Bynum: "We are all angry with each other"

[HansMoleman]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=Ai8WUB._NHH32h0_3J_4QUG8vLYF?gid=201003 0530

[QUOTE]I think everybody

[RazorBaLade]

My assessment of the Lakers:

I know this is all gonna somehow be portrayed as Kobe's fault, but I don't care what anyone says..... The team isn't trying for 48 min besides Kobe and Ron, bynum is literally a black hole if you give it to him he won't pass because he wants to score and he will do nothing else but attempt to score... Teams double him , he turns the ball over and thats the way to make lakers lose. Gasol gets mad that hes not getting the ball when in reality he's become a fairy after winning the championship and I think when he goes up and tries to lay it in then gets the ball ripped out of him as if hes a 4'2 11 year old playing against pro players it's not actually his fault, his tiara is in the way. I like the angle that brown and farmar bring to the table, but it really doesnt work on some nights and we wouldn't have to rely on it if fisher understood what he can and can't do at this stage of his career... I won't say anything about odom because I haven't seen him in a few weeks, I'll let you know when he comes back.

I predict that kobes gonna start playing passive aka 2nd half of gm 7 suns for a few games because when he starts shooting these miserable failures that are literally good enough to win a chip for the next 2-3 years are playing as if its summer league, throwing wild passes and when they lose by 30 to a contender and someone in the west starts catching up Kobe is gonna light a fire under their ass if he hasn't done it already and they will get it together for playoffs.

[monkeypox]

It's been a problem since the all star break. None of the guys outside of Kobe seem to be able to focus. Fisher and Artest are atleast trying. Now that some of these chumps have rings, they think they can start asking for touches and deciding not to try hard and pout when they don't get what they want. Right now I'm not that worried, but if they're still this sloppy when the stretch run to the playoffs starts, I'm not going to be a happy camper.

[RazorBaLade]

It's been a problem since the all star break. None of the guys outside of Kobe seem to be able to focus. Fisher and Artest are atleast trying. Now that some of these chumps have rings, they think they can start asking for touches and deciding not to try hard and pout when they don't get what they want. Right now I'm not that worried, but if they're still this sloppy when the stretch run to the playoffs starts, I'm not going to be a happy camper.

I can't figure out if it's a "we know where this is going, we'll do our best when it counts" thing or a "been there, done that, don't care anymore" thing for Gasol in particular.

[ILLsmak]

IT doesn't help that the more focused Kobe is the more he wants to be the one making all of the plays.

-Smak

[godofgods]

Great. Now Bynum, please punch Kobe in the face and end his career.

[RaininThrees]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=Ai8WUB._NHH32h0_3J_4QUG8vLYF?gid=201003 0530



trouble in paradise?

It's a long season, guys grate on each other after hangin out with each other everyday. Stuff like this is normal through the course of a year.

[rizzy]

Funny how these cry to the media antics are never heard from the Cavaliers or Mike Brown

Lakers what, only 3 games back and we've heard over 20+ of these whiney "he's mean to me" type comments from that team this season. Shut up already and just play

[Pursuer]

Yeah the Cavaliers don't whine at all, they just promise they're going to win everything despite being down 1-3 in the series, they just keep dancing, brangging and talking about being disrespected all the time.

[G.O.A.T]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/Artest.jpg

I'm just saying...

[niko]

Reading the threads on this board you'd think the Cavs crushed Orlando last year, and then rolled over the Lakers in the finals. It's always "the magic has hurt feelings, the lakers have hurt feelings, the lakers can't possibly win".

Getting along and all is great, winning is better. Last year the Cavs were a super tight unit that got along and stayed that way all through getting their ass kicked by Orlando.

[1~Gibson~1]

:pimp:

[Sticks]

Reading the threads on this board you'd think the Cavs crushed Orlando last year, and then rolled over the Lakers in the finals. It's always "the magic has hurt feelings, the lakers have hurt feelings, the lakers can't possibly win".

Getting along and all is great, winning is better. Last year the Cavs were a super tight unit that got along and stayed that way all through getting their ass kicked by Orlando.

It's easier to win when you're not resentfully passing the ball to one of your teammates. Trust me, I've been on teams where I liked my teammates and where I didn't. The game was much easier when you felt comfortable passing the ball to your teammate.

[niko]

It's easier to win when you're not resentfully passing the ball to one of your teammates. Trust me, I've been on teams where I liked my teammates and where I didn't. The game was much easier when you felt comfortable passing the ball to your teammate.

The cavs are firing on all cylinders. Thus they are happy. THis makes sense. The Lakers are playing like shit (by their standards). Thus they are unhappy.

I don't see how the Lakers being pissy they are playing like shit is a problem. It's the same for the people who want to say the Cavs are too happy because they don't concentrate. People look for faults. I don't see any issue here. Angry teams can win, happy teams can win.

[Sticks]

The cavs are firing on all cylinders. Thus they are happy. THis makes sense. The Lakers are playing like shit (by their standards). Thus they are unhappy.

I don't see how the Lakers being pissy they are playing like shit is a problem. It's the same for the people who want to say the Cavs are too happy because they don't concentrate. People look for faults. I don't see any issue here. Angry teams can win, happy teams can win.

Off course very much true, from personal experience though I feel it's easier performing at the same high-level every night when the locker room is not tense and stressfull.

Too loose an atmosphere is not good as well though, I think we're seeing both sides of the medal with the lakers and the cavs. If I had to pick a team to play on it would be the cavs though, or any team which seems to have such a nice atmosphere.

[Duckie MAN]

it's all bynum's fault, start lamar.

[Kurosawa0]

We've been waiting for this Lakers team to get it together all year. I wonder if we'll ever see it happen.

[fubu05]

it's all bynum's fault, start lamar.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/agono/shortani8xg.gif

[juju151111]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/Artest.jpg

I'm just saying...
Ron is playing just fine and nobody is even complaining about him. Gasol and bynum has said things about Kobe. I don't see how this is Artest fault.

[indiefan24]

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/agono/shortani8xg.gif

:banana:

[Brandon Roy]

The Lakers (and Kobe) have showed that they don't have to get along perfectly for them to win. Remember the Kobe and Shaq feud? Remember how Phil Jackson wrote in his book that Kobe was the bad guy in the team?

They still managed to dominate the League for 3 years. And when I say "dominate", I don't mean "maybe they'll will the championship this year" dominate; I mean "they're going to win, book it" dominate.

The other teams can have fun, dance and pump their chests all they want. The Lakers just wanna whoop your ass and go home.

[C-Webb4]

None of the players has the balls to come right out and say it, but clearly the problem is between Kobe, Bynum and Gasol. Bynum and Gasol think that the offense should be more inside out and that Kobe is to blame.

[D-Rose]

Bynum needs to be traded for a defensive center who compliments Gasol well and a starting PG.

[Indian guy]

I don't know how you are the #1 or #2 defensive team in the league all season if you aren't "trying".

LA's issues are almost entirely offensive. They lack consistent perimeter shooting and their ball movement isn't as good as it was the last 2 seasons. They have hovered around the Top 10 in offensive efficiency all season(currently #10), after finishing #3 the previous 2 seasons.

[lilmagicjohnson]

Is it a coincidence that all talented contending teams with Kobe Bryant on the roster eventually fall apart with locker room problems?

I love the guy, but I'm just saying!

[amfirst]

IF Lakers want to start winning again, they need to bench Bynum and Fisher, start Lamar and Farmar. That is the best line-up for chemistry. Bynum and Gasol don't play well together. And Fisher does not bring enough energy and penetration for a pg. The problem with Bynum is that he doesn't know how to fight for position on the rebound like Lamar, he is just a decent rebounder because of his height.

[fubu05]

Don't forget that the year they won the championship, they pretty much did it with no Bynum. I think if Gasol wasn't the softest mofo around they put him at center and start Odom again. That line-up is long, has decent defense, but has the most offensive firepower.

[DukeDelonte13]

None of the players has the balls to come right out and say it, but clearly the problem is between Kobe, Bynum and Gasol. Bynum and Gasol think that the offense should be more inside out and that Kobe is to blame.


this. Very few teams can match up with the lakers' front court.

[Juges8932]

Bynum is really getting on my nerves. He needs to STFU and just play. It might help if he also knew what a ****ing pass was. Everytime he gets it in the post, he shoots.

Gasol is also starting to annoy me. Hey Pau, instead of fading away and throwing up a patty cake shot, why don't you make a grown man move and try to shove it down their throats. Jesus Christ.

Kobe, Artest, and Fisher are the only ones that look to me like they even give a ****. They are trying hard and it shows. The rest, not so much.

We need to trade Bynum. I'm tired of his ****ing princess attitude. Let him go play for some shitty team and give us a center who actually plays defense and where he can go be Mr. Superstar.

[amfirst]

It's no coincidence that the Lakers are the best close out team because Lamar is in the line-up in the 4th.

[fubu05]

Bynum is really getting on my nerves. He needs to STFU and just play. It might help if he also knew what a ****ing pass was. Everytime he gets it in the post, he shoots.

Gasol is also starting to annoy me. Hey Pau, instead of fading away and throwing up a patty cake shot, why don't you make a grown man move and try to shove it down their throats. Jesus Christ.

Kobe, Artest, and Fisher are the only ones that look to me like they even give a ****. They are trying hard and it shows. The rest, not so much.

We need to trade Bynum. I'm tired of his ****ing princess attitude. Let him go play for some shitty team and give us a center who actually plays defense and where he can go be Mr. Superstar.

Lol are you serious? This guy?

http://thesportsunion.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/pau-gasol.jpg

But I do see what you are saying. Last year the guy was actually much tougher, now, I don't know what happened, he hates contact. :confusedshrug:

[D-Rose]

Lol are you serious? This guy?

http://thesportsunion.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/pau-gasol.jpg

But I do see what you are saying. Last year the guy was actually much tougher, now, I don't know what happened, he hates contact. :confusedshrug:
He's regressed this year in terms of toughness. He was very motivated after the 08 Finals loss I guess. Now he's got the ring and the $ :confusedshrug: Meh, the whole team looks unmotivated this year.

[rizzy]

Bynums attitude and sub par play is sure enticing to other teams


Not to mention the solid 14 mill yearly contract that was extended while on crutches


Mitch gunna be fishing out the bottom barrels to rid of this dead weight


No bench, another yr older Kobe and Artest, Pau softer as yrs go on, so much for that dynasty everyone was talking about.. *remember when LA fans though Vujacic was ungaurdable from the arc*


.

[lefthook00]

This is NOT about Kobe vs. the front line. There have been times where Bynum and Pau have been fed over and over. Have you guys even been watching the games?

How the f*ck can Bynum think that the offense should work inside out when he can't/doesn't f*cking pass the ball?

The problem is effort and mental lapses in judgement.

[RichSmoove]

No worries, this is all part of the Zen Master's plan

[Bodin]

No worries, this is all part of the Zen Master's plan

How much worse is this team without him?

[EricForman]

Reading the threads on this board you'd think the Cavs crushed Orlando last year, and then rolled over the Lakers in the finals. It's always "the magic has hurt feelings, the lakers have hurt feelings, the lakers can't possibly win".

Getting along and all is great, winning is better. Last year the Cavs were a super tight unit that got along and stayed that way all through getting their ass kicked by Orlando.


it's silly how ISH fails to look at things in context and just assume the losing team always got owned.

listen, the cavs overachieved last year. that team had probably the worst 2-12 lineup for a 60+ win team EVER. they won 66 games which was insane looking at that cast. on paper, last year's Cavs team was less talented than the 2004 Mavs (lost in first round) or 2005 Suns or 2000 Lakers or 2003 Kings or 2001 Portland or at least 10-15 other teams the past decade.

but because lebron and crew overachieved, won 66 games, then fell in ECF to a team with more talent and mismatch problems, Lebron-detractors have been holding that against Lebron or the Cavs, as if they have something to be ashamed of?

The same logic applies to 2006 Mavs. The Heat came out of a ECF loss the previous year and added a bunch of talent. They basically mortaged their future to go into "WIN NOW" mode. The Mavs were just in year two of "team reshuffle" (when they got rid of Nash and Finley and trew i na bunch of new players like Jason Terry and Stackhouse). If you were told, going into the 06 season , the Heat beats the Mavs in the finals you guys woulda said "wow the Mavs made the finals?" But because the Mavs overacheived in the regular season and the Heat underachieved, the Mavs supposedly "choked" when they lost to the Heat.

MAkes no damn sense. Look at things in context. Lebron winning 66 games with that lineup was an amazing overacheiving feat and he eventually fell to a more talented team. There is nothing to be ashamed of or worth making fun of.

[Young Simba]

and they should. Playing like bitches.
Everyone is playing bad. Got Damn they need some heart. These guys play like its an obligation, like they dont hav any emotion in their game.

And man that defense and rebounding needs some work.

[LA_Showtime]

i don't understand why people always think it's about the team's offense. the defense is what's wrong at this point. everyone knows derek fisher can't guard a fence, and kobe never respects the opposition and roams around trying to get steals ala iverson instead of actually playing defense.

[imdaman99]

Bynums attitude and sub par play is sure enticing to other teams


Not to mention the solid 14 mill yearly contract that was extended while on crutches


Mitch gunna be fishing out the bottom barrels to rid of this dead weight


No bench, another yr older Kobe and Artest, Pau softer as yrs go on, so much for that dynasty everyone was talking about.. *remember when LA fans though Vujacic was ungaurdable from the arc*


.
alright calm down there buddy :lol

Lakers are still the champs until someone knocks them out of the playoffs. we will find out in a couple of months whether they are grown men, or they just got hungry at the right time last year.

[Young Simba]

alright calm down there buddy :lol

Lakers are still the champs until someone knocks them out of the playoffs. we will find out in a couple of months whether they are grown men, or they just got hungry at the right time last year.


:oldlol:

They can still strap up their big girl pants and get it in BEAST mode.

[imdaman99]

it's silly how ISH fails to look at things in context and just assume the losing team always got owned.

listen, the cavs overachieved last year. that team had probably the worst 2-12 lineup for a 60+ win team EVER. they won 66 games which was insane looking at that cast. on paper, last year's Cavs team was less talented than the 2004 Mavs (lost in first round) or 2005 Suns or 2000 Lakers or 2003 Kings or 2001 Portland or at least 10-15 other teams the past decade.

but because lebron and crew overachieved, won 66 games, then fell in ECF to a team with more talent and mismatch problems, Lebron-detractors have been holding that against Lebron or the Cavs, as if they have something to be ashamed of?

The same logic applies to 2006 Mavs. The Heat came out of a ECF loss the previous year and added a bunch of talent. They basically mortaged their future to go into "WIN NOW" mode. The Mavs were just in year two of "team reshuffle" (when they got rid of Nash and Finley and trew i na bunch of new players like Jason Terry and Stackhouse). If you were told, going into the 06 season , the Heat beats the Mavs in the finals you guys woulda said "wow the Mavs made the finals?" But because the Mavs overacheived in the regular season and the Heat underachieved, the Mavs supposedly "choked" when they lost to the Heat.

MAkes no damn sense. Look at things in context. Lebron winning 66 games with that lineup was an amazing overacheiving feat and he eventually fell to a more talented team. There is nothing to be ashamed of or worth making fun of.
you need to stfu and let the cavs back up their play this year in the playoffs before you demand lebron get his credit for helping his team overachieve. he really needs to do it this year because his 2-12 year might be better than any other team's. role players galore. before you go blaming the playoff loss on his teammates, realize he was still on the team. he doesn't get a pass. so live with it.

[bdreason]

I'de bench Bynum. Guy has a terrible attitude and it wears on the team.

[Doranku]

it's silly how ISH fails to look at things in context and just assume the losing team always got owned.

listen, the cavs overachieved last year. that team had probably the worst 2-12 lineup for a 60+ win team EVER. they won 66 games which was insane looking at that cast. on paper, last year's Cavs team was less talented than the 2004 Mavs (lost in first round) or 2005 Suns or 2000 Lakers or 2003 Kings or 2001 Portland or at least 10-15 other teams the past decade.

but because lebron and crew overachieved, won 66 games, then fell in ECF to a team with more talent and mismatch problems, Lebron-detractors have been holding that against Lebron or the Cavs, as if they have something to be ashamed of?

The same logic applies to 2006 Mavs. The Heat came out of a ECF loss the previous year and added a bunch of talent. They basically mortaged their future to go into "WIN NOW" mode. The Mavs were just in year two of "team reshuffle" (when they got rid of Nash and Finley and trew i na bunch of new players like Jason Terry and Stackhouse). If you were told, going into the 06 season , the Heat beats the Mavs in the finals you guys woulda said "wow the Mavs made the finals?" But because the Mavs overacheived in the regular season and the Heat underachieved, the Mavs supposedly "choked" when they lost to the Heat.

MAkes no damn sense. Look at things in context. Lebron winning 66 games with that lineup was an amazing overacheiving feat and he eventually fell to a more talented team. There is nothing to be ashamed of or worth making fun of.

My GOD, how many ****ing excuses can you make in one post?

[DuMa]

i dont remember the cavs players pointing fingers at each other when they got blown out by the same bobcats team.

[Jacks3]

The same Cavs team that choked in the ECF

[bokes15]

That's why people don't understand that to win a Championship in consecutive years is a tremendous feat. Over the past 20 years, only the Bulls, Rockets and Lakers have managed to do it.

[KingLeBronJames]

I bet they're all angry at Bynum. Ball hogger!

[Amil23]

The same Cavs team that choked in the ECF
No team can choke harder than the Lakers in game 4 and 6 of the 08 finals.NO TEAM.

[YAWN]

bynum forcing it on every touch and farmar making bonehead plays when he is in, have been the main issues as of late.

[DCL]

My assessment of the Lakers:

I know this is all gonna somehow be portrayed as Kobe's fault, but I don't care what anyone says..... The team isn't trying for 48 min besides Kobe and Ron, bynum is literally a black hole if you give it to him he won't pass because he wants to score and he will do nothing else but attempt to score... Teams double him , he turns the ball over and thats the way to make lakers lose. Gasol gets mad that hes not getting the ball when in reality he's become a fairy after winning the championship and I think when he goes up and tries to lay it in then gets the ball ripped out of him as if hes a 4'2 11 year old playing against pro players it's not actually his fault, his tiara is in the way. I like the angle that brown and farmar bring to the table, but it really doesnt work on some nights and we wouldn't have to rely on it if fisher understood what he can and can't do at this stage of his career... I won't say anything about odom because I haven't seen him in a few weeks, I'll let you know when he comes back.

I predict that kobes gonna start playing passive aka 2nd half of gm 7 suns for a few games because when he starts shooting these miserable failures that are literally good enough to win a chip for the next 2-3 years are playing as if its summer league, throwing wild passes and when they lose by 30 to a contender and someone in the west starts catching up Kobe is gonna light a fire under their ass if he hasn't done it already and they will get it together for playoffs.

just admit you dont give a sh!t about the lakers but you love *********!ng to kobe. you're one of those fans.

[SAKOTXA]

No team can choke harder than the Lakers in game 4 and 6 of the 08 finals.NO TEAM.

It must suck to be the Lakers huh? When was the last time Cavs even made it to the finals? Hmmm... :oldlol:

[The GM]

Bynum needs to shut the **** up and play ball. He needs to get quicker into his move in to the post and stop getting these constant 3 second calls in the paint, he nor Pau have any say into how the offense should be ran until they man up and stop being so damn soft. Pau gets pushed around and puts up all these soft ass shots cause he doesn't wanna get to the line cause he can't shoot free throws as good as last year for whatever reason. The only players that come to play every night are Kobe, Artest, Shannon Brown & L.O. everyone else on the team have their moments, this is what happens when you win a chip everyone wants to think that their better then they are which is pertaining to Bynum and Gasol. They think their superstars now that they have a ring on their finger the hell with both of em if they gonna keep playing like this get both of them out here shit.. gimme some big men that wanna play like MEN not little ****in boys.

[OnceInADECADE]

what bynum is trying to say is we are all mad at kobe

[Wordup]

Odom needs to start running isolation more than once or twice a game and put up 15-20 a night so that he can displace either Gasol, or more likely Bynum.

Also it doesn't seem that Farmar is stepping up to the plate. Like it or not, Fisher is a more reliable shooter when things are getting tough.

Keep Shannon Brown as a burst of energy to the team but don't leave on the floor for too long because then his flaws are amplified.

[gyu]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/Artest.jpg

I'm just saying...
Or Kobe, you know, the guy who broke up the Lakers dynasty in the early 2000s

[DuMa]

It must suck to be the Lakers huh? When was the last time Cavs even made it to the finals? Hmmm... :oldlol:

2007

[RazorBaLade]

just admit you dont give a sh!t about the lakers but you love *********!ng to kobe. you're one of those fans.

No. I'm a fan of the Lakers, and I'm a fan of Kobe. If you wish to refute some of the points in my post, feel free to try, but until then......

http://media.photobucket.com/image/you%20trollin/taylorbell_photo/boxxy-trolling.jpg

[bl2k8]

That's why people don't understand that to win a Championship in consecutive years is a tremendous feat. Over the past 20 years, only the Bulls, Rockets and Lakers have managed to do it.
this. not to mention that would be the Lakers 3rd straight trip to the Finals if they manage to win, that's a lot of wear and tear

[niko]

it's silly how ISH fails to look at things in context and just assume the losing team always got owned.

listen, the cavs overachieved last year. that team had probably the worst 2-12 lineup for a 60+ win team EVER. they won 66 games which was insane looking at that cast. on paper, last year's Cavs team was less talented than the 2004 Mavs (lost in first round) or 2005 Suns or 2000 Lakers or 2003 Kings or 2001 Portland or at least 10-15 other teams the past decade.

but because lebron and crew overachieved, won 66 games, then fell in ECF to a team with more talent and mismatch problems, Lebron-detractors have been holding that against Lebron or the Cavs, as if they have something to be ashamed of?

The same logic applies to 2006 Mavs. The Heat came out of a ECF loss the previous year and added a bunch of talent. They basically mortaged their future to go into "WIN NOW" mode. The Mavs were just in year two of "team reshuffle" (when they got rid of Nash and Finley and trew i na bunch of new players like Jason Terry and Stackhouse). If you were told, going into the 06 season , the Heat beats the Mavs in the finals you guys woulda said "wow the Mavs made the finals?" But because the Mavs overacheived in the regular season and the Heat underachieved, the Mavs supposedly "choked" when they lost to the Heat.

MAkes no damn sense. Look at things in context. Lebron winning 66 games with that lineup was an amazing overacheiving feat and he eventually fell to a more talented team. There is nothing to be ashamed of or worth making fun of.

I'm not sure where you got from my post that i don't appreciate what the Cavs did. I said the tone of the posts on this forum (the topics) is as if the Cavs won the title and made it to the finals, and did not lose to the Magic. It's 100% true, HAHA, THE MAGIC ARE HATING ON LEBRON, HAHA, THE LAKERS ARE FALLING APART, HAHA. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MIKE BROWN NOW? The cavs are spoken about on this board as if the title run wasn't in front of them, but as if it were last week.

[EricForman]

My GOD, how many ****ing excuses can you make in one post?


you're an idiot if you think those were excuses. most of ISH cant look at anything in context and that's a shame. it's like people still clowning Lebron for lsoing in the 07 finals when it was massive over achievement he took that squad there in the first place.

losing doesn't automatically mean getting owned, genius.

losing like kobe did in 04 (team get spanked while he shot horribly and was locked down and looked frustrated and pissy) = getting owned

losing like say, wade did in 2005 (lost in ECF to a perennial powerhouse while playing pretty solid himself) = not really getting owned.

the cavs didnt choke when they lost to the magic last year or to the spurs in 07. have some logic, common sense, and look atthings in context. a team with mo williams as the second best player was supposed to win it all? they did as much as the ycould.

[Doranku]

you're an idiot if you think those were excuses. most of ISH cant look at anything in context and that's a shame. it's like people still clowning Lebron for lsoing in the 07 finals when it was massive over achievement he took that squad there in the first place.

losing doesn't automatically mean getting owned, genius.

losing like kobe did in 04 (team get spanked while he shot horribly and was locked down and looked frustrated and pissy) = getting owned

losing like say, wade did in 2005 (lost in ECF to a perennial powerhouse while playing pretty solid himself) = not really getting owned.

the cavs didnt choke when they lost to the magic last year or to the spurs in 07. have some logic, common sense, and look atthings in context. a team with mo williams as the second best player was supposed to win it all? they did as much as the ycould.

People clown him for shooting 35% and averaging like 7 TOs.

This Mo Williams thing is getting old. So if LeBron wins the title this year, he's amazing and the greatest ever 'cuz he carried a team w/ Mo as the second option to a 'ship. If he loses? No big deal, not his fault at all. I mean, the second option of the team is Mo Williams! Let's just praise him for getting as far as he did.

Ridiculous.

[AirJordan&Magic]

None of the players has the balls to come right out and say it, but clearly the problem is between Kobe, Bynum and Gasol. Bynum and Gasol think that the offense should be more inside out and that Kobe is to blame.

In a way, I kinda agree with this but...

The real problem with Bynum is he wants to score and it is evident in his play. He doesnt pass the ball & would take on multiple defenders, forces dumb ill advised shots, creates silly turnovers, and quite honestly the guy in the long run can be a liability to the Lakers with his playing style.......

I really hope that Bynum minutes can be reduced or at least they have Lamar starting with Pau.

I really dont have that much of a problem with Pau complaining because he is a smart player, he has a great all around skilled game, and he is not the selfish idiot that Bynum is. But I will like to see Pau be more aggressive in crunch time.

[artest 93]

People clown him for shooting 35% and averaging like 7 TOs.

This Mo Williams thing is getting old. So if LeBron wins the title this year, he's amazing and the greatest ever 'cuz he carried a team w/ Mo as the second option to a 'ship. If he loses? No big deal, not his fault at all. I mean, the second option of the team is Mo Williams! Let's just praise him for getting as far as he did.

Ridiculous.

:roll: It's funny because it's true.

That's the truth, dumbass. How can you dispute that FACT?

Would Kobe win with Mo Williams as 2nd option? Would he even make past the first round? Even before Gasol, there was Bynum/Odom, which by the way > Mo Williams by a longshot.

Would Wade carry a team to the record/playoffs that LeBron has done with Mo Williams as a 2nd option? Would Carmelo? It's impossible to know for sure, but chances are that it is very unlikely.

The bottomline is that if you make it to the finals with Mo Williams as the 2nd best/productive player, then you deserve props. There's nothing else that needs to be said. That is a one all-star team, and we are seeing records of 60+wins and ECF/Finals appearances. And I'm thinking it has something to do with LeBron's overall impact.

This year, though, LeBron has a bit of help, but even I would argue that Kobe has the better supporting cast.

Gasol, Bynum, Artest, Odom/Phil Jackson > aging Shaq, Jamison, Mo Williams, nearly retired Z/Mike Brown.

Anyway, I haven't been a big LeBron fan myself until recently. He's just on another level and it's hard to even argue it. The guy is unstoppable and efficient. He just doesn't score. He does everything. Even when he has an off-night shooting 10-25, he'll probably still finish with 30+pts/8/8.

It's time to stop the hating and start the witnessing.

[undertaker21]

Translation: Bynum: "I'm angry at Kobe."

[LA_Showtime]

:roll: It's funny because it's true.

That's the truth, dumbass. How can you dispute that FACT?

Would Kobe win with Mo Williams as 2nd option? Would he even make past the first round? Even before Gasol, there was Bynum/Odom, which by the way > Mo Williams by a longshot.

Would Wade carry a team to the record/playoffs that LeBron has done with Mo Williams as a 2nd option? Would Carmelo? It's impossible to know for sure, but chances are that it is very unlikely.

The bottomline is that if you make it to the finals with Mo Williams as the 2nd best/productive player, then you deserve props. There's nothing else that needs to be said. That is a one all-star team, and we are seeing records of 60+wins and ECF/Finals appearances. And I'm thinking it has something to do with LeBron's overall impact.

This year, though, LeBron has a bit of help, but even I would argue that Kobe has the better supporting cast.

Gasol, Bynum, Artest, Odom/Phil Jackson > aging Shaq, Jamison, Mo Williams, nearly retired Z/Mike Brown.

Anyway, I haven't been a big LeBron fan myself until recently. He's just on another level and it's hard to even argue it. The guy is unstoppable and efficient. He just doesn't score. He does everything. Even when he has an off-night shooting 10-25, he'll probably still finish with 30+pts/8/8.

It's time to stop the hating and start the witnessing.

yes, kobe would make it out of the first round if he had mo williams as a 2nd option and played in the east.

these arguments are stupid. just because lebron has help doesn't mean he's not better than kobe.

[don juan de marco]

My assessment of the Lakers:

I know this is all gonna somehow be portrayed as Kobe's fault, but I don't care what anyone says..... The team isn't trying for 48 min besides Kobe and Ron, bynum is literally a black hole if you give it to him he won't pass because he wants to score and he will do nothing else but attempt to score... Teams double him , he turns the ball over and thats the way to make lakers lose. Gasol gets mad that hes not getting the ball when in reality he's become a fairy after winning the championship and I think when he goes up and tries to lay it in then gets the ball ripped out of him as if hes a 4'2 11 year old playing against pro players it's not actually his fault, his tiara is in the way. I like the angle that brown and farmar bring to the table, but it really doesnt work on some nights and we wouldn't have to rely on it if fisher understood what he can and can't do at this stage of his career... I won't say anything about odom because I haven't seen him in a few weeks, I'll let you know when he comes back.

I predict that kobes gonna start playing passive aka 2nd half of gm 7 suns for a few games because when he starts shooting these miserable failures that are literally good enough to win a chip for the next 2-3 years are playing as if its summer league, throwing wild passes and when they lose by 30 to a contender and someone in the west starts catching up Kobe is gonna light a fire under their ass if he hasn't done it already and they will get it together for playoffs.


+20:applause:
Amazingly accurate
Bynum never passes and only cares about his own shots
Pau wants more touches but when he gets them he goes up for a soft layup and gets swatted or the ball ripped
Our bigs are soft, and they dont play defense. Bynum is a idiot and thinks he is good if he only scores and nothing else.
Odom should start over Bynum, atleast he rebounds and plays some defense. Our bigs dont try to block shots, they rather just put a hand in the guys face they are guarding similar to what Shane does. Brown is becoming more and more of a ball hog. fisher man is always open, kobe man is always open to bcuz he is not respecting their shot

[DCL]

every laker is at fault except kobe. its the same voice repeated over and over in this thread. cut the bs. you fake ass clowns arent laker fans.

[YAWN]

every laker is at fault except kobe. its the same voice repeated over and over in this thread. cut the bs. you fake ass clowns arent laker fans.
I don't see anyone bashing artest, do you know why? Because he ****ing plays hard.

I guess some in direct blame can go to Kobe, when he is in there thats a guaranteed 20 or so shots less to go around. So whenever Bynum touches the ball he feels this is his chance to make a move. The rest of the league has noticed this and just come to double him and make him fumble the ball. 9/10 times that you throw him the ball, he is going to go up with it. Its really ridiculous.

[DuMa]

I don't see anyone bashing artest, do you know why? Because he ****ing plays hard.

I guess some in direct blame can go to Kobe, when he is in there thats a guaranteed 20 or so shots less to go around. So whenever Bynum touches the ball he feels this is his chance to make a move. The rest of the league has noticed this and just come to double him and make him fumble the ball. 9/10 times that you throw him the ball, he is going to go up with it. Its really ridiculous.

Kobe doesnt play defense. whoever he is assigned to defend has all day to shoot.

[fubu05]

Kobe doesnt play defense. whoever he is assigned to defend has all day to shoot.
:applause:



I don't see anyone bashing artest, do you know why? Because he ****ing plays hard.

I guess some in direct blame can go to Kobe, when he is in there thats a guaranteed 20 or so shots less to go around. So whenever Bynum touches the ball he feels this is his chance to make a move. The rest of the league has noticed this and just come to double him and make him fumble the ball. 9/10 times that you throw him the ball, he is going to go up with it. Its really ridiculous.


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/agono/animated141wa6.gif

[YAWN]

Kobe doesnt play defense. whoever he is assigned to defend has all day to shoot.
overall he has been pretty good on D this year, he has been taking plays off which result in some open 3 point attempts. Point guards seem to be having a field day with fisher on em though.

[YAWN]

gif


pardon me?

[fubu05]

overall he has been pretty good on D this year, he has been taking plays off which result in some open 3 point attempts. Point guards seem to be having a field day with fisher on em though.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/agono/smack.gif


Q-Rich had at least 10 open threes that night.

[Lakers13]

Kobe doesnt play defense. whoever he is assigned to defend has all day to shoot.

He's too busy playing the passing lanes...

[undertaker21]

Kobe doesnt play defense. whoever he is assigned to defend has all day to shoot.
Oh, but he's "roaming" :oldlol: That's what makes him 1st team All-NBA defense year after year.

[Lakers13]

Bynum should learn to pass when he's doubled before he gets angry with anyone.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Im honestly worried and when I read that comment a lump formed in my throat. Please Jax, calm these nikkas down :ohwell:

If Bynum's the problem, ship his ass to Chicago for Noah/Hinrich.

[Lakers13]

Oh, but he's "roaming" :oldlol: That's what makes him 1st team All-NBA defense year after year.


Apparently his defense is a myth to build his legendary status up

[fubu05]

Apparently his defense is a myth to build his legendary status up

Not really, it shows up 2 games a year.

[LA_Showtime]

Bynum should learn to pass when he's doubled before he gets angry with anyone.

honestly i think bynum would pass if he knew how. the guy seems clueless, which makes sense because he's had very little basketball experience. it would be nice if someone could teach him the basics of passing out of the post. what bynum does is either decide to shoot or pass the ball (he usually chooses the former). the entire team + the army could try and stop him but he would be unable to adjust after making up his mind.

[YAWN]

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/agono/smack.gif


Q-Rich had at least 10 open threes that night.

are we talking about 1 game or a season? scrubs have career nights where they can't miss all the time..

[YAWN]

Oh, but he's "roaming" :oldlol: That's what makes him 1st team All-NBA defense year after year.
try watching the lakers play instead of hopping on the popular anti kobe sentiment. why posting on the alt account lb?

[Lakers13]

Not really, it shows up 2 games a year.

That makes sense, somebody should go ask for all his All Def team awards back.

[undertaker21]

Not really, it shows up 2 games a year.
When he plays Lebron right? :lol

[Lakers13]

honestly i think bynum would pass if he knew how. the guy seems clueless, which makes sense because he's had very little basketball experience. it would be nice if someone could teach him the basics of passing out of the post. what bynum does is either decide to shoot or pass the ball (he usually chooses the former). the entire team + the army could try and stop him but he would be unable to adjust after making up his mind.

Im sure Kareem gave him some tips of pass out and repost, guess it didnt stick though.

[catch24]

Only person Bynum should be mad at is himself. Dude has been straight p*ssy mode for the past few weeks, same with Gasol. I'd like to see Kobe shoot the ball more consistently, but I'm happy he's one of the few who's always "mad" after a loss. With the talent we have, pretty much every L is unacceptable.

[fubu05]

are we talking about 1 game or a season? scrubs have career nights where they can't miss all the time..


http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/agono/hitlerjoke8aw-1.gif


QRICH has proven he can hit threes :confusedshrug: . Kobe actually left him open, to shoot, didn't get up in his grill to make his shot tougher. He let the guy heat up, simple as that. You don't do that. Read your stats. The guy shoots 40% from threes. If you leave him wide open like Kobe did, he will shoot a higher pecentage. It's simple, Kobe played horrible D. He's not really a scrub. :confusedshrug:

[fubu05]

When he plays Lebron right? :lol

Kobe doesn't guard Lebron? :confusedshrug:

[Jacks3]

lakers are the best defense in the league. they're defense is considerably worse with kobe off the court. his d has been very good this year. lol @ the pathetic haters.

[YAWN]

Im sure Kareem gave him some tips of pass out and repost, guess it didnt stick though.

Could also be guys not moving to give him an easier pass since they assume he is going to go up with it any way. Which they are probably right about.. But hopefully that gets straightened out, can't keep expecting to win just because the team has the most talent on almost every night.

[fubu05]

lakers are the best defense in the league. they're defense is considerably worse with kobe off the court. his d has been very good this year. lol @ the pathetic haters.

I'm not saying Kobe can't really play defense, he is just really lazy this year or maybe he is getting, nvm, I won't use the "o" word. Maybe he is maturing?

[LA_Showtime]

i still don't understand what all the fuss is about. yes, the lakers have played some uninspired ball of late, but they'll be fine come playoff time. kobe will migrate to the post, we will see more of lamar odom and less of bynum/gasol together, and the rotations will be cut from 10 to 8.

[Jacks3]

he Lakers give up fewer points per 100 possessions than any team in the league. They've been the best defense in the league this year.
They're much worse with Kobe off the floor defensively.That is a fact.
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.

On court-102.2

Off court-105.9

-3.7

12.5 defensive PER(:eek: )
46% eFG% allowed to his opponents (:eek: )

Beast.

[DCL]

but why do so many opponents have big games against kobe? is everyone really that lucky..... or is there just something wrong with kobe's defense??

[YAWN]

QRICH has proven he can hit threes :confusedshrug: . Kobe actually left him open, to shoot, didn't get up in his grill to make his shot tougher. He let the guy heat up, simple as that. You don't do that. Read your stats. The guy shoots 40% from threes. If you leave him wide open like Kobe did, he will shoot a higher pecentage. It's simple, Kobe played horrible D. He's not really a scrub. :confusedshrug:

the game doesn't jump out, id have to rewatch to judge i guess.

But regardless of that his overall D for the season has been really good, especially in spots where the team as a whole decides to "turn it on". Most of the close finishes this year happen due to a random 4 minute defensive furry at the end of the game to eliminate dumb 10 point deficits.

[Jacks3]

I'm not saying Kobe can't really play defense, he is just really lazy this year or maybe he is getting, nvm, I won't use the "o" word. Maybe he is maturing?
How is he getting lazy when he and the Lakers are having their best defensive season in years?smh.

[Jacks3]

but why do so many opponents have big games against kobe? is everyone really that lucky..... or is there just something wrong with kobe's defense??
They don't. The average SG has been very mediocre against the Lakers this year. Like I said, his defensive numbers across the board are excellent. smh.

[LA_Showtime]

jack, what are the field goal percentages with kobe on/off the floor? points per game don't matter.

[fubu05]

How is he getting lazy when he and the Lakers are having their best defensive season in years?smh.

He's been burned by the top teams a lot. Miami isn't even a "top team" yet QRICH burned him. Denver's Arron Afflolo has burned LA this season shooting threes. This year, Kobe tends to drift away from his man alot and try and go to the paint or pick off a pass from the point guard. All of a sudden he is caught in the middle, cross-court pass, his man is left open for the three. When there are big games, and he is supposed to shut down those three point campers, he simply doesn't do it. He tries to cheat too much.

[undertaker21]

They don't. The average SG has been very mediocre against the Lakers this year. Like I said, his defensive numbers across the board are excellent. smh.
Do you know that average and mediocre pretty much mean the same thing? So if an average player has a mediocre game against Kobe it means they have their regular game against him. In order for someone to say Kobe is a great defender, great SG's would have good games against him (as opposed to great games) and average SG's would have poor games against him (as opposed to average ones).

[Jacks3]

jack, what are the field goal percentages with kobe on/off the floor? points per game don't matter.
Points per 100 possesions are the best measure of D.
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. Kobe Bryant:

On court-102.2

Off court-105.9

-3.7

Beast.

[Jacks3]

He's been burned by the top teams a lot. Miami isn't even a "top team" yet QRICH burned him. Denver's Arron Afflolo has burned LA this season shooting threes. This year, Kobe tends to drift away from his man alot and try and go to the paint or pick off a pass from the point guard. All of a sudden he is caught in the middle, cross-court pass, his man is left open for the three. When there are big games, and he is supposed to shut down those three point campers, he simply doesn't do it. He tries to cheat too much.
The Lakers have been the best team in the league guarding threes this year. He doesn't drift much at all.

[Jacks3]

Do you know that average and mediocre pretty much mean the same thing? So if an average player has a mediocre game against Kobe it means they have their regular game against him. In order for someone to say Kobe is a great defender, great SG's would have good games against him (as opposed to great games) and average SG's would have poor games against him (as opposed to average ones).
12.5 Defensive PER
46% eFG% given up
Those are phenomenal defensive numbers.

[fubu05]

Points per 100 possesions are the best measure of D.
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. Kobe Bryant:

On court-102.2

Off court-105.9

-3.7

Beast.

Have you ever thought that without Kobe on the field, the pace of the game is different, the dynamics of the game are different? That could have something to do with points per 100 possessions? FG% is actually the best measure. Why do you have to refuse his request?

[YAWN]

Have you ever thought that without Kobe on the field, the pace of the game is different, the dynamics of the game are different? That could have something to do with points per 100 possessions? FG% is actually the best measure. Why do you have to refuse his request?

is there a place to see stats like this? Id be curious to browse some of these for some players

[DCL]

They don't. The average SG has been very mediocre against the Lakers this year. Like I said, his defensive numbers across the board are excellent. smh.

dont know how you see him dominating on defense. guys always light up and get into "en fuego" mode on kobe. once in awhile is normal but that just shouldnt happen regularly if you're supposedly one of the top defenders in the league.

[undertaker21]

12.5 Defensive PER
46% eFG% given up
Those are phenomenal defensive numbers.
PER does not even begin to tell the story. It's just a statistical supplement, and an offensive one at that. Even Hollinger has said that it's an offensive formula which measures efficiency.

[Jacks3]

Excuses. The fact is that the Lakers(the best defese in the league) are considerably worse defensively with Kobe off the court. Besides on/off court FG% isn't available. Points per 100 possessions is the best measure of D anyaway.

[Jacks3]

dont know how you see him dominating on defense. guys always light up and get into "en fuego" mode on kobe. once in awhile is normal but that just shouldnt happen regularly if you're supposedly one of the top defenders in the league.
46% eFG%
12.5 defensive PER
Guys are always getting shut down by Kobe. I post facts and all u guy are doing are throwing up these general statements with no prof. lame.

[B-Easy]

Points per 100 possesions are the best measure of D.
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. Kobe Bryant:

On court-102.2

Off court-105.9

-3.7

Beast.

hmm i might be wrong, but this can be misleading because Artest and Kobe are usually together.

Do u have the same stats, but for Artest?

[Jacks3]

PER does not even begin to tell the story. It's just a statistical supplement, and an offensive one at that. Even Hollinger has said that it's an offensive formula which measures efficiency.
lol. It's a measurement of the offensive SG against the Lakers this year. It tells us they're being shut down.smh.

[Jacks3]

Artest has the best defensive +/- on the team. Kobe is slightly behind. They've been easily the best defensive duo in the league this year.

[undertaker21]

lol. It's a measurement of the offensive SG against the Lakers this year. It tells us they're being shut down.smh.
How? Do you even know what the formula entails?


PER takes into account positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. The formula adds positive stats and subtracts negative ones through a statistical point value system. The rating for each player is then adjusted to a per-minute basis so that, for example, substitutes can be compared with starters in playing time debates. It is also adjusted for the team's pace. In the end, one number sums up the players' statistical accomplishments for that season.


PER largely measures offensive performance. Hollinger freely admits that two of the defensive statistics it incorporates -- blocks and steals -- can produce a distorted picture of a player's value and that PER is not a reliable measure of a player's defensive acumen. For example, Bruce Bowen, widely regarded as one of the best defenders in the NBA (at least through the 2006-07 season), has routinely posted single-digit PERs.
Bear in mind that this rating is not the final, once-and-for-all answer for a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for players such as Bruce Bowen and Trenton Hassell who are defensive specialists but don't get many blocks or steals.

[Jacks3]

uH, THAT'S THE POINT. The SG position against the Lakers this year have been putting up below league-average PER. They're scoring/passing/efficiency/rebounding etc are all below league average. Kobe is shutting them down.

[fubu05]

uH, THAT'S THE POINT. The SG position against the Lakers this year have been putting up below league-average PER. They're scoring/passing/efficiency/rebounding etc are all below league average. Kobe is shutting them down.

Why do the Lakers give up 44.4% 3FG to Denver? They are an amazing team guarding from 3, are they not? Sure they can do it against teams that can't expose them, but Denver exposes the way Kobe plays defense, Afflolo is 54.6% from 3 against LA. Kobe and Afflalo are always on at the same time and Afflolo always guards Kobe, Kobe always guards Afflalo. Hmm. :confusedshrug:

[Jacks3]

lol @ using one game to prove your point.:roll:
Facts is, the Lakers have been the BEST team at guarding the three this year. That's over 63 games, buddy. One game. :roll:

[fubu05]

lol @ using one game to prove your point.:roll:
Facts is, the Lakers have been the BEST team at guarding the three this year. That's over 63 games, buddy. One game. :roll:

One game? That's the average against Denver this season. :roll: Denver exposes the way Kobe and really the Lakers in total play defense beyond the arc. They have the pieces to burn the Lakers. Just so you know, La and Denver have played 3 games this season, that is 1 + 2. You following? There will also be one more game coming up. :D April 8. We'll see what happens in that one.

[YAWN]

Why do the Lakers give up 44.4% 3FG to Denver? They are an amazing team guarding from 3, are they not? Sure they can do it against teams that can't expose them, but Denver exposes the way Kobe plays defense, Afflolo is 54.6% from 3 against LA. Kobe and Afflalo are always on at the same time and Afflolo always guards Kobe, Kobe always guards Afflalo. Hmm. :confusedshrug:
or Denver has chauncey, JR, and Melo who are known to catch fire. The game where billups was on fire comes to mind.

this one as well:
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0525/nba_g_jrsmith3_576.jpg

[Jacks3]

Who gives a shit? Through 63 games the Lakers have been the best team in the league at guarding the three. The best. Yeah, they're so getting exposed. :roll: :roll:

[fubu05]

or Denver has chauncey, JR, and Melo who are known to catch fire. The game where billups was on fire comes to mind.

this one as well:
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0525/nba_g_jrsmith3_576.jpg

I specifically gave an example to Afflolo. The guy who is guarded by Kobe. If Kobe isn't in the game, Afflolo isn't. :confusedshrug:

[undertaker21]

lol @ using one game to prove your point.:roll:
Facts is, the Lakers have been the BEST team at guarding the three this year. That's over 63 games, buddy. One game. :roll:
You're making a fool of yourself here... Without any sort of stats, people who watch Lakers games can clearly see (and Kobe even said this himself) that he like to play a defense where he sags off of his opponents. His "roaming" defense as he likes to call it. It pays dividends when he guards people like Rondo for example who can't shoot. But then when he sags off guys like Q-Rich or Afflalo, he gets exposed. Badly. I'm not saying he's an incapable defender but rather that the way he plays defense is poor 90+% of the time.

[YAWN]

I specifically gave an example to Afflolo. The guy who is guarded by Kobe. If Kobe isn't in the game, Afflolo isn't. :confusedshrug:

you're talking about the teams shooting %..

That guy is shooting 45% on the league from 3 for this season. And these are from his games against the Lakers..

1/1
2/3
3/7

1 basket higher than his season average..

[Jacks3]

Not really. The Lakers are the best in the league at guarding the three-point line,which suggest he's doing a excellent job sticking to his man. Not to mention:Points per 100 possesions is the best measure of D.
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. Kobe Bryant:

On court-102.2

Off court-105.9

-3.7

Beast.

Not to mention his amazing defensive numbers(12.5 Defensive PER allowed and a amazing 46% eFG% given up)

[Jacks3]

defender but rather that the way he plays defense is poor 90+% of the time.
LMAO

[undertaker21]

LMAO
Are you laughing because you know you have no point? Look at how Ron Artest goes all out when he plays defense and then take a look at how Kobe plays. He has enough offensive weapons on his team to be able to exert more effort on his man defense. Even the most biased Lakers fan like yourself should be able to admit this.

[fubu05]

you're talking about the teams shooting %..

That guy is shooting 45% on the league from 3 for this season. And these are from his games against the Lakers..

1/1
2/3
3/7

1 basket higher than his season average..


Why do the Lakers give up 44.4% 3FG to Denver? They are an amazing team guarding from 3, are they not? Sure they can do it against teams that can't expose them, but Denver exposes the way Kobe plays defense, Afflolo is 54.6% from 3 against LA. Kobe and Afflalo are always on at the same time and Afflolo always guards Kobe, Kobe always guards Afflalo. Hmm. :confusedshrug:



He still made it did he not? The thing here is, we're trying to prove Kobe's defense. If he really was a great defensive player, he would get up for these games, and make Afflolo shoot worse. Afflolo isn't a guy who creates his own shots, he relies on the pass, being open, and then he can ring it up. If he isn't open and has a defender on him, he simply has a lower chance of making it and will probably just pass it back and not even shoot it. But, he is actually allowing Afflolo to shoot better than his season average, it's not like Afflolo is elevating over Kobe and is Ray Allen? And it's not like Denver runs 50 screens for Afflolo to run around the court 3 times to get open and take a three. Kobe just gets caught, that's it. Instead of changing his game plan and playing someone like Afflolo close, he plays him like he would play Rondo. That's a mistake and bad defense. Period.

[undertaker21]

It's simple. Most of the time Kobe doesn't respect his opponent on the defensive end. You may see him ask to be put on a player like Wade or Bron once they get hot, but when he guards the people they usually put him on, he'd rather just drift around and give them open shots.. and think about the next highlight reel he can put together on the other end of the floor.

[YAWN]

He still made it did he not? The thing here is, we're trying to prove Kobe's defense. If he really was a great defensive player, he would get up for these games, and make Afflolo shoot worse. Afflolo isn't a guy who creates his own shots, he relies on the pass, being open, and then he can ring it up. If he isn't open and has a defender on him, he simply has a lower chance of making it and will probably just pass it back and not even shoot it. But, he is actually allowing Afflolo to shoot better than his season average, it's not like Afflolo is elevating over Kobe and is Ray Allen? And it's not like Denver runs 50 screens for Afflolo to run around the court 3 times to get open and take a three. Kobe just gets caught, that's it. Instead of changing his game plan and playing someone like Afflolo close, he plays him like he would play Rondo. That's a mistake and bad defense. Period.

your basing it on a very small sample size, he can come out and go 1/4 next game and all of a sudden kobe is holding him to well under his season average.. You also have to go back and watch each of these and point to it being kobes fault that he hit a wide open shot in order to come to this type of conclusion. a good shooter (45% for the year from 3pt land) is going to make some shots over the course of a game no matter who is guarding him. As you stated yourself this particular player doesn't have very many plays run for him and gets most of his attempts off of a broken play or a kick out.

[Jacks3]

I have no point? I'm the one bringing up facts and you're throwing out ridiculous hyperbole. the facts say his man defense has been excellent this year. the facts say the lakers have been the best defensive team in the league. the facts say no team has guarded the three point line better. the facts say SG's have sucked aginst the Lakers this year. the facts say the lakers are a considerably better team defensively with kobe on the court. you have done nothing at all to prove your points but throw out a bunch of ridiculous statements. the burden of prof is on you.smh.

[Jacks3]

Yeah, Kobe doesn't respect guys so much he's holding them to below league-average production.

[YAWN]

It's simple. Most of the time Kobe doesn't respect his opponent on the defensive end. You may see him ask to be put on a player like Wade or Bron once they get hot, but when he guards the people they usually put him on, he'd rather just drift around and give them open shots.. and think about the next highlight reel he can put together on the other end of the floor.

i guess you're right, almost every opposing player, coach, gm, analyst, and fan get their idea of kobe being a good defensive player off of some youtube highlight reel. Has nothing to do with playing against him on the court or watching him play good defense.

[undertaker21]

your basing it on a very small sample size, he can come out and go 1/4 next game and all of a sudden kobe is holding him to well under his season average.. You also have to go back and watch each of these and point to it being kobes fault that he hit a wide open shot in order to come to this type of conclusion. a good shooter (45% for the year from 3pt land) is going to make some shots over the course of a game no matter who is guarding him. As you stated yourself this particular player doesn't have very many plays run for him and gets most of his attempts off of a broken play or a kick out.
This argument fails. You can't stop a great all around offensive player, you can only contain him, make his shots more difficult, and hope he fails. A great shooter can be stopped pretty easily, especially by a 1st team all NBA defender. Put a hand in his face.

[undertaker21]

I have no point? I'm the one bringing up facts and you're throwing out ridiculous hyperbole. the facts say his man defense has been excellent this year. the facts say the lakers have been the best defensive team in the league. the facts say no team has guarded the three point line better. the facts say SG's have sucked aginst the Lakers this year. the facts say the lakers are a considerably better team defensively with kobe on the court. you have done nothing at all to prove your points but throw out a bunch of ridiculous statements. the burden of prof is on you.smh.
The "facts" say that Kobe Bryant is the 11th best player in the league based on PER. Is that also correct?

[YAWN]

This argument fails. You can't stop a great all around offensive player, you can only contain him, make his shots more difficult, and hope he fails. A great shooter can be stopped pretty easily, especially by a 1st team all NBA defender. Put a hand in his face.
he makes 3s in every game.. against every single player.. and this happens for every single shooter in the league.. they make shots. They are in the NBA for a reason, because they can make shots.

Are you saying that you expect Kobe to be the only player in the history of basketball to go out there and not let the guy he is guarding (who is not even a superstar player that the D is focused on stopping mind you) not take a shot?

[fubu05]

your basing it on a very small sample size, he can come out and go 1/4 next game and all of a sudden kobe is holding him to well under his season average.. You also have to go back and watch each of these and point to it being kobes fault that he hit a wide open shot in order to come to this type of conclusion. a good shooter (45% for the year from 3pt land) is going to make some shots over the course of a game no matter who is guarding him. As you stated yourself this particular player doesn't have very many plays run for him and gets most of his attempts off of a broken play or a kick out.

Afflolo does not make his own shots, he needs to be open, if someone is shadowing him, he simply doesn't even bother shooting, because he knows he cant make it.

Broken plays/kick out are not excuses. Kobe needs to realize, hey, should I go help in the paint, and leave an amazing 3 point shooter open? By going in the paint, I give up 1 extra point if Afflolo makes the three, because you can almost always expect the kick-out if a 3-point shooter is left wide open. Nene is not Bynum. When Kobe holds Afflolo to 1/4, then I will say that he stepped up his D that night. Someone doesn't usually get lucky 3 games in a row, leave Afflolo open, he makes it. Shadow him, body him up, he won't bother shooting the three and pass it back out. Simple. We will see in the last meeting between these two teams in April how it goes down. I will go to sleep for now, I've enjoyed this conversation, talk to you all tomorrow.

[Jacks3]

Sure, whatever. I don't care. Show me this prof that Kobe doesn't play correct D 90% of the time. He doesn't respect shooters? Is that all you got? How the hell are the Lakers the best team in the league at defending threes if Kobe doesn't respect shooters? Dude is playing 40 minutes a night at the SG position.You have absolutely no prof about anything you said. :oldlol:

[YAWN]

Afflolo does not make his own shots, he needs to be open, if someone is shadowing him, he simply doesn't even bother shooting, because he knows he cant make it.

Broken plays/kick out are not excuses. Kobe needs to realize, hey, should I go help in the paint, and leave an amazing 3 point shooter open? By going in the paint, I give up 1 extra point if Afflolo makes the three, because you can almost always expect the kick-out if a 3-point shooter is left wide open. Nene is not Bynum. When Kobe holds Afflolo to 1/4, then I will say that he stepped up his D that night. Someone doesn't usually get lucky 3 games in a row, leave Afflolo open, he makes it. Shadow him, body him up, he won't bother shooting the three and pass it back out. Simple. We will see in the last meeting between these two teams in April how it goes down. I will go to sleep for now, I've enjoyed this conversation, talk to you all tomorrow.

i expect it to go the same. focus on stopping melo, chauncey, jr since those are the guys that can catch fire and kill you. the sample size is far too small to judge on.

[undertaker21]

he makes 3s in every game.. against every single player.. and this happens for every single shooter in the league.. they make shots. They are in the NBA for a reason, because they can make shots.

Are you saying that you expect Kobe to be the only player in the history of basketball to go out there and not let the guy he is guarding (who is not even a superstar player that the D is focused on stopping mind you) not take a shot?
He doesn't make shots in players faces... He makes shots because people put their focus on everyone else on the team but him. Granted, in a way I understand because the team does have 4 other very viable offensive weapons, but as that other dude keeps repeating, the "facts" say that the Lakers are the best defensive team in the league. So why would he need to leave a good 3 point shooter open when he has 2 7 foot bigs in the paint to take care of business down there, and Ron Artest to send on Melo?

[YAWN]

He doesn't make shots in players faces... He makes shots because people put their focus on everyone else on the team but him. Granted, in a way I understand because the team does have 4 other very viable offensive weapons, but as that other dude keeps repeating, the "facts" say that the Lakers are the best defensive team in the league. So why would he need to leave a good 3 point shooter open when he has 2 7 foot bigs in the paint to take care of business down there, and Ron Artest to send on Melo?

like i said we are dealing with a sample size of a game where he made 1 3pter, one where he made 2 of them, and one where he made 3. If you don't think that in any given game a great 3 pointer can make that many shots then i don't know what to tell ya. I don't have the replays for every one of those makes so i can't sit here and blame those 6 buckets on Kobe. And I certainly can't use those to dismiss his very good defense throughout the entire season.

[undertaker21]

Sure, whatever. I don't care. Show me this prof that Kobe doesn't play correct D 90% of the time. He doesn't respect shooters? Is that all you got? How the hell are the Lakers the best team in the league at defending threes if Kobe doesn't respect shooters? Dude is playing 40 minutes a night at the SG position.You have absolutely no prof about anything you said. :oldlol:
First, Kobe splits his time between the 2, 3 and 4 positions. Making what you just said absolutely false. Don't believe me? Check 82games.com. Secondly, one player does not make a team 3pt fg% low by himself. Unless you are insinuating that Kobe not only is a stellar defender but he defends every (over even the majority) of 3 point shots that the opposing team takes.

[undertaker21]

like i said we are dealing with a sample size of a game where he made 1 3pter, one where he made 2 of them, and one where he made 3. If you don't think that in any given game a great 3 pointer can make that many shots then i don't know what to tell ya. I don't have the replays for every one of those makes so i can't sit here and blame those 6 buckets on Kobe. And I certainly can't use those to dismiss his very good defense throughout the entire season.
Question for you. Would you call Allen Iverson a great defender in his prime?

[Jacks3]

He spends the vast majority of his time at SG. If Kobe was disrespecting shooters as much as you say, there is no way they would be 1st in the league at guarding threes. And considering shooting guards( along with PG's) tend to be the primary shooters of teams, Kobe must be doing a damn fine job. Some more prof: SG's have a 46 eFG% against Kobe this year, which suggests a very low 3PT%. Where is your prof?

[don juan de marco]

:roll: It's funny because it's true.

That's the truth, dumbass. How can you dispute that FACT?

Would Kobe win with Mo Williams as 2nd option? Would he even make past the first round? Even before Gasol, there was Bynum/Odom, which by the way > Mo Williams by a longshot.

Would Wade carry a team to the record/playoffs that LeBron has done with Mo Williams as a 2nd option? Would Carmelo? It's impossible to know for sure, but chances are that it is very unlikely.

The bottomline is that if you make it to the finals with Mo Williams as the 2nd best/productive player, then you deserve props. There's nothing else that needs to be said. That is a one all-star team, and we are seeing records of 60+wins and ECF/Finals appearances. And I'm thinking it has something to do with LeBron's overall impact.

This year, though, LeBron has a bit of help, but even I would argue that Kobe has the better supporting cast.

Gasol, Bynum, Artest, Odom/Phil Jackson > aging Shaq, Jamison, Mo Williams, nearly retired Z/Mike Brown.

Anyway, I haven't been a big LeBron fan myself until recently. He's just on another level and it's hard to even argue it. The guy is unstoppable and efficient. He just doesn't score. He does everything. Even when he has an off-night shooting 10-25, he'll probably still finish with 30+pts/8/8.

It's time to stop the hating and start the witnessing.

lol that was so cheesy and gay:roll:
lol u have to annoy yourself

[undertaker21]

He spends the vast majority of his time at SG. If Kobe was disrespecting shooters as much as you say, there is no way they would be 1st in the league at guarding threes. And considering shooting guards( along with PG's) tend to be the primary shooters of teams, Kobe must be doing a damn fine job. Some more prof: SG's have a 46 eFG% against Kobe this year, which suggests a very low 3PT%. Where is your prof?
Just like you can't statistically prove that Kobe is the only person who guards 3 point shooters on the opposing team, I can't statistically prove that he sags off the shooters and plays the passing lanes. Anyone with two eyes and a brain can see it (and if you need further proof watch "Kobe doin' work" where he says it himself), which makes this argument with you futile. Have a good one bro. :cheers:

[Jacks3]

Yeah, he's sagging off shooters so much he's causing them to shoot below-average from the field and helping the Lakers do a better job on three-point shooters than any team in the league. :roll: Dude has still shown no prof AT ALL.

[undertaker21]

Yeah, he's sagging off shooters so much he's causing them to shoot below-average from the field and helping the Lakers do a better job on three-point shooters than any team in the league. :roll: Dude has still shown no prof AT ALL.
He sags off most shooters and the poor shooters miss their shots... And the best perimeter player on the opposing team is usually guarded by Ron Artest... Anything else?

[catch24]

lol @ jacks3 being ripped to shreds.

[Jacks3]

LMAO. So know they're just missing their shots. :roll:

[undertaker21]

lol @ jacks3 being ripped to shreds.
It's almost pointless by now because no matter how badly he's getting owned, he just continues to stay on his faulty point. Kinda reminds me of that mule on family guy.

[Jacks3]

lol @ jacks3 being ripped to shreds.
lol @ this moron. yeah, the dude who is actually throwing out facts instead of a bunch of hyperbole is the one being ripped to shreds. idiot.

[undertaker21]

lol @ this moron. yeah, the dude who is actually throwing out facts instead of a bunch of hyperbole is the one being ripped to shreds. idiot.
Are you even a Lakers fan? I swear you just watch Kobe youtube highlights and then beat off to John Hollinger before bedtime so that you'll have something legitimate to say in an argument you clearly know nothing about.

[catch24]

Other than Ron guarding the opposing teams best perimeter player, you haven't pointed out anything. Try again, Jackie. Actually, don't, I just won't respond...you can continue to live vicariously through Kobe.

[Jacks3]

don't be mad because you have no clue what you're talking about. i have facts and you have delusions and hyperbole. move on.

[Jacks3]

Other than Ron guarding the opposing teams best perimeter player, you haven't pointed out anything. Try again, Jackie. Actually, don't, I just won't respond...you can continue to live vicariously through Kobe.
@ this dumass. read the thread. i've posted nothing but facts.

[Jacks3]

-Lakers are the best defensive team in the league-fact
-Lakers do a better job against the three than anybody in the league-fact
-Lakers are considerably better defensively with Kobe on the court-fact
-SG's have sucked against the Lakers-fact

Opposing argument: Kobe sags off his man too much.

:oldlol:

[catch24]

lmao @ this delusional piece of trash

[undertaker21]

@ this dumass. read the thread. i've posted nothing but facts.
You said that Kobe plays 40 minutes a night at SG... False.. 82games.com proves that he splits his minutes at the 2, 3, and 4.

You said that the Lakers are the best defensive team in the NBA... OPINION. Tell me what is the quantifiable proof that says the Lakers are the best defensive team in the league. Opponent 3pt fg%? That's what determines the leagues best defensive team?

You said that opposing teams score the league's lowest 3pt fg% against the Lakers because Kobe guards the 2 position 40 mins a night and does a great job of it.... Kobe does NOT guard the 2 position 40 mins a night, nor does he guard the opposing teams best perimeter player. Ron Artest does. Where are all these facts you claim to have?

[Jacks3]

i thought the clown said he was done responding? lol @ that piece of garbage.

[undertaker21]

i thought the clown said he was done responding? lol @ that piece of garbage.
Have you been so thoroughly owned that that is the best thing you can come up with?

[Jacks3]

-Lakers are the best defensive team in the league-fact
-Lakers do a better job against the three than anybody in the league-fact
-Lakers are considerably better defensively with Kobe on the court-fact
-SG's have sucked against the Lakers-fact

Opposing argument: Kobe sags off his man too much.

:oldlol:
facts. check basketball-reference.com

[undertaker21]

facts. check basketball-reference.com
Show them to me.. Post them here. The only fact you've posted is opponent 3pt fg%.

[catch24]

Have you been so thoroughly owned that that is the best thing you can come up with?

I'm just laughing at his post, he still thinks I'm responding to him. I'd seriously put this dude on ignore and move on.

[Jacks3]

Have you been so thoroughly owned that that is the best thing you can come up with?
I'm being owned?:oldlol: the burden of prof is on you. i've already proven my point. kobe has been excellent defensively this year.

[Jacks3]

why don't you just go to the website. it's not that hard.

[Jacks3]

I'm just laughing at his post, he still thinks I'm responding to him. I'd seriously put this dude on ignore and move on.
this moron just doesn't know when to shut it.

[undertaker21]

I'm being owned?:oldlol: the burden of prof is on you. i've already proven my point. kobe has been excellent defensively this year.
you've proven that Kobe's dick is so far down your throat that it reaches your retina and blinds your vision. Congratulations. Tell him what he's won..

http://media.herald-dispatch.com/blog/tuned/uploaded_images/Bob-Barker-760154.jpg

"Kobe's nut sack! Worth an estimated 5 million dollars. Thanks for playing!"

[Jacks3]

sad.

[undertaker21]

sad.
So just one last question for you... You are saying that Kobe does not sag off of his opponents at the 3 point line nor does he play roaming defense correct?

[DCL]

you've proven that Kobe's dick is so far down your throat that it reaches your retina and blinds your vision.

that's some deep throating.

[cotdt]

Lakers are playing like a lottery team right now but just wait until the playoffs, the Lakers will show they are a force to be reconed with.

[undertaker21]

Lakers are playing like a lottery team right now but just wait until the playoffs, the Lakers will show they are a force to be reconed with.
Kobe and Shaq have already proved to the world that sometimes the greatest opponent is your own ego. The current Lakers have several of them on the team, Kobe and Bynum happen to be two of the biggest ones. The Lakers without a doubt have the most talented roster in the league, but unfortunately the games aren't won on paper. Not discounting them by any means, but they sure aren't a lock to win it all as was predicted by most when the season started.

[Jacks3]

He does a excellent job of recovering even when he does sag. That's one of the biggest reasons the Lakers are the best in the league at defending the three. Besides, Phil Jackson coached teams have always been known to be willing to give up the three instead of lay-ups off penetration.

[undertaker21]

He does a excellent job of recovering even when he does sag. That's one of the biggest reasons the Lakers are the best in the league at defending the three. Besides, Phil Jackson coached teams have always been known to be willing to give up the three instead of lay-ups off penetration.

"undertaker21: So does 2 + 2 = 4?

Jacks3: Well when you subtract 1 from that it = 3.

undertaker21: But does 2 + 2 = 4?

Jacks3: Fact. When you multiply the answer by 3 and subtract 5 it = 7.

undertaker 21: So does 2 + 2 = 4?

Jacks3: Well even when it does, you add 1 to it and it = 5."

LMAO :roll: I rest my ****ing case... I might as well be arguing with George W. Bush.

[Jacks3]

Wow. WTF? I give a simple answer and dude can't even comprehend it. :roll:

[undertaker21]

Wow. WTF? I give a simple answer and dude can't even comprehend it. :roll:
It was a yes or no question dumbass.

[Jacks3]

Basketabll isn't such a simple game, idiot. Good lord.

[undertaker21]

Basketabll isn't such a simple game, idiot. Good lord.
Clearly. Otherwise you'd be good at it.

[Jacks3]

sure buddy...

[undertaker21]

sure buddy...
Anyways i'm tired of owning you. I mean you argued in a ginormous circle about a point that you practically admitted to in the end anyways.. But again, you would never completely admit to it so i'll do the Laker community a favor and judge your groupie self as an individual rather than assuming the rest of the Laker fans are as dumb and homerish as you are. Most Laker fans on here are knowledgeable about the team and can look at the team objectively without Kobe's arabian goggles in their eyes. I bid you farewell as it is clear that in a battle of wits, you are unarmed. Later.

[Jacks3]

yeah, i'm tired of presenting objective facts to your ridiculous hyperbole(dumass still has no prof :oldlol: ). good night.

[gyu]

he makes 3s in every game.. against every single player.. and this happens for every single shooter in the league.. they make shots. They are in the NBA for a reason, because they can make shots.

Are you saying that you expect Kobe to be the only player in the history of basketball to go out there and not let the guy he is guarding (who is not even a superstar player that the D is focused on stopping mind you) not take a shot?
That's not it, it's the fact that Kobe cheats on defense, A LOT when he has to guard a guy with limited offensive game. Lots of defensive stoppers have scored in double digits/above their average against Kobe from Quinton last night, to Sefalosha, to Afflalo, to Battier.

[gyu]

And also to Jack,
Maybe Kobe has those great defensive stats because he defends guys with extremely limited offensive games almost all the time?

[undertaker21]

And also to Jack,
Maybe Kobe has those great defensive stats because he defends guys with extremely limited offensive games almost all the time?
Don't waste your time on him. I mean it's obvious to those of us with human sized brains.

[Jacks3]

And also to Jack,
Maybe Kobe has those great defensive stats because he defends guys with extremely limited offensive games almost all the time?
*shrug* Kobe guards SG's. That's how it should be. Artest is the better defender so,naturally, he should get the other teams best player. The point is that Kobe has played excellent defense on who he's been asked to guard and he (and the rest of the Lakers) have done a excellant job guarding the three-point line( best in the NBA). Unfortunately, idiots like undertaker can't seem to comprehend these rather simple facts.

[YAWN]

Question for you. Would you call Allen Iverson a great defender in his prime?
no..

[YAWN]

That's not it, it's the fact that Kobe cheats on defense, A LOT when he has to guard a guy with limited offensive game. Lots of defensive stoppers have scored in double digits/above their average against Kobe from Quinton last night, to Sefalosha, to Afflalo, to Battier.
yes he does gamble a lot and go for steals or goes to help in the post. And on occasion leaves his man wide open for a 3. But I can't recall more than 5 times this season that I have seen that scenario play out. During the first third of this season most peoples were saying he was playing better D than he had since the 3 peat days..

Really the only starter on the team that hasn't been up to par on D has been fisher. artest is playing really great defense this year. gasol and bynum aren't playing as good as they could on that end, but still above average.

[fubu05]

yes he does gamble a lot and go for steals or goes to help in the post. And on occasion leaves his man wide open for a 3. But I can't recall more than 5 times this season that I have seen that scenario play out. During the first third of this season most peoples were saying he was playing better D than he had since the 3 peat days..

Really the only starter on the team that hasn't been up to par on D has been fisher. artest is playing really great defense this year. gasol and bynum aren't playing as good as they could on that end, but still above average.

So you've only seen about 2 Lakers game this entire season?

[undertaker21]

*shrug* Kobe guards SG's. That's how it should be. Artest is the better defender so,naturally, he should get the other teams best player. The point is that Kobe has played excellent defense on who he's been asked to guard and he (and the rest of the Lakers) have done a excellant job guarding the three-point line( best in the NBA). Unfortunately, idiots like undertaker can't seem to comprehend these rather simple facts.
Lol, let me get this straight. Now after saying that the Lakers are the best team at defending the 3 point line solely because of Kobe now you are admitting that Kobe doesn't guard the opposing team's best perimeter player nor is he even the Lakers best defender, and now saying the rest of the team has done a great job on perimeter defense?

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgmp0163+homer-simpson-doh-the-simpsons-mini-poster.jpg

[undertaker21]

no..
Well the same theory applies. Allen Iverson was never a great one on one defender either, but roaming and playing the passing lanes had people talking about him and his solid defense. Of course that's an extreme example and Kobe can play good man D when he wants to. The problem is that he doesn't actually do it very often.

[YAWN]

So you've only seen about 2 Lakers game this entire season?
ive watched about 95% of all their games this season..

[YAWN]

Well the same theory applies. Allen Iverson was never a great one on one defender either, but roaming and playing the passing lanes had people talking about him and his solid defense. Of course that's an extreme example and Kobe can play good man D when he wants to. The problem is that he doesn't actually do it very often.

He does it every game... not for the full game, but every game he breaks out the man to man D. I don't think anyone expects him to come out and go balls out for every minute that he is on the floor, especially not when hes guarding a role player.

[fubu05]

ive watched about 95% of all their games this season..

Then you should know its happened way more than 5 times this season.

Btw. Your avatar, :bowdown: She's so hot.

[Waking_Life]

Then you should know its happened way more than 5 times this season.

Btw. Your avatar, :bowdown: She's so hot.


Your all over the phuckin' place man.

[fubu05]

Your all over the phuckin' place man.

? What do you mean? :confusedshrug:

[gyu]

*shrug* Kobe guards SG's. That's how it should be. Artest is the better defender so,naturally, he should get the other teams best player. The point is that Kobe has played excellent defense on who he's been asked to guard and he (and the rest of the Lakers) have done a excellant job guarding the three-point line( best in the NBA). Unfortunately, idiots like undertaker can't seem to comprehend these rather simple facts.
Kobe does not guard SG's if they have an offensive game most of the time, such as when they played the Heat(guarded Richardson), and right now as they are playing the Magic (guarding Barnes)

[SEEBASS1234]

Funny how these cry to the media antics are never heard from the Cavaliers or Mike Brown

Lakers what, only 3 games back and we've heard over 20+ of these whiney "he's mean to me" type comments from that team this season. Shut up already and just play

:no:

[chris02jammers]

i dont remember the cavs players pointing fingers at each other when they got blown out by the same bobcats team.
i dont remember the lakers players as well pointing fingers at each other when they got blown out by the same bobcats team

bobcats owned the Lakers and Cavs