A foul or a no-call?

[joyner82]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy5Bu3_K-Hk

You be the judge.

Edit: exclude Jazz and Thunder comments in this thread as they're biased.

Edit 2: exclude Cavs fans comments as well due to the fact they hate Durant.

[mrpibb]

I said this in the gamethread, but as a Jazz fan, I felt justified in that being a no-call. You don't get that foul called on Millsap down in OKC, Jazz probably win that game.

[50inchvertical]

in OKC, Utah probably doesn't get all of those flops either.

:lol when even Jazz commentators call it a foul

[joshwake]

both

[joyner82]

I said this in the gamethread, but as a Jazz fan, I felt justified in that being a no-call. You don't get that foul called on Millsap down in OKC, Jazz probably win that game.

Exclude Jazz and Thunder fan from this thread as their opinion's are worthless

[ILLsmak]

I'm sorry dude the more I watch it that was not even a foul. Why? He had his hand there then durant shot through it. And he shot the ball through it first.

-Smak

[Darkthug]

A foul no doubt. Thats why you can't take the NBA seriously anymore.:applause:

[Freshprince619]

The NBA had to make it look like Kevin Durant doesn't get preferential treatment. After Garnett blasted them and it was all over Espn. So what way better then let them get away with a foul at the end of a game? Thats all people are going to see on ESPN. And not all the bail out calls he was getting all game
David Stern :applause:

[YAH trick YAH]

Probably a foul. Make up for game in OKC.

[ak47buffalo]

Just grizzly heh. Obvious foul there. Make me a little sad to see that happen despite that it probably helps the Spurs get the 6th seed.

[inclinerator]

even though i dislike durant it was a foul

[Wonder Bread Kid]

Hand is part of the ball. No foul.

[w00terz]

It was a foul.

[50inchvertical]

should be noted btw that this is the UTAH broadcast.

[mrpibb]

Exclude Jazz and Thunder fan from this thread as their opinion's are worthless

Excuse me, my opinion is worth a lot, especially when I consider that a foul.

[50inchvertical]

I mean it sucks, but life goes on. Got Nuggets tomorrow, I'll be in the building. I'm done with it, well maybe I'll go ***** some on this other board but then I'm done.

[ILLsmak]

Hand is part of the ball. No foul.

Exactly. Why is everyone so sure it was a foul? He didn't have his hand straight up or anything, but his contest was there. It's not like he came down on his wrist before he shot, he shot through it, as I said.

This is something that is an arguable foul call even in the middle of a game why would they call it after that heroic shit that Deron did?

-Smak

[Dontstop]

Exclude Jazz and Thunder fan from this thread as their opinion's are worthless


As your avatar says OKC thunder 09-10 champs?

[brantonli]

That was a foul, Durant still had control of the ball and when he flicked his wrist forward to release it, CJ miles got him on the arm. Even though some people said that if Durant hadn't gotten those 2 BS free throws, the Thunder wouldn't have been in that situation anyway. True, but then the Thunder would be down by only 3 as well, and Durant would've taken the 3 as well, etc (I know that an argument could be made that the sequence of events would be wildly dfferent, but still...)

[Freshprince619]

Exactly. Why is everyone so sure it was a foul? He didn't have his hand straight up or anything, but his contest was there. It's not like he came down on his wrist before he shot, he shot through it, as I said.

This is something that is an arguable foul call even in the middle of a game why would they call it after that heroic shit that Deron did?

-Smak
Wow your a hater.

[joyner82]

As your avatar says OKC thunder 09-10 champs?

And I have given my opinion on the call where in this thread? In b4 you said their opinions were worthless in this thread, that's a fact.

[joshwake]

Hand is part of the ball. No foul.
not the entire forearm though. I think it was a good no call though. Isn't the hard-part-of-the-ball thing for when it gets knocked out of bounds and not shooting.

[ILLsmak]

Wow your a hater.

not really I just hate to see a game decided by the refs. Does what I said not make sense to you? What did you want him to do, pull his hand out of the way of Durants shot?

He got ball first and he didn't swing at the ball or anything he put his hand in the way.

-Smak

[w00terz]

not really I just hate to see a game decided by the refs. Does what I said not make sense to you? What did you want him to do, pull his hand out of the way of Durants shot?

He got ball first and he didn't swing at the ball or anything he put his hand in the way.

-Smak

:oldlol:

Wow, you're a troll. If you hit someone on the arm, it's a foul. If you hate when games are decided by the refs, then you must hate this game because the refs decided the outcome by not calling a foul. And signing your name at the end of your post doesn't make your sh*tty opinion any more credible.

-w00terz

[ILLsmak]

:oldlol:

Wow, you're a troll. If you hit someone on the arm, it's a foul. If you hate when games are decided by the refs, then you must hate this game because the refs decided the outcome by not calling a foul. And signing your name at the end of your post doesn't make your bullsh*t anymore credible.

-w00terz

He didn't hit him on the arm. All things being equal, Durant hit HIM on the arm. His hand was already there. It's not like he hacked him. he contested his shot. He didn't throw his arm off balance or anything, push his elbow... he simply put his hand in the way and Durant shot through it.

Edit: Pause at 54. I know I'm not going to change your mind, but be realistic.

-Smak

[AKADS]

as a cavs fan.

it was a foul and durant is a better shooter and mid range player then lebron.

durant is and will be a better scorer then lebron. I still think lebron physical ability and athletism will make him a better play as well as his court vision.


think of durant as a larry bird type who can get his while playing with great teammates and lebron as a mj whos teammates have to play off him cause he has a team play from or through him

[vinsane01]

I love how the coaching staff of okc didnt do much complaining and telling their players to just go back to the locker room. As if saying its just 1 game. Its just the reg season and were in the playoffs. Let it go. Which it is just a reg season game and should be forgotten.

Obvious foul though. The officials might have been affected with the kg comment.

[Batz]

He didn't hit him on the arm. All things being equal, Durant hit HIM on the arm. His hand was already there. It's not like he hacked him. he contested his shot. He didn't throw his arm off balance or anything, push his elbow... he simply put his hand in the way and Durant shot through it.

Edit: Pause at 54. I know I'm not going to change your mind, but be realistic.

-Smak
Is that really your argument? Seriously? Durants shooting arm hit his hand? I mean... come on? :oldlol:

[ILLsmak]

Is that really your argument? Seriously? Durants shooting arm hit his hand? I mean... come on? :oldlol:

No argument. It happened, no foul was called. I'm explaining why it wasn't. I was skeptical and thought it was a foul at first, but after watching it on the replay during the game then multiple times on youtube (51-55, watch it yourself) I believe it wasn't a foul.

You act like I need to make some excuse for the refs. lol. I'm not the one crying about the outcome.

-Smak

[Batz]

No argument. It happened, no foul was called. I'm explaining why it wasn't. I was skeptical and thought it was a foul at first, but after watching it on the replay during the game then multiple times on youtube (51-55, watch it yourself) I believe it wasn't a foul.

You act like I need to make some excuse for the refs. lol. I'm not the one crying about the outcome.

-Smak
:lol :oldlol: :D :roll: :applause: :roll: :lol

[w00terz]

He didn't hit him on the arm. All things being equal, Durant hit HIM on the arm. His hand was already there. It's not like he hacked him. he contested his shot. He didn't throw his arm off balance or anything, push his elbow... he simply put his hand in the way and Durant shot through it.

Edit: Pause at 54. I know I'm not going to change your mind, but be realistic.

-Smak

I take it you haven't watched basketball for very long?

http://i41.tinypic.com/2rxceg2.jpg

Look at CJ's arm, he is initiating the contact. It's a foul. You can't hit someone on the arm as they go to shoot.

[paintingshade]

No argument. It happened, no foul was called. I'm explaining why it wasn't. I was skeptical and thought it was a foul at first, but after watching it on the replay during the game then multiple times on youtube (51-55, watch it yourself) I believe it wasn't a foul.

You act like I need to make some excuse for the refs. lol. I'm not the one crying about the outcome.

-Smak

look, i understand the no call. while its sad for the game to end like that, i get it. i woulda done the same thing.

but even if the offensive player "initiates" the contact (which I don't see), that's a foul. the hand shouldn't be there. defenders aren't aloud to impede a shot like that. durant couldn't follow through. if that's not a foul, every nba player would defend like that.

[Batz]

I take it you haven't watched basketball for very long?

http://i41.tinypic.com/2rxceg2.jpg

Look at CJ's arm, he is initiating the contact. It's a foul. You can't hit someone on the arm as they go to shoot.
He did more then that. He jumped, which means he is out of position, he put his hand up and attempted to block the shot and instead hit arm and you have to give the shooter his space otherwise refs are known to call a foul. It so obvious too. I guess common sense ain't common.

[Doranku]

Easily a foul. Thunder got robbed.

[ILLsmak]

I take it you haven't watched basketball for very long?

http://i41.tinypic.com/2rxceg2.jpg

Look at CJ's arm, he is initiating the contact. It's a foul. You can't hit someone on the arm as they go to shoot.

Thank you for posting that. I think that proves everything.

BTW, he's... not hitting his arm? He's about .1 seconds away from getting his hand on the ball. After which point Durants arm motion 'shoots' through it.

-Smak

[Xsatyr]

It was a blatant foul, even more than what I expected. From what I was hearing I thought it was going to be a basic foul on a shooter. He clearly caught his on the arm on the shot but it happens I guess.

[paintingshade]

Thank you for posting that. I think that proves everything.

BTW, he's... not hitting his arm? He's about .1 seconds away from getting his hand on the ball. After which point Durants arm motion 'shoots' through it.

-Smak

i don't think he hit the ball, and even if durant "shoots" through it, its a foul

[w00terz]

Thank you for posting that. I think that proves everything.

BTW, he's... not hitting his arm? He's about .1 seconds away from getting his hand on the ball. After which point Durants arm motion 'shoots' through it.

-Smak
:roll:

[joyner82]

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/9530/63596693.png

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8236/25282608.png

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7295/87039058.png

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6389/28059090.png

Wasn't all arm? :roll:

[Xsatyr]

He didn't hit him on the arm. All things being equal, Durant hit HIM on the arm. His hand was already there. It's not like he hacked him. he contested his shot. He didn't throw his arm off balance or anything, push his elbow... he simply put his hand in the way and Durant shot through it.

Edit: Pause at 54. I know I'm not going to change your mind, but be realistic.

-Smak

That is a foul, sry but everyone knows that you can't touch a shooter. If your hands are in the area where a shooter's arms are going then move them bc it will be a foul.

[ILLsmak]

i don't think he hit the ball, and even if durant "shoots" through it, its a foul

My last post,

he did hit the ball, and because he hit the ball, what happens afterwards should be disregarded. If he hadn't gotten a piece of the ball then I can see where you are coming from, so if you want to believe he didn't, then I guess you would be right.

Joyner, look at frame 2. He clearly has his hand on the ball.

-Smak

[brandonislegend]

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/9530/63596693.png

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8236/25282608.png

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7295/87039058.png

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6389/28059090.png

Wasn't all arm? :roll:

lol...obvious foul.

[w00terz]

http://i39.tinypic.com/4t0dj9.jpg

[Xsatyr]

My last post,

he did hit the ball, and because he hit the ball, what happens afterwards should be disregarded. If he hadn't gotten a piece of the ball then I can see where you are coming from, so if you want to believe he didn't, then I guess you would be right.

Joyner, look at frame 2. He clearly has his hand on the ball.

-Smak

I can still see the blue paint between them on frame two so no.

[50inchvertical]

Why would you post the screencap of before the contact in question?

[joyner82]

My last post,

he did hit the ball, and because he hit the ball, what happens afterwards should be disregarded. If he hadn't gotten a piece of the ball then I can see where you are coming from, so if you want to believe he didn't, then I guess you would be right.

Joyner, look at frame 2. He clearly has his hand on the ball.

-Smak


LMAO, that's Durant's hand on the ball. In frame 3 please explain to me how that isn't a foul. I would love to hear it.

[YAH trick YAH]

Question about this picture..
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8236/25282608.png

Okay so we know he hits Durant's arm but in this picture it looks like he hits the ball first. On Deron's dunk attempt where he got hurt/fouled, they didn't call it because whats his name hit the ball first before the contact. So if you hit the ball first, does it matter? I really don't know the answer, not trying to be a smartass.

[brandonislegend]

Question about this picture..
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8236/25282608.png

Okay so we know he hits Durant's arm but in this picture it looks like he hits the ball first. On Deron's dunk attempt where he got hurt/fouled, they didn't call it because whats his name hit the ball first before the contact. So if you hit the ball first, does it matter? I really don't know the answer, not trying to be a smartass.

You can't honestly think that's a legit reason they are 2 completely different plays -.-

[Batz]

Question about this picture..
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8236/25282608.png

Okay so we know he hits Durant's arm but in this picture it looks like he hits the ball first. On Deron's dunk attempt where he got hurt/fouled, they didn't call it because whats his name hit the ball first before the contact. So if you hit the ball first, does it matter? I really don't know the answer, not trying to be a smartass.
He did not hit the ball. It looks like it in the caption but you can see there is a clear gap between his hand the ball, a second after he abuses his wrist and then humps his arm.


Thus it was a foul. Also, has anyone ever seen Durant that mad before? Seriously, the man was ready to cut some black-white stripes... :oldlol:

[YAH trick YAH]

You can't honestly think that's a legit reason they are 2 completely different plays -.-

Well what's the answer? If you hit the ball first on the block, can you make contact with the arm afterwords?

[brandonislegend]

Well what's the answer? If you hit the ball first on the block, can you make contact with the arm afterwords?

So if you hit the ball then punch you in the face it's okay?

Good logic, of course making contact with someones arms while their shooting is a foul, that's basically the definition.

[Xsatyr]

Well what's the answer? If you hit the ball first on the block, can you make contact with the arm afterwords?

On a dunk, most likely no foul bc you are in the paint. On a shooter it is a foul, making contact with the ball does not give you permission to foul afterwards if they continue with the shot. But either way you can still see the blue paint from the floor between them in the pic in question.

[joyner82]

He did not hit the ball. It looks like it in the caption but you can see there is a clear gap between his hand the ball, a second after he abuses his wrist and then humps his arm.


Thus it was a foul. Also, has anyone ever seen Durant that mad before? Seriously, the man was ready to cut some black-white stripes... :oldlol:

No..he's gotten 2 techs in 3 years in the league and 1 was a double tech..i've never seen go after a ref. He took the high road via twitter though


That game hurt right there I'm not gonna lie! But it was fun!! Blessed to have had the opportunity to hoop again..

[Xsatyr]

No..he's gotten 2 techs in 3 years in the league and 1 was a double tech..i've never seen go after a ref. He took the high road via twitter though

That is why I like Durant, good kid. Also he went to UT so I will always root for him.

[Myth]

Thats a foul. Happy it wasn't called though, strictly because I want the Blazers to move up.

[Batz]

That is why I like Durant, good kid. Also he went to UT so I will always root for him.
Lol.

[dyna]

Refs blew a call that potentially cost OKC a 2-seed.

But Utah fans deserve credit. It's their job to affect home games & they do. Definitely worked tonight. No balls from that ref crew. None.

And now:
Jazz 51-27 2nd in the West
Thunders 48-29 7th in the West

:banghead:

[Dontstop]

You all need to watch the FULL game then talk about that Call. STFU

[Freshprince619]

Question about this picture..
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8236/25282608.png

Okay so we know he hits Durant's arm but in this picture it looks like he hits the ball first. On Deron's dunk attempt where he got hurt/fouled, they didn't call it because whats his name hit the ball first before the contact. So if you hit the ball first, does it matter? I really don't know the answer, not trying to be a smartass.
You cant block his follow through. This is a foul in so many ways

[Dbrog]

It's a foul. I say this because if this happened to me, I would be pissed. BTW, this is the first time I've seen Durant so emotional. heheh :rockon:

[YAH trick YAH]

You cant block his follow through. This is a foul in so many ways

I think it's a foul also, and now seeing the NBA TV replay he didn't hit the ball at all, so the picture is misleading.

[YAH trick YAH]

So if you hit the ball then punch you in the face it's okay?

Good logic, of course making contact with someones arms while their shooting is a foul, that's basically the definition.

Well you can never punch someone in the face shot or no shot.

Reading my question though, yeah it sounds stupid because obviously it's a foul if you hit their arm. It just confused me how the Jazz announcers earlier said there was probably no foul on Deron's dunk because the guy blocked it first, and then there was contact.

[Fallguy20]

I dont like it when refs call foul when what altered the shot was a hand on the ball and NOTHING ELSE until its already left the guys hand. Ya know, the high five after the shots already away? It seemed like he got enough of the ball that the highfive after didnt matter because the ball was already gone/tipped.

[dyna]

You all need to watch the FULL game then talk about that Call. STFU

So that justifies the no call??

[jazz873]

Idk how you guys can see anything from this view. I am not seeing anything when i look at it from this view. But then again my eyes suck

[joyner82]

Here is a video from the Thunder's broadcast and it shows a good view of the foul. Also it's ROFL funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goXD0Q553LE

[warriorfan]

It was a foul.

The NBA hates having games like this get decided by free throws. Add in that it's in Utah plus overtime, being realistic you are gonna have to have torn the guys head off to get a whistle. Thats what Durant gets for being so skinny and passive...Where he should of done what Jordan would of done. MJ would of thrown CJ's ass to the ground and create enough space so even you and I could of knocked it down.

[Xsatyr]

It was a foul.

The NBA hates having games like this get decided by free throws. Add in that it's in Utah plus overtime, being realistic you are gonna have to have torn the guys head off to get a whistle. Thats what Durant gets for being so skinny and passive...Where he should of done what Jordan would of done. MJ would of thrown CJ's ass to the ground and create enough space so you and I could knock it down.

Except you can get away with that a lot easier back in the day.

[Juges8932]

I typically am not a fan of calling a foul at the end of the game, unless it is real bad.

At first though, I thought this was a terrible no-call.

Then, upon further revision, I'd probably say it could go either way. I mean, at any other point in the game, that would have been called, so it depends on whether you feel the game should be reffed exactly the same regardless of time or situation.

[chazzy]

That was such a blatant foul. Anyone who doesn't think so is just arguing for the sake of arguing, that's as clearcut as it gets. As a defender you cant prevent a shooter from actually following through with his shot, he clearly hit his forearm with his wrist. But oh well.. bad calls happen all the time. /thread

[RazorBaLade]

If that goes uncalled might as well tackle someone or slap them at the end of the game. It's almost as bad of a call as the one Kobe didn't get the 2nd game vs the heat in Miami, kind of ridiculous how refs just refuse to decide the game at the end.... when not making the call IS deciding the game.

[RoseCity07]

I saw that on ESPN, Durant definitely got fouled. I feel bad for him, but the Blazer fan in me is happy they lost.

[C-A-T-S]

I'm neutral but that was a foul.

[No.45]

he got hacked so bad

[lpublic_enemyl]

I'm neutral but that was a foul.
that was a foul but ref tend not to call them at the end of game type situations

[Mewwem22]

I saw that on ESPN, Durant definitely got fouled. I feel bad for him, but the Blazer fan in me is happy they lost.
I'm happy for you guys as well.. We gotta get your blazers in that 7th spot and send the pesky thunder down to 8th.. They can be LA's problem. :cheers:

And about the call... I don't think there's any question as to whether it was a foul or not. I think the only question is whether or not the ref should have blown the whistle in a situation like that. And, seeing as how durant was attempting a 30 footer with 1 second left in a game on the road, i don't think that the situation warranted a foul call that would have given the thunder the win. I think, had durant attempted something closer to the basket, he may have gotten a call. But to just have a catch and shoot situation from that far out with the game on the line, i'm glad that the refs didn't bail him out and give OKC the win cuz of it.. Yes it was a foul, no it shouldn't have been called in my opinion.. This is playoff type basketball.

Amazing game by both teams tonight though..
KD: :applause:
D-Will: :rockon:

[L.A. Jazz]

as a Jazzfan i saw a foul on Durant.
i really liked how the coaches of OKC reacted, very very good.

[BlazersDozen]

Not a foul...

The hand is part of the ball and no body contact during the shot and minimal during the follow through...

[joyner82]

Not a foul...

The hand is part of the ball and no body contact during the shot and minimal during the follow through...

Do Blazers fans really hate Durant this much?

[BlazersDozen]

I don't hate Durant at all...

Where is the foul?

Mile never touches the forearm...he touches his palm of Durant's hand...

[joyner82]

I don't hate Durant at all...

Where is the foul?

Everyone in this thread has agreed it was a foul outside of you and a few LeBron homers who happen to be Durant trolls/haters.

[Freshprince619]

I don't hate Durant at all...

Where is the foul?
Get your blazer d*ckriding glasses off and you can see the foul.
The hand is a part of the ball on a jumper?
Lmfao your an idiot.
A blind man can see that was a foul

[BlazersDozen]

So anybody who disagrees is a troll/hater?

LoL

GTFO

[joyner82]

So anybody who disagrees is a troll/hater?

LoL

GTFO

can't dispute the facts. you can't conceal your hatred for the durantula. don't hate on him, greg will be a fine center.

[BlazersDozen]

can't dispute the facts. you can't conceal your hatred for the durantula. don't hate on him, greg will be a fine center.

Wait...you're calling me a troll when I just returned from a thread where you said that Durant is a more efficient player than MJ...

...Mmk...

Think what you want, but many people will tell you that I hate on the Blazers as much as I love them. Just check what I said about Brandon Roy in the thread about him being a Superstar..

[w00terz]

I'm happy for you guys as well.. We gotta get your blazers in that 7th spot and send the pesky thunder down to 8th.. They can be LA's problem. :cheers:

And about the call... I don't think there's any question as to whether it was a foul or not. I think the only question is whether or not the ref should have blown the whistle in a situation like that. And, seeing as how durant was attempting a 30 footer with 1 second left in a game on the road, i don't think that the situation warranted a foul call that would have given the thunder the win. I think, had durant attempted something closer to the basket, he may have gotten a call. But to just have a catch and shoot situation from that far out with the game on the line, i'm glad that the refs didn't bail him out and give OKC the win cuz of it.. Yes it was a foul, no it shouldn't have been called in my opinion.. This is playoff type basketball.

Amazing game by both teams tonight though..
KD: :applause:
D-Will: :rockon:

Wow, just wow. So basically what you're saying is that when a foul goes against your team, it shouldn't be called? Nice logic there.

[Luigi]

Reasons why it isn't a foul:
1. First contact with the ball makes it a block.
1b. Durant wasn't in the act of shooting anymore because of the block, so palm contact is ignored.
2. Hand is part of the ball.
3. Durant initiated contact with Miles' already contesting arm.

Reasons why it is a foul:
1. Durant has a right to a follow through
2. Hip and foot contact (surprised nobody is arguing that. To me, this is the best argument for the foul on the perimeter, while the hand stuff leans more toward no foul.
3. Arm contact in the act of shooting is always a foul.

Reasons why it shouldn't be called:
1. Previous play set a precedent for partial blocks and the subsequent contact = no call
2. Final shots don't like whistles
3. The Delta Center always ignores fouls on last shots (offensive or otherwise)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Xd7W6OPSCuI/SWLXDWrtBxI/AAAAAAAAB2I/kQ2XdzuAMX4/s400/p1_jordan-getty.jpg

--------------
I know nobody will listen to me (since I'm a Jaz homer), but everything involving the arms here adds up to no foul. Miles hit ball first, which negates Durant's right to a follow though. He got mostly hand anyway after that. After a blocked shot or deflection, the act of shooting stuff doesn't really apply, and Durrant was responsible for initiating any arm contact at that point.

You might get the call for glancing hip contact outside the three-point line. The leg contact wouldn't do much since it was a bit of a kick out, but the hip contact might count as a foul.

Anyway, this thread reflects the average fan's approach to officiating. Fan's call games by gut feel and appearances. (Like in the Duke game, that deflection that sent the player sprawling to the ground looked violent, but it was mostly a harmless play on the ball. Looks like a flagrant, but is nothing more than an average foul. Average fans don't pay attention to the rules of engagement.)

Anyway, the evidence is in the youtube video for anyone to watch. Does anyone deny that Miles hit ball first? Because that is the crux of everything here imo.

[Freshprince619]

Anyway, this thread reflects the average fan's approach to officiating. Fan's call games by gut feel and appearances. (Like in the Duke game, that deflection that sent the player sprawling to the ground looked violent, but it was mostly a harmless play on the ball. Looks like a flagrant, but is nothing more than an average foul. Average fans don't pay attention to the rules of engagement.)

Anyway, the evidence is in the youtube video for anyone to watch. Does anyone deny that Miles hit ball first? Because that is the crux of everything here imo.
"Incidental Contact: The mere fact that contact occurs does not mean a foul has been committed. Players are allowed to contact other players when reaching for a loose ball, or when performing normal offensive and defensive movements. The hand is considered

[Luigi]

[QUOTE=Freshprince619]"Incidental Contact: The mere fact that contact occurs does not mean a foul has been committed. Players are allowed to contact other players when reaching for a loose ball, or when performing normal offensive and defensive movements. The hand is considered

[joyner82]

*Reads Luigi's post*
*Moves head left*
*See's his avatar*
*laughs*

[Luigi]

*Reads Luigi's post*
*Moves head left*
*See's his avatar*
*laughs*

I'm would be surprised if you read all of it, since I included a phrase about being a Jazz fan...

Do you have any argumens against what I said instead of who I am? It's called an ad hominem falacy what you're doing right now.

[Mewwem22]

Wow, just wow. So basically what you're saying is that when a foul goes against your team, it shouldn't be called? Nice logic there.
Hahaha, how'd you manage to get THAT from what i wrote? It had nothing to do with it being "my team." I agreed that it was a foul, and i agreed that the refs did the right thing by letting something like that go at the end of a game. Had something like this happened against the jazz, lets say deron taking a shot at the end of the game and getting hacked on the arm, i'd have the same opinion.. I'm not gonna lie and say i wouldn't be somewhat upset, but i'd STILL side with the refs had they let it go and not called anything... Games shouldn't be decided by free throws..

If OKC wanted a better opportunity to win at the end of the game, they should have drawn something up that was closer to the basket and not a catch-and-shoot 30 footer.

[Freshprince619]

Wait a minute...are you saying that since the hand is part of the ball while in Durrant's posession that this ins't a foul? To me that is the smoking gun evidence that it isn't a foul, since he hit ball and hand before anything else. . .

Could you explain what you mean some more? I'm not sure I understand.
That saying hand is part of ball doesnt apply to when your shooting jumpers.

[RazorBaLade]

I'm happy for you guys as well.. We gotta get your blazers in that 7th spot and send the pesky thunder down to 8th.. They can be LA's problem. :cheers:

And about the call... I don't think there's any question as to whether it was a foul or not. I think the only question is whether or not the ref should have blown the whistle in a situation like that. And, seeing as how durant was attempting a 30 footer with 1 second left in a game on the road, i don't think that the situation warranted a foul call that would have given the thunder the win. I think, had durant attempted something closer to the basket, he may have gotten a call. But to just have a catch and shoot situation from that far out with the game on the line, i'm glad that the refs didn't bail him out and give OKC the win cuz of it.. Yes it was a foul, no it shouldn't have been called in my opinion.. This is playoff type basketball.

Amazing game by both teams tonight though..
KD: :applause:
D-Will: :rockon:

You can't say that. You CAN'T. It being a 30 footer does not permit the defender to play without rules, how drastically different on a scale of 1-10 would the entire history of the NBA and every playoff series ever if miracle shots weren't allowed? And yes, you're not allowing them because no one is making a shot being fouled like that.

Remember Kobe's sideways bank 3 gamewinner? If wade had fouled him like that and you said it doesn't matter, its a side-flying game winner from 25 ft, foul shouldnt be called how stupid would u be knowing that kobes shot did hit?

also to your next post............ Not giving free throws decides the game as well

[Luigi]

That saying hand is part of ball doesnt apply to when your shooting jumpers.

I understood that it does. As long as Durant is touching the ball, that hand is part of it. Am I wrong?

[RazorBaLade]

I understood that it does. As long as Durant is touching the ball, that hand is part of it. Am I wrong?

surface area of hand that is covering the ball = part of the ball, but it only matters on plays from behind obv

[Freshprince619]

I understood that it does. As long as Durant is touching the ball, that hand is part of it. Am I wrong?
If you hit a guys hand after the ball leaves his hand its still a foul. Durant got hit when he was still shooting so what you think? Miles didnt block the shot why did the ball make it halfway to the basket?

[Luigi]

If you hit a guys hand after the ball leaves his hand its still a foul. Durant got hit when he was still shooting so what you think? Miles didnt block the shot why did the ball make it halfway to the basket?

Right. We agree here. Except that I think he got ball first making it a block, allowing for legal contact on the arm, palm, etc... afterward, which was basically done by both players together. His getting ball first basically stops the act of shooting and negates Durant's right to a followthrough. That's my thinking anyway.

[RazorBaLade]

Right. We agree here. Except that I think he got ball first making it a block, allowing for legal contact on the arm, palm, etc... afterward, which was basically done by both players together. His getting ball first basically stops the act of shooting and negates Durant's right to a followthrough. That's my thinking anyway.

Watch the :53-54 second mark, there's no way it's a block. It is indisputable, play it frame by frame a few times in that area (took me 2 attempts) to get it at the right spot and you'll see it was a clear foul. Still blows my mind as to why refs won't review plays, it's like they are scared to see the footage and admit they were wrong.

[Freshprince619]

Right. We agree here. Except that I think he got ball first making it a block, allowing for legal contact on the arm, palm, etc... afterward, which was basically done by both players together. His getting ball first basically stops the act of shooting and negates Durant's right to a followthrough. That's my thinking anyway.
Yeah if it was a block you right but it wasnt look at 2:18 he doesnt even touch the ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjyrTycrs2Y

[Luigi]

Watch the :53-54 second mark, there's no way it's a block. It is indisputable, play it frame by frame a few times in that area (took me 2 attempts) to get it at the right spot and you'll see it was a clear foul. Still blows my mind as to why refs won't review plays, it's like they are scared to see the footage and admit they were wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goXD0Q553LE
I went back to it again. As the replays get lower camera angles (closer to the floor) it looks less and less like he gets the ball. The third replay looks very close. I thought it was clear that (1) he got ball, then (2) got hand and (3) forarms touched. But that third review makes (1) look about 50/50 to me.

At very least, the first contact is Miles meeting him at even hight on the release, after which he gave Durant an illegal high five. If that is the case, I'll admit to a foul, but probably not one that I'd like to see get called at the end on any NBA game. Still 50/50 though imo.

[Luigi]

Yeah if it was a block you right but it wasnt look at 2:18 he doesnt even touch the ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjyrTycrs2Y

Yeah, that's the low angle I am talking about. 50/50. It is also very close to getting hand before Durant releases it. It he got hand first, same applies, but if he got wrist first, we have a foul. It is really a very hard call, harder than I thought from that high camera angle.

[w00terz]

Hahaha, how'd you manage to get THAT from what i wrote? It had nothing to do with it being "my team." I agreed that it was a foul, and i agreed that the refs did the right thing by letting something like that go at the end of a game.

I'm not sure you know this or not, but in the NBA, when a foul is committed, it is called. It shouldn't depend on when it is committed. Not calling clear fouls at the end of a game to avoid "deciding" the outcome of a game is stupid because it is in itself deciding the outcome of a game.


Had something like this happened against the jazz, lets say deron taking a shot at the end of the game and getting hacked on the arm, i'd have the same opinion..

No, you really wouldn't. That's the biggest bullsh*t I've ever read. Don't lie, you would be pissed off just like I would be pissed off if it happened to my team.


I'm not gonna lie and say i wouldn't be somewhat upset, but i'd STILL side with the refs had they let it go and not called anything...

Oh yea, just like all your fellow Jazz fans who sit and complain about what Jordan did to you Russell 12 years ago, right? Sure, you'd side with the refs.


Games shouldn't be decided by free throws..

Right, but games should be decided by really bad (non) calls that are clearly defined in the rule book as fouls.


If OKC wanted a better opportunity to win at the end of the game, they should have drawn something up that was closer to the basket and not a catch-and-shoot 30 footer.

Wow, where do I even begin on this one? "It's Durant's fault he took a 30 foot shot and got hacked to sh*t by CJ Miles! THAT SHOULD BE AN OFFENSIVE FOUL ON KD!"

Rules are rules. If a player commits a foul, it should be called. It's only fair. It doesn't matter when, where, or who commits it. If it's in the rule book, it should be called. There is no rule that says refs must shallow their whistle at the end of games. You're just defending your flawed logic because it secured your team a win.

[Luigi]

Oh yea, just like all your fellow Jazz fans who sit and complain about what Jordan did to you Russell 12 years ago, right? Sure, you'd side with the refs.

Being one of those complainers, I thought I'd chime in.

What we have here is different for a few reasons. First, an offensive foul to end a game is not the same as a defensive foul. Allowing a player to get open by pushing their defender to make separation is a lot more aggresive than contesting a shot and giving the illegal high-five. Should either be called? I don't really know, but one is more explicit that the other.

Even if it was the right no call on Jordan's push-off, I still hate knowing that Jordan's GOAT shot came after a no call. But that doesn't mean we can compare it directly to this game. There was a lot more emotionally riding on that shot than this one, which probably makes me a less reliable judge of what should be called. Apples and oranges again.

[momo]

To me it was a foul, but I am used to no calls on last possessions so :confusedshrug:

[joyner82]

Being one of those complainers, I thought I'd chime in.

What we have here is different for a few reasons. First, an offensive foul to end a game is not the same as a defensive foul. Allowing a player to get open by pushing their defender to make separation is a lot more aggresive than contesting a shot and giving the illegal high-five. Should either be called? I don't really know, but one is more explicit that the other.

Even if it was the right no call on Jordan's push-off, I still hate knowing that Jordan's GOAT shot came after a no call. But that doesn't mean we can compare it directly to this game. There was a lot more emotionally riding on that shot than this one, which probably makes me a less reliable judge of what should be called. Apples and oranges again.

This is the dumbest ****ing thing I have ever read on any forum. So an offensive foul should be called but a defensive foul shouldn't? REALLY? You still have to make the shot if you commit an offensive foul. If it's a defensive foul, ala tonight, the shot is generally impossible to make. LMFAO @ your ridiculous bias.

[dbugz]

That was a foul.

Why they didn't review it on the replay? Does the OKC has the right to appeal on that last play to atleast review it on the replay?

[RaceBannana]

I didn

[ODEN>DURANT]

I'm not a Thunder fan, i'm not a Jazz fan, and you may think im anti Durant coz my username, but i'm not. After all, I think it's no foul.

[Bodin]

that's a foul in my opinion

[Meticode]

No foul.

[liquidrage]

Anyone who says it wasn't a foul is a tool.

It was 100% clear as day a foul. You're not allowed to hit the shooter in the arm, let alone jump into him and get contact with leg and body. And Durants arm was solidly hit. He was jumped into and absorbed body contact as well.

However, if you want to argue that you don't mind a no-call in that situation, go ahead. But seriously, no foul? Stop posting on the interweb if that's your "interpretation".

[joshwake]

c'mon Jazz fans. we all know it was a foul. The only question is, can we justify a no-call?... Personally I think you can, I would have let it play in the playoffs, and it's pretty much the playoffs. If the game was in OKC it would have been called. Love it or hate it.... that's just how the NBA goes

[BlazersDozen]

I'd hate playing a pick up game against 90% of this thread <_<

Anyways, the body contact AFTER the shot was because Durant kicked his legs out to TRY and DRAW a foul.

Do you think he would have kicked his legs out if there was infact a foul?

Naaa

Players do that when they try to draw the foul...

Want to argue it's because of body contact? Then why didn't Durant's body move? It remained in perfect shooting form along with his arm...

No foul to me...I hate ***** touch fouls

But I grew up with 90s NBA...

[Skyscraper]

people should foul all the time in these late game situations. It is the perfect strategy. No one will ever call it

[joshwake]

people should foul all the time in these late game situations. It is the perfect strategy. No one will ever call it
not in the playoffs, and not on the road

[puppychili]

What everyone is overlooking is that the dude scored 45 points and now leads the league in scoring. Durant should be the MVP without a doubt. I, like many people was ready to give the Jordan mantle over to Lebron but it seems Durant is ready to crash the party.

Lebron vs Durant is the rivalry of the future.

[Hammertime]

http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad8/gsbus8/Shot.png

[liquidrage]

What everyone is overlooking is that the dude scored 45 points and now leads the league in scoring. Durant should be the MVP without a doubt. I, like many people was ready to give the Jordan mantle over to Lebron but it seems Durant is ready to crash the party.

Lebron vs Durant is the rivalry of the future.

Lebron is Durant + Westbrook for the Cavs. He's the MVP. Durant brings the ball up the court like once a game, and that's only when Maynor's on the floor. Lebron is the Cavs offense. Durant is the primary scorer for the Thunder. Big difference.

[Derka]

Hand is part of the ball. No foul.

[Shax]

What everyone is overlooking is that the dude scored 45 points and now leads the league in scoring. Durant should be the MVP without a doubt. I, like many people was ready to give the Jordan mantle over to Lebron but it seems Durant is ready to crash the party.

Lebron vs Durant is the rivalry of the future.

Durant is barely outscoring someone who puts up way more assists and has the best team record. Durant is not the MVP.

[Derka]

Anyone who says it wasn't a foul is a tool.

It was 100% clear as day a foul. You're not allowed to hit the shooter in the arm, let alone jump into him and get contact with leg and body. And Durants arm was solidly hit. He was jumped into and absorbed body contact as well.

However, if you want to argue that you don't mind a no-call in that situation, go ahead. But seriously, no foul? Stop posting on the interweb if that's your "interpretation".

Translation: "I am a douche who will not allow anyone to disagree or dissent from my obviously perfect and 100%-correct-at-all-times opinions."

[liquidrage]

I'd hate playing a pick up game against 90% of this thread <_<

Anyways, the body contact AFTER the shot was because Durant kicked his legs out to TRY and DRAW a foul.

Do you think he would have kicked his legs out if there was infact a foul?

Naaa

Players do that when they try to draw the foul...

Want to argue it's because of body contact? Then why didn't Durant's body move? It remained in perfect shooting form along with his arm...

No foul to me...I hate ***** touch fouls

But I grew up with 90s NBA...

That's a foul in any era. He got his arm good, from the side, completely taking his arm down. Seriously, a freaking pick up game? Look tool, there was contact before the shot. He got the body because he jumped towards Durant. Durant wasn't straight up and down either. But he got a lot of body. Now, the body part I think is a good no call in that situation because they need to let them play it out on the court. But he got only a sliver of ball, and a whole lot of arm. That's why it's a bad no call, but crap happens.

I seriously LULZ over your pick up game argument. What a horrible point. The NBA is now the equivalent of a pick up. How freakin astute.

[liquidrage]

Translation: "I am a douche who will not allow anyone to disagree or dissent from my obviously perfect and 100%-correct-at-all-times opinions."

Hey clown, what color is the sky? Blue? Good we agree. Just like this was a foul. The argument of whether it should have been called or not is one people can make. But not whether an actual foul was committed.

[Luigi]

This is the dumbest ****ing thing I have ever read on any forum. So an offensive foul should be called but a defensive foul shouldn't? REALLY? You still have to make the shot if you commit an offensive foul. If it's a defensive foul, ala tonight, the shot is generally impossible to make. LMFAO @ your ridiculous bias.

You aren't very well read. You're comments have been allegations and insults, never arguments. Bring something stronger next time and give me a reason why I'm wrong.

[Luigi]

I'd hate playing a pick up game against 90% of this thread <_<

Anyways, the body contact AFTER the shot was because Durant kicked his legs out to TRY and DRAW a foul.

Do you think he would have kicked his legs out if there was infact a foul?

Naaa

Players do that when they try to draw the foul...

Want to argue it's because of body contact? Then why didn't Durant's body move? It remained in perfect shooting form along with his arm...

No foul to me...I hate ***** touch fouls

But I grew up with 90s NBA...

Amen. Touch-foul-guy is worse than try-to-dunk guy and always-gets-injured guy.

[BlazersDozen]

That's a foul in any era. He got his arm good, from the side, completely taking his arm down. Seriously, a freaking pick up game? Look tool, there was contact before the shot. He got the body because he jumped towards Durant. Durant wasn't straight up and down either. But he got a lot of body. Now, the body part I think is a good no call in that situation because they need to let them play it out on the court. But he got only a sliver of ball, and a whole lot of arm. That's why it's a bad no call, but crap happens.

I seriously LULZ over your pick up game argument. What a horrible point. The NBA is now the equivalent of a pick up. How freakin astute.

I never compared a pick up game to a NBA game...

I was simply saying that I could imagine 90% of this thread being ***** call fouls on everything players...

[Mewwem22]

I'm not sure you know this or not, but in the NBA, when a foul is committed, it is called. It shouldn't depend on when it is committed. Not calling clear fouls at the end of a game to avoid "deciding" the outcome of a game is stupid because it is in itself deciding the outcome of a game.
Ideally that's how it SHOULD be, but refs aren't perfect and are prone to making bad calls, or making bad no-calls.. It's always been that way in the NBA. You just need to play through it. The Thunder can say the refs missed a call, that's fine, but to only focus on that one particular thing and act like that's the only thing that lost the game for them, is ridiculous...


No, you really wouldn't. That's the biggest bullsh*t I've ever read. Don't lie, you would be pissed off just like I would be pissed off if it happened to my team.
Dude, it DID happen to my team.. On New Years day when the jazz played this same thunder team. Jazz were down 1 point with about 4 seconds left, and ronnie price got hit on the arm as he was attempting the potential game winning shot.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAAiXED3xrY
No foul was called.. I didn't ***** and moan about it though. I moved on and understood that you're just not gonna get that type of call on the road in situations like that..
I think the NBA should implement a "challenge" rule for teams just like football to prevent situations like this from happening though..

[kap]

let's break it down guys:

touchings the hand while shooting = foul
durant got touched on his shooting hand while shooting
call = foul

pretty simple?

[Himan12]

Foul

[Luigi]

let's break it down guys:

touchings the hand while shooting = foul
durant got touched on his shooting hand while shooting
call = foul

pretty simple?

First premise is false.

[liquidrage]

First premise is false.

Correct. Contact with a hand that is on the ball technically isn't a foul, though that's often called.

This case though he got a lot of arm.

http://www.yomine.com/myjunk/durantfoul.jpg

[King Lebron LBJ]

First thought I think a no call was the right decision.

[boozehound]

it was a good no call on a minuscule foul

[boozehound]

let's break it down guys:

touchings the hand while shooting = foul
durant got touched on his shooting hand while shooting
call = foul

pretty simple?
yeah, that isnt correct. the hand holding the ball is "part" of the ball. Contact shouldnt be called a foul, even though it often is. He got a little arm on the follow through, but I think its a good no call.

[kap]

oh. i learned something new today on ish. how productive.

[thejumpa]

If you don't think this was a foul, then maybe you should have your eyes checked. I mean, even some of the Jazz players reacted as if a foul was to be called. The dude hit Durants arm/hand as he was shooting and it totally changed the shot.

Even if the refs don't see the contact, they should be able to get on instant replay and change the call. I mean, this was an important game and I would hate to see the same no-call in the playoffs.

[ProfessorMurder]

I didn't watch the game or anything, but based on that one play... DEFINITELY a foul. He got Durant's arm and ruined the follow through causing and air ball.

[RajonKGcelts]

Obvious foul, Thunder got screwed

[Parps]

Want to argue it's because of body contact? Then why didn't Durant's body move? It remained in perfect shooting form along with his arm...


So what you're saying is, Durant, one of the best shooters in the game today, "remained in perfect shooting form" and magically missed the basket by 10ft.....get real.

Did they credit CJ with a block on that play? (the boxscore shows 1 blk, but not sure when it occurred)

[boozehound]

so heres a question. say he did get a piece of the ball. is it still a foul if he makes contact with the arm on the folllow through? even though the ball trajectory was already impacted?

[airchibundo507]

That was a stupid call, but Durant deserves it for racking up stupid, ticky-tack fouls. Boozer blocked Durant cleanly at the end of the fourth quarter, and the refs made sure to blow their whistles. Should have seen the look on Sloan's face. It's really hard for me to show any compassion at all.

[CavsLebronMo]

Did he block the shot? No, obviously not.
Well then why did he airball it 2 feet short?
That is a blatant foul, the argument should be whether you call it in that situation or not. A foul is a foul at any point IMO, Thunder got screwed.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

:eek: WOW, Durant getting a call AGAINST him:eek:

[liquidrage]

so heres a question. say he did get a piece of the ball. is it still a foul if he makes contact with the arm on the folllow through? even though the ball trajectory was already impacted?

Yes, by rule it's still a foul if you get ball first. Otherwise you could just crash into an opposing player to get easy blocks, you just gotta get ball first.

Though refs often don't call some body contact if they got ball first.

[HeyMarkus]

im a cavs fan and thats obviously a foul. stole the game.

[The_Yearning]

I saw the game but the site was slow as fu#k when the game ended so I couldn't post. But that Sh!t was definitely a foul, a blatant one. It was as if that Matthews dude wanted to foul Durant. The refs had front row views and didn't call it cause they don't got the balls to. Durant got cheated that play. Everyone knows Durant got fouled, people saying he didn't get fouled are Utah fans/supporters in denial or just lying.

That's why Deron was trying to contain his laughter during the interview after the game cause homie knew Durant got fouled and was probalby like "yeaaaa N1gga you a sucka!"

[Luigi]

so heres a question. say he did get a piece of the ball. is it still a foul if he makes contact with the arm on the folllow through? even though the ball trajectory was already impacted?

The way I understand it, if you get ball first (remember that the hand is part of the ball before the releast) you stop the act of shooting. This lets you interfere with the follow through, almost as if you were defending off the ball. In this case, it looks like both players hit one another's arms after the shot was interupted with initial hand/ball contact.


Yes, by rule it's still a foul if you get ball first. Otherwise you could just crash into an opposing player to get easy blocks, you just gotta get ball first.

Though refs often don't call some body contact if they got ball first.

Well, the body contact will get you a foul all the time, deflection or not. But I would think arm contact is going to be permited once the act of shooting is canceled.

[Luigi]

OK. Here's the final argument:

-Miles got ball or hand before he got arm.
-Hand is part of the ball as long as it is in Durant's hand.
-After Miles interrupted the shot, Durant no longer has a right to a followthrough: the act of shooting is effectively over.
-Contact after the interruption isn't the same as contact on a shot: it is legal.

1. First Frame:
http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad8/gsbus8/Shot.png
Get's ball (hand part of the ball) before the release and legally interrupts the shot.


2. Second Frame:
http://www.yomine.com/myjunk/durantfoul.jpg
Both players make legal contact with the other's arm after the shot is already interrupted.

The only thing is, the first frame is from a very high angle and it isn't as clear as it looks there. As you move down, it is harder and harder to tell if Miles got high enough to get hand/ball on first contact. That is where this call stands or breaks imo. I give it a 50/50 for that reason, I just can't be sure he got high enough to legally contest the shot on first contact.

[Hibachi!]

OK. Here's the final argument:

1. First Frame:
http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad8/gsbus8/Shot.png
Get's ball (hand part of the ball) before the release and legally interrupts the shot.

[/I]

dude, even if "hand is part of the ball", you can still see his leg make contact with durant. which would be a foul on the body anyways

[boozehound]

dude, even if "hand is part of the ball", you can still see his leg make contact with durant. which would be a foul on the body anyways
look at the second frame. if there is body contact, its pretty minimal.

[Luigi]

dude, even if "hand is part of the ball", you can still see his leg make contact with durant. which would be a foul on the body anyways

Yeah, I admitted to some hip contact outside the three-point line...but that is pretty ticky-tacky stuff (even though it is more obvious than the legal-high-five). The foot contact doesn't count though, Durant kicked out if anything there.

[swstein]

From NBA.com

NEW YORK, April 7, 2010

[juju151111]

Yeah, authoritative ruling. I still think its no foul.

Officials have come out in non-authoritative venues and called MJ's pushoff a foul. How should we interpret that?
It was a foul. LOL Even Mj admits it. He says he finds ways to angel his moves so the refs don't do it. So does KG. The Fact of the matter is he fouled KD.
http://www.nba.com/official/nba_statement_oklahoma_city_utah_game.html#?ls=ire f:nbahpt1

FACT

[Batz]

Yeah, authoritative ruling. I still think its no foul.

Officials have come out in non-authoritative venues and called MJ's pushoff a foul. How should we interpret that?
From a non-biased point of view. You're a jazz fan, nuff' said. Your opinion is obviously biased, so I don't know why I even bother.

[G.O.A.T]

this thread is further proof, some people will argue anything.

[Luigi]

From a non-biased point of view. You're a jazz fan, nuff' said. Your opinion is obviously biased, so I don't know why I even bother.

You haven't bothered. I have given arguments, you have given insults. If you did bother, you would address my reasoning from previous posts instead of just point ot the fact that I am a self-confessed Jazz fan.

[Luigi]

this thread is further proof, some people will argue anything.

And further proof that others won't engage in any arguments at all.

[w00terz]

"BUH BUH, I STILL DON THINK IT WAZ A FOUL! REMEMBER JORDAN'S PUSH OFF ON RUSELZ? LULZ, NO CALL. JAZZ DESERV DA WIN!"

No foul right?

[Luigi]

"BUH BUH, I STILL DON THINK IT WAZ A FOUL! REMEMBER JORDAN'S PUSH OFF ON RUSELZ? LULZ, NO CALL. JAZZ DESERV DA WIN!"

No foul right?

You completely misunderstood why I brought up Jordan's pushoff. That case illustrates that authorities don't determine facts. What happens on the floor does. My argument always rested, and still rests, on what happened on the floor. If you want to appeal to authority, I have no problem with that, but remember that authorities aren't perfect.

[boozehound]

funny that luigi, whether he is right or wrong on this, is the only one who has brought a legitimate argument to this thread in pages.

[CavsLebronMo]

You completely misunderstood why I brought up Jordan's pushoff. That case illustrates that authorities don't determine facts. What happens on the floor does. My argument always rested, and still rests, on what happened on the floor. If you want to appeal to authority, I have no problem with that, but remember that authorities aren't perfect.
Say it out loud. "I am wrong." Feels great right?

[NotYetGreat]

Just saying something from what I've observed, but in the three Jazz games I saw this season, there's been fishy officiating. Jazz @ Suns, the refs were screwing the Jazz over. Celtics @ Jazz, the refs were screwing the Celts (but just in the 3rd Q; Jazz just killed them in the 4th). Now, there's this versus OKC.

[Batz]

Just saying something from what I've observed, but in the three Jazz games I saw this season, there's been fishy officiating. Jazz @ Suns, the refs were screwing the Jazz over. Celtics @ Jazz, the refs were screwing the Celts (but just in the 3rd Q; Jazz just killed them in the 4th). Now, there's this versus OKC.
Every team gets treatment at home. Which is one of the many reasons why refs should be put to death.

[alwaysunny]

Every team gets treatment at home. Which is one of the many reasons why refs should be put to death.

I've always been skeptical about home court treatment. Do refs feel pressure from the fans or what?

[Batz]

I've always been skeptical about home court treatment. Do refs feel pressure from the fans or what?
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/sportatorium/assets_c/2009/03/Cuban%20Cartoon%20Money-thumb-500x500.gif

[ShannonElements]

I for one am tired of this notion that veteran players should get the calls while the younger guys have to first pay their dues. And all other similar notions. It's stupid. If it's a foul, it's a foul. Call it.

I'm glad these refs aren't court room judges.

[Amil23]

obvious foul

[bagelred]

Well here's my take.

It's VERY close. People think it's an obvious foul. Not to me. Did he get hand or did he get the ball? Not sure, especially when it happens in a split second decision.

So you are going to give Durant three foul shots on a very long 3 at the very end of a game on a POSSIBLE foul? Don't we always say in that situation it should be clear cut?

It could go either way really, and I always side on a "no call" in those last second situations. And home teams get those calls sometimes.

[boozehound]

Well here's my take.

It's VERY close. People think it's an obvious foul. Not to me. Did he get hand or did he get the ball? Not sure, especially when it happens in a split second decision.

So you are going to give Durant three foul shots on a very long 3 at the very end of a game on a POSSIBLE foul? Don't we always say in that situation it should be clear cut?

It could go either way really, and I always side on a "no call" in those last second situations. And home teams get those calls sometimes.
very good approach and one I agree with.

[White Chocolate]

Clearly a foul. No ref is perfect and I understand they all make mistakes, but mistakes in those types of situations not only cost teams games, but it also affects playoff seeds.

[U got Served]

The "arguments" coming from some of these posters are pretty sad and PATHETIC. It was an obvious foul and I don't see how one can argue differently.

[Amil23]

It was a foul.I mean ther f**cking bodies collided in the air basically

[Luigi]

The "arguments" coming from some of these posters are pretty sad and PATHETIC. It was an obvious foul and I don't see how one can argue differently.

The great thing about an argument is that you can show its flaws. In contrast, caps lock, scare quotes, and insults don't constitute an arugment.

[U got Served]

The great thing about an argument is that you can show its flaws. In contrast, caps lock, scare quotes, and insults don't constitute an arugment.

The sky is up, are you going to argue that is not? :oldlol:


NBA statement on the Oklahoma City-Utah game from Tuesday (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/04/07/durant.statement/index.html)

On the final play of last night's Oklahoma City-Utah game, the officials missed a foul committed by the Jazz's C.J. Miles on the Thunder's Kevin Durant during a three-point shot attempt.

Avery Johnson on the same play, 25 sec. into the video
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5064972


:violin:

[Luigi]

The sky is up, are you going to argue that is not? :oldlol:


NBA statement on the Oklahoma City-Utah game from Tuesday (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/04/07/durant.statement/index.html)


Avery Johnson on the same play, 25 sec. into the video
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5064972


:violin:

If you want to say this play being a foul is as self evident as the sky being up, I don't think there is anything we can talk about here. If you want to take your opinion straight from nba statements and authorities like Avery Johnson, again, there is no possible discussion. And that's ok.

I just wanted to point out the difference between supporting a position with arguments and cheering for a position. I couldn't get anyone to argue against my position, but I got a lot of boos for proposing it. ISH is more of a cheering forum than an argument forum, and I shouldn't have tried to make it different than it is. :cheers: