ESPN's 30 for 30: Reggie Miller vs the NY Knicks

[MK2V1GP]

Its about to start on ESPN. Anyone else going to watch this? THIS was during the NBA's golden years. I wish there were rivalries today like there were back then. I wish that all the rules were the same and that players wouldnt get suspended for 15 games if they pushed another player.

I think this'll be the best 30 for 30 yet. I loved "The U" episode. This should be interesting too. I always loved watching Reggie give Spike the choke hold lol.

Who's watchin?

[magnax1]

I'm watching it.

[RealKnowledge]

Its about to start on ESPN. Anyone else going to watch this? THIS was during the NBA's golden years. I wish there were rivalries today like there were back then. I wish that all the rules were the same and that players wouldnt get suspended for 15 games if they pushed another player.

I think this'll be the best 30 for 30 yet. I loved "The U" episode. This should be interesting too. I always loved watching Reggie give Spike the choke hold lol.

Who's watchin?

Yeah shoving and pushing should be cool. But when punches start swinging they should throw in suspensions

[MK2V1GP]

Hahaha, John Starks about to get shitted on.

[WhySoInsecure?]

Reggie is a *****, drag queen looking mofo.

[DuMa]

what do you know, reggie was annoying on the court as well....

[TryToBeUnbias]

Reggie on his sasha 4.0 act :oldlol:

[Dasher]

LOL Reggie was like Ric Flair.

[MK2V1GP]

Wow. I can't believe some of you didn't know Reggie was a big trash talker. Most of you can't be any older than 18 if you don't remember Reggie's earlier years.

He was trash talking, flopping, acting, faking, sharp shooter lol. Oh, and a liar too since he never admitted he trash talked back then. lol.


I never liked John Starks. I loved Pat Ewing, but not Starks.

[puppychili]

Reggie is the most overrated player ever. The fact that he has this documentary is a joke. He was 3-3 against them in the playoffs including the loss in 99 when the Pacers were favored to win it all.

Everyone talks about how clutch he was but he never did shyt in June. Dude was nothing but Mr May.

Dude had two memorable games against the Knicks and he gets a doco called Winning Time. How lame.

[MK2V1GP]

Reggie is the most overrated player ever. The fact that he has this documentary is a joke. He was 3-3 against them in the playoffs including the loss in 99 when the Pacers were favored to win it all.

Everyone talks about how clutch he was but he never did shyt in June. Dude was nothing but Mr May.

Dude had two memorable games against the Knicks and he gets a doco called Winning Time. How lame.

:roll:

Are you :mad: ?

[TennesseeFan]

Reggie Miller was the player that I wanted to be, everybody wanted to shoot like Reggie Miller the Knick Killer. Of course people wanted to be MJ too... which MJ owned Reggie everytime haha. I still love the Pacers and hate on the Knicks to this day.

[Doranku]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: @ Spike being a bandwagoner.

[Dasher]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: @ Spike being a bandwagoner.Ewing getting drafted did coincide with his film career picking up to the point where he could actually afford tickets.

[MK2V1GP]

LOL @ Pacers fans crying b/c they didnt take Alford lol.

[Rekindled]

what do you know, reggie was annoying on the court as well....

how old are u

[DuMa]

when the Pacers picked Reggie, Steve Alford looked maaaaaaaaaaaaad

[Doranku]

when the Pacers picked Reggie, Steve Alford looked maaaaaaaaaaaaad

:oldlol: Dude was FURIOUS

[MK2V1GP]

Hahahaha. Cheryl>>>>Reggie

poor kid.

Reggie: "I scored 40!!!! How'd you do?"
Cheryl: "I scored 105."

priceless.

[Abd El-Krim]

Some pretty epic Miller/Alford video, complete with necks crying about the Reggie pick.

[WhySoInsecure?]

God I miss the good ol Knicks

[puppychili]

:roll:

Are you :mad: ?
More like annoyed that a guy has a rep that he totally doesn't deserve.

I hate Kobe too but at least Kobe has done stuff. Reggie never did anything.

And instead of busting out the tired "u mad", why don't you point out where I'm wrong.

[MK2V1GP]

Anthony Mason is HUUUUUGE now lol

[Rameek]

REAL BASKETBALL! :lol

The NBA is too friendly now....

[MK2V1GP]

THOSE were the days. All those fouls and fights and scruffles. Yessir!

[Dasher]

Gotta love Anthony Mason and Oak vs. The Davis Boys. They should have put those cats in a steel cage with Rick Mahorn as the special guest referee.

[MK2V1GP]

More like annoyed that a guy has a rep that he totally doesn't deserve.

I hate Kobe too but at least Kobe has done stuff. Reggie never did anything.

And instead of busting out the tired "u mad", why don't you point out where I'm wrong.


Are you :mad: ? is the same thing as "u mad"? lol. jus kiddin man.

I agree. Reggie never won anything, but you can't say what you said. He was the greatest 3 point shooter ever and a top 50 player ever.

[ProfessorMurder]

That fight montage made me happppppppppppppppppppppy! :pimp:

[6thManOfTheYear]

im loving this. :lol

the fkn 90s

[ProfessorMurder]

Hahahaha. Cheryl>>>>Reggie

poor kid.

Reggie: "I scored 40!!!! How'd you do?"
Cheryl: "I scored 105."

priceless.

That story is in his Beyond the Glory. So awful for him.

[MK2V1GP]

NBA on NBC!!!! Gosh those were the best days for NBA!

[Abd El-Krim]

This shit is too good.

[MK2V1GP]

That story is in his Beyond the Glory. So awful for him.

Yeah, I've heard the story before, thats why I said priceless. its just so funny everytime I hear it.

[MK2V1GP]

Wow. Spike is TRASH talking. Dang!!! hahahaha. All that laughing he was doing at Reggie was great. I remember these games, but we didnt get to see this kind of footage.

[DuMa]

the cheryl chants were priceless :oldlol:

[MK2V1GP]

Hahah, Spike is the lil kid who couldnt play but was always talkin trash. Little man syndrome.

[Dasher]

The Knicks need to get good again for more Spike Lee action. He was hilarious during The Ewing era, now he just sits at games with his brow furrowed and sad.

[MK2V1GP]

This shit is too good.

Agreed. I knew this was going to be good, but this is one of the best sports documentaris I've seen in a while.


Lol @ Spike already being quite.

[TryToBeUnbias]

ROFL @ SPIKES FACE ! :roll:

[J-Futuristic]

LMAO Reggie was gangsta

[puppychili]

Are you :mad: ? is the same thing as "u mad"? lol. jus kiddin man.

I agree. Reggie never won anything, but you can't say what you said. He was the greatest 3 point shooter ever and a top 50 player ever.

I'd put him in top 100 and Steve Kerr is statistically a better 3 point shooter.

[MK2V1GP]

Hahaha, Knicks fans hate Spike

[RoseCity07]

Man I want to watch this but the Blazer game is on. SMH.

Maybe they will replay it.

[MK2V1GP]

"Spike is my dog's name" lol

[MK2V1GP]

Man I want to watch this but the Blazer game is on. SMH.

Maybe they will replay it.

They always replay 30 for 30 like ten times that week, but I'm not sure if its the whole 90-minute thing. I think sometimes they cut it down to an hour.

[TryToBeUnbias]

WOW at some of those posters.

[MK2V1GP]

Man, entire arena's back then, all the fans were goin crazy. These days, people are sittin back, chillin, texting on their phone and hardly paying attention, even in playoff games.

[MK2V1GP]

Reggie chokes.

[TryToBeUnbias]

Man, entire arena's back then, all the fans were crazy. These days, people are sittin back, chillin, texting on their phone and hardly paying attention, even in playoff games.

Yes the noise in the arenas nowadays are on mute compared to the old days.

[MK2V1GP]

Wow. Reggie was crushed, cryin like that. Dang.

[DuMa]

hahaa i laughed when vecsey said when jordan retired, the playing field was level again. :oldlol:

[Doranku]

Man, entire arena's back then, all the fans were goin crazy. These days, people are sittin back, chillin, texting on their phone and hardly paying attention, even in playoff games.

Yeah, it's a shame arenas aren't rocking like that Pacers crowd. The NBA really has declined so much in this past decade. :(

[ProfessorMurder]

Yes the noise in the arenas nowadays are on mute compared to the old days.

I was at game 5 of Celtics/Bulls last year. That was one of the most intense things I've ever been in/around.

[Rameek]

The NBA is too friendly now... too many buddies on the court... to much love for one another...

[6thManOfTheYear]

i miss the 90's :ohwell:

[J-Futuristic]

You see how Reggie was able to grab his nuts. If someone were to do that today it would be a public out roar, maybe even a suspension.

[Doranku]

The NBA is too friendly now... too many buddies on the court... to much love for one another...

Yeah. You could tell that Ewing and Miller had respect for one another during the post-game exchange during Game 7. But on the court, they were both ruthless and put the personal shit behind.

Nowadays, we have cats like LeBron and Wade laughing and joking the entire game. Then we got LeBron storming off like a school girl after he loses a Playoff series. People knock on Reggie for being a bad commentator, annoying, and all that. But you could see how crushed he was during that post-game interview after that series, but he still was enough of a man to shake hands and pay respects to the team that beat him.

/end LeBron rant

[MK2V1GP]

The NBA is too friendly now... too many buddies on the court... to much love for one another...

I agree. And there aren't any hard fouls allowed anymore. A regular foul back then is a flagrant/tech in these days.

And players are too friendly these days. They can respect each other, but still go at it. All this off the court love is frustrating. I'd rather LeBron and Melo and Kobe and Wade all hate each other the way MJ hated Reggie, etc.

[MK2V1GP]

"it happened"

[TennesseeFan]

"Spike is my dog's name" lol
:lol

[MK2V1GP]

watching spike on the sideline jumpin up and down, wavin his towel makes him look like Eddie House's son when he was on Boston's bench lol.

[MK2V1GP]

Hahaha, Starks=epic choke

[DuMa]

reggie looked like a damn alien.

[MK2V1GP]

That wouldve been a foul called on Reggie pushing down Greg Anthony at the end if it happened today.

[MK2V1GP]

Hahaha, Reggie in the post game interview: "John Starks choked"

said it like it was. you'd never hear someone say that these days.

[Doranku]

:oldlol: @ Reggie just casually throwing in "John Starks choked" during that interview.

[puppychili]

And if Ewing doesn't blow a layup in game 7, Pacers lose.

[DuMa]

that angel of death costume at the rear of the knicks' bench was gold :lol

[Rameek]

Grim Reaper classic :lol :roll:

[Doranku]

omgggggg. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: @ the dude in the Grim Reaper costume hovering over the Knicks bench.

[MK2V1GP]

I miss the intensity and heart that NBA players used to play with. Only a handful of players today play that way.

[TennesseeFan]

LOL @ Angel of Death behind the Knicks bench XD

[LebrickJames84']

hahaa i laughed when vecsey said when jordan retired, the playing field was level again. :oldlol:

Jordan was better than anyone from 84'-98'. Including Magic and Bird statistically in their primes, just wasn't winning games then. Not even LeBron is head and heels better than the competition when you look at guys like Kobe,Wade,Durant,Melo


This was when the NBA was the NBA, so many rivalries

[ProfessorMurder]

I wish a Knicks/Bulls or Bulls/Pistons documentary will be made in the near future.

[Rameek]

Can you believe the pre-empted the game to show the oj chase.... it had to be the worse thing that ever happened...

I remember sitting in the MSG bar pissed people were yelling and screaming at the TV....

[LebrickJames84']

John Starks has to be one of the most overrated players in the NBA because he was actually good and played for NY when they were good. LeBron needs to play in ny next year

[puppychili]

Knicks/Bulls would be kinda boring considering Jordan completely owned them.

Now thats winning time. :D

[MK2V1GP]

You knew they had to do something about Allen Iverson. Ugh. There's so many better things that could be done than Iverson's problems when he was a kid at Gtown.

[J-Futuristic]

That Iverson Documentary is going to be dope.

[MK2V1GP]

Smits is 7'4, why the heck didnt he do the jump balls? lol

[MK2V1GP]

Hahahah, Spike wearin a towel over his head

[MP25]

Man, I forgot how much I hated John Starks. I remember watching this game as a small boy. Man I loved Reggie Miller, and now I hate him because he had to go on and be a commentator and bring his sister along with him.

[MK2V1GP]

I wonder how many people in NY cried that night after Ewing missed that layup?

[DuMa]

aww that missed layup for ewing set many years of depression for the knicks

[MK2V1GP]

Even though I wasn't a Knicks fan, I felt so bad for Ewing after watching that happen.

[Scoooter]

I can't believe that Knicks team never won the Championship. Poor Pat.

Also, I despise Cheryl Miller. Annoying.

[ProfessorMurder]

Even though I wasn't a Knicks fan, I felt so bad for Ewing after watching that happen.

I still feel terrible for him.

[MK2V1GP]

Too bad they ran into Shaq and the Magic the next round lol

[MK2V1GP]

I can't believe that Knicks team never won the Championship. Poor Pat.

Also, I despise Cheryl Miller. Annoying.

x2

Must run in the family. We know how annoying Cheryl and Reggie are, could you imagine Thanksgiving Dinner at their family table?

[KenneBell]

:applause:

That was pretty damn good. Reggie and Spike had me rolling.

[6thManOfTheYear]

30 for 30 is so epic. :applause:

[ProfessorMurder]

when the Pacers picked Reggie, Steve Alford looked maaaaaaaaaaaaad

Someone needs to make a gif of that.

[MK2V1GP]

That was definitely the best "30 for 30" ESPN has done so far.

[TennesseeFan]

What a lame ending to a documentary.

Reggie: "The only thing I regret is that it wasn't in the Conference Finals."

Screen: "The Knicks and the Pacers are still looking for their first title since 1973."

Way to make it look like a mediocre story.

[Roundball_Rock]

I wonder how many people in NY cried that night after Ewing missed that layup?

My sister did.

JVG made a good point: that shot played into the "Ewing is a choker" perception and people forgot that without Ewing the series would have never come down to the final shot of a Game 7 (Ewing had the game winner in Game 5 along with other great performances in the series).

Excellent documentary, although the detour to diminish the 94' Bulls was shameless but this is ESPN and that was not unexpected since they have so much invested on a certain thing.

:oldlol: at the sequence to end Game 1 of the 95' ECSF. What was Mason thinking? At least Starks' choking is somewhat understandable but Mason?

Another minor problem with the documentary is it makes it seem these teams did nothing after 95' when in fact both remained contenders until 2000 or 2001. The Knicks reloaded with Houston, Spree, and LJ while the Pacers just kept on chugging.

I loved the Pacers-Knicks rivalry. The Knicks-Heat one was even more intense but nothing can top the drama that the Pacers-Knicks rivalry had.

The Bulls-Knicks rivarly was good too but not a real rivalry since one team won 4 times out of 5 and a ref bailed the Knicks out when the Knicks squeaked by and that was even with the Bulls' best player playing baseball.

[6thManOfTheYear]

That was definitely the best "30 for 30" ESPN has done so far.that Miami Hurricanes documentary is up there tho. :cheers:

[puppychili]

Reggie Miller is nothing but hype.

:roll: at Winning Time ending with Reggie and the Pacers choking vs the Knicks in 99

[MK2V1GP]

that Miami Hurricanes documentary is up there tho. :cheers:

No doubt. I already mentioned that earlier in this thread. They are definitely 1 and 1A so far.

[MK2V1GP]

I loved the Pacers-Knicks rivalry. The Knicks-Heat one was even more intense but nothing can top the drama that the Pacers-Knicks rivalry had.

The Bulls-Knicks rivarly was good too but not a real rivalry since one team won 4 times out of 5 and a ref bailed the Knicks out when the Knicks squeaked by and that was even with the Bulls' best player playing baseball.

Those Knicks/Heat games were the most vicious, violent and nastiest games during the '90s. Too bad there's nothing even CLOSE today compared to how things were in the '90s. :(

[LebrickJames84']

My sister did.

JVG made a good point: that shot played into the "Ewing is a choker" perception and people forgot that without Ewing the series would have never come down to the final shot of a Game 7 (Ewing had the game winner in Game 5 along with other great performances in the series).

Excellent documentary, although the detour to diminish the 94' Bulls was shameless but this is ESPN and that was not unexpected since they have so much invested on a certain thing.

:oldlol: at the sequence to end Game 1 of the 95' ECSF. What was Mason thinking? At least Starks' choking is somewhat understandable but Mason?

Another minor problem with the documentary is it makes it seem these teams did nothing after 95' when in fact both remained contenders until 2000 or 2001. The Knicks reloaded with Houston, Spree, and LJ while the Pacers just kept on chugging.

I loved the Pacers-Knicks rivalry. The Knicks-Heat one was even more intense but nothing can top the drama that the Pacers-Knicks rivalry had.

The Bulls-Knicks rivarly was good too but not a real rivalry since one team won 4 times out of 5 and a ref bailed the Knicks out when the Knicks squeaked by and that was even with the Bulls' best player playing baseball.

Roundball you have so much basketball knownledge it is pretty unreal, but why let all that go to waste by your crazy statments on Jordan not being good or even the best player on his team? :confusedshrug:

[magnax1]

Why did it stop after the 95 series? Didn't they play in 98, 99 and 00 too?

[MK2V1GP]

Why did it stop after the 95 series? Didn't they play in 98, 99 and 00 too?

During some of the credits, they showed a couple of plays from the 99 series I think, or maybe 98. It was LJ's 4 point GW play, whatever year that was from, I don't remember.

[OneMoreSucka]

Why did it stop after the 95 series? Didn't they play in 98, 99 and 00 too?
Without Riley, it lost it's flair.

[Roundball_Rock]

Those Knicks/Heat games were the most vicious, violent and nastiest games during the '90s. Too bad there's nothing even CLOSE today compared to how things were in the '90s.

I don't know how much of that is a NBA thing and how much of it is cultural. You hear a lot of the same stuff in auto racing, both in NASCAR and Formula One. There are no real rivalries there, even though 20 years ago there were some good ones (Earnhardt vs. Waltrip, Senna vs. Prost, etc.). In football rivalries are alive and well but franchises seem to mean more in football. Players change but rivalries remain. In basketball once the principal players, and sometimes the coach, leave the rivalry seems to die out, with the exception of the Lakers vs. Celtics rivalry. Could the problem be that players today make too much money and are too big celebrities that they do not care that much about beating a particular team like Reggie did with the Knicks? Of course, players have long been rich so I don't know how much of a factor that is. It could just be a cultural shift. Or it could just be a matter of timing. You need teams to meet up in the playoffs a few times for a rivalry to develop. We had that with the Lakers/Kings and to a lesser extent Suns/Spurs in recent years and may have that with the Cavs/Magic but the passion is not the same as the Knicks/Heat or the Knicks/Pacers. Those teams hated each other!


why let all that go to waste by your crazy statments on Jordan not being good or even the best player on his team

:confusedshrug:

I said Jordan was the best player on the team.


one team won 4 times out of 5 and a ref bailed the Knicks out when the Knicks squeaked by and that was even with the Bulls' best player playing baseball.

I have him #3 or #4 all-time and he is the GOAT non-center imo.

[Brandon Roy]

I used to HATE Reggie.

Now I wish the League had someone like him.

[sportsfan76]

That Iverson Documentary is going to be dope.

when is the iverson documentary scheduled?

[magnax1]

During some of the credits, they showed a couple of plays from the 99 series I think, or maybe 98. It was LJ's 4 point GW play, whatever year that was from, I don't remember.
Yeah, I saw that, but still it just seemed to stop at a random time.

[Desperado]

NBA on NBC!!!! Gosh those were the best days for NBA!

NBA on NBC was better then today's broadcasts but NBA on CBS was GOAT and the best days for the NBA though.

[Al Thornton]

good stuff

[Da_Realist]

Man, did y'all see Anthony Mason?? Hit the gym, Mase! :eek:

[guy]

Excellent documentary, although the detour to diminish the 94' Bulls was shameless but this is ESPN and that was not unexpected since they have so much invested on a certain thing.


LOL what detour? This documentary had nothing to do with the Bulls. They didn't talk about any of the series in the 94 playoffs at all except for Pacers-Knicks. They didn't even mention that the Knicks lost to the Rockets after that. LOL @ so much invested. Yes, which is why along with the supposed purposeful "diss" to the 94 Bulls, they also dissed Jordan by showing Ewing's press conference where he implied that Jordan got favorable treatment. This is the same ESPN, who about a year ago, 15 freaking years later wrote a detailed article with literally no prompt talking about how the Bulls got screwed in 94. Even though we disagree on things, I usually think somewhat highly of you, but WOW YOU ARE FUC*ING PATHETIC.

Anyway, a few thoughts about the documentary:

Great documentary

Anthony Mason looks mean as f***.

Anyone catch that d*ck move by that fan who threw the towel at Ewing after he missed the finger roll? LOL.

Although Ewing is definitely worthy of the label "choker" by superstar standards, they could have at least given the man his due and mentioned the ridiculous game 7 in 94 he had vs. the Pacers where he had 24pts/22rb/7ast/5blk.

[Roundball_Rock]

LOL what detour? This documentary had nothing to do with the Bulls.

You must have been on a bathroom break during the detour. :oldlol: The Bulls vanished from the scene because they were nothing without MJ, thereby opening the door for the Knicks and Pacers. Never mind that the Bulls narrowly beat the Knicks in 93' who then narrowly beat the Bulls in 94'. Of course, this was ESPN (edit: ESPN and Hollywood filmmakers) and the way they presented it raised the stakes for the series because it implied it opened a brief window for both teams. That is more dramatic than saying the Bulls remained contenders and that the Pacers and Knicks remained contenders until 2001.


Although Ewing is definitely worthy of the label "choker" by superstar standards,

A lot of that is perception. Have you ever looked at Reggie's Game 7 record? It isn't great. Ewing did suck in the 94' finals but he had huge Game 7's in both the ECF and ECSF.

[Indian guy]

That was terrific. I had a bunch of relatives visiting today and they couldn't be further from NBA fans, but they were all hooked once I forced 'em to watch it. Great stuff.

[guy]

You must have been on a bathroom break during the detour. :oldlol: The Bulls vanished from the scene because they were nothing without MJ, thereby opening the door for the Knicks and Pacers. Never mind that the Bulls narrowly beat the Knicks in 93' who then narrowly beat the Bulls in 94'. Of course, this was ESPN (edit: ESPN and Hollywood filmmakers) and the way they presented it raised the stakes for the series because it implied it opened a brief window for both teams. That is more dramatic than saying the Bulls remained contenders and that the Pacers and Knicks remained contenders until 2001.


I reedited my post a little so reread it. I know exactly what you're talking about. Why the hell would they talk more about the 94 Bulls WHEN IT WASN'T ABOUT THEM? They mentioned Jordan, because that was a very clear feeling at the time. Everyone had a better chance with him being retired, and the Knicks who had lost to the Bulls 4 out of the last 5 years and were contenders at the time were clearly the biggest beneficiary of it. Like I said, YOU'RE FU*KING PATHETIC.

Did you try to get Jordan's autograph one day and he told you to FU*K OFF and then Pippen let you cry on his shoulder and took you out for ice cream?

[Roundball_Rock]

They mentioned Jordan, because that was a very clear feeling at the time. Everyone had a better chance with him being retired, and the Knicks who had lost to the Bulls 4 out of the last 5 years and were contenders at the time were clearly the biggest beneficiary of it

Of course but they made it seem as if the Bulls vanished from the scene. If they were going to invoke Jordan at least be historically correct and mention the tough series the Knicks had against the Bulls to get to the ECF.

The clear feeling at the time also was that the Bulls would indeed vanish from the scene and be in the lottery. Even Phil Jackson predicted a 42-40 record for the Bulls. I know some were desperately hoping these predictions would have proved correct but they didn't. :rockon:

Anyway, I couldn't not comment on that after watching the documentary but this thread is about Miller vs. the Knicks. There is no need to turn it into another bashfest of the 94' Bulls. I am sure you enjoyed the Knicks-Pacers ECF.

[puppychili]

You must have been on a bathroom break during the detour. :oldlol: The Bulls vanished from the scene because they were nothing without MJ, thereby opening the door for the Knicks and Pacers. Never mind that the Bulls narrowly beat the Knicks in 93' who then narrowly beat the Bulls in 94'. Of course, this was ESPN (edit: ESPN and Hollywood filmmakers) and the way they presented it raised the stakes for the series because it implied it opened a brief window for both teams. That is more dramatic than saying the Bulls remained contenders and that the Pacers and Knicks remained contenders until 2001.



A lot of that is perception. Have you ever looked at Reggie's Game 7 record? It isn't great. Ewing did suck in the 94' finals but he had huge Game 7's in both the ECF and ECSF.

So it's just a coincidence that the two years the Knicks made the Finals were the two years after Jordan retired. The Knicks gave the Bulls a battle in 93 but it didn't even go 7. Jordan retiring in 93 absolutly opened a window for the Knicks. Thats not Hollywood and ESPN, thats fact. Jordan owned the Knicks and him retiring meant that their biggest obstacle was gone.

The Pacers were never all that. The only year they were truly looked at as a title contender was 99 and that was only because they took the Bulls to 7 games the year before. A Bulls team that wasn't around anymore because Jordan had retired again and everyone else left.

But you are right about Reggies game 7 record. His only good games were in the second round and early games of the Conf Finals. All of these games were in May. In the late games of the Conf Finals and in the NBA Finals (which were in June) he didn't do jack, which is why I call him Mr. May.

[guy]

Of course but they made it seem as if the Bulls vanished from the scene. If they were going to invoke Jordan at least be historically correct and mention the tough series the Knicks had to get to the ECF.

The clear feeling at the time also was that the Bulls would indeed vanish from the scene and be in the lottery. Even Phil Jackson predicted a 42-40 record for the Bulls.

This was an hour and a half documentary about two teams, not a 4 hour summary of the whole 94 season. Why do they need to mention that series? They didn't mention the Hawks-Pacers series either even though Pacers upset the no. 1 seed in that series. Why's that? Cause both series had absolutely nothing to do with the Pacers-Knicks story. They invoked Jordan to illustrate that they had a better shot to win the title. You're a joke.

[Roundball_Rock]

This was an hour and a half documentary about two teams, not a 4 hour summary of the whole 94 season. Why do they need to mention that series?

Two teams. So why invoke Jordan and inaccurately present what happened to the Bulls?


So it's just a coincidence that the two years the Knicks made the Finals were the two years after Jordan retired.

Is it a coincidence that Ewing missed the finger roll the year Jordan came back? :eek: On a serious note, 94' is legit; 99' is not. The Bulls weren't going to beat the Knicks even if everyone came back in 99'. Plus in 94' the Knicks DID have tough series against the Bulls and the Pacers. It isn't as if with Jordan gone they coasted to the finals and it isn't as if Jordan's teams were sweeping the Knicks. Plus, the Knicks lost to teams other than the Bulls in 95', 97', 98', 99', 00', and 01' when they had good team. They lost because they weren't good enough despite having opportunities to win rings. They were a good team but could not reach that next step. Fine. Plenty of teams are like that. Think the 00's Mavs and 00's Suns for example.


The Knicks gave the Bulls a battle in 93 but it didn't even go 7

A shot here and there and it easily would. If Charles Smith isn't stuffed at the end of Game 5 there is a Game 7. If Pippen doesn't hit those clutch shots with the shot clock expiring in Game 6 the Bulls may lose that game. It wasn't as if the Bulls "owned" the Knicks and steamrolled them. They beat them in 7 in 92' and the 93' series was close. 94' continued the trend, albeit with the Knicks winning that time.

Of course they had a better shot without Jordan but the documentary made it seem as if the Bulls vanished from the scene, which is a joke.


The Pacers were never all that. The only year they were truly looked at as a title contender was 99 and that was only because they took the Bulls to 7 games the year before.

They made the ECF in 94', 95', 98', 99', and the NBA finals in 00'. That isn't a title contender?

Anyway, let's stick to the Knicks and Pacers. I made a passing comment in a fairly long post and guy, predictably, went nuts as he does whenever the 94' Bulls are mentioned.


But you are right about Reggies game 7 record. His only good games were in the second round and early games of the Conf Finals. All of these games were in May. In the late games of the Conf Finals and in the NBA Finals (which were in June) he didn't do jack, which is why I call him Mr. May.

He was clutch but a lot of this "clutch" talk is based on perception and cherry picking good games for those deemed clutch and bad games for others. Miller is in the former category and Ewing in the latter. Were they equal clutch performers? Of course not. Give me Miller. My point is the extent of the difference is exaggerated by simplistic "clutch" and "choker" labels. When you are talking about a long career there will be a lot more nuance involved. Ewing in 94' is a perfect example. He had huge Game 7's in both the ECSF and ECF. If it weren't for that he never would have been in the finals, where he underperformed.

[RoseCity07]

Reggie Miller was so hilarious:oldlol:

"John look at the score board".

"John look at your stat line, you're a starting point guard, and look at your stat line".:roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

Reggie Miller was so hilarious:oldlol:

"John look at the score board".

"John look at your stat line, you're a starting point guard, and look at your stat line".:roll:

:oldlol:

I loved the shot where Reggie was grinning when it was clear he had rattled Starks. And also :lol at Miller's interview after Game 1 in 95' where he got in some more Starks bashing. It is a shame we don't have a Reggie in the league right now.

Starks had a great life story but he did choke big in Game 7 of the 94' finals and then again in Game 1. Missing TWO FT's? He was a great defender, though, and a scrappy player who got the maximum out of his ability.

[RoseCity07]

I remember playing Kobe Bryant in NBA courtside for N64. I always traded Miller to the Blazers and played my brothers. I won games shooting 3 pointers all game with Miller. It was amazing.

[Disaprine]

I saw this today, great documentary :applause:

[Roundball_Rock]

Miller hitting that 3 and then "stealing" :lol the ball and hitting another 3 is my favorite stick and ball sports sequence. (Earnhardt Sr. coming from 18th with 4 laps to go to win>that imo) That is why you watch the entire game or race. For those rare, special moments that you can talk about 50 years from now when you are an old man.

[BFRESH44]

Anthony Mason is pushing 400lbs. Damn dude let himself go :eek:

[KG215]

I didn't get to see the original airing earlier tonight but am watching now.

Damn good documentary. That era of the NBA (since I was a pre-teen; 6-12) for most of the 90's was the most influential on me as an NBA fan. I miss the teams and players having a genuine hate for their opponents and biggest rivals. I remember growing up just thinking fights and hard fouls were a part of the game. If you've become a fan of the game in the past 10 yeras, though, you'd think fighting, hard fouls, physical play, etc. are all crimes. Screw liking each other. Let the players build up a disgust and hate towards their biggest rivals. If you get beat and don't want to shake the other team's hand after you've lost a big game to a rival, so what. The NBA has lost a lot of it's competitive edge over the lsat 20-30 years. The game was brutal in the 80's and 90's and that was just a part of it.

They made a great point during the documentary, the Bulls and Celtics had a series go 7 games last year, 4 of the games went to OT, and outside of Boston and Chicago fans don't really talk about it. We're talking about two of most storied franchises in the NBA playing one of the GOAT playoff series and it's almsot become an afterthought less than a year later. The only thing that diminishes it is that it was a 1st round matchup between the 2 and 7 seeds.

[JustinJDW]

I got this recorded on my DVR. Gonna watch it tomorrow. Can't wait!!! :rockon:

[lilojmayo]

I saw this today, great documentary :applause:

A great documentary. Really enjoyed. Basketball seems to have the best documentaries out of any sport. Reminds me of all the Jordan and Bulls video's of the late 80s and 90s. I think it really showed how great Michael Jordan really was, not many players in any sport maybe the exception of Prime Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, Usain Bolt, guys could leave just so the "playing field could be even".

Really shows just how dominate and impactful MJ was. I don't even think we will see that type of dominance again, not even LeBron James.

[guy]

Two teams. So why invoke Jordan and inaccurately present what happened to the Bulls?

Anyway, let's stick to the Knicks and Pacers. I made a passing comment in a fairly long post and guy, predictably, went nuts as he does whenever the 94' Bulls are mentioned.


They invoked Jordan retiring to present the situation the Knicks and the Pacers were in. The biggest obstacle in the league and in the East was gone, which meant the Knicks and Pacers window got wider. They didn't bother mentioning the Bulls that year that much, because at that point, as in the 94 ECF, it didn't really matter who they faced up to that point. Like I said, it would've been just as pointless if they mentioned the Hawks series where the underdog Pacers upset the no. 1 seed.

LOL at me "predictably going nuts whenever the 94 Bulls are mentioned". I'm predictable when you're the one with the agenda to diminish Jordan whatever chance you get, as you clearly did in a thread that had nothing to do with Jordan/Pippen/Bulls and when no one else even brought them up? You're acting like I'm the one that brought it up. How often do I ever jump into these pointless arguments with you or anyone about the 94 Bulls? That team for whatever reason is brought up every single day here in multiple threads, and its funny cause you're usually in most of them. I don't have time nor do I care enough for that s**t. You're the pathetic joke that types out these biblical verses regularly to diminish Jordan, and actually believes there's this conspiracy from ESPN to prop him up every little chance they get like he's Obama or something.

Seriously its one thing if this thread had anything to do with Jordan or the Bulls, but that was completely off-topic and its stupid agendas like that that are making this board full of sh*t.

[Roundball_Rock]

I think it really showed how great Michael Jordan really was, not many players in any sport maybe the exception of Prime Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, Usain Bolt, guys could leave just so the "playing field could be even"

Now that is a legit point. With Jordan gone there were several legit contenders: Houston, Phoenix, Utah and arguably also San Antonio and Seattle in the West and New York, Indiana, Atlanta, and yes, Chicago in the East (sorry guy :oldlol: ). With him the Bulls winning would have been a foregone conclusion. With him gone we saw one of the most competitive seasons ever.

As to ESPN, they are on record via their magazine on this topic. Surely you have a copy of that issue? I don't have a problem with them mentioning Jordan. What I have a problem with is acting as if the Bulls collapsed without him, which was clearly implied, hence the insertion of that Miller quote at the end ("What would the Bulls be without Jordan?" with the Bulls going from champions to not making the ECF implying the answer to that question was they were nothing without him. I know some desperately hoped that would be the case but it wasn't, even with the Hollins intervention that some jumped up with joy when it happened, and documentaries are suppose to historically accurate. This wasn't a run-of-the-mill ESPN segment). Calm down and maybe you will realize this. Now care to comment on the documentary? It was a great documentary and both the 94' and 95' series were great, although one team did not deserve to be there in 94'.

[ProfessorMurder]

Dale Davis/Antonio Davis/Anthony Mason/Charles Oakley = SCARY MOTHERF*CKERS!

[Diesel J]

Some pretty epic Miller/Alford video, complete with necks crying about the Reggie pick.

:roll: Alford and his family were mad as hell

[DuMa]

yeah i wished they focused a little bit more on the davis boys vs oak/mason. those 4 really were into each other's faces....

[Diesel J]

That fight montage made me happppppppppppppppppppppy! :pimp:

too bad they can't have those anymore:lol

[godofgods]

Reggie Miller is nothing but hype.

:roll: at Winning Time ending with Reggie and the Pacers choking vs the Knicks in 99

That series was rigged though. Can't blame Reggie for that. It was a precursor to the debacle that was Kings Vs Fakers 2002.

[Meticode]

I watched the second showing on this on ESPN2. I became a NBA watcher in 96 right after this rivalry died out. Miller was just ridiculous. Watching games back in the 90s, then watching games like today kind of makes me sick to my stomach with how much players just easily go to the basket.

[JMT]

A great watch. Showed how pussified the league has become; half the contact shown during the doc would have resulted in flagrants and ejections in today's "kindler, gentler" NBA. Just shows the difference when men play for pride and their livlihood, as opposed to teenagers playing for a paycheck.

Also, I hope all those that want to try, however feebly, to diminish Jordan and his impact, paid attention. Prideful professionals willingly saying "Mike was gone, so everybody else had a chance". Not a player in today's game that would generate that respect, and rightfully so.

Miller's 8 pts in .18 or whatever it was is one of my favorite sequences in sports history. Very enjoyable.

[NYCPG]

Anyone got a link for a torrent?

[UK-NJ]

Anyone got a link for a torrent?

http://www.mixmakers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=191117&p=1876973

Found that if you don't mind the quality being average.

[bagelred]

Missed it. I'm DVRing it tonight. It's on at Midnight.