Can someone explain the Gasol/garnett out of bound play

[dirkdiggler41]

They saw the replay, but why did they not change it?

edit. This thread was not made to discuss all the other fouls, I just wanted to know what happend in the play. Beat LA!

[nosurrender]

cuz it was not clear, and the rule is to stick by the ruling on the floor as much as possible

[scm5]

They were giving the game to Boston.

Probably the single most pivotal moment in the entire game, Lakers down 3, clearly Laker ball, and instead, they give the Celtics the ball.

[Batz]

Wonder what they were talking about in that huddle...

[KenneBell]

All of America saw it. Only Boston fans will say it was off Gasol. That's OK though. The game's over.

[Batz]

cuz it was not clear, and the rule is to stick by the ruling on the floor as much as possible
Not clear? KG clearly palmed and smacked it out of bounds... :lol

[scm5]

cuz it was not clear, and the rule is to stick by the ruling on the floor as much as possible

OH that shit was clear.

[nosurrender]

OH that shit was clear.
get a gif of gtfo

[shlver]

cuz it was not clear, and the rule is to stick by the ruling on the floor as much as possible
lol. Bullshit.

[Scoooter]

I'm guessing the call made on the floor is given deference unless the replay evidence is 100%, incontrovertably conclusive, much like in the NFL.

This was a blown call though. Which makes it entirely consistent with the rest of the game.

[srekaL]

It was clear as day that it was off Garnett. On one of the replays it shows Gasols hand 4 inches from KG's fingertips knocking it out.

[kurple]

"one call doesn't change a game" - Lakers fans

[Gevz2kX]

it was a bad call and should've been overturned. But the refs didn't find "clear" evidence that they made a mistake, so they have to go with the original call.

[StacksOnDeck]

Lakers were only down 3 at that point.

[RandomBalla55]

"one call doesn't change a game" - Lakers fans

Hahahah, so true.

[Indian guy]

I think there was enough doubt that the ball COULD've touched Gasol's finger tips last to not overturn the call. And even if they did get it wrong, who gives a fu*k? Boston deserved 15 calls in their favor after the joke that was the first 3 1/2 qtrs of this game.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Stupid call for sure.

[Showtime]

The only logic I could guess they used is that they thought KG lost the ball because Gasol pushed it out of his hands. But even then, it should be a foul, not possession out of bounds. But I don't think they can change a call to include a foul in that instance.

[devin112]

cuz it was not clear, and the rule is to stick by the ruling on the floor as much as possible

this is correct. NBA rule on court call gets over turn only if video shows conclusive proof.


They were giving the game to Boston.

Probably the single most pivotal moment in the entire game, Lakers down 3, clearly Laker ball, and instead, they give the Celtics the ball.


ref going w/ rule book. Refs called what they saw and applied video replay rule correctly. Lots of pivotal plays like rondo tapping ball outta kobes hand and blocking fish

[DuMa]

lets not act like that was the only bad call of the entire game. there were several numerous bad calls that favored one side or the other.

[KB2clutch]

how can anyone deny that that was a bad call?

[t-rex]

It was inconclusive.

However it was also very symbolic. It was another bad night for the officials. Neither the Lakers nor Celtics fans could be happy with the officiating. It was bad on both ends.

[nosurrender]

how can anyone deny that that was a bad call?
because it was by the rule book. stop crying

[rs98762001]

cuz it was not clear, and the rule is to stick by the ruling on the floor as much as possible
You've got to be kidding. That was blatant enough on the floor. The replay showed without a shadow of a doubt that KG touched the ball last. It's extremely suspicious that the refs didn't change the call in the face of such clear proof.

[srekaL]

Can somebody post some pictures of the last replay they showed on ABC. It shows that it was clearly off Garnett and it wasn't even close.

[StacksOnDeck]

I think there was enough doubt that the ball COULD've touched Gasol's finger tips last to not overturn the call. And even if they did get it wrong, who gives a fu*k? Boston deserved 15 calls in their favor after the joke that was the first 3 1/2 qtrs of this game.

Right cause the refs did not call 3 bogus fouls on Kobe which ruined the way he played.

[KB2clutch]

because it was by the rule book. stop crying

what rule says that the possession goes to the team that knocks it out of bounds?

[MMM]

in live play I thought it was off of KG and after the replay I thought they would overturn it. My guess is that they still thought Gasol fingertips were on the ball or that his hand caused KG to lose it out of bounds.

[ginobli2311]

the problem was is that the initially ruled it off gasol....there was not conclusive evidence on the replay that it went off kg....so they could not overturn it


i have no idea why everyone is so up in arms about the call. gasol's arm was going forward and clearly moved kg's hand/arm.....if i was reffing i would have called it the same way

it was a 50/50 call that could not be overturned based on the evidence

[-M-I]

Gasol touched it with his fingertips.

[Derka]

lol, this really needed a thread? K.

[skaterbasist]

Wow, either some of you are dilusional or you didn't see the game.

It should have CLEARLY been overturned.

[srekaL]

the problem was is that the initially ruled it off gasol....there was not conclusive evidence on the replay that it went off kg....so they could not overturn it


i have no idea why everyone is so up in arms about the call. gasol's arm was going forward and clearly moved kg's hand/arm.....if i was reffing i would have called it the same way

it was a 50/50 call that could not be overturned based on the evidence

I don't really think you believe what you say. What constitutes a conclusive call? On one of the replays it shows the Garnetts hand on the ball and Gasols Fingers atleast 4 inches from it.

[devin112]

"one call doesn't change a game" - Lakers fans
Hahaha

[ginobli2311]

I don't really think you believe what you say. What constitutes a conclusive call? On one of the replays it shows the Garnetts hand on the ball and Gasols Fingers atleast 4 inches from it.

you don't know the rules of the game then. the hand is part of the ball. yes, kg's hand was on the ball....but it was gasol's arm and momentum that pushed kg's hand (which is part of the ball based on the rule book) and caused the ball to go out of bounds

its a 50/50 call.....end of story

[RazorBaLade]

you don't know the rules of the game then. the hand is part of the ball. yes, kg's hand was on the ball....but it was gasol's arm and momentum that pushed kg's hand (which is part of the ball based on the rule bood) and caused the ball to go out of bounds

its a 50/50 call.....end of story

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[artex]

GIF pls pls pls

[MastahX]

It's pretty easy call to be honest.

Yes Garnett was the last to touch the ball, BUT Gasol pushed his hand and forced the ball out. The correct call could have been a foul on Gasol or Boston ball.

Pick your poison.

[zORi]

"one call doesn't change a game" - Lakers fans

As Chris Webber said "One call can mean absolutely nothing, or it can mean the whole game".

When you're in the NBA Finals and it's a 3 point deficit in the final 2 minutes, yeah, it can change the game.

[ranigma]

The only logic I could guess they used is that they thought KG lost the ball because Gasol pushed it out of his hands. But even then, it should be a foul, not possession out of bounds. But I don't think they can change a call to include a foul in that instance.
I think that is what happened.

[zORi]

It's pretty easy call to be honest.

Yes Garnett was the last to touch the ball, BUT Gasol pushed his hand and forced the ball out. The correct call could have been a foul on Gasol or Boston ball.

Pick your poison.

Actually, the correct call would've been an over the shoulder call on Garnett.

[amfirst]

That call and the call that Ron stole the ball from Rondo was two of the most crucial calls in the game. It could have tied the game.

[thejumpa]

you don't know the rules of the game then. the hand is part of the ball. yes, kg's hand was on the ball....but it was gasol's arm and momentum that pushed kg's hand (which is part of the ball based on the rule bood) and caused the ball to go out of bounds

its a 50/50 call.....end of story

I believe this is correct. After watching the replay, I thought it was out on Garnett. After they slowed it up, it looked like both their hands were on the ball. 50/50 call indeed. The refs obviously saw something we didn't. Perhaps a different angle?

[KB2clutch]

It's pretty easy call to be honest.

Yes Garnett was the last to touch the ball, BUT Gasol pushed his hand and forced the ball out. The correct call could have been a foul on Gasol or Boston ball.

Pick your poison.

cant change the call to a foul but can overturn the call on who last touched it

[Logical]

It's pretty easy call to be honest.

Yes Garnett was the last to touch the ball, BUT Gasol pushed his hand and forced the ball out. The correct call could have been a foul on Gasol or Boston ball.

Pick your poison.

Mhm. "That's the beauty of officiating."

[amfirst]

Actually, the correct call would've been an over the shoulder call on Garnett.

Yea, and if u watch the replay KG other arm was holding on Gasol hip to push him out of the way.

[ginobli2311]

That call and the call that Ron stole the ball from Rondo was two of the most crucial calls in the game. It could have tied the game.

but artest clearly fouled rondo by grabbing his arm and pulling....thus preventing rondo from getting the ball. you have to make the call......LOL.....i swear lakers fans are just the worst....the absolute worst......

you get every ****ing call in a tightly called game at home.....the exact opposite of what boston wants.......and you still find a way to complain. un****ing real

[skaterbasist]

It's pretty easy call to be honest.

Yes Garnett was the last to touch the ball, BUT Gasol pushed his hand and forced the ball out. The correct call could have been a foul on Gasol or Boston ball.

Pick your poison.

Oh please! You can pretty much call a foul everytime if that was a foul.

[artex]

That call and the call that Ron stole the ball from Rondo was two of the most crucial calls in the game. It could have tied the game.

Exactly, during clutch time too. Damn.

[amfirst]

but artest clearly fouled rondo by grabbing his arm and pulling....thus preventing rondo from getting the ball. you have to make the call......LOL.....i swear lakers fans are just the worst....the absolute worst......

you get every ****ing call in a tightly called game at home.....the exact opposite of what boston wants.......and you still find a way to complain. un****ing real

Nope watch the replay. Artest clearly knock the ball out of his hand with no contact, even the commentators said they saw no contact.

[spree43]

While we're at it, let's get an explanation of the foul on Ray Allen on Kobe's 10 footer three point play half way through the fourth

Or maybe when Kobe clearly hacked Perkins under the rim with 3-4 minutes to go and they swallowed their whistle because he already had 5 fouls

Garnett didn't hit the ball out. Gasol clearly did. Sure Garnett was last to touch it, but his hand was on the ball and Gasol hit it out of his hand. If it were across the wrist it would have been a foul on Gasol but the hand is deemed part of the ball so out off Gasol

It's the same as if you have the ball in your hand and the defender swipes, hits your hand and and the ball goes out. It's called out of bounds off them.

Boston wasn't favoured by the refs, and this coming from laker fans is laughable after the early 2000s

Whenever you lose it's the refs or the other team was just having a lucky game, when you win your too good.

Learn to take a loss

[zORi]

While we're at it, let's get an explanation of the foul on Ray Allen on Kobe's 10 footer three point play half way through the fourth

Or maybe when Kobe clearly hacked Perkins under the rim with 3-4 minutes to go and they swallowed their whistle because he already had 5 fouls

Garnett didn't hit the ball out. Gasol clearly did. Sure Garnett was last to touch it, but his hand was on the ball and Gasol hit it out of his hand. If it were across the wrist it would have been a foul on Gasol but the hand is deemed part of the ball so out off Gasol

It's the same as if you have the ball in your hand and the defender swipes, hits your hand and and the ball goes out. It's called out of bounds off them.

Boston wasn't favoured by the refs, and this coming from laker fans is laughable after the early 2000s

Whenever you lose it's the refs or the other team was just having a lucky game, when you win your too good.

Learn to take a loss

.......No it isn't.

Do you know how often that happens in the NBA?

[ranigma]

Exactly, during clutch time too. Damn.
But the foul call on Artest was correct.

[StacksOnDeck]

It's the same as if you have the ball in your hand and the defender swipes, hits your hand and and the ball goes out. It's called out of bounds off them.

:oldlol:

:oldlol:

[Derka]

Nope watch the replay. Artest clearly knock the ball out of his hand with no contact, even the commentators said they saw no contact.

Actually, Van Gundy and Breen BOTH said there was contact cos at first I didn't even see any, it happened so fast.

[Logical]

Well, the out of bounds call is explained. Now how about those 2 ALL-BALL blocks that were called fouls?

[artex]

But the foul call on Artest was correct.

Yeah that one was more iffy than the out of bounds one

[Derka]

Well, the out of bounds call is explained. Now how about those 2 ALL-BALL blocks that were called fouls?

There were probably 7-8 of those tonight that went both ways. Which two?

[T_Element]

Gonna be honest it looked like it could of gone of Gasol's fingertips. Still a questionable call, but I can see how the refs made that mistake. Certainly wasn't their worst call of the match.

[ginobli2311]

While we're at it, let's get an explanation of the foul on Ray Allen on Kobe's 10 footer three point play half way through the fourth

Or maybe when Kobe clearly hacked Perkins under the rim with 3-4 minutes to go and they swallowed their whistle because he already had 5 fouls

Garnett didn't hit the ball out. Gasol clearly did. Sure Garnett was last to touch it, but his hand was on the ball and Gasol hit it out of his hand. If it were across the wrist it would have been a foul on Gasol but the hand is deemed part of the ball so out off Gasol

It's the same as if you have the ball in your hand and the defender swipes, hits your hand and and the ball goes out. It's called out of bounds off them.

Boston wasn't favoured by the refs, and this coming from laker fans is laughable after the early 2000s

Whenever you lose it's the refs or the other team was just having a lucky game, when you win your too good.

Learn to take a loss

wow......an accurate post.

hand is part of the ball. hand is part of the ball. is was a 50/50 call and the reasons they called it that way is because gasol's momentum and arm movement sent the ball out of bounds. kg was trying to grab it and gasol was trying to hit it......its ****ing common sense guys

[game3524]

As Chris Webber said "One call can mean absolutely nothing, or it can mean the whole game".

When you're in the NBA Finals and it's a 3 point deficit in the final 2 minutes, yeah, it can change the game.

This, because right after that Rondo hits a huge jumper.

[BallsOut]

wow......an accurate post.

hand is part of the ball. hand is part of the ball. is was a 50/50 call and the reasons they called it that way is because gasol's momentum and arm movement sent the ball out of bounds. kg was trying to grab it and gasol was trying to hit it......its ****ing common sense guys

How about this for some common sense. You have over 700 posts in 2 months on ISH. Get a life son.

[LBJMVP]

wait... kobe had an and 1 shot in the final minutes and it showed the replay and no one touch him at all. it must be a conspiracy to try and help the lakers come back.

god some times you have a bad view of what happened and you go on what you think happened. the refs arent perfect its ok.

lakers fans need to get over it. it was a bad call. but take away the bad call that went the lakers way it evens out.

quit complaining. end of story.

[ginobli2311]

How about this for some common sense. You have over 700 posts in 2 months on ISH. Get a life son.

thanks dude......i really come on here to have some moron tell me to get a life. thanks for contributing to the debates.

lol at a guy on a message board making fun of another guy for being on a message board

i'm leaving the country on business tomorrow so you won't see me any longer....enjoy sir

[Amil23]

thanks dude......i really come on here to have some moron tell me to get a life. thanks for contributing to the debates.

lol at a guy on a message board making fun of another guy for being on a message board

i'm leaving the country on business tomorrow so you won't see me any longer....enjoy sir

well own em tonight for old times sake:lol

[lakerspng]

It was an unbelievably bad call. no if ands or buts about it. they had the chance to correct it and had clear evidence and decided to discard it. crap

[LBJMVP]

It was an unbelievably bad call. no if ands or buts about it. they had the chance to correct it and had clear evidence and decided to discard it. crap

wait. did you have a chance to look at the replay in extreme slo-mo and close up like the refs... i didnt think so.

im not saying it was a good call or a bad call.

[game3524]

wait. did you have a chance to look at the replay in extreme slo-mo and close up like the refs... i didnt think so.

im not saying it was a good call or a bad call.

It was a bad call......

[ginobli2311]

well own em tonight for old times sake:lol

thank amil. hold down the fort for me.

i come on here to talk ball and debate because my wife would probably kill me if i talked to her about it.

[zORi]

It was a bad call......

Definitely.

[Amil23]

thank amil. hold down the fort for me.

i come on here to talk ball and debate because my wife would probably kill me if i talked to her about it.


wont get that on this board:rolleyes:

[SoCalMike]

it was clearly a bad call... among many other bad calls.. such as artest's 6th foul? this was not an nba caliber ref called game unless your goal is for the finals to go 7 games and you want to try to influence the outcomes of games.

im disgusted for the first time ever.



:pimp:

[talk at ya]

you don't know the rules of the game then. the hand is part of the ball. yes, kg's hand was on the ball....but it was gasol's arm and momentum that pushed kg's hand (which is part of the ball based on the rule book) and caused the ball to go out of bounds

its a 50/50 call.....end of story

Yeah thats what I thought they based it off-the hand is part of the ball

[lilo]

It was a bad call......

For Lakers fans, it was. But it was a correct one nonetheless.

[LBJMVP]

It was a bad call......

kobe getting the fouled called on the jumpshot he took where it went in was a bad call.... it could have cost game.
i cant believe that the refs made some bad calls. its just unbelievable isnt it.


suck it up...

[SoCalMike]

For Lakers fans, it was. But it was a correct one nonetheless.

definitely not the "correct" call... but the refs called it the way that made most sense for the nba.



:pimp:

[game3524]

kobe getting the fouled called on the jumpshot he took where it went in was a bad call.... it could have cost game.
i cant believe that the refs made some bad calls. its just unbelievable isnt it.


suck it up...

This is worse, they had instant replay and it was obivous it went off Garnett. I guarantee most of you guys would have a differant opinion if the roles were reversed.

[LBJMVP]

1. Official basketball rules states that if the ref considers it to be a shot attempt, the shooter can retrieve his own air ball.
2. The hand is part of the ball at all times. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. However, it is widely accepted that a foul shall be called on the shot.3. A player saving the ball (in the air) can ask for and be granted a timeout even if he is going out of bounds. The key is does he have definite control of the ball as stated in official basketball rules.
4. A player may slide while trying to secure a loose ball, until momentum stops. At that point player cannot try to get up or rollover. Player securing ball while on the floor cannot try to stand up (traveling) unless he starts to dribble.
5. Official basketball rules states it is always legal to recover a fumble (or muff) even at the end of a dribble.
6. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard, if it

[Dro]

wait... kobe had an and 1 shot in the final minutes and it showed the replay and no one touch him at all. it must be a conspiracy to try and help the lakers come back.

god some times you have a bad view of what happened and you go on what you think happened. the refs arent perfect its ok.

lakers fans need to get over it. it was a bad call. but take away the bad call that went the lakers way it evens out.

quit complaining. end of story.
i like how this post was ignored

[zORi]

For Lakers fans, it was. But it was a correct one nonetheless.
I'm a Magic fan, and it was a bad call to me.

[sayitaintso]

They were giving the game to Boston.

Probably the single most pivotal moment in the entire game, Lakers down 3, clearly Laker ball, and instead, they give the Celtics the ball.

Gasol got all hand. Why didn't they send Garnett to the line?

[zORi]

[QUOTE=LBJMVP]1. Official basketball rules states that if the ref considers it to be a shot attempt, the shooter can retrieve his own air ball.
2. The hand is part of the ball at all times. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. However, it is widely accepted that a foul shall be called on the shot.3. A player saving the ball (in the air) can ask for and be granted a timeout even if he is going out of bounds. The key is does he have definite control of the ball as stated in official basketball rules.
4. A player may slide while trying to secure a loose ball, until momentum stops. At that point player cannot try to get up or rollover. Player securing ball while on the floor cannot try to stand up (traveling) unless he starts to dribble.
5. Official basketball rules states it is always legal to recover a fumble (or muff) even at the end of a dribble.
6. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard, if it

[LBJMVP]

That play happens like 20 times a game and it never goes the way they called it. They normally don't even need instant replay for it.

thanks for proving my point. they had instant replay and it was a close game and they made sure the made the right call.

its part of the rules and it was the right call. it a fact that it was the right call. sure they never call it that way, but it was the right call

[thejumpa]

It doesn't matter if you are a Magic fan, Laker fan, or Boston fan. According to the rules of the game, it couldn't have been a bad call because it was correct. It's only bad if you wanted the Lakers to win. People need to admit their bias/lack of knowledge and move the **** on.

[game3524]

That play happens like 20 times a game and it never goes the way they called it. They normally don't even need instant replay for it.

Exactly, I don't know why people are arguing this. It was a bad call, it didn't cost LA the game, but Rondo did hit that huge jumpshot to extend the lead to five.

[spree43]

Let's get some stuff straight

- the refs don't make bad call on instant replay unless they are blatantly and obviously throwing the game
- the original call was Celtics ball, therefore of had to be proven without doubt to be off Boston
- the replay appeared to show Garnett get his hand on the ball first, then Gasol hit the ball out of his hand without touching it, or maybe finger tips
- garnetts hand wasn't moving towards the direction the ball went
- reasonable doubt IMO, but if it was originally called lakers ball and reviewed it would have stayed lakers ball as well

So either you are saying the refs don't know the rules better than you or they are cheating (and so you know, if your rigging a game you don't do it on relay reviews, you do it on inconspicuous calls)

Bad calls happen in real time, not when they have time to review and discuss. So clearly if you disagree you just don't know the rules as well as the refs

[RoseCity07]

It was off of Garnett, but maybe it was a make up for that And 1 where Kobe didn't get fouled. Also, Gasol's hand was on the back of KG's hand as he was pushing it out.

I would have probably given it to LA.

[lilo]

I'm a Magic fan, and it was a bad call to me.

Nope, you do not have a stake in this series :D Did not you see that Gasol slapped Garnet's hand? The call was quite obvious to me.

[zORi]

It doesn't matter if you are a Magic fan, Laker fan, or Boston fan. According to the rules of the game, it couldn't have been a bad call because it was correct. It's only bad if you wanted the Lakers to win. People need to admit their bias/lack of knowledge and move the **** on.

And what of the Over the shoulder foul during the course of this?

I guess that was a good no-call, too? Or is it my "bias/lack of knowledge?"

GTFO, I'm not saying they stole the game from LA, but that call definitely made a difference.

[Bernie Nips]

Laker FT: 41
Celtics FT: 26 (with 8? of those coming in the final minute from intentional fouls)

Laker fans: "That one call that there are two schools of thought on cost us the game! Worst officiating ever!!"

[lilo]

And what of the Over the shoulder foul during the course of this?

I guess that was a good no-call, too? Or is it my "bias/lack of knowledge?"

GTFO, I'm not saying they stole the game from LA, but that call definitely made a difference.

Garnet was not over Gasol's shoulder. Garnet was jumping straight up whilst Gasol was leaning back towards Garnet which created an illusion that Garnet was reaching over Gasol. Commentator was wrong on this point

[LBJMVP]

Laker FT: 41
Celtics FT: 26 (with 8? of those coming in the final minute from intentional fouls)

Laker fans: "That one call that there are two schools of thought on cost us the game! Worst officiating ever!!"


great post. :rockon:

[DeeDee]

Well the game is already over.. If you dislike the call, then go cry to your mother.

[BallsOut]

thank amil. hold down the fort for me.

i come on here to talk ball and debate because my wife would probably kill me if i talked to her about it.

I think I speak for us all when I say I'm shocked to hear that you have a wife considering you're on Kobe's nuts 24/7 when you're on here. But hey, whatever makes you sleep better at night :lol

[sayitaintso]

Well the game is already over.. If you dislike the call, then go cry to your mother.

Good idea for an NBA cares commercial.

[thejumpa]

And what of the Over the shoulder foul during the course of this?

I guess that was a good no-call, too? Or is it my "bias/lack of knowledge?"

GTFO, I'm not saying they stole the game from LA, but that call definitely made a difference.

What about it? Are we discussing the out of bounds play or the supposed over the back missed call? Which one? Nobody was calling for that "foul" because there wasn't one to be called. To me, Mark Jackson sounded like he was warning KG to not get too physical. Refs were getting tight on the calls and KG had 5 fouls.

It made a difference....no shit. If you are down 3 and don't get the ball back in that situation, it's always going to make a difference to you. That statement still holds no weight because it has been proven to be the right call.

So yes, it IS your bias/lack of knowledge:confusedshrug:

[skaterbasist]

Millions of viewers, including the commentators, all acknowledged the call was bogus. A few Lebron and Celtics fans disagree.

What's the surprice here? Why bother trying to convince those who already made their dilusional mind up? :)

[Rekindled]

Millions of viewers, including the commentators, all acknowledged the call was bogus. A few Lebron and Celtics fans disagree.

What's the surprice here? Why bother trying to convince those who already made their dilusional mind up? :)

everyone cept laker homers agree that calls on pierce block and baby block were bogus

[amfirst]

Millions of viewers, including the commentators, all acknowledged the call was bogus. A few Lebron and Celtics fans disagree.

What's the surprice here? Why bother trying to convince those who already made their dilusional mind up? :)

True, I can live with it as long as the refs gives the Lakers game 3, we can call it even.

[Allstar24]

Now reverse the situation and I bet all these people would be b*tching about the refs handing the game to the Lakers, always favoring the Lakers...blah blah blah :oldlol:

Obviously one call didn't cost the Lakers this game but anyone refusing to admit the refs f*cked up here are just stupid.

[dreaming121]

in courtesy of realgm

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1871/111959295.gif

this is what you call bogus.

[nosurrender]

in courtesy of realgm

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1871/111959295.gif

this is what you call bogus.

d-wade esque

[nosurrender]

Now reverse the situation and I bet all these people would be b*tching about the refs handing the game to the Lakers, always favoring the Lakers...blah blah blah :oldlol:

Obviously one call didn't cost the Lakers this game but anyone refusing to admit the refs f*cked up here are just stupid.

they f*cked up alright, giving lakers 41 free throws, including the phantom in the gif above

[Showtime]

in courtesy of realgm

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1871/111959295.gif

this is what you call bogus.
clearly shopped. /lakerfan

[LBJ_MVP09]

clearly shopped. /lakerfan


I assume you are joking lol Yeah it's laughable that Lakers fans are the ones complaining about reffing in that game. Kobe should of had his 6th foul, but they protected him. The gif above. There were atleast 2 blocks from the Celtics that got called fouls. Big Baby got fouled atleast once in the sequence of him getting blocked 3 times in a row. etc. These are just off the top of my head. It was bad both ways but the Lakers clearly got better calling.

[iamgine]

Didn't Gasol pushed Garnett's hand (or looked like it). If that was the case, wouldn't that be the correct call?

[KNOW1EDGE]

the ball was out on KG.

The Lakers lost.

Who cares?

What is a bunch of noobs arguing in an online forum gonna change?

[PowerGlove]

Didn't Gasol pushed Garnett's hand (or looked like it). If that was the case, wouldn't that be the correct call?
Or even a loose ball foul. Gasol literally took Garnett's hand to the ball.

[ShannonElements]

the ball was out on KG.

The Lakers lost.

Who cares?

What is a bunch of noobs arguing in an online forum gonna change?

Butterfly Effect. If a bunch of noobs weren't arguing about this in an online forum the Japanese might start molesting Kate Moss look-alikes en masse.

[artex]

the ball was out on KG.

The Lakers lost.

Who cares?

What is a bunch of noobs arguing in an online forum gonna change?

win

[zORi]

What about it? Are we discussing the out of bounds play or the supposed over the back missed call? Which one? Nobody was calling for that "foul" because there wasn't one to be called. To me, Mark Jackson sounded like he was warning KG to not get too physical. Refs were getting tight on the calls and KG had 5 fouls.

It made a difference....no shit. If you are down 3 and don't get the ball back in that situation, it's always going to make a difference to you. That statement still holds no weight because it has been proven to be the right call.

So yes, it IS your bias/lack of knowledge:confusedshrug:

Then why are you three the only ones claiming this was the right call?

I guess Chris Webber and Kevin Mchale are biased and lacking knowledge as well?

GTFO, like I said, anyone can pull up examples where this call goes the other way, every time.

[thejumpa]

Then why are you three the only ones claiming this was the right call?

I guess Chris Webber and Kevin Mchale are biased and lacking knowledge as well?

GTFO, like I said, anyone can pull up examples where this call goes the other way, every time.

What do you want me to say? That Chris Webber and Kevin Mchale don't know shit? The refs reviewed the play (aka saw the same angles we did, maybe even more) and still didn't change the call. They even discussed it in their little huddle. Still didn't change it. Please, explain that to me.....I'm waiting.

I can pull up examples where they let Kobe,MJ,and LeBron take 3 steps....doesn't mean that it shouldn't be called.

Listen....I'll admit, I could be wrong on this. I don't think I am, but you never know. Maybe I'm not clear enough on the rules. Biased/lack of knowledge was a little arrogant to say, but your logic is flawed so I guess it evens out:roll:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

it is EXACTLY calls like this which lend credibility to the Conspiracy Theorists... to the Tim Donoghy believers.

NBA needs to be less transparent.

[Showtime]

it is EXACTLY calls like this which lend credibility to the Conspiracy Theorists... to the Tim Donoghy believers.

NBA needs to be less transparent.
As transparent on phantom fouls on Kobe's defenders? As transparent on calling fouls on clean blocks?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

As transparent on phantom fouls on Kobe's defenders? As transparent on calling fouls on clean blocks?

as transparent, as some would have you believe, making blantantly erroneous calls to extend the series. This one was actually reviewed. LOL.

everyone in the world knew that was off KG. even Celtic fans.

[zORi]

What do you want me to say? That Chris Webber and Kevin Mchale don't know shit? The refs reviewed the play (aka saw the same angles we did, maybe even more) and still didn't change the call. They even discussed it in their little huddle. Still didn't change it. Please, explain that to me.....I'm waiting.

I can pull up examples where they let Kobe,MJ,and LeBron take 3 steps....doesn't mean that it shouldn't be called.

Listen....I'll admit, I could be wrong on this. I don't think I am, but you never know. Maybe I'm not clear enough on the rules. Biased/lack of knowledge was a little arrogant to say, but your logic is flawed so I guess it evens out:roll:

How is my logic flawed?

Also, yeah Biased/lack of knowledge, just wasn't correct. Unless you think you know more than 2 former NBA players (one of which is openly rooting for the Celtics).

[Mor'Fiyah]

If you find yourself in here trying to justify that the call was a good call and should have been called off Gasol there is nothing left to say. You can't get any more biased than that.

[thejumpa]

How is my logic flawed?

Also, yeah Biased/lack of knowledge, just wasn't correct. Unless you think you know more than 2 former NBA players (one of which is openly rooting for the Celtics).

Well, I don't know more than Webber or McHale about basketball so I'm not going to pretend like I do. However, they are human like we are. At first glance, I said it was Lakers ball. After the replay, I said Lakers ball. After hearing a little more about the actual rules, I say Boston ball.

Your logic is flawed because bringing up examples mean little. Like I said, everyone travels and it's not called. If they make that call in the Finals, people would be pissed but it's the right call because it's the rules.

You said I was one of three arguing this. I don't even know who you were referring to. Either way, the number of people going back and forth mean little. Refs didn't change an "obvious" call. That makes me think that it wasn't so obvious after all. See what I'm saying?

[Blue&Orange]

It's so clear looking looking at the slow replay that is was Gasol that touched the ball last, that i don't understand how can even exist a discussion about it.


Unbelievable how dumb some people are.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

It's so clear looking looking at the slow replay that is was Gasol that touched the ball last, that i don't understand how can even exist a discussion about it.


Unbelievable how dumb some people are.

I think you mean KG, not Gasol.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Can someone explain how Pierce's block was a foul?
Can someone explain how Big Baby's block was a foul?
Can someone explain KG's second and fifth foul?
Can someone explain Bynum camping out in the paint the entire game?
Can someone explain Big Baby getting absolutely no calls when he was clearly getting fouled?

It's funny how the refs "gave" the game to the Celtics because of one bad call when the Lakers have gotten the majority of the calls in both Game 1 and 2.

[Blue&Orange]

I think you mean KG, not Gasol.
No I mean Gasol. Not my problem that you're dumb.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

No I mean Gasol. Not my problem that you're dumb.

outstanding post.
shows all the maturity of a 10 year old.

[Sound and Fury]

As has already been noted, there was no foul called on Gasol on the play because Gasol hit the hand of Garnett after Garnett had the ball in his hand - at that point, the hand is considered part of the ball.

As I stated elsewhere, my guess is that the reason the original call was made "Celtics ball" is that Garnett was reaching up for the ball, while Gasol was "swinging his arm" - when you see that and suddenly the ball changes direction, you assume it is due to the guy swinging his arm making contact with the ball and knocking it out of bounds.

When the referees huddled (before watching the replay), it seemed obvious none of them had an angle that would have caused them to change the call.

I was able to pull up the following link from NBA.com: http://www.nba.com/2008/news/10/23/102108videoreplayrules/index.html?rss=true

Long post short, referees may only use replay to review "boundary" calls - whether or not a shot was a 2- or a 3- pointer, whether or not a player was in or out of bounds (spatial boundaries) and with what time on the clock (or 24-second clock) a shot, foul, or out-of-bounds call was made (time boundaries).

Now, the rules change in the final two minutes of a period ( http://www.nba.com/2009/news/10/02/bog.replay/index.html ) to allow referees to change the call as to who touched a ball before it went out of bounds. I can't remember exactly when the play in question occurred off the top of my head - it was in the last 3 minutes or so, I know, but I don't think it was in the last 2 minutes (I could be wrong).

If it's outside the last 2 minutes, the referees cannot use replay to overturn the ruling. If it was inside the last 2 minutes, they should have done so. If someone has the time when it occurred, you'll have your answer - either "outside of 2 minutes, so they aren't allowed to overturn it" or "inside of 2 minutes, and it was a missed call that should have been overturned on review."

[Blue&Orange]

outstanding post.
shows all the maturity of a 10 year old.
At least i don't have the IQ of a monkey.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

At least i don't have the IQ of a monkey.

oh snap.
genius retort. :ohwell:

[smith]

From the NBA game highlights it seemed as Gasol was the last to touch the ball. His hand was reaching over KG's hand, he flicked his wrist towards the ball and his fingers were last to touch it. But that just me, I'm not here to prove anyone wrong.

[Sound and Fury]

Can someone explain how Pierce's block was a foul?
This probably goes under the "don't trust the color commentary" thread I wrote earlier, but watch Pierce's off-arm (the non-block arm) on that play - he catches the off-shoulder. The referee called "contact at the head" - which isn't quite correct - but the general idea was right.

Can someone explain how Big Baby's block was a foul? It was clean at the top; however, his momentum carried his body into Bynum's body.

Can someone explain KG's second and fifth foul?The second foul was kind of a cheap one - he and Gasol bumping shoulders - but Garnett stopped and "threw" his shoulder while Gasol just "bumped on the run" - the referees have been blowing their whistles on everything remotely resembling "attempts to physically intimidate" during this series, so no surprise they called that. As for the fifth foul, if I remember correctly, it was probably called as an "undercut" foul; Garnett moved underneath the landing space of a player after that player left the floor. Or maybe it was that the "rooting out" foul called against him when he was fighting Gasol for position. Yes, guys fight for position in the post, but Garnett's leg was placed between Gasol's legs and was bent at almost a 90-degree angle at the knee before he tried to straighten the leg up and leverage Gasol out by the butt. That particular move is something players have been warned about forever (I recall being warned not to do it when I played high school ball back in the day) because it is *very* visible and something the referees will call every time, unfortunately.

Can someone explain Bynum camping out in the paint the entire game?Offensively or defensively? Defensively, I didn't think it was a problem (he had a guy within arm's length or was "on the run" coming to help - not camping out. Offensively, I've noticed referees usually let a three-second call go if you "set a pick in the paint" and the players switch so the guy you picked is now guarding you and sitting "in front of you" and you can't simply walk forward and exit the paint. As long as you don't try to post him up and look like you're trying to shuffle your way out of the paint after you pick him off (until the shot goes up) the referees usually let that slide. Bynum does this somewhat frequently in the Lakers' cross-picks in the paint with Gasol

Can someone explain Big Baby getting absolutely no calls when he was clearly getting fouled?
That I can't explain.

It's funny how the refs "gave" the game to the Celtics because of one bad call when the Lakers have gotten the majority of the calls in both Game 1 and 2.
I disagree. Kobe was called for three pretty bogus fouls (Ray Allen flopping on the turnaround, Big Baby? moving from inside the restricted area to outside it to draw a charge after Kobe was already airborne, and the Rajon Rondo steal where Kobe was called for bumping him out of bounds when it looked to me like Kobe straightened up as soon as he saw Rondo had picked him beaten him to the ball). Fisher got called for three straight fouls on Ray Allen in the third quarter that were pretty garbage calls. Lamar Odom has almost as many fouls as minutes played.

The referees have been calling things "tight" - probably TOO tight - but both teams have had key players in foul trouble both games. The referees are calling just about anything that looks like a "physical intimidation" play a foul, they're calling a lot of "bumping" fouls off the ball in general.

One could argue that this favors the Lakers because the Celtics' gameplan is to get physical with the Lakers - particularly their bigs - but from where I sit, calling the game tightly favors the Lakers' frontcourt (who are taller and have more "finesse" to their game than the Celtics' guys), but the Celtics' backcourt (Rondo is too quick to stop and Pierce and Allen use a lot of picks and motion to get free so bumping and holding them to get them out of rhythm will be a foul). The Celtics have enough beef in the front court to bang with the Lakers, and they don't rely a lot on post play, so I think they'll be okay with that. I think the real factor in each of these games is going to be whether Paul Pierce/Ray Allen get into foul trouble faster than Kobe Bryant/Derek Fisher/Ron Artest (Rondo probably won't get into foul trouble because his game is based on speed, not physicality, and the referees are calling physicality fouls) because the backups can't keep up with the other team's starters.

[chazzy]

http://imgur.com/ssiXY.jpg

[oh the horror]

http://imgur.com/ssiXY.jpg


:oldlol: Come on. As far as Im concerned, this is game over for this thread.


I'd chalk it up to this...and its merely THIS simple....If you dont think that ball was out of bounds on Garnett, then you're just an idiot, and im not going to argue it with you.



It was a bad call, because of the fact that they even BOTHERED to review it, and then still didnt call it right.


And we are talking about THIS PARTICULAR PLAY HERE. Why do people keep bringing up other various plays throughout the game? WOMEN ARGUE LIKE THAT...


Im talking about Play A.....


So you bring up Play B, C, and D? Wtf? Hello, we're talking about THIS PARTICULAR PLAY HERE.


Anyway, horrible call. Lakers lost. Life isnt over, no biggie.

[Blue&Orange]

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2326/pic1jh.png (http://img411.imageshack.us/i/pic1jh.png/)

So, to who belongs the white hand and fingers? To Garnett? :)

Gasol hand goes over Garnett hand, and he tips the ball with his fingers.
But let hypothetically say it was Garnett touching the ball last, even then it would've have been because Gasol shoved his hand from behind.

But i think the slow replay it's even clearer then any still screeshot,
Ball trajectory equals Gasol arm and hand motion and not Garnett arm and hand motion.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

This probably goes under the "don't trust the color commentary" thread I wrote earlier, but watch Pierce's off-arm (the non-block arm) on that play - he catches the off-shoulder. The referee called "contact at the head" - which isn't quite correct - but the general idea was right. How often does that happen in the NBA? If you're gonna call soft fouls like that you might as well blow the whistle every play. (which is basically what they did last night)


It was clean at the top; however, his momentum carried his body into Bynum's body. I didn't catch that, I'll have to look at that again but from what I saw it was a clean block.


The second foul was kind of a cheap one - he and Gasol bumping shoulders - but Garnett stopped and "threw" his shoulder while Gasol just "bumped on the run" - the referees have been blowing their whistles on everything remotely resembling "attempts to physically intimidate" during this series, so no surprise they called that. How does that justify it?


As for the fifth foul, if I remember correctly, it was probably called as an "undercut" foul; Garnett moved underneath the landing space of a player after that player left the floor. No post defense in the NBA?


Offensively or defensively? Offensively.


I disagree. Kobe was called for three pretty bogus fouls (Ray Allen flopping on the turnaround, Big Baby? moving from inside the restricted area to outside it to draw a charge after Kobe was already airborne, and the Rajon Rondo steal where Kobe was called for bumping him out of bounds when it looked to me like Kobe straightened up as soon as he saw Rondo had picked him beaten him to the ball). Fisher got called for three straight fouls on Ray Allen in the third quarter that were pretty garbage calls. Lamar Odom has almost as many fouls as minutes played.

The referees have been calling things "tight" - probably TOO tight - but both teams have had key players in foul trouble both games. The referees are calling just about anything that looks like a "physical intimidation" play a foul, they're calling a lot of "bumping" fouls off the ball in general.

One could argue that this favors the Lakers because the Celtics' gameplan is to get physical with the Lakers - particularly their bigs - but from where I sit, calling the game tightly favors the Lakers' frontcourt (who are taller and have more "finesse" to their game than the Celtics' guys), but the Celtics' backcourt (Rondo is too quick to stop and Pierce and Allen use a lot of picks and motion to get free so bumping and holding them to get them out of rhythm will be a foul). The Celtics have enough beef in the front court to bang with the Lakers, and they don't rely a lot on post play, so I think they'll be okay with that. I think the real factor in each of these games is going to be whether Paul Pierce/Ray Allen get into foul trouble faster than Kobe Bryant/Derek Fisher/Ron Artest (Rondo probably won't get into foul trouble because his game is based on speed, not physicality, and the referees are calling physicality fouls) because the backups can't keep up with the other team's starters. So basically.....every call against the Celtics was the right call and every call against the Lakers was bogus?

[chazzy]

http://imgur.com/s8FW1.jpg

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?? :oldlol:

Seriously, /thread

[lilo]

:oldlol: Come on. As far as Im concerned, this is game over for this thread.


I'd chalk it up to this...and its merely THIS simple....If you dont think that ball was out of bounds on Garnett, then you're just an idiot, and im not going to argue it with you.



It was a bad call, because of the fact that they even BOTHERED to review it, and then still didnt call it right.


And we are talking about THIS PARTICULAR PLAY HERE. Why do people keep bringing up other various plays throughout the game? WOMEN ARGUE LIKE THAT...


Im talking about Play A.....


So you bring up Play B, C, and D? Wtf? Hello, we're talking about THIS PARTICULAR PLAY HERE.


Anyway, horrible call. Lakers lost. Life isnt over, no biggie.

I think it was a correct call. Garnet catched the ball (almost - his hand on the ball, i.e. part of the ball) and then Gasol slapped it (i.e. slapped the ball). This type of play is called exactly like this all the time, I do not understand why there are so many questions.

[Dave3]

http://imgur.com/s8FW1.jpg

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?? :oldlol:

Seriously, /thread
It shouldn't be /thread because there shouldn't be a thread. I hate the Lakers and want them to lose, but I was so :wtf: when they gave that ball to Boston. They showed the reply like 5 or 6 times and each time it was more obvious off of Garnett. I don't understand how a thread on this can be longer than one post...

[daprunus]

Gasol touched it with his fingertips.

Gasol is the white guy not the other one.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

I could make a thread of all the calls that didn't favor Boston throughout the series if i wanted to, but I'm not going to, it would just be a waste of time. At the end of the day Boston won Game 2, now let the crying continue.

[Blue&Orange]

http://imgur.com/s8FW1.jpg

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?? :oldlol:

Seriously, /thread
What a ****ing moron, this screeshot is when the ball is coming down, why don't you look at the screenshot when the ball is already going out of bounds, or better why don't you look at the slow replay?

[zORi]

Well, I don't know more than Webber or McHale about basketball so I'm not going to pretend like I do. However, they are human like we are. At first glance, I said it was Lakers ball. After the replay, I said Lakers ball. After hearing a little more about the actual rules, I say Boston ball.

Your logic is flawed because bringing up examples mean little. Like I said, everyone travels and it's not called. If they make that call in the Finals, people would be pissed but it's the right call because it's the rules.

You said I was one of three arguing this. I don't even know who you were referring to. Either way, the number of people going back and forth mean little. Refs didn't change an "obvious" call. That makes me think that it wasn't so obvious after all. See what I'm saying?

I see what you're saying, but Webber and Mchale said this during the post game commentary. The game was over and they got to watch the replay as many times as we did (and once more right before they commented on it).

I guess it doesn't matter now, anyway.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I'm sure they said on the commentary that they could only change the call if it was absolutely conclusive (it was at 1:59, whomever was asking about whether it was in the last 2 minutes) and I assume they decided it wasn't. However, it seems fairly clear that the ball went out of bounds off KG from the stills that have been posted above.

[Showtime]

as transparent, as some would have you believe, making blantantly erroneous calls to extend the series. This one was actually reviewed. LOL.

everyone in the world knew that was off KG. even Celtic fans.
One call isn't a conspiracy. There were bad calls that favored BOTH teams in that game.

[lilo]

It shouldn't be /thread because there shouldn't be a thread. I hate the Lakers and want them to lose, but I was so :wtf: when they gave that ball to Boston. They showed the reply like 5 or 6 times and each time it was more obvious off of Garnett. I don't understand how a thread on this can be longer than one post...

While Garnett was the last to touch the ball, the ball actually went off Gasol. Garnet's hand on the ball is considered part of the ball. It was Gasol who slapped the ball and Garnet's hand and kicked it off the court. Always called this way.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

http://imgur.com/s8FW1.jpg

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?? :oldlol:

Seriously, /thread I'm not saying it was off Gasol but this picture literally proves nothing.

[Dave3]

While Garnett was the last to touch the ball, the ball actually went off Gasol. Garnet's hand on the ball is considered part of the ball. It was Gasol who slapped the ball and Garnet's hand and kicked it off the court. Always called this way.
It's not always called this way. It's always called off who slaps the ball last. When someone comes from behind to tip the ball, their fingertips often touch the ball and that's why it's considered off of them...

[sayitaintso]

Remember that foul Garnett was called for when Gasol just slammed his body into him? If you replace Garnett with Derek Fisher on that play and Fisher flies sideways to the ground (his natural instinct because he becomes a balloon whenever a big man comes near him), would that be an offensive foul?

If yes, then Garnett needs to watch some Fisher tapes. Garnett could have bought a foul on Gasol. Instead, he took one like every Celtic big man did in game 2. Take Ray Allen cue from that foul he got on Kobe... if they make contact, just fall. No, not like the one Fisher attempted when Rondo block him and Fisher did his act of drawing a foul by shaking his upper body and falling to the ground. But imagine if a LA big man just slam on you the way Gasol did on one of Garnett five foul calls, you slam backwards, how can the referees say it was a defensive foul. It works everytime for Derek Fisher.

[Sound and Fury]

How often does that happen in the NBA? If you're gonna call soft fouls like that you might as well blow the whistle every play. (which is basically what they did last night)
No, it's basically what they've done BOTH games, not just last night.

How does that justify it?
When two players "bump on the run" the referees usually let it go as "incidental contact" - when one player stops, plants his feet (as KG did) and swings his shoulder (even a little; KG didn't swing much) into the other player, the referees usually call a foul on that player. This isn't really that much of a revelation.

No post defense in the NBA?Once a player has "begun their upward motion" (not left the floor; it's even earlier than that in the NBA, which is weird compared to other leagues), they are entitled to any unoccupied space in the path of their flight. Bruce Bowen made a living undercutting jump shooters, and it doesn't happen as often in the post, but I remember (on that play) it looked like Garnett was stumbling a bit and he moved into the space; I think it was the stumble-and-move that caused the call to be made; had he been standing there, I don't think the call gets made.

Offensively. I think I explained it in my edit. The referees often let players "stick around" in the paint during cross-screens provided they don't "post up" the guy in the paint and slowly make their way out of the paint. This doesn't make it the right call; I'm just pointing out what the referees tend to let you get away with.

So basically.....every call against the Celtics was the right call and every call against the Lakers was bogus?Not at all. But your original post said the referees were "giving the majority of the calls to the Lakers," and I was just there to provide counter-examples.

Frankly, I thought the refereeing was mediocre (there were some calls that they got right that I was surprised at because usually the referees miss those calls, and there were some pretty easy calls they botched), but as one of my friends said after a particularly nasty game I played in a few years ago, "that refereeing sucked - but it sucked both ways, so I can't really complain."

Lakers fans shouldn't be complaining they were jobbed by the refereeing trying to give the game to the Lakers (and I'm seeing people crying this). Celtics fans shouldn't be complaining the referees were trying to give the game to the Lakers (and I'm seeing people crying this). When both teams think the refereeing sucked, it probably means the refereeing was "equally bad."

(As to why there was such a large free throw disparity, I think the reason the Lakers got more Free Throws is because they were attacking the basket in the first half and built up a substantial number of free throws then - on the Celtics' side, Ray Allen was shooting the lights out from downtown and you don't often draw fouls on three point shots - and Allen was so hot - and open - that the right move was to give him the ball).

At the end of the day, the right team won Game 2, it it was neither "because of the referees" nor was it "despite the referees." The Celtics won Game 2 because (a) Ray Allen was hot early and the Lakers couldn't stay with him and (b) in the final five minutes, the Celtics moved the ball around on offense to get good looks, while the Lakers played "give the ball to Kobe (or watch Ron Artest dribble the shot clock out), stop moving on offense, and hope he bails us out" instead of the "move the ball around on offense, particularly through Gasol in the post" that was getting them points through the third and first half of the fourth quarter when Kobe was on the bench.

It's not that hard. In a tight game, the Celtics played like a cohesive unit on offense down the stretch and the Lakers didn't. The Lakers had no weak-side cutting, no screens, no motion, no posting up, no nothing - all things (well, except the posting up) Boston was doing. In a series with two really good defenses, you are going to have to move the ball around to get a good shot. At the end of the game, one team did, one team didn't, and that team won.

[chazzy]

What a ****ing moron, this screeshot is when the ball is coming down, why don't you look at the screenshot when the ball is already going out of bounds, or better why don't you look at the slow replay?

No moron, it's when when the ball IS going out. I'm watching an HD slow motion replay and taking screenshots as it's going out, and that's the last image of someone touching the ball.

[Blue&Orange]

Ok my last post on this thread, this is ridiculous:

Ball falling down vertically due to gravity:
http://i.imgur.com/s8FW1.jpg

GAsol hand still behind garnett hand

Ball already going out of bound horizontally:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2326/pic1jh.png (http://img411.imageshack.us/i/pic1jh.png/)


Can someone intelligently say why would Garnett throw the ball out of bound like that when he had the hand on the ball, see first pic? You can't can you?
Because it was Gasol trying to get the rebound from behind that threw it away. Just see the frigging slow replay!!!

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

No, it's basically what they've done BOTH games, not just last night. My point is, it needs to stop. This is the Finals and it's being officiated softer than a regular season game. They should know there's gonna be physical play, as there should be. Both teams fought hard to get here so of course they're going to go all it with the title on the line.


When two players "bump on the run" the referees usually let it go as "incidental contact" - when one player stops, plants his feet (as KG did) and swings his shoulder (even a little; KG didn't swing much) into the other player, the referees usually call a foul on that player. This isn't really that much of a revelation. This is let go a lot more than it's called. And it didn't even really look like KG swung his shoulder at him at all.


Once a player has "begun their upward motion" (not left the floor; it's even earlier than that in the NBA, which is weird compared to other leagues), they are entitled to any unoccupied space in the path of their flight. Bruce Bowen made a living undercutting jump shooters, and it doesn't happen as often in the post, but I remember (on that play) it looked like Garnett was stumbling a bit and he moved into the space; I think it was the stumble-and-move that caused the call to be made; had he been standing there, I don't think the call gets made. I'm not sure we're talking about the same play. I was talking about when Gasol and KG were fighting for position and KG got called for a foul.


Not at all. But your original post said the referees were "giving the majority of the calls to the Lakers," and I was just there to provide counter-examples.

Frankly, I thought the refereeing was mediocre (there were some calls that they got right that I was surprised at because usually the referees miss those calls, and there were some pretty easy calls they botched), but as one of my friends said after a particularly nasty game I played in a few years ago, "that refereeing sucked - but it sucked both ways, so I can't really complain."

Lakers fans shouldn't be complaining they were jobbed by the refereeing trying to give the game to the Lakers (and I'm seeing people crying this). Celtics fans shouldn't be complaining the referees were trying to give the game to the Lakers (and I'm seeing people crying this). When both teams think the refereeing sucked, it probably means the refereeing was "equally bad."

At the end of the day, the right team won Game 2. Well the Lakers did get the majority of the calls. Just look at the numbers...and it wasn't all because the Lakers were the more aggressive team.

[chazzy]

Can someone intelligently say why would Garnett throw the ball out of bound like that when he had the hand on the ball, see first pic? You can't can you?
Because it was Gasol trying to get the rebound from behind that threw it away. Just see the frigging slow replay!!!


KG with his fingertips on the ball as it's going out:

http://i.imgur.com/s8FW1.jpg

Ball going out, leaving KG's fingertips:

http://imgur.com/NzMQs.jpg

All I'm pointing out is KG physically touched it last, I'm not getting into whether Gasol touching his hand is considered a foul or whatever.

[lilo]

It's not always called this way. It's always called off who slaps the ball last. When someone comes from behind to tip the ball, their fingertips often touch the ball and that's why it's considered off of them...

Not correct. Garnet did not slap the ball, he was in position and was trying to catch it. Gasol, on the other hand, was reaching from behind and he slapped the ball (and Garnet's hand).

[crisoner]

I'm not saying it was off Gasol but this picture literally proves nothing.

I see brown fingers touching the ball...hmmmmmmmmmm.

:confusedshrug:

[crisoner]

It shouldn't be /thread because there shouldn't be a thread. I hate the Lakers and want them to lose, but I was so :wtf: when they gave that ball to Boston. They showed the reply like 5 or 6 times and each time it was more obvious off of Garnett. I don't understand how a thread on this can be longer than one post...

This guy hates the Lakers and wrote this.../thread

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

I see brown fingers touching the ball...hmmmmmmmmmm.

:confusedshrug:That picture doesn't show how close the ball is to going out of bounds.

[chazzy]

That picture doesn't show how close the ball is to going out of bounds.

http://imgur.com/NzMQs.jpg

millisecond after

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

http://imgur.com/NzMQs.jpg

millisecond after I'm not arguing who it went off of, I'm just saying that there's no way you can draw any conclusions from that picture that I quoted.

[Sound and Fury]

My point is, it needs to stop. This is the Finals and it's being officiated softer than a regular season game.
I agree that the officiating is too tight, but in the interest of not hijacking this thread further, I have put my full reply into a new thread: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4437230#post4437230

[Blue&Orange]

No moron, it's when when the ball IS going out. I'm watching an HD slow motion replay and taking screenshots as it's going out, and that's the last image of someone touching the ball.
You just made me download the game in HD, just to prove you were wrong... but it just backfired, last touch by Garnett, should have been Lakers ball, i'm the biggest moron on this thread.

[schyza]

"one call doesn't change a game" - Lakers fans

In that case can you tell your fellow Utah fans to stop whining about this play because its been 14 years and I still see people bring it up.:D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPQ3QxDZ1s


BTW I give credit were credit is due. The C’s played much better D in game 2 and Ray was un****ing believable and the Lakers were not closing on him well. That being said if Ray doesn’t have a historic shooting night it’s a completely different game. Bad calls were all around on both sides. Kobe got some BS calls but so did Ray in game 1. This is going to be a hard fought series. I just hope the Lakers can adjust and come in ready to play and not expecting the Refs to bail them out.

[samballs]

The last replay they showed last night left no doubt that the ball went off KG, but the other 2 angles weren't clear. How long and how many different views the refs have I don't know. I know I wanted Boston to get the ball and the Lakers to lose though.