Kevin Garnett or Charles Barkley

[pierce2008mvp]

Who was better?

[Splitz77]

KG. duh.

[KG5MVP]

lets ask charles barkley that question

[Magic Vinsanity]

Charles in his prime was better than KG in his prime.

[KG5MVP]

Charles in his prime was better than KG in his prime.

KG's prime better than most players prime

[Magic Vinsanity]

KG's prime better than most players prime

Yep, maybe so, but not better than Charles.

[oh the horror]

Man, i'd have to say Charles. Even in his later years, dude was producing pretty hefty numbers.

[Jacks3]

I'd go with KG and his vastly superior defense.

[nbastatus]

Barley was good. But I'd rather have a taller PF just for the defense advantage.

[Meticode]

Charles Barkley's offensive game was slightly better than Garnett's.

Garnett's defensive game is leaps and bounds better than Barkley's ever was.

Kevin Garnett is the better overall player to me.

[RaceBannana]

Garnett.
Barkley was a better rebounder and ballhandler.... but ballhandling isn

[KG5MVP]

[QUOTE=RaceBannana]Garnett.
Barkley was a better rebounder and ballhandler.... but ballhandling isn

[Batman]

Easil Kevin Garnett. He was probably the greatest HS prospect ever.

[Roundball_Rock]

Charles Barkley's offensive game was slightly better than Garnett's.

Garnett's defensive game is leaps and bounds better than Barkley's ever was.

Kevin Garnett is the better overall player to me.

This.

[Meticode]

Easil Kevin Garnett. He was probably the greatest HS prospect ever.

I don't want to say anything. Do you mean player? Or are you meaning something different from saying prospect or highly scouted? Just wondering because the first thing I think of when I hear high school is Kobe and LeBron.

[KG5MVP]

I don't want to say anything. Do you mean player? Or are you meaning something different from saying prospect or highly scouted? Just wondering because the first thing I think of when I hear high school is Kobe and LeBron.

Lebron is best highschool prospect ever, but kobe is after KG

[White Chocolate]

*waits for Sir Charles*


Anyway, prime Barkley was better. When he put effort into defense, he was the best player in the league after Jordan. He was obviously lazy on D, but him being a 6'5" PF was often a disadvantage. Garnett could play 3-5 and being 6'11", very long arms, and very athletic, he caused many problems for other teams. In terms of skills, Barkley gets the slight edge. As for who I would rather have on my team, I'd rather have KG.

[Bernie Nips]

Haha, my two favourite players... sheesh. To me, KG is almost Charles mark 2.

Not in terms of playstyle or anything like that... but just the way their careers went. Both selected number 5. Both played amazingly well on teams that couldn't couldn't cut it. Both got traded to contenders.

The difference being, KG got the ring. So I guess I'd give the slight edge to KG.

[pierce2008mvp]

It is interesting to note how KG never had good teams until he came to Pierce while Barkley had guys like Moses Malone, Dr J, Kevin Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde drexler and Prime Pippen and couldn't win.

[Magic Vinsanity]

It is interesting to note how KG never had good teams until he came to Pierce while Barkley had guys like Moses Malone, Dr J, Kevin Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde drexler and Prime Pippen and couldn't win.

Barkley also played in an era when there were more great teams in the NBA with tons more great players. These days there are usually no more than 3-5 legit contenders, sometimes less, per year. Back in the there there were less teams overall and more teams who were contenders.

[Roundball_Rock]

It is interesting to note how KG never had good teams until he came to Pierce while Barkley had guys like Moses Malone, Dr J, Kevin Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde drexler and Prime Pippen and couldn't win.

:roll:

Barkley never had prime Pippen--or prime Hakeem or prime Drexler or prime Moses or prime Dr. J.

[Soopa]

*waits for 'CB4GOATPF'*

[cotdt]

wakka wakka

[pierce2008mvp]

:roll:

Barkley never had prime Pippen--or prime Hakeem or prime Drexler or prime Moses or prime Dr. J.

:wtf:

Have you ever watched a game before? Barkley certainly had prime Hakeem, Drexler. Everyone was expecting a Rockets vs Heat Matchup in 1997 as people felt Pippen would choke on the Bulls in the playoffs. Which he did, but still Harper had to step up to guard Pippen's guy.

[White Chocolate]

:wtf:

Have you ever watched a game before? Barkley certainly had prime Hakeem, Drexler. Everyone was expecting a Rockets vs Heat Matchup in 1997 as people felt Pippen would choke on the Bulls in the playoffs. Which he did, but still Harper had to step up to guard Pippen's guy.


Are you high? Dream and Clyde were well past their primes in 1997, let alone 1999.

[chitownsfinest]

:wtf:

Have you ever watched a game before? Barkley certainly had prime Hakeem, Drexler. Everyone was expecting a Rockets vs Heat Matchup in 1997 as people felt Pippen would choke on the Bulls in the playoffs. Which he did, but still Harper had to step up to guard Pippen's guy.
:wtf:
Is this a joke? The Bulls were clear favs to make it back to the finals in the 97. I remember SI came out with article in the season stating how the Bulls were bad for the NBA due to how good they were and how they were expected to easily repeat. Pippen's back got messed up after his game winning dunk in game 3 in the first round and that, along with a foot injury, caused him to miss most of game 5 in the ECF but he actually was playing well before it. Both him and MJ shot relatively poorly in that series but the Heat were a extremely phyical team that you had to grind out with to defeat. Pippen had his best non first three peat finals performance that year as well.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Barkley.

[Roundball_Rock]

:wtf:

Have you ever watched a game before? Barkley certainly had prime Hakeem, Drexler. Everyone was expecting a Rockets vs Heat Matchup in 1997 as people felt Pippen would choke on the Bulls in the playoffs. Which he did, but still Harper had to step up to guard Pippen's guy.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Regarding Pippen:

[QUOTE]
June 09, 1997
Extending Himself
Not even You Know Who has been more valuable than Scottie Pippen in the Bulls' postseason run

Just after his team had defeated the Utah Jazz in the opening game of the NBA Finals on Sunday, Scottie Pippen stood at mid-court in the United Center waiting for Michael Jordan to finish an interview with NBC. While Jordan was recounting his game-winning jumper over Bryon Russell, Pippen pumped his fists and celebrated along with the crowd of cheering Chicago Bulls fans. Only after Jordan was finished did Pippen step in front of the camera.

For the better part of 10 years in Chicago, picking up four NBA championship rings and two Olympic gold medals along the way, Pippen has played the role of Jordan's sidekick. And though Jordan's basket knocked another outstanding effort by Pippen out of the headlines, [B]Pippen's performance on Sunday certified that he

[liljohnnywall]

Lebron is best highschool prospect ever, but kobe is after KG

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1008078/index.htm


May 1996


"I think it's a total mistake," says the Boston Celtics' director of basketball development, Jon Jennings, who opposes any schoolboy's going pro. " Kevin Garnett was the best high school player I ever saw, and I wouldn't have advised him to jump to the NBA. And Kobe is no Kevin Garnett."



In all fairness. There is a difference between most hyped and greatest. LeBron is the most hyped HS player. I heard Kareem was pretty hyped back in the day in HS, I know OJ Mayo was for sure. but the best HS prospect ever is easliy

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/kobeowen130/JohnWall.jpg

[CB4GOATPF]

Charles Barkley's offensive game was slightly better than Garnett's.

Garnett's defensive game is leaps and bounds better than Barkley's ever was.

Kevin Garnett is the better overall player to me.

:no:

Barkley:

Season ORT: 119
Season DRT: 105
Play-Off ORT:118
Play-Off DRT: 107

Garnett

Season ORT: 111
Season DRT: 99
Play-Off ORT: 106
Play-Off DRT: 100

Barkley was WAY SUPERIOR OFFENSIVELY and Garnet was Superior Defensively by a Smaller Margin than Barkley being Superior to Garnett Offensively

Barkley Top 10 All Time in EFF, PER Season Play-Offs, Statitical Plus/Minus. In his Peek only Jordan and Hakeem where better. No one else.

[CB4GOATPF]

It is interesting to note how KG never had good teams until he came to Pierce while Barkley had guys like Moses Malone, Dr J, Kevin Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde drexler and Prime Pippen and couldn't win.

[B]U must remember the DIFFERENCE OF LEVEL OF ERA AND COMPETITION :hammerhead:

Barkley played in the Golden 80s and 90s. Superior Era than Today

[Showtime]

KG's prime better than most players prime
You never saw his prime lol

[Abraham Lincoln]

Lebron is best highschool prospect ever, but kobe is after KG

Close, but behind Wilt Chamberlain & Lew Alcindor.

[liljohnnywall]

Close, but behind Wilt Chamberlain & Lew Alcindor.

wilt plays in the worse era in the league. he could barely shoot fts. John Wall is the greatest prospect ever. they has never been a guard who is ball handling abilities athletism, body control, playmaking skills. Kentucky will be the first college team to go 40-0

[04mzwach]

KG, the better rebounder, no contest.

[magnax1]

KG-
Defense
Passing
Rebounding
Winning
Barkley-
Clutch
Scoring
Why is this even an argument?

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

lets ask charles barkley that question He usually refers to himself as the 2nd best PF behind Duncan, with Malone 3rd.

[CB4GOATPF]

KG, the better rebounder, no contest.

:roll: :rolleyes:

[B]Barkley

[plowking]

Barkley.

Really you picked the 76er player again? How shocking... :oldlol: :rolleyes:

KG for me.

[godofgods]

Barkley.

[plowking]

Really you picked the 76er player again? How shocking... :oldlol: :rolleyes:

KG for me.

Duncan>Malone>Garnett>Barkley in terms of greatness/rankings.

I do think that Malone was the best player out of all of them, Duncan simply has the championships.

[CB4GOATPF]

Duncan>Malone>Garnett>Barkley in terms of greatness/rankings.

I do think that Malone was the best player out of all of them, Duncan simply has the championships.

In terms of Broken Down Stats, Efficiency, Rating, Statistical Plus/Minus

1-Barkley
2-Duncan
3-Malone
4-Garnett

strange no othe PF outlayed a healthy Barkley and even as an old 34-36 year old dude with back and knee injuries he owned Duncan and Garnett

[Bernie Nips]

Like I've said before, I find those 4 virtually interchangeable in order for the best Power Forwards. The way I have it is:

1. KG
2. Barkley
3. TD
4. Malone

But I wouldn't argue against any other order. I just think KG does more on the court than any of the other 3. He can rebound with the best of them, block with the best of them, he's the only one of those 4 to average anywhere near 6 assists per game, he's a very solid scorer and he can even steal as good as any other big man. Plus I would say he's the best defender of the 4.

[White Chocolate]

Prime Barkley
Career Garnett


This.

[che guevara]

Duncan>Malone>Garnett>Barkley in terms of greatness/rankings.

I do think that Malone was the best player out of all of them, Duncan simply has the championships.
If we're just comparing prime vs prime, I feel like Malone was the worst player out of them. He put up great number, but he just couldn't get it done. And let's not pretend like he never had good teams.

I choose KG over Barkley if we're comparing their primes, but just barely.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

Regarding Pippen:



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1010198/index.htm

Your other claim is laughable. Everyone knows none of those players were in their primes when they played with Barkley (except Johnson). I wanted to correct the Pippen comment because unfortunately too many people have bought the myths people like you have peddled about Pip.
Can you please explain how Pippen was as valuable as MJ in the '97 playoffs?

[oh the horror]

wilt plays in the worse era in the league. he could barely shoot fts. John Wall is the greatest prospect ever. they has never been a guard who is ball handling abilities athletism, body control, playmaking skills. Kentucky will be the first college team to go 40-0


If John Wall asked you to give him head....You'd do it, wouldnt you? Be honest.

[plowking]

Like I've said before, I find those 4 virtually interchangeable in order for the best Power Forwards. The way I have it is:

1. KG
2. Barkley
3. TD
4. Malone

But I wouldn't argue against any other order. I just think KG does more on the court than any of the other 3. He can rebound with the best of them, block with the best of them, he's the only one of those 4 to average anywhere near 6 assists per game, he's a very solid scorer and he can even steal as good as any other big man. Plus I would say he's the best defender of the 4.

How could you possibly have Malone last? He has the best career averages despite playing the longest, arguably the best prime avg 31, 11, 3 on 56% shooting, tied with most MVP's, and about as much success in terms of winning anyone outside of Duncan.

Malone is underrated as hell. He has a very good case for best PF ever.

[che guevara]

wilt plays in the worse era in the league. he could barely shoot fts. John Wall is the greatest prospect ever. they has never been a guard who is ball handling abilities athletism, body control, playmaking skills. Kentucky will be the first college team to go 40-0
English, please.

[plowking]

If we're just comparing prime vs prime, I feel like Malone was the worst player out of them. He put up great number, but he just couldn't get it done. And let's not pretend like he never had good teams.

I choose KG over Barkley if we're comparing their primes, but just barely.


Can you please explain how Pippen was as valuable as MJ in the '97 playoffs?

31ppg, 11rpg, 3apg, 2spg on 56% shooting and 76% shooting from the line.

I'll take that over Charles': 28, 12, 3, 1 on 58% and 75%.
Take it over Garnett's: 24, 14, 5, 2 on 50% and 79%
I won't bother with Duncan, because it would be considered blasphemy on this board.

And no, its not all about numbers, he was simply more impactful.

[che guevara]

31ppg, 11rpg, 3apg, 2spg on 56% shooting and 76% shooting from the line.

I'll take that over Charles': 28, 12, 3, 1 on 58% and 75%.
Take it over Garnett's: 24, 14, 5, 2 on 50% and 79%
I won't bother with Duncan, because it would be considered blasphemy on this board.

And no, its not all about numbers, he was simply more impactful.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140017

I'd rather you read that thread than debate this, because it's off-topic, and I'm not nearly as good at debating this stuff as kblaze.

[CB4GOATPF]

[B]Malone was never as good as a Prime Barkley. I saw it live. People keep repeating and i laugh at this.

Barkley

[Bigsmoke]

Barkley was WAY SUPERIOR OFFENSIVELY and Garnet was Superior Defensively by a Smaller Margin than Barkley being Superior to Garnett Offensively

[/B]


are u ****ing kidding me? Barkley was a better offensive player but KG is no Chuck Hayes. KG actually lead the league in total points before. Barkley never on his whole career was in the All Defensive Team.

an Offense that was good enough to lead the league in total points > lazy unreliable defense

[D.J.]

Barkley was the better individual talent, but I would still rather have Garnett. Barkley took many plays off on defense, which in turn hurt his team. There was nothing Garnett did that Barkley could do not do, but he hurt his team a lot with his laziness.

[Harison]

Charles Barkley's offensive game was slightly better than Garnett's.

Garnett's defensive game is leaps and bounds better than Barkley's ever was.

Kevin Garnett is the better overall player to me.
This.

[CJ Mustard]

1. Barkley
2. Malone
3. KG
4. McHale
5. Dirk

[CB4GOATPF]

are u ****ing kidding me? Barkley was a better offensive player but KG is no Chuck Hayes. KG actually lead the league in total points before. Barkley never on his whole career was in the All Defensive Team.

an Offense that was good enough to lead the league in total points > lazy unreliable defense

[B]Wan

[CB4GOATPF]

Main reason why Garnett was inferior to Barkley on offense because of his lack of aggression. Barkley was very aggressive when he played and Garnett was passive. So I think that the offensive difference wasn't as big, at least compared to the defense.

Even when Barkley felt like playing defense, sometimes it wouldn't matter because of his size.

[B]The difference is Barkley was MORE TALENTED and SKILLED than Garnett.

Barkley was A 6

[redhonda76]

Main reason why Garnett was inferior to Barkley on offense because of his lack of aggression. Barkley was very aggressive when he played and Garnett was passive.


Bingo. I can't believe it took 4 pages of this thread and finally someone hit it on the nail. Barkley would put his team on his back to win the game unlike KG who often disappeared in the clutch moments. Sure, KG had 1 or 2 moments but in his prime, he just wasn't there when his team needed him at the majority of the times.
You would think a guy who is 6'10 athletic pf with good range should be much better than a 6'4 undersized pf. Barkley was a freak and a monster in the paint which KG was never was and never will be.

My top PF of all time.
Duncan #1
Barkley #2

[Harison]

Bingo. I can't believe it took 4 pages of this thread and finally someone hit it on the nail. Barkley would put his team on his back to win the game unlike KG who often disappeared in the clutch moments. Sure, KG had 1 or 2 moments but in his prime, he just wasn't there when his team needed him at the majority of the times.
You would think a guy who is 6'10 athletic pf with good range should be much better than a 6'4 undersized pf. Barkley was a freak and a monster in the paint which KG was never was and never will be.

My top PF of all time.
Duncan #1
Barkley #2
Imagining much? Garnett is as clutch as Duncan in the offense (if you dont believe, go look their data, as well as their championship run), and even better in the clutch defense. So yes, Garnett carried his team to the rings, and even with the Wolves was losing only to much better teams, and even then not without a fight, like almost singlehandedly won over Kings, and gave prime Shaq/Kobe a run for their money.

What exactly Barkley achieved with the super stacked teams? How many championships he carried them to? Oh, and as many games as he won because of superior to KG offense, he lost as many because of being liability in the defense, because you know, defense wins the championships, Barkley is yet another example of that.

[rfm767]

Charles Barkley.

[rfm767]

Imagining much? Garnett is as clutch as Duncan in the offense (if you dont believe, go look their data, as well as their championship run), and even better in the clutch defense. So yes, Garnett carried his team to the rings, and even with the Wolves was losing only to much better teams, and even then not without a fight, like almost singlehandedly won over Kings, and gave prime Shaq/Kobe a run for their money.

What exactly Barkley achieved with the super stacked teams? How many championships he carried them to? Oh, and as many games as he won because of superior to KG offense, he lost as many because of being liability in the defense, because you know, defense wins the championships, Barkley is yet another example of that.

delete the "s" please.

Sir Charles.

[Harison]

delete the "s" please.

Sir Charles.
True, one ring so far, possible more incoming since Celtics arent done yet. Still its more than Barkley ever got. Some people forget offense isnt everything.

[Bigsmoke]

[QUOTE=CB4GOATPF][B]Wan

[CB4GOATPF]

Kevin Garnett won Defensive player of the year... Barkley was NEVER on the All NBA Defensive Team and admits that he is not made to be a defensive stopper on TV. Why u keep bring up EFF, PER, +/- bullsh*t? Barkley wasnt not good at defense and KG is one of the best defenders in NBA history and lead the league in total points before. Barkley's defense doesnt = to 24ppg offense

[B]Are u stupid or something? It is prooven that the difference defensively isn

[Bigsmoke]

[QUOTE=CB4GOATPF][B]Are u stupid or something? It is prooven that the difference defensively isn

[CB4GOATPF]

Kevin Garnett faced as many if not more double teams than Barkley did before he became a Celtic. and again.... KG is a great scorer/offensive player that is one of the best defenders in history. Barkley is even better than KG at offense but can not defend very well. Stop bring up that whole "well Barkley made his own rules and BLAH BLAH didnt" BS. KG "defense" help a team won a championship. Barkley's offense didnt

[B]OH MY GOD U MUST BE AN IDIOT BUT FROM ANOTHER PLANET :ohwell:

I WILL REPEAT AGAIN!

THE DIFFERENCE DEFENSIVELY.....
IS LESSER THAN THE DIFFERENCE OFFENSIVELY: :hammerhead:

PROOF?

Barkley vs [COLOR="DarkGreen"]Garnett

[Solid Snake]

I'll go with the player who:

1) didn't fail the SAT test 3 times
2) doesn't get bullied by people 10 inches shorter than him
3) didn't get bullied repeatedly as a kid

[CB4GOATPF]

I'll go with the player who:

1) didn't fail the SAT test 3 times
2) doesn't get bullied by people 10 inches shorter than him
3) didn't get bullied repeatedly as a kid

[B]Shouldn

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

I'll go with the player who:

1) didn't fail the SAT test 3 times
2) doesn't get bullied by people 10 inches shorter than him
3) didn't get bullied repeatedly as a kid :wtf: We're not talking about you here, this thread is about Kevin Garnett and Charles Barkley.

[pierce2008mvp]

I'll go with the player who:

1) didn't fail the SAT test 3 times
2) doesn't get bullied by people 10 inches shorter than him
3) didn't get bullied repeatedly as a kid
:wtf:

[west]

I'll go with the player who:

1) didn't fail the SAT test 3 times
2) doesn't get bullied by people 10 inches shorter than him
3) didn't get bullied repeatedly as a kid
:wtf:

[vert48]

Hakeem was better than all of them, and is the GOAT PF.

[iggy>]

LMFAO @ kg being a better rebounder than sir charles.:roll: im convinced that some of u dont even watch basketball.

[pierce2008mvp]

Hakeem was better than all of them, and is the GOAT PF.

He was a Center.

[redhonda76]

Imagining much? Garnett is as clutch as Duncan in the offense (if you dont believe, go look their data, as well as their championship run), and even better in the clutch defense. So yes, Garnett carried his team to the rings, and even with the Wolves was losing only to much better teams, and even then not without a fight, like almost singlehandedly won over Kings, and gave prime Shaq/Kobe a run for their money.

What exactly Barkley achieved with the super stacked teams? How many championships he carried them to? Oh, and as many games as he won because of superior to KG offense, he lost as many because of being liability in the defense, because you know, defense wins the championships, Barkley is yet another example of that.

Are you freaking kidding?!?!? You really have no idea about Barkley. Stop glorifying KG which he never was. As I mentioned, he has a couple of good moments but majority of the time, he just cannot carry his team on his back.
Marbury and Hudson was the one who took command in the tight game, same as Spree and Cassel. I've lived in Minny for 5 years, he was a very good player but he doesn't have a post game take command when his team needed him the most. You can argue that he was stopped by better team, but once he had the ball, he just cannot finish the game most of the time.
KG got 1 championship when he arrive to the Celtics and he wasn't even the MVP and past his prime.

[drza44]

Are you freaking kidding?!?!? You really have no idea about Barkley. Stop glorifying KG which he never was. As I mentioned, he has a couple of good moments but majority of the time, he just cannot carry his team on his back.
Marbury and Hudson was the one who took command in the tight game, same as Spree and Cassel. I've lived in Minny for 5 years, he was a very good player but he doesn't have a post game take command when his team needed him the most. You can argue that he was stopped by better team, but once he had the ball, he just cannot finish the game most of the time.
KG got 1 championship when he arrive to the Celtics and he wasn't even the MVP and past his prime.

So much in this doesn't make sense.

Marbury left Minnesota in 1998, and Hudson played there for one healthy year and was a glorified journeyman.

Cassell and Sprewell both shot 40% from the field in crunch time in '04 (82games.com). And KG was a monster that season in every respect, including one of the best game 7 performances of all time.

None of the people that you name played healthy in Minnesota during the last 5 years, so your location is irrelevant. In fact, the last 3 years KG has been in Boston anyway. Plus, I guarantee I've watched more Garnett games than you have in the past five years. And, surprise, my memories of that time period match what the stats say...that KG is one of the best clutch bigs of his generation. You present absolutely no factual basis for your statement, just flawed opinion. If you do have some facts, I'd love to hear them.

KG was 3rd in the MVP vote in 2008, won the Defensive Player of the Year on a team that won the title based on their defense, and led the team in both points and rebounds. That was clearly his team.

These are all obvious points by now that I know you've seen before. I can only figure that you're taking a contrarian POV as part of your gimmick.

[Amare4lyfe]

So much in this doesn't make sense.

Marbury left Minnesota in 1998, and Hudson played there for one healthy year and was a glorified journeyman.

Cassell and Sprewell both shot 40% from the field in crunch time in '04 (82games.com). And KG was a monster that season in every respect, including one of the best game 7 performances of all time.

None of the people that you name played healthy in Minnesota during the last 5 years, so your location is irrelevant. In fact, the last 3 years KG has been in Boston anyway. Plus, I guarantee I've watched more Garnett games than you have in the past five years. And, surprise, my memories of that time period match what the stats say...that KG is one of the best clutch bigs of his generation. You present absolutely no factual basis for your statement, just flawed opinion. If you do have some facts, I'd love to hear them.

KG was 3rd in the MVP vote in 2008, won the Defensive Player of the Year on a team that won the title based on their defense, and led the team in both points and rebounds. That was clearly his team.

These are all obvious points by now that I know you've seen before. I can only figure that you're taking a contrarian POV as part of your gimmick.


This has to be an absolute joke. Just because KG was huge in that 04series, you totally forgot he couldn't carry his team in the past playoffs. When he had Spree and Cassel, it was a different story. If he didn't have them, he would still never make it past the first round. It's the fact from 97-03 KG never made it past the first round. How the hell you explain that.
KG just doesn't have the offensive in the post to take over the game like Duncan. That's the truth.

[redhonda76]

So much in this doesn't make sense.

Marbury left Minnesota in 1998, and Hudson played there for one healthy year and was a glorified journeyman.

Cassell and Sprewell both shot 40% from the field in crunch time in '04 (82games.com). And KG was a monster that season in every respect, including one of the best game 7 performances of all time.

None of the people that you name played healthy in Minnesota during the last 5 years, so your location is irrelevant. In fact, the last 3 years KG has been in Boston anyway. Plus, I guarantee I've watched more Garnett games than you have in the past five years. And, surprise, my memories of that time period match what the stats say...that KG is one of the best clutch bigs of his generation. You present absolutely no factual basis for your statement, just flawed opinion. If you do have some facts, I'd love to hear them.

KG was 3rd in the MVP vote in 2008, won the Defensive Player of the Year on a team that won the title based on their defense, and led the team in both points and rebounds. That was clearly his team.

These are all obvious points by now that I know you've seen before. I can only figure that you're taking a contrarian POV as part of your gimmick.

Stats stats stats. Watch the game damnit. Stats doesn't tell you the whole game. I've watch almost every Minny's game when I was living there, you can't possibly tell me KG can take over the game in the clutch situation. I'm sorry but you are just a kid just basing your opinion through internet stats and youtube video.
Stating that KG is "one of the best clutch bigs" has to quite laughable.

[Harison]

This has to be an absolute joke. Just because KG was huge in that 04series, you totally forgot he couldn't carry his team in the past playoffs. When he had Spree and Cassel, it was a different story. If he didn't have them, he would still never make it past the first round. It's the fact from 97-03 KG never made it past the first round. How the hell you explain that.
KG just doesn't have the offensive in the post to take over the game like Duncan. That's the truth.
For some reason you forgot WHAT teammates KG had, and WHAT teams KG was facing, its not 1 vs 5 game. If you swap TD and KG, most likely their resumes would swap as well, KG would be seen as the winner, TD as loser :rolleyes: As soon as KG got quality teammates, he won instantly (was the best player as well), even way after his prime. He was true MVP - even anchoring one of the best defenses in history, he was the best scorer as well, Pierce getting MVP was the same as Parker getting one over Duncan.


Stats stats stats. Watch the game damnit. Stats doesn't tell you the whole game. I've watch almost every Minny's game when I was living there, you can't possibly tell me KG can take over the game in the clutch situation. I'm sorry but you are just a kid just basing your opinion through internet stats and youtube video.
Stating that KG is "one of the best clutch bigs" has to quite laughable.
I did watch, and your opinion has little to no basis. When asked to back up your opinion with facts, you resort to ad hominem, so who exactly is child there? :confusedshrug:

[magnax1]

For some reason you forgot WHAT teammates KG had, and WHAT teams KG was facing, its not 1 vs 5 game. If you swap TD and KG, most likely their resumes would swap as well, KG would be seen as the winner, TD as loser :rolleyes: As soon as KG got quality teammates, he won instantly (was the best player as well), even way after his prime. He was true MVP - even anchoring one of the best defenses in history, he was the best scorer as well, Pierce getting MVP was the same as Parker getting one other Duncan.


I did watch, and your opinion has little to no basis. When asked to back up your opinion with facts, you resort to ad hominem, so who exactly is child there? :confusedshrug:
Honda calls anyone who disagrees with him a kid. Hes not worth arguing with.

[xtn5021]

Kkkg.

[liljohnnywall]

Kkkg.
kg

[Artillery]

For some reason you forgot WHAT teammates KG had, and WHAT teams KG was facing, its not 1 vs 5 game. If you swap TD and KG, most likely their resumes would swap as well, KG would be seen as the winner, TD as loser :rolleyes: As soon as KG got quality teammates, he won instantly (was the best player as well), even way after his prime. He was true MVP - even anchoring one of the best defenses in history, he was the best scorer as well, Pierce getting MVP was the same as Parker getting one other Duncan.

You can't honestly look at those early Spurs rosters and tell me that Duncan was playing on stacked teams. His second option in 2001 was Derek Anderson. In 2002, it was a 37-year old Robinson averaging 12 ppg. Sure, KG played on bad teams a lot longer than Duncan did but don't perpetuate the myth that Duncan ALWAYS had talented teammates. TD carried some mediocre teams to 55+ wins back then.

[Tuvi]

Charles Barkley

[Harison]

You can't honestly look at those early Spurs rosters and tell me that Duncan was playing on stacked teams. His second option in 2001 was Derek Anderson. In 2002, it was a 37-year old Robinson averaging 12 ppg. Sure, KG played on bad teams a lot longer than Duncan did but don't perpetuate the myth that Duncan ALWAYS had talented teammates. TD carried some mediocre teams to 55+ wins back then.
Duncan pretty much always had a better team (pre-'08) and much better coach, even in '01 or 02, quick test - check how much impact on wins had Duncan and his teammates, and how much KG, you will be surprised Garnett had BY FAR the biggest impact, so much so his influence was bigger than ANY other player this decade, that includes prime Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, etc. It doesnt mean he is better than them, just how much he had to carry.

[RaptorFan]

Barkley, but not by much.

[drza44]

This has to be an absolute joke. Just because KG was huge in that 04series, you totally forgot he couldn't carry his team in the past playoffs. When he had Spree and Cassel, it was a different story. If he didn't have them, he would still never make it past the first round. It's the fact from 97-03 KG never made it past the first round. How the hell you explain that.
KG just doesn't have the offensive in the post to take over the game like Duncan. That's the truth.

How do I explain it? KG faced the hardest 1st round competition with the least help of any player in NBA history. KG has lost in the playoffs 8 times in his career. 6 of those losses came to teams with TWO MVPs (past, present or future) on them that were All Stars that season. The other 2 losses were to a 61-win Sonics team and a 59-win Blazers team that was a choke away from the title. In those 8 losses, KG had exactly one healthy "All Star" teammate TOTAL (Wally in '02). That's it.

Nobody's ever had to face a gauntlet like that for a career. There's only been 6 teams with 2 MVP current All Stars in the last 30 years, and KG played against FOUR of them (he probably would have had to face the other two as well if Magic, Kareem, Dr. J and Mo Malone hadn't been retired by the time he came along...he had that kind of luck). At any rate, those losses had nothing to do with KG's offensive post game. It was amazing that KG was even able to carry those teams as far as he did.

[drza44]

Stats stats stats. Watch the game damnit. Stats doesn't tell you the whole game. I've watch almost every Minny's game when I was living there, you can't possibly tell me KG can take over the game in the clutch situation. I'm sorry but you are just a kid just basing your opinion through internet stats and youtube video.
Stating that KG is "one of the best clutch bigs" has to quite laughable.

As I stated in my last post, I guarantee that I've watched more KG games than you have. Thus, your "watch the game" admonition is cute.

And when a person watches all of the games, has a take, and the stats BACK IT UP...yeah, it's kind of hard to argue that one.

Even a kid that bases his opinion on "internet stats" (aren't they "NBA stats"? Would it have made a difference if the stats were stored on paper as opposed to the internet?) and youtube video knows that.

[drza44]

You can't honestly look at those early Spurs rosters and tell me that Duncan was playing on stacked teams. His second option in 2001 was Derek Anderson. In 2002, it was a 37-year old Robinson averaging 12 ppg. Sure, KG played on bad teams a lot longer than Duncan did but don't perpetuate the myth that Duncan ALWAYS had talented teammates. TD carried some mediocre teams to 55+ wins back then.

It's a matter of degree and semantics. In '01 Anderson may have technically been the second scoring option in the regular season, but David Robinson was clearly the 2nd option overall and still one of the best players in the NBA. 2001 David Robinson was better than any teammate KG had ever in Minnesota, and may very well have been the best teammate KG ever played with period.

Even on his last legs in 02 and 03 Robinsons were better than any of KG's Minnesota teammates outside of that one season of Cassell due to his defense, rebounding and experience. And that's not even to mention the grizzled vets and young talent that made very good role players in an excellently coached system.

In other words, you may be right that Duncan didn't have marquee talent in the early 00s the way, say, Shaq did. But I guarantee you that before any of those seasons, if you told KG he could swap teams with Duncan for the season he'd have done it in a heartbeat. And Duncan never would have agreed to it in a million years. Because, whatever you may think of Duncan's cast, it was still better than what KG had in Minnesota.

[Russell11rings]

Barkley. He was more dominant than Garnett ever was. The Alabama native also overachieved given his physical attributes. Garnett was more physically gifted. He did not underachieve but he was only as good as his natural ability allowed him to be. Barkley with Garnett's tools would be unstoppable. Do not get me wrong. Both are among the best to ever play but Barkley is better.

[necya]

stop those useless thread.

it's Barkley kids.

[ImmortalD24]

http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/1117/nba_ap_garnett_268x325.jpg

Going with the Big Ticket.


I see it like this.. I'll give Barkley on offense, even though one can argue for Kevin Garnett with his passing and his ability to stretch the floor.. But outside of scoring, what does Barkley have on KG? You look at intangibles like leadership, rebounding, unselfishness, intensity and most importantly defense.. Kevin Garnett comes out way on top.

If I'm starting a franchise I go with Kevin Garnett.. 2nd option to a superstar? Kevin Garnett.

There isn't a single top 10 player who I'd pair with Barkley over Garnett. None.

[Yung D-Will]

You Guys really know how to revive old topics .

But I'm going with Barkley, The Kid was a better rebounder , a better offensive player and was just more dominant

[ImmortalD24]

You Guys really know how to revive old topics .

But I'm going with Barkley, The Kid was a better rebounder , a better offensive player and was just more dominant Dude, you're the one who bumped this thread. :facepalm

[Andrei89]

1. Barkley
2. Malone
3. KG
4. McHale
5. Dirk

what where the F is duncan?

What is this outrage?

[Yung D-Will]

what where the F is duncan?

What is this outrage?

I'm guessing he considers him a Center

[ShaqAttack3234]

:oldlol: at Barkley only being "slightly" better than KG offensively.

Barkley was a much better offensive player. Nobody who watched Barkley play would dispute that. Barkley's interior game was dominant and he was damn versatile too, running the floor, going coast to coast, hitting the mid-range jumper and his aggressiveness was one of the main reasons why he was so much better than KG offensively.

[Andrei89]

I'm guessing he considers him a Center

I sure hope so

1: Duncan
2: Malone
3: KG
4:McHale
5: Barkley

[Yung D-Will]

:oldlol: at Barkley only being "slightly" better than KG offensively.

Barkley was a much better offensive player. Nobody who watched Barkley play would dispute that. Barkley's interior game was dominant and he was damn versatile too, running the floor, going coast to coast, hitting the mid-range jumper and his aggressiveness was one of the main reasons why he was so much better than KG offensively.
This

[necya]

http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/1117/nba_ap_garnett_268x325.jpg

Going with the Big Ticket.


I see it like this.. I'll give Barkley on offense, even though one can argue for Kevin Garnett with his passing and his ability to stretch the floor.. But outside of scoring, what does Barkley have on KG? You look at intangibles like leadership, rebounding, unselfishness, intensity and most importantly defense.. Kevin Garnett comes out way on top.

If I'm starting a franchise I go with Kevin Garnett.. 2nd option to a superstar? Kevin Garnett.

There isn't a single top 10 player who I'd pair with Barkley over Garnett. None.

and what have you seen of Barkley between 86 and 93 to talk like a ignorant?
you kids give me headache. this site is full of moron for sure

[Yung D-Will]

KG-
Defense
Passing
Rebounding
Winning
Barkley-
Clutch
Scoring
Why is this even an argument?

Since when was KG ever a better Rebounder then Barkley?

[Yung D-Will]

.-.:pimp:

[indiefan24]

Who has the bigger mouth?

[Yung D-Will]

Who has the bigger mouth?

Imagine if KG joined TNT . And gave every guest his stare down

[beermonsteroo]

Barkley!
Better scorer, better passer, at least as good as Garnett as a Rebounder.
Barkley had much more presence on the court, he was more of a hustler, more of a fighter. Heck how can anyone seriously ask this question?:facepalm

[beermonsteroo]

KG, the better rebounder, no contest.

:facepalm

[Yung D-Will]

:facepalm
:facepalm

[MasterDurant24]

Barkley. I'll give KG defense, but Barkley was too short to guard any PFs and not quick enough to guard SFs.

[Lebron23]

Charles Barkley

[Se]

This is one of the hardest calls.

Depends what you need.
First option? Then it's Barkley.
Second option who can anchor the D? Then it's Garnett.

D wins championships, so a lot of people would go for KG. My only problem with KG is his lack of success in Minnesota. Chuck fairs better with respect to playoff success. Still not great, but better. I'd count on Chuck to win a game over KG any day.

[Team_Hollywood]

I'll go with the guy who has won a ring, Kevin Garnett.

Better rebounder, scorer, and not to mention a better defender.


WE DA BESS

[MasterDurant24]

Why are people calling KG a better rebounder? Barkley was hardly taller than Jordan, yet he still managed to average 11 rebounds for his career while rebounding against Hakeem, Ewing, Kareem, Parish, McHale, Bird, Charles Oakley, Laimbeer, Rodman, Mutombo, Karl Malone, Shaq, and Kevin Willis.

[catch24]

Better rebounder, scorer

Put your pipe down.

Career averages:
Barkley - 22 ppg 54fg% 11.7 reb
Garnett - 20 ppg 50fg% 10 reb

Best season:
Barkley - 23 ppg 59fg% 14.6 reb (Barkley's had several seasons over 25ppg, while KG has not).
Garnett - 24 ppg 50fg% 14 reb

[Yung D-Will]

Lol at people calling KG a better rebounder then Barkley :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Bigsmoke]

I like defense and champions so KG is my answer

[triangleoffense]

It's close... Barkley led a team to the Finals by himself.. KG needed help from other superstar players but his defense was better than Barkley's.

[Round Mound]

This is a dumb comparisson. Garnett was great regular season player but he wasn`t a dominant player that needed double teaming constantly in his prime.

Malone outplayed Garnett as 33-40 year old

Barkley at ages 33-36 overweight, back injured and after two knee surgery`s outplayed him too.

1-Barkley
2-Duncan
3-Malone

The Rest..

[Team_Hollywood]

This is a dumb comparisson. Garnett was great regular season player but he wasn`t a dominant player that needed double teaming constantly in his prime.

Malone outplayed Garnett as 33-40 year old

Barkley at ages 33-36 overweight, back injured and after two knee surgery`s outplayed him too.

1-Barkley
2-Duncan
3-Malone

The Rest..


You are clearly a troll.

Duncan is the G.O.A.T power forward and that's not even debatable.

WE DA BESS

[Round Mound]

You are clearly a troll.

Duncan is the G.O.A.T power forward and that's not even debatable.

WE DA BESS

GOAT of the Weak Era...

Barkley owned Duncan even as a crippled overweight 3rd and 4th go to go guy ages 33-36. Imagine what would have happened if Duncan faced a healthy prime Barkley. Would have been funny.

[MasterDurant24]

You are clearly a troll.

Duncan is the G.O.A.T power forward and that's not even debatable.

WE DA BESS
How is that trolling? What puts Duncan over Barkley is the 4 rings and the defense. It can be debated that Barkley is a better player than Duncan.

[Team_Hollywood]

GOAT of the Weak Era...

Barkley owned Duncan even as a crippled overweight 3rd and 4th go to go guy ages 33-36. Imagine what would have happened if Duncan faced a healthy prime Barkley. Would have been funny.


Yao also owns Howard every time face each other. So using your logic, is Yao a better player than Dwight Howard? I'll give a few seconds.

Now that I've crushed your first argument, lets continue.

The simple fact that Duncan has four rings should put him ahead of Barkley. Barkley was a defensive liability, undersized, overweight, and lazy with no work ethic whatsoever. Duncan protects the paint in a way no other big man in the league can, Barkley was never able to do that. Overall, I think Duncan's defense is what puts him ahead of Barkley.


"WE DA BESS"

[necya]

You are clearly a troll.

Duncan is the G.O.A.T power forward and that's not even debatable.

WE DA BESS

how old are you? just answer this question before i break you in 2 parts.
how many games do yoou have wtached of Barkley and Malone?

[G.O.A.T.]

"WE DA BESS"

dude stop it. you're making yourself look foolish.

[Bigsmoke]

It's close... Barkley led a team to the Finals by himself.. KG needed help from other superstar players but his defense was better than Barkley's.

so Moses Malone, Dr.J. Kevin Johnson, Hakeem, and Drexler werent superstars?

[MasterDurant24]

so Moses Malone, Dr.J. Kevin Johnson, Hakeem, and Drexler werent superstars.
I wouldn't say Kevin Johnson was a superstar, but good point anyway.

[Bigsmoke]

GOAT of the Weak Era...

Barkley owned Duncan even as a crippled overweight 3rd and 4th go to go guy ages 33-36. Imagine what would have happened if Duncan faced a healthy prime Barkley. Would have been funny.

Tim Duncans went against KG, Dirk, Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Amare, Boozer, Gasol, Bosh, Antonio McDyess,

while Barkley had to go against Malone, Kemp, and what... Derrick Coleman?

I think the PFs in the NBA were better when Tim Duncan was in his prime than Barkley's era.

I hate people and that era bullshit. Duncan went through all of the best teams in order to get his rings. Lets see of Barkley's suns could end the Lakers 3 peat

[Bigsmoke]

I wouldn't say Kevin Johnson was a superstar, but good point anyway.

shit 90% of the people in this site thinks he was better than Chris Paul... :rolleyes:

[necya]

shit 90% of the people in this site thinks he was better than Chris Paul... :rolleyes:

maybe i should send to you some suns game from 89 to 94
if you just have seen what he did against the MVP Magic himself when he was in his second year...

[MasterDurant24]

Tim Duncans went against KG, Dirk, Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Amare, Boozer, Gasol, Bosh, Antonio McDyess,

while Barkley had to go against Malone, Kemp, and what... Derrick Coleman?

I think the PFs in the NBA were better when Tim Duncan was in his prime the Barkley's era.

I hate people and that era bullshit. Duncan went through all of the best teams in order to get his rings. Lets see of Barkley's suns could end the Lakers 3 peat
Larry Johnson, Chris Webber, Kevin McHale, Charles Oakley, Ralph Sampson, Dennis Rodman, Garnett, and Worthy played power forward for the Lakers for a while. Comparable talent, to say the least.

[ginobli2311]

This is a dumb comparisson. Garnett was great regular season player but he wasn`t a dominant player that needed double teaming constantly in his prime.

Malone outplayed Garnett as 33-40 year old

Barkley at ages 33-36 overweight, back injured and after two knee surgery`s outplayed him too.

1-Barkley
2-Duncan
3-Malone

The Rest..

you can't just ignore half of the game....DEFENSE. defense is/was KG's best quality. you can't just sweep that under the rug and just compare them offensively. barkely was clearly the better offensive player. but i'd take KG over barkley every time because of defense. well out of his prime....KG was able to be the best player on a title team and the best defensive player in the league that anchored an entire team's great defense. barkley never did that. he never provided that......and that is why he doesn't have a title.

[Yung D-Will]

This is a dumb comparisson. Garnett was great regular season player but he wasn`t a dominant player that needed double teaming constantly in his prime.

Malone outplayed Garnett as 33-40 year old

Barkley at ages 33-36 overweight, back injured and after two knee surgery`s outplayed him too.

1-Barkley
2-Duncan
3-Malone

The Rest..

I love how you base your whole argument on these couple of head to head games

[Jasper]

This is a weird comparison if I ever saw one out of the same position in bball.
Barkley at 6'6" and KG at 6'11 1/2"

Majority of Barkley early years in Philly were of teams that just did not have it.
So all those ISH posters talking trash about a player not carrying a team , or bringing it to the holy land - - - check out Barkley's career.
Barkley was less a team player and more less an opportunist. (notice I did not say ball hog)
While his NBA career started , he immediately learned what he could do and not do to opposing teams. And eventually his cred allowed him to do things that he once could not do , and did to opposing teams. In other words he had great ball sense.
KG : was literally in the same situation as Barkley but stayed with his team for eon's in Minny while he basically was the team.
The difference was that KG made his teammates better , as literally a point PF. All the offense ran thru him , and even if he did not score , or create an assist .. the opposing team had their hands full with KG on the floor.
His early career , he sailed down the lane or baseline , and hammered home dunk after dunk because of his David 'the Admiral' speed.. and Akeem's jumping ability. How many times did I see him as well as Barkley follow one of his teammates shots to the hoop and smash down the rebound for a score :rockon:
Fact is KG was always a team type player , While Barkley only learned to do that when he played with Kevin Johnson as a Sun.
KG obviously isn't the player he was , those jump shoots used to be slashing jams, turn around jump hooks and ton's of other arsenal offensive weapons.

Two great POWER players.
Both were freak type players... but history shows KG was really the first center , playing the PF position. (Bob MaCadoooo - was a center)

KG

[Jasper]

shit 90% of the people in this site thinks he was better than Chris Paul... :rolleyes: your reference to K. Johnson who by the way I hated ... but was a great PG. Has CP3 taken his team to the finals :confusedshrug:

[Bigsmoke]

your reference to K. Johnson who by the way I hated ... but was a great PG. Has CP3 taken his team to the finals :confusedshrug:

Neither has KJ, Barkley did.

The real question is if Chris Paul ever play in the finals, would he choke as badly as KJ did?

lets be for real

Chris Paul now >>>>> KJ in his best days

[chris2010]

Garnett

[Bigsmoke]

Larry Johnson, Chris Webber, Kevin McHale, Charles Oakley, Ralph Sampson, Dennis Rodman, Garnett, and Worthy played power forward for the Lakers for a while. Comparable talent, to say the least.

Webber and KG didnt peak until Barley was all old. Those guys are to me are around Duncan's era. Charles Oakley was great but not THAT great. Dennis Rodman was a bit overrated to if u ask me. Both Oakley and Rodman are great role players. not players like Dirk and KG who got MVPs

[veilside23]

you can't just ignore half of the game....DEFENSE. defense is/was KG's best quality. you can't just sweep that under the rug and just compare them offensively. barkely was clearly the better offensive player. but i'd take KG over barkley every time because of defense. well out of his prime....KG was able to be the best player on a title team and the best defensive player in the league that anchored an entire team's great defense. barkley never did that. he never provided that......and that is why he doesn't have a title.
this


This is a weird comparison if I ever saw one out of the same position in bball.
Barkley at 6'6" and KG at 6'11 1/2"

Majority of Barkley early years in Philly were of teams that just did not have it.
So all those ISH posters talking trash about a player not carrying a team , or bringing it to the holy land - - - check out Barkley's career.
Barkley was less a team player and more less an opportunist. (notice I did not say ball hog)
While his NBA career started , he immediately learned what he could do and not do to opposing teams. And eventually his cred allowed him to do things that he once could not do , and did to opposing teams. In other words he had great ball sense.
KG : was literally in the same situation as Barkley but stayed with his team for eon's in Minny while he basically was the team.
The difference was that KG made his teammates better , as literally a point PF. All the offense ran thru him , and even if he did not score , or create an assist .. the opposing team had their hands full with KG on the floor.
His early career , he sailed down the lane or baseline , and hammered home dunk after dunk because of his David 'the Admiral' speed.. and Akeem's jumping ability. How many times did I see him as well as Barkley follow one of his teammates shots to the hoop and smash down the rebound for a score :rockon:
Fact is KG was always a team type player , While Barkley only learned to do that when he played with Kevin Johnson as a Sun.
KG obviously isn't the player he was , those jump shoots used to be slashing jams, turn around jump hooks and ton's of other arsenal offensive weapons.

Two great POWER players.
Both were freak type players... but history shows KG was really the first center , playing the PF position. (Bob MaCadoooo - was a center)

KG


AND THIS two best answers...

[sirkeelma]

Bump.

[Round Mound]

Barkley Ranks Top 10 All Time in

EFF
PER
Statistical Plus/Minus (Top 5)

See the top 15-20 Players in those Lists and you will be amazed of how Charles fitted or more like "Dominated" playing in a tougher era and not in a team with two unselfish superstars in Allen and the more versatile Pierce but with weaker casts

No way was Garnett better than Barkley...

Barkley was by far the Best Zone Buster in NBA History aswell..

[Round Mound]

Its funny how some people mention Duncan played against better PFs bull!

Webber was better in the 90s than 2000s

Defenders that Barkley played against

Charles Oakley 6`9/260
Elden Cambell 6`11/240 lbs
Karl Malone 6`8 3/4/257-275 lbs (end of his career with modern training)
Terry Cummings 6`8/250 lbs
Ac Green 6`9/230-240 (pure muscle no fat)
Michael Thompson 6`11 /240 lbs plus
John Salley 6`11 220-230 lbs
Dennis Rodman 6`6 3/4 /215-230 lbs (pure muscle later in his career)
Derick Coleman 6`11/265 lbs
Ralph Sampson 7`3/240-245 lbs
Otis Thorpe 6`10 /240 lbs
Buck Williams 6`8 /240 lbs
Roy Tarpley 6`11/230-245 lbs
Kevin Willis 7`0/ 250 lbs
Kevin McHale 6`10/ 220-235 lbs (8ft wingspam)
Horace Grant 6`10/ 240 lbs
Chris Webber 6`10/ 245 lbs (ages 20-26 came in with fundamentals and was more athletic in the 90s)
Vin Baker 6`11 /230-240 lbs
Antonio McDyess 6`9/220-235 lbs (this dude would have never even been an allstar in the 80s and early-mid 90s in his PRIME)

etc etc etc and etc of CFs, PFs and SFs

Some Great Defending Role Players, Stars, Superstars from 80s, 90s and 2000s... that ranged from 6`6 250 lbs like Houston in the Warrios (especially brought because they did not wan`t Webber or Gatling in foul trouble) to those that where over 7`0 ft such as David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon (well 6`10 but 255 lbs) where where both quicker footed, more agil, as strong or stronger and better post defenders than Garnett or Duncan and for many games they moved out of their positions to guard Barkley and no result he just shot over them or needed a double team after he put his big body to work with or without the "5 Second Back to the Basket Rule" (especially designed because of Charles and then Shaq)

This was an era where handchecking, pulling, pushing with both hands from the back, pushing with your leggs, grabing etc existed!!!... and Barkley kept owning till about 1995 with ease till 1999 while crippled and aged...with hardly any training (yes he was lazy, he was a "stud" as he said hismelf... he owned!)

The Level of Defenders and Players back then was so much better its not even funny. No player today could contain a 22-32 year old Barkley. Bird himself said so when asked about the Redeem Team vs Dream Team debate (Nobody Could Guard Barkley Today) Barkley aged and crippled prooved he couldn`t be guarded by either Duncan or Garnett in their physical primes.

The players that made his job easier where usually 6`10 and plus. The better defenders where those that where 6`8, 6`7, 6`6 and atleast 230 lbs.

Barkley at age 35 while having back problems since 1994, overweight and with knee injuries from 97 on

Averaged 23.5 PPG (52.9% FG/More If You Account his 2-Point FG%), 13.8 RPG and 3.8 APG vs PRIME PEEKED Shaq, Bryant, Cambell, Rice, Fox, Horry, Rodman etc

Just what do u think a healthy back, free from knee injuries....and younger Barkley would done to the Lakers or others? :rolleyes:

After all there is only 1 player in NBA History that has ranked Top 10 All-Time in EFF, PER and Statistical Plus/Minus and his name is Michael Jeffry Jordan

Next..

[momo]

Is anyone in this thread RocketGreatness? If so Dwight > Yao.

[KG5MVP]

Its funny how some people mention Duncan played against better PFs bull!

Webber was better in the 90s than 2000s

Defenders that Barkley played against

Charles Oakley 6`9/260
Elden Cambell 6`11/240 lbs
Karl Malone 6`8 3/4/257-275 lbs (end of his career with modern training)
Terry Cummings 6`8/250 lbs
Ac Green 6`9/230-240 (pure muscle no fat)
Michael Thompson 6`11 /240 lbs plus
John Salley 6`11 220-230 lbs
Dennis Rodman 6`6 3/4 /215-230 lbs (pure muscle later in his career)
Derick Coleman 6`11/265 lbs
Ralph Sampson 7`3/240-245 lbs
Otis Thorpe 6`10 /240 lbs
Buck Williams 6`8 /240 lbs
Roy Tarpley 6`11/230-245 lbs
Kevin Willis 7`0/ 250 lbs
Kevin McHale 6`10/ 220-235 lbs (8ft wingspam)
Horace Grant 6`10/ 240 lbs
Chris Webber 6`10/ 245 lbs (ages 20-26 came in with fundamentals and was more athletic in the 90s)
Vin Baker 6`11 /230-240 lbs
Antonio McDyess 6`9/220-235 lbs (this dude would have never even been an allstar in the 80s and early-mid 90s in his PRIME)

etc etc etc and etc of CFs, PFs and SFs

Some Great Defending Role Players, Stars, Superstars from 80s, 90s and 2000s... that ranged from 6`6 250 lbs like Houston in the Warrios (especially brought because they did not wan`t Webber or Gatling in foul trouble) to those that where over 7`0 ft such as David Robinson and Hakeem Olajuwon (well 6`10 but 255 lbs) where where both quicker footed, more agil, as strong or stronger and better post defenders than Garnett or Duncan and for many games they moved out of their positions to guard Barkley and no result he just shot over them or needed a double team after he put his big body to work with or without the "5 Second Back to the Basket Rule" (especially designed because of Charles and then Shaq)

This was an era where handchecking, pulling, pushing with both hands from the back, pushing with your leggs, grabing etc existed!!!... and Barkley kept owning till about 1995 with ease till 1999 while crippled and aged...with hardly any training (yes he was lazy, he was a "stud" as he said hismelf... he owned!)

The Level of Defenders and Players back then was so much better its not even funny. No player today could contain a 22-32 year old Barkley. Bird himself said so when asked about the Redeem Team vs Dream Team debate (Nobody Could Guard Barkley Today) Barkley aged and crippled prooved he couldn`t be guarded by either Duncan or Garnett in their physical primes.

The players that made his job easier where usually 6`10 and plus. The better defenders where those that where 6`8, 6`7, 6`6 and atleast 230 lbs.

Barkley at age 35 while having back problems since 1994, overweight and with knee injuries from 97 on

Averaged 23.5 PPG (52.9% FG/More If You Account his 2-Point FG%), 13.8 RPG and 3.8 APG vs PRIME PEEKED Shaq, Bryant, Cambell, Rice, Fox, Horry, Rodman etc

Just what do u think a healthy back, free from knee injuries....and younger Barkley would done to the Lakers or others? :rolleyes:

After all there is only 1 player in NBA History that has ranked Top 10 All-Time in EFF, PER and Statistical Plus/Minus and his name is Michael Jeffry Jordan

Next..




sorry to disappoint you, but charles barkley was a stat stuffer cancer that only made himself look good without benefiting the team. barkley isn't even half the player KG is.

[Round Mound]

sorry to disappoint you, but charles barkley was a stat stuffer cancer that only made himself look good without benefiting the team. barkley isn't even half the player KG is.

Sorry to say that EFF, PER and Statistical Plus/Minus is exactly what anaylists have made in order stop stat padding and in search of what really happened in terms of efficiency and impact :facepalm :rolleyes: :confusedshrug: .

Areas in which Charles excelled yet his initial teams where not good and in the Suns he had a Good Team (not great as kiddos say, KJ wen`t down and only played for 49 games Chuck took that team on his broad shoulders and later to the finals against a Peek Jordan, MVP in Jordan`s Peek and Hakeem`s) and then was washed up in Houston

More like Garnett is stat padder playing quicker forward to get more assists etc he is no where near the game creator or passer that Barkley was and no where did he create more double teaming than Barkley, a player whom forced Rule Changing...thats how good he was

EFF
PER
Statistical Plus/Minus all have the Top 20-25 GOAT Players...where Barkley Ranks Top 10 in All of Them.

Thank god for Real Stastitics that prooved what i saw live in a golden time of the NBA.

Todays stars are nothing compared to the 80s and 90s

[beermonsteroo]

:facepalm

:facepalm

[Yung D-Will]

sorry to disappoint you, but charles barkley was a stat stuffer cancer that only made himself look good without benefiting the team. barkley isn't even half the player KG is.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[nbacardDOTnet]

lets ask charles barkley that question



[QUOTE=KG5MVP]sorry to disappoint you, but charles barkley was a stat stuffer cancer that only made himself look good without benefiting the team. barkley isn't even half the player KG is./QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Yung D-Will]

The only power forward Barkley said was better them him is Duncan

[Pointguard]

you can't just ignore half of the game....DEFENSE. defense is/was KG's best quality. you can't just sweep that under the rug and just compare them offensively. barkely was clearly the better offensive player. but i'd take KG over barkley every time because of defense. well out of his prime....KG was able to be the best player on a title team and the best defensive player in the league that anchored an entire team's great defense. barkley never did that. he never provided that......and that is why he doesn't have a title.

Well said. KG was able to get a bad team to overachieve and make it to the WCF and a good team to the championship. And he did it with wholly different aspects of his game. If KG was on a defensive team with good defensive pieces or an offensive team with good offensive pieces he would constantly be close to the title, if not winning it all. I can't say that for Barkley who has been on both type of teams and they the teams had an unstable feel to them.

[alexandreben]

this question is a no brainer... a 90' or 93' Sir Charles can easily outplay KG

[Yung D-Will]

The word easily should be banned from this thread:oldlol:

[Bigsmoke]

Malone outplayed Garnett as 33-40 year old
Rest..[/B]

Malone was in his prime around that time. his last year as an elite PF was in 2001.

[Bigsmoke]

The word easily should be banned from this thread:oldlol:



KG was easily the better defender

[Yung D-Will]

:oldlol:

[ginobli2311]

The word easily should be banned from this thread:oldlol:

agreed.

its a tough call. i just prefer a player that can get 20 points 11 boards 4 assists and anchor a team's defense with the versatility to guard small forwards, power forwards, and centers.....over a guy that can score more points and take over games better. although its really close the more that i think about it....but KG is probably one of the 20 best defenders of all time. that goes a long long way in my book.

also....i think people are forgetting just how good KG was in his prime. for example:

barkley's best year - 28 points 12 boards 3 assists
kg's best year - 24 points 14 boards 5 assists

maybe i rate KG a little too high....but i feel very confident that KG would have won multiple titles and would have been a contender year in year out if he played with the kind of talent and coaching that webber/duncan/dirk/shaq/kobe played with for most of the decade.

barkley had his chance with the suns for 3 years in his prime with more than enough help around him. he didn't get it done. that is a big bad mark on him in my opinion.

[Yung D-Will]

For some reason I doubt Kg would have done much better against

Hakeem, Jordan and a Prime D-ROb

[ginobli2311]

For some reason I doubt Kg would have done much better against

Hakeem, Jordan and a Prime D-ROb

perhaps. although KG was pretty damn impressive against the shaq/kobe lakers in 04.

turning in a game of 30 and 19. a game of 22 and 17. a game of 28 and 13. and a game of 24 and 11. in a 6 game series in which he lost cassell (sadly his 2nd/3rd best player)

[west]

I think KG playing in the same era as Duncan is what made him kinda underrated, when people talk about him, the first thing in their mind is Duncan>>>KG but they are fail to realize KG's peak(04) was pretty damn dominate as well......

[Human Error]

Kevin Garnett easily. Barkley is one of the most overrated players of all time if not the most overrated.

[Pointguard]

perhaps. although KG was pretty damn impressive against the shaq/kobe lakers in 04.

turning in a game of 30 and 19. a game of 22 and 17. a game of 28 and 13. and a game of 24 and 11. in a 6 game series in which he lost cassell (sadly his 2nd/3rd best player)

The lost of Cassell meant KG had to move over into the PG duties. He did it and still was effective.

[Pointguard]

For some reason I doubt Kg would have done much better against

Hakeem, Jordan and a Prime D-ROb

If he was on a good KG defensive team I think they all do less as well. Especially Robinson. Hakeem and Jordan, those guys will eventually find a way.

[FCN]

Barkley was better as a first-option scorer, and was also a better rebounder (amazing considering his height)

Garnett is who I would pick though, mostly because of his height/length advantage, and defensive superiority.

No question Barkley was the better scorer and first option player though. If I was building a team from scratch I might pick Barkley, then surround him with good defensive players.

In most situations though, I would pick Garnett. Barkley may have been better in many ways, but as a GM I would consider his 6'4 height as a PF to be too much of a defensive liability, no matter how great of a scorer he was.

[Round Mound]

As i said:

Barkley:

Season ORT: 119
Season DRT: 105
Play-Off ORT:118
Play-Off DRT: 107

Garnett

Season ORT: 111
Season DRT: 99
Play-Off ORT: 106
Play-Off DRT: 100

Offensively 8 point difference (Season) amd 12 point difference (Play-Offs) in favor of Barkley

Defensively: 6 point difference (Season) and 7 point differrence (Play-Offs) in favor of Garnett....Smaller Margin

Barkley was WAY SUPERIOR OFFENSIVELY and Garnet was Superior Defensively by a Smaller Margin than Barkley being Superior to Garnett Offensively

Barkley Top 10 All Time in EFF, PER Season Play-Offs, Statitical Plus/Minus (only Jordan has achieved that much impact).

Soy yes, Barkley

Oh, and Barkley outplayed him while crippled, injured and at ages 33-36