Shutter Island - Spoilers

[Doomsday Dallas]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1130884/board/nest/163276299



crazy movie right there.



So he might not of been crazy?

[Doomsday Dallas]

You should edit the thread title, as it is a pretty big spoiler for those who haven't seen it yet.


The trailer is a spoiler.... everybody saw it coming...


I don't think he was crazy... Serious Conspiracy was really happening to him.

[Timmy D for MVP]

More importantly.

Was Ferris Bueller's Day Off all in Cameron's head?

[DaniloGallinari]

Too late. The thread title didn't change... :(

[v-unit]

Change the thread title douche

[Knicks101]

****. You ruined it for me. What's next, you're going to tell everybody that Snape killed Dumbledore?

[enayes]

He was definitely crazy, the ending in the movie was slightly different then that of the book. In the book he doesn't say "Is it better to live as a monster or die as a good man?". So I'm guessing that that is what is throwing people off, I guess deliberately by the makers. But the book is always right.

[niko]

How someone watched the movie and came to the conclusion it was really a conspiracy is beyond me. Do you see only what you want to?

[Doomsday Dallas]

How someone watched the movie and came to the conclusion it was really a conspiracy is beyond me. Do you see only what you want to?



It's beyond on you?

Leo himself thought it was a conspiracy against him.


The woman in the cave is the key.... did you not listen to what that b*tch had to say?

[Andrei89]

He was crazy. But then he recovered.

Last scene he pretends to be insane again because he does not want to live with the guilt hence the

"Tell me something, what would you prefer?. To live as a murderer or to die as a good man?"

[niko]

It's beyond on you?

Leo himself thought it was a conspiracy against him.


The woman in the cave is the key.... did you not listen to what that b*tch had to say?
100% and they practically wrote on the bottom of the screen IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY HE IS CRAZY.

[Doomsday Dallas]

100% and they practically wrote on the bottom of the screen IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY HE IS CRAZY.


Just remember that there were NAZI's working on that Island.

[enayes]

He was crazy. But then he recovered.

Last scene he pretends to be insane again because he does not want to live with the guilt hence the

"Tell me something, what would you prefer?. To live as a murderer or to die as a good man?"


100% WRONG. He does not pretend to be insane. And like I said before, they added that last line in the movie, it was not in the book. The story is the book.

[macmac]

100% WRONG. He does not pretend to be insane. And like I said before, they added that last line in the movie, it was not in the book. The story is the book.

Well that line leads us to believe that he was in fact pretending at the end so he wouldn't have to live with the guilt. So if that line was movie-exclusive then you can't really say the story is the book, because they made a few distinctions.

[hateraid]

Well that line leads us to believe that he was in fact pretending at the end so he wouldn't have to live with the guilt. So if that line was movie-exclusive then you can't really say the story is the book, because they made a few distinctions.


That's what I thought happened in the end.
Initially I beleive he was in denial and had a supressed memory but was rehabed.

[enayes]

Well that line leads us to believe that he was in fact pretending at the end so he wouldn't have to live with the guilt. So if that line was movie-exclusive then you can't really say the story is the book, because they made a few distinctions.


The book is how the story was meant to be told. The ending to the movie cheapened part of that. He was crazy.

[rufuspaul]

****. You ruined it for me. What's next, you're going to tell everybody that Snape killed Dumbledore?

He told me Vader was Luke's father. Bastard.

[Rizko]

****. You ruined it for me. What's next, you're going to tell everybody that Snape killed Dumbledore?
Agreed. Now I have no reason to watch this movie :ohwell:

[LJJ]

Godamn Dooms, this is almost as bad as the Sixth Sense thread.

[pete's montreux]

Dooms isn't the sharpest spoon in the shed.

[RoseCity07]

Agreed. Now I have no reason to watch this movie :ohwell:

Actually this is the kind of movie you have to see a few times. Just to see the subtle things the actors do, and try and find giveaways. Like The 6th sense, when you try to figure out if there was any parts it was obvious Bruce Willis is really dead.

[Nanners]

thanks for ruining the movie douchewad

[Doomsday Dallas]

Dooms isn't the sharpest spoon in the shed.


Honestly.... I thought the trailer made it obvious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4bznTvfP6k&feature=channel

C'mon... should be obvious to any dumb@ss here in the OTC.

[Cannonball]

ass hole

[Rizko]

Honestly.... I thought the trailer made it obvious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4bznTvfP6k&feature=channel

C'mon... should be obvious to any dumb@ss here in the OTC.
I never watched the trailer. And the commercials never implied that he was insane. It's whatever though I'll still probably watch it eventually.

[DonDadda59]

:oldlol:

No.

[RedBlackAttack]

This thread should be deleted or, at the very least, modified. What the hell, Dooms? That's a real d!ckhead move.

[HAzE024]

anyone notice the striking similarity to the plot line and ultimate twist of Nolan's masterpiece "Memento"?

By the way, I still think the ending can be taken in many ways. He could be faking it, he could be suicidal, he could have relapsed. I just can't rule out the possibility of a conspiracy. The doctors had the resources, including the knowledge of the human psyche - the real "Shutter Island" - and how truth is only what is percieved to be true. So those saying "100% wrong" and "he was obviously crazy" should chill on those remarks unless they are commenting on their own book

[Doomsday Dallas]

This thread should be deleted or, at the very least, modified. What the hell, Dooms? That's a real d!ckhead move.


Okay God Dammit... I f*cked up.

I still think judging by the trailer it should of been obvious to anybody.



http://blog.timesunion.com/movies/files/2010/02/shutter_island01.jpg


When you see something like that in the trailer.... I think a few of your brain cells should click together and maybe you would ask yourself... "Oh it looks like the character Leo plays could be crazy?"

[Doomsday Dallas]

Like I said, Scorsese, Lehane, and the actors in the Bluray special features admit that he was batshit insane. WTF more do you people need?

Nope... I don't care what they said.

I think Scorsese is secretly getting the last laugh on the audience because he knows damn well the movie can be seen from the "conspiracy" point of view... which is why the movie is a masterpiece.

Besides that... there are certain things about the film that don't make sense if there wasn't a conspiracy.

Why did Dr. Crawly say the line: "Why are you all wet baby?"


18. Notice when Teddy walks into the lighthouse Dr. Cawley says "why are you all wet Baby". This I believe is another trigger, the trigger that pushes Teddy over the edge. Notice this is the exact line Teddy says to his wife in his final vision - the vision where he believes he sees his wife has killed his three kids.

It just doesn't make sense why the doctor would say that.

[sunsfan1357]

This movie has been out for how long now? Stop complaining about damn spoilers. If someone REALLY wanted to see this movie and REALLY cared about knowing what happened they would've seen it already, at the very least asked somone about it that probably gave some stuff away. And yes the trailer did make it obvious about what happens with Leo in the movie.

As for the conspiracy, I think it's totally possible. Leo's last line I think was meant to give the whole situation some ambiguity to leave the audience arguing about what the possibilities could have been. Alas, that is what we are doing now.

[sunsfan1357]

Ummm...the DVD came out less than a week ago. And obviously some people here who haven't seen it yet were annoyed, so yeah. It's not that hard to give people a spoiler warning, or NOT POST SPOILERS IN THE ****ING THREAD TITLE. That's a spoiler people can't avoid. It's just inconsiderate.
The spoiler in the thread title is legit to complain about, but Dooms already said he screwed up. I just think the complaining is taking away from what can be a legitimate debate as to what happened with the movie. I always see people getting pissed at others who don't read through the thread and bring up points that have already been brought up, this is the same case. I got a little annoyed, but then again everyone else did. Whatevs.

Going through that thread Dooms posted on IMDB has me going back and forth towards whether he is sane or not. From the book and what the filmmakers said it appears that Leo is indeed insane but its equally intriguing looking at the other perspective.

[Doomsday Dallas]

:oldlol: So now you think the filmmakers are in on it too?

Don't forget, Andrew had been there for two years. And before being there, it's assumed that he was in other institutions(since SI was the "last stop" for patients other facilities couldn't deal with). The doctor knew everything about his story. Why did he say it? As a trigger. For the truth. That point is actually pretty accurate and doesn't lend itself to being some sort of grand conspiracy.

I can't take that list seriously anyway. That guy is twisting things. Such as the first "fact", about the cigarettes beginning the drugging process. That isn't a fact, that's wild speculation.

You still haven't explained the anagrams. Think about it. If he's sane, that means before the supposed "drugging process" he already knew about Andrew Laeddis. The guy who burned his apartment down just so happened to have a name that was an anagram to his. Then, he's searching for a missing patient, who just so happens to have a name which is an anagram for his wife's name. The Rule of Four.

C'mon. Obviously we aren't going to get anywhere, because as everyone here knows, you have a genetic predisposition towards wild conspiracy theories.



Here is the deal... I've done a little bit of research on the subject of Nazi's coming to America right after WWII... specifically scientists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

So I think the movie does have an underlying message of how the NAZI's weren't completely defeated... they actually did some "legal immigration" as that Nazi doctor suggested.


Also... it's no mystery that there were many mind control experiments taking place in the 1950's that were government / CIA sponsored.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-141002353/mind-control-experimentation-travesty.html

That's a decent article^



16. When Teddy meets the female doctor in the cave, the doctor indicates how the hospital can use a person's past traumas against them. I think this is key to understanding what happened. Teddy had THREE traumas and fears, and the conspirators manipulated these traumas and fears, and using drugs, pushed Teddy to believe in something that wasn't true.
17. Notice how the nazi doctor says to Teddy, "wounds can create monsters". I think the doctor is alluding to the fact that "traumas" can be exploiting to make anyone crazy.

from the forum I posted in the OP^


I can probably explain the anagrams but I forget the exact point in the movie where Leo mentions Andrew Laeddis's name. I will admit that's the only flaw in the "conspiracy" theory... But everything else beyond that makes sense to me.

again from the OP:


14. Notice that when the guard and Chuck go to bring the attacked patient to the infirmary, the guard says to Teddy, "no, not you, not you". This prompts Teddy to go looking for Laeddis. Then notice the lights go out and Teddy is forced to use matches (Laeddis's favorite thing) to go look for Laeddis. Notice there are also voices saying "Laeddis", "Laeddis". I think all of this is an elaborate setup used to "suggest" memories to Teddy and start making him think that his obsession with Laeddis is itself crazy. I believe the soft voices saying "Laeddis" are in fact real, and from the conspirators.

[RoseCity07]

According to the Bluray special features, in interviews with Scorsese, Lehane, and the actors, he was indeed insane. So we can put this stupid debate to rest.

I don't know man, I watched those special features. Which one said that? I didn't watch all of them, but I watched the one that pointed out why the guards were mugging him when he first got to the island, and how it was a give away when his partner took forever to unholster his weapon.

[Lamar Doom]

Here is the deal... I've done a little bit of research

awwww shit.

Add me to the list of people who think your thread title is dicky. I did dislike that they billed it as a "surprise ending" because you're automatically trying to process clues instead of just watching the story unfold.

[niko]

Doomsday, i know conspiracy theories give you a hard on, but this movie's plot did not contain one. You are rewriting the movie to a movie you wanted to see. the actual movie plot did not mean to indicate a conspiracy, and if they did to you, you either misinterpeted or the movie just did a bad job of explaining. Sorry, you are wrong. Sometimes in life people are wrong. Here, you are wrong. PERIOD.

The fact the movie banged you over the head for like 10 minutes at the end to the detriment of the movie explaining this at the end makes it funny for me. You watched that and thought CONSPIRACY! they praticially hit you with a hammer as if the audience were morons so you wouldnt think this.

and dont come back with AHA - thats what they... NO. They meant he was nuts. That's it.

[RedBlackAttack]

Okay God Dammit... I f*cked up.

I still think judging by the trailer it should of been obvious to anybody.


When you see something like that in the trailer.... I think a few of your brain cells should click together and maybe you would ask yourself... "Oh it looks like the character Leo plays could be crazy?"
It was the whole damn twist of the movie. Yes, when I saw the trailer, I thought that maybe that was going to be the plot. I also guessed that he was the 67th inmate almost immediately when watching.

However, there is a big difference between assuming that a plot twist is going to take a certain turn, guessing what that turn will be, and having someone who has seen the movie tell you what happens.

Although I was pretty certain that the movie was going to head in that direction, I didn't know until I actually saw it happen, because movies have surprised me before.

Bottom line: It isn't cool to spoil movies for those who haven't seen them and I would venture to say that a large portion of ISH hasn't seen Shutter Island since it just came out on video. If I hadn't seen the movie already and I glanced at your thread title, I would have been a lot more angry.

Not trying to dump on you... You should just be a little more considerate.

[Fatal9]

**** you mother****er.

[pete's montreux]

dooms about to get lynched Mississippi style

[Doomsday Dallas]

Doomsday, i know conspiracy theories give you a hard on, but this movie's plot did not contain one. You are rewriting the movie to a movie you wanted to see. the actual movie plot did not mean to indicate a conspiracy, and if they did to you, you either misinterpeted or the movie just did a bad job of explaining. Sorry, you are wrong. Sometimes in life people are wrong. Here, you are wrong. PERIOD.

The fact the movie banged you over the head for like 10 minutes at the end to the detriment of the movie explaining this at the end makes it funny for me. You watched that and thought CONSPIRACY! they praticially hit you with a hammer as if the audience were morons so you wouldnt think this.

and dont come back with AHA - thats what they... NO. They meant he was nuts. That's it.


Well I've looked around on the internet a little bit and I see that there are others that think the movie can be interpreted the same way.

Really what it comes down to is if that woman in the cave was real because she basically explained the conspiracy theory to the audience...

Now basically the movie does come down to weather or not Leo's visions of his (possible delusional) conspiracy theory is real or not... that's just a fact, and I'll be honest that towards the end of movie it seems like Leo really was crazy, but there are plenty of situations in the movie that suggest that he wasn't.... they just made him that way for two reasons:

1.) It was part of mind control experiment... they were doing groundbreaking tests on Leo.

2.) Leo was getting close to exposing the corruption and they had to stop him.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100228124417AAOaZB1


I still don't understand why they would let the most dangerous person on the island role play to those lengths... they are just gonna let him walk around the island even when he has been there for 2 years?

and why did the doctor say: "Why are you wet Baby?"

[PistolPete]

Just saw this movie last night. Wasn't as good as expected. I kinda figured that Leo was not getting off that island somehow. If he was crazy, then you must admit he had one of the best imaginations of the patient's there.

But then you have to ask yourself, if the Doctor told him that he was the most dangerous prisoner on the island, why would he not be locked up in Cell Block C to be begin with?? This little role-playing experiment could have ended a lot more differently, and more bloody.

[niko]

Well I've looked around on the internet a little bit and I see that there are others that think the movie can be interpreted the same way.

Really what it comes down to is if that woman in the cave was real because she basically explained the conspiracy theory to the audience...

Now basically the movie does come down to weather or not Leo's visions of his (possible delusional) conspiracy theory is real or not... that's just a fact, and I'll be honest that towards the end of movie it seems like Leo really was crazy, but there are plenty of situations in the movie that suggest that he wasn't.... they just made him that way for two reasons:

1.) It was part of mind control experiment... they were doing groundbreaking tests on Leo.

2.) Leo was getting close to exposing the corruption and they had to stop him.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100228124417AAOaZB1


I still don't understand why they would let the most dangerous person on the island role play to those lengths... they are just gonna let him walk around the island even when he has been there for 2 years?

and why did the doctor say: "Why are you wet Baby?"

Because he was wet.

And again, you are choosing to interpet the movie in a way neither the author nor the director intended it to be interpeted. I dont get why you are being so thick about it. if i paint a picture of a cow, you can tell me for a thousand years its a pig, but its a COW. i wrote it and i know.

[RedBlackAttack]

They let him go through with the roleplay because the only other option left was to lobotomize him, and Cawley wanted that to be an absolute last resort.
Exactly. The role-playing thing was the final, last-ditch effort by the institution to bring Leo's delusions to his attention. It was the only thing that they had left and it seemed like it may have worked, but as we know, he reverted back to his delusions the next day.

When they led him off at the end of the movie, it was for Leo's lobotomy.

The movie was pretty clear-cut. All of these conspiracy ideas have no basis, especially since the book makes it clear that there was no conspiracy and he was, in fact, crazy.

[Doomsday Dallas]

I just explained why that likely was. He knew every detail of Andrew's case, and used that as a jumping off point to the big reveal.

They let him go through with the roleplay because the only other option left was to lobotomize him, and Cawley wanted that to be an absolute last resort. You didn't notice how "Chuck" was with him pretty much the entire time, and was constantly asking him "Are you OK, Boss?" That's because he was his psychiatrist, and was concerned about him. You didn't notice how all the guards regarded him? With extreme apprehension, as if "Teddy" was dangerous and might attack them at any time? Ding ding ding!

Just watch it again and pay attention to the last look Cawley gives to Andrew as he walks off to be lobotomized. It's a look of deep sadness. A look of someone who had all his eggs in one basket, and failed. Not the look of someone who had just successfully mind-****ed someone.

All the "sane" theorists have is speculation. There is no fact.


You want to talk about a last look?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsgUa5m1yk
SHUTTER ISLAND ENDING


To live as a monster or to die as a good man?.... The Good Man was Leo, they were the monsters... and Leo wasn't about to let himself become their monster... he would rather die knowing he was a good man.

The nazi doctor says to Teddy, "wounds can create monsters".

[Doomsday Dallas]

More speculation and interpretation. No facts.

The nazi doctor says to Teddy, "wounds can create monsters".


that doesn't mean anything to you?


Oh and by the way.... did I mention he was a Nazi.

[RedBlackAttack]

*sigh*

Jesus, Dooms.

[nolebball]

100% WRONG. He does not pretend to be insane. And like I said before, they added that last line in the movie, it was not in the book. The story is the book.

No Andrei is right. It's BASED on the book, not the same thing; the director/screenwriter is free to change it how they want, and they decided to end it a bit lighter, with Andrew finally realizing the truth, but wanting to die before he changed back.

To Dooms, the german doctor was not a Nazi, Andrew just created that idea himself as a part of his false impression of the truth.

[vitamink420]

It was a nicely-filmed movie but I don't think there was any more to it than the "twist" that he was crazy the whole time. Me and everyone I watched it with figured out within the first act that he was nuts and we were waiting for the big twist that he was right all along, but it never came. Just a very lazy ending and I probably would've enjoyed it more if a supposed "twist" wasn't hyped up to me by everyone else who saw it.

[takeittothehoop]

Yeah Dooms is really interpreting the plot the wrong way, it's not that hard to grasp for me, it's really only that last quote that he says that throws a bit of confusion as to what mental state he is in. But he is insane, the sane arguments are just too farfetched.

[Quizno]

Nope... I don't care what they said.

pretty much sums up everything i've ever seen dooms post

[Doomsday Dallas]

pretty much sums up everything i've ever seen dooms post


I'm convinced that the movie was meant to be interpreted two ways... that's why it's brilliant.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Except there's nothing to back up the alternate interpretation but conjecture and speculation. Nothing. I know you aren't completely illogical, but c'mon. To actually believe that the filmmakers/actors, and the dude who wrote the book are part of some conspiracy against the public is lunacy.


Listed several things but you aren't listening...

I'll acknowledge that you've made a few good points - top one being the anagrams - but you've failed to acknowledge some of the good points I've made - many of which are listed in the link in the OP.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Again, all that stuff is is conjecture and speculation. Like the first "fact" about the cigarettes beginning the drugging process. That's not a fact. That's speculation. Therein lies the difference.


Did you hear what that b*tch in the cave had to say about the cigarettes?

I told you that you weren't listening.

[Doomsday Dallas]

The woman in the cave was most likely imaginary. He just happens to stumble upon her hiding place? And think about the cigarettes; "Chuck" was smoking the same ones and he didn't turn batty.

Anyway, it's futile debating with you, so I'm done. You are like Teddy. Refusing to look at the patient intake form so that you can continue to live in your delusion.


Well one last thing... Just think about how retarded it is for them to put a guard (near the lighthouse) in harms way of the most dangerous man on the island just to try to get him help... I guess they figured Teddy's life was more valuable then that guards.

Or was that imaginary like the cave woman?

Chuck was providing Leo with the cigarettes... just because he was smoking one didn't mean it was laced with drugs also.

And basically It makes no since for the doctor to say to Teddy: "Why are you all wet baby".... Infact the whole role playing conspiracy stuff makes no sense because they would not go to those lengths to try to help him. PERIOD.

But if these assholes were evil scientists they sure as hell would go to those lengths to f*ck persons mind and prevent him from exposing their operation.

[Jailblazers7]

The one part I really didn't get was when a ****ing million rats came out of the rocks of the cliff. That was just weird.

[Doomsday Dallas]

The one part I really didn't get was when a ****ing million rats came out of the rocks of the cliff. That was just weird.


Didn't we see Leo in a bathroom earlier in the movie with a single Rat in it and he was afraid of it.

Probably had something to do with facing his fear... which he had to also do when he swam to the lighthouse... (he was afraid of water)

[Jailblazers7]

I really need to watch it again at least one more time. There are probably a bunch a details (like the screams in the cliff sequence) that I missed the first go around.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Producer and screen-writer confirm Teddy was insane.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1130884/board/flat/164944625



Nope... The screen-writer and the producer are in on the conspiracy too.

:oldlol:


good thread though.



I think the thing is here that the guys on Team Sane admit the author and the filmmakers intended one and only one outcome in both the novel and the film but they are saying they can "see" a second outcome.

In this way it does not matter to them what the author or filmmakers say, they don't actually care about what they intended the message of the film to be. They are saying this does not matter because these people saw (and possibly can only see) things one way but they (those on the sane gang) can see things two ways or more.

I like that post.

[DeuceWallaces]

My girl wanted me to download this so we could watch it last night. I just wanted to thank this asshole thread title for ruining any surprise there could have been for watching it the first time.

[The Myth]

My girl wanted me to download this so we could watch it last night. I just wanted to thank this asshole thread title for ruining any surprise there could have been for watching it the first time.

honestly bro, no one ****ing cares.

[Jasi]

*SPOILERS*

I've just seen this.
I enjoyed it - I had never seen any trailer or commercial so it worked for me. I was bought into Noyce's and Dr. Solano's conspiracy theories so the idea he could be the patient didn't even touch me :D
It is one of those movies where you can collect so many hints and details when you think back at them. Cigarettes, water, the band aid on his forehead etc.
(One open question for me is: was the scene in the cave with Dr. Solando real?)

Re: the sane vs insane debate, I do think he was crazy.
I don't believe the screenwriters/director meant to make anyone think that he could be sane, BUT did they mean to leave us with the doubt that the shrinks were actually bad and did this huge role-play just as a sick experiment and not as an actual therapy?

[Riddler]

bump...

[-p.tiddy-]

sorry Dooms...you're wrong

if he was sane then why would he have those memories?...his partner WAS his doctor...etc...it makes no sense

this is your conspiracy theory head kicking in and trying to make something into something it isn't

[Smoke117]

Okay movie. Definitely overrated in general and i'm tired of Scorcese using Leo D. He's no Deniro and never will be, so stop trying to make him your leading man in every single ****ing movie you do. I mean Jesus christ...if not for DDL in 'Gangs of New York' the movie would be an absolute disaster. Leo D was ****ing horrible in that movie. The only reason to see it was how DDL stole every scene he was in. Greatest actor over the last 25 years.