DMT, the god molecule?

[Chan ho nam]

I just found out about DMT, N-Dimethyltryptamine.

This guy i met told me you literally communicate with alien beings in space. Now I'm obsessed about this substance. Anyone know anything more about it?

[Legend of Josh]

Dont do it. You're not old/mature enough to handle its side effects.

[kentatm]

http://library.thinkquest.org/08aug/01036/Imagini/HM36~Drugs-Are-Bad-Posters.jpg

[pete's montreux]

I'm pretty sure It's the most powerful hallucinogen there is. People have killed themselves on it.

[Chan ho nam]

what are its side effects? i've done other shrooms as well as some opiates before in moderation.

[Legend of Josh]

what are its side effects? i've done other shrooms as well as some opiates before in moderation.

How old are you? I suggest you stay away. DMT will superbly mind-rape you.

[pete's montreux]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine#Psychedelic_properties

[pete's montreux]

LOJ, experiences? I've read about this before and have watched some interesting testimonials on YouTube.

[Legend of Josh]

I tired it a few times... it will mind-rape you. Never... ever... again.

[~primetime~]

it gives you an NDE effect (near-death-experience)

or in this case just an OBE (out of body experience)

I have done a decent amount of research on this drug and kentamine, both can give you an NDE effect...

the people that do this drug do not belive that they are hallucinating, they believe what they are experiencing is real...

you will leave your body...


http://www.beamsinvestigations.org.uk/OBE.jpg



I would be very scared to mess around with that stuff...

[DirtBag]

If LOJ is right and you're pretty young I'd stay away from it. If not, you're a grown man go for it. but do the research first you're in for a mind ****

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-WtV-aEIxY

[v-unit]

Joe Rogan got to you huh

[pete's montreux]

I tired it a few times... it will mind-rape you. Never... ever... again.

Mhmm, that seems to be the general consensus on it. I watched a video with an older woman [mid 50's], who detailed her drug use history which was quite extensive and had been taking hallucinogens for almost 40 years. She described DMT as a horrific experience, and that she would never touch the stuff again.

And people go even farther and do this stuff in water tanks and shit. Crazy.

[Jailblazers7]

That shit sounds way too crazy. Hallucinogens sounds fun but this seems to go over the line.

[Legend of Josh]

Mhmm, that seems to be the general consensus on it. I watched a video with an older woman [mid 50's], who detailed her drug use history which was quite extensive and had been taking hallucinogens for almost 40 years. She described DMT as a horrific experience, and that she would never touch the stuff again.

And people go even farther and do this stuff in water tanks and shit. Crazy.

I have such an addictive personality I am actually thinking about doing it tonight. Haha... better not. I need encouragement folks. Tell me no!

[pete's montreux]

I have such an addictive personality I am actually thinking about doing it tonight. Haha... better not. I need encouragement folks. Tell me no!

Tape it and share your experience if you do!

[CLE[216]]

Y'all are some *******. 15 year-olds do that shit around here.

[iamgine]

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/other/gandz/gandz.dmt.html

[oh the horror]

My last experience with any Hallucinogens was like 10 years ago...Took some acid, and basically freaked out. I do not want to go to "that place" again, so i basically lay off the stuff these days...plus I dont know, when you get older, hallucinogens kind of lose their allure.

[~primetime~]

Mhmm, that seems to be the general consensus on it. I watched a video with an older woman [mid 50's], who detailed her drug use history which was quite extensive and had been taking hallucinogens for almost 40 years. She described DMT as a horrific experience, and that she would never touch the stuff again.

And people go even farther and do this stuff in water tanks and shit. Crazy.
that doesn't sound like an NDE at all...

what I was reading about mostly was kentamine...and a couple people that became addicted to that "NDE" experience...although the drug itself is not addictive.

It doesn't sound like LOJ experienced an OBE either...or it would be clear to him, nothing like a "horrific mind rape"...

[hayden695]

I'm pretty sure It's the most powerful hallucinogen there is. People have killed themselves on it.
So? People have also killed themselves on shrooms.


LOJ do it and tape it like pete suggested.

[Legend of Josh]

that doesn't sound like an NDE at all...

what I was reading about mostly was kentamine...and a couple people that became addicted to that "NDE" experience...although the drug itself is not addictive.

It doesn't sound like LOJ experienced an OBE either...or it would be clear to him, nothing like a "horrific mind rape"...

PT... all you do is read about this stuff, but you don't take the plunge yourself. You have no idea how this stuff will affect you.

DMT can be a nightmare to some people. Stop acting like you're some NDE slash DMT expert. You've never experienced either of the two, yet you're so fascinated with it inside your own mind you're telling yourself you're an expert on the subject. Not the case.

When you man up and try DMT for yourself I will respect what you have to say about the substance. Until then, your opinion on the topic is slippery at best.

[EroticVanilla]

So? People have also killed themselves on shrooms.


LOJ do it and tape it like pete suggested.
I've tripped on Mushrooms multiple times and I doubt anyone people have killed themselves on it (though I guess it's possible). The first time I did it I ate a bag (3.5 grams) to my head and wasn't in suicidal mode. DMT is next level shit though, I'm semi-interested in it, but it's not something you take lightly.

My most intense hallucinogenic experience was a mixture of antihistamine (benadryl) and DXM (cough medicine). I posted it in the "dead boy saw grandma thread, so I'll jut quote it:


Yea, mixing DXM with something like benadryl (which I was stupid enough to try), is ****ing ridiculous. The hallucinations are unbelievable, unlike acid or shrooms where they are basically visual disturbances, the ones you have with this combo actually come off as real.

I remember going into a half sleep in bed and seeing Dimebag Darrel from Pantera skipping backwords down my street while juggling, then getting woken up and feeling like my bed was on my wall instead of the floor and I was vertical instead of horizontal.

Before I went into the pseudo-sleep I remember seeing 3 mosquitoes fly at my and behind them tinkerbell was fishing on a bridge and the fish jumped up and ate her. (it wasn't in color though, it was like the air had come together these 3 dimensional shapes).

Edit: I was 14 when I did this

BTW whatever dumbass 13 year old said that kids do that shit needs to GTFO, DMT isn't even a common drug, no 15 year old has that type of hook-up

[kentatm]

BTW whatever dumbass 13 year old said that kids do that shit needs to GTFO, DMT isn't even a common drug, no 15 year old has that type of hook-up

It wouldn't have been THAT hard for me to get when I was 15. New England prep schools are like little drug colleges.

[Legend of Josh]

that doesn't sound like an NDE at all...

what I was reading about mostly was kentamine...and a couple people that became addicted to that "NDE" experience...although the drug itself is not addictive.

It doesn't sound like LOJ experienced an OBE either...or it would be clear to him, nothing like a "horrific mind rape"...

Furthermore, a true out-of-body experience is a literal mind-rape. You don't feel high, you feel like you're dead, no longer in control of your mind/body/soul. You feel like your time is up. That is mind-rape. It's not some heavenly experience where angels are playing harps in the background. It's more like something in your head is letting you know it's time to die... and that sets off extreme paranoia which produces a terrible trip/experience if you're not prepared.

You really have no idea what you're talking about PT. Please just speak only of what YOU know... and not what you've read off some 'net site.

[Quata]

Unless you have dabbled in some serious hallucinogens previously i'd recommend against it. Not that they will build up any resistance to it but they will prepare you for the experience. Try and experience as many variations of trips as you can, so if you come across anything nasty during a DMT trip you are equipped to see it, interpret it and respond accordingly leading to deciphering it and gaining life-meaning.

Its like base jumping before meddling in skydiving, you need to prepare yourself if you truly want to gain the maximum enjoyment/value out of the trip.

Not to recommend doing copious amounts of drugs but you might want to do some heavier doses of shrooms, some acid, some mescalin/peyote before you do DMT.

[EroticVanilla]

It wouldn't have been THAT hard for me to get when I was 15. New England prep schools are like little drug colleges.
Dude DMT has little recreational value, unlike Acid or Shrooms where you take it, trip and have euphoria. DMT you smoke (or ingest, but then you need a MAOI to allow it to take effect) and basically go out of reality, I haven't taken it, but from what I know about it you lose touch with all external stimuli. Quata or LOJ could fill in the details, but it's definitely not something thats going around freely like weed.

Also DMT takes a while to synthesize, you can read about it here (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml), scroll down to "SYNTHESIS & EXTRACTIONS" to see.

[~primetime~]

Furthermore, a true out-of-body experience is a literal mind-rape. You don't feel high, you feel like you're dead, no longer in control of your mind/body/soul. You feel like your time is up. That is mind-rape. It's not some heavenly experience where angels are playing harps in the background. It's more like something in your head is letting you know it's time to die... and that sets off extreme paranoia which produces a terrible trip/experience if you're not prepared.

You really have no idea what you're talking about PT. Please just speak only of what YOU know... and not what you've read off some 'net site.
you are wrong about NDEs, that is not what they are, nothing is proven about them and scientists are baffled, YOU should stop talking about hat part, and there is a very long in depth thread about DMT and kentamine in here...where both Dondadda and Miller and I go through it's supposed effects...neither of them have done the drug either yet they claim it gives you an NDE effect...

I have done enough research on this to ask questions and state what I have read...

if the only people that are allowed to speak on this subject are the people that have done the actual drug itself, then you would be posting alone...

get over yourself...you are reverting back into "mind-rape-LOJ"...



There are plenty of us in here that have never done crack, but could tell you it's effects...

[Quata]

Nobody goes base jumping before they go skydiving hahaha. Base jumping is far more dangerous.
That's exactly my point haha. I'm recommending against doing dmt straight off before having some practice with other chemicals

[hayden695]

I've tripped on Mushrooms multiple times and I doubt anyone people have killed themselves on it (though I guess it's possible). The first time I did it I ate a bag (3.5 grams) to my head and wasn't in suicidal mode. DMT is next level shit though, I'm semi-interested in it, but it's not something you take lightly.


Well I have heard a bunch of stories about it, but one that I am quite sure is true is just about a girl who said she felt like there were rats or some shit in her stomach and she cut herself open.

I never tried shrooms but I have a bunch of friends who have done em a bunch and I never got an impression that, that could happen. Maybe she mixed or something?:confusedshrug:

[~primetime~]

from wiki:


Ketamine produces a dissociative state, characterised by a sense of detachment from one's physical body and the external world which is known as depersonalization and derealization.[73] At sufficiently high doses (e.g. 150 mg intramuscular), users may experience what is coined the "K-hole", a state of dissociation whose effects are thought to mimic the phenomenology of schizophrenia.[74] Users may experience worlds or dimensions that are ineffable, all the while being completely unaware of their individual identities or the external world.

I was speaking of kentamine really...that is what I have read the most about...

It looks as though DMT giving you a legit "NDE effect" is only a theory...never been proven...


edit:


Several speculative and yet untested hypotheses suggest that endogenous DMT, produced in the human brain, is involved in certain psychological and neurological states. DMT is naturally produced in small amounts in the brain and other tissues of humans and other mammals.[31] It may play a role in mediating the visual effects of natural dreaming, and also near-death experiences,

it is just speculation...

and from what I am reading from LOJ, and pete's post, those are not an "NDE" type effect...

[EroticVanilla]

DMT is much stronger then Ketamine, so I find it doubtful that DMT doesn't cause NDE.

[Quata]

Well I have heard a bunch of stories about it, but one that I am quite sure is true is just about a girl who said she felt like there were rats or some shit in her stomach and she cut herself open.

I never tried shrooms but I have a bunch of friends who have done em a bunch and I never got an impression that, that could happen. Maybe she mixed or something?:confusedshrug:
Sounds like it could have happened, when you do shrooms there is a very prominent tingling sensation in your belly, however, they are not rats. Its merely a build up of energy created by the mushrooms that you need to harness and used for your trip. Its all about embracing the circumstances and using available resources to maximise it.

This is part of my point with not jumping into DMT, some people are not prepared for these things. Say if the girl had done a few lower doses of shrooms first and had friends tell her that that sensation in your belly is a common occurence and that she should harness it, then she wouldnt be dead.

Everything is a process and part of a journey in all different facets, again, i'd reccomend taking small steps towards DMT before doing it. It will be beneficial for many, many reasons.

[~primetime~]

DMT is much stronger then Ketamine, so I find it doubtful that DMT doesn't cause. NDE.
the strength may not matter here...:confusedshrug:

just the different effects maybe?

from what I am reading, it doesn't look like DMT has been proven to give an NDE...although it looks like there is a great difference between endogenous DMT, and "man-made DMT"...or senthetic DMT, whatever...

people who have NDEs do not describe them as horrific hallucinations at all...or anything like that really...in fact I have never read of a person having an NDE claim it was a hallucination...


anyone here done kentamine?

[EroticVanilla]

Really though, from my uses of hallucinogens I've learned one thing, unless you've done said hallucinogen you really should comment on it's subjective effects, Ketamine is chemically similar (though stronger) to DXM which I have a pretty extensive knowledge of (I probably did it 50ish times in a 3-4 month span when I was a freshman, the first time I did it I was in school :lol ) so I feel I can SOME-WHAT comment on it and know what I'm talking about. And I've done Shrooms, Acid, and San Pedro (related to Peyote) multiple times as well so I can comment on those.

So, not to be a dick PT, what direct experience do you have with hallucinogens to go with your posts?

Edit: I want to clarify that I'm not trying to be a dick, it's just trying to convey the feelings you get from hallucinogens with spoken or written word is one of the hardest things to do IMO.

[Jailblazers7]

My bad, misread your post :D

I've gone skydiving, it was pretty sweet. Never done and hallucinogens.

Always wanted to try skydiving. Not so much for DMT. Weed is all I need.

[~primetime~]

Really though, from my uses of hallucinogens I've learned one thing, unless you've done said hallucinogen you really should comment on it's subjective effects, Ketamine is chemically similar (though stronger) to DXM which I have a pretty extensive knowledge of (I probably did it 50ish times in a 3-4 month span when I was a freshman, the first time I did it I was in school :lol ) so I feel I can SOME-WHAT comment on it and know what I'm talking about. And I've done Shrooms, Acid, and San Pedro (related to Peyote) multiple times as well so I can comment on those.

So, not to be a dick PT, what direct experience do you have with hallucinogens to go with your posts?
other than a shit load of acid and shrooms nothing...literally dozens upon dozens of times...

done them with Dooms too...he can back me up, we both did every drug that was around at the time not named crack...

never tried peyote though, I will admitt to that...

that shit doesn't matter...it doesn't look like anyone has done kentamine, and the "EXPERTS" on these drugs have never treid them either...it is ridiculous to say you can't post in here unless you have done the drug...

[EroticVanilla]

that shit doesn't matter...it doesn't look like anyone has done kentamine, and the "EXPERTS" on these drugs have never treid them either...it is ridiculous to say you can't post in here unless you have done the drug...
I didn't mean you can't post, but you can't say something definitively, that all I meant by it, research can give you a cursory understanding, but not enough to say for a fact.

It doesn't really seem like you were doing it (or intending to) so post away.

[~primetime~]

I didn't mean you can't post, but you can't say something definitively, that all I meant by it, research can give you a cursory understanding, but not enough to say for a fact.

It doesn't really seem like you were doing it (or intending to) so post away.
I was just speaking about the NDE effect, which I have spent literally weeks studing...and I can definitively say that what LOJ and Pete described (that old lady) is not an "NDE effect"...when someone has one of those it is never mistaken by that person as anything else...in other words, if you have one YOU KNOW IT...it is never a "horrific mind rape" kinda thing...

[pete's montreux]

I was just speaking about the NDE effect, which I have spent literally weeks studing...and I can definitively say that what LOJ and Pete described (that old lady) is not an "NDE effect"...when someone has one of those it is never mistaken by that person as anything else...in other words, if you have one YOU KNOW IT...it is never a "horrific mind rape" kinda thing...

I'm not really sure what you're talking about? :confusedshrug:

Neither I or the lady in the video said it was the NDE effect, so I don't really understand what your point is.

[~primetime~]

I'm not really sure what you're talking about? :confusedshrug:

Neither I or the lady in the video said it was the NDE effect, so I don't really understand what your point is.
I didn't say you did say that...I was just pointing out that it isn't one...I wasn't like trying to argue or anything...my only point was to say that isn't an NDE

I think I maybe just spend so long (like the past 4 days) in that thread debating with Dondadda and Miller about DMT and kentamine in relation to an NDE effect that it just came naturally in here to bring that up right away, and the title being "God Molecule"...they had me reading alot of stuff on DMT and kentamine...

from what I understand now, kentamine can produce an NDE effect, while it seems that DMT producing one is only a theory...(from all the stuff I have read from scientists that have not done the drug either)

[pete's montreux]

I didn't say you did say that...I was just pointing out that it isn't one...I wasn't like trying to argue or anything...my only point was to say that isn't an NDE

I think I maybe just spend so long (like the past 4 days) in that thread debating with Dondadda and Miller about DMT and kentamine in relation to an NDE effect that it just came naturally in here to bring that up right away, and the title being "God Molecule"...they had me reading alot of stuff on DMT and kentamine...

from what I understand now, kentamine can produce an NDE effect, while it seems that DMT producing one is only a theory...(from all the stuff I have read from scientists that have not done the drug either)
My bad, I thought you were putting words in my mouth as opposed to the usual ***** that goes in there.

[Hazard]

I've been meaning to try that for a while, never had the chance though. Your brain naturally produces DMT so when you smoke it, you get an overdose of it in your brain which causes a 10-15 min trip. Then your brain will eliminate the extra DMT and you will go back to normal.

I read an article a while ago it was pretty interesting. It was basically a guy doing it in different locations. The conclusion he came to is if you smoke DMT close to water, it will feel like heaven. If you do it in an arid location such as the desert, it will take you to hell.

Edit: If I find the article I will post.

[zabuza666]

Tell me where and when you're doing it so I can mug you during your out-of-body experience

[~primetime~]

My bad, I thought you were putting words in my mouth as opposed to the usual ***** that goes in there.
umm...say what?

I just don't know how to take this comment pete...:lol






*PM me if you need my *****

[lefthook00]

the strength may not matter here...:confusedshrug:

just the different effects maybe?

from what I am reading, it doesn't look like DMT has been proven to give an NDE...although it looks like there is a great difference between endogenous DMT, and "man-made DMT"...or senthetic DMT, whatever...

people who have NDEs do not describe them as horrific hallucinations at all...or anything like that really...in fact I have never read of a person having an NDE claim it was a hallucination...


anyone here done kentamine?

Ketamine is cat tranquilizer. A lot of people do it at raves. It kind of feels like a super super super weed mixed with lean or oxycontin...kind of...you "fall" into a "k-hole" and you feel crazy, you get "stuck" and it's hard to move or snap out of it.

[~primetime~]

Ketamine is cat tranquilizer. A lot of people do it at raves. It kind of feels like a super super super weed mixed with lean or oxycontin...kind of...you "fall" into a "k-hole" and you feel crazy, you get "stuck" and it's hard to move or snap out of it.
you have done it?

did you ever leave your body?

like you were able to float around and see things where your body was not located?...or even look at your body from the outside?

[Hazard]

Tell me where and when you're doing it so I can mug you during your out-of-body experience
Whether I'm in or out of my body, I would still **** you up.

[Lebowsky]

Ketamine is cat tranquilizer. A lot of people do it at raves. It kind of feels like a super super super weed mixed with lean or oxycontin...kind of...you "fall" into a "k-hole" and you feel crazy, you get "stuck" and it's hard to move or snap out of it.

It feels nothing like you described, at least in my experience. A low dose felt like being extremely drunk while mildly hallucinating, mostly altered vision and weird sense of touch. A medium dose felt way to intense for my liking, nothing like the previous time. It was full hallucinating in all senses for a long time, feeling physically separated from your limbs/brain, numb and weird, a totally out of control experience. Very overwhelming, to be honest.

[Quata]

It feels nothing like you described, at least in my experience. A low dose felt like being extremely drunk while mildly hallucinating, mostly altered vision and weird sense of touch. A medium dose felt way to intense for my liking, nothing like the previous time. It was full hallucinating in all senses for a long time, feeling physically separated from your limbs/brain, numb and weird, a totally out of control experience. Very overwhelming, to be honest.
Sounds like quaaludes :)

[Lebowsky]

Sounds like quaaludes :)

Haven't tried them, I'm not into hallucinogenic stuff anymore. I bought a san pedro some 6 years ago and I don't think I'll ever use it, at least not in the near future. Plus I've grown to have affection for that mother****er, it'd feel sad to cut it.

[~primetime~]

It feels nothing like you described, at least in my experience. A low dose felt like being extremely drunk while mildly hallucinating, mostly altered vision and weird sense of touch. A medium dose felt way to intense for my liking, nothing like the previous time. It was full hallucinating in all senses for a long time, feeling physically separated from your limbs/brain, numb and weird, a totally out of control experience. Very overwhelming, to be honest.
were you literaly out of your body though?

[OneMoreSucka]

were you literaly out of your body though?
No one is literally out of their body while on drugs.

[~primetime~]

No one is literally out of their body while on drugs.
some claim to be...

[OneMoreSucka]

some claim to be...
It's a drug for a reason, of course they're going to have outrageous shit happen in their mind

[Lebowsky]

were you literaly out of your body though?

Not as you probably imagine it. I didn't see myself visually from an outside perspective if that's what you're asking. However, it was all about the feeling. It felt as if my body didn't belong to me, I was but a mere spectator of my own movements. I would touch stuff and feel it, but my brain wouldn't relate the act of touching with the feeling itself. My sense of sight was heavily distorted too. It's not easy to explain.

[Abd El-Krim]

nutmeg > dmt.

[Styles p]

nutmeg > dmt.
this.

[~primetime~]

It's a drug for a reason, of course they're going to have outrageous shit happen in their mind
people can travel through the astral plane while sober...

Not as you probably imagine it. I didn't see myself visually from an outside perspective if that's what you're asking. However, it was all about the feeling. It felt as if my body didn't belong to me, I was but a mere spectator of my own movements. I would touch stuff and feel it, but my brain wouldn't relate the act of touching with the feeling itself. My sense of sight was heavily distorted too. It's not easy to explain.

yes like an OBE...apparently you didn't have one...this is interesting to me...

the relationship to DMT and kentamine to NDEs may be all rumor...


Words from other Ketamine experiencers:

These comments were taken out of context, but it gives you a sense of how similar the experiences can be. I complained to Dr. Karl Jansen (the only researcher I am aware of that is concerned specifically with Ketamine as it relates to NDEs) that the Ketamine experiences have similar qualities, but my overall impression is that they are not as profound and centered on love. He replied that the setting of the experience makes a lot of difference. Taking a recreational drug in your house is much different from being in a hospital or other sudden situation where you may be in pain or afraid that you are about to die. I agree with Dr. Jansen on this point. Here are the excerpts:

-Looooooovvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeee, Reeeaaaalllliiiiittttyyyyyyyy, Hoooommmmmeeeee.

-I was God, I saw light and warmth. This is Home. Sooo familiar, where we belong. Where we go. Everything is perfect, no words, just basic feeling. Love, Reality, Home. This was about the only words that I could bring back. Really no words there, but strong feelings. I Knew I was God and that I wasn't a little while before, but didn't have any idea what I was before. I was completely calm and comfortable, it was Home. Perfect. I wasn't alone either.

-(buzzing occured) Most of the time I felt like a pure light that could flow like lava and make sweet guitar-distortion sounds, I was burning very bright. I could just "be" in this state, it felt beautiful. Other times I would have conscious thoughts, I would note that I felt godlike, I would love myself, it was great. When I'd think of my friends I'd feel very warm, but the couple times I tried explaining to them how I was feeling (I had to get up and piss quite a few times, was still dizzy), I felt the words totally inadequate, and I'd lose the feeling.

-(Buzzing occured)Tunnel vision and a feeling of 'being deep inside your own body' occurs.
. . .reality as we normally experience it had crumbled into a different form. It was as though the world broke up, revealing another dimension. The subject was there, and not there at the same time - there was no apparent boundary between the subject and object - the world and I became one. . . . Although it was certainly an extreme experience, it was fundamentally unsatisfying. No real insight into the world, or even the experience were gained,

-Bubbles, bouncing babies and bubbles, she kept saying.
I can't feel my body anymore except this overriding general fuzziness. The lines on the cieling become a tunnel and I am flying down it faster than sound approaching the speed of light.....

-Oh no, the tunnel takes a big dive downwards! I am facing straight down this big tunnel and I am falling. . . .

-Now there are rules. I can see them all. I am outside my room looking down at us and I know all the rules. There is so much going on outside of us. Other people, other rules, other things, that we are not allowed to see in the day to day. More knowledge. Who is next to me. What is next to me. I know it is something important. I say who is there.

-One friend of mine who took it thought he had died, but he wasn't frightened or upset by this at all, which should give you some indication of just how weird things can get.

-It sort of dissociates you from your live. I drifted trough worlds of other dimensions from inside the cosmos towards the outside of the circular thing which is called the universe.(Sounds strange, but that is what I felt) I also had the feeling that I have learned a lot of spiritual things. It is perhaps truth, there was not especially much fun. But I was satisfied and content as I would be after a long adventure holiday.

-I realized then that I didn't travel between theses two worlds but only shifted my attention in a different direction. I always was and probably always will be in this world I found there, but living different lives I will enter different 'simulations'.

-I floated back with a peaceful and content feeling. I felt that I had experienced something good, something special. I was slowly entering my body, like putting on a garment: legs first, then arms, chest, head. At the same time, my sight and hearing returned as I was shifting my attention to these senses. Everything felt a bit unreal at first, but this went away after a while.

-This experience felt to me as real as anything I know from this world. Now, 3 Months later this hasn't changed. I consider this level possibly dangerous for unexperienced users, because of the strong impact it has on your life. In my case, experiencing reality as 'just a game' could have easily driven me into suicide, if I wasn't happy with this life.

They have been reported as spending a great deal of time analysing conversations that they have held with the various Ketamine entities. These beings offer great insights into life, the universe and everything. In the words of one such traveller into the realm of the hyper-real, "It is no great accomplishment to hear a voice in the head. The accomplishment is to make sure that it is telling you the truth."


^^^ can you relate to any of these comments?

[Lebowsky]

Although it was certainly an extreme experience, it was fundamentally unsatisfying. No real insight into the world, or even the experience were gained. (I would add that it was a pretty scary experience at some points, when I realised how out of your control it all was)

I can't feel my body anymore except this overriding general fuzziness.

I floated back with a peaceful and content feeling (although I wouldn't describe the feeling as peaceful and content. It was indeed peaceful, but in a numb, isolated way).

Those are the comments I can relate to the most. Mine wasn't a spiritual experience like most of those descriptions sound, it was more like a delirium.

[~primetime~]

Those are the comments I can relate to the most. Mine wasn't a spiritual experience like most of those descriptions sound, it was more like a delirium.
I am starting to think that the relationship to DMT and kentamine to an NDE are just all a bunch of bullshit...these people aren't having NDEs at all...


Dondadda and Miller need to see this thread...

if anyone else here has tried kentamine, please speak up...I want to know what you experienced...

[lefthook00]

I didn't think ketamine was that crazy. I got more of an "out of body" experience with salvia.

[artex]

try it.

[DonDadda59]

Dondadda and Miller need to see this thread...

Why? Because Lebowsky didn't have what in your expert opinion is a near death experience, even though he wasn't near death in anyway? :oldlol:

Let me ask you this- Why do so many people have common images/themes in dreams? Is it because we all go to the 'Astral Plane' while we sleep?

[~primetime~]

Why? Because Lebowsky didn't have what in your expert opinion is a near death experience, even though he wasn't near death in anyway? :oldlol:

Let me ask you this- Why do so many people have common images/themes in dreams? Is it because we all go to the 'Astral Plane' while we sleep?
(an NDE "effect")
no, because now that I read over ALL of these people's experiences with DMT and kentamine, they just are not the same experience at all...it has always been just a theory with DMT, but for some reason you had me accepting it with kentamine...but I don't anymore...because these people are not going through THIS:

The traits of a classical NDE are as follows:

-The notice of a very unpleasant sound or noise.[19]
-A sense/awareness of being dead.[17][20]
-A sense of peace, well-being and painlessness. Positive emotions. A feeling of being removed from the world.[17][21][20]
-An out-of-body experience. A perception of one’s body from an outside position. Sometimes observing doctors and nurses performing medical resuscitation efforts.[17][21][22][20]
-A "tunnel experience". A sense of moving up, or through, a passageway or staircase.[17][22][20]
-A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light. Communication with the light.[21][20]
-An intense feeling of unconditional love.[21]
-Encountering "Beings of Light", "Beings dressed in white", or other spiritual beings. Also, the possibility of being reunited with deceased loved ones.[17][21][22]
-Being given a life review.[17][21][20]
-Being presented with knowledge about one's life and the nature of the universe.[21]
-A decision by oneself or others to return to one’s body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return.[17][21][22]
-Approaching a border.[20]

-wiki


many of the things described are very similiar, and I guess that is why I fell for it...but the MAIN difference that sets them apart is the OBE factor...these people are not actually leaving their body in the same sense that an NDE would have you do...

ALSO, it is extremely rare for one to report a "horrible" NDE, but with kentamine, I am ready entire sections of horror stories...

it seems that alot of these people do claim to experience something very spiritual, but not in the sense that they all say they meet up with their dead grandmother...it just isn't the same thing IMO...

CLOSE...but no cigar


as for dreams?...I have no idea...my dreams all vary a great deal in general...dreams are nothing like NDEs or kentamine...

[~primetime~]

here Dondodda, read this stuff:

THIS is part of why I thought kentamine could do it:

Scientific Theories

*Science cannot ultimately explain why some people have near-death experiences. That's not to say that current scientific explanations are incorrect, but NDEs are complex, subjective and emotionally charged. Further, ma*ny aspects of NDEs cannot be tested. We can't run a test to determine if someone actually visited Heaven and met God or purposely take someone to the brink of death and then resuscitate them in a lab to test their out-of-body perception.

Nevertheless, medical science offers compelling evidence that many aspects of NDEs are physiological and psychological in nature. Scientists have found that the drugs ketamine and PCP can create sensations in users that are nearly identical to many NDEs. In fact, some users think they are actually dying while on the drug [ref].
"nearly identical"....but they are just not the same at all...


check this out:


Of course, this only scratches the surface of all the possible explanations for an NDE. NDEs seem to offer some hope that death is not necessarily something to be feared, nor is it the end of consciousness. Even science has a difficult time grasping death -- the medical community has struggled with specific definitions for clinical death, organ death and brain death for decades. For every aspect of an NDE, there is at least one scientific explanation for it. And for every scientific explanation, there seem to be five NDE cases that defy it.


here is this articles description of an NDE:


*Feelings of calmness - These feelings may include peacefulness, acceptance of death, emotional and physical comfort.

**Int*ense, pure bright light - Sometimes this intense (but not painful) light fills the room. In other cases, the subject sees a light that they feel represents either Heaven or God.
Out-of-body experiences (OBE) - The subject feels that he has left his body. He can look down and see it, often describing the sight of doctors working on him. In some cases, the subject's "spirit" then flies out of the room, into *the sky and sometimes into space.
Entering into another realm or dimension - Depending on the subject's religious beliefs and the nature of the experience, he may perceive this realm as Heaven or, in rare cases, as Hell.
Spirit beings - During the OBE, the subject encounters "beings of light," or other representations of spiritual entities. He may perceive these as deceased loved ones, angels, saints or God. *
*The tunnel - Many NDE subjects find themselves in a tunnel with a light at its end. They may encounter spirit beings as they pass through the tunnel.
Communication with spirits - Before the NDE ends, many subjects report some form of communication with a spirit being. This is often expressed a "strong male voice" telling them that it is not their time and to go back to their body. Some subjects report being told to choose between going into the light or returning to their earthly body. Others feel they have been compelled to return to their body by a voiceless command, possibly coming from God.
Life review - This trait is also called "the panoramic life review." The subject sees his entire life in a flashback. These can be very detailed or very brief. The subject may also perceive some form of judgment by nearby spirit entities.

^^^ this is what is reported BY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE GLOBE!!!

not just a few kids makin shit up cause they just flatlined...


I am not reading about anyone getting a life review, while on kentamine, and the OBE part is different...they don't feel like their body is their own, but they are still inside it...I have read dozens of stories of people floating throughou the rooms of entire hospitals while having an NDE...

[DonDadda59]

as for dreams?...I have no idea...my dreams all vary a great deal in general...dreams are nothing like NDEs or kentamine...

I asked about dreams since you keep bringing up the idea that thousands of people from around the world/different religions/experiences seem to have similar visions or 'journeys' as proof that they actually go to other 'deminsons'... but literally billions of people have had similar dreams of falling, flying, certain animals, etc. Is this proof that we all go to the astral plane or the 'spiritual realm' while we sleep? No, it's mental symbology that is common to all humans- it's a function of the unconscious, regardless of race, creed, etc.

It is a function of the mind, chemical releases. Which is why I find it interesting that certain chemicals produce the same results as what you think is proof of afterlife. It may not be exact- which would require lowering a person's body temperature, inducing clinical death (which doctors/nurses can and routinely do), releasing adrenaline throughout the organs which are shut down, and then introducing the hallucinogen into the person... I don't think anyone is willing to go through that for a high. But even without those conditions, simply smoking DMT has produced every one of those side-effects you listed, this is well-documented.

Now if dreams are a function of the mind and universal unconscious and billions of people experience the same symbols/stimuli and thousands of people experience the same symbols/stimuli while under the influence of hallucinogens as they do when they experience Near Death... what does that tell you?

[~primetime~]

I asked about dreams since you keep bringing up the idea that thousands of people from around the world/different religions/experiences seem to have similar visions or 'journeys' as proof that they actually go to other 'deminsons'... but literally billions of people have had similar dreams of falling, flying, certain animals, etc. Is this proof that we all go to the astral plane or the 'spiritual realm' while we sleep? No, it's mental symbology that is common to all humans- it's a function of the unconscious, regardless of race, creed, etc.

It is a function of the mind, chemical releases. Which is why I find it interesting that certain chemicals produce the same results as what you think is proof of afterlife. It may not be exact- which would require lowering a person's body temperature, inducing clinical death (which doctors/nurses can and routinely do), releasing adrenaline throughout the organs which are shut down, and then introducing the hallucinogen into the person... I don't think anyone is willing to go through that for a high. But even without those conditions, simply smoking DMT has produced every one of those side-effects you listed, this is well-documented.

Now if dreams are a function of the mind and universal unconscious and billions of people experience the same symbols/stimuli and thousands of people experience the same symbols/stimuli while under the influence of hallucinogens as they do when they experience Near Death... what does that tell you?
Don that is a horrible comparison...does every human have the same dream AND ONLY THAT SAME DREAM???...I can't even tell if you are serious anymore, or if you are just to lasy to compare it something else...

and you are wrong about smoking DMT creating all of those side effects, scientists have listed it as a theory, I have pointed it out right here in this thread...they are NOT OBEing...

if you did the slightest bit of research, (or even just read my quotes), then you would see that NDEs and what these highs are EXTREMELY different...

who here on kentamoine met dead relatives or were given a life review?...which is something 99% of all NDEers go through???

who here EVEN JUST LOOKED DOWN AT THEIR OWN BODY????...anyone???...Bueler???

they aren't the same Don...I've done enough research here to know which one is a hallucination and which one is NEVER EVER confused as a hallucination by those that have it...of the THOUSANDS of NDEers out there I have NEVER read one of them say "well maybe it wasn't real"...none of them believe that...not one!

[miller-time]

Don that is a horrible comparison...

i love this new primetime paradigm, he got shut down for a couple of analogies a few topics ago (they weren't good) and now he calls everybody out on theirs. even though they make sense. :oldlol:

anyway, i wouldn't concern myself with drug effects too much, even if dmt is produced in the brain. drugs would only be mimicking or replicating some experiences of NDE. there would be various effects created by unusual levels of neurotransmitters in the brain. but i think the cause of the problem lies in misdirected sensory information (feedback loops would also be shot) in all areas of the brain except (it seems) for the memory systems and the neo cortex.

[macmac]

When I wanna dream about something in particular, I think about it before going to sleep, and it often appears in my dream.

Guess what people who are about to die think about?

[SCREWstonRockets]

There are plenty of us in here that have never done crack, but could tell you it's effects... Actually if I wanted advice on crack, I rather hear it from somebody who's actually experienced it. Would you take sex advice from a virgin who reads about sex but never done it? Just saying......

[Kebab Stall]

the strength may not matter here...:confusedshrug:

just the different effects maybe?

from what I am reading, it doesn't look like DMT has been proven to give an NDE...although it looks like there is a great difference between endogenous DMT, and "man-made DMT"...or senthetic DMT, whatever...

people who have NDEs do not describe them as horrific hallucinations at all...or anything like that really...in fact I have never read of a person having an NDE claim it was a hallucination...


anyone here done kentamine?
I haven't read much after this post, apart from Lebowski's and someone else's post.

Anyway, I've tried ketamine (ket) once and it was pretty good. Although my friend who got it for us, said it wasn't nearly the best ket he's ever had. It made me feel very loose at first and as I took more, I just started to lose feeling in my body, most notable my legs, at one point I couldn't even feel them and I felt like I was just a hovering torso.

It also made time go very slow. I think we started taking it at about 11pm, it must have seemed like a couple of hours had passed and we were in the early hours of the next morning, it wasn't until we checked the time that only half an hour had passed.

I didn't take a lot though. I shared a gram with a friend, so originally we were going to split it and have half a gram each. I think it ended up being about 2/3rds to me and 1/3rd to him, because I got slightly addicted and just started racking up my own lines.

After about an hour, we started mixing the ket with mephedrone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephedrone), we call it mcat or meow. This drug is a party drug and makes you want to talk non stop, give you energy and make you feel good. But it was a weird feeling when mixing them. Not a bad feeling and not a good feeling, but just slightly strange and hard to explain, but I won't be doing it again.

Also, just as a side note for mephedrone. The first few times I took it, there was no come down from it, but now, I have terrible come downs from it and I feel like absolute sh!t. Also, like I said before, the drug is suppose to make you feel good, give you energy, well the first few times I took this drug, thats what I got, but now it takes away all of my energy away and makes me a completely grumpy sh!t that doesn't want to talk to anyone or even be near anyone. Which made Tuesday night a bit of bore for me, because I ended up staying up from 11am on Tuesday and not going to bed until 2am on Thursday (this morning), so I was up atleast 39 hours of which I spent most of the time doing mephedrone.

[Legend of Josh]

I was just speaking about the NDE effect, which I have spent literally weeks studing...and I can definitively say that what LOJ and Pete described (that old lady) is not an "NDE effect"...when someone has one of those it is never mistaken by that person as anything else...in other words, if you have one YOU KNOW IT...it is never a "horrific mind rape" kinda thing...

Will you just stop already. All you do is post and keep posting until the horse literally can't be beaten anymore; and then you post more. What's the definition of 'mind-rape'? There's no set definition. You can interrupt however you see fit. People who have a NDE never forget it; it's solidified in their mind clear as day. That is mind-rape. It can be positive or negative.

You keep talking about NDE's as if they're ALL some heavenly music harps in the background white lights and angels singing. They're not all in that type of environment/atmosphere. DMT sets off some chemical in your mind where you literally feel like you're minutes within your final breath. That is mind-rape.

We can agree we view and use the term mind-rape differently. We can also agree you don't really know anything on the subject minus what you're supposedly 'studied' off the 'net. Yeah, that makes you a certified 'expert'.

SMFH

:rolleyes:

[Legend of Josh]

Ketamine is cat tranquilizer. A lot of people do it at raves. It kind of feels like a super super super weed mixed with lean or oxycontin...kind of...you "fall" into a "k-hole" and you feel crazy, you get "stuck" and it's hard to move or snap out of it.

Back many years ago when I did xtc, we would cap it off with some special k (ketamine). You heat it, grind it, snort it. IMO, very different from DMT.

[Lebowsky]

Don that is a horrible comparison...does every human have the same dream AND ONLY THAT SAME DREAM???...I can't even tell if you are serious anymore, or if you are just to lasy to compare it something else...

and you are wrong about smoking DMT creating all of those side effects, scientists have listed it as a theory, I have pointed it out right here in this thread...they are NOT OBEing...

if you did the slightest bit of research, (or even just read my quotes), then you would see that NDEs and what these highs are EXTREMELY different...

who here on kentamoine met dead relatives or were given a life review?...which is something 99% of all NDEers go through???

who here EVEN JUST LOOKED DOWN AT THEIR OWN BODY????...anyone???...Bueler???

they aren't the same Don...I've done enough research here to know which one is a hallucination and which one is NEVER EVER confused as a hallucination by those that have it...of the THOUSANDS of NDEers out there I have NEVER read one of them say "well maybe it wasn't real"...none of them believe that...not one!

To be fair, I can imagine someone on ketamine seeing dead parents or going through a life review. Keep in mind that the outcome of the trip depends, as one would expect, on many factors, such as the actual dose of ketamine, the purity of the drug, the user's state mind prior to taking the drug, etc. I can picture someone in the right state of mind taking a high dose of ketamine seeing all kinds surrealistic stuff, as I already explained that my sight was heavily distorted and the biggest dose I've taken was a medium one. I don't think you can generalize when it comes to powerful hallucinogenic drugs like this. I remember a friend of mine telling me one of his experiences with it a long time ago, and he said the stuff took him to a dark, warm place, where he was floating in an undetermined liquid. He said that, somehow, he felt he was back in his mother's womb.

[~primetime~]

Will you just stop already. All you do is post and keep posting until the horse literally can't be beaten anymore; and then you post more. What's the definition of 'mind-rape'? There's no set definition. You can interrupt however you see fit. People who have a NDE never forget it; it's solidified in their mind clear as day. That is mind-rape. It can be positive or negative.

You keep talking about NDE's as if they're ALL some heavenly music harps in the background white lights and angels singing. They're not all in that type of environment/atmosphere. DMT sets off some chemical in your mind where you literally feel like you're minutes within your final breath. That is mind-rape.

We can agree we view and use the term mind-rape differently. We can also agree you don't really know anything on the subject minus what you're supposedly 'studied' off the 'net. Yeah, that makes you a certified 'expert'.

SMFH

:rolleyes:
like 99% of NDEs are this:

The traits of a classical NDE are as follows:

-The notice of a very unpleasant sound or noise.[19]
-A sense/awareness of being dead.[17][20]
-A sense of peace, well-being and painlessness. Positive emotions. A feeling of being removed from the world.[17][21][20]
-An out-of-body experience. A perception of one

[~primetime~]

To be fair, I can imagine someone on ketamine seeing dead parents or going through a life review. Keep in mind that the outcome of the trip depends, as one would expect, on many factors, such as the actual dose of ketamine, the purity of the drug, the user's state mind prior to taking the drug, etc. I can picture someone in the right state of mind taking a high dose of ketamine seeing all kinds surrealistic stuff, as I already explained that my sight was heavily distorted and the biggest dose I've taken was a medium one. I don't think you can generalize when it comes to powerful hallucinogenic drugs like this. I remember a friend of mine telling me one of his experiences with it a long time ago, and he said the stuff took him to a dark, warm place, where he was floating in an undetermined liquid. He said that, somehow, he felt he was back in his mother's womb.
the fact that the outcome varies so greatly for person to person tells me enough though...

it seems like all the stories I am reading on kentamine trips vary a great deal, where as every NDE is exactly the same...

it looks like you can get a spiritual awakining of some sort from the stuff, but the experiences are just different...

[~primetime~]

Actually if I wanted advice on crack, I rather hear it from somebody who's actually experienced it. Would you take sex advice from a virgin who reads about sex but never done it? Just saying......
I would take advice on either subject from a doctor or scientist...ever heard of Dr. Ruth?...she is no porn star...

honestly the last person I would want crack advice from is a damn crack head...

that being said I am taking what Lebowski and others are sayng about the stuff very seriously...

[DonDadda59]

More homework for Primetime, something new for you to become an expert in:

Atheist becomes convinced he is God due to epileptic seizures (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg&NR=1)

^Clearly this is absolute proof that this man is God, not a hallucination because he doesn't believe it is. I'll be the first to build an alter to him :bowdown:

[~primetime~]

More homework for Primetime, something new for you to become an expert in:

Atheist becomes convinced he is God due to epileptic seizures (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg&NR=1)

^Clearly this is absolute proof that this man is God, not a hallucination because he doesn't believe it is. I'll be the first to build an alter to him :bowdown:
so you are just going to compleely ignore everything and throw out a single isolated case of an epileptic that thinks he is God?...or dreams?

alright, I guess we are done...

I am also guessing you now can see the clear difference between an NDE and the highs these drugs give...and just refuse to acknowledge that they are very different...or maybe not, I am starting to think I have misjudged you as a poster all together...

[DonDadda59]

so you are just going to compleely ignore everything and throw out a single isolated case of an epileptic that thinks he is God?...or dreams?

alright, I guess we are done...

I am also guessing you now can see the clear difference between an NDE and the highs these drugs give...and just refuse to acknowledge that they are very different...or maybe not, I am starting to think I have misjudged you as a poster all together...

There's many cases similar to that kid's, it's not an isolated case. As the doctor in the video said, it's common amongst those with epilepsy in the temporal lobe. And since the kid is convinced it wasn't a series of hallucinations, it's proof. He is God and you should pledge your undying devotion to him before he smites you from above.

And the 'clear difference' between supposed NDEs and say smoking DMT is that the person isn't going through cardiac arrest or induced clinical death. But despite this, the common experience of going through 'tunnels of light', seeing beings or dieties made of light, hearing a persistent noise, seeing dead loved ones, life reviews/spiritual journeys, seeing 'Heaven' and 'Hell', and out of body experiences have ALL been reported by DMT smokers... Joe Rogan alone filled up like 80% of the criteria :oldlol:

But you want to dismiss it because it doesn't vibe with your 'research' that leads you to believe you are God and you 'chose' to be incarnated the way you were, yadda yadda yadda.

And a study on lucid dreamers was done were many reported out of body experiences, where they floated above their bodies and were able to travel and view their surroundings, etc (way too long to post):

http://www.lucidity.com/NL32.OBEandLD.html

And we all know the visions people see while undergoing sleep paralysis proves the existence of Ghosts, UFOs, Elvis still being alive (?), since those people are convinced they are not dreaming... so it must be real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

But I'm sure all of your laboratory research already confirmed these things as 100% real. Great work :applause:

[~primetime~]

There's many cases similar to that kid's, it's not an isolated case. As the doctor in the video said, it's common amongst those with epilepsy in the temporal lobe. And since the kid is convinced it wasn't a series of hallucinations, it's proof. He is God and you should pledge your undying devotion to him before he smites you from above.

And the 'clear difference' between supposed NDEs and say smoking DMT is that the person isn't going through cardiac arrest or induced clinical death. But despite this, the common experience of going through 'tunnels of light', seeing beings or dieties made of light, hearing a persistent noise, seeing dead loved ones, life reviews/spiritual journeys, seeing 'Heaven' and 'Hell', and out of body experiences have ALL been reported by DMT smokers... Joe Rogan alone filled up like 80% of the criteria :oldlol:

But you want to dismiss it because it doesn't vibe with your 'research' that leads you to believe you are God and you 'chose' to be incarnated the way you were, yadda yadda yadda.

And a study on lucid dreamers was done were many reported out of body experiences, where they floated above their bodies and were able to travel and view their surroundings, etc (way too long to post):

http://www.lucidity.com/NL32.OBEandLD.html

And we all know the visions people see while undergoing sleep paralysis proves the existence of Ghosts, UFOs, Elvis still being alive (?), since those people are convinced they are not dreaming... so it must be real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

But I'm sure all of your laboratory research already confirmed these things as 100% real. Great work :applause:
"tunnel vision" is not the same as actually travelling through a tunnel...that stood out to me too as something that seems similar but is not the same...I think I have experienced things similiar to that just doing acid...

could you please show me one example of someone meeting dead relatives or getting a life review while on DMT though?...everything that I read comparing NDEs to DMT is stating it as theory, not fact, like you are doing.

the lucid dream sudy was from 91, and I already know about astral plane travels while in sleep...it happens but is not an NDE, if they had an NDE while asleep then they must have had a heart attack or something as well...

epileptic kids and lucid dreams/ UFOs/ Elvis/ ect should be kept out of this IMO, we are comparing DMT and kentamine to an NDE, not to anything else...I don't know why you keep bringing that stuff up at all...if EVERYONE that dreams has a lucid dream about Elvis then OK, I will look into it, maybe Elvis is God at that point...but that isn't the case...

[DirtBag]

http://www.youtube.com/user/SetYouFreee#p/c/C4F0B2A3323AD50B/0/CObvdiRnFAQ

Man who got inoperable brain tumor, Lives to talk about his NDE today

[Fallguy20]

I tired it a few times... it will mind-rape you. Never... ever... again.


wow... coming from you that actually means alot.

im intrigued.

[DirtBag]

How did this thread go from drugs to near death experiences?

primetime

[EroticVanilla]

wow... coming from you that actually means alot.

im intrigued.
If your interested about it, you can read some info here (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml). Here (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_chemistry1.shtml) is a guide to synthesize it, though it is pretty difficult to do, which is the main reason that DMT is hard to find.

[Fallguy20]

If your interested about it, you can read some info here (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml). Here (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_chemistry1.shtml) is a guide to synthesize it, though it is pretty difficult to do, which is the main reason that DMT is hard to find.

Intrigued, but still not going to do it personally unless ive tested it on some lab rats first or something.

[EroticVanilla]

Intrigued, but still not going to do it personally unless ive tested it on some lab rats first or something.
You can also make ayahuasca (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ayahuasca/ayahuasca.shtml), which is basically a concoction to that allows you to eat/drink a plant containing DMT. Normally DMT is destroyed by in the digestion process, but if you have an MAOI (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/) you can eat it. Though I should mention that MAOI's are pretty dangerous, if you decided to go this route you would need to read about what foods (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info2.shtml) drugs (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info3.shtml) to avoid, along with any other side effects (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info1.shtml)

[Norcaliblunt]

I've done it all. From DMT to Ketamine, from acid to shrooms, from mescaline to salvia, everything but PCP itself, and I have to say the stuff that messed me up the worst, and made me have a NDE was DXM from cold pills. I literally saw my life flash before my eyes and felt like I was dead, seeing family and people I've known over the years, along with me as a child. Maybe it was because I almost did die, who knows. But my drug induced NDE wasn't all good at all, it was very scary. Extreme overdosage on cough and cold pills will mind rape you.

[~primetime~]

http://www.youtube.com/user/SetYouFreee#p/c/C4F0B2A3323AD50B/0/CObvdiRnFAQ

Man who got inoperable brain tumor, Lives to talk about his NDE today
just listened to the first 3 parts...will listen to all 12 while working today

this story has amazing so far...I don't expect any others of you to listen to this guy, because you don't care like I do...but this man claims to be able to have NDEs at will, and is one of the most studied cases ever...

he has brought back great information of light nad atoms, helped out famous scientists in that feild, and even invented a new kind of microscope that uses light to study cells...

all of it is documented...by famed scientists even...

some of what he says is 100% on par with all the oither NDEs...he does claim to have a watcher (a gaurdian angel so to speak) and that we all have a spirit that guides us through life...



I would say this deserves it's own thread but I don't think anyone other than me will listen to it all...2 hours long in all

[EroticVanilla]

I've done it all. From DMT to Ketamine, from acid to shrooms, from mescaline to salvia, everything but PCP itself, and I have to say the stuff that messed me up the worst, and made me have a NDE was DXM from cold pills. I literally saw my life flash before my eyes and felt like I was dead, seeing family and people I've known over the years, along with me as a child. Maybe it was because I almost did die, who knows. But my drug induced NDE wasn't all good at all, it was very scary. Extreme overdosage on cough and cold pills will mind rape you.
Yea, benadryl (chemical name diphenhydramine (http://www.erowid.org/pharms/diphenhydramine/diphenhydramine.shtml)) and DXM is a potent drug combo. Diphenhydramine is a Deliriant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliriant) which is the strongest type of hallucinogen and DXM is a dissociative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative) (which includes drugs like Ketamine and PCP). Here (http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=9189) is someones story about it. I also posted a story about trying it when I was 14-15 on the first page of this thread.

[~primetime~]

I've done it all. From DMT to Ketamine, from acid to shrooms, from mescaline to salvia, everything but PCP itself, and I have to say the stuff that messed me up the worst, and made me have a NDE was DXM from cold pills. I literally saw my life flash before my eyes and felt like I was dead, seeing family and people I've known over the years, along with me as a child. Maybe it was because I almost did die, who knows. But my drug induced NDE wasn't all good at all, it was very scary. Extreme overdosage on cough and cold pills will mind rape you.
the life flashing does sound just like an NDE, and going back in time, even intot the future in alot of cases, except it is very rare for someone to report it as scary or "not good at all"...

did you have an OBE?...an out of body experience?

did you see a great light?

spirits?

anything else you can add?

[EroticVanilla]

Read my post PT, it wasn't a NDE, because obviously to feel that you need to be near death. He probably didn't even over-dose, what he described goes right in line with how it was for me when I did it at 14 and what the Erowid link to the other guy says the experience was like.

[~primetime~]

Read my post PT, it wasn't a NDE, because obviously to feel that you need to be near death. He probably didn't even over-dose, what he described goes right in line with how it was for me when I did it at 14 and what the Erowid link to the other guy says the experience was like.
yeah, the more I study this the more it becomes obvious that these drugs do not cause an NDE, but rather just similiar effects to what an NDEer might explain...

they are not the same though...

they nay-sayers will always use these drugs as some kind of debunking tool though...but they just simply are not the same at all.

[DirtBag]

just listened to the first 3 parts...will listen to all 12 while working today

this story has amazing so far...I don't expect any others of you to listen to this guy, because you don't care like I do...but this man claims to be able to have NDEs at will, and is one of the most studied cases ever...

he has brought back great information of light nad atoms, helped out famous scientists in that feild, and even invented a new kind of microscope that uses light to study cells...

all of it is documented...by famed scientists even...

some of what he says is 100% on par with all the oither NDEs...he does claim to have a watcher (a gaurdian angel so to speak) and that we all have a spirit that guides us through life...



I would say this deserves it's own thread but I don't think anyone other than me will listen to it all...2 hours long in all

Yea I was hooked man, I'm almost done with all 12. I was just gonna pm you since I know you like this kind of stuff but figured I'd still get it out if anyone else wanted to listen. Lotta lurkers out there. The girl who claimed to be her mothers father was pretty crazy.

[Norcaliblunt]

the life flashing does sound just like an NDE, and going back in time, even intot the future in alot of cases, except it is very rare for someone to report it as scary or "not good at all"...

did you have an OBE?...an out of body experience?

did you see a great light?

spirits?

anything else you can add?


Everything was in dark dreamlike tunnel vision. Completely random people and family from my life, and different events I've lived were popping up. I even saw myself as a child. The OBE was more like being completely taken out of my physical presence over into this dreamlike state. It wasn't an OBE where you float up and see yourself in present reality and everything going on around you. I was by myself (in reality) for a portion of the experience, than my friend came in the room and started saying my name. His voice sounded so far away and was echoing. It was trippy as hell, that's right when I snapped out of it, and than was just in a drugged out hallucinogenic state, feeling all messed up.

It wasn't necessarily scary while going through it, but when it was all over it definitely left me feeling very weirded out, and had me terrified at what I had just experienced

[Jackass18]

It seems to me that PT wants to dismiss everything that goes against an NDE.

[~primetime~]

It seems to me that PT wants to dismiss everything that goes against an NDE.
not true at all, in fact at the begining of this thread and before this thread was made I was pretty much convinced that DMT and kentamine could produce an NDE effect, or an actual NDE...

it was this thread that made me do the extra research to realize that they don't, (unless you were to actually OD).

I can see why they are compared though...

the effects sound the same but they are not the same:

-extreme tunnel vision, gets confused with actually travelling down a tunnel
-feeling as though your body is not your own, gets confused with actually leaving your body
-recalling people and places from your past, gets confused with witnessing your entire history from the outside, including the future...as though you are a spectator seeing it from the outside...
-ect, ect, ect

the MAIN difference though, which is very obvious right away, is that when the peoplethat have used these drugs explain what it is they went through, they do not have the same overwhelming feeling of love and lose the fear of death, ect...

people that have NDEs KNOW what they went through was real...they speak as though they are 100% sure of it...ALLL OF THEM too, not just most of them, I have yet to read a single NDE in which the person thought it was a dream or "trip" of some sort...

the people that use these drugs?...alot of them are not pleasent...most of them are fully aware that it was a drug trip, and even though many will say it was spiritual, they do so in the same way that peyote is said to be spiritual...

I am not trying to just "not accept" things here....I am looking at this with clear eyes...they simply are not the same at all, they just sound similiar at first.

[~primetime~]

people should listen to part 5...because this man claims to have seen the future very clearly and alot of respected and famed scientists take this man's words seriously...

"fantasy writers are more acurate about the future than any prophet has been"

"there is no 'end time', no 'end of the world', we transform into completely different creatures, and the transformation is begining right now"

"there is no purpose to life, the purpose is just to exist, life is what you want it to be, the purpose of life is up to you"

"people who have NDEs lose their fear of death, because they realize right away that they have always existed and always will exist"


^^^ some quotes from him in that part...

[Jackass18]

people that have NDEs KNOW what they went through was real...they speak as though they are 100% sure of it...ALLL OF THEM too, not just most of them, I have yet to read a single NDE in which the person thought it was a dream or "trip" of some sort...

the people that use these drugs?...alot of them are not pleasent...most of them are fully aware that it was a drug trip, and even though many will say it was spiritual, they do so in the same way that peyote is said to be spiritual...

Why are you trying to compare them in that regard? I have trouble believing that every single person that experienced an NDE thought it was real. I can see an ordeal like that causing many to believe they really went through it, but all?

[~primetime~]

Why are you trying to compare them in that regard? I have trouble believing that every single person that experienced an NDE thought it was real. I can see an ordeal like that causing many to believe they really went through it, but all?
oh well I am sure there are a few that question how real it was, I just have never come across one, and I have been reading about NDEs pretty regularly for a couple years now...I feel like I have a very good grasp on what happens to these people...

in fact, I have never even heard of an NDEer consider the idea of it not being "real"...if they are ever told that they might have had a "brain trip" so to speak their normal responce is something along the lines of "no I didn't, you don't understand, I have been to this place before, it was very familiar to me"...

they would tell you that life here on Earth is more like a brain trip than where they were at...

the reason I was comparing them in to these drugs is because all the NDE debunkers and nay-sayers constantly bring these drugs up as though they do the same exact thing. WEb sites will also bring them up and say things like "it is theorized that the drug DMT and kentamine can cause a NDE effect but it is not proven blah blah blah..."

I did a decent amount of reading about these drugs for a few days and after a couple posters here kept taking about them I just kind of accepted that these drugs can cause an NDE...

HOWEVER after this thread came along I really dug into it, and have come to realize that NO...you can not give someone an "NDE effect" from taking these drugs...they sound very similiar when talking about them, so I can see why they would get confused, but they are not the same at all...

[DirtBag]

I think the two are very similiar it seems that when we have a NDE it's easier to understand without the body there to mess it up. With DMT it seems that we could probably get to the same place but with our physical bodies intact making it much harder to process, but I still think if one was disciplined enough they could probably get some kind of understanding out of it. Much like Terrance McKenna asked the Mushroom trips for things he didn't know about so he could see if it was him or the mushroom giving the answers or even the people that drink Ayahuasca in the Amazon. Those people go through many "trips" to be able to make sense of it, also use guides and become guides to the other side aswell..

[lefthook00]

I've done it all. From DMT to Ketamine, from acid to shrooms, from mescaline to salvia, everything but PCP itself, and I have to say the stuff that messed me up the worst, and made me have a NDE was DXM from cold pills. I literally saw my life flash before my eyes and felt like I was dead, seeing family and people I've known over the years, along with me as a child. Maybe it was because I almost did die, who knows. But my drug induced NDE wasn't all good at all, it was very scary. Extreme overdosage on cough and cold pills will mind rape you.

Really? Did you take the Triple-C's(Cordicin) or did you extract it and concentrate it first? I've taken a LOT of cold pills(over a dozen) at once, and I just felt kinda drunk and wobbly. I thought you have to ingest a crazy amount of DXM to get those crazy NDE's and hallucinations...

[miller-time]

"it is theorized that the drug DMT and kentamine can cause a NDE effect but it is not proven blah blah blah..."

don't you mean ketamine? what is kentamine? do you have a source for that?

and i've said it before, i think drug comparisons are irrelevent too.

but there is a point to be made. even if drugs could induce a NDE or something similar it does not mean that a NDE is a purely chemical process. inversley however just because drugs don't produce identical effects as NDE does not mean that NDE's are anything more than a chemical process either.

at best right now i'd say drugs like DMT only mimic some effects of a NDE. the effects may or may not be located in the same places a NDE might occur.

[DeuceWallaces]

How did this thread go from drugs to near death experiences?

Because PT is an idiot and loves to talk about shit he knows nothing about; which is pretty much everything.

[~primetime~]

don't you mean ketamine? what is kentamine? do you have a source for that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_death_experience#Biological_analysis_and_theo ries
right there in wiki, top two paragraphs

also, if you were to google "DMT NDE"...or "ketamine NDE" you would get many articles relateing them...


and i've said it before, i think drug comparisons are irrelevent too.

but there is a point to be made. even if drugs could induce a NDE or something similar it does not mean that a NDE is a purely chemical process. inversley however just because drugs don't produce identical effects as NDE does not mean that NDE's are anything more than a chemical process either.

at best right now i'd say drugs like DMT only mimic some effects of a NDE. the effects may or may not be located in the same places a NDE might occur.
I agree with all of this...:cheers:

glad you see it that way, and for the record, before this thread I was a full beliver that these drugs could produce an actual NDE effect, however I didn't think it really proved anything one way or the other...

[miller-time]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_death_experience#Biological_analysis_and_theo ries
right there in wiki, top two paragraphs

also, if you were to google "DMT NDE"...or "ketamine NDE" you would get many articles relateing them...

but you keep spelling ketamine "kentamine" with an n in there. that's all i meant.

[LA KB24]

Tried plenty of substances from opiates, to benzos, to stimulants, etc but I've never actually tried any hallucinogens. I want to try shrooms, then LSD, then maybe I'll try this DMT stuff.

[~primetime~]

but you keep spelling ketamine "kentamine" with an n in there. that's all i meant.
oh with the link that is what you ment?

yeah I was just spelling it wrong...obviously...lol

[Jackass18]

the reason I was comparing them in to these drugs is because all the NDE debunkers and nay-sayers constantly bring these drugs up as though they do the same exact thing. WEb sites will also bring them up and say things like "it is theorized that the drug DMT and kentamine can cause a NDE effect but it is not proven blah blah blah..."

I know why you're comparing them, but I'm wondering why you're comparing them in that aspect. People thinking they were real experiences doesn't convince me. I wouldn't go either way until I experienced it myself. Not that I want an NDE.

[~primetime~]

I know why you're comparing them, but I'm wondering why you're comparing them in that aspect. People thinking they were real experiences doesn't convince me. I wouldn't go either way until I experienced it myself. Not that I want an NDE.
the aspect of NDEers thinking they are real and the users of these drugs not really thinking so?

it is just the first obvious thing I notice right off the bat when I read stories of each...that's all the common user of these drugs doesn't sound anything like an NDE...infact just in here a few have already said it was a bad experience, rather than the peaceful/calm/loving/ect experience of an NDE...

and I was comparing all the effects as well, and while they sound similiar they are not quite the same..."tunnel vision" vs. "going down a dark worm hole tunnel"...ect

[Jackass18]

Drug users go in knowing that those hallucinations aren't real. You don't really have that for NDEs. People take drugs for their effects, but who tries to have an NDE? That's an unexpected mind****.

I never really ****ed with Special K that much and have only been in a K-hole once, but that was long ago so I don't remember it that well. From what I remember, I was 'stuck' and everything around me seemed surreal. Yes, probably not all that like an NDE, but then again, I've never experienced one.

[~primetime~]

Drug users go in knowing that those hallucinations aren't real. You don't really have that for NDEs. People take drugs for their effects, but who tries to have an NDE? That's an unexpected mind****.
true, maybe that aspect doesn't seem like a big deal for that reason, but if you have read as many of their stories as I have you would see that not only do these people "KNOW" what they went through was real, but they also describe it as a place that is very familiar to them, like right away they understand this was where they were before they came here...idk, the stories are just drasticly different in some aspects...and then sound very similiar in others...

but you're right, maybe the thinking of it being real shouldn't be the main aspect of comparison...

I never really ****ed with Special K that much and have only been in a K-hole once, but that was long ago so I don't remember it that well. From what I remember, I was 'stuck' and everything around me seemed surreal.
the "k-hole" effect I am seeing is also getting confused with OBEs...out of bodies...

here is how wiki explains the k-hole effect:


Ketamine produces a dissociative state, characterised by a sense of detachment from one's physical body and the external world which is known as depersonalization and derealization.[77] At sufficiently high doses (e.g. 150 mg intramuscular), users may experience what is coined the "K-hole", a state of dissociation whose effects are thought to mimic the phenomenology of schizophrenia.[78] Users may experience worlds or dimensions that are ineffable, all the while being completely unaware of their individual identities or the external world. Users have reported intense hallucinations including visual hallucinations, perceptions of falling, fast and gradual movement and flying, 'seeing God', feeling connected to other users, objects and the cosmos, experiencing psychotic reactions, and shared hallucinations, and thoughts with adjacent users. John C. Lilly,[79] Marcia Moore[80] and D. M. Turner[81] (among others) have written extensively about their own spiritual/psychonautic use of ketamine. (Both Moore[82] and Turner[83] died prematurely in a way that has been linked to their ketamine use.)

"depersonalization and derealization" could easily get confused with leaving your body...an OBE...but it isn't that...it is just a feeling of everything being fake from what I am understanding..."surreal" as you put it

the studies those guys did, where they reported to be able to share hallucinations together sounds interesting though...might have to look into those guys stories. Looks like both of them actually died from using ketamine too much....wow

[blacknapalm]

Really? Did you take the Triple-C's(Cordicin) or did you extract it and concentrate it first? I've taken a LOT of cold pills(over a dozen) at once, and I just felt kinda drunk and wobbly. I thought you have to ingest a crazy amount of DXM to get those crazy NDE's and hallucinations...

that's one of the dumbest ways to go about it. you can buy straight dxm pills. pain in the ass to swallow, haven't it done it in years. don't do triple c's though. there's acetaminophen in there and other stuff that just plunders your liver.

btw, hopefully most know that DMT and DXM are on different ends of the spectrum. DMT is shorter, more abstract but probably more intense. for most DMT is gonna be more intense than acid and salvia.

now depending on how much you take of DXM, it can be pretty introspective and dreamy. it's also a dissociative. from my experience, concrete things such as time, space become more surreal. when i used to take it, time was loopy as hell, lol. it either felt like 20 minutes passed in 5 minutes or vice versa. yes, it is related to ketamine but they have slight differences in physiology. it's not a party drug at all (unless maybe you plan on taking a low dose with a significant other), definitely not something that would be conducive to being out in public. it also lasts for around 4 hours.

http://www.lycaeum.org/psychonaut/http://www.lycaeum.org/psychonaut/

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs.old/synthetics/dxm/faq/contents.html

i did my fair share of drugs in my younger days. i used to spend weekends reading erowid. remember to educate yourself....go slowly up on any DXM tier you're thinking about doing. give it time and remember you can always dose up, you can't dose down without vomiting. DXM is no f'n fun when you take too much.

use your head, you can learn about yourself if you go about doing it the right way.

[EroticVanilla]

^^^ Good post, Educate the public on "responsible" drug use. Along with the lycaeum (http://www.lycaeum.org/) links you posted, I'll also throw Erowid (http://www.erowid.org/) out there as a good website to use and gain some knowledge about what your doing, if you plan on ever delving into harder drugs.

Edit: If anyone has tried and "2c" drug (like 2c-i, 2c-e, 2c-b etc.) I'b be interested in hearing about your experience.

[blacknapalm]

^^^ Good post, Educate the public on "responsible" drug use. Along with the lycaeum (http://www.lycaeum.org/) links you posted, I'll also throw Erowid (http://www.erowid.org/) out there as a good website to use and gain some knowledge about what your doing, if you plan on ever delving into harder drugs.

Edit: If anyone has tried and "2c" drug (like 2c-i, 2c-e, 2c-b etc.) I'b be interested in hearing about your experience.

thanks. just trying to join in. and lefthook, i wasn't pinpointing you there about the triple c's. i would just avoid that method completely. it was all the rage when i was in high school. i believe robitussin has 15 mg dxm pills (might be better options in your state but they pulled many 30 mg versions) OTC. it might be suspicious if you buy two though...

as far as the 'surreal' feeling, it's not so much things being fake as it is just, your mind is thinking in a different way. time becomes such an abstract concept that it becomes difficult to grasp. that's what allows you to get really introspective because your thoughts are so flowing and random. you realize what you're doing for the most part though. i didn't get into any hardcore hallucinations bc i never went above lower tier 4. i did get tracers and shadows. i was comfortable there. DXM can also be good with music, mostly trance-like in my experience. motor control gets pretty off in higher doses and everybody is different. for example, my friend seemed to talk just fine but i had some serious trouble getting words out. i could picture it in my head, but it came out so disconnected, slow and slurred. everyone is gonna react differently.