Future of Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs now that Spurs eliminated them in round 1

[konex]

Talk about sabotaging your team playing JJ over Roddy

[KnowledgeWithin]

Don't forget the excessive long stretches of play for Dampier over Haywood and Najera being our energy guy over Roddy as well oh yes this is a recipe for winning. :lol

[50inchvertical]

I agree, but too much money. They're still paying damn Avery Johnson 4mil + to call games from the studio. Then add to that of course the 2nd highest payroll in the league with no significant relief coming this offseason. After the 10/11 season, they have some big money coming off would still be over the cap if the want to keep Dirk.

Maybe after next season you let Dirk expire both as a service and thank you to him to allow him to go somewhere else and ring chase, as well as a cost cutting and rebuilding effort.

[konex]

Cuban is a billionaire, why should he care? The coach blew the series by not playing obviously superior players. Unacceptable..

[Rekindled]

beaubois 0 minutes in the 4th, i guess he didnt earn the minutes .

[phoenix18]

I think Dirk is gone...:cry: :cry:

[Noob Saibot]

at this point, makin a coaching change is useless. The Mavs have had different coaches over the past decade and every year, they fall short of reaching their goal to win an NBA championship. The Mavs need new youngblood like a Beaubois, even if they have to get rid of their franchise player in Dirk.

[creepingdeath]

Carlisle is a friggin' son of a b*tch.

[Ancient Legend]

Yes, you can officially call them chokers now.

[50inchvertical]

I think Dirk is gone...:cry: :cry:Only possibility is an S&T but what team? Because there's no way he passes up a 21.5 million dollar option. He's not old enough yet to be in sacrifice money for a chance to win a ring yet and try to coat tail.

[Go Getter]

The problem is that they have built their team around a soft 7-foot jumpshooter that plays little D and doesn't run and fill the lanes well/finish at the basket.

[phoenix18]

Only possibility is an S&T but what team? Because there's no way he passes up a 21.5 million dollar option. He's not old enough yet to be in sacrifice money for a chance to win a ring yet and try to coat tail.
Miami.

[HisAirness3]

This does not bode well for Dirk's legacy. :oldlol:

[Go Getter]

Dirk + Wade + Miami = Big Trouble for the East.

[enayes]

Only possibility is an S&T but what team? Because there's no way he passes up a 21.5 million dollar option. He's not old enough yet to be in sacrifice money for a chance to win a ring yet and try to coat tail.


Thanks Chuck.

[spursdynasty420]

I never understood all the hate RC is getting. are you guys forgetting cuban runs his team like jerry jones runs dallas?? bobo isnt getting playing time because cuban doesnt allow it.

[robertshaw_1]

This does not bode well for Dirk's legacy. :oldlol:

i cant read any plowking, andrei or niko thread........you mad guys?

[50inchvertical]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that 21,513,524$ is hard to pass up, especially since you likely wouldn't get that much on the open market.

[phoenix18]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that 21,500,000$ is hard to pass up.

I'm lost, what do you think about him and Wade in South Beach?

[SCdac]

Personally, knowing the Spurs and having watched them forever, I wouldn't consider this an "upset" (I picked the Spurs in 6 or 7) because these teams were only 5 wins apart going into the playoffs...

But let's not kid ourselves, everyone and their mom (in the media and ISH) was picking the Mavs in this series.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/expertpicks2010nba.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/expertpicks2010nba2.png

Nobody took the Spurs seriously, but they have the talent, experience, and solid coaching to be a serious threat.

[50inchvertical]

Cue some rant about how Golden State wasn't a "true" 8 seed and the same about the Spurs being #7. It's coming, unless they just don't want to do it because I called it

[MK2V1GP]

This was the first thing that popped into my mind as soon as the clock hit zeros.

[50inchvertical]

I don't think it'll happen.

[stephanieg]

Well, at least Dirk played pretty well this series. In those other examples he had complete meltdowns.

[zORi]

When people look back on this, they're not going to remember that they were only 5 wins apart, they are going to remember that the 2nd seed lost to the 7th seed.

The worst part about it, is that it's more of Kidd's fault than Dirk's.

[Jasun]

for the most overrated team of the past 10 years, if not ever. maybe not overrated, but I cant call them chokers since choking would mean they blew it at the last minute. ok I got it... biggest over achieving team.

[Showtime]

If the mavs want more than just regular season success, and actually want to win everything, then cuban must abandon this approach of opening up his wallet to build around Dirk. Dirk must be the player who compliments another star.

[wang4three]

Cuban is a billionaire, why should he care? The coach blew the series by not playing obviously superior players. Unacceptable..

Cuban isn't a billionaire cause he was careless with money.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Dirk must be the player who compliments another star.

If only Dallas could get another "superstar." They don't grow on trees.

[robertshaw_1]

no polwking, andrei or niko posts yet..........................:violin:

[Jasper]

Don't forget the excessive long stretches of play for Dampier over Haywood and Najera being our energy guy over Roddy as well oh yes this is a recipe for winning. :lol

THIS - Haywood should of got majority of minutes for suree..

OK - does Haywood now say time to bolt , lock in on a solid contract else where ???????????

I say the chances are 50% :oldlol:

[zORi]

for the most overrated team of the past 10 years, if not ever. maybe not overrated, but I cant call them chokers since choking would mean they blew it at the last minute. ok I got it... biggest over achieving team.
Nah, too talented to be called over achieving.

I don't know what you'd call them, but between

Losing the Finals 4-2 after going up 2-0 in the beginning (first time that has happened, I believe),
Being the first seed losing to the 8th seed,
and now being the 2nd seed losing to the 7th seed;

I feel for their fans.

Maybe they're cursed?

[Jasper]

Dirk + Wade + Dallas = Big Trouble for the WEST.

fixed

[Showtime]

If only Dallas could get another "superstar." They don't grow on trees.
It's not that simple. Dirk is treated as a superstar when he isn't one. He's treated as a franchise player when he isn't one.

Look at players like Ray Allen or prime Peja. Those guys could be great scorers, but there was no way they were winning championships as the clear #1 with supporting players, no matter how talented those supporting players were. They were the types of guys who needed players as good, or better beside them if they wanted to win a ring. Dirk is overrated in the sense that people still think he's the kind of player can have a championship team built around him.

[robertshaw_1]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

bye bye cuban, terry and the others....manu says hi again.

[Jasun]

theyre like a good boxer with a glass jaw

[Gotterdammerung]

Dallas. Where losing to 7th and 8th seeds happen. :banana:

[R.I.P.]

Carlisle just said Haywood has earned a max contract and that Beaubois will get 10 minutes per game next year. If Barea gets injured he might increase it to 15 minutes. They

[robertshaw_1]

I never understood all the hate RC is getting. are you guys forgetting cuban runs his team like jerry jones runs dallas?? bobo isnt getting playing time because cuban doesnt allow it.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[B][FONT="Arial Black"][SIZE="7"]2

[the_future02]

Dirk scored points but he also allowed McDyess to hit a couple shots in the
4th and also allowed two layups and failed on his rotations on Hill. He fails to make a bigger impact outside of scoring

[robertshaw_1]

niko and andrei must be dead...

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

and that dumb ass plowking....:D :D

life is great.

[Showtime]

Dude played JJ over Bouboi and Butler. Yeah, he shares blame.

[dawsey6]

Dallas, the only team to lose as the #1 & #2 seed in 1st round in a best of 7 series

You went a long way to narrow down the Mavs' accomplishments, being this only the 8th postseason with best-of-7 1st round series. Don't you think?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well Dirk is still a choker, like I said in my thread. Now everyone please, give it a 5 star rating. ^^

[R.I.P.]

Dude played JJ over Bouboi and Butler. Yeah, he shares blame.

Shares? Don

[spursdynasty420]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Shares? Don

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well true enough, but apparently there's no way for a coach not to be blamed for a team's loss.

[Kiddlovesnets]

umm change the 'con' to 'pre' and you make a good thread. XD

[Diesel J]

Avery Johnson >>>>>>>>>Carlisle and Nellie

:pimp:

[Hotlantadude81]

They don't have the greatest mix of players. Yeah, they're talented, but I'm not sure Bulter and Marion in the same lineup is what I would want. I like their rotation at center, but they need another dependable shooter. Jason Terry has never been the most dependable scorer. Marion is past his prime and Kidd is not a shooter you want to count on despite his shooting percentage this season.

Dallas has a talented team, but the pieces don't fit together perfectly. Dallas really could use a Micheal Redd type of shooting guard. A guy that can score 20PPG and be consistent.

[50inchvertical]

You went a long way to narrow down the Mavs' accomplishments, being this only the 8th postseason with best-of-7 1st round series. Don't you think?
Well even if you add when the 1st round was 5 games, the 8 has beat the 1, what 1 more time? It still doesn't happen a lot.

[Hiei]

Dallas are the Clippers of the future.

[Replay32]

Avery Johnson >>>>>>>>>Carlisle and Nellie

:pimp:

This. Carlisle is a joke.

[oh the horror]

How did Dallas "choke?" in this situation? Have any of you ever seen a 7th seed like the Spurs before? San Antonio is flat out capable of going to the finals at this point. Which is crazy, because I had them pegged as being a first or second round exit, but they look pretty strong so far. Dallas fell to a a tough team this year.

[imlmf]

how the f*ck did these dumb muthaf*ckaz get their jobs being completely off all the time?

give me their f*cking job

[D3vIrGiNiz3r]

Dirk has never had a single good teammate.

[Showtime]

Dirk has never had a single good teammate.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Batz]

Dirk has never had a single good teammate.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[robertshaw_1]

Dirk has never had a single good teammate.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[D-Rose]

Hopefully nobody takes this seriously. If anything Dirk has played with more talent than Duncan.

[OmniStrife]

Dirk has never had a single good teammate.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[SCdac]

Dirk has never had a single good teammate.

You mentioned Antawn Jamison as an AS Dirk needs in your thread that was deleted... you realize Dirk did play with Antawn Jamison right?

[6thManOfTheYear]

Dirk has never had a single good teammate.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Showtime]

You mentioned Antawn Jamison as an AS Dirk needs in your thread that was deleted... you realize Dirk did play with Antawn Jamison right?
Did he seriously say that? LMAO

[godofgods]

Wow all the racists are coming out of the woods.

Can't blame this on Dirk. The GS series was rigged. The Spurs is not worse than the Mavs this year, despite the seedings. Spurs still got the GOAT PF and 2nd GOAT SG. You just don't discount that and think the Spurs are a bunch of scrubs.

[insidehoops]

The Dallas Mavericks were the #2 seed in the West -- though the entire conference was extremely close up top.

They faced a Spurs team that underperformed a bit in the regular season but certainly pulled it together, eliminating the Mavs in six games in the first round.

Discuss the Mavericks now that they're been sent packing.

[spursrule]

flaccid? de-boned? in need of enhancement? little blue pill? :confusedshrug:

[vert48]

Cuban needs to find a basketball guy he really trusts to run the team, and then step back. As long as he continues to be the star of the Mavs, the team will continue to fail.

[MrUnstopable]

Was Jason Kidds no show. Do people realize how much talent Kidd has had around him his entire career and nothing to show for it? 40 mpg 8 points 7 assists 7 rebounds on 30 % shooting... the guy is a choke artist.

[spursrule]

Was Jason Kidds no show. Do people realize how much talent Kidd has had around him his entire career and nothing to show for it? 40 mpg 8 points 7 assists 7 rebounds on 30 % shooting... the guy is a choke artist.

I seriously lmao when I saw the contract he got. Cuban has some kind of man crush, he definately was not worth the money/length of contract (3yr/25 million!!!)

[MrUnstopable]

And to think they traded away Devin Harris for this chump...

[Batz]

You're just racist.

[imnew09]

gone fishing with cuban.
Cuban probably hired some hookers with aids to punish them for the loss.

[MrUnstopable]

You're just racist.
Women lie, men lie, numbers don't.

[Batz]

Women lie, men lie, numbers don't.
Racists do.

[MrUnstopable]

Racists don't.
Explain your reasoning?

[spursrule]

You're just racist.

wha?

[Batz]

Explain your reasoning?
Trolling.

[SCdac]

Dallas' real problem = defense

offensive woes hurt, especially for a jump shooting team, but letting the Spurs score .450-.500 FG% in nearly every game isn't going to cut it.

When they played good D, they looked like the #2 seed, prepped to go far.

[MrUnstopable]

wha?
Exactly... :lol

[godofgods]

Avery Johnson >>>>>>>>>Carlisle and Nellie

:pimp:

LOL WUT? :roll: Just because he's black doesn't mean he's better than those guys.

[brwnman]

Personally, knowing the Spurs and having watched them forever, I wouldn't consider this an "upset" (I picked the Spurs in 6 or 7) because these teams were only 5 wins apart going into the playoffs...

But let's not kid ourselves, everyone and their mom (in the media and ISH) was picking the Mavs in this series.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/expertpicks2010nba.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/expertpicks2010nba2.png

Nobody took the Spurs seriously, but they have the talent, experience, and solid coaching to be a serious threat.

Except Kenny Smith, everyone took the Spurs pretty damn seriously...

[Hawker]

Hopefully nobody takes this seriously. If anything Dirk has played with more talent than Duncan.

lol! DRob, Ginobili, Parker > anybody Dirk has played with.

[Ancient Legend]

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h12/acidkidd/4558235624_a30b8e13cd_o.gif

[dbugz]

Trade Dirk

It's about damn time.

[spursdynasty420]

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=403471

[Black Elvis]

Nazi karma rears it's ugly head once more....

[icemanfan]

IMO the blame for the Mavs failures over the last few years falls squarely on Mark Cuban. He interferes way to much. If he had kept Nash and had quite trying to be the quasi coach I believe the Mavs have at least one championship now. This is not Dirk's fault.

[SCdac]

Except Kenny Smith, everyone took the Spurs pretty damn seriously...

Let me rephrase, nobody took the Spurs seriously enough to pick them as winners in the series (aside from Hollinger, Thorpe, and Abbot). The Mav's depth and HC advantage appeared to be too much, but what analysts and fans alike failed to see was, the 09 first round exit was not indicative of complete Spurs ball, and the Spurs never really looked "outmatched" by the Mavs in this regular season (albeit some games were without a 'whole' Spurs squad and/or pre-Butler Hawyood trade). I'm not going to dig posts up, but lots of people on this board before the series were calling Mavs in 6-7 games, and some after game 1 felt strongly enough to suggest a "sweep" was coming, but people forgot the Spurs are no joke come the playoffs.

[icemanfan]

lol! DRob, Ginobili, Parker > anybody Dirk has played with.
your kidding right? Nash, Kidd, Marion just for starters. There is a reason the Mavs payroll is 2nd in the league. Cuban has been buying some of the best talent in the league for years. Pop is just better at putting a TEAM together than Cuban. Tim Duncan has always been great at making those around him better (with Pop's help). Dirk does not have the capacity.

[NY Comeback]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0429/nba_g_duncan11_576.jpg

:lol

[icemanfan]

Mark Cuban with his Jerry Jones attitude has been the Mavs killer for years. He will not quit shuffling the players in and out. He will not leave a coach at the helm long enough. He can not help himself. He has that "I can buy my way to the top" attitude that ****s up everything in a team sport.

[Hawker]

your kidding right? Nash, Kidd, Marion just for starters. There is a reason the Mavs payroll is 2nd in the league. Cuban has been buying some of the best talent in the league for years. Pop is just better at putting a TEAM together than Cuban. Tim Duncan has always been great at making those around him better (with Pop's help). Dirk does not have the capacity.

Marion played like shit this series...did he not. Kidd is shit now. Nash wasn't good back then like he was during his MVP seasons.

[oh the horror]

Honestly, I think Marion is gone. Dude was non-existant during the series, and seems like the odd man out at this point.

[Mr Know It All]

Too many morons in this thread. The only series where Dirk can be blamed is the Golden State Warriors series, and even in that instance the Warriors were hitting ridiculous shots all series and it just seemed like fate that the Mavericks would fall to them.

As far as this series goes the blame should solely be placed upon the role players for Dallas. Kidd, Marion, Terry, these guys were all no shows for Dallas in game 6 and for most of the series. San Antonio closed out on Kidd's three pointers and totally negated his effect on this series, with Kidd taken out of the equation obviously Marion wasn't going to be able to generate any offence, and Terry decided to go cold with his shot and his defence was absolutely dreadful.

Now let's talk about Dirk as a franchise player, because posters like Showtime constantly rag on him and accuse him of being a second banana at best when really it just shows what a moron this person is. The best player Dirk has ever played with is Michael Finley, and a pre-Suns system Steve Nash (About 13ppg and 8apg). During his prime, Dirk's best second banana has been Josh Howard and Jason Terry, Howard has shown since 2007 that he can't be counted on for any role and Jason Terry is a spot up jump shooter. Dirk has never had a Ginobli, Gasol, Stoudamire. Look at the Mavericks' half court offence, it rivals the Cavaliers pathetic offensive gameplan of 'give it to your best player and watch'.

The best option for Dirk right now would seemingly be to put pressure on Dallas to find a legit 2nd option for him, or even bring in a #1 option type of guy like Wade if they can do it. Otherwise, the best fit for Dirk is to opt out and sign a deal with a team like Chicago or Miami. Wade is another guy who hasn't gotten any legitimate help since Shaq, the two of these old rivals teaming up would be deadly.

Either way, I'll let posters like Showtime continue to demonstrate their ignorance in claiming that a league MVP and 25 and 10 playoff performer isn't a legit #1 option.:hammerhead:

[asdf1990]

Too many morons in this thread. The only series where Dirk can be blamed is the Golden State Warriors series, and even in that instance the Warriors were hitting ridiculous shots all series and it just seemed like fate that the Mavericks would fall to them.

As far as this series goes the blame should solely be placed upon the role players for Dallas. Kidd, Marion, Terry, these guys were all no shows for Dallas in game 6 and for most of the series. San Antonio closed out on Kidd's three pointers and totally negated his effect on this series, with Kidd taken out of the equation obviously Marion wasn't going to be able to generate any offence, and Terry decided to go cold with his shot and his defence was absolutely dreadful.

Now let's talk about Dirk as a franchise player, because posters like Showtime constantly rag on him and accuse him of being a second banana at best when really it just shows what a moron this person is. The best player Dirk has ever played with is Michael Finley, and a pre-Suns system Steve Nash (About 13ppg and 8apg). During his prime, Dirk's best second banana has been Josh Howard and Jason Terry, Howard has shown since 2007 that he can't be counted on for any role and Jason Terry is a spot up jump shooter. Dirk has never had a Ginobli, Gasol, Stoudamire. Look at the Mavericks' half court offence, it rivals the Cavaliers pathetic offensive gameplan of 'give it to your best player and watch'.

The best option for Dirk right now would seemingly be to put pressure on Dallas to find a legit 2nd option for him, or even bring in a #1 option type of guy like Wade if they can do it. Otherwise, the best fit for Dirk is to opt out and sign a deal with a team like Chicago or Miami. Wade is another guy who hasn't gotten any legitimate help since Shaq, the two of these old rivals teaming up would be deadly.

Either way, I'll let posters like Showtime continue to demonstrate their ignorance in claiming that a league MVP and 25 and 10 playoff performer isn't a legit #1 option.:hammerhead:

he has the stats of a number 1 guy but stats alone don't make u a good number 1 option. he doesn't have the leadership that the #1 guy should have. when was the last time you saw dirk screaming at his teammate for not playing d or doing something wrong? when was the last time dirk called his team into a huddle and set them straight? i always see kobe, lebron, dwight, wade doing this. The truth is dirk needs a leader on his team cuz he can't lead them.

[Wonder Bread Kid]

your kidding right? Nash, Kidd, Marion just for starters. There is a reason the Mavs payroll is 2nd in the league. Cuban has been buying some of the best talent in the league for years. Pop is just better at putting a TEAM together than Cuban. Tim Duncan has always been great at making those around him better (with Pop's help). Dirk does not have the capacity.

WTF?

Kidd in his prime is one thing, Kidd now is :oldlol:

Marion needs a certain style of play to succeed. He isn't and has never been a franchise player or anyone capable of leading a team to success.

[coin24]

Same old story, keep dirk shuffle everyone else i guess?:oldlol:


Kidd, Terry , Marion, Haywood where the hell were all of you in game 6????
Im not a fan of Carlisles rotations at all. If BB is hot, why leave him out of the game? moron...

For what cuban is spending he should have a much better team, hopefully he goes after some better quality players this offseason..

[HorryIsMyMVP]

WTF?

Kidd in his prime is one thing, Kidd now is :oldlol:

Marion needs a certain style of play to succeed. He isn't and has never been a franchise player or anyone capable of leading a team to success.
That style of play IS Steve Nash. Just sayin'

[icemanfan]

WTF?

Kidd in his prime is one thing, Kidd now is :oldlol:

Marion needs a certain style of play to succeed. He isn't and has never been a franchise player or anyone capable of leading a team to success.
and D. Rob was never D. Rob after 96. As for your comment on Kidd well he took the Nets to the finals twice. That gives him twice the success of Dirk. By your logic then Dirk "isn't and has never been a franchise player or anyone capable of leading a team to success."

[icemanfan]

Michael Finley in his prime
Nick Van Exle 9th year in the L
Raef La Frentz in his prime
Steve Nash in his prime
Josh Howard
Antawn Jamison 5th year in the L
Jason Terry 5th year in the L
Kieth Van Horn 7th year in the L
Jerry Stackhouse 9th year in the L
Juwan Howard
Jason Kidd
Eddie Jones
Caron Butler

excuses excuses excuses. There are lots of legit reasons but other players around Drik is NOT one of them.

[Nero Tulip]

Michael Finley in his prime
Nick Van Exle 9th year in the L
Raef La Frentz in his prime
Steve Nash in his prime
Josh Howard
Antawn Jamison 5th year in the L
Jason Terry 5th year in the L
Kieth Van Horn 7th year in the L
Jerry Stackhouse 9th year in the L
Juwan Howard
Jason Kidd
Eddie Jones
Caron Butler

excuses excuses excuses. There are lots of legit reasons but other players around Drik is NOT one of them.

Exactly. All these guys are so much better than Parker, Ginobili, Gasol...:hammerhead:

[Go Getter]

Either way, I'll let posters like Showtime continue to demonstrate their ignorance in claiming that a league MVP and 25 and 10 playoff performer isn't a legit #1 option.:hammerhead:


An MVP award and 25 and 10 in the playoffs is nice but mental fortitude, defense, leadership, and the balls to go up strong in traffic mean more.

All of the aforementioned qualities are not in Dirk's cache.

[Semi]

he has the stats of a number 1 guy but stats alone don't make u a good number 1 option. he doesn't have the leadership that the #1 guy should have. when was the last time you saw dirk screaming at his teammate for not playing d or doing something wrong? when was the last time dirk called his team into a huddle and set them straight? i always see kobe, lebron, dwight, wade doing this. The truth is dirk needs a leader on his team cuz he can't lead them.

when does duncan do stuff like that? and he got 4 rings....
you guys always search for the failure of dirk, obviously its the failure of the mavs organisation. i total see dirk win a ring with a ginobili, parker nucleus, but he's put in a bad position at this point in his career.

[Go Getter]

when does duncan do stuff like that? and he got 4 rings....
you guys always search for the failure of dirk, obviously its the failure of the mavs organisation. i total see dirk win a ring with a ginobili, parker nucleus, but he's put in a bad position at this point in his career.


So at what point of his career has he been in a good position?


The Spurs won rings because their best players could get a bucket when the time called for it.....Manu, TP, and TD all give up their bodies and go to the rim and get buckets....and they can all defend theior position.

Dirk is to SofT to be the #1 option on a team.....the Mavs won't win with him at the helm.

[Andrei89]

For what cuban is spending he should have a much better team, hopefully he goes after some better quality players this offseason..

What? The mavs were one of the most stacked teams of the NBA. Especially since they got Butler and Haywood for basicly nothing

Dirk Butler Marion Kidd Haywood should have been good enough to at least reach the conference finals

[Sakkreth]

If Wade stays miami and Dirk joins him i am so jumping to miami bandwagon :lol

[El Seano]

As is always the case with insidehoops, the posters who were claiming the Mavs were going all the way and was going to knock the Lakers off the 1 seed when they had that 13 game win streak are very, very ****ing quiet now.

Where are the "We got Caron Butler, now we will take over the known world" fans?

[bettalaylow]

Everyone keeps saying that Dirk isn't the superstar to build around but have they gotten that ONLY THREE SUPERSTARS HAVE A WON A TITLE. For the past 10 years it's Spurs, Lakers, with Boston thrown in there once and Miami THAT'S IT FOLKS. Right now Kobe is getting old, Duncan is getting older and there is no way in this world Dirk could end up with the Spurs, Wade couldn't even turn the Boston series into something respectable, and well we know what condition that Detroit team is.


So what superstar should Dallas be building around? Plus stop this nonsense of thinking that there is some imaginary superstar out there waiting to take a team to the Finals. You know what that guy doesn't exist currently even the Mythical Lebron James was swept in his one appearance in the Finals.

Get a damn clue people

[kunk75]

I can definitely see this happening, but apparently Dirk is not much for the nightlife so Miami could be a strange fit.


If Wade stays miami and Dirk joins him i am so jumping to miami bandwagon :lol

[kunk75]

he had an amazing series save for one game.
This does not bode well for Dirk's legacy. :oldlol:

[R.I.P.]

he has the stats of a number 1 guy but stats alone don't make u a good number 1 option. he doesn't have the leadership that the #1 guy should have. when was the last time you saw dirk screaming at his teammate for not playing d or doing something wrong? when was the last time dirk called his team into a huddle and set them straight? i always see kobe, lebron, dwight, wade doing this. The truth is dirk needs a leader on his team cuz he can't lead them.

How does he demonstrate those leadership skills?

Does he put Kidd into a hottube time machine?

Does he perform brain surgery on Carlisle and transplants Larry Brown

[kunk75]

webber alluded to the fact that dirk should have won by now because he played with a pre-peak nash and an over the hill kidd. logic fail.

and the mavs will never get a favorable call or great coach until cuban sits the **** down and shuts the **** up.

[Anaximandro1]

Dirk has never had a single good teammate.

:no: No more excuses,Dirk has always had stacked teams.

2000-01


Dirk 21.8 ppg,9.2 rpg

Finley 21.5 ppg,5.2 rpg

Howard 17.8 ppg,7.1 rpg

Nash 15.6 ppg,7.3 apg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2001.html

2001-2002



Dirk 23.4 ppg,9.9 rpg

Finley 20.6 ppg,5.2 rpg

Nash 17.9 ppg,7.7 apg

Van Exel 13.2 ppg,4.2 apg

Howard 12.9 ppg,7.4 rpg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2002.html

2002-2003



Dirk 25.1 ppg,9.9 rpg

Finley 19.3 ppg,5.8 rpg

Nash 17.7 ppg,7.3 apg

Van Exel 12.5 ppg,4.3 apg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2003.html

2003-2004



Dirk 21.8 ppg,8.7 rpg

Finley 18.6 ppg,4.5 rpg

Jamison 14.8 ppg,6.3 rpg

Nash 14.5 ppg,8.8 apg

Toine 14.0 ppg,8.3 rpg

Howard 8.6 ppg,5.5rpg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2004.html

Lebron,KG,Duncan,Shaq... would have multiple rings.

[Wonder Bread Kid]

:no: No more excuses,Dirk has always had stacked teams.

2000-01



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2001.html

2001-2002



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2002.html

2002-2003



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2003.html

2003-2004



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2004.html

Lebron,KG,Duncan,Shaq... would have multiple rings.

Very true.

[creepingdeath]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]How does he demonstrate those leadership skills?

Does he put Kidd into a hottube time machine?

Does he perform brain surgery on Carlisle and transplants Larry Brown

[Jailblazers7]

The Kidd/hot tub time machine thing was horribly lame.

Seriously tho, Dirk was flat out terrible in crunch time last night. I give him all the credit in the world for dropping 15 in the 3rd quarter last night to get his team back in the game but when shots needed to be made he wasn't making them.

During the last 5 mins, he was taking highly contested fadeaways and settling for horrible shots that just clanged off the front of the rim. He either needs to work the ball around or work for a better shot because a pump fake and then a contested fadeaway is not a good shot when you are down 5 with a few minutes left. Even if he would have made them I would be saying they were bad shots.

[ginobli2311]

:no: No more excuses,Dirk has always had stacked teams.

2000-01



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2001.html

2001-2002



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2002.html

2002-2003



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2003.html

2003-2004



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2004.html

Lebron,KG,Duncan,Shaq... would have multiple rings.


Hahahahah. Yes. lets just simply look at ppg numbers....because that is what wins in the playoffs. Because shawn bradley protecting the rim is going to get it done in the playoffs....oh wait...don't forget laettner....and don't forget that juwan howard, eisley, and hubert davis all played key roles. yea....that team was good enough to win it.

Yea....because Raef Lafrentz and Najera backin and bradley back in 2002 and 2003 was a good enough front line to handle shaq and duncan. I must be high for me to miss this.

Lets look at 2004 playoffs for some of the players you mention:

Marquis daniels - 42% and 16 points
Steve nash - 39% and 14 points
Finley - 38% and 13 points
Jamsion - 45% and 13 points
Walker - 36% and 10 points
Howard - 22% and 5 points
Najera - 45% and 2 points

DIRK - 45% and 27 points and 12 boards

Notice how the mavs didn't even have a CENTER that played minutes in the playoffs. Dude....should i continue. You are referencing juwan howard and antoine walker as vital players for the playoffs. Are you serious? Notice how nash and finley can't even shoot over 40% in a tough playoff series. I'm not even talking about the fact that finley and nash are awful perimeter defenders.

Lets continue:

in 2005 the Mavericks had only 1 center in Dampier and he only played a little over half as much as the other starters. Yea...because relying soley on Dampier to protect the paint and rebound is going to be a good idea in the playoffs.

2006:
mavs make the NBA finals after beating a better Spurs team with a better coach and a better built team for playoff success
Dirk's game 7 numbers in San Antonio: Don't forget that he made a 3 point play to send it to OT.

Dirk just had 37 and 15 on the road in a game 7 on 55% shooting. By the way....Dampier...the mavs only center....finished with 6 points and 3 rebounds and 1 block. But yea.....having only one awful center should be good enough to go up against guys like Duncan and Shaq.

2007:

Played poorly....along with everyone else on the team except for josh howard. Avery go seriously out coached again. Oh....and dampier/diop combined to only play 178 minutes the entire series. yea....getting that out of the center position will win in the playoffs.


We all know the recent history so I won't go through it. For the last ****ing time. You can't win in the playoffs without a decent center protecting the rim and rebounding.....and you can't win if you don't have at least a couple decent perimeter defenders. Just stop it.

[ACCBaller1403]

Hahahahah. Yes. lets just simply look at ppg numbers....because that is what wins in the playoffs. Because shawn bradley protecting the rim is going to get it done in the playoffs....oh wait...don't forget laettner....and don't forget that juwan howard, eisley, and hubert davis all played key roles. yea....that team was good enough to win it.

Yea....because Raef Lafrentz and Najera backin and bradley back in 2002 and 2003 was a good enough front line to handle shaq and duncan. I must be high for me to miss this.

Lets look at 2004 playoffs for some of the players you mention:

Marquis daniels - 42% and 16 points
Steve nash - 39% and 14 points
Finley - 38% and 13 points
Jamsion - 45% and 13 points
Walker - 36% and 10 points
Howard - 22% and 5 points
Najera - 45% and 2 points

DIRK - 45% and 27 points and 12 boards

Notice how the mavs didn't even have a CENTER that played minutes in the playoffs. Dude....should i continue. You are referencing juwan howard and antoine walker as vital players for the playoffs. Are you serious? Notice how nash and finley can't even shoot over 40% in a tough playoff series. I'm not even talking about the fact that finley and nash are awful perimeter defenders.

Lets continue:

in 2005 the Mavericks had only 1 center in Dampier and he only played a little over half as much as the other starters. Yea...because relying soley on Dampier to protect the paint and rebound is going to be a good idea in the playoffs.

2006:
mavs make the NBA finals after beating a better Spurs team with a better coach and a better built team for playoff success
Dirk's game 7 numbers in San Antonio: Don't forget that he made a 3 point play to send it to OT.

Dirk just had 37 and 15 on the road in a game 7 on 55% shooting. By the way....Dampier...the mavs only center....finished with 6 points and 3 rebounds and 1 block. But yea.....having only one awful center should be good enough to go up against guys like Duncan and Shaq.

2007:

Played poorly....along with everyone else on the team except for josh howard. Avery go seriously out coached again. Oh....and dampier/diop combined to only play 178 minutes the entire series. yea....getting that out of the center position will win in the playoffs.


We all know the recent history so I won't go through it. For the last ****ing time. You can't win in the playoffs without a decent center protecting the rim and rebounding.....and you can't win if you don't have at least a couple decent perimeter defenders. Just stop it.

I think everyone on both sides of the argument is missing the point. Dirk has had talent. Dirk has had good talent. Sometimes they're older than they should be but they're still big names and guys that can contribute.

However, the talent that the Mavs get is not the right talent. Things Dirk needs are a low post threat and an above average SG that can create his own shot. Dirk's always had great pgs and decent to above average small forwards by his side. Dirk doesn't need an amazing pg though b/c he can create his own shot better than most anyone in the league. Dirk doesn't need a great small forward b/c Dirk is essentially a small forward in a 7 foot frame. So getting great pg talent and sf talent is redundant to Dirk's skillset. Getting a quality big man is first and foremost the thing that Cuban should've been focusing on.

And I love the arguments that Shaq/Kobe/Lebron/etc. would've won with that talent. No shitt. They're all better players than Dirk from a career standpoint. Nothing wrong with that and I don't think it's a knock on Dirk. They're just better players. Dirk is one of the top 5-7 players over the past decade and a top 40 all time, but those guys are just flat out better. Outside of Kobe/Shaq/Duncan, no superstar has consistently been as good as Dirk has over the past decade. This whole "he can't lead his team to a championship" talk is crazy, because no other superstars can either. Wade did once with a motivated Shaq, but he is also better than Dirk.

I just don't understand who this superstar is that CAN lead their team without great help tailored to their game. TMac? Can't even get out of the first round. Kidd? Made the finals and did nothing there. Iverson? He's still living off of a single Finals run to his entire legacy. CP or DWill? Nothing worth noting there. Carmelo? Less playoff success than Dirk and until this year, consistently a worse performer as well. Howard? Made the finals and didn't do anything. Webber? Never even made it to the finals. KG? Perennial first round exit until he joined the all star team that is Boston of 2 years ago.

Literally, Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe are it. I don't see the shame in Dirk's resume' thus far and why he gets negative posts about him more than any of these other guys. Hell, his playoff stats are so much better than most of these people can dream of. His close out game stats are through the roof. Is it dissapointing for their team? I'm sure it is. I'm a Wizards fan though. I know dissapointment. I'd rather have a team make the playoffs every year, get to the finals, have a player that steps his game up in the playoffs, etc.

I feel like Dirk is getting more than his fair share of the blame. In the end, he's the team star and that is to be expected, but I just don't see how he is mostly to blame when his teammates didn't step up this year at all, but he did.

And to the guy that said Dirk doesn't show leadership b/c he doesn't yell at his teammates...I remember when he yelled at Terry for not closing out on Nash for a game tying three in the playoffs I think 3 years ago. Dirk got lambasted for not being a good teammate and yelling at his lead guard. Why is it when he does it then it is being a bad teammate, but when he doesn't do it now, it's that he's a bad leader?

[ginobli2311]

I think everyone on both sides of the argument is missing the point. Dirk has had talent. Dirk has had good talent. Sometimes they're older than they should be but they're still big names and guys that can contribute.

However, the talent that the Mavs get is not the right talent. Things Dirk needs are a low post threat and an above average SG that can create his own shot. Dirk's always had great pgs and decent to above average small forwards by his side. Dirk doesn't need an amazing pg though b/c he can create his own shot better than most anyone in the league. Dirk doesn't need a great small forward b/c Dirk is essentially a small forward in a 7 foot frame. So getting great pg talent and sf talent is redundant to Dirk's skillset. Getting a quality big man is first and foremost the thing that Cuban should've been focusing on.

And I love the arguments that Shaq/Kobe/Lebron/etc. would've won with that talent. No shitt. They're all better players than Dirk from a career standpoint. Nothing wrong with that and I don't think it's a knock on Dirk. They're just better players. Dirk is one of the top 5-7 players over the past decade and a top 40 all time, but those guys are just flat out better. Outside of Kobe/Shaq/Duncan, no superstar has consistently been as good as Dirk has over the past decade. This whole "he can't lead his team to a championship" talk is crazy, because no other superstars can either. Wade did once with a motivated Shaq, but he is also better than Dirk.

I just don't understand who this superstar is that CAN lead their team without great help tailored to their game. TMac? Can't even get out of the first round. Kidd? Made the finals and did nothing there. Iverson? He's still living off of a single Finals run to his entire legacy. CP or DWill? Nothing worth noting there. Carmelo? Less playoff success than Dirk and until this year, consistently a worse performer as well. Howard? Made the finals and didn't do anything. Webber? Never even made it to the finals. KG? Perennial first round exit until he joined the all star team that is Boston of 2 years ago.

Literally, Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe are it. I don't see the shame in Dirk's resume' thus far and why he gets negative posts about him more than any of these other guys. Hell, his playoff stats are so much better than most of these people can dream of. His close out game stats are through the roof. Is it dissapointing for their team? I'm sure it is. I'm a Wizards fan though. I know dissapointment. I'd rather have a team make the playoffs every year, get to the finals, have a player that steps his game up in the playoffs, etc.

I feel like Dirk is getting more than his fair share of the blame. In the end, he's the team star and that is to be expected, but I just don't see how he is mostly to blame when his teammates didn't step up this year at all, but he did.

And to the guy that said Dirk doesn't show leadership b/c he doesn't yell at his teammates...I remember when he yelled at Terry for not closing out on Nash for a game tying three in the playoffs I think 3 years ago. Dirk got lambasted for not being a good teammate and yelling at his lead guard. Why is it when he does it then it is being a bad teammate, but when he doesn't do it now, it's that he's a bad leader?

Ok. I agree that he has had talent and some big names.....but you are dead right that it has been the wrong type of talent. But even more so, that talent has just not been as good as the other championship teams. Kobe and Shaq will both go down at 2 of the top 15 players ever and they both played for arguably the best coach ever. Dirk would have easily won multiple titles if he got to play with a Paul Pierce/ Joe Johnson type player....let alone a top 15 player of all time. So while I agree with most of what you said, and I agree that Dirk is not the same league with kobe, shaq, duncan, lebron, wade....I don't think its something we will ever know about for championships. For Dirk to come this close and have so much success in this era in the West without a proper team built around him makes me wonder. For example, the Lakers would not have won a title with Gasol. You could put so many different "big name players" in for Gasol and very very few would have been good enough to win a title. I guess my main point is that even shaq, duncan, and kobe needed at least one other hall of fame player and a great coach to win championships.

Plain and simple.....that is something that players like KG and Dirk just never had during their primes. KG got it in Boston and he won a title.....KG still doesn't get enough credit for that. He was the Celtics best player throughout the playoffs....and owned a tough matchup against Gasol in the finals. On the other hand, Kobe got outplayed by Paul Pierce in the finals and his team lost. What if that had been Kobe's only shot at leading a team to a title? He would have failed miserably.....but he got another shot because he had a team properly built around him and with a 5 year championship window. So i see what you are saying, but its not fair to compare apples and oranges.

The criteria to win a title in the NBA is very simple. Multiple hall of fame players and great coaching along with a team built around its stars that can defend and protect the rim. No player in history (other than Hakeem with the 94 Rockets) has carried a team to a championship all by himself. The Pistons in 04 were just a great group of players that made up a perfectly built team to win in the playoffs. But those are the only 2 examples....AS I KEEP SAYING...of teams winning it without the above criteria.

Is anyone on here going to tell me that Dirk would not have won at least 1 title with Paul Pierce playing the role of "robin" over the last 7 years? Seriously.

[icemanfan]

Exactly. All these guys are so much better than Parker, Ginobili, Gasol...:hammerhead:
yes they are that is why Cuban paid and continues to pay for guys like these. Why in the hell are Mav fans saying Nash was not a top player in the league until he went to the Suns? There was a reason the Suns paid the money for him. There was a reason why he "suddenly" became a league MVP. He did not change he just moved into a system that better fit his style of play. Dirk had Steve Nash, MVP level player. That is an absolute fact. Neither player can help that the Mavs style of play did not suit Nash's style of play. Hell I ddon't think it suits Dirk's style of play. Parker and Ginobili will never be league MVP level players. The Mavs had Dirk and Nash at the same time and were not able to put it all together. The Mavs need a coach like Phil Jackson who knows how to design a system that best suits the skill set of the team's best player.

[asdf1990]

when does duncan do stuff like that? and he got 4 rings....
you guys always search for the failure of dirk, obviously its the failure of the mavs organisation. i total see dirk win a ring with a ginobili, parker nucleus, but he's put in a bad position at this point in his career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PucM5ArF0I

plz never question duncans leadership abilities. I can guarantee u if u replaced dirk with duncan the spurs wudn't win you know why? cuz he anchors there defense and dirk wouldn't be able to do that. It's about time you accept the fact that dirk is only gonna get somewhere if he plays next to a true Number 1 guy like lebron wade or dwight.

[D3vIrGiNiz3r]

your an idiot if you think dirk has ever had a teammate even close to gino parker or duncan. he hasnt even played with anyone as good as hill.

dirk has had to play with garbage his whole career but hes so good he makes his teammates actually look better.

[Kingsfans818]

A TNT cameraman took video of Mark Cuban with his head down in the Dallas locker room following their elimination from the 2010 NBA Playoffs, but the owner had a media rep to obtain the tape.

He eventually spoke to members of the media.

"Congratulations to the Spurs. George Hill emerged as the star and really was the difference-maker. They deserve to win. They're a Texas team, so I guess I'll be rooting for them the rest of the way. I'm proud of our guys and the way they kept on fighting back," Cuban said. "I'm not so proud of the NBA.

"I'm not proud of my inability over the last 10 years to have an impact like I want to have, so I kind of feel like I owe fans an apology, but that's just the way this business goes, but congratulations to the Spurs."



Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66284/20100430/cuban_not_so_proud_of_the_nba/#ixzz0mcLMqA1C

Not typical of Mark Cuban to say the least...

He didn't even react like this when they got eliminated by the GSW or lost in the finals to the Heat...

Seems totally down and as if there isn't going to be an 11th year(at least w/ this core)

[bagelred]

"Congratulations to the Spurs. George Hill emerged as the star and really was the difference-maker. They deserve to win. They're a Texas team, so I guess I'll be rooting for them the rest of the way. I'm proud of our guys and the way they kept on fighting back," Cuban said. "I'm not so proud of the NBA.

What does that mean?

[SleepyCorpse]

Mark Cuban is the reason Dallas hasn't at least one championship by now. Any other owner would have sucked for a year or two, drafted high and gotten Dirk a legit all star to play with by now, plus some stability at head coach.

[Kingsfans818]

What does that mean?

hard to know exacting, but knowing Cuban, I would understand it as:

indirect way of criticizing the refs, bureaucracy, and even implying at it being partially fixed

[lakerspng]

Mark Cuban is the reason Dallas hasn't at least one championship by now. Any other owner would have sucked for a year or two, drafted high and gotten Dirk a legit all star to play with by now, plus some stability at head coach.

Completely disagree. before Cuban became their owner they were completely irrelevant. He's made them a perennial contender and made them a sellout every night at home.

Cuban is a great owner, I am very thankful we have had Jerry Buss who I consider the greatest owner in pro sports, but if I had to choose anyone else in the league to run the Lakers franchise, it would be Cuban. He cares about winning and is passionate about his team and the game of basketball.

[Poodle]

What does that mean?


he is one of those homers that always blames ref calls. i bet he means that.

[Hiei]

your an idiot if you think dirk has ever had a teammate even close to gino parker or duncan. he hasnt even played with anyone as good as hill.

dirk has had to play with garbage his whole career but hes so good he makes his teammates actually look better.

Hill wouldn't even be a starter on this Dallas team. Dirk can't carry a team, he is just a jumpshooting PF. He is no as good of a passer as Gasol and not as good of a scorer as Bosh. He is not going anywhere as a first option.

[824]

I think Cuban was irritated with the refereeing last game (didn't watch any of the other games for that series so I can't comment), but he did not look happy on the sidelines throughout the game with a lot of the calls, and to be honest I agreed with him on many of the calls and I could care less about either of those teams.

[GiveItToBurrito]

I'd be down too if I spent that much money to lose in the first round. He'd be better off blowing it up, trading everyone (including Dirk) a la Seattle and trying to get back into contender status within three or four years unless he can pull something off to get Chris Paul, Carmelo, or someone like that.

[Poodle]

Mark Cuban is the reason Dallas hasn't at least one championship by now. Any other owner would have sucked for a year or two, drafted high and gotten Dirk a legit all star to play with by now, plus some stability at head coach.


cuban is one of the best things to ever happen to the mav's.

[bagelred]

I'd be down too if I spent that much money to lose in the first round. He'd be better off blowing it up, trading everyone (including Dirk) a la Seattle and trying to get back into contender status within three or four years unless he can pull something off to get Chris Paul, Carmelo, or someone like that.

This is beyond ridiculous. His team was the 2nd seed in the West. He has very good players on the roster. It just didn't happen this year.

Do you know how difficult it is to rebuild? Takes lots of time and patience and luck.

Look at the Knicks. They've been down for 10 years. The Bulls have never even been close since "rebuilding" when Jordan left. Rebuilding is for teams that simply average and below average with no hope. So you sell off your best pieces and start over. Does that sound like the Mavericks to you? :hammerhead:

[Tito Beasley]

I was rooting for the Spurs in this series, but I have to say I was surprised by how DECIDEDLY one-sided the officiating was. I'm not saying it was intentional or agenda-driven, just incompetent. Were the Spurs the better team? Yeah, most likely. But the officiating definitely helped their cause in this series.

[beermonsteroo]

Hill wouldn't even be a starter on this Dallas team. Dirk can't carry a team, he is just a jumpshooting PF. He is no as good of a passer as Gasol and not as good of a scorer as Bosh. He is not going anywhere as a first option.
:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[GiveItToBurrito]

This is beyond ridiculous. His team was the 2nd seed in the West. He has very good players on the roster. It just didn't happen this year.

Do you know how difficult it is to rebuild? Takes lots of time and patience and luck.

Look at the Knicks. They've been down for 10 years. The Bulls have never even been close since "rebuilding" when Jordan left. Rebuilding is for teams that simply average and below average with no hope. So you sell off your best pieces and start over. Does that sound like the Mavericks to you? :hammerhead:

They were the second seed in the West, sure, but they won more close games than is normal and the "worst" playoff team in the conference won five fewer games than them. His team was good, sure, but it's old, capped out, and just doesn't seem to fit. Their only chance at becoming a legit contender is for Beaubois to bust out, which would probably require playing. The Mavs aren't a bad or mediocre team like Indiana or Sacramento before they got rid of Artest, but they're not going to go anywhere other than maybe the second round, plus they're spending a ton of money, so I'd definitely try to start from scratch if I were them. Hell, I'm sure Cuban could afford to buy draft picks from teams like Miami or Memphis that aren't going to be interested in using them this year.

Rebuilding isn't that incredibly difficult. New York's been unable to do it because they constantly look for quick fixes (which we're going to see again this summer) and don't do it through the draft like every other successful team. Chicago's built a decent team, they would have been a lot better if they hadn't wasted years on Curry and Chandler, although I don't think anyone could've predicted just how much of a waste Curry would be.

Let's look at some teams who have recently rebuilt: Portland (took them maybe four years to become a 50 win team), Oklahoma City (took them three or four years to become a 50 win team), Atlanta (took them three or four years after the Johnson signing to become a 45 or 50 win team), Indiana (ok, they've been stuck in neutral for three or four years now), Charlotte (run by MJ, so they get a pass), and Sacramento (two years after completely blowing it up and getting rid of Salmons and Miller, they've got an elite guard, a top five pick, and some intriguing prospects). It's a painful process and drafting poorly can set a team back by a year, but rebuilding isn't that difficult if a team's just willing to sacrifice for a bit.

[bagelred]

Let's look at some teams who have recently rebuilt: Portland (took them maybe four years to become a 50 win team), Oklahoma City (took them three or four years to become a 50 win team), Atlanta (took them three or four years after the Johnson signing to become a 45 or 50 win team), Indiana (ok, they've been stuck in neutral for three or four years now), Charlotte (run by MJ, so they get a pass), and Sacramento (two years after completely blowing it up and getting rid of Salmons and Miller, they've got an elite guard, a top five pick, and some intriguing prospects). It's a painful process and drafting poorly can set a team back by a year, but rebuilding isn't that difficult if a team's just willing to sacrifice for a bit.

Dallas is arguably better than every single team you mentioned. Sacramento still sucks. Charlotte can't get better than they are. Indiana is in neutral for sure. OKC was awful then extremely lucky in lottery picks and selection. Portland has been "rebuilding" forever and they still haven't got close to winning yet. Atlanta is about to lose in first round.

If I were Dallas, I'd leave it completely alone. Just figure out what other piece they could use and use MLE for it. Plus they have a great young PG in Beajdoiubsiuiojis that's only getting better.

Plus Mavericks have an amazing trade chip in Dampier's expiring contract that can give another team immediate cap relief. If Mavs use it wisely, they can put themselves over the top.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Mark Cuban is the reason Dallas hasn't at least one championship by now. Any other owner would have sucked for a year or two, drafted high and gotten Dirk a legit all star to play with by now, plus some stability at head coach.

You are an idiot.

[jbot]

isn't he wanting to get into baseball?

[hawksdogsbraves]

maybe he'll take his shenanigans into pro baseball.

I would be the happiest man alive if he would buy the Braves.

[GiveItToBurrito]

Dallas is arguably better than every single team you mentioned. Sacramento still sucks. Charlotte can't get better than they are. Indiana is in neutral for sure. OKC was awful then extremely lucky in lottery picks and selection. Portland has been "rebuilding" forever and they still haven't got close to winning yet. Atlanta is about to lose in first round.

If I were Dallas, I'd leave it completely alone. Just figure out what other piece they could use and use MLE for it. Plus they have a great young PG in Beajdoiubsiuiojis that's only getting better.

Plus Mavericks have an amazing trade chip in Dampier's expiring contract that can give another team immediate cap relief. If Mavs use it wisely, they can put themselves over the top.

Dallas is better than those teams, sure, but Dallas also has no more room to grow. Charlotte's a bad example since they've got Pacer-itis where they're stuck winning 35 games a season. OKC made the second round in 2005 or something if I'm not mistaken, then rebuilt when they let Rashard walk and traded Ray Allen. I don't think they've been that lucky in the draft, Durant's a franchise guy, but Westbrook is about normal for the fourth pick, Green's kind of a bust in my opinion, and Harden, while good, is probably just going to be mediocre for a third pick in the draft. The talent they've gotten is about what you'd expect from a team with like five top five picks. Portland's been rebuilding for a while, sure, but it took a long time for them to get rid of all the Jailblazers and ZBo and they would have been good earlier if not for Oden's freak health. And sure, Atlanta's going to lose in the first round, but they also won 50 games this year and made the second round last year, plus, other than Bibby, everyone on the team will be as good or better for another three or four years.

I think Dallas could be helped with tweaks, but they'd have to get lucky to become a truly elite team. I think part of it is getting rid of some of their depth and replacing their five or six bench guys who could start on bad teams with two or three good role players. Even then, I don't see them beating LA, Cleveland, Orlando, or even this year's incarnation of the Celtics.

Dampier's contract is nice, but I don't think a lot of teams will be in the luxury tax next year. NO is an interesting place for them to look to do a deal, Posey and Okafor should be available. Even then, though, I don't think that infusion of talent would be enough to make them elite, since everyone except Roddy will most likely decline a little next year.

[icemanfan]

your an idiot if you think dirk has ever had a teammate even close to gino parker or duncan. he hasnt even played with anyone as good as hill.

dirk has had to play with garbage his whole career but hes so good he makes his teammates actually look better.
Nash is garbage? They gave the league MVP twice to garbage? The Mavs have the leagues 2nd largest pay roll with Garbage? Some people can think and some..... well being stupid isn't the worst thing that could happen. The world needs special people too.

[kunk75]

dwight is like russell without the bball IQ, post moves and intimidation. GTFO


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PucM5ArF0I

plz never question duncans leadership abilities. I can guarantee u if u replaced dirk with duncan the spurs wudn't win you know why? cuz he anchors there defense and dirk wouldn't be able to do that. It's about time you accept the fact that dirk is only gonna get somewhere if he plays next to a true Number 1 guy like lebron wade or dwight.

[kunk75]

i've been on 4chan and it's still hard to believe how stupid some people here are.

[Jordandunk23]

Mark Cuban is a great owner. he lifted this dallas franchise. I hate the mavericks but i definitely have respect for their owner and their organization and their owner is the main reason they have consistently been contenders. ok, so the negative part, they still haven't won a championship, they lost in the finals, they lost in the 1st round as a 1st seed and now as a 2nd seed. and yes they are currently in a dilemma because dallas is constantly adding talent but hasn't produced a championship, and now they are not sure where to go. but as Cuban says, that is the business. they have consistently been in the playoffs and have been consistent contenders.

[R.I.P.]

Hill wouldn't even be a starter on this Dallas team. Dirk can't carry a team, he is just a jumpshooting PF. He is no as good of a passer as Gasol and not as good of a scorer as Bosh. He is not going anywhere as a first option.

This site seriously needs a dumbass filter. Something like

Are you over 13 years old and not retarded?

Yes.
No.

[3zazer1]

The Mavericks are a damn disapointment.
think about it, they had the deepest team in the west
kidd
butler
dirk
marion
terry
j.j
haywood
dampier

and they lost to the spurs, who are a proven good team yet are way past their prime and injury prone.

[lilgodfather1]

Mark is one of the best owners the league has. He is willing to step up and pay any amount that he sees fit to try and get his team to contention. I respect him, and if every other GM was like him the NBA would be the best league in the world, but not many are like him for various reasons. He is a fan first.

[PP34Deuce]

They have older talented guys who are shells of their former self on that team. Terry,Kidd, need to go.

If they could find a way, Trading for Kirk Heinrich would make them a lil younger with a guy who would be good for them

[Prodigy]

They have older talented guys who are shells of their former self on that team. Terry,Kidd, need to go.

If they could find a way, Trading for Kirk Heinrich would make them a lil younger with a guy who would be good for them

They are still being haunted by the Kidd and Harris trade.

[PP34Deuce]

Its hard cause Kid had a great season. was shooting the open 3 at a better clip, than playoffs came and he looked 10 years older.

[ReturnofJPR]

If Dirk opts out, how does that change things. Is he more sought after than Wade or Bosh. Bron is still #1, right? What about Joe Johnson, Amare, or Boozer. Where does Dirk fit into that? He has told ESPN that he might opt out.

What teams would pursue Dirk? Nets? Knicks? HEAT?

[stephanieg]

A team in the modern day day NBA whose best two players are white gets destroyed. Big shock.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

All depends on need. LeBron and Wade are one and two regardless. But after that, it is all dependent on style/fit for a team.

[Nets fan 93]

If Miami wants Wade to stay... They may need Dirk

[The Nets]

If Miami wants Wade to stay... They may need Dirk

hehe true enough, Miami needs to move Beasley and trade for someone capable of being a consistent 2nd option.

[MK2V1GP]

I was just wondering earlier, where would Dirk go if he left Dallas?

New York was the first thing that popped into my mind, no idea why though. I do think that Wade and Dirk would work well together though. Dirk seems to have a 2nd option mentality sometimes, and Wade would finally have a guy he could depend on for once.

Sign and trade to Phx for Amare? lol. Re-unite Nash with Dirk.

Sign and trade to Utah for Boozer? lol

NO IDEA

[Juges8932]

Bron is #1 due to him being so young.

Wade is #2 due to being so good, but not quite as young as Bron


Everybody else, but particularly Dirk, Amar'e, and Bosh.

[1~Gibson~1]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02Y6bCKgxdcTV/340x.jpg

What do you think Dirk does with his future? Does he returns to the place where he's spent his first 12 years in the league at or does he go to an up and coming team (like the Thunder) to try to win a championship.

And what should Mark Cuban do with the team? Break up the pieces or give it another shot?

[Jasper]

Gib - there are a ton of these threads out there right now :confusedshrug:

FYI- jasper

[1~Gibson~1]

Gib - there are a ton of these threads out there right now :confusedshrug:

FYI- jasper
didnt see em...lo siento

this is my first time back on ISH in a while

[magnax1]

Well, I could see Dirk asking for a trade, but thats extremely unlikely. Hes one of the most loyal seeming players in the NBA.

[brooks_thompson]

how about portland?

although i cant see blazers fo making a major trade without giving a healthy team a year to compete. i can see a sign and trade happening if they underachieve next year. this assumes nowitzki takes his 21 million next year

[InspiredLebowski]

They can bring in a major piece with Dampier's unguaranteed contract. I imagine probably somewhere around a dozen teams would line up to take that off their hands.

[brooks_thompson]

They can bring in a major piece with Dampier's unguaranteed contract. I imagine probably somewhere around a dozen teams would line up to take that off their hands.

iguodala->philly tank for top 3 pick?

[BarberSchool]

They can bring in a major piece with Dampier's unguaranteed contract. I imagine probably somewhere around a dozen teams would line up to take that off their hands.THIS.

[BarberSchool]

Avery Johnson >>>>>>>>>Carlisle and Nellie

:pimp:
http://www.phuckpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/kid_retard_ninja.jpg

Retard ninja's brain>Tyrus Thomas brain>Gerald Green's brain>Avery Johnson's brain>my dog's brain

[kunk75]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://www.phuckpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/kid_retard_ninja.jpg

Retard ninja's brain>Tyrus Thomas brain>Gerald Green's brain>Avery Johnson's brain>my dog's brain

[dallaslonghorn]

Lebron,KG,Duncan,Shaq... would have multiple rings.

Is anyone pretending Dirk is as good as one of these players?

Yes, having one of those 4 in their prime would be preferable than Dirk, but as Rick Pitino said "Larry Bird is not walking through this door" :oldlol:

Dirk's already proven that an elite team can be built around him. Teams don't get rid of guys like that, especially someone with his skill set (height and shooting ability) which tend to age well.

[Fallguy20]

Is anyone pretending Dirk is as good as one of these players?

Yes, having one of those 4 in their prime would be preferable than Dirk, but as Rick Pitino said "Larry Bird is not walking through this door" :oldlol:

Dirk's already proven that an elite team can be built around him. Teams don't get rid of guys like that, especially someone with his skill set (height and shooting ability) which tend to age well.

This is true, but does Cuban believe it? If his faith in Dirk is full then all is well, if he is shaken then watch out. Crazy billionaires tend to do crazy things when they question themselves.

[creepingdeath]

Is anyone pretending Dirk is as good as one of these players?
I totally agree with LeBron, Shaq and Timmy > Dirk, but KG? I don't see why he should get the edge.

[kunk75]

they need a slasher of some sort and a pure point who is not jkidd.

wade/dirk would be the absolute perfect combo, best combo i can think of for any team, even better than kobe/pau becuase neither seem to posess the ego of the laker stars.

[ZeN]

I would love to see Dirk Nowitzki on a team that will actually get him out of the first round. Something that I doubt he will gain by staying with the Mavs. I would hate to see him end up like Karl Malone, Chuck, or other players who never got a ring. Dirk has been sufficiently patient and loyal to the franchise and they have just not gotten it done.

[BarberSchool]

they need a slasher of some sort and a pure point who is not jkidd.

wade/dirk would be the absolute perfect combo, best combo i can think of for any team, even better than kobe/pau becuase neither seem to posess the ego of the laker stars.Nope, the real "best" player for Dirk's game to be complimented by......if we factor out all likelihood of it happening, and just judge upon pure complimentary skill, and cohesiveness of talent, FLOOR BALANCE, and rhythm...... would currently be Deron Williams.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Nowitzki should go play for the Knicks under D'Antoni's system. His numbers will go through the roof.

[airchibundo507]

Nope, the real "best" player for Dirk's game to be complimented by......if we factor out all likelihood of it happening, and just judge upon pure complimentary skill, and cohesiveness of talent, FLOOR BALANCE, and rhythm...... would currently be Deron Williams.

Why is that?

Complimentary skill? Cohesiveness of talent? Floor balance? Are you making this stuff up? :lol

[Brunch@Five]

best combo would be Dwight + Dirk.

[Pharcyde]

Derrick Rose and Dirk would be a fun combo to watch. The pick and pop would be a hard choice on how to defend.

[B-Ball PharmD]

Nope, the real "best" player for Dirk's game to be complimented by......if we factor out all likelihood of it happening, and just judge upon pure complimentary skill, and cohesiveness of talent, FLOOR BALANCE, and rhythm...... would currently be Deron Williams.
That is an intriguing idea, if it actually happened...I heard some broadcasters for the Jazz/Nugs games saying that Boozer probably wants to leave UT after this season. I think DWill and Dirk would work well together as Deron likes to attack the rim but also facilitates (better than Wade in this regard, and definitely better than Kidd), while Dirk likes to shoot. They could pick and roll well, and Williams is another LEGIT scoring option who performs strongly in the playoffs (unlike every Mav outside of Dirk.) Throw in the good/unselfish Jazz role players (who also perform well in the playoffs) and the great, veteran coach Sloan...and I think you would have a VERY strong contender. I am not sure how Mehmet Okur would fit in, especially at Center...they would need to also trade for a Legit center or have a reserve center step up their game big time.

Not sure if it is realistic, but what if it was Dirk + Haywood for Okur + Boozer or some variation of that?

[lakerHater]

http://imgburst.com/up/dirksharkpEFn.jpg

[CryinInTheCar]

That is an intriguing idea, if it actually happened...I heard some broadcasters for the Jazz/Nugs games saying that Boozer probably wants to leave UT after this season. I think DWill and Dirk would work well together as Deron likes to attack the rim but also facilitates (better than Wade in this regard, and definitely better than Kidd), while Dirk likes to shoot. They could pick and roll well, and Williams is another LEGIT scoring option who performs strongly in the playoffs (unlike every Mav outside of Dirk.) Throw in the good/unselfish Jazz role players (who also perform well in the playoffs) and the great, veteran coach Sloan...and I think you would have a VERY strong contender. I am not sure how Mehmet Okur would fit in, especially at Center...they would need to also trade for a Legit center or have a reserve center step up their game big time.

Not sure if it is realistic, but what if it was Dirk + Haywood for Okur + Boozer or some variation of that?

I could see dirk going to the nets if they get wall or turner. God knows the russian will pay dirk the money he wants. The nets could also sign someone like rudy gay.

Harris
Turner
Gay
Dirk
Lopez

Twill
Lee
Yi
Hayes
2 rookies off the bench.

[rfoster24]

He'll stay. I can't imagine every single player in the NBA starving for a championship so much that they'll leave a team every time they become a free agent.

[Jballer]

Just lurking - not flaming. Raptors fan. Toronto native.

What about S&T - Dirk for Chis Bosh ?

I think there is lots of prima facie evidence that Chris wants to be in Dallas.

I presume like most internationals - Dirk wont find Toronto a downer (possibly the opposite). He will most certainly want a bump and extension salary wise and Toronto can accomidate that. Leaving Dallas and the media frenzy regarding his emotional well being is probably good for him.

Finally - playing for Cuban the active GM and Coach "not on the bench" would have to wear thin. BColangelo seems to have a good reputation and I would assume that would attract Dirk.

This does presume that Cuban will pull this trigger - but there is smoke in those rumors as well. Cuban has never hesitated to tinker.

If CB4s and his agent wants this deal - I see it very likely. A good fit cause the cap numbers, the "extras" can all be minimized with a 1 for 1 sort of deal.

Thoughts?

[paperstreet]

Just lurking - not flaming. Raptors fan. Toronto native.

What about S&T - Dirk for Chis Bosh ?

I think there is lots of prima facie evidence that Chris wants to be in Dallas.

I presume like most internationals - Dirk wont find Toronto a downer (possibly the opposite). He will most certainly want a bump and extension salary wise and Toronto can accomidate that. Leaving Dallas and the media frenzy regarding his emotional well being is probably good for him.

Finally - playing for Cuban the active GM and Coach "not on the bench" would have to wear thin. BColangelo seems to have a good reputation and I would assume that would attract Dirk.

This does presume that Cuban will pull this trigger - but there is smoke in those rumors as well. Cuban has never hesitated to tinker.

If CB4s and his agent wants this deal - I see it very likely. A good fit cause the cap numbers, the "extras" can all be minimized with a 1 for 1 sort of deal.

Thoughts?

I see very little chance of this happening. Dirk has said he wants to win, and TOR couldn't even make the playoffs last year.

[Jballer]

I see very little chance of this happening. Dirk has said he wants to win, and TOR couldn't even make the playoffs last year.

I get that. :cheers:

I guess my poorly worded question somehow left out the strong inference that Mark C would 'pull the tirgger' and push for the deal; seeing Bosh as at the least "equally tallented" and younger.

Toronto's nucleus on paper isnt downright bad; though they under performed and team play was poor. Especially defensively. Dirk's hesitaton no dount would be sincere. Would Dirk play on a team with Hedo Turkaglo, Jose Calderon, Andreas Bargani? (Turkish, Spanish, Italian nationals respectively).

[InspiredLebowski]

Today was the deadline on Dallas deciding to ship their 2nd rounder to Indy this year or next year to complete the Shawne Williams deal. Anyone heard anything?

edit: Dallas indeed gave this year's pick. Figured as much with it being the 57th pick out of 60.

[Mavsfan31]

Do you see Dallas getting Lebron? Or any big superstar this summer...?