Best european players in history

[Hyman]

Which would you say they are? Rank your top 5

1)Sabonis
2)Nowitzki
3)Gasol
4)Petrovic
5)Parker/Kukoc

[LJJ]

Manu>Kukoc

[visirale]

Manu>Kukoc
Argentina =/= Europe

[Pharcyde]

Manu>Kukoc
Europe > Argentina.

[LJJ]

Argentina =/= Europe

I am impressed by your vast topographical knowledge. Your point however?

Manu is Argentinian and Italian. Italy is in Europe, but I'm sure you knew. ;)

[Rekindled]

I am impressed by your vast topographical knowledge. Your point however?

Manu is Argentinian and Italian. Italy is in Europe, but I'm sure you knew. ;)

larry bird descent from Europe too, does that mean he is the best european player.

[LJJ]

larry bird descent from Europe too, does that mean he is the best european player.

If he was a European citizen he would be.

[globarticles]

manu = argentina dont be stupid brah

[artificial]

Manu does have italian citizenship. However he was born, raised in Argentina and plays for the Argentinian national team. His stint in Italy was short, and I don't think he qualifies as "european" player.


And I need confirmation, but I think Kobe also got his italian citizenship, right? If he did, I'm sure as hell he wouldn't qualify as and "european player".

[chains5000]

Spanoulis lol

[Showtime]

Manu>Kukoc
Peja, TP, Divac, Detlef, Siekaly > Kukoc

[Harison]

Which would you say they are? Rank your top 5

1)Sabonis
2)Nowitzki
3)Gasol
4)Petrovic
5)Parker/Kukoc
Sounds about right :applause:

*Waits for Lakas to post how some greek noobling is the GOAT, just we ignorant trolls and liars have no idea and should be banned* :roll:

[Grinder]

According to Lakas it'd probably be...

1. Galis
2. Spanoulis
3. Papaloukas

Lmao.

[HighFlyer23]

i think you have to put dirk as #1 ..

[Killuminati90]

1. Dirk
2. Petrovic
3. P.Gasol




Btw...ginobili is from argentina u stupid *****

[Brunch@Five]

Dirk is pretty easily #1. I'd love to hear an argument for anyone else who had a better career, international or NBA

[chitownsfinest]

Easily Dirk

[Brunch@Five]

Sabonis had a better carrer in europe. When he came in to nba he was quite old at that time and after a big injury and still did well. So when he was in his prime he was the best Center in europe. He was Super smart and was good probably at everything that center should do but also could shoot mid and 3pt range very well. Dirk had a far better career in the NBA but Sabonis had a far better career in europe.

Dirk played in Europe 1 year when he was 18 years old. Are you seriously suggesting that Dirk would not have absolutely dominated European basketball? He was averaging 30/10 in FIBA basketball against national teams.

[Cermet]

Dirk is pretty easily #1. I'd love to hear an argument for anyone else who had a better career, international or NBA

Sabonis had a better career in europe. Whe he came in to NBA he was quite old at that time and after a big injury and still did well. So when he was in his prime he was the best center in europe. He was very very smart probably the smartest center or basketball player ever. He was good at everything that a center should do and also could shot mid range and 3pt shots very well. Dirk had a far better career in the NBA but Sabonis had a better career in europe. If Sabonis would have been in the NBA in his prime who knows what would have happened. Sarunas Marciulionis and Sabonis were one the most influencial guys that opened a way from europe to nba.


Sorry double post.

[Brunch@Five]

Competition in the NBA is/was inarguably better than it was in Europe, and Dirk won an MVP award and made several All-NBA 1st teams. That's more impressive than dominating European basketball, which Dirk would undoubtedly have done too had he stayed in Europe.

[Cermet]

Dirk played in Europe 1 year when he was 18 years old. Are you seriously suggesting that Dirk would not have absolutely dominated European basketball? He was averaging 30/10 in FIBA basketball against national teams.

No he wouldnt have dominated in europe as he did in the NBA. Because in europe they actually play defence. Yeah real defence not NBA "defence" You couldnt see it from one look but if you really get in to it and analize you see that european basketball is very very very different than NBA. When you see just NBA then yeah even i think maybe those defensive NBA teams are not that bad at defence. But then watch european defence and remember . AH now thats some focking hard defence.

[Brunch@Five]

No he wouldnt have dominated in europe as he did in the NBA. Because in europe they actually play defence. Yeah real defence not NBA "defence" You couldnt see it from one look but if you really get in to it and analize you see that european basketball is very very very different than NBA. When you see just NBA then yeah even i think maybe those defensive NBA teams are not that bad at defence. But then watch european defence and remember . AH now thats some focking hard defence.

Also one thing that Dirk Novitcky is a PF. he not a true center. So he shouldnt even be in this list.

I'm from Europe and see plenty of European basketball, thank you. And I also see Dirk regularly schooling International teams at world championships, european championships etc where NO ONE is able to defend him.

[Cermet]

I'm from Europe and see plenty of European basketball, thank you. And I also see Dirk regularly schooling International teams at world championships, european championships etc where NO ONE is able to defend him.

How could you even say that when he didnt play in europe that much. I mean you cant judge from one year of FIBA basket. HAve you actually seen Sabonis when he played when Lithuanian was taken in the soviet unian? I mean go ask a good european basketball expert or maybe even NBA who has some brains he will tell you what Sabonis did for basketball and how good he was in his prime.

[Cermet]

I'm from Europe and see plenty of European basketball, thank you. And I also see Dirk regularly schooling International teams at world championships, european championships etc where NO ONE is able to defend him.

Oh and if your from europe and you still love NBA more then euro basketball you cant call your self an european guy. I wont say the either european basketball is better or NBA is better but I will tel you no european person will always prefer Europe basketball. Europeans and Americans ar like Black and white like water and fire completely different.

[tbc]

Dejan Bodiroga anyone?

[QuebecBaller]

Peja, TP, Divac, Detlef, Siekaly > Kukoc
:rockon: :rockon:

Kukoc was a second coming of Detlef

[White Chocolate]

Sabonis, Petro, and Dirk are top 3. As for the order, that can be debated.

[Brunch@Five]

Oh and if your from europe and you still love NBA more then euro basketball you cant call your self an european guy. I wont say the either european basketball is better or NBA is better but I will tel you no european person will always prefer Europe basketball. Europeans and Americans ar like Black and white like water and fire completely different.

:oldlol: you're ridiculous :roll:

[Cermet]

:oldlol: you're ridiculous :roll:

Yeah thats a little bit objective. But seriosly if youre european and inteligent and like real basketball with actual defece you WILL prefer european basketball. I mean sure if in your country basketball is not so popular then sure you probably prefer NBA. In my country basketball is very very popular and I dont know anyone who likes NBA more than european and is over 16 years old. Im just saying if there were a surevey of european country that basketball is popular in most of them would say they like European basketball much more. No bull**** were one person scores 40 points almost every second game. I like NBA i cheer for my Blazers and other teams I like but if I really watched every nba game of team I would be bored. So i prefer european basketball more than nba.

The best compromise would be like one person in here said. They are in top 3 but its very debatable

[Harison]

Dirk is pretty easily #1. I'd love to hear an argument for anyone else who had a better career, international or NBA
Dirk had the best NBA career, but he never was as dominant as Sabonis in prime, who is considered to be among the best and the most talented centers in the history, Europe and NBA alike. Its not like Sabas havent faced NBA superstars, in prime he toyed with Robinson, in old age and injured he still was good in NBA. Dirk has one thing over Sabas - a bit higher volume scoring, at everything else Dirk is worse - defense, passing, rebounding, blocking, BBIQ, you name it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik

Scottie Pippen: Sabonis was "the best European basketball player to ever play the game".

Sean Elliott routinely claimed that Arvydas "should be in the conversation as one of the greatest centers ever".

Hall of Famer Bill Walton describes "Sabas" as "the greatest passing center of all time".

Dino Radja, “That guy, without his injuries, would have been better than David Robinson,” “Believe me, he was that good. Know him long time. In 1985, he was a beast. He ran the floor like Ralph Sampson. Could shoot the three, dunk. He would have been an NBA all-star 10 years in a row. It's true, I tell you.”

[Cermet]

[QUOTE=Harison]Dirk had the best NBA career, but he never was as dominant as Sabonis in prime, who is considered to be among the best and the most talented centers in the history, Europe and NBA alike. Its not like Sabas havent faced NBA superstars, in prime he toyed with Robinson, in old age and injured he still was good in NBA. Dirk has one thing over Sabas - a bit higher volume scoring, at everything else Dirk is worse - defense, passing, rebounding, blocking, BBIQ, you name it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik

Scottie Pippen: Sabonis was "the best European basketball player to ever play the game".

Sean Elliott routinely claimed that Arvydas "should be in the conversation as one of the greatest centers ever".

Hall of Famer Bill Walton describes "Sabas" as "the greatest passing center of all time".

Dino Radja,

[madmax]

European basketball is not better than NBA basketball.

You mean to tell me, that Europeans have to be playing on full blast the whole game for their leagues to even be compared to the NBA? That is sad.

Most NBA teams don't start playing until the 4th quarter. Basketball is a game of runs. This is not college.

that is why NBA regular season is a joke...teams start playing defense ONLY in a 4th quarter, and only if a game is within the reach. Euro players may not be gifted athletically, but they sure as hell know how to play smart defense

[gxL]

I am impressed by your vast topographical knowledge. Your point however?

Manu is Argentinian and Italian. Italy is in Europe, but I'm sure you knew. ;)
Kobe is Italian, I GUESS he's the greatest european player:hammerhead:

[Showtime]

Kobe is Italian, I GUESS he's the greatest european player:hammerhead:
He was born in Philly, not Italy.

[Brunch@Five]

I actually agree that in principle European basketball is better, but the players that play that brand of ball are way worse than those that play in the NBA.

Also, Sabonis didn't dominate DRob in his prime, who was still in college at that time.

[Cermet]

European basketball is not better than NBA basketball.

You mean to tell me, that Europeans have to be playing on full blast the whole game for their leagues to even be compared to the NBA? That is sad.

Most NBA teams don't start playing until the 4th quarter. Basketball is a game of runs. This is not college.

I didnt say better basketball i said better DEFENCE. And please dont make a fool out of yourself and dont even try to tell me that NBA has better defence...

[Lakas Fan Yo]

1. Nikos Galis
2. Drazen Petrovic
3. Dejan Bodiroga
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Pau Gasol
6. Sarunas Marciulonis
7. Tony Kukoc
8. Arvydas Sabonis

Galis is the best European player ever. All the Sabonis talk is IF, IF, IF, he was healthy, but he was injured a lot so he is not the best ever.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

larry bird descent from Europe too, does that mean he is the best european player.

Bird's parents were not Italian immigrants. Bird does not have European citizenship. BTW, while we are on this subject, I believe that Kevin McHale's mother was Croatian.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Dirk played in Europe 1 year when he was 18 years old. Are you seriously suggesting that Dirk would not have absolutely dominated European basketball? He was averaging 30/10 in FIBA basketball against national teams.

Your stats are pure BS. He is nothing close to 30/10 in FIBA.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

I'm from Europe and see plenty of European basketball, thank you. And I also see Dirk regularly schooling International teams at world championships, european championships etc where NO ONE is able to defend him.

The last few FIBA tournaments Dirk played in he was awful. You are posting garbage.

[Brunch@Five]

The last few FIBA tournaments Dirk played in he was awful. You are posting garbage.


you two are not even worth responding to, but one last time:


with averages of 28.7 points and 9.1 rebounds, Nowitzki led the tournament in both statistics, and was voted to the All-Star team
that was in the 2001 FIBA championships. So, no 30/10, only 29/9


Despite losing the Finals 78–62 to the Greeks, Nowitzki was the tournament's leading scorer (26.7 ppg) and second-leading rebounder (10.8 rpg) and shot blocker (1.8 bpg), and was voted Most Valuable Player of the tournament

that was 2005, averaged 27/11. In 40 minutes of FIBA ball, not 48 like in the NBA

[shawbryant]

Gasol

[Lakas Fan Yo]

you two are not even worth responding to, but one last time:


that was in the 2001 FIBA championships. So, no 30/10, only 29/9



that was 2005, averaged 27/11. In 40 minutes of FIBA ball, not 48 like in the NBA

He has NEVER averaged 30/10 in FIBA. And at the 2007 Euro championship and the 2008 Olympics Dirk was pretty bad regardless of what any stat showed. He was great at earlier tournaments though. But in fact his prime FIBA numbers are basically identical to his prime NBA numbers.

His career FIBA number is something like 25/8 or 26/9. No way in hell close to a 30/10. And yeah the best he ever did any FIBA tournament was no 30/10. And regardless at the last two FIBA tournaments the 2007 Euro championship and the 2008 Olympics he struggled. Actually that was the first time starting in 2007 that international teams put small defenders on him. Ever since then he was not nearly the same player. Prior to that he was only guarded by big men.

You won't ever see Dirk put up even the 27/11 again in a FIBA tournament now that teams know how to guard him. To suggest he would get 30/10 is laughable and shows a clear NBA only fan bias and total lack of knowledge of any kind about European basketball. He will be a 25/8 about player now that international teams understand how to guard him.

Also Dirk has NEVER won a FIBA championship. So for all the stats he puts up he has not won jack. Sort of like his NBA career. You make it sound like he dominated FIBA, which is pure fiction.

[SuperLopez]

1. Nikos Galis
2. Drazen Petrovic
3. Dejan Bodiroga
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Pau Gasol
6. Sarunas Marciulonis
7. Tony Kukoc
8. Arvydas Sabonis

Galis is the best European player ever. All the Sabonis talk is IF, IF, IF, he was healthy, but he was injured a lot so he is not the best ever.
:roll: :roll: :lol

it's unbelievable how people overrate Bodiroga

[Lakas Fan Yo]

:roll: :roll: :lol

it's unbelievable how people overrate Bodiroga

What's wrong with Bodiroga? He was better than Manu.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Manu does have italian citizenship. However he was born, raised in Argentina and plays for the Argentinian national team. His stint in Italy was short, and I don't think he qualifies as "european" player.


And I need confirmation, but I think Kobe also got his italian citizenship, right? If he did, I'm sure as hell he wouldn't qualify as and "european player".

People make a big deal out of where a player "played early". Well Jasikevicius played high school and college basketball in the UNITED STATES. When was the last time someone called him an American player?

[kaktus14]

:roll: :roll: :lol

it's unbelievable how people overrate Bodiroga
The most intelligent player ever in European Basketball,winner trough out his whole career,2nd best SF behind Kukoc of All time in Europe

[kaktus14]

Dirk is the best, behind him in no particular order are Kukoc,Sabonis,Gasol,Petrovic,Bodiroga,Radja.

For me Kukoc is right behind Dirk,best player of best European team of All time,played significant role in 2nd Bulls three peat,on international level,won almost everything.

[ZOMG]

1. Nikos Galis
2. Drazen Petrovic
3. Dejan Bodiroga
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Pau Gasol
6. Sarunas Marciulonis
7. Tony Kukoc
8. Arvydas Sabonis


Galis didn't play ANY defense. NONE AT ALL. Offensively, though, he was nothing short of incredible. Both things are true for Kukoc as well, back when he was in Europe.

Bodiroga should be nowhere near top 3. He was a great ballhandler and shooter and an extremely intelligent player, but also very slow and unathletic. In the NBA, he wouldn't have been able to play like he did in Europe.

Marciulonis was tough and fearless but let's face it - he was NOT better than Kukor or Sabonis at any stage of his career. Kukoc definitely belongs to the top 3 - he's the best natural basketball talent Europe has ever produced. He was also deceptively quick when he had to be. Kukoc's first step helped him a LOT in the NBA.

[ZOMG]

What's wrong with Bodiroga? He was better than Manu.

The Euro game was tailor-made for Bodiroga. He knew it too and stayed there.

Manu was much better suited to the NBA.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Galis didn't play ANY defense. NONE AT ALL. Offensively, though, he was nothing short of incredible. Both things are true for Kukoc as well, back when he was in Europe.

Bodiroga should be nowhere near top 3. He was a great ballhandler and shooter and an extremely intelligent player, but also very slow and unathletic. In the NBA, he wouldn't have been able to play like he did in Europe.

Marciulonis was tough and fearless but let's face it - he was NOT better than Kukor or Sabonis at any stage of his career. Kukoc definitely belongs to the top 3 - he's the best natural basketball talent Europe has ever produced. He was also deceptively quick when he had to be. Kukoc's first step helped him a LOT in the NBA.

What you say is about right. As for Galis I didn't knock him for poor defense. Overall he was the best ever. And the main reason for his defense was because Giannakis played next to him. Giannakis played defense for 3 players so Galis was just used to score. Giannakis was the best defender in Europe of all time. So part of Galis' laziness was the blanket he had next to him.

But even though his D was poor he still beat teams by himself on offense. I mean he might have given up 15 points on defense but he could score 40 on offense against any team, any opponent, any defender, against any defensive scheme, etc. He was triple teamed time after time and still would score 35-40 points. Dude was inhuman scoring the ball. So despite the bad defense he still gave you about a plus 25 net points from his position just about every game. To me I've never seen any other European player that could match that.

Kukoc was not used properly in the NBA. He was too much in the background with the Bulls. But he mainly cared about winning. Still he would have been a 20/5/5 player on most NBA teams.

Marciulonis was an animal. Dude was tough as nails and fierce. He was the heart of those Soviet teams and the guy that won most the games, yet Sabonis gets all the credit. NBA fans are funny as they don't even know Sabonis' teammate was the guy that was really the MVP of those teams. But this board is flooded with Sabonis this, Sabonis that.

As for Sabonis when he was healthy and at his best he was a thing of beauty and a pleasure. Smartest big man I've ever seen. But he was hardly ever healthy his whole career. He's still one of the best but not THE best. He seems to get a pass on the "what if he was healthy". It's not fair to other players because he was not the best. He was not healthy and there is no what if about it. You could say "what if Sampson was healthy" but do people do that? No. So why everyone does it with Sabonis is a bit odd.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The Euro game was tailor-made for Bodiroga. He knew it too and stayed there.

Manu was much better suited to the NBA.

Yeah well the Euro game is also much better suited to Larry Bird. So what? Bodiroga was like the European version of Bird. Just because he was slow does not mean he could not play in the NBA. He would have had no problem at all, Freaking Peja was once 2nd in MVP voting in the NBA for crying out load.

As for Manu, his game is more reliant on athletic ability. That's why he's struggling now that he is losing it. Not the same skill level as Bodi Bond.

[Cermet]

1. Nikos Galis
2. Drazen Petrovic
3. Dejan Bodiroga
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Pau Gasol
6. Sarunas Marciulonis
7. Tony Kukoc
8. Arvydas Sabonis

Galis is the best European player ever. All the Sabonis talk is IF, IF, IF, he was healthy, but he was injured a lot so he is not the best ever.
DUde we are talking about Best european players in history. Not best european player in the NBA.

When yo put Arvydas SAbonis at 8 spot and below Sarunas Marciulionis than you are probably High. First of all i can say instantly that you are Niko Galis fanboy. We are talking about who were the best men. So we are not talking about how they played all their life. Sabonis easily goes in to top3. In his prime he was unbelievable.


I think we should end this now because everyone here has a different opinion and no one will back down.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

DUde we are talking about Best european players in history. Not best european player in the NBA.

When yo put Arvydas SAbonis at 8 spot and below Sarunas Marciulionis than you are probably High. First of all i can say instantly that you are Niko Galis fanboy. We are talking about who were the best men. So we are not talking about how they played all their life. Sabonis easily goes in to top3. In his prime he was unbelievable.


I think we should end this now because everyone here has a different opinion and no one will back down.

Totally incoherent post.

[Hyman]

I have never seen Gallis play, so I will not comment anything about him

But I have seen Bodiroga play. And Bodiroga wasnt at all a great shooter from long-range. He only shooted from the 3 point line ocassionally and most of the times when he was alone without opposition. Very rarely he could create his own 3 point shot, because his mechanic for shooting was to slow

Fortunately I have seen Bodiroga play in my team, but he was no way near the dimenssion Gasol has got today. Athletically they were uncomparabale and Gasol when he left Barcelona with 20 years, he had dominated the spanish league as Bodiroga never did. With only 20 years and it was barely his rookie year at Barcelona

Bodiroga was very good. He reminds me of Zidane playing football. He is one of the players with more fundamental I've seen in my life. His post moves where unbelievable and he could perfectly play, when I say perfectly is perfectly, any position in european basketball except center

He won everything in Europe and he had that characteristic yugoslavian winning mentality. But again, I dont think that he showed a higher level of basketball than Gasol at his rookie year on Europe. Gasol on Europe has had probably one of the best rookie years and biggest impacts on the history of European basketball. From being no one to being MVP of the spanish cup and MVP of the spanish league. Gasol in Europe played as a small forward most of the time

Bodiroga although playing at an excellent level during lots and lots of years and winning lots of things, had never dominated more than Gasol did when he was 20 at Europe. And I had them both in my teams

[Hyman]

Morover Nowitzki has never dominated FIBA basketball when playing international competitions

At his first years he did quite well for the German national team and he brought his team to a European final againts Greece, with a clutch game winner against Spain on the semifinals. That was of an incredible merit for him as Germany were an extremely average team

But since then his performances have been quite poor. Yes of course he has scored lots of points, but he didnt make his team mates any better, he missed lots of shots and his impact was quite meaningless. His FG percentages were really poor and he was turnover prone.

Gasol has always excelled more on FIBA basketball than Nowitzki. Maybe because his team is far better

[malek4980]

Morover Nowitzki has never dominated FIBA basketball when playing international competitions


How does a player win the MVP trophies in the European Championship and the World Championship in losing efforts while not dominating?




But since then his performances have been quite poor. Yes of course he has scored lots of points, but he didnt make his team mates any better, he missed lots of shots and his impact was quite meaningless. His FG percentages were really poor and he was turnover prone.

2007 FIBA European Championships: 24.0 PPG, 50.5% shooting, 8.7 RPG and 1.3 TO. Wow that's horrible. Maybe that's not as good as 28.7 points and 9.1 rebounds in 2001 or 26 and 11 in 2005, but those weren't dominating performances according to you anyway.



Gasol has always excelled more on FIBA basketball than Nowitzki. Maybe because his team is far better
Maybe? You think Gasol could get into the medals with Germany? Probably about as likely as winning a first round game with Memphis.

[tbc]

I'm not saying Bodiroga is the best euro ever,but he needs to be mentioned here.

I loved watching him play,and don't give me that 'slow unathletic' bs.We all know euro ball was never about and1 crap and high flying guards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4 <-- i still chuckle when i watch that clip,carmelo didn't even know what happened (altho dejan travels on the 2nd play)

[ZOMG]

I loved watching him play

Yeah, I'm definitely not saying that Bodiroga's game wasn't beatiful to watch. It was. His use of the pivot foot and his post moves were second to none. His whole career was a lesson in how to score when you're not the fastest, the best jumper or the strongest. He used fundamentals and creativity.

[Cermet]

The NBA has better defense. I just told you.

Then youre the dumbest human in history. Youre probably a retard so i will not be mad at you. Poor you...

[KubiliusF]

Then youre the dumbest human in history. Youre probably a retard so i will not be mad at you. Poor you...

:banghead:

[chains5000]

You honestly think that NBA teams can't play better defense than European teams? You shouldn't feel bad for anyone but yourself.
It's not that NBA teams play better or worse defense, it's that NBA rules don't allow teams to defend as well as they can.

[madmax]

It's not that NBA teams play better or worse defense, it's that NBA rules don't allow teams to defend as well as they can.

this...various zone variants and handchecking is allowed in Europe, not to mention that ridiculous NBA defensive 3 second rule:confusedshrug: Stern isn't keen on hard fought physical games - it's all about marketing and money...

[PistonsFan#21]

I'd rather see foot defense instead of hand defense. It's much harder, and it really makes a defensive player work. Why go for the cop out in hand checking?

NBA just doesn't have enough players willing to dedicate to defense. It's just the way players are being raised today. All the scorers are being offered scholarships and drafted, while the defenders are seen as expandable.

Blame it on the basketball coaches of this age.

Thats why USA won most of the world tournament and scored something like 110pts + per game agaisnt european defense. Right?

[Harison]

The NBA has better defense. I just told you.
Personalty I think NBA has more quality defenders (and pretty much majority of the best players in the World). BUT due to very soft "cant touch me" rules defense is weaker, therefore NBA has more flashy and higher scoring game.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

How does a player win the MVP trophies in the European Championship and the World Championship in losing efforts while not dominating?



2007 FIBA European Championships: 24.0 PPG, 50.5% shooting, 8.7 RPG and 1.3 TO. Wow that's horrible. Maybe that's not as good as 28.7 points and 9.1 rebounds in 2001 or 26 and 11 in 2005, but those weren't dominating performances according to you anyway.


Maybe? You think Gasol could get into the medals with Germany? Probably about as likely as winning a first round game with Memphis.

Dirk has never been close to dominating in FIBA. NBA fans can be really delusional. I personally think Dirk is a better player right now than Pau and overall I gave him the nod because I like where he is at right now. But Pau has been a FAR better FIBA player than Dirk. It is CLEAR that NBA fans have never watched these FIBA tournaments if they think Dirk dominated. Hell the last 2 competitions as I said he played awful.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

I'm not saying Bodiroga is the best euro ever,but he needs to be mentioned here.

I loved watching him play,and don't give me that 'slow unathletic' bs.We all know euro ball was never about and1 crap and high flying guards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4 <-- i still chuckle when i watch that clip,carmelo didn't even know what happened (altho dejan travels on the 2nd play)

Bodiroga was much better than what some are claiming here. Bottom line to any American that wants to know facts. Europeans across the board overrate Sabonis and underrate Bodiroga and especially Galis. The reason is because most of these guys never actually saw them play. It's about the same as Americans that think Kobe is better than Jordan.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The NBA has better defense. I just told you.

The Euroleague has better defense than the NBA. At least in this era. I wouldn't say it was back when most of these guys played though. That's a different time. But in today's game the Euroleague defense is much better than the NBA defense.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Thats why USA won most of the world tournament and scored something like 110pts + per game agaisnt european defense. Right?

Apparently you did not watch the Olympics. Team USA could foul players and by doing so force turnovers, then run and dunk it. In the NBA not only is a foul called if you foul a ball handler, but if it is a point guard or a certain "star" it is a foul just for looking at them wrong.

So Team USA would have NOT gotten all those turnovers and fast easy break points under NBA ref calls for fouling. They would never have scored anywhere near that many points and the other teams would have shot way more free throws. In fact, Team USA was completely average in the Olympics in half court against a set defense. And if you would have paid attention you would have noticed that Kobe and Wade both said they wished NBA would allow them to get physical and put their hands and bodies on the other team's guards like they could in the Olympics because they got so many easy dunks on turnovers. As they said in the NBA they would be fouls.

The offense came off of that difference in defense rules, it sure did not come from their ability to score in the half court, which was nothing more than average. Keep in mind that in the Euroleague it is not like the Olympics where you have some NBA stars playing a small amount of games. Players can't just totally manhandle on defense (unlike Team USA in Olympics) (unless they are Rubio who gets special treatment)........so those fast break points are not there and the half court defense is still very strong.

It's amazing to see NBA fans brag how any NBA scrub averages 30 in Europe, while average NBA players actually have a hard time even getting 10 a game.

[lukekarts]

Apparently you did not watch the Olympics. Team USA could foul players and by doing so force turnovers, then run and dunk it. In the NBA not only is a foul called if you foul a ball handler, but if it is a point guard or a certain "star" it is a foul just for looking at them wrong.

So Team USA would have NOT gotten all those turnovers and fast easy break points under NBA ref calls for fouling. They would never have scored anywhere near that many points and the other teams would have shot way more free throws. In fact, Team USA was completely average in the Olympics in half court against a set defense. And if you would have paid attention you would have noticed that Kobe and Wade both said they wished NBA would allow them to get physical and put their hands and bodies on the other team's guards like they could in the Olympics because they got so many easy dunks on turnovers. As they said in the NBA they would be fouls.

The offense came off of that difference in defense rules, it sure did not come from their ability to score in the half court, which was nothing more than average. Keep in mind that in the Euroleague it is not like the Olympics where you have some NBA stars playing a small amount of games. Players can't just totally manhandle on defense (unlike Team USA in Olympics) (unless they are Rubio who gets special treatment)........so those fast break points are not there and the half court defense is still very strong.

It's amazing to see NBA fans brag how any NBA scrub averages 30 in Europe, while average NBA players actually have a hard time even getting 10 a game.

Riiigght, so you're saying that in Europe players can't get all these fast break points due to manhandling, and that half court defense is still very strong, yet NBA scrubs can put up 30 points a game? How exactly does that work? :roll:

[Brunch@Five]

Dirk has never been close to dominating in FIBA. NBA fans can be really delusional. I personally think Dirk is a better player right now than Pau and overall I gave him the nod because I like where he is at right now. But Pau has been a FAR better FIBA player than Dirk. It is CLEAR that NBA fans have never watched these FIBA tournaments if they think Dirk dominated. Hell the last 2 competitions as I said he played awful.

This post his completely delusional, and against all facts. Dirk led Germany to the medals with him being the only player of international merit. The other teams entire defenses were focused on him, he was fouled a lot more than what was called and he still put up 29/9, 27/11 which NO other player has averaged under FIBA rules in recent years.

[PistonsFan#21]

Apparently you did not watch the Olympics. Team USA could foul players and by doing so force turnovers, then run and dunk it. In the NBA not only is a foul called if you foul a ball handler, but if it is a point guard or a certain "star" it is a foul just for looking at them wrong.

So Team USA would have NOT gotten all those turnovers and fast easy break points under NBA ref calls for fouling. They would never have scored anywhere near that many points and the other teams would have shot way more free throws. In fact, Team USA was completely average in the Olympics in half court against a set defense. And if you would have paid attention you would have noticed that Kobe and Wade both said they wished NBA would allow them to get physical and put their hands and bodies on the other team's guards like they could in the Olympics because they got so many easy dunks on turnovers. As they said in the NBA they would be fouls.

The offense came off of that difference in defense rules, it sure did not come from their ability to score in the half court, which was nothing more than average. Keep in mind that in the Euroleague it is not like the Olympics where you have some NBA stars playing a small amount of games. Players can't just totally manhandle on defense (unlike Team USA in Olympics) (unless they are Rubio who gets special treatment)........so those fast break points are not there and the half court defense is still very strong.

It's amazing to see NBA fans brag how any NBA scrub averages 30 in Europe, while average NBA players actually have a hard time even getting 10 a game.

All the teams played under the same rules in the olympic you idiot...It wasnt only USA that was allowed to play physical. Stop saying the refs rigged the game and admit that NBA players owned overseas players. As simple as that.

[madmax]

All the teams played under the same rules in the olympic you idiot...It wasnt only USA that was allowed to play physical. Stop saying the refs rigged the game and admit that NBA players owned overseas players. As simple as that.

nope...the games were held in China and yes, USA team GOT preferential treatment on D and were allowed to walk their way to the basket...now if it were NBA rules, no one would be complaining, but apparently they were supposed to play under FIBA regulations:wtf: I've never seen so many dirty steals and travelling from any team ever...and it's not like team USA needed any help from the refs:confusedshrug:

[dn41]

Dirk has never been close to dominating in FIBA. NBA fans can be really delusional. I personally think Dirk is a better player right now than Pau and overall I gave him the nod because I like where he is at right now. But Pau has been a FAR better FIBA player than Dirk. It is CLEAR that NBA fans have never watched these FIBA tournaments if they think Dirk dominated. Hell the last 2 competitions as I said he played awful.

Why are you lying? :confusedshrug:

[PistonsFan#21]

nope...the games were held in China and yes, USA team GOT preferential treatment on D and were allowed to walk their way to the basket...now if it were NBA rules, no one would be complaining, but apparently they were supposed to play under FIBA regulations:wtf: I've never seen so many dirty steals and travelling from any team ever...and it's not like team USA needed any help from the refs:confusedshrug:

EXACTLY! The games were held in China so every team had to play under the rules the referees in China were using...They weren't using NBA rules for NBA players and FIBA rules for other teams. It was the same for every team. NBA didnt had the preferential treatment at all...they weren't the favorite team and they didnt play in their country.

And there wasnt any dirty steals. They played rough on defense because FIBA rules allow you to play more aggressive. Thats called using things to your advantage if you didnt know.

[madmax]

EXACTLY! The games were held in China so every team had to play under the rules the referees in China were using...They weren't using NBA rules for NBA players and FIBA rules for other teams. It was the same for every team. NBA didnt had the preferential treatment at all...they weren't the favorite team and they didnt play in their country.

And there wasnt any dirty steals. They played rough on defense because FIBA rules allow you to play more aggressive. Thats called using things to your advantage if you didnt know.

yeah, but the thing is, USA teams opponents were not allowed to play the SAME aggressive defense as NBA stars...if they tried, they were punished by the refs. If you don't believe me, some refs from that tournament actually admitted they were favouring Team USA by applying double standards to their opponents. I lost the count how many times travelling went uncalled in those games...

[Cermet]

I'd rather see foot defense instead of hand defense. It's much harder, and it really makes a defensive player work. Why go for the cop out in hand checking?

NBA just doesn't have enough players willing to dedicate to defense. It's just the way players are being raised today. All the scorers are being offered scholarships and drafted, while the defenders are seen as expandable.

Blame it on the basketball coaches of this age.

Are you serious man? In NBa ZONE defence is banned.How ****ing stupid is that? NBa player can play defence but as somebody said NBA doesnt let them because they want that there would be more points. So that they could get more money. Because stupid fat rednecks form america like only points and there is a vast majority of those whitetrash rednecks. Thats why most poppular sport in europe football(in retard language soccer) is hated by Americans. Because they cant stand when tere is only 2-0 or even 0-0.

[PistonsFan#21]

yeah, but the thing is, USA teams opponents were not allowed to play the SAME aggressive defense as NBA stars...if they tried, they were punished by the refs. If you don't believe me, some refs from that tournament actually admitted they were favouring Team USA by applying double standards to their opponents. I lost the count how many times travelling went uncalled in those games...

You are a liar and not pretty good at it. No refs admitted rigging the olympic games. Find me a link or anything that proves your claim. If there was such a thing in the Olympic games trust me it wouldnt pass unnoticed. And stop talking as if every USA point was a travel. They won fair and square.

[PistonsFan#21]

Are you serious man? In NBa ZONE defence is banned.How ****ing stupid is that? NBa player can play defence but as somebody said NBA doesnt let them because they want that there would be more points. So that they could get more money. Because stupid fat rednecks form america like only points and there is a vast majority of those whitetrash rednecks. Thats why most poppular sport in europe football(in retard language soccer) is hated by Americans. Because they cant stand when tere is only 2-0 or even 0-0.

Zone defense in NBA is banned? Thats news to me :hammerhead:

[Cermet]

You are a liar and not pretty good at it. No refs admitted rigging the olympic games. Find me a link or anything that proves your claim. If there was such a thing in the Olympic games trust me it wouldnt pass unnoticed. And stop talking as if every USA point was a travel. They won fair and square.

Well yes if dont count the thing that were said before i gues they won fair and square. its not europes fault that everyone is white in their country. Its hard to play when some dude gos 5 metres up and dunks on 3 people.

[Cermet]

Zone defense in NBA is banned? Thats news to me :hammerhead:

I was refering to the defensive 3 sec violation. Can anyone find a more stupid rule in the NBA?

[PistonsFan#21]

Well yes if dont count the thing that were said before i gues they won fair and square. its not europes fault that everyone is white in their country. Its hard to play when some dude gos 5 metres up and dunks on 3 people.

Its not USA's fault that NBA is mostly composed of black players that are more athletic than european white guys

[Cermet]

Its not USA's fault that NBA is mostly composed of black players that are more athletic than european white guys

Yeah i gues it is. Black players have an advantage orver white guys in basketball. There were times when europeans could outsmart american basketballers or out shoot with 3 point shots and free throws but now they caught up with that. They do the same thing but can jump double.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

You are a liar and not pretty good at it. No refs admitted rigging the olympic games. Find me a link or anything that proves your claim. If there was such a thing in the Olympic games trust me it wouldnt pass unnoticed. And stop talking as if every USA point was a travel. They won fair and square.

The head of the Olympic reffing committee stated that they were instructed to call games in favor of Team USA. Team USA was allowed to foul more aggressively and travels committed by Team USA were mostly to be ignored. This was reported widely all across Europe. No surprise that it was blacked out in US media, for obvious reasons.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Zone defense in NBA is banned? Thats news to me :hammerhead:

There is no zone allowed in the NBA. Have you heard of the 3 second lane?

[plowking]

There is no zone allowed in the NBA. Have you heard of the 3 second lane?

Yeah there is... Heard of a 3-2 zone?...

[ShaqAttack3234]

As far as NBA careers? It'd Probably go like this.

1.Dirk Nowitzki
2.Pau Gasol
3.Tony Parker
4.Vlade Divac
5.Peja Stojakovic

If we're talking NBA primes then Petrovic, Sabonis and Kukoc enter the discussion, but nobody beats Dirk.

[vert48]

If you are talking about best Euro players, you have to include Kresimir Cosic. He was Sabonis before Sabonis had ever played a game.

[R.I.P.]

This post his completely delusional, and against all facts. Dirk led Germany to the medals with him being the only player of international merit. The other teams entire defenses were focused on him, he was fouled a lot more than what was called and he still put up 29/9, 27/11 which NO other player has averaged under FIBA rules in recent years.

Exactly.

[Bigsmoke]

Dirk and then Gasol

[JustinJDW]

http://www.clap.name/images/blog/tony_parker.jpg

Just sayin. :rolleyes:

[KubiliusF]

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/no-makeup-eva-longoria-400a050307.jpg

just sayin

[R.I.P.]

http://www.clap.name/images/blog/tony_parker.jpg

Just sayin. :rolleyes:

As a counterpoint I

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Exactly.

And yet every single European poster agrees with me.

[Brunch@Five]

And yet every single European poster agrees with me.

no :oldlol: