Which one was overrated John Stockton Or Karl Malone?

[CeoTypeDoe619]

They both are considered top 20 players of all time. And probably would be ranked higher if they could have won something.
They both played together in their prime and couldnt win ONE measly Championship. Yes their was Scottie & Jordan but they couldn't steal one series from them? And lets not blame Jordan because its not like Jazz were constantly coming out the West. If you grab any small & big from the top 20 let them play in their prime they would easily be a Dynasty.
Which leaves me to believe one or possibly both were overrated.
Yes Stockton has crazy assist,steals and Malone Points, Boards
But we all know stats can always be very misleading

[plowking]

Stockton. People like to talk how the system helped Nash, well same goes here.

Karl Malone was just a beast. He would have averaged 28/11 where ever he went in his prime.

[LAClipsFan33]

When people start saying stupid sh*t like Stockton may have been better than Magic then he's overrated. When people stay in their lane its cool.

Malone...I've never heard people overrate Malone. Sometimes he is underrated

[Toizumi]

Neither.

Both are top 10 players at their position all time.

[Force]

Neither was overrated.

Karl Malone was frickin awesome

[High Roller]

Neither.

Both are top 5 players at their position all time.

Fixed.

[iamgine]

Yeah it's definitely mind boggling how the Jazz couldn't win the title. Or even contend before 96-97, sometimes losing in first rounds. How did they lose time and time and time again to other teams who definitely had less talent?

And then there's Jerry Sloan, who is obviously considered a good coach to say the least. It's the same situation with MJ, Pippen and Phil. Yet, the Jazz had very different outcome. What gives?

[fefe]

Neither.

Both are top 3 players at their position all time.

FIXED

[JohnnySic]

If anything they are underrated. Stockton and Malone would be the best players at their positions if they were in their prime today.

[fefe]

Malone has a great case for best PF ever.
If you consider Duncan a PF, he is #1 by default, but he is a C to me (and not a top5 ever center at that.).
At PF the competion for all time best for Malone is basically Sir Charles and that's it.

At PG, Magic is considered #1 no contest,
#2 is between Stockton and the big O..

[plowking]

Stockton is most definately not top 3 at his position.

Isiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Oscar Robertson are all better and you could make a case for Archibald.

[Shep]

Stockton is most definately not top 3 at his position.

Isiah Thomas, Gary Payton, Oscar Robertson are all better and you could make a case for Archibald.
don't forget john crotty

[fefe]

don't forget john crotty

Payton is certainly not ahead of Stockton on the All-Time PG list.
Stockton is the better passer, and he even beats Payton in stealing, which was the Glove's trademark. Stockton had the better PG stats, the more achievements and the better carrier. I don't see your case here.

Isiah Thomas has a case based on the 2 rings and finals MVPs (he has no case based on stats or anything else) and Robertson has a case based on stats averages (his scoring numbers are way too high for a PG though, which can be regarded as a negative), but Stockton's carrier total numbers and achievements give him the edge at the PG position in my eyes.

He is like the Kareem of PG's. His carrier numbers will remain untouched, like... forever...
He has 15,806 assists, with the 2nd all time (Kidd) having 10,864.
He has 3,265 steals, with the 2nd all time (Jordan) having 2,514.

[Fallguy20]

Neither.

Both are the top players at their position all time.

Fixxeeedd...
Too far?

:D

[plowking]

Payton is certainly not ahead of Stockton on the All-Time PG list.
Stockton is the better passer, and he even beats Payton in stealing, which was the Glove's trademark. Stockton had the better PG stats, the more achievements and the better carrier. I don't see your case here.

Isiah Thomas has a case based on the 2 rings and finals MVPs (he has no case based on stats or anything else) and Robertson has a case based on stats averages (his scoring numbers are way too high for a PG though, which can be regarded as a negative), but Stockton's carrier total numbers and achievements give him the edge at the PG position in my eyes.

He is like the Kareem of PG's. His carrier numbers will remain untouched, like... forever...
He has 15,806 assists, with the 2nd all time (Kidd) having 10,864.
He has 3,265 steals, with the 2nd all time (Jordan) having 2,514.

What in the hell are better "pg stats"? Payton had better stats.
Stockton had more steals? That's awesome and all, though Payton was twice the defender, hell even more.

Isiah doesn't have a case in stats? 21ppg, 14apg, 5rpg along with 2 steals is better than anything Stockton could dream of doing. And his career averages of 19 and 9 are better than Stockton's.
Also Gary's 24/9/7/2 seasons is better than Stockton has ever done.
Both are more accomplished as well.

[plowking]

don't forget john crotty

Don't forget you're a homosexual.

[godofgods]

Neither. Both are underrated.

Overrated? That's Kobe. Payton. Amare.

[NinjaSeal]

stockton = best longetivity pg
malone = best longtivity pf


malone joining the lakers was disrespectful

[fefe]

What in the hell are better "pg stats"? Payton had better stats.
Stockton had more steals? That's awesome and all, though Payton was twice the defender, hell even more.

Isiah doesn't have a case in stats? 21ppg, 14apg, 5rpg along with 2 steals is better than anything Stockton could dream of doing. And his career averages of 19 and 9 are better than Stockton's.
Also Gary's 24/9/7/2 seasons is better than Stockton has ever done.
Both are more accomplished as well.

Disregard the PPG above 15, because a real PG should not score more than that.
You get that Stockton has the best PG stats.

[Horatio33]

malone was overrated. they used the pick and roll more than any other duo ever. stockton nearly averaged 15 assists a game one year. and holds the record for career. who recieved most of those passes?

also malone ws anti-clutch. stockton was pretty clutch.

i think stockton is a bit overrated, but malone is massivly overrated.

[2LeTTeRS]

Disregard the PPG above 15, because a real PG should not score more than that.
You get that Stockton has the best PG stats.

Says who? A real PG should do whatever he can to put points on the board. This seems like something your just pulling out of your ass so you can say Stockton is better.

[fefe]

Says who? A real PG should do whatever he can to put points on the board. This seems like something your just pulling out of your ass so you can say Stockton is better.

Says me... Of course this is just my opinion...
something that we share on the forums...

I don't think a PG's job is to score. You think it is.
I rate Stockton above Payton as a PG, you don't.
I'm ok with having a different opinion from yours... I think you should be ok with it as well ;)

[L.A. Jazz]

i loved both of them back in the 90s. but i have to say the Jazz teams were not that good.they play perfect team basketball. 2 allstar players and lots of good guys.but none of them was a guy you could give the ball and score in the clutch.

Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Ginobili, Pierce,... the Jazz didnt have such a player.
a system can bring you this far, but to win it all you need such a guy.
Malone (my childhood hero) wasnt that player and Stockton did everything well on the court and was clutch when open but was not the best shot creator for himself. (due to his height and athletic disadvantage)

i love watching Sloans teams play basketball the right way, but you need closers for broken plays in clutch situations and the Jazz never had that.

[WoGiTaLiA1]

I don't think a PG's job is to score. You think it is. I'm ok with having a different opinion from yours... I think you should be ok with it as well ;)

That's just wrong. A PG's job is to lead and create opportunities for his team, whether that means creating them for himself or for teammates. Some of the best PGs were better scorers than creators.

As for Stockton, he is the best pure PG the league has seen. Magic was a better player, Thomas and Robertson have cases. Stockton is rated right about where he should be, in the best 5 players to play PG in the NBA with perhaps the 2nd best career of the bunch and certainly better than anyone doing it right now.

Malone likewise is hard to overrate. There are only two players with a case as having better careers at PF(Barkley and Duncan) so unless someone is saying he is flat out better than either of those guys all of a sudden he isn't getting overrated either.

Not winning titles in the 80s and 90s isnt the same as today, back then teams were loaded. Check the teams that were in the west back then.

Seattle were like the Suns only with defense. They had a better PF and a better PG, they made one finals series and lost.

The Rockets had a center that was better than any player in the league now and a SG that was as good as most and beyond that they had very good role players. Check the Spurs, right now they are like the mid 90's Rockets only Duncan can't touch prime Hakeem.

Portland when they had Drexler were awesome, Kevin Duckworth would be in the best couple of centers right now and he was just a scrub on that team.

Phoenix had scary talent. KJ was like CP3 before CP3 only instead of West he had Barkley.

Prior to that you had the Magic lead Lakers.

Spurs had Robinson, again better than anyone playing right now and damn solid role players.

Hell check out the bad teams and they had scary talent, teams like the Mutombo Nuggets.

Honestly, making the WCF in the 90s was as much of an achievement as winning a title right now is because that is how much talent it took to get it done.

[2LeTTeRS]

That's just wrong. A PG's job is to lead and create opportunities for his team, whether that means creating them for himself or for teammates. Some of the best PGs were better scorers than creators.

As for Stockton, he is the best pure PG the league has seen. Magic was a better player, Thomas and Robertson have cases. Stockton is rated right about where he should be, in the best 5 players to play PG in the NBA with perhaps the 2nd best career of the bunch and certainly better than anyone doing it right now.

Malone likewise is hard to overrate. There are only two players with a case as having better careers at PF(Barkley and Duncan) so unless someone is saying he is flat out better than either of those guys all of a sudden he isn't getting overrated either.

I agreed with you up until about here, after that you put your 90s glasses on and started overrated all the teams that played back then.

[MastahX]

Stockton was best PG ever to play the game and create plays.
Magic was the overall better player, but not as pure of a PG than Stockton.

[plowking]

Disregard the PPG above 15, because a real PG should not score more than that.
You get that Stockton has the best PG stats.

The point of basketball is to score points.
I guess Stockton>Magic since he doesn't fit under your rule. :rolleyes:
I guess Paul sucks as well since he averages like 22 and 11...

Your argument is dumber than the typical "this guy was a better *insert position*, but this guy was the better player"...


EDIT: Oh god, I knew some retard would post it.


Stockton was best PG ever to play the game and create plays.
Magic was the overall better player, but not as pure of a PG than Stockton.

[ProfessorMurder]

malone was overrated. they used the pick and roll more than any other duo ever. stockton nearly averaged 15 assists a game one year. and holds the record for career. who recieved most of those passes?

also malone ws anti-clutch. stockton was pretty clutch.

i think stockton is a bit overrated, but malone is massivly overrated.

You're a f*cking idiot.

How is it a bad thing to use an unstoppable pick and roll? Or pass to your best player?

[phoenix18]

Don't forget you're a homosexual.
:oldlol:

Back to the topic, which one is overrated? Neither.


and we're onto the next one... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLgdmGkAUz0)

[fefe]

The point of basketball is to score points.
I guess Stockton>Magic since he doesn't fit under your rule. :rolleyes:
I guess Paul sucks as well since he averages like 22 and 11...

Your argument is dumber than the typical "this guy was a better *insert position*, but this guy was the better player"...


EDIT: Oh god, I knew some retard would post it.


So you don't understand that argument either?
there you go:

Shaquille O'Neal is a better overall player than Mike Bibby, but Mike Bibby is the better pointguard.

I hope I could help you...

[plowking]

So you don't understand that argument either?
there you go:

Shaquille O'Neal is a better overall player than Mike Bibby, but Mike Bibby is the better pointguard.

I hope I could help you...

You make baby jesus weep.

The argument is clearly used by tards like yourself when comparing players of the same position.

[plowking]

:oldlol:

Back to the topic, which one is overrated? Neither.


and we're onto the next one... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLgdmGkAUz0)

That track had me bumpin' at 2am over here. Out of my seat and all. Crip walkin' like Snoop.

[Luigi]

Neither are overrated. False dichotomy, bad question.

Playing in a small market, being the villain for the most media hyped player of all time (Jordan), they could only be underrated.

[fefe]

You make baby jesus weep.

The argument is clearly used by tards like yourself when comparing players of the same position.

And the argument works there as well... :confusedshrug:
"Dirk is a better player than Amare, but Amare is more of a typical PF."

I don't know what is so hard to understand for you.... but I'm tired of trying to explain. So either you get it now, or you don't...

[gts]

i don't think they are over or under rated to be honest...

possibly the best pg pf combo to ever play the game... fact is each one of those players made the other look good, stockton found malone off that pick and roll 9 times out of ten and 9 times out of ten malone made the basket.. everybody knew it was coming yet nobody could stop it...lol

the jazz were the definition of "team basketball" you take a bunch of role players that buy into sloans system, stick in stocton and malone and you had an instant top level team that probably over achieved more than it should have

[gasolina]

The original post is an epitomy of what's wrong with the league today. Why decide which player was overrated individually when clearly these two played one of the best two man games ever.

I don't really get why people knock players over playing in the system when clearly the system is what generates wins.

People should be comparing which teams were more overrated over the other.

[Se]

If anything they are underrated. Stockton and Malone would be the best players at their positions if they were in their prime today.

I totally agree. Stockton and Malone don't get enough love. Look at the rest of their roster. The only other serviceable player is Hornacek.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Malone has a great case for best PF ever.
If you consider Duncan a PF, he is #1 by default, but he is a C to me (and not a top5 ever center at that.).
At PF the competion for all time best for Malone is basically Sir Charles and that's it.

At PG, Magic is considered #1 no contest,
#2 is between Stockton and the big O..



I think your forgetting a Mr. Kevin Garnett.

[Gifted Mind]

While both were playing


Overrated: Karl Malone
Underrated: John Stockton


After both have retired


Overrated: John Stockton
Underrated: Karl Malone

[Bigsmoke]

malone was overrated. they used the pick and roll more than any other duo ever. stockton nearly averaged 15 assists a game one year. and holds the record for career. who recieved most of those passes?

also malone ws anti-clutch. stockton was pretty clutch.

i think stockton is a bit overrated, but malone is massivly overrated.

most of Stockton assist were from pick and rolls with Malone. Malone was already averaging over 20 a game before Stockton was even starting. What i also find funny is that back in 1998, Sloan cut Stockton minutes to 29 a game and only averaged 8.5 assists that year... did that affect Malones stats? no. Malone averaged 27, the same he did when he was his first MVP trophy

[Bigsmoke]

Why does people keep bringing up Stockton's steal total? Allen Iverson led the NBA in that category for like 3 years straight. SO? Hell, People hate on Chris Paul for being very active on the steals but John Stockton gets praised for being the all time leader? :confusedshrug:

[Vragrant]

While both were playing


Overrated: Karl Malone
Underrated: John Stockton


After both have retired


Overrated: John Stockton
Underrated: Karl Malone

agreed

[Luigi]

Why does people keep bringing up Stockton's steal total? Allen Iverson led the NBA in that category for like 3 years straight. SO? Hell, People hate on Chris Paul for being very active on the steals but John Stockton gets praised for being the all time leader? :confusedshrug:

I haven't seen much mention of it, but you clearly have no idea how immortal this record is. Nobody is even close.

Here's the top 10:
1. John Stockton 3265
2. Michael Jordan 2514
3. Gary Payton 2445
4. Jason Kidd 2330
5. Maurice Cheeks 2310
6. Scottie Pippen 2307
7. Julius Erving 2272
8. Clyde Drexler 2207
9. Hakeem Olajuwon 2162
10. Alvin Robertson 2112

Plot that on a graph and watch the 1 spot spike above everyone else. I mean, its Mount Everest. It's the national debt. It's immortal.

Plus, those who watched him know he was a pesky man defender to go along with the picks.

[Luigi]

While both were playing


Overrated: Karl Malone
Underrated: John Stockton


After both have retired


Overrated: John Stockton
Underrated: Karl Malone

I agree with the relationship that stands here, but you've mistaken a comparative for an objective measure.

This is true:
Malone was more appreciated while playing than he is in retirement.
Stockton was less appreciated while playing than he is in retirement.

But that does not entail anything about being over or underrated. Both could be overrated active and retired, and both could be underrated active and retired, but that appreciation relationship still holds.

[Hammertime]

I hate when people use the "it was the system" argument to put players down. Two different things bother me about this argument, so I'll address them separately.

The first is that certain systems make it easier to be successful. Karl Malone, according to this logic, only scored so many points because the Jazz ran the pick-and-roll for him all the time. I thought the point of basketball was to score points, and to find the easiest way to do it, yet people act like this is some kind of a cop-out. Like those kids who would get mad when you played Mortal Kombat because "you keep using the same move." Well, learn to f*cking counter it. Better yet, if it's such an overpowered move, why don't you use it on me? If the pick-and-roll was something that could provide heaps of easy buckets for a PF, why would the other teams not use it? Why hasn't anyone else scored 38,000 points just doing pick-and-roll? Why didn't the Suns just have KJ run the pick-and-roll for Barkley all day long? Or is it maybe that despite its simplicity, pick-and-roll requires you to be a great player to really utilize it?

The other claim is that certain players are only thought of as great because of the system. This is stupid, because all great players had their teams set up a system around them. What great player was constantly forced to play in systems that forced him to play to his weaknesses? What organization would be that stupid? All great players are a product of the system. If they'd played in bad systems, we'd probably only know them as good players. If MJ played in a system where he was asked to be a spot-up three-point shooter, would he still have been the player he was? If Larry Bird played in a system where a PG completely and utterly dominated the ball, would he be anything more than a Dirk Nowitzki? At the end of the day, your goal is to set up a system around the players you have to maximize the number of wins. And boy, did those Jazz teams win. During the 16 years Malone and Stockton were both starters, the Jazz won 850 and lost 430 games. That's a .664 record over that time, or 54 wins per season. During a 5 year stretch in the mid-90s, the Jazz put up a .735 winning percentage, or just over 60 wins a season. Yeah, you could put together a system that will get numbers for a couple of players, but can you also make it get you 60 wins a season?

[Dontstop]

3 Years averaging 17pts 14 assists 3steals

How can he be overrated?

Also 15,806 Career Assists

Closest one to his record:
Jason Kidd 10,864

Steals: 3,265

As for Karl:

Career Average of 25ppg
2nd all time in scoring.
MVP

Neither are overrated, they both just thrived off eachother.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0903/this.day.sports.history.march27/images/stockton-malone.jpg

[kunk75]

i love timmy but don't think he's top 5 at either position.


Malone has a great case for best PF ever.
If you consider Duncan a PF, he is #1 by default, but he is a C to me (and not a top5 ever center at that.).
At PF the competion for all time best for Malone is basically Sir Charles and that's it.

At PG, Magic is considered #1 no contest,
#2 is between Stockton and the big O..

[dutchguy]

Why does people keep bringing up Stockton's steal total? Allen Iverson led the NBA in that category for like 3 years straight. SO? Hell, People hate on Chris Paul for being very active on the steals but John Stockton gets praised for being the all time leader? :confusedshrug:

like luigi said, Stockton did a bit more than AI. Big difference also was that Stockton played real defense AND got steals. CP roams around and waits for the steal, but his man2man D is not like stockton's

[Fatal9]

Stockton and Malone didn't use the pick and roll nearly as much in the late 80s, and that's around when their best statistical seasons happened. To call them a product of a system is a joke. Both worked around the other guy's game and I don't know why they should be penalized for that. It's the same thing you hear with Nash...he was just a product of the system....the system isn't there if the player isn't there. Malone has kind of become underrated on this board (thanks to kblaze), and I always go back and forth between him and Barkley on who's better. On most days I'd say Malone but some playoff losses really make me reconsider, especially when Barkley was a beast in clutch situations in '93 (series winner on D-Rob, huge performances in game 7 and pivotal games).

Stockton is maybe the best decision making PG ever. Someone calling Tiny Archibald better is kind of disturbing. Not a spectacular man to man defender in my mind but he could wreak havoc on teams with his quick hands, make anyone think twice about dribbling in his vicinity and cause just enough deflections over the course of a game to slightly tighten up the offense of the other team. I'd take Magic, Oscar, Isiah, Nash and maybe Payton before him though.

I can see how they can be overrated to some. many first round losses, getting swept by a lower seed, tons of fails in key moments/games by BOTH (not just Malone, Stockton built a brick house in a lot of big games too). They underachieved almost every year since '88. They were expected to win the West as early as '89 but it never happened till '97.

[LBJ_MVP09]

Your thread is simply proof that using ring count to determine who's the better player is ridiculous. The only time rings should be looked at is when everything else is basically equal.

[Jasper]

They both are considered top 20 players of all time. And probably would be ranked higher if they could have won something.
They both played together in their prime and couldnt win ONE measly Championship. Yes their was Scottie & Jordan but they couldn't steal one series from them? And lets not blame Jordan because its not like Jazz were constantly coming out the West. If you grab any small & big from the top 20 let them play in their prime they would easily be a Dynasty.
Which leaves me to believe one or possibly both were overrated.
Yes Stockton has crazy assist,steals and Malone Points, Boards
But we all know stats can always be very misleading

I wasn't going to read through ton's of posts(50) analyzing the piss out of which player complimented the other , or made the other, or who was better compared to other PF's and PG's.
Neither were OVERRATED.... and the only reason they did not win a championship was that Utah relied heavily on them for almost everything.
If they had better role players they would of won a championship.

[magnax1]

Neither are over rated, but Malone gained a lot more from Stockton then the other way around. Especially early in Malone's career where he basically got 70% of his points off of easy dump offs and fast break, much of which he wouldn't have gotten without Stockton. This is coming from a guy who's watched a HUGE amount of Stockton and Malone.

[Fatal9]

Neither are over rated, but Malone gained a lot more from Stockton then the other way around. Especially early in Malone's career where he basically got 70% of his points off of easy dump offs and fast break, much of which he wouldn't have gotten without Stockton. This is coming from a guy who's watched a HUGE amount of Stockton and Malone.
uh, no. Malone had a very solid midrange/post game from around his second year onward. most his points came from turn arounds and moves in the posts...but yes, he did used to finish more on the break and in the half court back then. the perception that Malone was not a good passer (not as willing but still had great passing ability) and post player in late 80s is false.

[magnax1]

uh, no. Malone had a very solid midrange/post game from around his second year onward. most his points came from turn arounds and moves in the posts...but yes, he did used to finish more on the break and in the half court back then. the perception that Malone was not a good passer (not as willing but still had great passing ability) and post player in late 80s is false.
Yes, he was a capable passer, not near the same passer he was late 90's early 00's. (where he was an amazing passer) He didn't really have a good mid range game until 93, or that great of a post game until 93 either (they kind of went hand in hand since most of his post up plays were at the top of the key)
But up until around 93 he wasn't a self sustained 30 ppg, he needed stockton to be that type of player. Another huge jump for him was his ability to keep hold of the ball. He was absolutely atrocious up until the mid 90's with turnovers. Partially because he was trying to catch more passes, instead of starting out with the ball, but also because he just didn't keep the ball when he had it.

[D.J.]

Neither are overrated. They both had amazing primes, almost freakish longevity, and their chemistry was off the charts. They may not have won a title and their supporting cast wasn't always the best, but every year the Jazz were at least somewhat of a threat. They would probably have 2 rings if it weren't for Jordan.

And for the record, you can make a case for putting Payton over Stockton.

[Shep]

Don't forget you're a homosexual.
i'd double check that with your mom if i was you

[plowking]

i'd double check that with your mom if i was you

I asked and she confirmed it was you giving a bj to Ricky Martin out back of Wall Mart.

[nbastatus]

What in the hell are better "pg stats"? Payton had better stats.
Stockton had more steals? That's awesome and all, though Payton was twice the defender, hell even more.

Isiah doesn't have a case in stats? 21ppg, 14apg, 5rpg along with 2 steals is better than anything Stockton could dream of doing. And his career averages of 19 and 9 are better than Stockton's.
Also Gary's 24/9/7/2 seasons is better than Stockton has ever done.
Both are more accomplished as well.
:applause:

[Myth]

I think neither are overrated. Malone is viewed by most as #2 PF, and Stockton as #2-3 PG (#1 as far as being a pure PG, but obviously not "a better player" than Magic). Though, while they were playing I felt Stockton was underrated due to Malone getting more credit than Stockton (for the most part).

[Shep]

I asked and she confirmed it was you giving a bj to Ricky Martin out back of Wall Mart.
she must have got a concussion from the ass kicking i gave her

[iamgine]

I think neither are overrated. Malone is viewed by most as #2 PF, and Stockton as #2-3 PG (#1 as far as being a pure PG, but obviously not "a better player" than Magic). Though, while they were playing I felt Stockton was underrated due to Malone getting more credit than Stockton (for the most part).

That's what boggles the mind. How can #2 PF and #2 PG playing together for at least 10 seasons in their prime not win any title?

We know they had a much better than average coach in Jerry Sloan. Were their supporting casts that bad? If I remember correctly, their supporting casts were solid throughout. No Smush Parker or Jason Collins.

[CeoTypeDoe619]

That's what boggles the mind. How can #2 PF and #2 PG playing together for at least 10 seasons in their prime not win any title?

We know they had a much better than average coach in Jerry Sloan. Were their supporting casts that bad? If I remember correctly, their supporting casts were solid throughout. No Smush Parker or Jason Collins.
Forget win a ring they had trouble coming out the West. And they still had jeff Hornacek who was a great shooter and scorer. One of those guy is VERY OVERRATED! but im not pointing fingers

[DeAndre Gordon]

One of those guy is VERY OVERRATED! but im not pointing fingers

lol what a cop out.

so you are sure one of those guys is definitely overrated, but you don't know who or can't explain why?

nobody calls malone an undisputed GOAT power forward and nobody has stockton as GOAt point guard. they're both debated as being in the 2-5 range and you think just because they made "only" two finals playing with jeff hornaceck, greg ostertag, bryon russell and antoine carr that it means they HAVE to be overrated?

you're trying too hard man. let it go. find something more worthwhile to worry over.

[CeoTypeDoe619]

lol what a cop out.

so you are sure one of those guys is definitely overrated, but you don't know who or can't explain why?

nobody calls malone an undisputed GOAT power forward and nobody has stockton as GOAt point guard. they're both debated as being in the 2-5 range and you think just because they made "only" two finals playing with jeff hornaceck, greg ostertag, bryon russell and antoine carr that it means they HAVE to be overrated?

you're trying too hard man. let it go. find something more worthwhile to worry over.
First i like the upgrade on ya avy
2nd Malone is really the GOAT PF because Duncan is truly a center
Some people even consider stockton a better pg then magic
not a better player but a better pg
and with all that greatness all you can do is lose in the finals twice?
OVERRATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I never watched the scrubs play so im not going to call em overrated but one of them has to be to make any sense.
COME ON SCRUB!

[iamgine]

lol what a cop out.

so you are sure one of those guys is definitely overrated, but you don't know who or can't explain why?

nobody calls malone an undisputed GOAT power forward and nobody has stockton as GOAt point guard. they're both debated as being in the 2-5 range and you think just because they made "only" two finals playing with jeff hornaceck, greg ostertag, bryon russell and antoine carr that it means they HAVE to be overrated?

you're trying too hard man. let it go. find something more worthwhile to worry over.
Yeah they don't have to be overrated. There can be other factors like lack of leadership in the team, lack of chemistry, lack of closer or maybe the Jazz simply didn't try hard enough.

It just seemed they had it all going for them and still couldn't achieve the ultimate goal.

[DeAndre Gordon]

Yeah they don't have to be overrated. There can be other factors like lack of leadership in the team, lack of chemistry, lack of closer or maybe the Jazz simply didn't try hard enough.

It just seemed they had it all going for them and still couldn't achieve the ultimate goal.


shit happens.

a lot of people argue Randy Moss is the greatest WR to ever play, or at the very least is second behind Jerry Rice. A lot of people say Tom Brady is the greatest QB, or if not at least in the top 3.

those two played an undefeated season together then lost to the Giants in the Superbowl where Moss caught I believe ONE pass. :confusedshrug:


basketball is often about matchups. and no matter who you consider the "GOAT", the margin between him and the next guy is not that great. and sometimes the ball just takes a bounce either in your favor or not in your favor.


i just think people who try to rank players based on accomplishments on paper are ignorant and wasting their time. if you watched both stockton and isiah play, if you saw both malone and barkley play, then just decide which one looked like a better bball player to you. don't use circumstances that are beyond any one player's control or team-based achievements as the measuring stick. that's lazy and stupid. a 4 year old could do that.

[CeoTypeDoe619]

shit happens.

a lot of people argue Randy Moss is the greatest WR to ever play, or at the very least is second behind Jerry Rice. A lot of people say Tom Brady is the greatest QB, or if not at least in the top 3.

those two played an undefeated season together then lost to the Giants in the Superbowl where Moss caught I believe ONE pass. :confusedshrug:


basketball is often about matchups. and no matter who you consider the "GOAT", the margin between him and the next guy is not that great. and sometimes the ball just takes a bounce either in your favor or not in your favor.


i just think people who try to rank players based on accomplishments on paper are ignorant and wasting their time. if you watched both stockton and isiah play, if you saw both malone and barkley play, then just decide which one looked like a better bball player to you. don't use circumstances that are beyond any one player's control or team-based achievements as the measuring stick. that's lazy and stupid. a 4 year old could do that.

Lmao man you must be real young or just flat out stupid. Were talking about a game where 5 people play defense and offense. Football theres about 30 people who play offense and defense. So even if you have 2 great players what does that mean?
And Lmao NOBODY considers Tom Brady the Goat @ Quarterback :oldlol: :oldlol: He's not even top 3 in his era. Lmao. Manning, Farve, Brees.

And 1 game elimination = Best out of 7 game series :confusedshrug:
Come on brah that was literally one of the worst comparisons i have seen on ish

[Lebron23]

That's what boggles the mind. How can #2 PF and #2 PG playing together for at least 10 seasons in their prime not win any title?

We know they had a much better than average coach in Jerry Sloan. Were their supporting casts that bad? If I remember correctly, their supporting casts were solid throughout. No Smush Parker or Jason Collins.


Great players always find a way to win in the playoffs. That's what separates the good NBA players to the Legendary NBA players.