kobes stats in the nba finals

[97 bulls]

can anybody post kobes stats in the nba finals? all of them

[LA_Showtime]

Let me introduce you to google. Do it yourself, moron.

[ProfessorMurder]

Let me introduce you to google. Do it yourself, moron.

Attitude.

[Roundball_Rock]

Basketball reference now has finals stats. Click on playoffs, go to the year and then look for the finals composite box score. Since you are one of my favorite posters on ISH here you go:

16/5/4 37%
25/8/6 42%
27/6/5 51%
23/3/4 38%
26/5/5 41%
32/6/7 43%

[97 bulls]

Let me introduce you to google. Do it yourself, moron.
lol why are you so offended i tried and cant find it. or at least not the way ive seen it on here. and i was trying to show a buddy.

[LA_Showtime]

Attitude.

Come on, the guy claims to be over 30. By now he should be able to do things for himself. Disagree?

[97 bulls]

Attitude.
o.k.. i really pissed him off. lol

[LA_Showtime]

Basketball reference now has finals stats. Click on playoffs, go to the year and then look for the finals composite box score. Since you are one of my favorite posters on ISH here you go:

16/5/4 37%
25/8/6 42%
27/6/5 51%
23/3/4 38%
26/5/5 41%
32/6/7 43%

Boy that Detroit series is ugly. Blah.

[LA_Showtime]

o.k.. i really pissed him off. lol

Not really, lol. But is it really that hard to google "Kobe Bryant Finals stats"?????????????????????

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Probably the most underrated Superstar ever?

[97 bulls]

Basketball reference now has finals stats. Click on playoffs, go to the year and then look for the finals composite box score. Since you are one of my favorite posters on ISH here you go:

16/5/4 37%
25/8/6 42%
27/6/5 51%
23/3/4 38%
26/5/5 41%
32/6/7 43%
thanx rock. i knew i could count on you.

[All Net]

lol why are you so offended i tried and cant find it. or at least not the way ive seen it on here. and i was trying to show a buddy.

Maybe because he thought you had an agenda by asking this question? fair enough if you didn't.

[Roundball_Rock]

thanx rock. i knew i could count on you.

:cheers:


Maybe because he thought you had an agenda by asking this question? fair enough if you didn't.

I doubt he did. 97 bulls is not that kind of poster. You might see "Bulls" in his name and connect him to the usual MJ fan suspects but he often clashes with the MJ brigade because he defends MJ's teammates.

[Knoe Itawl]

Basketball reference now has finals stats. Click on playoffs, go to the year and then look for the finals composite box score. Since you are one of my favorite posters on ISH here you go:

16/5/4 37%
25/8/6 42%
27/6/5 51%
23/3/4 38%
26/5/5 41%
32/6/7 43%

Just look at those dominant, all time numbers that just crush anyone who ever played! And on the NBA's highest stage! I never understood it before but seeing the numbers displayed like that makes me realize why some people try to compare him to Jordan. He just shyts on anything Jordan ever did in the Finals, that's for sure.

I mean, how could anyone get offended by people comparing Kobe to Jordan looking at those numbers?

[Kellogs4toniee]

Man that third appearance was really a thing of beauty. Too bad he couldn't emulate it through all the others.

[Fatal9]

Just look at those dominant, all time numbers that just crush anyone who ever played! And on the NBA's highest stage! I never understood it before but seeing the numbers displayed like that makes me realize why some people try to compare him to Jordan. He just shyts on anything Jordan ever did in the Finals, that's for sure.

I mean, how could anyone get offended by people comparing Kobe to Jordan looking at those numbers?

???

Kobe has faced the #1 defense nearly everytime in the NBA Finals. It's not his fault he couldn't torch an aging Lakers team or be guarded by Dan Majerle (who didn't have the footspeed to stay with SGs, hell even Drexler had the best series of his career against him) and KJ (too short to defend SGs in the post). Jordan's stats vs. #1 defenses during the 90s are equally bad, if not worse.

See here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136345

Jordan shot 40%, 41.1% and 38.6% when he faced #1 defenses during those championship runs. He just had the fortune of never encountering them in the finals, except in '96...and we all know how well he played that year.

[97 bulls]

wow i didnt intend to get this started. next time ill just send rock a pm. mods please delete this thread. his stats are nothing new. i just couldnt find it.

[chazzy]

Just look at those dominant, all time numbers that just crush anyone who ever played! And on the NBA's highest stage! I never understood it before but seeing the numbers displayed like that makes me realize why some people try to compare him to Jordan. He just shyts on anything Jordan ever did in the Finals, that's for sure.

I mean, how could anyone get offended by people comparing Kobe to Jordan looking at those numbers?

Here we goooooo... 13 pages, book it. :violin:

[Kellogs4toniee]

???

Kobe has faced the #1 defense nearly everytime in the NBA Finals. It's not his fault he couldn't torch an aging Lakers team or be guarded by Dan Majerle (who didn't have the footspeed to stay with SGs, hell even Drexler had the best series of his career against him) and KJ (too short to defend SGs in the post). Jordan's stats vs. #1 defenses during the 90s are equally bad, if not worse.

See here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136345

Jordan shot 40%, 41.1% and 38.6% when he faced #1 defenses during those championship runs. He just had the fortune of never encountering them in the finals.


This is a very good and solid point. Not taking anything away from Kobe, but just want to point out that MJ was never "just" guarded by Majerle or Russell or Ehlo in the sense that he was usually double or tripled. Just seems that way in your post.

[D-Rose]

Somebody get Kobe's WCF stats.

[shadow]

amazing how he comes out of hibernation the instant there is a chance to bash kobe. :applause:

[Dunaprenti]

Just look at those dominant, all time numbers that just crush anyone who ever played! And on the NBA's highest stage! I never understood it before but seeing the numbers displayed like that makes me realize why some people try to compare him to Jordan. He just shyts on anything Jordan ever did in the Finals, that's for sure.

I mean, how could anyone get offended by people comparing Kobe to Jordan looking at those numbers?

:wtf: Please check MJ stats. Kobe is great though..

[Lakers13]

amazing how he comes out of hibernation the instant there is a chance to bash kobe. :applause:


Definition of a troll

[Cyclone112]

:wtf: Please check MJ stats. Kobe is great though..

lol, perhaps you didn't notice the sarcasm in that post.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

???

Kobe has faced the #1 defense nearly everytime in the NBA Finals. It's not his fault he couldn't torch an aging Lakers team or be guarded by Dan Majerle (who didn't have the footspeed to stay with SGs, hell even Drexler had the best series of his career against him) and KJ (too short to defend SGs in the post). Jordan's stats vs. #1 defenses during the 90s are equally bad, if not worse.

See here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136345

Jordan shot 40%, 41.1% and 38.6% when he faced #1 defenses during those championship runs. He just had the fortune of never encountering them in the finals.

Top 10 defenses that Michael Jordan faced in the playoffs:
1985 Milwaukee Bucks ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
29.3ppg 5.8reb 8.5ast 44%fg
(High scoring game: 35pts)

1986 Boston Celtics ranked 1st in the NBA in defense
43.7ppg 6.4reb 5.7ast 51%fg
(High scoring game: 63pts & a 49pt game)

1987 Boston Celtics ranked 9th in the NBA in defense
35.7ppg 7.0reb 6.0ast 42%fg
(High scoring game: 42pts)

1988 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 5th in the NBA in defense
45.2ppg 5.4reb 4.8ast 57%fg
(High scoring game: 55pts, 50pts, & a 44pt game)

1988 Detroit Pistons ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
27.4ppg 8.8reb 4.6ast 50%fg
(High scoring game: 36pts)

1989 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
39.8ppg 5.8reb 8.2ast 49%fg
(High scoring game: 50pts, & two 44pt games)

1989 New York Knicks ranked 10th in the NBA in defense
35.67ppg 9.5reb 8.3ast 50%fg
(High scoring game: 47pts & two 40pt games)

1989 Detroit Pistons ranked 3rd in the NBA in defense
29.67ppg 5.5reb 6.5ast 48%fg
(High scoring game: 46pts)

1990 Detroit Pistons ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
32.14ppg 7.1reb 6.3ast 47%fg
(High scoring game: 47pts & a 42pt game)

1991 Detroit Pistons ranked 4th in the NBA in defense
29.75ppg 5.3reb 7.0ast 54%fg
(High scoring game: 35pts)

1991 L.A. Lakers ranked 5th in the NBA in defense
31.2 points 11.4ast 6.6reb 56%fg
(High scoring game: 36pts)

1992 New York Knicks ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
31.28ppg 5.7reb 4.3ast 48%fg
(High scoring game: 42pts)

1992 Portland Trailblazers ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
35.8 ppg 4.8reb 6.5ast 53%fg
(High scoring game: 46pts)

1993 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 6th in the NBA in defense
31.00ppg 5.0reb 5.25ast 49%fg
(High scoring game: 43pts)

1993 New York Knicks ranked 1st in the NBA in defense
32.16ppg 6.2reb 7.0ast 40%fg
(High scoring game: 54 pts)
Jordan had a sprained right wrist in the '93 Conference Finals against the Knicks, which he suffered in game 2 against the Cavs.

1993 Phoenix Suns ranked 9th in the NBA in defense
41.00ppg 8.5 reb 6.3ast 51%fg
(High scoring game: 55pts)

[Fatal9]

You realize beating a "top 10 defense" in any single year isn't exactly a great accomplishment? Usually it's the top 2-3 defenses that are capable of shutting down top players. Bulls this year are a "top 10 defense" but if LBJ torches them in the playoffs, will people remember him doing it against a great defense? Hell every good team in the playoffs is usually a "top 10 defense" (considering only 16 teams make it, and the best defensive teams are usually in). It's a pretty average standard to go by.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You realize beating a "top 10 defense" in any single year isn't exactly a great accomplishment? Usually it's the top 2-3 defenses that are capable of shutting down top players. Bulls this year are a "top 10 defense" but if LBJ torches them in the playoffs, will people remember him doing it against a great defense? Hell every good team in the playoffs is usually a "top 10 defense" (considering only 16 teams make it, and the best defensive teams are usually in). It's a pretty average standard to go by.

Jordan faced a top 3 defense (#2 in defensive rating) during the '92 Finals. Kobe doesn't have any excuses, he just played awful.

[magnax1]

Somebody get Kobe's WCF stats.
He always does seem to dominate in the conference finals. Against the Blazers, Kings, and Nuggets. I don't want to look it up though.
To be fair, nobody played well against the Pistons or Celtics those years. I'm sure his team mates stats sucked too.

[Kellogs4toniee]

You realize beating a "top 10 defense" in any single year isn't exactly a great accomplishment? Usually it's the top 2-3 defenses that are capable of shutting down top players. Bulls this year are a "top 10 defense" but if LBJ torches them in the playoffs, will people remember him doing it against a great defense? Hell every good team in the playoffs is usually a "top 10 defense" (considering only 16 teams make it, and the best defensive teams are usually in). It's a pretty average standard to go by.


You do realize a significant amount of those stats are against the Celtics and Pistons of the late 80's and the Knicks of the 90's, teams that aren't considered just good defense teams but greatest defense teams of all time?

[Alhazred]

You realize beating a "top 10 defense" in any single year isn't exactly a great accomplishment? Usually it's the top 2-3 defenses that are capable of shutting down top players. Bulls this year are a "top 10 defense" but if LBJ torches them in the playoffs, will people remember him doing it against a great defense? Hell every good team in the playoffs is usually a "top 10 defense" (considering only 16 teams make it, and the best defensive teams are usually in). It's a pretty average standard to go by.

A lot of those teams are ranked in the top three, though. Notably the Knicks, Pistons and Trailblazers.

[branslowski]

Just look at those dominant, all time numbers that just crush anyone who ever played! And on the NBA's highest stage! I never understood it before but seeing the numbers displayed like that makes me realize why some people try to compare him to Jordan. He just shyts on anything Jordan ever did in the Finals, that's for sure.

I mean, how could anyone get offended by people comparing Kobe to Jordan looking at those numbers?

Im pretty sure no one said they were dominant....Nor did anyone say they were better than Jordan's...So, maybe you should hop off MJ's dick, sit down, and STFU please. God Bless.

[All Net]

Jordan faced a top 3 defense (#2 in defensive rating) during the '92 Finals. Kobe doesn't have any excuses, he just played awful.

Agreed

no excuses

Kobe played like crap in those series that stand out. Luckily all that matters to most is the last performane he put in..30,7 and 6 on the way to a championship.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Agreed

no excuses

Kobe played like crap in those series that stand out. Luckily all that matters to most is the last performane he put in..30,7 and 6 on the way to a championship.

While shooting 41%. He had a great all around productive series, no denying that.

[All Net]

While shooting 41%. He had a great all around productive series, no denying that.

He shot 43% not 41%. Abit of a difference. Couldn't of been better but not exactly bad.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Agreed

no excuses

Kobe played like crap in those series that stand out. Luckily all that matters to most is the last performane he put in..30,7 and 6 on the way to a championship.


To be fair, all the typical fan really cares about is if they win. From the fan's I talked to, when the Laker's lost to the Celtics that series, most of them acknowledged that Kobe did not play as he should have been. But once they won this year, all that is really forgiven and he's back to being loved by everyone (I live in so-cal btw so I see this everyday, but I'm a bulls fan in case you were wonderin =]).

So yea, all that matters is if they win.

[Knoe Itawl]

???

Kobe has faced the #1 defense nearly everytime in the NBA Finals. It's not his fault he couldn't torch an aging Lakers team or be guarded by Dan Majerle (who didn't have the footspeed to stay with SGs, hell even Drexler had the best series of his career against him) and KJ (too short to defend SGs in the post). Jordan's stats vs. #1 defenses during the 90s are equally bad, if not worse.

See here: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136345

Jordan shot 40%, 41.1% and 38.6% when he faced #1 defenses during those championship runs. He just had the fortune of never encountering them in the finals.

This is laughable. First of all, Kobe's never faced defensive pressure the likes of those Pistons and Knicks teams. And he played that way while having the MOST DOMINANT LOW POST THREAT OF ALL TIME on his team taking defensive pressure off of him. Who did Jordan EVER have down low that could take away that kind of attention? Yet Jordan still prevailed and put up numbers that Kobe could never dream of. Any idiot that knows anything about basketeball knows that a big low post threat makes things easier for a wing player because while massive attention is paid to them, it allows them a freedom they wouldn't enjoy being the sole attention getter for the defense. And Kobe had PRIME SHAQ, the uber example of this! You really see the mindset of the Kobe Fanatic because they completely ignore this and act as if it's totally irrelevant. Or they'll say "b,b,but Kobe helped Shaq too!!" as if it's even a comparison of who benefits more in that situation. If a prime Jordan has someone to draw that kind of attention, then only a fool wouldn't think that he'd be even MORE efficient. Even so, he STILL shines over everything Kobe's done. Not only that, but he did it across the board, while you're just focusing on scoring (though he still doesn't come close to him). You're also making all types of excuses for his performance. He's the great Kobe so why didn't he find a way to dominate those defenses? (You know, like a prime Shaq. Isn't he actually above Shaq's level, according to Stans? He should have outperformed him. Oh, but he wasn't the team's focal point. Well why not? Because he wasn't good enough to be. See you can't have it both ways. You can't say that he didn't do as well as O'Neil because he wasn't the focal point of the team, then ignore that that was the case BECAUSE HE WASN't GOOD ENOUGH to be.

At any rate, these are Jordan's Finals stats. There's no way you can spin out of this with your usual obfuscation, because they speak for themselves. Instead of just bowing out of this comparison (because you just can't win) like a reasonable, non Kobe fanatic would do, you'll try your usual tactics of trying to spin THE OBVIOUS. That's why you're rep is what it is. Anyone with an IQ over 15 can see through you.

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/stats_finals.htm

Only an idiot would try to argue that in any way those numbers don't crush everything Kobe's done. Only a disengenous type would try to spin things to make their crush look better since they can't do it by actual side by side comparison. See, part of the reason Kobe gets so much "hate" is because of people who try to argue up = down to elevate him. It would be like me trying to somehow shoehorn Wade into Jordan's status by obfuscation, even though it's obvious he's not.

Kobe hasn't set the world on fire in the Finals, and that's that. He's had one seris that I would consider "very good". The others have all been mediocre to subpar. By the way, you're also comparing a PRIME Kobe to some of the numbers Jordan put up at 33 to 35 years old! Which just shows your need to obfuscate even more. Kobe's JUST NOW only 31. Talk about defenses. Get back to me when Kobe goes through something like the Jordan Rules, or those brusing Knicks teams, with handchecking, with "hard" fouls that would be flagrants today. Without Shaq down low. And you're going to tell me Jordan had it easier? You're a joke.

The Finals are the NBA's biggest stage. Kobe's not only had the benefit of the MDE down low, but also Phil Jax and a great supporting team, for the majority of his runs, and yet he's still not been able to truly make them his personal stage, like Jordan did. And for those of us that live in reality, his output is GLARING, and part of the reason many of us just can't elevate him into the kind of pantheon that certain people want him to be in. It's always some kind of dismissal and excuses when he doesn't perform up to his hype, but then ultra praise is heaped on him when he does. Duncan didn't need excuses, Shaq didn't. Hakeem didn't Jordan' doesn't. But Kobe does. Kobe ALWAYS does.

[aznboy2k2]

Attitude.

Hes just mad Kobe didn't deep throat him as hard as he would have liked last night.

[LAClipsFan33]

This is laughable. First of all, Kobe's never faced defensive pressure the likes of those Pistons and Knicks teams. And he played that way while having the MOST DOMINANT LOW POST THREAT OF ALL TIME on his team taking defensive pressure off of him. Who did Jordan EVER have down low that could take away that kind of attention? Yet Jordan still prevailed and put up numbers that Kobe could never dream of. Any idiot that knows anything about basketeball knows that a big low post threat makes things easier for a wing player because while massive attention is paid to them, it allows them a freedom they wouldn't enjoy being the sole attention getter for the defense. And Kobe had PRIME SHAQ, the uber example of this! You really see the mindset of the Kobe Fanatic because they completely ignore this and act as if it's totally irrelevant. Or they'll say "b,b,but Kobe helped Shaq too!!" as if it's even a comparison of who benefits more in that situation. If a prime Jordan has someone to draw that kind of attention, then only a fool wouldn't think that he'd be even MORE efficient. Even so, he STILL shines over everything Kobe's done. Not only that, but he did it across the board, while you're just focusing on scoring (though he still doesn't come close to him). You're also making all types of excuses for his performance. He's the great Kobe so why didn't he find a way to dominate those defenses? (You know, like a prime Shaq. Isn't he actually above Shaq's level, according to Stans? He should have outperformed him. Oh, but he wasn't the team's focal point. Well why not? Because he wasn't good enough to be. See you can't have it both ways. You can't say that he didn't do as well as O'Neil because he wasn't the focal point of the team, then ignore that that was the case BECAUSE HE WASN't GOOD ENOUGH to be.

At any rate, these are Jordan's Finals stats. There's no way you can spin out of this with your usual obfuscation, because they speak for themselves. Instead of just bowing out of this comparison (because you just can't win) like a reasonable, non Kobe fanatic would do, you'll try your usual tactics of trying to spin THE OBVIOUS. That's why you're rep is what it is. Anyone with an IQ over 15 can see through you.

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/stats_finals.htm

Only an idiot would try to argue that in any way those numbers don't crush everything Kobe's done. Only a disengenous type would try to spin things to make their crush look better since they can't do it by actual side by side comparison. See, part of the reason Kobe gets so much "hate" is because of people who try to argue up = down to elevate him. It would be like me trying to somehow shoehorn Wade into Jordan's status by obfuscation, even though it's obvious he's not.

Kobe hasn't set the world on fire in the Finals, and that's that. He's had one seris that I would consider "very good". The others have all been mediocre to subpar. By the way, you're also comparing a PRIME Kobe to some of the numbers Jordan put up at 33 to 35 years old! Which just shows your need to obfuscate even more. Kobe's JUST NOW only 31. Talk about defenses. Get back to me when Kobe goes through something like the Jordan Rules, or those brusing Knicks teams, with handchecking, with "hard" fouls that would be flagrants today. Without Shaq down low. And you're going to tell me Jordan had it easier? You're a joke.

The Finals are the NBA's biggest stage. Kobe's not only had the benefit of the MDE down low, but also Phil Jax and a great supporting team, for the majority of his runs, and yet he's still not been able to truly make them his personal stage, like Jordan did. And for those of us that live in reality, his output is GLARING, and part of the reason many of us just can't elevate him into the kind of pantheon that certain people want him to be in. It's always some kind of dismissal and excuses when he doesn't perform up to his hype, but then ultra praise is heaped on him when he does. Duncan didn't need excuses, Shaq didn't. Hakeem didn't Jordan' doesn't. But Kobe does. Kobe ALWAYS does.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll79/RonBurgandy2010/applause.gif

[Jacks3]

Kobe played well in the 2000/2001/2002/2009 Finals. He struggled in 2004/2008, but to be fair, he was facing historically good defenses. Overall, he's been a phenomenal post-season performer throughout his career.

[Jacks3]

32+/7+/6/2/1 last year in the Finals.:bowdown: The percentages aren't bad either: 43% from the field, 38% from 3, 90% from the line.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He shot 43% not 41%. Abit of a difference. Couldn't of been better but not exactly bad.

You mean could of been better? :oldlol:

That game 1 he had was special.

[Glide2keva]

:cheers:



I doubt he did. 97 bulls is not that kind of poster. You might see "Bulls" in his name and connect him to the usual MJ fan suspects but he often clashes with the MJ brigade because he defends MJ's teammates.
Nothing wrong with that at all. I loved all the players on those teams. I have memories of each of their contributions, no matter how minute.

[Glide2keva]

This is laughable. First of all, Kobe's never faced defensive pressure the likes of those Pistons and Knicks teams. And he played that way while having the MOST DOMINANT LOW POST THREAT OF ALL TIME on his team taking defensive pressure off of him. Who did Jordan EVER have down low that could take away that kind of attention? Yet Jordan still prevailed and put up numbers that Kobe could never dream of. Any idiot that knows anything about basketeball knows that a big low post threat makes things easier for a wing player because while massive attention is paid to them, it allows them a freedom they wouldn't enjoy being the sole attention getter for the defense. And Kobe had PRIME SHAQ, the uber example of this! You really see the mindset of the Kobe Fanatic because they completely ignore this and act as if it's totally irrelevant. Or they'll say "b,b,but Kobe helped Shaq too!!" as if it's even a comparison of who benefits more in that situation. If a prime Jordan has someone to draw that kind of attention, then only a fool wouldn't think that he'd be even MORE efficient. Even so, he STILL shines over everything Kobe's done. Not only that, but he did it across the board, while you're just focusing on scoring (though he still doesn't come close to him). You're also making all types of excuses for his performance. He's the great Kobe so why didn't he find a way to dominate those defenses? (You know, like a prime Shaq. Isn't he actually above Shaq's level, according to Stans? He should have outperformed him. Oh, but he wasn't the team's focal point. Well why not? Because he wasn't good enough to be. See you can't have it both ways. You can't say that he didn't do as well as O'Neil because he wasn't the focal point of the team, then ignore that that was the case BECAUSE HE WASN't GOOD ENOUGH to be.

At any rate, these are Jordan's Finals stats. There's no way you can spin out of this with your usual obfuscation, because they speak for themselves. Instead of just bowing out of this comparison (because you just can't win) like a reasonable, non Kobe fanatic would do, you'll try your usual tactics of trying to spin THE OBVIOUS. That's why you're rep is what it is. Anyone with an IQ over 15 can see through you.

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/stats_finals.htm

Only an idiot would try to argue that in any way those numbers don't crush everything Kobe's done. Only a disengenous type would try to spin things to make their crush look better since they can't do it by actual side by side comparison. See, part of the reason Kobe gets so much "hate" is because of people who try to argue up = down to elevate him. It would be like me trying to somehow shoehorn Wade into Jordan's status by obfuscation, even though it's obvious he's not.

Kobe hasn't set the world on fire in the Finals, and that's that. He's had one seris that I would consider "very good". The others have all been mediocre to subpar. By the way, you're also comparing a PRIME Kobe to some of the numbers Jordan put up at 33 to 35 years old! Which just shows your need to obfuscate even more. Kobe's JUST NOW only 31. Talk about defenses. Get back to me when Kobe goes through something like the Jordan Rules, or those brusing Knicks teams, with handchecking, with "hard" fouls that would be flagrants today. Without Shaq down low. And you're going to tell me Jordan had it easier? You're a joke.

The Finals are the NBA's biggest stage. Kobe's not only had the benefit of the MDE down low, but also Phil Jax and a great supporting team, for the majority of his runs, and yet he's still not been able to truly make them his personal stage, like Jordan did. And for those of us that live in reality, his output is GLARING, and part of the reason many of us just can't elevate him into the kind of pantheon that certain people want him to be in. It's always some kind of dismissal and excuses when he doesn't perform up to his hype, but then ultra praise is heaped on him when he does. Duncan didn't need excuses, Shaq didn't. Hakeem didn't Jordan' doesn't. But Kobe does. Kobe ALWAYS does.
OUTSTANDING POST!!!!!!!!!

[Kellogs4toniee]

This is laughable. First of all, Kobe's never faced defensive pressure the likes of those Pistons and Knicks teams. And he played that way while having the MOST DOMINANT LOW POST THREAT OF ALL TIME on his team taking defensive pressure off of him. Who did Jordan EVER have down low that could take away that kind of attention? Yet Jordan still prevailed and put up numbers that Kobe could never dream of. Any idiot that knows anything about basketeball knows that a big low post threat makes things easier for a wing player because while massive attention is paid to them, it allows them a freedom they wouldn't enjoy being the sole attention getter for the defense. And Kobe had PRIME SHAQ, the uber example of this! You really see the mindset of the Kobe Fanatic because they completely ignore this and act as if it's totally irrelevant. Or they'll say "b,b,but Kobe helped Shaq too!!" as if it's even a comparison of who benefits more in that situation. If a prime Jordan has someone to draw that kind of attention, then only a fool wouldn't think that he'd be even MORE efficient. Even so, he STILL shines over everything Kobe's done. Not only that, but he did it across the board, while you're just focusing on scoring (though he still doesn't come close to him). You're also making all types of excuses for his performance. He's the great Kobe so why didn't he find a way to dominate those defenses? (You know, like a prime Shaq. Isn't he actually above Shaq's level, according to Stans? He should have outperformed him. Oh, but he wasn't the team's focal point. Well why not? Because he wasn't good enough to be. See you can't have it both ways. You can't say that he didn't do as well as O'Neil because he wasn't the focal point of the team, then ignore that that was the case BECAUSE HE WASN't GOOD ENOUGH to be.

At any rate, these are Jordan's Finals stats. There's no way you can spin out of this with your usual obfuscation, because they speak for themselves. Instead of just bowing out of this comparison (because you just can't win) like a reasonable, non Kobe fanatic would do, you'll try your usual tactics of trying to spin THE OBVIOUS. That's why you're rep is what it is. Anyone with an IQ over 15 can see through you.

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/stats_finals.htm

Only an idiot would try to argue that in any way those numbers don't crush everything Kobe's done. Only a disengenous type would try to spin things to make their crush look better since they can't do it by actual side by side comparison. See, part of the reason Kobe gets so much "hate" is because of people who try to argue up = down to elevate him. It would be like me trying to somehow shoehorn Wade into Jordan's status by obfuscation, even though it's obvious he's not.

Kobe hasn't set the world on fire in the Finals, and that's that. He's had one seris that I would consider "very good". The others have all been mediocre to subpar. By the way, you're also comparing a PRIME Kobe to some of the numbers Jordan put up at 33 to 35 years old! Which just shows your need to obfuscate even more. Kobe's JUST NOW only 31. Talk about defenses. Get back to me when Kobe goes through something like the Jordan Rules, or those brusing Knicks teams, with handchecking, with "hard" fouls that would be flagrants today. Without Shaq down low. And you're going to tell me Jordan had it easier? You're a joke.

The Finals are the NBA's biggest stage. Kobe's not only had the benefit of the MDE down low, but also Phil Jax and a great supporting team, for the majority of his runs, and yet he's still not been able to truly make them his personal stage, like Jordan did. And for those of us that live in reality, his output is GLARING, and part of the reason many of us just can't elevate him into the kind of pantheon that certain people want him to be in. It's always some kind of dismissal and excuses when he doesn't perform up to his hype, but then ultra praise is heaped on him when he does. Duncan didn't need excuses, Shaq didn't. Hakeem didn't Jordan' doesn't. But Kobe does. Kobe ALWAYS does.

Wow can you say checkmate? Haha. I feel like I should save that post or something, bound to use it sometime in the future. I want to see what Fatal says about this when compared to his original post.

[BlackMamba24]

damn...HATERS are mad cause kobe's on his way to greatness and his 5th ring..better than jordan :bowdown:

[Alhazred]

damn...HATERS are mad cause kobe's on his way to greatness and his 5th ring..better than jordan :bowdown:

:lol

[Glide2keva]

2000: Indiana Pacers (Historically great defense?)
2001: Philadelphia 76'ers (Historically Great defense?)
2002: New Jersey Nets (Historically Great defense?)
2004: Detroit Pistons (Good, but not Historically Great)
2008: Boston Celtics (Great defensive team)
2009: Orlando Magic: (What defense?)

Kobe faced one all time great defense and one really good defense in the Pistons and he lost both of those series.

Shaq dominated a weak Indiana team, and broken down, and injured Philly team and a wack New Jersey team. The east was weaker than they are now then and the lakers had it easy in the finals, especially with Shaq.

In 2004, Detroit pulled a 5 game sweep and then he led his team in 2008 to get destroyed by Boston and utterly humiliated in he 6th game.

Last year they beat Orlando who's defensive strategy is to shoot as many 3's as they can hoping to outscore the other team.

[Allstar24]

Let me introduce you to google. Do it yourself, moron.
:oldlol:

Why would he do that? The purpose of this topic is for MJ groupies to gang up and prove to everyone how terrible Kobe is in the finals. Now that wouldn't be accomplished if he had just looked it up on google himself.

[Glide2keva]

:oldlol:

Why would he do that? The purpose of this topic is for MJ groupies to gang up and prove to everyone how terrible Kobe is in the finals. Now that wouldn't be accomplished if he had just looked it up on google himself.
Facts are facts, no amount of fox noise level spin can change that.

[okayabc123]

Kobe sucks.

Jordan is GOAT.

You guys are beating a dead horse!!! How many different ways can that dude Know suck on MJ's diCk before he proves that MJ is GOAT.

And how many different ways can these Kobe groupies defend Kobe for just having some horrible stats in the finals?

[chazzy]

http://soupisnotafingerfood.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/deadhorse.jpg

[Raider007]

Kobe Bryant`s stats for the NBA Finals....

4 Champoinships out of
6 appearances

:applause:

[Abraham Lincoln]

2000: Indiana Pacers (Historically great defense?)
2001: Philadelphia 76'ers (Historically Great defense?)
2002: New Jersey Nets (Historically Great defense?)
2004: Detroit Pistons (Good, but not Historically Great)
2008: Boston Celtics (Great defensive team)
2009: Orlando Magic: (What defense?)

Kobe faced one all time great defense and one really good defense in the Pistons and he lost both of those series.

Shaq dominated a weak Indiana team, and broken down, and injured Philly team and a wack New Jersey team. The east was weaker than they are now then and the lakers had it easy in the finals, especially with Shaq.

In 2004, Detroit pulled a 5 game sweep and then he led his team in 2008 to get destroyed by Boston and utterly humiliated in he 6th game.

Last year they beat Orlando who's defensive strategy is to shoot as many 3's as they can hoping to outscore the other team.

Sixers were no worse than Boston or Detroit defensively.

[NBASTATMAN]

Basketball reference now has finals stats. Click on playoffs, go to the year and then look for the finals composite box score. Since you are one of my favorite posters on ISH here you go:

16/5/4 37%
25/8/6 42%
27/6/5 51%
23/3/4 38%
26/5/5 41%
32/6/7 43%





Ouch .. I still think Kobe is one of the best ever... And I feel the guy who started this thread already knew the stats were not that good... Stop hating... That is my job......:lol

[LA_Showtime]

2000: Indiana Pacers (Historically great defense?)
2001: Philadelphia 76'ers (Historically Great defense?)
2002: New Jersey Nets (Historically Great defense?)
2004: Detroit Pistons (Good, but not Historically Great)
2008: Boston Celtics (Great defensive team)
2009: Orlando Magic: (What defense?)

Kobe faced one all time great defense and one really good defense in the Pistons and he lost both of those series.

Shaq dominated a weak Indiana team, and broken down, and injured Philly team and a wack New Jersey team. The east was weaker than they are now then and the lakers had it easy in the finals, especially with Shaq.

In 2004, Detroit pulled a 5 game sweep and then he led his team in 2008 to get destroyed by Boston and utterly humiliated in he 6th game.

Last year they beat Orlando who's defensive strategy is to shoot as many 3's as they can hoping to outscore the other team.

Stop spouting garbage you moron. People like you shouldn't be allowed to have a keyboard. Everyone knows the Western Conference Finals decided who the eventual NBA champion would be. 4 out of 6 ain't bad. Nobody's saying Kobe is better than Jordan anyway, except for a couple of Laker morons.

Again, posters like 97 Bulls might have different intentions, but this thread turned to crap. Personally I think he's just an idiot, because anyone who has an IQ above 1 can google it.

[NBASTATMAN]

Sixers were no worse than Boston or Detroit defensively.



ABE what happened to you... Aaron Mckie guarded Kobe with a broken ankle.. That defense was not in the same league as the Celtics or the PIstons.... They were good but not great.. Shaq also negated their biggest asset on defense... Shaq pummeled poor Mutombo into submission... :bowdown:

[LA_Showtime]

ABE what happened to you... Aaron Mckie guarded Kobe with a broken ankle.. That defense was not in the same league as the Celtics or the PIstons.... They were good but not great.. Shaq also negated their biggest asset on defense... Shaq pummeled poor Mutombo into submission... :bowdown:

Why are there like 10-15 (probably like 4-5 with mult. screen names) who don't support a team and just hate on Kobe and to an extent LeBron. You guys are very sad. :lol

[NBASTATMAN]

This thread should be shut down.......

[NBASTATMAN]

Why are there like 10-15 (probably like 4-5 with mult. screen names) who don't support a team and just hate on Kobe and to an extent LeBron. You guys are very sad. :lol



Wow you are a crazy stan.... I didn't write anything negative about Kobe... I actually am defending him on this thread... This is why Laker stans get no respect... They are idiots......

[Abraham Lincoln]

ABE what happened to you... Aaron Mckie guarded Kobe with a broken ankle.. That defense was not in the same league as the Celtics or the PIstons.... They were good but not great.. Shaq also negated their biggest asset on defense... Shaq pummeled poor Mutombo into submission... :bowdown:Shaq is a problem for any defense. The Sixers of 2001 were injured, but pressured the wings and full court better than the Celtics or Pistons. They were gassed out by the time they reached the Finals. I think the Celtics D had more of an impact on his teammates than it did on him. Clearly against Boston and Detroit he did not do all he could to win. Not blaming him, but he did not leave it all out there like he did in say 2003 against the Spurs. Against the Sixers, he did. Effort =/= performance.

[imdaman99]

Jordan faced a top 3 defense (#2 in defensive rating) during the '92 Finals. Kobe doesn't have any excuses, he just played awful.
How many times has Kobe torched the Spurs in the playoffs? Don't try and tell me that it doesn't mean anything since it wasn't in the Finals. Maybe its Kobe's fault that he always played in the West :confusedshrug: If he was torching the Spurs in the Finals, what would you say than? Were the Spurs not championship caliber teams, perhaps even better than any of the Bulls opponents in the Finals all those years? You're right, Kobe has no excuse in not lighting up the opposition when he wasn't needed in his first 3 Finals.

[LA_Showtime]

Wow you are a crazy stan.... I didn't write anything negative about Kobe... I actually am defending him on this thread... This is why Laker stans get no respect... They are idiots......

Yep. Then I guess you aren't the NBASTATMAN who regularly comes into Laker threads and *****es about Kobe? People like you have a lot of nerve to say anything negative about another team or player, when they themselves don't even support an NBA team.

[LA_Showtime]

Wow you are a crazy stan.... I didn't write anything negative about Kobe... I actually am defending him on this thread... This is why Laker stans get no respect... They are idiots......

Not to mention you edited your post. You're the moron. :oldlol:

[NBASTATMAN]

Yep. Then I guess you aren't the NBASTATMAN who regularly comes into Laker threads and *****es about Kobe? People like you have a lot of nerve to say anything negative about another team or player, when they themselves don't even support an NBA team.


The only good thing I can say about you is that you agree with my statement that you are a idiot.......:lol ...

[Jacks3]

Somebody get Kobe's WCF stats.
I don't have all 6 series but
2001-33 PPG/7 APG/7 RPG/0.8 BPG/1.5 SPG on 51% shooting
2002-27 PPG/5 APG/6 RPG/1 SPG/1 BPG on 43% shooting
2008-29 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/ 1 SPG on 53% shooting
2009-34 PPG/ 5 APG/ 5 RPG on 48% shooting

:eek: :eek: :eek:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[NBASTATMAN]

Not to mention you edited your post. You're the moron. :oldlol:


My edit was because of my spelling.. I did't write anything negative about kobe.. If I wanted to write something negative about Kobe I would do it... Stans like you don't know **** about basketball anyway.... :no:

[NBASTATMAN]

I don't have all 6 series but
2001-33 PPG/7 APG/7 RPG/0.8 BPG/1.5 SPG on 51% shooting
2002-27 PPG/5 APG/6 RPG/1 SPG/1 BPG on 43% shooting
2008-29 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/ 1 SPG on 53% shooting
2009-34 PPG/ 5 APG/ 5 RPG on 48% shooting

:eek: :eek: :eek:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:



Nice to see you exclude all his bad years... :lol


Still the ones you did show are great..... Kobe is one of the best.. Don't think anyone can argue that..

[Juges8932]

Yeah, Kobe has struggled in several of the Finals. Nothing new. I think about the other rounds in the West where things were really decided and how he came up big there. Also, IDK why people feel the need to bring in Jordan everytime.

[Jacks3]

The only bad WCF Kobe has ever had is in 2004. The only bad Finals performance he's had was 2004. That was just a awful year for him. He clearly was nowhere near 100% healthy. Look at how skinny he was- how bad he played- that year compared to 2003.

[NBASTATMAN]

Shaq is a problem for any defense. The Sixers of 2001 were injured, but pressured the wings and full court better than the Celtics or Pistons. They were gassed out by the time they reached the Finals. I think the Celtics D had more of an impact on his teammates than it did on him. Clearly against Boston and Detroit he did not do all he could to win. Not blaming him, but he did not leave it all out there like he did in say 2003 against the Spurs. Against the Sixers, he did. Effort =/= performance.


Vince Carter killed that same Sixers defense .. As the number one option...

[All Net]

NBASTATMAN from what I gather from his previous posts isn't a fan of Kobe but when he plays amazing he does give credit. I think he is known for hyping up Kobe's supporting cast wether that is to make Kobe look not as great as people say or not..can't really make that claim.

If he is a hater he is a reasonable one which is all you can ask for.

[imdaman99]

NBASTATMAN from what I gather from his previous posts isn't a fan of Kobe but when he plays amazing he does give credit. I think he is known for hyping up Kobe's supporting cast wether that is to make Kobe look not as great as people say or not..can't really make that claim.

If he is a hater he is a reasonable one which is all you can ask for.
I get the feeling that whenever he does give Kobe credit, hes saying it with tongue in cheek. He obviously is not a fan of Kobe, thats all I know.

[Knoe Itawl]

How many times has Kobe torched the Spurs in the playoffs? Don't try and tell me that it doesn't mean anything since it wasn't in the Finals. Maybe its Kobe's fault that he always played in the West :confusedshrug: If he was torching the Spurs in the Finals, what would you say than? Were the Spurs not championship caliber teams, perhaps even better than any of the Bulls opponents in the Finals all those years? You're right, Kobe has no excuse in not lighting up the opposition when he wasn't needed in his first 3 Finals.

:oldlol: @ saying Jordan wasn't "needed" in any of his Finals. How can a person hyped up to be potential GOAT and blah blah blah not be "needed' in 3 Finals apperances? Imagine saying that about ANY other all time great. Kobe Guys come up with all types of weird logic that comes back to bite them.

This thread ain't about the Spurs series btw (which he was allowed to feast on the Spurs PRIMARILY because he had Shaq down low and DRob and Duncan were more concerned with him than Kobe, but Kobe fans don't want to hear one peep about a dominant low post presences effect on a wing player). But that's for another thread.

Kobe Guys will do two things in this thread:

A. Make up excuses like always.

B. Bring up other playoff series that have NOTHING to do with this thread, which are his FINALS numbers.

That tells you what you need to know. Namely they can't dispute the facts, so have to go to something else.

[Knoe Itawl]

Nice to see you exclude all his bad years... :lol


Still the ones you did show are great..... Kobe is one of the best.. Don't think anyone can argue that..

See, that's what these overly defensive Stans can't comprehend. No one says he isn't great. It's just that he's been hyped to be greater than he is. If he was truly THAT great, his FINALS performances would be legendary/all time and he wouldn't need excuses as to why they're not. You know, like Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Duncan, etc. don't need them.

Kobe guys cop the most excuses for him than any other player I've seen. Again, that should tell you something.

[All Net]

I get the feeling that whenever he does give Kobe credit, hes saying it with tongue in cheek. He obviously is not a fan of Kobe, thats all I know.

If all so called Kobe haters were like that NBA forums would be a better place. There are a few posters who don't like Kobe but are reasonable.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Vince Carter killed that same Sixers defense .. As the number one option...
What happened in Game 7? And you make it sound as though Vince was not an elite player. His best game of the series was in large part from the 3 point line. That game he was as scorching hot as I have ever seen any player from the outside.

[Jacks3]

And yet Jordan/Bird/Duncan etc have all had poor Finals performances. :lol

[LA_Showtime]

See, that's what these overly defensive Stans can't comprehend. No one says he isn't great. It's just that he's been hyped to be greater than he is. If he was truly THAT great, his FINALS performances would be legendary/all time and he wouldn't need excuses as to why they're not. You know, like Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Duncan, etc. don't need them.

Kobe guys cop the most excuses for him than any other player I've seen. Again, that should tell you something.

Relax, buddy, no one is saying that Kobe is better than MJ. Anyone who follows basketball knows that while Kobe has had a great career, he's nowhere near as dominant as a Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, LeBron James, etc.

Excuses? When people like yourself constantly attack a player, you can't help but stand up for him. I'm assuming that you actually watch basketball and support a team. If you had 10-15 dedicated people to constantly hate on that team/players on the team, then you would do the same thing.

[LA_Showtime]

What happened in Game 7? And you make it sound as though Vince was not an elite player. His best game of the series was in large part from the 3 point line. That game he was as scorching hot as I have ever seen any player from the outside.

Vince Carter has to be one of the most underrated players on this board. You would think he was nothing more than a role player judging by some of the comments.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Also how did Philly possibly beat the heavily favored Lakers in that game? I don't buy the rust excuse since it was actually the Lakers who started that game very well. That is until Allen heated up and the Lakers just stagnated. Kobe had a subpar game as well. Don't forget the Sixers damn near won Game 2 as well, if not for a key Fisher 3 point shot.

[All Net]

Relax, buddy, no one is saying that Kobe is better than MJ. Anyone who follows basketball knows that while Kobe has had a great career, he's nowhere near as dominant as a Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, LeBron James, etc.

Excuses? When people like yourself constantly attack a player, you can't help but stand up for him. I'm assuming that you actually watch basketball and support a team. If you had 10-15 dedicated people to constantly hate on that team/players on the team, then you would do the same thing.

:wtf: I don't think Lebron belongs in that group yet.

[Knoe Itawl]

Relax, buddy, no one is saying that Kobe is better than MJ. Anyone who follows basketball knows that while Kobe has had a great career, he's nowhere near as dominant as a Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, LeBron James, etc.

Excuses? When people like yourself constantly attack a player, you can't help but stand up for him. I'm assuming that you actually watch basketball and support a team. If you had 10-15 dedicated people to constantly hate on that team/players on the team, then you would do the same thing.

Stand for him, that's fine. But don't stand for him when he can't be stood for and bullshyt. Just accept things the way they are. I guarantee Kobe would get a lot less of what you call "hate" if more of his fans could do that.

He's had a great career. He's had great performances. He's had great series. What he has NOT done is have an exemplary Finals record, given his hype and it's not "hating" on him to point that out. It is what it is. Trying to deny that, or spin it or deflect from it makes a person a blind Stan. Period.

[NBASTATMAN]

NBASTATMAN from what I gather from his previous posts isn't a fan of Kobe but when he plays amazing he does give credit. I think he is known for hyping up Kobe's supporting cast wether that is to make Kobe look not as great as people say or not..can't really make that claim.

If he is a hater he is a reasonable one which is all you can ask for.


:applause: A person with a honest opinion... How refreshing... Not a LAKER fan but I recognize Kobe's brilliance on the basketball court.. While most diss his teammates I also recognize their talents...

[Abraham Lincoln]

Vince Carter has to be one of the most underrated players on this board. You would think he was nothing more than a role player judging by some of the comments.
Allen Iverson as well. :cheers:

[LA_Showtime]

:wtf: I don't think Lebron belongs in that group yet.

If he's not there yet, he's pretty damn close. I really think that LeBron James surpassed Kobe Bryant last season. Nothing to take away from Kobe, but LeBron is the more dominant player. He's more efficient, has a better all around game, has continued to improve as a defender, is a great leader, and almost took the Cavaliers to the NBA Finals. He has to do everything for the Cavaliers, and they're still one of the best teams in the NBA.

[LA_Showtime]

Stand for him, that's fine. But don't stand for him when he can't be stood for and bullshyt. Just accept things the way they are. I guarantee Kobe would get a lot less of what you call "hate" if more of his fans could do that.

He's had a great career. He's had great performances. He's had great series. What he has NOT done is have an exemplary Finals record, given his hype and it's not "hating" on him to point that out. It is what it is. Trying to deny that, or spin it or deflect from it makes a person a blind Stan. Period.

His NBA Finals performances do not put him down a notch in my book. What bothers me is that he blatantly chose individual success over team success when the Shaq/Kobe dynasty broke up. I think 50% of the blame should go to Shaq too, but let's be honest here, if Kobe had walked up to Buss and said, "You aren't letting Shaq leave. He leaves, I leave" then the dynasty never would have ended.

[the even bigger black guy]

Stand for him, that's fine. But don't stand for him when he can't be stood for and bullshyt. Just accept things the way they are. I guarantee Kobe would get a lot less of what you call "hate" if more of his fans could do that.

He's had a great career. He's had great performances. He's had great series. What he has NOT done is have an exemplary Finals record, given his hype and it's not "hating" on him to point that out. It is what it is. Trying to deny that, or spin it or deflect from it makes a person a blind Stan. Period.

The only Stan in this thread is you. You dedicate your entire existence on this forum to putting down Kobe. Every time he accomplishes something new, you shine a spotlight on anything you consider negative about him. A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. That is you. If you honestly believe you aren't just as big a Stan as dizzle or anyone else, then you are blind.

[Abraham Lincoln]

:wtf: I don't think Lebron belongs in that group yet.
According to most on this board a peaked Doctor in '76 could not hold LeBron's jockstrap.

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/erv0/large/erv0-035.jpg

[ProfessorMurder]

This is laughable...

Regarding Know Itawl's great post all I have to say is:

ROASTED, TOASTED, AND BURNT TO A CRISP




That was an absolutely great post.

[LA_Showtime]

NBASTATMAN from what I gather from his previous posts isn't a fan of Kobe but when he plays amazing he does give credit. I think he is known for hyping up Kobe's supporting cast wether that is to make Kobe look not as great as people say or not..can't really make that claim.

If he is a hater he is a reasonable one which is all you can ask for.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. :lol I think he's just another moron who doesn't know anything about basketball.

[NBASTATMAN]

What happened in Game 7? And you make it sound as though Vince was not an elite player. His best game of the series was in large part from the 3 point line. That game he was as scorching hot as I have ever seen any player from the outside.


Vince Carter did the anti Kobe thing.. Took something else over basketball... That is what makes Kobe so good... Basketball is his only passion.........VC probably wins that game if he didn't do so much flying that day.... That ended any chance of VC becoming a true superstar.. I believe he fell off after that... Not sure how fast after but he did.... Either way I can't put the Sixers defense anywhere near the Celts or Pistons.... Not when Mckie was defending with a broken ankle...

[LA_Showtime]

Allen Iverson as well. :cheers:

Yeah. And Tracy McGrady will soon join them.

[LA_Showtime]

Vince Carter did the anti Kobe thing.. Took something else over basketball... That is what makes Kobe so good... Basketball is his only passion.........VC probably wins that game if he didn't do so much flying that day.... That ended any chance of VC becoming a true superstar.. I believe he fell off after that... Not sure how fast after but he did.... Either way I can't put the Sixers defense anywhere near the Celts or Pistons.... Not when Mckie was defending with a broken ankle...

You don't have to worship basketball to be considered a superstar. A lot of players have chosen other things over basketball, namely that guy named Michael Jordan who decided to try playing baseball.

[Knoe Itawl]

The only Stan in this thread is you. You dedicate your entire existence on this forum to putting down Kobe. Every time he accomplishes something new, you shine a spotlight on anything you consider negative about him. A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. That is you. If you honestly believe you aren't just as big a Stan as dizzle or anyone else, then you are blind.

Typical "Attack the messenger" response of a key Stan. I don't get involved with that nonsense because frankly you don't have shyt to say. You're no better than a dizzle, jacks, etc. etc. and are worthy of ignore. As usual, you have no argument or defense so you deflect. Which is what all good little Stans do. What I consider "negative" about him? LOL, his Finals performances have a lot of "negative" in them without me having to consider it.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Vince Carter did the anti Kobe thing.. Took something else over basketball... That is what makes Kobe so good... Basketball is his only passion.........VC probably wins that game if he didn't do so much flying that day.... That ended any chance of VC becoming a true superstar.. I believe he fell off after that... Not sure how fast after but he did.... Either way I can't put the Sixers defense anywhere near the Celts or Pistons.... Not when Mckie was defending with a broken ankle...
This has nothing to do with Kobe. The fact is the Sixers were not inferior defensively to the Celtics or Pistons.

[Allstar24]

Facts are facts, no amount of fox noise level spin can change that.
How am I trying to change facts you idiot. My point is, how many times has this topic been discussed? Yet, insecure MJ fans need to dig up Kobe's finals numbers to make themselves feel better because he's the leading scorer in the league and has not declined like they predicted him to this season. How sad.

[Jacks3]

You're no better than a dizzle, jacks, etc. etc. and are worthy of ignore. .
:oldlol: @ this moron.

[Knoe Itawl]

His NBA Finals performances do not put him down a notch in my book. What bothers me is that he blatantly chose individual success over team success when the Shaq/Kobe dynasty broke up. I think 50% of the blame should go to Shaq too, but let's be honest here, if Kobe had walked up to Buss and said, "You aren't letting Shaq leave. He leaves, I leave" then the dynasty never would have ended.

And though I think you're one of the few decent LA posters on here, who are reasonable about him, the bolded highlights my issues with a lot of Kobe fans. It doesn't matter to them how he performs, his negatives should never be considered. I would say if you're hyped to the level that he's been, and you've been to the Finals that many times, the MAJORITY of the time you should have put on performances that were on par with other legends and left a clear stamp. Instead, he often did the opposite of that. Does it mean he's still not a great player? No. Should it be considered along with the rest of his career to balance all the hype vs. the substance of what he's accomplished on the NbA's biggest stage?

To me there is no way in hell it shouldn't. We'll have to disagree.

[Lodi Dodi]

This is laughable. First of all, Kobe's never faced defensive pressure the likes of those Pistons and Knicks teams. And he played that way while having the MOST DOMINANT LOW POST THREAT OF ALL TIME on his team taking defensive pressure off of him. Who did Jordan EVER have down low that could take away that kind of attention? Yet Jordan still prevailed and put up numbers that Kobe could never dream of. Any idiot that knows anything about basketeball knows that a big low post threat makes things easier for a wing player because while massive attention is paid to them, it allows them a freedom they wouldn't enjoy being the sole attention getter for the defense. And Kobe had PRIME SHAQ, the uber example of this! You really see the mindset of the Kobe Fanatic because they completely ignore this and act as if it's totally irrelevant. Or they'll say "b,b,but Kobe helped Shaq too!!" as if it's even a comparison of who benefits more in that situation. If a prime Jordan has someone to draw that kind of attention, then only a fool wouldn't think that he'd be even MORE efficient. Even so, he STILL shines over everything Kobe's done. Not only that, but he did it across the board, while you're just focusing on scoring (though he still doesn't come close to him). You're also making all types of excuses for his performance. He's the great Kobe so why didn't he find a way to dominate those defenses? (You know, like a prime Shaq. Isn't he actually above Shaq's level, according to Stans? He should have outperformed him. Oh, but he wasn't the team's focal point. Well why not? Because he wasn't good enough to be. See you can't have it both ways. You can't say that he didn't do as well as O'Neil because he wasn't the focal point of the team, then ignore that that was the case BECAUSE HE WASN't GOOD ENOUGH to be.

At any rate, these are Jordan's Finals stats. There's no way you can spin out of this with your usual obfuscation, because they speak for themselves. Instead of just bowing out of this comparison (because you just can't win) like a reasonable, non Kobe fanatic would do, you'll try your usual tactics of trying to spin THE OBVIOUS. That's why you're rep is what it is. Anyone with an IQ over 15 can see through you.

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/stats_finals.htm

Only an idiot would try to argue that in any way those numbers don't crush everything Kobe's done. Only a disengenous type would try to spin things to make their crush look better since they can't do it by actual side by side comparison. See, part of the reason Kobe gets so much "hate" is because of people who try to argue up = down to elevate him. It would be like me trying to somehow shoehorn Wade into Jordan's status by obfuscation, even though it's obvious he's not.

Kobe hasn't set the world on fire in the Finals, and that's that. He's had one seris that I would consider "very good". The others have all been mediocre to subpar. By the way, you're also comparing a PRIME Kobe to some of the numbers Jordan put up at 33 to 35 years old! Which just shows your need to obfuscate even more. Kobe's JUST NOW only 31. Talk about defenses. Get back to me when Kobe goes through something like the Jordan Rules, or those brusing Knicks teams, with handchecking, with "hard" fouls that would be flagrants today. Without Shaq down low. And you're going to tell me Jordan had it easier? You're a joke.

The Finals are the NBA's biggest stage. Kobe's not only had the benefit of the MDE down low, but also Phil Jax and a great supporting team, for the majority of his runs, and yet he's still not been able to truly make them his personal stage, like Jordan did. And for those of us that live in reality, his output is GLARING, and part of the reason many of us just can't elevate him into the kind of pantheon that certain people want him to be in. It's always some kind of dismissal and excuses when he doesn't perform up to his hype, but then ultra praise is heaped on him when he does. Duncan didn't need excuses, Shaq didn't. Hakeem didn't Jordan' doesn't. But Kobe does. Kobe ALWAYS does.

Flawless Victory.

[ProfessorMurder]

:oldlol: @ this moron.

You said Kobe was the GOAT after his buzzer beater against the Kings...........

If you think Knoe Itawl is a moron, I don't even know what word describes you.

[NBASTATMAN]

This has nothing to do with Kobe. The fact is the Sixers were not inferior defensively to the Celtics or Pistons.



I respect your opinion.. As I have read plenty of your posts.. But I have to disagree with you... That Sixers team was rated 5th in the league that year.. The Pistons and Celts were both rated TOP 2.. I guess we can agree to disagree...

[NBASTATMAN]

You said Kobe was the GOAT after his buzzer beater against the Kings...........

If you think Knoe Itawl is a moron, I don't even know what word describes you.



LOL.. I agree...

[LA_Showtime]

And though I think you're one of the few decent LA posters on here, who are reasonable about him, the bolded highlights my issues with a lot of Kobe fans. It doesn't matter to them how he performs, his negatives should never be considered. I would say if you're hyped to the level that he's been, and you've been to the Finals that many times, the MAJORITY of the time you should have put on performances that were on par with other legends and left a clear stamp. Instead, he often did the opposite of that. Does it mean he's still not a great player? No. Should it be considered along with the rest of his career to balance all the hype vs. the substance of what he's accomplished on the NbA's biggest stage?

To me there is no way in hell it shouldn't. We'll have to disagree.

The only reason they don't bother me is because I don't have Kobe Bryant in the same breathe as Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, etc. He's very close, but in terms of dominance he's not quite up to par. While his NBA Finals performances are substandard for a player of his caliber, they do not bother me because for the most part the Lakers have won. The Detroit series can go back to choosing individual accolades over team success. As for the NBA Finals against the Celtics, nobody had any success against them. The best player in the NBA (or second best player), LeBron James, struggled mightily against them too. It's not like Kobe Bryant's numbers were vastly inferior to the other great players in the NBA.

[Duckie MAN]

Flawless Victory.

flawed victory

[raptorfan_dr07]

Vince Carter did the anti Kobe thing.. Took something else over basketball... That is what makes Kobe so good... Basketball is his only passion.........VC probably wins that game if he didn't do so much flying that day.... That ended any chance of VC becoming a true superstar.. I believe he fell off after that... Not sure how fast after but he did.... Either way I can't put the Sixers defense anywhere near the Celts or Pistons.... Not when Mckie was defending with a broken ankle...

And yet we were one shot away from advancing to the ECF. His attending the graduation earlier that day was not why we lost. Even if he didn't go we still would have lost that series IMO. Philly was just a better team than we were. He fell off after that because he got routinely injured, the team was average to mediocre at best, and he just stopped trying. That's what really hurt him, not because he went to the graduation.

[All Net]

The only reason they don't bother me is because I don't have Kobe Bryant in the same breathe as Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, etc. He's very close, but in terms of dominance he's not quite up to par. While his NBA Finals performances are substandard for a player of his caliber, they do not bother me because for the most part the Lakers have won. The Detroit series can go back to choosing individual accolades over team success. As for the NBA Finals against the Celtics, nobody had any success against them. The best player in the NBA (or second best player), LeBron James, struggled mightily against them too. It's not like Kobe Bryant's numbers were vastly inferior to the other great players in the NBA.

Well put

:applause:

[LA_Showtime]

And yet we were one shot away from advancing to the ECF. His attending the graduation earlier that day was not why we lost. Even if he didn't go we still would have lost that series IMO. Philly was just a better team than we were. He fell off after that because he got routinely injured, the team was average to mediocre at best, and he just stopped trying. That's what really hurt him, not because he went to the graduation.

As the only Raptors fan on ISH (kidding, sort of), how do you feel about Vince Carter?

[Knoe Itawl]

The only reason they don't bother me is because I don't have Kobe Bryant in the same breathe as Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, etc. He's very close, but in terms of dominance he's not quite up to par. While his NBA Finals performances are substandard for a player of his caliber, they do not bother me because for the most part the Lakers have won. The Detroit series can go back to choosing individual accolades over team success. As for the NBA Finals against the Celtics, nobody had any success against them. The best player in the NBA (or second best player), LeBron James, struggled mightily against them too. It's not like Kobe Bryant's numbers were vastly inferior to the other great players in the NBA.

I feel you. Well try to realize that my arguments aren't really focused towards you. I know you have to defend your boy, and that's all good. Admittedly, I don't care for him, that's no secret. But I actually have tried to be fair towards him (obviously if you're anti someone, you're going to have biases just the same as if you're pro someone). I've never argued he isn't great, or that he's not in a class of being one of the best players throughout his career (regardless of what moronic Stans want people to believe). I really only argue against what I see to be his being overrated in certain quarters.

On a different note, regarding the Pistons and the Celtics (not singling you out, but since they were brought up I wanted to comment on them), it's interesting that the Lakers were considered overwhelming favorites in both of those series. The vaunted defense of the Celtics and the Pistons were never overly talked about BEFOREHAND. I witnessed both media pundits and the fans alike treating the series like the Lakers were winners before it even started, and Kobe was going to have his way. Of course, AFTER the series were over, you get all these revisionists who want to spout stuff you KNOW they weren't saying prior.

I didn't hear a mumbling word from the majority of Kobe fans before those series about how great the Pistons and Celtics d was. Now it's become a rallying cry for the "make excuses for Kobe" crowd and that's laughable.

[artex]

kobe dunks on reindeers, jordan never even got close to accomplishing that

[Lakers13]

kobe dunks on reindeers, jordan never even got close to accomplishing that

Jordan dunked on Aliens :rolleyes:

[Jacks3]

You said Kobe was the GOAT after his buzzer beater against the Kings...........

If you think Knoe Itawl is a moron, I don't even know what word describes you.
:oldlol: @ this clown taking me seriously.

[NuggetsFan]

16/5/4 37%
25/8/6 42%
27/6/5 51%
23/3/4 38%
26/5/5 41%
32/6/7 43%

A few ugly series in there but Kobe is a good playoff performer. Don't see what the BIG problem with them are tho. Lakers still won 4\6 and unless people try to prop up Kobe to be something he's not(GOAT or higher up in the rankings) than I don't think it's that bad.

[Jacks3]

LOL.. I agree...
You might be a bigger moron than Knoe and that's saying something. :oldlol:

[LA_Showtime]

I feel you. Well try to realize that my arguments aren't really focused towards you. I know you have to defend your boy, and that's all good. Admittedly, I don't care for him, that's no secret. But I actually have tried to be fair towards him (obviously if you're anti someone, you're going to have biases just the same as if you're pro someone). I've never argued he isn't great, or that he's not in a class of being one of the best players throughout his career (regardless of what moronic Stans want people to believe). I really only argue against what I see to be his being overrated in certain quarters.

On a different note, regarding the Pistons and the Celtics (not singling you out, but since they were brought up I wanted to comment on them), it's interesting that the Lakers were considered overwhelming favorites in both of those series. The vaunted defense of the Celtics and the Pistons were never overly talked about BEFOREHAND. I witnessed both media pundits and the fans alike treating the series like the Lakers were winners before it even started, and Kobe was going to have his way. Of course, AFTER the series were over, you get all these revisionists who want to spout stuff you KNOW they weren't saying prior.

I didn't hear a mumbling word from the majority of Kobe fans before those series about how great the Pistons and Celtics d was. Now it's become a rallying cry for the "make excuses for Kobe" crowd and that's laughable.

Lol I can sort of understand where you're coming from. After all, Laker fans have to listen to Kobe fanboys too.

[phoenix18]

Basketball reference now has finals stats. Click on playoffs, go to the year and then look for the finals composite box score. Since you are one of my favorite posters on ISH here you go:

16/5/4 37%
25/8/6 42%
27/6/5 51%
23/3/4 38%
26/5/5 41%
32/6/7 43%

That is nasty. Was that against the Nets? They really had no answer.

Anyways, I couldnt bother to read most of the thread. Pointless to nth degree.

Sidenote: It's Kobe's not Kobes. The latter is my nickname for the Black Mamba, the Bouncing Linguine, The Black Luigi....

[TryToBeUnbias]

A few ugly series in there but Kobe is a good playoff performer. Don't see what the BIG problem with them are tho. Lakers still won 4\6 and unless people try to prop up Kobe to be something he's not(GOAT or higher up in the rankings) than I don't think it's that bad.
The overall numbers are never bad its the fg% that ppl bring up.

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe is one of the best I have ever seen... But his fans think anyone who doesn't slurp Kobe is a hater... I will leave on that note... Some stans even label true Laker fans as Haterz... As Donnie Brasco once said fugetaboutit

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe is one of the best I have ever seen... But his fans think anyone who doesn't slurp Kobe is a hater... I will leave on that note... Some stans even label true Laker fans as Haterz... As Donnie Brasco once said fugetaboutit

No one's calling you a hater. I am calling you a moron, which is what you are. What's the problem?

[NuggetsFan]

The overall numbers are never bad its the fg% that ppl bring up.

Well 16\5\4 and 23\3\4 aren't really "eye popping numbers" for somebody as good as Kobe.

[NBASTATMAN]

No one's calling you a hater. I am calling you a moron, which is what you are. What's the problem?


If anyone could spot one it would be you...... But You are wrong this one time......:roll:

[LA_Showtime]

If anyone could spot one it would be you...... But You are wrong this one time......:roll:

Go watch re-runs of Cheers, old man.

[NBASTATMAN]

Go watch re-runs of Cheers, old man.



You lose... :lol ... :roll: :oldlol: :rockon:

[LA_Showtime]

You lose... :lol ... :roll: :oldlol: :rockon:

Are you honestly 40 years old? You watched the Showtime Lakers and Boston Celtics? They played in the '80s. Unless you were like 5 years old, then that puts you around 40. Why do you act like this? I'm 19, so at least I have an excuse. What's yours?

[NBASTATMAN]

Are you honestly 40 years old? You watched the Showtime Lakers and Boston Celtics? They played in the '80s. Unless you were like 5 years old, then that puts you around 40. Why do you act like this? I'm 19, so at least I have an excuse. What's yours?



WTF.... No wonder... Sorry little guy.. I won't mess with you again... :ohwell:

[artex]

Jordan dunked on Aliens :rolleyes:


**** i forgot about space jam, that movie was epic... damn you michael!!!

[LA_Showtime]

WTF.... No wonder... Sorry little guy.. I won't mess with you again... :ohwell:

And you ignore my question. Typical. Do yourself a favor and give yourself a more realistic age. No one is buying that you are anywhere close to 40 years old. How about age 12?

[DTD]

Against the team regarded as the 1st or 2nd best team of the last decade, The San Antonio Spurs, Kobe Bryant averages 28.2 PPG on 47.3 FG% in 30 total Playoff games.

The WCF those early years (Sac and Portland series' included) were known as the real NBA Finals amongst basketball purists. The Finals were a mere formality.

[juju151111]

Basketball reference now has finals stats. Click on playoffs, go to the year and then look for the finals composite box score. Since you are one of my favorite posters on ISH here you go:

16/5/4 37%
25/8/6 42%
27/6/5 51%
23/3/4 38%
26/5/5 41%
32/6/7 43%
Truly Goat stats there.

[Jacks3]

Against the team regarded as the 1st or 2nd best team of the last decade, The San Antonio Spurs, Kobe Bryant averages 28.2 PPG on 47.3 FG% in 30 total Playoff games.

The WCF those early years (Sac and Portland series' included) were known as the real NBA Finals amongst basketball purists. The Finals were a mere formality.
This.

[Disaprine]

:roll: A classic ISH thread, Some guy is trying to find some stats and some loser starts a MJ vs Kobe debate. classic :roll:

[Jacks3]

Basketball reference now has finals stats. Click on playoffs, go to the year and then look for the finals composite box score. Since you are one of my favorite posters on ISH here you go:

16/5/4 37%
25/8/6 42%
27/6/5 51%
23/3/4 38%
26/5/5 41%
32/6/7 43%
You should have included SPG/BPG/FT%/3 PT%. Also, Kobe's 2000 series is not entirely accurate. He only played 2 min in Game 2 and that heavily hurt his stats. Not to mention the excellent man-to-man and team defense he played in all those series.

[raptorfan_dr07]

As the only Raptors fan on ISH (kidding, sort of), how do you feel about Vince Carter?

I'll admit, I was pretty pissed off at the way he left the franchise. Sure management kinda screwed up locking guys like Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, and Alvin Williams into huge contracts, but Vince should never have stopped trying simple as that. When he openly admitted that he didn't try as hard as he could have, he was just confirming what many of us had witnessed with our own eyes. I used to get upset at every 30 point game he would have with NJ and whenever Kidd and RJ called him a great teammate. His tanking didn't allow us to receive fair value in return for him.

That 2001 run though was something amazing. We beat the favored Knicks in the first round, the team that eliminated us the year before, then Vince and AI had an epic duel in the second round, both dropping 50 like it was nothing. That season led me to believe good things were on the way and we all know what happened next.

Over the years though I have come to appreciated him a little more. The way he left still leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth though.

[sbw19]

I think those who rely on stats do the discussion a huge disservice. Over the years Kobe has perfected his skills and feel for the game to the point where he's starting to force many to constantly re-evaluate their opinions of his place among the alltime greats. That in mind, I cannot stress enough how unfair it is to judge his career before it's all said and done. He's still in his prime and his skillset and work ethic will likely allow him to play at a very high level longer than the average superstar, plus he has a talented team to help him achieve so much more.

And quite honestly, he's forcing his detractors to cower and look back rather than look ahead simply because (now that he's at the top of his game) they know that he's in a position to exceed not only their not-so-lofty expectations, but quite possibly his own. Will he? Only time will tell, but one thing is for sure: his legend isn't set in stone...yet.

Not even close.

[NBASTATMAN]

I think those who rely on stats do the discussion a huge disservice. Over the years Kobe has perfected his skills and feel for the game to the point where he's starting to force many to constantly re-evaluate their opinions of his place among the alltime greats. That in mind, I cannot stress enough how unfair it is to judge his career before it's all said and done. He's still in his prime and his skillset and work ethic will likely allow him to play at a very high level longer than the average superstar, plus he has a talented team to help him achieve so much more.

And quite honestly, he's forcing his detractors to cower and look back rather than look ahead simply because (now that he's at the top of his game) they know that he's in a position to exceed not only their not-so-lofty expectations, but quite possibly his own. Will he? Only time will tell, but one thing is for sure: his legend isn't set in stone...yet.

Not even close.


.. I see where you are coming from.. Kobe has the opp to get into the conversation of top 5-7 ever... I didn't see this after the Boston Series.... But you can't simply wash his past away... It is there for him to be judged..

[the even bigger black guy]

Typical "Attack the messenger" response of a key Stan. I don't get involved with that nonsense because frankly you don't have shyt to say. You're no better than a dizzle, jacks, etc. etc. and are worthy of ignore. As usual, you have no argument or defense so you deflect. Which is what all good little Stans do. What I consider "negative" about him? LOL, his Finals performances have a lot of "negative" in them without me having to consider it.

I'm not defending Kobe. I'm just pointing our your hypocrisy in calling people Stans when that is exactly what you are. Do you do anything other than attempt to belittle Kobe?

[Roundball_Rock]

You should have included SPG/BPG/FT%/3 PT%. Also, Kobe's 2000 series is not entirely accurate. He only played 2 min in Game 2 and that heavily hurt his stats. Not to mention the excellent man-to-man and team defense he played in all those series.

I was too lazy to do that. I just wanted to help 97 and give him the basic numbers. I am on your side. The real NBA finals were the WCF until 2004 when the East finally produced a championship caliber team. In the WCF Kobe excelled (unfortunately. I was rooting for Portland in 2000).

[sbw19]

.. I see where you are coming from.. Kobe has the opp to get into the conversation of top 5-7 ever... I didn't see this after the Boston Series.... But you can't simply wash his past away... It is there for him to be judged..

I agree, but people will judge him based on what he's able to accomplish. After all, no one is judging Jordan (or any other top 10 all-timer for that matter) on the basis of his failures.

[DatDudeD]

I agree, but people will judge him based on what he's able to accomplish. After all, no one is judging Jordan (or any other top 10 all-timer for that matter) on the basis of his failures.

thats a damn good point a lot of other players have had failures during there careers at one point or another not even MJ is the exception to that, they never seem to be taken into account though. Granted jordan ,bird , Magic etc... they excelled on a more consistent basis but even they dropped the ball every now and then

[zabuza666]

Kobe played well in the 2000/2001/2002/2009 Finals. He struggled in 2004/2008, but to be fair, he was facing historically good defenses. Overall, he's been a phenomenal post-season performer throughout his career.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[zabuza666]

This is laughable. First of all, Kobe's never faced defensive pressure the likes of those Pistons and Knicks teams. And he played that way while having the MOST DOMINANT LOW POST THREAT OF ALL TIME on his team taking defensive pressure off of him. Who did Jordan EVER have down low that could take away that kind of attention? Yet Jordan still prevailed and put up numbers that Kobe could never dream of. Any idiot that knows anything about basketeball knows that a big low post threat makes things easier for a wing player because while massive attention is paid to them, it allows them a freedom they wouldn't enjoy being the sole attention getter for the defense. And Kobe had PRIME SHAQ, the uber example of this! You really see the mindset of the Kobe Fanatic because they completely ignore this and act as if it's totally irrelevant. Or they'll say "b,b,but Kobe helped Shaq too!!" as if it's even a comparison of who benefits more in that situation. If a prime Jordan has someone to draw that kind of attention, then only a fool wouldn't think that he'd be even MORE efficient. Even so, he STILL shines over everything Kobe's done. Not only that, but he did it across the board, while you're just focusing on scoring (though he still doesn't come close to him). You're also making all types of excuses for his performance. He's the great Kobe so why didn't he find a way to dominate those defenses? (You know, like a prime Shaq. Isn't he actually above Shaq's level, according to Stans? He should have outperformed him. Oh, but he wasn't the team's focal point. Well why not? Because he wasn't good enough to be. See you can't have it both ways. You can't say that he didn't do as well as O'Neil because he wasn't the focal point of the team, then ignore that that was the case BECAUSE HE WASN't GOOD ENOUGH to be.

At any rate, these are Jordan's Finals stats. There's no way you can spin out of this with your usual obfuscation, because they speak for themselves. Instead of just bowing out of this comparison (because you just can't win) like a reasonable, non Kobe fanatic would do, you'll try your usual tactics of trying to spin THE OBVIOUS. That's why you're rep is what it is. Anyone with an IQ over 15 can see through you.

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/stats_finals.htm

Only an idiot would try to argue that in any way those numbers don't crush everything Kobe's done. Only a disengenous type would try to spin things to make their crush look better since they can't do it by actual side by side comparison. See, part of the reason Kobe gets so much "hate" is because of people who try to argue up = down to elevate him. It would be like me trying to somehow shoehorn Wade into Jordan's status by obfuscation, even though it's obvious he's not.

Kobe hasn't set the world on fire in the Finals, and that's that. He's had one seris that I would consider "very good". The others have all been mediocre to subpar. By the way, you're also comparing a PRIME Kobe to some of the numbers Jordan put up at 33 to 35 years old! Which just shows your need to obfuscate even more. Kobe's JUST NOW only 31. Talk about defenses. Get back to me when Kobe goes through something like the Jordan Rules, or those brusing Knicks teams, with handchecking, with "hard" fouls that would be flagrants today. Without Shaq down low. And you're going to tell me Jordan had it easier? You're a joke.

The Finals are the NBA's biggest stage. Kobe's not only had the benefit of the MDE down low, but also Phil Jax and a great supporting team, for the majority of his runs, and yet he's still not been able to truly make them his personal stage, like Jordan did. And for those of us that live in reality, his output is GLARING, and part of the reason many of us just can't elevate him into the kind of pantheon that certain people want him to be in. It's always some kind of dismissal and excuses when he doesn't perform up to his hype, but then ultra praise is heaped on him when he does. Duncan didn't need excuses, Shaq didn't. Hakeem didn't Jordan' doesn't. But Kobe does. Kobe ALWAYS does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8slXGa8VHk

[indiefan23]

Let me introduce you to google. Do it yourself, moron.

Heh, it looks like LA Showtime has looked his stats up himself and is a little bitter about the results. My favourite is shooting more 3's at 17% then the second leading scorer of all time shot FG's and his center was shooting over 60%.

[indiefan23]

I agree, but people will judge him based on what he's able to accomplish. After all, no one is judging Jordan (or any other top 10 all-timer for that matter) on the basis of his failures.

Yea, like what are Jordan's failures? Losing in 7 to the champion pistons? Losing to the 86 Celtics, possibly the best team in history, in his second year? ;0 Or Magic's failures? Getting HIV and having to stop playing? Or Isiah's failures? Losing a title because he couldn't destroy the lakers on an injured ankle TWO games in a row? Or Bird's failures, getting hurt in his 30's and having to retire.

I don't recall ANY top 10 all timers blowing multiple series due to their shoddy play no matter what defences... or being swept out/4-1'ed out/not make the playoffs the the majority of their career. Hmm, not one of them... why is that now?

[LA_Showtime]

Heh, it looks like LA Showtime has looked his stats up himself and is a little bitter about the results. My favourite is shooting more 3's at 17% then the second leading scorer of all time shot FG's and his center was shooting over 60%.

You should read the other pages before making these retarded offhand comments.

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe played well in the 2000/2001/2002/2009 Finals. He struggled in 2004/2008, but to be fair, he was facing historically good defenses. Overall, he's been a phenomenal post-season performer throughout his career.

I wouldn't say that the Pistons were historically good. Kobe just struggled, although in his defense he might have burned out due to the rape case and the overall drama of that season. Either way, he played like ****. It didn't help that he looked like he was gunning for Finals MVP. As for his struggles against the Celtics, I give him a free pass, sort of. While he played below his ability, others struggled against the Celtics too. LeBron James, considered to be the best (or second best) player in the NBA had trouble with Boston's defense too. So while Kobe played mediocre basketball (at least below his standards), it's not like the other NBA stars were lighting them up.

[Anaximandro1]

And yet Jordan/Bird/Duncan etc have all had poor Finals performances. :lol

Where does kobe belong?

Finals/Career Averages


6 NBA Finals MVP's



Jordan 33.6 ppg(48.1%),6.0 rpg,6.0 apg


3 NBA Finals MVP's



Magic 19.4 ppg(51.4%),7.9 rpg,11.7 apg

Duncan 22.7 ppg(47.2%),14.4 rpg,3.4 apg,3.0 bpg

Shaq 28.8 ppg (60.2%),13.1 rpg,3.4 apg,2.1 bpg


2 NBA Finals MVP's



Abdul-Jabbar 23.5 ppg (52.3%),9.0 rpg,3.2 apg,2.0 bpg

Bird 22.9 ppg (45.8%),11.6 rpg,6.0 apg

Olajuwon 27.5 ppg (48.8 %),10.6 rpg,3.4 apg,3.2 bpg

Willis Reed 20.0 ppg(48.7 %),9.9 rpg,2.7 apg


1 NBA Finals MVP



Kobe 24.6 ppg(41.4%),5.2 rpg,5.3 apg

Tony Parker 16.4 ppg(46.6%),3.6 apg


So far Kobe is the NBA's 'Worst' Best Player :lol