MJ thinks he can beat D-Wade RIGHT NOW and average 50 in this era in his prime.

[lbj23clutch]

BY MICHAEL WALLACE
MWALLACE@MIAMIHERALD.COM
IS DWYANE WADE CAPABLE OF FOLLOWING IN MICHAEL JORDAN'S SHOES AS `AIR' APPARENT?

As they posed side by side for a promotional photo shoot the other night inside a South Beach mansion, retired NBA legend Michael Jordan quickly turned his back to Dwyane Wade and playfully leaned into the Heat guard.

The 6-6 and still physically fit Jordan, fresh off his Hall of Fame induction, was in town to officially pass a torch of sorts to Wade as his hand-picked successor to wear Jordan's 25th anniversary signature shoe later this season.

But at the moment, Jordan wasn't conceding anything as perhaps the greatest basketball player of all time stood there, sizing up one of the best in today's game.

``I am bigger and taller than he is, right?'' a smiling Jordan said with his back to Wade, who is at least two inches shorter. ``That's post-up action all day, right there. I could probably average 50 points if I played now. Especially if I got all of the calls that [Wade] gets.''

It was one of the few times Wade seemed to be dwarfed - in stature, personality and legend - in any kind of basketball setting. And it didn't bother Wade one bit as he laughed and took Jordan's playful ribbing in stride.

That might be as clear a sign as any that Wade is ready to handle the expectations, pressures and comparisons that come with his gig as the NBA's slashing, dunking and scoring pitchman for the Air Jordan 2010.

``I'm 27 years old, so I've been waiting since I was 2 to wear these shoes,'' said Wade, who soon will test the shoe in practice and will have creative input on potential tweaks and redesigns. ``I had to hold my tongue a long time and couldn't even show my teammates.''

While Wade might be walking in Jordan's signature shoe -- which he could debut as early as the Heat's Christmas Day game at New York and will retail for about $170 -- he's comfortable enough in his own image to realize he doesn't have to follow in every one of Jordan's career footsteps.

So for conspiracy theorists wondering if hooking up with Jordan is another sign that No. 3 might end up in Chicago next summer as a free agent, well, that's bull.

Jordan admitted during last week's select media event that he tapped Wade to wear his shoes because of their similarities. Both are fond of Chicago and consider the Windy City home. Jordan won six NBA titles there. Wade grew up there and attended those championship parades.

Wade currently piles up points, dunks and clutch performances as the Eastern Conference's most dominant shooting guard. Jordan was the standard bearer at the position for parts of two decades in the 1980s and 1990s.

``MJ was a player who could play anywhere on the court and do anything,'' Air Jordan 2010 codesigner Tinker Hatfield said. ``D. Wade is the same kind of player. That was part of our thought process as we came up with a fit.''

Jordan was leaving the NBA just as Wade entered as a draft-lottery pick in 2003 with fellow Nike/Jordan employees Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James.

Wade joked that Jordan ``strategically'' retired before he had to deal with a matchup between the two. Jordan, never one to let a foe, teammate or business partner get an edge, fired back on the next verbal possession.

There are two distinct differences between the two, Jordan cleverly pointed out. ``He thinks he can beat me,'' Jordan said. ``I know I can beat him. He's wearing my shoes. I'm not wearing Dwyane Wade's.''

For nearly four years, Wade had the privilege of wearing his own signature shoe with Converse, recently purchased by Nike. It was a sense of pride, Wade said.

But Wade switched because he wasn't comfortable with the marketing or the shoe's recent designs.

``We can make better use of him,'' Jordan said.

But Wade is giving up his sneaker individuality to join a team that's headed by the legend he grew up idolizing.

``When we were coming out, me LeBron and Carmelo, I was looking for something to separate myself from those guys,'' Wade said.

``It was great for a while. But it's hard work having to carry a brand by yourself.''

Good Stuff.

[GollyImSoGully]

Old news and no he couldn't.

[RaininThrees]

I believe the key to that quote was the "a smiling Jordan said with his back to Wade".

It's pretty clear by that he was kidding around. Gotta read some context there my man, not just the words.

Also, this author is an idiot.


So for conspiracy theorists wondering if hooking up with Jordan is another sign that No. 3 might end up in Chicago next summer as a free agent, well, that's bull.

Wouldn't Jordan want Wade ending up with the team he, you know, has an interest in??

[lbj23clutch]

I believe the key to that quote was the "a smiling Jordan said with his back to Wade".

It's pretty clear by that he was kidding around. Gotta read some context there my man, not just the words.
Obviously he was only joking, I just thought it was a good read that I could share.

[madmax]

Yeah yeah, we've heard it before - old timers were SOOO much better than any young guys, they would literally crap on the league these days:roll: It's getting a bit annoying though...

[lbj23clutch]

But I really think a prime Jordan can average close to 50 in today's era, especially with the rules and treatment that superstars get today from the refs.

[lbj23clutch]

Yeah yeah, we've heard it before - old timers were SOOO much better than any young guys, they would literally crap on the league these days:roll: It's getting a bit annoying though...
It's Michael Jordan were talking about here, you know how competitive that guy can get. Plus he was only half joking. :lol A bit of trash talk here and there is normal for a Michael Jordan.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I agree with the OP. With the rules today, if he wanted to, he'd easily be averaging close to 50ppg.

[GollyImSoGully]

I agree with the OP. With the rules today, if he wanted to, he'd easily be averaging close to 50ppg.

You're just as stupid as the OP.

[Nanners]

sure, and grizzly adams had a beard...

[inclinerator]

no hed probably could average 40 tho

[Rekindled]

MJ is right .

[RaceBannana]

"Especially if I got all of the calls that [Wade] gets.''

:rolleyes:

really funny..... ask Byron Russell...aka "The Pushed"

[hawksdogsbraves]

I believe the key to that quote was the "a smiling Jordan said with his back to Wade".

It's pretty clear by that he was kidding around. Gotta read some context there my man, not just the words.

Also, this author is an idiot.



Wouldn't Jordan want Wade ending up with the team he, you know, has an interest in??


Come on D-Wade isn't going to play for the bobcats :roll:

[Andrei89]

*** MJ and hi crap talks

He is just jealous he is getting old and soon he won't be able to make a simple layup

Dwyane should tell him to take his old ass and GTFO

[GollyImSoGully]

. I always tease Michael [Jordan], if he played today, he'd average 50."

Phil was joking. I'm guessing you're a young kid who heard stories of MJ rather than watching him and thinking he's some sort of invincible superhero. MJ could NOT average 50 ppg this eara. I can see him average close to 38-40 ppg but 50? Do you know how hard it is to drop 50 points, let alone to average that consistently for 82 games? You guys are giving way too much credit to his era and way too little to this one. Phil has also said Kobe was the most skilled, hardworking, talented player he's ever coached yet you guys refuse to accept that. Phil says a lot of things that makes you scratch your head.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You're just as stupid as the OP.

And you're addicted to a basketball forum. Get off Kobe's shlong lame. It's definitely plausible to see Jordan score 50 points. I am in no way saying it would happen, because he isn't a chucker, but if he wanted to, realistically it's happening.

[Harison]

He said jokingly, but knowing Jordan I'm pretty sure deep down he BELIEVES he could average 50 PPG, and not like I disagree much, 40-45 PPG is well within reach with current rules. Other than that, good old trashtalking by Mr. MJ :cheers:

[lbj23clutch]

Phil was joking. I'm guessing you're a young kid who heard stories of MJ rather than watching him and thinking he's some sort of invincible superhero. MJ could NOT average 50 ppg this eara. I can see him average close to 38-40 ppg but 50? Do you know how hard it is to drop 50 points, let alone to average that consistently for 82 games? You guys are giving way too much credit to his era and way too little to this one. Phil has also said Kobe was the most skilled, hardworking, talented player he's ever coached yet you guys refuse to accept that. Phil says a lot of things that makes you scratch your head.
LMAO Phil was not joking if so, then I guess, Joe Dumars, Scottie Pippen, Larry Brown, Clyde Drexler, and Rick barry were all joking. :confusedshrug:




I'm not saying it's guranteed he'll be able to score 50 a game in this era during his prime, Im saying he would probably be close to averaging that amount and as guys like Phil or Larry Brown said, it isn't as far fetched as you think.




In my opinion he would average around 40-42 PPG, which is pretty close to 50.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LMAO Phil was not joking if so, then I guess, Joe Dumars, Scottie Pippen, Larry Brown, Clyde Drexler, and Rick barry were all joking. :confusedshrug:

I'm not saying it's guranteed he'll be able to score 50 a game in this era during his prime, Im saying he would probably be close to averaging that amount and as guys like Phil or Larry Brown said, it isn't as far fetched as you think.

Clown has created over a handful of screen names and all of them were banned. That idiot is for kicks and giggles, nothing more :oldlol:

[RaceBannana]

And you're addicted to a basketball forum. Get off Kobe's shlong lame. It's definitely plausible to see Jordan score 50 points. I am in no way saying it would happen, because he isn't a chucker, but if he wanted to, realistically it's happening.

and the madness continues......

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

and the madness continues......

I agree, averaging 30ppg and shooting 50% in a Bulls uniform is madness.

[lbj23clutch]

*** MJ and hi crap talks

He is just jealous he is getting old and soon he won't be able to make a simple layup

Dwyane should tell him to take his old ass and GTFO
LMAO calm down, MJ and Wade were just having a little fun, they are good friends, and as MJ said he brought in Wade to the Jordan brand because he thought Wade's playing style reminded him of himself.

[Brunch@Five]

MJ basically was LeBron with Kobe's jumper. He certainly could easily top Kobe's 35.4 ppg

[guy]

I doubt Jordan could average 50 ppg. You guys realize that means he would average 20+ more then everyone else right? IMO he'd be the best scorer today, but he wouldn't be THAT MUCH better then Melo, Lebron, Kobe, etc. Like someone else said, he could probably average 38-40, but 50? Lets say Jordan shot 30 shots per game at 55% and made 1 three-point per game, and shot 13 FTs per game at 85%, and he'd be at 45 ppg. And those are best case scenarios dependent on situations that would call for that i.e. he probably wouldn't shoot that much playing on the Nuggets, Lakers, Cavs, etc.

People don't seem to realize that when Wilt did what he did, he averaged 40 shots per game and 17 FTs per game. Prime Jordan probably wouldn't need that many shots and FTs since Wilt only did it on 51% and was a bad FT shooter but he'd still need a lot more, and in this era its unrealistic.

[ZOMG]

Jordan got damn near every call back when he played. Refs also ignored his constant traveling violations, so much so that he was able to base some of his most well-known moves on them.

Yet people make it sound like he was assaulted with crowbars every time he went to the basket. Ridiculous.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Young Jordan('87-'89) would average atleast 13 FTA a game, and yes, he probably would average over 40 a game, not 50, though. Not unless he literally tried to do it at the expense of winning.

During Jordan's peak as an overall player('90-'93), he could have still done it, but not on most of those teams. Perhaps in 1990 he'd average 36 or so ppg rather than the 33.6 ppg he averaged. But by that point Jordan mixed up his game a lot more, it wasn't as much of just attacking the basket or pulling up for mid-range jumpers. He went down in the post, developed 3 point range, became even more lethal with head fakes and ball fakes.

Up through the first 3peat, Jordan COULD have averaged 40 ppg in today's era on a decent team(45 or so wins). The only situations where I'd bet he would have done it though would be in a situation like the one he was in during the 1986-87 season, '87-'88 and maybe '88-'89(if he chose to focus on scoring rather than triple doubles).

50 is an exaggeration, 40 is not. Hell, he was less than 3 ppg shy of averaging 40 ppg one season and his offensive game wasn't anywhere near fully developed, nor was his body.

[Bigsmoke]

yea ok MJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNGTN_s4l78

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I doubt Jordan could average 50 ppg. You guys realize that means he would average 20+ more then everyone else right? IMO he'd be the best scorer today, but he wouldn't be THAT MUCH better then Melo, Lebron, Kobe, etc. Like someone else said, he could probably average 38-40, but 50? Lets say Jordan shot 30 shots per game at 55% and made 1 three-point per game, and shot 13 FTs per game at 85%, and he'd be at 42 ppg. And those are best case scenarios.

People don't seem to realize that when Wilt did what he did, he averaged 40 shots per game and 17 FTs per game.

I agree with this. Like I said, if Jordan really wanted to go out there and chuck 30-40 attempts per game, then yes, he could do it. That's not team ball and I seriously doubt any coach would have that. It isn't a recipe for success, especially in the post season. 40ppg is without question possible.

[madmax]

Jordan got damn near every call back when he played. Refs also ignored his constant traveling violations, so much so that he was able to base some of his most well-known moves on them.

Yet people make it sound like he was assaulted with crowbars every time he went to the basket. Ridiculous.

Preach the truth brother:rockon: :rockon: I remember when Jordan and his Bulls played McDonalds tourney in Europe, and His Airness was called for steps on his first possession:roll: Of course NBA refs wouldn't dare to do that, or would they?

[RaceBannana]

I agree, averaging 30ppg and shooting 50% in a Bulls uniform is madness.

cmon bud, thats not what you said.... you said jordan isn

[ShaqAttack3234]

yea ok MJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNGTN_s4l78

Did you even watch that game? Jordan and Kobe didn't even really guard eachother. Kobe was usually guarded by Stackhouse or Bryon Russell. He didn't really guard Jordan either.

[branslowski]

1. MJ needs to stfu about "getting calls"....Dude could take 8 steps without being called for travel.

2. Only blind MJ stans would beleive that he could avg 50ppg in this era...When his career high is 37ppg in an upper tempo era....So how the f*ck would he avg 50ppg in this era? Less possesions, so he would have to take more than half of his teams shots, and score about 50 pts ever f*ckin night...I swear, some ppl don't f*ckin think....When I first heard someone say he could avg 40, I said "Idk, but it's possible"....But now stans have taken it to another level....Cough, cough, Bruce Blitz and his useless flunkies.

[GOBB]

:oldlol: @thinkin meant it in the literal sense. People pulling out loose leaf, calculators and all figuring out stats and the possibility. What anyone should have got from MJ is if you thought he was a beast during his days? In todays game he would surpass that with how favorably the game is called for the offensive player. Why you guys cant read into his quote like that instead of trying to disprove him so much is beyond me. He said "I probably would...", doesnt mean "I without a shadow of doubt believe I could avg 50ppg today".

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

[QUOTE=RaceBannana]cmon bud, thats not what you said.... you said jordan isn

[branslowski]

:oldlol: @thinkin meant it in the literal sense. People pulling out loose leaf, calculators and all figuring out stats and the possibility. What anyone should have got from MJ is if you thought he was a beast during his days? In todays game he would surpass that with how favorably the game is called for the offensive player. Why you guys cant read into his quote like that instead of trying to disprove him so much is beyond me. He said "I probably would...", doesnt mean "I without a shadow of doubt believe I could avg 50ppg today".

No, but he has fans who beleive this sh!t.

[triangleoffense]

:oldlol: @thinkin meant it in the literal sense. People pulling out loose leaf, calculators and all figuring out stats and the possibility. What anyone should have got from MJ is if you thought he was a beast during his days? In todays game he would surpass that with how favorably the game is called for the offensive player. Why you guys cant read into his quote like that instead of trying to disprove him so much is beyond me. He said "I probably would...", doesnt mean "I without a shadow of doubt believe I could avg 50ppg today".

rofl retard monkey with aids.

[ZOMG]

What anyone should have got from MJ is if you thought he was a beast during his days? In todays game he would surpass that with how favorably the game is called for the offensive player.

Jordan played in an era when defenders were generally given the benefit of the doubt, but HE always enjoyed the kind of treatment given to offensive players today. LMAO at anyone who thinks MJ was just another player.

[Dresta]

LMAO Phil was not joking if so, then I guess, Joe Dumars, Scottie Pippen, Larry Brown, Clyde Drexler, and Rick barry were all joking. :confusedshrug:




I'm not saying it's guranteed he'll be able to score 50 a game in this era during his prime, Im saying he would probably be close to averaging that amount and as guys like Phil or Larry Brown said, it isn't as far fetched as you think.




In my opinion he would average around 40-42 PPG, which is pretty close to 50.
Yeah because those guys have no incentive to claim it'd be far easier to score now days. Defense had the most impact in the 2003/4 season when none of those guys still played.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan played in an era when defenders were generally given the benefit of the doubt, but HE always enjoyed the kind of treatment given to offensive players today. LMAO at anyone who thinks MJ was just another player.

lol @ anyone who thinks Jordan got calls as much as players today. :oldlol: During his prime ('90-'93) Jordan averaged like 7.6 FTA iirc. Compare that to 10+ per game for most star players since 2006.

[triangleoffense]

Jordan played in an era when defenders were generally given the benefit of the doubt, but HE always enjoyed the kind of treatment given to offensive players today. LMAO at anyone who thinks MJ was just another player.

don't worry about gobb he is the resident retard.

[GOBB]

Jordan played in an era when defenders were generally given the benefit of the doubt, but HE always enjoyed the kind of treatment given to offensive players today. LMAO at anyone who thinks MJ was just another player.

MJ wasnt just another player. Stars got thier xtra call, no call. I fail to see your point when comparing the game in which MJ played/how he was called vs Wade and todays game. Really no comparison. The defensive player has been put at a disadvantage. The game has changed to favor and give the offensive player more leeway. Hence why MJ responded and said what he did about todays game. Fans get so butt hurt and want to argue, go against what he said in spite. Its like you dont want to agree with dude.

People highlight the "push off" on Russell which is not a call no ref makes. And it wasnt blatant enough in real life time for someone to call. Fans like letting players decide a game and not the whistle. Thats a fact, all one needs to do is sit in on playoff game series where whistles are blown late in the 4th. Yet all of a sudden u want MJ called for a pushoff? Of course you dont but you will say that in spite.

Tell me in playoff series the phantom calls at the end of a game MJ got. You cant. You'll just reply "LOL at thinkin MJ didnt ever travel in his career and it wasnt called". Lets get back to the point with the way the game is called today and how its pro offense? MJ feels he would benefit from that greatly as he did when he played. Anyone who has watched the game will agree to that. Others who disagree have weak arguments.

And Wade isnt the only one who benefits from todays game either.

[GollyImSoGully]

lmao @ LBJ23clutch saying 42 ppg is close to 50 ppg. That's like saying 12 ppg is close to 20. Miss me with that.

[catch24]

38-40ppg would be realistic. 50ppg is a stretch, I don't believe he'd shoot that much anyway.

I love how one of the admins deleted my Kobe 2006 thread. That's great ISH, clearly I was trolling :rolleyes:

[abuC]

lol @ anyone who thinks Jordan got calls as much as players today. :oldlol: During his prime ('90-'93) Jordan averaged like 7.6 FTA iirc. Compare that to 10+ per game for most star players since 2006.


He took 12 freethrows a game and 28 shots game in 87, he didn't score 50ppg then @ a faster pace so it's a joke to think he could come close to 50.

[NuggetsFan]

I have Jordan at the GOAT but there's no way he's averaging 50 points a game playing today. He'd score a ton and probably get to the line more .. but 50 points is a stretch.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It would be wonderful for the day to come along when a player could jokingly talk a little **** without half of ISH having a heart attack.

50? No. 40s would have been in reach though...he did actually hit 37 in one year.

Some of you should not be allowed to engage bball chat without adult supervision.

[GOBB]

It would be wonderful for the day to come along when a player could jokingly talk a little **** without half of ISH having a heart attack.

50? No. 40s would have been in reach though...he did actually hit 37 in one year.

Some of you should not be allowed to engage bball chat without adult supervision.

:roll:

[Micku]

I extremely doubt that he could beat Wade one on one nowadays.

In his prime, I doubt he could average 50 pts, but who knows. Jordan was crazy good back then, wasn't he?

[D.J.]

Today's rules favor swingmen and benefit offensive players. Michael Jordan in his prime was unstoppable. He could attack the hoop when he wanted and that was with handchecking at the perimeter. Today, with much less contact, he would either dunk on someone or go to the foul line. In the late 1980's, he was putting up around 35 a night. If he was in his prime today, he puts up nothing under 40 and pushing 50 is not out of reach.

[lbj23clutch]

lol @ anyone who thinks Jordan got calls as much as players today. :oldlol: During his prime ('90-'93) Jordan averaged like 7.6 FTA iirc. Compare that to 10+ per game for most star players since 2006.
LMAO I agree, some people must be f*cking blind to see how much superstar treatment guys like D-Wade or Bron gets, hell even Kevin Martin averaged close to 11 FT's in one season. So your teling me MJ who is faster, quicker, and better at penetrating to the rim then Lebron or Wade, can't get to the line more then 10 FT's a game like alot of these perimete players today. MJ would easily average around 13-15 FT's a game.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Granted he is on a bad team, I say 35-38 at the very most per night.

The logical answer is 32-33 ppg. I doubt anyone can average 50.

[madmax]

Anyone who says that Jordan could EASILY come close to averaging 50 ppg today is either a) blind homer; or b) helpless troll:hammerhead:

[D.J.]

Anyone who says that Jordan could EASILY come close to averaging 50 ppg today is either a) blind homer; or b) helpless troll:hammerhead:


Jordan maxed out at 37 in an era where there was constant handchecking and the rules didn't favor slashers.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Jordan got damn near every call back when he played. Refs also ignored his constant traveling violations, so much so that he was able to base some of his most well-known moves on them.

Yet people make it sound like he was assaulted with crowbars every time he went to the basket. Ridiculous.
Yes relative to era. When evaluating wings, a superstar call back then is damn near a mandatory call in recent years.

[Lebron23]

Jordan maxed out at 37 in an era where there was constant handchecking and the rules didn't favor slashers.


1980's = Fast Paced Era.

Latrell Sprewell and Grant Hill were better than Kiki Vandeweghe, but they never averaged over 27 ppg in the 1990's.

[D.J.]

1980's = Fast Paced Era.

Latrell Sprewell and Grant Hill were better than Kiki Vandeweghe, but they never averaged over 27 ppg in the 1990's.


Handchecking still existed and if you attacked the hoop on Laimbeer, Rodman, Ewing, or Oakley, you got knocked on your ass. Another huge difference is the players from the 80's could shoot. Today, even with Jordan being able to attack the hoop with no repercussions, he could shoot much better than a lot of today's players.

[OneMoreSucka]

lmao @ LBJ23clutch saying 42 ppg is close to 50 ppg. That's like saying 12 ppg is close to 20. Miss me with that.
It's actually more like saying 17 is close to 20.

[madmax]

Jordan maxed out at 37 in an era where there was constant handchecking and the rules didn't favor slashers.

we get it - handchecking ( like there were enough physical defenders to slow him down back then) and rough, physical play ( you make it sound like every team back in the 80's was Detroit Pistons clone). Newsflash folks - it was fast paced league with plenty of iso's and opportunities to score, much more than in today's league...

[D.J.]

we get it - handchecking ( like there were enough physical defenders to slow him down back then) and rough, physical play ( you make it sound like every team back in the 80's was Detroit Pistons clone). Newsflash folks - it was fast paced league with plenty of iso's and opportunities to score, much more than in today's league...


Plus players back then could shoot, even the big men. That's why there were more opportunities.

[lbj23clutch]

we get it - handchecking ( like there were enough physical defenders to slow him down back then) and rough, physical play ( you make it sound like every team back in the 80's was Detroit Pistons clone). Newsflash folks - it was fast paced league with plenty of iso's and opportunities to score, much more than in today's league...
I stopped reading there. I see alot of idiots are actually following KB42PAH's stupid MYTHS. How f*cking Pathetic.

[D.J.]

I stopped reading there. I see alot of idiots are actually following KB42PAH's stupid MYTHS. How f*cking Pathetic.


Problem is many of these kids saw no basketball prior to 1999. I have seen very few posters here that saw the NBA live 20+ years ago.

[cotdt]

MJ could do 50 ppg, but it'll be at the expense of winning.

[Harison]

Granted he is on a bad team, I say 35-38 at the very most per night.

The logical answer is 32-33 ppg. I doubt anyone can average 50.
Even Kobe averaged 37 PPG, dont you think MJ could reach even THAT when he averaged 37 PPG in not so favorable era? Thats why many coaches and HOF players are quoted Jordan could average 40-50 PPG today (depends whom you ask). Anything below 40 PPG means a) MJ is on stacked team and has limited touches or b) someone is undervaluating MJ.

Others saying anything about MJ and pace in '80, forgot to look up actual pace Jordan was playing :oldlol: Check it, and you'll be surprised, if you are lazy - he was playing on SLOW team, SLOW pace when he averaged 37 PPG, so pace is non factor when we compare to current NBA.

[D.J.]

MJ could do 50 ppg, but it'll be at the expense of winning.


Back when Jordan was putting up 37 a night, the Bulls were a first round exit team. When Pippen developed and Jordan could get away with 30-31 a night, they started to win titles. In this era, I could see 40-45 for Jordan, but his team would be very similar to the 2005-2007 Lakers.

[ukplayer4]

mj in his prime in todays game would easily be up and over 45ppg. nobody could stop him getting to the basket at will and that was with handchecking, in todays game he would be finishing at the basket or going to the ft line every time he touched the ball....

[Abraham Lincoln]

Even Kobe averaged 37 PPG, dont you think MJ could reach even THAT when he averaged 37 PPG in not so favorable era? Thats why many coaches and HOF players are quoted Jordan could average 40-50 PPG today (depends whom you ask). Anything below 40 PPG means a) MJ is on stacked team and has limited touches or b) someone is undervaluating MJ.

Others saying anything about MJ and pace in '80, forgot to look up actual pace Jordan was playing :oldlol: Check it, and you'll be surprised, if you are lazy - he was playing on SLOW team, SLOW pace when he averaged 37 PPG, so pace is non factor when we compare to current NBA.I just don't think he'd shoot as much nor play sufficient minutes. The prediction was based on the idea that you insert the early 90's Bulls in place of today's Bulls in the league. They'd blow teams out. Scottie would probably see his FT attempts rise as well. Pax & B.J could get al the open looks they wanted. And Kobe averaged 35 that season, not 37.

[GollyImSoGully]

It's actually more like saying 17 is close to 20.

Sure it is bud.

[Harison]

I just don't think he'd shoot as much nor play sufficient minutes. The prediction was based on the idea that you insert the early 90's Bulls in place of today's Bulls in the league. They'd blow teams out. Scottie would probably see his FT attempts rise as well. Pax & B.J could get al the open looks they wanted. And Kobe averaged 35 that season, not 37.
He would shoot depending on what team he is, on bad team of course he would. Sufficient minutes? What has changed in NBA yesterday? Lebron is currently averaging ~39 mins, plenty of players had ~40 mins seasons recent years.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Blowouts? Perhaps I am thinking the wrong way. I just really don't place much emphasis on statistical averages. The bottomline is that he would be the top player in basketball today averaging 60 points or 16 points. Same for any other alltime great like Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Larry, Magic, Oscar, and so on.

[nbastatus]

Cocky old *****!

[Stoney]

If Kobe could average 43 ppg for a month, sure as hell MJ could average 40 ppg for a season, but agree with those who say that 50 is a stretch, it would require him to take like 35 shots a game and get like 15 free throws, which has not happenend for any player since Chamberlain.

[liljohnnywall]

mj in his prime in todays game would easily be up and over 45ppg. nobody could stop him getting to the basket at will and that was with handchecking, in todays game he would be finishing at the basket or going to the ft line every time he touched the ball....

People forget Kobe Bryant averaged 43 points for an entire month in this weak era. Prime Jordan if he wanted to if he was in ball hog mode like Kobe was in 05-06 could averaged anywhere from 45-52 points a month in his prime in this era if he was in ball hog mode.

[RaceBannana]

Jordan shot 900+ free throws in a single season..... neither Kobe, Lebron or Wade have shot as many....

sure he wasn

[LA_Showtime]

Seems to me like Michael Jordan is getting cockier, dumber, and more self-centered as he grows older. 50 per game? No way.

[Timmy D for MVP]

[QUOTE=RaceBannana]Jordan shot 900+ free throws in a single season..... neither Kobe, Lebron or Wade have shot as many....

sure he wasn

[OldSchoolBBall]

He took 12 freethrows a game and 28 shots game in 87, he didn't score 50ppg then @ a faster pace so it's a joke to think he could come close to 50.

I'm not one of the people claiming a 50 ppg average. I meant in general. '90-'93 Jordan averaged < 8 FTA/gm. He'd be getting 10-11 FTA nowadays, so instead of averaging 31-33 ppg, he'd be at 33-35 ppg. In his highest scoring years I see MJ averaging 36-38 ppg. Nothing crazy like 50. Even 40 is a stretch if we're assuming good efficiency.

[plowking]

I'm not one of the people claiming a 50 ppg average. I meant in general. '90-'93 Jordan averaged < 8 FTA/gm. He'd be getting 10-11 FTA nowadays, so instead of averaging 31-33 ppg, he'd be at 33-35 ppg. In his highest scoring years I see MJ averaging 36-38 ppg. Nothing crazy like 50. Even 40 is a stretch if we're assuming good efficiency.

Thank you. People act as if he could be 20ppg better than everyone else.

Drexler was the 2nd best SG when Jordan was around and both Wade and Kobe are better than him, and Drex was dropping 25-27ppg back then.

[Simple Jack]

Thank you. People act as if he could be 20ppg better than everyone else.

Drexler was the 2nd best SG when Jordan was around and both Wade and Kobe are better than him, and Drex was dropping 25-27ppg back then.


It's not that big of a stretch to think he could average 40....

[plowking]

It's not that big of a stretch to think he could average 40....

The year he avgd 37, he was on a 40 win team, exerting probably the most energy due to the scoring load of any of his seasons. So possibly 40, though I don't think so.

[HiphopRelated]

That's exactly the point. He shot that many in a league whose rules were not as soft as today's therefore he would, with the same mentality, shoot evern more.

50 is a ridiculous number even MJ knows that. I think he used it as a nice rounded off number with impact, but really he'd probably average 42-45 points.
lol

no, the point is Jordan is the grandfather of these "star calls"

There aren't any borderline calls that didn't go MJ's way


Scoring on Tayshaun Prince and Artest is harder than Craig Ehlo. These ridiculous wingspan sfs are far harder to deal with than what Jordan faced.

Was Jordan's era physical? yes, but he still got up to shoot fts afterward.

[EricForman]

I believe the key to that quote was the "a smiling Jordan said with his back to Wade".

It's pretty clear by that he was kidding around. Gotta read some context there my man, not just the words.

Also, this author is an idiot.
?

this.

people cant seem to understand hyperbole or sarcasm on ish.

[EricForman]

i can't believe there are angry responses calling Jordan accusing Jordan of jealousy or arrogance.

the random hate on ISH is becoming sickening. Jordan was obviously cracking jokes at Wade.

And BTW, prime Jordan probably wouldn't average 50 but he could average 42-45.

[GollyImSoGully]

And BTW, prime Jordan probably wouldn't average 50 but he could average 42-45.

BS. 37-40 and 40 being a reach.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Drexler was the 2nd best SG when Jordan was around and both Wade and Kobe are better than him, and Drex was dropping 25-27ppg back then.
Jordan will always be the GOAT, until proven otherwise by a player

But this is absolutely true. And shows how weak the league was at his position then when Jordan was at his peak.

Have any of you watched Drexler? Yuck. He doesn't come close to the amount of basketball skill seen in alot of today's elite wingmen and he gets touted regularly as being one of the best SGs of all-time.

In my time I've seen many players maybe not for the duration of their career due to injury, loss of interest or what have you ... but I've seen alot of SGs I'd consider better players than Clyde "I look down while dribbling / can't go left as a pro ball player" Drexler.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The year he avgd 37, he was on a 40 win team, exerting probably the most energy due to the scoring load of any of his seasons. So possibly 40, though I don't think so.

Yeah, but he was also nowhere near the scorer in 1987 that he was in '88-'91. MJ in 1989 or 1990, if placed in the same exact situation/role as 1987 and with that same "score first" mentality (as opposed to focusing more on the all-around game) easily averages 38+ ppg on 48%+ shooting. Easily. He was a far superior scorer in the ensuing years.

[EricForman]

BS. 37-40 and 40 being a reach.


he averaged 37 in the toughest era in the league. watch clips of the pistons/bulls series. pistons got away with things that no one could do to kobe today.

really. kobe bryant averaged 35 just a few years ago and hes a 90% as good version as Jordan. you dont think jordan could get an extra 5 points?

jesus people here are ridiculous. the man averaged 37 before and people are saying "he'd average 38 at most today".

go check out ray allen, iverson, paul pierce's stats. all those guys had a SIGNIFICANT stat boost after 2005 when Stern changed the rules to help out the guards. That's proof enough the game is easier for perimeter players today. Ray Allen never dropped 50 in his first NINE years in the league and then does it multiple times after 2005. He was avearging low 20s throughout his prime and then suddenly jumps to 25 and up after 2005. Iverson dipped to 27 a game and then suddenly was dropping 33 and 8? Michael Redd goes for 57 when guys like Grant Hill and Penny couldnt crack 50?

You really dont think Jordan could add an extra 3-5 points to his 37 average?

Please.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Yeah, but he was also nowhere near the scorer in 1987 that he was in '88-'91. MJ in 1989 or 1990, if placed in the same exact situation/role as 1987 and with that same "score first" mentality (as opposed to focusing more on the all-around game) easily averages 38+ ppg on 48%+ shooting. Easily. He was a far superior scorer in the ensuing years.
Definetely.

That's why I'm saying people who didn't watch him and base it off stats without understanding through context the actual caliber of player he was.

No he wasn't putting up 37 ppg, 35 ppg anymore but he was easily a better scorer / ball player.

Jordan in 1993 was a better scorer than the player he was in his first few years averaging mid to late 30's in the ppg column.

[RapsFan]

Unlike many on this forum, I am not going to spout off about older players like Wilt, Oscar etc that I never saw play outside of a few clips. I have no idea what they would do today.

However, I watched basically all of Jordan's career, and therefore I have seen all of the current group of NBA player's careers. I think for sure Jordan could average close to 50 per game with the rules as they are today to benefit guard play and increase scoring. He wouldn't average 50, because I doubt there would be a coach that would allow it, but he'd be putting up monster numbers.

[GollyImSoGully]

he averaged 37 in the toughest era in the league.

Era with the weakest perimeter players.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Era with the weakest perimeter players.
Yeah ...

[Fatal9]

:roll: at some of the posts in this thread. I had no idea this old era sh*t had gotten this far out of hand.

[Doo Doo_Brown]

People who keep saying that he could "probably" score 38 in todays game haven't really seen him play. The way Jordan scored was effortless. He was basically unstoppable and pretty much the only times he had bad games was when the opposing teams got very physical with him.

I could realistically see a prime Jordan scoring 70+ points multiple times in a season against some of the teams in todays NBA.

[GollyImSoGully]

I could realistically see a prime Jordan scoring 70+ points multiple times in a season against some of the teams in todays NBA.

I love how everyone is under the impression that this era is so weak that someone can score 70 multiple times. GTFO with that.

[Doo Doo_Brown]

I love how everyone is under the impression that this era is so weak that someone can score 70 multiple times. GTFO with that.

LOL says the guy who doesnt even know basic math.

[Fatal9]

Reggie Miller in early 90s used to shoot the same amount of FTs as prime Jordan. That would never happen in Jordan's era though considering MJ is so much quicker, more athletic, aggressive and better at getting to the basket, right :rolleyes:. Even Jim Jackson in '95 shot more FTs than Jordan did in some years of his prime. You can't use the logic that just because player A is shooting X amount of FTs now, Jordan would average even more, because you can't even establish that type of consistency in Jordan's own era.

But yes, Kobe and Lebron would be scrubs in an era when Purvis Short, Kiki V., Mark Aguirre were dropping 30 ppg on crazy efficiency.

[Fatal9]

I could realistically see a prime Jordan scoring 70+ points multiple times in a season against some of the teams in todays NBA.
Right :oldlol:

[HighFlyer23]

half of u and jordan r just fkin retards

[Fatal9]

So Jordan shot 12 FTs in his 37 ppg season (which was in 1987, help defense no where as good as today, and the average individual defender is more athletic now)....am I supposed to believe he would shoot 15 a game nowadays? Fcking Ridiculous.

:oldlol: at claims Jordan would hit 55% of shots at 30 FGA/game. Wow.

[plowking]

he averaged 37 in the toughest era in the league. watch clips of the pistons/bulls series. pistons got away with things that no one could do to kobe today.

really. kobe bryant averaged 35 just a few years ago and hes a 90% as good version as Jordan. you dont think jordan could get an extra 5 points?

jesus people here are ridiculous. the man averaged 37 before and people are saying "he'd average 38 at most today".

go check out ray allen, iverson, paul pierce's stats. all those guys had a SIGNIFICANT stat boost after 2005 when Stern changed the rules to help out the guards. That's proof enough the game is easier for perimeter players today. Ray Allen never dropped 50 in his first NINE years in the league and then does it multiple times after 2005. He was avearging low 20s throughout his prime and then suddenly jumps to 25 and up after 2005. Iverson dipped to 27 a game and then suddenly was dropping 33 and 8? Michael Redd goes for 57 when guys like Grant Hill and Penny couldnt crack 50?

You really dont think Jordan could add an extra 3-5 points to his 37 average?

Please.

Rules haven't been put in place that help swingmen, rather put the ball in their hands more, since the key is more crowded and harder for big men to work in there.

[1987_Lakers]

Wow, people actually think MJ would average 50 PPG in this era?

[Cangri]

So Jordan shot 12 FTs in his 37 ppg season (which was in 1987, help defense no where as good as today, and the average individual defender is more athletic now)....am I supposed to believe he would shoot 15 a game nowadays? Fcking Ridiculous.

:oldlol: at claims Jordan would hit 55% of shots at 30 FGA/game. Wow.
Defence was much more physical than it is today + handchecking.

[plowking]

Defence was much more physical than it is today + handchecking.

People act as if this handcheck was some giant wall players had to work around. A hand check is exactly what it says it is, a "check". Helps track the player. You could not interfere with the players movement or push on it. Like today, it is a foul. Was back then, is now.

[Doo Doo_Brown]

Wow, people actually think MJ would average 50 PPG in this era?

39 y/o Jordan scored 20ppg against players from this era. He'd avg 40s if he was in his prime.

[EricForman]

Wow, people actually think MJ would average 50 PPG in this era?


i think only one or two guys. the rest of us are arguing MJ would do 38-42 with some decent opinions/facts backing our statement. but the usual haters (like that idiot Fatal9) are pretending to not see that and keep holding onto the 50 point part.

figures.

[bdreason]

MJ could average close to 40 PPG. Maybe 38ish.


Wade would kill MJ right now 1 v 1 though. Wade knows that. MJ knows that.

[Fatal9]

People act as if this handcheck was some giant wall players had to work around. A hand check is exactly what it says it is, a "check". Helps track the player. You could not interfere with the players movement or push on it. Like today, it is a foul. Was back then, is now.
It's funny because if your handcheck in any way obstructed the player from getting to the basket (ie. too physical, nearing a push) you would instantly be whistled for a foul. The handcheck was more physical in the 80s than 90s (they put in rules iirc). But still, to be honesst I'm not even sure the 80s were even more physical than today. You see the same number of ridiculous calls (players b*tched and flopped less often though) back then as now. The posters making these wild allegations wouldn't know though, they've seen a couple of selected youtube clips and doubt many have even sat through a single average 80s regular season game. 60+ FTA games were the average back then (look it up). For all the moaning about free throw attempts after 2005, teams on average shot less than 1 extra FT the following year.

[Timmy D for MVP]

lol

no, the point is Jordan is the grandfather of these "star calls"

There aren't any borderline calls that didn't go MJ's way


Scoring on Tayshaun Prince and Artest is harder than Craig Ehlo. These ridiculous wingspan sfs are far harder to deal with than what Jordan faced.

Was Jordan's era physical? yes, but he still got up to shoot fts afterward.

That's all true but the point is that clearly the rules of today's league are far more rewarding to the offensive player now then they were then. So all of that you said, PLUS the extra fouls he'd get due to the rules today means that he could easily average 42-45 points.

[Doo Doo_Brown]

People act as if this handcheck was some giant wall players had to work around. A hand check is exactly what it says it is, a "check". Helps track the player. You could not interfere with the players movement or push on it. Like today, it is a foul. Was back then, is now.

Are you sure about that? From NBA.com:

In 1999, the league eliminated contact by a defender with his hands and forearms both in the backcourt and frontcourt, except on offensive players who caught the ball below the free throw line extended. Defenses were also prohibited from "re-routing" players off the ball. This freed up perimeter players who used screens to get open. Nor were defenders able any more to grab or impede offensive players setting screens. In 2001, the defensive three-second rule eliminated defenders camping out in the lane away from their offensive man to help.

The rules changes did what they were supposed to do -- open up the game. Scoring average has increased from an average 95.6 points per game in the 1997-98 season to this year's 100 per game. Overall field goal percentage has increased from 45.0 percent in '97-'98 to 45.9 percent this season. Three-point percentage has gone up, from .346 11 years ago to .367 this season. And fouls have gone down, from a league average of 1,837 fouls in 1997 to 1,726 this season. The statistical-based Basketball Prospectus wrote at the beginning of this season that the game's pace -- defined as possessions per game -- had increased from its nadir during the lockout season of 1999 (around 88 possessions per game) to around 91 per game in the 2007-08 season.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/04/22/aldridge.defenses/

[EricForman]

Are you sure about that? From NBA.com:

In 1999, the league eliminated contact by a defender with his hands and forearms both in the backcourt and frontcourt, except on offensive players who caught the ball below the free throw line extended. Defenses were also prohibited from "re-routing" players off the ball. This freed up perimeter players who used screens to get open. Nor were defenders able any more to grab or impede offensive players setting screens. In 2001, the defensive three-second rule eliminated defenders camping out in the lane away from their offensive man to help.

The rules changes did what they were supposed to do -- open up the game. Scoring average has increased from an average 95.6 points per game in the 1997-98 season to this year's 100 per game. Overall field goal percentage has increased from 45.0 percent in '97-'98 to 45.9 percent this season. Three-point percentage has gone up, from .346 11 years ago to .367 this season. And fouls have gone down, from a league average of 1,837 fouls in 1997 to 1,726 this season. The statistical-based Basketball Prospectus wrote at the beginning of this season that the game's pace -- defined as possessions per game -- had increased from its nadir during the lockout season of 1999 (around 88 possessions per game) to around 91 per game in the 2007-08 season.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/04/22/aldridge.defenses/


great post. too bad fatal will just ignore this and pretend you never posted.

[Allstar24]

It's amusing to see that some fanboys are actually trying to defend MJ's retarded statement. All hell would break lose if Kobe said something like that :oldlol:

[Indian guy]

All hell would break lose if Kobe said something like that :oldlol:

Actually, not too long ago(06-07, if I'm remembering correctly) Kobe said he could drop 50 anytime.

[Cangri]

great post. too bad fatal will just ignore this and pretend you never posted.
Is he still denying that he's a major Kobe groupie?

[Fatal9]

Yea, lets completely ignore the rules that favored isolation ball and significantly worse team defense than what we have now. From the early 80s when they started to crack down on and clarified the following rules:


a. Weak side defenders may come in the pro lane (16’), but not in the college lane (12’) for more than three seconds.
b. Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player adjacent to paint area).
c. Player without ball may not be double-teamed from weak side.
d. Offensive player above foul line and inside circle must be played by defender inside dotted line.
e. If offensive player is above the top of the circle, defender must come to a position above foul line.
f. Defender on cutter must follow the cutter, switch, or double-team the ball.

These rules were VERY restrictive to team defense. I'm surprised how many of these alleged old school fans can't even realize the value of this.

[Allstar24]

Actually, not too long ago(06-07, if I'm remembering correctly) Kobe said he could drop 50 anytime.
But he didn't say that he could average 50 ppg...even he's not that obnoxious.

[EricForman]

But he didn't say that he could average 50 ppg...even he's not that obnoxious.


i was gonna tell you that jordan was clearly cracking jokes (like guy talk among friends on the court ie: "please imma drop 50 in yo face") BUT i realized that you know this. you're just being a kobe fanboy thus you must hate on Jordan.

keep trying. kobe's about 90% as good as Jordan right now. maybe one day he'll get there :oldlol:

[Fatal9]

I do remember Kobe saying this, and the ensuing sh*tstorm on ISH :oldlol:

"The rules are completely different now,'' said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's. "I've always been able to shoot the ball, but the rules have changed since he played in terms of playing a zone defense. You have to be a jump shooter now because there's no way you can get to the basket -- particularly myself because they just stack guys up. I wish we had the rules they had back in the day where you could isolate guys and you could go to the basket anytime. But now you have to be able to shoot.''

[Indian guy]

But he didn't say that he could average 50 ppg...

Kobe's quote pretty clearly implies that though. Saying you can drop 50 ANYTIME is basically saying you can average that # if you wanted to.

[Fatal9]

FYI, I think peak MJ in the triangle would average something like 32/6/6 on 50-52% nowadays. If he was in a scenario like in '87 (young, on bad teams, shooting nearly 30 times a game), I'd say he averages 36/6/4 on 46-47%. I doubt he would even shoot that much when he was playing his best ball (around ages 26-29), but if he did I could see him putting up 35 ppg on around 50%.

[Fatal9]

still dying after someone said best case scenario for Jordan nowadays is shoot 30 times a game and make 55% of his shots, while also shooting 13 FTA/game...WTF :roll:. How delusional do you have to be to consider that as a possible scenario under any circumstances?

[keep_it_real]

50 points per game for 82 games...:no:

[ProfessorMurder]

sure, and grizzly adams had a beard...

"Grizzly Adams did have a beard."

Made me laugh, great reference.

[Roundball_Rock]

i can't believe there are angry responses calling Jordan accusing Jordan of jealousy or arrogance.

the random hate on ISH is becoming sickening. Jordan was obviously cracking jokes at Wade.

And BTW, prime Jordan probably wouldn't average 50 but he could average 42-45.

:roll:


Michael Redd goes for 57 when guys like Grant Hill and Penny couldnt crack 50?

Um, Hill and Penny were the primary playmakers for their teams. Redd's job was to score and do little else. Hill and Penny were not solely scorers. What a BS comparison. That is like saying comparing Glen Rice to Deron Williams. You can cherry pick players from any decade to make a poor comparison like that. Since you mentioned Penny, though, look at him for a moment. He is a lousy example for your "weak era" argument. Penny dropped 40+ in back-to-back games against the #1 defense in the league in the playoffs. So the era was so tough on Penny that he was able to score 40+ two straight times in the playoffs against the best defense in the league?

Penny and Hill were not as good scorers relative to the league as Redd was, in part due to their roles. If asked to score more they probably could score more than Redd. Certainly Hill could. You acted as if you were comparing two players who were similar to Redd.

Hill vs. his peers: 3rd in scoring in 2000, 10th in 1999 (21.1 ppg)
Penny vs. his peers: Never top 10 in scoring
Redd vs. his peers: 10th, 9th, 5th, 8th (2004-08)

Hill was a 20-21 ppg guy except for 2000 and Penny was a 21-22 ppg player. As I said earlier, they could score more if asked to play a Redd-like role but they weren't. Penny played some SG but he remained the team's best playmaker and Hill was always a "point forward" in Detroit.


I could realistically see a prime Jordan scoring 70+ points multiple times in a season against some of the teams in todays NBA.

:wtf: Do you realize MJ never scored 70 in nearly 1,300 games? He got to 69 once but his next highest was 63. Yet he would score 70+ "multiple times" in one season?


Wow, people actually think MJ would average 50 PPG in this era?

And then they wonder why many people think that while he is one of the three or four greatest players ever and has a case for GOAT he somehow has managed to get overrated. He was a great player but there are hilarious Paul Bunyan myths surrounding him, as has been shown numerous times in this thread. :oldlol:


39 y/o Jordan scored 20ppg against players from this era. He'd avg 40s if he was in his prime

A lot of this is based on most people not realizing how much MJ shot the ball (more than anyone else in history, even though he played much of his career in the slow paced mid-90's!). In 2002 he took as many shots as he did in 1991, 1992, and 1996. He was older but he still took as much of the load as he always did. People act as if MJ was scoring 20+ ppg on 10 shots a game in 2002 (in reality he was #2 in FGA per game behind AI and was #2 in usage). For him to average in the 40's he would need to take around 30 shots a game. Yeah, if you gave him 30 shots each night he could reach 40 ppg but the same could be said about Lebron, who is putting up 30 ppg on only 20 shots a game this year.

[Alhazred]

Assuming his field goal percentage dropped to like 45-48 %, he could probably reach 40 ppg. That's also if he's on a bad team. If it's on a contender, 30-35 ppg with 50% shooting or higher.

[guy]

still dying after someone said best case scenario for Jordan nowadays is shoot 30 times a game and make 55% of his shots, while also shooting 13 FTA/game...WTF :roll:. How delusional do you have to be to consider that as a possible scenario under any circumstances?

LOL yes BEST CASE SCENARIO as in VERY UNLIKELY IT WOULD HAPPEN. I was trying to point out how amazingly difficult it would've been for him to just average 45 ppg, not even 50.

[Roundball_Rock]

Assuming his field goal percentage dropped to like 45-48 %, he could probably reach 40 ppg. That's also if he's on a bad team. If it's on a contender, 30-35 ppg with 50% shooting or higher.

So you can see him taking 2,500 shots over 82 games? That is what 30 FGA a game translates to over a season.

What is with all this "bad team" stuff in this thread? MJ shot the ball 26 times a game on a championship team in 1993. On his non-championship teams he averaged 20, 18, 28, 24, 22, 24, 22, and 19 shots a game (average: 22). On his championship teams he averaged 22, 23, 26, 23, 23, and 23 (average: 23). Yeah, the averages are distorted a bit by Washington but his championship numbers are also distorted since he won half of them when he was past his prime. In 1995 he came back from baseball to a team with a top 10 scorer in the league (Pippen was 8th the year before, 9th or 10th before MJ came back) and STILL took 24 shots a game! To recap: he was "rusty" from missing a year and a half of basketball, joined a team with a top 10 scorer and still took 24 shots a game! To put that into context here are how many shots per game the top 5 in FGA that year took:

Shaq: 20
Mashburn: 20
Malone: 19
Hakeem: 21.5
Richmond: 18

Jordan: 23.8

MJ always "got his." Another reason why he is the "GOAT." :D

[Pharcyde]

So for conspiracy theorists wondering if hooking up with Jordan is another sign that No. 3 might end up in Chicago next summer as a free agent, well, that's bull.

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/dwyane-wade-jordan-480x360.jpg

[Alhazred]

So you can see him taking 2,500 shots over 82 games? That is what 30 FGA a game translates to over a season.

Sure, it's possible. His team would have to be struggling and begging him to take shots, though.


What is with all this "bad team" stuff in this thread? MJ shot the ball 26 times a game on a championship team in 1993. On his non-championship teams he averaged 20, 18, 28, 24, 22, 24, 22, and 19 shots a game (average: 22). On his championship teams he averaged 22, 23, 26, 23, 23, and 23 (average: 23). Yeah, the averages are distorted a bit by Washington but his championship numbers are also distorted since he won half of them when he was past his prime. In 1995 he came back from baseball to a team with a top 10 scorer in the league (Pippen was 8th the year before, 9th or 10th before MJ came back) and STILL took 24 shots a game! To recap: he was "rusty" from missing a year and a half of basketball, joined a team with a top 10 scorer and still took 24 shots a game! To put that into context here are how many shots per game the top 5 in FGA that year took:

Shaq: 20
Mashburn: 20
Malone: 19
Hakeem: 21.5
Richmond: 18

Jordan: 23.8

MJ always "got his." Another reason why he is the "GOAT." :D

Look at how much some guys shoot today despite their field goal percentages reaching as low as 38 %. Assuming Jordan let his fall as low as that, 40 ppg is pretty reachable. It would be impractical, though.

Actually, Jordan reached 37 ppg on 48% field goal percentage back in 87, so is scoring an additional 3 points a game really that unbelievable?

[Dizzle-2k7]

Actually, Jordan reached 37 ppg on 48% field goal percentage back in 87, so is scoring an additional 3 points a game really that unbelievable?

No, but him dropping 70 multiple times a season sounds unbelievable. Then again, I could never imagine anyone dropping 81..

thing is, Jordan had a much better shot selection then Kobe, therefor, he wouldnt be taking those crazy ass shots that Kobe gets.. thats why Kobe can end up with 35 FGA, cuz 8 of those are crazyass shots.. Jordan however would preserve and wait for a good shot.

[phoenix18]

Thread Evaluation

Topic:1

Quality Content:.5

Kobe Mentions:69+

Overall Grade:4%

[Alhazred]

No, but him dropping 70 multiple times a season sounds unbelievable. Then again, I could never imagine anyone dropping 81..

I'm actually skeptical myself as to whether he was capable of doing that. A single 70+ point game is certainly plausible, though.


thing is, Jordan had a much better shot selection then Kobe, therefor, he wouldnt be taking those crazy ass shots that Kobe gets.. thats why Kobe can end up with 35 FGA, cuz 8 of those are crazyass shots.. Jordan however would preserve and wait for a good shot.

Jordan's shot selection was better, but I think Kobe shooting way more threes might have something to do with the difference in shooting percentage, as well.

[jody]

just a quick fact check, for historical purposes.

michael jordan is clearly not 6 foot 6. he's very obviously 1.5 or even 2 full inches shorter than ben roethlisberger, who is usually listed at 6 foot 5.

http://imgsrv.1010wins.com/image/DbGraphic/200906/1273692.jpg

michael jordan might not even be 6-4.

now, back to your regularly scheduled tales of the superhumans who played NBA basketball in the 80s.

[Lebron23]

just a quick fact check, for historical purposes.

michael jordan is clearly not 6 foot 6. he's very obviously 1.5 or even 2 full inches shorter than ben roethlisberger, who is usually listed at 6 foot 5.

http://imgsrv.1010wins.com/image/DbGraphic/200906/1273692.jpg

michael jordan might not even be 6-4.

now, back to your regularly scheduled tales of the superhumans who played NBA basketball in the 80s.


Michael Jordan is 6'4 3/4" (Without Shoes)

Maybe he has shrunk a bit cause he's already in his late 40's.

[magnax1]

I could see him averaging around 37 again if he was playing in his prime in similar circumstances. Defense now is a bit better then it was in the 80's, but quite a bit worse then the 90s. It all depends on the situation though, if he played on the warriors, if you're just going off of statistics, he would average 39 ppg because of the difference in pace in his 37 ppg season. Though obviously its a different situation then that season, so its not like that stat is a real indicator.
Though he'd get in the paint, and score in the paint a lot easier because of the handcheck rule, and how much worse shots blockers have become in the past decade (I guess because of defensive 3 seconds, but that really doesn't make a lot of sense, maybe I'm just imagining the difference in shot blocking)

[Dizzle-2k7]

is that Justin Timberlake on the right? I thought he was like 5'10 max... that picture he's pushin 6'3 6'4 territory :eek:

[Lebron23]

is that Justin Timberlake on the right? I thought he was like 5'10 max... that picture he's pushin 6'3 6'4 territory :eek:


Growth Hormones plus Yoga = Growth Spurts.

[jody]

i could not disagree more with the idea that the field of basketball players was deeper and better 25 years ago. that simply does not make sense in a highly competitive sport with an international talent pool.

i always thought michael jordan was highly overrated as an all-around athlete. then again, it seems that one of the great myths of american sports is that black american basketball players are the best athletes in the world, and could choose to dominate any sport they wanted. it's not true, but it's fun for talk radio.

michael jordan's athletic advantage over his NBA peers from 1990 would be less in 2010. sports inexorably improve, the size and depth of the talent pool grows, the average player continues to slowly and steadily get faster and stronger and heavier.

ben roethlisberger, a football player in his prime in 2010, is probably a better all-around athlete than michael jordan, the best basketball player in his prime in 1990. with 20 less years of golfing experience, he's already a MUCH better golfer than jordan. he CLOBBERED jordan at the US open golf course. all jordan does now is play golf every day, big ben does not have time for that, yet at the US open, roethlisberger turned in a score LOWER than 2 or 3 of the PGA pros. meaning that RIGHT NOW, roethlisberger could leave the NFL and become a PGA pro.

he's probably also better at baseball, and can easily throw a fastball over 90 miles an hour, good enough to be an MLB reliever if he deliberately left the NFL and played baseball for 2 years like a certain somebody we know. this is what green bay packers quarterback aaron rodgers was going to do after high school, because he only got 1 DI scholarship to play football.

so, that would make roethlisberger probably better than jordan at 2 sports which are not his pro sport. this is hardly impossible stuff, as bo jackson, john elway, and neon deion were far better all-around athletes than jordan while jordan was in his prime. but it shows how sports continue to advance. a great quarterback in 2010 is already a better all-around athlete than the most athletic basketball guard from 1990.

[Dizzle-2k7]

Growth Hormones plus Yoga = Growth Spurts.

how do you know he juiced?

[Force]

Jordan would have no problem averaging 40 in todays game with no handcheck. He would get to the FT line anytime he wanted.

Joe Dumars said this and just a few months ago Craig Hodges said it as well... the game would be too easy with no handcheck...he wouldn't have been as good defensively without using his hands, but scoring would be a cinch.

[plowking]

Basically what I found out in this thread is that scoring is so easy today, that players could average any amount of points they want it seems.

Kiki Vandegwhe who averaged 30+ in the 80's could now average 35+ simply because of handchecking, and would thus most likely be the best player in the league accordingly.

No, its not easier to score today. Jordan would score the same amount of points now as he would back then.

[catch24]

Basically what I found out in this thread is that scoring is so easy today, that players could average any amount of points they want it seems.

Kiki Vandegwhe who averaged 30+ in the 80's could now average 35+ simply because of handchecking, and would thus most likely be the best player in the league accordingly.

No, its not easier to score today. Jordan would score the same amount of points now as he would back then.

Not saying Kiki Vandegwhe is a mediocre player, but 29ppg on 56% during the 80's? I don't even think he's on Dirk's level.

[MK2V1GP]

anyone can say anything they want when they don't have to go prove it.

[plowking]

Not saying Kiki Vandegwhe is a mediocre player, but 29ppg on 56% during the 80's? I don't even think he's on Dirk's level.

He's not, he was a very good player, but do people honestly think he'd be the best scorer in the league, and consequently most likely competing for best player seeing as most seem to think his points would go up by about 4ppg, and shooting percentages would boost.

Forget the fact that team defense has improved, defensive players are better trained, players are more athletic, have more technological advances to break down and view the game and analyze specific players before a game... Now its just as hard as ever to put the ball in the hoop. Handchecking is what it says, a check, player movement was not to be restricted; look at the rules put in place. The reason the league seemed more physical back in the 80's and 90's was due to off the ball play. You can no longer continuously bump offensive players looking to set screens like you could before, etc.

[Dizzle-2k7]

Basically what I found out in this thread is that scoring is so easy today, that players could average any amount of points they want it seems.

Kiki Vandegwhe who averaged 30+ in the 80's could now average 35+ simply because of handchecking, and would thus most likely be the best player in the league accordingly.

No, its not easier to score today. Jordan would score the same amount of points now as he would back then.

thats a solid analogy.. im eager to hear one of the "jordan would average 45ppg" guys try and rebute this post.

[Fatal9]

Again people, please watch old school games...the entire thing not just highlights and look at how the following things negatively impact the team defense:


a. Weak side defenders may come in the pro lane (16’), but not in the college lane (12’) for more than three seconds.
b. Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player adjacent to paint area).
c. Player without ball may not be double-teamed from weak side.
d. Offensive player above foul line and inside circle must be played by defender inside dotted line.
e. If offensive player is above the top of the circle, defender must come to a position above foul line.
f. Defender on cutter must follow the cutter, switch, or double-team the ball.

Also look for how much easier it is to create an isolation 1 on 1 situation for your star player.

You really think handchecking, which still was regulated, is more important than all this? I would gladly trade keeping what is above for whatever 1-2 extra FTs players shoot today (even though team FTA are actually much much lower than before, and on average a team shot less than 1 additional FT after the "new rules" were put in).

[madmax]

All these folk tales about "superhumans" from the 80's destroying today's league are quite laughable to say the least:roll: Nevermind the defensive schemes are MUCH more sophisticated than ever before, including various elements of team defense and zone, also the talent pool is much bigger with the players all arround the world playing in the NBA now. Jordan would be averaging just about the same numbers nowadays, adjusted to today's rules - all these tales about 45-50 PPG seasons are just nice myths to entertain masses...