If Lebron wins 1 ring...top 10 GOAT?

[TheLogo]

Given that Lebron is a very dominant player....if he only wins one ring or two rings would he jump pass everyone to the top 5 GOAT?

It's been 7 years of dominance, his individual stats says it all....now he can win a max of 2 rings and would surpass the Shaqs, Duncans and Kobes.

Where Kobe isn't as dominant but he has won 4 rings to crack the top 10 when Lebron is so great, he can just win 2?

Thoughts?

[Lebron23]

4x NBA Regular Season MVP
3x NBA Finals MVP
3 or more NBA Scoring title

= top 5 player of all time.

[TheLogo]

4x NBA Regular Season MVP
3x NBA Finals MVP
3 or more NBA Scoring title

= top 5 player of all time.

That's what I am thinking too. He is so dominant that winning only 2 rings will get him top 5 GOAT.

Where you got guys like Kobe who got their with rings....Lebron doesn't need all those rings.

[RealKnowledge]

That's what I am thinking too. He is so dominant that winning only 2 rings will get him top 5 GOAT.

Where you got guys like Kobe who got their with rings....Lebron doesn't need the rings.
He said 3 rings if you knew how to read lmfao

[G-train]

Definitely a top ten player ever.

[TheLogo]

Lebron can win less rings and reach top 5 where Kobe has freaking 4....and top 6 to 10.

[lilgodfather1]

With 1 ring he is top 15-20, with 2 he becomes 8-11 imo. So yes with 2 he could become top 10, but not top 5. 3 gets him to top 5 though.

[Duncan21formvp]

4x NBA Regular Season MVP
3x NBA Finals MVP
3 or more NBA Scoring title

= top 5 player of all time.

I agree.

[lilgodfather1]

Lebron can win less rings and reach top 5 where Kobe has freaking 4....and top 6 to 10.
LeBron is a better and more dominant player than Kobe ever was though. Plus he would win the rings as the best player on the team, something Kobe has only done once. Kobe really only has 1 ring plus 3 half rings.

And no way no how is Kobe top 6 ahead of Duncan. Kobe isn't even top 10 yet, more like 11 or 12.

[G-train]

Rings have far to much bearing on whether a player is great or not around here.

Like what if Baylor had have played out his final season - does that make him a better player for winning that final championship?

Just watch the players and make informed judgements. Lebron is top 10 right now.

[TheLogo]

If he keeps playing the way he does....he doesn't need to win any rings to crack top 10.

[1987_Lakers]

Hakeem only has 1 NBA MVP and 2 rings and most people have him in the top 10. LeBron by the end of the season will have his 2nd MVP and counting and he is a more dominant player than Hakeem, so yes I would put LeBron in the top 10 if he only wins 1 ring.

[phazed out]

hahaha damn ya'll cats are delusional and E!SPN has brainwashed you guys. If Bron wins 1 ring, hes in the top 20.

[juju151111]

I agree. LJ stats seems to keep rising and his Playoffs #s are already better then most. He still has 5 prime years left too. He wins two has the man will bump him. If you have Wilt in your top 10 pls don't argue otherwise are ur a idiot.

[TheLogo]

I hate to say it but Lebron can pass Kobe as one of the greatest players of all time, with less rings.

[Lebron23]

I hate to say it but Lebron can pass Kobe as one of the greatest players of all time, with less rings.

He needs to have more regular season MVP, Scoring titles, and Finals MVP than Kobe Bryant.

[RealKnowledge]

hahaha damn ya'll cats are delusional and E!SPN has brainwashed you guys. If Bron wins 1 ring, hes in the top 20.
Haha exactly and if he doesnt do it in a dominating fashion top 20 would be pushing it

[G-train]

hahaha damn ya'll cats are delusional and E!SPN has brainwashed you guys. If Bron wins 1 ring, hes in the top 20.

I'd put Lebrons best seasons already against just about anybodies. Cant think of 10 better players right now.

[AirJordan&Magic]

LeBron is a better and more dominant player than Kobe ever was though. Plus he would win the rings as the best player on the team, something Kobe has only done once. Kobe really only has 1 ring plus 3 half rings.

And no way no how is Kobe top 6 ahead of Duncan. Kobe isn't even top 10 yet, more like 11 or 12.

The LeBron23 guy is the only LeBron James fan that have made a reaonable comment on this thread.
You, on the other hand, are delusional. Kobe has 4 championships, I do not care about any foolish logic you try to come up with to change that. Sidekick or not, he has 4 rings.

And if LeBron wins only 1 championship, anyone that ranks him higher than 15 is a moron. Moses Malone won 3 Mvps and one championship yet he is never ranked above 13 in many list I see. Why is LeBron any different?

[Roundball_Rock]

He already is top 20 all=time. If he wins a ring, has 2 MVP's he would be somewhere in the top 15 but reaching the top 10 will take a greater body of work. The real question is not the top 10 but where he will wind up in the top 5. 1st or 5th?

Lebron23, there are not fixed benchmarks for rankings. Jordan became the majority GOAT with 3 rings and 3 MVP's even though:

*Kareem had 6 rings and 6 MVP's
*Russell had 11 rings and 5 MVP's
*Wilt had 2 rings and 5 MVP's
*Magic had 5 rings and 3 MVP's
*Bird also had 3 rings and 3 MVP's

If Lebron can get to 3 he will enter the GOAT conversation. :cheers:

[AirJordan&Magic]

4x NBA Regular Season MVP
3x NBA Finals MVP
3 or more NBA Scoring title

= top 5 player of all time.

Agreed. If he does achieve these feats, he is EASILY a top 5 player.

[TheLogo]

The LeBron23 guy is the only LeBron James fan that have made a reaonable comment on this thread.
You, on the other hand, are delusional. Kobe has 4 championships, I do not care about any foolish logic you try to come up with to change that. Sidekick or not, he has 4 rings.

And if LeBron wins only 1 championship, anyone that ranks him higher than 15 is a moron. Moses Malone won 3 Mvps and one championship yet he is never ranked above 13 in many list I see. Why is LeBron any different?

Moses Malone?...as great as he was...he's not as good as Lebron.

[AirJordan&Magic]

He already is top 20 all=time. If he wins a ring, has 2 MVP's he would be borderline top 10. The real question is not the top 10 but where he will wind up in the top 5. 1st or 5th?

Lebron23, there are not fixed benchmarks for rankings. Jordan became the majority GOAT with 3 rings and 3 MVP's even though:

*Kareem had 6 rings and 6 MVP's
*Russell had 11 rings and 5 MVP's
*Wilt had 2 rings and 5 MVP's
*Magic and Bird also had 3 rings and 3 MVP's

If Lebron can get to 3 he will enter the GOAT conversation. :cheers:

LeBron is anywhere from top 20-30 right now imo. I personally wouldn't rank him higher than 20.

[AirJordan&Magic]

Moses Malone?...as great as he was...he's not as good as Lebron.

Moses Malone was a center. Not being sarcastic, just saying it is kind of weak to compare two different types of players.

[lilgodfather1]

The LeBron23 guy is the only LeBron James fan that have made a reaonable comment on this thread.
You, on the other hand, are delusional. Kobe has 4 championships, I do not care about any foolish logic you try to come up with to change that. Sidekick or not, he has 4 rings.

And if LeBron wins only 1 championship, anyone that ranks him higher than 15 is a moron. Moses Malone won 3 Mvps and one championship yet he is never ranked above 13 in many list I see. Why is LeBron any different?
If LeBron wins a ring this season and his second consecutive MVP then I put him between 15-20 like I already said. You are a moron though and an obvious troll so I don't expect you to know how to read. I told you how I have players ranked 1-12 and Kobe is 12. LeBron right now is on a level few have reached. Wilt, Jordan and LeBron are the three players on that level statistically.

[sixer6ad]

The LeBron23 guy is the only LeBron James fan that have made a reaonable comment on this thread.
You, on the other hand, are delusional. Kobe has 4 championships, I do not care about any foolish logic you try to come up with to change that. Sidekick or not, he has 4 rings.

And if LeBron wins only 1 championship, anyone that ranks him higher than 15 is a moron. Moses Malone won 3 Mvps and one championship yet he is never ranked above 13 in many list I see. Why is LeBron any different?

If you have to ask anyone to compare the games of Moses Malone and Lebron James, you are screaming to everyone about your lack of intelligence on the subject. Could you have chosen a worse comparison? Moses hit the boards over and over, made some post moves and turn around jumpers, and occasionally hit a mid-range jumper. He was tenacious and a ***** to play against - a great player. Lebron scores from every spot on the floor in any situation. He's the fastest player in the game from end to end. He's coming closer to anyone in modern history to averaging a triple-double. He's been good enough to lead Team USA, has an MVP, is the fastest player to every scoring statistic known to man, etc......

These two are TOTALLY DIFFERENT players, and most fans who watch the game would not even compare them. I'm not making the claim that LBJ is the greatest of all time; however, he is better than Malone in a number of categories.

[AirJordan&Magic]

If LeBron wins a ring this season and his second consecutive MVP then I put him between 15-20 like I already said. You are a moron though and an obvious troll so I don't expect you to know how to read. I told you how I have players ranked 1-12 and Kobe is 12. LeBron right now is on a level few have reached. Wilt, Jordan and LeBron are the three players on that level statistically.

And you were also the dumbass that said Kobe isn't top 10 because he doesn't have 30,000 points and he has "1 and three half rings". Who uses logic like this?....You were also the idiot that said "Kobe being named the player of the decade is like LeBron being named player of the decade" which is failure at its finest.

And what is that level you idiot? Elgin Baylor had a season averaging 38/17/4...Oscar averaged 30 ppg/ 12 rpg/ 11 apg.....Kobe averaged 35.4 apg, the highest ppg averaged since 1987 and then put up scoring numbers and records only comparable to Wilt, Jordan, and Baylor.

Anyway, in general, you write the most biased comments regarding LeBron and Kobe.

[AirJordan&Magic]

If you have to ask anyone to compare the games of Moses Malone and Lebron James, you are screaming to everyone about your lack of intelligence on the subject. Could you have chosen a worse comparison? Moses hit the boards over and over, made some post moves and turn around jumpers, and occasionally hit a mid-range jumper. He was tenacious and a ***** to play against - a great player. Lebron scores from every spot on the floor in any situation. He's the fastest player in the game from end to end. He's coming closer to anyone in modern history to averaging a triple-double. He's been good enough to lead Team USA, has an MVP, is the fastest player to every scoring statistic known to man, etc......

These two are TOTALLY DIFFERENT players, and most fans who watch the game would not even compare them. I'm not making the claim that LBJ is the greatest of all time; however, he is better than Malone in a number of categories.

What the hell are you talking about? I CLEARLY just said that comparing the games of LeBron and Moses is weak.

So I dont know where you get off questioning someone's intellegence. Try reading my entire post before running off at the mouth.

[TennesseeFan]

1 ring/16 seasons of pwning the NBA = Top 2 GOAT

[macpierce]

if lebron gets 4 finals mvps, ill put him in the top 5 maybe 4

[phazed out]

He already is top 20 all=time. If he wins a ring, has 2 MVP's he would be somewhere in the top 15 but reaching the top 10 will take a greater body of work. The real question is not the top 10 but where he will wind up in the top 5. 1st or 5th?

Lebron23, there are not fixed benchmarks for rankings. Jordan became the majority GOAT with 3 rings and 3 MVP's even though:

*Kareem had 6 rings and 6 MVP's
*Russell had 11 rings and 5 MVP's
*Wilt had 2 rings and 5 MVP's
*Magic had 5 rings and 3 MVP's
*Bird also had 3 rings and 3 MVP's

If Lebron can get to 3 he will enter the GOAT conversation. :cheers:

http://i47.tinypic.com/abnpkn.jpg

[dyna]

If he wins this year regular seaon MVP, Finals MVP and a Ring

I would rank him between 14-20 all time...

[lbj23clutch]

If he keeps it up and continues to play at a high level and finishes with a ring and finals MVP this year, then I would rank him around top 15 alltime greats.

[LBJ_MVP09]

Not just defending Lebron, but the whole rings argument is retarded. If Lebron was playing with Chauncy Billups, Pau Gasol, and Amare Stoudemire and they all kept playing well and won the title the next three seasons, that would be 3 rings Lebron won as "the best player" or "first option". So despite his stats not getting any better, he would jump into the top 10 or top 5 based on those 3 rings + stats? While his stats barely have him in top 25?

So GOAT status depends on your management getting you a stacked ass team. Gotcha. Why didn't i think of that.... You guys are too good for me :rolleyes:

[lilgodfather1]

And you were also the dumbass that said Kobe isn't top 10 because he doesn't have 30,000 points and he has "1 and three half rings". Who uses logic like this?....You were also the idiot that said "Kobe being named the player of the decade is like LeBron being named player of the decade" which is failure at its finest.

And what is that level you idiot? Elgin Baylor had a season averaging 38/17/4...Oscar averaged 30 ppg/ 12 rpg/ 11 apg.....Kobe averaged 35.4 apg, the highest ppg averaged since 1987 and then put up scoring numbers and records only comparable to Wilt, Jordan, and Baylor.

Anyway, in general, you write the most biased comments regarding LeBron and Kobe.
In general you have no clue what you are talking about. I said that for Kobe to make my top 10 as in exclusively to me (even though half of the board shares the view that Kobe is not top 10 and it is only Kobe fans that think he is) Kobe needs either one more championship or to get that next milestone points wise. And Elgin, Oscar, Wilt numbers are all great and they should not be penalized for putting up the best numbers they could in a weak and fast paced era, but they are not that mid blowing when you do consider the pace. LeBrons adjusted numbers for the same season Oscar put up the TD is 40/11/10. Even MJs numbers while great his best season statistically his team was last in the league in pace, great feat all things considered, but in todays league his teams pace would be the 4th fastest in the league. Not trying to take away from them, but everyone says the Suns system inflates stats because of their pace, well everyone of those players played at very fast paces compared to todays league.

The only two players to have multiple seasons of 30/7/7 are Oscar and LeBron (If LeBrons points hold up), the only two players to have 6 seasons of 27/7/7 are Oscar and LeBron, the only two players to have 7 straight years to start their careers of 20/5/5 are Oscar and LeBron. There are many other stats that point to LeBrons season being a great one, actually just the raw statline says that, but stats like PER that takes pace into consideration is the best one to compare players from different eras other than just raw stats and watching the games.

Back to the original question LeBron will not be a top 10 GOAT if he wins a ring, but with a 2nd MVP and a ring and a finals MVP he moves up to 15-20, simplay astounding the movement that he could have in one seasons work.

[lilgodfather1]

LeBron is not top 25 yet to anyone I hope. That really under rates a ton of players. LeBron should be around 40 on everyones AT list not 20.

[crisoner]

1 ring.....I say he has to win two tops...

[alenleomessi]

He will be the best of all time with 5 rings
Book it:cheers:

[MakeHistory78]

No.....
Top-15 Yes.
LeBron is the best player in the world today and he is the best I've ever seen since 1998!

But with 1 ring he isn't a Top-10 player!After his 2nd Ring yes!
Oscar Robertson(1 ring) is Top-10 because his stats was amazing!

[Sakkreth]

Depends on how he wins those rings...

[rfm767]

Given that Lebron is a very dominant player....if he only wins one ring or two rings would he jump pass everyone to the top 5 GOAT?

It's been 7 years of dominance, his individual stats says it all....now he can win a max of 2 rings and would surpass the Shaqs, Duncans and Kobes.

Where Kobe isn't as dominant but he has won 4 rings to crack the top 10 when Lebron is so great, he can just win 2?

Thoughts?


so another kobe-hating thread, breaking news...

[PistonsFan#21]

so another kobe-hating thread, breaking news...

Kobe fans are the most insecure fans in the world along with Jordan fans...

[Cangri]

4x NBA Regular Season MVP
3x NBA Finals MVP
3 or more NBA Scoring title

= top 5 player of all time.
Won't argue with that, but can he really accomplish this?

[Dave3]

so another kobe-hating thread, breaking news...
There's nothing in the post you quoted that can possibly be misconstrued as Kobe hate...

[Spoken]

man...Lebron is the most physically gifted player I have YET to see. Skill wise he's just above average. If if wasn't for his physical gifts we wouldn't be discussing this at all. He's gotta do more than win 1 ring to be consider top 10. A lot of players have come and go that were freaks of nature but they aren't considered that high. I think Lebron has to do something no one has done before to be considered top 10.

[Dave3]

man...Lebron is the most physically gifted player I have YET to see. Skill wise he's just above average. If if wasn't for his physical gifts we wouldn't be discussing this at all. He's gotta do more than win 1 ring to be consider top 10. A lot of players have come and go that were freaks of nature but they aren't considered that high. I think Lebron has to do something no one has done before to be considered top 10.
Many many many players are gifted athletically but can't last in the league. LeBron can shoot 35% from 3, 40% from midrange, is excellent at finishing layups, has probably top 5 court vision in the league, top 5 passing in the league and very good handles. Even if LeBron was an average athlete he would still be a very good player, not just above average. But yeah, I'll agree that if it wasn't for his physical superiority this wouldn't be a discussion.

[Andrei89]

LoL

Insecure troll wanted to have options in case Kobe wins

[Sakkreth]

Those threads sucks, it depends how he wins it. He can even end as goat or out of top 20 still.

[JustSaying]

He will be the best of all time with 5 rings
Book it:cheers:
NOT, as Wade's sidekick? :no:

[King Lebron LBJ]

NOT, as Wade's sidekick? :no:

How can you be somebody's sidekick when you are better than him? :rolleyes:

[Yung D-Will]

Before he needed at least two rings to be top 10.

Now I don't even know maybe 4?

[King Lebron LBJ]

Before he needed at least two rings to be top 10.

Now I don't even know maybe 4?

So career 27, 7 and 7 numbers with two rings and likely 3 or 4 MVP's doesn't get into the top 10? please.

[Jacks3]

As long as he has the longevity and accolades, he's going down as a Top 10 player ever even if he wins 0 rings.

[Yung D-Will]

So career 27, 7 and 7 numbers with two rings and likely 3 or 4 MVP's doesn't get into the top 10? please.
No.

Top 10 has Duncan and Hakeem and Kobe protecting it. And there's no way winning a ring with Wade who's arguablly better then Lebron is gonna put him ahead of Duncan and Hakeem who were the only players to win a championship witout an all nba or all star teamate.


They had no legit second option on there championship runs

2002-2003 and 1993-1994 so why should I mention them in the same breath as someone who needed someone on his same level to win a championship.

[Yung D-Will]

As long as he has the longevity and accolades, he's going down as a Top 10 player ever even if he wins 0 rings.

Hmm? Since when do individual accolades and logevity allone get you into the top 10.

[King Lebron LBJ]

No.

Top 10 has Duncan and Hakeem and Kobe protecting it. And there's no way winning a ring with Wade who's arguablly better then Lebron is gonna put him ahead of Duncan and Hakeem who were the only players to win a championship witout an all nba or all star teamate.


They had no legit second option on there championship runs

2002-2003 and 1993-1994 so why should I mention them in the same breath as someone who needed someone on his same level to win a championship.

Using that logic Magic has no business being in the top 5 then. Every top player needs help more so now than ever. IfLebron has more MVP's, keeps up his career numbers and wins titles there is nothing to hold him back from the top 10. Just because he won with Wade doesn't matter if he is the best player, puts up great numbers and wins MVP you have to put him up there.

[JustSaying]

How can you be somebody's sidekick when you are better than him? :rolleyes:
That's what the Heat fans have been saying. Are you a Heat fan or just a Lebron fan?

[King Lebron LBJ]

That's what the Heat fans have been saying. Are you a Heat fan or just a Lebron fan?

I'm a Lebron fan but I want him to be successful and win titles so I will be rooting for Miami.

[Jacks3]

Because longevity, accolades, and prime/peak play are the most important things that matter. LeBron already has the historically great peak(09)/prime(06-10), and he may get better. Now all he needs is the accolades (All-NBA Teams/All-Defense Teams/MVP's/All-Star MVP's etc) and the longevity. And then you have a resume of a top 10 player ever.

[Yung D-Will]

Using that logic Magic has no business being in the top 5 then. Every top player needs help more so now than ever. IfLebron has more MVP's, keeps up his career numbers and wins titles there is nothing to hold him back from the top 10. Just because he won with Wade doesn't matter if he is the best player, puts up great numbers and wins MVP you have to put him up there.

Magic shouldn't be a top player?

When Kareem came to the Lakers he was past his prime already and Kareem already showed he can win a champonship as the "man"
And Magic also showed he was able to win it as the man look at Kareem when his production feel off.

Lebron will never be the man on Miami. Cause his own city doesn't even consider him better then Wade. And It's Wade's team



Magic was not playing at the level of a top 10 player all time for the first 4-5 years. Kareem wasn't playing at the level for his last 4-5. They didn't call each other up and decide to combine together in their PRIMES along with another guy who is the best at his position to chase rings. This is an unprecedented move.

[King Lebron LBJ]

Magic shouldn't be a top player?

When Kareem came to the Lakers he was past his prime already and Kareem already showed he can win a champonship as the "man"
And Magic also showed he was able to win it as the man look at Kareem when his production feel off.

Lebron will never be the man on Miami. Cause his own city doesn't even consider him better then Wade. And It's Wade's team

Stuff like that takes time, when they start playing it will be clear who the man is in Miami. Lebron is a better player and if he is leading the team and winning MVP's it will be obviously that it is Lebron's team. ASt the end of the day whoever's the best player it is his team. Wade has been there longer so there is more respect. Help or not if Lebron keeps these career numbers up wins MVP's and wins titles you simply can't keep him out of the top 10. Not a chance in hell.

[Yung D-Will]

Because longevity, accolades, and prime/peak play are the most important things that matter. LeBron already has the historically great peak(09)/prime(06-10), and he may get better. Now all he needs is the accolades (All-NBA Teams/All-Defense Teams/MVP's/All-Star MVP's etc) and the longevity. And then you have a resume of a top 10 player ever.

No.

I'd have no reason to put him above a player like Oscar,Barkley or Malone just based on individual accolades. Every top 10 player has at least two rings because winning is important

I base my ranking off of

Peak:
Prime:
Consistency/Longevity:
Career(Accolades):
Championships(As the man):
Playoff performances:

[Yung D-Will]

Stuff like that takes time, when they start playing it will be clear who the man is in Miami. Lebron is a better player and if he is leading the team and winning MVP's it will be obviously that it is Lebron's team. ASt the end of the day whoever's the best player it is his team. Wade has been there longer so there is more respect. Help or not if Lebron keeps these career numbers up wins MVP's and wins titles you simply can't keep him out of the top 10. Not a chance in hell.

There's no way anyone who's logical is gonna put him above Duncan,Hakeem,Shaq or Kobe based off winning two titles with Wade.

Not a chance in hell

[King Lebron LBJ]

No.

I'd have no reason to put him above a player like Oscar,Barkley or Malone just based on individual accolades. Every top 10 player has at least two rings because winning is important

Indeed it is but so are numbers and impact of games. Lebron will likely clearly have an advantage over many players in the top 10 based on numbers alone. If he has more MVP's and wins titles it will be tough not to have him in there.

[niko]

How can you be somebody's sidekick when you are better than him? :rolleyes:
Because he follows Wade. If i have a 6'9'' 900 pound guy who does everything i tell him to do and follows me like a puppy, he's my sidekick despite being able to kill me.

A sidekick is not the weaker person, it's the follower.

[King Lebron LBJ]

There's no way anyone who's logical is gonna put him above Duncan,Hakeem,Shaq or Kobe based off winning two titles with Wade.

Not a chance in hell

Depends how well he plays what numbers he puts up and how he helped them win the titles.

[King Lebron LBJ]

Because he follows Wade. If i have a 6'9'' 900 pound guy who does everything i tell him to do and follows me like a puppy, he's my sidekick despite being able to kill me.

A sidekick is not the weaker person, it's the follower.

Please, so just because Lebron decides to not response to the comments he has had it makes Wade the boss and Lebron the sidekick? :oldlol: laughable

The leader and best player will be decided on the floor not off the floor.

[niko]

Indeed it is but so are numbers and impact of games. Lebron will likely clearly have an advantage over many players in the top 10 based on numbers alone. If he has more MVP's and wins titles it will be tough not to have him in there.

You act like a computer makes a list. It's people, the same people right now who are shitting on him for going to Miami. He needs to do extraordinary things now in terms of winning to move up the pantheon because the people who will be writing the list, they moved him down the pantheon with this move.

DOn't tell me it's fair or unfair, life is unfair. Fact is fact.

[King Lebron LBJ]

You act like a computer makes a list. It's people, the same people right now who are shitting on him for going to Miami. He needs to do extraordinary things now in terms of winning to move up the pantheon because the people who will be writing the list, they moved him down the pantheon with this move.

DOn't tell me it's fair or unfair, life is unfair. Fact is fact.

It's damn obvious nobody would want to post much positive comments about Lebron right now but over time and if and when he wins titles and wins MVP's he will be considered high again. Just the way sport works. Winning solves alot of problems.

[Jacks3]

I didn't say just individual accolades, I said a combination of prime/peak play, accolades, and longevity. If LeBron plays another 7-8 years at his current level (longevity), makes All-NBA first teams/All-Defense teams/MVP's (accolades), he's going down as Top 10 ever. Maybe top 5.

[Yung D-Will]

Depends how well he plays what numbers he puts up and how he helped them win the titles.

Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem

Never won their championships as the man

with someone who is equal to them or arguably better. That's the difference

I'm not saying he's gonna be a top 10 player I'm saying with two rings in his situation is really pushing it

[niko]

Please, so just because Lebron decides to not response to the comments he has had it makes Wade the boss and Lebron the sidekick? :oldlol: laughable

The leader and best player will be decided on the floor not off the floor.

Wade is the leader of the Miami team, not Lebron. There has not been 1 thing that has occured since Lebron signed to make me thing differently, from Wade being front and center in everything MIami did, to Wade defending Lebron like he's his big brother. And prior to Lebron being there, WAde was the man there.

Just because you have an infatuation with Lebron doesn't change this. It's Wade's team. People want to argue differenitly to make Lebron look better. Sorry...

[JustSaying]

I'm a Lebron fan but I want him to be successful and win titles so I will be rooting for Miami.
Fair enuff! Going back to topic, I think Lebron needs 2-3 finals MVP to make top 10. Do-able as long Riley keeps Wade's ego in check.

Would Wade hang around long enough when he feels he's been supplanted as "face of the team"?

[Yung D-Will]

I didn't say just individual accolades, I said a combination of prime/peak play, accolades, and longevity. If LeBron plays another 7-8 years at his current level (longevity), makes All-NBA first teams/All-Defense teams/MVP's (accolades), he's going down as Top 10 ever. Maybe top 5.

Lol o ok. We might as well play the sports for individual accolades then . I mean winning doesn't matter :rolleyes:

[Yung D-Will]

The Finals Mvp's are definitly gonna be a factor here. If Wade wins them it'll have a significant impact on Lebron's legacy

[niko]

It's damn obvious nobody would want to post much positive comments about Lebron right now but over time and if and when he wins titles and wins MVP's he will be considered high again. Just the way sport works. Winning solves alot of problems.

Believe what you want. i see what i see....

[Jacks3]

No.

I'd have no reason to put him above a player like Oscar,Barkley or Malone just based on individual accolades. Every top 10 player has at least two rings because winning is important

I base my ranking off of

Peak:
Prime:
Consistency/Longevity:
Career(Accolades):
Championships(As the man):
Playoff performances:
championships go with accolades, playof performances go with prime/peak play, unless you separate reguler season and post-season for evaluating seasons, which dont make no sense.

[King Lebron LBJ]

Wade is the leader of the Miami team, not Lebron. There has not been 1 thing that has occured since Lebron signed to make me thing differently, from Wade being front and center in everything MIami did, to Wade defending Lebron like he's his big brother. And prior to Lebron being there, WAde was the man there.

Just because you have an infatuation with Lebron doesn't change this. It's Wade's team. People want to argue differenitly to make Lebron look better. Sorry...

I'm sorry but the whole "this is his team" theory is always down to who the best player is. Nothing else. Obviously it is Wade's team now but when they start playing and win titles and if Lebron is winning the MVP's and finals MVP it will be clear who's team it really is.

For now? it's just great to think about these two great players playing together. There has been too much talk about legacy and top 10. Who cares for now? stuff like this isn't going to decided for a long time. How about just enjoying the NBA now.

[King Lebron LBJ]

The Finals Mvp's are definitly gonna be a factor here. If Wade wins them it'll have a significant impact on Lebron's legacy

I agree completely, Lebron has to be the man here and put up the bigger stats and win the MVP's. I expect he will though as he is younger and better all-round.

[Yung D-Will]

championships go with accolades, playof performances go with prime/peak play, unless you separate reguler season and post-season for evaluating seasons, which dont make no sense.

Championships vs Individual accolades are two diffrent things


Playoff performences = How you perform in the playoffs over your whole career.

[Yung D-Will]

I'm sorry but the whole "this is his team" theory is always down to who the best player is. Nothing else. Obviously it is Wade's team now but when they start playing and win titles and if Lebron is winning the MVP's and finals MVP it will be clear who's team it really is.

For now? it's just great to think about these two great players playing together. There has been too much talk about legacy and top 10. Who cares for now? stuff like this isn't going to decided for a long time. How about just enjoying the NBA now.

No not all.

Kg was the best player on Boston but everyone knew that it was Pierce's team.

Kg's words

Kg " This is Paul Pierces team he's been here the longest and has done the most for this franchise"

[niko]

I'm sorry but the whole "this is his team" theory is always down to who the best player is. Nothing else. Obviously it is Wade's team now but when they start playing and win titles and if Lebron is winning the MVP's and finals MVP it will be clear who's team it really is.

For now? it's just great to think about these two great players playing together. There has been too much talk about legacy and top 10. Who cares for now? stuff like this isn't going to decided for a long time. How about just enjoying the NBA now.

i enjoy discussing history, legacy, etc. only the lebron fans want that stuff not to matter because he downgraded his. it's not like there are games to discuss - the season has not started. Miami has no team yet.

Miami is WADE'S team. Delusional Lebron fans and fans who became Heat fans only after Lebron signed on (like you) are kidding yourself.

[crisoner]

Never will be top 5 right now unless he delivers what he said he would with the Heat....a string of championships I say at least 5.

[ginobli2311]

With 1 ring he is top 15-20, with 2 he becomes 8-11 imo. So yes with 2 he could become top 10, but not top 5. 3 gets him to top 5 though.

completely disagree.

where do you have karl malone all time?

most have him in the top 11 to 15. he doesn't have a ring and is not as dominant as lebron.

lebron is top 20 all time right now. if he wins a ring he is top 12.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

he would need a few rings with a few fMVPs just to catch Larry Bird, imo. probably need more than that since he is not THE MAN on the Heat.
with only 7 years in the league, and a couple MVPs, he really hasn't accomplished much yet. He has a long way to go.

right now, DWade has accomplished more.

[Yung D-Will]

completely disagree.

where do you have karl malone all time?

most have him in the top 11 to 15. he doesn't have a ring and is not as dominant as lebron.

lebron is top 20 all time right now. if he wins a ring he is top 12.
One ring he becomes another verison of Oscar.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

If Lebron is top 20, then DWade is top 19, at least.

[ginobli2311]

One ring he becomes another verison of Oscar.

exactly.

[ginobli2311]

If Lebron is top 20, then DWade is top 19, at least.

nah. lebron's consistency, 2 mvps, and better numbers rank him ahead of wade all time so far.

[ShaqAttack3234]

So career 27, 7 and 7 numbers with two rings and likely 3 or 4 MVP's doesn't get into the top 10? please.

You really think he's going to continue winning MVPs? His stats will likely drop a lot with Wade and Bosh. He won't be given as much credit even for a dominant W/L record either.

[Indian guy]

Everyone in the Top 10 has multiple championships. LeBron's not cracking that list with 1. He can, however, crack the Top 15 and it won't be much of a jump either. He's already Top 20.

[guy]

You really think he's going to continue winning MVPs? His stats will likely drop a lot with Wade and Bosh. He won't be given as much credit even for a dominant W/L record either.

If he puts up something like 26/9/8, which I think he's perfectly capable of even with this team, he's definitely an MVP candidate and will win more of those in the future. I do think next year that Kobe and Durant are probably bigger favorites especially cause these three will probably take some time to adjust to each other, but I think its way too premature to say Lebron won't win anymore MVPs. Lebron and Wade's stats are not going to go down in the same way the KG/Ray/Pierce did in 08. Maybe Bosh's will, but not those two.

[ginobli2311]

If he puts up something like 26/9/8, which I think he's perfectly capable of even with this team, he's definitely an MVP candidate and will win more of those in the future. I do think next year that Kobe and Durant are probably bigger favorites especially cause these three will probably take some time to adjust to each other, but I think its way too premature to say Lebron won't win anymore MVPs. Lebron and Wade's stats are not going to go down in the same way the KG/Ray/Pierce did in 08. Maybe Bosh's will, but not those two.

do people not remember that KG was third in the MVP voting in 08 averaging 19 points and 9 boards only playing in 71 games?

come on guys. lebron could easily average 26 points 9 boards 7 assists on 51% from the field. if he's the best player on the heat and they win 65 plus games next year....its going to be damn hard not to give him mvp.

[Yung D-Will]

do people not remember that KG was third in the MVP voting in 08 averaging 19 points and 9 boards only playing in 71 games?

come on guys. lebron could easily average 26 points 9 boards 7 assists on 51% from the field. if he's the best player on the heat and they win 65 plus games next year....its going to be damn hard not to give him mvp.

No it won't.
If Wade's right next to him putting up 27/8/5
and a team like the Thunder/Lakers or Nuggets has a similar record it's going to Durant,Kobe or Melo

[zizozain]

completely disagree.

where do you have karl malone all time?

most have him in the top 11 to 15. he doesn't have a ring and is not as dominant as lebron.

lebron is top 20 all time right now. if he wins a ring he is top 12.

you mean karl malone and lebron have the same level of mentality toughness?

[ginobli2311]

you mean karl malone and lebron have the same level of mentality toughness?

i have no idea what you are trying to say. my point is that lebron will most likely go down as better than karl malone even if he doesn't win a ring.

[ginobli2311]

No it won't.
If Wade's right next to him putting up 27/8/5
and a team like the Thunder/Lakers or Nuggets has a similar record it's going to Durant,Kobe or Melo

agreed. if the other teams have a similar record and a player on that team puts up similar numbers then its going to be harder for lebron to win another mvp.

but since when is wade going to average 8 boards on a team with bosh and lebron?

i'll bet anyone on this board that lebron wins at least 1 mvp in the next 6 years and is top 3 in mvp awards shares over the next 6 years as well.

[AirJordan&Magic]

In general you have no clue what you are talking about. I said that for Kobe to make my top 10 as in exclusively to me (even though half of the board shares the view that Kobe is not top 10 and it is only Kobe fans that think he is) Kobe needs either one more championship or to get that next milestone points wise. And Elgin, Oscar, Wilt numbers are all great and they should not be penalized for putting up the best numbers they could in a weak and fast paced era, but they are not that mid blowing when you do consider the pace. LeBrons adjusted numbers for the same season Oscar put up the TD is 40/11/10. Even MJs numbers while great his best season statistically his team was last in the league in pace, great feat all things considered, but in todays league his teams pace would be the 4th fastest in the league. Not trying to take away from them, but everyone says the Suns system inflates stats because of their pace, well everyone of those players played at very fast paces compared to todays league.

The only two players to have multiple seasons of 30/7/7 are Oscar and LeBron (If LeBrons points hold up), the only two players to have 6 seasons of 27/7/7 are Oscar and LeBron, the only two players to have 7 straight years to start their careers of 20/5/5 are Oscar and LeBron. There are many other stats that point to LeBrons season being a great one, actually just the raw statline says that, but stats like PER that takes pace into consideration is the best one to compare players from different eras other than just raw stats and watching the games.

Back to the original question LeBron will not be a top 10 GOAT if he wins a ring, but with a 2nd MVP and a ring and a finals MVP he moves up to 15-20, simplay astounding the movement that he could have in one seasons work.

So for the last time, you shameless homer, who are the 14 players you rank over Kobe?
I've asked you on three different threads and you still didn't answer. When you say bs like "This player is not top 10 because he doesn't have 30,000 points", you are not worthy of a reasonable argument.

[zizozain]

i have no idea what you are trying to say. my point is that lebron will most likely go down as better than karl malone even if he doesn't win a ring.
LOL you don't get it
everytime you compair lebron to aother players you mention
everything; dominance , physical and all aspects of the game.
and you never compair mental toughness which -by far- the most important aspect of the game

start doing that .. you will change your mind

[ginobli2311]

LOL you don't get it
everytime you compair lebron to aother players you mention
everything; dominance , physical and all aspects of the game.
and you never compair mental toughness ehich -by far- the most important aspect of the game

start doing that .. you will change your mind

i see no reason to rank mental toughness over tangible items. however....i also see no evidence that lebron is not mentally tough. i could point out dozens of example of the top ten players all time in which their mentality was anything but tough.

one series does not make a career. one game does not make a career. stop judging lebron's last 7 years based on 3 games in a 2nd round playoff series.

don't make me go down the laundry list of moments where shaq/kobe/jordan/pippen/malone/hakeem.....and many other greats lacked mental fortitude.

[zizozain]

i see no reason to rank mental toughness over tangible items. however....i also see no evidence that lebron is not mentally tough. i could point out dozens of example of the top ten players all time in which their mentality was anything but tough.

one series does not make a career. one game does not make a career. stop judging lebron's last 7 years based on 3 games in a 2nd round playoff series.

don't make me go down the laundry list of moments where shaq/kobe/jordan/pippen/malone/hakeem.....and many other greats lacked mental fortitude.
lol ok .. it's obvious that you never read anything about it.
not even 1 single page

sports Are 80 percent mental.
and in sports where hundredths of a second or tenths of an inch separate the champions from the mediocre athletes (eg basketball) it's 90% mental and only 10% physical.

Concentration, confidence, control and commitment (the 4C's) are generally considered the main mental qualities that are important for successful performance in most sports.

i never saw
shaq/kobe/jordan/pippen/malone/hakeem singing, dancing, storming off without shaking hands,treating Chicago Bulls towel boy like sh*t
or the dunk-on tape, the ''MY STAT'' shirt and the love of the lights and media.

these are signs of no self-confidence no focus no commitment and no control
signs of a weak mentality ..

[Disaprine]

lebron needs multiple rings, continue to play great and have 10+ seasons for me to put him in the top 20. I used the same measurement with kobe. :roll: at people who have him in the top 20 already :oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

If he puts up something like 26/9/8, which I think he's perfectly capable of even with this team, he's definitely an MVP candidate and will win more of those in the future. I do think next year that Kobe and Durant are probably bigger favorites especially cause these three will probably take some time to adjust to each other, but I think its way too premature to say Lebron won't win anymore MVPs. Lebron and Wade's stats are not going to go down in the same way the KG/Ray/Pierce did in 08. Maybe Bosh's will, but not those two.

I really don't see 26/9/8, Wade will need the ball a lot too because he creates and so will Bosh.

Lebron will probably get his 7 rpg, but he definitely won't be getting 8-9 apg and 26 ppg at the same time. Those 26 ppg are the max I see on this team and if he averages that then I see 6 apg max.

I'll predict 24/6/7. And don't forget, it'll also hurt his MVP chances that he'll be playing with a guy who has been considered by most to be a top 3 player the last 2 seasons. There will be countless debates about who is the most valuable player on the Heat, nevermind the whole league. As far as Wade, I see about 24 ppg as well with 5 rpg and 5 apg. 18/10/2 for Bosh.


do people not remember that KG was third in the MVP voting in 08 averaging 19 points and 9 boards only playing in 71 games?

A big part of that 3rd place MVP finish was because of how much he changed Boston's defense which became their strength.

[OneMoreSucka]

If Lebron wins one ring, his career will be unbelievably underwhelming and unimpressive.

[ShaqAttack3234]

lebron needs multiple rings, continue to play great and have 10+ seasons for me to put him in the top 20. I used the same measurement with kobe. :roll: at people who have him in the top 20 already :oldlol:

Multiple rings for top 20? Let me see your top 20 in no order.

[niko]

i see no reason to rank mental toughness over tangible items. however....i also see no evidence that lebron is not mentally tough. i could point out dozens of example of the top ten players all time in which their mentality was anything but tough.

one series does not make a career. one game does not make a career. stop judging lebron's last 7 years based on 3 games in a 2nd round playoff series.

don't make me go down the laundry list of moments where shaq/kobe/jordan/pippen/malone/hakeem.....and many other greats lacked mental fortitude.

the difference is outside of malone on that list, none of the listed players jumped to a team after winning no titles and gave up their alpha dog status. Shaq did it after winning 3 titles on his own, Kobe basically broke up a better team ebcause he wanted to be alpha dog, pippen won SIX titles and acted like an asshole when someone else (not him) was given the last shot.

Lebron jumped to a stacked team to win titles that one of his (276) best friends was the leader of.

ITS NOT THE SAME.

Are people just young and didn't watch the nba before or do they really believe Lebron has earned some sort of special treatment for his play?

[Doranku]

Thread should read "If Wade wins another ring... top 10 GOAT?" because at least that's an argument. How would a ring with Wade catapult LeBron ahead of Wade, who already has a ring, FMVP, and dominating finals performance?

Doesn't make sense.

[Disaprine]

Multiple rings for top 20? Let me see your top 20 in no order.
i said multiple rings for lebron.

top 10 no order

wilt
jordan
bill russel
hakeem
kareem
shaq
oscar robertson
kobe
bird
magic

11 to 20 no order

tim duncan
karl malone
barkley
west
john havlicek
dr. j
moses malone
Elgin baylor
john stockton
rick barry

[AirJordan&Magic]

i said multiple rings for lebron.

top 10 no order

wilt
jordan
bill russel
hakeem
kareem
shaq
oscar robertson
kobe
bird
magic

11 to 20 no order

tim duncan
karl malone
barkley
west
john havlicek
dr. j
moses malone
Elgin baylor
john stockton
rick barry

How you have Oscar Roberston in your top 10 list, but Tim Duncan lower is beyond me.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Here's how other players production has dropped after forming big 3s.

Wilt in '68- 24.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg, 8.6 apg, 59.5 FG%, 16.8 FGA
Jerry West in '68- 26.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 6.1 apg, 51.4 FG%, 18.3 FGA
Elgin Baylor in '68- 26 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 4.6 apg, 44.3 FG%, 22.3 FGA

All of them together in '69
Wilt- 20.5 ppg, 21.1 rpg, 4.5 apg, 58.3 FG%, 13.6 FGA
West- 25.9 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 6.9 apg, 47.1 FG%, 19 FGA
Baylor- 24.8 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 5.4 apg, 44.7 FG%, 21.5 FGA

Keep in mind, West and Baylor were already use to sharing the ball with another star and there were far more possessions available for star players to share the ball. But Wilt experienced a big decline in production. And keep in mind, Wilt had put those numbers up in '68 on a ridiculously stacked team.

Hakeem in '96- 26.9 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 3.6 apg, 51.4 FG%, 20.8 FGA
Drexler in '96- 19.3 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 5.8 apg, 43.3 FG%, 14.7 FGA
Barkley in '96- 23.2 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.7 apg, 50 FG%, 16.1 FGA

All of them together in '97
Hakeem- 23.2 ppg, 9 rpg, 3 apg, 51 FG%, 18.3 FGA
Drexler- 18 ppg, 6 rpg, 5.7 apg, 44.2 FG%, 14.5 FGA
Barkley- 19.2 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 4.7 apg, 48.4 FG%, 13.1 FGA

Dream and Barkley experienced noticeable declines in their scoring and shot attempts while Dream's rebounds dropped by 2 per game. Drexler's numbers fell off a bit as well, and that was with Drexler and Dream having 1 1/2 seasons together under their belt.

Shaq in '03- 27.5 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 57.4 FG%, 18.1 FGA
Kobe in '03- 30 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 45.1 FG%, 23.5 FGA
Malone in '03- 20.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.7 apg, 46.2 FG%, 15.9 FGA
Payton in '03- 20.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 8.3 apg, 45.4 FG%, 18.3 FGA

All of them together in '04
Shaq- 21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg, 58.4 FG%, 14.1 FGA
Kobe- 24 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.1 apg, 43.8 FG%, 43.8 FG%
Malone- 13.2 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 3.9 apg, 48.3 FG%, 9.5 FGA
Payton- 14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg, 47.1 FG%, 12.5 FGA

And that was with them not being on the court at the same time a lot. Malone played 42 games, Kobe played 65 and Shaq played 67. All of them saw huge declines in production and shot attempts.

Garnett in '07- 22.4 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 47.6 FG%, 17.6 FGA
Pierce in '07- 25 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.1 apg, 43.9 FG%, 18.1 FGA
Allen in '07- 26.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.1 apg, 43.8 FG%, 21 FGA

All of them together in '08
Garnett- 18.8 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 3.4 apg, 53.9 FG%, 13.9 FGA
Pierce- 19.6 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.5 apg, 46.4 FG%, 13.7 FGA
Allen- 17.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.1 apg, 44.5 FG%, 13.5 FGA

Enormous declines in production and shot attempts.

Like I said, I could see something like 24/7/6 for Lebron, 24/5/5 for Wade and 18/10/2 for Bosh.

[Disaprine]

How you have Oscar Roberston in your top 10 list, but Tim Duncan lower is beyond me.
i have timmy at #11 if it means anything. :oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

i said multiple rings for lebron.

top 10 no order

wilt
jordan
bill russel
hakeem
kareem
shaq
oscar robertson
kobe
bird
magic

11 to 20 no order

tim duncan
karl malone
barkley
west
john havlicek
dr. j
moses malone
Elgin baylor
john stockton
rick barry

Why does Lebron need multiple rings for top 20? Malone, Barkley, Baylor and Stockton never won rings and West, Dr. J, Moses, Oscar and Barry only won each with Dr. J's and Oscar's coming as 2nd options. I'm surprised to see Oscar top 10 and Stockton top 20?

I could see Lebron ending up in the 11-15 range without any rings, but top 10? He really needs a ring, more likely 2 for me to put him in.

[Disaprine]

Why does Lebron need multiple rings for top 20? Malone, Barkley, Baylor and Stockton never won rings and West, Dr. J, Moses, Oscar and Barry only won each with Dr. J's and Oscar's coming as 2nd options. I'm surprised to see Oscar top 10 and Stockton top 20?

I could see Lebron ending up in the 11-15 range without any rings, but top 10? He really needs a ring, more likely 2 for me to put him in.
basiclly lebron needs to win for me to put him in the top 20. i probably put barry and stockton to high up, i'll redo the list later. all of this is imo.

[Tez62]

i see no reason to rank mental toughness over tangible items.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Right there is where you FAIL at competitive sports.

[Yung D-Will]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Right there is where you FAIL at competitive sports.
How do you rank someone's mental toughness?

[TheLogo]

Another hit thread by the OP.

:applause:

[jbot]

LBJ wins ring w/ Cavs >>>>>>> LBJ wins ring w/ Heat.

[knickscity]

How do you rank someone's mental toughness?

Don't you think you have to mentally tough to make an all-time top list in the NBA?

It takes toughness just to have the accolades to get it.

I do think every player on anyone's top 20 are mentally tough.

[zizozain]

How do you rank someone's mental toughness?
you compair someone's mental toughness to other players the same way you compair everything else .. watch and read

[TheLogo]

The top 10 players of all-time have something that Lebron doesn't have....heart and toughness.

Lebron's logo is a lion and a cowardly one.

[KobeDaMamba]

LeWadezBytch aint making any top 10 list unless he shows some competitive spirt, mental toughness and heart. What good is talent when you're not utilising it to your benefit. This clown took the easiest way to success by teaming up with two other stars. One of them whose arguably better. Beats me. :confusedshrug:

[The_Yearning]

How do you rank someone's mental toughness?

Damn are you stupid? Watch the games.

[SinJackal]

LeBron's stats does not give him an edge at all.

Look up Dominique Wilkins' stats, and compare with LeBron's. Very similar. LBJ just gets a few more assists a game. . .that's the only real difference between the two. LeBron's stats are also clearly going to drop and stay down for as long as he plays on the Heat, unless Wade goes down with injuries for long periods of time. That certainly will hurt his career stats while he tries to make ring grabs.

LeBron needs at LEAST 3 rings to even get a whiff of top 10. You guys undervalue too many players and assume he deserves a top spot because you haven't seen older players play. LeBron has had an inferior career to dozens of players who are not top 10. Right now, the only thing LeBron has gotten that's worth anything are the MVP awards the last 2 years for basically being the best fantasy basketball player.


LeBron's 15-20 with one ring. 10-15 with 2. 9-10 with 3. (worse than Duncan imo). with 4, maybe 5-8 area. He'll never get above MJ even if he wins more than 6 due to the path he's taking, and that he's less dominant with lesser stats anyway. I don't think he gets above Russel either. Possibly above Kobe due to better stats, but he would need to at least match Kobe's ring totals, which I don't see happening. And at least Kobe won titles without Shaq. Is LeBron going to win any without Wade/Bosh? No.

[zizozain]

The top 10 players of all-time have something that Lebron doesn't have....heart and toughness.

Lebron's logo is a lion and a cowardly one.
he’s not a coward

''he’s not a cheater, he’s not a traitor,
Here’s what he is: a fraud. For the past few years, he led us to believe he was a man, when he’s actually a child. He led us to believe he was a galvanizing teammate who breaks his back for his team, when he’s actually more interested in everybody watching him. He’s not at all what we thought he was.

But now the truth is out. LeBron is not a man, he’s a boy. And his decision to run that special was the most self-indulgent, narcissistic action I’ve seen from an athlete. He wasn’t trying to be malicious to the Cavs. He’s just too immature and too in love with himself to realize how much of a jerk he was being. And we can never forget that. Nobody should look up to LeBron. Rather, until he finally grows up, we should look down on him.

Furthermore, LeBron’s obliviousness to the anger from the Cavs is astounding. He seems to think that Cavs fans should be grateful that he gave them seven years of his career. Sure, they were so damn lucky to have LeBron grace them with his presence, even though he didn’t deliver them a title, he only helped prolong their legacy of losing. He came to them an eighteen year old kid, played hard for seven years, and emerged from it a kid. Unbelievable how he’s still so immature.

The fact of the matter is that we set standards for the path LeBron should’ve followed, not him. And we can be disappointed in his narcissism, but not in the fact that he didn’t “follow MJ’s path.” It wasn’t our decision to make for LeBron. He has to blaze his trail. When all is said and done, when he’s retired, we can talk about how he didn’t meet his potential. But he won’t care. He’ll still have the most money. He’ll still have the most fame. He’ll probably buy a team when everything is said and done

But our blame runs deeper than how we discuss him now. Like it or not, every adoring fan and writer and broadcaster and commentator who lauded LeBron made this spectacle a reality. We gave him a moniker, “King James,” and crowned him lord of the NBA even though he didn’t even win a finals game, much less a title. We hailed his dunks and blocks and unbelievable. And we, even myself, blamed everybody but him when things went sour for the Cavs.

For me, last Thursday was a revelation. For seven years, no, ten years, we’ve been feed this kid’s ego, making him larger than life, making him a king he wasn’t worthy of becoming. He earned too much adulation too fast, and now he feels infallible. That’s why “The Decision” happened. His narcissism and his ego is massive and unchecked. Who do you think would say to LeBron, “maybe you shouldn’t rub your decision in Cleveland’s face on national television”? Absolutely nobody. Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve created a monster. A basketball dribbling, money toting, fame seeking monster. And with all the fuss he’s created in Miami, LeBron will only grow bigger. It will only get more spectacular, for better or for worse.

Welcome to LeBron’s world. Time of Departure: Nobody knows.''

Michael Sloan - July 16, 2010

http://sports.insidepulse.com/2010/07/16/full-court-press-inside-the-complexities-of-the-lebron-saga/

[AlexanderRight]

Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem

Never won their championships as the man

with someone who is equal to them or arguably better.t

what the **** are you smoking?

[Sarcastic]

To be perfectly honest, had Lebron stayed in Cleveland and never won a ring, but still continue to put up enormous stats, there is a chance he would crack the top 10. That is how dominant his production has been. The reason for him never winning would have been attributed to never having good enough teammates, but his production would speak for itself. Now his production is going to drop quite a bit. He will probably never win another MVP again. He is going to now need I would think about 4-6 rings to get into top 10(each ring he wins in Miami = .3 compared to anywhere else).

[ginobli2311]

LeBron's stats does not give him an edge at all.

Look up Dominique Wilkins' stats, and compare with LeBron's. Very similar. LBJ just gets a few more assists a game. . .that's the only real difference between the two. LeBron's stats are also clearly going to drop and stay down for as long as he plays on the Heat, unless Wade goes down with injuries for long periods of time. That certainly will hurt his career stats while he tries to make ring grabs.

LeBron needs at LEAST 3 rings to even get a whiff of top 10. You guys undervalue too many players and assume he deserves a top spot because you haven't seen older players play. LeBron has had an inferior career to dozens of players who are not top 10. Right now, the only thing LeBron has gotten that's worth anything are the MVP awards the last 2 years for basically being the best fantasy basketball player.


LeBron's 15-20 with one ring. 10-15 with 2. 9-10 with 3. (worse than Duncan imo). with 4, maybe 5-8 area. He'll never get above MJ even if he wins more than 6 due to the path he's taking, and that he's less dominant with lesser stats anyway. I don't think he gets above Russel either. Possibly above Kobe due to better stats, but he would need to at least match Kobe's ring totals, which I don't see happening. And at least Kobe won titles without Shaq. Is LeBron going to win any without Wade/Bosh? No.

lol at comparing nique to lebron.

lebron has the 2nd highest PER ever and much better numbers. not even close dude. back to back mvp. led the worst team ever to make the finals. lebron blows nique out of the water in almost every stat and advanced stat. mvp awards shares? lebron is already 12th all time.....nique is 35th.

the fact remains that lebron will easily go down in the top 15 all time even without a ring if he maintains his current efficiency levels. Lebron is now by far the most under-rated player historically currently playing. Its laughable at this point.

If Lebron wins just one ring he passes up karl malone and reaches oscar/moses malone status. two rings and finals mvp puts him right there in the top ten range all time. throw in a couple more regular season mvps and it starts to get interesting.

Do you people not understand how good lebron has bee over the last 5 years? the dude came out of high school and his numbers are already sick. and no...his numbers will not get a ton worse. he will score around 25 to 27 a game over the next 6 years and his rebounding will go up. his assists will stay the same. his fg% will go up and he will focus more energy on defense. lebron could actually become an overall better player in this situation.

[The Iron Fist]

lol at comparing nique to lebron.

lebron has the 2nd highest PER ever and much better numbers. not even close dude. back to back mvp. led the worst team ever to make the finals. lebron blows nique out of the water in almost every stat and advanced stat. mvp awards shares? lebron is already 12th all time.....nique is 35th.

the fact remains that lebron will easily go down in the top 15 all time even without a ring if he maintains his current efficiency levels. Lebron is now by far the most under-rated player historically currently playing. Its laughable at this point.

If Lebron wins just one ring he passes up karl malone and reaches oscar/moses malone status. two rings and finals mvp puts him right there in the top ten range all time. throw in a couple more regular season mvps and it starts to get interesting.

Do you people not understand how good lebron has bee over the last 5 years? the dude came out of high school and his numbers are already sick. and no...his numbers will not get a ton worse. he will score around 25 to 27 a game over the next 6 years and his rebounding will go up. his assists will stay the same. his fg% will go up and he will focus more energy on defense. lebron could actually become an overall better player in this situation.


Kobe>>>>>Lebron forever, and its always been that way.

[The_Yearning]

To be perfectly honest, had Lebron stayed in Cleveland and never won a ring, but still continue to put up enormous stats, there is a chance he would crack the top 10. That is how dominant his production has been. The reason for him never winning would have been attributed to never having good enough teammates, but his production would speak for itself. Now his production is going to drop quite a bit. He will probably never win another MVP again. He is going to now need I would think about 4-6 rings to get into top 10(each ring he wins in Miami = .3 compared to anywhere else).

He would also need to win finals MVP for his rings to to have any type of honorable credibility since he has to prove he is the best player on that Heat team when it matters most...he has to take the big shots...but probably won't happen because D-Wade has that killer instinct and it's his team. WADE COUNTY baby.

[crisoner]

Apparently the Cleveland owner put a curse on LeBron so he will never win a ring...what YALL smoking!

[Sarcastic]

He would also need to win finals MVP for his rings to to have any type of honorable credibility since he has to prove he is the best player on that Heat team when it matters most...he has to take the big shots...but probably won't happen because D-Wade has that killer instinct and it's his team. WADE COUNTY baby.

It will be interesting to see what happens if Lebron takes a last shot and misses, and the reaction from his team, media, and fans.

[Yung D-Will]

what the **** are you smoking?

What?

It was a type relax.