Rank these Five moves in order of dominance and effectiveness [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Yung D-Will

12-20-2009, 01:00 PM

Rank these in order of dominance and effectiveness
1. Hakeem Dream Shake
http://www.planetabasketball.com/media/fotos/hakeem-olajuwon/1.jpg
2. Kareem Skyhook
http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/4290-1/kareem-sky-hook-image.jpg
3. Tim Duncan Bank shot
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/chris_ballard/06/07/duncan/t1_duncan.jpg
4. Shaq Drop Step
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2008/writers/marty_burns/02/06/suns.trade/p1.shaq.jpg
5. Jordan Fade Away
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1214/nba_g_mjordan_400.jpg

And do you agree that these are the five most unstoppable moves in Nba History?

If you don't add another and we'll see where it falls

Dresta

12-20-2009, 01:15 PM

Hakeems Dream Shake is number 1. Sky hook is 2nd, then the rest.

Yung D-Will

12-20-2009, 01:16 PM

Hakeems Dream Shake is number 1. Sky hook is 2nd, then the rest.

In what order =O

GilZero

12-20-2009, 01:21 PM

Yung D-Will

12-20-2009, 01:28 PM

1. Kareem Sky hook

(GAP)

2. Hakeem Dream shake
3. Shaq drop step
4. Jordan fade away

5. Duncan bank shot

The Sky hook is in a league of its own, and timmy's bank shot is overrated (though he is underrated as a player at the moment).

How? Tim Duncan's bank shot may not be flashy but it's as effective as anything I've seen. It's dependable and it works time and time again. What more could you ask out of a signature move even when Duncan's having a bad game he can still hit that move.

indiefan23

12-20-2009, 01:38 PM

1. Kareem Sky hook

(GAP)

2. Hakeem Dream shake
3. Shaq drop step
4. Jordan fade away

5. Duncan bank shot

The Sky hook is in a league of its own, and timmy's bank shot is overrated (though he is underrated as a player at the moment).

Hmm... I think the sky hook would not be as effective today since athleticism jumped so much right when Kareem was retiring. It could still be #1 though. Whats ironic is that people see highlights of the sky hook and just think KAJ hit them out at the perimeter at the same rate others ht layups. It wasn't like that. And an athletic weak side defender like Josh Smith would be able to make it much less effective.

I think the Dream Shake was pretty much as good as it gets cuz Hakeem was able to create so much space for himself with it. He got a clean look every single time. However, I'm not sure if they beat Jordan's turn around considering how much more likely he was to draw a foul on it before he actually pulled off his shot.

I think the Shaq drop step and the banker are not really unstoppable moves as Robinson showed you could stop Shaq and Timmy beat you with everything else, not the banker, which was just a nice go to to embarrass you when you weren't paying attention.

dirkdiggler41

12-20-2009, 01:48 PM

How? Tim Duncan's bank shot may not be flashy but it's as effective as anything I've seen. It's dependable and it works time and time again. What more could you ask out of a signature move even when Duncan's having a bad game he can still hit that move.

Jeff Van Gundy said in a game that he was commenteting that Duncan's FG% on the bankshoot is not that high and coaches wants him to shoot it. It is more of a hyped shoot to make him sort of special. His game is kind of boring, and not flashy enough, so to make him a bit cooler for the casual fan, they made a big thing out of the bank shoot.

Anyway, Dream did not really use the dream shake much or is it just me?

I have to go with Sky hook and then MJ's fadeaway.

Sorry for the english, not my first language

indiefan23

12-20-2009, 02:18 PM

Jeff Van Gundy said in a game that he was commenteting that Duncan's FG% on the bankshoot is not that high and coaches wants him to shoot it. It is more of a hyped shoot to make him sort of special. His game is kind of boring, and not flashy enough, so to make him a bit cooler for the casual fan, they made a big thing out of the bank shoot.

Anyway, Dream did not really use the dream shake much or is it just me?

I have to go with Sky hook and then MJ's fadeaway.

Sorry for the english, not my first language

I recall Dream going to the Shake over and over again in multiple championship runs. It was unstoppable.

bomber

12-20-2009, 02:21 PM

Shaq's dropstep is underrated. In his prime it was the most dominant move of all time.

OldSchoolBBall

12-20-2009, 02:24 PM

Jordan averaged 30 ppg on 50% shooting on like 80% fadeaways, so that's no worse than #2. I'd go:

Kareem Sky-hook
MJ fade
Hakeem dream shake/Shaq drop step (tie)
Duncan bank shot

GilZero

12-20-2009, 02:30 PM

How? Tim Duncan's bank shot may not be flashy but it's as effective as anything I've seen. It's dependable and it works time and time again. What more could you ask out of a signature move even when Duncan's having a bad game he can still hit that move.

The FG% of his bank shot is around 35%, can't find the link though, people overrate it to the max just because it is a bank shot.

Yung D-Will

12-20-2009, 02:33 PM

The FG% of his bank shot is around 35%, can't find the link though, people overrate it to the max just because it is a bank shot.
Please show me the link cause I really don't believe that one. For his career 35% ?

Kblaze8855

12-20-2009, 02:42 PM

Hmm... I think the sky hook would not be as effective today since athleticism jumped so much right when Kareem was retiring. It could still be #1 though. Whats ironic is that people see highlights of the sky hook and just think KAJ hit them out at the perimeter at the same rate others ht layups. It wasn't like that. And an athletic weak side defender like Josh Smith would be able to make it much less effective.

Athletic weak side defenders didnt do much then I dont see what they would do now. Besides Kareem was great passing out of the double and at 7'3'' in shoes he could always see over his man. Hed know if Josh were uncontested gathering himself to go up and try to block it.

Plus with like a 9'6'' standing reach and solid athletic ability in his youth he could take it from so high help D didnt matter. Josh Smith isnt gonna be in position to jog up and jump to his peak 20 times a game. And if he were...Kareem saw his share of shot blocking forwards.

A guy like Josh, or Larry Nance, or Ralph Sampson doesnt come out of nowhere to a guy his size who can see the whole floor. Hes gonna know where they are. And how long would a coach allow them to go up uncontested before instructing his own forwards to put a body on them to keep them on the ground while Kareem was operating?

The shot was simple but coming from a man his size who worked on it as much as he did it wasnt easily stopped. I only caught Kareem at the tail end and he was getting it off every single time.

indiefan23

12-20-2009, 02:46 PM

Athletic weak side defenders didnt do much then I dont see what they would do now. Besides Kareem was great passing out of the double and at 7'3'' in shoes he could always see over his man. Hed know if Josh were uncontested gathering himself to go up and try to block it.

Plus with like a 9'6'' standing reach and solid athletic ability in his youth he could take it from so high help D didnt matter. Josh Smith isnt gonna be in position to jog up and jump to his peak 20 times a game. And if he were...Kareem saw his share of shot blocking forwards.

A guy like Josh, or Larry Nance, or Ralph Sampson doesnt come out of nowhere to a guy his size who can see the whole floor. Hes gonna know where they are. And how long would a coach allow them to go up uncontested before instructing his own forwards to put a body on them to keep them on the ground while Kareem was operating?

The shot was simple but coming from a man his size who worked on it as much as he did it wasnt easily stopped. I only caught Kareem at the tail end and he was getting it off every single time.

I didn't say ineffective, I said less effective. I think theres a huge difference between Josh Smith and Larry Nance, especially within the bench ranks. Either way, its all moot.

Did you make this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7VWCXog_E

I don't want to argue with you if you did.

Real Men Wear Green

12-20-2009, 03:06 PM

Jabbar being the #1 scorer in NBA history has to mean something. Prime Shaq was unstoppable but it wasn't about the move so much as the man and the size, strength, and explosiveness he was bringing to the hole. I suppose, at Shaq's peak, that no one could deal with that, but when it was "Shaq Attack" time there was nothing you could do about any of it. I think Chamberlain's finger roll should be mentioned, but that's something I read about more than actually viewed...I just figure that, if they had to change the width of the paint to keep him from making the game ridiculous it must have been something, especially with his insane athletic ability. I'd rate them:

1. Chamberlain and the finger roll. Forced a rule change.
2. KAJ and the sky hook.
3. Shaqness.
4. Dreamshake
5. "Slippery Eel." Was it a travel? Yes. Tough ****.

Kblaze8855

12-20-2009, 03:08 PM

I did.

And Larry Nance pretty much was Josh Smith athletic ability wise. Ive seen Larry Nance literally throat high to the rim.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/nba.dunk.contest.winners/images/1984-larry-nance.jpg

http://www.ihra.com/photos/2005/news/1018nance1.jpg

And Ralph Sampson was 7'4'' with like a 9'8'' standing reach and a vertical 34-36 inches.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/1981/0330_large.jpg

Nobody today is gonna get higher to block a shot. Guys like Travis Outlaw, Josh Smith, and so on could get in a similar range but nobody is gonna show Kareem anything hes not seen.

RoseCity07

12-20-2009, 03:08 PM

Jordan averaged 30 ppg on 50% shooting on like 80% fadeaways, so that's no worse than #2. I'd go:

Kareem Sky-hook
MJ fade
Hakeem dream shake/Shaq drop step (tie)
Duncan bank shot

This.

indiefan23

12-20-2009, 03:23 PM

I did.

Well, I don't really want to get into a whole thing about 2 dimensional images and angles, but posting pictures to prove how high people get is not really relevant. They train photographers to sit on the floot and take pics from their nutz to maximize the appearance that athletes are jumping out of the gym.

Anyway cuz it's JS's ability to move laterally from the weak side and behind the ball that I was talking about, and he was just an example as I said, I think the lower ranks on the bench have increased athletically since the 80's many times over. Kareem played in an era that was all before defenses really tightened in the 90's, however I'm still not sure how they compare to today's defenses that got weakened by the rules so much. still not sure

That being said, I still think Kareems's sky hook would only be less effective. I was only around for the tail end too but it was brutally effortless. How would it shine vs the bad boys or the knicks of the 90's? It's a good question.

Anyway, I don't care, that 'Nique mix is bloody fantastic. Where do you get your source video's from? Gotta say, you've got a talent for creating the vids too. It's not just clips, you see the evolution of the player. Good work. :)

Kblaze8855

12-20-2009, 03:45 PM

You can watch Larry Nance in any dunk contest and see him head level or better. He did a cradle dunk from like 14 feet in the warmups for the 85 contest where he was clearly headlevel. He was just getting ready and damn near did a free throw line rock the cradle dunk eyes near rim level. He could still get rim level on the Cavs.

And Ralph...he was 7'4'' and clearly athletic. Its suprising how could get his arms that high? He could damn near touch the rim on his toes. Hed only need a 24 inch vertical to go to the top of the square. He was likely able to reach 13 feet.

And the nobodies who dont play being more athletic doesnt really impact anything. You nearly never see one on one post moves blocked by help D in the positions Kareem was in. Josh Smith would have a man to defend too and all it takes it putting a body on him to keep him from jumping. On a sky hook that has a clear build up and is game planned? You think a coach just allows a guy to jog up gather himself and jump up to 12 feet to block a sky hook over and over when all you need to do is body him?

Its a lot easier in theory than reality.

And I have so many sources for clips I cant remember them. They just come to me when I need them. I have like 20-30 sites, 5-6 programs, tapes all over the place, dvds, and so on.

NY-Knicks

12-20-2009, 04:58 PM

anyone mention the pull up jumper yet?

GilZero

12-20-2009, 05:04 PM

Please show me the link cause I really don't believe that one. For his career 35% ?

Yeah it said for his career, or it was the playoffs, or just regular season, I don't remember :confusedshrug: Can't seem to find it the link anyhow, so guess I can't use that argument with the FG%.

I still rank it number 5, maybe 4 if the percentage is good, which I don't know, anyhow - great move.

:cheers:

Yung D-Will

12-20-2009, 05:04 PM

I did.

And Larry Nance pretty much was Josh Smith athletic ability wise. Ive seen Larry Nance literally throat high to the rim.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/nba.dunk.contest.winners/images/1984-larry-nance.jpg

One of his legs looks like he take steroids the other one looks like a skinny leg wtf O.O

GilZero

12-20-2009, 05:06 PM

One of his legs looks like he take steroids the other one looks like a skinny leg wtf O.O

I think it's his arm that blocks the light towards that leg, which causes it to lose all definition lol.

Pimpdaddy311991

12-21-2009, 09:37 AM

Shaq's dropstep is underrated. In his prime it was the most dominant move of all time.

It really was along with the sky hook u couldnt stop it

kshutts1

12-21-2009, 09:39 AM

My problem with Shaq's dropstep was shown perfectly in the picture. It's an offensive foul, each and every time... too bad the league CHANGED THE RULES to make it legal.

chocolatethunder

12-21-2009, 09:51 AM

I didn't say ineffective, I said less effective. I think theres a huge difference between Josh Smith and Larry Nance, especially within the bench ranks. Either way, its all moot.

Did you make this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7VWCXog_E

I don't want to argue with you if you did.

I hope you mean that Larry Nance is twice the player and just as athletic. Because if that's not what you meant, then you never saw Nance play.

chocolatethunder

12-21-2009, 09:55 AM

Well, I don't really want to get into a whole thing about 2 dimensional images and angles, but posting pictures to prove how high people get is not really relevant. They train photographers to sit on the floot and take pics from their nutz to maximize the appearance that athletes are jumping out of the gym.

Anyway cuz it's JS's ability to move laterally from the weak side and behind the ball that I was talking about, and he was just an example as I said, I think the lower ranks on the bench have increased athletically since the 80's many times over. Kareem played in an era that was all before defenses really tightened in the 90's, however I'm still not sure how they compare to today's defenses that got weakened by the rules so much. still not sure

That being said, I still think Kareems's sky hook would only be less effective. I was only around for the tail end too but it was brutally effortless. How would it shine vs the bad boys or the knicks of the 90's? It's a good question.

Anyway, I don't care, that 'Nique mix is bloody fantastic. Where do you get your source video's from? Gotta say, you've got a talent for creating the vids too. It's not just clips, you see the evolution of the player. Good work. :)
You're so off base I don't know where to begin.

How can you defend a hook shot from a guy that's 7'3"? You can't. It was the most effective shot in the history of basketball. You can't just jump up and block that shot. It's almost impossible.

That Nance and Josh Smith comment is laughable.

Harison

12-21-2009, 10:51 AM

Kareem Sky-hook
THE most unstoppable and dominant move, there are legends about FEW(!) such blocked shots, and Kareem used this move very often.

MJ fadeaway - It was amazing how efficient MJ fade was, along with extreme hang in the air (I remember how his defender jumped AFTER MJ to try to block the shot but landed BEFORE MJ did, couldnt do anything).

Hakeem dream shake
Shaq drop step

Both are great moves, Shaq has an edge on efficiency, but Hakeem has an advantage in skill and less reliant on athleticism.

<large gap>

Duncan bank shot - why its in the conversation? Garnett with Dirk do it better and more efficiently.

MMKM

12-21-2009, 11:25 AM

That second dunk pic of Nance is :eek:

In terms of being indefensible, KAJ Sky Hook.

In terms of the highest percentage, Shaq's drop step. It was pretty much a guaranteed 2 or a trip to the foul line. So I'd have to go with the Diesel.

As for the dream shake and Jordan's fadeaway, both great moves for each player, but unless you are Hakeem Olajuwon or Michael Jordan, the fadeaway jumper is one of the worst shots in basketball.

Kevin McHale's Up and Under, Jack Sikma's "Sikma Move," and Kobe's up and under in the post get honorable mentions.

Yung D-Will

12-21-2009, 02:13 PM

Soopa

12-21-2009, 02:24 PM

Good list.

Kobe Bryant's Jumpshot:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2676/koberesized1wb6.jpg

It's the ability to rise up and shoot over any defender, any contest, anywhere past halfcourt. It is the same jumpshot that has netted Kobe so many scoring binges and historic records. The deadliest jumpshot of all time.

Dasher

12-21-2009, 02:25 PM

Scottie Pippen's Bank shot was more effective than Timmy's.

The Sky Hook is #1. It is one of the few things in sports that can't be overrated.

The Shaq drop step is #2, followed by the MJ Fade away, and The Dream Shake.

HM:The Killer Crossover-Tim Hardaway

Dasher

12-21-2009, 02:38 PM

Wilt Chamberlain's Big Dipper, Earl Monroe's Spin Move, and The Finger Roll were possibly more dominant than some of the moves listed.

Yung D-Will

12-21-2009, 02:40 PM

Dasher

12-21-2009, 02:41 PM

I was gonna put A.I'S crossover in thereAI's crossover does not really compare to Timmy's. After executing his crossover AI was often off balance and out of control. Timmy was always in control after finishing his cross, and his cross did not rely on palming the ball as much.

jjayfive

12-21-2009, 02:42 PM

the sky hook is unblockable....

Brunch@Five

12-21-2009, 03:35 PM

move so much as the man and the size, strength, and explosiveness he was bringing to the hole.

you can say that about most moves listed. MJ's fadeaway without his quickness and jumping ability is nothing. Kareem's sky-hook without being 7'3 and having freakishly long arms is not that effective.

I've got a question about Hakeem's "dream shake". What move exactly is it? Is it the move he embarassed DRob with? Did he do that more than once?

Dirk's pull-up fade-away jumper off one leg has to be mentioned too, it's just as unblockable as Kareem's sky hook, though he does not hit it with as high a percentage

Mr Clutch Melo

12-21-2009, 03:39 PM

I was gonna put A.I'S crossover in there

A.I crossover is not effective, he mostly ends up shooting a tough off-balance shot.

ShaqAttack3234

02-24-2010, 11:38 PM

1.Kareem's sky hook/Shaq's drop step
3.Jordan's fadeaway
4.Hakeem's dream shake
5.Duncan's bank shot

IMO Duncan's jump hook and turnaround shots are more effective than his bank shot.

Fatal9

02-25-2010, 12:04 AM

Kareem still torched Sampson with skyhooks and post moves for most of that '86 series and he was like 39 years old :oldlol:

1.Kareem's sky hook/Shaq's drop step
3.Jordan's fadeaway
4.Hakeem's dream shake
5.Duncan's bank shot
This. Though I think the Sky Hook is clearly #1. It's so versatile too. He can do it with or without dribbling, can put it in from the baseline or anywhere in the paint and even as far back as the FT line, and it can't be effectively double teamed because Kareem can simply turn without dribbling and go to the hook.

ShaqAttack3234

02-25-2010, 12:19 AM

Kareem still torched Sampson with skyhooks and post moves for most of that '86 series and he was like 39 years old :oldlol:

This. Though I think the Sky Hook is clearly #1. It's so versatile too. He can do it with or without dribbling, can put it in from the baseline or anywhere in the paint and even as far back as the FT line, and it can't be effectively double teamed because Kareem can simply turn without dribbling and go to the hook.

If I had to choose one, I'd probably pick the sky hook, but to me, Shaq's drop step was about as unstoppable as it gets because he'd be so close to the basket and he'd have the hops and power to usually finish with a dunk.

bdreason

02-25-2010, 12:36 AM

I'll go with:

Kareem Hook
Dream Shake
Shaq Drop Step
MJ Fader
Duncan Banker

DeuceWallaces

02-25-2010, 12:50 AM

I agree except I would switch one and two.

asu77golf

02-25-2010, 12:58 AM

What about the crazy moves Kevin Mchale had in the post?

Swaggin916

02-25-2010, 01:32 AM

What about the crazy moves Kevin Mchale had in the post?

Up and unders? Yea but those can be stopped... all you have to do is not bite on the fakes. Sky hook could not be stopped... put a body on a guy and a shot like that is unblockable. He probably could have been 6'6 and still got that off with ease against 7 footers. The fact that he was 7'3 combined with that shot... get out of here nobody is blocking that.

I was playing a couple weeks ago and this 6'5 white guy was doing em and I remember i was thinking about trying to block one and then realized it was impossible. I'm only 5'11 but still even if I was his height there was just no way even if I timed it just right I don't think I could have blocked it.

AznBBoyX

02-25-2010, 01:53 AM

1. Crab dribble

dyna

02-25-2010, 02:05 AM

1. Kareem Sky hook

2. Jordan fade away
3. Hakeem Dream shake
3. Shaq drop step

4. Duncan bank shot

Gifted Mind

02-25-2010, 02:36 AM

Haye's turnaround deserves a mention.

west

02-25-2010, 02:51 AM

Kareem's can do a lefty hand skyhook too.

plowking

02-25-2010, 02:54 AM

I'll take Shaq's drop step at number one...

Anyone who has it lower than the dream shake is kidding themselves. I'll take the powerful dunk at near 60% over the fancy spin and shot at 50%.

DeuceWallaces

02-25-2010, 02:56 AM

Up and unders? Yea but those can be stopped... all you have to do is not bite on the fakes. Sky hook could not be stopped... put a body on a guy and a shot like that is unblockable. He probably could have been 6'6 and still got that off with ease against 7 footers. The fact that he was 7'3 combined with that shot... get out of here nobody is blocking that.

I was playing a couple weeks ago and this 6'5 white guy was doing em and I remember i was thinking about trying to block one and then realized it was impossible. I'm only 5'11 but still even if I was his height there was just no way even if I timed it just right I don't think I could have blocked it.

But when you always make them jump it's unstoppable.