Bullying someone to death is not a crime....

[2LeTTeRS]

[quote]Narey, Longe, Mullins and Velazquez were identified in Internet postings soon after Prince

[GOBB]

How is it not a crime given the constant bullying at school, outside of school and on the dead girls memorial page on facebook where the bullies continued? Get real. A teenager being fragile? Thats totally uncommon. :rolleyes:

What do you mean they have to blame someone? She hung herself after these bullies followed her home, continued thier taunts and hit her in the head with a red bull can. She was physically abused at the library where falculty did nothing and lied saying they knew nothing about it. When in truth they did. This wasnt bullying for a day, ongoing period where no one helps and everyone laughs at you.

Someone is to blame.

[phoenix18]

I do not agree with the OP, bullying someone to death should be a crime that comes with some serious jail time.

[2LeTTeRS]

How is it not a crime given the constant bullying at school, outside of school and on the dead girls memorial page on facebook where the bullies continued? Get real. A teenager being fragile? Thats totally uncommon. :rolleyes:

What do you mean they have to blame someone? She hung herself after these bullies followed her home, continued thier taunts and hit her in the head with a red bull can. She was physically abused at the library where falculty did nothing and lied saying they knew nothing about it. When in truth they did. This wasnt bullying for a day, ongoing period where no one helps and everyone laughs at you.

Someone is to blame.

Yes someone is to blame, the girl who hung herself. She killed herself. Sucks that her last days were hard, but I don't think these kids who bullied her should have trumped up charges and be made to seem like monsters just because she couldn't deal.

[phoenix18]

Yes someone is to blame, the girl who hung herself. She killed herself. Sucks that her last days were hard, but I don't think these kids who bullied her should have trumped up charges and be made to seem like monsters just because she couldn't deal.

Man, come on. This is a cold, premeditated crime we are talking about here. These kids purposely made her life a living hell in and out of school in a ruthless manner. They're criminals.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The verbal taunting makes them a bunch of assholes but if it's in a public place doesn't break the law as far as I know. But the physical abuse, throwing the can at her, that is illegal. They did not actually kill her, so should not face any kind of major, multi-year sentencing, but they should be punished for whatever physical abuse they hit her with and on a side note, to me it would be just if in their town everyone was let to know who they are and what they did to this poor girl.

No, physical bullying is not legal. Wherever did you get that idea?

[2LeTTeRS]

No, physical bullying is not legal. Wherever did you get that idea?

Who said I believed that? I have no problem with hitting the person who threw a can at her with assault, but these kids are being charged with "civil rights violations resulting in bodily injury." To me that charge is bullshit. There should be nothing making the punishment more severe based on the recipient harming themselves.

[BRabbiT]

i don't think the statutory rape charges should be ignored. this wasn't just bullying. she was 15. they were 17 & 18. this is a little different than teasing.


http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/news/city_desk_wired/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/phoebe-prince.jpg

[3ptShooter]

Yes someone is to blame, the girl who hung herself. She killed herself. Sucks that her last days were hard, but I don't think these kids who bullied her should have trumped up charges and be made to seem like monsters just because she couldn't deal.

Empathy
Something far too many kids lack these days, and a critical trait that determines what type of person you'll be.

These kids have none, and it appears you don't either.

And anyone that would taunt someone after they die on their memorial facebook page is a monster. They probably had to "trump up" the charges a bit because the law hasn't fully caught up with this type of brutality. Good for them.

[BigTicket]

Or at least it shouldn't be. Just because a person was so fragile that they decided they couldn't take the pain and offed themselves, doesn't mean we have to have somebody to blame.

Bullying is just what we call harassment when its between kids, and last I checked harassment is against the law.

As it happens I don't think they should be blamed for her death, since as you point out she did take her own life. But what they did to her before that is still a crime, and its just a damn shame that it took her death for the authorities to finally get involved.

[2LeTTeRS]

And anyone that would taunt someone after they die on their memorial facebook page is a monster. They probably had to "trump up" the charges a bit because the law hasn't fully caught up with this type of brutality. Good for them.

Wasn't aware of this, and yes that was a stupid thing that no decent person would do. Still doesn't change my stance, I just don't like the idea of charging people with harsher crimes because the recipient chose to kill themselves.


Just because the murder was mental doesn't mean it was any less different than a physical murder.

You believe this is mental murder? Really?

[Andrei89]

Or at least it shouldn't be. Just because a person was so fragile that they decided they couldn't take the pain and offed themselves, doesn't mean we have to have somebody to blame.

After this i have decided to ignore the rest of your posts in this thread

i wonder why though:confusedshrug:

[dkmwise]

I don't necesarily think these kids should be charged for her murder, but there actions whether this girl killed herself or not should not be acceptable and they should be punished.

[HylianNightmare]

yes it is, bullies can really get into your head

[rufuspaul]

Wasn't this girl an exchange student? Can you imagine being in a foreign country at 15 and being attacked, harassed and abused on a daily basis? It wouldn't take long to start feeling like there is no way out.

The parents of these teens should be exposed too.

[Jailblazers7]

The excuse that its her fault because she couldn't deal with her life is outrageous. She wasn't leading a normal life because those kids would not allow her to.

Try imagining kids following you home from school, throwing things at you, and then joking about your death afterwards. Try thinking about that seriously and how you would feel if your life was like that. And if rufus is right and shes an exchange student that is even worse.

Of course these kids are to blame.

[bada bing]

Osama bin Laden never committed an act of terrorism himself. He never went out there and exploded a bomb or killed a soldier. He had people that did it for him. He talked people into it. So according to the what this moron of an OP suggested, should we just not charge Bin Laden because he just talked and did not personally himself do anything? He just had followers and a cult that did stuff for him...

[2LeTTeRS]

Then what is it? Suicide stemmed from idiots that shouldn't be alive.

Its a tragic situation where a girl ended her own life. I'm not trying to minimize that and I think it sucks that she killed herself. I'm not trying to come off as a dick and the loss of a beautiful young girl is horrible, but I still don't think an outcome-oriented approach where the punishment depends on 1)if the victim harms themselves and 2) how severe that harm that the victim themselves have caused; is fair.


Wasn't this girl an exchange student? Can you imagine being in a foreign country at 15 and being attacked, harassed and abused on a daily basis? It wouldn't take long to start feeling like there is no way out.

The parents of these teens should be exposed too.

From what I've read this student isn't an exchange student, her family moved from Ireland to Massachusetts.


Osama bin Laden never committed an act of terrorism himself. He never went out there and exploded a bomb or killed a soldier. He had people that did it for him. He talked people into it. So according to the what this moron of an OP suggested, should we just not charge Bin Laden because he just talked and did not personally himself do anything? He just had followers and a cult that did stuff for him...

Your comparing apples to oranges. If everybody who died at the hands of Osama bin Laden willingly killed themselves maybe you'd have a point. As it stands now your attempt fails.

[LJJ]

Don't know about murder, but they do deserve to go to a serious adult prison for a couple of years.


http://i41.tinypic.com/fxc7z6.jpg
DAT ASS

[iamgine]

Well it's not murder, but isn't harassing people somewhat frowned upon by the law.

[bada bing]

Its a tragic situation where a girl ended her own life. I'm not trying to minimize that and I think it sucks that she killed herself. I'm not trying to come off as a dick and the loss of a beautiful young girl is horrible, but I still don't think an outcome-oriented approach where the punishment depends on 1)if the victim harms themselves and 2) how severe that harm that the victim themselves have caused; is fair.



From what I've read this student isn't an exchange student, her family moved from Ireland to Massachusetts.



Your comparing apples to oranges. If everybody who died at the hands of Osama bin Laden willingly killed themselves maybe you'd have a point. As it stands now your attempt fails.

nope. Its the same thing. If you said one thing the other thing makes sense too. You are just saying if someone doesn't commit the act themselves then they should not be charged with murder. You have a flawed theory here. Nice way to put it aside when you have been clearly labeled as a stupid jackass in here.

[HylianNightmare]

girl was prolly cute too, what a waste, dumb bully *******

[2LeTTeRS]

nope. Its the same thing. If you said one thing the other thing makes sense too. You are just saying if someone doesn't commit the act themselves then they should not be charged with murder. You have a flawed theory here. Nice way to put it aside when you have been clearly labeled as a stupid jackass in here.

No again, you make no sense here at all. I never claimed that conspiring to cause death is not a crime, but that is not at all what happened here. You are comparing a man who created a cult that teaches violence and created plots where his followers killed people in all kinds of terroristic acts to a couple of teenagers who harrassed a girl, and that girl then chose to kill herself. The only common denominator in these 2 situations is that people died. The fact that in your mind these situations are the same shows that your the real jackass.

Quick question - if this girl had not killed herself would you care about the kids that bullied her? Because it seems to me your using the same kind of outcome-oriented analysis that I've been speaking against all along.

[boozehound]

Your comparing apples to oranges. If everybody who died at the hands of Osama bin Laden willingly killed themselves maybe you'd have a point. As it stands now your attempt fails.
uh, no one died at his hands. That was the cited poster's point. All the acts of terrorism were committed by others. So, he is not guilty of any of them?

Clearly this young girl was driven to take her life due to the actions of these other children, and they should be held accountable for that. Probably not manslaughter charges, but very serious harassment.

[2LeTTeRS]

uh, no one died at his hands. That was the cited poster's point. All the acts of terrorism were committed by others. So, he is not guilty of any of them?

Clearly this young girl was driven to take her life due to the actions of these other children, and they should be held accountable for that. Probably not manslaughter charges, but very serious harassment.

When did I say that a person dying at your hands is a key component of murder or even manslaughter? Trust me I'm in law school and have worked in the office of a criminal defense attorney, I know that its not. But the actions of the accused do have to be what actually caused the death (i.e. Osama bin Laden creating a plot putting in motion the acts of 9/11 which caused the planes to crash into the World Trade Center), and here thats not the case.

The girl caused her own death by hanging herself.

[3ptShooter]

Just saw a special on TV where a woman struck up a friendship with a guy over the internet. She went on to (while sleeping with him), drop subtle and not so subtle hints about how horrible her husband was (not true). I won't get into all the details, but in the end the guy shot and killed the husband.

Not the perfect analogy, but it's a similiar principle.

1. You don't have to physically be involved in the crime to be responsible in some way
2. The severity of the outcome will reflect how you're punished

I don't think charging them with murder needs to happen. They can call it whatever fits, but I'd want to see a HARSH punishment.

[Dasher]

A lot of posters in this thread were bullied... The world is better without a person who could not deal with a little bullying. When something similar happened at my high school, I shed no tears. It was just one less weak person in the world breathing up my valuable air.

[pete's montreux]

A lot of posters in this thread were bullied... The world is better without a person who could not deal with a little bullying. When something similar happened at my high school, I shed no tears. It was just one less weak person in the world breathing up my valuable air.

True. Everyone's been bullied at one time or another. It's your choice whether you let it be or do something about it. I would do something about it.

[3ptShooter]

True. Everyone's been bullied at one time or another. It's your choice whether you let it be or do something about it. I would do something about it.

Yeah - hopefully you never have a daughter that, in a foreign country and atmosphere, gets this treatment.

[Hawker]

A lot of posters in this thread were bullied... The world is better without a person who could not deal with a little bullying. When something similar happened at my high school, I shed no tears. It was just one less weak person in the world breathing up my valuable air.

I was bullied a bit in school due to my size but sometimes people just aren't strong enough to deal with it. I was. I wanted to beat the shit out of this one dude back when I was freshman but I never did. Now I'm making bank outta my ass and he isnt doing shit. That's my way of "doing something about it."

Also, bullying also reveals who your true friends are. Took my dumbass a few years to realize this but I finally did. Only one dude really stood up for me back when I was a freshman and now I'm best friends with the dude.

[GOBB]

Who in this thread was bullied unrelentlessly on a daily basis? Otherwise you really cant relate to this story at all. She was constantly harrassed at school, after school, on various internet sites, thru cell phone texts. School officials were notified they knew and yet nothing stopped the harrassment each and every day. Who here has endured that? Speak up and share your story. I'd love to hear it.

[vapid]

Who in this thread was bullied unrelentlessly on a daily basis? Otherwise you really cant relate to this story at all. She was constantly harrassed at school, after school, on various internet sites, thru cell phone texts. School officials were notified they knew and yet nothing stopped the harrassment each and every day. Who here has endured that? Speak up and share your story. I'd love to hear it.
starface.

[pete's montreux]

Who in this thread was bullied unrelentlessly on a daily basis? Otherwise you really cant relate to this story at all. She was constantly harrassed at school, after school, on various internet sites, thru cell phone texts. School officials were notified they knew and yet nothing stopped the harrassment each and every day. Who here has endured that? Speak up and share your story. I'd love to hear it.
Bullying isn't the same as it used to be. None of that internet/text stuff went on when I was in high school. But yeah, not really a "bully" but one kid I didn't get along with was on my shit every-day for the first semester of my freshman year. Always saying shit to me, screaming stuff about me during lunch periods, after school. It didn't bother me much until he was harassing me and my gf walking down the street. He's like right behind me and he flicked my ear, so I turned around and laid him out cold. Broke his nose and he smacked his head on the pavement.

Whatever. It was no big deal, it wasn't bullying. We just didn't like each other and I'm not much of a talker. We became pretty good friends after that. We even backed each other up a few times during future fights.

[GOBB]

Bullying isn't the same as it used to be. None of that internet/text stuff went on when I was in high school. But yeah, not really a "bully" but one kid I didn't get along with was on my shit every-day for the first semester of my freshman year. Always saying shit to me, screaming stuff about me during lunch periods, after school. It didn't bother me much until he was harassing me and my gf walking down the street. He's like right behind me and he flicked my ear, so I turned around and laid him out cold. Broke his nose and he smacked his head on the pavement.

Whatever. It was no big deal, it wasn't bullying. We just didn't like each other and I'm not much of a talker. We became pretty good friends after that. We even backed each other up a few times during future fights.

:roll:

[Hawker]

Who in this thread was bullied unrelentlessly on a daily basis? Otherwise you really cant relate to this story at all. She was constantly harrassed at school, after school, on various internet sites, thru cell phone texts. School officials were notified they knew and yet nothing stopped the harrassment each and every day. Who here has endured that? Speak up and share your story. I'd love to hear it.

You used to be the ISH bully. :cry:

[pete's montreux]

That kid was just a universal instigator. He lost his two front teeth in a fight in middle school and he never got them replaced. I saw him a few years ago [2006 maybe] and he still hadn't got fake teeth.

[2LeTTeRS]

Who in this thread was bullied unrelentlessly on a daily basis? Otherwise you really cant relate to this story at all. She was constantly harrassed at school, after school, on various internet sites, thru cell phone texts. School officials were notified they knew and yet nothing stopped the harrassment each and every day. Who here has endured that? Speak up and share your story. I'd love to hear it.

I was. This kid who was 2 years older than the rest of the class but still in the 7th grade decided I'd be the best candidate to bully because we were the only 2 black boys in the class. The teacher had seen him ****ing with me all year, but did not really do anything, so on the last day of school I stabbed him with a pencil. I expected him to hit me back or something but he just got the piece of lead out of his arm and told the teacher. Luckily she didn't do anything about it but tell him to get a kleenex for the blood and then sit down.

[Bean]

pete's montruex's a badass.

[KeylessEntry]

I dont think I would charge the harassers with murder, but they definitely deserve some kind of punishment. Maybe manslaughter or something like that. I would clean house on school officials too. Since they didnt report the harassment, or do anything about it, they should also be held liable. In some ways I think the school officials are more at fault than the girls who did the harassment in the first place, as hey had the power to stop the harassment at any time and chose to ignore it.

[Phantom_Blue]

so on the last day of school I stabbed him with a pencil. Luckily she didn't do anything about it but tell him to get a kleenex for the blood and then sit down.

Just...wow... :lol

[bada bing]

I was. This kid who was 2 years older than the rest of the class but still in the 7th grade decided I'd be the best candidate to bully because we were the only 2 black boys in the class. The teacher had seen him ****ing with me all year, but did not really do anything, so on the last day of school I stabbed him with a pencil. I expected him to hit me back or something but he just got the piece of lead out of his arm and told the teacher. Luckily she didn't do anything about it but tell him to get a kleenex for the blood and then sit down.

bull ****ing shit. you stabbed a dude with a pencil and the teacher didn't do anything? Was this in the hood?

[Phantom_Blue]

bull ****ing shit. you stabbed a dude with a pencil and the teacher didn't do anything? Was this in the hood?

Not only that, but the fact that there was no retaliation from the kid or his family. He just sat back down and all was right with the world. :roll:

Quickly learning who the fools are on ISH.

[phoenix18]

bull ****ing shit. you stabbed a dude with a pencil and the teacher didn't do anything? Was this in the hood?
I got stabbed with a compass in geometry class. It was an "accident" though. Well, it was more of a slice.

[rufuspaul]

That kid was just a universal instigator. He lost his two front teeth in a fight in middle school and he never got them replaced. I saw him a few years ago [2006 maybe] and he still hadn't got fake teeth.

Well hell that describes half the white population down here.

[GOBB]

Well hell that describes half the white population down here.

Why dont you sell teeth on the black market? Change the look of the population. :lol

[rufuspaul]

Why dont you sell teeth on the black market? Change the look of the population. :lol

Problem is most of them are like Pete's friend. They don't give a shit.:oldlol:

[pete's montreux]

His nickname throughout high school was 'toofless', but it wasn't making fun of him. That was just his nickname, I mean he was a cool guy.

[BMOGEFan]

This is stupid...of course there is no crime to bullying someone.

imagine if you can sue and get charged for every insult you hurl at someone.

we'd lose our freedom of speech. There's no crime of belittling someone.

on the other hand, throwing a red bull can at someone's head is a crime.

[rezznor]

Re: Bullying someone to death is not a crime....

actually...it kinda is. 14 states have anti-bullying laws.

[2LeTTeRS]

bull ****ing shit. you stabbed a dude with a pencil and the teacher didn't do anything? Was this in the hood?

No this wasn't in the hood at all, it was a primarily a white school in the south here in NC. And no he didn't do anything in response. This wasn't world war 3 though, I just poked him with a wooden pencil in the arm, and the sharpened part broke off in his arm. There was a little bleeding, but not much. Not trying to pretend like I'm some sort of Billy Bad Ass, I was scared and reacted by picking up the first weapon I could find and used it to inflict some damage.

Also may have helped that my mom was a teacher as well, and the lady who taught the class knew my mother pretty well.


Not only that, but the fact that there was no retaliation from the kid or his family. He just sat back down and all was right with the world. :roll:

Quickly learning who the fools are on ISH.

I have no reason to make up stories on this site. The kid got poked in the arm with the pencil, told the teacher, and then just tended to his arm. He didn't say another word to me that day, and we didn't have any other classes together after that.

[pete's montreux]

A kid I knew got stabbed in the knee with a pen as a freshman. I don't remember who stabbed him but I know she stabbed him pretty hard and the pen got at least an inch into his flesh.

[Poodle]

i just read this on cnn but what is up with the statutory rape charges? that came out of nowhere when i thought this was mostly about bullying.

i think these kids should be humiliated, and possibly charged with misdemeanors at the least. i'd really love to know how they came up with statutory rape charges...i guess she was a ho? thats BS if those guys are being charged for having consensual sex with her, and it lines up with a lot of the other girls hating her so much if she got around. girl groups hate ho's.

statutory rape just seems like a ridiculous charge when they're all in high school, almost like they're just throwing the book at them.

[gts]

replace the word bullying with stalking/harassment which is illegal.. if this was an adult or one or two adults doing this to another adult it would be considered stalking or harrasment but because it's kids we use the word bullying it's looked at in a different light by some... fact is there are people in jail now for this exact same thing done as an adult

following people to their homes, around a public place and throwing things at them is a crime... no matter the persons age

pretend this was a bunch of middle aged adults and a senior citizen what's your view now?

[rufuspaul]

A kid I knew got stabbed in the knee with a pen as a freshman. I don't remember who stabbed him but I know she stabbed him pretty hard and the pen got at least an inch into his flesh.

B*tches be mean up there.

[kentatm]

How is it not a crime given the constant bullying at school, outside of school and on the dead girls memorial page on facebook where the bullies continued? Get real. A teenager being fragile? Thats totally uncommon. :rolleyes:

What do you mean they have to blame someone? She hung herself after these bullies followed her home, continued thier taunts and hit her in the head with a red bull can. She was physically abused at the library where falculty did nothing and lied saying they knew nothing about it. When in truth they did. This wasnt bullying for a day, ongoing period where no one helps and everyone laughs at you.

Someone is to blame.

exactly.

This was not a minor incident that some weak person folded over. It was a drawn out campaign of mental assault.

[rufuspaul]

exactly.

This was not a minor incident that some weak person folded over. It was a drawn out campaign of mental assault.

Physical assault as well.

[2LeTTeRS]

replace the word bullying with stalking/harassment which is illegal.. if this was an adult or one or two adults doing this to another adult it would be considered stalking or harrasment but because it's kids we use the word bullying it's looked at in a different light by some... fact is there are people in jail now for this exact same thing done as an adult

following people to their homes, around a public place and throwing things at them is a crime... no matter the persons age

pretend this was a bunch of middle aged adults and a senior citizen what's your view now?

My view doesn't change, I say if you want to charge the person who struck her with assault then fine. I'm also ok with charging the kids with stalking or harassment if they can produce enough evidence to support those charges. But I still don't believe in elevating the charge due to the fact that the recipient decided to kill herself, and I don't see my mind changing.

[gts]

My view doesn't change, I say if you want to charge the person who struck her with assault then fine. I'm also ok with charging the kids with stalking or harassment if they can produce enough evidence to support those charges. But I still don't believe in elevating the charge due to the fact that the recipient decided to kill herself, and I don't see my mind changing.
what charges were elevated? they are not be charged with murder...lol or even manslaughter.. the suicide only brought it to light..

just from reading the OP and the article you posted seems like the charges are right along with your standard harrasment charges.. you have to remember this was not a one time incident it was a prolonged campaign (4 months) against a person by a group of people that went way overboard... this isn't a some school yard tiff "i'll be waiting at the bus stop for you after school" type thing that blows over by the next morning

[2LeTTeRS]

what charges were elevated? they are not be charged with murder...lol or even manslaughter.. the suicide only brought it to light..

just from reading the OP and the article you posted seems like the charges are right along with your standard harrasment charges.. you have to remember this was not a one time incident it was a prolonged campaign (4 months) against a person by a group of people that went way overboard... this isn't a some school yard tiff "i'll be waiting at the bus stop for you after school" type thing that blows over by the next morning


The murder/manslaughter point was something that got started after gencbiba claimed the kids who harassed her are guilty of "mental murder." The actual charge against the kids is "civil rights violations resulting in bodily injury." While thats not nowhere near as bad as hitting these kids with manslaughter, I still think its unfair that what would normally be simple harassment becomes a different charge because the victim kills themselves.

[BMOGEFan]

actually...it kinda is. 14 states have anti-bullying laws.

certainly not in a sane state like California.

Imagine if bullying was a law. you know how many stupid claims there would be.

Cutting in line would be considered bullying to an extent.

[jbot]

i just can't believe it went that far w/o someone stepping in. teachers? parents? other students? what a waste for a young kid to commit suicide over getting bullied.

[gts]

certainly not in a sane state like California.

Imagine if bullying was a law. you know how many stupid claims there would be.

Cutting in line would be considered bullying to an extent.

just found this linked from another article..
http://www.bullypolice.org

seems california does since 2003, and it's 41 states have anti bullying laws of some form not 14 like the post you quoted

[3ptShooter]

certainly not in a sane state like California.

Imagine if bullying was a law. you know how many stupid claims there would be.

Cutting in line would be considered bullying to an extent.

Stike two and three. California is sane in this regard:http://www.stopbullyingnow.hrsa.gov/adults/state-laws.aspx

But don't worry - I'm sure the states do a crappy job (like they did in the OP case) in enforcing the laws. You're safe for now.

And the "cutting in line" example is a foolish one.

[Undisputed]

I never feel sorry for anyone who kills themselves over harassment or something like a break-up. If the person wanted to die, I'm not going to pity them for their choice or blame it on anyone who influenced it by words and bullying. Did the other girls break the law? Of course. Should they be blamed for her death? Definitely not.

This girl could've ended it all by standing up for herself. Those bitches come around talking shit or whatever, just unleash on them with a baseball bat or something one day. That'd stop their shit real quick. I'm sure she could've found a way out of it that didn't involve taking her own life and I'm not saying that physically harming the bullies is the only way either.

Call me anything you want if you don't agree with my opinion, it's just the way I feel about this.

[bada bing]

I never feel sorry for anyone who kills themselves over harassment or something like a break-up. If the person wanted to die, I'm not going to pity them for their choice or blame it on anyone who influenced it by words and bullying. Did the other girls break the law? Of course. Should they be blamed for her death? Definitely not.

This girl could've ended it all by standing up for herself. Those bitches come around talking shit or whatever, just unleash on them with a baseball bat or something one day. That'd stop their shit real quick. I'm sure she could've found a way out of it that didn't involve taking her own life and I'm not saying that physically harming the bullies is the only way either.

Call me anything you want if you don't agree with my opinion, it's just the way I feel about this.

do you ****ing understand that the girl was young? still a kid? is that going through your ****ing head or are you just a heartless brain dead moron who isn't able to comprehend that? People that commit suicide do so cuz of severe mental breakdown. Very few people commit suicide jsut for the heck of it. And out of those, most that do it, do it to get attention and their last thoughts while doing it is, "oh shit..i ****ed up now how do i get out of here".

that girl must have been suffering from severe mental depression. And this is not your everyday school bullying. These kids went overboard on a young girl that just came from a different country. 4 months of constant bullying with satuatory rape, physical abuse and mental torture is a very big deal.

I can't believe we are arguing about this crap here....

[bdreason]

Hopefully karma catches up to the harrassers, and they get raped or beaten in the future.

Legally you can't do much. Mabye sue the school for not reporting the harrassment.

[bada bing]

Hopefully karma catches up to the harrassers, and they get raped or beaten in the future.

Legally you can't do much. Mabye sue the school for not reporting the harrassment.

and fire the principal, and the teachers involved. If they knew about this and did not do anything they are responsible. I hope they never get a job in a school ever again.

[Undisputed]

do you ****ing understand that the girl was young? still a kid? is that going through your ****ing head or are you just a heartless brain dead moron who isn't able to comprehend that? People that commit suicide do so cuz of severe mental breakdown. Very few people commit suicide jsut for the heck of it. And out of those, most that do it, do it to get attention and their last thoughts while doing it is, "oh shit..i ****ed up now how do i get out of here".

Why take things so personal? You act like I called your mother out for the slut that she is...

She was 15 years old, that's old enough to help yourself. If you're weak enough to take your own life over a situation that can be changed, I'm just saying they won't get my pity. I'll feel sorry for people who get murdered.


that girl must have been suffering from severe mental depression. And this is not your everyday school bullying. These kids went overboard on a young girl that just came from a different country. 4 months of constant bullying with satuatory rape, physical abuse and mental torture is a very big deal.

I can't believe we are arguing about this crap here....
What the bullies did was a big deal and wrong. I just don't find them responsible for her death. There was no need for her to kill herself. There were other ways to deal with the situation and she chose to committ suicide. I'm not going to feel sorry for someone who takes their own life over bullying, regardless of how severe it was. If you're weak enough to allow people to ruin your life and drag you down, you're probably better off dead.

I know it's a cold way of thinking of things, but suicide is a choice. She chose to die. I have sympathy for a young girl getting bullied, but none for her death because SHE did that to herself.

[Jailblazers7]

I just find it incredible that people don't show as much distaste for these bullies as I would expect. Clinical depression is a serious medical disease and not just some weakness of their mind or will. My guess is she had an emotional imbalance to begin with and these kids just gave her the final shove she needed to kill herself.

I don't think legally they can be held responsible for this tho. I do think they should be retribution from the friends of the girl or even someone who thinks they deserve and ass whooping. Laughing and joking about her suicide after is dispicable. I think they should get a serious beating and the authorities should look the other way.

[2LeTTeRS]

True. Everyone's been bullied at one time or another. It's your choice whether you let it be or do something about it. I would do something about it.


This is stupid...of course there is no crime to bullying someone.

imagine if you can sue and get charged for every insult you hurl at someone.

we'd lose our freedom of speech. There's no crime of belittling someone.

on the other hand, throwing a red bull can at someone's head is a crime.


I never feel sorry for anyone who kills themselves over harassment or something like a break-up. If the person wanted to die, I'm not going to pity them for their choice or blame it on anyone who influenced it by words and bullying. Did the other girls break the law? Of course. Should they be blamed for her death? Definitely not.

This girl could've ended it all by standing up for herself. Those bitches come around talking shit or whatever, just unleash on them with a baseball bat or something one day. That'd stop their shit real quick. I'm sure she could've found a way out of it that didn't involve taking her own life and I'm not saying that physically harming the bullies is the only way either.

Call me anything you want if you don't agree with my opinion, it's just the way I feel about this.

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[ihatetimthomas]

I never feel sorry for anyone who kills themselves over harassment or something like a break-up. If the person wanted to die, I'm not going to pity them for their choice or blame it on anyone who influenced it by words and bullying. Did the other girls break the law? Of course. Should they be blamed for her death? Definitely not.

This girl could've ended it all by standing up for herself. Those bitches come around talking shit or whatever, just unleash on them with a baseball bat or something one day. That'd stop their shit real quick. I'm sure she could've found a way out of it that didn't involve taking her own life and I'm not saying that physically harming the bullies is the only way either.

Call me anything you want if you don't agree with my opinion, it's just the way I feel about this.

Those are a lof of "could of's." Of course she should have done things differently. Stood up for herself, gotten some help, hit them with bats,lol. But unfortunately, not all people possess it in them to do that. Especially when its you alone against a lot of people. This girl was young, 15 is young. And she was not from the United States. She had only been there since last year. You are in a different world, and a couple of groups of people that are older than you continually harass you. At that age, social acceptance is at its highest point. Wanting to fit in and just have friends comes with being a teen.

I am not going to say they should be to blame for her death, but I do disagree with how you think she "could have" handled it.

[Undisputed]

Those are a lof of "could of's." Of course she should have done things differently. Stood up for herself, gotten some help, hit them with bats,lol. But unfortunately, not all people possess it in them to do that. Especially when its you alone against a lot of people. This girl was young, 15 is young. And she was not from the United States. She had only been there since last year. You are in a different world, and a couple of groups of people that are older than you continually harass you. At that age, social acceptance is at its highest point. Wanting to fit in and just have friends comes with being a teen.

I am not going to say they should be to blame for her death, but I do disagree with how you think she "could have" handled it.

So she has it in her to kill herself but not take action against the people causing her the pain? I have no pity for this. She wanted to die, she got what she wanted. Good for her. If she had any interest in living, she would've taken action some how. 15 is young, but as I said, not too young to reach out for help or make the decision to stand up for yourself by any means necessary. You guys make a 15 year old seem like an infant.

If anyone wants to blame someone, blame her parents or those who noticed/knew about the bullying and let it continue.

Just to note again, I'm not saying the bullies are innocent. But when it comes to this girl no longer being alive, they are innocent. She "could've" handled it like most teens when they're being bullied.

[2LeTTeRS]

and fire the principal, and the teachers involved. If they knew about this and did not do anything they are responsible. I hope they never get a job in a school ever again.

Do you know how many situations occur in schools nation-wide where a child feels they are being bullied? Its a lot, and its hard to differentiate the innocent teasing that goes on daily in schools from a situation like this one where it escalated. So what do you propose? Should every staff member who should have been aware of any bullying incident be fired, or should we just fire the one's at the school were the girl killed herself? And why is it that we want to lay the blame at the feet of the staff at school, but no one wants to blame the girl's parents who were in a much better position to spot any depression issues this girl was having, but (from all I've read at least) didn't?

[JMT]

So physical assault by her is the answer to psychological assault by them? (In reference to the poster recommending she "take a bat" to the assaulters who, by all accounts, were older and far outnumbered her).

If you're condoning her taking those measures, you're admitting that what they did has gone far beyond taunts or name calling.

At least one of the defendants is legally an adult, and statutory rape is hardly a charge that just gets thrown around.

People...or animals, in this case... can be charged with anything that falls within the parameters of the legal code, and which prosecutors think they can make stick. They'll have a chance to defend themselves in court, in a setting where they get to confront their accusers without fear of recrimination.

I'm sure the dead girl would have welcomed the same opportunity.

[ihatetimthomas]

So she has it in her to kill herself but not take action against the people causing her the pain? I have no pity for this. She wanted to die, she got what she wanted. Good for her. If she had any interest in living, she would've taken action some how. 15 is young, but as I said, not too young to reach out for help or make the decision to stand up for yourself in any means necessary. You guys make a 15 year old seem like an infant.

If anyone wants to blame someone, blame her parents or those who noticed the bullying and let it continue.

Just to note again, I'm not saying the bullies are innocent. But when it comes to this girl no longer being alive, they are innocent. She "could've" handled it like most teens when they're being bullied.

I think you are being very narrow minded. Yes logically, she should have done what you said, but not everyone really has that mentality. I am sure she was experiencing severe depression, and had no self worth. Probably did not have confidence in herself that she could step up to all the bullies. Living in fear everyday, not wanting to wake up in the morning is likely what she was experiencing daily and a girl at a young teen age, that's living in hell. Yea she in the end is to blame for her own demise but try to look at it from her point of view. Yes she could have done something else, but at the time, I really doubt she would have been mentally capable of standing up

[Poodle]

So she has it in her to kill herself but not take action against the people causing her the pain? I have no pity for this. She wanted to die, she got what she wanted. Good for her. If she had any interest in living, she would've taken action some how. 15 is young, but as I said, not too young to reach out for help or make the decision to stand up for yourself by any means necessary. You guys make a 15 year old seem like an infant.

If anyone wants to blame someone, blame her parents or those who noticed/knew about the bullying and let it continue.

Just to note again, I'm not saying the bullies are innocent. But when it comes to this girl no longer being alive, they are innocent. She "could've" handled it like most teens when they're being bullied.


who do you reach out to for help? seriously we all went to high school, we've all seen this stuff happen, and its stuff students generally have to live and deal with at that age more than there really being someone out there that can/will help you. who are you going to run to? a teacher/principal who will stop it temporarily at best and only during school hours? if anything the students will hate/tease you more for reporting them or them getting in trouble. how many people do you know that told on someone and then got their ass beat afterward?

truth is tho that a lot of kids from elementary school up to high school can be assholes. high school can be a jungle sometimes for some kids. especially girl group on girl hating. teachers/principals can't police it all or know ahead of time how out of hand it might get. not saying she is right in killing herself but being a girl who just came over from another country in a new school, and being picked on that long while you're forced to interact with them almost every day, can't be an easy situation to get out of. nobody is going to make it all go away.

parents, teachers, and principal can make the situation worse if anything.

[3ptShooter]

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

LOL - yeah, that's great company to keep! :rolleyes: Glad you feel better.


Why take things so personal? You act like I called your mother out for the slut that she is...

She was 15 years old, that's old enough to help yourself. If you're weak enough to take your own life over a situation that can be changed, I'm just saying they won't get my pity. I'll feel sorry for people who get murdered.

What the bullies did was a big deal and wrong. I just don't find them responsible for her death. There was no need for her to kill herself. There were other ways to deal with the situation and she chose to committ suicide. I'm not going to feel sorry for someone who takes their own life over bullying, regardless of how severe it was. If you're weak enough to allow people to ruin your life and drag you down, you're probably better off dead.

I know it's a cold way of thinking of things, but suicide is a choice. She chose to die. I have sympathy for a young girl getting bullied, but none for her death because SHE did that to herself.

This type of post is why a thread like this is helpful. The overly simplistic "she's old enough..." way of thinking that doesn't take into account that everyone is different is saddly prevelant. As I said - empathy.

Another problem with society is we treat young teens and pre-teens as adults. They aren't. Their ability to deal with harrassment isn't the same.

Many young kids feel like outcasts going in without bullying. Imagine a young girl being singled out and torrmented day after day.

Hopefully (and I mean that) you don't have a child that ever goes through 1/10th of that. Hope none of us do.

[JMT]

who do you reach out to for help? seriously we all went to high school, we've all seen this stuff happen, and its stuff students generally have to live and deal with at that age more than there really being someone out there that can/will help you. who are you going to run to? a teacher/principal who will stop it temporarily at best and only during school hours? if anything the students will hate/tease you more for reporting them or them getting in trouble. how many people do you know that told on someone and then got their ass beat afterward?

truth is tho that a lot of kids from elementary school up to high school can be assholes. high school can be a jungle sometimes for some kids. especially girl group on girl hating. teachers/principals can't police it all or know ahead of time how out of hand it might get. not saying she is right in killing herself but being a girl who just came over from another country in a new school, and being picked on that long while you're forced to interact with them almost every day, can't be an easy situation to get out of. nobody is going to make it all go away.

I was the big guy in school. Jock, popular, BMOC. Lucky me. Nobody picked on me.

My brother, 2 years younger, was "slow". Today, I'm sure he'd have been diagnosed with some degree of autism. Fortunately, he's the hardest worker I've ever seen and has become a very successful computer programmer, a civic leader and great father.

But in school, all he was was a target. As we all know, people get taunted and bullied. It's easy when this as perceived as a single event to say "eh, get over it". But when it's endless... when you dread the one place you're forced to go...when there's a bunch of them and one of you...when you're the physically weak one...where do you turn?

Teachers? They know half the kids are just this side of animals. They don't get any protection from them. Why should you?

Administration? Running what often amounts to a small prison on $50,000 a year? Yeah, your kid's safety is top of my list.

Your peers? Just what every kid wants to do. Tell his friends that he's scared to death. Besides, what is your army of weaklings going to accomplish against bigger, stronger, more systematic foes? This isn't a freaking Disney movie where the fat kid wins the race.

We grew up in a tough area. I spent much of my youth avoiding gangs, and fights weren't hard to find. I would estimate 90% of all fights I was in revolved around defending my kid brother. I was a kid myself; I'm supposed to be making the right decisions? Meting out justice?

I have little sympathy for those that take their own lives. It seems about as cowardly as you can get. But if you're honest with yourself, and have ever been the outsider, it's not hard to understand how a girl in a new school, life and country, could be driven to unthinkable extremes. And the people who knowingly and in a pre-meditated fashion drove her there, deserve whatever the law thinks they can hang on them.

We'll see how they do when incarcerated with professional bullies.

[boozehound]

so, 2 letters. do you stand by your original statement that "bullying someone to death is not a crime"? Despite the fact that there are 41 states that do have laws explicitly making bullying a crime? Or the fact that harassment is, itself, a crime?

[bdreason]

Actually, the OP is wrong. Bullying someone to death is a crime. It isn't considered murder, but it's still a crime. In fact, bullying (mental and physical harassment) itself is a crime.

And the OP is in law school? :confusedshrug:

[Undisputed]

I think you are being very narrow minded. Yes logically, she should have done what you said, but not everyone really has that mentality. I am sure she was experiencing severe depression, and had no self worth. Probably did not have confidence in herself that she could step up to all the bullies. Living in fear everyday, not wanting to wake up in the morning is likely what she was experiencing daily and a girl at a young teen age, that's living in hell. Yea she in the end is to blame for her own demise but try to look at it from her point of view. Yes she could have done something else, but at the time, I really doubt she would have been mentally capable of standing up

I acknowledge these things; her depression, low confidence, and living in fear. Many to all teenagers experience these things in the midst of teen angst. Being a teenager at times is already a living hell, let alone people dedicating themselves to making your life worse. I get it. What I am saying seems narrow minded because I'm just putting it plain and simple about the suicide. There are no excuses for kids killing themselves over being bullied. You're telling me I should look at it from the viewpoint of being too weak to protect my life and my well being and I just can't relate.

This girls family failed her for maybe raising her too passive and she made the worst decision that you could during the situation. It ends there. Everyone gets bullied, but the dorrmats get it the worst because they're the ones who don't anything about it. Prosecuting the bullies(not saying this is what you want, just ranting), to me, would in essence be promoting teen suicides. All teens, regardless of what country they're from should be able to stand up for themselves, and if not, like I've been saying...no pity from me.

Sue me for thinking about things differently than you guys.

[Undisputed]

This type of post is why a thread like this is helpful. The overly simplistic "she's old enough..." way of thinking that doesn't take into account that everyone is different is saddly prevelant. As I said - empathy.

I exercise my right, as a person with control over my own feelings to deny empathy to a teen that comitted suicide when there were other options. She was old enough to find another way that didn't involve suicide.

[JMT]

I acknowledge these things; her depression, low confidence, and living in fear. Many to all teena experience these things in the midst of teen angst. Being a teenager at times is already a living hell, let alone people dedicating themselves to making your life worse. I get it. What I am saying seems narrow minded because I'm just putting it plain and simple about the suicide. There are no excuses for kids killing themselves over being bullied. You're telling me I should look at it from the viewpoint of being too weak to protect my life and my well being and I just can't relate.

This girls family failed her for maybe raising her too passive and she made the worst decision that you could during the situation. It ends there. Everyone gets bullied, but the dorrmats get it the worst because they're the ones who don't anything about it. Prosecuting the bullies(not saying this is what you want, just ranting), to me, would in essence be promoting teen suicides. All teens, regardless of what country they're from should be able to stand up for themselves, and if not, like I've been saying...no pity from me.

Sue me for thinking about things differently than you guys.

Prosecuting people who broke the law encourages teen suicide?

Whether she killed herself or not, they violated the law. For that, they deserve to be punished.

It's unfair and inconsistent to say the 15 year old being bullied should know better and faces the consequences of her actions, but the bullies shouldn't be held to the same standard.

[Undisputed]

Prosecuting people who broke the law encourages teen suicide?

Whether she killed herself or not, they violated the law. For that, they deserve to be punished.

I'm saying prosecution in the terms of being responsible for her death. These kids should get in the same trouble they would've gotten had the girl who killed herself exposed it. There would be people willing to help if she tried hard enough. Especially with this sexual harassment I keep hearing.

It encourages it because the person thinking about killing themselves feels hopeless on defeating their tormentors, now let's give them vengence if they committ suicide...get it?

They did violate the law, but they do not have any involvement or responsibility for her suicide.

[D.J.]

We all went to high school. We all saw someone get bullied at some point. As far as standing up to bullies or looking for some help, that's easier said than done. This girl is a foreigner, is in a completely different upbringing, and clearly had issues long before this started. There are laws against bullying. And last I checked, harassment(which is clearly the case here) is most certainly a crime.

I'm not saying to charge these kids with murder. Obviously, they intended to harass this girl but certainly didn't intend for her to kill herself. Do they deserve to be punished? Absolutely. Murder charges? No.

What I find even more disturbing is many people(and quite a few in this thread) that show no sympathy or empathy for this girl. Calling this girl "weak" shows how cold some people are. Yes, she should have gotten help, but that's easier said than done. Torturing this girl was bad enough, but bragging about it afterwards shows what kind of monsters those kids are. They deserve to be punished, but murder does not apply here.

[ihatetimthomas]

I acknowledge these things; her depression, low confidence, and living in fear. Many to all teena experience these things in the midst of teen angst. Being a teenager at times is already a living hell, let alone people dedicating themselves to making your life worse. I get it. What I am saying seems narrow minded because I'm just putting it plain and simple about the suicide. There are no excuses for kids killing themselves over being bullied. You're telling me I should look at it from the viewpoint of being too weak to protect my life and my well being and I just can't relate.

This girls family failed her for maybe raising her too passive and she made the worst decision that you could during the situation. It ends there. Everyone gets bullied, but the dorrmats get it the worst because they're the ones who don't anything about it. Prosecuting the bullies(not saying this is what you want, just ranting), to me, would in essence be promoting teen suicides. All teens, regardless of what country they're from should be able to stand up for themselves, and if not, like I've been saying...no pity from me.

Sue me for thinking about things differently than you guys.

Just having a friendly debate here, no problem here. I understand you point bc honestly, I would never be able to commit suicide regardless of how bad it gets. I was never picked on in high school or had severe depression. And yes, likely its the families problem for a lot of her issues. But its not the only factor. Could have been a traumatizing event when she was younger, could have been molested as a child or whatnot.

I guess I am just a bit sensitive to the suicide topic bc I know people who have attempted suicide, and its really hard not to sympathize or have pity for them. They are simply just not wired like you and I. They feel the only way out is to leave this earth, not step up for themselves. Your opinion is your opinion, I am not trying to condemn you for that, just trying to get you to see that there is another side to the people who are being tormented and that its not just bc they are "weak."

[Undisputed]

Just having a friendly debate here, no problem here. I understand you point bc honestly, I would never be able to commit suicide regardless of how bad it gets. I was never picked on in high school or had severe depression. And yes, likely its the families problem for a lot of her issues. But its not the only factor. Could have been a traumatizing event when she was younger, could have been molested as a child or whatnot.

I guess I am just a bit sensitive to the suicide topic bc I know people who have attempted suicide, and its really hard not to sympathize or have pity for them. They are simply just not wired like you and I. They feel the only way out is to leave this earth, not step up for themselves. Your opinion is your opinion, I am not trying to condemn you for that, just trying to get you to see that there is another side to the people who are being tormented and that its not just bc they are "weak."

Much respect. The last paragraph was just a rant really, not completely directed at you. :cheers:

[JMT]

They did violate the law, but they do not have any involvement or responsibility for her suicide.

There will be an argument made for causative effect (ie the chain of events that led to an action).

Ultimately, a jury of peers will decide. The defendants better hope they get the kids that were the bullies, not the bullied.

[Undisputed]

There will be an argument made for causative effect (ie the chain of events that led to an action).

Ultimately, a jury of peers will decide. The defendants better hope they get the kids that were the bullies, not the bullied.
QFT in bold. :oldlol:

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. If you guys read some news about this, be sure to post it.

[2LeTTeRS]

so, 2 letters. do you stand by your original statement that "bullying someone to death is not a crime"? Despite the fact that there are 41 states that do have laws explicitly making bullying a crime? Or the fact that harassment is, itself, a crime?

Yes I do stand by my original statement, and I doubt my mind changes on that point. Harassment is a crime and if the prosecutor wants to proceed on these charges I'd have no problem with it, but there is no need to create a new crime that fits the parameters of bullying.




Actually, the OP is wrong. Bullying someone to death is a crime. It isn't considered murder, but it's still a crime. In fact, bullying (mental and physical harassment) itself is a crime.

And the OP is in law school? :confusedshrug:

Newsflash - being in law school doesn't mean you sit around studying the criminal code of each and every state and knowing what is on them. And no bullying someone to death isn't a crime, the bullying itself may be but the acts that caused the death of this girl were her tying a rope around her neck and jumping.

[3ptShooter]

I exercise my right, as a person with control over my own feelings to deny empathy to a teen that comitted suicide when there were other options. She was old enough to find another way that didn't involve suicide.

I don't have any problem with you "exercising your right..." I even said that hearing from your type of point of view is helpful because it shows how saddly prevelant it is.

Clarity is valuable, and people usually make their views crystal clear...


Prosecuting the bullies(not saying this is what you want, just ranting), to me, would in essence be promoting teen suicides.

[EroticVanilla]

Yes I do stand by my original statement, and I doubt my mind changes on that point. Harassment is a crime and if the prosecutor wants to proceed on these charges I'd have no problem with it, but there is no need to create a new crime that fits the parameters of bullying
Whats the difference between harassment and bullying?

Harassment: "Harassment is any physical or verbal abuse of a person because of her race, religion, age, gender, disability or any other legally protected status."

Bullying: "Bullying is a form of abuse. It comprises repeated acts over time that involves a real or perceived imbalance of power with the more powerful individual or group abusing those who are less powerful. The power imbalance may be social power and/or physical power. The victim of bullying is sometimes referred to as a target.

Bullying consists of three basic types of abuse - emotional, verbal and physical. It typically involves subtle methods of coercion such as psychological manipulation. Bullying can be defined in many different ways. Although the UK currently has no legal definition of bullying, some US states have laws against it.

Bullying in school and the workplace is also referred to as peer abuse. Robert W. Fuller has analyzed bullying in the context of rankism.

Bullying can occur in any context in which human beings interact with each other. This includes school, church, the workplace, home and neighborhoods. It is even a common push factor in migration. Bullying can exist between social groups, social classes and even between countries (see Jingoism)."

[Rockets(T-mac)]

By the OP's logic, if someone got punched in the head and they die, but another person got the same punch but didn't, then no one is to blame, because the person was just too fragile.

[2LeTTeRS]

By the OP's logic, if someone got punched in the head and they die, but another person got the same punch but didn't, then no one is to blame, because the person was just too fragile.

No your totally twisting my statement, and not using the same type of logic at all. The chain of causation between the action that caused injury and the person dying was not interrupted in your scenario whereas it was in real life. Using your analogy, this would be like the person who got punched in the face then going home and killing themselves.

Do you really think thats enough to change the charge from assault to something more severe?

[Jello]

Or at least it shouldn't be. Just because a person was so fragile that they decided they couldn't take the pain and offed themselves, doesn't mean we have to have somebody to blame.
Are you serious? No one should be subject to this kind of pain, and if you think that nobody is to blame, the world is better off rid of you.

[gotbacon23]

Who in this thread was bullied unrelentlessly on a daily basis? Otherwise you really cant relate to this story at all. She was constantly harrassed at school, after school, on various internet sites, thru cell phone texts. School officials were notified they knew and yet nothing stopped the harrassment each and every day. Who here has endured that? Speak up and share your story. I'd love to hear it.

it was relentlessly but when i was in high school, some people would pick up lunch meat off the floor and throw it at me and tell me to eat it.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

No your totally twisting my statement, and not using the same type of logic at all. The chain of causation between the action that caused injury and the person dying was not interrupted in your scenario whereas it was in real life. Using your analogy, this would be like the person who got punched in the face then going home and killing themselves.

Do you really think thats enough to change the charge from assault to something more severe?
Maybe my example wasn't great, but you can verbally abuse someone. And it does hurt them and cause them pain, so saying that someone shouldn't be punished for abusing someone else is stupid. And if they did it to the point where the person couldn't handle it and they kill themselves, well you deserved to be punished. The bullies were part of the persons death whether they like it or not and should be punished. If you don't punish people for bulling someone to death, then why have verbal abuse laws at all.

I understand where you're coming from though. It's stupid to kill yourself over what someone said, and I wouldn't go to that level. I'm a person that would talk back when someone insults me, not just take the abuse. But not everyone is like me, and some people are more sensitive. You can't say well that's their problem, strongest survive they. You don't think they deserve to live in an environment that is inclusive or at least live in an environment where they aren't tormented? And that someone that torments them shouldn't be punished especially when it leads to their death?

[Bigsmoke]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii35/JJT2159/Bully_Scholarship_Edition-PROPER-US.jpg

[tontoz]

Or at least it shouldn't be. Just because a person was so fragile that they decided they couldn't take the pain and offed themselves, doesn't mean we have to have somebody to blame.


Yeah 15 year old girls should be much tougher and be able to handle any amount of abuse. After all the girl could have just avoided the girls by dropping out of school.

Dumb post

[iamgine]

Man this thread is exactly what gonna happen in court. :oldlol:

The lawyer trying to separate the suicide and the bully. No one else is buying it. :oldlol:

[2LeTTeRS]

Maybe my example wasn't great, but you can verbally abuse someone. And it does hurt them and cause them pain, so saying that someone shouldn't be punished for abusing someone else is stupid. And if they did it to the point where the person couldn't handle it and they kill themselves, well you deserved to be punished. The bullies were part of the persons death whether they like it or not and should be punished. If you don't punish people for bulling someone to death, then why have verbal abuse laws at all.

I understand where you're coming from though. It's stupid to kill yourself over what someone said, and I wouldn't go to that level. I'm a person that would talk back when someone insults me, not just take the abuse. But not everyone is like me, and some people are more sensitive. You can't say well that's their problem, strongest survive they. You don't think they deserve to live in an environment that is inclusive or at least live in an environment where they aren't tormented? And that someone that torments them shouldn't be punished especially when it leads to their death?

I appreciate you for actually trying to see what I was saying instead of just jumping down my throat. And no I don't think the environment the girl had around her prior to her death was acceptable, I just don't think its the place of the criminal justice system to differentiate between regular harassment and harassment that was followed by a suicide attempt.


Yeah 15 year old girls should be much tougher and be able to handle any amount of abuse. After all the girl could have just avoided the girls by dropping out of school.

Dumb post

Thats a better option than killing yourself. She also could have tried to explain the situation to her parents or the faculty at her school or responded to the bullies.

[tontoz]

I appreciate you for actually trying to see what I was saying instead of just jumping down my throat. And no I don't think the environment the girl had around her prior to her death was acceptable, I just don't think its the place of the criminal justice system to differentiate between regular harassment and harassment that was followed by a suicide attempt.



Thats a better option than killing yourself. She also could have tried to explain the situation to her parents or the faculty at her school or responded to the bullies.


It is really easy for you sitting behind your computer to say what someone else should have done. However you don't even know everything that was done to that girl and she was only 15. There is a reason kids that age are called minors and aren't allowed to drive or drink.

Obviously she shouldn't have killed herself but it is also obvious that the actions of those girls are what led to her suicide. If your actions lead to someones death of course the penalty will be more severe. Duh

As adults we can't get away with that kind of harassment. In the workplace you get fired. Outside of work you can get a restraining order on someone. There is nothing like that in high school.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I appreciate you for actually trying to see what I was saying instead of just jumping down my throat. And no I don't think the environment the girl had around her prior to her death was acceptable, I just don't think its the place of the criminal justice system to differentiate between regular harassment and harassment that was followed by a suicide attempt. I just think that if you had any significant part of the person's death, you should be punished. And since it's death we are talking about it should involve the justice system. I don't think the school system is strict enough to deal with cases like these, I don't usually hear about kids killing themselves over everyday kind of harassment, it's usually over the top and completely unacceptable. And when you abuse someone like that, you should be dealt with by the justice system.

[HisAirness3]

Bullies are a waste of life. If you don't think that's a crime or similar to a crime at all then you are dumber than a pile of hammers. I cannot stand bullies, especially when I hear stories like this....This is why I despise cocky popular girls (typically cheerleaders) who think they can do whatever the shit they want and the only treat the popular people good and they treat everybody else like shit and basically bully the outcasts. Honestly, If any of my friends or shit if anybody that I know that get harassed by a bunch of panzy ass bullies I'd call my ****ing crew up and have a few ****ing words with those panzy asses.

Bullies are usually ******* anyways. All they do is insult someone and push someone around to make themselves feel better, but when someone else does it to them they roll into their ****ing shell where they belong.

[tontoz]

I have seen kids react to bullying in different ways. I have read about suicides many times. More commonly kids drop out. Sometimes they come to school with guns and kill other kids. Anyone remember Columbine?

[HisAirness3]

I have seen kids react to bullying in different ways. I have read about suicides many times. More commonly kids drop out. Sometimes they come to school with guns and kill other kids. Anyone remember Columbine?
Exactly....Other people had to pay the price just because all the other kids were treating the 'future killers' like crap. Like said and done, bullying could affect more than the one being bullied. Why can't people...um...just leave the people that mind their own ****ing business alone? If the person that killed herself was some type of stuck up person, who was annoying, had insulted everyone herself, etc. then maybe it isn't "a crime" but she didn't, so it is.

[Phantom_Blue]

I'm not going to touch on the whole legal side of things, but I can't believe some of the responses here, saying she was weak, and she deserved to die etc.

These people either have not gone through depression, or don't understand it for whatever reason, maybe they just don't know anyone who's gone through it, not their fault I guess. It's a serious mental illness.

To be bullied is one thing, but if it helped drive you into a state of depression or you were already depressed, it's hard to escape that without sufficient help. You can't just change your whole mind state at the flip of a coin, it takes time. Now you can say "Ok, why didn't she ask for help?", but we don't know the whole story, maybe help wasn't there. Maybe people who thought they were helping, just made it worst, which is very common.

Like has been said, people also deal with depression in different ways, it depends on your personality. Some may take the anger route and end up hurting others, or you may take her route, which is hurt yourself.

[D.J.]

I breifly mentioned this in my prior post, but some people need to learn "sympathy", "empathy", and "compassion". To even hint that the poor girl is at fault is sickening.

[HisAirness3]

Let's get these girls on this MTV Show.

http://www.mmaspot.net/mmaspot/files/image/article%20images/Bully%20Beatdown.jpg

We'll get professional MMA Fighters kicking their ass.

[3ptShooter]

...Thats a better option than killing yourself. She also could have tried to explain the situation to her parents or the faculty at her school or responded to the bullies.

I saw a TV spot on this tonight, and she did tell her parents. The parents went to the school and asked for help. None was given apparently, and there is now a lawsuit against them. Let's hope a few people at least loose their jobs.




http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100330/NEWS02/703309902

Phoebe, ostracized for having a brief relationship with a popular boy, reached her breaking point and hanged herself after one particularly hellish day in January — a day that, according to officials, included being hounded with slurs and pelted with a beverage container as she walked home from school...

...School officials won’t be charged, even though authorities say they knew about the bullying and that Phoebe’s mother brought her concerns to at least two of them.

...At least four students and two faculty members intervened to try to stop it or report it to administrators, she said.

:banghead:

[2LeTTeRS]

I'm not going to touch on the whole legal side of things, but I can't believe some of the responses here, saying she was weak, and she deserved to die etc.

I apologize for my word choice by saying she was "weak," but I never said she deserved to die. I think its sad she's dead and it sucks that this situation escalated to the point that she decided to take her own life. I still won't change my stance though. People are accountable for their own choices, and faced with the stress she was going through she chose to end it.

My question basically boils down to this at its core - If you willingly take your own life then how can you say the actions of the harassers caused the bodily injury?


I saw a TV spot on this tonight, and she did tell her parents. The parents went to the school and asked for help. None was given apparently, and there is now a lawsuit against them. Let's hope a few people at least loose their jobs.

Sucks that more wasn't done, but just because you do one thing and it doesn't work doesn't mean give up. And it doesn't remove culpability from her for taking her own life.

[tontoz]

I apologize for my word choice by saying she was "weak," but I never said she deserved to die. I think its sad she's dead and it sucks that this situation escalated to the point that she decided to take her own life. I still won't change my stance though. People are accountable for their own choices, and faced with the stress she was going through she chose to end it.

My question basically boils down to this at its core - If you willingly take your own life then how can you say the actions of the harassers caused the bodily injury?



Sucks that more wasn't done, but just because you do one thing and it doesn't work doesn't mean give up. And it doesn't remove culpability from her for taking her own life.


First of all you are clueless about the legal system, saying bullying isn't a crime. Ever heard of harrassment? stalking? menacing? As someone pointed out earlier bullying is a crime in 41 states yet you stupidly cling to your belief that it shouldn't be a crime, not only ignoring the law but also ignoring all the kids whose lives have been ruined or ended because of bullying.

Secondly you are talking about a minor as if she was an adult. If an adult had sex with her his ass would be going to jail even if it was consensual. Why? Because from the standpoint of the law kids that age aren't mature enough to make sound decisions.

You really need to get a clue.

[HisAirness3]

replace the word bullying with stalking/harassment which is illegal.. if this was an adult or one or two adults doing this to another adult it would be considered stalking or harrasment but because it's kids we use the word bullying it's looked at in a different light by some... fact is there are people in jail now for this exact same thing done as an adult

following people to their homes, around a public place and throwing things at them is a crime... no matter the persons age

pretend this was a bunch of middle aged adults and a senior citizen what's your view now?
:applause: Exactly. I think this is starting to show us all that the OP is/was probably a bully and he's just defending his own kind. Or maybe he's the lawyer for those girls.