I told you all that JOHN WALL was overrated!!! He posts a 30 inch vert!!!!

[TheTruth11]

You'all laughed and said that I didn't know what I was talking about. I predicted right here on this Board that John Wall would not post higher than 30 on his vert. I was shouted down. Now word comes that he posted 30!!!

Where is OJMamba??? I had a bet with him. Come on out OJMamba, don't hide now.

And somewhat surprisingly Evan Turner posted a higher vert of 34.5:eek:

I predicted John Wall would post a 30 no step vert and 36.5 max vert. I am halfway home. He will not leap higher than 36.5 on his max.

And wow wow wow..... 30 is extremely poor. But I knew it. Dude has no bounce.


I knew that reports of his athleticism were vastly overrated. I could tell that Wall was kind of "heavy legged" and lacked the ability to be "sudden!" I could just see it in his game. Not a quick leaper, not explosive.... like I said, a bit "heavy legged". That said, when it is all said and done, he can still end up being a great basketball player.


...

[Rekindled]

that's a no step vert...

thread fail

[Quata]

"The skill of a player is based upon the height they jump"
-Gerald Green, James White, Joe Alexander, other scrubs.

[SAKOTXA]

Running vert is different...I had 28 inch standing vertical, but 36 running.

[BrentISballin]

I'm confused why this makes him over rated? I have seen him jump plenty in person and he effortlessly gets up off a sprint , which is what matters.

[Batz]

No step vertical...

[zizozain]

in befor PB ashbly

[Svendiggity]

can anyone send a link to the vert numbers

[magnax1]

Doesn't Chris Kaman only have like a 20 inch vert?

[thejumpa]

He is 6'4. A 35"+ vertical is more than enough to be effective at PG.

[biasedfan]

Damn you're right, 30 inch vert holy shit, he's not even a lottery pick now totally overrated...:rolleyes:

[OnceInADECADE]

SOFT HE HAS TIME TO RISE IT! But anyways that doesNT make him overrated REAL TALKS BRO

[OnceInADECADE]

You'all laughed and said that I didn't know what I was talking about. I predicted right here on this Board that John Wall would not post higher than 30 on his vert. I was shouted down. Now word comes that he posted 30!!!

Where is OJMamba??? I had a bet with him. Come on out OJMamba, don't hide now.

And somewhat surprisingly Evan Turner posted a higher vert of 34.5:eek:

I predicted John Wall would post a 30 no step vert and 36.5 max vert. I am halfway home. He will not leap higher than 36.5 on his max.

And wow wow wow..... 30 is extremely poor. But I knew it. Dude has no bounce.


.....

LINK PLEEZE

[TheTruth11]

Meaning his so called status as a "freak athlete" is overrated. He can still be a fantastic basketball player but I have never bought into the talk of him being a "freak athlete". I just didn't see it. When I watched him, he seemed to lack bounce and explosion. Straightline speed is very good.... but he lacks super quicks and bounce. I have always said that he lacks a "tremendous first step" and that he is not a great leaper.

I don't know why this guy is working out. Really, the hype of John Wall will vastly exceeds his actual numbers. If I was his agent, I would have advised him against working out.

...

[Real Men Wear Green]

I guess this means he won't be a shot blocker.

[abuC]

Deron Williams had a 30" no step vertical too.....

[OnceInADECADE]

Meaning his so called status as a "freak athlete" is overrated. He can still be a fantastic basketball player but I have never bought into the talk of him being a "freak athlete". I just didn't see it. When I watched him, he seemed to lack bounce and explosion. Straightline speed is very good.... but he lacks super quicks and bounce. I have always said that he lacks a "tremendous first step" and that he is not a great leaper.

I don't why this guy is working out. Really, the hype of John Wall will vastly exceeds his actual numbers. If I was his agent, I would have advised him against working out.

DO U CONSIDER DWAYNE WADE A FREAK ATHLETE?

[lefthook00]

He most likely has a higher running vert. Maybe he is a one foot jumper? Maybe he should hit the squat rack harder.

[OnceInADECADE]

I guess this means he won't be a shot blocker.

LONG ARMS AND GREAT HEIGHT FOR A TRUE PG HELPS

1 BPG BOOK IT

[abuC]

DO U CONSIDER DWAYNE WADE A FREAK ATHLETE?


Only had a 31.5 no step vertical, going by his standards nope, Wade is not a freak athlete.

[EastCaliChillin]

I have been saying this guy is overrated. People were trying to say he was more athletic then Derrick Rose. Blasphemy. He should have not participated in combine though might hurt his stock.

[Andrei89]

Only had a 31.5 no step vertical, going by his standards nope, Wade is not a freak athlete.

LoL dwyane is definetly a freak athlete. He even putback a dunk from out of bounds on KG. That is an athlete

[EastCaliChillin]

DO U CONSIDER DWAYNE WADE A FREAK ATHLETE?
Wade is not a freak athlete. Derrick rose is

[Real Men Wear Green]

LONG ARMS AND GREAT HEIGHT FOR A TRUE PG HELPS

1 BPG BOOK IT
You know, I was actually being sarcastic, Also, your caps lock key is on.

[OnceInADECADE]

I have been saying this guy is overrated. People were trying to say he was more athletic then Derrick Rose. Blasphemy. He should have not participated in combine though might hurt his stock.

TRUE THAT HE IS NOT ON THE LEVEL OF D-ROSE BUT WHO IS?:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

STILL JOHN WALL WOULD BE A GREAT ATHLETE

[EastCaliChillin]

TRUE THAT HE IS NOT ON THE LEVEL OF D-ROSE BUT WHO IS?:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

STILL JOHN WALL WOULD BE A GREAT ATHLETE
Yes but media, fanboys, analyst were all saying he is a more athletic D-rose.
A blind man can see otherwise

[OnceInADECADE]

You know, I was actually being sarcastic, Also, your caps lock key is on.

OO ok cuz if u werent i would have showed u a mix of john wall blocking everything in sight

[OnceInADECADE]

Yes but media, fanboys, analyst were all saying he is a more athletic D-rose.
A blind man can see otherwise

ok thats is overrating him only russell westbrook is on D-ROSE LEVEL

[abuC]

LoL dwyane is definetly a freak athlete. He even putback a dunk from out of bounds on KG. That is an athlete


I know that, Wade is one of the best athletes in the league. I was saying using the thread starters rationale he must not think Wade is a freak athlete.

[thejumpa]

Why does having a 30" stand vert even matter? How well do you play BASKETBALL? Can you run an offensive and make sound decisions?

I never understood why kids on the internet obsess about vertical numbers like they actually mean anything.

[Real Men Wear Green]

OO ok cuz if u werent i would have showed u a mix of john wall blocking everything in sight
And yet you still don't get the joke...

[Real Men Wear Green]

Why does having a 30" stand vert even matter? How well do you play BASKETBALL? Can you run an offensive and make sound decisions?

I never understood why kids on the internet obsess about vertical numbers like they actually mean anything.
Posters tend to obsess over every stupid detail. Steve Francis was the most athletic pg ever. How'd that work out for him after a few injuries?

[wang4three]

OP is the same guy that makes a thread everytime Rose makes a dunk and argues it to be one of the top 5 dunks of all times, correct? All right fair enough.

[OnceInADECADE]

I know that, Wade is one of the best athletes in the league. I was saying using the thread starters rationale he must not think Wade is a freak athlete.

So Wade is a Freak athlete but not John Wall wow

1. Watch this pleeze. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0HXc-5kxOI
See the way Johnny Boy elvates over his oppoents and slams it home if thats not athlectism i dont no what is

2. See John Wall and Eric Bledsoe play Monkey in the middle with a scrub(kemba walker i'm joking) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9t0nzbI9AU&feature=related

3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht8P6c4JhJE&feature=fvw See John Wall catch the Lob and throw it home wow

He might not have a 40 inch like D-ROSE but the long wingspan and good height makes up for it

[RaceBannana]

Maybe, he just want to discourage the Wizards from drafting him.

[TheTruth11]

I don't consider DWade a "freak athlete" but I do consider DWade a "freak basketball player". Johnny Wall can be the same way.

That said, I do believe DWade is more athletic than Wall. DWade does some tremendous things in the air that you just can't teach. Moreover, DWade is extremely quick side to side, i.e. a very good first step. Wall seems to lack side to side quicks although he does likely have more straightline speed.

But yes, a 30 inch "no step" vert is hugely important. Arguably more important than a running vert. The "no step" means explosion!!! Explosion from any position on the floor which increases rebounding, shot blocking, put backs, ally oops, etc., etc. In short, a strong argument can be made that the "no step" is more important than the running vert.

Also you can't run all the time. Especially in the NBA with it's half court sets. Certainly in the half court, the "no step" would likely be of more use than the running.

Bottom line.... "no step" means explosion. Either you have it or you don't. Wall lacks it. That said, he can still be a very good player.

....

[Real Men Wear Green]

Four minutes of John Wall not exploding. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw&feature=related)

[PP34Deuce]

John Wall is a great athlete in that track mode. Hes not a freak to me.

Lebron,Dwight,Rose, are some freaks that just make you go WOW.

[ImmortalD24]

Poor mans Ginobili.

[plowking]

Four minutes of John Wall not exploding. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw&feature=related)

Look at his head on the block 19 seconds in... This is a 6'2 player...

[plowking]

Let's be real, he's no Dragic, but who is?

[wpdougie2180]

Four minutes of John Wall not exploding. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw&feature=related)

I don't know I didn't see much of that at Kentucky last yeah he had a good season but I didn't see much of that explosiveness last year and trust me I seen alot of Wall living in TN. I just keep saying to myself is this all everyone's been talking about but watching that highlight tape opened my eyes to a couple of things I had never got the Rose comparisons until now also why didn't translate to the college level and will it translate to the pros and for all his athleticism why he basically shots a flat footed set shot that he won't get off at the next level?

[OneMoreSucka]

I didn't know people put so much into no step verticals.

[entropy35]

I didn't know people put so much into no step verticals.
I don' think GM's would.

[B-Easy]

Wade is not a freak athlete. Derrick rose is

lol comedy ..

#s wise i bet Rose beats out Wade. but watch them on the court, Wade is clearly more of a freak athlete. Wade probably doubles or triples the amount of dunks and blocks they get. And gets so many more "get out of your seat" type plays.

Theres more to bball than just combine numbers. Those highligh blocks and dunks by Wade is more timing and awareness rather than just athleticism.

[IcanzIIravor]

I didn't know people put so much into no step verticals.

The people who do are probably huge And-1 fans and like to say 'Wow, he can make it in the NBA after that dunk!'

[hawksdogsbraves]

Was Rose's no step vertical leap 40 inches?

[nolebball]

But yes, a 30 inch "no step" vert is hugely important. Arguably more important than a running vert. The "no step" means explosion!!! Explosion from any position on the floor which increases rebounding, shot blocking, put backs, ally oops, etc., etc. In short, a strong argument can be made that the "no step" is more important than the running vert.

Wall's reach is 3 inches longer than Rose, so, when counting his no step vert reach, it comes out to only inch and a half difference. So Wall is going to be getting the same amount of rebounds, blocks, put backs, alley oops, etc. etc. as Derrick Rose.

/thread

[bdreason]

This thread is retarded, even by ISH standards.

[Swaggin916]

Was Rose's no step vertical leap 40 inches?

Derrick Rose had a 34.5" standing vert and 40 inch max vert.

Basketball players are generally not particularly strong so their standing verts aren't too impressive. A 30 inch standing vert is pretty average... but Wall will post a 36" plus running vert... I'm guessing it's going to 38" just from looking at him.

Football players train for power and explosiveness though which is why you see a lot of 35"+ standing verts. Basketball is all plyometrics so you see a lot of good running verts. It's that simple. A guy like Derrick Rose would have a 40+ inch standing vert if he trained like a football player... he is a special athlete. There are those who are special athletes and they will have the freaky verts. A 33-34" standing vert and 36-38" running vert is doable for just about anyone though... you just have to train the right way and most people don't have a freaking clue.

[StroShow4]

"The skill of a player is based upon the height they jump"
-Gerald Green, James White, Joe Alexander, other scrubs.

:oldlol:

[nolebball]

Wall's reach is only 1 inch longer than that of Rose. Correction: 1 inch and some change. Definitely not 3 inches.

Standing reach is different from wingspan my friend.

John Wall standing reach = 101.5 inches
Derrick Rose standing reach = 98.5 inches

You're welcome to look yourself.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=2010&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&sort=4

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Derrick-Rose-1068/

Thank you and good day sir.

Edit: Deleting your post is useless because I quoted you :no:

[TheTruth11]

Standing reach is different from wingspan my friend.

John Wall standing reach = 101.5 inches
Derrick Rose standing reach = 98.5 inches

You're welcome to look yourself.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=2010&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&sort=4

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Derrick-Rose-1068/

Thank you and good day sir.

Rose = 6.8 wingspan

Wall = 6.9 1/4 wingspan

But there is no question that Rose is explosive!!!!

And Wall isn't

Just like I predicted, Wall has no hopps. Vastly overrated athletically. Still, he has a chance to be a very good basketball player.... maybe even great (in time). But he is definitely not a "freak athlete".

....

[unbreakable]

for a player as quick and explosive as john wall is, im almost positive his standing vert is pennies compared to his running vert..

this guy is a MONSTER athlete who can posterized almost anyone (jerry stackhouse 6'7 former nbaplayer)... anyone thinking otherwise needs to be checked in the head (with john walls nuts as he posters u)

[nolebball]

Rose = 6.8 wingspan

Wall = 6.9 1/4 wingspan

But there is no question that Rose is explosive!!!!

And Wall isn't

Just like I predicted, Wall has no hopps. Vastly overrated athletically. Still, he has a chance to be a very good basketball player.... maybe even great. But he is definitely not a "freak athlete".

....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4319898853_234cde51dc_o.jpg

Why did I bother?

[plowking]

I'll bet anything he smashes Rose's sprint and agility test figures.

LOL at thinking athlete ends at just jumping.

[TheTruth11]

I'll bet anything he smashes Rose's sprint and agility test figures.

LOL at thinking athlete ends at just jumping.

Like someone else said earlier and I paraphrase, "he may be a a freak athlete in the track athlete mold but not in mold that is accorded basketball players".

We now know he can't jump higher than Rose, we know he is not as explosive as Rose, and we know he does not have the "first step" that Rose has. But he may edge Rose out in straightline speed. That may be the only thing he gets an edge on. But even that is in question because Rose posted one of the fastest speed times in the history of the Camp. So even that remains to be seen.

Bottom line, possessing good straightline speed and nothing else does not make you a "freak athlete". And Wall has only that. Rose has that and more.

....

[brandonislegend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5UpQl18OOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw&feature=related

I wish I had a 30 inch vertical....

[Lebron23]

30" vert = no step vert

Wall probably has a 37-38" running vert.

[pahisc]

And these recorded measurables are important why...?

Oh right, Nate Robinson is the best player in the NBA and Steve Nash is garbage.

[SEEBASS1234]

oh so low vertical translates into a bad/over-rated player. oh ok! perfect logic

[ZenMaster]

This thread is retarded, even by ISH standards.

This.

[mlh1981]

This seems on par with the NFL's 40-yard dash. Jerry Rice ran a slow 40, and look what he did. Measure a guy's heart and watch his game.

[Chalkmaze]

Over-rating hops and under-rating basketball IQ and skill, is why guys like John Stockton get picked 16th.

[Go Getter]

Why don't people read?

I knew there would be at least 5 posters that say "oh well so-and-so can't jump and they are good and so-and-so can jump and they suck."

The OP clearly stated that Wall has the potential to be great but reports of him being the most athletic PG ever were severly overstated.

He is overrated as an athlete and as a basketball player IMO...people acted like they hadn't seen Penny, Francis, Iverson, or Davis in college.

With that said I agree with the Wall nut-huggers....some athletes perform better when they aren't THINKING about running or jumping so combine tests are good but not a total assessment of what will happen in the game.

[Go Getter]

lol comedy ..

#s wise i bet Rose beats out Wade. but watch them on the court, Wade is clearly more of a freak athlete. Wade probably doubles or triples the amount of dunks and blocks they get. And gets so many more "get out of your seat" type plays.

Theres more to bball than just combine numbers. Those highligh blocks and dunks by Wade is more timing and awareness rather than just athleticism.


Power.

Wade is probably the most powerful guard in the game.

[Go Getter]

oh so low vertical translates into a bad/over-rated player. oh ok! perfect logic


Just because someone is overrated doesn't mean that they are not good or even great.

YOU my friend, need to use logic.

Wall is overrated because pundits stated that he was the most athletic guard ever since Naismith hung the peach basket.

I was expecting to be blown away by his numbers/measurables.

[TheTruth11]

Why don't people read?

I knew there would be at least 5 posters that say "oh well so-and-so can't jump and they are good and so-and-so can jump and they suck."

The OP clearly stated that Wall has the potential to be great but reports of him being the most athletic PG ever were severly overstated.

He is overrated as an athlete and as a basketball player IMO...people acted like they hadn't seen Penny, Francis, Iverson, or Davis in college.

With that said I agree with the Wall nut-huggers....some athletes perform better when they aren't THINKING about jumping of running or jumping so combine tests are good but not a total assessment of what will happen in the game.


The Go Getter once again has the post of the day:bowdown: I couldn't agree more with this post. Why some on this board fail to simply read is beyond me.

[lefthook00]

Why don't people read?

I knew there would be at least 5 posters that say "oh well so-and-so can't jump and they are good and so-and-so can jump and they suck."

The OP clearly stated that Wall has the potential to be great but reports of him being the most athletic PG ever were severly overstated.

He is overrated as an athlete and as a basketball player IMO...people acted like they hadn't seen Penny, Francis, Iverson, or Davis in college.

With that said I agree with the Wall nut-huggers....some athletes perform better when they aren't THINKING about jumping of running or jumping so combine tests are good but not a total assessment of what will happen in the game.

Exactly. Ya'll musta forgot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rldM_N__7G8
That team was wild, off-the-backboard oops in a college game!!!

[WhySoInsecure?]

It's a no step vert and 30" is not a bad number. Westbrook also jumped 30"

[Go Getter]

It's a no step vert and 30" is not a bad number. Westbrook also jumped 30"


Again, no one is saying that he is a bad athlete--that is absurd.

The general sentiment from what I'm gathering is that he is overhyped as a 30inch vertical does not coincide with reports that he is the best athlete at PG ever.

I can't remember who said it but someone said that while Wall's highlights look good, he isn't on par with the leagues explosive leapers....it LOOKS like it because he is so long about the arms.

Doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things...Mutumbo couldn't jump but he blocked all sorts of shot with his long arms...

When someone is so hyped they are bound to meet staunch criticism.

[Rosewood]

And Evan Turner dont have a 34.5 in. no step....that was a misprint.....his no step vert is like 27.5 in. which you can see if you watched him jump

[Go Getter]

And Evan Turner dont have a 34.5 in. no step....that was a misprint.....his no step vert is like 27.5 in. which you can see if you watched him jump


Where can I see the jumping measurables at? When I went to draftexpress they didn't hve them posted.

[Rowe]

A lot of people have too high of expectations for John Wall, hes a good looking prospect but at the PG position you are almost bound to have criticism in your rookie season. He would have the highest Turnover average for a #1 pick, he has the highest average of Turnovers for a player in this draft anyways.

We also saw him get exposed in the NCAA Tournament, when you take away his lane to the basket, how effective is he with the ball in his hands?

He played 36 minutes against Cornell and finished the game with 8 points. That has nothing to do with Chris ****ing Worblewski being a great defender, it has to do with them forcing Wall into situations where he has to take a bad shot or give up the ball. Nothing worse than a PG who likes the 3, but isn't a good 3 point shooter.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iLS--EW8Tto/S46iuRaAjbI/AAAAAAAABRM/ATbr_SLhQK8/s400/baron-davis-beard.jpg

[Rowe]

And Evan Turner dont have a 34.5 in. no step....that was a misprint.....his no step vert is like 27.5 in. which you can see if you watched him jump

Turner isn't a freakish athlete either, hes not that quick, and hes not that strong.

[Rosewood]

Where can I see the jumping measurables at? When I went to draftexpress they didn't hve them posted.
they dont have them posted yet.....its basically what Im sayin from actually watching the jump, and sayin to myself that didnt even hit 30"....and then they said his best jump no step was 10' 11" and his standing reach is 8' 7.5" which would equal a 27.5 in. no step vert.....then they came out with the 34.5 number which was ludicrous.....

[Go Getter]

He played 36 minutes against Cornell and finished the game with 8 points. That has nothing to do with Chris ****ing Worblewski

:oldlol:

Is that really the name of the guy that guarded him?

Reminds me of the pictures my friend [who went to Xavier] has of him guarding Greg Oden.

[Go Getter]

they dont have them posted yet.....its basically what Im sayin from actually watching the jump, and sayin to myself that didnt even hit 30"....and then they said his best jump no step was 10' 11" and his standing reach is 8' 7.5" which would equal a 27.5 in. no step vert.....then they came out with the 34.5 number which was ludicrous.....


Then how do we know Wall's vert was 30 inches?

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

I won't comment until i see all the numbers. I want to see end to end speed in the 3/4 th sprint before i comment i expect it to be sub 3 seconds though. He is the fastest player i have ever seen end to end.

[Rowe]

:oldlol:

Is that really the name of the guy that guarded him?

Reminds me of the pictures my friend [who went to Xavier] has of him guarding Greg Oden.

Yep. They were switching on and off him though with 2 different defenders, Louis Dale was the other guy. Donahue had a great strategy to defeat Kentucky, they just couldn't matchup with their talented big men.

A lot of people make Derrick Rose comparisons for John Wall but thats not a good comparison. Rose is faster, stronger, more athletic, has a higher PG IQ, and uses that to be as effective as he is in the NBA. When he develops a consistent jump shot, he'll be tough to stop.

John Wall is more explosive than Rose, and is a better defender.

[Chalkmaze]

After a somewhat disappointing 30-inch mark in the no-step vertical, the 2010 SEC player of the year from the University of Kentucky gathered himself for his two-step vertical test and then nearly jumped out of the gym

[QUOTE]Wall

[Rosewood]

Then how do we know Wall's vert was 30 inches?
that was "unofficial" also....but from the eye test, it looked accurate to me....

[Rosewood]

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/2010-nba-draft-combine-john-wall-better-than-competition

/end ****ing thread
yep...his runnin vert looked 40+ to me with the eye test....his last jump he got up with his left hand and got to the 43"....

[Go Getter]

John Wall is more explosive than Rose, and is a better defender.

How is he more explosive when Rose jumps 4 inches higher on the no step vert?

How is he a better defender when he gets toasted by WV's back up PG while Rose dominated guards like Collison, Augustine, and the like?

I really think Wall has the POTENTIAL to be a better defender than Rose but I have to see it first.

43 inch vert is bonkers...but 3.1 in the 25 yard isn't...Sonny Weems posted 2.96 and Rose had 3.05 IIRC.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/2010-nba-draft-combine-john-wall-better-than-competition

/end ****ing thread

This thread gets the fail of the year. Anybody with eyes can see that John Wall is a true freak of nature. 43 max vertical. That's the biggest difference between a standing vert and max vertical in NBA history surpassing that of none other thatn OJ Mayo had a 10.5 inch difference when he recorded a 41 inch max.

3.1 seconds that has to be a rounded number. He may have ran faster end to end time than Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose :bowdown:

I am looking at reports and it said that he has recorded a 43.5 inch vertical before mix that with his 8'6 standing he can touch a 12 ft goal and he isn't even 6'3 :bowdown:

[Rowe]

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/2010-nba-draft-combine-john-wall-better-than-competition

/end ****ing thread

These workouts are irrelevant, the NBA combine is a joke. People are actually basing whether or not a player can be good in the NBA off of how they measure out doing drills?

The NBA Combine should've been nothing more than 5 on 5 tournaments, arrange players on a team and have them play against each other. This is how they determine the top high school players. We would get to see how they fit on the court around guys they've never played with, and whether some players are capable of sacrificing their game to play a role. For example, would a guy like Jordan Crawford sacrfice looking for his shot and focusing on shutting down his man on defense? Teams want to see that.

Then after a 5 on 5 tournament winner is crowned, have them run through these workouts. Anybody can look good running drills when they prepared that day to do so, lets see how well you can jump, lift, and run after playing for about 40 minutes.

[Go Getter]

This thread gets the fail of the year. Anybody with eyes can see that John Wall is a true freak of nature. 43 max vertical. That's the biggest difference between a standing vert and max vertical in NBA history surpassing that of none other thatn OJ Mayo had a 10.5 inch difference when he recorded a 41 inch max.

3.1 seconds that has to be a rounded number. He may have ran faster end to end time than Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose :bowdown:

I am looking at reports and it said that he has recorded a 43.5 inch vertical before mix that with his 8'6 standing he can touch a 12 ft goal and he isn't even 6'3 :bowdown:

30 inch standing vert and 3.1 in the sprint...

Sonny Weems posted a 2.96.....so what does that mean?

[FindingTim]

"The skill of a player is based upon the height they jump"
-Gerald Green, James White, Joe Alexander, other scrubs.

awesome.

by the way, I am stealing this quote idea for other applicable situations. :pimp:

[Rowe]

How is he more explosive when Rose jumps 4 inches higher on the no step vert?
Rose doesn't go for as many highlight plays as Wall goes for, when Wall attacks the basket hes looking for a highlight play.


How is he a better defender when he gets toasted by WV's back up PG while Rose dominated guards like Collison, Augustine, and the like?
How did Wall get toasted by Mazulla? There was not 1 game this entire season where you could point to Wall getting outplayed by the opposing PG.

When he defended them, they did not score as much or were as effective as they are when not guarded by him. Devan Downey went 9-29 with Wall on him. Wall is a superior defender at this point than Rose was, Wall also offered playmaking ability to disrupt passes by getting the steal, and changing the momentum of the game.

[northwinds]

Thank goodness that Wall isn't white.....that would be the end of his NBA career....LOL

[Go Getter]

Rose doesn't go for as many highlight plays as Wall goes for, when Wall attacks the basket hes looking for a highlight play.


How did Wall get toasted by Mazulla? There was not 1 game this entire season where you could point to Wall getting outplayed by the opposing PG.

When he defended them, they did not score as much or were as effective as they are when not guarded by him. Devan Downey went 9-29 with Wall on him. Wall is a superior defender at this point than Rose was, Wall also offered playmaking ability to disrupt passes by getting the steal, and changing the momentum of the game.


No doubt that Wall goes for more :eek: plays than Rose and may also complete more. Explosion though, imo, has a lot to do with strength and power and Rose is superior in that avenue.

Did you watch the game vs. WV? Mazulla hit Wall up from several crucial buckets...the one I recall Mazulla crossed Wall with no problem and proceeded to take him to the rack like HE was the potential #1 pick.

I'm just saying.

But I do agree that Wall has the upside to be a better defender than Rose though.

[Rosewood]

3.1 seconds that has to be a rounded number. He may have ran faster end to end time than Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose :bowdown:


it was rounded up....he ran a 3.14 unofficial.....

[TheTruth11]

Bottom Line: By the time John Wall quote un quote "gathers himself" and gets his running start to go up and get the ball, someone with an explosive "no step" vert has already gone up and gotten it.

I can get there before you can. You are not sudden!!! Johnny Wall lacks the ability to be sudden!!!

The "no step" vertical is arguably more important than the "running" vertical. A great no step vert allows you to block more shots, rebound the ball, get more put backs, more ally oops, etc. etc. A guy with a tremendous "no step" vert is sitting on a keg of dynamite at all times.

Also, in the half court set (something you must do well in the NBA), the "no step" is more important. The "no step" vert is obviously used more in the half court set.

But in reality, a guy with a tremendous "no step" vert is dangerous from anyplace on the floor. A guy without this asset needs help.... Wall needs help... he needs the help of being able to run first.... in being able to gather himself first.

Guys like that are simply not great athletes. Guys who have to gather themselves first. And to post a 30??? A 30???!!!!:eek: Wow.... no dynamite here. More like dude is a dud.

[Rowe]

No doubt that Wall goes for more :eek: plays than Rose and may also complete more. Explosion though, imo, has a lot to do with strength and power and Rose is superior in that avenue.
I base it on how quick they get to the basket and how they finish, when Wall gets to the basket hes looking to finish not pass it out like Rose sometimes does. That imo makes him an explosive player, someone who does things like this on the regular, Rose has the ability but doesn't do it as much.


Did you watch the game vs. WV? Mazulla hit Wall up from several crucial buckets...the one I recall Mazulla crossed Wall with no problem and proceeded to take him to the rack like HE was the potential #1 pick.
It happens. So you're basing Mazulla beating Wall to the basket as a reason why Wall isn't a good defender? So 1 or 2 plays outweighs 30-35 games where Wall limited the effectiveness of his man on offense.

Rose got outplayed by AJ Price once, that didn't change how good he was defensively in the rest of his games.

[TheTruth11]

My earlier post may have been a bit harsh but you get my point. Having to gather himself first puts him at a severe disadvantage. But still, let it be said for the record, that I do believe that he can still be a very good basketball player.

[nolebball]

Vince Carter, Jamario Moon, and Nate Robinson are the only other players besides Wall now to ever record a 43 inch max vert in the combine (Robinson had 43.5). Would you consider them freak athletes?

[Rowe]

Vince Carter, Jamario Moon, and Nate Robinson are the only other players besides Wall now to ever record a 43 inch max vert in the combine (Robinson had 43.5). Would you consider them freak athletes?
No. Moon can only jump high, because he doesn't have a mix of strength and speed to go along with it.

Nate Robinson is a football player playing basketball, hes quick, strong, and has a high vertical but hes still only 5'9 at best.

Vince Carter on the other hand was a freak athlete.

[pahisc]

You Chicago fans are ****ing retards, seriously. You guys need to pull all this crap just so that your man-crush Derrick Rose can be "the most athletic point guard". Get a ****ing spine, Derrick Rose doesn't give a shit about you, he's not going on a date with you. Someone busts out a superior running vert and now it's "running vert doesn't mean anything!". These statistics don't mean anything, and athleticism isn't the only thing that factors into potential.

[abuC]

Bottom Line: By the time John Wall quote un quote "gathers himself" and gets his running start to go up and get the ball, someone with an explosive "no step" vert has already gone up and gotten it.

I can get there before you can. You are not sudden!!! Johnny Wall lacks the ability to be sudden!!!

The "no step" vertical is arguably more important than the "running" vertical. A great no step vert allows you to block more shots, rebound the ball, get more put backs, more ally oops, etc. etc. A guy with a tremendous "no step" vert is sitting on a keg of dynamite at all times.

Also, in the half court set (something you must do well in the NBA), the "no step" is more important. The "no step" vert is obviously used more in the half court set.

But in reality, a guy with a tremendous "no step" vert is dangerous from anyplace on the floor. A guy without this asset needs help.... Wall needs help... he needs the help of being able to run first.... in being able to gather himself first.

Guys like that are simply not great athletes. Guys who have to gather themselves first. And to post a 30??? A 30???!!!!:eek: Wow.... no dynamite here. More like dude is a dud.


Your logic is severely flawed, how often is Wall going to be standing still and jumping without a gather? He's a PG, not a big man, there will be very few times he'll be standing flat footed and trying to jump without a gather. And even then, his freak-ish standing reach makes up for his lack of explosion off a no-step jump.

[LA_Showtime]

John Wall's jumping abilities have never really stood out to me. What I've come to appreciate about his game include the following:

- Speed, quickness, agility

- The mentality to take over a game

- Leadership

[Younggrease]

My earlier post may have been a bit harsh but you get my point. Having to gather himself first puts him at a severe disadvantage. But still, let it be said for the record, that I do believe that he can still be a very good basketball player.

He just doesnt train for a standstill verticle leap test...People who care about verticle measurements no very little about the game. I have watched John Wall enough to say that he is a top tier NBA athlete. I dont need some numbers to back that up, I have seen it enough. I have seen Wall go end to end on the college level like few have EVER done.

[nolebball]

No. Moon can only jump high, because he doesn't have a mix of strength and speed to go along with it.

Nate Robinson is a football player playing basketball, hes quick, strong, and has a high vertical but hes still only 5'9 at best.

Vince Carter on the other hand was a freak athlete.

Alright, does Wall not have a mix of stength and speed to go along with it?

[Rowe]

Alright, does Wall not have a mix of stength and speed to go along with it?
Speed, not strength.

[RaininThrees]

Bottom Line: By the time John Wall quote un quote "gathers himself" and gets his running start to go up and get the ball, someone with an explosive "no step" vert has already gone up and gotten it.

I can get there before you can. You are not sudden!!! Johnny Wall lacks the ability to be sudden!!!

The "no step" vertical is arguably more important than the "running" vertical. A great no step vert allows you to block more shots, rebound the ball, get more put backs, more ally oops, etc. etc. A guy with a tremendous "no step" vert is sitting on a keg of dynamite at all times.

Also, in the half court set (something you must do well in the NBA), the "no step" is more important. The "no step" vert is obviously used more in the half court set.

But in reality, a guy with a tremendous "no step" vert is dangerous from anyplace on the floor. A guy without this asset needs help.... Wall needs help... he needs the help of being able to run first.... in being able to gather himself first.

Guys like that are simply not great athletes. Guys who have to gather themselves first. And to post a 30??? A 30???!!!!:eek: Wow.... no dynamite here. More like dude is a dud.

Please explain to me when in a half court set a PG is going to be performing a no-step leap.

[jbot]

"The skill of a player is based upon the height they jump"
-Gerald Green, James White, Joe Alexander, other scrubs.
don't forget David Noel. there is way more to being a productive player in the league than how high u jump.

[Chalkmaze]

You'all laughed and said that I didn't know what I was talking about. I predicted right here on this Board.... He will not leap higher than 36.5 on his max. But I knew it. Dude has no bounce.
like I said, a bit "heavy legged"

you win some, you lose some

[Lebron23]

don't forget David Noel. there is way more to being a productive player in the league than how high u jump.


He won the Dunk Contest, and All Star Game MVP here in the Philippines.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8400/spo5hires.jpg

[jbot]

He won the Dunk Contest, and All Star Game MVP here in the Philippines.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8400/spo5hires.jpg
:bowdown:

[BlueandGold]

wow Lebron23 I thought you killed yourself. What do you think of Lebron's game 5 vs the Celtics? Sorry to stray off topic.

[Lebron23]

wow Lebron23 I thought you killed yourself. What do you think of Lebron's game 5 vs the Celtics? Sorry to stray off topic.

He had a triple double in Game 6. LeBron was not even trying in Game 5.

[OnceInADECADE]

He had a triple double in Game 6. LeBron was not even trying in Game 5.

TRUE THAT

[Lebron23]

I am a huge Derrick Rose, and Chris Paul fan, but I think John Wall has the potential to become the best PG in the League.

[LA_Showtime]

I am a huge Derrick Rose, and Chris Paul fan, but I think John Wall has the potential to become the best PG in the League.

You're a huge Derrick Rose? Interesting.

[Go Getter]

I base it on how quick they get to the basket and how they finish, when Wall gets to the basket hes looking to finish not pass it out like Rose sometimes does. That imo makes him an explosive player, someone who does things like this on the regular, Rose has the ability but doesn't do it as much.


It happens. So you're basing Mazulla beating Wall to the basket as a reason why Wall isn't a good defender? So 1 or 2 plays outweighs 30-35 games where Wall limited the effectiveness of his man on offense.

Rose got outplayed by AJ Price once, that didn't change how good he was defensively in the rest of his games.

1. I don't agree. Rose goes to the hole and finishes better than anyone I've seen in a Bull's uniform. Rarely do I see him go into the air looking to pass.

2. No. By all accounts Mazulla gave Wall the business. AJ Price was a veteran guard who had a little pub...Mazulla is a relative unknown...I didn't use one example to support my point I was just saying that Wall was not a defensive player in college like a RW...so I have to SEE him do that to believe he will be better than average.

3. Wall seems like he has a better pro game than college one so to speak so maybe he does develop into one...and he may very well show us things that he's never done before...I will be waiting and watching...

[Go Getter]

What annoys me the most is that by pumping up Wall so much people are essentially disrespecting Westbrook, CP3, Rondo, Rose, Jennings, and the like.

Every last one of them has the potential to be the best including Wall.

But putting Wall on the top before he even suits up is a recipe for him to be called a bust.

:confusedshrug:

[Eggy]

Four minutes of John Wall not exploding. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw&feature=related)
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Look at that dribble sequence at 2:50... ****ing shit...

[Younggrease]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfINBYmGD1A&feature=fvst

just look at 1:28, that isnt teachable. All that agility and speed plus the ability to finish over the rim with a dunk, not many pgs in the world can do that. Actually, I doubt there are more then 3.

also look at 2:23

[Go Getter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfINBYmGD1A&feature=fvst

just look at 1:28, that isnt teachable. All that agility and speed plus the ability to finish over the rim with a dunk, not many pgs in the world can do that. Actually, I doubt there are more then 3.

also look at 2:23

Huh? Man that really wasn't impressive.

I've seen players do that in HS obviously they weren't as talented as Wall but you guys act like he's doing 720 dunks out there.

I'm convinced that some of you never saw Davis or Francis play in college.

[Younggrease]

Huh? Man that really wasn't impressive.

I've seen players do that in HS obviously they weren't as talented as Wall but you guys act like he's doing 720 dunks out there.

I'm convinced that some of you never saw Davis or Francis play in college.

what this guy was doing was far more impressive than 720 dunks(which are not impressive in a basketball sense), this guy is running past whole teams, EURO STEPPING and then finishing with DUNKS from the pg position. Who else does that?

players in highschool do that against high school comp, he is doing that against top college players. Davis and Francis are two of the most athletic point guards of all time no one every said Wall was of that mold, although he is faster then both of those guys by a good deal.

[Go Getter]

what this guy was doing was far more impressive than 720 dunks(which are not impressive in a basketball sense), this guy is running past whole teams, EURO STEPPING and then finishing with DUNKS from the pg position. Who else does that?

players in highschool do that against high school comp, he is doing that against top college players. Davis and Francis are two of the most athletic point guards of all time no one every said Wall was of that mold, although he is faster then both of those guys by a good deal.

1. That wasn't a eurostep.

2. How many players WANT to do that? I thought him going behind the back, catching it, and finishing with a dunk was more impressive and I would say that only a select few PG's can do that [and he did it in HS]....I just don't think that the play you pointed out was that special other than him running fast.

3. He has proven to me so far that he's an elite athlete and a superior passer. Nothing else in his game really impresses me though I need to see his handle in the pros....I know you really don't get to see the whole arsenal in college.

[Younggrease]

1. That wasn't a eurostep.
2. How many players WANT to do that? I thought him going behind the back, catching it, and finishing with a dunk was more impressive and I would say that only a select few PG's can do that [and he did it in HS]....I just don't think that the play you pointed out was that special other than him running fast.

3. He has proven to me so far that he's an elite athlete and a superior passer. Nothing else in his game really impresses me though I need to see his handle in the pros....I know you really don't get to see the whole arsenal in college.

your right, wrong play...I cant seem to find the vid of it again. Im confused, if you think he is an elite athlete then why argue over combine numbers.

[Go Getter]

your right, wrong play...I cant seem to find the vid of it again. Im confused, if you think he is an elite athlete then why argue over combine numbers.


Not arguing over numbers, just hype.

It started out and I got kinda aggy because I really didn't see anything more than an impressive athlete...solid pro definitely, crazy potential.

But how many players can you say that about every single year?

Every year there will be a one and done player that wows everyone.

Wall's potential in college was no more or less than any other #1 pick at the time the only thing is it's been a minute since I've heard a PG reminds someon of Magic and is the most athletic ever....not one of, THE.

So I was really hard on the kid when he came to Kentucky but I can't hate dude balled out he's a stud I can't deny it.

But I'm not a san like the rest of the basketball world ready to jump all in the car with him so I can look like a genius and the first one to drive the 'new Lambo.'

He has a lot of holes in his game.

and more importantly...

He also has a lot of hype to live up to thanks to these youtube stans and nut hungry pundits...

If he doesn't win rookie of the year and go to an ASG and lead his team to the playoffs soon there are going to be a lot of people turning on him.

Right now I feel hopeful and encouraged. I think Wall will be a great player but who knows how good really? Even if he's top 5 some people won't like his game. Or maybe he does have a few years like Kobe or Lebron where it is clear he's the best player in the league at any position.

[lilojmayo]

John Wall's athletism has become the biggest myth in awhile. I made a quick video of the 08' draft class combine height measurments since their was a huge deal on Michael Beasley's height, since that was the first year I visually saw the combine. I have this combine on my DVR, I think i'll make a quick clip of John Wall stuff, to seperate the facts from the myth.

First the combine shows raw athletism, it shows strength, explosivesness, lateral quickness, jumping ability, wingspan, height, just like in the NFL. It doesn't show how good a dunker or poster/highlight dunker you are or how fast you are with the ball, or how quick your crossovers are, all the hype around Wall basically etc etc.

I'll start of by saying John Wall's raw athletism is not better in Derrick Rose's. Rose is truely a freak raw athlete, John wall is more of a freak physically then athletically. In terms of winspan and standing reach of his height. His raw athletism is almost identical to than of OJ Mayo, something fans and media don't want to hear, but Wall has physical gifts over Mayo like standing reach and winspan that make him into a walking highlight reel on the basketball court.

Where Rose is really comparable to that of an NFL player imo, especially when you factor in strength. The only thing Rose struggled with at the combine was the agility test, and if you watch how the agility test it is something Rose would struggle with. It is basically how fast you move your feet in a defensive stand, Rose has never been known for his on the ball defense.

Keep in mind that i watched all of these players combine, I am not going off internet numbers

Height in shoes, standing reach, wingspan:

Derrick Rose: 6'2.5 ft, 8'2.5 ft. 6'8 ft
John Wall: 6'4 ft, 8'5.5 ft, 6'9.25 ft
OJ Mayo: 6'4.25 ft, 8'3.5 ft, 6'6 ft

First and foremost it is obvious that Wall has a physical advantage over both of them. Wall 8'5.5 ft standing reach is one of the highest if not the highest i have ever seen at the combine for a guy sub 6'3 ( 6'2. 75). most guys 6'2-6'3 guys barefoot standing reaches are between 7'10-8'3 ft, so for him to have an 8'6 ft reach thats really high, means he has a high set of shoulders and long arms, pretty much an ideal body for being a dunker at that size.

Standing Vertical:

John Wall: 30 inches
OJ Mayo: 30.5 inches
Derrick Rose: 34.5 inches

The thing that caught my eye with Derrick Rose's standing jump compared to Wall's was how low Derrick Rose was to the ground and how fast he used his arms to propel up. He had perfect techinque. Wall on the other hand didn't look anything like that. He didn't explode like Rose did. Evan Turner when did the side by side with Wall and you could just see how much more explosive Turner jumped. Turner had a 34.5 standing vert i believe. Wall was given it his all on every drill, he simply lacked that type of raw explosiveness of a standstill.

30 inches from a standstill is nothing to be ashamed about it is above average for an athletic person. Wall is still getting 11'0 ft a whole foot over the rim because of his standing reach and arm length. That's where his physical gifts come into play when you compare him to OJ or Rose.

Max Vertical:

Derrick Rose: 40.0 inches
OJ Mayo: 41.0 inches
John Wall: 43.0 inches

Here is probably the most talked about athletic test in basketball, comparable to footballs 40 yrd test.

Here is the biggest myth about the test, that you get to "run" before you jump or something of that nature. When i think run i'm thinking you get to start from like halfcourt running start to the marker, so a lot of the times I here when are you ever going to be able to use your max in a game.

What the max vertical really is it basically what is it a max vertical . It is like beginning able to take 2 steps before you jump. Comparable to drop step dunk or dribbling the ball one time without traveling and dunking it. There is NO RUNNING, so if you can only jump off one foot while literally running you could struggle with this and it is very easy to reach to max vertical in a game.
Now with all 3 players i said they looked like they jumped out of the building, but with Wall he really got up. He got so high they were only like 2-3 markers untouched. His max reach is 7-8 higher than Rose, again his physical gifts come into play.

Running Vertical is what that is you get to run an unlimited amount of times before you jump. The last marker is 12'6 at the combine i believe, because it is almost impossible for anybody to touch that including Dwight Howard on a max vertical. However in a running vertical guys like James White can touch 12'11 because he has done it before. To sum it up running vertical>max vertical.

Now that this has been clarified it is very easy to see why a guy like Westbrook have sub 40 max verticals, but probably have 40 inch running verticals.

3/4 Court Sprint aka 25 yard Dash:

OJ Mayo: 3.14 seconds
John Wall:3.14 seconds
Derrick Rose: 3.05 seconds

Obviously it is hard to eye ball how fast someone is going running alone, for such a short distanct that only hundredths seperate ppl. One thing was clear though he doesn't have Derrick Rose north and south speed. Rose went to state championships in track and field in high school i believe for 100 m dash i think. I read something like that. I honestly think Rose is so much faster than Wall is that if they raced in 100 m because of Rose's speed and background in track that Wall would never win.

They didn't say what his agility was when he did the test, but Wall went fast, they did say it was one of the fastest at the combine, just like OJ Mayo had one of the fastest agility times at the combine a lot faster than Rose,


Conclusion:

John Wall's raw athletism is not only comparable, but pretty much identical to OJ Mayo. Which is nothing to be ashamed about i've seen all the numbers it is better than 90% of players that have participated in the combine since the year 2000 when they really started keeping tabs on this thing.

Guys like Derrick Rose, LeBron James, Nate Robinson are on a completely different level of raw athletism than John Wall, OJ Mayo, and Russell Westbrook in that tier as well.

Derrick Rose is truely a one of a kind NBA athlete that only happens once or twice in a decade, and that is what the NBA combine has shown. Saying Wall is more athletic than Rose would be like someone having a higher IQ, but since he has a lower GPA that means he isn't as smart as another person with a higher GPA. Like you know GPA depends on if you do H/W and pay attention or not at least in middle school. Just like highlight dunking is more than jumping ability.

John Wall is one of a kind specimen when you factor in everything. His physical traits for his height mixed with his 90% percentile athletism, his on the court skills, ball handling, ability to keep top speed with the ball in his hands and is aggresiveness some people call it being out of control. Not only could it fool you to thinking he is the more athletic then the most athletic guard in the league, but it equals walking highlight reel like he is known for, which will be fun for all nba fans to watch.

Such a long post, but i had to seperate facts from myths.

To sum it up in one sentence: Derrick Rose is on a different level of raw athletism than John Wall and there is no shame in that.

[BirmingHamBama]

To sum it up in one sentence: Derrick Rose is on a different level of raw athletism than John Wall and there is no shame in that.

Amazing post man! lilojmayo is the best poster on this forum hands down. You are the reason that I decided to join insidehoops man. I want to change my handle to lillilojmayo. It's nice to have posters who are actually diligent in researching their facts and make insightful postst.:bowdown: :bowdown:

[lilojmayo]

Amazing post man! lilojmayo is the best poster on this forum hands down. You are the reason that I decided to join insidehoops man. I want to change my handle to lillilojmayo. It's nice to have posters who are actually diligent in researching their facts and make insightful postst.:bowdown: :bowdown:

I just try to tell it as it is.

In terms on the court production etc everybody is on a different playing field your first few years in NBA. Stats might be inflated if they are the go to guy right away due to the lack of players around you like Tyreke Evans or having an uptempo system like Steph Curry.

Your stats may be deflated if you play in a defensive orientated grind it out team or playing with a bunch of ball hogs

Then after 4 or 5 years when your skill and game gets somewhat established then for the most part it is far to compare guys.

However in the combine, everybody is on a equal playing field in what they can show athletically right away, so it is very fair to compare.

[brandonislegend]

This thread has fail written all over it

[HBKMGa]

You'all laughed and said that I didn't know what I was talking about. I predicted right here on this Board that John Wall would not post higher than 30 on his vert. I was shouted down. Now word comes that he posted 30!!!

Where is OJMamba??? I had a bet with him. Come on out OJMamba, don't hide now.

And somewhat surprisingly Evan Turner posted a higher vert of 34.5:eek:

I predicted John Wall would post a 30 no step vert and 36.5 max vert. I am halfway home. He will not leap higher than 36.5 on his max.

And wow wow wow..... 30 is extremely poor. But I knew it. Dude has no bounce.


I knew that reports of his athleticism were vastly overrated. I could tell that Wall was kind of "heavy legged" and lacked the ability to be "sudden!" I could just see it in his game. Not a quick leaper, not explosive.... like I said, a bit "heavy legged". That said, when it is all said and done, he can still end up being a great basketball player.


...

john wall is a top 10 of all time overrated player

[SATAN]

Looked pretty good in the game against the Timberwolves.