Wade talking trash about Dirk!

[eliteballer]

Take that, Dirk

By Chris Perkins | Friday, October 27, 2006, 07:55 PM

Dwyane Wade is developing quite a knack for getting back at those who slight him. Dallas’ Dirk Nowitzki became the latest victim after Friday’s practice. Wade was asked about the ESPN interview in which Nowitzki seemed to hint Dallas allowed Wade to slice through its defense rather than Wade doing with his own ability.

Wade said he saw the interview, then remarked, “We’re having a ring ceremony Tuesday and they’re not, so thanks, Dirk.”

So far this off-season Wade has previously referenced Dallas, saying, “I’m tired of talking about my injuries. I’m a complainer right? That’s what Dallas said. I don’t worry about it. They’re tired of hearing about my injuries. Isn’t that what they said?”

And, responding to a question about whether it would be bad for Detroit if it goes to a more perimeter-based, up-tempo offense without Ben Wallace, Wade replied, “I thought that wasn’t said when they were on pace to tie the Bulls’ record and they were doing the same thing. Once teams found out the scheme of what they were doing and attacked that then it became a problem.”

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/Heat/index.html

Uh oh...

[NBAEMoreira022]

Wade said he saw the interview, then remarked, “We’re having a ring ceremony Tuesday and they’re not, so thanks, Dirk.” OUCH. The Heat should not have won that Championship. It does not make sense . . .

Mavs- Young, quick, athletic group of players

Heat- (Without Wade) Old, washed up, bald, slow men

It was my fault the Heat won, I jinxed the Mavs.

[Younggrease]

Wade is immature and full of himself. This year he will come back to earth after a second round exit.

[JSub]

Uh oh...

another bitter Lakers fan who wants to stir up sh!t.

[VCDrivesAPorscheToWork]

:pimp:



:bowdown: Dwyane Wade


regardless, this is the season the Nets dethrone the Heat

[SCdac]

Hmmm, I can smell a Heat-Mavericks rivalry a brewin'.

[Younggrease]

The MAvs are soft... they cant be in a rivarly.

Also i should have stuck by my theory that any team that KVH plays on cannot win a title.

[Prezwoodz]

:applause: Way to go Wade.

I really hate nba players who talk without backing it up. One such example --> Dirk.
Well next time Dirk should try to get it going against players like Udonis.

[sic]

[url]Wade was asked about the ESPN interview in which Nowitzki seemed to hint Dallas allowed Wade to slice through its defense rather than Wade doing with his own ability.


Thank you Dirk. Allowing people to slice through may just win you a championship one day. Good strategy. And you followed it for 7 games in a row. Excellent.

[eliteballer]

Sorry but when a player averages more FT's in the Finals than Jordan ever got(by a good bit too) it screams reffing and not bad D.

[picc84]

Big deal. He took it easy on Dirk as far as what he could have said.

[Younggrease]

Sorry but when a player averages more FT's in the Finals than Jordan ever got(by a good bit too) it screams reffing and not bad D.

as much as i hate dwade's game, the Mavs are just soft. Their leader is soft and it trickles down to their teammates. One thing i noticed about Dirk is that when things start to go bad its always somebody elses fault. Wade getting free throws= refs, Amare killing the MAvs= blame every1 else, Him yelling in JET's face.

MAVS ARE SOFT,

[Prezwoodz]

Sorry but when a player averages more FT's in the Finals than Jordan ever got(by a good bit too) it screams reffing and not bad D.

Cry some more laker fan.

[joewait]

When is Wade going to fire back at Mcgrady for saying he only won the Finals because it was rigged?

[Voratian]

As a Spurs fan I was rooting for the Heat in the Finals, but now I regret it. Hearing Wade & Heat fans gloating about their free-throw triumph is worse than a Mavs title, IMO.

[Younggrease]

As a Spurs fan I was rooting for the Heat in the Finals, but now I regret it. Hearing Wade & Heat fans gloating about their free-throw triumph is worse than a Mavs title, IMO.

it comes down to whats worse:

Dirk to Bird comparisons or Wade to Jordan comparisons??? You be the judge

[joewait]

As a Spurs fan I was rooting for the Heat in the Finals, but now I regret it. Hearing Wade & Heat fans gloating about their free-throw triumph is worse than a Mavs title, IMO.

Hey my boys took your boys out, but it was the greatest NBA series I've ever seen. I wouldn't complain if my boys had lost to the Spurs

[Prezwoodz]

Mavs had the best opportunity last year. But choking does not win championships.

Well this year the Mavs wont even reach the finals. They had a good chance of winning and no referees dont make you lose a 7 game series.

There is no dearth of excuses for losers.

[mavsfan4zindagi]

as much as i hate dwade's game, the Mavs are just soft. Their leader is soft and it trickles down to their teammates. One thing i noticed about Dirk is that when things start to go bad its always somebody elses fault. Wade getting free throws= refs, Amare killing the MAvs= blame every1 else, Him yelling in JET's face.

MAVS ARE SOFT,


So what exactly does that make your precious Lakes? Couldn't finish off a team that the Mavs finished in 6.

A team that blows a 3-1 lead must be soft too right? No that can't be it. The Mavs are only soft cause they're led by a white guy right? You racist POS.

[joewait]

it comes down to whats worse:

Dirk to Bird comparisons or Wade to Jordan comparisons??? You be the judge

Dirk's better than Bird, in an absolute sense already, Kobe is better than Jordan

[Prezwoodz]

Dirk's better than Bird, in an absolute sense already, Kobe is better than Jordan

:roll:

Ok i had enough for the day. That is all the garbage i can take for today.

[joewait]

:roll:

uh you can laugh all you want, it doesn't matter. The guys Kobe plays against are considerably better than the ones of the Jordan era and Bird played on stacked teams and missed a lot of shots.

[SCdac]

Dirk's better than Bird, in an absolute sense already, Kobe is better than Jordan

Define in your own words "an absolute sense" please.

[BFRESH44]

Joewait says some of the dumbest ****...:roll:

[Younggrease]

uh you can laugh all you want, it doesn't matter. The guys Kobe plays against are considerably better than the ones of the Jordan era and Bird played on stacked teams and missed a lot of shots.

Sorry but Bird doesnt lose like that in the finals. Just doesnt happen. Maybe Bird starts actually steping up and taking charges or something. Also dude would just laugh at HAslem trying guard him. He would either score on him or pick apart the psuedo zone they were throwing with his Amazing passing ability. I more of a MAgic fan than a Bird fan, but give the man his respect. Bird was better than Dirk at everything. But most importantly he was a much BETTER LEADER.

[joewait]

Define in your own words "an absolute sense" please.

in terms of absolute skill. I'm obviously not going to say relatively that Dirk or Kobe is better than Bird and Jordan, considering Bird and Jordan dominated their eras. But if you actually watch film you'd see those guys' competition was much weaker, they were on stacked teams, and they missed a lot of shots. Bird missed a lot of shots. He wouldn't be tall for a small forward now anymore. Kobe can already do everything Jordan did and he has more range.

[joewait]

Sorry but Bird doesnt lose like that in the finals. Just doesnt happen. Maybe Bird starts actually steping up and taking charges or something. Also dude would just laugh at HAslem trying guard him. He would either score on him or pick apart the psuedo zone they were throwing with his Amazing passing ability. I more of a MAgic fan than a Bird fan, but give the man his respect. Bird was better than Dirk at everything. But most importantly he was a much BETTER LEADER.

Haslem never guarded dirk unless you count 2 help defenders on every touch as constituting 'Haslem'. I remember Dirk dropping 50 on Haslem pretty damn easily in the regular season.

[Younggrease]

So what exactly does that make your precious Lakes? Couldn't finish off a team that the Mavs finished in 6.

A team that blows a 3-1 lead must be soft too right? No that can't be it. The Mavs are only soft cause they're led by a white guy right? You racist POS.

I didnt say Dirk was soft because he lost the 2-0 lead. Dirk is soft for a bunch of things, the way he blames every1 else, and throws teammates under the bus in the media. The way he sucks on defense, and has to hide. The way he cant score on HAslem. The way he is 7 foot and wont even post up Steve NAsh. There are a hundred reasons Dirk is soft.

[theinfamousmobb]

When is Wade going to fire back at Mcgrady for saying he only won the Finals because it was rigged?
Wade and T-Mac are boys.....

[Kblaze8855]

If Kobe is better than Jordan and dirk is better than bird...who is your top 5 all time? Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, Shaq, and Magic? Or does magic lose credit for being on even more stacked team than Bird? And missing shots? Bird was a 50% shooter for his career. Not getting much better for a bigtime scorer.

[Younggrease]

Haslem never guarded dirk unless you count 2 help defenders on every touch as constituting 'Haslem'. I remember Dirk dropping 50 on Haslem pretty damn easily in the regular season.

thats the fake zone i said wouldnt work because Bird would kill it with his passing ability and superior post up game. Also it doesnt work if Dirk had a post up game, but he doesnt.

[Kblaze8855]

Haslem never guarded dirk unless you count 2 help defenders on every touch as constituting 'Haslem'.

Do you even care about reality when you say things about Dirk? Even watching highlights(not even full games) you can find plenty of times Dirk was guarded one on one without help. just i nthe dirk video I made that included the finals he was guarded one on one plenty of times and I tried to not include many of them(tougher shots are better highlights).

Why people jump to that insane "Doubled everytime" claim when a star shoots poorly is beyond me. Every single time a star sucks for any period of time someone has to claim "But they got doubled every time!".

It just doesnt happen. Not even Shaq in his prime got doubled every touch. It would be basically impossible to lose if anyone on a team got a legit on the ball triple team every time he got the ball.

Dallas would put up 125 a game.

[joewait]

If Kobe is better than Jordan and dirk is better than bird...who is your top 5 all time? Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, Shaq, and Magic? Or does magic lose credit for being on even more stacked team than Bird? And missing shots? Bird was a 50% shooter for his career. Not getting much better for a bigtime scorer.

I recognize that Bird, Jordan, Magic were comparatively way more dominant in their eras than Kobe and Dirk. My point is that the sport's finally reached its critical mass where everything has now been done, the game is at its athletic peak, and the game is getting more and more revolutionized. When Jordan was in the game, he was only one of a few guys who could do what he could do. Now basically every swingman can do his moves. And there's 6'6'-6'7'' pt guards now, unlike in Magic's time when they were like 5'11-6'0''. I honestly think Kobe would've dominated too if he was in the 80s, unlike now where there's simply too many good players

[theinfamousmobb]

Haslem/Posey did a damn good job on Dirk, that no one can say otherwise.

[joewait]

Do you even care about reality when you say things about Dirk? Even watching highlights(not even full games) you can find plenty of times Dirk was guarded one on one without help. just i nthe dirk video I made that included the finals he was guarded one on one plenty of times and I tried to not include many of them(tougher shots are better highlights).

Why people jump to that insane "Doubled everytime" claim when a star shoots poorly is beyond me. Every single time a star sucks for any period of time someone has to claim "But they got doubled every time!".

It just doesnt happen. Not even Shaq in his prime got doubled every time.

he barely guarded dirk 1 on 1 and was in constant foul trouble. To say haslem shut dirk down is to say tayshaun prince shut kobe down.

[joewait]

Haslem/Posey did a damn good job on Dirk, that no one can say otherwise.
that and the refs letting them get away with murder

[theinfamousmobb]

that and the refs letting them get away with murder
:violin: :cry:

[eliteballer]

I recognize that Bird, Jordan, Magic were comparatively way more dominant in their eras than Kobe and Dirk. My point is that the sport's finally reached its critical mass where everything has now been done, the game is at its athletic peak, and the game is getting more and more revolutionized. When Jordan was in the game, he was only one of a few guys who could do what he could do. Now basically every swingman can do his moves. And there's 6'6'-6'7'' pt guards now, unlike in Magic's time when they were like 5'11-6'0''. I honestly think Kobe would've dominated too if he was in the 80s, unlike now where there's simply too many good players

Son I think the only thing that's reached critical mass is your hyperbole.

[joewait]

:violin: :cry:

Nah i'm over it, it's just funny considering dirk basically owned miami the last 3 years (including a 50 pt game on Haslem in Miami) and now you think they suddenly figured Dirk out and 'shut him down'

[joewait]

Son I think the only thing that's reached critical mass is your hyperbole.

Ok. Well you just beat me with that

[sic]

Dirk's better than Bird, in an absolute sense already, Kobe is better than Jordan

So now i see how it works. We take 2 of the biggest chokers from last season and put them above all time greats.

That makes a lot of sense. Sorry did not realize it earlier.

[Kblaze8855]

No superstar gets guarded literally one on one for an entire game. its a 5 on 5 game. When one guy has it the 4 guys who arent assigned to him dont just ignore him. Prince, Bowen, and so on have(by Kobes standards) shut Kobe down from time to time just like Tmac did to Dirk and say.....Cato has done to Duncan. The other team having help D ready doesnt mean the guy isnt guarded one on one. It means they are playing nba basketball not a game of 21.

Help D is just a part of the game. Either it can be said Bowen and so on guard Kobe one on one or that Tmac in 05 guarded Dirk one on one or we should just scrap the term and use something else. Long as there are 5 guys on each team there will be guys behind you to help should you get beat. Them not going to the other side of the court for the team to live or die based on keeping a guy in front of you just isnt gonna happen.

[BFRESH44]

Do you even care about reality when you say things about Dirk?

Dude doesn't care about the reality of what he says about basketball in general, period. Never makes any substantial arguements ever...

I'm still laughing at the "Bird missed alot of shots" statement. Just showed the ignorance... (Mf'er was a career 50% shooter, damn near 40% from 3 If I'm correct) comments...:roll:


I learned not to take Joewait all that serious with his comments towards Lebron. "Lebron is NOT a top 10 player"...

Joewait, c'mon for once dude.. Engage in any actual rational basketbal discussion for once with some substantial points brought to the table and not some retarded ****. I know you can do it.....

[sic]

The kind of loaded roster the Mavs had, it os an absolute disgrace what the choker Dirk did in the finals.
Hmm let me see Dirk is already above Bird so Let us assume he actualy performed well and won the championship. then i would have to put Dirk at all time Number #1.

[Targus]

up until the NBA finals i have been a d-wade supporter/fan, but now i just dont like the guy.

[Kblaze8855]

If the Mavs ever win the title Joe might actually get himself banned with the insane things he will start to preach.

[SCY]

How much stupider can his statements get?

[BFRESH44]

up until the NBA finals i have been a d-wade supporter/fan, but now i just dont like the guy.

I've seen this multiple times now...And I don't understand.

For starters, how does 1 series steer your personal perception of a player? That kinda pusszling to me..

I'm a long time Heat fan, and of course a big Dwyane Wade fan, and Wade did get the benefit of the doubt on alot of calls as I can admit. Game 5 especially.

But It seems that people are annoyed of Wade's foul calls but not nesacarily looking at the events that transpired in the Finals from a rational point of view...


Dwyane Wade with his style of play, very similar to Iverson is going to go the line alot. ALOT. The dude drives to the basket with reckless abandon, relentlessy. That very style of play dicates the judement of calls to be in his favor in alot of instances...

ESPECIALY GIVEN THE RULE CHANGES THAT GREATLY BENEFIT PERIMETER ORIENTED PLAYERS IN TODAYS LEAGUE.

The Dallas Mavericks were shooting jumpshots...Point blank, period. That is undebatable(stats support with the Points in the Paint diffrential). They thought they could win the 'Chip shooting jumpshots, and it backfired like a mf'er.

They did not take advatange of the soft tough fouls that were being call in that series, they shot jumpshots..

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

[mavsfan4zindagi]

I didnt say Dirk was soft because he lost the 2-0 lead. Dirk is soft for a bunch of things, the way he blames every1 else, and throws teammates under the bus in the media. The way he sucks on defense, and has to hide. The way he cant score on HAslem. The way he is 7 foot and wont even post up Steve NAsh. There are a hundred reasons Dirk is soft.

Kinda like Kobe threw Shaq under the bus? Or how Kobe got his **** swated by DJ Mbenga? Or how he quits during Game 7's in a series he's up 3-1?

Almost as many reasons why your boy Kobe is soft too.

[Kblaze8855]

"How much stupider can his statements get?"

Id bet near anything if the Mavs win the title he will claim Dirk is the greatest player in NBA history. If hes willing to put him over Bird now and Kobe over Jordan....and Dirk over Kobe....its not that huge a jump to make.

[SCY]

Well, we can already knock Bird and Jordan out of his consideration, so he might think so already. If he doesn't have respect for Bird and Jordan's comp., I don't think he's putting Wilt or Russell at the top of his list either.

[joewait]

It's tough arguing with people who seemingly have no education.

[FabCasablancas]

I think it's hilarious that people are trashing Dirk when he had a far better season and playoffs than Wade.. without having near the players around him that Wade has.

I GURANTEE YOU that if Dirk was doing what Wade was doing on the Heaqt everyone would be saying how loaded the Heat are and Dirk is just lucky to have such a great team.

And, conversely, if Wade did what Dirk did on the Mavs people would be saying how Wade makes his worthless team better.

Juyst like if Dirk was doing what Kobe is doing on the Lakers.. people would say Odom was the real MVP of that team. Just like when Nick Van Exel was on the Mavs an everyone said he was the Mavs true MVP.

Dirk is the MOST underrated player in the history of the league.

And you can be certain the fact that no white player has led a team to championship since Bird is the reason for this. And that was 20 years ago.

[Jerm]

Kobe is presently better than Jordan, I think that's what Joewait is trying to say but your senses are probably clouded with whatever.

[LakersDynasty]

How many dumbasses can you have in 1 thread?

[SCY]

It's tough arguing with people who seemingly have no education.

Naw, arguing with you is pretty easy.

[Kblaze8855]

when Nick Van Exel was on the Mavs an everyone said he was the Mavs true MVP.

Thats flat out...and inarguably...not true.

Why must Dirk fans take thing to the extreme? Its not like it helps prove a point. It just makes it easier to dismiss anything else they say.

[FabCasablancas]

Thats flat out...and inarguably...not true.

Why must Dirk fans take everything to the extreme?

Like hell that isn't true. I have all those games on tape.. every announcer said Nick Van Exel was the MVP of the Mavs when we went to the WCF. It can't even be argued. It's a fact. It's funny how people forget all the stupid sh!t that is said and believed. Just like if you said Dirk was as good or better than KG 2 seasons ago you would have been laughed off the internet. Same thing if you said Nash was close to Jason Kidd.

[Jerm]

How many dumbasses can you have in 1 thread?

Think man, use your brain and it won't be hard to realize why the statement "Kobe is presently better than Jordan" is categorically true.

[TMacsOneGoodEye]

Wade shouldn't thank Dirk for the ring. He should thank the refs for it.

Only player in history who won a finals MVP with no memorable plays, just memorable free throws.

95% of NBA fans agree Wade undeserving of the treatment he got. And the other 5% are Heat fans or Kobe groupies (Knoeitawl, AAP, etc)

[LakersDynasty]

Think man, use your brain and it won't be hard to realize why the statement "Kobe is presently better than Jordan" is categorically true.
I hope that's sarcasm......

[Kblaze8855]

Like hell that isn't true. I have all those games on tape.. every announcer said Nick Van Exel was the MVP of the Mavs when we went to the WCF. It can't even be argued. It's a fact.

I watched a Mavs/Pacers(think it was pacers) game recently from 03 where Bill walton said Steve Nash was the MVP of the league. If only for that what you said isnt true. I also notice that Dirk got 43 points in MVP voting to Nicks 0. Including a second place vote. nash got 1 5th place vote. If Dirk got 43 points to Nicks 0 how did everyone think Nick was the Mavs MVP? I'll tell you. It didnt happen. If anyone thought Nick was MVP of the Mavs it was in the context of a single game he stepped up in. And anyone can be the key player in a game. Or even a series.


It funny how people forget all the stupid sh!t that is said and believed. Just like if you said Dirk was as good or better than KG 2 seasons ago you would have been laughed off the internet.

Ive been on ISH since the 01-02 season and the KG/Dirk argument never went away. Even when KG won MVP there was a large number of people saying they wouldnt beat the Nuggets in first round and so on. Even when KG had that great game 7 scoring every one of his teams field goals in the 4th and having 30+20+ that very night there were Dirk or KG arguments.


Same thing if you said Nash was close to Jason Kidd.

Maybe a third of the board had Marbury as the best point in the league back then and Nash did get some mentions too. Less of course. But some.

[Jerm]

I hope that's sarcasm......

Geez...How smarter can you get?

If I give you Jordan and Kobe today, who will you choose to play for your team?...Figure it out yourself!...Please show me you're smarter, PLEASE!

[sic]

Wade shouldn't thank Dirk for the ring. He should thank the refs for it.

Only player in history who won a finals MVP with no memorable plays, just memorable free throws.

95% of NBA fans agree Wade undeserving of the treatment he got. And the other 5% are Heat fans or Kobe groupies (Knoeitawl, AAP, etc)

I would still like to sincerely thank Dirk for the choke job.

as for the referees making the mavs lose. :cry:

[Younggrease]

I hope that's sarcasm......

I think he means that 28 yr old Kobe is better than 45 yr old Jordan.

Dirk is not overrated his is rated right where he should be. About 5 or 6 in the league. Dude plays no defense and has played on stacked teams and was never able to get a championship and only managed 1 finals apperance. You would think after TMAC layed the blueprint on how to stop Dirk, he would expand his game, obviously he didnt.

Until Dirk gets a post game, he will get shut down when it matters by the same type of defense the Rockets and HEat played.

Just put a player tall and agile. Like TMAC, Ryan Bowen, Jefferies, HAslem and have them contest his jumpers and be physical with him. Then he is taken out of his game.

[LakersDynasty]

Geez...How smarter can you get?

If I give you Jordan and Kobe today, who will you choose to play for your team?...Figure it out yourself!...Please show me you're smarter, PLEASE!
I don't know what the **** you're trying to get at but I never said Kobe was better than Jordan, everything you said is pointless, go argue with Joewait since he's the one that made that statement.

[LiL Stevie]

This fool Wade is so full of himself. :no:

[Jerm]

I think he means that 28 yr old Kobe is better than 45 yr old Jordan.


Wow...we have a genius amongst us. LakersDynasty, that wasn't that hard now, wass it?

[Mrclutch]

Don't worry, Spurs will bring Wade back to earth

[LakersDynasty]

Wow...we have a genius amongst us. LakersDynasty, that wasn't that hard now, wass it?
No sir, thank you for teaching me a lesson. :bowdown:

[FabCasablancas]

If anyone thought Nick was MVP of the Mavs it was in the context of a single game he stepped up in. And anyone can be the key player in a game. Or even a series.

I am tlaking aobut for the playoff run in 2002-2003. When the MAvs went to the WCF.. everyone unanimoulsy said Van Exel was the MVP.. which is just exactly as stupid as saying Wade is MVP with Shaq on his team.

Ive been on ISH since the 01-02 season and the KG/Dirk argument never went away. Even when KG won MVP there was a large number of people saying they wouldnt beat the Nuggets in first round and so on.

That's not what the media would have said. The media would have unanimously said KG was better than Dirk.. KG has an MVP and what has he done to deserve it? Statpad? That's aobut it. Dirk truly deserved MVP the past 2 seasons and didn't get it. But now finally after leading his team to the Finals he might get some respect.. but there are still people who would say KG is better. Yet if KG just led a team to the Finals NO one would be saying Dirk was better. It's pretty simple to udnerstand..

Maybe a third of the board had Marbury as the best point in the league back then and Nash did get some mentions too. Less of course. But some.

The point remains though.. that Dirk and Nash were both incredibly underrated because of their race.. and STILL are. You think that's just going to go away? And it took very very very special circumstances for Nash to get the credit he did for the Suns.Nahs also has an advantage over Dirk in that his game is much more flashy and conventional than Dirk's.

[LakersDynasty]

Nash won 2 MVPs (which he did NOT deserve) and he's underrated because of his race? Incredible.

[sic]

Nahs also has an advantage over Dirk in that his game is much more flashy and conventional than Dirk's.

Wow conventional and flashy at the same time. Interesting

[Hawker]

Thank you Dirk. Allowing people to slice through may just win you a championship one day. Good strategy. And you followed it for 7 games in a row. Excellent.

good counting

[FabCasablancas]

Dirk is not overrated his is rated right where he should be. About 5 or 6 in the league.

Why 5 or 6? Why not numbe rone? Because he's white? He can only be 5 or 6? Who is better than him? some young players that have never done anything on their own?

Dude plays no defense

Like Kobe, Wade and LeBron play any defense? At least Dirk rebounds.. something Wade, Kobe and LeBron don't do.

and has played on stacked teams

Kobe played on far far far more stacked teams than Dirk as Did Wade.. even LeBron has a great great team around him. Wade had Sha and Zo. and Walker.. just ridiculous.

and was never able to get a championship and only managed 1 finals apperance.

Without any decent bigman.. what else could be expected?

You would think after TMAC layed the blueprint on how to stop Dirk, he would expand his game, obviously he didnt.

He only expanded it enough to beat the Spurs.. Dirk doesn't need to expand his game.. his teamamtes do.. they can't do anyhting.. they can't shoot.. can't defend.. his team stinks.

Until Dirk gets a post game, he will get shut down when it matters by the same type of defense the Rockets and HEat played.[

Until he gets a better tema around him you mean. Like Dirk couldn't wina championship with Shaq on his team.. please..

Just put a player tall and agile. Like TMAC, Ryan Bowen, Jefferies, HAslem and have them contest his jumpers and be physical with him. Then he is taken out of his game.

And just surround him with teammates that can't hit a wide open shot..

[Younggrease]

If anyone thought Nick was MVP of the Mavs it was in the context of a single game he stepped up in. And anyone can be the key player in a game. Or even a series.

I am tlaking aobut for the playoff run in 2002-2003. When the MAvs went to the WCF.. everyone unanimoulsy said Van Exel was the MVP.. which is just exactly as stupid as saying Wade is MVP with Shaq on his team.

Ive been on ISH since the 01-02 season and the KG/Dirk argument never went away. Even when KG won MVP there was a large number of people saying they wouldnt beat the Nuggets in first round and so on.

That's not what the media would have said. The media would have unanimously said KG was better than Dirk.. KG has an MVP and what has he done to deserve it? Statpad? That's aobut it. Dirk truly deserved MVP the past 2 seasons and didn't get it. But now finally after leading his team to the Finals he might get some respect.. but there are still people who would say KG is better. Yet if KG just led a team to the Finals NO one would be saying Dirk was better. It's pretty simple to udnerstand..

Maybe a third of the board had Marbury as the best point in the league back then and Nash did get some mentions too. Less of course. But some.

The point remains though.. that Dirk and Nash were both incredibly underrated because of their race.. and STILL are. You think that's just going to go away? And it took very very very special circumstances for Nash to get the credit he did for the Suns.Nahs also has an advantage over Dirk in that his game is much more flashy and conventional than Dirk's.


If Dirk and NAsh are so great. Than why no finals apperances. Im sure if you put Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant or Lebron or Wade on the same team and surround them with the talent they have they would have a couple championships.

Why couldnt these great players get it done???? You said this guy is better than Bird, and Nash is the best pg in the league and you give them former all stars in their prime and they cant eeven get to the finals

Also Dirk has guys that can make shots. Jason Terry shots over 40% from 3, Howard over 40%. Stackhouse has a decent jumper as well.

[FabCasablancas]

Wow conventional and flashy at the same time. Interesting

How are those contradictory? Nash palys the point guard position conventionally. He is a pass first point guard. Dirk plays power forward like a shooting guard. Nash's passing game is more entertaining than a jumpshooter.

[LakersDynasty]

Like Kobe, Wade and LeBron play any defense? At least Dirk rebounds.. something Wade, Kobe and LeBron don't do.


Kobe played on far far far more stacked teams than Dirk as Did Wade.. even LeBron has a great great team around him. Wade had Sha and Zo. and Walker.. just ridiculous.






He only expanded it enough to beat the Spurs.. Dirk doesn't need to expand his game.. his teamamtes do.. they can't do anyhting.. they can't shoot.. can't defend.. his team stinks.



And just surround him with teammates that can't hit a wide open shot..
:roll: All defensive first team for the fourth time and he plays no defense? Walker is a great player to have on your team? Lebron has better teammates than Dirk? Dumb****.

[Xplicit]

How is Wade being full of himself and how is that "trash-talking"? He simply responded to Dirk's little comment. What did you expect him to say? Admit that it was Dallas' crappy D that was truly Finals MVP and not him? :rolleyes: You haters gotta come stronger than that.

Success just breeds hate I guess. Kobe knows about that. Now, the Wade-hatred bandwagon is at full force... although Kobe haters will always outnumber any other hater group in the NBA (probably more to do with the fact that he's a smug jerk though).

[hotsizzle]

Like Kobe, Wade and LeBron play any defense? At least Dirk rebounds.. something Wade, Kobe and LeBron don't do.

wow...just wow

[FabCasablancas]

If Dirk and NAsh are so great. Than why no finals apperances.

Becuase they are too similar.. they are both essentially guards -- mainly perimeter players. Their games didn't compliment each other as much as they could have. They were redundant. They both need a low post presence to be their best. But I do think the the MAVS would be better if Nash was sitll on the team. They might have won it last season if that was the case. But they would also still be underrated as well. Both of them would have lost credit to the other.

Im sure if you put Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant or Lebron or Wade on the same team and surround them with the talent they have they would have a couple championships.

Those are more complimentary players. Put Dirk with Duncan and they would look better than Wade and Duncan or Kobe and Duncan.. because Dirk is BETTER than Wade and Kobe.. and more unselfish. We have never seen how good Dirk can be because he has never had a truly complimentary player. And/Or a decent bigman.

Why couldnt these great players get it done???? You said this guy is better than Bird, and Nash is the best pg in the league and you give them former all stars in their prime and they cant eeven get to the finals

The allstars that were on the Mavs were also redundant. More perimeter scorers.

The problem happened when the Mavs were being built. They didn't build the inside of the team properly.. then they were too good to get bigmen through the draft to put next to Dirk.. and because Dirk is so underrated bigmen free agents like Malone and Zo won't go to the Mavs. So they have no way to get the players the Mavs truly need.

[ClutchCityReturns]

Even before I read this I had the sense that DWade was the kind of player to let his early success go to his head. I still believe that to be the case.

[Hawker]

Wade is a freaking joke. A whole new season is starting and the one that won the ship still isnt over it. Thats pretty sad. Wade is just another benefit of shaq. I dont see how anybody doesnt see that because its one of the most obvious things ever. And BTW why does everyone assume that you are racist if u think dirk is 5 or 6. I mean isnt that close enough? The difference between 5 and 1 isnt the color of someone's skin. You are racist for accusing someone of being racist. Racist bastards!!!!

[hotsizzle]

Those ar emore complimentary players. Put Dirk with Duncna and they would look bett6er than Wade and Duncan or Kobe and Duncan.. because Dirk is BETTER than Wade and Kobe.. and more unselfish. We have never seen how good Dirk cna be bcause he has never had a truly complimentary player. And/Or a decent bigman.

keep thinking that. If Dirk was as great as you beleive, you wouldnt have to make the excuse of who compliments him...

[Hawker]

TIM DUNCAN IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. Then kobe then dirk then lebron then wade.

[BFRESH44]

Why 5 or 6? Why not numbe rone? Because he's white? He can only be 5 or 6? Who is better than him? some young players that have never done anything on their own?

I know your seriously not trying to make a race thing...:roll:





Like Kobe, Wade and LeBron play any defense? At least Dirk rebounds.. something Wade, Kobe and LeBron don't do.

Mf'er is 7' ft power forward. He supposed to rebound, dummy. And even then Kobe, Wade, and Bron avg 5+ boards career wise from swingman/guard posistion which is damn good.

And Kobe, Wade, Bron ALL DEFEND(especially Kobe) at their respective posistions a HUNDRED times better than Dirk. Undebatable too.





Kobe played on far far far more stacked teams than Dirk as Did Wade.. even LeBron has a great great team around him. Wade had Sha and Zo. and Walker.. just ridiculous.

Son said Antoine Walker...:roll:

Dirk played with the great Antoine Walker too, along with Antawn Jamison, and the two time MVP in Steve Nash and didn't win ****. Explain that for me will ya??...:confusedshrug:




He only expanded it enough to beat the Spurs.. Dirk doesn't need to expand his game.. his teamamtes do.. they can't do anyhting.. they can't shoot.. can't defend.. his team stinks.

That why Josh Howard and Jason Terry shoot the three at 40% clip right?

[FabCasablancas]

keep thinking that. If Dirk was as great as you beleive, you wouldnt have to make the excuse of who compliments him...

And if Kobe didn't play with Shaq he probably wouldn't be in the league today... he probaly would have been kicked out of it -- just like his father.

[JSub]

TIM DUNCAN IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. Then kobe then dirk then lebron then wade.

You claim Wade is the fifth best player in the league, yet in your last post, you said "Wade is a freaking joke."

Explain. Please, enlighten me.

[LakersDynasty]

And if Kobe didn't play with Shaq he probably wouldn't be in the league today... he probaly would have been kicked out of it -- just like his father.
:confused: :stupid: :wtf:

[hotsizzle]

And if Kobe didn't play with Shaq he probably wouldn't be in the league today... he probaly would have been kicked out of it -- just like his father.

WOW..did you just seriously say that???? omfg

[Kblaze8855]

I am tlaking aobut for the playoff run in 2002-2003. When the MAvs went to the WCF.. everyone unanimoulsy said Van Exel was the MVP.. which is just exactly as stupid as saying Wade is MVP with Shaq on his team.

"Everyone unanimoulsy"? Its things like that that make it hard to take so mny Dirk fans serious. Something about liking that man creates a total seperation from reality it seems. If you honestly think everyone believed NVE was the Mavs MVP you and I existed in totally different worlds for a while there. because I know ive only missed 2 nationally shown playoff games since 86 none of them in 2003. And yet still I missed that it seems. See what I remember is Dirk getting like 40/15 one game and seeing people here claim he might be as good as or better than Duncan. Not the majority. Not everyone. Im able to seperate a small minority from the entirety of the sports world you see. But if only for those select few...its just not true that everyone thought nick was the MVP.

This is just like you claiming nobody anywhere picked the Mavs to make the finals when there were prediction topics all over the place with them making it. you like to paint as bad a picture as possible to make dirk look like either god saving the garbage that is his team or like people think hes John Koncak.

Dirk did not get on that many peoples MVP ballot then a week later be considered less valuable than Nick Vanexel by the entirety of humanity.

It simply did not happen. Nick got some love. he took over some games. But Dirk was almost always considered the teams best player and in rare cases he wasnt it was Finley or Nash. nick may have gotten some announcer hyped when he made a big 3 in the playoffs but that doesnt mean fans in general thought a 25/10 all star all NBA player was somehow inferior to his teams streak shooting backup point guard after a few big games.


That's not what the media would have said. The media would have unanimously said KG was better than Dirk.. KG has an MVP and what has he done to deserve it? Statpad? That's aobut it.

If Dirk has a 24/14/6/2/1.5 season this year on a 58 win team that wasnt even healthy and didnt win MVP you would never let it go.


Dirk truly deserved MVP the past 2 seasons and didn't get it. But now finally after leading his team to the Finals he might get some respect.. but there are still people who would say KG is better. Yet if KG just led a team to the Finals NO one would be saying Dirk was better. It's pretty simple to udnerstand..

You and many like you would say Dirk is better if KG puts up 40/25 this season win 77 games and sweeps the playoffs. him winning 2 more games in the 04 playoffs and being in the finals wouldnt be the difference between a near 50/50 split and a 100% agreement in him being better than Dirk.




The point remains though.. that Dirk and Nash were both incredibly underrated because of their race.. and STILL are. You think that's just going to go away? And it took very very very special circumstances for Nash to get the credit he did for the Suns.Nahs also has an advantage over Dirk in that his game is much more flashy and conventional than Dirk's.

His race? Who do you think runs the NBA? who do you think votes for MVP and all these awards? Who do you think the majority online here is? White people mostly(asians a close second here). The race thing goes both ways. If you really think a lot of fans dont love Nash because hes similar to them youre just blind to reality. Sure black people are also more likely to look up to people more similar to them. But fact is white people run the NBA and white people do most of the award voting and if only by sheer numbers are most of the fans. Maybe not by percentage of each race who likes the NBA. But by numbers they are.

[Hawker]

You claim Wade is the fifth best player in the league, yet in your last post, you said "Wade is a freaking joke."

Explain. Please, enlighten me.

Just how he acts sometimes. The winner still isnt over the Finals.

[LakersDynasty]

I know your seriously not trying to make a race thing...:roll:






Mf'er is 7' ft power forward. He supposed to rebound, dummy. And even then Kobe, Wade, and Bron avg 5+ boards career wise from swingman/guard posistion which is damn good.

And Kobe, Wade, Bron ALL DEFEND(especially Kobe) at their respective posistions a HUNDRED times better than Dirk. Undebatable too.






Son said Antoine Walker...:roll:

Dirk played with the great Antoine Walker too, along with Antawn Jamison, and the two time MVP in Steve Nash and didn't win ****. Explain that for me will ya??...:confusedshrug:




That why Josh Howard and Jason Terry shoot the three at 40% clip right?
Fab=Owned.
One thing that people forget, he also played with Finley who was simply a MONSTER back then, but yeah having a top SG and a future two time MVP along with a great clutch shooter (Nick) is a garbage team, poor Dirk.

[JSub]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/curiousg11/wade_champ.jpg

[Hawker]

who the heck is that old chick gtfo

[JSub]

Just how he acts sometimes. The winner still isnt over the Finals.

Mavs fans and Kobe lovers still arent over the Finals.

[ClutchCityReturns]

Dirk's better than Bird, in an absolute sense already, Kobe is better than Jordan

joewait one god damn minute. did i read that right?

:wtf:

[sic]

TIM DUNCAN IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. Then kobe then dirk then lebron then wade.

I can agree with all except Dirk.
In fact i would put KG, Elton Brand,TMAC above Dirk.

[Hawker]

Mavs fans and Kobe lovers still arent over the Finals.

Name some mavs fans for me cus i dont kno any but anyways thats acceptable for fans. It isnt acceptable for the players. When the loser isnt over it thats expected but when the WINNER isnt over it thats even more sad.

[sic]

Name some mavs fans for me cus i dont kno any but anyways thats acceptable for fans. It isnt acceptable for the players. When the loser isnt over it thats expected but when the WINNER isnt over it thats even more sad.
You get over the loss. You dont get over the win.

[Hawker]

You get over the loss. You dont get over the win.

What do u mean?

[sic]

What do u mean?

Hey i won, now i need to get over it.

Hey i lost, now i need to get over it.

Which one makes sense. It aint that hard.

[JSub]

Name some mavs fans for me cus i dont kno any but anyways thats acceptable for fans. It isnt acceptable for the players. When the loser isnt over it thats expected but when the WINNER isnt over it thats even more sad.

You dont know any? You're one of them, you turd. TMOGE is on the same boat, but he's not a piece of turd. The NBA champ gets to say whatever the fcuk he wants and the loser gets to sulk in his defeat. Thats what you're entitled to after winning the title.

[Hawker]

I am over it man. What i mean is that wade shouldnt even care what dirk says and just dismiss the comment.

[FabCasablancas]

I know your seriously not trying to make a race thing... IF you are your an idiot.

Why am I an idiot? Who has EVER said Dirk is the best player in the league? for people to say Dirk is the 5th best player in the league he has to be the actual best player in the league. That's how it works. If Dirk was actually the 5th best playe rin the league people would say he isn't in the top ten. Dirm is ALWAYS going to be underrated. That's just the way it is. You look at Dikr's stats over the past few years and NO has been as good as him as long as him. That's a fact. he has been the true MVP the past few seasons.. yet he's only the 5th or 6th best player? If Dirk was black there would be no debate.

Mf'er is 7' ft power forward. He supposed to rebound, dummy.

Dummy? So you are saying guys liek Kobe, Wade and Lebron get somekind of pass because they are short? Because Dikr is 7 feet that's an unfair advantage? This is basketball nimrod.. yeah he's suppsoed to rebound.. because he's 7 feet! That's lie saying Shaq's post dominance doesn't count because he's 7 feet and 4 hundred pounds.. it's BECAUSE Dirk is 7 feet that he is better than these guys! I sware to god.. people are so assbackwards..

And even then Kobe, Wade, and Bron avg 5+ boards career wise from swingman/guard posistion which is damn good.

Doesn't matter.. they still can't compete with a 7 footer.. that's the point!

And Kobe, Wade, Bron ALL DEFEND(especially Kobe) at there respective posistions a HUNDRED times better than Dirk. Undebatable

BS.. this is where the race comes in.. you just assume this because of Dirk's race. NONE of these guys plays D. Kobe doesn't even cross half court half the time.. yet he is said to be one of the best defenders in the league. Someone at 82 games.com watched Kobe play D for a game.. and documented it.. he was atrocious. And it's like that all the time. LeBron and Wade are probably even worse.

Son said Antoine Walker...

Pat Riley signed Walker.. so did Don Nelson.. we would probably still have Walker if we didn't have Dirk.. the Heat don't have another PF so Walker fits right in. When Wlake ris on he is a big game player. He helped them win that championshiop. There is no doubt.

Dirk played with that great Antoine Walker, along with Antawn Jamison, and the two time MVP in Steve Nash and didn't win ****. Explain that for me wil ya??...

Because our team was just salpped togehter. we didn't have a cente rlike Shaq and Zo.. we had Walker Dirk and Twan all trying to play the same psoition. We had tons of redundant players. The Heat are far more balanced.. they have 2 hall of fame centers to our zero centers. It's comical that I even have to explain this..

That why Josh Howard and Jason Terry shoot the three at 40% clip right?

That's why Terry went 2 of 11 from 3 point range while Dirk had 2 Heat defenders glued to his butt. Your stats are a joke..

The Mavs were the worst 3 pooint shooting team in the playoffs. Despite all the doubles Dirk demaneded.. they should have been one of the best if they had any decent shooters. Avery wouldn't even use a greta shooter he had -- Dirk. Which is a whole nother problem..

[JSub]

I am over it man. What i mean is that wade shouldnt even care what dirk says and just dismiss the comment.

Wade gets to talk sh!t about Dirk until the day Dirk takes the title from him (which aint gonna happen anytime soon).

[lakerfreak]

It's tough arguing with people who seemingly have no education.

yup :cheers:

[FabCasablancas]

One thing that people forget, he also played with Finley who was simply a MONSTER back then,

That clinches it.. you ahve to be TMOGE.. only Tmac thinks Finley is anything other than crap.

The ONLY reason the Mavs beat the Spurs was becaus eof Finley's choking a$$.

but yeah having a top SG and a future two time MVP along with a great clutch shooter (Nick) is a garbage team, poor Dirk.

Notice they are ALL guards.. you need more than guards to win a championship. Dirk is a good bigman but he can't do it all by himself. He certainly can't be expected to do it with Dampier, Diop, LaFrentz and Bradley..

[XxNeXuSxX]

uh you can laugh all you want, it doesn't matter. The guys Kobe plays against are considerably better than the ones of the Jordan era and Bird played on stacked teams and missed a lot of shots.

Joe, you really got to shutup sometimes.

[XxNeXuSxX]

yup :cheers:

And this makes you retarded for agreeing with him :violin:


Damn look at all these uneducated d!icks who actually think Bird was a better player than Dirk
!!

:roll::roll: It's probably those same toolbags who actually think Jordan is better than Kobe! :roll:!!!

[TMacsOneGoodEye]

haha, i just realized who FabCasablancas is. He's a poster from dallasbasketball.com named 41ForMVP. He was just a Dirk groupie.

He made a thread about how Dirk is a norse god and how he kind of looks like Dirk and we found it and put it on dallasbasketball.com and pretty much retired him. It was the longest clowning in message board history. I think it went nonstop for 4 weeks.

Guys a dumbass and a racist, ignore him.

[Younggrease]

One thing that people forget, he also played with Finley who was simply a MONSTER back then,

That clinches it.. you ahve to be TMOGE.. only Tmac thinks Finley is anything other than crap.

The ONLY reason the Mavs beat the Spurs was becaus eof Finley's choking a$$.

but yeah having a top SG and a future two time MVP along with a great clutch shooter (Nick) is a garbage team, poor Dirk.

Notice they are ALL guards.. you need more than guards to win a championship. Dirk is a good bigman but he can't do it all by himself. He certainly can't be expected to do it with Dampier, Diop, LaFrentz and Bradley..

there are only sooo many good centers. There are 2, Shaq and Yao. And Dirk takes up the pf spot with his guard ways so whose fault is that. The fact that it is sooo hard to put a team around Dirk doesnt bode well for him. But Diop and Dampier arent that bad as far as centers go in the league.

[Sneakerpro]

I'm a Mavs fan and Dwyane was probably my favorite player that didn't play for the Mavericks until this crap but being honest if I didn't like the Mavs I would think it was funny.

I mean the Mavericks did disrespect dude during the Finals, hell I remember Josh Howard flat out saying he can't shoot during an interview. I also remember Darryl Armstrong saying he fakes his injuries(which I think he does). I mean if someone said this stuff about you you would be pissed too.

[FabCasablancas]

haha, i just realized who FabCasablancas is. He's a poster from dallasbasketball.com named 41ForMVP. He was just a Dirk groupie.

He made a thread about how Dirk is a norse god and how he kind of looks like Dirk and we found it and put it on dallasbasketball.com and pretty much retired him. It was the longest clowning in message board history. I think it went nonstop for 4 weeks.

Guys a dumbass and a racist, ignore him.


This is the guiy who put a picture of him and his boyfriend he said looked like DIRK...

And he calls me a Dirk groupie.. haha.. him and his friend looked so g@y it was beyond belief. Show that picture again Tmacs.. if you've got the stones. haha

[FabCasablancas]

there are only sooo many good centers. There are 2, Shaq and Yao.

There are only so many good centers.. exaclty.. and Wade has 2 of the best ones in the elague. And yet Wade is somehow better than Dirk for not even having a very good season in the East and barely being able to beat Dirk in the Finals? WITH the refs handing him the victory?

And Dirk takes up the pf spot with his guard ways so whose fault is that. The fact that it is sooo hard to put a team around Dirk doesnt bode well for him. But Diop and Dampier arent that bad as far as centers go in the league.

It's not that hard.. the problem is they didn't do it through the draft.. AND Dirk is so underrated.. so freeagents don't want to play with him. That's not his fault.. it's racial bias. It's the same racial bias that says guys like LeBron, Kobe and Wade are better than Dirk despite less accomplishments and worse stats.

[LakersDynasty]

there are only sooo many good centers. There are 2, Shaq and Yao.

There are only so many good centers.. exaclty.. and Wade has 2 of the best ones in the elague. And yet Wade is somehow better than Dirk for not even having a very good season in the East and barely being able to beat Dirk in the Finals? WITH the refs handing him the victory?

And Dirk takes up the pf spot with his guard ways so whose fault is that. The fact that it is sooo hard to put a team around Dirk doesnt bode well for him. But Diop and Dampier arent that bad as far as centers go in the league.

It's not that hard.. the problem is they didn't do it through the draft.. AND Dirk is so underrated.. so freeagents don't want to play with him. That's not his fault.. it's racial bias. It's the same racial bias that says guys like LeBron, Kobe and Wade are better than Dirk despite less accomplishments and worse stats.
Please tell me how Dirk has more accomplishments than Kobe or even Wade?

[Younggrease]

there are only sooo many good centers. There are 2, Shaq and Yao.

There are only so many good centers.. exaclty.. and Wade has 2 of the best ones in the elague. And yet Wade is somehow better than Dirk for not even having a very good season in the East and barely being able to beat Dirk in the Finals? WITH the refs handing him the victory?

And Dirk takes up the pf spot with his guard ways so whose fault is that. The fact that it is sooo hard to put a team around Dirk doesnt bode well for him. But Diop and Dampier arent that bad as far as centers go in the league.

KG

It's not that hard.. the problem is they didn't do it through the draft.. AND Dirk is so underrated.. so freeagents don't want to play with him. That's not his fault.. it's racial bias. It's the same racial bias that says guys like LeBron, Kobe and Wade are better than Dirk despite less accomplishments and worse stats.

OK then tell me who would "compliment Dirk", and try not to list the players that I have ranked higher or equal to dirk.

Off limits

Duncan
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
KG

[sic]

Please tell me how Dirk has more accomplishments than Kobe or even Wade?

Dirk beat up a stationary bike which neither Kobe nor Wade have ever accomplished.

[JSub]

FabCasablancas:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/curiousg11/ziegheildirk.jpg

[BFRESH44]

Why am I an idiot? Who has EVER said Dirk is the best player in the league?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

?

HOW THE HELL DOES DIRK NOT BEING REFERRED TO AS THE SOLE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE CORRELATE TO A RACE ISSUE?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.





for people to say Dirk is the 5th best player in the league he has to be the actual best player in the league. That's how it works. If Dirk was actually the 5th best playe rin the league people would say he isn't in the top ten. Dirm is ALWAYS going to be underrated. That's just the way it is. You look at Dikr's stats over the past few years and NO has been as good as him as long as him. That's a fact. he has been the true MVP the past few seasons.. yet he's only the 5th or 6th best player? If Dirk was black there would be no debate.

OMG....:roll:

Shaquille O'Neal has won 1 MVP through-out the course of his career which is an NBA travesty.

1




.

And yet, you sitting trying to spit a case that Dirk is the most underrated player ever, and then trying spit some faulty ass logic bringing race into the issue too.

:roll:





Dummy? So you are saying guys liek Kobe, Wade and Lebron get somekind of pass because they are short? Because Dikr is 7 feet that's an unfair advantage? This is basketball nimrod.. yeah he's suppsoed to rebound.. because he's 7 feet! That's lie saying Shaq's post dominance doesn't count because he's 7 feet and 4 hundred pounds.. it's BECAUSE Dirk is 7 feet that he is better than these guys! I sware to god.. people are so assbackwards..

HE IS A POWERFORWARD, YOU IMBECILE

A powerforward should always have a SIGNIFICANT amount of more rebounds than a swingman/guard type player.




Doesn't matter.. they still can't compete with a 7 footer.. that's the point!

:confusedshrug:



BS.. this is where the race comes in.. you just assume this because of Dirk's race. NONE of these guys plays D. Kobe doesn't even cross half court half the time.. yet he is said to be one of the best defenders in the league. Someone at 82 games.com watched Kobe play D for a game.. and documented it.. he was atrocious. And it's like that all the time. LeBron and Wade are probably even worse.

It's evident you're not even worth addressing from this point on...You're a funny dude, my man.

[Kblaze8855]

You look at Dikr's stats over the past few years and NO has been as good as him as long as him. That's a fact.

No it isnt. Based strictly on numbers(eff) hes been over the last several years

6th
3rd
5th
6th
5th
9th

In the same time Duncan has been:


4
1
2
2
6
15

KG has been

1
1
1
1
3
3

Shaq has been

1
2
3
4
8
29

And since youre so big on who wins(once having told me every single player on a bad team is a bad player)....

Dirk won an average of 57 games. Duncan 59. Shaq 56. KG 47.

In that period of time Shaq won 3 titles and went to 5 finals. Duncan won 2 titles. Dirk made a finals and lost. KG made the WCF and lost.

If you want to go by numbers KG and Duncan have been better the last 6 years. By winning Shaq and Duncan. By a combo of the two Duncan and shaq come out ahead.

If you choose to ignore all but the last 3 years(wiping out the "as long as he has" part of your case) Shaq has been in the finals twice with a title and better numbers one of the years. Duncan the same though only one finals.

If you think Dirk is the best player over the last few years thats your right. But in no measurable way is he. Unless you choose to use "PER" in which case he is exactly tied with Lebron at 28.1 with Kobe at 28.0. And even then...he was never above 5th before last year.

I dont believe such numbers tell how good a player is and EFF sure as hell doesnt either. But its your belief not mine. If you want to look at Dirks stats hes never been the best player in the league. Sure as hell has not been over the last several years as you suggest.

[hotsizzle]

yup :cheers:

plz read the thread before agreeing with this hypocrite

[FabCasablancas]

OK then tell me who would "compliment Dirk", and try not to list the players that I have ranked higher or equal to dirk.

Off limits

Duncan
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
KG

Shaq
ZO
Big Z
Jermaine O'neal
Dwight Howard
Rasheed Wallace
Ben Wallace
Lamar Odom
Chris Bosh
Emeka Okafur
Elton Brand
Rober Horry would be great next to Dirk
Karl malone when he was playing

I could go on and on.. Dirk doesn't even need players as great as this.. all he really needs is several decent role playing big men. The Mavs haven't even been able to get a sufficient amount of these. Look at Duncan.. he had Robinson, Malik rose and Kevin Willis... Wade had Shaq, Zo and Walker.. Kobe had Shaq and Horry.

[JtotheIzzo]

I have nothing against what Wade said.

The NBA is all about rings (despite what groupies on here think).

Dirk should know better.

You can't talk until you get one and once you have one you can talk.

Barkley and Ewing were barred from card games on Dream Team One with Mike, Bird, Magic and them because they weren't sporting the proper jewelry.

If it were ISH Wade just pwned Dirk

[Vragrant]

I have nothing against what Wade said.


Barkley and Ewing were barred from card games on Dream Team One with Mike, Bird, Magic and them because they weren't sporting the proper jewelry.



Is this actually true?

:roll:

[FabCasablancas]

In the same time Duncan has been:


4
1
2
2
6
15

KG has been

1
1
1
1
3
3

Shaq has been

1
2
3
4
8
29

So then why are Wade and LeBron ranked over these guys? That'
s my point. But you also aren't including things like plus minus.. and which efficency ranking are you using? And are you using playoff games/ Win losses?

[b]And since youre so big on who wins(once having told me every single player on a bad team is a bad player)....

It doesn't amke them GOOD players to come from horrible teams..

Dirk won an average of 57 games. Duncan 59. Shaq 56. KG 47.

Yep.. see Dirk and Duncan.. top 2 players in the league over the past few years. Shaq played with Kobe..

In that period of time Shaq won 3 titles and went to 5 finals.

Playing with Kobe..

Duncan won 2 titles. Dirk made a finals and lost. KG made the WCF and lost.
Duncan did it with Robinson one year.. and Parker and Ginolbi the next..

If you want to go by numbers KG and Duncan have been better the last 6 years.

Not in the playoffs.. Dirk beat KG head to head.. or does that not matter?

By winning Shaq and Duncan. By a combo of the two Duncan and shaq come out ahead.

Not when you consider their teammates.. and Shaq has missed a ton of games.. and played with Kobe.. and the dream tema Lakers

If you choose to ignore all but the last 3 years(wiping out the "as long as he has" part of your case) Shaq has been in the finals twice with a title and better numbers one of the years. Duncan the same though only one finals.

Which is fine.. I would have a problem with Shaq and UCnan being ranked over Dikr.. Wade, Kobe and LeBron? I think NOT!

If you think Dirk is the best player over the last few years thats your right. But in no measurable way is he.

Wrong.. in measurable way are Wade or LeBron.. and if youwjust want to focus on alst season then it's clearly Dirk..

Unless you choose to use "PER" in which case he is exactly tied with Lebron at 28.1 with Kobe at 28.0. And even then...he was never above 5th before last year.

Actually Hollinger said Dikr was the bes tin the league last seaosn under the PER.. sounds like you are trying to fudge the numbers.. BUSH.

I dont believe such numbers tell how good a player is and EFF sure as hell doesnt either. But its your belief not mine. If you want to look at Dirks stats hes never been the best player in the league. Sure as hell has not been over the last several years as you suggest.

The players you list had better teammates. Dirk has done the most with the least.. more so than any other player.. that's a fact. The bottom line is that it certainly isn't Wade or LeBron. And Kobe isn't even in the conversation.. and the longer Wade plays with Shaq the same goes for him too.

Wade had a worse record than Dirk and he was in the East last season with a better tema. Same with LeBron.

Dirk and Duncan are the ONLY players eligible for best in the league. shaq is too lazy.

[JtotheIzzo]

Is this actually true?

:roll:

yes

[LakersDynasty]

Look at this ****ing hypocrite. :roll: First he's saying that Kobe makes all of his teammates worse, that he isn't a top 10 player, plays "atrocious defense" and then he uses Kobe as the reason to everything that Shaq has accomplished.

KBlaze: Shaq won 4 titles.

***: Played with Kobe.

Kblaze: Shaq won 56 games.

***: Played with Kobe.

KBlaze: Shaq had better stats.

***: Played with Kobe. :roll: :roll: :roll:

But Kobe is a pathetic player, right?

[eliteballer]

So we should call player who is only good at one aspect of the game(scoring, and when there are arguably 5-10 players better at that CURRENTLY in the league) better than a top 5-7 all-time player:rollingeyes:

[FabCasablancas]

You are right... that is true.. Kobe does make the players around him worse.. but Shaq did play with Horry. Shaq also played with Malone one season.

But Shaq is also officiated much much more biased than Dirk.. same with Duncan. So technically you could say Shaq is one of the top players because of his accomplishments.. but he shouldn't have been. That is one way Kobe did make the players around him better.. the hype factor -- the star factor. In reality though he makes them worse. If you were to take biased officiating out of it.

That's the truly amazing thing aobut dirk.. what he has accomplished in spite of being screwed by the officials since day one. Compare that to all the other stars in the league. If Dirk got the proper respect from officials he would probably be the clear best player in the leagu eover the past several years. There would be no debate. Hell of Dirk was black there wouldn't even be a debate with his curent accomplishments.

[hotsizzle]

dont take this idioit seriously anymore. he has no credibilty on this board..

[FabCasablancas]

You are the one who lost credibility TmacsOnegoodEye.. you never had that anyway though.. everyone knows you are full of BS.

[hotsizzle]

You are the one who lost credibility TmacsOnegoodEye.. you never had that anyway though.. everyone knows you are full of BS.

haha here we go again...

[Kblaze8855]

haha, i just realized who FabCasablancas is. He's a poster from dallasbasketball.com named 41ForMVP. He was just a Dirk groupie.

He made a thread about how Dirk is a norse god and how he kind of looks like Dirk and we found it and put it on dallasbasketball.com and pretty much retired him. It was the longest clowning in message board history. I think it went nonstop for 4 weeks.

Guys a dumbass and a racist, ignore him.

I tried to talk to him. I honestly did. I think ill take your advice though. Some people are beyond all reason.

Dirk fans may well be the worst fans in the modern sports world. not Mavs fans. Mavs fans are fine. But the people who love Dirk and seemingly hate the Mavs are probably the worst out there.

Like those jordan lovers inthe 90s who didnt care about the Bulls and acted like everyone he played with was somehow overrated to make him look better.

People who love a player and not a team are almost always unreasonable and annoying. The worst of the worst annoy even fans of the team he supports. Ive been to Dallasbasketball.coms forum. Miles had me there for some reason years ago. If you can get run off a forum like that for Dirk homerism you are on a whole other level.

[FabCasablancas]

We know who Kblaze is now...

[hotsizzle]

haha, i just realized who FabCasablancas is. He's a poster from dallasbasketball.com named 41ForMVP. He was just a Dirk groupie.

He made a thread about how Dirk is a norse god and how he kind of looks like Dirk and we found it and put it on dallasbasketball.com and pretty much retired him. It was the longest clowning in message board history. I think it went nonstop for 4 weeks.

Guys a dumbass and a racist, ignore him.

OWNED

do you still have that thread, would be great to retire him from ISH

[FabCasablancas]

Tmacs.. you aren't fooling anyone.. we know these are all your aliases..

How stupid do you think people are.. Remember when you told me you live in your moms basement typing on 3 different computers!

And TMOGE said he is some movie producer.. and Kblaze makes player mix vids.. just made a Dirk mix vid.. and then quotes TMOGE agreeing with his absurd posts...

You make it too obvious TMOGE..

And then Kblaze continues on with this same ridiculous complaint of "Dirk groupies".. which is completely stupid becaus eit is an oxymoron.. if there was suchg a thing as aDirk groupie he wouldn't be the most underrated player in NBA history.. he wouldn't have Mav fans embarrased to even say he might be the best player in the league.. why should they be mor eembarrased than Wade fans saying Wade is the best player in the league.

No one is obsessed with "Dirk groupisiism" as you TMOGE.

[JtotheIzzo]

Tmacs.. you aren't fooling anyone.. we know these are all your aliases..

How stupid do you think people are.. Remember when you told me you live in your moms basement typing on 3 different computers!

And TMOGE said he is some movie producer.. and Kblaze makes player mix vids.. just made a Dirk mix vid.. and then quotes TMOGE agreeing with his absurd posts...

You make it too obvious TMOGE..

TMOGE = KBlaze?

[JSub]

Tmacs.. you aren't fooling anyone.. we know these are all your aliases..

How stupid do you think people are.. Remember when you told me you live in your moms basement typing on 3 different computers!

And TMOGE said he is some movie producer.. and Kblaze makes player mix vids.. just made a Dirk mix vid.. and then quotes TMOGE agreeing with his absurd posts...

You make it too obvious TMOGE..

What? TMOGE = Kblaze? BRILLIANT :banghead:

[hotsizzle]

TMOGE = KBlaze?

haha fab thinks TMOGE = me, lakerdyansty, kblaze, bradmiller52, etc...

[JtotheIzzo]

haha fab thinks TMOGE = me, lakerdyansty, kblaze, bradmiller52, etc...

oh

[FabCasablancas]

That's Tmacs shtick.. post using so many aliases that people think it's impossible he is posting using so many aliases.. that's his whole game. All it takes is someone with no life.. TMOGE is just the one qualified for that challenge..

Now he will come on with all his other aliases and say "Kblaze is TMOGE? hahahahaha That's impossibel! How could he do that?"

[Kblaze8855]

Is this guy serious? Tmac made 25 thousand posts on the old ezboard as an alias? If theres an alias hes mine. I was around before he was.

If im him....maybe....im everyone who ever said Dirk isnt the best player in the NBA. Im several hundred people at once. Perhaps I argue with myself for hours on end for the last 5 seasons chiming in...on my other accounts...to agree with one of me...and disagree with the other. All for the purpose of making some dirk fan seem disrespected by more than just me. And I only started back in the 01/02 season to build the credibility needed to make claims that im also someone else look absurd.

Seems I think ahead. Way way ahead. I may well be 60-70% of ISH.

[FabCasablancas]

Is this guy serious? Tmac made 25 thousand posts on the old ezboard as an alias? If theres an alias hes mine. I was around before he was.

You said it.. So yKblaze is the original and TMOGE is the trash talker.. the enforcer poster.. to do dirty work..a nd defeat "Dirk groupies"

Pretty ironic you 2 have the same retarded goal in life.. to stoop "Dirk groupies".. which makes zero sense in the fisrt place.. considering Dirk is one of the least hyped players in the league.. how do you explain that little coincidence? And youa re both Cuban groupies.. coincidentally..

If im him....maybe....im everyone who ever said Dirk isnt the best player in the NBA.

Maybe youa re? You tell us..

Im several hundred people at once. Perhaps I argue with myself for hours on end for the last 5 seasons chiming in...on my other accounts...to agree with one of me...and disagree with the other.

Youa re jsut stupid enough to do somehting like that.. your stupidity isn't an alibi..

All for the purpose of making some dirk fan seem disrespected by more than just me. And I only started back in the 01/02 season to build the credibility needed to make claims that im also someone else look absurd.

Seems I think ahead. Way way ahead. I may well be 60-70% of ISH.

So Tmacs is your enforcer.. let's be honest here.. no one could be as dumb as TMOGE.,. it's obviously an act. And extreme side of your personality.

TMac.. you told me you live in your moms basement typing on 3 computers constantly.. you admitted it to me.. so we know any three people(at least)on ISH are you.. and they alternate constantly i am sure. The way you can tell it's Tmac is because he always has other people arguing defending him.. more than even he defends himself. Just like right now..

[LakersDynasty]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[AKA AAP]

I'm a Mavs fan and Dwyane was probably my favorite player that didn't play for the Mavericks until this crap but being honest if I didn't like the Mavs I would think it was funny.

I mean the Mavericks did disrespect dude during the Finals, hell I remember Josh Howard flat out saying he can't shoot during an interview. I also remember Darryl Armstrong saying he fakes his injuries(which I think he does). I mean if someone said this stuff about you you would be pissed too.

Finally, a rational Mavs fan (unlike tmoge and joewait). What Wade said wasn't even that bad...how can anyone figure the tone of voice through text? :confusedshrug:

It could of been just a friendly joke.




And, too many Kobe groupies hating on Wade because Kobe will retire with less Finals MVPs than Chauncey Billups. :roll: :pimp: :roll:

[final.wrath]

wade is already complaining about being utterly fatigued because of the world championships. does he have enough gas to repeat his playoff magic? and are teams still stupid enough to not use zone on him?

find out in the next episode of NBA basketball.

[FabCasablancas]

It isn't wade though, the problem is that teams are already zonging to cover Shaq, then they have to deal with Wade. It's the same with shaq and any decent guard.

[lakers-city]

he barely guarded dirk 1 on 1 and was in constant foul trouble. To say haslem shut dirk down is to say tayshaun prince shut kobe down.

prince DID shut kobe down, in an hummiliating manner no less, thanks for proving our point.

[lakers-city]

Why am I an idiot? Who has EVER said Dirk is the best player in the league? for people to say Dirk is the 5th best player in the league he has to be the actual best player in the league. That's how it works. If Dirk was actually the 5th best playe rin the league people would say he isn't in the top ten. Dirm is ALWAYS going to be underrated. That's just the way it is. You look at Dikr's stats over the past few years and NO has been as good as him as long as him. That's a fact. he has been the true MVP the past few seasons.. yet he's only the 5th or 6th best player? If Dirk was black there would be no debate.


wrong on all acounts.

1. dirk wasnt MVP in 2005, shaq was.
2. dirk wasnt mvp in 2006, either kobe or lebron were.
3. dirk isnt the best in the league, kobe, lebron, wade are better than him.


Dummy? So you are saying guys liek Kobe, Wade and Lebron get somekind of pass because they are short? Because Dikr is 7 feet that's an unfair advantage? This is basketball nimrod.. yeah he's suppsoed to rebound.. because he's 7 feet! That's lie saying Shaq's post dominance doesn't count because he's 7 feet and 4 hundred pounds.. it's BECAUSE Dirk is 7 feet that he is better than these guys! I sware to god.. people are so assbackwards.



.this is where the ish hits the fen., a fracking power forward is SUPOSED to rebound better than a freakin shooting guard, are you really that stupid ? the same can be said about why wade, lebron and kobe average more assists than dirk, because they handle the ball more, 1+1=2.





BS.. this is where the race comes in.. you just assume this because of Dirk's race. NONE of these guys plays D. Kobe doesn't even cross half court half the time.. yet he is said to be one of the best defenders in the league. Someone at 82 games.com watched Kobe play D for a game.. and documented it.. he was atrocious. And it's like that all the time. LeBron and Wade are probably even worse.

:roll: :roll: :roll: dirk's race has nothing to do with his bs defense, bird was white and acknowledge as a good team defender, dirk cant defend for sheit and thats a fact, kobe has been all defensive 1st team 4 times already.




Pat Riley signed Walker.. so did Don Nelson.. we would probably still have Walker if we didn't have Dirk.. the Heat don't have another PF so Walker fits right in. When Wlake ris on he is a big game player. He helped them win that championshiop. There is no doubt.


he still isnt better than howard or terry.



That's why Terry went 2 of 11 from 3 point range while Dirk had 2 Heat defenders glued to his butt. Your stats are a joke..

the so called " best in the league" should score easily against 2 defenders, jordan did it, olajuwon did it, shaq did it.

[MaxFly]

This thread is hilarious... an instant classic... and again, FabCasablancas is in the middle of the fray. I wonder who will side with him this time.

[TiMavericks21]

Sorry but Bird doesnt lose like that in the finals. Just doesnt happen. Maybe Bird starts actually steping up and taking charges or something. Also dude would just laugh at HAslem trying guard him. He would either score on him or pick apart the psuedo zone they were throwing with his Amazing passing ability. I more of a MAgic fan than a Bird fan, but give the man his respect. Bird was better than Dirk at everything. But most importantly he was a much BETTER LEADER.

Dirk has never claimed to be a leader, he leads by example but people just assume that the best player on a team is automatically a leader. Leaders are born, not made.

And to rebuke your comments, Dirk was refereed completely different than Wade was, regardless of their style of play. They allowed physical play against Dirk during the Finals(Halsem, Walker and Posey all pushed him around), which will obviously hurt his because he is a finesse player and bangin' is not his game. On the other end, everytime Wade gets breathed on, literally, a foul was called. I'm not blaming the Finals loss on that because the Mavs had their opportunities, but there has to be consistency with the way the FINALS are officiated. It was an unbelievably poor job. Stern should just be truthful about it instead of trying to protect his refs.

[TiMavericks21]

Haslem/Posey did a damn good job on Dirk, that no one can say otherwise.

Yes, because physical play was allowed. Dirk would catch the ball 15-20 feet out and Haslem/Walker/Posey already were pushing him and had their hands all over. If they allow that kinda play, fine, but then you can't call EVERYTHING at the other end, which they did.

[telephone]

w/e a new season is about to start. New slate for everyone. New slate for dirk wade etc etc. Dirk can easily come back and shut up wade by winnnig a ring this season. He and the mavs did it last year so they can come back and do it again. And what is so wrong with people saying what they think of a person? IF dirk thinks that "he was just let through" obviously b/c they didnt want fouls called on them then let him say it. Wade doesnt even need to respond to that. He should just dismiss it and the only way Dirk can prove that is by facing miami in the finals again or just winning a damn ring b/c proving it in the regular season wont work cus miami wasnt all that great in the regular season last year when the mavs creamed them.

[Money 23]

Well, that wasn't that bad of "trash talk"... even so, with Wade, it was probably done in light hearted jest. Not with malicious intent. Wade's a nice guy. Plus, he is right in what he said though. And Wade did dominate the Mavericks, no matter how you cut it.

[KingofKings718]

LOL. They'll likely meet again in the Finals, so we'll see what's really good.

[TiMavericks21]

I think he means that 28 yr old Kobe is better than 45 yr old Jordan.

Dirk is not overrated his is rated right where he should be. About 5 or 6 in the league. Dude plays no defense and has played on stacked teams and was never able to get a championship and only managed 1 finals apperance. You would think after TMAC layed the blueprint on how to stop Dirk, he would expand his game, obviously he didnt.

Until Dirk gets a post game, he will get shut down when it matters by the same type of defense the Rockets and HEat played.

Just put a player tall and agile. Like TMAC, Ryan Bowen, Jefferies, HAslem and have them contest his jumpers and be physical with him. Then he is taken out of his game.

So because Dirk has one bad series, all of a sudden T-Mac is laying blueprints, and Ryan Bown is a tall and agile defensive stopper huh? Good points. If I recall, Dirk was guarded in Rounds 1,2 and 3 this year by guys that are tall, agile and good defenders. I would say he faired pretty well against Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen and Shawn Marion. So your theory just goes right out the window right there. Make a valid point for once in your life.

[Money 23]

If you get physical with Dirk, he gets rattled. It was visible all through out the NBA Finals. I can't imagine what he would do if he was playing in the 90's.

[R.I.P.]

Wade was asked about the ESPN interview in which Nowitzki seemed to hint Dallas allowed Wade to slice through its defense rather than Wade doing with his own ability.

READ folks, READ. ESPN assumes that Dirk hinted toward the fact that the Mavs let Wade slice through their defense. What Dirk probably hinted at, was that every time they touched him or gave him a strange look he got a foul call. Of course the gutless media would put a little different spin to it, and Wade would get all sensitive, because he got stripped naked in the World Championships and deep down inside knows Stern served him a title on a silver plattern. He can talk all the crap he wants, but he knows he truth.

[joewait]

Ok, let me explain my point as clearly as possible, since a bunch of people here aren't too intelligent. Never once did I say Dirk or Kobe is a greater player than Bird or Jordan, considering the latter dominated their eras. My point is that when Jordan came in the league, everything he did was new. Barely anyone else could do what he does. Well Kobe has mastered everything Jordan did, AND he has better range. it's not that complicated to understand or fathom, it really isn't. same goes for Dirk. Back then a 6'9'' forward with long range skills was rare, and now it simply isn't that rare. if you can't poissbly begin to understand that, you're either not very intelligent and/or you've never played basketball. Any coach or former player can tell you this is the case. The competition is simply too good now and the league has more players and teams (including more good players) that it's not possible for any one or two players to just dominate the league. If you can't see that, you're probably not the brightest guy out there. Just watch a game from the 80s, and it looks like slow motion compared to now.

[TiMavericks21]

I can agree with all except Dirk.
In fact i would put KG, Elton Brand,TMAC above Dirk.


You just lost all respect, and I don't even know you. What has T-Mac done, he's never been past the 1st round of the playoffs? Elton Brand, very solid player, he'd be in my Top 10, no way better than Dirk. His Clippers are just as talented as the Mavs, and yet where have they gotten? Being a good player is all about where you get your team. Dirk has watched all of his teammates(Nash, Finley, Walker, Jamison, Van Exel) ALL LEAVE DALLAS, and yet his team hasn't won less than 52 games since 2000-01. Who do you think is responsible for that? Think before you speak.

[TiMavericks21]

If you get physical with Dirk, he gets rattled. It was visible all through out the NBA Finals. I can't imagine what he would do if he was playing in the 90's.


Exactly, because it's a completely different game now. But that's my point, the NBA referee's can't just suddenly decide to allow physical play during the NBA Finals(for one team only) when it hasn't been allowed in years. They did that, allowed physical play against Dirk(which Haslem/Posey/Walker did). I wouldn't even care so much if they allowed physical play from Dallas against Miami, but we all know what happened there.

[Knoe Itawl]

Ok, let me explain my point as clearly as possible, since a bunch of people here aren't too intelligent. Never once did I say Dirk or Kobe is a greater player than Bird or Jordan, considering the latter dominated their eras. My point is that when Jordan came in the league, everything he did was new. Barely anyone else could do what he does. Well Kobe has mastered everything Jordan did, AND he has better range. it's not that complicated to understand or fathom, it really isn't. same goes for Dirk. Back then a 6'9'' forward with long range skills was rare, and now it simply isn't that rare. if you can't poissbly begin to understand that, you're either not very intelligent and/or you've never played basketball. Any coach or former player can tell you this is the case. The competition is simply too good now and the league has more players and teams (including more good players) that it's not possible for any one or two players to just dominate the league. If you can't see that, you're probably not the brightest guy out there. Just watch a game from the 80s, and it looks like slow motion compared to now.

I'm going to start calling people who say this kind of thing liars.

Jordan came back THREE YEARS AGO at 40 and at one point was putting up numbers only two other players in the league were.............Kobe and TMac. Further he had knee surgery that year as well. Still dropped 50,40 several times, etc. etc.

If there was such great competition now (bullshyt) and all of that, there is NO WAY a 40 year old man, on a bum knee, two years removed from NBA competiton would be able to put up the numbers he did. NO WAY.

So it is no stretch to assume that a prime Jordan would have fared just as well or BETTER (I say better given these new perimiter rules).

Lastly, NO perimeter player in the league currently has ever been through anything like the Bad Boy Pistons or early 90s Knicks teams. Hell, even some of those Miami teams were brutal defensively.

Oh, and please tell me about all the great centers there are in the league right now as compared to the 80s/90s. The big man post game has all but dissapeared. Have you ever watched basketball from that period or just highlights here and there?

Either counter every point I just made intelliegently, or stop talking nonsense.

[Younggrease]

Exactly, because it's a completely different game now. But that's my point, the NBA referee's can't just suddenly decide to allow physical play during the NBA Finals(for one team only) when it hasn't been allowed in years. They did that, allowed physical play against Dirk(which Haslem/Posey/Walker did). I wouldn't even care so much if they allowed physical play from Dallas against Miami, but we all know what happened there.

Dallas is too soft to play physical. And thanks for admitting that Dirk is soft. HE gets rattled by physical play.

[TiMavericks21]

Wade gets to talk sh!t about Dirk until the day Dirk takes the title from him (which aint gonna happen anytime soon).

You're right, because he won't be there to defend it.

[Money 23]

I'm going to start calling people who say this kind of thing liars.

Jordan came back THREE YEARS AGO at 40 and at one point was putting up numbers only two other players in the league were.............Kobe and TMac. Further he had knee surgery that year as well. Still dropped 50,40 several times, etc. etc.
Thank You!!!


If there was such great competition now (bullshyt) and all of that, there is NO WAY a 40 year old man, on a bum knee, two years removed from NBA competiton would be able to put up the numbers he did. NO WAY.
Yes there could, cause he's the GOAT...


So it is no stretch to assume that a prime Jordan would have fared just as well or BETTER (I say better given these new perimiter rules).
Well, let's do the math...

If 39/40 year old Jordan gave players today fits...

When 'comeback' Jordan, minus the athleticism, dominated Kobe and everyone else...

There is no way anyone in the League could see a 1985 - 1993 Michael Jordan. No way, no how...


Lastly, NO perimeter player in the league currently has ever been through anything like the Bad Boy Pistons or early 90s Knicks teams. Hell, even some of those Miami teams were brutal defensively.
Yup. It's easy to score with out a players hand on your hip, and ability to shift you with his upper body. THAT's DEFENSE. THAT's a CHALLENGE. Jordan put up his numbers against defenses like that. And did so, in a more effecient manner, than Kobe does now. Imagine if Jordan had these pansy rules to work with on the permiter... dude could average 40 ppg.

[JtotheIzzo]

How come that team got markedly better the minute Jordan left?

[joewait]

Thank You!!!


Yes there could, cause he's the GOAT...


Well, let's do the math...

If 39/40 year old Jordan gave players today fits...

When 'comeback' Jordan, minus the athleticism, dominated Kobe and everyone else...

There is no way anyone in the League could see a 1985 - 1993 Michael Jordan. No way, no how...


Yup. It's easy to score with out a players hand on your hip, and ability to shift you with his upper body. THAT's DEFENSE. THAT's a CHALLENGE. Jordan put up his numbers against defenses like that. And did so, in a more effecient manner, than Kobe does now. Imagine if Jordan had these pansy rules to work with on the permiter... dude could average 40 ppg.

and you're conveninetly ignoring the fact the guys guarding him on the pistons then were considerably shorter and less athletic than the ones now. Dumars was 6'3'. thats the same height as Billups. Good job

[TiMavericks21]

Dallas is too soft to play physical. And thanks for admitting that Dirk is soft. HE gets rattled by physical play.


I don't understand the point your making here. If you're trying to suggest that Dirk doesn't have a "physical game", you are 100% correct, but who doesn't know that. Saying he's soft, why, because he doesn't bang downlow with PF's. That's not his game. What is your point? The point is, the NBA hasn't allowed physical play for years, why do you think finesse players like Kobe, T-Mac, Dirk, Wade now dominate the game. However, SUDDENLY in the NBA FINALS(of all places), they start to allow physical play against Dirk, after not allowing it all year and all postseason? ADDITIONALLY, THEY ALLOW NO PHYSICALITY ON WADE. So tell me, what is your point? That Dirk gets rattled by physical play? Who doesn't? If they allowed the same physical play that they allowed on Nowitzki, on Wade, it's a completely different series. He doesn't go to the FT line 16 times a game, the Heat aren't champions.

[Knoe Itawl]

How come that team got markedly better the minute Jordan left?

Actually one of the years Jordan was there the Wiz went on an 11 game winning streak and were well on their way to the playoffs until Rip went down for an extended period of time with an injury, all but ruining their chances. Further, Jordan had knee surgery which caused him to miss time and bothered him for his tenure there. There was a time when he was one of the frontrunners for MVP.

But this isn't about how good the team was and all of that. This is about the FACT that a 40 year old Jordan on a bum knee was putting up numbers on par with today's top perimeter players.

Something that should have been impossible according to joewaits argument that the competition today is soooooooo much better. That argument is pure garbage and holds zero weight when you examine all of the evidence.

Now, I answered your question. Why don't you try refuting my points if you don't agree?

[Money 23]

Yeah, but Dumars was still a good defender. And the physicality of it all, more than makes up for less athleticism. Hell, that does more damage than contested shots due to athleticism. Jordan faced Clyde Drexler, Gerald Wilkins, etc. all very athletic players, and he torched them as well. What's your point? He torched Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, etc. back in 2001 - 2003. Why wouldn't he be able to completely destroy them with prime athletic ability?

[Younggrease]

I don't understand the point your making here. If you're trying to suggest that Dirk doesn't have a "physical game", you are 100% correct, but who doesn't know that. Saying he's soft, why, because he doesn't bang downlow with PF's. That's not his game. What is your point? The point is, the NBA hasn't allowed physical play for years, why do you think finesse players like Kobe, T-Mac, Dirk, Wade now dominate the game. However, SUDDENLY in the NBA FINALS(of all places), they start to allow physical play against Dirk, after not allowing it all year and all postseason? ADDITIONALLY, THEY ALLOW NO PHYSICALITY ON WADE. So tell me, what is your point? That Dirk gets rattled by physical play? Who doesn't? If they allowed the same physical play that they allowed on Nowitzki, on Wade, it's a completely different series. He doesn't go to the FT line 16 times a game, the Heat aren't champions.

Kobe doesnt get rattled by physical play and the refs let RAja get physical with him. You guys didnt foul Wade hard one time, that the MAvs fault. They never even tried to play phyical. You guys would just let him waltz in for a layup. They should have gave him some hard fouls especially Dirk but he didnt because he is soft.

If the Mavs werent soft than the HEat arent champions. The Heat got lucky in the sense that they played the Mavs. BEcause the Spurs or Suns would have beat them.

[JtotheIzzo]

Kobe doesnt get rattled by physical play and the refs let RAja get physical with him. You guys didnt foul Wade hard one time, that the MAvs fault. They never even tried to play phyical. You guys would just let him waltz in for a layup. They should have gave him some hard fouls especially Dirk but he didnt because he is soft.

If the Mavs werent soft than the HEat arent champions. The Heat got lucky in the sense that they played the Mavs. BEcause the Spurs or Suns would have beat them.

Stackhouse got sent packing for a game for a 'hard' foul, what series were you watching?

[Knoe Itawl]

and you're conveninetly ignoring the fact the guys guarding him on the pistons then were considerably shorter and less athletic than the ones now. Dumars was 6'3'. thats the same height as Billups. Good job

the Pistons were more than just one player it was a SYSTEM. They came up with Jordan Rules where the WHOLE TEAM was supposed to focus on Michael FIRST, then the rest of the Bulls. But even aside from that Dumars was a hell of a defender. It's not always height. How do you think Bowen has been able to disturb players taller than him? Or Rodman was able to agitate Shaq from time time?

Further their frontline was probably the most intimidating ever. Those 90s Knicks teams were close as well.

Jordan still got his on all of those teams, and no perimieter player in the league today has gone up against anything like that.

[Knoe Itawl]

Kobe doesnt get rattled by physical play and the refs let RAja get physical with him. You guys didnt foul Wade hard one time, that the MAvs fault. They never even tried to play phyical. You guys would just let him waltz in for a layup. They should have gave him some hard fouls especially Dirk but he didnt because he is soft.

If the Mavs werent soft than the HEat arent champions. The Heat got lucky in the sense that they played the Mavs. BEcause the Spurs or Suns would have beat them.

Oh well. The result is Finals MVP and a 35ppg series for Wade and only the bitter will try to take away from that. Besides, I thought Shaq would NEVER win another title without Bryant??? :confused:

[Younggrease]

Stackhouse got sent packing for a game for a 'hard' foul, what series were you watching?


He fouled Shaq, why not wade Wade some tough fouls. One hard foul could have changed the series. I was saying it all series long. I knew they were going to give Wade bs fouls, so I would make sure I got my moneys worth on my fouls. He would have hit the deck mad hard every time he went to the basket.

[Younggrease]

Oh well. The result is Finals MVP and a 35ppg series for Wade and only the bitter will try to take away from that. Besides, I thought Shaq would NEVER win another title without Bryant??? :confused:

why are you bringing that argument into this thread...Im not taking anything away from Wade

[Money 23]

Wade did his thing... took over, dominated, and got his CHIP...

What does that have to do with Kobe Bryant? Kobe is just as good (probably better) than Dwyane Wade.

[joewait]

the Pistons were more than just one player it was a SYSTEM. They came up with Jordan Rules where the WHOLE TEAM was supposed to focus on Michael FIRST, then the rest of the Bulls. But even aside from that Dumars was a hell of a defender. It's not always height. How do you think Bowen has been able to disturb players taller than him? Or Rodman was able to agitate Shaq from time time?

Further their frontline was probably the most intimidating ever. Those 90s Knicks teams were close as well.

Jordan still got his on all of those teams, and no perimieter player in the league today has gone up against anything like that.

You really don't follow. Ok, well we know back then there were fewer teams and no free agency and physical play was allowed. Are you somehow trying to tell me the Pistons of 03-04, if allowed to play with the brute physicality of the 80s teams could, wouldn't be able to do what the bad boys did to jordan? just look at the guys size, height, athletcism. I guarantee you they could have done that. Do you think Kevin garnett or any of the other big guys now with absurdly long reaches couldn't have done what they did in the 80s? Power forwards back then were like 6'8''. Jesus Christ. I don't see how Ewing would guard any power forward now, they'd all run circles around him. All the guys now have the skill set to succeed in the 80s if the rules changed. Difference is you cannot say that about the guys then, if they were to play now. And thats a fact

[Da KO King]

I'm sorry but how exactly is Wade talking trash?

Dirk says it was Dallas' poor defense and not Wade's ability that won the series for the Heat. What exactly is Wade supposed to say?!?

"Oh, didn't realize they were having so many defensive breakdowns. That cheapens what I did so here's the trophy back?"

To me its simply Wade stepping on their sour grapes.

[Knoe Itawl]

You really don't follow. Ok, well we know back then there were fewer teams and no free agency and physical play was allowed. Are you somehow trying to tell me the Pistons of 03-04, if allowed to play with the brute physicality of the 80s teams could, wouldn't be able to do what the bad boys did to jordan? just look at the guys size, height, athletcism. I guarantee you they could have done that. Do you think Kevin garnett or any of the other big guys now with absurdly long reaches couldn't have done what they did in the 80s? Power forwards back then were like 6'8''. Jesus Christ. I don't see how Ewing would guard any power forward now, they'd all run circles around him. All the guys now have the skill set to succeed in the 80s if the rules changed. Difference is you cannot say that about the guys then, if they were to play now. And thats a fact

I'm done with you. You've failed to refute the points I've made are now just saying anything.

I will leave you with one thing, and that is that if you equate athleticism BY ITSELF with basketball greatness, you're a fool. Also, if you don't think there were athletic players in the 80s and 90s and magically in the past 8 years or so all these super athletes have arrived, you're also a fool.

[Money 23]

Yeah, I really don't see it as Wade talking greasy...

[Knoe Itawl]

I'm sorry but how exactly is Wade talking trash?

Dirk says it was Dallas' poor defense and not Wade's ability that won the series for the Heat. What exactly is Wade supposed to say?!?

"Oh, didn't realize they were having so many defensive breakdowns. That cheapens what I did so here's the trophy back?"

To me its simply Wade stepping on their sour grapes.

This makes too much sense for your average simpleton with a hardon for Wade to understand.

[Younggrease]

You really don't follow. Ok, well we know back then there were fewer teams and no free agency and physical play was allowed. Are you somehow trying to tell me the Pistons of 03-04, if allowed to play with the brute physicality of the 80s teams could, wouldn't be able to do what the bad boys did to jordan? just look at the guys size, height, athletcism. I guarantee you they could have done that. Do you think Kevin garnett or any of the other big guys now with absurdly long reaches couldn't have done what they did in the 80s? Power forwards back then were like 6'8''. Jesus Christ. I don't see how Ewing would guard any power forward now, they'd all run circles around him. All the guys now have the skill set to succeed in the 80s if the rules changed. Difference is you cannot say that about the guys then, if they were to play now. And thats a fact

Sorry but Ewing would be the best big in the game right now sans Duncan if he was in the League. He wouldnt be guarding pf because he is a center. And there is not one center in the league that can guard EWing,

Even your hero Dirk wouldnt be anything special in the learly 90's. He wouldnt even be a top 10 player.

[EricForman]

and you're conveninetly ignoring the fact the guys guarding him on the pistons then were considerably shorter and less athletic than the ones now. Dumars was 6'3'. thats the same height as Billups. Good job


look fool, if you are implying just because Dumars was shorter, that meant his D aren't on par with today's, you're a fool. Stop being ignorant. Anyone with eyes saw the clips of the 80s Pistons on Jordan, they fouled him, hard everytime he jumped, there were actually video evidence of Laimbeer putting Jordan in a headlock, slapping him in the head, etc as Jordan is going up. People wrap Jordan up the minute he leaves the ground, shoves, pushes, etc. There is no way any unbiased fan can say that it's harder to score on today's defense than on the 80s Pistons or 90s Knicks.

You're also a fool for thinking Kobe has mastered EVERYTHIHNG Jordan had AND Kobe has better range. If you put it like that, you're basically saying Kobe is straight out BETTER THAN JORDAN. Considering Kobe mastered every part of Jordan's game plus Kobe has better range. That's just a dumb ass comment, again, no unbiased fan can say Kobe has "mastered" all of Jordan's skills and strengths.

Finally, the fact that Jordan at 40 could still put up damn good numbers, the numbers Jordan put up at age 39 and 40 were low by his standards, but they would be considered "career best numbers" for all but about 10 players in the league right now. FORTY YEARS OLD. For him to do that at 40, you'd have to be f*cking ignorant, stupid AND retarded to think a 25 year old Jordan couldn't dominate today's league when he could put up 23, 5, 5 at age FORTY.

[Kblaze8855]

Jordan in 02 got hurt around the all star break and because he didnt want to quit on the team played through much of it and only put up 16ppg and played just 28 minutes after the break. But before it....

25/6/5.3 and he was getting better. Working into shape. he month just before he got hurt he averaged a rounded off 27/7/5.

Kobe for the year put up a rounded up 25/6/6 and Jordan before he went down put up...25/6/5. jordan slightly up in blocks. Both with 1.48 steals. And Kobe played more minutes. Jordan was at 25/6/5 in under 35 minutes a game. Kobe has not played minutes that low since 1998. Kobe shot better from the field that year. But Jordan was not the Jordan of old. He was old Jordan. He was out there hesitating to dunk because he didnt want to miss.


This "era" **** has gotten totally out of control when people think Michael Jordan would fail to do anything these days. Wade just led a team to a title while being worse than Jordan at literally every single phase of the game. And thats something often said but rarely true. But Jordan in his prime was a better midrange, outside, and in the lane shooter, a better defender in the post and outside, a better passer, rebounder, and really...everything. Well I guess MJ didnt have Wades crossover but a crossover and ball handling arent the same thing. Jordan was better than Wade at getting where he wanted to be. And thats enough ball handling for me.

If Jordan 12-15 years removed from his physical peak in a stage of his life he had to be all skills and could barely even dunk could put up 25/6/5 in a league that had basically every current great player aside from Lebron and Wade how is an equally skilled but far more athletic Jordan going to fail to dominate?

Jordan had comp to equal anyones. Nobody in this league now that Kevin Willis is gone has even played a team the equal of the Showtime Lakers or Birds Celtics. Well no. is cliff still around in NJ? If so...no star has played them. None of these guards have had to beat Dumars and/or Rodman to go into the lane and get knock the **** out by Laimbeer and have them get away with it. Nobody today is going into the lane and running into centers like Hakeem/Drob/Mutombo in his prime/Zo/Ewing and so on.

And Jordan played when despite getting favored by the refs he couldnt get the calls Wade, AI, Bron, and Kobe do. The rules have changed in their favors. NBA allows a zone but teams dont really use it well and teams in the 80s used it too they just got away with it(unless they were playing Pat Riley who loved to point it out to refs when his own team wasnt using one).

You cant even handcheck a guy anymore. Much less all the **** Rodman, Moncrief, Jones, Gerald Wilkins, Starks, Dumars, nance, DJ, and such did to MJ. And the athletic difference between the best modern outside defenders and MJs isnt big. The best man to man defender now is probably Bruce Bowen who is hardly an athletic freak. Hes just determined, with good fundamentals, and allowed to play alllllllmost like 90s defenders could. So there is prince. There was Bobby Jones, Gerald Wilklins, Spider Smith(with his 7'6'' wingspan) and Larry Nance who guarded everyone from 2-5. Nance athletically may have no current better of his build. Closest would be Josh Smith. Nance wasl ike 6'10'' both fast and quick(difference) with hops like few ive ever seen.

There are tough bigmen like Ben Wallace now. No current center is either as athletic or skilled on D as Hakeem and Drob were. Or Ewing for that matter if you use pre injury Ewing. Which bigmen now are better disrupting an offense than Zo was? Or Mutombo?

How many pointguards now are better defenders than Gary Payton was? Or Alvin Robertson? Or Derek Harper? How many swingmen are better defenders than Pippen, Jordan, Rodman(who was a swingman type early and the best 3/4 defender later), Cooper Moncrief, and so on? How many 4s are better defenders than Oakley, Williams, and Mccray? I can think of 2. And Jordan played both.

Is this all D team:

Ben
Bowen
AK
Artest
Kidd
Kobe(they had 6 last year with a tie)

really better than this one from 10 years ago?

Payton
Jordan
Pippen
Rodman
Drob

?

And its not like Jordan played all old guys who dont play now. Or bad comp period. He played Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, Tmac, AI, Kidd, Pierce, Webber, KG and all them. In fact he played 9 of the 11 people currently on the all D team. And 11 of the 15 all NBA players. Not to mention Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Zo, Ewing, Isiah, Drexler, Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Kareem, Mchale, Nique, Grant Hill, Penny, Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Kemp, LJ, Mullin, KJ, Reggie Miller and more.

Jordan isnt one of those "era" guys. Even if someone thought he was the fact that he played against every great player to enter the NBA in the last 22 years aside from Lebron and Wade should kill that idea. And if anyone still wasnt convinced seeing a 38-39 yearold Jordan on bad knees robbed of his athletic ability and playing just 35 minutes put up 25/6/5 in 2002 should have left no doubt.

Michael Jordan in any setting is Michael Jordan. If he played and dominated any and everyone in his path in a prime including some of the greatest defenders and scorers in basketball history I doubt hed crumble in the face of the mighty shutdown D of Tayshaun Prince and Ron Artest or the amazing offensive talents of Wade and Lebron.

Michael Jordan in his prime dominated the 80s and 90s. MJ after his prime was among the best in the 2000s when healthy. You could drop MJ in his prime into the 2255 NBA and watch him put up 32/6/6 vs 7'3'' shooting guards with Dirk range and KG athletic ability.

Hes Michael Jordan. End of story.

[Bourne]

Which bigmen now are better disrupting an offense than Zo was? Or Mutombo?


Hoffa. He'll get you offensive 3 seconds, illegal screens, and offensive fouls all the while going 0 for 4.

[Zombles]

Wade's turning into a cocky sonuva*****.

[Knoe Itawl]

Great great post blaze. Any non point by point rebuttal is an admission that it's on the money.

[Kblaze8855]

I wouldnt expect a point by point thing anyway. Even I wouldnt do anything point by point to something that long. Maybe in 03. not now.

Besides the type of fan to think MJ is inferior to current players doesnt care about reason in the first place. I was talking more to other people than to him.

And im not even sure its craziest thing ive seen him say. Hes got a stockpile of crazy comments to rival anyone ive ever known online or not.

[Money 23]

Haha, Kblaze just wrecked his ****. Thanks for backing up my main man MJ...

[Loki]

Ok, let me explain my point as clearly as possible, since a bunch of people here aren't too intelligent. Never once did I say Dirk or Kobe is a greater player than Bird or Jordan, considering the latter dominated their eras. My point is that when Jordan came in the league, everything he did was new. Barely anyone else could do what he does. Well Kobe has mastered everything Jordan did, AND he has better range.

Your argument falls apart at the bolded premise. It's demonstrably false imo; at the very least, it's not demonstrably true, and so you should know better than to make such a claim.


Dumars was 6'3'. thats the same height as Billups. Good job

Vince Carter circa 2002, Slam magazine: "Joe Dumars is the toughest defender I've ever faced."


Jordan in 02 got hurt around the all star break and because he didnt want to quit on the team played through much of it and only put up 16ppg and played just 28 minutes after the break. But before it....

25/6/5.3 and he was getting better. Working into shape. he month just before he got hurt he averaged a rounded off 27/7/5.

Jordan actually averaged 26.2/6.3/5.2 before the all-star break. At nearly age 39. Believe me, I did the math. :D Awesome post, btw.

[gengiskhan]

damn

2013 wade is lot different from 2006 Wade.

2013 wade. slow, weak, disinterested, just going through the motions,

& most importantly. does not talk trash to opponents!

[Balla_Status]

Dallas is too soft to play physical. And thanks for admitting that Dirk is soft. HE gets rattled by physical play.

:biggums: