Physics Breakthrough: Recreating the Big Bang

[DonDadda59]

(CNN) -- Scientists at the Large Hadron Collider managed to make two proton beams collide at high energy Tuesday, marking a "new territory" in physics, according to CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research.

The $10 billion research tool has been accelerating the beams since November in the LHC's 17-mile tunnel on the border of Switzerland and France.
The beams have routinely been circulating at 3.5 TeV, or teraelectron volts, the highest energy achieved at the LHC so far, according to CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research.

The first two attempts Tuesday failed, said Steve Myers, CERN's director for accelerators. He said the beams were lost before they reached their full energy.

Experiments at the LHC may help answer fundamental questions such as why Albert Einstein's theory of relativity -- which describes the world on a large scale -- doesn't jibe with quantum mechanics, which deals with matter far too small to see.

The collider may help scientists discover new properties of nature. The as-yet theoretical Higgs boson, also called "the God particle" in popular parlance, could emerge within two or three years, Myers said in November.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/science/03/30/large.hadron.collider/index.html?hpt=T2

Now, I'm no physicist so please correct me if I am wrong but... it seems we may finally know CONCLUSIVELY, PRECISELY, how the Universe was formed and be able to recreate the conditions. In addition, we may be able to test and prove other theories that we were unable to in the past (relativity, time/space, etc). If that's true, is this greatest scientific achievement in human history?

More on the Large Hadron Collider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDoIzvKumGI)

http://www.bewilderedkid.com/blog/images/LHC2.png



Unreal.

[pete's montreux]

Not to be an ass, but this is really old. 4-5th thread on that Hadron Collider. On a side note, ISH now has It's first Hardon Appreciator, Juggernaut.

[DonDadda59]

Not to be an ass, but this is really old. 4-5th thread on that Hadron Collider. On a side note, ISH now has It's first Hardon Appreciator, Juggernaut.

Yeah, but they finally had a successful experiment. Before they had issues with hydrogen leaks that shut the project down for a year, then they had a bird drop a piece of bread into the machine that stalled everything :oldlol:

But it seems that we just had that 'EUREKA!' moment...

From the Christian Science Monitor, which I find ironic, but w.e.



Scientists have opened what promises to be a new window on the universe, and on the matter and energy it contains, with Tuesday's record-breaking particle collisions at the European Organization for Nuclear Research in Geneva.

At 7:06 a.m. EDT, detectors at the lab's Large Hadron Collider (LHC) recorded the accelerator's first proton-on-proton collisions at energy levels roughly 3.5 times higher than those in previous experiments.

The event marks the beginning of what researchers expect to be a historic 18- to 24-month science run. After that, scientists will attempt to drive the accelerator closer to its full design energy of 14 trillion electron volts. That energy level corresponds to energies present when the universe was only one ten-billionth of a second old.

Hopes are high that the new proton-smashing tool can lead to breakthroughs in scientists' understanding of basic physics.

"The last revolution in physics happened about 100 years ago, at the end of the 19th century," explains Jurgen Schukraft, a physicist and spokesman for an experiment dubbed ALICE, one of four major experiments along the underground accelerator's 27-kilometer (17-mile) circumference.

Scientists had a standard model of how the world worked, "but there was some data that did not fit," he says. The outcome of attempts to resolve the problems: general relativity and quantum mechanics, two pillars of modern science.

Today "we are in a similar situation. We have a standard model, which explains most things, but there are a few oddities. Where does mass come from? How many dimensions are there in the universe? What is dark matter?"

With the LHC beginning its first science run, "we could very well be at the verge of a revolution similar to the one 100 years ago, which completely changed our world view."

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/0330/Eureka!-Large-Hadron-Collider-fires-up-smashes-protons

[vapid]

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168827

[Waking_Life]

So what new innovations could come out of LHC?

[highwhey]

So what new innovations could come out of LHC?
Quantum Gravity theory or Theory of Everything. Basically, it can unify Einstein's GR and Quantum Physics (which ironically, Einstein helped start with photo electric effect). Einstein would jizz in his pants with this machine, no lies. His work that begun over a century ago, may be proven/dis-proven, modified, etc with the findings of this machine.

[DonDadda59]

So what new innovations could come out of LHC?

From what I gather, we'll be able to fill in the gaps of many physics theories such as the big bang/higs boson 'God Particle', theory of relativity, anti-matter/dark matter, space/time, the possible discovery of new dimensions, and probably open up a pandora's box of further scientific research.

And then maybe we can finally have those hover cars promised to us by the Jetsons :oldlol:

[highwhey]

From what I gather, we'll be able to fill in the gaps of many physics theories such as the big bang/higs boson 'God Particle', theory of relativity, anti-matter/dark matter, space/time, the possible discovery of new dimensions, and probably open up a pandora's box of further scientific research.

And then maybe we can finally have those hover cars promised to us by the Jetsons :oldlol:
this too. we should all be very excited because this new research will benefit us all. although even with the discovery of higgs or the unification of GR and QM, there will not be any "Complete Guide to Physics" book, rather, it will make way for a new foundation for which Physicist can go by.

[LongBeachLakers]

i cant grasp physics

[Take Your Lumps]

I hear people on the internet ask all the time..."what's the point of this?" "are there any practical applications?"

It's awesome, unbridled research like this that gave you the network of computers you're connected to right now in order to read this message.

Boomdeyada!

[Cannonball]

I hear people on the internet ask all the time..."what's the point of this?" "are there any practical applications?"

It's awesome, unbridled research like this that gave you the network of computers you're connected to right now in order to read this message.

Boomdeyada!
Say what? government funded research gave us our most innovative tech?

[Take Your Lumps]

Say what? government funded research gave us our most innovative tech?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET

[Joshumitsu]

From the Christian Science Monitor, which I find ironic, but w.e.

You are aware that the Christian Science Monitor isn't actually a religion oriented newspaper despite its originating from the Christian Science movement?

Just sayin'.

But, good thread overall. It's good that they're able to do this. This is a huge step forward. With the technological and scientific rate we're going at, the future only looks more exciting.

We're merely stepping out of a dark age.

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE]A New Clue to Explain Existence
Physicists at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory are reporting that they have discovered a new clue that could help unravel one of the biggest mysteries of cosmology: why the universe is composed of matter and not its evil-twin opposite, antimatter. If confirmed, the finding portends fundamental discoveries at the new Large Hadron Collider outside Geneva, as well as a possible explanation for our own existence.
Readers' Comments

In a mathematically perfect universe, we would be less than dead; we would never have existed. According to the basic precepts of Einsteinian relativity and quantum mechanics, equal amounts of matter and antimatter should have been created in the Big Bang and then immediately annihilated each other in a blaze of lethal energy, leaving a big fat goose egg with which to make to make stars, galaxies and us. And yet we exist, and physicists (among others) would dearly like to know why.

Sifting data from collisions of protons and antiprotons at Fermilab

[~primetime~]

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/images/7/78/Gman.jpg

it is only a matter of time...

[EroticVanilla]

^^^ What does that picture even mean?

[DonDadda59]

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/images/7/78/Gman.jpg

it is only a matter of time...

Might as well get used to praying to the B-Meson, that is the one true God :bowdown:

[pete's montreux]

Not to be an ass, but this is really old. 4-5th thread on that Hadron Collider. On a side note, ISH now has It's first Hardon Appreciator, Juggernaut.

Goddamn, I'm funny. Second line is comedy gold.

[~primetime~]

^^^ What does that picture even mean?
it is from the game Half Life...

http://gamernode.com/upload/manager/Eddie%20Inzauto/is%20silence%20golden/gordon.jpg


the premise of that game is that you start in a lab where they have something similiar to a "Super-Collider" or whatever and they end up opening the gate way to another deminsion by accident and all HELL BREAKS LOSE!!!

[EroticVanilla]

Ahhh I know Half-Life but I've never played it. I still on the N64 :pimp:

[macmac]

The last time I felt the hardon collider I was double penetrating the blackhole through her fabric...we call THAT the big bang....


Hihihihihihihi

[miller-time]

So what new innovations could come out of LHC?

popularised interest in science.

[Mista Kool]

Reverse-engineering the universe (doing science) and getting even a small glimpse of the elegance and genius of our Creator sends chills down my spine.

All of these interconnected parts, invisible to the naked eye, working in unison to create our beautiful universe? Praiseworthy.

The fact that we're not only able to comprehend it, but crave comprehending it? Mesmerizing.

The Privileged Planet (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5488284265590289530#) - Google Videos (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5488284265590289530#)

The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unreasonable_Effectiveness_of_Mathematics_in_t he_Natural_Sciences#The_deep_connection_between_sc ience_and_mathematics)

The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible.

[plowking]

So basically it creates a tiny micro black hole, correct? Though destroys it immediately after?

[~primetime~]

what sucks is that whatever this reveals...I guess from the thread title how the big bang starts and finishes (assuming it repeats forever)...will be written in a language that the average person will not be able to comprehend or care about...

once someone reads "anti-matter" that will set off the "okay whatever, there is crazy shit out there that some people figured out but I will never get it"...

hopefully this will spur a bunch of Science Channel specials for all of us who aren't actually scientist to understand it better...

the fact that the only time this thing even comes up for me is by a poster in ISH already shows a lack of public intrest...

[~primetime~]

HL2 really is better than Halo...

[ZeN]

popularised interest in science.


That Waking_Life guy is a dumbass.

[plowking]

HL2 = Greatest FPS of all-time


Agreed. Give Killzone 2 a play though and tell me what you think. Very good game in its own right.

[The Answer]

I hear people on the internet ask all the time..."what's the point of this?" "are there any practical applications?"

It's awesome, unbridled research like this that gave you the network of computers you're connected to right now in order to read this message.

Boomdeyada!

When it comes to matters of knowledge, I too am frustrated when people ask,

[vapid]

When it comes to matters of knowledge, I too am frustrated when people ask, “Are there any practical applications?” It really is a poor question. That’s not to say that it’s a bad thing when our pursuit of knowledge leads to some tangible benefit. On the contrary, it is a great when our epistemic goals coincide with our practical ones. But it is, however, simply a fact about the world that it is better to know than not to know. Indeed, as was argued in Plato’s Meno so long ago, knowledge is intrinsically valuable. We don’t need any real benefits apart from the acquisition of knowledge itself to justify pursuing it.

Let me offer an example from another field, namely, mathematics. There’s an old problem in number theory surrounding Goldbach’s famous conjecture -- the thesis that every even number greater than two can be expressed as the sum of two prime numbers. Despite it being deceptively simple to state, a proof of the conjecture has shown itself to be a tremendous challenge to generations of mathematicians. If it were ever proven, like most of what is learned in number theory, we would almost certainly gain nothing tangible as a result. Moreover, virtually all contemporary mathematicians believe that Goldbach’s conjecture is true, so proving that it was true would surprise practically nobody. None of that matters, however. Proving Goldbach’s conjecture would be a great triumph of human reason -- and that’s all that matters here! I want to suggest the same is true of theoretical physics. It is simply good by its own nature to understand the cosmos, and we don’t need any practical benefits to justify bettering our knowledge of the universe. With that said, though, I’m sure that our breakthroughs in physics will lead inevitably to technological growth.

Even with all that out of the way I can still see a plausible objection to this sort of research. Unlike in mathematics, the cutting edge breakthroughs mentioned in this thread come at the cost of the billions of dollars it took to build the Large Hadron Collider. Sure, some might argue, knowledge of physics is intrinsically valuable, but is it really that valuable? They might even frame it as a moral objection: Can we justify spending so much money on scientific research when so many people around the world lack food and basic resources? I admit that the waters get very murky at this point, and I don’t have all the answers.
Yes. Projects of such grand scale need to be attempted in order to continue to push the extent of our collective intellectual ability, and thus potentially bringing progress to our species.

However proving Goldbach's conjecture seems to be a waste of time if we all know it at least applies 99.9999...% of the time.

[jbot]

watched a show the other night that was saying that everything (and i mean EVERYTHING) we see around us, including us, came from a supernova that created our solar system. every molecule of your keyboard, desk, rocks, etc... that's just crazy to think about.

[miller-time]

watched a show the other night that was saying that everything (and i mean EVERYTHING) we see around us, including us, came from a supernova that created our solar system. every molecule of your keyboard, desk, rocks, etc... that's just crazy to think about.

yeah, every atom in your body was created inside of a star. it's almost incomprehensible.

[vapid]

watched a show the other night that was saying that everything (and i mean EVERYTHING) we see around us, including us, came from a supernova that created our solar system. every molecule of your keyboard, desk, rocks, etc... that's just crazy to think about.
umm....the Big Bang? (that created everything)

[gigantes]

watched a show the other night that was saying that everything (and i mean EVERYTHING) we see around us, including us, came from a supernova that created our solar system. every molecule of your keyboard, desk, rocks, etc... that's just crazy to think about.
which in turn all came from the atoms formed in the big bang, namely hydrogen and helium for the most part. which in turn came from subatomic particles formed earlier on.

and due to the fact that atoms are ultimately not stable entities, everything we see around us and everything that will come after us will eventually break back down into subatomic particles in a burned-out universe no longer able to create new generations of stars to light it up. assuming dark energy does not intervene to rip everything to shreds before then, of course.

anyway, yea... crazy, fascinating and humbling stuff IMO.

[gigantes]

umm....the Big Bang? (that created everything)
no, he meant that it was events like supernovas that pre-seeded our primordial solar system with heavier elements, making the potential for life possible on earth, to name one.

[vapid]

no, he meant that it was events like supernovas that pre-seeded our primordial solar system with heavier elements, making the potential for life possible on earth, to name one.
But its basically the same concept as the Big Bang, I don't see whats so mindblowing about that.

[~primetime~]

I thought the big bang started with a giant ball of matter (everything) and that exploded...:confusedshrug:

so the big bang itself didn't "create" anything...it was all already there

right?

NDEers claim that the big bang is never ending...it repeats for an eternity...there have been an "infinite" number of big bangs already and there always will be...

[vapid]

I thought the big bang started with a giant ball of matter (everything) and that exploded...:confusedshrug:

so the big bang itself didn't "create" anything...it was all already there

right?

NDEers claim that the big bang is never ending...it repeats for an eternity...there have been an "infinite" number of big bangs already and there always will be...
Well the action of the Bang set in motion the events that have led up to our existence, so to me its about the most solidly proven "creative" action that I know of at the moment.

[gigantes]

But its basically the same concept as the Big Bang, I don't see whats so mindblowing about that.
you don't see what's so mind-blowing about the big bang?

or you don't see what's so mind-blowing about the differences between supernovas and big bangs, and what the difference means for the potential of earth-like planets?

or you don't see what's so mind-blowing about the fact that the only concept in the whole process that you seem to understand is a very simplistic idea of a "big bang," period?

[miller-time]

I thought the big bang started with a giant ball of matter (everything) and that exploded...:confusedshrug:

so the big bang itself didn't "create" anything...it was all already there

right?

NDEers claim that the big bang is never ending...it repeats for an eternity...there have been an "infinite" number of big bangs already and there always will be...

whyyyyy? why bring them up again? hear say is not scientific evidence. this is a scientific thread. keep it out.

[~primetime~]

whyyyyy? why bring them up again? hear say is not scientific evidence. this is a scientific thread. keep it out.
it was big bang related and I find it interesting...:confusedshrug: ...that's why...lol...obviously

isn't there a legit theory in science that the big bang repeats anyway?

[gigantes]

isn't there a legit theory in science that the big bang repeats anyway?
yes, but it lost most of its support once astrophysicists detected that the universe was (and is) expanding faster and faster...

[vapid]

you don't see what's so mind-blowing about the big bang?
Most of us have learned about it in school for many years, so its not a new concept.



or you don't see what's so mind-blowing about the fact that the only concept in the whole process that you seem to understand is a very simplistic idea of a "big bang," period? I commented about any other part of the process, and you've always been an idiot.

[miller-time]

it was big bang related and I find it interesting...:confusedshrug: ...that's why...lol...obviously

isn't there a legit theory in science that the big bang repeats anyway?

there is the big crunch theory which says the fate of the universe is that it will collapse back in on itself into another singluarity, this could possibly allow for another big bang.

it depends on whether or not we lived in an open or closed universe (which i think we don't know at this point?). if the universe is open it means that expansion will be ongoing (less density than critical density), if it is a closed universe it means that it will eventually collapse because the critical density is less than the actual density of the universe.

it is basically the outcome between rate of expansion vs gravity. currently the rate of expansion is increasing. i don't really know alot about it though, i haven't done any university level physics. i have friends doing it and they tell me stuff, most of which goes way over my head.

[jbot]

no, he meant that it was events like supernovas that pre-seeded our primordial solar system with heavier elements, making the potential for life possible on earth, to name one.
bingo. you worded way better than i could.

[DonDadda59]

Big Bang particle discovery closer: scientists

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/120612-science-higgs-10a.grid-6x2.jpg

(Reuters) - Physicists investigating the make-up of the universe are closing in on the Higgs boson, an elusive particle thought to have been key to turning debris from the Big Bang into stars, planets and finally life, scientists said on Tuesday.

Researchers at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) are using their large Hadron Collider (LHC), the world's biggest particle accelerator, to try to prove that the mystery particle really exists.

Poring over huge volumes of data, CERN physicists are confident they are now closer to achieving that aim, outside scientists with links to two key research teams at the Switzerland-based facility said.

"They are getting quite fired up," one scientist outside CERN but with links to the experiment who declined to be named told Reuters.

Strong signs of the Higgs were being seen in the same energy range where it was tentatively spotted last year, the scientists added, even though the particle is so short-lived that it can only be detected by the traces it leaves.

The quest for the obscure but scientifically crucial Higgs boson is being conducted by harnessing the LHC's high energy accelerator, which is located on the edge of Geneva, to replicate the Big Bang, the process scientists believe brought the known universe into being.

The Higgs is named after Briton Peter Higgs who in 1964 first came up with a detailed idea of what it might be and is the last major missing piece in the so-called Standard Model of how the universe works at the elementary particle level.

Its formal discovery, once it is endorsed by the world scientific community, would almost certainly ensure a Nobel prize for Higgs, now 83 and retired, and perhaps for at least one other European physicist and one American.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/12/us-science-higgs-idUSBRE85B0EZ20120612

Apparently, the announcement may come as soon as this summer :eek:

[miller-time]

Big Bang particle discovery closer: scientists

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/120612-science-higgs-10a.grid-6x2.jpg

(Reuters) - Physicists investigating the make-up of the universe are closing in on the Higgs boson, an elusive particle thought to have been key to turning debris from the Big Bang into stars, planets and finally life, scientists said on Tuesday.

Researchers at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) are using their large Hadron Collider (LHC), the world's biggest particle accelerator, to try to prove that the mystery particle really exists.

Poring over huge volumes of data, CERN physicists are confident they are now closer to achieving that aim, outside scientists with links to two key research teams at the Switzerland-based facility said.

"They are getting quite fired up," one scientist outside CERN but with links to the experiment who declined to be named told Reuters.

Strong signs of the Higgs were being seen in the same energy range where it was tentatively spotted last year, the scientists added, even though the particle is so short-lived that it can only be detected by the traces it leaves.

The quest for the obscure but scientifically crucial Higgs boson is being conducted by harnessing the LHC's high energy accelerator, which is located on the edge of Geneva, to replicate the Big Bang, the process scientists believe brought the known universe into being.

The Higgs is named after Briton Peter Higgs who in 1964 first came up with a detailed idea of what it might be and is the last major missing piece in the so-called Standard Model of how the universe works at the elementary particle level.

Its formal discovery, once it is endorsed by the world scientific community, would almost certainly ensure a Nobel prize for Higgs, now 83 and retired, and perhaps for at least one other European physicist and one American.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/12/us-science-higgs-idUSBRE85B0EZ20120612

Apparently, the announcement may come as soon as this summer :eek:

its all bullshit. everyone knows god created the universe 6000 years ago!

but actually it sounds pretty awesome :)

[-p.tiddy-]

its all bullshit. everyone knows god created the universe 6000 years ago!

but actually it sounds pretty awesome :)

or maybe God created the Higgs boson...:confusedshrug:

figuring out why the matter exploded will never explain how the matter exists...just sayin

[miller-time]

or maybe God created the Higgs boson...:confusedshrug:

figuring out why the matter exploded will never explain how the matter exists...just sayin

i think you have that around the wrong way, they are figuring out the how, but that won't explain the why. explaining why isn't a scientific question.

[DonDadda59]

or maybe God created the Higgs boson...:confusedshrug:

figuring out why the matter exploded will never explain how the matter exists...just sayin

http://shootingthescript.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/no-country-for-old-men-coin-toss.jpg

"You Don't Know What You're Talking About"

[-p.tiddy-]

i think you have that around the wrong way, they are figuring out the how, but that won't explain the why. explaining why isn't a scientific question.
I am reading they are figuring out "why" the big ball matter exploded and formed into stars/black holes/anit matter/etc...

not "how" it got there in the first place

:confusedshrug:

[-p.tiddy-]

"You Don't Know What You're Talking About"
yes I do, and I GUARANTEE you there are plenty of thiests working on that project that see it the same way...

[DonDadda59]

yes I do, and I GUARANTEE you there are plenty of thiests working on that project that see it the same way...

The Higgs Boson aka 'the God Particle' is the how. 'Why' is a question for philosophers/religious folk or I guess you'd rather ask NDErs :oldlol:

[miller-time]

I am reading they are figuring out "why" the big ball matter exploded and formed into stars/black holes/anit matter/etc...

not "how" it got there in the first place

:confusedshrug:

that is still a how question. how stars and black holes formed after the big bang event. why implies intent or purpose. as dondadda said, it is generally left for philosophy or theology.

[-p.tiddy-]

The Higgs Boson aka 'the God Particle' is the how. 'Why' is a question for philosophers/religious folk or I guess you'd rather ask NDErs :oldlol:
You don't know what you're talking about it seems...this isn't a how or why in terms of a creator

If you think this project will disprove the concept of a designer you're going to be very disappointed.


Not sure why you're so obsessed with proving there is no God anyway...strange

[-p.tiddy-]

that is still a how question. how stars and black holes formed after the big bang event. why implies intent or purpose. as dondadda said, it is generally left for philosophy or theology.
Okay well this isn't explaining how the matter came to exist, just how it formed into what it did...

[miller-time]

You don't know what you're talking about it seems...this isn't a how or why in terms of a creator

If you think this project will disprove the concept of a designer you're going to be very disappointed.


Not sure why you're so obsessed with proving there is no God anyway...strange

did he say that it would?


Okay well this isn't explaining how the matter came to exist, just how it formed into what it did...

that is the point of the experiment. no one is out to disprove god.

[DonDadda59]

You don't know what you're talking about it seems...this isn't a how or why in terms of a creator

If you think this project will disprove the concept of a designer you're going to be very disappointed.


Not sure why you're so obsessed with proving there is no God anyway...strange

You're really reaching now. When I posted about the Higgs discovery... where did I mention it disproved a 'creator'?

This about observable, testable, tangible fact, not nonsensical belief.

As with all discussions you stumble into ignorantly, this is probably one you should read up on before posting. Just a suggestion.

[-p.tiddy-]

Lol, we all know Don created this thread to throw it in the face of thiests...

Probably just Christians in general...

[miller-time]

Lol, we all know Don created this thread to throw it in the face of thiests...

Probably just Christians in general...

http://images110.fotki.com/v606/photos/1/1710581/9382725/76895grandpasimpson-vi.gif

[DonDadda59]

Lol, we all know Don created this thread to throw it in the face of thiests...

Probably just Christians in general...

Yup, all part of my war on religion. You'd do well on Fox News :lol

[Timmy D for MVP]

I had secretly hoped that the Higgs wasn't gonna be there. Cause then shit would have hit many a fan.

But yeah, since they fired that things back up I figured it was only a matter of time before the solid confirmation would come down. Some very exciting things seem to be brewing for physicists, I can't wait for the next 5-10 years or so to see what we come up with.

[miller-time]

I had secretly hoped that the Higgs wasn't gonna be there. Cause then shit would have hit many a fan.

what about when they detected the faster than light neutrino. it would have been mental if it turned out to be legit.

[shlver]

I had secretly hoped that the Higgs wasn't gonna be there. Cause then shit would have hit many a fan.

But yeah, since they fired that things back up I figured it was only a matter of time before the solid confirmation would come down. Some very exciting things seem to be brewing for physicists, I can't wait for the next 5-10 years or so to see what we come up with.
Like what? All this discovery does is confirm a prediction by the standard model. No worthy practical applications in the near future.

I read these kind of articles and have seen so many of the same that it's really yawn worthy. It basically says they need collaborative confidence but on what? Tighter limit on higgs mass? Actual detection of noise?

[bluechox2]

cant they work any faster

[BlueandGold]

Quantum Gravity theory or Theory of Everything. Basically, it can unify Einstein's GR and Quantum Physics (which ironically, Einstein helped start with photo electric effect). Einstein would jizz in his pants with this machine, no lies. His work that begun over a century ago, may be proven/dis-proven, modified, etc with the findings of this machine.
It's basically still a glorified particle accelerator, which were conceived of and made in the 50s, if not earlier than that. I think most theoretical physics nerds/enthusiasts are still looking of a new experiment or procedure that will allow us to look further than what an atom smasher is able to provide.

[BlueandGold]

what about when they detected the faster than light neutrino. it would have been mental if it turned out to be legit.
It's true, information and other various particles in this universe are able to travel faster than the speed of light.

See: photons and quantum entanglement.

[shlver]

It's true, information and other various particles in this universe are able to travel faster than the speed of light.

See: photons and quantum entanglement.
Photons don't travel faster than light.
Information does not travel faster than light through quantum entanglement. it isn't information. It is random measurements taken at random. There is no informational context in that when the results of two observers are exactly anti correlative. To actually transmit data and information you need a classical channel ie slower than light.

[Bladers]

its all bullshit. everyone knows god created the universe 6000 years ago!

but actually it sounds pretty awesome :)


Wait, are you telling me that you can't comprehend that if an being created the universe. that it would create it in an orderly fashion?:hammerhead:

Dude when you look at skyscrappers and someone tells you, hey so and so created this, they built this. Do you respond with, "get out, how can so and so create that, I can tell you how it was made, it was made from steel stacked upon each other in a hallow ground...etc..etc"

well duh!

God is the same way. He didn't create the universe and it laws by magic.
Things didn't just appear into place. The known universe and all its billions of galaxies and stars didn't just instantaneously appear.
So when people say discovering how the universe came about is destroying the idea of a God created it, is down right retarded.

it would be the same if I said, hey I will tell you how a skyscraper was built, how it comes into being. That means no person created it.

[miller-time]

Wait, are you telling me that you can't comprehend that if an being created the universe. that it would create it in an orderly fashion?:hammerhead:

Dude when you look at skyscrappers and someone tells you, hey so and so created this, they built this. Do you respond with, "get out, how can so and so create that, I can tell you how it was made, it was made from steel stacked upon each other in a hallow ground...etc..etc"

well duh!

God is the same way. He didn't create the universe and it laws by magic.
Things didn't just appear into place. The known universe and all its billions of galaxies and stars didn't just instantaneously appear.
So when people say discovering how the universe came about is destroying the idea of a God created it, is down right retarded.

it would be the same if I said, hey I will tell you how a skyscraper was built, how it comes into being. That means no person created it.

i have literally no idea what you are talking about.

[DonDadda59]

i have literally no idea what you are talking about.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m46looxIi41qe9tnzo1_400.jpg

[Big_Dogg]

Wait, are you telling me that you can't comprehend that if an being created the universe. that it would create it in an orderly fashion?:hammerhead:

Dude when you look at skyscrappers and someone tells you, hey so and so created this, they built this. Do you respond with, "get out, how can so and so create that, I can tell you how it was made, it was made from steel stacked upon each other in a hallow ground...etc..etc"

well duh!

God is the same way. He didn't create the universe and it laws by magic.
Things didn't just appear into place. The known universe and all its billions of galaxies and stars didn't just instantaneously appear.
So when people say discovering how the universe came about is destroying the idea of a God created it, is down right retarded.

it would be the same if I said, hey I will tell you how a skyscraper was built, how it comes into being. That means no person created it.

Was wondering how long it would take you to come into this thread and totally F**k it up :lol

[Bladers]

i have literally no idea what you are talking about.

Many people like you who are ignorant perceive God as being magic.

[miller-time]

Many people like you who are ignorant perceive God as being magic.

i perceive god as being "made up."

[Bladers]

i perceive god as being "made up."

I perceive "evolution" as being made up aswelll.

Anyway i digress... notice i have nothing against science because much of what is "real" science has real overwhelming substantiated factual evidence.

like the sphere earth, earth hung on nothing, the expanding universe, etc..

[miller-time]

I perceive "evolution" as being made up aswelll.

Anyway i digress... notice i have nothing against science because much of what is "real" science has real overwhelming substantiated factual evidence.

like the sphere earth, earth hung on nothing, the expanding universe, etc..

earth is an oblate spheroid and it is tethered to the sun by gravitational forces.

[markymark]

Wait, are you telling me that you can't comprehend that if an being created the universe. that it would create it in an orderly fashion?:hammerhead:

Dude when you look at skyscrappers and someone tells you, hey so and so created this, they built this. Do you respond with, "get out, how can so and so create that, I can tell you how it was made, it was made from steel stacked upon each other in a hallow ground...etc..etc"

well duh!

God is the same way. He didn't create the universe and it laws by magic.
Things didn't just appear into place. The known universe and all its billions of galaxies and stars didn't just instantaneously appear.
So when people say discovering how the universe came about is destroying the idea of a God created it, is down right retarded.

it would be the same if I said, hey I will tell you how a skyscraper was built, how it comes into being. That means no person created it.

+1

the real "god" is actually this force/energy that triggered and sustained existence

[Simple Jack]

The everything that is created argument doesn't work...not only is it illogical and extremely flawed when talking about the universe as a whole, but also in the sense that it would require that god was created.

I suggest you all watch some debates from Christopher Hitchens. Claiming to know something that is impossible to know is what religion is. Science doesn't claim to know everything; but works towards finding answers. Religion says it knows everything; and if it doesn't, it simply uses the unknown to support how "intricate" god can be.

[raiderfan19]

The everything that is created argument doesn't work...not only is it illogical and extremely flawed when talking about the universe as a whole, but also in the sense that it would require that god was created.

I suggest you all watch some debates from Christopher Hitchens. Claiming to know something that is impossible to know is what religion is. Science doesn't claim to know everything; but works towards finding answers. Religion says it knows everything; and if it doesn't, it simply uses the unknown to support how "intricate" god can be.
No it wouldnt. We know the universe didn't always exist. Therefore the everything that was created argument can be applied, but We believe God to be eternal meaning he was always there. Huge difference. It's still a matter of belief and you are welcome to yours but your argument is flawed

[Bladers]

earth is an oblate spheroid and it is tethered to the sun by gravitational forces.

I lol @ your fail attempt.

One of the most driving force of physicists is the bible itself.
Many scientific theories we have today are to the credit of the bible.

[Bladers]

The everything that is created argument doesn't work...not only is it illogical and extremely flawed when talking about the universe as a whole, but also in the sense that it would require that god was created.

I suggest you all watch some debates from Christopher Hitchens. Claiming to know something that is impossible to know is what religion is. Science doesn't claim to know everything; but works towards finding answers. Religion says it knows everything; and if it doesn't, it simply uses the unknown to support how "intricate" god can be.

Not at all. Several atheists are now claiming the universe always existed in some form but since time was created after the big bang, the universe couldn't be caused.

Basically they are now coming up with a cop-out.

Thats the argument from the voicer of the Stephen hawnkins show on the discovery channel. If you watched it.

I haven't heard anything more contradictory. Well once. Someone was trying to argue that God couldn't exist because time was created after the big bang and nothing could act without time therefore nothing can be caused.

lmao. these guys claim to be king of reason and logic yet spew such contraditory bs. It amazes me.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Not at all. Several atheists are now claiming the universe always existed in some form but since time was created after the big bang, the universe couldn't be caused.

Basically they are now coming up with a cop-out.

Thats the argument from the voicer of the Stephen hawnkins show on the discovery channel. If you watched it.

I haven't heard anything more contradictory. Well once. Someone was trying to argue that God couldn't exist because time was created after the big bang and nothing could act without time therefore nothing can be caused.

lmao. these guys claim to be king of reason and logic yet spew such contraditory bs. It amazes me.
Dude wtf are you talking about, not only do you not grasp current theories on the universe, you are pretending you do while completely misrepresenting them. Why would anyone argue with you, its like beating your dick with a hammer.

[Simple Jack]

No it wouldnt. We know the universe didn't always exist. Therefore the everything that was created argument can be applied, but We believe God to be eternal meaning he was always there. Huge difference. It's still a matter of belief and you are welcome to yours but your argument is flawed


"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

Your argument describes the problem with religion.

What was said before we found out about DNA? Because I know the religious sentiment after was that DNA just shows the complexity and beauty of God.

[Simple Jack]

Not at all. Several atheists are now claiming the universe always existed in some form but since time was created after the big bang, the universe couldn't be caused.

Basically they are now coming up with a cop-out.

Thats the argument from the voicer of the Stephen hawnkins show on the discovery channel. If you watched it.

I haven't heard anything more contradictory. Well once. Someone was trying to argue that God couldn't exist because time was created after the big bang and nothing could act without time therefore nothing can be caused.

lmao. these guys claim to be king of reason and logic yet spew such contraditory bs. It amazes me.


What scientist claims to know everything? That is the point of science; to continue to accumulate knowledge and think freely.

Religion on the other hand, has the answer for everything. Do yourself the favor of at least coming to terms with your beliefs and what it preaches.

The more we find out and the more time that passes, the more silly religion looks.

[Math2]

Now, I'm no physicist so please correct me if I am wrong but... it seems we may finally know CONCLUSIVELY, PRECISELY, how the Universe was formed and be able to recreate the conditions. In addition, we may be able to test and prove other theories that we were unable to in the past (relativity, time/space, etc). If that's true, is this greatest scientific achievement in human history?

More on the Large Hadron Collider (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDoIzvKumGI)

http://www.bewilderedkid.com/blog/images/LHC2.png



Unreal.


Not to be the ass that ruins this for you, but people are still going to believe in stuff other than the big bang. It will just show what happened during it, but won't settle what was before it.

[DonDadda59]

Apparently, the announcement may come as soon as this summer :eek:

Press release from earlier today by CERN, July 4th (http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2012/PR16.12E.html) is the day.

[DonDadda59]

It is accomplished :applause:


New particle fits description of elusive Higgs boson, scientists say

http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/god-particle-higgs-boson-gi.jpg

(CNN) -- Scientists said Wednesday that they had discovered a new particle whose characteristics match those of the Higgs boson, the most sought-after particle in physics, which could help unlock some of the universe's deepest secrets.

"We have reached a milestone in our understanding of nature," said Rolf Heuer, the director general of the European Organization for Nuclear Research, which has been carrying out experiments in search of the Higgs boson at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the world's largest particle accelerator.

"The discovery of a particle consistent with the Higgs boson opens the way to more detailed studies, requiring larger statistics, which will pin down the new particle's properties, and is likely to shed light on other mysteries of our universe," Heuer said.

The particle has been so difficult to pin down that the physicist Leon Lederman reportedly wanted to call his book "The Goddamn Particle." But he truncated that epithet to "The God Particle," which may have helped elevate the particle's allure in popular culture.

Announcements by scientists about their analysis of data generated by trillions of particle collisions in the LHC, which is located beneath the Alps, drew avid applause at an eagerly awaited seminar in Geneva, Switzerland, on Wednesday.

Finding the Higgs boson would help explain the origin of mass, one of the open questions in physicists' current understanding of the way the universe works.
The researchers stressed the preliminary nature of the results they were announcing Wednesday.

"A more complete picture of today's observations will emerge later this year after the LHC provides the experiments with more data," the nuclear research organization, known as CERN, said in its statement.

But despite the words of caution, the scientists' mood and many of their comments were brimming with enthusiasm about the potential scope of what they had discovered.

"It's hard not to get excited by these results," said Sergio Bertolucci, the research director at CERN.

The announcements by the CERN researchers come two days after scientists in Illinois said they had crept closer to proving the existence of the Higgs boson but had been unable to reach a definitive conclusion.

The U.S.-based scientists outlined their final analysis based on more than 10 years of research and 500 trillion particle collisions using the U.S. Department of Energy's Fermilab Tevatron collider near Batavia, Illinois, whose budgetary woes shut it down last year.

They passed the baton onto their counterparts using the LHC, which is much more powerful than the Tevatron.

Located 328 feet underneath the border of France and Switzerland, the LHC cost $10 billion and has been sending particles smashing together in 17-mile tunnel for the past 18 months.

High speed proton collisions generate a range of even smaller particles that scientists have been sifting through in search of a signal in the data suggesting the existence of the Higgs boson.

The elusive particle is part of a theory first proposed by physicist Peter Higgs and others in the 1960s to explain how particles obtain mass.

The theory proposes that a so-called Higgs energy field exists everywhere in the universe. As particles zoom around in this field, they interact with and attract Higgs bosons, which cluster around the particles in varying numbers.
Imagine the universe like a party. Relatively unknown guests at the party can pass quickly through the room unnoticed; more popular guests will attract groups of people (the Higgs bosons) who will then slow their movement through the room.

The speed of particles moving through the Higgs field works much in the same way. Certain particles will attract larger clusters of Higgs bosons -- and the more Higgs bosons a particle attracts, the greater its mass will be.
While finding the Higgs boson won't tell us everything we need to know about how the universe works, it will fill in a huge hole in the Standard Model that has existed for more than 50 years, according to experts.

"The Higgs boson is the last missing piece of our current understanding of the most fundamental nature of the universe," Martin Archer, a physicist at Imperial College in London, told CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/04/tech/physics-higgs-particle/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHbGHsj2SWc)

Obi Wan Kenobi explains the Higgs Boson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2YQJsbbWNA)