Donaghy Says Stern Told Refs To Manipulate 2005 Mavs-Rockets Series

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Donaghy on Houston Sports radio 790 talking about the 2005 Mavs-Rockets series:

Interviewer: "Is it true that there was smoke [referring to David Stern ordering the refs to "ref Yao Ming differently"] to the fire before the 2005 Mavs-Rockets playoff series"?

Donaghy: "Not smoke, but a blaze."

Then Donaghy says that Stern ordered the refs to specifically single out Yao for foul calls starting with game 3 of the series.

Then I saw this.............Donaghy: "And that's why T-Mac never got out of the first round."

Jeff Van Gundy got fined $100,000 by Stern and threatened with losing his job because he said that he was told by Stu Jackson in the NBA office in New York (an old friend of his) that Stern had ordered the refs to "ref Yao Ming differently". Van Gundy complained about this to the media and as ESPN and TNT said he implicated that Stern was rigging the playoff series.

Stern went nuts and threatened Van Gundy and fined him $100,000 and seemingly got away with it. Now Donaghy said that STERN HIMSELF ordered that series to be reffed differently.

Donaghy then specifically mentions game 5 of the 2005 Mavs-Rockets series. Now look at this:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/lazenby19691969/05_05_02_vs_mavericks.jpg

As you can see Michael Finley is out of bounds at the end of game 5 where he touched the ball and yet the refs gave the ball to the Mavs instead of the Rockets. This call led to Dallas winning game 5, instead of Houston.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

will this be the end of the road for mr. stern?

[iamgine]

Hmm, I wonder if Van Gundy will back this up.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Hmm, I wonder if Van Gundy will back this up.

i doubt it, he'll probably keep quiet in fear of being "black-balled".

[oh the horror]

will this be the end of the road for mr. stern?


You have to wonder what is going to happen at this point. Thats a lot of heat though....one can only question if Stern will defend himself, step down, or continue on like nothing is happening.

[ronnymac]

That Series Should have never got to 7 games. we got some of the worst officiating i have seen in my 16 years as a rockets fan. that was worst then any offciating we would get even in utah in the mid 90's. i honestly after game 3,4 5 suspected something was not right. Dirk and Erica Dampier were setting some of the most dubios supposed screens i've ever seen. they were moving on almost everyone of them. McGrady was getting hit left and right with some astonishing no calls and yao was badly treated that Van Gundy was fined a 100 thou for mentioning it. **** you stern. that rockets team could have gone all the way.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

You have to wonder what is going to happen at this point. Thats a lot of heat though....one can only question if Stern will defend himself, step down, or continue on like nothing is happening.

will congress get involved like they did steroids? i hope so...

[ChuckOakley]

will this be the end of the road for mr. stern?

Please......Most companies/business are run the same way.. by some ulta-powerful and generally corrupt man who only cares about making money and his/his companies image to the general public.

Stern's been getting away with this for decades. Nothing will change now.

[beasly15]

it's official: F*CK STERN!

[oh the horror]

Its very frustrating as a basketball fan to hear, or read any of this.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Please......Most companies/business are run the same way.. by some ulta-powerful and generally corrupt man who only cares about making money and his/his companies image to the general public.

Stern's been getting away with this for decades. Nothing will change now.

yeah this ain't serious at all...i mean he's possibly taking money from owners by "rigging" basketball games. i doubt the rockets owner cares at all.

[magnax1]

Series I'm 90% sure were rigged are
07 Suns-Spurs
02 Kings-Lakers
02 Kings-Mavericks
03TWolves-Lakers
98 Jazz-Bulls
I dont really think the 06 finals were rigged, the Heat had been getting those calls during the regular season too.

[ronnymac]

The blazers got screwed in 2000 we got screwed in 05 and the poor kings got bent over in 02.

[justin43]

This will only feed conspiracy theories. I don't like these developments in the slightest. I can already picture some people claiming that the NBA is nothing more than the WWE, which is false. I sense some deception and half-truths in his statements. I am sure that the refs have personal biases and that they sometimes miss calls, but to say that they did it on purpose is another matter.

[oh the horror]

This will only feed conspiracy theories. I don't like these developments in the slightest. I can already picture some people claiming that the NBA is nothing more than the WWE, which is false. I sense some deception and half-truths in his statements. I am sure that the refs have personal biases and that they sometimes miss calls, but to say that they did it on purpose is another matter.


Well now all it creates is the atmosphere that if someone's team doesnt win, its because it was rigged. Paranoia will be at an all time high.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Well now all it creates is the atmosphere that if someone's team doesnt win, its because it was rigged. Paranoia will be at an all time high.

which is why stern has to go!

[Lebron23]

Poor Tracy Mcgrady

[Lakas Fan Yo]

What I don't understand is how Van Gundy Stu Jackson told him about this and yet Stern somehow got away with it. Even after this was reported to the media?

I remember Stern giving an interview during a playoff game where he basically on air threatened Van Gundy and said it was all vicious lies. There has to be some intervention now from Congress or something. People are arguing about Donaghy being a trusted source but this includes Stu Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy also. Jackson may not admit it but Van Gundy already went public with it. And would not van Gundy be able to now sue the NBA for the $100,00 fine and also for defamation of character?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

That Series Should have never got to 7 games. we got some of the worst officiating i have seen in my 16 years as a rockets fan. that was worst then any offciating we would get even in utah in the mid 90's. i honestly after game 3,4 5 suspected something was not right. Dirk and Erica Dampier were setting some of the most dubios supposed screens i've ever seen. they were moving on almost everyone of them. McGrady was getting hit left and right with some astonishing no calls and yao was badly treated that Van Gundy was fined a 100 thou for mentioning it. **** you stern. that rockets team could have gone all the way.

Can Rockets or Mavs fans that specifically watched all the games in that series cite some specific examples of the egregious calls in that series? I would really like to see them.

[ShaqAttack3234]

The blazers got screwed in 2000

No they didn't. They just blew a 15 point lead. It's not like the Lakers were living at the foul line either, they hit a bunch of jumpers.

[oh the horror]

I agree, that something needs to be done here. Heads need to roll, because I cannot see how you can have a company being ran this way. You could potentially lose waves of fans if people arent strung up over this.

[justin43]

Well now all it creates is the atmosphere that if someone's team doesnt win, its because it was rigged. Paranoia will be at an all time high.

Statements need to come out with evidence that these statements made by Donaghy are false. The integrity of the NBA is been threathened by a man who is just trying to get revenge and make a quick buck.:mad:

[vert48]

How was Yao ref'd differently?
Differently than they had been reffing him?
Differently than they were reffing other players?
Calling things that had not been called in the past, but should have?
Making up bogus calls?

[redhonda76]

Yao got played. And til this day, Yao was still officiating differently.

[oh the horror]

How was Yao ref'd differently?
Differently than they had been reffing him?
Differently than they were reffing other players?
Calling things that had not been called in the past, but should have?
Making up bogus calls?



Thats a good question. I wish he was asked to elaborate.

[David J. Stern]

Now do I really look like a man that would pull something like this? I want nothing more than the NBA to be fair and balanced, like fox news. Donaphy simply has an agenda againt myself, and my organization. Van Gundy is just a loud mouthed sore loser. Please stop with the paranoia, it is all for naught.

P.S. Make sure to get your Lakers - Cavs finals tickets early, its gonna be a slobberknocker!




Sincerely,

The Commish

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Hmm, I wonder if Van Gundy will back this up.

I found this on Google, it seems Van Gundy was scared of what Stern threatened him with. Maybe now Van Gundy will speak out again. I'm not sure though because he supposedly has like a $1 million a year job with ESPN and those jobs are a partnership deal with the NBA. So he would be kissing a $1 million a year job away if Stern was still in charge. It seems Stern has to be removed probably before everything can be looked into.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/sports/pro/basketball&id=6197842

Jeff Van Gundy ultimately backed off comments that a referee told him officials had targeted Yao Ming in the Houston Rockets' 2005 first-round playoff series against the Dallas Mavericks. Maybe Van Gundy was right after all.

The letter alleging referees altered games mentions only the year 2005, but the circumstances make it apparent that it is referring to the Rockets-Mavs series.

"Team 3 lost the first two games in the series and Team 3's owner complained to NBA officials," the letter said. "Team 3's owner alleged that referees were letting a Team 4 player get away with illegal screens. NBA Executive Y told Referee Supervisor Z that the referees for that game were to enforce the screening rules strictly against that Team 4 player. Referee Supervisor Z informed the referees about his instructions. As an alternate referee for that game, Tim also received these instructions."

Mavs owner Mark Cuban complained after his team lost the first two games of the series, and Dallas went on to beat Houston in seven games. Van Gundy said that a working referee had told him about the league's plan. Donaghy's letter claims that Supervisor Z contacted the coach. Van Gundy was fined $100,000.


So the question is then was Supervisor Z in fact Stu Jackson?

[justin43]

No they didn't. They just blew a 15 point lead. It's not like the Lakers were living at the foul line either, they hit a bunch of jumpers.

It seems that the "my team lost, so the game must be rigged" syndrome has already started if ShaqAttack3234 is responding to rigged claims.:violin:

Don't ignore Donaghy's statements, David Stern.:no: I want a response. Keeping quiet and keeping others quiet are not good ideas right now.:no:

[catch24]

Lol at this clown Tim Donaghy manipulating everyone. He's trying to get money and benefit his case/word digging into past quotes and controversial games. He heard JVGs comments years back and is now saying the series in itself was fixed...All he's doing is trying to make his 'word' cleaner by giving you fallacies. Don't feed into the conspiracy beast.

Read the ESPN article on Donaughy and how is claims were totally debunked -- point shaving, etc

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11340/tim-donaghys-claims-on-trial

[Lakas Fan Yo]

How was Yao ref'd differently?
Differently than they had been reffing him?
Differently than they were reffing other players?
Calling things that had not been called in the past, but should have?
Making up bogus calls?

It seems that the official NBA version and Stern's version is that they had to call fouls on Yao when he set screens. This was to start with game 3 of the series. However, Donaghy was asked to clarify if they were to ref Yao differently prior to the series start.

The question of was there smoke and he said "not smoke but a blaze". So I'm not sure what to make of this. It seems starting with game 3 that the refs were supposed to call fouls on Yao's screens, but before the series began they were to single him out also.

Again, we need Rockets and Mavs fans to explain what happened exactly in that series.

[KB2009Champ]

Ya'll are incredibly gullable. Unreal. So thats all it takes? For one mofo looking to make $$ on a book to start making stuff up for everyone to start beleiving him over the US government and the FBI who found no illegal activity going on other than with this ONE ref?


All he did was to look at games/series with controversial endings and add his two cents - DUH!!!

Unreal.

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/11340/tim-donaghys-claims-on-trial

Read that please.

SMDH :lol

[vert48]

"Team 3 lost the first two games in the series and Team 3's owner complained to NBA officials," the letter said. "Team 3's owner alleged that referees were letting a Team 4 player get away with illegal screens. NBA Executive Y told Referee Supervisor Z that the referees for that game were to enforce the screening rules strictly against that Team 4 player. Referee Supervisor Z informed the referees about his instructions. As an alternate referee for that game, Tim also received these instructions."Not allowing Yao to set those ridiculous moving screens he had been getting away with for so long was unfair?

[ronnymac]

Can Rockets or Mavs fans that specifically watched all the games in that series cite some specific examples of the egregious calls in that series? I would really like to see them.
Besides the Finley call, watch the holding of yao's arms when he was posting up. dampier at times would clearly grab yao's non-shooting hand when yao was trying to catch the ball in the post. i watched ever game of that series. there was alot od bull****e no calls. mcgrady was getting murderd off the ball. Stackhouse and marquis daniels were playing some really illegal off the ball defense. it was attrocious.

[Revelation]

Judging by his numbers in that series, T-Mac didn't seem to notice:

Tracy Mcgrady:
30.7ppg, 7.4reb, 6.7ast, 46 FG%, 55.6 TS%, 27.2 PER

[vert48]

It seems that the official NBA version and Stern's version is that they had to call fouls on Yao when he set screens. This was to start with game 3 of the series. However, Donaghy was asked to clarify if they were to ref Yao differently prior to the series start.

The question of was there smoke and he said "not smoke but a blaze". So I'm not sure what to make of this. It seems starting with game 3 that the refs were supposed to call fouls on Yao's screens, but before the series began they were to single him out also.

Again, we need Rockets and Mavs fans to explain what happened exactly in that series.I am not a Rocket or Mav fan, but Yao's screens were blatant. I absolutely believe that Stern told the refs to start calling illegal screens on Yao, and am glad he did.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Lol at this clown Tim Donaghy manipulating everyone. He's trying to get money and benefit his case/word digging into past quotes and controversial games. He heard JVGs comments years back and is now saying the series in itself was fixed...All he's doing is trying to make his 'word' cleaner by giving you fallacies. Don't feed into the conspiracy beast.

Read the ESPN article on Donaughy and how is claims were totally debunked -- point shaving, etc

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11340/tim-donaghys-claims-on-trial

Why would Van Gundy also make that up?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Ya'll are incredibly gullable. Unreal. So thats all it takes? For one mofo looking to make $$ on a book to start making stuff up for everyone to start beleiving him over the US government and the FBI who found no illegal activity going on other than with this ONE ref?


All he did was to look at games/series with controversial endings and add his two cents - DUH!!!

Unreal.

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/11340/tim-donaghys-claims-on-trial

Read that please.

SMDH :lol

ESPN has a multi-billion dollar a year media contract with the NBA. We are supposed to take their word on this when they have billions of dollars at stake in keeping the public believing everything from the official NBA side? Who is the gullible one here?

Also the federal investigation only focused on fixing from outside the game. As in the mob and betting side and what Donaghy was doing with the illegal gambling and how it related to the Gambino crime family. It did not include looking into fixing from inside the game - as in the NBA itself ordering the refs to manipulate games based on how they would call the games. That was not part of the FBI investigation.

And you should consider how that ESPN article does not mention that or that ESPN has a multi-billion partnership with the NBA either.

[Hawker]

will congress get involved like they did steroids? i hope so...

No they should not. They have bigger things to worry about.

[icemanfan]

ESPN has a multi-billion dollar a year media contract with the NBA. We are supposed to take their word on this when they have billions of dollars at stake in keeping the public believing everything from the official NBA side? Who is the gullible one here?
watch out , using logic on ISH can get you banned.

[catch24]

Why would Van Gundy also make that up?

Make what up? That they ref Yao differently? Maybe it's taken out of context. Why would I believe someone who is currently out of a job and is in desperate need for cash. The artice/blog I posted isn't ridiculous either. Debunks many, many, many claims that dbag spewed.

[ShaqAttack3234]

No they should not. They have bigger things to worry about.

Yeah, Congress questioning players about steroid use a decade ago was perhaps the most ridiculous sports-related thing I've ever seen

[ronnymac]

I will say it probaly didnt effect the whole series because we lost by 40 in dallas, but it really should have never gone to 7 games anyway. the mavs won and now it's history. no point rehashing it. fixed or not, it's done and dusted with.

[gts]

Lol at this clown Tim Donaghy manipulating everyone. He's trying to get money and benefit his case/word digging into past quotes and controversial games. He heard JVGs comments years back and is now saying the series in itself was fixed...All he's doing is trying to make his 'word' cleaner by giving you fallacies. Don't feed into the conspiracy beast.

Read the ESPN article on Donaughy and how is claims were totally debunked -- point shaving, etc

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11340/tim-donaghys-claims-on-trial why anyone would give this guy the time of day is beyond me.. the man has lied used inside information to his own benefit, attempted to throw colleagues under the bus, been investigated, imprisoned and yet he writes a book and folks "oh look, the nba is rigged, the convict says it's true"

then you have all these folks he's pointing fingers at, people that have never been accused (except by him) when investigated by the fbi there was nothing to back up his claims against these people yet folks are still quick to jump on the donaghy bandwagon...

i'm not saying that everything he says is a lie, all good liars add a shread of truth to their lies to make them beliveable but i'm certainly not gonna put one penny in this guys pocket or am i going to indict the league based on his word... a word that has been found to be full of crap already

[justin43]

why anyone would give this guy the time of day is beyond me.. the man has lied used inside information to his own benefit, attempted to throw colleagues under the bus, been investigated, imprisoned and yet he writes a book and folks "oh look, the nba is rigged, the convict says it's true"

then you have all these folks he's pointing fingers at, people that have never been accused (except by him) when investigated by the fbi there was nothing to back up his claims against these people yet folks are still quick to jump on the donaghy bandwagon...

i'm not saying that everything he says is a lie, all good liars add a shread of truth to their lies to make them beliveable but i'm certainly not gonna put one penny in this guys pocket or am i going to indict the league based on his word... a word that has been found to be full of crap already

:applause: Good read.:pimp:

[Lakas Fan Yo]

I am not a Rocket or Mav fan, but Yao's screens were blatant. I absolutely believe that Stern told the refs to start calling illegal screens on Yao, and am glad he did.

You seem to miss the point entirely. Before the series began they were to single Yao out and then only after Dallas lost the first two games and Cuban complained did they start with the screens. That's the point, the NBA and Stern's official version of the story leaves out the singling Yao out before the series started. It also leaves out that it is being said that game 5 was specially targeted as well.

In other words, the NBA and the screens thing is like a smoke screen. Which makes sense why Stern got so angry when Van Gundy brought it up that Jackson told him about it in secret and without Stern's permission. Because if it was really so innocent then the Rockets would have been properly informed about it. The league would inform them not to let Yao move on any screen.

But you see now when questions about fixing games come up, people like you go "all they did was call an illegal screen on Yao". Which is exactly the way they want people to respond - which eliminates these same people wanting to find out about the before the series started singling Yao out or about what happened in game 5.

And there is that example of the refs giving the ball to Dallas and ensuring they won game 5. Look for yourself,

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/lazenby19691969/05_05_02_vs_mavericks.jpg

I am trying to find the video of this on youtube, but interestingly enough, I am having a hard time because the videos keep saying "this video has been removed due to violations of terms of service".

Strange, that is if the NBA has nothing to hide. If any Rockets fans have video of that call then please post it.

[oh the horror]

why anyone would give this guy the time of day is beyond me.. the man has lied used inside information to his own benefit, attempted to throw colleagues under the bus, been investigated, imprisoned and yet he writes a book and folks "oh look, the nba is rigged, the convict says it's true"

then you have all these folks he's pointing fingers at, people that have never been accused (except by him) when investigated by the fbi there was nothing to back up his claims against these people yet folks are still quick to jump on the donaghy bandwagon...

i'm not saying that everything he says is a lie, all good liars add a shread of truth to their lies to make them beliveable but i'm certainly not gonna put one penny in this guys pocket or am i going to indict the league based on his word... a word that has been found to be full of crap already



Maybe its because they WANT to believe him. It confirms their own suspicions.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Ya'll are incredibly gullable. Unreal. So thats all it takes? For one mofo looking to make $$ on a book to start making stuff up for everyone to start beleiving him over the US government and the FBI who found no illegal activity going on other than with this ONE ref?


All he did was to look at games/series with controversial endings and add his two cents - DUH!!!

Unreal.

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/11340/tim-donaghys-claims-on-trial

Read that please.

SMDH :lol
The NBA itself was not included in Tim's case. Anyways, this just adds more fuel to the fire of refs treating certain players differently. That alone can effect games.

[catch24]

why anyone would give this guy the time of day is beyond me.. the man has lied used inside information to his own benefit, attempted to throw colleagues under the bus, been investigated, imprisoned and yet he writes a book and folks "oh look, the nba is rigged, the convict says it's true"

then you have all these folks he's pointing fingers at, people that have never been accused (except by him) when investigated by the fbi there was nothing to back up his claims against these people yet folks are still quick to jump on the donaghy bandwagon...

i'm not saying that everything he says is a lie, all good liars add a shread of truth to their lies to make them beliveable but i'm certainly not gonna put one penny in this guys pocket or am i going to indict the league based on his word... a word that has been found to be full of crap already

Pretty much summed it up there.

[icemanfan]

Make what up? That they ref Yao differently? Maybe it's taken out of context. Why would I believe someone who is currently out of a job and is in desperate need for cash. The artice/blog I posted isn't ridiculous either. Debunks many, many, many claims that dbag spewed.
taken out of context? No not at all. I remember when the NBA fined him for saying it and it was said to the press prior to the game. No out of context. He said the hid friend who was a ref called him and told him an order had come down to ref Yao differently.

[triangleoffense]

This will only feed conspiracy theories. I don't like these developments in the slightest. I can already picture some people claiming that the NBA is nothing more than the WWE, which is false. I sense some deception and half-truths in his statements. I am sure that the refs have personal biases and that they sometimes miss calls, but to say that they did it on purpose is another matter.

At this point I think it's beyond a conspiracy theory. The part that puzzles me the most is that the FBI has repeatedly stated that they have found no evidence of game fixing by Donaghy. Well if there's no evidence then what did the man get set to prison for? Gambling?

[gts]

Maybe its because they WANT to believe him. It confirms their own suspicions.that's fair enough.. my question then is why watch the games if a person truly thinks the games are rigged? why waste the time on the sport...

[triangleoffense]

that's fair enough.. my question then is why watch the games if a person truly thinks the games are rigged? why waste the time on the sport...

because the NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL pretty much have monopolys on all the professional level sports in America, much less the world. As far as I know the ABA was merged 30+ years ago.

[oh the horror]

that's fair enough.. my question then is why watch the games if a person truly thinks the games are rigged? why waste the time on the sport...


Thats the million dollar question right there. I have no idea why some people complain to the degree that they do, yet still watch.

[IcanzIIravor]

why anyone would give this guy the time of day is beyond me.. the man has lied used inside information to his own benefit, attempted to throw colleagues under the bus, been investigated, imprisoned and yet he writes a book and folks "oh look, the nba is rigged, the convict says it's true"

then you have all these folks he's pointing fingers at, people that have never been accused (except by him) when investigated by the fbi there was nothing to back up his claims against these people yet folks are still quick to jump on the donaghy bandwagon...

i'm not saying that everything he says is a lie, all good liars add a shread of truth to their lies to make them beliveable but i'm certainly not gonna put one penny in this guys pocket or am i going to indict the league based on his word... a word that has been found to be full of crap already

I agree with this. I think people just want to believe every conspiracy theory.

[praneel]

why anyone would give this guy the time of day is beyond me.. the man has lied used inside information to his own benefit, attempted to throw colleagues under the bus, been investigated, imprisoned and yet he writes a book and folks "oh look, the nba is rigged, the convict says it's true"

then you have all these folks he's pointing fingers at, people that have never been accused (except by him) when investigated by the fbi there was nothing to back up his claims against these people yet folks are still quick to jump on the donaghy bandwagon...

i'm not saying that everything he says is a lie, all good liars add a shread of truth to their lies to make them beliveable but i'm certainly not gonna put one penny in this guys pocket or am i going to indict the league based on his word... a word that has been found to be full of crap already

I like how you put that statement. But before Donaghy, did anyone else think the game was somehow "rigged?" There are some grumblings about certains series' that people can't get their minds around. But I don't think it is far fetched to believe this guy is being honest about somethings.

Remeber Jose Canseco? Didn't no one believe this guy? He got busted, and then the truth came out. He called out names, and most of the names were later verified.

Maybe I'm just a Stern hater, and I do mean "hate" him. The guy is a napoleonic jerk off. But I do believe some of the things Donaghy says. I do also believe he is lying about the amount of $ he made and that he didn't "influence" games. But some of the stuff can plausable for me to believe.

[Dizzle-2k7]

Thats the million dollar question right there. I have no idea why some people complain to the degree that they do, yet still watch.

HOPE...

HOPE that we can have a perfect league, with the perfect system.. where players go out and play their hardest and dont have to worry about the powers that be (refs, commissioners, illuminati)..

If you play basketball, you know how wonderful the sport can be... now multiply that feeling by 100 when watching the greatest athletes in the world play it and you know how great it can really be..

however, that HOPE is deferred when things like this get in the way.. why must we deal with this? We SHOULDNT. So by keeping our HOPE alive, we can maybe.. just maybe, fight this thing and eventually turn this SPORT back to a SPORT and away from a business.

HOPE!

[LAClipsFan33]

Thats the million dollar question right there. I have no idea why some people complain to the degree that they do, yet still watch.

It's the game I grew up watching and love to watch even though the current state of the NBA disappoints me. I don't watch baseball, I don't watch hockey...what else will I watch outside of football season ?

[praneel]

that's fair enough.. my question then is why watch the games if a person truly thinks the games are rigged? why waste the time on the sport...


I watch because I love it to an undeniable degree. IF bball was not not apart of my life, I believe I would have a less fulfilling life (sad I know).

I also watch WWE sometimes too... :lol Less now than when I was a kid though, when it was real wrestling.

Bret "The Hitman" Hart! Sporting Pink and all!

[praneel]

And you should consider how that ESPN article does not mention that or that ESPN has a multi-billion partnership with the NBA either.


Usually with a valid argument, one side should at least state their affiliation with the party in question. Whenever ABC does a story about Disney, the have to put a qualifier like "Disney is the partent co. of ABC"

I do feel like this ESPN story is an attempt to stop the fire storm.

But it is not like anything will happen. The NBA will continue to do whatever they want (dress code, age limit, no tipping ref attendants, etc.)

Stern is the dictator, and the NBA has prospered, why change it now. Until he looses him mind, or does something that is completely going to hurt the NBA image (i.e. games are indeed "massaged" by someone in power) Even if it is not completely fair.

On a side note, I do think there are some NBA officials on this site monitoring things. Just a week or so ago someone made a thread Diana Turasi could play in the NBA, this week Stern comes out with the comment that a woman can be in the L in 10 years. Coincidence, probably. But I'm a conspiracy theorist. (JFK was killed by the USA, Space landing was a hoax, aliens do exist, NBA draft is fixed, on and on. Disagree if you like, but that is what I think)

[catch24]

taken out of context? No not at all. I remember when the NBA fined him for saying it and it was said to the press prior to the game. No out of context. He said the hid friend who was a ref called him and told him an order had come down to ref Yao differently.

You do realize "Reffing Yao differently" can also mean keep an "eye out" or watch him SPECIFICALLY on certain ends of the floor? Like Mavs fans and other posters pointed out, Yao was setting illegal picks (moving on screens). The quote alone doesn't necessarily mean a negative. Think outside the box for a minute.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

You do realize "Reffing Yao differently" can also mean keep an "eye out" or watch him SPECIFICALLY on certain ends of the floor? Like Mavs fans and other posters pointed out, Yao was setting illegal picks (moving on screens). The quote alone doesn't necessarily mean a negative. Think outside the box for a minute.

So why would Mavs players be allowed to set illegal screens and not get called for fouls? Rockets fans have indicated that was the case.

[catch24]

So why would Mavs players be allowed to set illegal screens and not get called for fouls? Rockets fans have indicated that was the case.

I'm not a ref, I couldn't tell you. As I said, referees aren't perfect and will never be able to please both teams definition on what a foul is and isn't.

[icemanfan]

You do realize "Reffing Yao differently" can also mean keep an "eye out" or watch him SPECIFICALLY on certain ends of the floor? Like Mavs fans and other posters pointed out, Yao was setting illegal picks (moving on screens). The quote alone doesn't necessarily mean a negative. Think outside the box for a minute.
if you , as a ref , are instructed to change the way you ref just one single player in a playoff series then by definition either the series was fixed before the change or after you can not have it any other way. If you were correcting them from not properly calling his play then you were fixing the games for the rockets. If you were cracking down on him, singling him out because mark cubans purssy hurt again for 1,000,000 time then you rigged the series for the Mavs.

[icemanfan]

Dick Bavetta was actually the one ref the investigation was started over and the one they expected to catch dirty.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3439554

not to mention the four refs who did time for tax fraud in the late 90's who were reinstated when they got out of prison. What did they have on the NBA that would cause the NBA to risk its rep by highering convicts to ref games?

[Xsatyr]

I'm not a ref, I couldn't tell you. As I said, referees aren't perfect and will never be able to please both teams definition on what a foul is and isn't.

I suggest you not comment bc it is apparent you did not watch the series. Dampier was putting two hands on Yao while posting and grabbing his non shooting arm on hooks shots. Mavericks set plenty of moving screens as well but Yao was singled out. Also not to mention the horrible calls being made in the final minutes in consecutive games.

[justin43]

if you , as a ref , are instructed to change the way you ref just one single player in a playoff series then by definition either the series was fixed before the change or after you can not have it any other way. If you were correcting them from not properly calling his play then you were fixing the games for the rockets. If you were cracking down on him, singling him out because mark cubans purssy hurt again for 1,000,000 time then you rigged the series for the Mavs.

That is a very extreme viewpoint. First, refs can NEVER truly control the game to the point that they can fix games. Coaches complain to the refs all the time for missed calls. Human nature would be to watch more careful for the foul. I doubt even the refs like to miss calls. They probably kick themselves in the head each time a replay is shown with them missing a potenial call that could have change the outcome of the game. Is this what you call fixing?:confusedshrug:

[catch24]

if you , as a ref , are instructed to change the way you ref just one single player in a playoff series then by definition either the series was fixed before the change or after you can not have it any other way. If you were correcting them from not properly calling his play then you were fixing the games for the rockets. If you were cracking down on him, singling him out because mark cubans purssy hurt again for 1,000,000 time then you rigged the series for the Mavs.

Oh really? So if a player is committing constant illegal fouls and the refs miss it, they can't go out of there way to see game footage and make sure it doesn't happen as often if not at all? This would be called fixed in your opinion? Get some perspective, Christ.

[icemanfan]

I'm not a ref, I couldn't tell you. As I said, referees aren't perfect and will never be able to please both teams definition on what a foul is and isn't.
all teams want the same thing, Consistancy. If its foul on this end it should be a foul on that end. PERIOD

[icemanfan]

Oh really? So if a player is committing constant illegal fouls and the refs miss it, they can't go out of there way to see game footage and make sure it doesn't happen as often if not at all? This would be called fixed in your opinion? Get some perspective, Christ.
#1 my name is not Christ
#2 this was three games into the series when they were ordered by the league to change the way they called one player. That is fixing no matter how you dress it up where you tell it to stand and how much you try to make it pretty.
#3 The head of the refs thought it so important he risked his job to let Van Gundy know. So...................you think?

[catch24]

I suggest you not comment bc it is apparent you did not watch the series. Dampier was putting two hands on Yao while posting and grabbing his non shooting arm on hooks shots. Mavericks set plenty of moving screens as well but Yao was singled out. Also not to mention the horribles calls being made in the final minutes in consecutive games.

Oh look, another salty Rockets fan. Actually I watched the game and series. So commenting would be fair game...Sorry I'm not PRO-Houston.

[gyu]

How was Yao ref'd differently?
Differently than they had been reffing him?
Differently than they were reffing other players?
Calling things that had not been called in the past, but should have?
Making up bogus calls?
Not from the series but these are good examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd0w-N_Ryic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBe9SP2O0C0&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnsP4gY-zl0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi55kwI8B3w

[icemanfan]

Oh look, another salty Rockets fan. Actually I watched the game and series. So commenting would be fair game...Sorry I'm not PRO-Houston.
so you did not acknowledge his post just dropped in piss a little? The man made a valid point. If you have a great counter point go to town with it. If not admit you were wrong, take your lumps like a man and shut the **** up.

[catch24]

#1 my name is not Christ
#2 this was three games into the series when they were ordered by the league to change the way they called one player. That is fixing no matter how you dress it up where you tell it to stand and how much you try to make it pretty.
#3 I am not a rocket fan but I am a fan of the truth. Perrhaps you should try it sometime you might like it.

#1 You're a tool.

#2 They are allowed to go back and watch gameplay of what they missed to, well...correct their mistakes.

#3 That's awesome, but so am I. While you're slurping every Donaghy states (a con), I'm looking at it from both sides -- what everyone should do.

[Xsatyr]

Oh look, another salty Rockets fan. Actually I watched the game and series. So commenting would be fair game...Sorry I'm not PRO-Houston.
You did not watch the series so quit lying. Your point about officiating Yao is moot bc the call was not being made on the other end.

[catch24]

so you did not acknowledge his post just dropped in piss a little? The man made a valid point. If you have a great counter point go to town with it. If not admit you were wrong, take your lumps like a man and shut the **** up.

Wrong about what? The f*ck are you talking about? :oldlol:

[Sonics4Life]

IMPEACH STERN!!!!! :mad: :no: :applause:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/abrjam/SGPoster_smaller.jpg

[icemanfan]

#1 You're a tool.

#2 They are allowed to go back and watch gameplay of what they missed to, well...correct their mistakes.

#3 That's awesome, but so am I. While you're slurping every Donaghy states (a con), I'm looking at it from both sides -- what everyone should do.
by definition you can not correct a past mistake in a sports game. It has past and only the present exists.

[gts]

#2 this was three games into the series when they were ordered by the league to change the way they called one player. That is fixing no matter how you dress it up where you tell it to stand and how much you try to make it pretty.
how is that an absolute? just beacuse the nba sees refs are missing some calls and want's some adjustments made doesn't mean the fix is in, it can also be seen as a sign of integrity that maybe the league watched the game tape realized yao was getting away with murder out there and how he was being reffed and it needed to be cleared up... it doesn't have to be a fix it's righting a wrong call...

[Xsatyr]

by definition you can not correct a past mistake in a sports game. It has past and only the present exists.

I think it is fine but they would have to make the call on both ends which they were not. That is why JVG made his public statements about Yao being singled out.

[icemanfan]

as for your con comment the NBA re-hired four former refs who were convicted of tax fraud and did time for it. If the NBA had no problem with convects then why the change of heart now? What did those refs have on the NBA that got them their jobs back?

[ChuckOakley]

Oh look, another salty Rockets fan. Actually I watched the game and series. So commenting would be fair game...Sorry I'm not PRO-Houston.

Oh look, another Lakers fan.

Perhaps Houston fans are a little sensitive on the subject since their team and their player was potentially singled out and a target of this "fix"?

And, perhaps LA fans are a little sensitive on the subject because if true it takes away from their titles some given all the preferntial treatment stars like Kobe and Shaq have seemingly received for years.

[Xsatyr]

how is that an absolute? just beacuse the nba sees refs are missing some calls and want's some adjustments made doesn't mean the fix is in, it can also be seen as a sign of integrity that maybe the league watched the game tape realized yao was getting away with murder out there and how he was being reffed and it needed to be cleared up... it doesn't have to be a fix it's righting a wrong call...
See my post above, you have to call it at both ends...

[icemanfan]

how is that an absolute? just beacuse the nba sees refs are missing some calls and want's some adjustments made doesn't mean the fix is in, it can also be seen as a sign of integrity that maybe the league watched the game tape realized yao was getting away with murder out there and how he was being reffed and it needed to be cleared up... it doesn't have to be a fix it's righting a wrong call...
yes it was completely above board that is why Stu Jackson called Van Gundy to let him know because it was going to be an even thing at both ends of the floor and Van Gundy had nothing to worry about that is why he called to say you got nothing to worry about...........................:wtf:
RIGHT.

[catch24]

You did not watch the series so quit lying. Your point about officiating Yao is moot bc the call was not being made on the other end.

Yes of course I'm lying, you know me dude. Only on ISH, f'n clowns. Officiating on Yao isn't moot. If an owner demanded and claimed their star player was using illegal pics/fouls, the refs are going to look into it. Simple as that. I'm not debating if the Mavs committed illegal screens themselves etc...Yao was singled out due to him being a superstar player and an owner (well known himself) called him and the league out. Not saying that it's right, but I really do believe it went down this way.

[catch24]

by definition you can not correct a past mistake in a sports game. It has past and only the present exists.

Of course you can't correct your mistakes in a past game. You can with a future game(s).

[oh the horror]

Oh look, another Lakers fan.

Perhaps Houston fans are a little sensitive on the subject since their team and their player was potentially singled out and a target of this "fix"?

And, perhaps LA fans are a little sensitive on the subject because if true it takes away from their titles some given all the preferntial treatment stars like Kobe and Shaq have seemingly received for years.


So basically you're getting upset, and am now resorting to that?

[Rekindled]

IMPEACH STERN!!!!! :mad: :no: :applause:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/abrjam/SGPoster_smaller.jpg

hey man. would it possible to put a film about stern corrupting the nba. I would really like him to resign.

[catch24]

Oh look, another Lakers fan.

Perhaps Houston fans are a little sensitive on the subject since their team and their player was potentially singled out and a target of this "fix"?

And, perhaps LA fans are a little sensitive on the subject because if true it takes away from their titles some given all the preferntial treatment stars like Kobe and Shaq have seemingly received for years.

The sole reason I called that poster salty was because him saying "I didn't watch the series".

[gts]

yes it was completely above board that is why Stu Jackson called Van Gundy to let him know because it was going to be an even thing at both ends of the floor and Van Gundy had nothing to worry about that is why he called to say you got nothing to worry about...........................:wtf:
RIGHT.way i understand it it was a ref, not stu jackson...

and even if it was jackson what's your point... van gundy was warned that yao was going to be called for fouls he had been getting away with.. still no sign of a fix...

the league sends people/memos to the teams every year before the season and before the playoffs to tell the coaches/players what fouls will be watched more closely... this type of communication between teams and the league is nothing new

[ChuckOakley]

So basically you're getting upset, and am now resorting to that?
Huh?

No, I was speaking to a Laker fan responding to a Houston fan.

Those are the two fan bases dominating this thread (I'm a fan of neither).
I wasn't sure what he meant by his comment, so I was pointing out why both sides seem to be so sensitive to this subject.

[Sonics4Life]

hey man. would it possible to put a film about stern corrupting the nba. I would really like him to resign.

that is definitely possible, we already made Volume 1 in Sonicsgate. :oldlol:

if someone wants to fund it we will produce it.

[sergiorodriguez]

Series I'm 90% sure were rigged are
07 Suns-Spurs
02 Kings-Lakers
02 Kings-Mavericks
03TWolves-Lakers
98 Jazz-Bulls
I dont really think the 06 finals were rigged, the Heat had been getting those calls during the regular season too.
ill give you the rest, but we didn't need the officials help to beat the t-wolves:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: that **** was TOO easy

[gts]

See my post above, you have to call it at both ends...how many fouls were called against yao in the series and how many against damp?

edit nevermind got it.. 31 fouls were called on yao 30 on damp in that series

[ChuckOakley]

that is definitely possible, we already made Volume 1 in Sonicsgate. :oldlol:

if someone wants to fund it we will produce it.

Good luck with that.

Regardless his protege Adam Silver will be no better.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

how is that an absolute? just beacuse the nba sees refs are missing some calls and want's some adjustments made doesn't mean the fix is in, it can also be seen as a sign of integrity that maybe the league watched the game tape realized yao was getting away with murder out there and how he was being reffed and it needed to be cleared up... it doesn't have to be a fix it's righting a wrong call...

Not when the Mavs players were allowed to set illegal screens also. This is not rocket science. Why is it so hard for some people to see problems with this? Especially after Cuban complained. Look what 60 minutes said...........

That the NBA refs screwed up a bunch of calls on Kobe (which means they are incompetent), that the Lakers *****ed about it and then they insured Kobe would go to the foul line if anyone looked at him wrong (which means they also play favorites AND rig certain games for the purposes of make-up calls) in the following games.

Yet fans think this is acceptable?

[vert48]

#1 my name is not Christ
#2 this was three games into the series when they were ordered by the league to change the way they called one player. That is fixing no matter how you dress it up where you tell it to stand and how much you try to make it pretty.
#3 The head of the refs thought it so important he risked his job to let Van Gundy know. So...................you think?The NBA should absolutely tell the refs to watch for something like Yao's ridiculous moving screens. They should do it before the series, after games, at halftime, and during timeouts if necessary.
Jackson called Van Gundy to let him know that they were going to enforce the rule, not to warn him that things were being fixed. It was a courtesy call. I would expect the same call to Mike Brown if the League decided to crack down on LeBron's traveling.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

way i understand it it was a ref, not stu jackson...

and even if it was jackson what's your point... van gundy was warned that yao was going to be called for fouls he had been getting away with.. still no sign of a fix...

the league sends people/memos to the teams every year before the season and before the playoffs to tell the coaches/players what fouls will be watched more closely... this type of communication between teams and the league is nothing new

The memos said that the person in charge of the refs (that was known to be Jackson's job) was instructed by an unknown league executive (I will let others speculate on whom that could possibly be - but a hint is that Stern was Jackson's boss) to send the refs the orders.

Just because the NBA did not name who these people were does not mean that we should bury our heads in the sands when it is fairly obvious who they were.

Also, the league did NOT inform Van Gundy or the Rockets about it at all. Are you confused here? Van Gundy was informed secretly by Jackson (a personal friend) about it, without Stern's permission. That was why Stern went so crazy when Van Gundy told that to the press.

You seem to be confused about what is being discussed here.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

why anyone would give this guy the time of day is beyond me.. the man has lied used inside information to his own benefit, attempted to throw colleagues under the bus, been investigated, imprisoned and yet he writes a book and folks "oh look, the nba is rigged, the convict says it's true"

then you have all these folks he's pointing fingers at, people that have never been accused (except by him) when investigated by the fbi there was nothing to back up his claims against these people yet folks are still quick to jump on the donaghy bandwagon...

i'm not saying that everything he says is a lie, all good liars add a shread of truth to their lies to make them beliveable but i'm certainly not gonna put one penny in this guys pocket or am i going to indict the league based on his word... a word that has been found to be full of crap already

now give us some reasons why we shouldn't believe what jeff van gundy said..

[catch24]

SMH at some of the loony posts.

[LAClipsFan33]

ill give you the rest, but we didn't need the officials help to beat the t-wolves:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: that **** was TOO easy

Which it was why it was so bad...it was like killing an ant with a hammer. T-Wolves couldn't get not one break, but would have lost the series even if it was fair

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Huh?

No, I was speaking to a Laker fan responding to a Houston fan.

Those are the two fan bases dominating this thread (I'm a fan of neither).
I wasn't sure what he meant by his comment, so I was pointing out why both sides seem to be so sensitive to this subject.

Yep, even though I am a Lakers fan and all the stuff being said about the Kings-Lakers series I can't defend this crap by the NBA. I don't think you are a real fan if you blindly defend this stuff just because your team benefits from it. But unfortunately that seems to be how many NBA fans are.

And the bad thing about that is that if big market teams like say the Lakers are benefiting from this kind of stuff then the added benefit for the NBA is that if fans are going to be such homers to support it as long as their team wins then that means that the people agreeing with the NBA will greatly outnumber those angry with it.

Think about it, LA's fan base is HUGE compared to the Kings fan base, which is like the perfect way for Stern and the NBA to get away with it because the majority public position is to not only let it go, but to support it as long as the majority team (Lakers) wins.

To me REAL basketball fans, whether you are a Lakers fan, or in this particular case a Mavs fan, or not, if you are a real true fan you will not just blindly take the NBA's word on this stuff with so many things not adding up.

[The_Yearning]

The memos said that the person in charge of the refs (that was known to be Jackson's job) was instructed by an unknown league executive (I will let others speculate on whom that could possibly be - but a hint is that Stern was Jackson's boss) to send the refs the orders.

Just because the NBA did not name who these people were does not mean that we should bury our heads in the sands when it is fairly obvious who they were.

Also, the league did NOT inform Van Gundy or the Rockets about it at all. Are you confused here? Van Gundy was informed secretly by Jackson (a personal friend) about it, without Stern's permission. That was why Stern went so crazy when Van Gundy told that to the press.

You seem to be confused about what is being discussed here.

**** N!gga so why nothing happenend to stu jackson? why he fined van gundy? should of fired jackson. stu jackson is black right?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

how many fouls were called against yao in the series and how many against damp?

edit nevermind got it.. 31 fouls were called on yao 30 on damp in that series

That's not even an argument.

[gts]

now give us some reasons why we shouldn't believe what jeff van gundy said.. who says van gundy was lying?

the nba is constantly in communication with teams and coaches about these things.. this is nothing new... the league sees refs are missing certain calls or calling things too tight and triesto make adjustments... some want to see this as a bad thing.... while in fact it can also be viewed as the league trying to do the right thing within the framework of it's rule set...

this is a hard game to ref lots of things going on at one time and only 3 guys trying to see it all.. they will miss somethings and it will have to be brought to their attention

[catch24]

Yep, even though I am a Lakers fan and all the stuff being said about the Kings-Lakers series I can't defend this crap by the NBA. I don't think you are a real fan if you blindly defend this stuff just because your team benefits from it. But unfortunately that seems to be how many NBA fans are.

And the bad thing about that is that if big market teams like say the Lakers are benefiting from this kind of stuff then the added benefit for the NBA is that if fans are going to be such homers to support it as long as their team wins then that means that the people agreeing with the NBA will greatly outnumber those angry with it.

Think about it, LA's fan base is HUGE compared to the Kings fan base, which is like the perfect way for Stern and the NBA to get away with it because the majority public position is to not only let it go, but to support it as long as the majority team (Lakers) wins.

To me REAL basketball fans, whether you are a Lakers fan, or in this particular case a Mavs fan, or not, if you are a real true fan you will not just blindly take the NBA's word on this stuff with so many things not adding up.

You're retarded.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The NBA should absolutely tell the refs to watch for something like Yao's ridiculous moving screens. They should do it before the series, after games, at halftime, and during timeouts if necessary.
Jackson called Van Gundy to let him know that they were going to enforce the rule, not to warn him that things were being fixed. It was a courtesy call. I would expect the same call to Mike Brown if the League decided to crack down on LeBron's traveling.

No. Jackson called him to warn him about it and that the league would not inform the Rockets formally of it. Van Gundy told the press that and was personally threatened on the air by Stern with being fired and was then fined $100,000 - the biggest fine in NBA history.

What you are saying makes no sense at all. Why in hell would the NBA fine Van Gundy $100,000 for simply saying what the league officially said itself? Do you even realize that when that happens that the in-game announcers are also informed about it and so are the sideline reporters? ESPN and TNT know about that stuff the same way.

So if it was really as you say it was Van Gundy would not have been threatened with being fired and fined $100,000. It's amazing how some people do not even find that odd.

[The_Yearning]

NBA always hatin on the real N!GGAS like JVG, STVG, and Avery Johnson.

[vert48]

No. Jackson called him to warn him about it and that the league would not inform the Rockets formally of it. Van Gundy told the press that and was personally threatened on the air by Stern with being fired and was then fined $100,00 - the biggest fine in NBA history.

What you are saying makes no sense at all. Why in hell would the NBA fine Van Gundy $100,000 for simply saying what the league officially said itself? Do you even realize that when that happens that the in-game announcers are also informed about it and so are the sideline reporters? ESPN and TNT know about that stuff the same way.

So if it was really as you say it was Van Gundy would not have been threatened with being fired and fined $100,000. It's amazing how some people do not even find that odd.I did not say that the league was informing the Rockets. I said that Stu made a courtesy call to Jeff, warning him that the refs were going to crack down on the illegal screens Yao was setting. If there was any fixing going on, that was it - Stu's call to help out Jeff.

[catch24]

JVG: "First of all, what I said was an NBA official, so I didn't in any manner try to impune an NBA referee. What I said I thought to be true. I did it in the wrong way, at the wrong time, in the wrong form, instead of going to the league office. But what I basically said Mike, I felt to be true -- that Yao was unfairly targeted, but uhm, I don't want to give any credit to what Tim Donaghy says in totality, because he has proven himself to be wrong, proven himself to have done things to go against the best interest of the game, and has really harmed NBA officiating because he has put so many things into question."

He then states his feelings on how the team that's being "targeted against" and that is, that they should be notified, immediately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0zm1jZjT6s

[dyna]

So this is the year of Lebron vs Kobe in the finals??
Stern??
:confusedshrug:

[LAClipsFan33]

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nyu69Oj1q4

By the looks of this Donaghy wasn't the only one betting

[Agent_Zero]

nothin else to say except that this **** is ****ed up

[brantonli]

This has probably already been posted but...

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/stuff/cf_officials_nba_site.jpg

courtesy of Clutch of the BBS.

[NBASTATMAN]

will this be the end of the road for mr. stern?



Stern's A POS.... The NBA's cred has long been questioned... I actually believe a lot of the things TIM has stated...

[NBASTATMAN]

So this is the year of Lebron vs Kobe in the finals??
Stern??
:confusedshrug:


If Lebron gets to the finals I will be amazed.. No way he gets his team past the celtics ... They are the only contender to the lakers... Nuggets would be a real contender if they could get a big with a versatile game.. Their bigs are all one dimensional...

[eliteballer]

...why would Stern want a team in the 4th biggest market in the country with two cash cow stars like T-Mac and Yao to NOT advance?

[KAJ=GOAT]

Series I'm 90% sure were rigged are
07 Suns-Spurs
02 Kings-Lakers
02 Kings-Mavericks
03TWolves-Lakers
98 Jazz-Bulls
I dont really think the 06 finals were rigged, the Heat had been getting those calls during the regular season too.
yup, that game 3 is very fishy.


35 freethrows for the Kings,

to only 15 for the Lakers.

That game was definitely made for the Kings to win.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

...why would Stern want a team in the 4th biggest market in the country with two cash cow stars like T-Mac and Yao to NOT advance?

that is a god damn good point. but i am not completely sure that was the entire point of gundys rant.

[monkeypox]

It's funny how almost every incident he mentions happens to be one that people have already been talking about. It's also funny how the league telling refs to watch Yao becomes a conspiracy to manipulate games. As if the referees aren't told all the time to watch for certain things based on the review of previous games.

[TheGreatDeraj]

First off, I don't believe Donaghy.

But, why would Stern, want to ref Yao unfairly? Yao is chinese, and Stern has been trying to expand the NBA into Europe and China. I'm sure Stern would love Yao to win a championship and make the NBA even more popular in China.

Donaghy is just talking about well known controversial games, so people will believe him... especially the fans of teams that lost and who are just dying to hear there team was unfairly treated.

[vert48]

yup, that game 3 is very fishy.


35 freethrows for the Kings,

to only 15 for the Lakers.

That game was definitely made for the Kings to win.Yep, the refs gave the Kings at least 2, if not all 3 of their wins that series. Worst fix in NBA history.

[eliteballer]

Kings actually shot more FT's in that series than the Lakers and the game with the biggest difference in FT's between the teams was where the Kings shot more.

[eliteballer]

...why would Stern want a team in the 4th biggest market in the country with two cash cow stars like T-Mac and Yao to NOT advance?

Answers please, unless Stern wanted a white superstar(Dirk) to advance?:rolleyes:

[ConanRulesNBC]

Damn. This is so messed up. David Stern needs to go and the NBA needs a complete image change.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Answers please, unless Stern wanted a white superstar(Dirk) to advance?:rolleyes:

that wasnt the point. cuban btched to stern that he wanted yao ref'd differently, and the refs were ordered afterwards to ref yao differently. nobody said anything about stern wanting to see the mavs advance...

[vert48]

that wasnt the point. cuban btched to stern that he wanted yao ref'd differently, and the refs were ordered afterwards to ref yao differently. nobody said anything about stern wanting to see the mavs advance...No, Cuban *****ed that Yao was setting illegal screens, and Stern reminded the refs that moving while setting a screen is illegal.

[phoenix18]

why anyone would give this guy the time of day is beyond me.. the man has lied used inside information to his own benefit, attempted to throw colleagues under the bus, been investigated, imprisoned and yet he writes a book and folks "oh look, the nba is rigged, the convict says it's true"

then you have all these folks he's pointing fingers at, people that have never been accused (except by him) when investigated by the fbi there was nothing to back up his claims against these people yet folks are still quick to jump on the donaghy bandwagon...

i'm not saying that everything he says is a lie, all good liars add a shread of truth to their lies to make them beliveable but i'm certainly not gonna put one penny in this guys pocket or am i going to indict the league based on his word... a word that has been found to be full of crap already

Hold up? Who are we supposed believe?

There has been CLEAR evidence of fixing in the past (2002 Kings). I watched a part of this series, and there was questionable calls bro.

[Raj Da Dodge]

I just cried inside after I read this cuz I knew from the beginning after game 7 that they cheated but nobody's ever believed me and still don't...now I got proof that its true...wow...i'm seriously hurt right now...

[vert48]

I just cried inside after I read this cuz I knew from the beginning after game 7 that they cheated but nobody's ever believed me and still don't...now I got proof that its true...wow...i'm seriously hurt right now...Grow up. No one cheated. They stopped Yao from setting illegal screens. It would have been cheating NOT to do that.

[Raj Da Dodge]

Grow up. No one cheated. They stopped Yao from setting illegal screens. It would have been cheating NOT to do that.
cheating/rigged is the same thing...the series was rigged...

[dnyk1337]

Doesn't stop Bynum's ugly ass from setting illegal screens.

Every big in the NBA sets moving screens. They just happened to call them on Yao and when he was getting clobbered down low, they didn't call anything.

[sergiorodriguez]

Hold up? Who are we supposed believe?

There has been CLEAR evidence of fixing in the past (2002 Kings). I watched a part of this series, and there was questionable calls bro.
i watched the whole goddamn series when it was happening-it seems like the refs were taking turns giving both teams a game-but the refs cant do anything about Robert Horry's shot

A thing of greatness

[vert48]

cheating/rigged is the same thing...the series was rigged...How was it rigged by stopping Yao from setting illegal screens?

[itsGameTime]

I watched a part of this series, and there was questionable calls bro.

SMH at this guy singling out the Kings-Lakers series. I could say the exact same thing you said about any playoffs series ever played in the NBA and not be lying.

[vert48]

Doesn't stop Bynum's ugly ass from setting illegal screens.

Every big in the NBA sets moving screens. They just happened to call them on Yao and when he was getting clobbered down low, they didn't call anything.They weren't calling anything down low for Dalembert either.

[phoenix18]

SMH at this guy singling out the Kings-Lakers series. I could say the exact same thing you said about any playoffs series ever played in the NBA and not be lying.

*sigh*

Are you shaking your head because I said the Lakers? I dont see why someone would get so offended. Its not that serious. The hostility here is off the charts.

[Raj Da Dodge]

How was it rigged by stopping Yao from setting illegal screens?
because that wasn't the only thing that they did against us...

[vert48]

because that wasn't the only thing that they did against us...I am not a Mav or Rocket fan, and the series seemed rigged right up until they stopped Yao from cheating. Once they did that, it seemed pretty fairly ref'd.

[hitmanyr2k]

yup, that game 3 is very fishy.


35 freethrows for the Kings,

to only 15 for the Lakers.

That game was definitely made for the Kings to win.

It's not fishy at all when you apply some common sense. When you have a team throwing up 31 three point shots in a game they probably don't deserve calls. LA relied on the three point shot far too often in the series and shot horribly.

[Xsatyr]

I am not a Mav or Rocket fan, and the series seemed rigged right up until they stopped Yao from cheating. Once they did that, it seemed pretty fairly ref'd.

As already stated you never watched the series and Mavs were getting away with moving screens. Not too mention Dampier grabbing Yao's arm on shots and putting two hands on him while posting which was not allowed.

[vert48]

As already stated you never watched the series and Mavs were getting away with moving screens. Not too mention Dampier grabbing Yao's arm on shots and putting two hands on him while posting which was not allowed.Yes, I did watch the series. They were letting the normal moving screens go, just not the ridiculous Yao moving screens, where he sticks out his leg and pivots. Yao was getting away with as much as he was giving.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

No, Cuban *****ed that Yao was setting illegal screens, and Stern reminded the refs that moving while setting a screen is illegal.

fixed


that wasnt the point. cuban btched to stern that he wanted yao ref'd differently, and the refs were ordered afterwards to ref yao correctly. nobody said anything about stern wanting to see the mavs advance...

[EricForman]

I dont see why Stern would favor Dallas in 2005. Tmac and Yao are bigger stars than anyone on Dallas and Yao advancing would favor business for the league more than if Dirk advances.

I'm not doubting the league favors certain teams (Lakers/Kings is still complete bulls*it. Webber should be about 15 spots higher on the all time greats list cause he should have a ring)

but I think for this instance, Donaghy is just gonig along with whatever Houston fans and Van Gundy were claiming.

[Samurai Swoosh]

98 Jazz-Bulls.
Really?

:oldlol:

Cause that series was lopsided, where as the previous year it was alot closer. The Jazz were getting beat fair and square all series long. Spanked at that ...

[wang4three]

Anyone who's worked for any corporate environment knows that a lot of short cuts are taken to increase their level of incoming cash flow, even if it's ethically wrong. Now, whether or not they're at the level Donaghy says is debatable.. but I do believe there is a certain amount of control undertaken by upper level management to increase the results they desire.

This case seems to be a very extreme one. I don't know if it's at the level of threatening jobs, and to exclusively cater to one subject, but the series did stick out to me in my head as being a very poorly officiated series. I do think a certain amount of control was exercised, but the same time the Rockets had opportunities to close games that they didn't take advantage of so that interplays as well.

[Kobe4life]

I dont see why Stern would favor Dallas in 2005. Tmac and Yao are bigger stars than anyone on Dallas and Yao advancing would favor business for the league more than if Dirk advances.

I'm not doubting the league favors certain teams (Lakers/Kings is still complete bulls*it. Webber should be about 15 spots higher on the all time greats list cause he should have a ring)

but I think for this instance, Donaghy is just gonig along with whatever Houston fans and Van Gundy were claiming.


its personal

[el_locoteee]

I dont see why Stern would favor Dallas in 2005. Tmac and Yao are bigger stars than anyone on Dallas and Yao advancing would favor business for the league more than if Dirk advances.

I'm not doubting the league favors certain teams (Lakers/Kings is still complete bulls*it. Webber should be about 15 spots higher on the all time greats list cause he should have a ring)

but I think for this instance, Donaghy is just gonig along with whatever Houston fans and Van Gundy were claiming.

Yao is one of the biggest international star, yet he is one of worst officiated players on the NBA go figure.

[Soundwave]

Yeah it doesn't make sense from a business P.O.V. that Stern would want the Mavericks to win.

The international audience that would watch the Rockets as they went deeper into the playoffs would be massive because of Yao.

McGrady was also more marketable than Dirk and had more endorsements.

[godofgods]

Stern couldn't have ordered the refs to make calls that benefit the Mavs. I mean, Jewcifer hates Dirk!

[NotYetGreat]

Man... I never really got into this whole Commish is a b**** thing but this kinda got me pissed.

[ronnymac]

Yao is one of the biggest international star, yet he is one of worst officiated players on the NBA go figure.
Worst is an underestatment. after almost every game he plays, he has some seriouse scratch marks like he just came out a freaking bout with a wildcat or something. If it was me , i would have knocked out one of these clowns by now.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

...why would Stern want a team in the 4th biggest market in the country with two cash cow stars like T-Mac and Yao to NOT advance?


Houston is not the 4th biggest NBA media market. It's the 10th biggest NBA media market. Dallas on the other hand is the 8th biggest NBA media market. So Dallas IS a bigger media market team than Houston. Houston is just a mid-sized media market.


10 Largest NBA Media Markets:


1. New York media market - 22.2 million population

2. Los Angeles media market - 17.8 million population

3. Chicago media market - 9.8 million population

4. Washington DC media market - 8.3 million population

5. Toronto media market - 8.1 million population

6. Boston media market - 7.5 million population

7. San Franciso media market - 7.4 million population

8. Dallas media market - 6.6 million population

9. Philadelphia media market - 6.4 million population

10. Houston media market - 5.9 million population

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Answers please, unless Stern wanted a white superstar(Dirk) to advance?:rolleyes:

If you would remember back to the 2005 playoffs - the NBA ran a storyline and theme prior to the playoffs and during the playoffs (sort of like the muppets thing last year with Nike) on the Steve Nash leaving Dallas and going to Phoenix thing and how him and Dirk were such close friends and how much of a "dramatic story line" it would be if "the two best friends faced each other in the playoffs". They also talked about Nash "getting revenge on Cuban" and Cuban "regretting not keeping Nash".

And of course let's not forget that Dirk and Nash are clearly the league's two white stars, which means a series featuring them can potentially increase the NBA's market in the white demographic. Since you seem to be implying that there was zero motivation for the league to want Dallas to advance maybe this is your answer. Because Dallas faced the Suns in the next round and the NBA did indeed play up the whole "the two best friends face each other" angle, as well as the "Cuban probably wishes he kept Nash after he won the MVP" angle. The Suns swept the Grizzlies 4-0 in the first round so the only problem with the match up occurring was the Mavs were down 2-0 to the Rockets and the Rockets had home court advantage.

[Brandon Roy]

LakasFanYo :applause:

I find it funny that people are still calling this a "conspiracy theory". Is it really a "theory" now? The guy won 70-80% of his bets based on inside information he got from other refs 1 hour before the games. Where is the theory in that?

Yes, the negative effect of this is fans going on a witch hunt and blaming their teams losses on supposed rigging, but at least we have a shred of truth about ref biases and possible rigging.

I don't know if you guys are really young and/or naive, but most grownups know that what matters most to a business is the bottom line, net income. A business will do almost anything (sometimes illegal and manipulative, as seen in current events) to secure the bottom line. The NBA is a business. It is not a place of purity and existential growth.

Do you really think that NBA truly values the integrity or beauty of the game? There's a reason they do things like widen the lanes, make the backcourt violation into 8 seconds, change the rules to make travelling not travelling, etc.; to make the game more exciting in order get your money. I'm pretty sure that the purity of the game is not that important when it comes down to what matters most to business. The thought of NBA games being rigged is not that ridiculous.

[kentatm]

you know... I am sorry but its completely rediculous to think that of all the teams Stern would help out it would be Dallas over Houston.

Why in the world would he want a more popular team with Yao's China following out of the first round in favor of the team run by his biggest pain in the ass?


Yao was getting away with murder on moving screens early in that series. THAT is what they were told to watch for. They started calling it. TFB. Its in the rule book.

They missed the Finley call but I know I could easily go back and find just as many misses in Houstons favor.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Has this been posted? A video of questionable calls/non calls during for a game in the 2005 rockets/mavs series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va8EukbuAwU

[Floppy]

Houston is not the 4th biggest NBA media market. It's the 10th biggest NBA media market. Dallas on the other hand is the 8th biggest NBA media market. So Dallas IS a bigger media market team than Houston. Houston is just a mid-sized media market.


10 Largest NBA Media Markets:


1. New York media market - 22.2 million population

2. Los Angeles media market - 17.8 million population

3. Chicago media market - 9.8 million population

4. Washington DC media market - 8.3 million population

5. Toronto media market - 8.1 million population

6. Boston media market - 7.5 million population

7. San Franciso media market - 7.4 million population

8. Dallas media market - 6.6 million population + 82 million

9. Philadelphia media market - 6.4 million population

10. Houston media market - 5.9 million population + 1350 million
fixed

[LAClipsFan33]

Has this been posted? A video of questionable calls/non calls during for a game in the 2005 rockets/mavs series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va8EukbuAwU

Wow...atrocious officiating

[kentatm]

#2 this was three games into the series when they were ordered by the league to change the way they called one player. That is fixing no matter how you dress it up where you tell it to stand and how much you try to make it pretty.
#3 The head of the refs thought it so important he risked his job to let Van Gundy know. So...................you think?


NO its not dingbat.

Its MAKING SURE AN ILLEGAL PLAY STOPS HAPPENING.

You are making a huge leap in logic on what SJ told SVG. You don't think it could have been something like "Hey, we have been told to keep a sharp eye out for Yao setting illegal screens. Maybe he should stop that."

I love how in the video ya'll posted the Houston announcers start brushing off Yao's illegal screens when they are proven wrong. Second damn play. "Oh there is the call for the moving screen. Lets see if he was moving." (shows Yao CLEARLY moving) "Well that play happens all the time in the NBA." :roll: BRILLIANT!

[GOBB]

Donaghy also said he never pt shaved in the game he bet on. I'm not saying everything he says is BS. But I'm not going to side with everything that comes out of his mouth instantly. I mean does he really want me to believe he never attempted to affect a game he bet on? Just went with "inside knowledge". Yea, ok.

[vert48]

Has this been posted? A video of questionable calls/non calls during for a game in the 2005 rockets/mavs series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va8EukbuAwUMost of the calls in the video were correct, and only a few were even questionable, let alone blatantly wrong. This is a video showing just how homerific an announcing crew can be, not a series of bad calls by the refs.

[el_locoteee]

Most of the calls in the video were correct, and only a few were even questionable, let alone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgrM3HFGLk0&feature=related wrong. This is a video showing just how homerific an announcing crew can be, not a series of bad calls by the refs.

So the first play was correct or questionable?

The foul on Padget on a 3 was questionable?

The foul that didn't happen on Yao was questionable?

Did you know that Dallas won by 3 points only.

And that horrible out of bound gave Ft to Dallas.

Is not that Dallas didn't need this calls to win the game. Yao on foul trouble while Dirk fresh hacking and getting away. Yest The only won by 3. Houston win that game is Dallas bye bye.

[vert48]

So the first play was correct or questionable?

The foul on Padget on a 3 was questionable?

The foul that didn't happen on Yao was questionable?

Did you know that Dallas won by 3 points only.

And that horrible out of bound gave Ft to Dallas.

Is not that Dallas didn't need this calls to win the game. Yao on foul trouble while Dirk fresh hacking and getting away. Yest The only won by 3. Houston win that game is Dallas bye bye.The first play is a perfect example. It looks like a foul at full speed, but in the replay, he gets all ball, and the announcers still say there was contact all over his arms.
The next play is Yao's moving screen. To say anything other than 'good call' is ridiculous, but the announcer says it happens a hundred times a game. I guess he is correct, if Yao is in the game.
This is a video put together to show bad calls, and the first 2 are good calls, with most of rest being either the correct call, or questionable at worst.
Bad/missed/questionable calls happen every game for both teams. If you are going to show a video of bad calls, make sure they are bad calls.

[Rasheed1]

it isnt hard to believe that the games are rigged in the NBA. Donaghy is a liar, but that doesnt mean he is lying about this.. Somebody mentioned canseco earlier.. he was a liar too..

I tend to believe something stinks in Stern's game right now, but I wouldnt believe too much of what donaghy says without more verification from other sources...

[U got Served]

Houston had "questionable" calls going against them the entire game. While Dallas was getting all the "questionable" calls to their favor. And yet it was still a 3 pt game before Finley got the ball while stepping out of bounds. The refs saw every "illegal screen" Yao was setting out there, but failed to see Finley's big foot stepping out of bounds. Great, just great. Also, since the "illegal screens" happen all the time, and are set all the time by different players; yet only a specific player is targeted, in this case Yao Ming, that's the definition of manipulating the series. Yes Yao did set an illegal screen, and that play does happen all the time by different players, yet was only "targeted" at Yao Ming. Yes Stern and the league where "fixing" or "correcting" something they had been missing. The problem is you only see them "correcting" their calls towards Yao Ming, not the overall players setting "illegal screens". That play, slightly moving on a screen, happens all the time, by many different players, yet was only targeted at Yao Ming. So yes, the refs did maniplate the series.

[el_locoteee]

The first play is a perfect example. It looks like a foul at full speed, but in the replay, he gets all ball, and the announcers still say there was contact all over his arms.
The next play is Yao's moving screen. To say anything other than 'good call' is ridiculous, but the announcer says it happens a hundred times a game. I guess he is correct, if Yao is in the game.
This is a video put together to show bad calls, and the first 2 are good calls, with most of rest being either the correct call, or questionable at worst.
Bad/missed/questionable calls happen every game for both teams. If you are going to show a video of bad calls, make sure they are bad calls.


Are you F Kidding me, pause at .8 sec and tell me how the wrist is now call a ball.

[vert48]

Houston had "questionable" calls going against them the entire game. While Dallas was getting all the "questionable" calls to their favor. And yet it was still a 3 pt game before Finley got the ball while stepping out of bounds. The refs saw every "illegal screen" Yao was setting out there, but failed to see Finley's big foot stepping out of bounds. Great, just great. Also, since the "illegal screens" happen all the time, and are set all the time by different players; yet only a specific player is targeted, in this case Yao Ming, that's the definition of manipulating the series. Yes Yao did set an illegal screen, and that play does happen all the time by different players, yet was only "targeted" at Yao Ming. Yes Stern and the league where "fixing" or "correcting" something they had been missing. The problem is you only see them "correcting" their calls towards Yao Ming, not the overall players setting "illegal screens". That play, slightly moving on a screen, happens all the time, by many different players, yet was only targeted at Yao Ming. So yes, the refs did maniplate the series.Moving screens are like traveling violations. Players are allowed to get away with small violations, but not major violations. Yes, moving screens happen all the time, but not like the moving screens Yao is setting. Yao's moving screens are the equivalent of taking 5 steps and not getting called for traveling, and we all know that only LeBron is allowed to do that.

[vert48]

Are you F Kidding me, pause at .8 sec and tell me how the wrist is now call a ball.I must be watching something else, because I do not see the wrist getting hit.

[el_locoteee]

it isnt hard to believe that the games are rigged in the NBA. Donaghy is a liar, but that doesnt mean he is lying about this.. Somebody mentioned canseco earlier.. he was a liar too..

I tend to believe something stinks in Stern's game right now, but I wouldnt believe too much of what donaghy says without more verification from other sources...

It was another retired refs that said it was disturbing when in HT some higher NBA official came into the ref locker room and started to point what call they should be paying more attention and he say it was really influential to the refs especially the young ones.

[U got Served]

Moving screens are like traveling violations. Players are allowed to get away with small violations, but not major violations. Yes, moving screens happen all the time, but not like the moving screens Yao is setting. Yao's moving screens are the equivalent of taking 5 steps and not getting called for traveling, and we all know that only LeBron is allowed to do that.

First of all, who are you to determine the when a screen is a "major" violation or a "small" violation? Let the refs decide that, they're the professionals who are getting paid. They're the ones who decide what's a "major" moving screen or a "minor" moving screen. What a coincidence that all the "illegal screens" that happen all the times by different players were mainly getting called on Yao Ming. The league decided that every moving screen, big or small, that Yao set was going to be called; while other players rarely got called for illegal screens. That means they manipulated the series.

[vert48]

First of all, who are you to determine the when a screen is a "major" violation or a "small" violation? Let the refs decide that, they're the professionals who are getting paid. They're the ones who decide what's a "major" moving screen or a "minor" moving screen. What a coincidence that all the "illegal screens" that happen all the times by different players were mainly getting called on Yao Ming. The league decided that every moving screen, big or small, that Yao set was going to be called; while other players rarely got called for illegal screens. That means they manipulated the series.I am not the one deciding. The NBA should, and then let the refs know what should be called. Isn't that what they did? They did not decide that every moving screen set by Yao should be called. Show me a small moving screen that was called on Yao, and not on someone else.

[U got Served]

I am not the one deciding. The NBA should, and then let the refs know what should be called. Isn't that what they did? They did not decide that every moving screen set by Yao should be called. Show me a small moving screen that was called on Yao, and not on someone else.

You'd think that Yao would stop setting these "major" illegal screens after the first time. Yao was constantly being called for these screens while others got away with them. The refs were making correct calls, sometimes, and they decide for themselves that they were going to target Yao Ming, not whoever was the one setting illegal screens. I see a player traveling every goddamn game yet I dont see the refs consistantly calling the travels on a specific player. The refs decided they were going to go "textbook" on Yao, while they let the other players play. That's called manipulating the series. I watched the series, and Yao was indeed "targeted". If you're going to officiate someone by the "textbook rules" you should do it for every player. Otherwise that would be manipulating a game.

[vert48]

You'd think that Yao would stop setting these "major" illegal screens after the first time. Yao was constantly being called for these screens while others got away with them. The refs were making correct calls, sometimes, and they decide for themselves that they were going to target Yao Ming, not whoever was the one setting illegal screens. I see a player traveling every goddamn game yet I dont see the refs consistantly calling the travels on a specific player. The refs decided they were going to go "textbook" on Yao, while they let the other players play. That's called manipulating the series. I watched the series, and Yao was indeed "targeted". If you're going to officiate someone by the "textbook rules" you should do it for every player. Otherwise that would be manipulating a game.You and I just disagree. I saw calls going both ways in that series. How many illegal screens was Yao called for in the series? I did not see any screens he was called for that were not also called on other players.

[U got Served]

You and I just disagree. I saw calls going both ways in that series. How many illegal screens was Yao called for in the series? I did not see any screens he was called for that were not also called on other players.

Mavs were the better team anyway. Houston was just on a hot streak that sprung from their regular season.