Russell Westbrook is right now better Derrick Rose

[LebrickJames84']

I've said this since opening night. Now that they are both in the playoffs playing the best defense in both division. Westbrook is hands down more impressive. Westbrook actually playmakes and get his stats when the game is close. Rose is the exact opposite he does his work when the game is out of reach.


Rose is a nice player ... IMO he is better than westbrook.

Looks like unbiased posters are starting to see this. There was a play in game 2 tonight that Westbrook straight jumped out of the gym mid-way in the second quarter, got his head at rim. It looked like he jumped of a trampoline, someone link that if you find it.

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/russell-westbrook-ok2.jpg

[airchibundo507]

The Cavs are a much better defensive team than the Lakers. I'm sure Rose would sh*t on Fisher, too.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Rose IMO, is more of a franchise player. He has led the Bulls pretty admirably. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a great playmaker, but he's one of the best scoring point guards. Westbrook has really surprised me, he's also very athletic, an excellent penetrator, a very good rebounder for a PG and he's becoming a good playmaker himself.

By the way, I've asked you this before, but you never answer. Is that you in your avatar?

[Derek Zoolander]

fact. whos that girl in your avatar btw? Shes really ugly.


Westbrook is a better athlete than Rose

[Go Getter]

The Cavs are a much better defensive team than the Lakers. I'm sure Rose would sh*t on Fisher, too.This.^


Rose has hit big buckets for the Bulls all year long I don't see where you are getting the fatuous satement that he doesn't hit big shots.


Also, Rose is third...>THIRD in the league amoung PG's in shooting percentage [I don't count CP3 he didn't pklay enough].

Add that to the fact that Rose is the #1 option on offense.

Throw in the fact that Westbrook shoots around 40% from the field while he isn't even gameplanned for because he has the league leading scorer on his team.

Not to knock RW's game because he is a beast but put in the same position as Rose RW would fail miserably.....he'd shoot like 20% from the field:roll:

[Batz]

Yeah, he absolutely abusing the defense of an 80 year old Zombie and some random white kid. :banana:

[LebrickJames84']

Rose IMO, is more of a franchise player. He has led the Bulls pretty admirably. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a great playmaker, but he's one of the best scoring point guards. Westbrook has really surprised me, he's also very athletic, an excellent penetrator, a very good rebounder for a PG and he's becoming a good playmaker himself.

By the way, I've asked you this before, but you never answer. Is that you in your avatar?

With the last question i can tell you don't reside that much in the OTC, or you would know it is poster DueceWallaces.

Totally agree Rose maybe franchise player, however i would rather have a Wesbrook as the 2nd option making plays for my team. Then have Rose as the franchise player and 1st option being a subpar play making PG in terms of passing.

[HisAirness3]

At what? Reading?

[Go Getter]

Westbrook is a better athlete than Rose


What do you base this off of?

[airchibundo507]

What do you base this off of?

bias.

[Go Getter]

With the last question i can tell you don't reside that much in the OTC, or you would know it is poster DueceWallaces.

Totally agree Rose maybe franchise player, however i would rather have a Wesbrook as the 2nd option making plays for my team. Then have Rose as the franchise player and 1st option being a subpar play making PG in terms of passing.


Rose would be able to make more plays if he had the scoring champion on his team :hammerhead:

The Thunder are way more talented offensively than the BUlls so of course RW looks like the better playmaker.

[Go Getter]

Can someone please post the gifs of Rose dunking Dragic and the alley-oop he caught from John Salmons? OR what about that two handed dunk he had on the Thunder the game after he dunked Dragic where 3 OKC players [including RW] just looked at each other as to say, "I ain't jumping with that man."


These guys need their memories refreshed.

[ShaqAttack3234]

With the last question i can tell you don't reside that much in the OTC, or you would know it is poster DueceWallaces.

Yeah, I don't post there much. I'm guessing there was a big thread where a lot of guys clowned on him because of the pic?


Totally agree Rose maybe franchise player, however i would rather have a

Wesbrook as the 2nd option making plays for my team. Then have Rose as the franchise player and 1st option being a subpar play making PG in terms of passing.

I do agree that Westbrook is better in the 2nd option role than Rose is in the franchise player role. I'd like to see Rose become a better passer/playmaker.

[airchibundo507]

To be fair, we haven't gotten the chance to see Rose in a second option role. I bet his assist numbers would increase if he didn't have to worry about carrying a miserable offense every given night.

[Go Getter]

Yeah, I don't post there much. I'm guessing there was a big thread where a lot of guys clowned on him because of the pic?



I do agree that Westbrook is better in the 2nd option role than Rose is in the franchise player role. I'd like to see Rose become a better passer/playmaker.


I guarantee if Rose had Durant on his team no one would be saying this.

Who can Rose pass it to?

All year the fans, coaches, and players have been telling Rose to shoot more because our personell is such that we can't score well.

You've got to understand a team's dynamics before you evaluate a player guys,

[Go Getter]

To be fair, we haven't gotten the chance to see Rose in a second option role. I bet his assist numbers would increase if he didn't have to worry about carrying a miserable offense every given night.
Give this man a prize!:applause:

[airchibundo507]

They are honestly very similar players. Very similar talents. I'd love to see the numbers Westbrook could put up without being limited by Durant.

[Go Getter]

They are honestly very similar players. Very similar talents. I'd love to see the numbers Westbrook could put up without being limited by Durant.


The thing is RW shoots such a paltry percentage from the field and the opposing teams defense doesn't key in on him night in and night out.

Common sense says that if he was the focal point of the opponents D every night his percentages would go down slightly at least and he already shoots a around 40%.

Rose shot 49% from the field this season.

[LebrickJames84']

Rose and Westbrook jumpers are very similar in terms of how well they shoot. Westbrook has a little more range though. The difference between their FG% is Westbrook takes more difficult jumpers where Rose takes most open ones. You don't see Rose taking jumpers with hand in his face, where Westbrook doesn't hestitate to take that shot.

[airchibundo507]

Rose and Westbrook jumpers are very similar in terms of how well they shoot. Westbrook has a little more range though. The difference between their FG% is Westbrook takes more difficult jumpers where Rose takes most open ones. You don't see Rose taking jumpers with hand in his face, where Westbrook doesn't hestitate to take that shot.

That shouldn't cause his FG% to dip by 9%. Rose is a first option on a team with only one shooter. Teams plan to stop Rose and not Westbrook. Since he is a slasher, defenses can load the paint in order to defend him more effectively.

[Go Getter]

Rose and Westbrook jumpers are very similar in terms of how well they shoot. Westbrook has a little more range though. The difference between their FG% is Westbrook takes more difficult jumpers where Rose takes most open ones. You don't see Rose taking jumpers with hand in his face, where Westbrook doesn't hestitate to take that shot.

Wait so Rose shoots 49% [20.8 ppg] and RW shoots 41% [16.1 ppg] and they're very similar from the field?

C'mon son, be real.

[Go Getter]

You don't see Rose taking jumpers with hand in his face, where Westbrook doesn't hestitate to take that shot.


Are you insinuating that taking shots with hands in your face is better than taking open ones?:roll:

[JimmyConway]

shit your a dumbass fcuktard lebrick... nobody pay this schmuck any attention hes obviously talking out of his asss, nobody in their right mind thinks that. go say that to ANY nba analyst ANY nba player ANY coach and theyll call you a dumbfcuk.

[LebrickJames84']

shit your a dumbass fcuktard lebrick... nobody pay this schmuck any attention hes obviously talking out of his asss, nobody in their right mind thinks that. go say that to ANY nba analyst ANY nba player ANY coach and theyll call you a dumbfcuk.

http://i43.tinypic.com/10d8awy.png

[chains5000]

The Cavs are a much better defensive team than the Lakers. I'm sure Rose would sh*t on Fisher, too.
http://hingedman.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/040513_derekfisher_vmed_8pwidec.jpg

[Undisputed]

I love watching Westbrook play. He and Durant have great chemistry, it's going to be scary to watch those two in the future. With that said, give me Rose over Westbrook on the Chicago Bulls anyday.

[bdreason]

I'll take Rose without hesitation.

I'de like to see Rose playing with guys who can stretch the court like Durant, Green, and Harden.

[Derek Zoolander]

lol stats nerds who dont watch them play judging rose as better cus his stats.

The 9% difference is only because Westbrook actually takes open 3 pointers instead of rose who passes them up. Yes westbrook cant hit the 3 very well but it is the right thing to do when left wide open and he will only improve by shooting those shots.

Rose doesn't even think about a 3 point shot. If westbrook just drove and took midrange shots he'd do as well as rose, probably better because he draws more contact with his drives, rose purposefully avoids contact, russell is more athletic than rose.

Westbrook will wind up better IMO.

He already has a season similar to prime jason kidd IN HIS SECOND YEAR.

And did you see his dunk attempt vs bynum tonight? Rose would be afraid to try that

[JimmyConway]

....ginobli sucks

[liljohnnywall]

give me john wall

[Go Getter]

lol stats nerds who dont watch them play judging rose as better cus his stats.

The 9% difference is only because Westbrook actually takes open 3 pointers instead of rose who passes them up. Yes westbrook cant hit the 3 very well but it is the right thing to do when left wide open and he will only improve by shooting those shots.

Rose doesn't even think about a 3 point shot. If westbrook just drove and took midrange shots he'd do as well as rose, probably better because he draws more contact with his drives, rose purposefully avoids contact, russell is more athletic than rose.

Westbrook will wind up better IMO.

He already has a season similar to prime jason kidd IN HIS SECOND YEAR.

And did you see his dunk attempt vs bynum tonight? Rose would be afraid to try that


Did you see Rose successfully dunk on Oden?

Your whole argument is foolish.

Westbrook shoots a lousy percentage from the field and you credit him for taking shots he can't hit at a high rate and Rose knows his limitations but you discredit him.


/convo

[thejumpa]

Westbrook is more atheltic than Rose? If I were to guess, I would say that they both have stupid high verticals(probably somewhere around 40 I'd guess), are both pretty fast, and both agile and have great body control. It's impossible to tell which one is more athletic.

That being said, I'd say Rose is better but that's only because he seems to handle contact better, seems to be a better finisher, and can hit that mid range jumper a little more consistent it seems. They have pretty different roles though so it's hard to compare.

[Go Getter]

Westbrook is more atheltic than Rose? If I were to guess, I would say that they both have stupid high verticals(probably somewhere around 40 I'd guess), are both pretty fast, and both agile and have great body control. It's impossible to tell which one is more athletic.

That being said, I'd say Rose is better but that's only because he seems to handle contact better, seems to be a better finisher, and can hit that mid range jumper a little more consistent it seems. They have pretty different roles though so it's hard to compare.


Nice to see some posters have a little sense.


It's very tough to tell imo...the only advantage I'd give Rose clearly is body control....other than that it's too close to call...

[King Lebron LBJ]

So I wonder was this topic made purely due to what Westbrook is doing against L.A? hmm

[liljohnnywall]

Nice to see some posters have a little sense.


It's very tough to tell imo...the only advantage I'd give Rose clearly is body control....other than that it's too close to call...

lol @ this butthurt stan @ getting mad because his favorite player isn't held to the highest regard by everyone, so he tries to end the "convo" then when a poster comes along agrees with him rationally he says yeah they are close... of course my favorite player is better though and says he has sense. lol. :roll:

With being said give me John Wall before those two anyday.

[Go Getter]

lol @ this butthurt stan @ getting mad because his favorite player isn't held to the highest regard by everyone, so he tries to end the "convo" then when a poster comes along agrees with him rationally he says yeah they are close... of course my favorite player is better though and says he has sense. lol. :roll:

With being said give me John Wall before those two anyday.


I'm not hurt at all I would hate to have lilDRose's around here that's a lame angle you have there.

I wish nothing but the best for John Wall man I don't hate players unless they act like clowns or play against my Bulls.

[Derek Zoolander]

Rose put up a season akin to prime Stevie Franchise.

Westbrook just put up a season akin to prime Jason Kidd.

It just depends who would you rather have?

I'd take Westbrook all day.

[Go Getter]

Rose put up a season akin to prime Stevie Franchise.

Westbrook just put up a season akin to prime Jason Kidd.

It just depends who would you rather have?

I'd take Westbrook all day.


RW did not have a prime J Kidd season you are fooling yourself....wait-a0minute....you're the guy that thinks Manu is the 2nd best SG ever....

:hammerhead:


I feel stupid even entertaining you.....good night to you sir....farewell.

[Derek Zoolander]

RW did not have a prime J Kidd season you are fooling yourself....wait-a0minute....you're the guy that thinks Manu is the 2nd best SG ever....

:hammerhead:


I feel stupid even entertaining you.....good night to you sir....farewell.
So you're a guy who values Steve Francis over Jason Kidd-I gotcha

[elaments]

Rose's offensive game is much more polished than Westbrook. Rose not only finishes at the rim better but he also finishes in the paint with that floater which is huge. Russell is def very talented and just as athletic as Rose but I see Rose as having those other intangibles that Westbrook lacks such as the handles, the body control, and the killer instinct. Both are in ideal situations and fit their games perfectly. I don't think Russ will ever be a top 5 PG but he'll be heading tier II no doubt about it.

[dough]

Rose put up a season akin to prime Stevie Franchise.

Westbrook just put up a season akin to prime Jason Kidd.

It just depends who would you rather have?

I'd take Westbrook all day.
Sergio/Bruinlove/Lilmarcgasol is one of those posters who talk a lot but rarely watch games. He just doesn't know much about the game of basketball at all, and anybody who's been around ish long enough knows this.

[Derek Zoolander]

Sergio/Bruinlove/Lilmarcgasol is one of those posters who talk a lot but rarely watch games. He just doesn't know much about the game of basketball at all, and anybody who's been around ish long enough knows this.
You live in Holland scrub you watch at most 20 games a year.

Check the stats and tell me Westbrook isn't having a prime Kidd like season right now.

[elaments]

Westbrook right now couldn't hold the jock of Jason Kidd in his prime, stop with these foolish posts.

[dough]

You live in Holland scrub you watch at most 20 games a year.

Check the stats and tell me Westbrook isn't having a prime Kidd like season right now.
You keep checking stats, I'll keep watching games. They're nothing alike. When was the last time you saw Westbrook posting up his man? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Go Getter]

You keep checking stats, I'll keep watching games. They're nothing alike. When was the last time you saw Westbrook posting up his man? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:


Prime J Kidd would take the current OKC roster way farther than the 8th seed and a first round exit methinks.

[dough]

You live in Holland scrub you watch at most 20 games a year.
:roll: Still laughing at this idiot.

[Derek Zoolander]

:roll: Still laughing at this idiot.
lol the box score basketball fan is accusing me of not watching NBA, what a buffoon :roll:

[dough]

lol the box score basketball fan is accusing me of not watching NBA, what a buffoon :roll:
Then tell me when was the last time you saw Westbrook play ANYTHING like Kidd? ANYTHING like him.

You think you're smart calling me a boxscore fan, but anyone who reads back 3 or 4 posts will laugh his ass off. 'Check the stats', huh? You ****ing idiot....

[Go Getter]

Then tell me when was the last time you saw Westbrook play ANYTHING like Kidd? ANYTHING like him.

You think you're smart calling me a boxscore fan, but anyone who reads back 3 or 4 posts will laugh his ass off. 'Check the stats', huh? You ****ing idiot....


I have to agree....RW doesn't eve remotely resemble Kidd in style of play....this guy is delusional.

[Derek Zoolander]

I have to agree....RW doesn't eve remotely resemble Kidd in style of play....this guy is delusional.
it's his stats that resemble kidd, jesus christ. rose doesnt play like the franchise either-stevie would dunk on everyone all the time and had a 3 point shot-but his stats resemble francis.

learn 2 read

[Derek Zoolander]

Then tell me when was the last time you saw Westbrook play ANYTHING like Kidd? ANYTHING like him.

You think you're smart calling me a boxscore fan, but anyone who reads back 3 or 4 posts will laugh his ass off. 'Check the stats', huh? You ****ing idiot....
Lol I know you're a box score fan, you know you're a box score fan, that's not a point that we need to waste time arguing.

[liljohnnywall]

Russell Westbrook plays like the pg version-less stats orientated Monta Ellis

[ZenMaster]

lol stats nerds who dont watch them play judging rose as better cus his stats.

The 9% difference is only because Westbrook actually takes open 3 pointers instead of rose who passes them up. Yes westbrook cant hit the 3 very well but it is the right thing to do when left wide open and he will only improve by shooting those shots.

Rose doesn't even think about a 3 point shot. If westbrook just drove and took midrange shots he'd do as well as rose, probably better because he draws more contact with his drives, rose purposefully avoids contact, russell is more athletic than rose.



Stupid to make stuff up which you know nothing about.

Rose Westbrook
At rim: 55.1% 52.7%

<10 feet: 57.5% 38.8%

10-15 feet: 50% 33.9%

16-23 feet: 44% 37%

3pt: 26.7%(0.8 att prg) 22.1%(1.3 att prg)

eFG%: 49.5% 42.8%

[dough]

Lol I know you're a box score fan, you know you're a box score fan, that's not a point that we need to waste time arguing.



And...wait for it



wait...


wait for it...







it's his stats that resemble kidd, jesus christ. rose doesnt play like the franchise either-stevie would dunk on everyone all the time and had a 3 point shot-but his stats resemble francis.

learn 2 read

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[elaments]

Just stop already.

[Derek Zoolander]

And...wait for it



wait...


wait for it...








:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
Thanks for the insight box score fan from holland who doesn't even watch games! It was totally awesome and appreciated!

[BlackMambaLivin]

I dont even know any of these guys stats and i can tell you Drose is WAYYYY better. Its not hard to look good when you have arguably the best scorer in the NBA on your team and the whole defense is paying attention to him.

[MMM]

I really dislike the argument about Rose Assist going up if he had better teammates. While it is obvious that his assist total will go up what is ignored is the quality of the assist. I mean they could be Jose Calderon type of assist or Steve Nash. Just to note i'm not hating on Rose I think he can improve as a passer but nothing shows me that he is going to be among the elite passers in the league. While on the other hand I do see that potential in Westbrook, so in the end I don't think Rose's offense overshaddows all the things Westbrook can do.

[dough]

Thanks for the insight box score fan from holland who doesn't even watch games! It was totally awesome and appreciated!
I'm waiting for you to explain how Westbrook and Kidd are alike. Oh wait...you just compared their stats and thought it would be a good idea to throw it out there... right...right? What's your reasoning, really now?

Here's your chance:

You claim Kidd and Westbrook are alike, based on stats. Now let me pull up some quotes from this very thread:


Originally Posted by Derek Zoolander
lol stats nerds who dont watch them play judging rose as better cus his stats.


Rose put up a season akin to prime Stevie Franchise.
Westbrook just put up a season akin to prime Jason Kidd.
It just depends who would you rather have?
I'd take Westbrook all day.


So you're a guy who values Steve Francis over Jason Kidd-I gotcha


it's his stats that resemble kidd, jesus christ. rose doesnt play like the franchise either-stevie would dunk on everyone all the time and had a 3 point shot-but his stats resemble francis.
learn 2 read


Lol I know you're a box score fan, you know you're a box score fan, that's not a point that we need to waste time arguing.

Tell me why you accuse others of not watching games and being boxscore fans, while you compare two COMPLETELY different players, based SOLELY on their stats.


You are a joke.

[Go Getter]

what is ignored is the quality of the assist. I mean they could be Jose Calderon type of assist or Steve Nash


What makes a quality assist?

And what makes you think RW will one day become a top-notch passer.

I'm asking for your opinion honestly and earnestly.

[ZenMaster]

What makes a quality assist?

And what makes you think RW will one day become a top-notch passer.

I'm asking for your opinion honestly and earnestly.

An assist opportunity is worth more at the rim than in mid range for a jumper.

1) Because the player receiving the ball at the rim has a better %shot than the player receiving the ball in a mid range area. (21 to 17 percent higher in league averages)


2) The shot at the rim has a higher and1 factor than the shot from mid range.

[Go Getter]

An assist opportunity is worth more at the rim than in mid range for a jumper.

1) Because the player receiving the ball at the rim has a better %shot than the player receiving the ball in a mid range area. (21 to 17 percent higher in league averages)


2) The shot at the rim has a higher and1 factor than the shot from mid range.


Good answer even though I was asking MMM for his opinion, :lol

I still think the fact that the Bulls are so unathletic and under manned at the offensive end limits what Rose and the O-coordinator can do.

And I was surprised to see that Rose was more higly regarded coming out of college than Wall by nbadraft.net... .Wall having a 102 overall rating and Rose having a 104.

[MMM]

What makes a quality assist?

And what makes you think RW will one day become a top-notch passer.

I'm asking for your opinion honestly and earnestly.

It is much tougher to create an assist around the rim but the PG's that are able to do that are the elite play makers in the league. I can recall many Chicago fans talking about how poor their jump shooters have been and that it has cost Rose numerous assist. And while I agree that his raw assist numbers could be higher that doesn't necessarily elevate his play making ability. Drawing the weak side defender and hitting an open jump shooter is just about the easiest assist one could get although the problem is it is a low % shot. It is more valuable to a team to have the PG create easy opportunities at the rim which is a higher % shot. That is where I feel Westbrook has Rose beat. Westbrook can get better and develope an offensive game but it is going to be harder for Rose to develope into that type of passer.

[ZenMaster]

Good answer even though I was asking MMM for his opinion, :lol

I still think the fact that the Bulls are so unathletic and under manned at the offensive end limits what Rose and the O-coordinator can do.

And I was surprised to see that Rose was more higly regarded coming out of college than Wall by nbadraft.net... .Wall having a 102 overall rating and Rose having a 104.

Of course it limits what Rose can do when he needs to chose whether to give up the ball or not.

What do they base these ratings on?

It's hard ranking one guy above the other. But for what it's worth, Rose had more of a green light to create in Calipari's half court offense than Wall. This is because Kentucky had Demarcus Cousins who they ran a lot of plays for in the HC. Rose didn't have that type of post up player who demanded the ball (and rightfully so) when he played for Calipari.

[Go Getter]

Of course it limits what Rose can do when he needs to chose whether to give up the ball or not.

What do they base these ratings on?

It's hard ranking one guy above the other. But for what it's worth, Rose had more of a green light to create in Calipari's half court offense than Wall. This is because Kentucky had Demarcus Cousins who they ran a lot of plays for in the HC. Rose didn't have that type of post up player who demanded the ball (and rightfully so) when he played for Calipari.


I saw one game where Cal said he just let Wall do what he wanted....he started restricting more [imo] when Wall started to turn the ball over at an alarming rate and pouting.

[Go Getter]

It is much tougher to create an assist around the rim but the PG's that are able to do that are the elite play makers in the league. I can recall many Chicago fans talking about how poor their jump shooters have been and that it has cost Rose numerous assist. And while I agree that his raw assist numbers could be higher that doesn't necessarily elevate his play making ability. Drawing the weak side defender and hitting an open jump shooter is just about the easiest assist one could get although the problem is it is a low % shot. It is more valuable to a team to have the PG create easy opportunities at the rim which is a higher % shot. That is where I feel Westbrook has Rose beat. Westbrook can get better and develope an offensive game but it is going to be harder for Rose to develope into that type of passer.


I think the offense they run limits Rose's opportunities for those types of assists....plus the Bulls bigs have some pretty stone-like hands....

I think we'll just have to see with time hopefully the Bulls front office can get Bosh and we can put our theories to the test.

[Pharcyde]

Hey look, another thread about Derrick's assist rates.

[Glide2keva]

Hey look, another thread about Derrick's assist rates.
While he's averaging 9 assists in the playoffs. Who knew the had quality assists?

People will go yo any length to knock Derrick Rose. Shameful

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

Great comparison thread. While it is obvious Derrick Rose can score the basketball more and more efficient the way he can get and finish at the hole. I don't know i can trust him to get others involved like Westbrook has shown he was 5th or so in assists. Westbrook more puts crazy statistical games then Rose, while Rose is more consistent.

guys like Stephen Curry, Tyreke Evans should be added to this conversation.

[Go Getter]

Great comparison thread. While it is obvious Derrick Rose can score the basketball more and more efficient the way he can get and finish at the hole. I don't know i can trust him to get others involved like Westbrook has shown he was 5th or so in assists. Westbrook more puts crazy statistical games then Rose, while Rose is more consistent.

guys like Stephen Curry, Tyreke Evans should be added to this conversation.

You are a horrible evaluator of basketball talent but you do have a future in comedy though.

[ZenMaster]

I saw one game where Cal said he just let Wall do what he wanted....he started restricting more [imo] when Wall started to turn the ball over at an alarming rate and pouting.

Yeah i'm pretty sure they've played slower this year than earlier years. A lot of posting up for Cousins this year.

[Go Getter]

Yeah i'm pretty sure they've played slower this year than earlier years. A lot of posting up for Cousins this year.


Which is not Cal's style at all....I wonder why he chose to play that way....is it [kinda] a knock on Wall or a compliment to Cousins?

[ZenMaster]

Which is not Cal's style at all....I wonder why he chose to play that way....is it [kinda] a knock on Wall or a compliment to Cousins?

You just have to fit both in there. He let Wall run for the fast break chances they got. But if the break wasn't there they'd often go to their sets for post ups.

Also, if a good fast break opportunity wasn't there it was better for them to slow way down and get Cousins in good position to get the offensive rebounds, he was a monster when it came to that.

Basically, if you didn't have a good fast breaking finish opportunity, you'd be better off letting Cousins get close to the rim, no matter if you where giving him the ball or not.

IMO it just shows that Cal is capable to fit his playing style to his players.

[TheTruth11]

Westbrook is Drexler as DRose's Jordan. Drexler was very similar to Jordan athletically. Jordan could jump just a little bit higher... was just a little bit faster... could float just a longer.... was just a little bit stronger. And with elite athletes, that slight difference makes all the difference in the world. Westbrook is a great athlete... just not as great an athlete as Rose. Rose is superior athletically. The NBA Combine numbers back this fact up as well.

And we don't really know how good Rose is at playmaking because he doesn't have a team around him. He lacks a consistent shooter and big who can score on a consistent basis. Having Kevin Durant on your team means an automatic + 7 assists. The rest is gravy.

That said, it should be noted that so far (in the playoffs) Rose has more assists than Westbrook... and it is not even close.

[TheTruth11]

Actually, the Combine Numbers are NOT as close as I thought.

No Step Vertical:
Westbrook = 30
Rose = 34.5 :eek: Explosive!

Max Vertical:
Westbrook = 36.5
Rose = 40

Rose clearly gets higher.... and it is not even close. And Rose's no step vert is just crazy. Dude just bounces around the Court, ready to boost off at any second.

Speed (3/4 Court Sprint):
Westbrook = 3.08 (blazing fast)
Rose = 3.05:eek: (even faster)

Add to this Rose's killa first step.... a first step that could very well be the best in the game.... and Rose = beast athletically. A level above Westbrook.

[dak121]

Westbrook is Drexler as DRose's Jordan. Drexler was very similar to Jordan athletically. Jordan could jump just a little bit higher... was just a little bit faster... could float just a longer.... was just a little bit stronger. And with elite athletes, that slight difference makes all the difference in the world. Westbrook is a great athlete... just not as great an athlete as Rose. Rose is superior athletically. The NBA Combine numbers back this fact up as well.

And we don't really know how good Rose is at playmaking because he doesn't have a team around him. He lacks a consistent shooter and big who can score on a consistent basis. Having Kevin Durant on your team means an automatic + 7 assists. The rest is gravy.

That said, it should be noted that so far (in the playoffs) Rose has more assists than Westbrook... and it is not even close.

One guy passes it to Kevin Durant, the other guy to Luol Deng. Why is this a debate?

[King Lebron LBJ]

One guy passes it to Kevin Durant, the other guy to Luol Deng. Why is this a debate?

It is more than just two players.....

[TennesseeFan]

As good as Rose is, I would agree with the OP.

[MMM]

I think the offense they run limits Rose's opportunities for those types of assists....plus the Bulls bigs have some pretty stone-like hands....

I think we'll just have to see with time hopefully the Bulls front office can get Bosh and we can put our theories to the test.


I'm willing to take a wait and see approach with Rose I can obviously be proven wrong in the next few years as he developes.

[OmniStrife]

Nash shits on them both from his geriatric asshole.

At least on offense.... :lol

[liquidrage]

One guy passes it to Kevin Durant, the other guy to Luol Deng. Why is this a debate?

These aren't Euro league teens we're talking about where we can only make bold statements based on Youtube clips and internet posts.

Westbrook is a much better passer then Rose. It's not a debate. It's when you watch them Westbrook is much better at breaking down a defender and dishing the ball for an easy basket, or throwing a bullet pass. He's just a better passer, rebounded, defender then Rose. Rose is a better scorer. I don't even consider that debatable.

[liquidrage]

Nash shits on them both from his geriatric asshole.

At least on offense.... :lol

Without a doubt.

[liquidrage]

I guarantee if Rose had Durant on his team no one would be saying this.

Who can Rose pass it to?

All year the fans, coaches, and players have been telling Rose to shoot more because our personell is such that we can't score well.

You've got to understand a team's dynamics before you evaluate a player guys,

At the same time, imagine Rose not being able to dominate the ball and having to play within a true system.

And you know Russell loses a lot of assists to KD because when KD creates his own shot, no one gets an assist off of it. Not every basket has an assist obviously.

Russ-KD aren't Stockton-Malone playing the pick-n-roll thus inflating Stockton's assists totals. It's not like Russell is living off of dribbling the ball up court, handing it to KD who turns and fires, and +1 assist for Russell. Most of Russell's assists aren't even to KD. When KD scores it's usually off a set play or something he created.

Just actually watch them play. It's clear as day Westbrook is a better passer and playmaker for others. And it's clear as day Rose isn't very good at setting up his teammates.

[JimmyConway]

Actually, the Combine Numbers are NOT as close as I thought.

No Step Vertical:
Westbrook = 30
Rose = 34.5 :eek: Explosive!

Max Vertical:
Westbrook = 36.5
Rose = 40

Rose clearly gets higher.... and it is not even close. And Rose's no step vert is just crazy. Dude just bounces around the Court, ready to boost off at any second.

Speed (3/4 Court Sprint):
Westbrook = 3.08 (blazing fast)
Rose = 3.05:eek: (even faster)

Add to this Rose's killa first step.... a first step that could very well be the best in the game.... and Rose = beast athletically. A level above Westbrook.
/thread ******* haters. dumbass lebrick.

[hoopaddict08]

Who's guarding Westbrook??

Betty White??
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2010/02/wv4f_fieqzy.jpg

[Swaggin916]

They are both pretty much the same player... quick, athletic PG's who can take it to the rack, hit the midrange J, and make the pass.

I'd say it's a crapshoot.

[Go Getter]

Just actually watch them play. It's clear as day Westbrook is a better passer and playmaker for others. And it's clear as day Rose isn't very good at setting up his teammates.


Have YOU watched the Bulls play?


Lol@everyone that says Rose is the inferior athlete when he has the better numbers in combine tests....more dunks....more :eek: plays, etc.

RW averaged 2 more assists on a far better offensive team and people want to say RW's assists are more quality than Rose's....


I'm outta here....I don't want to start sound like I'm bashing RW because I like the guys game a lot.

[ZenMaster]

They are both pretty much the same player... quick, athletic PG's who can take it to the rack, hit the midrange J, and make the pass.

I'd say it's a crapshoot.

Westbrook doesn't shoot nearly as well as Rose.

[liquidrage]

Have YOU watched the Bulls play?


Lol@everyone that says Rose is the inferior athlete when he has the better numbers in combine tests....more dunks....more :eek: plays, etc.

RW averaged 2 more assists on a far better offensive team and people want to say RW's assists are more quality than Rose's....


I'm outta here....I don't want to start sound like I'm bashing RW because I like the guys game a lot.

Well I never said who is the better athlete. Nor do I really care about combine numbers.

Nor do I care about your excuses for Rose having fewer assists. Watching them Russell *is* clearly the better playmaker. His assists aren't Stockton-Malone assists. He doesn't get a ton of assists from Durant because a lot of Durant's makes are not assisted on. Geez, it's like some of you don't even understand the game you're posting about.

[Go Getter]

. Geez, it's like some of you don't even understand the game you're posting about.


I feel the same way about you......Rose is asked to take on the team primary scoring role while RW can be the third option when Green is playing well.

I watched RW play the Lakers yesterday and saw nothing that would make him a better passer to the point where ppl are harping on it like in this thread.

Rose has been playing SG a lot this year and our team is begging him to be more selfish....once we get a scorer to take that load from him he will get better on defense and will distribute the ball more.

Butyoudonthearmethough.

[Derek Zoolander]

I'm waiting for you to explain how Westbrook and Kidd are alike. Oh wait...you just compared their stats and thought it would be a good idea to throw it out there... right...right? What's your reasoning, really now?

Here's your chance:

You claim Kidd and Westbrook are alike, based on stats. Now let me pull up some quotes from this very thread:











Tell me why you accuse others of not watching games and being boxscore fans, while you compare two COMPLETELY different players, based SOLELY on their stats.


You are a joke.

:roll:

Thanks for your opinion mr. self admitted boxscore fan. All I said was Westbrook put up a season similar to prime Jason Kidd in his second year.

I never said "O man Russell Westbrook is just like Jason Kidd they play exactly the same on the court and Westbrook even has the exact same stats OMGZORZ"

Next time you want to get involved in basketball discussion, try watching the games and players in question instead of just youtube and nba.com highlights

[dough]

:roll:

Thanks for your opinion mr. self admitted boxscore fan.

Where? It's a bit sad when you have to make up bullshit like that. You're sliding mate.

[liquidrage]

I watched RW play the Lakers yesterday and saw nothing that would make him a better passer to the point where ppl are harping on it like in this thread.



Amazingly, there might be people who saw some of the other 83 games Russell played in this year and didn't just form their opinion last night. I know, weird!

[Derek Zoolander]

Where? It's a bit sad when you have to make up bullshit like that. You're sliding mate.
You're staying up till 5 am every night watching playoff games? Bullshit. You're sliding as you continue to pretend you watch games.

[Bigsmoke]

I do agree that Westbrook is better in the 2nd option role than Rose is in the franchise player role. I'd like to see Rose become a better passer/playmaker.


who knows how would Rose' assist total would be if he had a guy like Kevin Durant in his locker room

[Bigsmoke]

Rose put up a season akin to prime Stevie Franchise.

Westbrook just put up a season akin to prime Jason Kidd.

It just depends who would you rather have?

I'd take Westbrook all day.


Rose is more of a young Dwayne Wade than a prime Stevee Francis

[97 bulls]

Rose is more of a young Dwayne Wade than a prime Stevee Francis
i agree. and while i think rose is better i must ay its damn close.

[ILLsmak]

I don't think he's better, but he's playing well. it's a close call; I think the fact that you can even compare them at this point is pretty amazing.

I was pretty down on Westbrook despite his stats, but I think he's doing his thing lately.

For some reason, Westbrook seems taller than Rose, too, even though he's not...

-Smak

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

I don't think he's better, but he's playing well. it's a close call; I think the fact that you can even compare them at this point is pretty amazing.

I was pretty down on Westbrook despite his stats, but I think he's doing his thing lately.

For some reason, Westbrook seems taller than Rose, too, even though he's not...

-Smak

Westbrook is an inch taller than Rose. Westbrook is a legit 6'3 barefoot where Rose is a legit 6'2 barefoot.

I don't really take their combine numbers to much in heart since they were both 19 and probably still growing a little. Even Lawson at 20 years and 21 years combine height numbers were a .25 inch increase.

[Go Getter]

Amazingly, there might be people who saw some of the other 83 games Russell played in this year and didn't just form their opinion last night. I know, weird!


I doubt many people [outside of Oklahoma] have seen much of OKC this year but nice try....and I've seen RW play several times this year my comment was to say his game is fresh in my mind despite me not being an OKC fan.

[dak121]

who knows how would Rose' assist total would be if he had a guy like Kevin Durant in his locker room

At least 2 more assist. Take Hinrich out also and it would probably be around 3.

For as much as Sefolosha is scared to shoot the basketball I'd still rather have him than Hinrich. An overdribbling, overpaid bricklayer that still thinks he's a point guard.

Disgraceful.

Seriously, the Bulls have:

1) No interior scoring
2) No consistent free-throw taker (mostly because Rose never gets calls in his favor)
3) No 3-point shooting
4) A jackass of a GM, and a lame duck head coach

Give Westbrook those types of handicaps and lets see what he would do. Nothing against him but I bet that the Bulls would have around 30 wins. The Bulls organization sucks absolute ass. Rose (and Noah) are just propping these assclowns up.

[miniharrison37]

bias.
:roll:

[Samurai Swoosh]

What kind of dumb ass takes Russell Westbrook over Derrick Rose?

:oldlol:

[dough]

You're staying up till 5 am every night watching playoff games? Bullshit. You're sliding as you continue to pretend you watch games.
Loads of games start around 12 or 1. I stay up for loads of games yes. There arent so many games which start at 5 actually.

[liquidrage]

I doubt many people [outside of Oklahoma] have seen much of OKC this year but nice try....and I've seen RW play several times this year my comment was to say his game is fresh in my mind despite me not being an OKC fan.

Hey, ignoring the option basically all of us have to you know, pay to watch every NBA game (hey you know I can even watch them on my phone, what amazing times we live in), there's this thing called the interweb. In some of the shady and IMPOSSIBLE to find corners you can actually, you know, watch every game.

Nah, people posting on a NBA forum wouldn't be the type to do those things...

*Note, a lot of people talk about crap they don't know about and players they rarely see. However, any decent NBA fan should have seen a bunch of Thunder games this year as they were one of the better teams to watch and one of the better stories of the NBA.

[liljohnnywall]

What kind of dumb ass takes Russell Westbrook over Derrick Rose?

:oldlol:

many,but give me john wall

[rfoster24]

And how is Rose not a playmaker???? Rose. Hands down. A joke of a debate.

[Go Getter]

Hey, ignoring the option basically all of us have to you know, pay to watch every NBA game (hey you know I can even watch them on my phone, what amazing times we live in), there's this thing called the interweb. In some of the shady and IMPOSSIBLE to find corners you can actually, you know, watch every game.

Nah, people posting on a NBA forum wouldn't be the type to do those things...

*Note, a lot of people talk about crap they don't know about and players they rarely see. However, any decent NBA fan should have seen a bunch of Thunder games this year as they were one of the better teams to watch and one of the better stories of the NBA.


1. People have the option to fly to outer space too doesn't mean they do.

2. I call bullshit...Almost impossible to watch every game of every season.

3. Thunder were ookay....one of the better teams for a short period of time....not really a big story imo.

But, back on topic, I have seen a few Thunder games and RW's passing ability is not stand out in comparison to Rose's.

[Replay32]

Rose is the better player. Westbrook is no slouch though.

[liquidrage]

1. People have the option to fly to outer space too doesn't mean they do.

2. I call bullshit...Almost impossible to watch every game of every season.

3. Thunder were ookay....one of the better teams for a short period of time....not really a big story imo.

But, back on topic, I have seen a few Thunder games and RW's passing ability is not stand out in comparison to Rose's.

Dude. I'm not saying watch all 82 games for all teams. I'm saying you can watch any single game you want easily. There's no reason good fans didn't want plenty of Thunder games this year. Seriously man.

[Poodle]

i'd take rose pretty easy. westbrook is one of the dumbest pg's in the league but he was way worse last year so he's at least improving. rose isn't the smartest pg imo, but he seems a lot more confident of himself and what he's doing out there than westbrook a lot of times.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

Steph Curry > then anyone mentioned in this thread.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

I personally see Rose as a Marbury mold without some of the baggage. Point is, I don't really see Derrick as a franchise player leading his team. Takes alot in order for a point guard to lead the team and Derrick needs more then just scoring.

Whats the difference between Rose and Marbury???

[brooks_thompson]

I personally see Rose as a Marbury mold without some of the baggage. Point is, I don't really see Derrick as a franchise player leading his team. Takes alot in order for a point guard to lead the team and Derrick needs more then just scoring.

Whats the difference between Rose and Marbury???

michael dickerson

[TheTruth11]

I personally see Rose as a Marbury mold without some of the baggage. Point is, I don't really see Derrick as a franchise player leading his team. Takes alot in order for a point guard to lead the team and Derrick needs more then just scoring.

Whats the difference between Rose and Marbury???


I guess 28 points, 10 assists, and 7 rebounds is not doing it in all areas.:wtf:

Rose d*mn near had a triple double!

Haters!

Next game 23 and 8 assists.

Tonight he is on pace for 28 and 9.

And all the while, the haters will keep hatin:violin:


As far as winning:

There are few that are bigger winners than Rose. Check history:

Grade School:
From 6th grade on, he won the grade school championship. 6th, 7th and 8th grade.

High School:
Freshman = won the Freshman team championship.
Junior and Senior = State Champion. Won it over Evan Turner's team.

College:
Freshman in College = National Championship game

NBA:
1st year in the NBA = lead Bulls to first playoff appearance in years and took the Celtics to a memorable Game 7.

Now = back in the playoffs with a weak team. Guaranteed the team would make it... put the team on his back and made good on his promise.

And this is last time I respond to a TROLL.

[King Kong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNIhMSvcNo :eek:

[entropy35]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNIhMSvcNo :eek:
Holy shit. See where he took off from and where his head is. It's almost above the rim.

[CeoTypeDoe619]

Steph Curry > then anyone mentioned in this thread.
:roll: :roll:
Thats a joke. Westbrook and Rose are 100x better then curry

[joyner82]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNIhMSvcNo :eek:

If he could have somehow dunked that it would have been the dunk of the century. Hell the dunk of last century too.

[the_chosen_1]

stupid thread, no evidence to back this up, sounds like a Rose hater

[wally_world]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNIhMSvcNo :eek:

:wtf: :pimp: :applause: :rockon: :eek:

DAMN thats crazy

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

:wtf: :pimp: :applause: :rockon: :eek:

DAMN thats crazy

:bowdown:

[crisoner]

He is playing a team who can't guard him....????

[TheTruth11]

Lebron James said, "we have to run 2 men at Derrick Rose at all times".

DRose is facing hellafied Defense. A defense designed specifically to stop him. Westbrook faces no such challenge. In fact, Westbrook is not challenged at all. Unlike Rose, he is not being double teamed. He only has to beat DFish.... an easy job.

If Rose were going up against DFish, he would average 37 points a game and shoot 60% from the field.

[Rekindled]

Lebron James said, "we have to run 2 men at Derrick Rose at all times".

DRose is facing hellafied Defense. A defense designed specifically to stop him. Westbrook faces no such challenge. In fact, Westbrook is not challenged at all. Unlike Rose, he is not being double teamed. He only has to beat DFish.... an easy job.

If Rose were going up against DFish, he would average 37 points a game and shoot 60% from the field.

well westbrook destroyed rose last time they played each other. just saying.

[TheTruth11]

well westbrook destroyed rose last time they played each other. just saying.

Check the stats..... Rose has destroyed Westbrook more this season than the other way around. Westbrook had 1 good game against him. Rose dominated all the other times they faced each other.

[TheTruth11]

No Step Vertical:
Westbrook = 30
Rose = 34.5 Explosive!

Max Vertical:
Westbrook = 36.5
Rose = 40

Rose clearly gets higher.... and it is not even close. And Rose's no step vert is just crazy. Dude just bounces around the Court, ready to blast off at any second.

Speed (3/4 Court Sprint):
Westbrook = 3.08 (blazing fast)
Rose = 3.05 (even faster)

Add to this Rose's killa first step.... a first step that could very well be the best in the game.... and Rose = beast athletically. A level above Westbrook.

....

[thejumpa]

Someone explain to me how a 3.5" difference in vertical means Rose is a level above Westbrook atheltically? He is superior if you look at pure numbers, but it is literally impossible to notice a difference on the court....and there is basically no advantage. They both are extremely athletic.

[aem]

oh look.

another thread about derrick rose....

[RealKnowledge]

Someone explain to me how a 3.5" difference in vertical means Rose is a level above Westbrook atheltically? He is superior if you look at pure numbers, but it is literally impossible to notice a difference on the court....and there is basically no advantage. They both are extremely athletic.
You must be dumb if you cant tell the difference. Plus those were pre-draft numbers im pretty sure Rose is jumping higher then that now


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJktVDUiDIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnQB6eJVjds

Not even close :pimp:

[ILLsmak]

Someone explain to me how a 3.5" difference in vertical means Rose is a level above Westbrook atheltically? He is superior if you look at pure numbers, but it is literally impossible to notice a difference on the court....and there is basically no advantage. They both are extremely athletic.

No offense, dude, but have you ever tried to put 4 inches in your vert? Have you ever felt what it's like to jump 4 inches higher (or lower?) I personally have.

That's a ton! Think about it. If you can barely touch the rim with your fingertips, add 4 inches and you are dunking.

-Smak

[TheTruth11]

Someone explain to me how a 3.5" difference in vertical means Rose is a level above Westbrook atheltically? He is superior if you look at pure numbers, but it is literally impossible to notice a difference on the court....and there is basically no advantage. They both are extremely athletic.

Ok.... call it no difference. So if 3.5 is no difference, then certain 2.0 is no difference right? That is the difference between Rose's "no step vertical" and Westbrook's "maximum vertical". Rose's No Step = 34.5. Westbrook's Max Vert = 36.5.

In other words, Rose jumps as high as Westbrook WITHOUT TAKING A STEP!!

Westbrook needs to get a full out running start in order to jump as high as Rose who is standing still. :eek:



And by the way, Rose is leaping somewhere around 44 inches these days. :pimp:

[RealKnowledge]

Ok.... call it no difference. So if 3.5 is no difference, then certain 2.0 is no difference right? That is the difference between Rose's "no step vertical" and Westbrook's "maximum vertical". Rose's No Step = 34.5. Westbrook's Max Vert = 36.5.

In other words, Rose jumps as high as Westbrook WITHOUT TAKING A STEP!!

Westbrook needs to get a full out running start in order to jump as high as Rose who is standing still. :eek:



And by the way, Rose is leaping somewhere around 44 inches these days. :pimp:
Seems like it. Because Westbrook seems no where close to the kid

[liquidrage]

Holy crap, if only Westbrook had a ton of impressive high flying dunks!!!! And if only he took like 10 more shots a game. Then he could be just like Rose's impressive combine number.

I know, we should compare Youtube dunk videos of the two. Well, we could except Westbrook's never dunked in the NBA.

[Go Getter]

Holy crap, if only Westbrook had a ton of impressive high flying dunks!!!! And if only he took like 10 more shots a game. Then he could be just like Rose's impressive combine number.

I know, we should compare Youtube dunk videos of the two. Well, we could except Westbrook's never dunked in the NBA.


Your sarcasm is SO funny and relevant to the topic.

What a great debator you are!

The fact that Rose has more in game dunks, more :eek: plays, and better stats has nothing to do with why we think Rose is better/more physically gifted...no....we just want to put up a fatuous debate for nothing.

[liquidrage]

Your sarcasm is SO funny and relevant to the topic.

What a great debator you are!

The fact that Rose has more in game dunks, more :eek: plays, and better stats has nothing to do with why we think Rose is better/more physically gifted...no....we just want to put up a fatuous debate for nothing.


More? More per possession, or more attempts, or higher dunks, or what? Because Russell, despite pre-draft musing, is actually a PG and you know, runs an offense. What's your more of outside of an unproven assertion. I think Rose's **** is so far up your mouth it's putting pressure on your cerebrum and causing mental retardation.

[liquidrage]

Here's Westbrook's passing compared to Rose's, for those making excuses for Rose.

Westbrook avg 8.8 assists per game, Rose 6.7

So what's the difference? Westbook's assists at the rim. Something Rose doesn't do.

Rose avg's 1.9 assists at the rim per game, Westbrook 3.2. That's a not quite 2x as much, but almost. The best in the game, Nash and Williams, avg 4.9

Rose avg's 2.2 beyond 16 feet, Westbrook 2.0. Westbrook doubles Rose 10 to rim, and 10-15 feet. A very large portion of Rose's assists are just outside shots that are just "the dude shot it and made it".

Rose and Westbrook both take 5.6 shots a game at the rim. But with assists at the rim, and shots at the rim, Westbrook has a big lead in plays at the rim.


Rose's rebound rate is just 0.73. Or near the bottom for PG's. Westbrook's is 8.2 and 3rd amongst starting PG's.

Westbrook's steals + charges + blocks is 1.88, Rose's is 1.18

Rose's TS is 52.3, while Westbrook's is 49.1.
Rose is easily the better scorer.


Scoring is the most important stat, and Rose has that over Westbrook. Westbrook is better at everything else. If Rose was 6'5" he'd be a 2. There's no doubt about it.
I'd take Westbrook over Rose because I think it's hard to build a team around a PG that dominates the ball. It's hard to develop other legit scorers when the guy controlling the ball is a shoot first player. But that's just me. And some other people. But really, they are apple and oranges players, and there's cases to be made either way.

[Go Getter]

Man you sure act foolish.

Do you understand that an assist is a team effort a team stat?

Westbrooks bigs [players that finish at the rim]

-Durant
-Nick Collison
-Nenad Kristic
-Ibaka
-Jeff Green

Derrick Rose's bigs

-Noah
-Miller
-Taj Gibson
-TT*/Hakim Warrick

Lol at you giving Steve Nash credit for "assists at the rim" or any PG [fully] for that matter....plays are not run for Luol Deng to get assists at the bucket you ninny we run a play that gives him a mid range J for instance.

We have another play where our big [Noah/Miller] throws a pass to D Rose on a back cut [it's yielded many a easy layup].

Steve Nash has the best finishing PF in the ****ing league in Amare of course he's going to have the most assists at the rim:hammerhead:

I will concede that at this point RW is a better rebounder and defender.

But then again the Bulls have one of the best rebounding teams in the league so we really don't ask/need him to rebound that much.

For the last time, teams play Rose much differently than RW....you have to take into account a players role on the team and the offense they run.

Right now Rose is our first scoring option. If we get Bosh for instance he can slide into a role that more resembles a traditional PG.

[liquidrage]

Assists are the rim are usually because the ball handler put the person scoring in an easy position to score. If the big made his own shot, they're not going to give an assist for it. It happens, but not a lot. Noah is a quality big and better then any big on the Thunder right now anyways. Durant is not a "big". He doesn't set up inside at all and has zero post game. You're talking those assists are Kristic and Collison and Ibaka mostly.

But hey, you don't know what you're talking about, so if you have any more questions let me know.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

Lets not forget that Russell Westbrook defensive blows Derrick Rose's out the water. Former Pac-10 Defensive player of the year. Stand up Oklahoma

[Go Getter]

Assists are the rim are usually because the ball handler put the person scoring in an easy position to score. If the big made his own shot, they're not going to give an assist for it. It happens, but not a lot. Noah is a quality big and better then any big on the Thunder right now anyways. Durant is not a "big". He doesn't set up inside at all and has zero post game. You're talking those assists are Kristic and Collison and Ibaka mostly.

But hey, you don't know what you're talking about, so if you have any more questions let me know.

Assists at the rim are not just because the person passing put the person receiving in a good spot my narrow-minded friend.

A lot of it has to do with the recipient hustling, angling a path to the basket, catching the pass, and negotiating a shot.

Other times it's about what play the coach calls:ohwell:

When I say BIG I mean a player that can catch and dunk with ease [length size/ability to finish like a big]. Durant qualifies IMO...plus offensively he's on of the best catch and shoot players/finishers in the league.

2.1 more assists with an offensive team like the Thunder?

Are you serious?

[ReturnofJPR]

I've said this since opening night. Now that they are both in the playoffs playing the best defense in both division. Westbrook is hands down more impressive. Westbrook actually playmakes and get his stats when the game is close. Rose is the exact opposite he does his work when the game is out of reach.



Looks like unbiased posters are starting to see this. There was a play in game 2 tonight that Westbrook straight jumped out of the gym mid-way in the second quarter, got his head at rim. It looked like he jumped of a trampoline, someone link that if you find it.

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/russell-westbrook-ok2.jpg

Who is that massively ugly Albino in your avatar? NASTY!

[Millennium X]

no way, only a moron would think russell is better than rose. see the way rose actually carries his team single handedly while russell is just riding durant to all of the thunder wins. assists lmao, yeah let's see russell westbrook rack up the assists with kirk hinrich, luol deng and taj gibson starting. Russell westbrook is another loser who doesn't make the playoffs w/o durant. Replace Rose with him on chicago and they miss the playoffs easily.... u westbrook nut huggers are out of your mind lol

[liquidrage]

no way, only a moron would think russell is better than rose. see the way rose actually carries his team single handedly while russell is just riding durant to all of the thunder wins. assists lmao, yeah let's see russell westbrook rack up the assists with kirk hinrich, luol deng and taj gibson starting. Russell westbrook is another loser who doesn't make the playoffs w/o durant. Replace Rose with him on chicago and they miss the playoffs easily.... u westbrook nut huggers are out of your mind lol

If they were in the west they'd be 15 games out of a playoff spot. Have fun swallowing Rose's payload.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

If they were in the west they'd be 15 games out of a playoff spot. Have fun swallowing Rose's payload.

This, why do Bulls fans think it is accomplish they made it to the playoffs 8th over the Raptors w/o Bosh in the east. Just to loose to the Cavs first round ( if they end up with the upset more power to them) Especially with a chance at John Wall. I mean they aren't even better than Grizzlies who swept them 2-0. and even we were 9 backs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0_jx72q0xs

[3zazer1]

Well thats what happens when you play a aged point guard, and your a second year player around your early 20s.Imagine if he played a younger pg like rondo or williams, who would be better then?

[mendozatheman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FP0ua5xFw4

Nasty.

[burnsy87]

Well thats what happens when you play a aged point guard, and your a second year player around your early 20s.Imagine if he played a younger pg like rondo or williams, who would be better then?

It is pretty hilarious how people are giving Westbrook all this praise right now playing the "legendary" Fisher.

Do you people realize how much Rose would shit all over Fisher in 1 on 1 situations? No, you don't, because he would draw a double the entire game and still be a more efficient scorer than westbrook ever will be.

[thejumpa]

You must be dumb if you cant tell the difference. Plus those were pre-draft numbers im pretty sure Rose is jumping higher then that now

Rose jumps higher now? Westbrook does too. If they went for a dunk 10 times each, you wouldn't be able to notice a difference. Furthermore, what is the advantage of having a 3.5" higher vertical?


No offense, dude, but have you ever tried to put 4 inches in your vert? Have you ever felt what it's like to jump 4 inches higher (or lower?) I personally have.

That's a ton! Think about it. If you can barely touch the rim with your fingertips, add 4 inches and you are dunking.

Yeah....and it made me no better. All I could do was jump higher. My point was you wouldn't notice the difference and the difference isn't enough to say Rose is on another level. It's like 40 times in the NFL. It may look good on paper, but in reality it proves nothing. Westbrook flys just like Rose does and neither can be stopped from getting to the rim. Rose is superior, yes.....but on a different level and better because of it? No.

[KoRn]

Nash shits on them both from his geriatric asshole.

At least on offense.... :lol

and when westbrook and rose play against the suns, they shit on nash without breaking a sweat.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

Rose jumps higher now? Westbrook does too. If they went for a dunk 10 times each, you wouldn't be able to notice a difference. Furthermore, what is the advantage of having a 3.5" higher vertical?



Yeah....and it made me no better. All I could do was jump higher. My point was you wouldn't notice the difference and the difference isn't enough to say Rose is on another level. It's like 40 times in the NFL. It may look good on paper, but in reality it proves nothing. Westbrook flys just like Rose does and neither can be stopped from getting to the rim. Rose is superior, yes.....but on a different level and better because of it? No.

Numbers are a good gauge, but people forget that they were both 19 years old when they were at the combine. I am one to say that Westbrook has gotten a ton more athlete in the 2 years he has been at OKC. While i do believe that Rose is a better trick/fancy dunker. In game he was just as athletic as Rose, maybe even more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FP0ua5xFw4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_w8fN8tmsE

[thejumpa]

Numbers are a good gauge, but people forget that they were both 19 years old when they were at the combine. I am one to say that Westbrook has gotten a ton more athlete in the 2 years he has been at OKC. While i do believe that Rose is a better trick/fancy dunker. In game he was just as athletic as Rose, maybe even more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FP0ua5xFw4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_w8fN8tmsE

Yup. Everybody wants to talk about the difference, but they could never point it out. This guys head is at the rim....at that point it's all style. They are both are blessed with genes that people would kill for. I bet they are both around 40 and that is obviously extremely athletic....but really means little if we are comparing basketball players.

[Clocian-IGN]

rose thread = bulls fans vs everyone else whos mad rose isn't on their team so they sh1t on rose :oldlol:

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

rose thread = bulls fans vs everyone else whos mad rose isn't on their team so they sh1t on rose :oldlol:

Bulls easily have the most delusional fan base especially for a team who is so mediocre, however i would love to see Rose and company shock the basketball world :rockon:

[Batman]

rose thread = bulls fans vs everyone else whos mad rose isn't on their team so they sh1t on rose :oldlol:
we have a winner. These guys are mad , Thunder Fans, that Derrick Rose isnt there point guard.

[Millennium X]

If they were in the west they'd be 15 games out of a playoff spot. Have fun swallowing Rose's payload.
Yeah and if OKC gets injuries for 10 straight games to their best players then they

[Millennium X]

i mean can you honestly say with a straight face that Westbrook leads the Bulls to anything other than 30 wins if you replace Rose with him?

This is just like the stupid Rose vs Rondo debate, peeps thinking that the other two are actually as good as Rose lmao.

Not one GM in the league is dumb enough to take Westbrook or Rondo over Rose. No one is that stupid

[Millennium X]

Bulls easily have the most delusional fan base especially for a team who is so mediocre, however i would love to see Rose and company shock the basketball world :rockon:
Fact: Westbrook on the Bulls vs the Cavs = 4 game sweep for Lebron and co. No way westbrook could lead them to a win against the best team in the league (which is more impressive than anything westbrook does int he playoffs).

Westbrook would jack up bricks and shoot 35% the series.

Actually wait the Bulls couldn't even make the playoffs if they had Westbrook. They'd just be 30 win team year after year

[TheTruth11]

Westbrook's standstill vertical = 30 inches at the Pre-Draft Camp

A low rider. Not explosive at all.

Rose's standstill vertical = 34.5 inches :eek: Explosive!!


One guy needs a running start to get as high as the other guy who is standing still.


Rose's standstill vert is as high as Westbrook's max vert.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQvTABMutyw


Also, Westbrook can only dream about having the "first step" and overall body control that Rose has. Rose can hang in mid-air (hangtime) and contort his body in ways that few people can.


Westbrook is a good player but put him on the Bulls and that team is not even in the playoffs. And double team him like the Cavs are doing Rose, and Westbrook would be shooting his usual 39% from the field. :oldlol:

....

[shortlunatic]

A big lol at the OP. Put Durant on the Bulls on see who's better...nuff said.

[LebrickJames84']

BUMPPPPPP

Westbrook is having his way AGAIN :lol Westbrook> ROse

[PistonsFan#21]

Westbrook's standstill vertical = 30 inches at the Pre-Draft Camp

A low rider. Not explosive at all.

Rose's standstill vertical = 34.5 inches :eek: Explosive!!


One guy needs a running start to get as high as the other guy who is standing still.


Rose's standstill vert is as high as Westbrook's max vert.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQvTABMutyw


....

You seriously think that Westbrook's max vert is only 34.5 inches? :roll:
Get real now. And by the way the vid you posted wasnt a standing vert since he had momentum going to the basket

[OnceInADECADE]

BUMPPPPPP

Westbrook is having his way AGAIN :lol Westbrook> ROse


derrick rose would eat fisher alive if he had a chance to play agaisnt the lakers. but nice RW, fisher really needs to stop

[airchibundo507]

BUMPPPPPP

Westbrook is having his way AGAIN :lol Westbrook> ROse

So. . . you didn't watch the last Bulls game?

You are trolling. Stop.

[LebrickJames84']

So. . . you didn't watch the last Bulls game?

You are trolling. Stop.

Kevin Durant > Carmelo

[airchibundo507]

Kevin Durant > Carmelo

Yep, this confirms that you are a troll.

[KG5MVP]

Kevin Durant > Carmelo

are u the person in ur display pic?

[LebrickJames84']

are u the person in ur display pic?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/member.php?u=170

[KG5MVP]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/member.php?u=170

i dont think women belong here

[LebrickJames84']

Westbrook that's UCLA for you.

[juju151111]

Westbrook is being guarded by a fossil. Rose>WB

[Kingwillball]

Westbrook is being guarded by a fossil. Rose>WB


Correct..Rose's Game is a Little More Complete but Westbrook will be Great. Westbrook looks Extra Good cause he is going against the worst Defensive PG in the Playoffs.

[Millennium X]

you gotta be really f-ed up in the head to think westbrook is better than rose. honestly anyone that would rather have westbrook is just a dumbazz, it's really a dumb comparison.

Westbrook will be a good to borderline all star player someday riding Durant every game while Rose will be a superstar leading his team.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

i am surprise that Phil Jackson hasnt mad adjustments on Russell yet. it has been 4 straight games it isnt a fluke.

[pahisc]

God I can't wait until Lebron is on the Bulls so people can see what a shit player Rose is.

[Go Getter]

God I can't wait until Lebron is on the Bulls so people can see what a shit player Rose is.


So adding Lebron is going to make Rose worse?

And Rose is a "shit player?"

C'mon now man be real wit it.

[Yung D-Will]

Rondo>Rose>Westbrook


Melo>Durant

[entropy35]

Rondo>Rose>Westbrook


Melo>Durant
I concur.

[momo]

Why does the OP have Duce W's avatar?

[Glide2keva]

God I can't wait until Lebron is on the Bulls so people can see what a shit player Rose is.
You're an idiot.

[Kingwillball]

Rondo>Rose>Westbrook


Melo>Durant

Nope Rose>Rondo>Westbrook get it straight..Guaranteed Rose Jumps into the top 3 PG conversation next season. He is a Special player and if he was on Celtics they might be World champs right now. What separates him from Rondo is he can score 30 on any given night and knock down a consistent mid range jumper.

[Glide2keva]

Nope Rose>Rondo>Westbrook get it straight..Guaranteed Rose Jumps into the top 3 PG conversation next season. He is a Special player and if he was on Celtics they might be World champs right now. What separates him from Rondo is he can score 30 on any given night and knock down a consistent mid range jumper.
True. If Rondo would've hit a few mre of his jumpers, we wouldn't even be talking about this, because that series would've been over.

[BlueandGold]

With the last question i can tell you don't reside that much in the OTC, or you would know it is poster DueceWallaces.

Totally agree Rose maybe franchise player, however i would rather have a Wesbrook as the 2nd option making plays for my team. Then have Rose as the franchise player and 1st option being a subpar play making PG in terms of passing.
wtf is the OTC? Some loser club by the retard posters on here?

[Yung D-Will]

Nope Rose>Rondo>Westbrook get it straight..Guaranteed Rose Jumps into the top 3 PG conversation next season. He is a Special player and if he was on Celtics they might be World champs right now. What separates him from Rondo is he can score 30 on any given night and knock down a consistent mid range jumper.
So because Rose is a better scorer then Rondo that makes him a better player? And what seperates them is clearly not rondo's defense or playmaking ability or rebounding .

[LA KB24]

Lol at this thread.

[jasonresno]

So because Rose is a better scorer then Rondo that makes him a better player? And what seperates them is clearly not rondo's defense or playmaking ability or rebounding .
Because averaging 27 pts 8 asts and 4 rebs a game against the Cavs, in the postseason, means you are a one dimensional player.

Your hate on DRose is epic.

[bballer]

What you talkin bout willis

[Yung D-Will]

Because averaging 27 pts 8 asts and 4 rebs a game against the Cavs, in the postseason, means you are a one dimensional player.

Your hate on DRose is epic.

How about you read the post that I quoted where he said D-Rose is better then Rondo because he's a better scorer. Can you read?