David Robinson vs Patrick Ewing

[SmoothRED]

Who was greater and who was better? ShaqAttack is against Robinson...again...what a surprise. :rolleyes: That being said, I took Robinson. He was better at Ewing at everything. Better defender, better passer, more skilled, better shooter, better at everything really and he was more successful.

I'll let you guys finish it up.

[magnax1]

Lol..... is your only purpose on here to piss off shaqattack?
Well, I'd rather have David. The only thing He wasn't better at was post play, but Ewing ended up settling for Jumpers more often then not in the second half of his career.

[SmoothRED]

Lol..... is your only purpose on here to piss off shaqattack?
Well, I'd rather have David. The only thing He wasn't better at was post play, but Ewing ended up settling for Jumpers more often then not in the second half of his career.
He's so stubborn, so I'll let him be stubborn and then he'll realize that probably 30% of the people here and I'm being nice will vouch with him and pick Ewing. It's hard to go up against David, he was in MVP contention every single ****ing year. Ewing wasn't.

[magnax1]

He's so stubborn, so I'll let him be stubborn and then he'll realize that probably 30% of the people here and I'm being nice will vouch with him and pick Ewing. It's hard to go up against David, he was in MVP contention every single ****ing year. Ewing wasn't.
That was one confusing sentence, but Robinson was definitely better.

[SmoothRED]

PlayoffsGlossary ▪
Rk Player From To G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1 Patrick Ewing* 1988 1992 38 1480 339 704 1 4 191 244 95 409 94 36 87 87 154 870 .482 .250 .783 38.9 22.9 10.8 2.5
2 David Robinson* 1990 1996 53 2084 445 911 1 8 382 525 183 623 156 67 165 153 200 1273 .488 .125 .728 39.3 24.0 11.8 2.9

Playoffs AdvancedGlossary ▪
Rk Player From To G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS
1 Patrick Ewing* 1988 1992 38 1480 20.5 .536 .482 7.5 26.0 16.5 11.7 1.3 4.0 9.7 27.0 111 107 2.0 2.2 4.2
2 David Robinson* 1990 1996 53 2084 24.0 .557 .489 10.2 23.6 17.1 13.3 1.7 5.5 11.8 27.6 113 101 4.2 4.0 8.2

Numbers for the first 7 seasons for both players in the playoffs. Thanks to my man on another site.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Pasted from another thread.

Look at Ewing's big playoff performances.

In 1990, he led his team from down 0-2 to the more experienced, more talented Celtics with 3 straight victories. That included 33 points and 19 rebounds in game 3, 44 points, 13 rebounds, 7 steals and 5 assists in game 4 and 31 points, 8 rebounds and 10 assists in game 5 to close out the series in Boston. Down 0-2 vs the defending champion Pistons in round 2, he had 45 points and 13 rebounds.

In 1992, he had a great series vs Detroit which included 31/19/3/3 in a deciding game 5. He had 34/16/5/6 vs the Bulls in game 1 as well. And facing elimination vs the much more talented, defending champion Bulls, Ewing with a bad ankle sprain scored 27 points to extend the series to a 7th game.

In 1993 he was very good throughout the playoffs averaging 25.5 ppg and 11 rpg on 51% shooting, but he fell to a more talented Bulls team in 6 games in the ECF. In 1994, he had 36/14/3/5 to closeout the Hornets, had a 24/22/7/5 game to closeout the series in game 7 and he had a monster 25/12/8 game to give the Knicks a 3-2 lead in the finals.

In the deciding game 5, a badly injured 36 year old Ewing also outplayed a prime Alono Mourning who had won DPOY and finished 2nd in MVP voting. He outscored and outrebounded Mourning while shooting a higher %, leading the Knicks in points and rbeounds and helping them become the second 8 seed to defeat a 1 seed in NBA history.

Now, compare him to Robinson who was 2-10 in elimination games in his career. To put that in perspective, Ewing won more elimination games than that in one series vs a more talented team in 1990.

In fact, Robinson also lost 6 playoff series with homecourt advantage.

Ewing, had the statistical dominance as well(29/11/4/2 on 55% shooting in 1990), but he also had more heart, toughness and leadership. Robinson, on the otherhand, had his leadership questioned in the 1996 playoffs by Avery Johnson and later by Dennis Rodman. Ewing was every bit as good of a defensive anchor IMO, comparable as a shot blocker and rbeounder at his peak and as good as a scorer at his peak. Plus, Ewing was the better low post player.

Robinson is also the same guy who padded his stats on the last day of the season for the scoring title, even with playoff position secure, and he went on to get destroyed by the lower seeded Utah Jazz in the playoffs in 4 games. He averaged just 20/10 on 41% shooting.

Robinson's stats dropped from 21.1 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.0 bpg, 2.5 apg and 1.4 spg on 51.8% shooting(73.6 FT%) in his regular season career to 18.1 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 2.3 apg and 1.2 spg on 47.9% shooting(70.8 FT%).

Ewing was a flawed player, no question about it. But it's no coincidence that he got farther in the playoffs as the leader of his team and won more playoff series than Robinson did.

[SmoothRED]

Better at everything? Ewing was a better defender and a better anchor. A better franchise player as well.

Ewing any day.
Yeah, let's count the DPOY awards. Oh well....Robinson has One and Ewing has Zero. Look, I'm not saying Ewing sucked, he's a HOF legend, but Robinson was just better.

[robertshaw_1]

Give me Ewing.

[Juges8932]

I'll take Robinson.

[SmoothRED]

Camby is a better defender than Ewing too... you're right. DPOY is the pinnacle of the defensive player argument. :rolleyes:

Robinson wishes he had Ewing's defensive skills.
Robinson won a DPOY during his time when Ewing was playing as well. Who did Camby win DPOY over? And it's quite clear he got it because of his BPG stat. Robinson won it with Olajuwon, Jordan, Pippen, Glove, Ewing, etc. tons of great defenders.

Robinson also was one of the few players to ever average 2 SPG and 2 BPG in a season.

[ILLsmak]

I'd take DRob as my PF, Ewing as my C.

-Smak

[1987_Lakers]

SmoothRED = Rocketsgreatness?:confusedshrug:

[EroticVanilla]

SmoothRED = Rocketsgreatness?:confusedshrug:
Thats what I was thinking, it would explain why he hates ShaqAttack, who's a pretty big Dwight fan.

[ScolaFan]

David - 2 rings
Patrick - 0, zero, nada, nothing

David finished the finals
Patrick watched from the bench.

David - great human being
Patrick - nice guy

Rings mean everything.

My pick - David hands down :applause:

[Qdouble]

Statistically in head to head matchups from 92-96 (their "prime" years), Robinson spanked Ewing. But then again, statistically from 92-96, Robinson also seemed to play Shaq the best, but I would choose Hakeem or Ewing over D-Rob to play Shaq in any of those years.

[Qdouble]

Why are people so blinded by stats and rings? Empty accomplishments that don't show everything.

With all due respect, people don't get blinded by stats and rings. They get blinded by those ESPN highlights. How could you compare two players if you couldn't use stats and rings?

To be fair, I don't think D-Rob's rings count as much in this argument against Ewing. Those are Duncan's. But Ewing did lead his time to the Finals as the go-to guy, so it pretty much evens out the argument for me.

In head-to-head matchups in their prime, Robinson was the better player. But that said, I'd still choose Ewing, because at least I know I'd be getting a guy who gives it all as the ship sinks rather than a guy who had a questionable heart to the game.

[Kingsfans818]

Ill take the Admiral

[ShaqAttack3234]

Statistically in head to head matchups from 92-96 (their "prime" years), Robinson spanked Ewing. But then again, statistically from 92-96, Robinson also seemed to play Shaq the best, but I would choose Hakeem or Ewing over D-Rob to play Shaq in any of those years.

Ewing's prime was not from 92-96, his real prime was in the late 80's/early 90's before his knees and a lot of his athleticism and mobility went. Ewing when he was more mobile and athletic was a much better matchup for a freakishly quick and athletic center like Robinson.

Head to head from the 1989-1990 season through the 1992-1993 season. Robinson had some of his strongest years in this stretch as well. The teams split the 8 games.

Ewing- 25.4 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 2.5 apg, 3.5 bpg, 1.5 spg, 47.1 FG% 3.8 TO
Robinson- 21.6 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 3.3 apg, 3.6 bpg, 1.8 spg, 51.3 FG%, 3.8 TO

[theguru]

I think it's easily David Robinson.

[Qdouble]

Ewing's prime was not from 92-96, his real prime was in the late 80's/early 90's before his knees and a lot of his athleticism and mobility went. Ewing when he was more mobile and athletic was a much better matchup for a freakishly quick and athletic center like Robinson.

Head to head from the 1989-1990 season through the 1992-1993 season. Robinson had some of his strongest years in this stretch as well. The teams split the 8 games.

Ewing- 25.4 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 2.5 apg, 3.5 bpg, 1.5 spg, 47.1 FG% 3.8 TO
Robinson- 21.6 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 3.3 apg, 3.6 bpg, 1.8 spg, 51.3 FG%, 3.8 TO

He lead his team into the Finals in 94 and was still a Finals contending team in 95 and 96. You could possibly argue out the 96 season, because his numbers were visibly declining. And D-Rob hit his stride in 94 and 95.

Put those seasons in there and it becomes a whole different story.

[HylianNightmare]

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks/docs/images/6ae07llk.jpg

[Shep]

what a joke of a thread, robinson is so far ahead of ewing its like comparing ewing to shawn marion

[Lebron23]

Patrick Ewing

[redhonda76]

Patrick Ewing. How many thread do we need to argue about Ewing Vs Robinson.

[Amare4lyfe]

I'll take Ewing anyday, a leader, better playoff performer and heart which David lacks.

[Jailblazers7]

I feel like these comparison threads should be saved until the off-season. They pop up every year and are even more annoying when there is still basketball being played.

[Bigsmoke]

David Robinson was better. Ewing was just playing in NY to add on to his fan base. David was better than Ewing almost everything. Its a fact that Robinson lead the league in rebounds, blocks, and points before. Rob is also one of the top centers in steal along side Hakeem and Ben Wallace. I will also add that Rob won defensive player of the year and of course the MVP

Ewing has.....

[SmoothRED]

David Robinson was better. Ewing was just playing in NY to add on to his fan base. David was better than Ewing almost everything. Its a fact that Robinson lead the league in rebounds, blocks, and points before. Ewing is also one of the top centers in steal along side Hakeem and Ben Wallace. I will also add that Rob won defensive player of the year and of course the MVP

Ewing has.....
Indeed. Robinson was also the higher volume, more efficient scorer and was on another level as far as passing went.

But I guess if you want a guy that grew into a 1st option rather than a guy who led one of the greatest season turnarounds in NBA history. I guess that's what you can have. Enjoy losing.

[Myth]

I say Robinson. I thought his skill/athletism were superior, plus if you look at career achievements: 2 vs 0 championships (though David was obviously just a side kick then), 1 vs 0 MVPs, and 1 vs 0 DPOY.

[SCdac]

I genuinely hate basing arguments on stats, but it's not like Ewing played like a god in his lone 1994 Finals appearance:

game 1: 23 points (10/26), 0-2 three pointers, 9 rbd, 2 blk, 5 fouls
game 2: 16 points (7/19), 13 rbd, 6 blk, 4 fouls, 6 turnovers
game 3: 18 points (9/29), 0-2 three pointers, 13 rbd, 7 blk
game 4: 16 points (8/28), 15 rbd, 1 blk, 6 fouls
game 5: 25 points (11/21), 12 rbd, 8 blk, 3 fouls
game 6: 17 points (6/20), 15 rbd, 4 blk, 4 fouls
game 7: 17 points (7/17), 10 rbd, 2 blk, 3 fouls, 5 turnovers

I understand he rebounded and blocked shots well, but how can you spin that into a decent series for him as a leader? He averaged 24.5 PPG on 49.6 FG% in the regular season. He put up at least one 30 point game in every series leading up to the finals. He didn't even lead his team in scoring in two of the three wins against Houston. Props for getting to the Finals, but he nor Robinson could manage to surpass Hakeem's Rockets.

[dutchguy]

but it's not like Ewing played like a god in his lone 1994 Finals appearance:

game 1: 23 points (10/26), 0-2 three pointers, 9 rbd, 2 blk, 5 fouls
game 2: 16 points (7/19), 13 rbd, 6 blk, 4 fouls, 6 turnovers
game 3: 18 points (9/29), 0-2 three pointers, 13 rbd, 7 blk
game 4: 16 points (8/28), 15 rbd, 1 blk, 6 fouls
game 5: 25 points (11/21), 12 rbd, 8 blk, 3 fouls
game 6: 17 points (6/20), 15 rbd, 4 blk, 4 fouls
game 7: 17 points (7/17), 10 rbd, 2 blk, 3 fouls, 5 turnovers
.

But all those games barely got up in the 80 points, so that's a big difference. Oh, and he was playing hakeem, who everybody in this theread thinks is better than robinson

4 me Ewing. More dominating where Robinson had great stats but not when it mattered (and also not vs. Ewing as I recall)

[wang4three]

David Robinson

[SCdac]

But all those games barely got up in the 80 points, so that's a big difference. Oh, and he was playing hakeem, who everybody in this theread thinks is better than robinson

The Knicks hit the 90 point mark a few times, not too far from the season 98.5 PPG average, but I see your point. Sill, I can understand his numbers dropping, but his shooting was far from decent. 16-18 points on 28-29 shots?? That's weak. The low scoring series didn't stop Hakeem from having consecutive 25-32 point games, on just as many shots, probably less. If we're talking about players falling short of their regular season stats, why should this series, on the biggest stage, be neglected? It shouldn't IMO.... I'm not denying Hakeem was a better player than both Robinson and Ewing, not at all.

[dutchguy]

Sill, I can understand his numbers dropping, but his shooting was far from decent. 16-18 points on 28-29 shots?? That's weak.
To a point yes, but your numbers drop when you have this kind of outrageous defense. Including your %. So it's not pretty, but he didn't really drop the ball here I think


.... I'm not denying Hakeem was a better player than both Robinson and Ewing, not at all.
OK, so than it's obvious that Ewing was struggling against a better player. Robinson was never in the finals to begin with (at least not without Timmy)

Not saying it's not close, but my vote goes to Pat. I'm ready to change my opinion when someone can show me a great play-off game where Robinson dominated. I haven't seen him that much when he was in his prime

[Bigsmoke]

OK, so than it's obvious that Ewing was struggling against a better player. Robinson was never in the finals to begin with (at least not without Timmy)



Ewing never faced the Jazz in the first round though. Put Robs Spurs in the east and they'll be in the finals without any game 7s against anybody.

[dutchguy]

Ewing never faced the Jazz in the first round though. Put Robs Spurs in the east and they'll be in the finals without any game 7s against anybody.

The jazz never made it to the finals from 90-95, right?
And I'd like to see Rob against reggie's pacers

btw Were Malone & Robinson head to head in those series?

[SCdac]

OK, so than it's obvious that Ewing was struggling against a better player. Robinson was never in the finals to begin with (at least not without Timmy)

Not saying it's not close, but my vote goes to Pat. I'm ready to change my opinion when someone can show me a great play-off game where Robinson dominated. I haven't seen him that much when he was in his prime

Yeah, but a big part of the arguments against David tend to revolve around how he was destroyed by Hakeem, but lots of teams couldn't beat the Rockets. What if Ewing had to face the Rockets in the second or third round? Does he even make the Finals?... And when Robinson failed in the playoffs, it's depicted as if he was the ONLY one on those rosters who was failing individually, when that wasn't the case. In many of the playoff runs (not the regular season), David's casts flopped too and were most of the time just role players anyways. Like say, in 1994, Robinson puts up 27/12/4 and 2 blocks in the final game of the first round, but only one other player gets in double figures on his team (33 year old Dale Ellis), Del Negro, Daniels, Cummings, Anderson all finished with below 10 points and below .500 FG%. That's just one year, his cast was never all that great IMO, not to mention the ever-revolving coaches.

[dutchguy]

Like say, in 1994, Robinson puts up 27/12/4 and 2 blocks in the final game of the first round.

OK, but Ewing against Boston in 90? 89? That's a little more than 27 points. If u can show me a Robinson game (or better yet series) I'll officially change my pov :D
I'm not saying there's no game/series like that. It's just I can't think of anything. maybe it's just me

[TimeConfidence]

The one who scored 70+.

[ShaqAttack3234]

The one who scored 70+.

You already gave your opinion. Everyone knows that you and the OP are both RocketGreatness.

[SmoothRED]

You already gave your opinion. Everyone knows that you and the OP are both RocketGreatness.
Or everybody knows David Robinson is better.

[che guevara]

You already gave your opinion. Everyone knows that you and the OP are both RocketGreatness.
How many accounts is this now? 30? I hope he goes to a psychologist to find out what kind of disorder he has and tells ISH, because I'm interested as to what it could be.

[SmoothRED]

PlayoffsGlossary ▪
Rk Player From To G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST
1 Patrick Ewing* 1988 1992 38 1480 339 704 1 4 191 244 95 409 94 36 87 87 154 870 .482 .250 .783 38.9 22.9 10.8 2.5
2 David Robinson* 1990 1996 53 2084 445 911 1 8 382 525 183 623 156 67 165 153 200 1273 .488 .125 .728 39.3 24.0 11.8 2.9

Playoffs AdvancedGlossary ▪
Rk Player From To G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS
1 Patrick Ewing* 1988 1992 38 1480 20.5 .536 .482 7.5 26.0 16.5 11.7 1.3 4.0 9.7 27.0 111 107 2.0 2.2 4.2
2 David Robinson* 1990 1996 53 2084 24.0 .557 .489 10.2 23.6 17.1 13.3 1.7 5.5 11.8 27.6 113 101 4.2 4.0 8.2

Numbers for the first 7 seasons for both players in the playoffs. Thanks to my man on another site.
Robinson's first 7 playoff seasons > Ewing's

[ShaqAttack3234]

RocketGreatness exposed again.


It's a toss up for me for who'd I rather have, but Robinson is the better player if you ask me. Originally I thought Ewing a while ago, but I'm going with Robinson now.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148331&page=3

He thought it was so close that at one point he had Ewing ahead of Robinson and as recent as October he was calling it a toss up as far as who he'd rather have. :oldlol: Yet all of a sudden he acts like my opinion that Ewing was better is crazy.

[SmoothRED]

RocketGreatness exposed again.



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148331&page=3

He thought it was so close that at one point he had Ewing ahead of Robinson and as recent as October he was calling it a toss up as far as who he'd rather have. :oldlol: Yet all of a sudden he acts like my opinion that Ewing was better is crazy.
For the record, I never thought Ewing was better. You keep listing me as somebody else but the truth is, I ain't. The comparison is close, it's just that Robinson wins.

[ShaqAttack3234]

For the record, I never thought Ewing was better. You keep listing me as somebody else but the truth is, I ain't. The comparison is close, it's just that Robinson wins.

If it's close in your opinion then why do you make a big deal of me thinking Ewing is better? As you can see, a lot of posters agree with me.

And everyone knows you're RocketGreatness/RedZiggyZag/TMacKobeYao/TimeConfidence/itruwarrior/iLoveNBA/FinalCountdown ect.

[SmoothRED]

If it's close in your opinion then why do you make a big deal of me thinking Ewing is better? As you can see, a lot of posters agree with me.

And everyone knows you're RocketGreatness/RedZiggyZag/TMacKobeYao/TimeConfidence/itruwarrior/iLoveNBA/FinalCountdown ect.
What big deal? I didn't go ape shit like you do in teh other thread. :oldlol:

[Fatal9]

Heading into a playoff series, I would take '89-'94 Ewing in a heartbeat over Robinson.

[D.J.]

Admiral for 82 regular season games, Ewing for 4 rounds of playoff games. Ewing was by far the more clutch of the two and was the better defender. Admiral was far more athletic, could run the floor better than any big man, and had an excellent mid-range jump shot. But Admiral didn't come through when his team needed him, Ewing did.

[chitownsfinest]

Heading into a playoff series, I would take '89-'94 Ewing in a heartbeat over Robinson.
:pimp:

[1987_Lakers]

Rocketsgreatness is so pathetic/insecure. He makes the same thread in another site and look what he says in the third reply.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=998560
"wasn't ewing a better playoff performer than admiral?"


WorthyBlitz42 = Rocketsgreatness

[SmoothRED]

a smart poster from another site responds to your claim.

The series against the Celtics was pretty impressive, especially given how the Big Three played. The defense the Knicks played wasn't especially impressive early on, given how badly Lewis, McHale and Parish mangled the Knicks (57%+ FG) on the series, but they did force a crap-ton of turnovers and scored a lot on said turnovers. The big issue was that the Knicks could run, and the Celtics couldn't, they were flat-out too old to keep up.

The series against the Pistons wasn't all that different. They were old (4 starters 30-32, not counting 34 year-old Laimbeer, who started 46 games) and Rodman was sacrificing D for rebounding volume at that point. They didn't have the athleticism to match the Knicks and they couldn't bully the Knicks the way they did the Bulls before Pippen matured... certainly not while Riley was coaching them.

It also bears mention that Isiah Thomas SUCKED in that series. So did Aguirre and Laimbeer. They didn't have the ability to score on the Knicks, and while Ewing anchored that defense very well, some of it was that those Pistons just didn't have the stuff to hang with younger guys. Just the same as was true of the Celtics earlier.

They did hang tough with the Bulls, though, and that was impressive, though you'll notice Ewing faded as that series went along. Started out like gang-busters, 34/16/5 and 6 blocks, great shooting. 16/16/3 on good shooting the next game, didn't shoot a lot in a game they lost. 27/11/4, good shooting, Knicks lose. 15/11/2, crap shooting, Knicks win. 14/7/1, crap shooting, Bulls win. 27/8/1, awesome shooting (really, most of his "good" shooting nights are 54% FG or better), Knicks win.

Elimination game? 22/9/1, mediocre shooting (42.1% FG), Bulls win.

Ewing started super-hot, SUCKED royally in the middle of the series, and then played an alright Game 7. And that was in a matchup largely with like Bill Cartwright, Stacey King and Will Perdue. There was the ankle sprain to consider, but that doesn't account for everything, though certainly it gives him a small pass (especially because he continued to play very good D).

And yeah, it's true that he played pretty well in the 93 playoffs, dumped on the Hornets the year after and had some other notable performances.

The quoted piece actually understands the happenings in 99; Ewing was 37, not 35, in 99, when Mourning won his first DPOY. It does say that he "outplayed" Mourning, which isn't entirely accurate. Well, that's not true; he certainly out-REBOUNDED Mourning, who looked like crap on the glass that game with 5 boards, and he shot poorly, but he also scored 21 points and was 9/10 at the line in so doing. Also, at 14 FGAs (and him going 6/14), one made FGA is the difference between about 43% FG and 50%, so it's a little noisy. It also bears mention that PJ Brown had 12 rebounds.

Ewing posted 22/11 with 0 assists, 1 steal, no blocks, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 40 minutes. He shot a little over 47%, which is pretty good, especially for the playoffs and for a non-Shaq/Dream big taking 19 shots.

It was a good game, but the post makes it sound like some epic performance. It was timely, given the way he'd played before, so there's that. It was also the lockout season, which for me is a huge cluster****. The season was too short for it to really be considered anything of value and the playoffs didn't come with the usual grind, so players were fresher than they'd otherwise be, etc. At 37, I don't think Ewing would have performed that way after 70+ games, and so it makes it an asterisk series for me. That whole year, really, right up to the Spurs' title and everything in between that and day one. Still, it was a timely performance from a guy who was well-past his prime.

The main reaction against D-Rob is that his teammates questioned his leadership abilities. In particular, Avery Johnson and brain-dead Dennis Rodman. I don't put much stock in that, it was 100% clear that Robinson was like Duncan, not a guy who ever really got in your face about stuff, and certainly not like Garnett, prancing around hollering and whatever. It just wasn't who he was, and that's fine.

Then he uses the stupid argument of comparing Robinson's regular-season stats and playoff stats... including the years where he was playing as a roleplayer? WTF? This discussion should be explicitly pre-1997, we should be talking primes, when Robinson was actually leading his team.

So let's have a look at Robinson's career before the 96-97 season and the playoff matchups, rosters, and all that good junk. The stuff that goes into it. Then we'll compare that to Ewing's roster and roleplayer performances, etc. I'll do both in follow-up posts, because they'll take a while.

Right now, I'm going mostly based off of what I remember seeing, so don't take this post to have any tone indicating an answer; your question, and that post, is intriguing enough to make me reconsider my position. As I said, I don't count either player as much separated from the other, though it's true Robinson was a lot better in the regular season. So we'll see.


In 1990, Robinson won in the first round with a fairly epic performance and then lost in 7 to the eventual-finalists the Blazers, who would lose to the Pistons. It bears some mention that at this point in Robinson's career, he was playing alongside Terry Cummings. That year, Cummings was still quite good, both in the regular season and in the playoffs. He'd have two more good (but lesser) years and then fall off the face of the earth as a player.

The next year, they got smoked in the first round by the Warriors. D-Rob shot just under 69% from the field while posting 25.8 ppg, 13.5 rpg and 2 apg, with 1.5 spg and 3.75 bpg. There really isn't much he could have done in that series that he didn't do. In the elimination game, he put in 18/14/4, with 2 steals, 2 blocks and almost 64% shooting. 6 turnovers, but that game was lost mainly because Willie Anderson chucked like Hell and, more importantly, Tim Hardaway went off like a bomb to close them out. Not much Robinson could do about that. Not much Ewing, at any stage of his career, would have done about that.

The year after, they got trounced by the Suns... but Robinson wasn't playing, so that series doesn't count. That was the year he tore a ligament in his hand and missed the last like 14 games of the season and the playoffs. So that doesn't count.

Beat the Blazers the year after, then lost to the Suns again, this time in 6 versus in 3 straight. He played really well in the first two games (32/10/4, 3 steals, 7 blocks; 27/10/3/2/2) and then played down in Game 3. 13/8/6 (terrible shooting) in 28 minutes, foul trouble limiting him. 36/16, Spurs tie the series the game after, though. Nice bounce-back game. Last victory in the series, but it was a critical win. 24/8/3 on nearly 63% FG the game after, but Barkley and KJ pretty much said "we're winning this one" and two stars versus Robinson and roleplayers was too much to beat. In the elimination game (which they lost by 2), 22/14/5. Didn't shoot very well, but had 7 offensive boards, 4 blocks and 2 steals. Barkley won that game for them, though, 28/21/4/4/2 from him. Not really Robinson's fault that the 6'7 forward beat them, though certainly the Admiral could have played better. Looks a lot like games Ewing had regularly when he was being beaten by better teams. The Suns were the WC Finalists and they were an exceedingly dangerous scoring squad. Barkley was the MVP and in the middle of his last truly epic season. I don't really hold that one against Robinson or the Spurs, the Suns were just better, and the post we're discussing gave Ewing a pass for losing to better teams.

OK, 3 more seasons.

94? They got smoked by the Jazz. Robinson posted 20/10/3.5 in the series, but shot only 41% FG, with a TS of only 47%. Coming off of 29.8 ppg in the regular season (a scoring title, at that), it was a HUGE letdown. There isn't really a defense here, the Jazz throttled him at the peak of his career.

In 95, as I said before, he generally played pretty well against the Rockets but he couldn't handle Olajuwon. He performed a lot better than had Ewing the previous year, though, so there isn't a word anyone can speak on that topic. Both Ewing and Robinson were incapable of doing anything about Olajuwon's dominance at that point.

In 96, they lost to the Jazz again, with Robinson going from 25 ppg in the regular season to about 19 against Utah. They played him really well.

So that's Robinson in the playoffs, without any major remarks about his supporting cast. Like Ewing, he didn't really enjoy a good second man at any point in his career and at the peak of it, he definitely had a chemistry-buster (Rodman) and a couple of guys who were 3rd options or backups forced into more prominent roles (Elliott, Del Negro and Johnson), which sucked. He didn't get the same kind of timely performances and random big games that Hakeem's role players provided (seriously, Carl Herrera? WTF?).

What I guess this debate ultimately comes down to is the relative value of Robinson's post '92 roster versus Ewing's, and how heavily you weigh the 94 and 96 failures against the Jazz as far as Robinson's downside in the playoffs.


Ewing was drafted in 85. The Knicks missed the playoffs in his first two seasons in large part due to the fact that Ewing missed 32 and 19 games. Then they got canned by the 88 Celtics, for which there is no shame, because those guys were still awesome. In 89, they beat the Sixers (don't get excited, they were the 46-win Sixers with a ridiculously good Barkley and no one else of consequence) and lost 4-2 to the Bulls. Ewing was noticeably worse in the playoffs than in the regular season, offensively. His TS dropped about 7% and his overall PPG dropped about 3 ppg, mostly after the Bulls series.

They beat the aged Celtics the year after and then lost to the Pistons. This was no surprise, and has already been discussed. The Celtics were OLD. In the half-court, they did pretty well against the Knicks but they couldn't handle the speed of the younger Knicks... and Parish wasn't really able to handle Ewing's power.

The year after, they got swept by the Bulls. After that, the series victory against the ancient Pistons, which was already discussed.

Banner year in 93, made it all the way to the ECFs before the Bulls beat them in 6. There was no way they'd beat the Bulls, but the Hornets and Pacers weren't exactly titans, nor especially well-suited to beat the Knicks. This roughly resembles the 95 season for the Spurs.

94, great year. Ran into Hakeem. Can't really complain too much, Robinson was balls against the Rockets too.

By 95, the Pacers were good. Ewing was in his 30s by this point, and not as good as he used to be. Don't know how fair it is to use playoff data from beyond 1993. Robinson stopped leading his team in the playoffs after the age of 30 (though he also started a year later and missed the playoffs in 92 because of his hand injury, and then obviously in 97 because of the back and foot troubles).

So yeah, I think I'll leave it there. Things get steadily worse for Ewing after 94, but he was old, so it makes sense.

Like Robinson, he tended to beat the teams he should have beaten. He also couldn't beat Hakeem. He also couldn't beat the Bulls (and Robinson couldn't beat the Jazz).

I think that ultimately works out as pretty even, IMO. I don't really see the difference; the Jazz were a deeper team with a better star, just like the Bulls.


Again, I didn't post this. 1987_Lakers posted about me talking about this on another site. That's where I got it from.

[SmoothRED]

ShaqAttack, tell me your take now.

[JustinJDW]

Both players were amazing in their prime and neither one of them is a bad choice. I personally prefer David Robinson, but I am am life long and die-hard Spurs fan, so I am a bit biased on that, hehe.

I will tell you this though, Robinson's supporting cast in his prime before Tim Duncan was borderline pathetic. Compared to the other supporting casts that other superstars had in that era, Robinson's cast is almost laughable when you get past Sean Elliot. Not to mention that he had so many different coaches and played on a small market team, compared to Ewing in New York.

But a case can be made either way, and like I said, neither is a bad choice. One thing I do want to say though, which may be a bit off topic, is that I think Hakeem is one of those players that get overrated a bit a few years down the road after retirement. Not by a lot, but it just bugs me a bit how people seem to be so quick to put him above the other past great Centers. Just a thought of mine.

Anyway, those are my two cents. Peace.

[chitownsfinest]

Celtics were like 4-1 against the Knicks in that 1990 regualr season and had been regularly dominating New York in years previous to that. Furthermore, NY ended the season losing like 15 of their last 21 due to Oakley's injury (only reason NY got back in the series was due to Ewing's dominance and Oak crashing the boards as well as shutting down Parrish) whereas Boston was like 16-4 in their last 20 games and were a experienced veteran team. NY was also going through other problems that season as Peter Vescey highlighted at the halftime of game 3 (http://www.youtube.com/user/tjhunt76#p/c/3F7DF477D083FB0B/5/heENSPB2XoE go to like 4:00). Boston was definitely not a team NY was simply supposed to beat at that time and I would call it a huge upset considering the circumstances at that point.