made the textbook. The point is Kobe emulated Michael Jordan, and anyone with two eyeballs can see this (especially the young Kobe). Phil Jackson summed it up perfectly to be honest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74zX6R2qbrs - Something not made by Bruceblitz

so they both followed the textbook? Im sure if MJ did it slightly wrong Kobe wouldnt have followed it? I dont get it to be honest. Would you like it if Kobe show the fadeaway in a way that wasnt correct? Or if Kobe shoots it correct its always copying Jordan...

Im confused

[BallersTalk]

Jordan knew how to play the game. The spins are used because they are the correct bball move, not because Jordan did it. The artistry, its just Kobe doing the moves in fluid fashion. You cant change the manner in which your body moves. Everyone tries to act like Kobe can do superhuman things when they are trying to bring him down. I guess if Kobe wanted he could have made his body move like Isiah Thomas, or Bird or Dominque but he just choose Jordan(as you say). Kobe doesnt even move like Jordan most the time. There fadeaways are the same because they are both perfect textbook fadeaways. There jab steps are similar because they are both text book as well. Contrary to popular belief Jordan didnt make the textbook
What would end this all is if you guys would admit this very little thing. Jordan was the greatest ever and Kobe's idol (though he refuses to admit it time and time again even though he used to ask MJ for tips when they played against each other). So why would Kobe copy anyone else?

[branslowski]

If I played Golf, I would study Tiger Woods skills....And if somehow in result to that, I become one of the greatest golfers of All-Time and become a legend, then I made the right move....Also, we can try to do what another player did, but you have to execute it, and that my friend is the even more challenging factor...And Kobe is arguably more skilled than Jordan.

Kobe hasn't just got moves from Jordan, but iv'e seen some Bird, Magic, Clyde in him too...His post game is f*cking off the charts...He's getting moves from Hakeem...I find it odd that there's ppl who has a problem with that..:confusedshrug:

Bruce should come back to this forum and do his own work...Get that ass handed to him like he use to..

[BallersTalk]

so they both followed the textbook? Im sure if MJ did it slightly wrong Kobe wouldnt have followed it? I dont get it to be honest. Would you like it if Kobe show the fadeaway in a way that wasnt correct? Or if Kobe shoots it correct its always copying Jordan...

Im confused
So Jordan is the only player to have "textbook moves" GTFO with that Kobe troll shit. This is the point. You can't point to any two players in NBA History with more glaring similarities in styles than those two. And since Jordan came first, one can only deduce how Kobe came up with his style. If Kobe came first, we'd be saying the same stuff about Jordan (except obviously we'd be saying Jordan improved on his moves).

[catch24]

so they both followed the textbook? Im sure if MJ did it slightly wrong Kobe wouldnt have followed it? I dont get it to be honest. Would you like it if Kobe show the fadeaway in a way that wasnt correct? Or if Kobe shoots it correct its always copying Jordan...

Im confused

Jordan had his own style and his fadeaway is something he originated - balance/control, athleticism, form, everything. Kobe simply emulated Jordan, it's not hard to comprehend. I don't want him to do anything, I just simply posted the link and I agree with Phil. Kobe never said Michael influenced his game though, nor did he give him any credit.

[BallersTalk]

If I played Golf, I would study Tiger Woods skills....And if somehow in result to that, I become one of the greatest golfers of All-Time and become a legend, then I made the right move....Also, we can try to do what another player did, but you have to execute it, and that my friend is the even more challenging factor...And Kobe is arguably more skilled than Jordan.

Kobe hasn't just got moves from Jordan, but iv'e seen some Bird, Magic, Clyde in him too...His post game is f*cking off the charts...He's getting moves from Hakeem...I find it odd that there's ppl who has a problem with that..:confusedshrug:

Bruce should come back to this forum and do his own work...Get that ass handed to him like he use to..
Hey look it's Fatal9 and KB42PAH's secretary.

[EMERE]

Nope. I'm stating facts. People saying Kobe DIDN'T copy MJ or MJ's taking pieces of other players' games are the same as what Kobe did. I'm just explaining to you it isn't. Kobe's done some great things. But to be put in the same breath as Jordan is a disrespect to the sport.Please log off and don't log back in never again, i think you mention Kobes name more then the fan boys:rockon: nice accomplishment their dude:applause: Your a fan of the Knicks right? did you like what Kobe did in his 61 points in your own teams arena?:roll:

[Younggrease]

Nope. I'm stating facts. People saying Kobe DIDN'T copy MJ or MJ's taking pieces of other players' games are the same as what Kobe did. I'm just explaining to you it isn't. Kobe's done some great things. But to be put in the same breath as Jordan is a disrespect to the sport.

Do you understand what your doing. Your argument is pretty much nothing Kobe does is special because MJ played 2 guard and did it better. That can be said for every player in the league because no one is as good as MJ. Its an argument that an old, sad person out of pure hatred for Kobe(or better yet misplaced hatred for themselves and their own life, who hates like this on the daily basis)

Yes, Kobe isnt as good as Jordan. But neither was Oscar Robinson, Jerry West, Tim Duncan, Doctor J, Moses Malone, John Stockton, Shaq etc.

[BallersTalk]

Kobe didn't just BASE his game off Jordan. He straight copied them. How else would he come up with his tongue-wag? Jordan's got a story behind his. What's Kobe's excuse?

[BallersTalk]

Do you understand what your doing. Your argument is pretty much nothing Kobe does is special because MJ played 2 guard and did it better. That can be said for every player in the league because no one is as good as MJ. Its an argument that an old, sad person out of pure hatred for Kobe(or better yet misplaced hatred for themselves and their own life, who hates like this on the daily basis)

Yes, Kobe isnt as good as Jordan. But neither was Oscar Robinson, Jerry West, Tim Duncan, Doctor J, Moses Malone, John Stockton, Shaq etc.
Do you see what YOU'RE doing? You're making Kobe look like this generational once-in-a-lifetime player when he isn't. The problem with Kobe is like someone else just said, he has never once seriously acknowledged MJ's influence on him. As if that makes him a lesser player. To him it's like admitting defeat. And I think that's how you, his homers, think as well. Why can't people just admit it? He copied MJ. End of story. That's my argument.

[branslowski]

Kobe didn't just BASE his game off Jordan. He straight copied them. How else would he come up with his tongue-wag? Jordan's got a story behind his. What's Kobe's excuse?

You seem to have Kobe on your tongue everyday...What's your excuse?


Anyway, Im pretty sure Bryant watched Jordan when he was younger...And im pretty sure he knew MJ was the Greatest...He knew MJ had style...So he sticks his tongue out aswell, time for the earth to explode...:violin:

[Younggrease]

No, Jordan had his own style and his fadeaway is something he originated - balance/control, athleticism, form, everything. Kobe simply emulated Jordan, it's not hard to comprehend. I don't want him to do anything, I just simply posted the link and I agree with Phil. Kobe never said Michael influenced his game though, nor did he give him any credit.

if you think this I question how much formal basketball training you had. Because this stuff has been taught in camps since I started going in 5th grade to the ones I have taught at as recently as 2 years ago. Yes, Kobe put parts of MJ in his game the same way he put parts of CP3 in his game, the same way his does the baby sky hook, or the dream shake, or the Larry Bird stand still shot from the forehead. But guess what I have seen people take those same shots who have never watched Larry Bird play, they take them because the game of basketball presents them. Basketball is a fluid game and the more skills you have combined with the necessary athletism opens Kobe up to being able to do all these moves while a guy like Lebron or Wade cant.

Kobe has take moves from anyone that has shown they work. Jordan won 6 rings and was the same height and played in the same offense. It would be retarded not to learn from the things that were successful to him.

[amfirst]

So Jordan is the only player to have "textbook moves" GTFO with that Kobe troll shit. This is the point. You can't point to any two players in NBA History with more glaring similarities in styles than those two. And since Jordan came first, one can only deduce how Kobe came up with his style. If Kobe came first, we'd be saying the same stuff about Jordan (except obviously we'd be saying Jordan improved on his moves).

Since when did MJ invented the fade or the jab step. As I recalled all these moves were already done, so he must copied someone from before. However, it's a crime for Kobe to copy the same moves. These hypocrites. :lol

[BallersTalk]

You seem to have Kobe on your tongue everyday...What's your excuse?


Anyway, Im pretty sure Bryant watched Jordan when he was younger...And im pretty sure he knew MJ was the Greatest...He knew MJ had style...So he sticks his tongue out aswell, time for the earth to explode...:violin:
Yes, but he's never once admitted this unless someone's jamming it down his throat and he doesn't wanna step on any toes. This is why I can tolerate LeBron and Wade. They may be cocky, but they give credit where credit is due. Kobe however never does. Coming into the NBA he claimed he hated Jordan and was a Magic fan. Why lie?

[BallersTalk]

Since when did MJ invented the fade or the jab step. As I recalled all these moves were already done, so he must copied someone from before. However, it's a crime for Kobe to copy the same moves. These hypocrites. :lol
It's not the moves in particular. It's HOW he did them. His style, his mechanics. Kobe straight copied them. No question about that. Stop with your BS. How can there be so many Kobe trolls all on the same site? I shoulda went on a killing spree on you punks when I visited LA.

[chazzy]

Yes, but he's never once admitted this unless someone's jamming it down his throat and he doesn't wanna step on any toes. This is why I can tolerate LeBron and Wade. They may be cocky, but they give credit where credit is due. Kobe however never does. Coming into the NBA he claimed he hated Jordan and was a Magic fan. Why lie?

Why does that bother you so much? Who f'n cares..

[EMERE]

Do you see what YOU'RE doing? You're making Kobe look like this generational once-in-a-lifetime player when he isn't. The problem with Kobe is like someone else just said, he has never once seriously acknowledged MJ's influence on him. As if that makes him a lesser player. To him it's like admitting defeat. And I think that's how you, his homers, think as well. Why can't people just admit it? He copied MJ. End of story. That's my argument.Wow dude didn't i tell you to logg off and never come back again?:oldlol: i wish i had the moderator powers!:rant this hole whatever you wrote summarizes a sad lonely man who's only hope is to sign into a "messageboard" and gets hyped up writing essays about a player who doesn't even acknowledge you, i feel pity for you my son, its only going to get worse when this certain player you hate gets more rings.:applause:

[chazzy]

I shoulda went on a killing spree on you punks when I visited LA.

Death threats now? Is Kate Faber your sister or something? wow..

[catch24]

if you think this I question how much formal basketball training you had. Because this stuff has been taught in camps since I started going in 5th grade to the ones I have taught at as recently as 2 years ago. Yes, Kobe put parts of MJ in his game the same way he put parts of CP3 in his game, the same way his does the baby sky hook, or the dream shake, or the Larry Bird stand still shot from the forehead. But guess what I have seen people take those same shots who have never watched Larry Bird play, they take them because the game of basketball presents them. Basketball is a fluid game and the more skills you have combined with the necessary athletism opens Kobe up to being able to do all these moves while a guy like Lebron or Wade cant.

Kobe has take moves from anyone that has shown they work. Jordan won 6 rings and was the same height and played in the same offense. It would be retarded not to learn from the things that were successful to him.

I question your knowledge and how you watch the game itself. If you can't see something right in front of you, I really don't know what to say. Phil agrees, most of the media agrees, hell even some Kobe fans do. Kobe's game (for the most part) is predicated off Jordan's. Not 100%, but for the MOST part it is. lol @ jordan's jumpshot not being 'based' on athleticism, form, repetition. Those purple and yellow locs are really clouding your judgement. You playing bball at the age 5 or what you "learned" has nothing to do with these 2 great ball players. Not relevant what so ever.

[EMERE]

Wow dude didn't i tell you to logg off and never come back again?:oldlol: i wish i had the moderator powers!:rant this hole whatever you wrote summarizes a sad lonely man who's only hope is to sign into a "messageboard" and gets hyped up writing essays about a player who doesn't even acknowledge you, i feel pity for you my son, its only going to get worse when this certain player you hate gets more rings.:applause:I guess this dude finally gave up.

[amfirst]

It's not the moves in particular. It's HOW he did them. His style, his mechanics. Kobe straight copied them. No question about that. Stop with your BS. How can there be so many Kobe trolls all on the same site? I shoulda went on a killing spree on you punks when I visited LA.

Nope, Kobe's fade is not exactly like MJ. MJ brought his ball down lower and bent his knees for more elevation. I know, I try to copy MJ's fade. Kobe doesn't do it exactly like him due to his shot probably being different. There are a ton of other players with a fade more like MJ than Kobe. Well at least the turn around fade.

[HighFlyer23]

It's not the moves in particular. It's HOW he did them. His style, his mechanics. Kobe straight copied them. No question about that. Stop with your BS. How can there be so many Kobe trolls all on the same site? I shoulda went on a killing spree on you punks when I visited LA.

Over a dispute between two men who bounce a small orange ball around?

Of course :rolleyes:

[Younggrease]

I question your knowledge and how you watch the game itself. If you can't see something right in front of you, I really don't know what to say. Phil agrees, most of the media agrees, hell even some Kobe fans do. Kobe's game (for the most part) is predicated off Jordan's. Not 100%, but for the MOST part it is. lol @ jordan's jumpshot not being 'based' on athleticism, form, repetition. Those purple and yellow locs are really clouding your judgement. You playing bball at the age 5 or what you "learned" has nothing to do with these 2 great ball players. Not relevant what so ever.

I dont think you understand how basketball is taught and what can be taught or acquired. That is why it is relevant. Kobe probably has been shooting the same way since he was 12, he was getting shooting lessons from his dad as well as NBA and Italian pros. I doubt he copied exclusively of Jordan, needless to say there shoot is not identical. Kobe actually keeps his shooting arm more in an L shape and thus is a more text book form.

I just realize basketball didnt start with MJ and it didnt end with MJ. These are MJ's moves, they are moves that are done in the game of basketball. Yes copied has taken some things from Jordan, but when you assert that he copied his game that is just a disservice to the game of basketball. You are in essense saying that Jordan has a patent on all basketball moves.

[BallersTalk]

Nope, Kobe's fade is not exactly like MJ. MJ brought his ball down lower and bent his knees for more elevation. I know, I try to copy MJ's fade. Kobe doesn't do it exactly like him due to his shot probably being different. There are a ton of other players with a fade more like MJ than Kobe.
Kobe sure did try though. Not his fault he has a white man's vertical and little girl hands.

[Fatal9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74zX6R2qbrs - Something not made by Bruceblitz
According to this video, you are swagger jacking MJ if you do the following things:

- if the cameraman decides to pan from your shoes up
- make an anticipated block on the baseline through help defense
- make any sort of an acrobatic move around the basket
- make a gamewinner
- do a fist pump
- make a no look pass
- make a half spin fadeaway in the post (Bird, Oscar and others were doing this before either was in the league)

Just ridiculous. What you SHOULD hate Kobe for copying is the mannerisms, not these very common moves. You can hate him for speaking exactly like him, putting his wristband at the exact spot MJ did, sticking his tongue out (especially when he was younger), walking backwards and doing the fingerwag etc etc...but this whole "copying" moves sh*t is ridiculous when many others have done it before and after them. Both are two of the three most skilled players ever so it's natural that they are capable of making similar moves, and the other one, Bird, wasn't as athletic as them or we'd be accusing MJ of copying him, because there are a LOT of similarities in how they played (especially in the post).

[BallersTalk]

Death threats now? Is Kate Faber your sister or something? wow..
People have killed for much less.

[BallersTalk]

According to this video, you are swagger jacking MJ if you do the following things:

- if the cameraman decides to pan from your shoes up
- make an anticipated block on the baseline through help defense
- make any sort of an acrobatic move around the basket
- make a gamewinner
- do a fist pump
- make a no look pass
- make a half spin fadeaway in the post (Bird, Oscar and others were doing this before either was in the league)

Just ridiculous. What you SHOULD hate Kobe for copying is the mannerisms, not these very common moves. You can hate him for speaking exactly like him, putting his wristband at the exact spot MJ did, sticking his tongue out (especially when he was younger), walking backwards and doing the fingerwag etc etc...but this whole "copying" moves sh*t is ridiculous when many others have done it before and after them. Both are two of the three most skilled players ever so it's natural that they are capable of making similar moves, and the other one, Bird, wasn't as athletic as them or we'd be accusing MJ of copying him, because there are a LOT of similarities in how they played (especially in the post).
Only a matter of time before our resident #1 Kobe whackjob put in his 2 cents (he took KB42PAH's #1 spot when he disappeared).

[catch24]

I dont think you understand how basketball is taught and what can be taught or acquired. That is why it is relevant. Kobe probably has been shooting the same way since he was 12, he was getting shooting lessons from his dad as well as NBA and Italian pros. I doubt he copied exclusively of Jordan, needless to say there shoot is not identical. Kobe actually keeps his shooting arm more in an L shape and thus is a more text book form.

I just realize basketball didnt start with MJ and it didnt end with MJ. These are MJ's moves, they are moves that are done in the game of basketball. Yes copied has taken some things from Jordan, but when you assert that he copied his game that is just a disservice to the game of basketball. You are in essense saying that Jordan has a patent on all basketball moves.

No one is arguing basketball was started with MJ or not. The point is (not based on basketball fundamentals - your argument), Kobe thoroughly watched video tape of Jordan and emulated him. That simple. Phil says it perfectly. What's there not to understand? Your logic is influenced by Kobe, from what I can see.

[branslowski]

Yes, but he's never once admitted this unless someone's jamming it down his throat and he doesn't wanna step on any toes. This is why I can tolerate LeBron and Wade. They may be cocky, but they give credit where credit is due. Kobe however never does. Coming into the NBA he claimed he hated Jordan and was a Magic fan. Why lie?

Here's the thing about that....While yes, it would make sense to give credit where it is due...We all know Kobe is the ultimate competitor..He doesn't give anyone an inch..Kobe is arrogant...Most hatew that, but most love it aswell..

Anyaway, Kobe has already called Jordan the GOAT, so what more do we want?...So if you want Kobe to start sucking on MJ's c*ck (like LeBron), you will be really dissapointed.....

But if your truley upset because Kobe doesn't give Jordan this credit that Jordan somehow needs, then...I actually feel sorry for you...

[EMERE]

Only a matter of time before our resident #1 Kobe whackjob put in his 2 cents (he took KB42PAH's #1 spot when he disappeared).Your the one thats a wacko, your fking weird dude i feel sorry for your family.

[catch24]

According to this video, you are swagger jacking MJ if you do the following things:

- if the cameraman decides to pan from your shoes up
- make an anticipated block on the baseline through help defense
- make any sort of an acrobatic move around the basket
- make a gamewinner
- do a fist pump
- make a no look pass
- make a half spin fadeaway in the post (Bird, Oscar and others were doing this before either was in the league)

Just ridiculous. What you SHOULD hate Kobe for copying is the mannerisms, not these very common moves. You can hate him for speaking exactly like him, putting his wristband at the exact spot MJ did, sticking his tongue out (especially when he was younger), walking backwards and doing the fingerwag etc etc...but this whole "copying" moves sh*t is ridiculous when many others have done it before and after them. Both are two of the three most skilled players ever so it's natural that they are capable of making similar moves, and the other one, Bird, wasn't as athletic as them or we'd be accusing MJ of copying him, because there are a LOT of similarities in how they played (especially in the post).

:hammerhead:

Stop whining. Kobe is his own dude, but his game has eerily similar "Jordanesque" influence.

[Fatal9]

Your the one thats a wacko, your fking weird dude i feel sorry for your family.
I know right, dude has a lot of teenage angst built up inside him. Made a thread about suicide the other day....one can only hope he goes through with it :confusedshrug:

[branslowski]

I know right, dude has a lot of teenage angst built up inside him. Made a thread about suicide the other day....one can only hope he goes through with it :confusedshrug:

He wont...As long as Bryant is still in the league...Keeps him going ya know.:confusedshrug:

[BallersTalk]

Here's the thing about that....While yes, it would make sense to give credit where it is due...We all know Kobe is the ultimate competitor..He doesn't give anyone an inch..Kobe is arrogant...Most hatew that, but most love it aswell..

Anyaway, Kobe has already called Jordan the GOAT, so what more do we want?...So if you want Kobe to start sucking on MJ's c*ck (like LeBron), you will be really dissapointed.....

But if your truley upset because Kobe doesn't give Jordan this credit that Jordan somehow needs, then...I actually feel sorry for you...
LOL at you feeling sorry for anyone. You're worshiping a person you've never met, will never meet, and will never know you're alive. And I'm the sorry one LOL. I'm not hating on him really. I'm just making sure people understand the facts. Kobe gets more overrated every day and it gets annoying.

[BallersTalk]

I know right, dude has a lot of teenage angst built up inside him. Made a thread about suicide the other day....one can only hope he goes through with it :confusedshrug:
Pretty sure I'm older than you are, kid.

[catch24]

Pretty sure I'm older than you are, kid.

Of course he'd drop by and leave some useless excuse (most of his posts). It starts and ends w/ Kobe with this Kid.

[Cyclone112]

According to this video, you are swagger jacking MJ if you do the following things:

- if the cameraman decides to pan from your shoes up
- make an anticipated block on the baseline through help defense
- make any sort of an acrobatic move around the basket
- make a gamewinner
- do a fist pump
- make a no look pass
- make a half spin fadeaway in the post (Bird, Oscar and others were doing this before either was in the league)

Just ridiculous. What you SHOULD hate Kobe for copying is the mannerisms, not these very common moves. You can hate him for speaking exactly like him, putting his wristband at the exact spot MJ did, sticking his tongue out (especially when he was younger), walking backwards and doing the fingerwag etc etc...but this whole "copying" moves sh*t is ridiculous when many others have done it before and after them. Both are two of the three most skilled players ever so it's natural that they are capable of making similar moves, and the other one, Bird, wasn't as athletic as them or we'd be accusing MJ of copying him, because there are a LOT of similarities in how they played (especially in the post).

Who would have thought that you and I would agree on something. Excluding the fist pump in your list I agree he should not be judged on stuff like that because its only natural to emulate moves from other NBA players. I'm sure most of us model many moves from one player or another. All the stuff in your last paragraph is part of the reasons I dislike him as well, the fact that he copies so many mannerisms/celebrations of MJ, that is just taking it too far. But at least Kobe's imitation of MJ gave us this classic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTX81NwDB20

[Roundball_Rock]

Since Scottie Pippen is my favorite player of all-time that automatically means I consider Kobe the GOAT and hence Kobe>MJ. Those are my two cents. It isn't much but the Church of Kobe requires me to donate to the collection plate in every possible thread on behalf of the GOAT. Sometimes I get frustrated with what Kobe makes us to do but then I open my closet and see my Kobe shrine and remember he is the GOAT, and with the GOAT all things are possible. :bowdown:

In case some paranoid MJ fans didn't get it, this post was 100% sarcasm

[KenneBell]

I know right, dude has a lot of teenage angst built up inside him. Made a thread about suicide the other day....one can only hope he goes through with it :confusedshrug:
:oldlol:

[EMERE]

Pretty sure I'm older than you are, kid.Kid really? your the one thats acting up, you need to get your life set up dude, so much hatred in one man is not good:no:not gonna take everything seriously since you now this is only the internetzzzz, but the way you post it makes me wonder emos this days

[BallersTalk]

Since Scottie Pippen is my favorite player of all-time that automatically means I consider Kobe the GOAT and hence Kobe>MJ. Those are my two cents. It isn't much but the Church of Kobe requires me to donate to the collection plate in every possible thread on behalf of the GOAT. Sometimes I get frustrated with what Kobe makes us to do but then I open my closet and see my Kobe shrine and remember he is the GOAT, and with the GOAT all things are possible. :bowdown:

In case some paranoid MJ fans didn't get it, this post was 100% sarcasm
Stay on one account, Fatal.

[rfm767]

So Jordan is the only player to have "textbook moves" GTFO with that Kobe troll shit. This is the point. You can't point to any two players in NBA History with more glaring similarities in styles than those two. And since Jordan came first, one can only deduce how Kobe came up with his style. If Kobe came first, we'd be saying the same stuff about Jordan (except obviously we'd be saying Jordan improved on his moves).

Dude, seriously, all your hating towards kobe and his fanboys isn't making you look any better than them. Go get some air.:pimp:

[BallersTalk]

This message is hidden because EMERE is on your ignore list.
This.

[branslowski]

LOL at you feeling sorry for anyone. You're worshiping a person you've never met, will never meet, and will never know you're alive. And I'm the sorry one LOL. I'm not hating on him really. I'm just making sure people understand the facts. Kobe gets more overrated every day and it gets annoying.

Ofcource...Im worshiping him...This is because I continue to respond to your idiotic post when it concerns to the Bean right? And once I own you like I always do, you revert to the homer jokes...:violin:

No one is overrating you...Saying positive things about Bryant doesn't translate to overrating him...But sh!t like..


Without the rings, Kobe is another Jerry Stackhouse

Is completely idiotic...Not to mention the Fact that you discuss Bryant more than me and im a Lakers/Kobe fan...Your a knicks fan..You talk Kobe 80% of the time...You've been banned for your stupidness before...Everyone with an Medium IQ knows Kobe has the Factual basis that ranks him in the 10-13 range...Only f*cked up in the head haters would have him way lower....

[shlver]

Jesus≥Kobe>Jordan.

[BallersTalk]

Ofcource...Im worshiping him...This is because I continue to respond to your idiotic post when it concerns to the Bean right? And once I own you like I always do, you revert to the homer jokes...:violin:

No one is overrating you...Saying positive things about Bryant doesn't translate to overrating him...But sh!t like..



Is completely idiotic...Not to mention the Fact that you discuss Bryant more than me and im a Lakers/Kobe fan...Your a knicks fan..You talk Kobe 80% of the time...You've been banned for your stupidness before...Everyone with an Medium IQ knows Kobe has the Factual basis that ranks him in the 10-13 range...Only f*cked up in the head haters would have him way lower....
BTW, I was banned for racism, not what I discuss basketball-wise.

Without the rings, that's exactly who he woulda been. That's not an insult. Stack was a terrific player.

[Roundball_Rock]

One account? Blasphemy! Fatal is the Pope of the Church of Kobe. I am a mere devout follower who helps where I can by sweeping the Church floor, mowing the grass, and preaching the Gopsel of Kobe as set forth by Pope Fatal wherever I can. BallersTalk, you too enjoy the benefits of the GOAT by joining. The GOAT welcomes all.

[catch24]

Without the rings, Kobe is another Jerry Stackhouse

:oldlol:

That's funny, but lets get serious now..

[andgar923]

I don't see Kobe trying to emulate being such a big deal.

I actually applaud him for it, and wish more players were like that.

[EMERE]

I don't really know whats more pathetic, him putting me on his ignore list since i just write on a message board and cannot effect his life at all, or him not accepting the truth, internetzzz people

[rfm767]

BTW, I was banned for racism, not what I discuss basketball-wise.

Without the rings, that's exactly who he woulda been. That's not an insult. Stack was a terrific player.
:lol

[BallersTalk]

I don't see Kobe trying to emulate being such a big deal.

I actually applaud him for it, and wish more players were like that.
But wouldn't you be annoyed if those players denied trying to be like Jordan when it's so clear? Kobe denied it for years early in his career. He went as far as to say he hated MJ growing up. Then finally, with almost a disgusted look on his face, he unwillingly admitted MJ was the greatest. You could probably find that interview on youtube.

[andgar923]

But wouldn't you be annoyed if those players denied trying to be like Jordan when it's so clear? Kobe denied it for years early in his career. He went as far as to say he hated MJ growing up. Then finally, with almost a disgusted look on his face, he unwillingly admitted MJ was the greatest. You could probably find that interview on youtube.

Yeah, this I agree with.

Kobe always seemed to want the comparisons, but rarely appeared to publicly give MJ the nod.

I still remember when he said it wasn't special playing against MJ, when he mentioned he patterned his game after Magic.

That is bothersome, but not that he does wanna be like Mike.

[BallersTalk]

Yeah, this I agree with.

Kobe always seemed to want the comparisons, but rarely appeared to publicly give MJ the nod.

I still remember when he said it wasn't special playing against MJ, when he mentioned he patterned his game after Magic.

That is bothersome, but not that he does wanna be like Mike.
Exactly. MJ gave credit where it was due even though I don't see ANY David Thompson in his game at all. Yet you see Jordan-lite in every one of Kobe's moves and he doesn't say anything at all. I'm guessing MJ was enemy #1 for him. He probably had a bullseye with MJ's face on it. He probably studied MJ like an enemy studies his opponent. So I guess I could understand why he refused to give credit to a player he hates.

[Roundball_Rock]

Did MJ copyright those moves? If not, no one is obligated to credit him. People copy players all the time. Kobe is hardly the only player to copy MJ.

[catch24]

Roundball, we all know you have Kobe's face tatted on your belly, it's cool dude...you can leave this thread now.

[BallersTalk]

Did MJ copyright those moves?
Yes.

[Roundball_Rock]

Roundball, we all know you have Kobe's face tatted on your belly, it's cool dude...you can leave this thread now.

How can so many MJ fans be so dense? I am a Kobe fan simply because I've been a Pippen fan for 15 years? Do Kobe fans:

1) Watch/listen to every Bulls game? Maybe if you guys were Bulls fans, not MJ fans, you would post in Bulls game threads once in a while and figure this out.

2) Watch/listen to every Suns game (because of Stoudemire, my favorite current player)? The Suns are the Lakers' rivals. Hey geniuses: when the Lakers and Suns played I was in the thread rooting for the Suns. When Laker fans talked trash after the game and were PWN3D by fate the very next night I was one of the people rubbing it in their face. This sounds like a Kobe fan?

3) Revere/like Shaq and consider him top-three all-time? The last time I checked, Kobe fans hate Shaq.

4) I obviously watched Pippen's career. Why was I watching Pippen before anyone even know who Kobe was? So I could fake being a Pippen fan on a site no one heard of (probably didn't even exist then) for a player no one had heard of and had no connection whatsoever to MJ?

5) I am a fan of the Philadalphia Eagles. I like and will miss AI. I rooted for the Phillies. I live on the other side of the country.

6) I rate Duncan very highly and think he may be top-five all-time. Use some sense. Duncan is the player most commonly placed ahead of Kobe in all-time rankings. If I have a top secret agenda to elevate Kobe I would go after Duncan since he is the logical next target.

7) I was PRO-MJ when I joined this site. My first or second thread ever was a pro-MJ thread. Did I post that to pump fake you guys down the road? Get real. It is MJ fanatics who turned me against MJ. MJ is god, MJ is responsible for everything good that happened within a 500 mile radius of him, MJ was perfect, MJ did everything better than every other player, Pippen was a run-of-the-mill all-star who would be nothing without MJ, no other legend even has a case over MJ, etc.

8) I think Kobe is the THIRD best player in the NBA. How many Kobe fans think both Lebron and Wade>Kobe?

9) Regarding Fatal? Are you people serious? We have completely different styles. Yeah, we agree on some things but we disagree on others. Just because we agree on Pippen and Jordan means we are the same person?

Yet because I was/am a Pippen fan--god forbid someone like the Bulls and not jump on the MJ bandwagon (which is why so many MJ fans are now Lebron "fans" )--and think MJ gets too much credit for the 90's Bulls I am a Kobe fan? What moronic logic is that? Kobe will never be as good as Kobe even if he wins 10 championships. I've always said this--both on this board and in PM's. Ask Heliege what I think of MJ vs. Kobe.

Lastly, how idiotic is the notion that someone would have a top secret Kobe agenda? What? I am waiting "until" he wins a 6th ring so I can post my "kobe is GOAT" threads I've been saving up? Get real. There is no point in doing that. If one wanted to elevate Kobe, if someone thought Kobe>MJ (there are maybe 5 people on this board who think that when you exclude gimmicks like "BlackMamba24") they simply would say so openly. Why the need for secrecy? This is a ****ing basketball forum, not a CIA operation.

[Younggrease]

Exactly. MJ gave credit where it was due even though I don't see ANY David Thompson in his game at all.

how old are you? there are very few full games of prime David Thompson out there and if your old enough to have watched and absorbed its sad that you would act so immature.

[BallersTalk]

How can so many MJ fans be so dense? I am a Kobe fan simply because I've been a Pippen fan for 15 years? Do Kobe fans:

1) Watch/listen to every Bulls game? Maybe if you guys were Bulls fans, not MJ fans, you would post in Bulls game threads once in a while and figure this out.

2) Watch/listen to every Suns game (because of Stoudemire, my favorite current player)? The Suns are the Lakers' rivals. Hey geniuses: when the Lakers and Suns played I was in the thread rooting for the Suns. When Laker fans talked trash after the game and were PWN3D by fate the very next night I was one of the people rubbing it in their face. This sounds like a Kobe fan?

3) Revere/like Shaq and consider him top-three all-time? The last time I checked, Kobe fans hate Shaq.

4) I obviously watched Pippen's career. Why was I watching Pippen before anyone even know who Kobe was? So I could fake being a Pippen fan on a site no one heard of (probably didn't even exist then) for a player no one had heard of and had no connection whatsoever to MJ?

5) I am a fan of the Philadalphia Eagles. I like and will miss AI. I rooted for the Phillies. I live on the other side of the country.

6) I rate Duncan very highly and think he may be top-five all-time. Use some sense. Duncan is the player most commonly placed ahead of Kobe in all-time rankings. If I have a top secret agenda to elevate Kobe I would go after Duncan since he is the logical next target.

7) I was PRO-MJ when I joined this site. My first or second thread ever was a pro-MJ thread. Did I post that to pump fake you guys down the road? Get real. It is MJ fanatics who turned me against MJ. MJ is god, MJ is responsible for everything good that happened within a 500 mile radius of him, MJ was perfect, MJ did everything better than every other player, Pippen was a run-of-the-mill all-star who would be nothing without MJ, no other legend even has a case over MJ, etc.

8) I think Kobe is the THIRD best player in the NBA. How many Kobe fans think both Lebron and Wade>Kobe?

9) Regarding Fatal? Are you people serious? We have completely different styles. Yeah, we agree on some things but we disagree on others. Just because we agree on Pippen and Jordan means we are the same person?

Yet because I was/am a Pippen fan--god forbid someone like the Bulls and not jump on the MJ bandwagon (which is why so many MJ fans are now Lebron "fans" )--and think MJ gets too much credit for the 90's Bulls I am a Kobe fan? What moronic logic is that? Kobe will never be as good as Kobe even if he wins 10 championships. I've always said this--both on this board and in PM's. Ask Heliege what I think of MJ vs. Kobe.

Lastly, how idiotic is the notion that someone would have a top secret Kobe agenda? What, I am waiting "until" he wins a 6th ring so I can post my "kobe is GOAT" threads I've been saving up? Get real. There is no point in doing that. If one wanted to elevate Kobe, if someone thought Kobe>MJ (there are maybe 5 people on this board who think that when you exclude gimmicks like "BlackMamba24") they simply would say so openly. Why the need for secrecy? This is a ****ing basketball forum, not a CIA operation.
You don't get it. Fatal doesn't believe anything about any player but Kobe. He'll simply agree with you if you're propping up a teammate of Jordan's (to make Kobe look closer in the rankings)

[BallersTalk]

how old are you? there are very few full games of prime David Thompson out there and if your old enough to have watched and absorbed its sad that you would act so immature.
Believe it or not there are actually full games available of David Thompson. And we don't even need the full games. You can tell in the highlights alone who Kobe copied. And it's a shame you still refuse to admit it.

[catch24]

How can so many MJ fans be so dense? I am a Kobe fan simply because I've been a Pippen fan for 15 years? Do Kobe fans

Damn, struck a nerve? :oldlol:

I'm a Kobe fan first and foremost. Your logic and purpose is to over sensationalize anything not Jordan.

[oh the horror]

Isnt it silly to sit there and try to believe that no one else emulates players they watched? These players arent just athletes, but also fans of the games.


Jordan spoke of how he modeled his game after some players as well.


Im sure everyone else, has done similar things.



Basically some of you are just trying to cut down one specific player for doing what everyone else does, because you dont like the player himself.

And I dont even understand what making the point is supposed to accomplish anyway?

[Scribbles]

BS. Point to ONE MJ move that was an exact copy of someone else's move.

Lay-up, dunk, pass.

[Roundball_Rock]

You don't get it. Fatal doesn't believe anything about any player but Kobe. He'll simply agree with you if you're propping up a teammate of Jordan's (to make Kobe look closer in the rankings)

So what if he is a Kobe fan? You guys act as if he commits felonies on this board.

Kobe is never ranked higher than 9th. Can you name one person who has Kobe within 5 spots of MJ on their list???? What would be the point of moving MJ down to, say, 3rd? Kobe is still 9th-12th.


Damn, struck a nerve?

I'm a Kobe fan first and foremost. Your logic and purpose is to over sensationalize anything not Jordan.

I copy and pasted it from another thread. No, my purpose is to diminish MJ so he goes from #1 to #3 on most lists so Kobe can move up from #10 to #10!

Yes, I am propping up AI because he crossed MJ over once! How did you figure it out? :eek:

[catch24]

Isnt it silly to sit there and try to believe that no one else emulates players they watched? These players arent just athletes, but also fans of the games.


Jordan spoke of how he modeled his game after some players as well.


Im sure everyone else, has done similar things.



Basically some of you are just trying to cut down one specific player for doing what everyone else does, because you dont like the player himself.

And I dont even understand what making the point is supposed to accomplish anyway?

It's not that anyone is annoyed of "copying" his moves. It's the fact he's refused to give props or knowledge the fact he blatantly emulated Jordan (I won't get into the stuff outside of his actual play - the talking, his persona etc). When he entered the league, he simply put: I hated watching Michael Jordan growing up, Magic Johnson was his favorite player...

[catch24]

So what if he is a Kobe fan? You guys act as if he commits felonies on this board.

Kobe is never ranked higher than 9th. Can you name one person who has Kobe within 5 spots of MJ on their list???? What would be the point of moving MJ down to, say, 3rd? Kobe is still 9th-12th.



I copy and pasted it from another thread. No, my purpose is to diminish MJ so he goes from #1 to #3 on most lists so Kobe can move up from #10 to #10!

Yes, I am propping up AI because he crossed MJ over once! How did you figure it out? :eek:

No you just discredit numerous legends in the process of your useless post and purposely take 1a/1b, second fiddles, and "team wins" out of context. Like I said, all too undermine MJ. I guess the question is, are you a Kobe homer, Pippen's B!tch or just simply a hater of the best guard of all time? Pick your poison.

[TheLogo]

I find it funny that you guys say that players steal moves from another.

The game of basketball have been played for over 40 years now, there are going to be shots that look like players of the past.

What do you want Kobe and others of this generation to do....back flip hook shots? Front flip double somersault fade away?

What's next?....Kobe can't chew gum? He ties his shoe like MJ? Wears Nike?

[KenneBell]

When he entered the league, he simply put: I hated watching Michael Jordan growing up, Magic Johnson was his favorite player...
I'd be surprised if you could find the former. I've heard the latter before though.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Wait, wait - Younggrease is arguing that Kobe never imitated Jordan's moves? There are many, MANY moves that ONLY one other player in history has done, and Kobe has done them too. A few examples:

1) The double inside pivot in the post. Kobe started using this last season for the first time to great effect; it was a staple of MJ's game as early as 1990.

2) The half-hitch fake fadeaway into a drive while posting up. Sorta spins, looks like he's taking a shot with a slight hitch, and goes right into the drive as the defender straightens up to challenge what they think is a shot.

3) Lead-foot-cross jab steps and retractions, and driving off of them. That is, bringing your pivot foot across the defender's body to his opposite side while facing up, and doing so deliberately slowly; then, bringing it back and doing so again, and eventually driving off that foot once it's planted again.


There are others. And there are also mannerisms, such as:

1) Slapping his hands together on backwards/blind shots. Only MJ and Kobe have done this. Wade has since done it (the only thing he's copied from MJ, as opposed to Kobe, who copied virtually everything), but Kobe was doing it back in 2001-2003.

2) Hopping slightly on one leg with the other leg extended as you hold the gooseneck on the follow through after a shot, sometimes with a slight spin. Again, ONLY Kobe and Jordan have done this.

3) The fist pump after hitting a big shot.

4) Sticking his tongue out on drives, which he did for about 2 years circa 2003-2005 but doesn't do anymore.

5) Bending down to knock on the hardwood after hitting a big shot like a game-winner.


I can go on...

[oh the horror]

It's not that anyone is annoyed of "copying" his moves. It's the fact he's refused to give props or knowledge the fact he blatantly emulated Jordan (I won't get into the stuff outside of his actual play - the talking, his persona etc). When he entered the league, he simply put: I hated watching Michael Jordan growing up, Magic Johnson was his favorite player...


But why does he HAVE TO? Someone's "moves" arent a copyrighted product. No one owes anything to anyone. Kobe Bryant has his own career, as did Mike.

Kobe worked his way to where he is...Mike didnt do it for him.

[purple32gold]

But why does he HAVE TO? Someone's "moves" arent a copyrighted product. No one owes anything to anyone. Kobe Bryant has his own career, as did Mike.

Kobe worked his way to where he is...Mike didnt do it for him.
the thing that pisses me off is that you're right and no one will read this. they'll skip over it and continue arguing about something that cannot be argued.

[Roundball_Rock]

No you just discredit numerous legends in the process of your useless post and purposely take 1a/1b, second fiddles, and "team wins" out of context. Like I said, all too undermine MJ. I guess the question is, are you a Kobe homer, Pippen's B!tch or just simply a hater of the best guard of all time? Pick your poison.

If you are going to make a claim like that, back it up. What legends have I "discredited"?

:oldlol: @ MJ fanatics. This is a discussion forum. People have various opinions. It is not a crime to not worship MJ.


Someone's "moves" arent a copyrighted product. No one owes anything to anyone. Kobe Bryant has his own career, as did Mike.

I have never seen such fanaticism from any fan group. They believe he has copyrighted moves and tongues, anyone questioning or--god forbid!!!--criticizing him--is doing something evil.

[catch24]

I'd be surprised if you could find the former. I've heard the latter before though.

Beyond the Glory 2001-2002 Kobe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_ej03dgd4

1:18

[catch24]

If you are going to make a claim like that, back it up. What legends have I "discredited"?

:oldlol: @ MJ fanatics. This is a discussion forum. People have various opinions. It is not a crime to not worship MJ.

I don't have to back anything up. Your legendary posts from the previous thread should be enough. Far from an MJ fanatic. :oldlol:

Try again.

[TheLogo]

You guys are really taking this too seriously.

Let's say I study MJ to a T. I try doing it in a game but it doesn't work. If copying MJ equals success then why isn't every player doing it?

[catch24]

But why does he HAVE TO? Someone's "moves" arent a copyrighted product. No one owes anything to anyone. Kobe Bryant has his own career, as did Mike.

Kobe worked his way to where he is...Mike didnt do it for him.

Because it's paying respect. Imagine if someone acted/emulated you while doing what you did/do best. Awkward, or just playing disrespectful without giving you "kudos" IMO.

[Roundball_Rock]

I don't have to back anything up. Your legendary posts from the previous thread should be enough.

If you are going to slander have the guts to back it up.


Because it's paying respect. Imagine if someone acted/emulated you while doing what you did/do best. Awkward, or just playing disrespectful without giving you "kudos" IMO.

Respect? 5 minutes after slandering someone dishonestly. :roll:

[catch24]

If you are going to slander have the guts to back it up.

Rofl @ this clown. Your Pippen threads speak for themselves.


Respect? 5 minutes after slandering someone dishonestly. :roll:

Yes, because I'm supposed to pay respect to some troll over the internet? Listen peon, I know you're addicted to me, but there are other threads with Kobe/Pippen you can attend to. Scram child.

[Younggrease]

Wait, wait - Younggrease is arguing that Kobe never imitated Jordan's moves? There are many, MANY moves that ONLY one other player in history has done, and Kobe has done them too. A few examples:

1) The double inside pivot in the post. Kobe started using this last season for the first time to great effect; it was a staple of MJ's game as early as 1990.

2) The half-hitch fake fadeaway into a drive while posting up. Sorta spins, looks like he's taking a shot with a slight hitch, and goes right into the drive as the defender straightens up to challenge what they think is a shot.

3) Lead-foot-cross jab steps and retractions, and driving off of them. That is, bringing your pivot foot across the defender's body to his opposite side while facing up, and doing so deliberately slowly; then, bringing it back and doing so again, and eventually driving off that foot once it's planted again.




I can go on...

both Wade and Lebron do this...they just arent as good at it. I have Joe Johnson and Jason Richardson do this as well.

And there are a reason why maybe only jordan has done the post move your talking about(i dont know which one based on your post) How many post players in the history of the NBA have level of skill(especially in the post) Kobe has besides MJ. Of those people how many have the body control/athletism as MJ.

And lets not pretend we have in depth footage of every nba player that has ever played the game.

And the fadeaway is a fakeshot, which is a natural counter to someone who has developed a fadeaway as deadly as Kobe's. Its not MJ's move, its the counter to when someone has overplayed your fadeaway. I have also seen Lebron try this but it looks awkward because he doesnt understand the time and place to use it or the mechanics behind it. The same with other jab step move discussed. Its says a lot when the MVP of the league is not skilled enough to pull off the moves that Kobe does and he still tries. Maybe it takes a ton of skill to them and only Kobe and MJ and a few others(Bird) have that skill level and of them maybe Kobe has the requisite athletism to pull them off.

[Roundball_Rock]

Rofl @ this clown. Your Pippen threads speak for themselves.


Name one legend I've "discredited" to make MJ look bad. Again, if you are going to slander--which qualifies as harassment--you need to back it up. Of course, that requires forming an argument...

[Raider007]

Kobe and Jordan played against eachother eight times.
Kobe & company have beat Jordan and company 5-3

Fg%
Kobe 466% Jordan 436%
3pt%
Kobe 552% Jordan 300%

Now, if we are talking about Kobe copying Mike,

Could we now say that Kobe "did it better"? :rockon:

[catch24]

Name one legend I've "discredited" to make MJ look bad. Again, if you are going to slander--which qualifies as harassment--you need to back it up. Of course, that requires forming an argument...

Again troll, I don't need to "backup" anything when the proof is in the puddin'. The threads speak for themselves, just ask Abe. I'm not going to post back and forth with someone who finds thrills having text battles.

[catch24]

Kobe and Jordan played against eachother eight times.
Kobe & company have beat Jordan and company 5-3

Fg%
Kobe 466% Jordan 436%
3pt%
Kobe 552% Jordan 300%

Now, if we are talking about Kobe copying Mike,

Could we now say that Kobe "did it better"? :rockon:

Wow.

[chazzy]

But wouldn't you be annoyed if those players denied trying to be like Jordan when it's so clear? Kobe denied it for years early in his career. He went as far as to say he hated MJ growing up. Then finally, with almost a disgusted look on his face, he unwillingly admitted MJ was the greatest. You could probably find that interview on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awoqiCFWjGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBh3jf4mOOk

So unwilling, pure disgust all over his face.

[KenneBell]

Beyond the Glory 2001-2002 Kobe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_ej03dgd4

1:18
Didn't hear anything about hate. He said he didn't like Mike when he was a kid. I mean he was what, 10-15 years old when MJ started really dominating the league and the Lakers started going on the downswing? I could see him not liking him because of that, especially when the Bulls won in '91.

Nowhere did he say that he didn't change his mind, which he obviously did. He probably changed when he began to play basketball at a higher level and had to appreciate what these guys were doing. ;)

[Jacks3]

:oldlol: at this thread.

[Allstar24]

It's not the moves in particular. It's HOW he did them. His style, his mechanics. Kobe straight copied them. No question about that. Stop with your BS. How can there be so many Kobe trolls all on the same site? I shoulda went on a killing spree on you punks when I visited LA.
So this is the post that got BallersTalk banned? :roll: At least something good came out of this useless topic, there's one less idiot on this board.

[chazzy]

:applause: Banned again. Now let's delete this thread, straight up poison on this board.

[catch24]

Didn't hear anything about hate. He said he didn't like Mike when he was a kid. I mean he was what, 10-15 years old when MJ started really dominating the league and the Lakers started going on the downswing? I could see him not liking him because of that, especially when the Bulls won in '91.

Nowhere did he say that he didn't change his mind, which he obviously did. He probably changed when he began to play basketball at a higher level and had to appreciate what these guys were doing. ;)

Yeah, for the most part (of late that is) Kobe has really strayed away from the comparisons but at the same time acknowledged Jordan "as the best", and was somewhat of an influence on his game. He didn't say "hate" here, that was my bad (though I'm almost positive he did in an other interview when he was younger). What I think happened was even though he "disliked" him, KB still admired and understood Mike was the best in the game so he had no second thoughts/problem incorporating his moves into his.

[KenneBell]

So this is the post that got BallersTalk banned? :roll: At least something good came out of this useless topic, there's one less idiot on this board.
He'll be back. And he won't be hard to find either.

[catch24]

I agreed with Ballerstalk, but the hate and racism he displayed was immature. That ban was probably warranted.

[KenneBell]

What I think happened was even though he "disliked" him, KB still admired and understood Mike was the best in the game so he had no second thoughts/problem incorporating his moves into his.
Bingo. It's just like anything. You don't gain an appreciation for something or someone until you try to do what they do at a high level. I think Kobe found that his skills matched MJ more than Magic and went that way.

But like Phil said, slowly but surely, he's gone more out into his own game. Still MJ-inspired but his game nonetheless.

[Scribbles]

OldSchoolBBall's Complete How-to Guide on Playing Like His Idol, Kobe Bryant:



Chapter 8: Kobe in the Post
1) The double inside pivot in the post. Kobe started using this last season for the first time to great effect; it was a staple of MJ's game as early as 1990.

2) The half-hitch fake fadeaway into a drive while posting up. Sorta spins, looks like he's taking a shot with a slight hitch, and goes right into the drive as the defender straightens up to challenge what they think is a shot.

3) Lead-foot-cross jab steps and retractions, and driving off of them. That is, bringing your pivot foot across the defender's body to his opposite side while facing up, and doing so deliberately slowly; then, bringing it back and doing so again, and eventually driving off that foot once it's planted again.





Chapter 24: Kobe's Mannerisms
1) Slapping his hands together on backwards/blind shots. Only MJ and Kobe have done this. Wade has since done it (the only thing he's copied from MJ, as opposed to Kobe, who copied virtually everything), but Kobe was doing it back in 2001-2003.

2) Hopping slightly on one leg with the other leg extended as you hold the gooseneck on the follow through after a shot, sometimes with a slight spin. Again, ONLY Kobe and Jordan have done this.

3) The fist pump after hitting a big shot.

4) Sticking his tongue out on drives, which he did for about 2 years circa 2003-2005 but doesn't do anymore.

5) Bending down to knock on the hardwood after hitting a big shot like a game-winner.

Source:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3707714&postcount=123

[hitmanyr2k]

I always looked at Jordan and Kobe in a Bruce Lee / Bruce Li sort of way.

Bruce Lee was the legend that transcended the martial arts world much like Jordan transcended the NBA and when Bruce died you suddenly had Bruce Li, Bruce Le, Dragon Lee and all of these cats coming out of the woodwork. They could all imitate Bruce's moves and his mannerisms but ultimately were 2nd rate imitations. Kobe struck me that way in his early years. It wasn't just his game it was his mannerisms as well. It was like he was trying to be someone else. I wondered if he truly had a personality of his own. I thought last year he was making strides towards finding his own identity as he gets older...until he won a championship and jumped in the air with the Jordan-like kick of the legs and swinging his arms :oldlol: I was like cmon man...why did you have to do that?

[cotdt]

Here Phil Jackson compares Kobe and Jordan in some detail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s&feature=player_embedded

[Raider007]

I always looked at Jordan and Kobe in a Bruce Lee / Bruce Li sort of way.

Bruce Lee was the legend that transcended the martial arts world much like Jordan transcended the NBA and when Bruce died you suddenly had Bruce Li, Bruce Le, Dragon Lee and all of these cats coming out of the woodwork. They could all imitate Bruce's moves and his mannerisms but ultimately were 2nd rate imitations. Kobe struck me that way in his early years. It wasn't just his game it was his mannerisms as well. It was like he was trying to be someone else. I wondered if he truly had a personality of his own. I thought last year he was making strides towards finding his own identity as he gets older...until he won a championship and jumped in the air with the Jordan-like kick of the legs and swinging his arms :oldlol: I was like cmon man...why did you have to do that?

Soccer players do that allot too.
Seems everyone is copying Mike!


http://thm-a03.yimg.com/image/a76bec73c6caa6e6

[Jacks3]

:roll:

[hitmanyr2k]

Soccer players do that allot too.
Seems everyone is copying Mike!


http://thm-a03.yimg.com/image/a76bec73c6caa6e6

I don't watch soccer :confusedshrug: It's irrelevant to me.

[Roundball_Rock]

Here Phil Jackson compares Kobe and Jordan in some detail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s&feature=player_embedded

Jackson is just trolling to diminish MJ. :mad:

[lbj23clutch]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3263/2448558472_d00dc7d48c.jpg

[lbj23clutch]

Name one legend I've "discredited" to make MJ look bad. Again, if you are going to slander--which qualifies as harassment--you need to back it up. Of course, that requires forming an argument...
GTFO Fatal JR. Don't kid yourself, everyone know's your agenda.

[Roundball_Rock]

GTFO Fatal JR. Don't kid yourself, everyone know's your agenda.

Yes: the agenda is to downgrade MJ from #1 all-time to #3 all-time so Kobe can move up from #10 to #10! MJ fans are geniuses with their conspiracy theories. :D

[Derek Fisher]

It is up.

And I'm pretty confident that you talk about Kobe more than almost anyone in here.
You got a creepy online stalker following your every movement. :oldlol:

[cteach111]

IMO, its clear Kobe was heavily influenced by MJ (his moves, mannerisms, etc.). I found it annoying a while ago, but I appreciate him as a player a ton more now that the spotlight isn't on him 24/7 and he's displaying more of his own game & personality. He also dropped a lot of the annoying MJ mannerisms and imitations.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

i dont pay much attention to this kind of stuff. kobe has his own legacy and knows jordan is the greatest of all time.

[Cermet]

Hey guys Kobey has HIS ONE AND ONLY move that he didnt borrow from anyone IN THE NBA. Its rape. Why didnt anyone remember this so effective move of his.

Oh and dont forget his well known

RAPE LOOK TM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5cw7Kl0kucs/Si_Rt9ptkUI/AAAAAAAABXw/6dbsgeAZ0As/s400/kobes_rape_face.jpg

[cotdt]

Hey guys Kobey has HIS ONE AND ONLY move that he didnt borrow from anyone IN THE NBA. It rape. Why didnt anyone this so effective move of his.

Oh and dont forget the his

RAPE LOOK TM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5cw7Kl0kucs/Si_Rt9ptkUI/AAAAAAAABXw/6dbsgeAZ0As/s400/kobes_rape_face.jpg

Nice try, but Carmelo has been using it too starting this season.

[Cermet]

Nice try, but Carmelo has been using it too starting this season.

If i were carmelo i would REALY be carefull about that.

Could you show me picture of Carmello when he does that?

[cotdt]

If i were carmelo i would REALY be carefull about that.

Could you show me picture of Carmello when he does that?

Ever since Kobe started doing it...

http://sportspolymath.typepad.com/.a/6a01156efbfa9e970c0115705fb5da970b-800wi

http://www.interbasket.net/news/wp-content/gallery/interbasket/carmelo-anthony-or-jamie-foxx-wanda-living-color.jpg

http://blog.ticketchest.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/nba_a_garnett_gordon.jpg

http://binside.typepad.com/binside_tv/images/2008/03/22/lebron_vogue.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/177/478430382_60a001d785.jpg

[ashar008]

I dont get why people hate kobe for copying Jordan? Especially hardcore Jordan fans. If you were really a fan of Jordan wouldn't you be proud to see someone carry on Jordan's legacy by using his moves. For the Jordan fans its like watching Jordan all over again, although it might not be perfect. If anyone can copy Jordan its Kobe.

[oh the horror]

Hey guys Kobey has HIS ONE AND ONLY move that he didnt borrow from anyone IN THE NBA. Its rape. Why didnt anyone remember this so effective move of his.

Oh and dont forget his well known

RAPE LOOK TM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5cw7Kl0kucs/Si_Rt9ptkUI/AAAAAAAABXw/6dbsgeAZ0As/s400/kobes_rape_face.jpg


We get it bro. You're trying to say outrageous things to get people riled up.


The only thing is, that happened years ago, and everyone here has a short attention span. Live for today buddy.

[ashar008]

Hey guys Kobey has HIS ONE AND ONLY move that he didnt borrow from anyone IN THE NBA. Its rape. Why didnt anyone remember this so effective move of his.

Oh and dont forget his well known

RAPE LOOK TM



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5cw7Kl0kucs/Si_Rt9ptkUI/AAAAAAAABXw/6dbsgeAZ0As/s400/kobes_rape_face.jpg

ah yes the ol' rape joke

[TryToBeUnbias]

thread should just end now

[Cermet]

Ever since Kobe started doing it...

http://sportspolymath.typepad.com/.a/6a01156efbfa9e970c0115705fb5da970b-800wi

http://www.interbasket.net/news/wp-content/gallery/interbasket/carmelo-anthony-or-jamie-foxx-wanda-living-color.jpg

http://blog.ticketchest.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/nba_a_garnett_gordon.jpg

http://binside.typepad.com/binside_tv/images/2008/03/22/lebron_vogue.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/177/478430382_60a001d785.jpg

First Mello pic. Pretty good rape expresion ofcourse not as good as original but still. The second is a little bit more" WTF IM A HORSE"
The garnet pic is more like Snake " Im going to bite your neck and poison you"
Lebron "IM A STEROID JUNKIEEEEEEEE"
S.Nash " I am psicho maniac Im going to cut all of your throats!"

[Nevaeh]

You guys are really taking this too seriously.

Let's say I study MJ to a T. I try doing it in a game but it doesn't work. If copying MJ equals success then why isn't every player doing it?

Because most players have enough self respect to not try and emulate a legend who's already carved his own niche in the league. A few former and current players with their own style, or trademarks; Magic, Bird, Zeke, Shaq, Iverson, Duncan, Stockton, Rodman, LBJ.

What do all of these players have in common? NONE of them have been accused of Biting off MJ's swag like a dog in heat. Only ONE player in the history of the league has EVER been accused of doing that to another player. Wow, what a dumb way to **** up your entire legacy if you want to be remembered.

[Knine]

U people are all STUPID. U fake asses dont even know about "WANNA BE LIKE MIKE" You're getting on Kobe's case about emulating Jordan? Anybody who's on his case about it doesnt know about "WANNA BE LIKE MIKE" and that ANY BALLer on this planet who's got the love for the game will emulate him. STUPIDS!

[Laker Logic]

Every once in a while I log back onto this site and am reminded why I stopped posting.

The sheer amount of ignorant nonsense is enough to give any sane person a nosebleed.

Here's self-appointed "basketball authority" OldSchool BBall, who started watching basketball because of Jordan and therefore thinks he invented the game;


There are many, MANY moves that ONLY one other player in history has done, and Kobe has done them too. A few examples:

1) The double inside pivot in the post. Kobe started using this last season for the first time to great effect; it was a staple of MJ's game as early as 1990.

ORLY?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlSZC4TAYVc

Not sure if that will post correctly, but if not, it's ISH's very own Kblaze's video of "post move messiah" Kevin McHale. In the first minute there are multiple clips of McHale doing the exact move OldSchool claims ONLY one other player than Jordan has ever done, and frankly doing more variations of it (like changing direction on the second pivot to bring himself behind the defender instead of just past him) than I recall either Jordan or Kobe doing.

So we see that with his very first example, OldSchool has NO IDEA what he's talking about, but is such a blind homer and narrowminded "fan of the game" that he thinks it's safe to assume because Jordan did something, he must be the originator and creator of it.

Mind you, he didn't just say that Kobe copied Jordan, but that they are the ONLY two players since Naismith to use the move. This is important, because I wouldn't put it past OldSchool to have the gall to try to claim McHale bit Jordan too. But that can't even be possible...remember ONLY Jordan and Kobe have ever thought to to this particular move.

Idiot.

I won't even bother to try to find footage of other "patented" moves that Jordan graced the game with, according to the legions of you who never watched anyone before him...it's an insult to the game that people don't have the common sense and respect to do 15 seconds of research before making wild and unsubstantiated claims.

Please OldSchool, post again and explain your idiocy to the board. Claim that that isn't the move you were describing. Say you forgot McHale did it. Say Jordan did it with a certain....flair that gave you tingles the way no other player did. Or better yet, just stop posting, and learn the game.

/thread

[purple8gold]

seriously, kobe has no moves of his own. sometimes he bounces the ball off of the floor so it hits his hand, then bounces it continuously up the court. blatant thievery from the way john stockton would bounce the ball. and those times where he jumps into the air and throws the ball toward the basket and it goes in? wow, trying way too hard to be like pete maravich. he's pathetic.

:roll:

So true, funny how it seems.

[L.A. Jazz]

it cant be wrong dribbling the ball like on of the greatest PGs.

[indiefan23]

But, but, but if we don't down Kobe for copying MJ what else can we criticize him for? You gotta leave something for his haters to talk about, he already has proved he can win without Shaq.

Has the argument 'ever' really been that Kobe could not win without Shaq? Really? Anyone can win without another player when they are on a massively stacked team in which other players have more win shares then you do. Pippen could have won without Jordan if he was on a stacked up team.

I think the real argument is that Kobe's first 3 titles came on Shaq's coat tails when Shaq dominated an era dominated by big men. Kobe needed Shaq for his rings then. That argument is not changed 'at all' because he won on a super stacked team 8 years later after the NBA totally changed the rules to favor guards.

Titles are hands down the dumbest way of ranking players you can come up with. If I want to hate on Kobe, its much more effective to point out his volume shooting causing his teams to tank after Shaq left, or him giving up on his team/refusing to shoot/hogging shots in finals games to sulk and lose a ring.

[Laker Logic]

Every once in a while I log back onto this site and am reminded why I stopped posting.

The sheer amount of ignorant nonsense is enough to give any sane person a nosebleed.

Here's self-appointed "basketball authority" OldSchool BBall, who started watching basketball because of Jordan and therefore thinks he invented the game;



ORLY?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlSZC4TAYVc

Not sure if that will post correctly, but if not, it's ISH's very own Kblaze's video of "post move messiah" Kevin McHale. In the first minute there are multiple clips of McHale doing the exact move OldSchool claims ONLY one other player than Jordan has ever done, and frankly doing more variations of it (like changing direction on the second pivot to bring himself behind the defender instead of just past him) than I recall either Jordan or Kobe doing.

So we see that with his very first example, OldSchool has NO IDEA what he's talking about, but is such a blind homer and narrowminded "fan of the game" that he thinks it's safe to assume because Jordan did something, he must be the originator and creator of it.

Mind you, he didn't just say that Kobe copied Jordan, but that they are the ONLY two players since Naismith to use the move. This is important, because I wouldn't put it past OldSchool to have the gall to try to claim McHale bit Jordan too. But that can't even be possible...remember ONLY Jordan and Kobe have ever thought to to this particular move.

Idiot.

I won't even bother to try to find footage of other "patented" moves that Jordan graced the game with, according to the legions of you who never watched anyone before him...it's an insult to the game that people don't have the common sense and respect to do 15 seconds of research before making wild and unsubstantiated claims.

Please OldSchool, post again and explain your idiocy to the board. Claim that that isn't the move you were describing. Say you forgot McHale did it. Say Jordan did it with a certain....flair that gave you tingles the way no other player did. Or better yet, just stop posting, and learn the game.

/thread


Will OldSchoolBBall explain how it is that (a) Kobe can ONLY have "stolen" the inside double-pivot from Jordan, because (b) before Kobe, Jordan is the ONLY player in the history of the game to use the move - when I've posted a link to a video of Mchale doing the exact same move, repeatedly?

The world awaits....

[Fatal9]

Great post Laker Logic. I didn't even see oldschoolbball's post in this thread.


2) The half-hitch fake fadeaway into a drive while posting up. Sorta spins, looks like he's taking a shot with a slight hitch, and goes right into the drive as the defender straightens up to challenge what they think is a shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3i9gt3UE0Q < kind of like Bird did here at 3:18 in the most famous game of his career? I would need an example of Jordan and Kobe doing it to make sure that's what you mean. That was actually a classic Bird move near the baseline, freed himself up for tons of drives this way.

So it seems to me, Jordan had been watching a lot of 80s Celtics footage when he decided to "invent" his post moves :lol

[steeph28]

Has the argument 'ever' really been that Kobe could not win without Shaq? Really? Anyone can win without another player when they are on a massively stacked team in which other players have more win shares then you do. Pippen could have won without Jordan if he was on a stacked up team.

I think the real argument is that Kobe's first 3 titles came on Shaq's coat tails when Shaq dominated an era dominated by big men. Kobe needed Shaq for his rings then. That argument is not changed 'at all' because he won on a super stacked team 8 years later after the NBA totally changed the rules to favor guards.

Titles are hands down the dumbest way of ranking players you can come up with. If I want to hate on Kobe, its much more effective to point out his volume shooting causing his teams to tank after Shaq left, or him giving up on his team/refusing to shoot/hogging shots in finals games to sulk and lose a ring.

http://actingschmacting.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/broken-record.jpg

[Disaprine]

people are still putting kobe vs jordan threads? jesus

[CB4GOATPF]

Great post Laker Logic. I didn't even see oldschoolbball's post in this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3i9gt3UE0Q < kind of like Bird did here at 3:18 in the most famous game of his career? I would need an example of Jordan and Kobe doing it to make sure that's what you mean. That was actually a classic Bird move near the baseline, freed himself up for tons of drives this way.

So it seems to me, Jordan had been watching a lot of 80s Celtics footage when he decided to "invent" his post moves :lol

Jordan tried to emulate and learn alot of what Bird and Magic did (big mistake that is why Pippen had to be the game creator because it came more natural to him)...but its the norm.

We do have to admit that what Kobe does though is a bit more than emulate or be influenced by: He copies his voice tone, his face gestures, his body gestures...etc Its bit more exagerated than be influenced game wise.

[Fatal9]

...oldschool?

Anyways, I find it hilarious how this went from a bunch of single minded Jordan fans venting about Kobe "jacking moves", to Jordan himself getting exposed as someone who ripped them from the 80s Celtics frontline :oldlol:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Fatal9, no, that's not the hitch move in the post I'm referring to, though that's a move that only Bird and Jordan really did much. The move I'm referring to can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9BKx2HN8Ms (8:23; the hitch isn't as pronounced here, but it's clearly not a regular spin move)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOGpZD690iA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdmKXTUF4wE (first two plays, the first one more so)

As for Laker Logic, figures that he'd seize on the ONE move/mannerism I noted that someone had done before (and really, McHale isn't doing it exactly the way MJ did, but whatever). I posted a similar list on another board once and someone mentioned McHale and this move, so I did know better, but the overall argument (re: Kobe's move jacking) retains its force. Kobe wasn't copying that from McHale when he took like a dozen other moves/mannerisms from ONE other player, who happens to be one of two who've done that particular move.

[Shih508]

sarcasm detectors turned off today? all nba players borrow moves from each other what a stupid ****ing thing to argue about.


kobe even copies the way how MJ talk to media which is very stupid for any human being for doing that

[Shih508]

But, but, but if we don't down Kobe for copying MJ what else can we criticize him for? You gotta leave something for his haters to talk about, he already has proved he can win without Shaq.

but with another 3 decent big men

[Younggrease]

Fatal9, no, that's not the hitch move in the post I'm referring to, though that's a move that only Bird and Jordan really did much. The move I'm referring to can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9BKx2HN8Ms (8:23; the hitch isn't as pronounced here, but it's clearly not a regular spin move)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOGpZD690iA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdmKXTUF4wE (first two plays, the first one more so)

As for Laker Logic, figures that he'd seize on the ONE move/mannerism I noted that someone had done before (and really, McHale isn't doing it exactly the way MJ did, but whatever). I posted a similar list on another board once and someone mentioned McHale and this move, so I did know better, but the overall argument (re: Kobe's move jacking) retains its force. Kobe wasn't copying that from McHale when he took like a dozen other moves/mannerisms from ONE other player, who happens to be one of two who've done that particular move.

dude that is a text book post move, I have been doing that since I was 16. Im sure it was done before Jordan. Its a way to get better leverage to get by your man, its a little trick you pick up to make you move more effective. You cant jack stuff that is textbook.

I have seen Melo, Bonzi Wells, Bernard King, and a ton of other post players do that.

You guys are absurd...

[Shih508]

Jordan didnt make up moves...i think this just shows a lack of knowledge of basketball. The reason only Kobe is doing some of MJ more complex moves is b/c he is the only player with the combo of athletic talent and skill to pull them off. They are the same height and "Jordan's moves" are the same ones taught in camps etc. from the age of 5 and on. Its just that others cant do them with that kind of profiency and at that level.

u must be blinded by sucking too much of kobe's d1ck... kobe has medicore hop and soso athletecism comparing to alot of top SG in their primes

[Younggrease]

u must be blinded by sucking too much of kobe's d1ck... kobe has medicore hop and soso athletecism comparing to alot of top SG in their primes

I guess the conjunction "and" is beyong your comprehension.

[amfirst]

It's funny how these hypocrites think MJ created a lot of those moves that came before him.

[OldSchoolBBall]

dude that is a text book post move, I have been doing that since I was 16. Im sure it was done before Jordan. Its a way to get better leverage to get by your man, its a little trick you pick up to make you move more effective. You cant jack stuff that is textbook.

I have seen Melo, Bonzi Wells, Bernard King, and a ton of other post players do that.

You guys are absurd...

Show me a video of any of them doing it.

[Shih508]

You seem to have Kobe on your tongue everyday...What's your excuse?


Anyway, Im pretty sure Bryant watched Jordan when he was younger...And im pretty sure he knew MJ was the Greatest...He knew MJ had style...So he sticks his tongue out aswell, time for the earth to explode...:violin:

Jordan didn't really have fadeway move when Kobe was a kid, just admit it u are a kobe nughugger trying to defend ur idol any blinding way u can

[Younggrease]

Show me a video of any of them doing it.


I also forgot I have seen Ricky Pierce do it to. I guess I'll have to go through my collection of Ricky Pierce tapes to find it...

such a dumb argument. Jordan is one of the few people with that much available tape. Just b/c they arent there doesnt mean it didnt happen.

[Shih508]

Kobe sure did try though. Not his fault he has a white man's vertical and little girl hands.

:oldlol: :rockon:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan didn't really have fadeway move when Kobe was a kid, just admit it u are a kobe nughugger trying to defend ur idol any blinding way u can

Uhh, Jordan had the fadeaway as early as the '87 and '88 seasons. What are you talking about?

[Shih508]

kobe is just like another knock-off made in china who never admitted he's been copying other ppl's style

[Shih508]

Wait, wait - Younggrease is arguing that Kobe never imitated Jordan's moves? There are many, MANY moves that ONLY one other player in history has done, and Kobe has done them too. A few examples:

1) The double inside pivot in the post. Kobe started using this last season for the first time to great effect; it was a staple of MJ's game as early as 1990.

2) The half-hitch fake fadeaway into a drive while posting up. Sorta spins, looks like he's taking a shot with a slight hitch, and goes right into the drive as the defender straightens up to challenge what they think is a shot.

3) Lead-foot-cross jab steps and retractions, and driving off of them. That is, bringing your pivot foot across the defender's body to his opposite side while facing up, and doing so deliberately slowly; then, bringing it back and doing so again, and eventually driving off that foot once it's planted again.


There are others. And there are also mannerisms, such as:

1) Slapping his hands together on backwards/blind shots. Only MJ and Kobe have done this. Wade has since done it (the only thing he's copied from MJ, as opposed to Kobe, who copied virtually everything), but Kobe was doing it back in 2001-2003.

2) Hopping slightly on one leg with the other leg extended as you hold the gooseneck on the follow through after a shot, sometimes with a slight spin. Again, ONLY Kobe and Jordan have done this.

3) The fist pump after hitting a big shot.

4) Sticking his tongue out on drives, which he did for about 2 years circa 2003-2005 but doesn't do anymore.

5) Bending down to knock on the hardwood after hitting a big shot like a game-winner.


I can go on...


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[macpierce]

haha yeah sure there are similarities, but some of you fanboys are going mad, imagine if you actually put this much effort for something good opposed to blind hate lol

[Laker Logic]

As for Laker Logic, figures that he'd seize on the ONE move/mannerism I noted that someone had done before (and really, McHale isn't doing it exactly the way MJ did, but whatever). I posted a similar list on another board once and someone mentioned McHale and this move, so I did know better, but the overall argument (re: Kobe's move jacking) retains its force. Kobe wasn't copying that from McHale when he took like a dozen other moves/mannerisms from ONE other player, who happens to be one of two who've done that particular move.

You say I "seized on" the post double- pivot like there's some conspiracy...again, it was the FIRST example YOU gave of
moves you claim Jordan invented. Should I have started at the bottom and worked my way up? The conclusion would be the same - you have no idea what you're talking about.

And for the record, the McHale move is EXACTLY the move that you described, exactly the move that Jordan used, exactly the move that Kobe, Payton, Bonzi Wells and others have used. There may be minor differences in how they finish and how they move due to body style and relative athleticism, but the fundamental footwork of is identical. That you can't even acknowledge that shows how fundsmentally dishonest you are.

It's also telling that you admit to being called out for miscrediting Jordan with creating this same move in the past, on another board, and that you "knew better" but decided to make the exact same claim again.

And sorry, but it's not a victory for you to now amend your categorical statement about MJ being the ONLY player to do this by now saying he's "only one of two" to do it prior to Kobe. You've already shown a glaring lack of knowledge about non-Jordan specific basketball - why do you suppose anyone should take your word that it's only two, when one post ago it was ONLY Jordan?

As a matter of fact, here's a fact that you need to spend some time dwelling on. Jordan did all kinds of things on the court no one had seen before, but 98% of it would fall into the category of improvisational, one-off, in the air moves that not even he did routinely.

Jordan did NOT add "dozens" of moves to the basketball repertoire that he created and that became textbook. There is simply not an extensive "Jordan"
book of moves like the one we're debating that had never been seen before, for Kobe or anyone else to "bite."

There's a whole universe of moves out there, rarely attributable to one player. Any playground player picks up some, serious fans of the game may know more. Pro players obviously have an even larger body of knowledge to draw on, not just from playing with the best players on earth day in and day out, but also from their access to game film. Point is, there isn't a player you can name who can accurately be identified as THE definitive author of more than a move or two at best, and most of them are more responsible for popularizing or resurrecting a move than "creating" it (i.e. "Magic's" no-look pass or "Hardaway's" crossover. There absolutely is not a modern era player, Jordan included, who singlehandedly created the number of moves you attribute to him.

[gts]

Wait, wait - Younggrease is arguing that Kobe never imitated Jordan's moves? There are many, MANY moves that ONLY one other player in history has done, and Kobe has done them too. A few examples:


you go girl! mj did it all

don't forget to tell them this was all done after jordan invented the nike shoe and took down the peach basket and replaced it with a net he hand wove on the inner thigh of a rockette cheerleader while he reskinned baseballs out of a new age material called horsehide

[cruthikai352]

LMFAO at this thread. All you guys suck at basketball. True story

[juju151111]

i have to agree with the Kobe homers here. Mj got his moves from others and he improvised on them. I do think Kobe tries to have Mj mannerisms early in his career do and his celebrations are fromv MJ DVD.

[Knoe Itawl]

i have to agree with the Kobe homers here. Mj got his moves from others and he improvised on them. I do think Kobe tries to have Mj mannerisms early in his career do and his celebrations are fromv MJ DVD.

Kobe definitely studied Jordan's game the most and the most annoying thing is that his d@ckriders won't admit that he definitely tried to copy Jordan's mannerisms (something people from different walks of life, fans of different teams, from all over the WORLD noticed. But we're all just "haters" of poor widdle Kobe).

If he, and his ******gers would just admit the OBVIOUS, there would be a lot less animosity about the issue. People would still not respect Kobe for being a style jacking fake (ala, he's a "Thug Poet" :oldlol: ) but at least they'd get points for acknowledging it.

The only large group of people still denying it are the Kobe Homers. Wonder why? And how do they explain why even some (reasonable) Kobe fans admit it?

[Fatal9]

Fatal9, no, that's not the hitch move in the post I'm referring to, though that's a move that only Bird and Jordan really did much. The move I'm referring to can be seen here:
You can't be serious....

You really think Jordan is the only one to do that move? A slight jerk to freeze the defender and quick spin baseline? Before Jordan, King, Bird (when he had an angle) and even old Kareem have all done that. This is a standard move in the post, especially if you are quicker than the guy guarding you. They might not have done it as smoothly or spectacularly as MJ, but you have to be crazy to think Jordan invented it.

Jordan is as much of a "move jacker" as Kobe is. The fact that they have similar bodies and skills makes Kobe's "move jacking" easier to spot than say Jordan taking his moves from McHale, Bird and others (probably picked them up when Bird was schooling him year after year in the 80s). Like I said, the hate Kobe receives for copying mannerisms is perfectly legit, it's pretty weird actually, but this "move jacking" stuff is very hypocritical coming from Jordan fans.

[Roundball_Rock]

Who cares? Did MJ copyright his moves?


Anyways, I find it hilarious how this went from a bunch of single minded Jordan fans venting about Kobe "jacking moves", to Jordan himself getting exposed as someone who ripped them from the 80s Celtics frontline

:oldlol:

[Laker Logic]

Like I said, the hate Kobe receives for copying mannerisms is perfectly legit, it's pretty weird actually, but this "move jacking" stuff is very hypocritical coming from Jordan fans.


Agreed. The mannerism-jocking is a legit, but wildly overblown critique of Bryant. People still trying to crucify a 30 year old man for emulating an icon's "mannerisms" when he was 18 is just silly and pathetic...and evidence of how stunted some people are in their own growth...still living in 2000.

The fact that they've so quickly moved on from trying to prosecute Kobe for the felony of "move jacking" to being reduced to asking for the death penalty for misdemeanor "mannerism jacking" tells you all you need to know.

Remember when certain people cried "Kobe's a ******!"...right up until the prosecution dropped their case for lack of evidence...and then they took up the cry of "but he's a bad husband!!!" as if they were the same thing? Yeah, it's pretty much like that.

The moral of the story is - OldSchoolBBall should now be called "Old (as long as it's not pre-Jordan) School BBall," and doesn't know jack about the game outside of a single player, albeit an all time, arguable GOAT one. OldSchool jacked his bball knowledge from Jordan! Alert the authorities!

[juju151111]

Agreed. The mannerism-jocking is a legit, but wildly overblown critique of Bryant. People still trying to crucify a 30 year old man for emulating an icon's "mannerisms" when he was 18 is just silly and pathetic...and evidence of how stunted some people are in their own growth...still living in 2000.

The fact that they've so quickly moved on from trying to prosecute Kobe for the felony of "move jacking" to being reduced to asking for the death penalty for misdemeanor "mannerism jacking" tells you all you need to know.

Remember when certain people cried "Kobe's a ******!"...right up until the prosecution dropped their case for lack of evidence...and then they took up the cry of "but he's a bad husband!!!" as if they were the same thing? Yeah, it's pretty much like that.

The moral of the story is - OldSchoolBBall should now be called "Old (as long as it's not pre-Jordan) School BBall," and doesn't know jack about the game outside of a single player, albeit an all time, arguable GOAT one. OldSchool jacked his bball knowledge from Jordan! Alert the authorities!
??? 2000?? Kobe been celebrating like Mj all through the years. He taps the floor when he hits game winners and did Mj celbration in 09 when they won the chip. I don't care tho. In the start of his career, he tried to aviod the question, but know he telling the truth. He studied Mj and so i say who cares. Everyone took moves from others, but KB use to lie about it.

[Laker Logic]

??? 2000?? Kobe been celebrating like Mj all through the years. He taps the floor when he hits game winners and did Mj celbration in 09 when they won the chip. I don't care tho. In the start of his career, he tried to aviod the question, but know he telling the truth. He studied Mj and so i say who cares. Everyone took moves from others, but KB use to lie about it.


. <----- There is my point. You missed it.