Greg Popovich: NBA Champs Aren't World Champs

[Lakas Fan Yo]

This is one of the most arrogant and ridiculous things in basketball, how the NBA refers to the North American champions as the "world champions", which is an outright lie and obviously not factually true.

Well looks like Popovich is calling bull shit out on the NBA over this:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1243094&srvc=next_article

By Steve Bulpett
Boston Herald

The Celtics have 17 banners hanging from the Garden ceiling declaring the club

[HylianNightmare]

no shit sherlock

[U got Served]

WHO CARES? The best basketball players in the world play in the NBA. NBA>>>>>Euroleague

[Kensta]

MLB should change theirs from The World Series to the North America Series.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

WHO CARES? The best basketball players in the world play in the NBA. NBA>>>>>Euroleague

Then why does the NBA have an inferiority complex over this? Claiming the North American champions are the "world champions" is a classic example of an inferiority complex.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

MLB should change theirs from The World Series to the North America Series.

Exactly. Although supposedly they are doing that in the future and calling the world series the series against the Japanese champs. But still that's only USA/Canada against Japan.

[Kurosawa0]

Considering the majority of the best players in the world play in the NBA, it doesn't bother me. No championship is more prestigious than an NBA one.

[dallaslonghorn]

Exactly. Although supposedly they are doing that in the future and calling the world series the series against the Japanese champs. But still that's only USA/Canada against Japan.

Do they even play baseball in Africa and Europe? Let's not get totally out of hand with this PC stuff.

I don't see the big deal w/being arrogant either as long as you can back it up.

[A Roc 23]

They should keep calling it being the World Champion. If the rest of the teams around the world want to somehow figure out the best non-NBA team and challenge the Lakers, 2008 Celtics, etc... then be my guest.

The Lakers would destroy the best non-NBA team. Get outta here!

[madmax]

Well, NBA are doing themselves no good by disregarding all the other teams in world and calling the champions of their league "world" champions...a bit of humbliness wouldn't hurt even the most biggest egos of americans, not to mention after suffering all those humiliating defeats to European teams in the last decade

[Se]

Exactly. Although supposedly they are doing that in the future and calling the world series the series against the Japanese champs. But still that's only USA/Canada against Japan.

Aren't the Koreans the world champs?

[HylianNightmare]

U.S. vs everyone else combined

Paul/Williams
Kobe/Roy/JJ
Lebron/Melo/Durant
Bosh/Amare
Dwight/Bynum

vs

Nash
Manu
????
Dirk/Gasol/Scola
Bogut/Gortat/Gasol

[U got Served]

It's not like those Euroleaguers would want to create a tournament where NBA teams and Euroleague teams compete to see who the real "world champion" is. Euroleague teams would get crushed. :oldlol:

[GOBB]

What makes the Spanish team World Champions?

[robertshaw_1]

ginobili
delfino
nocioni
scola
oberto

they say hi in 2004.....

[U got Served]

What makes the Spanish team World Champions?

They won the last fiba world championship tournament.

[fubu05]

What makes the Spanish team World Champions?

They won FIBA last year.

[DuMa]

i dont get how the olympics and FIBA Worlds are not one and the same? basically have the same rules and most of the time the same teams. actually one could argue the olympics attract the better teams from most countries rather than the FIBA Worlds. so the competition at the Olympics should be considered to be the best so it should be the best overall competition to determine a 'world champion'

[Hawker]

They won the last fiba world championship tournament.

lol...that's the biggest moral victory ever.

Who cares if we got our asses whooped in the Olympics, WE STILL WON THE FIBA TOURNAMENT NANANANANEEERS!!

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

ginobili
delfino
nocioni
scola
oberto

they say hi in 2004.....

They were a dag good team, not taking away. All of them were at one point major contributors in NBA teams. Howevver in 04' we sent our best 20 year old kids to play against grown men, while adding thugs like Stephon Marbury and a cancer in Allen Iverson.

LeBron was a talent, but he wasn't talented enough being so young to be able to domiante the world same with Melo. Now that they are grown men the world doesnt stand a chance.

see 08

[gotbacon23]

so damn nitpicky. who cares?

[EricForman]

lol...that's the biggest moral victory ever.

Who cares if we got our asses whooped in the Olympics, WE STILL WON THE FIBA TOURNAMENT NANANANANEEERS!!

Have some respect. First of all, Spain hardly "got their asses whupped" by Team USA at the Olympics. If anything, they made most of you look snobby for thinking Bron/Melo/Wade/Kobe/Dwight = OMGZZZ THEY WILL MURDER THE WORLD. Spain was right there the entire game, without their starting PG for most of the game.

Second, Team USA has gotten beat in international competition several times before that, so for you to brag after one 2008 victory is silly.

But, I'm not in the "NBA champs are not the best team" camp, I think the L is definitely the highest level of ball anywhere. And although calling NBA champ world champ technically is wrong, they ARE the best team in the best league in the world.

But still, this refusal to accept that Spain and Argentina beat the US fair and square in 02, 04 and 06 and then bragging just cause we won in 2008 is arrogant.

[robertshaw_1]

They were a dag good team, not taking away. All of them were at one point major contributors in NBA teams. Howevver in 04' we sent our best 20 year old kids to play against grown men, while adding thugs like Stephon Marbury and a cancer in Allen Iverson.

LeBron was a talent, but he wasn't talented enough being so young to be able to domiante the world same with Melo. Now that they are grown men the world doesnt stand a chance.

see 08

iverson, melo, lebron...ok....and what about prime stoudamire and duncan???

come on....

[U got Served]

iverson, melo, lebron...ok....and what about prime stoudamire and duncan???

come on....

Iverson is a ball hog who needs 4 other robots in his team so he can shine. And Prime Stoudemire??:confusedshrug:

[Hawker]

Have some respect. First of all, Spain hardly "got their asses whupped" by Team USA at the Olympics. If anything, they made most of you look stupid for thinking Bron/Melo/Wade/Kobe/Dwight = OMGZZZ THEY WILL MURDER THE WORLD. Spain was right there the entire game.

Second, Team USA has gotten beat in international competition several times before that, so for you to brag after one 2008 victory is silly.

But, I'm not in the "NBA champs are not the best team" camp, I think the L is definitely the highest level of ball anywhere. And although calling NBA champ world champ technically is wrong, they ARE the best team in the best league in the world.

But still, this refusal to accept that Spain and Argentina beat the US fair and square in 02, 04 and 06 and then bragging just cause we won in 2008 is arrogant.


It was a great game but if I recall...Spain got close once near the end of the game and never came close again. I don't think the game was ever tied and I don't think Spain ever lead. USA won by 11 pts.

And whoever wins the most recent competition can brag...USA is the best team in the world. Don't even compare those -2, 04 and 06 teams to the 08 team.

[robertshaw_1]

2004 Olympics.

allen iverson
carmelo anthony
lebron james
tim duncan
amare stoudemire

coach: larry brown/greg popovich

vs

manu ginobili
carlos delfino
andres nocioni
luis scola
fabricio oberto

coach: ruben magnano


all said.

[EricForman]

It was a great game but if I recall...Spain got close once near the end of the game and never came close again. I don't think the game was ever tied and I don't think Spain ever lead. USA won by 11 pts.

And whoever wins the most recent competition can brag...USA is the best team in the world. Don't even compare those -2, 04 and 06 teams to the 08 team.

Spain was within 4-12 point the entire second half. Team USA never could pull away and I think Spain got as close as 2 or 3 in the final minutes.

As for the bragging, I somehow doubt you would have sat silent if someone claimed Argentina whupped USA's ass before 2008.

[illmago]

It was a great game but if I recall...Spain got close once near the end of the game and never came close again. I don't think the game was ever tied and I don't think Spain ever lead. USA won by 11 pts.

And whoever wins the most recent competition can brag...USA is the best team in the world. Don't even compare those -2, 04 and 06 teams to the 08 team.

yeah, probably USA is the best team in the world, but the truth is:

Spain is the current World Champion
USA is the current Olympic Champion
LA is the current NBA Champion

Greg Popovich is right and whoever says he is not is the one who's wrong

cheers from Madrid :cheers:

[BlueandGold]

eh, I actually dont have problem with the NBA using the world champ title. I mean the NBA is definitely the premiere league of basketball, and the best players not in the NBA (euroleague, others) can barely make it as a starter in the league.

[Cermet]

[QUOTE=Lakas Fan Yo]This is one of the most arrogant and ridiculous things in basketball, how the NBA refers to the North American champions as the "world champions", which is an outright lie and obviously not factually true.

Well looks like Popovich is calling bull shit out on the NBA over this:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1243094&srvc=next_article

By Steve Bulpett
Boston Herald

The Celtics have 17 banners hanging from the Garden ceiling declaring the club

[Hawker]

yeah, probably USA is the best team in the world, but the truth is:

Spain is the current World Champion
USA is the current Olympic Champion
LA is the current NBA Champion

Greg Popovich is right and whoever says he is not is the one who's wrong

cheers from Madrid :cheers:

And USA beat Spain in soccer 2-0.
:cheers:

[Lakas Fan Yo]

It's not like those Euroleaguers would want to create a tournament where NBA teams and Euroleague teams compete to see who the real "world champion" is. Euroleague teams would get crushed. :oldlol:

Wow, you really are something. Just last season ULEB (the Euroleague body) requested the NBA participate in a world club championship along with the Euroleague. David Stern refused and said the NBA would not do that.

As result, ULEB also dropped out of the club championship. It's amazing how the "world champs" refused to even participate. If the NBA teams are so vastly superior to the ULEB ones then why did the NBA refuse to play the ULEB zone champ? In fact ULEB even offered to send the second division Eurocup champ to play the NBA and still the NBA refused.

If the NBA is so superior they would have no worry and would participate. It would only further promote all the NBA marketing about how it is "a million times better than the Euroleague" if they won by 50 points as all NBA fans claim they would.

Instead, they refused to even play the SECOND TIER European champs from the Eurocup.

[U got Served]

Wow, you really are something. Just last season ULEB (the Euroleague body) requested the NBA participate in a world club championship along with the Euroleague. David Stern refused and said the NBA would not do that.

As result, ULEB also dropped out of the club championship. It's amazing how the "world champs" refused to even participate. If the NBA teams are so vastly superior to the ULEB ones then why did the NBA refuse to play the ULEB zone champ? In fact ULEB even offered to send the second division Eurocup champ to play the NBA and still the NBA refused.

If the NBA is so superior they would have no worry and would participate. It would only further promote all the NBA marketing about how it is "a million times better than the Euroleague" if they won by 50 points as all NBA fans claim they would.

Instead, they refused to even play the SECOND TIER European champs from the Eurocup.


I really am something huh? Please provide your sources. Thanks.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

i dont get how the olympics and FIBA Worlds are not one and the same? basically have the same rules and most of the time the same teams. actually one could argue the olympics attract the better teams from most countries rather than the FIBA Worlds. so the competition at the Olympics should be considered to be the best so it should be the best overall competition to determine a 'world champion'

Nope. The Olympics is a relatively weak competition compared to the world championship. It's actually the third best tournament after the world championship and the EuroBasket. The reason the Olympics are made to be such a big deal is because the NBA used it as a marketing thing with the Dream Team.

For example a 12th placed EuroBasket team could make the quarterfinals of the Olympics rather easily.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

They were a dag good team, not taking away. All of them were at one point major contributors in NBA teams. Howevver in 04' we sent our best 20 year old kids to play against grown men, while adding thugs like Stephon Marbury and a cancer in Allen Iverson.

LeBron was a talent, but he wasn't talented enough being so young to be able to domiante the world same with Melo. Now that they are grown men the world doesnt stand a chance.

see 08

I like how you left out prime Tim Duncan being on that team.

[illmago]

And USA beat Spain in soccer 2-0.
:cheers:

true, so i'm glad you finally agree that NBA champ doesn't mean World Champ, there are tournaments for that

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Have some respect. First of all, Spain hardly "got their asses whupped" by Team USA at the Olympics. If anything, they made most of you look snobby for thinking Bron/Melo/Wade/Kobe/Dwight = OMGZZZ THEY WILL MURDER THE WORLD. Spain was right there the entire game, without their starting PG for most of the game.

Second, Team USA has gotten beat in international competition several times before that, so for you to brag after one 2008 victory is silly.

But, I'm not in the "NBA champs are not the best team" camp, I think the L is definitely the highest level of ball anywhere. And although calling NBA champ world champ technically is wrong, they ARE the best team in the best league in the world.

But still, this refusal to accept that Spain and Argentina beat the US fair and square in 02, 04 and 06 and then bragging just cause we won in 2008 is arrogant.


To illustrate this:

2002 - Spain, Serbia, Argentina beat USA NBA players

2004 - Italy, Puerto Rico, Lithuania, Argentina beat USA NBA players

2006 - Greece beat USA NBA players (Bosh, Howard, Melo, Paul, Boozer, LeBron, Joe Johnson, Jamison, Wade, Brand before the injuries).........


There were numerous countries that beat the US and did it numerous times. Also, the 2006 US team that lost to Greece was a team stacked full of NBA all stars. Americans try over and over swear it was a team full of "scrubs". Face reality, a team with 12 Euroleague players beat a team full of legit NBA all stars. It happened and Americans just look so damn arrogant for pretending it never happened. You can't make up the bull shit excuses that the 2006 US team was "NBA scrubs" like Americans always do to defend the losses in 2002 and 2004.

It wasn't even true in 2002 or 2004 either. Those rosters were full of good NBA players also. But the 2006 US team was pretty stacked and still lost. Also, it's unreal how Americans will swear that Euroleague players all suck, when 12 Euroleague players beat a stacked NBA team in 2006. Please, enough with the bull shit already.

[U got Served]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4129274&postcount=96

[burnsy87]

Do they even play baseball in Africa and Europe? Let's not get totally out of hand with this PC stuff.

I don't see the big deal w/being arrogant either as long as you can back it up.


Baseball is played everywhere, and most of the best players aren't in the states. They are in Cuba and Japan.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

It was a great game but if I recall...Spain got close once near the end of the game and never came close again. I don't think the game was ever tied and I don't think Spain ever lead. USA won by 11 pts.

And whoever wins the most recent competition can brag...USA is the best team in the world. Don't even compare those -2, 04 and 06 teams to the 08 team.

PG Chris Paul/Kirk Hinrich
SG Dwyane Wade/Joe Johnson
SF Carmelo Anthony/Shane Battier
PF LeBron James/Elton Brand/Antawn Jamison
C Dwight Howard/Chris Bosh/Brad Miller

Coach: Mike Krzyzewski

And that's prime Brad Miller and prime Elton Brand. In case you forgot Brad Miller averaged 15 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists for a playoff team that year. Elton Brand averaged 25/10 that year.

Hell even Kirk Hinrich was good back then before his injuries. He averaged 16 and 6 that year and he was probably the worst player on that team.

And the team they lost to?


PG Dimitris Diamantidis/Theo Papaloukas/Nikos Zisis
SG Vassilis Spanoulis/Nikos Hatzivrettas
SF Michalis Kakiouzis/Panos Vasilopoulos
PF Antonis Fotsis/Dimos Dikoudis
C Lazaros Papadopoulos/Sofoklis Schortsanitis/Kostas Tsartsaris

Coach: Panagiotis Giannakis

Not even one single NBA player on the entire roster. And to boot, Greece's leading scorer from their gold medal European championship team, Nikos Zisis didn't even play in the game because he was injured.

In other words, all this nonsense about how USA can never lose if they send a certain amount of top players, or how no team full of 12 Euroleague players could ever in a million years beat a team full of 12 NBA players is pure bull shit. You can make up all those excuses all you want about the 2004 loss to Argentina that US players were too young, that Iverson and Marbury were cancers (and they are still just EXCUSES).......


But how the hell do you explain what happened in 2006? And it wasn't like playing against an Argentina team that had a bunch of NBA players. It was playing against a Greek team that had 12 Euroleague players. Do Americans actually believe this crap that it's impossible for 12 Euroleague players to beat 12 NBA players? I mean seriously, American NBA fans are comical, even more arrogant than English football fans.

[guy]

I don't see the problem. NBA is the best league in the world clearly, and lets not forget that most of the best foreign players PLAY in the NBA such Dirk, Gasol, Yao, Manu, Parker, etc.

[Rake2204]

In all honesty, when I've heard the term "World Champions" used to describe NBA or MLB champions, I didn't treat it as a team stating they were the best in the world. Since I was a child I just interpreted it as meaning the champion of a given league. I think it was a little presumptuous (even for a youngster) to assume a team who only played other teams in its own country is thereby the world champion.

Despite my feelings of the term holding a non-literal definition at this point, I do agree with Popovich. I don't think there's any harm in transitioning from "World Champions" to "NBA Champions". I couldn't remember whether I referred to the Pistons as World or NBA champs but I clearly knew their title meant they were the champions of the NBA that year, not the world.

[NuggetsFan]

I don't see why not. Doesn't the majority of Europe's best players come over to the NBA anyways.

And why does Spain get to be called world champs? Last time I checked they didn't play Canada\America either. If you wanted to be technical there's no league that plays a team from every country besides the Olympics. I think anyways lol.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

I don't see why not. Doesn't the majority of Europe's best players come over to the NBA anyways.

And why does Spain get to be called world champs? Last time I checked they didn't play Canada\America either. If you wanted to be technical there's no league that plays a team from every country besides the Olympics. I think anyways lol.

Maybe because Spain won the World Basketball Championship? And yes the US was playing in that same World Basketball Championship and had Wade, LeBron, Paul, Bosh, Howard, Melo on the team. That is why Spain is called the world champs.

I guess anyone could just say "why is the US allowed to be called Olympic champs"? It's about as ignorant as some of the comments in this thread.

[A.M.G.]

The NBA is the best basketball players in the world though. Pops getting a bit snitty over a technicality.

Like, should we have the NBA champion play the Euroleague champion every year? Oh no, now the Phillipines Basketball league feels left out! Give me a kit-kat bar.

[Hawker]

true, so i'm glad you finally agree that NBA champ doesn't mean World Champ, there are tournaments for that

No there isn't.

There's no tournament where club teams from all over the world play each other.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The NBA is the best basketball players in the world though. Pops getting a bit snitty over a technicality.

Like, should we have the NBA champion play the Euroleague champion every year? Oh no, now the Phillipines Basketball league feels left out! Give me a kit-kat bar.

Why does the NBA insist on calling a US/Canada championship a world championship? The Champions League does not call its winner the world champion.

The north European hockey league does not call its champion the world champion. If the best soccer leagues in the world, like Champions League, Italy, Spain don't call there champs "world champs" then why does the NBA do it?

The argument that the NBA is the best league does not even make sense and is not even logical. You are not the world champs if you are just the champs of a national domestic league.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

No there isn't.

There's no tournament where club teams from all over the world play each other.

As I already pointed out, the Euroleague requested one last year. It would be overseen by FIBA and the NBA refused to agree to it. ULEB, which oversees the Euroleague then offered to send the champion from the second tier, second level European competition the Eurocup, to play the NBA champ.

That still was not good enough for the NBA who still refused. FIBA then offered a $5 million prize to the NBA and to the winning team to entice the NBA and still the NBA refused.

And the reason the NBA refused according to Stern was because ULEB and FIBA wanted the refs to be 1/3 FIBA officials and they wanted the rules to be a 50/50 mix of NBA/FIBA rules and they wanted the tournament played on a neutral court.

Stern said he will only allow the NBA to participate if it is 3/3 NBA refs, 100% NBA rules, and on an NBA court.

I mean yeah, the NBA sure sounds totally convinced that they will win no matter what.............they actually sound scared at even the thought of such a tournament. You know Stern is scared when he turns down money and all the potential marketing it would do for the NBA.

The endless ads about how the NBA champs beat the Euroleague champs and yet the NBA is doing everything they can to stop it from happening. I mean come on, they would not even play the Eurocup champ - the SECOND DIVISION European champ. That's just hilarious.

[robertshaw_1]

PG: Juan "Pepe" Sanchez
SG: Manu Ginobili
SF: Andres Nocioni
PF: Luis Scola
C: Fabricio Oberto

Bench: Schonochini, Delfino, Herman, Wolkowyski, etc....

ALL OF THEM SAY:

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[Skyscraper]

Why exactly are you mad here?

Bring up the issue with the NBA, David Stern, and whoever is in charge.

What purpose does it serve to call Americans arrogant?

The people did not exactly vote to call the NBA Championship the World Championship.


Moreover, most fans call it the NBA title or refer to the titlist team the NBA champs.

Don't think anyone on these forums ever refers to the Lakers as the World Champs


Moreover, the premise of your argument is that Americans consist only of dumb rednecks and African Americans who long forgot their Swahili.

America is a melting pot of all cultures and nationalities. Sure it may be smug to say America represents the world, when in fact America is still controlled by a shadow organization of oligarchs hidden by the government...

but it is indeed true that the best talent in the world comes to America.

While the term "world champs" should probably be stricken from the record, it does not take anything away from how the NBA does in fact represent the world and is going global.


Besides, if that 2003 FIBA USA team went intact, no injuries/marriages/requiring rest...

if Prime VC, TMac, Bibby, Kidd, RAY ALLEN (most importantly for his shooting) and company went along, perhaps with prime Shaq and KG (i know those 2 were not on the 2003 team), then the US would have destroyed the 2004 Olympics.

[Pharcyde]

Only Europeans care about shit like this. Then we'll say "Who cares? It's not that big of a deal" and they reply with the usual "Oh you're fat/arrogant American"

[Quizno]

no matter how many threads you make, euroleague still doesn't compare to the NBA

[Psileas]

The whole "world champions" term goes many years behind, in eras when the NBA was so far ahead that the rest of the world seemed irrelevant. Things changed, the rest of the world became stronger, the pros lost some games and international titles, but, since the NBA is still almost universally considered the strongest league, many, mostly Americans, maintain the "world champions" term as a comparative. Popovich was using the technical term. This is also correct. However, if we want to get really technical, the Euroleague champions should also not call themselves "European champions", since the European champion (in Popovich's terms) is Spain. Plus, the Euroleague is not a tournament between all the best European teams, it's a tournament between some of the teams with the best records in the domestic championships of the previous season.

[ZenMaster]

i dont get how the olympics and FIBA Worlds are not one and the same? basically have the same rules and most of the time the same teams. actually one could argue the olympics attract the better teams from most countries rather than the FIBA Worlds. so the competition at the Olympics should be considered to be the best so it should be the best overall competition to determine a 'world champion'


The NBA championship is not the World championship, no matter what Americans think, sorry but get over it.

No offense, but that's a pretty stupid thing to say. If you did some research you would find out why...

Thank you Greg Popovich for being a stand up guy who who calls it like he sees it without being arrogant.

And to anybody who says the US beat Spain oh so easily in the Olympic finals should go and watch the game again. There's a reason it was called the best international game ever.

[cotdt]

The best international players like Pau Gasol and Yao Ming play in the NBA, so it is valid to say the NBA champion is the world champion.

[ZenMaster]

The best international players like Pau Gasol and Yao Ming play in the NBA, so it is valid to say the NBA champion is the world champion.

Not all of the best players in the world play in the US.

So when the US will win the world championship tournament people will be like "wait, what? we already have a world champion back in LA".

Champions league winners don't call themselves world champions, they call themselves Champions league winners. The league has enough credibility for the clubs not having to say anything else than Champions league winners. The NBA has the same credibility, it's just arrogant to try and add more to it.

[BigTicket]

He's right.

Spain won the world championship, so they are the world champions. For someone else to claim that title without earning it is really disrespectful.

[KAJ=GOAT]

[QUOTE=Lakas Fan Yo]This is one of the most arrogant and ridiculous things in basketball, how the NBA refers to the North American champions as the "world champions", which is an outright lie and obviously not factually true.

Well looks like Popovich is calling bull shit out on the NBA over this:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1243094&srvc=next_article

By Steve Bulpett
Boston Herald

The Celtics have 17 banners hanging from the Garden ceiling declaring the club

[ZenMaster]

Since when is Toronto a city of the united states?

So you stopped reading after what you put in bold?

"When someone mentioned Toronto, Pop said,

[vinsane01]

MLB should change theirs from The World Series to the North America Series.


Yeah i always wondered why they call it the world series. Today its more evident why they shouldnt call it the world series. The best baseball country in the world ATM is japan. Korea is 2nd.

And oh yeah, Popovich speaks the truth!

[ImmortalD24]

It's been that way for over 60 years and it's on every single banner. Deal with it.

[ZenMaster]

It's been that way for over 60 years and it's on every single banner. Deal with it.

Not true. Deal with it.

[Rameek]

MLB should change theirs from The World Series to the North America Series.
Unlike the NBA Baseball is a global sport with players from all around the world... Not necessarily all the best players from the World play in the MLB but a good amount... Japan restricts there players from being drafted or developed by foreign entities.

The Nba isnt a global talent based organization with that many great players from around the world. Eventually it could catch up.

[Rameek]

I guess if a MLB or NBA champion team plays in a tournament of the championship teams from around the world it could be considered World Champion.

[Walker]

If the NBA teams are so vastly superior to the ULEB ones then why did the NBA refuse to play the ULEB zone champ? In fact ULEB even offered to send the second division Eurocup champ to play the NBA and still the NBA refused.

Just like how America was allowed to play under different rules than everyone else in the Olympics right? You should go into politics dude, you love spinning complete and utter rubbish with absolutely no facts to base it on. If you hate the NBA and America so much why do you come on here? Go troll a Euroleague board you homer.

Seen as you're clearly too young to know, the NBA Champs DID compete in the club championships afew times in the 90's and it was a complete joke, no other team could even come close to them.
Trying to compare Olympic teams to club teams is moronic. Team USA used to barely even play any warmup matches before tournements and their teams were just all stars, no consideration to chemistry, hence they lost. Exactly why they've changed that within the last few years, now they're back on top...

Like it or not the NBA is the best club competition in the world, put an NBA team that has been playing together all year/years and no other club in the world could come close, hell I'd be willing to bet even the Nets would beat ANY other club outside the NBA 10 times out of 10 games.

On another note the MBL uses the World Series/World Champions because it used to be sponsored by a newspaper called "The World Times", the name has simply suck over the years.

[Bodhi]

I guess if a MLB or NBA champion team plays in a tournament of the championship teams from around the world it could be considered World Champion.

They did this for awhile, but obviously there wasn't much reason in continuing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_Championship

[bada bing]

Hawker, you need to STFU and keep your stupid arrogance to yourself. The europeans in here just kicked your ass and threw you around like a stupid rag doll. But then again, just like your opinions on US politics, you are too dumb to realize that you are wrong and well...stupid.

good job to the european supporters in here...I have to agree with you guys about the whole US team versus european team.

[EricForman]

look, technically, Pop is right. the NBA shouldnt claim to be the world champions. but those of you Euro defenders talking as if the NBA's status as the world best league/best players is in doubt are just taking it too far.

the NBA is still the highest level of ball, and the kobes, lebrons, jordans, hakeems, birds would still whup anyone in the world.

besides, the "world title" is just a technical term that no one really use. how often do you hear people say "Jordan is a six time world champ"? everyone says "he's got rings" or "KG finally won the title!" no one uses "world champion". it's on the banner, that's about it.

[jonathan]

eh... the spain - usa final in 2008 may have been "closer" but it's funny how everyone conveniently forgets the usa blew out "world champion" spain by 37 points only 8 days prior to the final game in the olympics. Maybe those 37 points were off of traveling violations... stupid refs.. Anyway, I don't have an agenda like most people here. The world champion banners are obviously a carryover from the times when the NBA was clearly the dominate world league. Yeah, they should probably be changed, but really, who the hell cares? I'm still trying to figure out why you think 5 million dollars is some sort of amazing incentive for the NBA to take some deal they don't like when their revenue is over 3 billion :wtf:

[Hawker]

Hawker, you need to STFU and keep your stupid arrogance to yourself. The europeans in here just kicked your ass and threw you around like a stupid rag doll. But then again, just like your opinions on US politics, you are too dumb to realize that you are wrong and well...stupid.

good job to the european supporters in here...I have to agree with you guys about the whole US team versus european team.

How did the euros kick my ass again? With the moral victory that Spain won the FIBA tournament and got beat by the USA two years later? Surely the win two years later supercedes a victory two years before.

And lol @ the US politics jab...funny coming from someone who voted for Obama.

I'm all for an NBA vs. Euroleague tournament. It'd be fun. I'm just stating that hanging onto the FIBA tournament is a moral victory when USA beat Spain two years later.

[ZenMaster]

look, technically, Pop is right. the NBA shouldnt claim to be the world champions. but those of you Euro defenders talking as if the NBA's status as the world best league/best players is in doubt are just taking it too far.

the NBA is still the highest level of ball, and the kobes, lebrons, jordans, hakeems, birds would still whup anyone in the world.

besides, the "world title" is just a technical term that no one really use. how often do you hear people say "Jordan is a six time world champ"? everyone says "he's got rings" or "KG finally won the title!" no one uses "world champion". it's on the banner, that's about it.

It's not the NBA who claims it, the teams make their own decisions as to what they want to put on their championship banner.

Spurs banners don't say World champs. They just say NBA champions. Celtics for example only say "World champions"

In team sport events the term "world championship" is for international competition with countries facing each other. Not privately owned clubs.

In soccer you have the FIFA World Championship, the team who wins is the world champions, pretty simple.
The best tournament in Europe (and the world) for clubs is the UEFA champions league, whoever wins is the winner of the champions league, not champions league world champions.

The winner of the champions league participate in a tournament thats called the FIFA Club World cup where they face teams from all six continental confederations. The winner of that tournament is the is called the FIFA Club World cup champions.


Like i said earlier, it's clear that the NBA has the best basketball league in the world. But it's just as clear that the UEFA champions league have the best soccer teams in the world qualifying for it every year. But teams who wins the CL do not call them self the world champions, it's just arrogant and really there should be no need for it if the tournament itself have enough credibility.

[Bandito]

WHO CARES? The best basketball players in the world play in the NBA. NBA>>>>>Euroleague
That's why the NBA players beat Spain in the World Championships:roll:

[U got Served]

That's why the NBA players beat Spain in the World Championships:roll:

ummm, lets see here.......

Pau Gasol (Spain's best player)
Marc Gasol
Rudy Fernandez
Navarro
Garbajosa
Calderon
Rodriguez

These are players who play/have played in the NBA. So yeah, the majority of your best European players play in the NBA.
NBA>>>Euroleague.

[bdreason]

Spain are the World Champs? :oldlol:

Why? Because they won some event we don't care about?

Either the Olympics or the FIBA WC needs to go. I don't want NBA players playing every year, all year. It's hurting the integrity of the real best league in the world, the NBA.


Soccer stopped sending it's top players to the Olympics, so maybe Basketball should do the same, and just concentrate on FIBA WC.

[CeoTypeDoe619]

Worlds best talents. Are World Champs. Thats why all these european,asian, african players coming to the NBA

[bdreason]

That's why the NBA players beat Spain in the World Championships:roll:


We sent the b-squad to the last FIBA WC... because guess what? American NBA players didn't care about the FIBA WC (and neither did Americans).


The rest of the world started getting cocky, so we sent our A-squad (still not ALL our best players) to the Olympics, and stomped Spain and everyone else.

[ZenMaster]

Worlds best talents. Are World Champs. Thats why all these european,asian, african players coming to the NBA


FC Barcelona soccer= The Champions League World Champions

[Nero Tulip]

Some people here are delusional.

1) No, the Boston Celtics were never World Champions. I don't understand why there even are 6 pages on this. Spain are the World Champions because the won the World Championships, this shouldn't be hard to understand even to an american.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact, and the fact that so many americans come here to dispute it just shows how insecure they are.

2) As much as I love the narrative that team USA just didn't care when it got beaten, and then brought their A Team and destroyed the competition, it's just a complete delusion. You could make a case for the previous olympics, but in the last World Championships they did bring the best team they could, and they did care, they just weren't good enough. Also, it's not like they were head and shoulder above any other team in the olympics.

If it helps you feel better, the US should be World Champs next year though, since most of the best non-american players will not play...

(and I guess this time, you'll feel as though you deserved it :ohwell: )

[quasimoto]

Next time you're wondering why the world hates the US so much, read this thread.

[HeyMarkus]

'technically' he's right


but to be honest.. the nba holds the best players in the world. the best of the nba are the best in the world. no debate there.

[ZenMaster]

:rockon:
Next time you're wondering why the world hates the US so much, read this thread.

[Aydin]

he is right ,,, it is so ignorant

[KAJ=GOAT]

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]So you stopped reading after what you put in bold?

"When someone mentioned Toronto, Pop said,

[jonathan]

Some people here are delusional.

Also, it's not like they were head and shoulder above any other team in the olympics.


Yeah you're right they only beat their opponents by an average of 28 points. Dumb delusional americans. I hate them all. Oh wait, half the people in NYC are from my country nooooo. I mean, I only hate americans who are not from my country ? Fail. This whole thread is full of fail.

[davidenk0]

There are more things in the world than the United States, so I don't think its fair to say the NBA Champions are the World Champions.

[Yuki Nagato]

Spain are the World Champs? :oldlol:

Why? Because they won some event we don't care about?


Then Italy isn't the soccer world champion because americans don't care 'bout any soccer event, is that true?

The arrogance in this thread is disgusting.

[niko]

The NBA calls their title the WORLD title so they call their champions the WORLD champs. It is not something that was thought about - it simply was that our league was first, and it's best. I'd take this argument mroe seriously if there was even a .00000001% chance of a team outside the NBA beating an NBA team in a series. (Again, our league was FIRST. Should we change the name because others play ball?)

The Champions league doesn't invite every single championship team does it? Ireland is out of the world cup, should we call it the ALMOST THE WORLD CUP this year?

Seriously, get over yourself. I'm an american soccer fan, i know our league cannot compete. Yet european basketball fans want their leagues to get this massive respect? Why? You are the MLS of basketball.

Is aything i said here even remotely not true?

[ZenMaster]

The NBA calls their title the WORLD title so they call their champions the WORLD champs. It is not something that was thought about - it simply was that our league was first, and it's best. I'd take this argument mroe seriously if there was even a .00000001% chance of a team outside the NBA beating an NBA team in a series. (Again, our league was FIRST. Should we change the name because others play ball?)

The Champions league doesn't invite every single championship team does it? Ireland is out of the world cup, should we call it the ALMOST THE WORLD CUP this year?

Seriously, get over yourself. I'm an american soccer fan, i know our league cannot compete. Yet european basketball fans want their leagues to get this massive respect? Why? You are the MLS of basketball.

Is aything i said here even remotely not true?

The NBA doesn't call their title the World Championship. NBA teams decides for themselves what they want to have on the banner.

[KobeLakers]

the lakers are the world champions

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The whole "world champions" term goes many years behind, in eras when the NBA was so far ahead that the rest of the world seemed irrelevant. Things changed, the rest of the world became stronger, the pros lost some games and international titles, but, since the NBA is still almost universally considered the strongest league, many, mostly Americans, maintain the "world champions" term as a comparative. Popovich was using the technical term. This is also correct. However, if we want to get really technical, the Euroleague champions should also not call themselves "European champions", since the European champion (in Popovich's terms) is Spain. Plus, the Euroleague is not a tournament between all the best European teams, it's a tournament between some of the teams with the best records in the domestic championships of the previous season.

Some fans may call the Euroleague winner the European champ, but the league itself does not. The Euroleague only refers to its winners as the Euroleague champions. Also, ALL of the best European clubs compete under ULEB, either in the Euroleague or the Eurocup. The Eurocup winner automatically competes in the Euroleague the next year. So I don't think you have any valid arguments there.

[Hippie Joe]

America is the worst country ever man, we should be ashamed. Saying you're world champs is just racist man

[Mikaiel]

We sent the b-squad to the last FIBA WC... because guess what? American NBA players didn't care about the FIBA WC (and neither did Americans).

Dwight Howard / Brad Miller
Elton Brand / Chris Bosh / Antawn Jamison
LeBron James / Carmelo Anthony
Dwyane Wade / Joe Johnson / Shane Battier
Chris Paul / Kirk Hinrich

B-squad ?

[ZenMaster]

Dwight Howard / Brad Miller
Elton Brand / Chris Bosh / Antawn Jamison
LeBron James / Carmelo Anthony
Dwyane Wade / Joe Johnson / Shane Battier
Chris Paul / Kirk Hinrich

B-squad ?

Yes and they didn't even care either, no one in the US did, so of course you can't expect those players to win.
They're used to playing for money, playing FIBA tournaments doesn't get you much money so what can you expect from a group like that in a tournament like the world championship? Doesn't matter that they where playing Euro scrubs most of whom don't play in the NBA. THEY DIDN'T CARE, so of course they shouldn't have won!

[KobeLakers]

America is the worst country ever man, we should be ashamed. Saying you're world champs is just racist man

F*CK You .... you F*CKING terrorist b*itch

[Lakas Fan Yo]

We sent the b-squad to the last FIBA WC... because guess what? American NBA players didn't care about the FIBA WC (and neither did Americans).


The rest of the world started getting cocky, so we sent our A-squad (still not ALL our best players) to the Olympics, and stomped Spain and everyone else.

Stop lying. You did NOT send a B squad to the 2006 World Championship. STOP lying.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Some people here are delusional.

1) No, the Boston Celtics were never World Champions. I don't understand why there even are 6 pages on this. Spain are the World Champions because the won the World Championships, this shouldn't be hard to understand even to an american.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact, and the fact that so many americans come here to dispute it just shows how insecure they are.

2) As much as I love the narrative that team USA just didn't care when it got beaten, and then brought their A Team and destroyed the competition, it's just a complete delusion. You could make a case for the previous olympics, but in the last World Championships they did bring the best team they could, and they did care, they just weren't good enough. Also, it's not like they were head and shoulder above any other team in the olympics.

If it helps you feel better, the US should be World Champs next year though, since most of the best non-american players will not play...

(and I guess this time, you'll feel as though you deserved it :ohwell: )


It will be funny to see all the hypocrisy in these forums if USA wins in 2010. If USA wins they will be called "world champions" but when Serbia won in 2002 and Spain in 2006 they are NOT world champions........according to NBA fans 2002 world champions were the Lakers and 2006 world champions were the Heat.

Somehow I don't see Team USA having their world championship title removed by NBA fans if they win the gold like Serbia and Spain have been stripped of this title in place of that year's NBA champs.

Funny dichotomy for NBA fans. I guess they will come up with a new idea that there are 2 world champions.....an asterisk for any year in which Team USA NBA players win the world championship. So I guess they will claim 2 world champions this year, the NBA winner and Team USA if they win in Turkey.


It's just hilarious.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The NBA calls their title the WORLD title so they call their champions the WORLD champs. It is not something that was thought about - it simply was that our league was first, and it's best. I'd take this argument mroe seriously if there was even a .00000001% chance of a team outside the NBA beating an NBA team in a series. (Again, our league was FIRST. Should we change the name because others play ball?)

The Champions league doesn't invite every single championship team does it? Ireland is out of the world cup, should we call it the ALMOST THE WORLD CUP this year?

Seriously, get over yourself. I'm an american soccer fan, i know our league cannot compete. Yet european basketball fans want their leagues to get this massive respect? Why? You are the MLS of basketball.

Is aything i said here even remotely not true?

The NBA was not the first national professional basketball league. In fact it was not even close to being the first.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Yes and they didn't even care either, no one in the US did, so of course you can't expect those players to win.
They're used to playing for money, playing FIBA tournaments doesn't get you much money so what can you expect from a group like that in a tournament like the world championship? Doesn't matter that they where playing Euro scrubs most of whom don't play in the NBA. THEY DIDN'T CARE, so of course they shouldn't have won!

Yeah, coach K only cares about being college basketball champ, world champ isn't of interest to him.

[ZenMaster]

The NBA calls their title the WORLD title so they call their champions the WORLD champs. It is not something that was thought about - it simply was that our league was first, and it's best. I'd take this argument mroe seriously if there was even a .00000001% chance of a team outside the NBA beating an NBA team in a series. (Again, our league was FIRST. Should we change the name because others play ball?)

The Champions league doesn't invite every single championship team does it? Ireland is out of the world cup, should we call it the ALMOST THE WORLD CUP this year?

Seriously, get over yourself. I'm an american soccer fan, i know our league cannot compete. Yet european basketball fans want their leagues to get this massive respect? Why? You are the MLS of basketball.

Is aything i said here even remotely not true?

It does within Europe in qualifying system that makes sure the best teams get to join. The champions league winner plays teams from other continental championships in a tournament labeled as the Club world championship.

[Walker]

The NBA was not the first national professional basketball league. In fact it was not even close to being the first.
You serously love failing don't you. It WAS the first national pro league:

"The NBL started with thirteen previously independent teams in 1937"

"In 1946, the Basketball Association of America (BAA) was formed. The first game was played in Toronto, Ontario, Canada between the Toronto Huskies and New York Knickerbockers on November 1, 1946. Three seasons later, in 1949, the BAA merged with the National Basketball League to form the National Basketball Association"

The only organised competitions before that were college games, hence not pro.

See that? That's called evidence, you might wanna try it sometime if you want people to take you seriously.

[Bodhi]

Some fans may call the Euroleague winner the European champ, but the league itself does not. The Euroleague only refers to its winners as the Euroleague champions. Also, ALL of the best European clubs compete under ULEB, either in the Euroleague or the Eurocup. The Eurocup winner automatically competes in the Euroleague the next year. So I don't think you have any valid arguments there.

Someone has a serious inferiority complex. Look, there can only be one #1, and in basketball in the USA. Just get over it already.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

You serously love failing don't you. It WAS the first national pro league:

"The NBL started with thirteen previously independent teams in 1937"

"In 1946, the Basketball Association of America (BAA) was formed. The first game was played in Toronto, Ontario, Canada between the Toronto Huskies and New York Knickerbockers on November 1, 1946. Three seasons later, in 1949, the BAA merged with the National Basketball League to form the National Basketball Association"

The only organised competitions before that were college games, hence not pro.

See that? That's called evidence, you might wanna try it sometime if you want people to take you seriously.


No it was NOT. Most European basketball leagues started well before the NBA did. You are just making up nonsense.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Someone has a serious inferiority complex. Look, there can only be one #1, and in basketball in the USA. Just get over it already.

If you accuse someone of having an inferiority complex, at least have the decency to actually know what that means. You clearly don't even know what an inferiority complex is. Not surprising as you obviously have one yourself based on your comments in this board.

[Grey Dawn]

What makes the Spanish team World Champions?

Winning the World Championships...hahahaha :lol :lol :lol :oldlol: :oldlol:

[bdreason]

Winning the World Championships...hahahaha :lol :lol :lol :oldlol: :oldlol:


The real question is, why should FIBA be considered the "World Championship"?

Both the NBA and Olympics have higher talent level... but FIBA is the "World Championship"? :oldlol:

The same Spanish team that won FIBA (against our b-squad) lost to USA in the Olympics.

The Spanish team are paper champs, at best.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The real question is, why should FIBA be considered the "World Championship"?

Both the NBA and Olympics have higher talent level... but FIBA is the "World Championship"? :oldlol:

The same Spanish team that won FIBA (against our b-squad) lost to USA in the Olympics.

The Spanish team are paper champs, at best.

The Olympics is not as high a level of competition as the world championship. You clearly have a very limited knowledge of basketball. The world championship is definitely above the Olympics.

[bdreason]

The Olympics is not as high a level of competition as the world championship. You clearly have a very limited knowledge of basketball. The world championship is definitely above the Olympics.


The same Spanish team that won FIBA WC, lost in the Olympics... what's your excuse for that?

Like I said, FIBA "World Champions" = paper champs. Nobody who knows Basketball thinks Spain is the best team in the world.

Wait, let me guess your response, "you obviously have very limited knowledge of Basketball". :oldlol:

[Mikaiel]

The same Spanish team that won FIBA (against our b-squad) lost to USA in the Olympics.

1. It wasn't our B-squad.

2. Spain never played against us in the WC.

Do you even know what you're talking about ?

[bdreason]

1. It wasn't our B-squad.

2. Spain never played against us in the WC.

Do you even know what you're talking about ?


It was our B-squad (Jamison, Brand, Hinrich, Battier, BRAD MILLER... these are our top guys?), and regardless of if Spain played the USA (which I knew they didn't), they managed to win the FIBA WC, yet couldn't win the Olympics... but FIBA was "higher level competition"? Surely if they could win FIBA, they could win the Olympics...


The truth is, the USA is the best team in the world, and assuming we actually send our best players (even in the Olympics we didn't send ALL of our best players), the only team that is a real threat is Spain.

If it were a 7 game series (which really proves who is best), not even Spain would stand a chance... but anything can happen in one game.


Do you even know what you're talking about?

[Mikaiel]

It was our B-squad (Jamison, Brand, Hinrich, Battier, BRAD MILLER... these are our top guys?)

What about LeBron, Wade, Melo, Dwight, Paul, Bosh ? They were on the Olympic team.

Sure it wasn't the best squad we could have sent, but you can't complain when you have that kind of talent on your team. We're not talking about Athens here ...


they managed to win the FIBA WC, yet couldn't win the Olympics... but FIBA was "higher level competition"? Surely if they could win FIBA, they could win the Olympics...

I don't know what moron argued that the WC had better competition than the Olympics. It's the same. Except players are more motivated in the Olympics. Everyone dreams of winning a gold medal for his country. But who the **** cares about the WC ? :confusedshrug:

[Timmy D for MVP]

There's only one way to prove a legitamte world champion and that'd be if a team played every other team that wants to challenge them for the spot of World Champion in a seven game series. Like boxing.

Since that will never happen who cares? Unless you have some sort of agenda. But who could be that retarded?

When you create your own league call yourselves Universe Champions if it makes you feel better.

[Juges8932]

I agree with Pop. It always kind of bothered me (not a lot, just in passing thought) when they would announce teams as the world champs or w.e. They are the NBA champs. Which like he said, is good enough IMO. Just comes off as arrogant.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

It was our B-squad (Jamison, Brand, Hinrich, Battier, BRAD MILLER... these are our top guys?), and regardless of if Spain played the USA (which I knew they didn't), they managed to win the FIBA WC, yet couldn't win the Olympics... but FIBA was "higher level competition"? Surely if they could win FIBA, they could win the Olympics...


The truth is, the USA is the best team in the world, and assuming we actually send our best players (even in the Olympics we didn't send ALL of our best players), the only team that is a real threat is Spain.

If it were a 7 game series (which really proves who is best), not even Spain would stand a chance... but anything can happen in one game.


Do you even know what you're talking about?


You know damn well that was no B squad. You are so full of crap.

[crisoner]

This stuff all started with Baseball and the World Series when the only teams that have been competing are from the States.

There has to be some history behind this though....maybe because the British Empire kicked us out from playing cricket so calling the baseball championship game the World Series is a big FU to the Brits?????

[SilkyJohnson]

maybe because the British Empire kicked us out from playing cricket so calling the baseball championship game the World Series is a big FU to the Brits?????

Yeah, because the Americans passing themselves off as arrogant yokels who think the world revolves around them has taught the British a lesson.

:rockon:

[HeyMarkus]

the nba holds the best players in the world. the best of the nba are the best in the world. no debate there.

whats hard about this? :confusedshrug:

[Grey Dawn]

The real question is, why should FIBA be considered the "World Championship"?

Both the NBA and Olympics have higher talent level... but FIBA is the "World Championship"? :oldlol:

The same Spanish team that won FIBA (against our b-squad) lost to USA in the Olympics.

The Spanish team are paper champs, at best.

What does the 'I' in FIBA stand for?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

I don't know what moron argued that the WC had better competition than the Olympics. It's the same. Except players are more motivated in the Olympics. Everyone dreams of winning a gold medal for his country. But who the **** cares about the WC ? :confusedshrug:

1. 12th placed EuroBasket teams can make the top 8 of the Olympics

2. The Olympics fields only 12 teams and that includes weak teams like China, Angola, and Iran. Numerous excellent teams that are among the best in the world do not play at the Olympics

3. The world championship has 90% of the best teams in the world, while the Olympics has maybe 50%

4. The world championship is harder to win because it is a bigger tournament, has more of the best teams, and the schedule is harder

5. In the Olympics the group stage is easier because there are more give me games


Anyone that thinks the Olympics is a higher level tournament than the world championship is totally drinking David Stern's NBA marketing hype machine kool aide. It is a simple fact that the world championship is a higher level competition than the Olympics.

[Nero Tulip]

Yeah you're right they only beat their opponents by an average of 28 points. Dumb delusional americans. I hate them all. Oh wait, half the people in NYC are from my country nooooo. I mean, I only hate americans who are not from my country ? Fail. This whole thread is full of fail.

The Olympics "admission" system is somewhat retarded, meaning that there are mostly scrubby teams and 4-5 teams max that are actually here to win. So the average is not very telling here.

And I am not Italian if that's what you meant. Pretty sure half of the people in NYC aren't from my country.

Also, I don't think Americans are delusional, or stupid (some are, like everywhere), but people in general should learn to stfu about things they don't know. Every time I see someone on that board saying the Euroleague sucks, I have to wonder if they ever watched a game?


The real question is, why should FIBA be considered the "World Championship"?

Both the NBA and Olympics have higher talent level... but FIBA is the "World Championship"? :oldlol:

The same Spanish team that won FIBA (against our b-squad) lost to USA in the Olympics.

The Spanish team are paper champs, at best.

Just not true...

The only reason why some americans think the World Championships aren't important, is because the US didn't win it last time...

I think the US will win next time, and people will magically change their minds about the World Championships.

[jonathan]

The Olympics "admission" system is somewhat retarded, meaning that there are mostly scrubby teams and 4-5 teams max that are actually here to win. So the average is not very telling here.


In comparison Argentina and Spain's average point differential against those same scrubs was ~ +7. I'm not disagreeing about the world championships being better than the olympics - only about your point that the USA team in 2008 wasn't "head and shoulders" better than any other team. In my opinion, they gave a pretty dominant performance.

Also, I think the reason why the WC aren't more recognized here is because they receive little media attention especially compared to the olympics. I'm a casual NBA fan probably like most fans. The people on these boards are (arguably) much more knowledgable than the average NBA fan... and are probably in the minority. The only time I even saw the WC mentioned on TV is in 2002 (?) when we started losing games and they made a big stink about it on the news channels. I never even knew it even existed previously.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

In comparison Argentina and Spain's average point differential against those same scrubs was ~ +7. I'm not disagreeing about the world championships being better than the olympics - only about your point that the USA team in 2008 wasn't "head and shoulders" better than any other team. In my opinion, they gave a pretty dominant performance.

Also, I think the reason why the WC aren't more recognized here is because they receive little media attention especially compared to the olympics. I'm a casual NBA fan probably like most fans. The people on these boards are (arguably) much more knowledgable than the average NBA fan... and are probably in the minority. The only time I even saw the WC mentioned on TV is in 2002 (?) when we started losing games and they made a big stink about it on the news channels. I never even knew it even existed previously.

The upcoming world championship will get a lot more attention in the US. David Stern and the NBA are losing tons of money and they need the World Championship revenue big time. Stern has been investing a lot of time with FIBA on this world championship. Also, ESPN is going to be broadcasting the games in the US on TV and the internet.

[Walker]

No it was NOT. Most European basketball leagues started well before the NBA did. You are just making up nonsense.
LMAO my god you are a tard. The first national league in europe was in Germany, started in 1939, 2 years after the NBL which became the NBA.
You failed again. Seriously give up, you're just pathetic now.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

LMAO my god you are a tard. The first national league in europe was in Germany, started in 1939, 2 years after the NBL which became the NBA.
You failed again. Seriously give up, you're just pathetic now.

Wrong. You are just making up total lies. I'm not even going to respond to you. You have no class and are a total troll.

[Walker]

Wrong. You are just making up total lies. I'm not even going to respond to you. You have no class and are a total troll.
We're all aware who the troll here is dude and it ain't me.
I have stated facts, I can easily post links to prove them. All you can say is "wrong you lie!" with no counter evidence at all.
You consistantly post rubbish with no evidence, when proved wrong you can't even admit it. It's sad.
I guareentee if a poll was made not one single person here would back you up that I'm wrong, cause I'm not.
You should change your name to Fail Fan Yo cause you do love it.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

We're all aware who the troll here is dude and it ain't me.
I have stated facts, I can easily post links to prove them. All you can say is "wrong you lie!" with no counter evidence at all.
You consistantly post rubbish with no evidence, when proved wrong you can't even admit it. It's sad.
I guareentee if a poll was made not one single person here would back you up that I'm wrong, cause I'm not.
You should change your name to Fail Fan Yo cause you do love it.

Several basketball leagues in Europe began before 1936 and so did FIBA. At this point you may be the most pathetic poster in this forum.

[Walker]

Seen as tho you're too stupid to understand I'll point it out for you. Your original statement:


The NBA was not the first national professional basketball league. In fact it was not even close to being the first.

Do you even know what professional sport means? Clearly not. It means they are GETTING PAID to play.
The NBA was the first PROFESSIONAL Basketball league you twit, look it up, it's not hard.
Geez this is like dealing with a "special" kid...

[sirkeelma]

Seen as tho you're too stupid to understand I'll point it out for you. Your original statement:



Do you even know what professional sport means? Clearly not. It means they are GETTING PAID to play.
The NBA was the first PROFESSIONAL Basketball league you twit, look it up, it's not hard.
Geez this is like dealing with a "special" kid...

:roll:

[PianoMan]

U.S. vs everyone else combined

Paul/Williams
Kobe/Roy/JJ
Lebron/Melo/Durant
Bosh/Amare
Dwight/Bynum

vs

Nash
Manu
????
Dirk/Gasol/Scola
Bogut/Gortat/Gasol
Rofl how the hell did you forget Wade? You have something agaisnt him.

[lakerspng]

what a ridiculous thread. seriously

why does anyone care if the NBA champs call themselves the world champs?

does anyone seriously think that any club team from anywhere in the world could take on the lakers, Cavs, Celtics, Nuggets, etc in a 7 game series?

and I say club team, because Spain is not eligible, that's a country's team. And even if a country sent their team and not a club, Spain for instance, they'd be missing their best player as pau gasol plays for the current NBA champs, the Lakers.

If all the greatest talent in the world is pooled into one league and that league has a champion, that's decided through a playoff tournament/series it's probably a pretty safe bet that you could call that team the world champs.

I'm not saying they should be. I call the Lakers the NBA Champs, but for those protesting so vehemently... what are you trying to establish? That the Lakers are not the best club team in the world or that you dislike American's attitudes?

[ZenMaster]

what a ridiculous thread. seriously

why does anyone care if the NBA champs call themselves the world champs?

does anyone seriously think that any club team from anywhere in the world could take on the lakers, Cavs, Celtics, Nuggets, etc in a 7 game series?

and I say club team, because Spain is not eligible, that's a country's team. And even if a country sent their team and not a club, Spain for instance, they'd be missing their best player as pau gasol plays for the current NBA champs, the Lakers.

If all the greatest talent in the world is pooled into one league and that league has a champion, that's decided through a playoff tournament/series it's probably a pretty safe bet that you could call that team the world champs.

I'm not saying they should be. I call the Lakers the NBA Champs, but for those protesting so vehemently... what are you trying to establish? That the Lakers are not the best club team in the world or that you dislike American's attitudes?


Just that it's arrogant when there's already is an official title like "world champs"

Basically the same thing that Greg Popovich stated by talking about it officially. I guess he thinks enough about it to talk about it, and to his banners only say "NBA Champions" -- What's so wrong with that?

[apesta]

We are all probably aware that NBA is the best basketball league in the world. but the fact is, the league isnt consist of teams around the world. To be called world champs is arrogant. For any team to be consider world champs, they must beat other best teams around the world to be consider as such. I agree with what Pop said. Same thing goes for World Series.

[Jack]

Arrogance is sometimes good. I think NBA has the right to call NBA champions-World Champions.

As you have read before, this term goes long way back. Second of all that means NBA champions are best in the world among clubs, not national teams.
You all know Euroleague champions do not stand a chance against NBA champions.

The level of play, quality is just better in the States. You can see results when Euro teams come to USA and play NBA teams in the offseason. They usually get blown out.

I do not see why Boston Celtics should change their banners just because Greg Popovich says, or some guy from the Europe who hates America. The C's have a ****ing TRADITION (so haters try to understand the meaning of this word).

Los Angeles Lakers World Champions 2009

:D

[Qwertyazerty]

It doesn't matter to me if they want to call themselves "World champions". I haven't seen any not American paper or media calling them World champions so I guess they can consider themselves as they want to.

It may be arrogant to do so, but it certainly is stupid to feel bad because they do

[lakerspng]

Just that it's arrogant when there's already is an official title like "world champs"

Basically the same thing that Greg Popovich stated by talking about it officially. I guess he thinks enough about it to talk about it, and to his banners only say "NBA Champions" -- What's so wrong with that?

I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but I think asking the Celtics to take down their banners and remake them simply because the face of basketball has changed a bit from when they began their legacy is not a respectful or viable option.

Honestly the NBA should have set a standard for this and it's very strange that David Stern, as controlling as he is, never has.

Also, I respectfully disagree that the NBA does not represent all the best the world has to offer, thereby giving it the legitimacy of calling it's champion, world champions. If the NBA were reserved for only American nationals, I could see the arguement, but the fact that every single great team/player that has been mentioned as being part of the great international teams that should have a say in who the "World Champ" is, actually play in the NBA, disputes it. The NBA is a collection of the greatest players and therefore, the greatest basketball clubs in the world. That being the case, you could argue that it truly is, the "World Club Championship" would which be a completely different story than the "world Championship" type events that usually pits country against country with National teams.

The NBA as it stands, is host to the professional basketball club World Champhionship.

And to the fact that it's arrogant when there's already a "World Championship" title that is just as arbitrarily handed out because a tournament titles itself the World Championship... which came first, the FIBA "World Championship" or the NBA Finals/Championship?

In 1947, the NBA held its first "NBA World Championship Series"

In 1950 was the first FIBA World Champhionship.

so if it's just about the name, seems the NBA had the "World Championships" first.

[phxsuns4life]

Well, NBA are doing themselves no good by disregarding all the other teams in world and calling the champions of their league "world" champions...a bit of humbliness wouldn't hurt even the most biggest egos of americans, not to mention after suffering all those humiliating defeats to European teams in the last decade

This. The NBA is overall the highest echelon of basketball and they probably would be world champions should they face domestic competiton abroad but they do not. Should be NBA Champs.

[SpanishACB]

By USA'S logic Usain Bolt shouldn't even show himself up in the Olympics, he should just compete in Jamaica's national competitions and winning those would make him the best in the world.

But you guys are mixing things up. There's national teams and there's clubs/franchises. You can't mix those up. For instance, in soccer, Italy are reigning world champions, but so are Barcelona, because after they won the Champions League (best of Europe) they played in a mini tournament called the Club World Cup in which they played against the champions of "Champions Leagues" from other continents.

Sadly in Basketball nothing similar exists, and whilst NBA teams would win 9 times out of 10 in such tournament it would at least allow them a legit claim on best franchise/club in the world.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Usain Bolt shouldn't even show himself up in the Olympics, he should just compete in Jamaica's national competitions and winning those would make him the best in the world.

Yeah, but then he would still have the WR :hammerhead:

[Psileas]

Some fans may call the Euroleague winner the European champ, but the league itself does not. The Euroleague only refers to its winners as the Euroleague champions. Also, ALL of the best European clubs compete under ULEB, either in the Euroleague or the Eurocup. The Eurocup winner automatically competes in the Euroleague the next year. So I don't think you have any valid arguments there.

1) I don't think the NBA itself officially uses the term "World Champions", either. Not 100% sure, but I don't think it does.
2) No, there's no way to prove that "ALL" the best European clubs compete in the Euroleague. The fact that there's a fixed number of participating teams for every country makes it even more improbable. There are a lot of European teams better than these German or French Euroleague teams, just like there were a lot of European teams better than the squad that Prokom had a few years ago, not to mention older seasons, when we used to even see Portuguese and English joke-teams compete at this level and Italian-Spanish monsters stay outside.
3) Yes, the Eurocup winner automatically competes in the Euroleague the next year. But that's the point. We don't know how good the team is going to be next year...

[Lakas Fan Yo]

1) I don't think the NBA itself officially uses the term "World Champions", either. Not 100% sure, but I don't think it does.
2) No, there's no way to prove that "ALL" the best European clubs compete in the Euroleague. The fact that there's a fixed number of participating teams for every country makes it even more improbable. There are a lot of European teams better than these German or French Euroleague teams, just like there were a lot of European teams better than the squad that Prokom had a few years ago, not to mention older seasons, when we used to even see Portuguese and English joke-teams compete at this level and Italian-Spanish monsters stay outside.
3) Yes, the Eurocup winner automatically competes in the Euroleague the next year. But that's the point. We don't know how good the team is going to be next year...

Basically all the top 30 clubs in Europe are in the Euroleague and the Eurocup. If you win the Eurocup you go to the Euroleague. So yes, ULEB basically covers all the top clubs in Europe.

And according to this article from Boston's paper that I posted here, it stated that the NBA itself told the Celtics to put world champions on the banner. So that means the NBA itself is behind it.

[ZenMaster]

Basically all the top 30 clubs in Europe are in the Euroleague and the Eurocup. If you win the Eurocup you go to the Euroleague. So yes, ULEB basically covers all the top clubs in Europe.

And according to this article from Boston's paper that I posted here, it stated that the NBA itself told the Celtics to put world champions on the banner. So that means the NBA itself is behind it.


Hmm what about San Antonio then? Theirs only say NBA Champions. I'm pretty sure they can decide for themselves.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Hmm what about San Antonio then? Theirs only say NBA Champions. I'm pretty sure they can decide for themselves.

Popovich decided to go against the NBA on his own.

[ZenMaster]

Popovich decided to go against the NBA on his own.

They can chose for themselves. Some say NBA Champions, some NBA World Champions and some just World Champions.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

They can chose for themselves. Some say NBA Champions, some NBA World Champions and some just World Champions.

No. The Spurs are the only team that says just NBA champs and they changed it after Manu told them the NBA champ was not the world champ. Popovich thought about it and he agreed.

The NBA still tells teams to put world championship on the banner. The reason the Spurs don't have it is because they refused to agree to it after Popovich and Manu decided it was incorrect. In fact there was actually an argument about it with Stern and after it he began calling the NBA champ "the NBA champ" and announced he would not say "world champ" anymore.

However, he used "world champ" again when the Lakers and Celtics won so he is full of it.

[ZenMaster]

No. The Spurs are the only team that says just NBA champs and they changed it after Manu told them the NBA champ was not the world champ. Popovich thought about it and he agreed.

The NBA still tells teams to put world championship on the banner. The reason the Spurs don't have it is because they refused to agree to it after Popovich and Manu decided it was incorrect. In fact there was actually an argument about it with Stern and after it he began calling the NBA champ "the NBA champ" and announced he would not say "world champ" anymore.

However, he used "world champ" again when the Lakers and Celtics won so he is full of it.

The spurs changed them? Do you have a link for this?

[Timmy D for MVP]

No. The Spurs are the only team that says just NBA champs and they changed it after Manu told them the NBA champ was not the world champ. Popovich thought about it and he agreed.

The NBA still tells teams to put world championship on the banner. The reason the Spurs don't have it is because they refused to agree to it after Popovich and Manu decided it was incorrect. In fact there was actually an argument about it with Stern and after it he began calling the NBA champ "the NBA champ" and announced he would not say "world champ" anymore.

However, he used "world champ" again when the Lakers and Celtics won so he is full of it.

The Bulls say NBA World Champs which they were.

The Heat say NBA Champions which they were.

Houston Rockets say NBA World Champions which they were.

The Sonics say NBA World Champions which they were.

The Washington Bullets say NBA World Champions which they were.

The ones I couldn't find info on at all were the 76ers, Knicks, Warriors, and Blazers. Can someone help me outwith those?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The Bulls say NBA World Champs which they were.

The Heat say NBA Champions which they were.

Houston Rockets say NBA World Champions which they were.

The Sonics say NBA World Champions which they were.

The Washington Bullets say NBA World Champions which they were.

The ones I couldn't find info on at all were the 76ers, Knicks, Warriors, and Blazers. Can someone help me outwith those?

Funny, because the Bullets, "the world champions", were defeated by the European champions. So right there is an example of an American champ (no Canadian NBA teams then) getting beaten by the European champ.

But, the American champ, which actually then lost to the European champ, still claims to have been the "world champions" that year. So that Bullets banner is an outright LIE. There is simply no reason for that other than a marketing gimmick for this stuff to be done by the NBA or its teams.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The spurs changed them? Do you have a link for this?

You should be able to find it if you look. I don't have time right now. Manu had an argument about it I believe after the 2005 Spurs championship. He said Spurs were not world champs and they should stop claiming that.

Popovich thought about it and agreed and realized he was totally right. The Spurs 1999 and 2003 banners which had said "world champions" were then changed to "NBA champions".

As the article stated, the NBA itself is behind this.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Funny, because the Bullets, "the world champions", were defeated by the European champions. So right there is an example of an American champ (no Canadian NBA teams then) getting beaten by the European champ.

But, the American champ, which actually then lost to the European champ, still claims to have been the "world champions" that year. So that Bullets banner is an outright LIE. There is simply no reason for that other than a marketing gimmick for this stuff to be done by the NBA or its teams.

Really it's a lie to say they were the NBA Champions of the World? Because I believe that's exactly what they were. NBA Champions of the World.

Also was this a 7 game series? Highly contested affair?

[Psileas]

You should be able to find it if you look. I don't have time right now. Manu had an argument about it I believe after the 2005 Spurs championship. He said Spurs were not world champs and they should stop claiming that.

Popovich thought about it and agreed and realized he was totally right. The Spurs 1999 and 2003 banners which had said "world champions" were then changed to "NBA champions".

As the article stated, the NBA itself is behind this.

Come on, this was just a friendly game, not a formal one, let alone a whole series. Do you think there weren't hundreds of games when the "European" or "World" or "Olympic" champion was later defeated? They haven't suddenly become an undefeated team...

Just a random example: Real Madrid, the '95 Euroleague Champion, lost the Spanish Championship to Barcelona the very same year. So, according to this logic, there goes the "European Champion" thing.

[stephanieg]

It's fine by me, as long as stacked team USA rosters still lose to super white teams with cool beards.