Who was the Most Overrated Star Guard in the 2000's decade?

[OptimusPrime1]

On another site a lot of people said that Vince Carter and Allen Iverson were the most overrated stars of the decade. Some said Kobe, some said T-Mac, some said Ray Allen, a lot has been said.

To you who has been the most overrated star this decade?

[Younggrease]

Vince Carter

[Bigsmoke]

Jerry Stackhouse was kinda overrated. cant think of anyone else at the moment.

[OnceInADECADE]

I got either Carter or Jerry Stackhouse. Not Kobe only if people say he is a top ten player

[raptorfan_dr07]

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo66/SNOWMAN6188/KOBE.jpg

And it isn't even close. NOBODY can say otherwise. Just read some of the threads and posts on this forum alone.

[elementally morale]

I'm sad to say this but among real stars it was McGrady. People will remember Vince for his dunks and Iverson for his scoring, but as good as he was for a rather short time, there isn't much to remember about McGrady.

Most overrated guard however was Marbury.

[PP34Deuce]

Jerry Stackhouse. I remember during those Piston years before the championships, he was always considered top 3-4 over Paul Pierce,and Tmac. We shut him down that series and he was never the same.

Mike friggin Bibby! He had that amazing run against the lakers and then got overpaid,and shippe dout

[Freshprince619]

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo66/SNOWMAN6188/KOBE.jpg

And it isn't even close. NOBODY can say otherwise. Just read some of the threads and posts on this forum alone.
You can't overrate the GOAT :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Freshprince619]

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii264/codymartin44/act_allen_iverson.jpg

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'm sad to say this but among real stars it was McGrady. People will remember Vince for his dunks and Iverson for his scoring, but as good as he was for a rather short time, there isn't much to remember about McGrady.

Most overrated guard however was Marbury.

Not much to remember about T-Mac? He was very athletic, great length for a swingman, killer ball handling and passing skills, very good rebounder for his position, good long range and mid-range shooter who could really catch fire and as a result, in his short peak, he was a better scorer than Iverson.

Carter, was probably overrated as a Raptor and underrated as a Net. But most overrated? Probably Arenas.

[alwaysunny]

VC by far because of being so popular at the time. I don't remember Kobe being overrated since Shaq was the best Laker, and Iverson was a MVP and led his team to finals.

[zORi]

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii264/codymartin44/act_allen_iverson.jpg

This.

All speed, and that's it.

[PP34Deuce]

Not much to remember about T-Mac? He was very athletic, great length for a swingman, killer ball handling and passing skills, very good rebounder for his position, good long range and mid-range shooter who could really catch fire and as a result, in his short peak, he was a better scorer than Iverson.

he was the most explosive scorer next to Iverson and Kobe! People talk about Vince but Tmac had probably the most natural ability and size to be the one! I remember years ago they said it would be Kobe vs Tmac for the next 8 years.

How times change

[Batz]

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo66/SNOWMAN6188/KOBE.jpg

And it isn't even close. NOBODY can say otherwise. Just read some of the threads and posts on this forum alone.
Here they come...

[Yung D-Will]

Lmao at Allen Iverson being overrated :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[All Net]

Here they come...


Hardly a surprise coming from him.

[OnceInADECADE]

Lmao at Allen Iverson being overrated :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Yea they probaly just look at his stats and see his field goal and think he is overrated. That dude is a true baller he is like Kobe Bryant but the 5'11 version that dude was as tough as they come bro. Thats why he is my favourite player:bowdown:

[OnceInADECADE]

I'm sad to say this but among real stars it was McGrady. People will remember Vince for his dunks and Iverson for his scoring, but as good as he was for a rather short time, there isn't much to remember about McGrady.

Most overrated guard however was Marbury.

Marbury was sick bro. I guess you just remember his short stint with New York

[pete's montreux]

http://mediaswirl.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/stephonvick.jpg

[OnceInADECADE]

http://mediaswirl.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/stephonvick.jpg

r u ****ing kidding me

THIS DUDE RITE HERE IS OVERRATED LIKE ****
http://www.redwoodwd.net/two/brian/images/bd.jpg

[kurple]

Lmao at Allen Iverson being overrated :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
This!

[StacksOnDeck]

With Kobe, you can argue that he's underrated by the haters and overrated by his fans.

[Yung D-Will]

Allen Iverson was one of the greatest scorers the game has ever seen and also had one of the best crossovers of all time how quickly people forget. One of the hardest workers ON THE COURT put his body on the line night in and night out

[Yung D-Will]

These 2 players get my vote

http://izuzquiza.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/baron-davis.jpg
http://originaldc.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/gilbertarenas.jpg

[OnceInADECADE]

Steve Francis was overrated too. Could had been very sick but he f'ed up REAL TALKS BRO

[OnceInADECADE]

[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]These 2 players get my vote

http://izuzquiza.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/baron-davis.jpg
http://beat.bodoglife.com/wp-content/uploads/steve_francis_trail_blazers.jpg

FIXED

[VIP2000]

Marbury

[tommy3]

Baron Davis is legit. Though I remember that sick dunk on Kirilenko :O

[L.Kizzle]

Top 5 would be

Stackhouse
Marbury
Francis
Michael Redd
well that's not really 5 but oh well.

and lol at VC, Mac and AI being overrated, those guys were great in their time. Just cause they're not on the same lever they were at in the earlier part of the decade doesn't mean they're overrated.


Ray Allen most consistent.
Billups (might) be the most underrated
Arenes is the best (what could have been)


I thought Nash was overrated in Dallas more so than when he went back to the Suns.

[Yung D-Will]

[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]These 2 players get my vote

http://izuzquiza.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/baron-davis.jpg
http://beat.bodoglife.com/wp-content/uploads/steve_francis_trail_blazers.jpg

FIXED


http://izuzquiza.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/baron-davis.jpg
http://originaldc.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/gilbertarenas.jpg
http://beat.bodoglife.com/wp-content/uploads/steve_francis_trail_blazers.jpg


Fixed can't leave out chuckers are us himself(Gilbert I chuck for big bucks)

[alwaysunny]

Iverson was without a doubt the best guard in the league in early 2000s. mid-late 2000s Kobe was the best, and may still be now. you can't be overrated when you're the best player in the league. if we're talking all-time then yes, but that's a different story.

answer is easily Vince Carter. in his 3rd year he was dropping 27 a game shooting 40% from 3s, not to mention he's a GOAT dunker. are we forgetting he was compared to Jordan during those years? he hasn't achieved anything in Toronto. so he demands a trade and lands in NJ with Kidd and RJ. has he achieved anything there? forget the nets. how'd he do in Orlando? :cry:

[OnceInADECADE]

[QUOTE=OnceInADECADE]


http://izuzquiza.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/baron-davis.jpg
http://beat.bodoglife.com/wp-content/uploads/steve_francis_trail_blazers.jpg
http://www.rejuvalife.md/drblog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/fat-kid-single.jpg(could have been shaq 2.0 but was too lazy)
http://jumpedtheweis.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/the-walker-shimmy.jpg(lol i no he aint a guard but lol)

Fixed can't leave out chuckers are us himself(Gilbert I chuck for big bucks)

Fixed Sorry Gilbert was ****ing sick he was way better than baron and francis

[Showtime]

Mike friggin Bibby! He had that amazing run against the lakers and then got overpaid,and shippe dout
How is he overrated when he never even made an all star team? He was a clutch shooter and is probably one of the more underrated guards because he often matched or outplayed stars in the playoffs.

As for overrated, I would say Steve Francis or Nash.

[Yung D-Will]

[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]

Fixed Sorry Gilbert was ****ing sick he was way better than baron and francis

What Baron did against Dallas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything Gilbert has attempted in his career

[OnceInADECADE]

How is he overrated when he never even made an all star team? He was a clutch shooter and is probably one of the more underrated guards because he often matched or outplayed stars in the playoffs.

As for overrated, I would say Steve Francis or Nash.

naw Nash is good

[Younggrease]

Top 5 would be

Stackhouse
Marbury
Francis
Michael Redd
well that's not really 5 but oh well.

and lol at VC, Mac and AI being overrated, those guys were great in their time. Just cause they're not on the same lever they were at in the earlier part of the decade doesn't mean they're overrated.


Ray Allen most consistent.
Billups (might) be the most underrated
Arenes is the best (what could have been)


I thought Nash was overrated in Dallas more so than when he went back to the Suns.

VC was never great, he was the same frontrunner then as he is now...

[Showtime]

naw Nash is good
I never said he wasn't. There's a difference between "overrated" and "not good". A player can be good and overrated at the same time.

[Yung D-Will]

The only time I consider Nash overrated is when people honestly believe he was the best Pg of this decade whiles in my opinion it was clearly Kidd.

[OnceInADECADE]

[QUOTE=OnceInADECADE]

What Baron did against Dallas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything Gilbert has attempted in his career

r u kidding me it takes a team to beat a team. and don nelson was the master mind behind the upset if he wasnt the coach they would probaly get swept

[OnceInADECADE]

I never said he wasn't. There's a difference between "overrated" and "not good". A player can be good and overrated at the same time.

Yea True that ROGER THAT

[L.Kizzle]

VC was never great, he was the same frontrunner then as he is now...
OK, maybe I shouldn't say great but he wasn't Jerry Stackhouse or Michael Redd.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Probaly Kobe, but he is the best guard of 2000's decade:cheers:

[momo]

Was Ricky Davis a guard?

[L.Kizzle]

Was Ricky Davis a guard?
Yes, but he wasn't a star?

[redhonda76]

Steve Francis.
He was all athleticism. His lack of pg ability was badly exposed when Yao came to the picture. Poor IQ, lack of court vision, and lack of understanding in running a set offense really killed his stocks, and of course , injuries which robbed his athleticism doomed him.

[game3524]

Arenas, Francis, Davis, Redd, Stackhouse, and Marbury. Lmao at the jokers who think Kobe, AI, Vince, or McGrady are overrated. People forget how dominate AI and McGrady were in their primes, and Vince was overrated till he got traded to New Jersey, then he was a top 5 SG.

[OptimusPrime1]

Not much to remember about T-Mac? He was very athletic, great length for a swingman, killer ball handling and passing skills, very good rebounder for his position, good long range and mid-range shooter who could really catch fire and as a result, in his short peak, he was a better scorer than Iverson.

Carter, was probably overrated as a Raptor and underrated as a Net. But most overrated? Probably Arenas.
I agree with your Arenas part.

[AirJordan23]

Kobe isn't really overrated. He's just really that good. The insane n*thuggers are the only ones to overrate him by making the GOAT claims. Best player in the league for a few years and best guard in the league for several years.

TMac was overrated from '04-08. People kept making claims for him being as good as he was in the early '00s yet he was never healthy, lost his athleticism due to injuries and efficiency dropped by a huge margin. Wasn't as explosive. It backfired, though. He's been underrated ever since the Rockets made it to the second round without him. In general, he wasn't overrated. Kinda balances out. Also, he gets too much hate for not making it past the first round. You look at some of his playoff games, you'll see him playing his heart out. Dropped 40+ twice on a great defensive team like the '03 Pistons.

AI was overhyped from '00-03. Ever since, his hype considerably decreased. Someone said he was the best guard in the league in the early 2000s. Sorry to break it to you but he wasn't. Probably the best in 2001 but you can make a case for Bryant. Kidd and GP were better in 2000 and TMac/Kobe took over later on. He was definitely underrated post 2007, though. In general, I wouldn't call him overrated since his stock dropped a lot after the Detroit debacle. :oldlol: @ the idiot who said he was all speed btw.

VC is the only one you can make a legit case for being overrated although his stock around 2007-ish was at an all-time low since the Nets weren't really making deep runs with a pretty good core. East was weak as hell. They didn't have any interior defense/legit big man, though. And you can blame him for not giving 100% effort at all times. Case in point, 2004. Didn't live up to expectations in Orlando, either. His 2001 season is definitely underappreciated.

Jason Kidd isn't as good as his stats show but he isn't overrated at all. People overvalue the triple doubles a bit too much but he had great impact on the game in his prime despite his inability to shoot. I would say Nash was overrated but the past couple of years have definitely made me change my mind. Dallas years, Nash wasn't really overrated. The talk only started when he won his MVPs.

Wade isn't overrated at all. Neither is Billups. Stackhouse was overrated but he wasn't really a star guard for the entire decade. Only for a few years.

[t-rex]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/11/20/essay/Marbury.jpg


This guy.

[MagicalLA]

Gilbert Arenas has to be the one.

[momo]

Yes, but he wasn't a star?

True dat, but he did not know that.

[PowerGlove]

How was Gilbert overrated? Overpaid? Yes. Overrated? Not really. Everyone knew he was an electric scorer and that was pretty much it.

I hope he can turn it around though, I loved his game.

[PHILA]

This.

All speed, and that's it.

:ohwell:

[Yung D-Will]

How was Gilbert overrated? Overpaid? Yes. Overrated? Yes. Everyone knew he was a chucker and that was pretty much it.

I hope he can turn it around though, I loved his game.

Fixed that for you

[OnceInADECADE]

How was Gilbert overrated? Overpaid? Yes. Overrated? Not really. Everyone knew he was an electric scorer and that was pretty much it.

I hope he can turn it around though, I loved his game.

ROGER THAT

[JustinJDW]

I don't understand how Allen Iverson could be overrated when experts, analysts and even fans have been giving him nothing but shit since like 06.

Seriously, everyone talks shit about him, then they say he is overrated. What is it?

You definitely can't say he was overrated back in the early part of the decade, because that ***** was seriously balling back then.

Gilbert Arenas. Now that guy is overrated. I don't care that he was a 2nd Round Pick, he is overrated.

[gpfanz]

On another site a lot of people said that Vince Carter and Allen Iverson were the most overrated stars of the decade. Some said Kobe, some said T-Mac, some said Ray Allen, a lot has been said.

To you who has been the most overrated star this decade?

Kobe... :eek:

[jstern]

After thinking about it, even thought he's probably in the top 2 guards, I would have to take Kobe. I mean I can't say it's Vince, since it's not like anyone talks highly of him anymore. If he was overrated I would have to say it was early in his career when people were arguing between him and Kobe. He was good, but people tend to get mesmerized with his dunks. The same with Kobe and his pretty game. I have to say Kobe, simply because of his illogical fanboys. Watch a game with one of them. He can miss 7 horrible shot selections in a row, and as soon as he hit 1 stylish jumper it's like, "Omg, he so amazing, the best of all time." Completely in denial of the horrible game he's having. Or the other day when the Lakers lost, but Kobe had 38 points and 10 assist, typical Lebron numbers, not only did someone start a thread celebrating, but typical Lebron haters started calling Kobe the GOAT just because of that one game. Yet when Lebron who typically puts up those numbers has a game like that, forget about it. So for those reasons I have to say Kobe, even though he's good.

[GiveItToBurrito]

Stackhouse by a lot, he was never that efficient, although I've got a soft spot for him from his 76ers days.

Carter was overrated as a potential franchise guy and underrated as someone who was actually a very good player. He didn't deserve all the hype, but he was at least as good as prime Caron Butler and he had one season where he was arguably a top five player.

McGrady was overrated as a scorer since he wasn't efficient for a long time, but he was such a good passer and rebounder that it evened itself out, at least until around 2008.

Iverson was way too inefficient, he had a few years where he just killed his team.

Joe Johnson's got a shot at two max contracts, but he's actually just pretty good as opposed to really good.

Rip Hamilton was never that great, probably only deserved to make one all star team.

Jason Richardson was never really that special.

Derrick Rose is great but becoming overrated, once he gets to the line a bit more he'll be about right, though. He still deserved to be an all star.

Kobe's overrated as far as an all-time great (I'd put him in the top thirty or twenty, not top ten. I actually think David Robinson was a better player, in addition to the usual suspects like Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan), but he was usually the best guard in the league, at least until Wade.

Kidd's overrated as an offensive player (inefficient, doesn't score a lot, and the assists don't make up for the twelve ppg) but was the best perimeter defender in the league for half a decade (look at how NJ and Phoenix's defensive ratings changed before and after Kidd).

[GiveItToBurrito]

After thinking about it, even thought he's probably in the top 2 guards, I would have to take Kobe. I mean I can't say it's Vince, since it's not like anyone talks highly of him anymore. If he was overrated I would have to say it was early in his career when people were arguing between him and Kobe. He was good, but people tend to get mesmerized with his dunks. The same with Kobe and his pretty game. I have to say Kobe, simply because of his illogical fanboys. Watch a game with one of them. He can miss 7 horrible shot selections in a row, and as soon as he hit 1 stylish jumper it's like, "Omg, he so amazing, the best of all time." Completely in denial of the horrible game he's having. Or the other day when the Lakers lost, but Kobe had 38 points and 10 assist, typical Lebron numbers, not only did someone start a thread celebrating, but typical Lebron haters started calling Kobe the GOAT just because of that one game. Yet when Lebron who typically puts up those numbers has a game like that, forget about it. So for those reasons I have to say Kobe, even though he's good.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

It's not Kobe that's bad, it's the media (who called him the best player in the league pretty much until this season) and his ridiculous fanboys who are walking jokes among people who actually really follow basketball.

[GiveItToBurrito]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/jon_wertheim/11/20/essay/Marbury.jpg


This guy.

Yeah, he only really had one great year, that time the Knicks made the playoffs.

There's a chapter in Stumbling on Wins that breaks down he him and Isiah weren't that special, that Marbury only really got paid because he took a lot of shots and that he was actually just a mediocre player who dominated the ball.

[L.Kizzle]

Carter was overrated as a potential franchise guy and underrated as someone who was actually a very good player. He didn't deserve all the hype, but he was at least as good as prime Caron Butler and he had one season where he was arguably a top five player.

For real, he's Caron Butler now. When CB drops over 27/5/5, puts up 50 point games in the playoffs, come give me a burrito.

[Kiddlovesnets]

You can't overrate the GOAT :oldlol: :oldlol:

lol why? He is clearly not a top 10 player in NBA history like homers have claimed...

But yeah, I'd agree that the most overrated star guard is indeed Stephen Marbury. He's on my top 5 cancers list too.

[Orlando Magic]

Kobe... simultaneously the best perimeter player from 2000-2010 and yet... the most overrated. That's a damn hard feat to pull off, but he did it. It's because he plays for LA. That's the biggest reason he's the most overrated. Fanbase is mostly full of retards and kids that watched him growing up, and it's incredibly large.

[GiveItToBurrito]

For real, he's Caron Butler now. When CB drops over 27/5/5, puts up 50 point games in the playoffs, come give me a burrito.

I think you misunderstood, the season he averaged 27 5 and 5 and had the duels with AI is the one I'm referencing when I said he had a year where he was a top five guy. Pretty much every year after that, he was good for around 22 6 and 4 which is roughly what Butler put up the year he made the all-star team.

[Disaprine]

How was Gilbert overrated? Overpaid? Yes. Overrated? Not really. Everyone knew he was an electric scorer and that was pretty much it.

I hope he can turn it around though, I loved his game.
+1

[Noob Saibot]

uhhhhh......Steve Francis. what happened to him. he had sick potential.

[alwaysunny]

uhhhhh......Steve Francis. what happened to him. he had sick potential.
injury

[L.Kizzle]

I think you misunderstood, the season he averaged 27 5 and 5 and had the duels with AI is the one I'm referencing when I said he had a year where he was a top five guy. Pretty much every year after that, he was good for around 22 6 and 4 which is roughly what Butler put up the year he made the all-star team.
Butler did it one season, while Carter on a consistent base. So Caron
s best was Carter's aveage.

[NASH = BEST]

1. Marbury
2. Stackhouse
3. McGrady
4. Bryant

[Amil23]

Kobe

[iggy>]

allen iverson, and im a diehard sixers fan

[King Kong]

It is hard to pick a single most overrated guard. I think Jerry Stackhouse has to be up there. He average 29-30 points once seasons with inefficient scoring and he was almost consensly better than Kobe.

[ChrisConley]

How are people arguing that Marbury was overrated!?

Everybody hates on him constantly. If anything the dude was underrated. He had five 40pt 10ast games with one 50pt 12ast game. Two of those 40/10 games he had 0 turnovers. How many other pgs have done that?

He put up 20+ppg and 8+apg for 8 seasons. Iverson did that 0 times.

He played for sh!t teams, got hated on his entire career mostly for off the court sh!t, and he's the most overrated point guard of the decade? Unbelievable. He's become a nice easy scapegoat. I think I'll write a book about it.

[ukplayer4]

marbury and arenas are good calls. nobody considered baron as one of the best players in the league, people did about gilbert no question.
im not a big fan of calling out highlight reel players as being overrated, so steve francis gets a pass from me, as does vince, they bring their own greatness, it doesnt involve winning titles but certainly they are great in their own way.

[Duncan21formvp]

With Kobe, you can argue that he's underrated by the haters and overrated by his fans.
:cheers:

[Go Getter]

Marbury, Stackhouse, Francis, and Gilbert Arenas were not overrated they've were much maligned.

I'd say either AI or Nash.

[L.Kizzle]

marbury and arenas are good calls. nobody considered baron as one of the best players in the league, people did about gilbert no question.
im not a big fan of calling out highlight reel players as being overrated, so steve francis gets a pass from me, as does vince, they bring their own greatness, it doesnt involve winning titles but certainly they are great in their own way.
And Arenas wasn't, he was the only reason the Wiz teams stayed above water. You see how great there were without him ...

[JtotheIzzo]

Marbury, Stackhouse, Francis, and Gilbert Arenas were not overrated they've were much maligned.

I'd say either AI or Nash.

Stackhouse was being called the next Jordan when he entered the league.

Francis and Marbury were hot trash who had coaches who let them hog the ball so they could put up good stats before they played themselves out of the league.

Arenas had a brief flirtation with superstardom only to get hurt and then f*ck it up.

They were all highly rated and in the end (as reality has shown us) OVER-RATED!!!

AI and Nash had transcendent careers. They were MVPs and they changed the way the game was played. They were unique and extremely talented.

Only a moron would call them over-rated.

AI and Nash will be remembered generations from now, those other 'much maligned' (LOLOLOLOL) clowns will be long forgotten.

They were only 'maligned' because they were extremely mentally weak (except for Stackhouse, he stepped up for a few teams in the playoffs later in his career as a role player).

get a clue clownshoes.

[Go Getter]

Stackhouse was being called the next Jordan when he entered the league.

Francis and Marbury were hot trash who had coaches who let them hog the ball so they could put up good stats before they played themselves out of the league.

Arenas had a brief flirtation with superstardom only to get hurt and then f*ck it up.

They were all highly rated and in the end (as reality has shown us) OVER-RATED!!!

AI and Nash had transcendent careers. They were MVPs and they changed the way the game was played. They were unique and extremely talented.

Only a moron would call them over-rated.

AI and Nash will be remembered generations from now, those other 'much maligned' (LOLOLOLOL) clowns will be long forgotten.

They were only 'maligned' because they were extremely mentally weak (except for Stackhouse, he stepped up for a few teams in the playoffs later in his career as a role player).

get a clue clownshoes.


Francis, Stackhouse, Marbury, and Arenas were all good players....but good basketball heads knew they were nothing special as far as winning games and being a good team player.

AI and Nash were great players that people overrate more than the above because of public perception and the fact that they were winners yet they have one or two fatal flaws.

Are put in the pantheon of greats without finding a way to win the big games whether is be taking a lesser salary/role or playing defense or putting ego aside.

I don't think AI and Nash get enough credit for the downfall of their respective franchises.

But miss me with the insults bruh your OPINION isn't the only one worth respecting.

[plowking]

Jason Kidd.

People go "goo goo ga ga" over his empty triple doubles.

[JtotheIzzo]

Francis, Stackhouse, Marbury, and Arenas were all good players....but good basketball heads knew they were nothing special as far as winning games and being a good team player.

AI and Nash were great players that people overrate more than the above because of public perception and the fact that they were winners yet they have one or two fatal flaws.

Are put in the pantheon of greats without finding a way to win the big games whether is be taking a lesser salary/role or playing defense or putting ego aside.

I don't think AI and Nash get enough credit for the downfall of their respective franchises.

But miss me with the insults bruh your OPINION isn't the only one worth respecting.

I'd be interested to hear how Nash has brought down the Suns. They did just make the ECF you know...

[Go Getter]

I'd be interested to hear how Nash has brought down the Suns. They did just make the ECF you know...


Western Conference Finals.

And no you are not interested in hearing what I have to say you've already formulated an opinion in your head that I'm wrong and you are right.

AI and Steve are great players I admire them greatly but they are not top tier stars and their style of play has been a detriment to their team's winning the ultimate prize IMO.

[plowking]

Western Conference Finals.

And no you are not interested in hearing what I have to say you've already formulated an opinion in your head that I'm wrong and you are right.

AI and Steve are great players I admire them greatly but they are not top tier stars and their style of play has been a detriment to their team's winning the ultimate prize IMO.

Yeah blame Nash for playing against a much better squad. It's all his fault the Lakers are this good. :rant

[JtotheIzzo]

Western Conference Finals.

And no you are not interested in hearing what I have to say you've already formulated an opinion in your head that I'm wrong and you are right.

AI and Steve are great players I admire them greatly but they are not top tier stars and their style of play has been a detriment to their team's winning the ultimate prize IMO.

so had the Suns replaced Nash they'd be better and had the Sixers replaced AI they'd be better?


I don't think you get enough credit for how bad your basketball observations are.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Jerry Stackhouse was kinda overrated. cant think of anyone else at the moment.

Wow.

[mamba24]

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo66/SNOWMAN6188/KOBE.jpg

And it isn't even close. NOBODY can say otherwise. Just read some of the threads and posts on this forum alone.

i do think 81 points is overrated raptor fan...:roll: :roll:

[JerrySteakhouse]

Steve Francis was overrated too. Could had been very sick but he f'ed up REAL TALKS BRO

He was sick, just because he declined quick doesnt mean he was overrated.

[Go Getter]

so had the Suns replaced Nash they'd be better and had the Sixers replaced AI they'd be better?


I don't think you get enough credit for how bad your basketball observations are.


No. Your comprehension skills are the problem in this equation.

Nash and AI have reached a lot of success and it's not a knock on them maybe it just wasn't in the cards for them.

But I think AI should have embraced more of a PG role because the undersized backcourt experiment was doomed from the start. He had a team of defensive players and he chucked.

Nash was the centerpiece behind those run-and-gun teams that scorched the league for a few years but the success was all fools gold.

The style of play was centered around Nash and his ability to get up and down the court and make good decisions with the ball and did not focus on defense--his {and Amare's} weakness.

That is why I said that {or meant to say} that they were a detriment to their franchises winning it all.

Of course this is just my opinon you are entitled to yours.

[JtotheIzzo]

He was sick, just because he declined quick doesnt mean he was overrated.

yeah, like the time he won that...oh, nevermind...or when Houston traded him in his prime because he wasn't good enough to be Yao's sidekick.

Over-rated

[JerrySteakhouse]

yeah, like the time he won that...oh, nevermind...or when Houston traded him in his prime because he wasn't good enough to be Yao's sidekick.

Over-rated

That still doesn't mean hes overrated.

[Go Getter]

yeah, like the time he won that...oh, nevermind...or when Houston traded him in his prime because he wasn't good enough to be Yao's sidekick.

Over-rated


Replace Houston with Dallas and Yao with Dirk and you're describing Steve Nash:roll:

[plowking]

Replace Houston with Dallas and Yao with Dirk and you're describing Steve Nash:roll:

You're comparing a flash in the pan to a 2 time MVP.

You come in with pre-conceived opinions in every Nash thread.
"His fault his team lost", "He's overrated"...

Getting old bro.

[JtotheIzzo]

Replace Houston with Dallas and Yao with Dirk and you're describing Steve Nash:roll:

Not even close to the same scenario. The circumstances were completely different. AND... Nash went on to win back to back MVPs and even outlast his old team in the playoffs...what was it again that Francis did when he left Houston?

Few can fail as hard as you do.

[Go Getter]

You're comparing a flash in the pan to a 2 time MVP.

You come in with pre-conceived opinions in every Nash thread.
"His fault his team lost", "He's overrated"...

Getting old bro.


No I just said that if you took the two words in the sentence I qouted and replaced it with Dallas and Dirk you could attribute it to Steve Nash....[the Mav's DID trade Nash in his prime and some could say it was because he wasn't the right fit next to Dirk...and didn't the Mavs have a better record the season after Nash was traded?}

It IS [partly] his fault his teams lose.

He IS overrated.

Don't know why my opinion shocks you or makes you think I'm a hater.

[Go Getter]

Not even close to the same scenario. The circumstances were completely different. AND... Nash went on to win back to back MVPs and even outlast his old team in the playoffs...what was it again that Francis did when he left Houston?

Few can fail as hard as you do.


It was a joke and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

I know the situations were different and you can take them two MVP's and blow em out your ass.:roll:

[NoLayupsRule2]

Since when was Jerry Stackhouse a star? He made the All-Star team twice this decade, just TWICE. He wasn't a star, he may have been overrated, but not a star.

Anyways, Anybody who said Nash was overrated, just kill yourself immediately. You clearly know nothing about basketball and you clearly just hate on Nash for the sake of hating on Nash. Anybody who thinks it's his fault for being a failure is just grasping for straws.

I use to think Iverson was overrated but ever since his twilight years arrived, I realized he gets a shit load of hate than he actually deserves.

[Go Getter]

Since when was Jerry Stackhouse a star? He made the All-Star team twice this decade, just TWICE. He wasn't a star, he may have been overrated, but not a star.

Anyways, Anybody who said Nash was overrated, just kill yourself immediately. You clearly know nothing about basketball and you clearly just hate on Nash for the sake of hating on Nash. Anybody who thinks it's his fault for being a failure is just grasping for straws.

I use to think Iverson was overrated but ever since his twilight years arrived, I realized he gets a shit load of hate than he actually deserves.


Why would I hate someone that has given me no reason to hate him.

Nash is a one way player.

He's a great shooter and facilitator but he is also the PG that leads the league in getting his passes stolen year.

His defense is putrid.

Overrated means that interested parties over value him...not that he isn't valuable.

It's pretty evident that Nash is grossly overrated on ISH.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo66/SNOWMAN6188/KOBE.jpg

And it isn't even close. NOBODY can say otherwise. Just read some of the threads and posts on this forum alone.
January 22nd, 2006 says hi to you bitter raptor fans. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiRoWEMunqM&feature=related)

[OptimusPrime1]

Why would I hate someone that has given me no reason to hate him.

Nash is a one way player.

He's a great shooter and facilitator but he is also the PG that leads the league in getting his passes stolen year.

His defense is putrid.

Overrated means that interested parties over value him...not that he isn't valuable.

It's pretty evident that Nash is grossly overrated on ISH.
http://randazza.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/facepalm.jpg

[Logical]

Probaly Kobe, but he is the best guard of 2000's decade:cheers:

This.

[Blazed22]

Jason Kidd.

People go "goo goo ga ga" over his empty triple doubles.
.....fail? :confusedshrug:

[beermonsteroo]

Stackhouse was really way overrated at one stage in his career.

[TheCorporation]

With Kobe, you can argue that he's underrated by the haters and overrated by his fans.

Agreed! But I won't lie, everytime some idiot sports writer tries to compare Kobe to Jordan I can't help but laugh. So I guess techicnally he IS overrated?

[The GM]

Vince Carter & T-Mac. Neither of them could take their teams anywhere in the playoff's, both were mostly known for spectacular dunks in All-Star Games/ Dunk Contests and both were frail as hell, could never suck it up and play hurt for the better of their respective teams.. they are probably two of the most overrated players in NBA history.

[MiseryCityTexas]

steve francis

[T-bomb 25]

I don't understand how Allen Iverson could be overrated when experts, analysts and even fans have been giving him nothing but shit since like 06.

Seriously, everyone talks shit about him, then they say he is overrated. What is it?

You definitely can't say he was overrated back in the early part of the decade, because that ***** was seriously balling back then.

Gilbert Arenas. Now that guy is overrated. I don't care that he was a 2nd Round Pick, he is overrated.Are you serious he lit Kobe up for 60 in LA and hit the game winner,ask Kobe has he ever been done like that before,and he scorched people the entire season hitting game winners,his 1st real good season he averaged 28ppg and didnt make the all-star game,he was foolish and he had some bad injuries,watch what he does this year,watch and see how big John Walls eyes is gonna be.:no:

[BlueandGold]

Starbury

McGrady

Vince Carter

Jerry Stackhouse

Kenyon martin

[GiveItToBurrito]

Jerry Stackhouse was kinda overrated. cant think of anyone else at the moment.

Definitly, I never thought of him as anything special. Still can't believe he averaged almost thirty that one year.

I think Vince is overrated as far as his actual talent. He had a perfect body for basketball, but he was never really as quick, either laterally or in a straight line, as his hops might have you believe. At the same time, I think he was a better player and teammate than a lot of people give him credit for.

Rip Hamilton's also overrated, he wasn't a particularly great scorer and he was a weak rebounder.

I think Derrick Rose is a bit overrated, too. He's good, but he's nowhere near a top five point guard yet. I think he'd be considered a great young player and nothing more if he had been taken in the second round.

Jason Kidd's not overrated as a player, but he was never as good an offensive player as people made him out to be, didn't score that much or that efficiently and I think assists can be overrated sometimes. He was the best perimeter defender in the league for a loooong time, though, and I think that's what made him so special (along with being able to tear down 7 or 8 boards a night as a point guard).

[T-bomb 25]

No way is Derrick Rose overrated,he's not like the old traditional PG's he is the new wave PG his combination of speed,strength,and athletic ability is off the charts and very unique at the point,and he is very very quickly improving everywhere else that he needs to,by the end of next year,he'll be only 2nd to Deron Williams,with the chance to surpass him as the best PG in the league if his jumper keeps improving.The most overrated gaurd is to me by far is Chris Paul he cant defend,he got baked by Chauncey Billups and embarrassed and him being the leader of the team looked really bad letting his team get hammered by over 50 points in the playoffs,that is the worst knock on any superstar in NBA history to me not to mention he's really only about 5'10,he is super duper overrated!!

[theoneneo]

Stackhouse by a lot, he was never that efficient, although I've got a soft spot for him from his 76ers days.

Carter was overrated as a potential franchise guy and underrated as someone who was actually a very good player. He didn't deserve all the hype, but he was at least as good as prime Caron Butler and he had one season where he was arguably a top five player.

McGrady was overrated as a scorer since he wasn't efficient for a long time, but he was such a good passer and rebounder that it evened itself out, at least until around 2008.

Iverson was way too inefficient, he had a few years where he just killed his team.

Joe Johnson's got a shot at two max contracts, but he's actually just pretty good as opposed to really good.

Rip Hamilton was never that great, probably only deserved to make one all star team.

Jason Richardson was never really that special.

Derrick Rose is great but becoming overrated, once he gets to the line a bit more he'll be about right, though. He still deserved to be an all star.

Kobe's overrated as far as an all-time great (I'd put him in the top thirty or twenty, not top ten. I actually think David Robinson was a better player, in addition to the usual suspects like Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan), but he was usually the best guard in the league, at least until Wade.

Kidd's overrated as an offensive player (inefficient, doesn't score a lot, and the assists don't make up for the twelve ppg) but was the best perimeter defender in the league for half a decade (look at how NJ and Phoenix's defensive ratings changed before and after Kidd).

Kobe is only top 30...do u even watch basketball...5 rings, 2mvps top 10

[theoneneo]

Over 25,000 points-Top 12 all time
Over 4,000 playoff points- Top 6
7 finals appearances
5 championships
2 finals mvps
1 regular season MVP
3 all star mvp's
3rd all time 50 point games
2nd all time 60 point games
3rd all time 40 point games
1 gold medal
second highest scoring game in league history
Once out scored a team thru 3 quarters
Once recorded 8 assist in under three minutes
Slam dunk champion
Part of the greatest duo in history
Top 3 in game winning shots
And the guy is still 31 years old
If this is overrated then no other player is worthy of being mentioned

[Sarcastic]

Over 25,000 points-Top 12 all time
Over 4,000 playoff points- Top 6
7 finals appearances
5 championships
2 finals mvps
1 regular season MVP
3 all star mvp's
3rd all time 50 point games
2nd all time 60 point games
3rd all time 40 point games
1 gold medal
second highest scoring game in league history
Once out scored a team thru 3 quarters
Once recorded 8 assist in under three minutes
Slam dunk champion
Part of the greatest duo in history
Top 3 in game winning shots
And the guy is still 31 years old
If this is overrated then no other player is worthy of being mentioned

I like how you put Slam Dunk Champion as if it were important or something.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Ginobli.
Occasionally goes on outrageous scoring binges, gets hyped, then invariably settles back in to above average play...or even disappears altogether.
Oft injured.
Flopper.
Hack.

[G.O.A.T.]

Kobe's overrated as far as an all-time great (I'd put him in the top thirty...


some heavy LOLZ right there brotha

[ginobli2311]

Lmao at Allen Iverson being overrated :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

totally agree. if anything A.I. is under-rated in the basketball world.

[theoneneo]

I like how you put Slam Dunk Champion as if it were important or something.


Funny how out of all the things there u point that one out, probably since u cant say much else negative about the rest of his resume

[Sarcastic]

Funny how out of all the things there u point that one out, probably since u cant say much else negative about the rest of his resume

Why would I say something negative about his resume?
The only negative thing about Kobe's career is his poor shooting percentage, and low assist numbers.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Why would I say something negative about his resume?
The only negative thing about Kobe's career is his poor shooting percentage, and low assist numbers.

Go back and do some research. Look all SGs over the last 10 years who score at least 20ppg (i.e. 1st or 2nd option). Look at their FG% and then report what you see.
As for his "low assists"... he has led the Lakers in assists every year except one over the last 10 or 12 years. While you are at it....check out the assists for SGs who are also the team's leading scorer. Report what you find. TIA.

[Sarcastic]

Go back and do some research. Look all SGs over the last 10 years who score at least 20ppg (i.e. 1st or 2nd option). Look at their FG% and then report what you see.
As for his "low assists"... he has led the Lakers in assists every year except one over the last 10 or 12 years. While you are at it....check out the assists for SGs who are also the team's leading scorer. Report what you find. TIA.

Kobe is the second best SG of all time, hands down. When comparing him to virtually any guard, he will have better numbers.

Now if compare him to the GOAT(MJ), his shooting percentage and assists are glaringly futile.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kobe is the second best SG of all time, hands down. When comparing him to virtually any guard, he will have better numbers.

Now if compare him to the GOAT(MJ), his shooting percentage and assists are glaringly futile.

who was comparing him to the GOATSG? what does that have to do with this thread?

[Crystallas]

Jason Richardson became seriously over-rated after the SDC's. That wen't away at some point, but I think at the peak of the hype, he may have been the most over-rated of the entire decade.

Michael Redd was so over-rated, the Bucks never looked to replace him, only find players that could fill in. They lucked out with Salmons, but originally he was intended to only fill-in until Redd was cleared to play again. At some point, you just have to say, this guy will not be healthy, and make a serious move.

I think it's a tossup between Redd and VC.

[DC Zephyrs]

The only time I consider Nash overrated is when people honestly believe he was the best Pg of this decade whiles in my opinion it was clearly Kidd.

If you factor in the importance of peak play, I think it actually is Nash. Since he joined the Suns, they've been consistently the best offensive team in the league, and he's put up unbelievably efficient numbers (15-18 points, 50-40-90, 11 assists).

Yes, Kidd led the Nets to two Finals appearances, but that was in the pathetic early 2000's Eastern Conference. Nash's 60 win Suns would have cruised to the Finals in the East year in and year out.

[jrong]

The most overrated gaurd is to me by far is Chris Paul he cant defend,he got baked by Chauncey Billups and embarrassed and him being the leader of the team looked really bad letting his team get hammered by over 50 points in the playoffs,that is the worst knock on any superstar in NBA history to me not to mention he's really only about 5'10,he is super duper overrated!!

You really need to throw out your television because you're obviously not using it. At his top level, Chris Paul is the second best point guard... ever.

[beermonsteroo]

Kobe is the second best SG of all time, hands down. When comparing him to virtually any guard, he will have better numbers.

Now if compare him to the GOAT(MJ), his shooting percentage and assists are glaringly futile.

Ever heared of some guy called Jerry West?

[Bond007]

Ever heared of some guy called Jerry West?

I Love The Logo but he is not better than Kobe or The Goat MJ

[Yung D-Will]

Ever heared of some guy called Jerry West?

He's not better then Kobe at this point.

[Birmingham1955]

so many you can pick from.

[beermonsteroo]

He's not better then Kobe at this point.

He said you wouldn't find a guard with better stats.
Well West has, especially in the playoffs.

Career NBA 153 6321 1622 3460 1213 1506 0 855 970 0 0 451 4457 .469 .805 41.3 29.1 5.6 6.3

[knickscity]

He said you wouldn't find a guard with better stats.
Well West has, especially in the playoffs.

Career NBA 153 6321 1622 3460 1213 1506 0 855 970 0 0 451 4457 .469 .805 41.3 29.1 5.6 6.3

West isn't better than Kobe.

Even West himself has said Kobe is become the greatest Laker of all time.

I did like that copy/paste job you did though.

Typical ISH, stats but no knowledge.

[BlueandGold]

You really need to throw out your television because you're obviously not using it. At his top level, Chris Paul is the second best point guard... ever.

http://gbcw.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/epicfail.jpg

[knickscity]

You really need to throw out your television because you're obviously not using it. At his top level, Chris Paul is the second best point guard... ever.

He may be second best.....in the League....today,

Ever? That's blasphemy.

[T-bomb 25]

http://gbcw.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/epicfail.jpgBwwwhhhhhaaaa.....this is ****ing beautiful this is the funniest shit I've ever seen on this forum,besides what that idiot just said.....bravo i cant add anything to this,you are the man and i rarely compliment anyone like that or give that kind of credit.lol:roll: :roll: :roll:

[T-bomb 25]

He may be second best.....in the League....today,

Ever? That's blasphemy. Um...yeah you hit the nail on the head at best he's 2nd,but i dont even thinks he's that D-Will has made a living at tearing that clowns back out,so its even blasphemy for someone to call him the best PG now like some morons do now i got him 8th,his team got dusted and disgusted by over 50 points in the playoffs thats the worst team failer with a top superstar ever and he looked like a jr. high kid against Billiups,he is deffinetly the most overrated.

[Sarcastic]

who was comparing him to the GOATSG? what does that have to do with this thread?

I wasn't really trying to. I first laughed that someone put down Slam Dunk Champion as one of Kobe's achievements, then a Kobe Stan got on my case for bringing it up.

I was never trying to knock Kobe nor compare him to anyone.

[KINGS2002CHAMPS]

On another site a lot of people said that Vince Carter and Allen Iverson were the most overrated stars of the decade. Some said Kobe, some said T-Mac, some said Ray Allen, a lot has been said.

To you who has been the most overrated star this decade?


The guy who's the least effective scorer of any FINALS MVP in NBA HISTORY(10 finals games minimum)

[Blazed22]

You really need to throw out your television because you're obviously not using it. At his top level, Chris Paul is the second best point guard... ever.
http://gullyborg.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83421dda453ef0120a570e9e8970c-800wi

[Timmy D for MVP]

I don't think T-Mac will be remembered as overrated but more as what could have been.

As far as overrating goes I would have to say Kobe just because of Kobe stans. But in the knowledgeable basketball community it is Jerry Stackhouse.

[Yung D-Will]

You really need to throw out your television because you're obviously not using it. At his top level, Chris Paul is the second best point guard... ever.
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/29/sad_post_replies.gif

[GoSpursGo1984]

totally agree. if anything A.I. is under-rated in the basketball world.

He is overrated because he hurt his team by taking high volume(career 21 per game) of shots instead of working within the offense. That is why the Sixers built a team of defense and rebounders for him so he could chuck away and even then then they could only win one game in the Finals.

[ginobli2311]

He is overrated because he hurt his team by taking high volume(career 21 per game) of shots instead of working within the offense. That is why the Sixers built a team of defense and rebounders for him so he could chuck away and even then then they could only win one game in the Finals.

do you think the sixers under-achieved in the finals against the lakers?

what great players has a.i. played with? stackhouse, over the hill webber, coleman, hughes, 34 year old mutombo??????? funny how when got the right team around him and a great coach he made the finals and won mvp.

nobody is saying a.i. is the greatest ever by an means.....but to say he hurt his teams is laughable.

[Yung D-Will]

He is overrated because he hurt his team by taking high volume(career 21 per game) of shots instead of working within the offense. That is why the Sixers built a team of defense and rebounders for him so he could chuck away and even then then they could only win one game in the Finals.

A.i hurt his team by bailing them out time and time again and putting up big numbers lOVE THAT LOGIC. So they couldn't win 1 game in the finals yet .

So I guess that means Nash is overrated too?

Since I have fond memories of the Spurs dynasty constantly crapping on their franchise and stopping them from getting to the finals.

[ginobli2311]

A.i hurt his team by bailing them out time and time again and putting up big numbers lOVE THAT LOGIC. So they couldn't win 1 game in the finals yet .

So I guess that means Nash is overrated too?

Since I have fond memories of the Spurs dynasty constantly crapping on their franchise and stopping them from getting to the finals.

good post.

just look at what a.i. did in denver with in terms of efficiency. he's a true blooded scorer and is an under-rated passer. at age 32:

26 points 7 assists on 46% from the field. a.i. actually takes pretty good care of the ball....something most people forget. his assist to turnover ratio is better than the likes of kobe. he was also a very under-rated defender....something most people forget.

[GoSpursGo1984]

do you think the sixers under-achieved in the finals against the lakers?

what great players has a.i. played with? stackhouse, over the hill webber, coleman, hughes, 34 year old mutombo??????? funny how when got the right team around him and a great coach he made the finals and won mvp.

nobody is saying a.i. is the greatest ever by an means.....but to say he hurt his teams is laughable.

They had
Sixth Man of the Year Aaron McKie
Defensive Player of the Year Dikembe Mutombo
Coach of the Year Larry Brown
Theo Ratliff All Star

Obviously if they only won one game in the Finals they underachieved

[tpols]

good post.

just look at what a.i. did in denver with in terms of efficiency. he's a true blooded scorer and is an under-rated passer. at age 32:

26 points 7 assists on 46% from the field. a.i. actually takes pretty good care of the ball....something most people forget. his assist to turnover ratio is better than the likes of kobe. he was also a very under-rated defender....something most people forget.
point guards are supposed to have more assists than shooting guards...
:lol this kid'll take every chance he can to take a shot at kobe

[Yung D-Will]

They had
Sixth Man of the Year Aaron McKie
Defensive Player of the Year Dikembe Mutombo
Coach of the Year Larry Brown
Theo Ratliff All Star

Obviously if they only won one game in the Finals they underachieved

I loled.

The Cavs this year had

Mvp Shaq
All Star Mo Williams
Mvp Lebron
Coach of the year Mike Brown
NBA Sixth Man of the Year Antawn Jamieson


Lol are you really trying to prove a point here?

[c3zz4rr]

good post.

just look at what a.i. did in denver with in terms of efficiency. he's a true blooded scorer and is an under-rated passer. at age 32:

26 points 7 assists on 46% from the field. a.i. actually takes pretty good care of the ball....something most people forget. his assist to turnover ratio is better than the likes of kobe. he was also a very under-rated defender....something most people forget.

Just had to take a shot at kobe

[GoSpursGo1984]

good post.

just look at what a.i. did in denver with in terms of efficiency. he's a true blooded scorer and is an under-rated passer. at age 32:

26 points 7 assists on 46% from the field. a.i. actually takes pretty good care of the ball....something most people forget. his assist to turnover ratio is better than the likes of kobe. he was also a very under-rated defender....something most people forget.

Yeah he did so good that year they got swept in the first round. Chauncey Billups came in after Iverson and in his first two season led them to the Western Conference Finals.

[sosolid4u09]

Just had to take a shot at kobe


exactly. then he wonders and feels offended when people call him a kobe hater

[Jacks3]

lol @ ginobili. Consistently obsessing about Bryant's FG% and yet here he is calling Iverson underrated.:roll:

[GoSpursGo1984]

I loled.

The Cavs this year had

Mvp Shaq
All Star Mo Williams
Mvp Lebron
Coach of the year Mike Brown
NBA Sixth Man of the Year Antawn Jamieson


Lol are you really trying to prove a point here?

The Eastern Conference is much harder to make it out of now then it was in 2001. Antawn Jamison was not Sixth Man of the Year in 2008-2009 Jason Terry was. Shaq won an all star mvp that has everthing to do with popularity and nothing with how good they are that season,

[Yung D-Will]

The Eastern Conference is much harder to make it out of now then it was in 2001. Antawn Jamison was not Sixth Man of the Year in 2008-2009 Jason Terry was. Shaq won an all star mvp that has everthing to do with popularity and nothing with how good they are that season,

Yes I ment to say former in front of most of those awards.

[ginobli2311]

Yeah he did so good that year they got swept in the first round. Chauncey Billups came in after Iverson and in his first two season led them to the Western Conference Finals.

yea.....because it was a.i.'s fault....its all about fitting into the right team. the nuggets needed a floor general like billups.....not a scorer like iverson. all about context.

[ginobli2311]

lol @ ginobili. Consistently obsessing about Bryant's FG% and yet here he is calling Iverson underrated.:roll:

ever heard of context. you think a.i. is shooting his same fg% if he plays with shaq for his first 8 years or one of the 2 most talented teams in the league 3 years?

pretty sure a.i. might have been more efficient playing with the championship caliber talent kobe has played with in 11 of his 14 years. lol....11 years out of 14 kobe has had the best or one of the top 3 teams around him in the league.

[iggy>]

yea.....because it was a.i.'s fault....its all about fitting into the right team. the nuggets needed a floor general like billups.....not a scorer like iverson. all about context.
then what the hell is the right situation for iverson? the only way he couldve possibly won a title was off the bench as an instant offense type player.

[Solid Snake]

Steve Francis. ****ing frog looking mother****er.

[ginobli2311]

then what the hell is the right situation for iverson? the only way he couldve possibly won a title was off the bench as an instant offense type player.


what? how about the 01 sixers with ray allen instead of lynch. keep that core together for 5 years and they win multiple titles.

[tpols]

ever heard of context. you think a.i. is shooting his same fg% if he plays with shaq for his first 8 years or one of the 2 most talented teams in the league 3 years?

pretty sure a.i. might have been more efficient playing with the championship caliber talent kobe has played with in 11 of his 14 years. lol....11 years out of 14 kobe has had the best or one of the top 3 teams around him in the league.
what lol? Allen Iverson typically takes long range fade aways and I don't see him changing that with shaq in the line up... that's his game. You're just hating on kobe...again. And kobe shot the same with shaq as he did w/o him so yeah, you're a retard.:lol

[ginobli2311]

what lol? Allen Iverson typically takes long range fade aways and I don't see him changing that with shaq in the line up... that's his game. You're just hating on kobe...again. And kobe shot the same with shaq as he did w/o him so yeah, you're a retard.:lol

no...listen carefully. if a.i. had played with another great player for most of his career he would average around 19 shots a game. not 22. as volume increases....especially over a career.....shooting percentage lowers.

so logic would say that if a.i. took an average of 3 less shots per game and played the exact same way he did (even though he would most likely get better looks)....he would probably shoot around 1 or 2% better from the field. iverson shot 43% for his career....my guess is he shoots around 44.5 for his career taking 19 shots a game.

forget kobe. do you really think that wade would shoot the same fg% if he shot 22 shots a game instead of 18? context and logic....seem to be lost on you dude.

oh....and we don't even need to play hypothetical. just look at a.i. in denver in 08. 19 shots per game.....46% from the field. see how that works?

[iggy>]

what? how about the 01 sixers with ray allen instead of lynch. keep that core together for 5 years and they win multiple titles.
ai and ray allen beat the lakers? :roll: what the hell are you smoking. people overrate ai cuz of 01, when in reality the eastern conference was the weakest its ever been.

[indiefan24]

no...listen carefully. if a.i. had played with another great player for most of his career he would average around 19 shots a game. not 22. as volume increases....especially over a career.....shooting percentage lowers.

so logic would say that if a.i. took an average of 3 less shots per game and played the exact same way he did (even though he would most likely get better looks)....he would probably shoot around 1 or 2% better from the field. iverson shot 43% for his career....my guess is he shoots around 44.5 for his career taking 19 shots a game.

forget kobe. do you really think that wade would shoot the same fg% if he shot 22 shots a game instead of 18? context and logic....seem to be lost on you dude.

with you it always comes back to Kobe.

[indiefan24]

ever heard of context. you think a.i. is shooting his same fg% if he plays with shaq for his first 8 years or one of the 2 most talented teams in the league 3 years?

pretty sure a.i. might have been more efficient playing with the championship caliber talent kobe has played with in 11 of his 14 years. lol....11 years out of 14 kobe has had the best or one of the top 3 teams around him in the league.

Iverson has always been a volume shooter. Shaq wouldn't help things at all seeing as how he'd be camped down there in the paint. How would Iverson get all his easy layups? The guy needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

[tpols]

no...listen carefully. if a.i. had played with another great player for most of his career he would average around 19 shots a game. not 22. as volume increases....especially over a career.....shooting percentage lowers.

so logic would say that if a.i. took an average of 3 less shots per game and played the exact same way he did (even though he would most likely get better looks)....he would probably shoot around 1 or 2% better from the field. iverson shot 43% for his career....my guess is he shoots around 44.5 for his career taking 19 shots a game.

forget kobe. do you really think that wade would shoot the same fg% if he shot 22 shots a game instead of 18? context and logic....seem to be lost on you dude.
wait,wait, wait. Dude AI easily is just as bad at taking bad shots as kobe. That's undeniable.

Now, let's see what happened when kobe had shaq... he shot .469 in his best season WITH shaq.

WITHOUT shaq (and w/o any true stars) his best season was .463...

So he shot the same basic percentage w/o a great center as he did with him...
In other words, YOU'RE WRONG.

[ginobli2311]

ai and ray allen beat the lakers? :roll: what the hell are you smoking. people overrate ai cuz of 01, when in reality the eastern conference was the weakest its ever been.

never said they beat the lakers. never.

what i said was....if you put ray allen instead of lynch on that 01 sixers team and kept that core together for five years i think they win two titles....at least one.

[ginobli2311]

wait,wait, wait. Dude AI easily is just as bad at taking bad shots as kobe. That's undeniable.

Now, let's see what happened when kobe had shaq... he shot .469 in his best season WITH shaq.

WITHOUT shaq (and w/o any true stars) his best season was .463...

So he shot the same basic percentage w/o a great center as he did with him...
In other words, YOU'RE WRONG.

moron. listen. its about the number of shots. iverson would not have taken 22 a game for his career playing with another great player. it would not have happened. listen....you have been owned

now lets look at all the evidence to support me:

a.i. in 98: 18 shots per game and he shot 46%
a.i. in 07: 19 shots per game and he shot 45%
a.i. in 08: 19 shots per game and he shot 46%

and he was aging and way out of his prime in 07/08. it stands to reason that a prime a.i. could have easily shot over 45% from the field for his career taking around 19 shots per game.

this has nothing to do with kobe dude. have any player int the league shoot 22 times a game for their career and their shooting percentage will go down at least 2 percent.

again....just look at wade. do you honestly think his fg% would not go down if he took 3 or 4 more shots a game?

its just an added bonus to play with another great player because that means less attention can be paid to you if you have another legit option......obviously.

[indiefan24]

never said they beat the lakers. never.

what i said was....if you put ray allen instead of lynch on that 01 sixers team and kept that core together for five years i think they win two titles....at least one.

what if you put Iverson on that Bucks team? Two titles as well? :roll:

[ginobli2311]

what if you put Iverson on that Bucks team? Two titles as well? :roll:

nope. the sixers had everything to win titles except a legit number 2 offensive option. ray allen was exactly what that team needed. a great shooter thats an under-rated defender that was highly efficient from the field and did not need the ball in his hands a lot on offense.

so ray allen just adds nothing over lynch? the team that won 56 games with iverson missing 10 games and beat the kobe/shaq lakers in L.A. without ray allen......wouldn't significantly improve by adding ray allen?

seriously? we are talking about the real ray allen here ok.....you know....the guy that in the prime of his career was putting up 24 a game on 45% from the field and 40% from three.

you know....the exact player the sixers needed. but hell....they wouldn't be much better. forget all logic and context......

[indiefan24]

...thats an under-rated defender ...

Well if we're going to discuss everything logically and within the proper context, Ray Allen was not known as an "under-rated defender" prior to coming to the Celtics.

[ginobli2311]

Well if we're going to discuss everything logically and within the proper context, Ray Allen was not known as an "under-rated defender" prior to coming to the Celtics.

is that not the very definition of being under-rated?

but forget that...that is not the point. i think we can all agree that ray allen is capable of playing solid defense on a defensive minded team. right?

[indiefan24]

is that not the very definition of being under-rated?

I think it is easy to imply from my statement that he was a below average defender.

[ginobli2311]

I think it is easy to imply from my statement that he was a below average defender.

so now we have to debate whether on not ray allen would be capable of playing solid defense on a defensive minded team? really?

after we just watched him play kobe bryant very well at the age of 34? really?

stop shifting the focus dude. just admit that ray allen would have been huge for the sixers and admit that iverson's career fg% would have gone up if he only was taking 19 shots a game for his career.

that is what we were debating.

[indiefan24]

just admit that ray allen would have been huge for the sixers

would vince carter, t-mac, allen houston or grant hill have been huge as well?

stupid, pointless speculation.


admit that iverson's career fg% would have gone up if he only was taking 19 shots a game for his career.

To put this in the proper context, I had nothing to do with debating iverson's fg%. You have the wrong guy.

[Rocker09]

Steve Francis.......his career went downhill after his trade to orlando..

to be fair, he was plagued w/ injuries....

[ginobli2311]

would vince carter, t-mac, allen houston or grant hill have been huge as well?

stupid, pointless speculation.



To put this in the proper context, I had nothing to do with debating iverson's fg%. You have the wrong guy.

ok. i apologize about the a.i. fg% if you agree with that then.

now. its not stupid, pointless speculation. so adding a great player like ray allen to that sixers core would not improve them? and its stupid to speculate about it?

so you could just replace parker or manu with some other scrub and the spurs win as many titles? really? you honestly believe that players don't matter?

you just expect iverson to win a title with that team around him? why does everyone else that wins titles have far better teams?

the other players you mention might have helped a lot.....but they would not have fit in as well as ray. i think that is pretty obvious. ray need less shots and is a much better knock down shooter than those players. therefore he would spread the floor even more for iverson and keep defenses honest. when iverson struggles....ray would be capable of carrying the scoring load for stretches in tough playoff games. he's a perfect fit. i don't see those other guys fiiting in quite as well. allan houston would be a good fit as well....i would just prefer allen.

and again....to put this into context. i am responding to the post that said iverson could only win a title coming off the bench. which i think is beyond absurd. you put a great shooter/player like ray allen on that sixers core 01 team and they win at least 1 title....probably 2 in a 5 year run.

[c3zz4rr]

so now we have to debate whether on not ray allen would be capable of playing solid defense on a defensive minded team? really?

after we just watched him play kobe bryant very well at the age of 34? really?

stop shifting the focus dude. just admit that ray allen would have been huge for the sixers and admit that iverson's career fg% would have gone up if he only was taking 19 shots a game for his career.

that is what we were debating.

So perkins and garnett in the lane and rondo's and pierce's willingness to leave their men open on the perimeter to swarm kobe had no effect whatsoever on him. Was it all allen? .The help defense and defensive rotations in that celtics team was amazing dude. I know you hate kobe and want to make iverson look good but you can't ignore the facts. Btw why are you bringing george lynch so much? wasn't hill starting at pf ?

Allen would have been very good for that 76ers team and iverson fg % would be a little better imo, and a line-up of iverson,allen,mckie,hill and mutombo is better than what they had,not as good defensively as before, but they still wouldn't win any titles, even if they spent 5 years together like you're suggesting.

[ginobli2311]

So perkins and garnett in the lane and rondo's and pierce's willingness to leave their men open on the perimeter to swarm kobe had no effect whatsoever on him. Was it all allen? .The help defense and defensive rotations in that celtics team was amazing dude. I know you hate kobe and want to make iverson look good but you can't ignore the facts. Btw why are you bringing george lynch so much? wasn't hill starting at pf ?

Allen would have been very good for that 76ers team and iverson fg % would be a little better imo, and a line-up of iverson,allen,mckie,hill and mutombo is better than what they had,not as good defensively as before, but they still wouldn't win any titles, even if they spent 5 years together like you're suggesting.

ok. of course not. ray allen was merely a piece of the defensive puzzle....just like he would have been on the sixers. don't forget that the 01 sixers played great great defense dude....easily on par with this celtics team. 01 sixers defensive rating= 98.9.....10 celtics defensive rating=103.8

i chose lynch because he played around 32 minutes a game and was key for the sixers....but not such a huge part of the team that it would have changed the dynamic a lot. i chose ray allen because he was the exact player the team needed and this would allow iverson to still play his game.

agree to disagree about winning titles. if that core played 5 years together they would win 65 plus games one year under larry brown en route to the title. at least 1 title. they would have not been missing anything. 2 great offensive options. great team defense. and a great coach. if they could win 56 games with iverson missing 10 games.....adding ray allen would be a huge improvement. do they beat the lakers in 01? probably not.....but its a hell of a lot closer.

[Rocker09]

I agree w/ the poster who said that kobe is overrated by some of his fans and underrated by his haters..........

Some of his fans put him in the top 5 w/c is ridiculous
his haters on the other hand put him in the top 20 w/c is just as ridiculous....
Kobe is easily in the 6-15 range of the GOAT list...

[c3zz4rr]

ok. of course not. ray allen was merely a piece of the defensive puzzle....just like he would have been on the sixers. don't forget that the 01 sixers played great great defense dude....easily on par with this celtics team. 01 sixers defensive rating= 98.9.....10 celtics defensive rating=103.8

i chose lynch because he played around 32 minutes a game and was key for the sixers....but not such a huge part of the team that it would have changed the dynamic a lot. i chose ray allen because he was the exact player the team needed and this would allow iverson to still play his game.

agree to disagree about winning titles. if that core played 5 years together they would win 65 plus games one year under larry brown en route to the title. at least 1 title. they would have not been missing anything. 2 great offensive options. great team defense. and a great coach. if they could win 56 games with iverson missing 10 games.....adding ray allen would be a huge improvement. do they beat the lakers in 01? probably not.....but its a hell of a lot closer.


Well I found out that lynch only played 22 minutes per game and only played 10 games in the playoffs, but that doesn't matter. Let's say that you are right, that they would win 65 plus games one year under larry brown. In which year do you think they would win the title? Let's say that allen joins them in the 2000-2001 season. Imo the only year i see them winning the championship is in 2003 against the spurs, but even then i see the series going to 7 games and you never know how duncan would perform in that final game, If memory serves me right he almost had a quadruple double in the closing game against the nets.

[ginobli2311]

Well I found out that lynch only played 22 minutes per game and only played 10 games in the playoffs, but that doesn't matter. Let's say that you are right, that they would win 65 plus games one year under larry brown. In which year do you think they would win the title? Let's say that allen joins them in the 2000-2001 season. Imo the only year i see them winning the championship is in 2003 against the spurs, but even then i see the series going to 7 games and you never know how duncan would perform in that final game, If memory serves me right he almost had a quadruple double in the closing game against the nets.

thats exactly why i chose lynch. replacing him would not disrupt the dynamic of that team....clearly as the sixers still made the finals even though he was hurt for most of the playoffs.

now.

i definitely think that sixers core with ray allen could beat the 03 spurs, the 04 pistons, and the 06 heat. would they for sure? who knows....but they would have definitely had a very good chance. the sixers would have had to replace mutombo at some point...but almost all the key players were 28 or younger. people forget that the sixers had a budding raja bell on the roster and a 23 year old nazr mohammed as well. ratliff was 27, macculloch was 25, iverson was 25, bell was 24, mckie was 28, snow was 27.....throw a 25 year old ray allen in and that is a great core with at least a 5 year championship window starting in the 02 playoffs.

they would have had to add another big and forward at some point and thats about it. and that is really not that hard to do in the current nba with so many teams dumping players and willing to trade...especially at the trade deadline. raja bell would have been a perfect fit for that team coming off the bench with his defense and perimeter shooting.

my point is that team was really a ray allen or allan houston away from competing for titles for five years. they weren't going to be a dynasty by any means....but that core would have won at least one title with a good chance to win 2.

its actually very similar to the 08 lakers for me. the lakers would have been a very good team in 08 even without gasol.....of course this is assuming bynum stayed healthy. but lets pretend bynum stayed healthy. the lakers could have definitely made a run to get to the nba finals....but really would have had no chance to win it. they were the one certain player away from being a title favorite with a solid 5 year championship window. imagine if the gasol trade does not happen and the lakers end up trading bynum for kidd (a real possibility) or something along those lines. do you see how fragile success in the nba can be? fortune smiled on the lakers and they got the exact player they needed. if the same thing had happened to the sixers......nba history looks a lot different in my opinion.

[ivogetghost]

what? how about the 01 sixers with ray allen instead of lynch. keep that core together for 5 years and they win multiple titles.


This one i agree with totally. People talk about iverson's fg% but they fail to mention the atrocious spacing on his teams. Ive never seen worse spacing on a team then those sixers teams. Ray allen would of opened up everything.

[Power_Ballin]

Easily steve francis

[AirJordan&Magic]

:roll: at anybody even considering Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, or Vince Carter to be the most overrated guards of the decade.

The most overrated guard of the 2000s was EASILY Steve Francis.

[AirJordan&Magic]

One guy that was underrrated in my opinion was Milwaulkee Ray Allen.

Ray Allen in his Bucks' days had a sick crossover dribble, sweet jumper, was good at penetrating to the rim and also finishing, and was very athletic as well.

[Rasheed1]

To me Kobe was the most Overrated star up until about 05-06. He is just now becoming the player they claimed he was in 00-01....he was hyped as this jordanesque player back when he clearly wasnt that good yet.... He is approaching that level now..I'll give kobe this much credit...Grant hill and a list of other players were hyped as the next Jordan and Kobe has come the closet (although at times it has looked ugly and cost his team because it is obvious that kobe was most concerned with being a hero instead of a good teammate)

AI was not overrated... he is shorter than me (I met him before) and he scored against guys like Shaq and and other 7 footers to a degree that not many players could match.... Guy was MVP and a straight monster for years...He was all determination

guys like B Diddy and Marbury were a tad overrated..

Wade & Lebron are not overrated... especially Wade.... to me, Wade is an awesome player...


Vince wasnt overrated in the early 2000's but somehow he fell off... Back in like 2000? VC was a beast... But it seems after the playoffs against the 76ers where he caught alot of heat for going to his grad ceremony on game day.. he has been viewed as soft from that day on and it just grew and grew...