Lakers interested in Devin Harris

[Lakers13]

How very unlikely this would happen, but does anyone have an insider account with ESPN who would like to post a link?

[wang4three]

Haha, hopefully this one ends better than their attempt to get Jason Kidd.

[lilbeastnani]

Harris would love that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3xjkS6suI&feature=PlayList&p=68EE67FC9F4E82C7&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=93

[Lakers13]

I guess it could be doable with Devin at 8.4

Give them Adam Morrison and either Farmar/Sasha/Brown to make it work.

[wang4three]

I guess it could be doable with Devin at 8.4

Give them Adam Morrison and either Farmar/Sasha/Brown to make it work.

Yup cause that combination of talent worked for Jason Kidd last time.

[plowking]

I called this in another thread. I see this happening next season or during the off season as that way the Nets can determine if they are getting John Wall. I doubt he is moved this season.

Miami should also look to make a move. New York too.

[playtetris]

I guess it could be doable with Devin at 8.4

Give them Adam Morrison and either Farmar/Sasha/Brown to make it work.

if this went down, the nets would definitely be the worst team in history. why would they accept that deal, though? it makes no sense.

[InspiredLebowski]

There's no one on the Lakers that they'd move that'd bring Harris. Not even close.

[Lakers13]

if this went down, the nets would definitely be the worst team in history. why would they accept that deal, though? it makes no sense.

Free up cap room and pray to God they get Mr. Wall

Im just the messenger on this one, I dont see it happening myself.

[Lakers13]

Yup cause that combination of talent worked for Jason Kidd last time.

It would have if Buss Jr wasnt in love with Andrew.

[crisoner]

Harris would love that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3xjkS6suI&feature=PlayList&p=68EE67FC9F4E82C7&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=93


Ha Great vid!
Would of done the same thing!!!

[konex]

I was mocked for that thread about Farmar/Morrison for Harris but I bet that's exactly what LA offered :roll:

[Lakers13]

I was mocked for that thread about Farmar/Morrison for Harris but I bet that's exactly what LA offered :roll:


It's coming from Ric Bucher, looks like he's been on ISH again :D

[All Net]

I was mocked for that thread about Farmar/Morrison for Harris but I bet that's exactly what LA offered :roll:

well they wouldn't offer any of the main 6.

[wang4three]

It would have if Buss Jr wasnt in love with Andrew.

If you throw in Andrew, I bet we give up Devin.

[GollyImSoGully]

Yup cause that combination of talent worked for Jason Kidd last time.

Right because Adam is not an expiring contract? It's clearly a trade that could be done, just look at the Pau trade.

Don't act like this is a trade that has no chance of going through. Especially if the Nets are targeting Wall. They get more money to spend and get a nice talent in Farmar.

[InspiredLebowski]

Nets are already $30mm+ under the cap next year. But yeah, it makes all sorts of sense to give away a 26 year old All Star to the Lakers for nothing.

[GollyImSoGully]

Nets are already $30mm+ under the cap next year. But yeah, it makes all sorts of sense to give away a 26 year old All Star to the Lakers for nothing.



For a simple package of Jordan Farmar and Adam Morrison (along with draft considerations, although LA can't trade a pick until 2012), New Jersey would open up another $9 million in cap . . . setting their figure at a league high $33.2 million

per Emplay

Right makes no sense....let's see hmmmm freeing up more money and most likely getting Wall and more money to throw at a superstar... I don't know..doesn't make sense to me. :rolleyes:

Some people are so scared of LA getting better that they brush off any proposal involving them. Same people did that for the Gasol trade.

[InspiredLebowski]

WTF is emplay?

[All Net]

WTF is emplay?

insider...

[KAJ=GOAT]

Nets are already $30mm+ under the cap next year. But yeah, it makes all sorts of sense to give away a 26 year old All Star to the Lakers for nothing.


Pau for Kwame.

The Lakers know how to make things like this happen.



Save me the "but Pau was 27, I said 26" retort.

[sergiorodriguez]

Pau for Kwame.

The Lakers know how to make things like this happen.



Save me the "but Pau was 27, I said 26" retort.
and Marc Gasol:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Who both teams knew would be good. so it was Pau for a bunch of picks, an expirer, and Pau's little brother who within two seasons became a top 5 center in the NBA.

Yeah that deal sounds horrible.

[miller-time]

the lakers are sluts. they are into anything that moves now.

[RoTM]

These espn trade articles have been pathetic lately. They are clearly just making BS up. I mean seriously if you are going to lie then at least be believable. BTW Laker homers Harris is infinitely more valuable as a sign and trade piece then cap space would ever be, or are the Nets too stupid to even get back a decent expiring contract like Allen/T-Mac back for Harris?

[Rocker09]

Interesting but highly unlikely...I'd be really amazed if Mitch will be able to pull this one off...

[nevetslc88]

Rumorville: Harris to Lakers?
LINK (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=15048)

[KAJ=GOAT]

and Marc Gasol:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Who both teams knew would be good. so it was Pau for a bunch of picks, an expirer, and Pau's little brother who within two seasons became a top 5 center in the NBA.

Yeah that deal sounds horrible.


Marc Gasol,

the one guy that was on every teams wish list.

lol who both teams knew would be so good,

so good that the it was the Lakers who developed him.

Yea, that Marc Gasol.

That Marc Gasol that hadn't even played a single NBA minute.


Don't forget the great Crittenton as well.

Lord knows they gave up one of the all time great NBA "shooters".


lol top 5 center.

If it makes you feel better.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Rumorville: Harris to Lakers?
LINK (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=15048)


Ric Bucher is about as believable as Bob Arum.

[Torious]

Don't even think they'd trade him for Bynum straight up right now, would hurt their post season options too much to take on more salary and trading him to free up salary cap space makes no sense, his contract is excellent for his skill level.

After they secured a high profile free agent in the off season (and that's a BIG if) and if they're lucky on the draft they might look to trade up, or work out a sign and trade for a second free agent.

But what are the chances of all this happening :lol

[sergiorodriguez]

Marc Gasol,

the one guy that was on every teams wish list.

lol who both teams knew would be so good,

so good that the it was the Lakers who developed him.

Yea, that Marc Gasol.

That Marc Gasol that hadn't even played a single NBA minute.


Don't forget the great Crittenton as well.

Lord knows they gave up one of the all time great NBA "shooters".


lol top 5 center.

If it makes you feel better.
Marc Gasol is a top 5 center in the league right now. Also at the time of the trade Marc Gasol was having an MVP year in the ACB league. He was also starting for Spain's national team. Grizzlies knew he was basically a sure thing. At the worst they had a big 7'1 260 pound center with good work rate.


Crittenton had potential, and lottery level talent- he's 6'3, athletic and good ball handling, he could have been the next Baron Davis if he wasn't such a bonehead, but prospects don't always turn out, can't say Critt didn't have a high ceiling thoughh.

[El Kabong]

I don't see why the Nets wouldn't be offering up Yi in the deal too. That way, they'd be able to clear up even more cap space! And then they can spend it on....um...

[playtetris]

I don't see why the Nets wouldn't be offering up Yi in the deal too. That way, they'd be able to clear up even more cap space! And then they can spend it on....um...

why not throw in lopez for no apparent reason too? that sounds nice.

[plowking]

I don't see why the Nets wouldn't be offering up Yi in the deal too. That way, they'd be able to clear up even more cap space! And then they can spend it on....um...

Throwing away the whole team wouldn't be a bad place to start. I mean, they've only won 3 games... lol.

[oh the horror]

Throwing away the whole team wouldn't be a bad place to start. I mean, they've only won 3 games... lol.


Yeah, they sure as hell better hang on to that core.

[plowking]

Yeah, they sure as hell better hang on to that core.

Miami will gladly take Lopez and Harris off their hands.

[AJ2k8]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12467/nets-pulling-brakes-on-harris-trade-talk

[DoubleTech]

rofl.

you don't need insider to know that the Lakers desperately want someone better at the 1 than Fish or Farmar.

However, taking young talent from a rebuilding team is a stupid idea. No chance NJ gives up a stud like Harris for expiring contracts. If he was 35, sure... but he's under 25... why would a rebuilding team give that up?

Wall is not guaranteed.

Landing a free agent is not guaranteed.

[King Baron]

Why would the Lakers want him? There's a reason the nets are the worst team in the league with what looks like a historically awful record. He's injury prone, and is mainly puts up stats because of the lack of other stars.

Baron is a veteran star who plays up when he wants to, he's friends with Kobe, has asked to be traded to the Lakers before, and would fit perfectly with Phil.

[HylianNightmare]

Damn

Harris
Kobe
Artest
Pau
Bynum
?

Fuc that

[Anton Chigurh]

Crittenton had potential, and lottery level talent- he's 6'3, athletic and good ball handling, he could have been the next Baron Davis if he wasn't such a bonehead, but prospects don't always turn out, can't say Critt didn't have a high ceiling thoughh.

I don't think it's humanely possible to be dumber than sergio

[AJ2k8]

the link i posted says the nets are looking to keep devin til at least the lottery...

[oh the horror]

I'd imagine they'd keep him until they found out what pick in the lottery they had. If they land the number ONE pick.....yeah....Harris is OUT of there.

[PleezeBelieve]

So hold up, John Wall is worth tanking for now? :roll:

[1~Gibson~1]

I guess it could be doable with Devin at 8.4

Give them Adam Morrison and either Farmar/Sasha/Brown to make it work.
:roll:

[niko]

Harris is a complainer and has asked out. He is overpaid for what he does - he's a shooting PG who needs to dominate the ball to be effective. I can easily see the Nets shipping him out.

[Quata]

Why do some lakers fans automatically assume that every team would trade a good player for morrison/farmar just because they are expirers even if they are getting no talent whilst giving talent up?

[niko]

So hold up, John Wall is worth tanking for now? :roll:

The Nets don't need to tank, they are all but assured of the worst record under any circumstance.

And yes, John Wall is worth tanking for, have you not seen him?

[plowking]

Damn

Harris
Kobe
Artest
Pau
Bynum
?

Fuc that

All star at every position... We're all ****ed...

[PleezeBelieve]

The Nets don't need to tank, they are all but assured of the worst record under any circumstance.

And yes, John Wall is worth tanking for, have you not seen him?
Yes, I've seen him play and NO he's not worth tanking for especially with the depth in this draft and the fact they already have a quality point guard....duh?

[niko]

Yes, I've seen him play and NO he's not worth tanking for especially with the depth in this draft and the fact they already have a quality point guard....duh?

No, they have a quality SG who plays PG because of his height and because he is uneffective without the ball. A PG who leads you to 3 wins in 40 games is not a quality PG. Wall is a hundred times better. ANd again, trading Harris is not tanking, are you retarded? They have 3 wins, they don't need to make moves to be bad.

I know you measure things by Lebron but Wall being less than LEbron doesn't make him a special talent. If you don't think he's a special talent, then basically you have NOT seen him play and you are just pulling **** out of your ass.

And didn't i tell you not to post until you explain why the Cavs have more losses already than you assured us they wouldn't have all year.:rant

[PleezeBelieve]

No, they have a quality SG who plays PG because of his height and because he is uneffective without the ball. A PG who leads you to 3 wins in 40 games is not a quality PG. Wall is a hundred times better. ANd again, trading Harris is not tanking, are you retarded? They have 3 wins, they don't need to make moves to be bad.

I know you measure things by Lebron but Wall being less than LEbron doesn't make him a special talent. If you don't think he's a special talent, then basically you have NOT seen him play and you are just pulling **** out of your ass.

And didn't i tell you not to post until you explain why the Cavs have more losses already than you assured us they wouldn't have all year.:rant
And if John Wall was on this Nets team, how many wins would they have?

Ahhhh, don't bother answeing cause I have a feeling you'll sound like an idiot with whatever you have to say.

And yes I've seen Wall play and he doesn't look special yo me...atleast not special enough claim him as a franchise savior.

Like, are you kidding me? Tanking for John Wall? Essentially have your offseason splash be trading Harris for cap relief and having Wall replace him if they get him?

You think thats the blueprint for success? :roll:

They still have holes at SF and PF. You think drafting a transition PG with a broke jumper is going to something out of nothing there?

Go sit your lil ass down in a corner before I make an example of you like I've done so many other posters on this board.

[Lakers13]

Why do some lakers fans automatically assume that every team would trade a good player for morrison/farmar just because they are expirers even if they are getting no talent whilst giving talent up?


It was Ric Bucher's idea, its just being discussed. Quit your own assumptions.

[Lakers13]

:roll:


I know, it makes me laugh as much as when I hear Z for West rumors.

[oh the horror]

So, there are trade rumors around, and yet, somehow, to people on this board, LA fans are still the bad guys?


Some people hate the LA organization so much, its disturbing.

[HylianNightmare]

All star at every position... We're all ****ed...

yeah... pretty much....





hope to god nothing like this happens

[wang4three]

Right because Adam is not an expiring contract? It's clearly a trade that could be done, just look at the Pau trade.

Don't act like this is a trade that has no chance of going through. Especially if the Nets are targeting Wall. They get more money to spend and get a nice talent in Farmar.

Nothing I've read as a Nets fan has supported the idea that we've been trying to move Devin for an expiring contract. Any trade talk of Devin has been more or less moving him for same level talent like Caron Butler.

If we get Wall, we'll deal with that then. What's the point of acting like we're going to get him right now? Wall isn't guaranteed to us especially with recent history dictating that the worst team hasn't always gotten the #1 pick.

So yes, I am going to act like this trade has no chance to go through. Also, don't act like if we were trading Devin, we couldn't get better than Adam Morrison.

[Anton Chigurh]

And if John Wall was on this Nets team, how many wins would they have?

Ahhhh, don't bother answeing cause I have a feeling you'll sound like an idiot with whatever you have to say.

And yes I've seen Wall play and he doesn't look special yo me...atleast not special enough claim him as a franchise savior.

Like, are you kidding me? Tanking for John Wall? Essentially have your offseason splash be trading Harris for cap relief and having Wall replace him if they get him?

You think thats the blueprint for success? :roll:

They still have holes at SF and PF. You think drafting a transition PG with a broke jumper is going to something out of nothing there?

Go sit your lil ass down in a corner before I make an example of you like I've done so many other posters on this board.

...and yet he always dodges that question. that one question!!!

[wang4three]

Why do some lakers fans automatically assume that every team would trade a good player for morrison/farmar just because they are expirers even if they are getting no talent whilst giving talent up?

Welcome to ISH

[niko]

And if John Wall was on this Nets team, how many wins would they have?

Ahhhh, don't bother answeing cause I have a feeling you'll sound like an idiot with whatever you have to say.

And yes I've seen Wall play and he doesn't look special yo me...atleast not special enough claim him as a franchise savior.

Like, are you kidding me? Tanking for John Wall? Essentially have your offseason splash be trading Harris for cap relief and having Wall replace him if they get him?

You think thats the blueprint for success? :roll:

They still have holes at SF and PF. You think drafting a transition PG with a broke jumper is going to something out of nothing there?

Go sit your lil ass down in a corner before I make an example of you like I've done so many other posters on this board.

Cough 73-9, cough cough.

And I explained they are not tanking, you cannot get worse than 3 wins. You do not have to tank when you are THE WORST. You cannot be worse than WORST. Is this too ****ing hard for you to understand?

If you think Devin Harris is remotely comparable to John Wall you are insane and know nothing period. So fire away - it's a stupid thought.

[oh the horror]

So who else would we trade to NJ? This is the rumor we got....LA interested in Harris. So we're realistically discussing what might go down.


Wtf does Jersey think Harris is worth? Sure as hell aint anyone else on the LA roster than a Morrison, and whoever else. :lol

[niko]

Nothing I've read as a Nets fan has supported the idea that we've been trying to move Devin for an expiring contract. Any trade talk of Devin has been more or less moving him for same level talent like Caron Butler.

If we get Wall, we'll deal with that then. What's the point of acting like we're going to get him right now? Wall isn't guaranteed to us especially with recent history dictating that the worst team hasn't always gotten the #1 pick.

So yes, I am going to act like this trade has no chance to go through. Also, don't act like if we were trading Devin, we couldn't get better than Adam Morrison.

I've heard lately Harris wants out and that the Nets would be open to moving him for savings as the ownership transfer is coming up. The Nets are hemmoraging money remember. There is no one going, and if you want to go, no one wants to pay. (It's very easy to get comp net tickets if you try.) It doesn't strike me as ridiculous, yes i haven't heard much about it but when do you hear much about the nets at all? They lose every game, they are relugated to Devils hockey like coverage.

[LA_Showtime]

Hinrich would be the better option. He fits the triangle and isn't injury prone. It takes two to dance though, and I don't see why the Bulls or Nets would trade their point guards for two unproven players.

[Pinkhearts]

And if John Wall was on this Nets team, how many wins would they have?

Ahhhh, don't bother answeing cause I have a feeling you'll sound like an idiot with whatever you have to say.

And yes I've seen Wall play and he doesn't look special yo me...atleast not special enough claim him as a franchise savior.

Like, are you kidding me? Tanking for John Wall? Essentially have your offseason splash be trading Harris for cap relief and having Wall replace him if they get him?

You think thats the blueprint for success? :roll:

They still have holes at SF and PF. You think drafting a transition PG with a broke jumper is going to something out of nothing there?

Go sit your lil ass down in a corner before I make an example of you like I've done so many other posters on this board.

Which part of cap space do you not get? It's not about John Wall, that's a bonus. It's the cap space to get 2 max FAs.

Holes at SF and PF?

PG: John Wall
SG: Courtney Lee
SF: Lebron James
PF: Chris Bosh
C: Brook Lopez

Please tell me the holes in this team. This team = championship. Not even the Lakers can stop this.

The real question to ask is: Should the Nets risk Harris to get Lebron and Bosh? Will backfire bad if they didn't get a good FA.

[wang4three]

I've heard lately Harris wants out and that the Nets would be open to moving him for savings as the ownership transfer is coming up. The Nets are hemmoraging money remember. There is no one going, and if you want to go, no one wants to pay. (It's very easy to get comp net tickets if you try.) It doesn't strike me as ridiculous, yes i haven't heard much about it but when do you hear much about the nets at all? They lose every game, they are relugated to Devils hockey like coverage.

Rod doesn't panic and just move people without reason. He's been in this league a long time and he's been rather patient with his deals and gotten what he wanted each time. So no, I still don't think there is any validity to that. And if he didn't move Kidd to the Lakers for their scrap years ago, I don't see him making the same move without getting some sort of talent back.

[MMM]

It would be dumb to trade him before the draft lottery because they might not get Wall since the team with the worse record hardly ever gets 1st pick.

[wang4three]

Hinrich would be the better option. He fits the triangle and isn't injury prone. It takes two to dance though, and I don't see why the Bulls or Nets would trade their point guards for two unproven players.

Are we talking about a different Hinrich? Cause the Hinrich I know played 51 games last season and has tape all over his hand this season.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

PG: John Wall
SG: Courtney Lee
SF: Lebron James
PF: Chris Bosh
C: Brook Lopez

Please tell me the holes in this team.

There you go.

[Pinkhearts]

There you go.

Oh yes. Lee is a bigger hole than old ass Derek Fisher who lets everybody through. You know, that Lakers hole that is not stopping them from having the best record? Young Lee, who can improve every year. You will be doing a better job if you highlighted John Wall dumbass.

[Dasher]

John Wall and Devin Harris are essentially the same player. Swapping one for the other would at best be a lateral move. Devin has a great contract. How many All-Star caliber players make a shade more than 8Mill a year?

And I agree with PB, Wall is not a franchise saving player. John gets a disproportionate amount of praise for the success of The Wildcats. The Cats already had the preseason SEC Player of the Year on the team before John ever suited up. The Cats are stacked.

[Pinkhearts]

John Wall and Devin Harris are essentially the same player. Swapping one for the other would at best be a lateral move. Devin has a great contract. How many All-Star caliber players make a shade more than 8Mill a year?

And I agree with PB, Wall is not a franchise saving player. John gets a disproportionate amount of praise for the success of The Wildcats. The Cats already had the preseason SEC Player of the Year on the team before John ever suited up. The Cats are stacked.

My god why is nobody getting this. Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space.

Wall is not the franchise saving player. Lebron and Bosh is. And you know that there is a better chance to lure the players if both of them can come right? Lebron might not come to NJ since they suck so much. But if Bosh is coming to be his sidekick too, he will be dancing in glee. Bosh will be more likely to come if he can play with Lebron too. That's what they are looking for, not John Wall.

Why would the Bulls give up Hinrich for nothing? Hinrich makes 9.5m this year. Why waste 9.5m on a backup PG or a makeshift SG? Why not get rid of him and use the space to get a real SG or another top FA? Bosh, Wade, Amare, JJ > Hinrich playing SG. That's why they will do it.

What you should be doing now is to evaluate whether it is sensible to risk giving up a great PG and a decent contract in hopes of landing these great players. Not comparing John Wall and Devin Harris. You guys are off the ball so much it is ridiculous.

[Dasher]

^I am a Nets fan. The capspace is meaningless. Chris Bosh laughed off any notion of going to Joisey, but remains coy about The Knicks. This surprisingly horrible season has pretty much cooled any dreams of getting a splashy free-agent signing. The Nets can't even hope to get Joe Johnson. The best that could happen is a Carlos Boozer level player.

[Pinkhearts]

All the more reason why you need the space to get 2 max FAs.

Bosh won't be laughing if Lebron is coming as well. Nobody will think the Nets will suck if Lebron is coming. Even if Bosh simply hates NJ, well get Amare instead. Or yeah Boozer. Lebron will be delighted to come if you give him an all star sidekick and a decent supporting cast.

[PleezeBelieve]

Son, tell me when the cap-clearing trade is going down?

You trading Harris before or after you find out you not getting the #1 pick?

When you trading him, genius?

[DukeDelonte13]

All the more reason why you need the space to get 2 max FAs.

Bosh won't be laughing if Lebron is coming as well. Nobody will think the Nets will suck if Lebron is coming. Even if Bosh simply hates NJ, well get Amare instead. Or yeah Boozer. Lebron will be delighted to come if you give him an all star sidekick and a decent supporting cast.
:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Pinkhearts]

Son, tell me when the cap-clearing trade is going down?

You trading Harris before or after you find out you not getting the #1 pick?

When you trading him, genius?

I'm not very sure about the rules, but you can't trade for expiring contracts on the off season right? Those expirings would have expired by then. So yeah if a trade needs to be done it has to be before the deadline.

Screw John Wall. We're not looking for him to replace Harris. If NJ can get him good! If not just draft some other guy, then trade or sign another PG to replace Harris.

Oh yes great logical minds you people have, posting 2 smileys with no arguments for it. I'm sure you guys will post smileys if you have heard of the Gasol trade before it happened too. :roll: :roll:

I'm not even saying that the nets should do this. I'm just saying that it's logically sound. It's all the matter of whether they want to take the risk of losing Harris for a chance at 2 max FAs, which you cannot deny is a very possible scenario.

[PleezeBelieve]

I'm not very sure about the rules, but you can't trade for expiring contracts on the off season right? Those expirings would have expired by then. So yeah if a trade needs to be done it has to be before the deadline.

Screw John Wall. We're not looking for him to replace Harris. If NJ can get him good! If not just draft some other guy, then trade or sign another PG to replace Harris.

Oh yes great logical minds you people have, posting 2 smileys with no arguments for it. I'm sure you guys will post smileys if you have heard of the Gasol trade before it happened too. :roll: :roll:

I'm not even saying that the nets should do this. I'm just saying that it's logically sound. It's all the matter of whether they want to take the risk of losing Harris for a chance at 2 max FAs, which you cannot deny is a very possible scenario.
:oldlol: :oldlol:

I'm a let you off the hook...

[wang4three]

John Wall and Devin Harris are essentially the same player. Swapping one for the other would at best be a lateral move. Devin has a great contract. How many All-Star caliber players make a shade more than 8Mill a year?

And I agree with PB, Wall is not a franchise saving player. John gets a disproportionate amount of praise for the success of The Wildcats. The Cats already had the preseason SEC Player of the Year on the team before John ever suited up. The Cats are stacked.

John Wall as a Freshman is better than Devin Harris was during his Big 10 Player of the Year/All-American season. Considering he's only 20, I have to disagree here.

[wang4three]

My god why is nobody getting this. Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space Cap space.



What's the point of having a ridiculous amount of cap space when everyone from Joe Johnson to LeBron have pretty much dismissed the idea of coming here?

[Pinkhearts]

:oldlol: :oldlol:

I'm a let you off the hook...

What hook am I on? You have yet to defend yourself. I am laughing at you guys for being off the ball. Instead of debating Harris vs Cap space, you are debating Harris vs John Wall :roll: :roll: . And there is no guarantee that the Nets will get Wall! :roll:

My prior post is to educate you what the Nets are considering. Trade for expirings now (ammo+farmar) to get 2 max FAs. And the trade has to go down before the deadline. And stop bringing up John Wall arguing that he's an inferior replacement for Harris. John Wall is a bonus, he isn't the reason for the trade at all.

[artex]

Please Dont Trade Shannon Mitch :(

[Pinkhearts]

What's the point of having a ridiculous amount of cap space when everyone from Joe Johnson to LeBron have pretty much dismissed the idea of coming here?

Links of Lebron and Bosh saying this. And Kobe also once said he wanted out of the Lakers too. Just because they say this now doesn't mean it will turn out that way.

The reason why they wouldn't want to come now is because they think New Jersey sucks and they have to carry the team if they go there. But this won't happen if 2 stars go into the team together.

Even if they said have said that, it is up to the GM to change their minds. One way to do this is to get enough cap space to get both Bosh and Lebron together. Which other team can offer another superstar player for these free agents to play with? Yeah Miami that's it. There are so many free agents out there who can both play together to win a championship that they will certainly consider coming in to Jersey.

[wang4three]

Link of Lebron and Bosh saying this. And Kobe also once said he want out of the Lakers too. Ridiculous.

The reason why they wouldn't want to come is because they think New Jersey sucks and they have to carry the team if they go there. But this won't happen if 2 stars go into the team together.

Even if they said have said that, it is up to the GM to change their minds. One way to do this is to get enough cap space to get both Bosh and Lebron together. Which other team can offer another superstar player for these free agents to play with? Yeah Miami that's it. There are so many free agents out there who can both play together to win a championship that they will play together.

You make it sound like it's a walk in a park. How many superstars do you see doing that in their prime? And to New Jersey? I love the Nets but as a business proposal that's a very tough sell. They'd have to be in the same room at the same time and agree to it in principle. You're essentially banking on Nets front management to deliver on something that to my recollection, has never been done in the history of the NBA. We could come out of this aiming for LeBron and Bosh and come out with only Rudy Gay and Tyrus Thomas.

Also I believe New York is capable making the same deal and seeing how their team looks better than ours at the moment from a coaching, players, wins, and geographic standpoint so that's a tougher place to compete with. It's a huge, huge gamble and one I don't think the Nets are willing to take especially considering that New Jersey is the hardest place to sell as a playing destination for in almost all of professional sports.

[niko]

I don't think the Nets trade Harris for so little but i really think there is the possibility Nets mgmt doesn't think Harris is part of their future. I really think he's an overrated player. He needs the ball way too much to be effective, and without VC, he's not close to the same player. HE was only dominant when the offense was the Nets (for some reason i never understood) forcefed him the ball.

[wang4three]

I don't think the Nets trade Harris for so little but i really think there is the possibility Nets mgmt doesn't think Harris is part of their future. I really think he's an overrated player. He needs the ball way too much to be effective, and without VC, he's not close to the same player. HE was only dominant when the offense was the Nets (for some reason i never understood) forcefed him the ball.

Yes, I'm more inclined to think that trade Devin for a guy who is at his same talent level like a Caron Butler because it makes more sense and it doesn't seriously handicap us as trading away all our best players does.

[TROLL_HUNTER]

None of this is going to happen. Lakers have enough scorers and this guy would chuck their offense instead of making the teamplay better. What is more likely to happen is a trade with Minnesota...

[bagelred]

None of this is going to happen. Lakers have enough scorers and this guy would chuck their offense instead of making the teamplay better. What is more likely to happen is a trade with Minnesota...

Yes because if there's one thing Minnesota needs, it's ANOTHER Point Guard.

[TROLL_HUNTER]

Yes because if there's one thing Minnesota needs, it's ANOTHER Point Guard.



Not exactly. My point is Minney has a rookie talent in Flynn which costs little money and moreover they have the rights for another young talent (supertalent) which would also cost near nothing. Obviously they have to develop one of these 2 guys cos having the 2 in the roster is not workable. A trade is almost a must. If Lakers were smart enough they would keep an eye on this

[Pinkhearts]

You make it sound like it's a walk in a park. How many superstars do you see doing that in their prime? And to New Jersey? I love the Nets but as a business proposal that's a very tough sell. They'd have to be in the same room at the same time and agree to it in principle. You're essentially banking on Nets front management to deliver on something that to my recollection, has never been done in the history of the NBA. We could come out of this aiming for LeBron and Bosh and come out with only Rudy Gay and Tyrus Thomas.

Also I believe New York is capable making the same deal and seeing how their team looks better than ours at the moment from a coaching, players, wins, and geographic standpoint so that's a tougher place to compete with. It's a huge, huge gamble and one I don't think the Nets are willing to take especially considering that New Jersey is the hardest place to sell as a playing destination for in almost all of professional sports.

I've done my job here. I came in here to steer you idiots from talking about John Wall back to discussing cap space. Notice I have never once said the Nets should do this, but it is a viable option to consider. And also I'm here to shoot down cowards like the idiot who ignored every point made against him and when I shot down every stupid question he has to ask, he says he's letting me off the hook. :roll: REALLY? How about the hook you're on?

Now you're a step in the right direction. You have to bring the facts and argue why it isn't possible for the Nets to land FAs. Work all out possible scenarios and weigh out the probabilities. Then compare to see if it is worth losing Harris for it.

Here's some advantages that the Nets have to land FAs:

- They have cap space to land 2 max FAs if Harris is gone. Currently only Miami has the space to get 2 max FAs. No, New York cannot make the same deal with Curry and Jeffries on the books.

- With space for 2 they can get Lebron and a superstar sidekick to help him. Lebron wouldn't want to go New York or some other crap team alone carrying that crap team with no help and winning no championship. I don't think any other team has a more attractive player to pair Lebron with.

- There are so many FAs available and some of them are stuck in really hopeless teams. I'm sure it is very possible to tempt at least one to come to NJ for a fresh start with all that space. If 2 elite players show interest the grass will suddenly be much greener and easier to lure more players with.

- NJ has young talent in Brook Lopez, Courtney Lee and a top 5 draft pick as a supporting cast to grow with the team. No other team can promise that much with as much space as NJ.

[bdreason]

Harris isn't a good fit on the Lakers. They need a PG that can set up other players... not a shoot first PG with no jumper.

[crisoner]

Would love to have Harris but for Farmar and Shannon?

Hmmmmmm

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Yes, I'm more inclined to think that trade Devin for a guy who is at his same talent level like a Caron Butler because it makes more sense and it doesn't seriously handicap us as trading away all our best players does.

its not about getting talent back....its about getting the expirer and saving money
read this article:

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2009/07/new_jersey_nets_owner_bruce_ra_2.html

i think they will wait...just to wait and make sure they get Wall before trading Harris...

I would prefer hinrich honestly

Harris is shooting 20% from 3 and 38% from fg

[ZeN]

Would love to have Harris but for Farmar and Shannon?

Hmmmmmm


Yeah I know not worth it..

[wang4three]

Now you're a step in the right direction. You have to bring the facts and argue why it isn't possible for the Nets to land FAs. Work all out possible scenarios and weigh out the probabilities. Then compare to see if it is worth losing Harris for it.

I don't think you're doing that, but I'll indulge in your supposed "facts".



- They have cap space to land 2 max FAs if Harris is gone. Currently only Miami has the space to get 2 max FAs. No, New York cannot make the same deal with Curry and Jeffries on the books.

Hmm Miami or New Jersey...


- With space for 2 they can get Lebron and a superstar sidekick to help him. Lebron wouldn't want to go New York or some other crap team alone carrying that crap team with no help and winning no championship. I don't think any other team has a more attractive player to pair Lebron with.

Like I said, this is no walk in the park to get done. You have to have two SUPERSTARS agree to simultaneously do this. We're not talking about getting guys past their primes like Karl Malone and Payton. We're talking about two stars to join after what will be historically worst teams of all time. What reasons do they have to join? LeBron is already on one of the best teams in the league, what incentives is there to start all over new in New Jersey? Just to play with Bosh/Amare/Wade when he's already having 60 win seasons? Not to mention how long it will take take for him to gel with teammates, new coaching staff, and playing style. Asking LeBron to take this risk just seems very stupid.



- There are so many FAs available and some of them are stuck in really hopeless teams. I'm sure it is very possible to tempt at least one to come to NJ for a fresh start with all that space. If 2 elite players show interest the grass will suddenly be much greener and easier to lure more players with.

Show me an instance where this strategy has worked in the past. Where the worst team in the league cleared up space then got two of the best players in the league and changed everything. You think this is that easy?



- NJ has young talent in Brook Lopez, Courtney Lee and a top 5 draft pick as a supporting cast to grow with the team. No other team can promise that much with as much space as NJ.

Brook Lopez and the possibility of John Wall would be the only lure as far as teammates go. Courtney Lee? That guy is nothing more than a role player. I don't think any star right now is like, "I get to play with Courtney Lee!!!"

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

well they wouldn't offer any of the main 6.
if they aren't offering artest it is out of loyalty. (since he signed cheap to come over)

[All Net]

if they aren't offering artest it is out of loyalty. (since he signed cheap to come over)

Why would they offer a big part of L.A's defense? makes no sense..Harris wouldn't have a better impact on games as Ron does.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Nets are already $30mm+ under the cap next year. But yeah, it makes all sorts of sense to give away a 26 year old All Star to the Lakers for nothing.
Pau was only 27 when we got him. everybody was saying that was for nothing (of course marc gasol proved to be a valuable asset in that trade.)

[Nets fan 93]

Brook Lopez and the possibility of John Wall would be the only lure as far as teammates go. Courtney Lee? That guy is nothing more than a role player. I don't think any star right now is like, "I get to play with Courtney Lee!!!"
A star would probably be strongly against playing with Courtney Lee. He is the definition of chucker, it is sad but true.




[QUOTE]Stein: Hold Off On Harris Trade Talk
January 21, 2010, 7:43 am

Gently chiding his ESPN colleagues for getting a bit too excited about a Devin Harris trade, Marc Stein says the Nets aren

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Why would they offer a big part of L.A's defense? makes no sense..Harris wouldn't have a better impact on games as Ron does.
i don't know, i always thought devin would be the perfect point for the triangle. imo he would have a major impact, but of course the lakers bench takes a MAJOR hit. factor in the lakers would probably have to offer another piece, it makes the bench even thinner. in that aspect, yes i guess devin coming would be a negative impact if ron were sent out. to be honest, i haven't caught too many laker games this season cause i am too poor to purchase nba league pass so maybe i'm not meantto speak on this. but lets be real, the nets don't want artest, if they traded devin, they are shedding salary so that would be a no-no to ron. but can u imagine how pissed artest would be if he were shipped out? lol. i think he'd go postal on the org.

[LJJ]

Devin Harris the perfect triangle point? He can't shoot.

[TheGreatDeraj]

What hook am I on? You have yet to defend yourself. I am laughing at you guys for being off the ball. Instead of debating Harris vs Cap space, you are debating Harris vs John Wall :roll: :roll: . And there is no guarantee that the Nets will get Wall! :roll:

My prior post is to educate you what the Nets are considering. Trade for expirings now (ammo+farmar) to get 2 max FAs. And the trade has to go down before the deadline. And stop bringing up John Wall arguing that he's an inferior replacement for Harris. John Wall is a bonus, he isn't the reason for the trade at all.

Just look under his Username. He is a known troll that doesn't believe what he says. He says things for attention and to create controversy. Don't worry about him.

Harris is obviously a talent upgrade, but the Lakers need a PG that can shoot/defend and a bench scorer, Harris isn't really either... I wouldn't complain as long as we don't give up a starter or Odom though.

[CavsLebronMo]

Which part of cap space do you not get? It's not about John Wall, that's a bonus. It's the cap space to get 2 max FAs.

Holes at SF and PF?

PG: John Wall
SG: Courtney Lee
SF: Lebron James
PF: Chris Bosh
C: Brook Lopez

Please tell me the holes in this team. This team = championship. Not even the Lakers can stop this.

The real question to ask is: Should the Nets risk Harris to get Lebron and Bosh? Will backfire bad if they didn't get a good FA.
well there may not be a hole in that team but there is a hole in the idea of that team, considering lebron will NOT go to the Brooklyn/New Jersey Nets

[adamcz]

This would be dumb for the Nets. They ought to be in win-now mode next year, and they'll want Harris around for that.

No matter how bad they are this year, they still have a 75% chance of not getting Wall. They shouldn't be counting on Lebron or Wade, but there's a good chance that they could sign guys like Joe Johnson and Amare to max contracts, and then trade their draft pick (#3 overall?) for yet another legit all-star (Danny Granger?).

They could easily copy the Celtics' model and go from horrible to elite in one year.

They could be rolling out Harris/Johnson/Granger/Amare/Lopez and winning 60 games next season.

But instead they're going to trade Harris away for cap space that they don't need?

[KAJ=GOAT]

Marc Gasol is a top 5 center in the league right now. Also at the time of the trade Marc Gasol was having an MVP year in the ACB league. He was also starting for Spain's national team. Grizzlies knew he was basically a sure thing. At the worst they had a big 7'1 260 pound center with good work rate.


Crittenton had potential, and lottery level talent- he's 6'3, athletic and good ball handling, he could have been the next Baron Davis if he wasn't such a bonehead, but prospects don't always turn out, can't say Critt didn't have a high ceiling thoughh.


So,

why didn't the Lakers just keep them, since he was a "sure thing",

since everyone knew Gasol was going to be great? They would have paid him less money.

or, does Buss just like throwing money away?


Bottom line moron,

the trade was Kwame for Pau with those other guys thrown in to make it work. The Lakers obviously didn't think all that much of him, since they

traded him as a "make it work piece".

[wang4three]

A star would probably be strongly against playing with Courtney Lee. He is the definition of chucker, it is sad but true.


I have no idea what Kiki is doing letting him dribble around everywhere and taking whatever shot he wants.

[wang4three]

This would be dumb for the Nets. They ought to be in win-now mode next year, and they'll want Harris around for that.

No matter how bad they are this year, they still have a 75% chance of not getting Wall. They shouldn't be counting on Lebron or Wade, but there's a good chance that they could sign guys like Joe Johnson and Amare to max contracts, and then trade their draft pick (#3 overall?) for yet another legit all-star (Danny Granger?).

They could easily copy the Celtics' model and go from horrible to elite in one year.

They could be rolling out Harris/Johnson/Granger/Amare/Lopez and winning 60 games next season.

But instead they're going to trade Harris away for cap space that they don't need?

Bingo.

[TryToBeUnbias]

Devin Harris the perfect triangle point? He can't shoot.
thats what I was thinking. Even though we can develop his shooting like we did with ariza

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

thats what I was thinking. Even though we can develop his shooting like we did with ariza

eh my opinion is a little biased toward last season when he was putting up big numbers for the nets. but he wan't consistent. we're def not seeing the same devin/numbers this season. perhaps that all changes in a lakers uniform. who knows..

[cotdt]

thats what I was thinking. Even though we can develop his shooting like we did with ariza

He would shoot 50% from long range if he plays for the Lakers. These things just happen when you have some of the best trainers in the world and have teammates that get you open shots.

[Pinkhearts]

I don't think you're doing that, but I'll indulge in your supposed "facts".

Of course I have not been doing that. I'm just steering you idiots in the right direction for now. So far I've only provided some reason why they would do this.



Hmm Miami or New Jersey...
Hmm yea Miami can sign allll the FAs. Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Boozer, JJ will all go there. There is no 2 more players the Nets can get. How sad.




Like I said, this is no walk in the park to get done. You have to have two SUPERSTARS agree to simultaneously do this. We're not talking about getting guys past their primes like Karl Malone and Payton. We're talking about two stars to join after what will be historically worst teams of all time. What reasons do they have to join? LeBron is already on one of the best teams in the league, what incentives is there to start all over new in New Jersey? Just to play with Bosh/Amare/Wade when he's already having 60 win seasons? Not to mention how long it will take take for him to gel with teammates, new coaching staff, and playing style. Asking LeBron to take this risk just seems very stupid.

No walk in the park for sure. If it is easy, we wouldn't even need to be discussing this. But it is the GM's job to weigh out the pros and cons and make it happen. Their franchise, their dream, the goal of their job is to put out a winning team and make money. I'm sure they'll work hard at it.

The advantage of starting fresh is obvious. Getting yourself in a team with another top player and good supporting cast. Can Cleveland provide that? They have no cap space left, no good trading assets left. Having a 60 win team is useless if you're not getting it done. If he loves Cleveland so much he would have signed an extension already. Obviously he is keeping his options open to make a best decision.



Show me an instance where this strategy has worked in the past. Where the worst team in the league cleared up space then got two of the best players in the league and changed everything. You think this is that easy?

Well let's see. Lakers got rid of Shaq, sucked for a while, then traded all their scrubs away for Pau and then signed Artest. The only players they have left of their sucking years other than Kobe are bench players.

Celtics aren't doing too bad. Pierce was about to leave, then they signed Ray Allen to keep him. After that Boston became real attractive for Garnett to consider being traded there. Then ring time.

Of course an opportunity like this won't happen every year. You don't get a bumper crop of free agents like that every season. This is once in a lifetime. This is why several teams have taken the route of freeing cap space to land superstars and why there are still teams looking to do it.


Brook Lopez and the possibility of John Wall would be the only lure as far as teammates go. Courtney Lee? That guy is nothing more than a role player. I don't think any star right now is like, "I get to play with Courtney Lee!!!"

I've already said that the biggest lure is the second max free agent. It's not everyday a team can offer a superstar to play with you. And playing in a team where Courtney Lee will be 5th option? WOW! That's stacked! Look at the Lakers. They are so stacked Artest took a paycut to come play for them. Why wouldn't they be attractive?

[OG LeeTSkeeT]

although this would be good i dont get why the nets would deal with the lakers when they can get a way better deal with another team

[LA_Showtime]

Devin Harris is trash. The Lakers should go after Chris Paul. They have the expiring contracts to get him. Adam Morrison, DJ MBenga, Jordan Farmar, and Sasha Vujacic for CP3. The Lakers get a solid point guard and the Hornets get cap space and a future all-star point guard in Jordan Farmar.

If you think I'm being serious you are a moron. Don't edit your post, *****.

[thejusman1]

Devin Harris wouldn't fit in too well... like others have said, he needs a high volume of shots to be productive and is more of a shoot-first, pass-second PG. I'm holding out hope that Arenas' contract is voided and the Lakers sign him to the veteran's minimum next year.

[Allstar24]

Is Devin Harris the new Kirk Hinrich? I know Laker fans were obsessed with getting Hinrich for some time and then gave up on it eventually :confusedshrug:

[LA_Showtime]

Is Devin Harris the new Kirk Hinrich? I know Laker fans were obsessed with getting Hinrich for some time and then gave up on it eventually :confusedshrug:

Hell no. While Devin Harris is a solid prospect, he doesn't fit the triangle. He's only a so-so shooter, isn't a playmaker, and his defense has really slipped. He would definitely add another slasher to the team, but I don't think he'd be effective with Kobe/Gasol/Bynum/Odom/etc demanding the ball.

[Lakers13]

Is Devin Harris the new Kirk Hinrich? I know Laker fans were obsessed with getting Hinrich for some time and then gave up on it eventually :confusedshrug:


I still prefer Hinrich, but since The Bulls are playing well since they start him at SG, they are less likely to deal him now.

[wang4three]

Of course I have not been doing that. I'm just steering you idiots in the right direction for now. So far I've only provided some reason why they would do this.


This is a thread in on an internet forum. Get your pretentious "get you guys on the right direction" attitude out of here. This isn't a discussion or formal debate.



Hmm yea Miami can sign allll the FAs. Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Boozer, JJ will all go there. There is no 2 more players the Nets can get. How sad.


Once again you're acting like this is easy to do. If we miss at LeBron and Bosh and it's reported, how much do you think Amare, Boozer, and JJ will like being considered plan B or plan C? You really have only 1 shot once the free agency season begins.



No walk in the park for sure. If it is easy, we wouldn't even need to be discussing this. But it is the GM's job to weigh out the pros and cons and make it happen. Their franchise, their dream, the goal of their job is to put out a winning team and make money. I'm sure they'll work hard at it.

So that's your rationale? Cause there is so much more that can go wrong no matter how hard you work.


The advantage of starting fresh is obvious. Getting yourself in a team with another top player and good supporting cast. Can Cleveland provide that? They have no cap space left, no good trading assets left. Having a 60 win team is useless if you're not getting it done. If he loves Cleveland so much he would have signed an extension already. Obviously he is keeping his options open to make a best decision.

Starting new is fine, but do you want to start from the lowest point possible? It's not like New Jersey is his only available starting point or for the others.


Well let's see. Lakers got rid of Shaq, sucked for a while, then traded all their scrubs away for Pau and then signed Artest. The only players they have left of their sucking years other than Kobe are bench players.

Oh so you think we have a Kobe-like player to build around. That's says enough for me. Also, never compare the Nets to the Lakers. No disrespect to my beloved Jersey, the Nets are not the Lakers and so our capabilities should be built on what they have done and what they can do. We just can't till we establish the same sort of credibility as the Lakers which will take decades of work to do.



Celtics aren't doing too bad. Pierce was about to leave, then they signed Ray Allen to keep him. After that Boston became real attractive for Garnett to consider being traded there. Then ring time.

That's a fine comparsion, but they built by using the draft, not by signing players by using cap space.



Of course an opportunity like this won't happen every year. You don't get a bumper crop of free agents like that every season. This is once in a lifetime. This is why several teams have taken the route of freeing cap space to land superstars and why there are still teams looking to do it.

Fair enough, but I've been a fan of New Jersey for a long time. I've seen many free agents pass up on us and I just do not consider this a prudent decision given our past. We're not LA, we're not NY, we're New Jersey. We may be able to attract one star here who's looking for max money and no one else is willing to give them one. Overall, I just think depleting our talent just for cap space and just for the opportunity is just a ridiculous gamble that we cannot convert.



I've already said that the biggest lure is the second max free agent. It's not everyday a team can offer a superstar to play with you. And playing in a team where Courtney Lee will be 5th option? WOW! That's stacked! Look at the Lakers. They are so stacked Artest took a paycut to come play for them. Why wouldn't they be attractive?


We. are. not. LA. For the rules of free agency do not apply for LA. LA is the only place people are willing to take ridiculous pay cuts to play for. New Jersey? They're gonna demand the world and we're going to have to appease to. So don't use LA as an example here.

[Pinkhearts]

This is a thread in on an internet forum. Get your pretentious "get you guys on the right direction" attitude out of here. This isn't a discussion or formal debate.

Go back a few pages and see what is being discussed. People were saying Nets shouldn't trade Devin Harris because John Wall isn't as good as him.:roll: You're telling me that isn't totally off track? I'm being pretentious when I'm pointing out that this comparison is ridiculous and that this is last last thing the Nets are worrying about? So it's a bad attitude to educate people the true reason why the Nets will even consider such a trade? I suppose you prefer trollish threads started by PB now rather than intelligent discussion with calculated facts.


Once again you're acting like this is easy to do. If we miss at LeBron and Bosh and it's reported, how much do you think Amare, Boozer, and JJ will like being considered plan B or plan C? You really have only 1 shot once the free agency season begins.

Look back at my posts again. Not once did I say it is easy. I said it is possible and is the reason for the Nets to do this trade. Not to make space for John Wall. I'm trying to encourage active discussion into this direction, to investigate whether it is worthwhile to do this. I did not even say that the Nets should do this! Devin Harris is an All-Star in his own right and should have his own draw power. There could be more conservative ways to get better without gambling it all in cap space. If I could get the retards to stop talking about John Wall and start considering the cap space possibilities, we could find out all of the Nets options and find out their best move.

What are your contributions to this thread?


So that's your rationale? Cause there is so much more that can go wrong no matter how hard you work.

What's my rationale? That the Nets front office should work hard analyzing all their options and choose a strategy, then work their hardest to make their plan happen. That's how we do things in life. You aren't a very successful person are you? It seems that you're the sort to give up working hard on your possibilities for success to take the safe route because "there is so much more that can go wrong no matter how hard you work."



Starting new is fine, but do you want to start from the lowest point possible? It's not like New Jersey is his only available starting point or for the others.

That's what I'm trying to find out. Right now this looks like a very plausible and very exciting option that the Nets can take. Everything that I posted validates that this is a plausible option with potentially high returns. I did not say this is the smartest move out of all the moves they can make. I was hoping that people will discuss about it and find that out instead of John Wall.

And no you are not going to sucker me into arguing that the Nets must do this. I'm not the Nets GM, nor do I care about the Nets at all. I can't be assed to all the work to keep myself up to date with the free agent situation and all of the Nets options to make a proper argument. That's what I'm trying to get you people to do. That's why I pointed out the Nets will be doing this for cap space for this possibility, and not for John ****ing Wall.




Oh so you think we have a Kobe-like player to build around. That's says enough for me. Also, never compare the Nets to the Lakers. No disrespect to my beloved Jersey, the Nets are not the Lakers and so our capabilities should be built on what they have done and what they can do. We just can't till we establish the same sort of credibility as the Lakers which will take decades of work to do.

This shows another crutch in your mentality. It's not right believe that your team is less capable than the Lakers and cannot hope for success that the Lakers enjoy. All NBA teams should be the same anyway. If you can fork out the money the Lakers forked out, work as hard as the Lakers and do what the Lakers did, success will come your way. You cannot be a very successful person if you think you are less capable than others and refuse to work as hard and take the risks that successful people take.



That's a fine comparsion, but they built by using the draft, not by signing players by using cap space.

Well Lakers rebuilt their team for 2000 by breaking up their team, signing Shaq and then let their young players (Kobe) grow into the team and become a success. Nets can hope to do the same by signing an FA or two and letting their youngsters grow into All star talents.




Fair enough, but I've been a fan of New Jersey for a long time. I've seen many free agents pass up on us and I just do not consider this a prudent decision given our past. We're not LA, we're not NY, we're New Jersey. We may be able to attract one star here who's looking for max money and no one else is willing to give them one. Overall, I just think depleting our talent just for cap space and just for the opportunity is just a ridiculous gamble that we cannot convert.

Which is why you need to figure out why players pass on your team and try hard to fix the problem. Promising another max FA and success is a good option to attract the top FAs. Whether you like it or not, the Nets are already going down that route trading away Jefferson and Vince. The question now is whether it is prudent to throw away such a good talent like Harris for that second FA option.



We. are. not. LA. For the rules of free agency do not apply for LA. LA is the only place people are willing to take ridiculous pay cuts to play for. New Jersey? They're gonna demand the world and we're going to have to appease to. So don't use LA as an example here.

Hah. The rules of free agency are the same for every team. The reason why people take a pay cut to join LA is because they're doing something right and are being successful which attract people to come. If you keep believing that you are unfairly handicapped, you have no chance to beat those teams you are unreasonably jealous over. Orlando has no problem attracting Vince to be traded there did they? Boston did some work before Garnett decided to over there didn't they? It's all smart planning and hard work which made these teams successful. LA is not a magical place that charms people to take paycuts.

[InspiredLebowski]

Die dumb thread die!

[Story Up]

Hinrich is a better fit for LA even though I think he's exceptionally overrated; he does play defense which something Devin does not do and we do not need a scoring PG beside Kobe anyways.

Tyrus Thomas & Kirk Hinrich for Andrew Bynum intrigues me; or perhaps Josh Smith & Mike Bibby for Andrew Bynum & Jordan Farmar?

I would love that trade the most.

Gasol, J.Smith, Artest, Bryant, Bibby; 6th man - Odom.
The defense would be insane and we'd have no weaknesses whatsoever in our starting five.

[wang4three]

What are your contributions to this thread?

Unfortunately unlike you, I don't go thinking this way. But continue, it's funny how seriously you take all this and how much pride you get from "steering a thread in the right direction" on an internet forum. It's ever so entertaining.



What's my rationale? That the Nets front office should work hard analyzing all their options and choose a strategy, then work their hardest to make their plan happen. That's how we do things in life.

Yes, and this is not the plan they should take.


You aren't a very successful person are you? It seems that you're the sort to give up working hard on your possibilities for success to take the safe route because "there is so much more that can go wrong no matter how hard you work."

There is a fine line between working hard and working stupid. A difference between what's attainable and what's a dream. What you're proposing has never to my knowledge been done in the NBA and you've yet provide a credible example where it has happened.


That's what I'm trying to find out. Right now this looks like a very plausible and very exciting option that the Nets can take. Everything that I posted validates that this is a plausible option with potentially high returns. I did not say this is the smartest move out of all the moves they can make. I was hoping that people will discuss about it and find that out instead of John Wall.

Sure it's an exciting and possibly an enticing option, but probability and history is not on our side and most likely it wouldn't work out the way we planned.



And no you are not going to sucker me into arguing that the Nets must do this. I'm not the Nets GM, nor do I care about the Nets at all. I can't be assed to all the work to keep myself up to date with the free agent situation and all of the Nets options to make a proper argument. That's what I'm trying to get you people to do. That's why I pointed out the Nets will be doing this for cap space for this possibility, and not for John ****ing Wall.

If you don't know the situation, nor the facts, then stop posting and acting like you know.




This shows another crutch in your mentality. It's not right believe that your team is less capable than the Lakers and cannot hope for success that the Lakers enjoy. All NBA teams should be the same anyway. If you can fork out the money the Lakers forked out, work as hard as the Lakers and do what the Lakers did, success will come your way. You cannot be a very successful person if you think you are less capable than others and refuse to work as hard and take the risks that successful people take.

I don't believe that you can become the Lakers overnight. You seem to think that the Nets can overnight become a super powerhouse. I believe in taking moderate steps in the right direction and paying your dues which the Nets are doing. We've been a poor team for the last 3 seasons and we're slowly building ourselves to become a power house again. That's what I believe in. You cannot be successful yourself if you think success can be built in a short amount of time. These things have to be attained slowly and methodically, not through irrationality and gigantic gambles.



Well Lakers rebuilt their team for 2000 by breaking up their team, signing Shaq and then let their young players (Kobe) grow into the team and become a success. Nets can hope to do the same by signing an FA or two and letting their youngsters grow into All star talents.

That's one free agent, you're proposing 2 Big ones. I want to see an example like that. I'm already on board with having a young team and signing a big free agent next season. Now signing two big free agents? That's something I am very precarious about.




Which is why you need to figure out why players pass on your team and try hard to fix the problem. Promising another max FA and success is a good option to attract the top FAs. Whether you like it or not, the Nets are already going down that route trading away Jefferson and Vince. The question now is whether it is prudent to throw away such a good talent like Harris for that second FA option.

I know this, I support this. I don't support trading away Harris for next to nothing on the gamble that it will attract another big name superstar. Lets face it that's a tough proposition and a tough sell.




Hah. The rules of free agency are the same for every team. The reason why people take a pay cut to join LA is because they're doing something right and are being successful which attract people to come. If you keep believing that you are unfairly handicapped, you have no chance to beat those teams you are unreasonably jealous over. Orlando has no problem attracting Vince to be traded there did they? Boston did some work before Garnett decided to over there didn't they? It's all smart planning and hard work which made these teams successful. LA is not a magical place that charms people to take paycuts.

So it'll be easier to attract them without our All-Star guard. Yup.

[Pinkhearts]

Unfortunately unlike you, I don't go thinking this way. But continue, it's funny how seriously you take all this and how much pride you get from "steering a thread in the right direction" on an internet forum. It's ever so entertaining.

Yeah, I guess I take pride in using logic to make sense of things and making my decisions. It's much better than pulling **** out from your mouth which you take pride in. I guess that's really more entertaining seeing PB's bull**** "I will leave SRK if the Cavs lose" thread getting so many views. Bull**** is entertaining.



Yes, and this is not the plan they should take.

Seeing that you don't do much planning and working hard in life, yeah I can tell you would think that.


There is a fine line between working hard and working stupid. A difference between what's attainable and what's a dream. What you're proposing has never to my knowledge been done in the NBA and you've yet provide a credible example where it has happened.

Everything starts from a dream. A kid dreaming of becoming a doctor. A pilot. An astronaut. Then he busts his ass studying to get there. So being a doctor is really hard, people who stay in the library till late to study and try to become a doctor are stupid too? Why do you think it is unattainable? Have you tried doing it or worked out the odds showing that it's not in your favour? I've given you an example of the Lakers signing Shaq and then developing their young players into All-stars already. I'll give you another one.

3 seasons ago, Boston sucked and finished 2nd last in the league. They absolutely sucked and their best player wanted to leave. When they failed to secure Durant and Oden, people thought they were goners for sure. The team owners decided to gut their team's future and trading them for veteran players. At first, nobody wanted to be near that loser squad. But Boston managed to persuade Ray Allen to sign by showing him their ambition by going after Garnett. Garnett, seeing that Allen had signed, was convinced that the Celtics are winners and signed too. With Garnett and Allen secured, their best player Pierce didn't want to leave anymore. And a championship happened. This is how overnight, a loser team with the 2nd worst record became champions next season.


Sure it's an exciting and possibly an enticing option, but probability and history is not on our side and most likely it wouldn't work out the way we planned.

Probability? That's what I wanted to investigate in this thread. You have yet to work out the odds, and you're saying probability is not on your side? These free agents all have to end up somewhere, so have you worked out which team is the most desirable for Lebron or Bosh to go to? Of course you will have no history when you are historically a loser. I guess you will continue being a loser since your history shows that you are one eh?



If you don't know the situation, nor the facts, then stop posting and acting like you know.

There is no part in any of my posts where I am acting like I know something. Everything I said is 100% fact which I put out for people to consider and use to help predict what is going to happen. I didn't even make any predictions like saying Nets will shop Harris for sure or something that I don't know.



I don't believe that you can become the Lakers overnight. You seem to think that the Nets can overnight become a super powerhouse. I believe in taking moderate steps in the right direction and paying your dues which the Nets are doing. We've been a poor team for the last 3 seasons and we're slowly building ourselves to become a power house again. That's what I believe in. You cannot be successful yourself if you think success can be built in a short amount of time. These things have to be attained slowly and methodically, not through irrationality and gigantic gambles.

Trust me the Nets aren't in the position they are in today overnight. They have planned and traded away their players the past few seasons and not taken on any crazy salary to have the cap and young talent they have today. The question is whether trading Harris is another step they want to take. To think that they aren't trying for a good FA is ridiculous.


That's one free agent, you're proposing 2 Big ones. I want to see an example like that. I'm already on board with having a young team and signing a big free agent next season. Now signing two big free agents? That's something I am very precarious about.

So one is possible, but 2 will suddenly be impossible? Did you get me when I told you that attracting 2 is easier than attracting one? But the downside is you are risking what you have.



I know this, I support this. I don't support trading away Harris for next to nothing on the gamble that it will attract another big name superstar. Lets face it that's a tough proposition and a tough sell.

I'm not sure if you know this. If you fear not being to attract a good FA so much, why would you support trading away Kidd, Jefferson and Vince and causing your team to become so pathetic as they are today? If you support this, you obviously support the Nets rebuilding with cap space. This is just a step in the plan that will gut the team further to get more space to rebuild. I am not saying that this is definitely the best move, but if you do not even entertain it and weigh out the odds you certainly are not thinking along the same lines of what you say you support.



So it'll be easier to attract them without our All-Star guard. Yup.

Seeing that he isn't doing anything right now, and that his contract can bring in a superstar, it will certainly be easier.

I notice you are leaving more and more of my posts out. Can't logically think of a proper answer to them? I'm still doing my best to answer every single point that you can make. Don't be shy with any queries you might have.

[wang4three]

Yeah, I guess I take pride in using logic to make sense of things and making my decisions. It's much better than pulling **** out from your mouth which you take pride in. I guess that's really more entertaining seeing PB's bull**** "I will leave SRK if the Cavs lose" thread getting so many views. Bull**** is entertaining.

I have him on ignore.



Seeing that you don't do much planning and working hard in life, yeah I can tell you would think that.

Talk about bull**** and running your mouth on **** you don't know.



Everything starts from a dream. A kid dreaming of becoming a doctor. A pilot. An astronaut. Then he busts his ass studying to get there. So being a doctor is really hard, people who stay in the library till late to study and try to become a doctor are stupid too?

Save your romanticism for someone who actually cares. Talk about going off topic and being irrelevant.



Why do you think it is unattainable? Have you tried doing it or worked out the odds showing that it's not in your favour? I've given you an example of the Lakers signing Shaq and then developing their young players into All-stars already.

Because it hasn't happen and players have already commented on how it'd be hard for them to come to New Jersey after the season we're having. Go get your facts in line.

Joe Johnson:
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/01/07/winning-will-factor-into-joe-johnsons-decision/

Chris Bosh has no sympathy for our losses:
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2009/12/toronto_raptors_chris_bosh_can.html

There are more and it's stupid when players are all but dismissing the idea. The odds are stacked against us. You said you don't care about NJ or follow the free agency. Your credibility is already lost from that statement. So sit your ass down and take it from someone who has stake in both: THE ODDS ARE AGAINST US.


3 seasons ago, Boston sucked and finished 2nd last in the league. They absolutely sucked and their best player wanted to leave. When they failed to secure Durant and Oden, people thought they were goners for sure. The team owners decided to gut their team's future and trading them for veteran players. At first, nobody wanted to be near that loser squad. But Boston managed to persuade Ray Allen to sign by showing him their ambition by going after Garnett.

Talk about not following a thing. I'm convinced you don't even follow the NBA and for all your "stop talking out of your ass" you're doing it yourself. Boston traded their top 5 pick (eventual Jeff Green), Delonte West, and Wally Z for Ray Allen. They didn't sign him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2920183


Garnett, seeing that Allen had signed, was convinced that the Celtics are winners and signed too. With Garnett and Allen secured, their best player Pierce didn't want to leave anymore. And a championship happened. This is how overnight, a loser team with the 2nd worst record became champions next season.

Once again the Celtics dealt their young talent for Garnett. This does not prove your point at all. He was not signed.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/press073107-garnett.html

What the Celtics did is actually a counter point of what you're trying to say. They traded away their young talent for veterans to lead their team rather than retain them to lure free agents.



Probability? That's what I wanted to investigate in this thread. You have yet to work out the odds, and you're saying probability is not on your side? These free agents all have to end up somewhere, so have you worked out which team is the most desirable for Lebron or Bosh to go to? Of course you will have no history when you are historically a loser. I guess you will continue being a loser since your history shows that you are one eh?

Why don't you investigate your own examples before you use them then I'll go doing the leg work for the odds? Cause you obviously haven't even tried to be correct in any of your examples.


Trust me the Nets aren't in the position they are in today overnight. They have planned and traded away their players the past few seasons and not taken on any crazy salary to have the cap and young talent they have today. The question is whether trading Harris is another step they want to take. To think that they aren't trying for a good FA is ridiculous.

Where have I said they're not trying for a good free agent? All I said is that trying for 2 BIG Free agents is an almost impossible feat which is a gamble I don't want to see them get.


So one is possible, but 2 will suddenly be impossible? Did you get me when I told you that attracting 2 is easier than attracting one? But the downside is you are risking what you have.

2 is impossible because 1 is tough enough. I don't see how two is easier than one. You haven't proved that with any sort of example that made sense.


I'm not sure if you know this. If you fear not being to attract a good FA so much, why would you support trading away Kidd, Jefferson and Vince and causing your team to become so pathetic as they are today?

The time of Kidd, Jefferson, and Vince was over. They had their shot and it's time to move them along as we build for the future. However, this doesn't mean to go crazy and just trade away every single asset we have. It means smart, calculated moves which is what we have done. To trade Devin away for next to nothing on the hopes that we can find two superstars? Especially when the bigger names in the free agency have all but dismissed the possibility of coming here? How much risk can you take?



If you support this, you obviously support the Nets rebuilding with cap space. This is just a step in the plan that will gut the team further to get more space to rebuild. I am not saying that this is definitely the best move, but if you do not even entertain it and weigh out the odds you certainly are not thinking along the same lines of what you say you support.

Don't try to do this logical reasoning cause you're not going anywhere. Like I've said 100000x times, there is a point of being too extreme in clearing space. I've been on board and you can go find my posts from 2008 if you want, I like where we're going and this is the right way to do it. For Vince, Kidd, and RJ we've gotten talent back. It may sometimes be less than stellar talent (Courtney Lee), but talent nonetheless. So this isn't just a step in the plan. This is essentially gambling.



Seeing that he isn't doing anything right now, and that his contract can bring in a superstar, it will certainly be easier.

"Certainly?" "Easier?" And you ask why I think you think this will be an easy task. People know Devin by now. He was a former All-Star and they know he has been hobbling through some injuries. LeBron is good friends with Devin and so is Bosh. Trading him away doesn't make us look more attractive.



I notice you are leaving more and more of my posts out. Can't logically think of a proper answer to them? I'm still doing my best to answer every single point that you can make. Don't be shy with any queries you might have.

Because they're irrelevant and I'd become redundant, like you certainly are.

[Andrei89]

Lakers suck

No more championships for them

bye kobe old fart

[crisoner]

Lakers suck

No more championships for them

bye kobe old fart


Wow...your probably 12 years old aren't you?

[Pinkhearts]

I have him on ignore.
Well maybe you should take him out since you enjoy nonsensical rants without logic.


Talk about bull**** and running your mouth on **** you don't know.

Well I didn't know before I but have good idea now judging from your last few posts. Obviously a guy who doesn't plan, evaluate options and work hard in life. Would you like to defend yourself by telling us which college you are in, what are you majoring in or what profession you are in now?




Save your romanticism for someone who actually cares. Talk about going off topic and being irrelevant.

Of course, anybody can tell that that was romanticism to you. You have no idea how people think and work hard to become successful, it is something that you don't care about.


Because it hasn't happen and players have already commented on how it'd be hard for them to come to New Jersey after the season we're having. Go get your facts in line.

Joe Johnson:
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/01/07/winning-will-factor-into-joe-johnsons-decision/

Chris Bosh has no sympathy for our losses:
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2009/12/toronto_raptors_chris_bosh_can.html

Think about it. The players say that it is hard for them to come to NJ because they are a loser team. These guys are in loser teams and are sick of it, and they feel no pity for NJ. So do you want to bank on your loser players to attract these free agents, or do you want to offer them some light by promising them high level help and success?


There are more and it's stupid when players are all but dismissing the idea. The odds are stacked against us. You said you don't care about NJ or follow the free agency. Your credibility is already lost from that statement. So sit your ass down and take it from someone who has stake in both: THE ODDS ARE AGAINST US.

The players are dismissing the idea of coming to a loser team. Which shows that the Nets should buck up quick and offer something new. You somehow know the odds without even thinking about it? Well that shows how much control you have over your own life! Even a guy like me who doesn't care about the nets can think independently and come to logical conclusions.

Let's indulge in your thinking for a minute. So, the nets are screwed, no free agent wants to come to losing NJ. So, what's the use of all the cap space that your management has worked so hard for? I feel sorry for you Nets fans!! Your management gutted away your decent team of Kidd, Jefferson and Carter so that you can endure the worst NBA team in history. Then next season they are going to sign Rudy Gay and Tyrus and call it a day! Then you can continue sucking!:roll: Some great management you have! What will you give to have a management like the Lakers who will take bold calculated risks?


Talk about not following a thing. I'm convinced you don't even follow the NBA and for all your "stop talking out of your ass" you're doing it yourself. Boston traded their top 5 pick (eventual Jeff Green), Delonte West, and Wally Z for Ray Allen. They didn't sign him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2920183

Once again the Celtics dealt their young talent for Garnett. This does not prove your point at all. He was not signed.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/press073107-garnett.html

What the Celtics did is actually a counter point of what you're trying to say. They traded away their young talent for veterans to lead their team rather than retain them to lure free agents.

So trading your young players for great players is very different from dumping your young players to sign great players now? Boston lost their pick and talent to get Ray Allen, which lead to the championship. So the Nets losing their talented pg to get a max FA is a bad thing now?

How is this countering what I am trying to say? So in your mind the only way to get talent is through a trade? Lebron and all the FAs aren't bound by contracts like those guys are. you don't have to trade someone back to get them. You can just take them by making space. But you have to give up what you have to make the space though.


Why don't you investigate your own examples before you use them then I'll go doing the leg work for the odds? Cause you obviously haven't even tried to be correct in any of your examples.

Well it is clear that you are not able think logically to seek the proper outcome that you desire. Hence your analysis of the odds will be terrible. You will probably give yourself stupid rules like "Oh it must be a straight sign up." "There can be no trades." "We can't use the draft!" or something stupid along those lines to restrict yourself. I do not trust your uneducated ass at all.



Where have I said they're not trying for a good free agent? All I said is that trying for 2 BIG Free agents is an almost impossible feat which is a gamble I don't want to see them get.

2 is impossible because 1 is tough enough. I don't see how two is easier than one. You haven't proved that with any sort of example that made sense.

Again, you have no idea how things work. 2 is impossible because 1 is tough enough? LOL. Do you know that it is easier to buy a bunch of grapes than it is to buy a single grape? Do you know that it is often easier to persuade a group of friends to go to a party together than it is to get a single person to go? Sometimes getting many is easier.

I have already told you many times, having a second max FA space gives the FAs some hope. You already proved that no one wants to come to a loser team that has no chance of winning. Having a top player come along with you gives you hope that you can win it all. Do see how two is easier than one now? Or do you need more explanation?


The time of Kidd, Jefferson, and Vince was over. They had their shot and it's time to move them along as we build for the future. However, this doesn't mean to go crazy and just trade away every single asset we have. It means smart, calculated moves which is what we have done. To trade Devin away for next to nothing on the hopes that we can find two superstars? Especially when the bigger names in the free agency have all but dismissed the possibility of coming here? How much risk can you take?

Why have Vince and co move along when your team is doomed for failure anyway? They are the worst team in history now, and they can't attract talent. Might as well keep them and win some games right?

Why can't trading Harris be a smart calculated move? Just because you didn't do the calculations doesn't mean it cannot be smart.



Don't try to do this logical reasoning cause you're not going anywhere. Like I've said 100000x times, there is a point of being too extreme in clearing space. I've been on board and you can go find my posts from 2008 if you want, I like where we're going and this is the right way to do it. For Vince, Kidd, and RJ we've gotten talent back. It may sometimes be less than stellar talent (Courtney Lee), but talent nonetheless. So this isn't just a step in the plan. This is essentially gambling.

I'm going nowhere because your uneducated mind is incapable of dealing with proper logic and reasoning. You can't wrap your mind around the fact that the opportunity to land other FAs has tangible value. In your mind, throwing a player a way = crazy. Trading for someone back = not as bad. But you fail to see the consequence of the trade other than the player you are getting back.



"Certainly?" "Easier?" And you ask why I think you think this will be an easy task. People know Devin by now. He was a former All-Star and they know he has been hobbling through some injuries. LeBron is good friends with Devin and so is Bosh. Trading him away doesn't make us look more attractive.

You said yourself that no player will want to come to NJ with Devin because they suck. I say if they can get another max FA to come, they wouldn't suck and will be more attractive. So what's your plan to get a FA now?


Because they're irrelevant and I'd become redundant, like you certainly are.

They might seem redundant to you because you fail to understand them. If you work a little harder and think those things through, you might learn something and become a better person.

[wang4three]

Well maybe you should take him out since you enjoy nonsensical rants without logic.

Once again with your irrational insults.



Well I didn't know before I but have good idea now judging from your last few posts. Obviously a guy who doesn't plan, evaluate options and work hard in life. Would you like to defend yourself by telling us which college you are in, what are you majoring in or what profession you are in now?

I don't need to prove myself to some random e-thugging forum junkie. But please go ahead with more bull**** rather than addressing the subject.



Think about it. The players say that it is hard for them to come to NJ because they are a loser team. These guys are in loser teams and are sick of it, and they feel no pity for NJ. So do you want to bank on your loser players to attract these free agents, or do you want to offer them some light by promising them high level help and success?

It's almost comical how much back pedaling you've done as your "argument" progressed. At first you asked for links to prove that the stars were not big on NJ. I've provided them. I've showed you why. Now you still dismiss it on this principle that doesn't make any sense.

Not even that, if you look at history of New Jersey for the past 6 years, management has done nothing in promising more help to our stars. Instead they've only cost cutted in efforts to build a stadium that when first proposed was supposed to open up in 2010. They haven't even broke ground yet. But what we have seen was the breaking up of a Finals Team, trading away our bigger contracts, and signing lesser players for minimum. Management has not shown any real effort in promising success. Everything, everything has pointed more towards the direction that saving money > the success of the team. So if you want to keep into your head that we're just gonna magically open our checkbooks not once, but twice at the maximum possible, when everything we've done has been counter to that including times we were succeeding, then who really is being logical?



The players are dismissing the idea of coming to a loser team. Which shows that the Nets should buck up quick and offer something new. You somehow know the odds without even thinking about it? Well that shows how much control you have over your own life! Even a guy like me who doesn't care about the nets can think independently and come to logical conclusions.

I've done nothing but provide actual statements by players, actual reasoning. I feel like you're being irrationally. You still haven't provided an example to prove that two superstars in their prime have ponied up and play for a NEW franchise. Where is your logic? Where in past history has something like this ever been possible? Where have you seen anyone say, "I want to start brand new, regardless of wins or losses."



Let's indulge in your thinking for a minute. So, the nets are screwed, no free agent wants to come to losing NJ.

That's not my thinking; do not put words my mouth.


So, what's the use of all the cap space that your management has worked so hard for?

I don't get why this is so hard for you to comprehend. I have not said New Jersey is doomed. I have not said that NO ONE will sign with New Jersey. All I've said that signing one superstar is going to be hard enough but its very doable. Signing two superstars will be way too hard for a team like us.

Why is it so hard to see that?




So trading your young players for great players is very different from dumping your young players to sign great players now? Boston lost their pick and talent to get Ray Allen, which lead to the championship. So the Nets losing their talented pg to get a max FA is a bad thing now?

Yes. Are you really incapable of seeing the difference? When you trade for someone, they have to still fill out their contract. Ray Allen had no choice but to play for Boston. Now if he's a free agent, he could've gone somewhere else. Do you not know the difference between trading for a player and signing a player?


How is this countering what I am trying to say? So in your mind the only way to get talent is through a trade?

No, but I guess being wrong is something you're getting quite used to. It's counter because what you're proposing is signing two superstars to the Nets. Do you not know the difference of signing two superstars and trading two superstars? They're two different methods of acquiring players.



Lebron and all the FAs aren't bound by contracts like those guys are. you don't have to trade someone back to get them. You can just take them by making space. But you have to give up what you have to make the space though.

Yes; so your example of Boston doesn't work.


Well it is clear that you are not able think logically to seek the proper outcome that you desire. Hence your analysis of the odds will be terrible. You will probably give yourself stupid rules like "Oh it must be a straight sign up." "There can be no trades." "We can't use the draft!" or something stupid along those lines to restrict yourself. I do not trust your uneducated ass at all.

Keep with the insults at the author instead of the argument. You haven't provided any examples, any statements, or any sort of evidence or credibility to your argument. Instead you cling on to these insults at me as your only way of communicating. Keep it up, you must be really happy to be where you are in life since you're supposedly never wrong.



Again, you have no idea how things work. 2 is impossible because 1 is tough enough? LOL. Do you know that it is easier to buy a bunch of grapes than it is to buy a single grape? Do you know that it is often easier to persuade a group of friends to go to a party together than it is to get a single person to go? Sometimes getting many is easier.

We're not talking about ****ing grapes or a party, we're talking about people's lives and families and their careers. Are ****ing retarded with that analogy?



I have already told you many times, having a second max FA space gives the FAs some hope. You already proved that no one wants to come to a loser team that has no chance of winning. Having a top player come along with you gives you hope that you can win it all. Do see how two is easier than one now? Or do you need more explanation?

IT. HAS. NEVER. BEEN. DONE. SHOW. ME. AN. EXAMPLE. OF. TWO. SUPERSTAR. FREE. AGENTS. SIGNING. WITH. A. NEW. TEAM. THAT. WAS. A. BAD. TEAM. THE. YEAR. PREVIOUSLY.

IF. IT. WAS. SO. EASY. THEN. YOU. SHOULD. BE. ABLE. TO. FIND. AN. EXAMPLE.



Why have Vince and co move along when your team is doomed for failure anyway? They are the worst team in history now, and they can't attract talent. Might as well keep them and win some games right?

Why can't trading Harris be a smart calculated move? Just because you didn't do the calculations doesn't mean it cannot be smart.

It can be if you're smart about it, not if you're just going to give him away.




I'm going nowhere because your uneducated mind is incapable of dealing with proper logic and reasoning.

You mean irrational thinking and lack of evidence.



You can't wrap your mind around the fact that the opportunity to land other FAs has tangible value.
In your mind, throwing a player a way = crazy. Trading for someone back = not as bad. But you fail to see the consequence of the trade other than the player you are getting back.

No no no no, for all the intelligence you seem to say I lack, you're sorely lacking yourself. But, I'm not surprised. You're already preset in your assumptions based on lack of evidence or knowledge of FACTS.



You said yourself that no player will want to come to NJ with Devin because they suck. I say if they can get another max FA to come, they wouldn't suck and will be more attractive. So what's your plan to get a FA now?

I did not say NO PLAYER will come to New Jersey. I said it's already hard because of the losses this season and the recent history of management. I then said it would be EVEN HARDER without Devin.



They might seem redundant to you because you fail to understand them. If you work a little harder and think those things through, you might learn something and become a better person.

And if you actually are willing to read the opinion of a person who is following the team and the market instead of proclaiming to have no information of free agency or the organization, maybe you can learn something and be an actual credible opinion.

[Pinkhearts]

Once again with your irrational insults.

It's not irrational as you had said so yourself that you do not want to see intelligent logical discussion on this board. That's why you come on an internet forum isn't it? To avoid formal debates.



I don't need to prove myself to some random e-thugging forum junkie. But please go ahead with more bull**** rather than addressing the subject.

Translation: I have nothing to show to prove my credibility so I'll just insult her and say she's bull****ting and hopefully she'll change the topic.

Who's the forum junkie with near 11k posts? You must be addicted to the forum for pretty long.


It's almost comical how much back pedaling you've done as your "argument" progressed. At first you asked for links to prove that the stars were not big on NJ. I've provided them. I've showed you why. Now you still dismiss it on this principle that doesn't make any sense.

Yet again this proves your lack of analysis and problem solving skills. When people tell you they do not want to come to your place, you find out what the problem is and try to fix it. Did your links prove that Bosh will never come to NJ ever? Did he say that he just detests the area, the team or the fans? No, all he said was that he doesn't want to lose anymore. So to win him over, you better offer some hope of success. Where's the backpedaling here?

I suppose you are the sort who gives up once you get rejected for a job interview. It shows that the company doesn't want you forever and there isn't any reason to change it right? When a girl rejects you, it shows it's hopeless for you to go after girls and there is nothing you can do to make yourself more attractive to girls right?


Not even that, if you look at history of New Jersey for the past 6 years, management has done nothing in promising more help to our stars. Instead they've only cost cutted in efforts to build a stadium that when first proposed was supposed to open up in 2010. They haven't even broke ground yet. But what we have seen was the breaking up of a Finals Team, trading away our bigger contracts, and signing lesser players for minimum. Management has not shown any real effort in promising success. Everything, everything has pointed more towards the direction that saving money > the success of the team. So if you want to keep into your head that we're just gonna magically open our checkbooks not once, but twice at the maximum possible, when everything we've done has been counter to that including times we were succeeding, then who really is being logical?

So you're saying the Nets should give up all hope. Keep the cap space and wait till the break ground and go after the free agents of 2020. That's your plan right? To save money and put up the worst team in NBA history and try to make a profit by keeping under lux tax? That's a great team to support!




I've done nothing but provide actual statements by players, actual reasoning. I feel like you're being irrationally. You still haven't provided an example to prove that two superstars in their prime have ponied up and play for a NEW franchise. Where is your logic? Where in past history has something like this ever been possible? Where have you seen anyone say, "I want to start brand new, regardless of wins or losses."


You provided statements by players without even thinking it through. And I'm irrational now? If Shaq signing on to the Lakers and Heat didn't prove to you that a crappy team signing a FA is possible, I don't know what will. If Allen and Garnett liaising to come to the same team doesn't prove that to stars can get together to the same team, nothing will.

Many teams have started brand new regardless of wins and losses. Look who's trying that now: The Miami heat and the New York Knicks.


That's not my thinking; do not put words my mouth.

Hahaha you should go back and read your own posts. You said there is no hope for the nets to land a good FA, and Boozer is your best bet. Which means you think the best case scenario is the nets signing Boozer and calling it a day and continue sucking for the rest of the decade.



I don't get why this is so hard for you to comprehend. I have not said New Jersey is doomed. I have not said that NO ONE will sign with New Jersey. All I've said that signing one superstar is going to be hard enough but its very doable. Signing two superstars will be way too hard for a team like us.

Why is it so hard to see that?

New Jersey's plan was to trade away their best players for cap space and young talent to rebuild on. If no one signs with NJ, it means their plan has failed and and their management screwed up. This also means the Nets are DOOMED to suck for at least the next half decade and try to rebuild themselves to through the draft. Assuming they can keep their players after their rookie contracts since NO ONE wants to be in NJ.



Yes. Are you really incapable of seeing the difference? When you trade for someone, they have to still fill out their contract. Ray Allen had no choice but to play for Boston. Now if he's a free agent, he could've gone somewhere else. Do you not know the difference between trading for a player and signing a player?

Looks like you still cannot wrap your head around the logic. Your goal is to try to make your goal as strong as possible. If you can get talent for free, you TAKE them. You don't give a F about the other team. Is your team so hopeless that they can't hope to attract anybody and you have to force them to play? No wonder Vince Jeff and Kidd all wanted out.


No, but I guess being wrong is something you're getting quite used to. It's counter because what you're proposing is signing two superstars to the Nets. Do you not know the difference of signing two superstars and trading two superstars? They're two different methods of acquiring players.


Yes; so your example of Boston doesn't work.


Different methods same results. If you still are unable to become a goal oriented person, you will never be a successful person.


Keep with the insults at the author instead of the argument. You haven't provided any examples, any statements, or any sort of evidence or credibility to your argument. Instead you cling on to these insults at me as your only way of communicating. Keep it up, you must be really happy to be where you are in life since you're supposedly never wrong.

I have provided plenty of case studies and logical explanation as to why this can happen. Your weak logical mind just failed to process it.

Trust me I got to where I am in life sucking it up and admitting my mistakes. Then I work hard to correct them. The change process can take years, but I'm a better person for it. I'm not admitting any mistakes here because I haven't made any.



We're not talking about ****ing grapes or a party, we're talking about people's lives and families and their careers. Are ****ing retarded with that analogy?

Once again your illogical mind fails to draw the analogy how see how things applies. I have painted simple analogies for you since you failed to understand how 2 max FAs will do better. If you even reject simple analogies without thinking them through, you are hopeless and will never figure it out.




IT. HAS. NEVER. BEEN. DONE. SHOW. ME. AN. EXAMPLE. OF. TWO. SUPERSTAR. FREE. AGENTS. SIGNING. WITH. A. NEW. TEAM. THAT. WAS. A. BAD. TEAM. THE. YEAR. PREVIOUSLY.

IF. IT. WAS. SO. EASY. THEN. YOU. SHOULD. BE. ABLE. TO. FIND. AN. EXAMPLE.

I have shown you several examples of how terrible teams have been able to reverse their fortunes overnight. It is your weak mind that fails to think for yourself and will only be able to accept the examples if things are exactly the same as the previous cases.



It can be if you're smart about it, not if you're just going to give him away.


You mean irrational thinking and lack of evidence.



No no no no, for all the intelligence you seem to say I lack, you're sorely lacking yourself. But, I'm not surprised. You're already preset in your assumptions based on lack of evidence or knowledge of FACTS.




I did not say NO PLAYER will come to New Jersey. I said it's already hard because of the losses this season and the recent history of management. I then said it would be EVEN HARDER without Devin.



And if you actually are willing to read the opinion of a person who is following the team and the market instead of proclaiming to have no information of free agency or the organization, maybe you can learn something and be an actual credible opinion.

Now you're just being repetitive without thinking and answering the points I have made.

I suggest you go back, read all the posts and start thinking things through. If you want to argue that the Nets should keep Harris, there are better ways to do it and it is definitely a winnable argument. But your illogical mind is unable to do it right. Try going through every point I made and answering those questions instead of rejecting them due to your failure of comprehension, and you might be able to structure a decent argument.