Kobe Bryant 3 Year Run 2008-2010

[laronprofit9]

Playoff Stats Year-by-Year

2008
30.1 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.6 apg 48fg% 30%3P 81%FT 58TS% 51eFG%

2009
30.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 35%3P 88%FT 56TS% 49eFG%

2010
29.2 ppg 6.0 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 37%3P 84%FT 57TS% 51eFG%

2x NBA Champion
2x NBA Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
1x All Star Game MVP
3x All NBA First Team
3x All-Defensive First Team

There aren't many players who have done better.

Kobe has had one of the best 3 year runs of any NBA player ever.

[elganator]

Greatness :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[The Iron Fist]

But you forgot to minus his PER divided by the MP times the number of fouls called.

Once you calculate that,

its clear hes only in the top 200 players of all time.

[Fatal9]

So we're looking at a three year stretch where he got 30/6/6/2 on 47 FG%, 51 eFG%, 57 TS% including some epic series. 2 rings, 3 finals. Not many have done it better...agreed.

His conference finals series:

29/6/4 53% vs. Spurs (who just a year before embarassed Lebron and were top 3 defense)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. Nuggets (shut down Chris Paul that year and top 10 defense)
34/7/8 on 52% vs. Suns (who after the all-star break were top 5 defense)

[laronprofit9]

+ 3 Finals Appearances

This 3 year run is why Kobe is a better player than his contemporaries who came into the league with him. TMac, AI, VC, Stackhouse, etc....

Only Lebron and DWade are in the argument to this 3 year run of all current players.

[Jacks3]

Good stuff. I think you could make a decent case for him as a top 10 playoff performer ever.

[Jacks3]

Playoff Stats Year-by-Year

2008
30.1 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.6 apg 48fg% 30%3P 81%FT 58TS% 51eFG%

2009
30.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 35%3P 88%FT 56TS% 49eFG%

2010
29.2 ppg 6.0 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 37%3P 84%FT 57TS% 51eFG%

2x NBA Champion
2x NBA Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
1x All Star Game MVP
3x All NBA First Team
3x All-Defensive First Team

.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Batz]

So we're looking at a three year stretch where he got 30/6/6/2 on 47 FG%, 51 eFG%, 57 TS% including some epic series. 2 rings, 3 finals. Not many have done it better...agreed.

His conference finals series:

29/6/4 53% vs. Spurs (who just a year before embarassed Lebron and were top 3 defense)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. Nuggets (shut down Chris Paul that year and top 10 defense)
34/7/8 on 52% vs. Suns (who after the all-star break were top 5 defense)
Kobe Bryant = GWCFPOAT!

[crisoner]

http://inside.nike.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/38-30721-82964/blackmambateeblog.jpg

BOW DOWN TO THE BLACK MAMBA!!!! Best three year run since Shaq!!!

[bladefd]

Just wait for the Jordan stans and LeBron stans to come in and bash how Kobe doesn't compare to Jordan, etc.

Hey people, give Kobe his due for his performance the last 3 years. Yeah he shot 25% yesterday, but look at the entire 3 years not just a single game performance. Yeah Kobe isn't as good and never will be as good as Jordan but so what? Appreciate him for what he has done in the past 3 years. That 3 year stretch has to be up around top 10 all time, especially since he was able to get 2 rings as the #1 option. Nobody is asking you to admit that Kobe is the best player of all time, just appreciate what he has done whether it compares to Jordan or not. This is Kobe Bryant we are talking about, not Jordan or Magic or Kareem or Shaq or LeBron.

[TryToBeUnbias]

In before threads gets ruined.

:applause:

[catch24]

Dude has been laying the wood. That Spurs 2008 series was one of my faves.

Congrats Kobe, easily a top 10 player of all time.

:cheers:

[macpierce]

hopefully kobe is smart enough to get surgery to fix his bones

[Duncan21formvp]

Yep he has been pretty good.

[thejusman1]

That's an awesome shirt, but you couldn't resize the image a little bit? Jesus.

[R.I.P-Chick]

Where can I buy that shirt? Its awesome

[gts]

That's an awesome shirt, but you couldn't resize the image a little bit? Jesus. it's life size so you can print it out and see if it looks good on you before you actually buy one..

very considerate of crisoner if you ask me...lol

[AirGauge23]

I'm getting that shirt.

And I'm not even a fan. But I like that shirt.

[AirGauge23]

This one's nice too.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzux1kqw1z1qzuheso1_400.jpg

[Soothsayer]

Great post. Considering Kobe's Olympic play, and Olympic gold as well, it has been a truly great 3 year run for Kobe.

Kudos to one of the greatest players the nba has seen.
:cheers:

[PHILA]

Kobe Bryant = GWCFPOAT!
http://i49.tinypic.com/v2sdci.jpg

[laronprofit9]

:applause:

[32jazz]

Playoff Stats Year-by-Year

2008
30.1 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.6 apg 48fg% 30%3P 81%FT 58TS% 51eFG%

2009
30.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 35%3P 88%FT 56TS% 49eFG%

2010
29.2 ppg 6.0 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 37%3P 84%FT 57TS% 51eFG%

2x NBA Champion
2x NBA Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
1x All Star Game MVP
3x All NBA First Team
3x All-Defensive First Team

There aren't many players who have done better.

Kobe has had one of the best 3 year runs of any NBA player ever.
:applause:

I am glad you posted his effective (eFG%) for those chumps who obssess over Kobe's Shooting percentage which is as good or better on average over the past three years as others they like to compare him with.


I think I have said this someplace before.

Example:

D Fisher shoots 4-10 from the 3 point line= 12 pts
L Odom shoots 6-10 from the paint =12pts

Obviously Odom's 60% is better/more effiecient than D Fisher's 40% right?:no:

D Fish's Effective (eFG%) is 60% as well & they are both equally effeicient.

Hopefully when somone wants an honest discussion about effiecncy I wish they would use eFG%.

[All Net]

Even better is the Lakers have won the title 2 out of the last 3 years.

[NASH = BEST]

http://i49.tinypic.com/v2sdci.jpg

WOW, no traffic or smog, that must be an old picture of L.A.

[Frank Nit]

You forgot Gold Medal Winner.

[bhallic24]

So we're looking at a three year stretch where he got 30/6/6/2 on 47 FG%, 51 eFG%, 57 TS% including some epic series. 2 rings, 3 finals. Not many have done it better...agreed.

His conference finals series:

29/6/4 53% vs. Spurs (who just a year before embarassed Lebron and were top 3 defense)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. Nuggets (shut down Chris Paul that year and top 10 defense)
34/7/8 on 52% vs. Suns (who after the all-star break were top 5 defense)

Now that is just ridiculous.

[laronprofit9]

Playoff Stats Year-by-Year

2008
30.1 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.6 apg 48fg% 30%3P 81%FT 58TS% 51eFG%

2009
30.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 35%3P 88%FT 56TS% 49eFG%

2010
29.2 ppg 6.0 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 37%3P 84%FT 57TS% 51eFG%

2x NBA Champion
2x NBA Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
1x All Star Game MVP
3x All NBA First Team
3x All-Defensive First Team
1x Olympic Gold Medal

*fixed

[The_Yearning]

WOW, no traffic or smog, that must be an old picture of L.A.

No Sh!t. It's Young Jabbar after all.

[ginobli2311]

the last 3 years for kobe are better than good. its downright remarkable for a player at his age with miles on his legs to play this well. 3 finals, 2 titles, a gold medal, his first MVP, quite simply the best stretch of his career.

the lakers have a chance to do something historical over the next three years in the basketball world. the need to find a pg that can start in place of fisher and add a veteran presence on the bench to along with odom. heinrich would be perfect. there are talks about moving bynum......if they can....i think they should. he's injured constantly and if they can turn him into bosh or another solid big they should do it.....especially because the west is going to be all time weak over the next 3 years.

the thunder will be the only legit threat unless the mavs shake up their roster and put some key pieces around dirk/butler. i don't see the suns/jazz/spurs/rockets as threats. portland would need a couple more pieces as well.

like i said....the next three years could be historical for the lakers if they add the right pieces and kobe remains effective. this team proved in the finals that they can win ugly........the league should officially be scared.

[Fatal9]

Playoff Stats Year-by-Year

2008
30.1 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.6 apg 48fg% 30%3P 81%FT 58TS% 51eFG%

2009
30.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 35%3P 88%FT 56TS% 49eFG%

2010
29.2 ppg 6.0 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 37%3P 84%FT 57TS% 51eFG%

2x NBA Champion
2x NBA Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
1x All Star Game MVP
3x All NBA First Team
3x All-Defensive First Team
1x Olympic Gold Medal

*fixed
That efficiency is identical to first three-peat playoff Jordan. Crazy. Seriously, compare their FG% on twos, their eFG% and TS%, they are basically the same (though MJ was better player, scored more points etc etc).

His best series in this span....

34/5/6 on 50% vs. '08 Nuggets
29/6/4 on 53% vs. '08 Spurs (#3 ranked defense and a year before embarrassed Lebron)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. '09 Nuggets
33/7/7 on 49% vs. '08 Jazz
34/7/8 on 52% vs. '10 Suns
32/6/7 + great defense vs. '09 Magic

BEAST :bowdown:

[ImmortalD24]

He's been really really really good. :pimp:

He's going to be in his 15th season next year.. lets see if he's able to maintain that level of play for just one more post-season.

[DatDudeD]

That efficiency is identical to first three-peat playoff Jordan. Crazy. Seriously, compare their FG% on twos, their eFG% and TS%, they are basically the same (though MJ was better player, scored more points etc etc).

His best series in this span....

34/5/6 on 50% vs. '08 Nuggets
29/6/4 on 53% vs. '08 Spurs (#3 ranked defense and a year before embarrassed Lebron)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. '09 Nuggets
33/7/7 on 49% vs. '08 Jazz
34/7/8 on 52% vs. '10 Suns
32/6/7 + great defense vs. '09 Magic

BEAST :bowdown:

yeah this 3 year run has been one of the best in recent history. especially his run through the western conference playoffs the last 3 years i would put it up there with almost any of duncans and shaqs. His numbers average to about 30/6/6/2 on like 47% shooting that is about as good as any swingman since mj.

[Fatal9]

yeah this 3 year run has been one of the best in recent history. especially his run through the western conference playoffs the last 3 years i would put it up there with almost any of duncans and shaqs. His numbers average to about 30/6/6/2 on like 47% shooting that is about as good as any swingman since mj.
It really is a shame though. The stats he was averaging in the West these last three years (especially '08) and in '01 were insane, and he always brings them down in the finals. These runs are great, some of the best ever, but if he finished the job thoroughly he would be consensus top 5 by now. But he hasn't put a single run together where that has happened.

[bballer]

I would pick Vlade Divac over Kobe any day

[NY-Knicks]

that is amazing.

[laronprofit9]

31 Year Old Kobe Bryant

Still one of the best in the game.:cheers:

[imdaman99]

wtf $125????? fcuk that guy

http://cgi.ebay.com/2010-CHAMPIONS-NIKE-KOBE-BLACK-MAMBA-5-RINGS-T-SHIRTS-/190406799853?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_CSA_MC_Shirts&hash=item2c552131ed#ht_1967wt_930

[Jacks3]

That efficiency is identical to first three-peat playoff Jordan. Crazy. Seriously, compare their FG% on twos, their eFG% and TS%, they are basically the same (though MJ was better player, scored more points etc etc).

His best series in this span....

34/5/6 on 50% vs. '08 Nuggets
29/6/4 on 53% vs. '08 Spurs (#3 ranked defense and a year before embarrassed Lebron)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. '09 Nuggets
33/7/7 on 49% vs. '08 Jazz
34/7/8 on 52% vs. '10 Suns
32/6/7 + great defense vs. '09 Magic

BEAST :bowdown:
:bowdown:

[DatDudeD]

It really is a shame though. The stats he was averaging in the West these last three years (especially '08) and in '01 were insane, and he always brings them down in the finals. These runs are great, some of the best ever, but if he finished the job thoroughly he would be consensus top 5 by now. But he hasn't put a single run together where that has happened.

yeah he has yet to put up a finals series to match the other playoff series, i dont know what it is even though last year in the finals he put up 32/5/7 which is great but he also only shot like 43%. i think a few great finals performances would help his case when you look at his place all time.

[TryToBeUnbias]

yeah he has yet to put up a finals series to match the other playoff series, i dont know what it is even though last year in the finals he put up 32/5/7 which is great but he also only shot like 43%. i think a few great finals performances would help his case when you look at his place all time.
Kobe messed up his on FG% when we played the Magic by taking unnecessary shots when the game was well decided ..

[OldSchoolBBall]

It really is a shame though. The stats he was averaging in the West these last three years (especially '08) and in '01 were insane, and he always brings them down in the finals. These runs are great, some of the best ever, but if he finished the job thoroughly he would be consensus top 5 by now. But he hasn't put a single run together where that has happened.

He wouldn't be consensus top 5 of all-time if he had played great in the Finals from '08-'10, because what's keeping him out of the top 5 (5 of MJ/KAJ/Wilt/Magic/Russell/Shaq/Bird, whichever you'd like) isn't his level of play, it's the fact that he's only won 1 MVP as well as the fact that his general level of play is not as dominant as guys like MJ/KAJ/Wilt - not just in the postseason, but the regular season as well.

[DatDudeD]

He wouldn't be consensus top 5 of all-time if he had played great in the Finals from '08-'10, because what's keeping him out of the top 5 (5 of MJ/KAJ/Wilt/Magic/Russell/Shaq/Bird, whichever you'd like) isn't his level of play, it's the fact that he's only won 1 MVP as well as the fact that his general level of play is not as dominant as guys like MJ/KAJ/Wilt - not just in the postseason, but the regular season as well.

Thats true, his peak is not as high as guys like mj, kareem and wilt. Its true kobe has never dominated the leauge but due to his consistency to play at a high level well into his later years is just as impressive to me. The past 3 years are as good of a run as just about anybody post-mj era, when you factor in everything stats(reg/playoff), team success best record in the west 3 years in a row, WC champs 3 years in a row, 2 out of 3 titles, all nba 1st team offense and defense...etc, i agree with you about his peak which was nowhere near a few other guys. IMO he should have 2 or 3 MVPs but hey shaq ONLY has 1 and you can argue that his peak was equal or better than anyone not name MJ.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Thats true, his peak is not as high as guys like mj, kareem and wilt. Its true kobe has never dominated the leauge but due to his consistency to play at a high level well into his later years is just as impressive to me. The past 3 years are as good of a run as just about anybody post-mj era, when you factor in everything stats(reg/playoff), team success best record in the west 3 years in a row, WC champs 3 years in a row, 2 out of 3 titles, all nba 1st team offense and defense...etc, i agree with you about his peak which was nowhere near a few other guys. IMO he should have 2 or 3 MVPs but hey shaq ONLY has 1 and you can argue that his peak was equal or better than anyone not name MJ.

Both Shaq ('00-'02) and Duncan ('03-'05) had better 3 year spans than Kobe everything considered (regular and postseason, basic and advanced stats, team success etc.).

Kobe is easily top 10 all-time, but talking top 5 is very premature imo, considering that he'd need to accomplish significantly more than those ahead of him in order to make up for the gap in peak play. I have it like this:

MJ
KAJ
Wilt
Russell/Magic
Magic/Russell
Bird/Shaq
Shaq/Bird
Duncan/Kobe
Kobe/Duncan

I have Kobe either tied or with Duncan at #8 or slightly behind him in the #9 slot now. One more MVP and he clearly passes Duncan and moves into Shaq territory.

[Younggrease]

Both Shaq ('00-'02) and Duncan ('03-'05) had better 3 year spans than Kobe everything considered (regular and postseason, basic and advanced stats, team success etc.).

Kobe is easily top 10 all-time, but talking top 5 is very premature imo, considering that he'd need to accomplish significantly more than those ahead of him in order to make up for the gap in peak play. I have it like this:

MJ
KAJ
Wilt
Russell/Magic
Magic/Russell
Bird/Shaq
Shaq/Bird
Duncan/Kobe
Kobe/Duncan

I have Kobe either tied or with Duncan at #8 or slightly behind him in the #9 slot now. One more MVP and he clearly passes Duncan and moves into Shaq territory.

I pretty much agree with that ranking...I think for Kobe to even sniff the Magic/Bird air he has to win either 2 more titles + Finals MVPs or 1 more title + MVP + Finals MVP....If he does either one of those things then he creeps into that Bird/Magic/Shaq discussion.

[Jacks3]

lol @ Kobe above Hakeem/Duncan.

[Younggrease]

lol @ Kobe above Hakeem/Duncan.

As far as all time ranking and not peak play ---Kobe should be rated above Hakeem.

Kobe is just more accomplished than Hakeem and looks like he is gonna sustain it for a much longer time.

[BlueandGold]

the last 3 years for kobe are better than good. its downright remarkable for a player at his age with miles on his legs to play this well. 3 finals, 2 titles, a gold medal, his first MVP, quite simply the best stretch of his career.

the lakers have a chance to do something historical over the next three years in the basketball world. the need to find a pg that can start in place of fisher and add a veteran presence on the bench to along with odom. heinrich would be perfect. there are talks about moving bynum......if they can....i think they should. he's injured constantly and if they can turn him into bosh or another solid big they should do it.....especially because the west is going to be all time weak over the next 3 years.

the thunder will be the only legit threat unless the mavs shake up their roster and put some key pieces around dirk/butler. i don't see the suns/jazz/spurs/rockets as threats. portland would need a couple more pieces as well.

like i said....the next three years could be historical for the lakers if they add the right pieces and kobe remains effective. this team proved in the finals that they can win ugly........the league should officially be scared.

link? not true at all

[OldSchoolBBall]

As far as all time ranking and not peak play ---Kobe should be rated above Hakeem.

Kobe is just more accomplished than Hakeem and looks like he is gonna sustain it for a much longer time.

Yeah, I think his resume clearly puts him ahead of Hakeem, though I don't think he's ever actually had the same level of impact on games that '92-'95 Hakeem did.

[DatDudeD]

Both Shaq ('00-'02) and Duncan ('03-'05) had better 3 year spans than Kobe everything considered (regular and postseason, basic and advanced stats, team success etc.).

Kobe is easily top 10 all-time, but talking top 5 is very premature imo, considering that he'd need to accomplish significantly more than those ahead of him in order to make up for the gap in peak play. I have it like this:

MJ
KAJ
Wilt
Russell/Magic
Magic/Russell
Bird/Shaq
Shaq/Bird
Duncan/Kobe
Kobe/Duncan

I have Kobe either tied or with Duncan at #8 or slightly behind him in the #9 slot now. One more MVP and he clearly passes Duncan and moves into Shaq territory.

i agree with you for the most part, i think the only reason he isnt on par with shaq is solely because of PEAK play, which is odd because he played with him at that time and thats when kobe made his jump from a great player to a top 10 player in the league. i mean you have kobe with 5 chips/2 fmvps/1nba mvp and shaq with 4 chips/3 fmvps/1nba mvp kobes resume is arguably better than shaqs as a whole but shaqs peak was EONS better than kobes, which i think is the only eason i have shaq rated higher.

[DixieNourmous]

That's an awesome shirt, but you couldn't resize the image a little bit? Jesus.

< Printed it out and is wearing it :roll:

[Younggrease]

Yeah, I think his resume clearly puts him ahead of Hakeem, though I don't think he's ever actually had the same level of impact on games that '92-'95 Hakeem did.

During Kobe's peak skill wise he was in his worst possible situation. I would love to see the numbers Kobe would have put up if he had a team like he does now in his 2005-2006 form...

[Jacks3]

So Kobe isn't as good a basketball player as guys like Hakeem/Duncan,but is still being put above them on the All-Time list?lol. That's retarded. Honestly, the only thing that should matter is how good you are at playing the game.:pimp:

[Younggrease]

So Kobe isn't as good a basketball player as guys like Hakeem/Duncan,but is still being put above them on the All-Time list?lol. That's retarded. Honestly, the only thing that should matter is how good you are at playing the game.:pimp:

Sustaining your play matters in these discussions, accomplishments also matter. Hakeem never separated himself from his peers for the majority of his career. Its not like this guy was head and shoulders above his peers...

Kobe has been an all nba performer for god knows how long now...It not like Hakeem wasnt on good team that failed to win titles, because he was.

[Simple Jack]

Sustaining your play matters in these discussions, accomplishments also matter. Hakeem never separated himself from his peers for the majority of his career. Its not like this guy was head and shoulders above his peers...

Kobe has been an all nba performer for god knows how long now...It not like Hakeem wasnt on good team that failed to win titles, because he was.

It's hard to outshine other all-time greats. And at what point was Koe head and shoulders above ever else in the league? There is a legitimate argument as to him not even being the best player in the league any year. (05-06 I would have him as #1 but you get my point).

[Birmingham1955]

Sustaining your play matters in these discussions, accomplishments also matter. Hakeem never separated himself from his peers for the majority of his career. Its not like this guy was head and shoulders above his peers...

Kobe has been an all nba performer for god knows how long now...It not like Hakeem wasnt on good team that failed to win titles, because he was.

wade was better than kobe in 06

[RazorBaLade]

wade was better than kobe in 06

omg PLEASE tell me your reasoning for that. I'm gonna freaking laugh. Don't include the whole playoff success thing unless you also agree that Kobe > wade 08-forever.

[Birmingham1955]

omg PLEASE tell me your reasoning for that. I'm gonna freaking laugh. Don't include the whole playoff success thing unless you also agree that Kobe > wade 08-forever.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/AAHE099_8x10~Shaquille-O-Neal-And-Dwayne-Wade-2006-NBA-Finals-Posters.jpg

[RazorBaLade]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/AAHE099_8x10~Shaquille-O-Neal-And-Dwayne-Wade-2006-NBA-Finals-Posters.jpg

Aight then like I said if wade is better cuz his team was better even though stats wise kobe was better, looks like Kobe has been the best player in the league no contest since 08. Good stuff.

[Birmingham1955]

Aight then like I said if wade is better cuz his team was better even though stats wise kobe was better, looks like Kobe has been the best player in the league no contest since 08. Good stuff.

lebron since 08
http://www.posterized.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/lebroncheckmystats.jpg

[DatDudeD]

lebron since 08
http://www.posterized.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/lebroncheckmystats.jpg

when you look at it , its arguable kobe hasnt been out of the top 5 since 01 and top 3 since at least 05', not to many players have that longevity at that high level. I can say that many players and coaches considered him the best player in the nba probably at least 2 or 3 years maybe more. I will agree that his PEAK isnt higher than a lot of guys.

[lilojmayo]

Playoff Stats Year-by-Year

2008
30.1 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.6 apg 48fg% 30%3P 81%FT 58TS% 51eFG%

2009
30.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 35%3P 88%FT 56TS% 49eFG%

2010
29.2 ppg 6.0 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 37%3P 84%FT 57TS% 51eFG%

2x NBA Champion
2x NBA Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
1x All Star Game MVP
3x All NBA First Team
3x All-Defensive First Team

There aren't many players who have done better.

Kobe has had one of the best 3 year runs of any NBA player ever.

that's over about 60 playoffs games also. I don't think there will be another player to duplicate such a 3 year run for awhile, maybe lebron might

[ShaqAttack3234]

Amazing runs, as far as 3 year runs, the only players I can think of off the top of my head with 3 year runs that I'd say were better were Jordan('91-'93 or you can include '90), Shaq('00-'02), Bird('84-'86) and Olajuwon('93-'95). Magic has a case for '87-'89 as well.

As far as Olajuwon, only making it to the semi-finals in '93 hurts in comparison, but he did outplay 3 superstars at his position in the finals and conference finals, 1 of them(Robinson) he flat out embarrassed and he shut down Ewing offensively. What hurts Kareem's runs is in his prime, he didn't make it to the finals 2 consecutive years even though I think he was arguably the greatest player ever.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Amazing runs, as far as 3 year runs, the only players I can think of off the top of my head with 3 year runs that I'd say were better were Jordan('91-'93 or you can include '90), Shaq('00-'02), Bird('84-'86) and Olajuwon('93-'95). Magic has a case for '87-'89 as well/
You could throw Michael Jordan '96 - '98 in there as well. Even in his late 30's I think Jordan still had the more impressive numbers and performances. If someone could find me stats to back it up, more power yo ya (and I know there are stat fiends with these things, here is looking at you Loki)

:oldlol:

:pimp:

[lilojmayo]

You could throw Michael Jordan '96 - '98 in there as well. Even in his late 30's I think Jordan still had the more impressive numbers and performances. If someone could find me stats to back it up, more power yo ya (and I know there are stat fiends with these things, here is looking at you Loki)

:oldlol:

:pimp:

I am pretty sure that MJ averaged 30 ppg or more ever single playoff year in his career, so you could really pick whatever year in terms of individual stats. He didn't start winning playoff series until 88. 88-90 91-93 96-98 really it is pick whatever.

[Dresta]

And what were his finals numbers?

[Samurai Swoosh]

I am pretty sure that MJ averaged 30 ppg or more ever single playoff year in his career, so you could really pick whatever year in terms of individual stats. He didn't start winning playoff series until 88. 88-90 91-93 96-98 really it is pick whatever.
I know all that, really ... That's besides the point. We're talking three year periods that saw a dominant player leading his team all the way to the FINALS.

[ShaqAttack3234]

You could throw Michael Jordan '96 - '98 in there as well. Even in his late 30's I think Jordan still had the more impressive numbers and performances. If someone could find me stats to back it up, more power yo ya (and I know there are stat fiends with these things, here is looking at you Loki)

:oldlol:

:pimp:

Hmm, yeah, second 3peat jordan was great, forgot about his second run.

[thejumpa]

Great player. Incredible run. The most amazing thing is the fact that he can still play at such a high level after playing 14+ seasons, summer ball, playoffs almost every year. It's crazy to think about.

I remember having a vision that this would be a run by T-Mac and Yao and not Kobe and Pau. Now, it's kind of sad to think about:ohwell:

[Kensta]

And what were his finals numbers?

2 FMVP's

[Cyclone112]

You could throw Michael Jordan '96 - '98 in there as well. Even in his late 30's I think Jordan still had the more impressive numbers and performances. If someone could find me stats to back it up, more power yo ya (and I know there are stat fiends with these things, here is looking at you Loki)

:oldlol:

:pimp:

96 Playoffs: 31/5/4
97 Playoffs: 31/8/5
98 Playoffs: 32/5/4

[Samurai Swoosh]

96 Playoffs: 31/5/4
97 Playoffs: 31/8/5
98 Playoffs: 32/5/4
Yup ... Still better than Kobe Bryant.

:oldlol:

[laronprofit9]

This 3 year run...

I'd say no current players in the NBA have done better, except Shaq.

Shaq, MJ, Magic, and Bird are the only ones who I see had better runs.

The rest is all debateable that can be either in Kobe's favor or the other player's favor(Hakeem, Duncan, etc...)

[PHILA]

Russell: '62-'64
Chamberlain: '66-'68

[laronprofit9]

Russell: '62-'64
Chamberlain: '66-'68

Thanks for correcting me.

Yah gotta add them in too.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Russell: '62-'64
Chamberlain: '66-'68
Do you ever make a post that doesn't reference Wilt ****ing Chamberlain?

:oldlol:

[Allstar24]

He wouldn't be consensus top 5 of all-time if he had played great in the Finals from '08-'10, because what's keeping him out of the top 5 (5 of MJ/KAJ/Wilt/Magic/Russell/Shaq/Bird, whichever you'd like) isn't his level of play, it's the fact that he's only won 1 MVP as well as the fact that his general level of play is not as dominant as guys like MJ/KAJ/Wilt - not just in the postseason, but the regular season as well.
The MVP award is a popularity contest. The media knows nothing about basketball. Is there one sane person who believes Nash is a better basketball player than Kobe? Because judging players based on how many MVPs they've won would have you believe that...even though Nash has never led his team to the finals despite playing on way more stacked teams than Kobe. I wonder why...maybe because he doesn't have Kobe's talent or will to win or killer instinct. Nobody should judge players based on how many MVPs they've won.

Kobe's overall body of work including skills, championships, all-nba first teams (selected by coaches), etc are far more important factors. He's already got the same # of rings as Magic, one less than MJ, one more than Shaq. He's the player of this decade...with 7 finals appearances, 5 rings, 2 finals mvps, 2 scoring titles, 8 all-nba first teams and all-defensive first teams. He's already been called the greatest Laker of all time by BOTH Jerry West and Magic Johnson. What's keeping him out of the top 5 is one or two more championships. The Lakers have a great chance to 3-peat next year and if they do, the only thing keeping him out of the top 5 will be haters like yourself refusing to give him the credit he deserves.

[KenneBell]

Even if Kobe wins FMVP next year, there will still be people who contend that Shaq's 3 FMVPs were better and therefore count for more. Ridiculous. :roll:

[PHILA]

Do you ever make a post that doesn't reference Wilt ****ing Chamberlain?

:oldlol:

Indeed.

[Disaprine]

:applause:

[Braincells]

He also did it with 3-4 different injuries which is what makes it more amazing. I'd love to see Lebron or some other superstar play with a broken index finger. When he gets surgery on that broken finger and that bum knee, it's pretty much over for the rest of the league.

[Jacks3]

Kobe 08-10>Jordan 96-98

[ginobli2311]

Kobe 08-10>Jordan 96-98

lol...two can play that game

jordan in 02/03 > than kobe 05

how does it feel that a 39/40 year old played the game better than a 26 year old in his prime?

[King Kong]

Kobe 08-10>Jordan 96-98

:roll: :roll:

give me jordan 96-98. statistically he was slightly better, but the thing closed games in the playoffs much better and more efficiently.

[PowerGlove]

Killer Instinct such a garbage term. Scorers who can handle pressure=Killer Instinct.

I have killer instinct too.

http://www.coolrom.com/screenshots/snes/Killer%20Instinct.gif

[Disaprine]

lol...two can play that game

jordan in 02/03 > than kobe 05

how does it feel that a 39/40 year old played the game better than a 26 year old in his prime?
04-05 kobe? your joking right?

[Jacks3]

:roll: :roll:

give me jordan 96-98. statistically he was slightly better, but the thing closed games in the playoffs much better and more efficiently.
O RLY? And where is the prof of that?:rant
But seriously they're pretty close.

[Jacks3]

jordan in 02/03 > than kobe 05


:roll:

[BFRESH44]

Kobe 08-10>Jordan 96-98

How exactly do you figure that? :roll: :roll:

During that stretch, Jordan won two League MVPs, Two Finals MVPs, and a DPOY award.

Child please.

[ginobli2311]

04-05 kobe? your joking right?

why?

jordan was 30-30 in games he played with no help whatsoever.


kobe was 28-38 in games he played with the help of odom and butler.

i thought winning was all that mattered.

[Jacks3]

How exactly do you figure that? :roll: :roll:

During that stretch, Jordan won two League MVPs, Two Finals MVPs, and a DPOY.

Child please.
He didn't win a DPOY during that stretch.:oldlol:
And Kobe won 1 MVP,Two Finals MVPs.
Child please.:confusedshrug:

[Disaprine]

why?

jordan was 30-30 in games he played with no help whatsoever.


kobe was 28-38 in games he played with the help of odom and butler.

i thought winning was all that mattered.
wtf are you talking about? :roll:

[BFRESH44]

I stand corrected on the DPOY. I thought I remember Jordan winning another defensive player of the year during the second three peat.

But yea, TWO League MVP's > 1.

Jordan was still better.

Jordan avg 29-6-4 on 49% shooting in 96-97. A far more efficient season than both of Kobe'a years during that stretch.

[dynasty1978]

wtf are you talking about? :roll:

Do not feed the troll, especially one who cherry picks stats.

[Jacks3]

I stand corrected on the DPOY. I thought I rememberJordan winning another defensive player of the year during the second three peat.

But yea, TWO League MVP's > 1.

Jordan was still better.

Jordan avg 29-6-4 on 49% shooting. A far more efficient season than both of Kobe years during that stretch.
Eh, not really.Kobe's TS% numbers were actually better,though MJ did have better advanced stats.

[ginobli2311]

wtf are you talking about? :roll:

so jordan putting up 23 points 6 boards 5 assists and winning more games with less help doesn't compare to kobe putting up 27 points 6 boards and 5 assists and going 28-38 with the likes of butler and odom?????????

wow.......

[Samurai Swoosh]

Kobe 08-10>Jordan 96-98
How do you figure? Jordan's three year stretch was better in every regard. And this is funny because we are comparing a Kobe Bryant who was the age of prime Jordan's best three year playoff run, IE '91 - '93 to a Michael Jordan in his mid to late 30's.

:oldlol:

Kobe's 2008 v.s. Jordan's 1996

30 / 6 / 6 v.s. 31 / 5 / 4

Kobe's 2009 v.s. Jordan's 1997

30 / 5 / 6 v.s. 31 / 8 / 5

Kobe's 2010 v.s. Jordan's 1998

29 / 6 / 6 v.s. 32 / 5 / 4

Each one of those seasons Jordan played better. Only close exception is MAYBE Kobe's 2008 compared to Jordan's 1996. And if Jordan didn't have such an atrocious NBA Finals (by his standards) those numbers for Jordan would've been even better. But it's discounted by the slightly better rebound / assist numbers because Jordan ended the year on a win, and Kobe lost in the Finals.

Jordan's accomplishments in that time

3x Championships
2x MVPs
3x Finals MVPs
Best Regular Season Record All-Time
Tied Second Best Regular Season Record All-Time

Kobe's accomplishments in that time

2x Championships
1x MVP
2x Finals MVPs

As someone who is un-biased who loves both players ... Jordan's resume for that three year stretch is SINGIFICANTLY better, anyway you happen to cut it.

[Birmingham1955]

Eh, not really.Kobe's TS% numbers were actually better,though MJ did have better advanced stats.

mj was better by alot.
kobe hasnt even been better than lebron from 08-10

[Disaprine]

http://dunzi.wippiespace.com/pics/trollin-hatin.jpg
...

[Jacks3]

96--30.7/4.9/4.1 on 56.4% TS
97--31.1/7.9/4.8 on 52.4% TS
98--32.4/5.1/3.5 on 54.5% TS

08--30.1/5.7/5.6 on 57.7% TS
09--30.2/5.3/5.5 on 56.4% TS
10--29.2/6.0/5.5 on 56.7% TS

Kobe more efficient than 96-98 MJ. What a beast.

[Jacks3]

And this is funny because we are comparing a Kobe Bryant who was the age of prime Jordan's best three year playoff run, IE '91 - '93 to a Michael Jordan in his mid to late 30's.






That wasn't Kobe's prime. It was his 12th,13th, and 14th season.

[Heilige]

Kobe 08-10>Jordan 96-98


If you think that, why do you have a problem with people ranking Kobe ahead of Duncan and Hakeem on all-time lists?

[chazzy]

so jordan putting up 23 points 6 boards 5 assists and winning more games with less help doesn't compare to kobe putting up 27 points 6 boards and 5 assists and going 28-38 with the likes of butler and odom?????????

wow.......

Why do you so much stock into that 05 season and bring it up in every Kobe thread? That was clearly a down year for both he and the Lakers, dealing with all the injuries and coaching issues. There's a reason why he was only a All NBA 3rd team, no all nba defensive team player that year.. but was a 1st team all NBA player since 01 and either 1st or second all defensive player since 99/00. I'm not saying we should act like the season never happened, but use a little context when making statements like "Kobe couldn't even make the playoffs with Odom AND Butler LOL," especially when he won 45 games and came 2nd in MVP 1st place votes the next season WITHOUT Butler.

[ginobli2311]

eh, I have no problem with anyone taking MJ,but his run wasn't "significantly" better.

96--30.7/4.9/4.1 on 56.4% TS
97--31.1/7.9/4.8 on 52.4% TS
98--32.4/5.1/3.5 on 54.5% TS

08--30.1/5.7/5.6 on 57.7% TS
09--30.2/5.3/5.5 on 56.4% TS
10--29.2/6.0/5.5 on 56.7% TS

Very,very close.

ts% is a flawed statistic. it does not account for how important actually made shots are. points per shot attempt is by far the best indicator of efficiency.

now. if you are going to compare kobe and mj using that. you better mention how much easier it is now for perimeter players to score the ball than it was back then. both wade and lebron average more points per shot than jordan and kobe. i highly doubt people on here are willing to say that wade/lebron are even close to jordan as offensive forces.

the game now is far too easy for perimeter players to succeed so any comparison is inherently flawed.

[ginobli2311]

Why do you so much stock into that 05 season and bring it up in every Kobe thread? That was clearly a down year for both he and the Lakers, dealing with all the injuries and coaching issues. There's a reason why he was only a All NBA 3rd team, no all nba defensive team player that year.. but was a 1st team all NBA player since 01 and either 1st or second all defensive player since 99/00. I'm not saying we should act like the season never happened, but use a little context when making statements like "Kobe couldn't even make the playoffs with Odom AND Butler LOL" especially when he won 45 games and came 2nd in MVP 1st place votes the next season WITHOUT Butler.

i put stock into that season and the 06 and 07 season because they are just as important as any other season in kobe's prime. kobe was in the same situation most star players are in currently that get blamed for not winning anything. its a double standard.

in this thread i brought it up to show that jordan at age 39 was pretty close to a 26 year old kobe. its the same as the guy comparing kobe at age 28-31 to jordan at age 32-34.

[chazzy]

i put stock into that season and the 06 and 07 season because they are just as important as any other season in kobe's prime. kobe was in the same situation most star players are in currently that get blamed for not winning anything. its a double standard.


How do you explain the stark contrast between 05 and 06 despite not having the great Butler?

[chopchop20]

Last time I checked, this thread was not about Kobe being better than Jordan. Oh well, you know how some people get :oldlol:

Anyways, this has been a very impressive stretch for Kobe and certainly puts him in elite company :applause:

[ginobli2311]

How do you explain the stark contrast between 05 and 06 despite not having the great Butler?

kobe played better. so did odom. phil jackson helps a lot as well.....LOL....you make my point for me. you do realize that sometimes good players have bad games and even years right? kobe played poorly in 05.....he played much better in 06. and again....phil jackson might have helped just a little.

but again...kobe put up great numbers in the regular season but could not come close to matching those numbers in the playoffs and he and his team blew a 3-1 series lead against a very beatable suns team. for those that don't remember.....lamar odom was the 2nd best player in that series.

[chopchop20]

kobe played better. so did odom. phil jackson helps a lot as well.....LOL....you make my point for me. you do realize that sometimes good players have bad games and even years right? kobe played poorly in 05.....he played much better in 06. and again....phil jackson might have helped just a little.

but again...kobe put up great numbers in the regular season but could not come close to matching those numbers in the playoffs and he and his team blew a 3-1 series lead against a very beatable suns team. for those that don't remember.....lamar odom was the 2nd best player in that series.

Kobe scored 50 in the 1st closeout game... Tim Thomas hit a miraculous 3 pointer that kept Phoenix in and they eventually won

[Samurai Swoosh]

eh, I have no problem with anyone taking MJ,but his run wasn't "significantly" better.
Really?

3 Chips v.s. 2 Chips
2 MVPs v.s. 1 MVP
3 Finals MVPs v.s. 2 Finals MVPs
72 - 10 v.s. -
69 - 13 v.s. -

How is not a superior three year stretch?

[macpierce]

kobe didnt deserve his MVP award in 2008.......damn some ppl have no dignity/integrity, jesus :roll:

[Samurai Swoosh]

kobe didnt deserve his MVP award in 2008.......damn some ppl have no dignity/integrity, jesus :roll:
True ... but he deserved it back to back style in 2006 and 2007. 2008 was arguable ... I personally would have voted for Chris Paul. 2003 he was arguably MVP as well. But 2006 and 2007 he was easily the MVP.

[laronprofit9]

True ... but he deserved it back to back style in 2006 and 2007. 2008 was arguable ... I personally would have voted for Chris Paul. 2003 he was arguably MVP as well. But 2006 and 2007 he was easily the MVP.

Kobe deserved it in 2008.

Best record in one of the most competitive Western Conferences ever.

Only had Pau Gasol on the Lakers for 27 games during the regular season.

Kobe played all 82 games.

Kobe put up great all around numbers.

His defense this year was probably his best individual defensive season post-Shaq or at least as good as his 05-06 season.

2007, 2009, 2010 were Kobe's worst individual defensive seasons where he was selected to the all-defensive team.

2006, 2008 were great seasons for Kobe defensively.

[Jacks3]

Really?

3 Chips v.s. 2 Chips
2 MVPs v.s. 1 MVP
3 Finals MVPs v.s. 2 Finals MVPs
72 - 10 v.s. -
69 - 13 v.s. -

How is not a superior three year stretch?


96--30.7/4.9/4.1 on 56.4% TS
97--31.1/7.9/4.8 on 52.4% TS
98--32.4/5.1/3.5 on 54.5% TS

08--30.1/5.7/5.6 on 57.7% TS
09--30.2/5.3/5.5 on 56.4% TS
10--29.2/6.0/5.5 on 56.7% TS

Yeah, I'm not seeing how it's "significantly" better. I mean,that's basically saying that Bryant isn't even in the same ball-park,which is far from true.And the things you listed are more team-based...

[laronprofit9]

96--30.7/4.9/4.1 on 56.4% TS
97--31.1/7.9/4.8 on 52.4% TS
98--32.4/5.1/3.5 on 54.5% TS

08--30.1/5.7/5.6 on 57.7% TS
09--30.2/5.3/5.5 on 56.4% TS
10--29.2/6.0/5.5 on 56.7% TS

Yeah, I'm not seeing how it's "significantly" better. I mean,that's basically saying that Bryant isn't even in the same ball-park,which is far from true.And the things you listed are more team-based...

Kobe was basically a 30/6/6 player on 57% TS over 3 years. 08-10

Jordan was basically a 31/6/4 on 55% TS over 3 years. 96-98

Rounding both players numbers down/up.

Statistically I don't see a clear edge for either player.

Jordan may have the slight edge in accolades. But it's really close.

I've said it for a while, but in the current generation of players:

Lebron James is the equivalent of a '87-'89 Michael Jordan right now.

Excellent statistical production. Top PER. Ridiculous looking stat-lines from night-to-night. Best all-around numbers in the league. However, still question about him being the best since they both haven't won a championship yet at their respective points in their careers. Amazing Athleticism that gives them a tremendous advantage over anyone in the league. They are truly the definition of a match-up nightmare for the opposing team. Unmatched combination of speed, strength, and vertical leap at their position. They can play without getting tired, and coach doesn't haven't to worry at all about their minutes. Can consistently play at an elite ("best player in the league")-Level with ease and their youth allows them to play at this level seemingly endlessly. Best individual athletes in the league that makes them arguably the best individual players in the league.

Kobe Bryant is the equivalent of a '96-'98 Michael Jordan right now.

Puts up great, but not Amazing Stats(a.k.a. Lebron or Jordan 87-89). Athleticism has clearly declined from earlier in their careers. Rely mostly on jumpers, post moves, and mastery of basketball skills and knowledge to score, rather than athleticism. Can put up big games, but since they are older they have to pick and choose when to, so they don't over exert themselves. They can play at a high level for the entire season, but can only play at their absolute "best" level for stretches at a time(usually at the end of games) due to age and declined athleticism. This makes them the best "closers" in the league. However, each player has championship experience. Clutch. Competitive. Veteran Experience. To get the job done when it counts. Improved Leadership from earlier in their careers. Both are trying to do another 3-peat. Individually they may not be as athletic as they once were, but as players they help contribute to their team's success perhaps greater than at any point earlier in their careers.

Lebron James = 1987-1989 Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant = 1996-1998 Michael Jordan

I doubt either of them reach Michael's true peak which 91-93 (First 3-Peat). There was no player that was more perfect. Clutch. Championship Experience. Great Stats. Everything

MJ 91-93 combined what he had in 87-89 and 96-98 together. AKA he was a mix of Lebron and Kobe right now.

IMO: Michael Jordan from 1991 to 1993 was the greatest 3 Year Run by any NBA player ever.

Kobe's 2008-2010 is not close to that, but I do believe you can make a good argument for Kobe's recent run to being as good as MJ's from 96-98. Which I personally believe is still slightly in MJ's favor.

Not a knock on Kobe, just being in the same argument of any MJ's years is tremendous accomplishment for any NBA player.

[laronprofit9]

Kobe was basically a 30/6/6 player on 57% TS over 3 years. 08-10

Jordan was basically a 31/6/4 on 55% TS over 3 years. 96-98

Rounding both players numbers down/up.

Statistically I don't see a clear edge for either player.

Jordan may have the slight edge in accolades. But it's really close.

I've said it for a while, but in the current generation of players:

Lebron James is the equivalent of a '87-'89 Michael Jordan right now.

Excellent statistical production. Top PER. Ridiculous looking stat-lines from night-to-night. Best all-around numbers in the league. However, still question about him being the best since they both haven't won a championship yet at their respective points in their careers. Amazing Athleticism that gives them a tremendous advantage over anyone in the league. They are truly the definition of a match-up nightmare for the opposing team. Unmatched combination of speed, strength, and vertical leap at their position. They can play without getting tired, and coach doesn't haven't to worry at all about their minutes. Can consistently play at an elite ("best player in the league")-Level with ease and their youth allows them to play at this level seemingly endlessly. Best individual athletes in the league that makes them arguably the best individual players in the league.

Kobe Bryant is the equivalent of a '96-'98 Michael Jordan right now.

Puts up great, but not Amazing Stats(a.k.a. Lebron or Jordan 87-89). Athleticism has clearly declined from earlier in their careers. Rely mostly on jumpers, post moves, and mastery of basketball skills and knowledge to score, rather than athleticism. Can put up big games, but since they are older they have to pick and choose when to, so they don't over exert themselves. They can play at a high level for the entire season, but can only play at their absolute "best" level for stretches at a time(usually at the end of games) due to age and declined athleticism. This makes them the best "closers" in the league. However, each player has championship experience. Clutch. Competitive. Veteran Experience. To get the job done when it counts. Improved Leadership from earlier in their careers. Both are trying to do another 3-peat. Individually they may not be as athletic as they once were, but as players they help contribute to their team's success perhaps greater than at any point earlier in their careers.

Lebron James = 1987-1989 Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant = 1996-1998 Michael Jordan

I doubt either of them reach Michael's true peak which 91-93 (First 3-Peat). There was no player that was more perfect. Clutch. Championship Experience. Great Stats. Everything

MJ 91-93 combined what he had in 87-89 and 96-98 together. AKA he was a mix of Lebron and Kobe right now.

IMO: Michael Jordan from 1991 to 1993 was the greatest 3 Year Run by any NBA player ever.

Kobe's 2008-2010 is not close to that, but I do believe you can make a good argument for Kobe's recent run to being as good as MJ's from 96-98. Which I personally believe is still slightly in MJ's favor.

Not a knock on Kobe, just being in the same argument of any MJ's years is tremendous accomplishment for any NBA player.

How lucky must Phil Jackson have been. To coach the 2 greatest SG's in NBA history(#1 Michael Jordan, #2 Kobe Bryant). One of the most dominant big men ever (Shaq). The greatest perimeter defender ever in Scottie Pippen. 2 crazies in Rodman and Artest who were key defensive contributors. Lucky 3 point buzzer-beaters from Paxson to Kerr to Horry to Fisher.

[Birmingham1955]

Kobe was basically a 30/6/6 player on 57% TS over 3 years. 08-10

Jordan was basically a 31/6/4 on 55% TS over 3 years. 96-98

Rounding both players numbers down/up.

Statistically I don't see a clear edge for either player.

Jordan may have the slight edge in accolades. But it's really close.

I've said it for a while, but in the current generation of players:

Lebron James is the equivalent of a '87-'89 Michael Jordan right now.

Excellent statistical production. Top PER. Ridiculous looking stat-lines from night-to-night. Best all-around numbers in the league. However, still question about him being the best since they both haven't won a championship yet at their respective points in their careers. Amazing Athleticism that gives them a tremendous advantage over anyone in the league. They are truly the definition of a match-up nightmare for the opposing team. Unmatched combination of speed, strength, and vertical leap at their position. They can play without getting tired, and coach doesn't haven't to worry at all about their minutes. Can consistently play at an elite ("best player in the league")-Level with ease and their youth allows them to play at this level seemingly endlessly. Best individual athletes in the league that makes them arguably the best individual players in the league.

Kobe Bryant is the equivalent of a '96-'98 Michael Jordan right now.

Puts up great, but not Amazing Stats(a.k.a. Lebron or Jordan 87-89). Athleticism has clearly declined from earlier in their careers. Rely mostly on jumpers, post moves, and mastery of basketball skills and knowledge to score, rather than athleticism. Can put up big games, but since they are older they have to pick and choose when to, so they don't over exert themselves. They can play at a high level for the entire season, but can only play at their absolute "best" level for stretches at a time(usually at the end of games) due to age and declined athleticism. This makes them the best "closers" in the league. However, each player has championship experience. Clutch. Competitive. Veteran Experience. To get the job done when it counts. Improved Leadership from earlier in their careers. Both are trying to do another 3-peat. Individually they may not be as athletic as they once were, but as players they help contribute to their team's success perhaps greater than at any point earlier in their careers.

Lebron James = 1987-1989 Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant = 1996-1998 Michael Jordan

I doubt either of them reach Michael's true peak which 91-93 (First 3-Peat). There was no player that was more perfect. Clutch. Championship Experience. Great Stats. Everything

MJ 91-93 combined what he had in 87-89 and 96-98 together. AKA he was a mix of Lebron and Kobe right now.

IMO: Michael Jordan from 1991 to 1993 was the greatest 3 Year Run by any NBA player ever.

Kobe's 2008-2010 is not close to that, but I do believe you can make a good argument for Kobe's recent run to being as good as MJ's from 96-98. Which I personally believe is still slightly in MJ's favor.

Not a knock on Kobe, just being in the same argument of any MJ's years is tremendous accomplishment for any NBA player.

Not even close. MJ played in a much harder defensive era. Kobe this year wasnt even that impressive. He had one awful series against the Thunder and a mediocre one in the finals yet again. Kobe only does well against the **** defensives in the league like the Suns. Which raised all of his stats. You also have to factor that from 96-98, Jordan played with arguably the goat rebounder in Dennis Rodman that took a lot of boards away from MJ.Then had one of the most versatile playmakers in Scottie Pippen that look away from his assists numbers.

Stats aren't he whole story, watched the games. Jordan was a better than player offensively than Kobe from 96-98. Jordan showed up during big games, Kobe on the other hand struggles during big playoff games.

If there was a tier it would be

1.Jordan ( 96-98)
2.Current LeBron

tier gap

2a. Current Kobe
2b. Current Wade

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

Kobe was basically a 30/6/6 player on 57% TS over 3 years. 08-10

Jordan was basically a 31/6/4 on 55% TS over 3 years. 96-98

.
I dont understand why kobe fans always bright up True FG% anytime it is a kobe-jordan debate. I think most of you kobe fans would agree that MJ overall was the better player. However there are things Kobe did better than Jordan, so why use such a flawed stat

True FG% does NOT show how efficient you are. It is a bias formula that benefits outside shooters, and it is obvious jordan wasnt an outside shooter and he even said he didnt want to be because it would take away from his game.

formula is
PTS / (2 * (FGA + 0.44 * FTA)).

Think about it if you can average a lot of points on the minimum amount of shots, taking 3s and make them high rate, and have medium amount of free throws that's how you maximize this formula for a perimeter player.

Now that you know how this works, MJ scored a lot of points, but mostly 2 pointers and got to the line alot. That's why Kobe has a higher True FG%. Heck OJ Mayo had a higher True FG% than Kobe this year and I know OJ isn't more efficient right now then MJ period not even close and I'm an OJ fan.

You may ask who does this formula favor a guy like Dirk who put 64% True FG. Again he fits the bill, scores a lot, good FG%, medium amount of times the line 7 a game high makes at 91%. however what hurts him he doesnt take a lot of 3s.

You may also wonder which young perimeter guy will put up the highest True FG% in his prime. It comes down to simply one player who will be on a different league then maybe any perimeter in NBA history.

You guessed it OJ Mayo. Call me a homer, but it is true. You might say what about Durant. He doesn't take enough 3's and goes to the line way to much that is what hurts him when you do this formula.

If OJ Mayo in his absolute prime can average 28 ppg on 49% FG and can makes at least 3 3's a game on 40% 3pt. Here is the key can get to the line 7-8 times on 88-90% while minimizing his FGA.

OJ Mayo in his prime could come out with a true FG% of 65-71% For An entire season that would be the highest for any perimeter player in NBA history :bowdown:

[laronprofit9]

Not even close. MJ played in a much harder defensive era. Kobe this year wasnt even that impressive. He had one awful series against the Thunder and a mediocre one in the finals yet again. Kobe only does well against the **** defensives in the league like the Suns. Which raised all of his stats. You also have to factor that from 96-98, Jordan played with arguably the goat rebounder in Dennis Rodman that took a lot of boards away from MJ.Then had one of the most versatile playmakers in Scottie Pippen that look away from his assists numbers.

Stats aren't he whole story, watched the games. Jordan was a better than player offensively than Kobe from 96-98. Jordan showed up during big games, Kobe on the other hand struggles during big playoff games.

If there was a tier it would be

1.Jordan ( 96-98)
2.Current LeBron

tier gap

2a. Current Kobe
2b. Current Wade

.... Jordan shot 41% in the Finals.

Jordan is not this un-touchable entity, that no mere mortal can match.

It takes 5 to win a championship.

Plus Kobe has Bynum, Odom, Gasol Front court. You don't think they take away rebounds from him?:roll:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Really?

3 Chips v.s. 2 Chips
2 MVPs v.s. 1 MVP
3 Finals MVPs v.s. 2 Finals MVPs
72 - 10 v.s. -
69 - 13 v.s. -

How is not a superior three year stretch?

Not to mention the fact that Jordan utterly destroys him in all advanced metrics (PER, Win Shares etc.) in both the regular season and playoffs; and the fact that Jordan had a larger defensive impact on games. Also, MJ was relied upon to do more for the entire season each year, as opposed to Kobe who somewhat coasted and was able to preserve his energy for his very good playoff pushes.

[Soothsayer]

That efficiency is identical to first three-peat playoff Jordan. Crazy. Seriously, compare their FG% on twos, their eFG% and TS%, they are basically the same (though MJ was better player, scored more points etc etc).

His best series in this span....

34/5/6 on 50% vs. '08 Nuggets
29/6/4 on 53% vs. '08 Spurs (#3 ranked defense and a year before embarrassed Lebron)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. '09 Nuggets
33/7/7 on 49% vs. '08 Jazz
34/7/8 on 52% vs. '10 Suns
32/6/7 + great defense vs. '09 Magic

BEAST :bowdown:


It would be great if you could stop lying and trying to deceive people.

Jordan's 3 PEAT from 91-93 saw him average:

33.6 ppg
EFG% of .517
6.5 rebounds
6.6 assists
2.1 steals
1 block
won finals mvp every year.

Jordan also ousted 2 Top 5 ranked defenses in the finals in that span, and got past the defense of the 92 and 93 knicks.

To compare total production and efficiency, we can look at Playoff PER:
Jordan 91: 32.0
Jordan 92: 27.2
Jordan 93: 30.1
Average: 29.7

Kobe 08: 25.0
Kobe 09: 26.8
Kobe 10: 24.7
Average: 25.5

Kobe has been quite good in these last 3 years, but not on Jordan's level.

[Soothsayer]

.... Jordan shot 41% in the Finals.

Jordan is not this un-touchable entity, that no mere mortal can match.

It takes 5 to win a championship.

Plus Kobe has Bynum, Odom, Gasol Front court. You don't think they take away rebounds from him?:roll:


Jordan ONCE shot 41.5% in the finals, which is higher than Kobe's CAREER finals FG% of 41%.

Jordan's career finals FG%, for comparison, is 48.2%.

[Birmingham1955]

I dont understand why kobe fans always bright up True FG% anytime it is a kobe-jordan debate. I think most of you kobe fans would agree that MJ overall was the better player. However there are things Kobe did better than Jordan, so why use such a flawed stat

True FG% does NOT show how efficient you are. It is a bias formula that benefits outside shooters, and it is obvious jordan wasnt an outside shooter and he even said he didnt want to be because it would take away from his game.

formula is
PTS / (2 * (FGA + 0.44 * FTA)).

Think about it if you can average a lot of points on the minimum amount of shots, taking 3s and make them high rate, and have medium amount of free throws that's how you maximize this formula for a perimeter player.

Now that you know how this works, MJ scored a lot of points, but mostly 2 pointers and got to the line alot. That's why Kobe has a higher True FG%. Heck OJ Mayo had a higher True FG% than Kobe this year and I know OJ isn't more efficient right now then MJ period not even close and I'm an OJ fan.

You may ask who does this formula favor a guy like Dirk who put 64% True FG. Again he fits the bill, scores a lot, good FG%, medium amount of times the line 7 a game high makes at 91%. however what hurts him he doesnt take a lot of 3s.

You may also wonder which young perimeter guy will put up the highest True FG% in his prime. It comes down to simply one player who will be on a different league then maybe any perimeter in NBA history.

You guessed it OJ Mayo. Call me a homer, but it is true. You might say what about Durant. He doesn't take enough 3's and goes to the line way to much that is what hurts him when you do this formula.

If OJ Mayo in his absolute prime can average 28 ppg on 49% FG and can makes at least 3 3's a game on 40% 3pt. Here is the key can get to the line 7-8 times on 88-90% while minimizing his FGA.

OJ Mayo in his prime could come out with a true FG% of 65-71% For An entire season that would be the highest for any perimeter player in NBA history :bowdown:

first I thought you were a homer. I looked and your right Mayo does have a higher eFG% and TFG% then Kobe, and he didn't even shoot 88% from the line like he did his rookie year

[dawsey6]

This was a Kobe phrase thread that went a good 3 1/2 pages before it become a debate.

That's gotta be some kinda ISH record, right?

[Jacks3]

96--30.7/4.9/4.1 on 56.4% TS
97--31.1/7.9/4.8 on 52.4% TS
98--32.4/5.1/3.5 on 54.5% TS

08--30.1/5.7/5.6 on 57.7% TS
09--30.2/5.3/5.5 on 56.4% TS
10--29.2/6.0/5.5 on 56.7% TS

.
Kobe more efficient than 96-98 MJ. What a beast

[L.A. Jazz]

is that something like tourette syndrom?
when you read Kobe you have to type Jordan.
:hammerhead:

[Allstar24]

Jordan fanboys are beyond pathetic. They hijack every thread and make it about him. At least the Kobe ones are obsessed with someone who is still one of the best players in the league today. Jordan fanboys are just living in the past. It's laughable.

[ImmortalD24]

Jordan fanboys are beyond pathetic. They hijack every thread and make it about him. At least the Kobe ones are obsessed with someone who is still one of the best players in the league today. Jordan fanboys are just living in the past. It's laughable.
Truth. More often than not, it's Jordan fanboys who bring Jordan up into Kobe threads.

Personally, I don't care for the comparison.

[Leviathon1121]

Jordan fanboys are beyond pathetic. They hijack every thread and make it about him. At least the Kobe ones are obsessed with someone who is still one of the best players in the league today. Jordan fanboys are just living in the past. It's laughable.

The first person to bring Jordan into this thread that had nothing to do with him was Fatal, a known Kobe fan. Then his quote was brought up again by Jacks3, a Laker fan.

Oh, sorry, didn't mean to ruin your Jordan fanboy rant.

[laronprofit9]

Kobron Brames

[Fatal9]

It would be great if you could stop lying and trying to deceive people.

Jordan's 3 PEAT from 91-93 saw him average:

33.6 ppg
EFG% of .517
6.5 rebounds
6.6 assists
2.1 steals
1 block
won finals mvp every year.

Jordan also ousted 2 Top 5 ranked defenses in the finals in that span, and got past the defense of the 92 and 93 knicks.

To compare total production and efficiency, we can look at Playoff PER:
Jordan 91: 32.0
Jordan 92: 27.2
Jordan 93: 30.1
Average: 29.7

Kobe 08: 25.0
Kobe 09: 26.8
Kobe 10: 24.7
Average: 25.5

Kobe has been quite good in these last 3 years, but not on Jordan's level.

Uh, the only think I said that was identical was their scoring efficiency, which it is. You can check the FG% on twos, eFG%, TS% etc. No need to get your panties in a bunch stan. I even put in brackets that MJ was the better player (getting more asts/rebs, better defense etc) and scoring a bit more ppg wise. LOL @ you looking getting mad for no reason.

[Soothsayer]

Jordan fanboys are beyond pathetic. They hijack every thread and make it about him. At least the Kobe ones are obsessed with someone who is still one of the best players in the league today. Jordan fanboys are just living in the past. It's laughable.

Actually kiddo, you Kobe fanbois made it about Jordan by comparing Kobe's stats to Jordan.

[Soothsayer]

Uh, the only think I said that was identical was their scoring efficiency, which it is. You can check the FG% on twos, eFG%, TS% etc. No need to get your panties in a bunch stan. I even put in brackets that MJ was the better player (getting more asts/rebs, better defense etc) and scoring a bit more ppg wise. LOL @ you looking getting mad for no reason.


Seems like YOU are the stan, posting inaccurate comparisons in order to prop up a certain player. As we can see from the FACTUAL comparison, Jordan from 91-93 was quite a bit superior to Kobe from 08-10.

I don't see anyone getting mad. I see me posting the actual facts and stats refuting your claims that Kobe's stats from 08-10 in the playoffs were "basically the same" as Jordan's playoff stats from 91-93.

[Soothsayer]

Kobe more efficient than 96-98 MJ. What a beast


Kobe more efficient than MJ from 96-98?

Kobe PER (player efficiency rating) for playoffs 08-10:
08: 25.0
09: 26.8
10: 24.7
Average: 25.5

Jordan PER for playoffs 96-98:
96: 26.7
97: 27.1
98: 28.1
Average: 27.3

So no, it's not accurate to say Kobe has been more efficient in the playoffs in the last 3 years than Jordan was in the playoffs from 96-98.

It is accurate to say Kobe's TS% has been higher, which is probably what you meant. But Kobe's BEST efficiency in the playoffs over the last 3 years was basically the same as Jordan's WORST in the playoffs from 96-98.

[chazzy]

Wow, even if you compare Kobe and Jordan and still concede MJ was better, there's still lots of hurt feelings. "No, Jordan wasn't just better, he was WAYYY BETTER you stan!"

[Soothsayer]

Wow, even if you compare Kobe and Jordan and still concede MJ was better, there's still lots of hurt feelings. "No, Jordan wasn't just better, he was WAYYY BETTER you stan!"


Jordan from 91-93 was "WAY" better than Kobe these last 3 years.
Jordan from 96-98 was not way better, but was still more efficient than Kobe these last 3 years.

[Fatal9]

Seems like YOU are the stan, posting inaccurate comparisons in order to prop up a certain player. As we can see from the FACTUAL comparison, Jordan from 91-93 was quite a bit superior to Kobe from 08-10.

I don't see anyone getting mad. I see me posting the actual facts and stats refuting your claims that Kobe's stats from 08-10 in the playoffs were "basically the same" as Jordan's playoff stats from 91-93.
What the hell? :oldlol:

Wipe MJ's jizz off your screen and re-read what I posted. Compare their FG% on twos, their eFG% and TS%, they are basically the same (though MJ was better player, scored more points etc etc).

And you came in with all this PER and other garbage. No where did I compare their overall stats or say Kobe was in the same ballpark as a player as first threepeat Jordan. What a dikkrider, gets so mad at seeing the word Kobe that he can't even read correctly.

[Soothsayer]

What the hell? :oldlol:

Wipe MJ's jizz off your screen and re-read what I posted. Compare their FG% on twos, their eFG% and TS%, they are basically the same (though MJ was better player, scored more points etc etc).

And you came in with all this PER and other garbage. No where did I compare their overall stats or say Kobe was in the same ballpark as a player as first threepeat Jordan. What a dikkrider, gets so mad at seeing the word Kobe that he can't even read correctly.

Wipe Kobe's jizz off your chin first. Kobe these last 3 years has not been "basically the same" as Jordan from 91-93. Jordan was superior in every way, and FAR superior in many areas. PER reflects this chasm.
Don't get mad at REALITY, take it up with Kobe and tell him to play better.

[chazzy]

Wipe Kobe's jizz off your chin first. Kobe these last 3 years has not been "basically the same" as Jordan from 91-93. Jordan was superior in every way, and FAR superior in many areas. PER reflects this chasm.
Don't get mad at REALITY, take it up with Kobe and tell him to play better.

I question your ability to read, seriously.

[Soothsayer]

I question your ability to read, seriously.


I question your ability to do simple math.

Fatal said, "That efficiency is identical to first three-peat playoff Jordan. Crazy"

Jordan TS%, playoffs 91-93:
91: .600
92: .571
93: .553
Average: .575

Kobe, 08-10
2008: .577
2009: .564
2010: .567
Average: .569

.575 > .569 thus not "identical". Jordan also maintained this superiority with increased FGA, hard to do. We can break down FG%, and EFG% if you are slow...

[chazzy]

I question your ability to do simple math.

Fatal said, "That efficiency is identical to first three-peat playoff Jordan. Crazy"

Jordan TS%, playoffs 91-93:
91: .600
92: .571
93: .553
Average: .575

Kobe, 08-10
2008: .577
2009: .564
2010: .567
Average: .569

.575 > .569 thus not "identical". Jordan also maintained this superiority with increased FGA, hard to do. We can break down FG%, and EFG% if you are slow...

OMG .006 OF A DIFFERENCE! WHAT A STAN FATAL IS! Jesus Christ

[Soothsayer]

OMG .006 OF A DIFFERENCE! WHAT A STAN FATAL IS! Jesus Christ


It's not "identical" and neither are their EFG% or their FG%. Thus, claiming that Kobe's shooting efficiency has been "identical" is false. As well, considering Jordan took more shots, and that efficiency decreases as volume increases, this is even more impressive.

Edit:
Kobe has averaged 22.4 shots per game over 08-10 playoffs.
Jordan averaged 25.6 shots per game 91-93 playoffs.

[chazzy]

It's not "identical" and neither are their EFG% or their FG%. Thus, claiming that Kobe's shooting efficiency has been "identical" is false. As well, considering Jordan took more shots, and that efficiency decreases as volume increases, this is even more impressive.

This is a Kobe thread and he brought up Jordan just to put his efficiency into perspective. When people say "identical" they don't mean it LITERALLY right down to the .001 place, he said it was basically the same. Get over it and stop nitpicking at anything anyone says about Jordan

[Soothsayer]

This is a Kobe thread and he brought up Jordan just to put his efficiency into perspective. When people say "identical" they don't mean it LITERALLY right down to the .001 place, he said it was basically the same. Get over it and stop nitpicking at anything anyone says about Jordan

I understand. Yet considering Jordan averaged 25.6 shots per game over 91-93 playoffs and Kobe averaged 22.4 shots per game from 08-10 playoffs, Jordan's superiority in shooting efficiency is even more impressive, given that efficiency decreases as volume increases.

That said, Kobe has been great over these last 3 years, clearly.

[Fatal9]

Wipe Kobe's jizz off your chin first. Kobe these last 3 years has not been "basically the same" as Jordan from 91-93. Jordan was superior in every way, and FAR superior in many areas. PER reflects this chasm.
Don't get mad at REALITY, take it up with Kobe and tell him to play better.
I'm still waiting to see where I said that. I compared in a very specific category (scoring efficiency).


Compare their FG% on twos, their eFG% and TS%, they are basically the same (though MJ was better player, scored more points etc etc).

Again, you're reading what you want to read because you need an excuse to scream "MJ is GOAT!". I understand...it's like therapy for you, doing "PER" comparisons and all.

I mentioned specifically scoring efficiency in the playoffs in those three specific categories, while also mentioning in brackets that MJ scored more.

MJ's FG% on 2s in the first 3 peat: 50.9%
Kobe's FG% on 2s '08-'10: 50.0%

MJ's eFG% in the first 3 peat: 51.5%
Kobe's eFG% as '08-'10: 50.4%

MJ's TS% in first 3 peat: .575
Kobe's TS% '08-'10: .569

If you are going to ***** about a difference of 0.6-1% then I'm sorry, I was really off in my initial ball park estimate.

[Fatal9]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081218222937/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/a/a6/Gahh-sm.jpg/250px-Gahh-sm.jpg


"Difference of .006! Not identical!"

[Soothsayer]

I'm still waiting to see where I said that. I compared in a very specific category (scoring efficiency).



Again, you're reading what you want to read because you need an excuse to scream "MJ is GOAT!". I understand...it's like therapy for you, doing "PER" comparisons and all.

I mentioned specifically scoring efficiency in the playoffs in those three specific categories, while also mentioning in brackets that MJ scored more.

MJ's FG% on 2s in the first 3 peat: 50.9%
Kobe's FG% on 2s '08-'10: 50.0%

MJ's eFG% in the first 3 peat: 51.5%
Kobe's eFG% as '08-'10: 50.4%

MJ's TS% in first 3 peat: .575
Kobe's TS% '08-'10: .569

If you are going to ***** about a difference of 0.6-1% then I'm sorry, I was really off in my initial ball park estimate.


Fatal said, "That efficiency is identical to first three-peat playoff Jordan. Crazy"

You were wrong, as I've shown. This holds true for FG%, EFG% and TS%.

Jordan's superiority in shooting efficiency is even more impressive considering that he averaged 25.6 shots per game to Kobe's 22.4. As volume increases, effficiency decreases.

Once again, that said, Kobe has been great over the last 3 years.

[Soothsayer]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081218222937/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/a/a6/Gahh-sm.jpg/250px-Gahh-sm.jpg


"Difference of .006! Not identical!"

So in your world .569 is identical to .575. I hope you don't work in finance, engineering, or science.

If you meant, Kobe's shooting effficiency has been NEAR Jordan's yes, true. But considering Jordan's increased FGA volume, his superior shooting efficiency is even more impressive.

[Fatal9]

http://i46.tinypic.com/10shpv9.jpg

[Soothsayer]

http://i46.tinypic.com/10shpv9.jpg


Gotta admit, that's pretty funny. :cheers:

[OldSchoolBBall]

http://i46.tinypic.com/10shpv9.jpg

:roll:

[Jacks3]

Kobe more efficient than MJ from 96-98?

Kobe PER (player efficiency rating) for playoffs 08-10:
08: 25.0
09: 26.8
10: 24.7
Average: 25.5

Jordan PER for playoffs 96-98:
96: 26.7
97: 27.1
98: 28.1
Average: 27.3

So no, it's not accurate to say Kobe has been more efficient in the playoffs in the last 3 years than Jordan was in the playoffs from 96-98.

It is accurate to say Kobe's TS% has been higher, which is probably what you meant. But Kobe's BEST efficiency in the playoffs over the last 3 years was basically the same as Jordan's WORST in the playoffs from 96-98.
Yes,that's right. Kobe was more efficient. PER isn't really a measure of efficiency. As for Jordan's "worst" still being "basically the same" as Kobe's best, good for Jordan.:lol

[Batz]

http://i46.tinypic.com/10shpv9.jpg
:applause: :oldlol:

[Soothsayer]

Yes,that's right. Kobe was more efficient. PER isn't really a measure of efficiency. As for Jordan's "worst" still being "basically the same" as Kobe's best, good for Jordan.:lol

Wrong, PER, by definition, is a measure of statistical efficiency.
What YOU are referring to is strictly scoring efficiency, where Kobe has an argument.
But in terms of overall efficiency, as I have shown, Kobe was not more efficient than Jordan was in 96-98, and you have proferred no evidence to the contrary.

And once again, Jordan's "worst" PER, or player EFFICIENCY rating, over this span, is basically the same as Kobe's "best".

LMAO.

[laronprofit9]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Excellent Discussion

[Jacks3]

Wrong, PER, by definition, is a measure of statistical efficiency.
What YOU are referring to is strictly scoring efficiency, where Kobe has an argument.
But in terms of overall efficiency, as I have shown, Kobe was not more efficient than Jordan was in 96-98, and you have proferred no evidence to the contrary.

And once again, Jordan's "worst" PER, or player EFFICIENCY rating, over this span, is basically the same as Kobe's "best".

LMAO.
Okay,buddy.:cheers:

[laronprofit9]

Well I believe Kobe should have surgery to repair his both pink and index finger.

I believe healing is the best thing Kobe can do to improve his game now.

He's been playing with bad fingers for almost 3 years now.

The most noticeble area it affects him is his ball-handling.

I want to see what a full 100% Kobe can do in the playoffs.

He'll be 32 which is up there in NBA age, but if anybody can perform at a high level at that age its Kobe with his skill set.

[chopchop20]

Well I believe Kobe should have surgery to repair his both pink and index finger.

I believe healing is the best thing Kobe can do to improve his game now.

He's been playing with bad fingers for almost 3 years now.

The most noticeble area it affects him is his ball-handling.

I want to see what a full 100% Kobe can do in the playoffs.

He'll be 32 which is up there in NBA age, but if anybody can perform at a high level at that age its Kobe with his skill set.

I'm just hoping that his knee is the reason he doesn't have his lift anymore as opposed to age. Hopefully surgery will get him back to normal

[laronprofit9]

I'm just hoping that his knee is the reason he doesn't have his lift anymore as opposed to age. Hopefully surgery will get him back to normal

Ever since the knee drain, his knee hasn't been giving him problems. He just needs to rest that. His fingers need to be surgically repaired I believe.

[KINGS2002CHAMPS]

You're forgetting the MOST important stats. The NBA FINALS STATS.
Those stats you showed are padded by the SOFT Western Conference Defenses he faced.

[SuddenImpact09]

THat really is amazing. I like that new eFG% stat, I've never seen it before. Its down right godly.
:bowdown:

[Soothsayer]

THat really is amazing. I like that new eFG% stat, I've never seen it before. Its down right godly.
:bowdown:

Godly?

Kobe's 2008 EFG% of .514 was well above the playoff average of .484
His 2009 EFG% of .492 was actually below the league playoff average of .496
2010 Kobe's EFG% of .506 was slightly above the league playoff average of .496.

So "godly"? Nah. Very good? Sure.

[dynasty1978]

http://i46.tinypic.com/10shpv9.jpg

Just seeing this...classic :oldlol: :oldlol:

But seriously, Kobe's been damn impressive overall in the post-season sans Shaq. Not exactly Jordan-like, but who is? still impressive nonetheless.

[Soothsayer]

Just seeing this...classic :oldlol: :oldlol:

But seriously, Kobe's been damn impressive overall in the post-season sans Shaq. Not exactly Jordan-like, but who is? still impressive nonetheless.


Not sure if you are a Kobe fan, but this was a reasoned, measured response to Kobe's performance these last 3 years.

I agree, Kobe has been great.

[laronprofit9]

Also this should nullify any argument that Shaq made Kobe more efficient in the playoffs.

5 out of Kobe's Top 6 fg% in the playoffs come after his playing career with Shaq.

05-06: FG%: 50% TS%: 59% eFG%: 55% W/Out Shaq

07-08: FG%: 48% TS%: 58% eFG%: 51% W/Out Shaq

00-01: FG%: 47% TS%: 56% eFG%: 49% w/ Shaq

06-07: FG%: 46% TS%: 56% eFG%: 50% W/Out Shaq

09-10: FG%: 46% TS%: 57% eFG%: 51% W/Out Shaq

08-09: FG%: 46% TS%: 56% eFG%: 49% W/Out Shaq

The only season where Kobe had comparable efficiency to his post-Shaq playoff runs was in 00-01.

I give full-credit to Shaq for helping Kobe with his first 3 rings. He was the most dominant player in the league, and had a top 3 peak of all time imo. He was the man, and he deserved all 3 Finals MVP awards. He was the best player in the league easily during that stretch. No one was even close. Kobe was option #2. He was not 1b as many people want to say. The early 00's 3-peat Lakers was clearly Shaq's Team.

With that said, people who always debated why Kobe's fg% was always a bit higher than say AI was due to playing with Shaq. However that is not the case, his best fg% as a player came after Shaq. Also to note his best ever was without Shaq or Gasol. His 1st and 4th best efficiency seasons were without Shaq or Gasol.

Kobe without Shaq is a consistent TS% of 56% in the playoffs. Which is very good for a perimeter player. Considering the majority of his offense post-Shaq has been on mostly Jumpers.

[Jacks3]

What's impressive is that he's beaten 10 50+ win teams over that stretch. :eek:

[laronprofit9]

Also this should nullify any argument that Shaq made Kobe more efficient in the playoffs.

5 out of Kobe's Top 6 fg% in the playoffs come after his playing career with Shaq.

05-06: FG%: 50% TS%: 59% eFG%: 55% W/Out Shaq

07-08: FG%: 48% TS%: 58% eFG%: 51% W/Out Shaq

00-01: FG%: 47% TS%: 56% eFG%: 49% w/ Shaq

06-07: FG%: 46% TS%: 56% eFG%: 50% W/Out Shaq

09-10: FG%: 46% TS%: 57% eFG%: 51% W/Out Shaq

08-09: FG%: 46% TS%: 56% eFG%: 49% W/Out Shaq

The only season where Kobe had comparable efficiency to his post-Shaq playoff runs was in 00-01.

I give full-credit to Shaq for helping Kobe with his first 3 rings. He was the most dominant player in the league, and had a top 3 peak of all time imo. He was the man, and he deserved all 3 Finals MVP awards. He was the best player in the league easily during that stretch. No one was even close. Kobe was option #2. He was not 1b as many people want to say. The early 00's 3-peat Lakers was clearly Shaq's Team.

With that said, people who always debated why Kobe's fg% was always a bit higher than say AI was due to playing with Shaq. However that is not the case, his best fg% as a player came after Shaq. Also to note his best ever was without Shaq or Gasol. His 1st and 4th best efficiency seasons were without Shaq or Gasol.

Kobe without Shaq is a consistent TS% of 56% in the playoffs. Which is very good for a perimeter player. Considering the majority of his offense post-Shaq has been on mostly Jumpers.

I think I can say this:

Kobe Bryant with Shaq actually lowered his level of play from the regular season to the playoffs. I think mainly due to Shaq demanding the ball even more during the playoffs.

Kobe Bryant without Shaq has raised his level of play from the regular season to the playoffs. Since Kobe is the main option of the team, he demands the ball a lot more during the playoffs as opposed to the regular season.

The only outliers is the 00-01 and 05-06 seasons.

I think this proves that if their is a question of who is the lead dog of the team during that early 3-peat, their playoff stats should be better than their regular seasons stats.

Shaq 00-02. Kobe 08-10.

Shaq was #1 not Kobe back then.

Kobe is #1 not Gasol right now.

This isn't the case for everything, but for these current Lakers and early 3-peat lakers it is.

[laronprofit9]

What's impressive is that he's beaten 10 50+ win teams over that stretch. :eek:

Thats taking advantage of homecourt advantage.

[laronprofit9]

Thats taking advantage of homecourt advantage.

:applause:

[SuddenImpact09]

Godly?

Kobe's 2008 EFG% of .514 was well above the playoff average of .484
His 2009 EFG% of .492 was actually below the league playoff average of .496
2010 Kobe's EFG% of .506 was slightly above the league playoff average of .496.

So "godly"? Nah. Very good? Sure.

Didnt know that and you have a valid point. I just find it down right insane because people game plan strictly to stop Kobe just like they did Jordan and very few teams even in the playoffs with an average of about 6 games to gameplan still cant stop someone.

[laronprofit9]

Didnt know that and you have a valid point. I just find it down right insane because people game plan strictly to stop Kobe just like they did Jordan and very few teams even in the playoffs with an average of about 6 games to gameplan still cant stop someone.

For perimeter player he was very good.

Kobe being able to maintain a fairly high efficiency with the type of shots he takes is remarkable.

If Kobe had Rip-Hamilton type Shot selection, he'd easily be a 50% fg shooter. and probably a TS% around 60%.

He just takes too many wtf shots to let that happen, but still makes quite a few of them despite that. If any other player in the league took the shots Kobe took, they'd definitely have a lower fg% than Kobe. Kobe makes more ridiculous shots than any player should. Problem he needs to stop taking those shots, and make it easier for him.

[macpierce]

when you're an offensive player, you wont always get good looks, if you want to score around 30, some shots you take are tough shots

[ShaqAttack3234]

Also this should nullify any argument that Shaq made Kobe more efficient in the playoffs.

5 out of Kobe's Top 6 fg% in the playoffs come after his playing career with Shaq.

05-06: FG%: 50% TS%: 59% eFG%: 55% W/Out Shaq

07-08: FG%: 48% TS%: 58% eFG%: 51% W/Out Shaq

00-01: FG%: 47% TS%: 56% eFG%: 49% w/ Shaq

06-07: FG%: 46% TS%: 56% eFG%: 50% W/Out Shaq

09-10: FG%: 46% TS%: 57% eFG%: 51% W/Out Shaq

08-09: FG%: 46% TS%: 56% eFG%: 49% W/Out Shaq

The only season where Kobe had comparable efficiency to his post-Shaq playoff runs was in 00-01.

I give full-credit to Shaq for helping Kobe with his first 3 rings. He was the most dominant player in the league, and had a top 3 peak of all time imo. He was the man, and he deserved all 3 Finals MVP awards. He was the best player in the league easily during that stretch. No one was even close. Kobe was option #2. He was not 1b as many people want to say. The early 00's 3-peat Lakers was clearly Shaq's Team.

With that said, people who always debated why Kobe's fg% was always a bit higher than say AI was due to playing with Shaq. However that is not the case, his best fg% as a player came after Shaq. Also to note his best ever was without Shaq or Gasol. His 1st and 4th best efficiency seasons were without Shaq or Gasol.

Kobe without Shaq is a consistent TS% of 56% in the playoffs. Which is very good for a perimeter player. Considering the majority of his offense post-Shaq has been on mostly Jumpers.

:applause: Some great posts, I just wish more would be consistent. Some Kobe haters penalize Kobe for being number 2 during the Lakers 3peat yet somehow try to prop up Gasol as being as good as Kobe or close.

I mean after 2000, while Kobe was still number 2 on the team, unlike Gasol, he already had a legit argument for being a top 5 player in the entire league. Gasol isn't anywhere near the discussion for top 5. Hell, Kobe was probably the second best player in the entire 2001 playoffs behind Shaq.

Though I disagree with nobody being close to Shaq during that time. I'd agree as far as 2000 and 2001, but by 2002, Duncan was close.

And Kobe's efficiency increasing IMO, is more because he's added to his game. His footwork has become amazing and is light years ahead of where it was during the 3peat, his post game has improved and he's become a much better 3 point shooter, he really wasn't much of a 3 point shooter during the 3peat. He already had a great mid-range game and a good post game for a guard and he attacked the basket a lot, but he really added the 3 point shot in 2003 and started taking a lot more post-Shaq.

Here are Kobe's FG%, TS% and eFG% from 2000-2004

Regular Season
2000- 46.8 FG%, 54.6 TS%, 48.8 eFG%
2001- 46.4 FG%, 55.2 TS%, 48.4 eFG%
2002- 46.9 FG%, 54.4 TS%, 47.9 eFG%
2003- 45.1 FG%, 55 TS%, 48.3 eFG%
2004- 43.8 FG%, 55.1 TS%, 46.8 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 44.2 FG%, 51.7 TS%, 47 eFG%
2001- 46.9 FG%, 55.5 TS%, 48.5 eFG%
2002- 43.4 FG%, 51.1 TS%, 45.9 eFG%
2003- 43.2 FG%, 53.1 TS%, 47.2 eFG%
2004- 41.3 FG%, 50.6 TS%, 43.9 eFG%

Compare those to the other star perimeter players of the same era.

Iverson
Regular Season
2000- 42.1 FG%, 49.6 TS%, 44.6 eFG%
2001- 40 FG%, 51.8 TS%, 44.7 eFG%
2002- 39.8 FG%, 48.9 TS%, 42.2 eFG%
2003- 41.4 FG%, 50 TS%, 43.6 eFG%
2004- 38.7 FG%, 47.8 TS%, 41.2 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 38.4 FG%, 47.2 TS%, 40.9 eFG%
2001- 38.9 FG%, 48 TS%, 42.5 eFG%
2002- 38.1 FG%, 51.5 TS%, 41.9 eFG%
2003- 41.6 FG%, 49.9 TS%, 44.5 eFG%

McGrady
Regular Season
2000- 45.1 FG%, 50.9 TS%, 46 eFG%
2001- 45.7 FG%, 52.1 TS%, 47.4 eFG%
2002- 45.1 FG%, 53.2 TS%, 48.3 eFG%
2003- 45.7 FG%, 56.4 TS%, 50.5 eFG%
2004- 41.7 FG%, 52.6 TS%, 47.3 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 38.6 FG%, 49 TS%, 40.9 eFG%
2001- 41.5 FG%, 48.3 TS%, 42.3 eFG%
2002- 46.2 FG%, 55.3 TS%, 48.9 eFG%
2003- 44.8 FG%, 56.1 TS%, 49.7 TS%

Carter
Regular Season
2000- 46.5 FG%, 54.3 TS%, 49.3 eFG%
2001- 46 FG%, 55.1 TS%, 50.9 eFG%
2002- 42.8 FG%, 51.5 TS%, 47.3 eFG%
2003- 46.7 FG%, 53.2 TS%, 49.7 eFG%
2004- 41.7 FG%, 50.1 TS%, 44.9 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 30 FG%, 45.6 TS%, 31.0 eFG%
2001- 43.6 FG%, 52.3 TS%, 48 eFG%

Pierce
Regular Season
2000- 44.2 FG%, 55 TS%, 48.6 eFG%
2001- 45.4 FG%, 56.3 TS%, 50.3 eFG%
2002- 44.2 FG%, 57 TS%, 50.8 eFG%
2003- 41.6 FG%, 53.2 TS%, 45.4 eFG%
2004- 40.2 FG%, 51.7 TS%, 44.1 eFG%

Playoffs
2002- 40.3 FG%, 52.9 TS%, 45.2 eFG%
2003- 39.9 FG%, 55.4 TS%, 44 eFG%
2004- 34.2 FG%, 46.3 TS%, 37.5 eFG%

Ray Allen
Regular Season
2000- 45.5 FG%, 57 TS%, 51.6 eFG%
2001- 48 FG%, 61 TS%, 55.7 eFG%
2002- 46.2 FG%, 59.8 TS%, 56.1 eFG%
2003- 43.9 FG%, 56.5 TS%, 51.2 eFG%
2004- 44 FG%, 56.6 TS%, 51.2 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 44.4 FG%, 55.2 TS%, 50 eFG%
2001- 47.7 FG%, 61.3 TS%, 56.3 eFG%

Kobe was very efficient during the 2001 playoffs considering his position and the volume of shots he took. Granted, he wasn't efficient during the other playoff runs, but not terrible either.

The only real complaint about Kobe in those years was at times he took an unnecessary amount of shots given the coach's game plan. During the 3peat, that was only a problem earlier in the 2000-2001 season, but that problem did occur again in the 2003 series vs San Antonio and particularly 2004 vs Detroit.

But as far as efficiency? The only elite perimeter player who was consistently a more efficient scorer than Kobe during that time was Ray Allen and aside from a couple of seasons, Kobe was consistently more efficient than Carter or T-Mac. Pretty similar to Pierce on average and MUCH more efficient than Iverson.

[laronprofit9]

:applause: Some great posts, I just wish more would be consistent. Some Kobe haters penalize Kobe for being number 2 during the Lakers 3peat yet somehow try to prop up Gasol as being as good as Kobe or close.

I mean after 2000, while Kobe was still number 2 on the team, unlike Gasol, he already had a legit argument for being a top 5 player in the entire league. Gasol isn't anywhere near the discussion for top 5. Hell, Kobe was probably the second best player in the entire 2001 playoffs behind Shaq.

Though I disagree with nobody being close to Shaq during that time. I'd agree as far as 2000 and 2001, but by 2002, Duncan was close.

And Kobe's efficiency increasing IMO, is more because he's added to his game. His footwork has become amazing and is light years ahead of where it was during the 3peat, his post game has improved and he's become a much better 3 point shooter, he really wasn't much of a 3 point shooter during the 3peat. He already had a great mid-range game and a good post game for a guard and he attacked the basket a lot, but he really added the 3 point shot in 2003 and started taking a lot more post-Shaq.

Here are Kobe's FG%, TS% and eFG% from 2000-2004

Regular Season
2000- 46.8 FG%, 54.6 TS%, 48.8 eFG%
2001- 46.4 FG%, 55.2 TS%, 48.4 eFG%
2002- 46.9 FG%, 54.4 TS%, 47.9 eFG%
2003- 45.1 FG%, 55 TS%, 48.3 eFG%
2004- 43.8 FG%, 55.1 TS%, 46.8 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 44.2 FG%, 51.7 TS%, 47 eFG%
2001- 46.9 FG%, 55.5 TS%, 48.5 eFG%
2002- 43.4 FG%, 51.1 TS%, 45.9 eFG%
2003- 43.2 FG%, 53.1 TS%, 47.2 eFG%
2004- 41.3 FG%, 50.6 TS%, 43.9 eFG%

Compare those to the other star perimeter players of the same era.

Iverson
Regular Season
2000- 42.1 FG%, 49.6 TS%, 44.6 eFG%
2001- 40 FG%, 51.8 TS%, 44.7 eFG%
2002- 39.8 FG%, 48.9 TS%, 42.2 eFG%
2003- 41.4 FG%, 50 TS%, 43.6 eFG%
2004- 38.7 FG%, 47.8 TS%, 41.2 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 38.4 FG%, 47.2 TS%, 40.9 eFG%
2001- 38.9 FG%, 48 TS%, 42.5 eFG%
2002- 38.1 FG%, 51.5 TS%, 41.9 eFG%
2003- 41.6 FG%, 49.9 TS%, 44.5 eFG%

McGrady
Regular Season
2000- 45.1 FG%, 50.9 TS%, 46 eFG%
2001- 45.7 FG%, 52.1 TS%, 47.4 eFG%
2002- 45.1 FG%, 53.2 TS%, 48.3 eFG%
2003- 45.7 FG%, 56.4 TS%, 50.5 eFG%
2004- 41.7 FG%, 52.6 TS%, 47.3 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 38.6 FG%, 49 TS%, 40.9 eFG%
2001- 41.5 FG%, 48.3 TS%, 42.3 eFG%
2002- 46.2 FG%, 55.3 TS%, 48.9 eFG%
2003- 44.8 FG%, 56.1 TS%, 49.7 TS%

Carter
Regular Season
2000- 46.5 FG%, 54.3 TS%, 49.3 eFG%
2001- 46 FG%, 55.1 TS%, 50.9 eFG%
2002- 42.8 FG%, 51.5 TS%, 47.3 eFG%
2003- 46.7 FG%, 53.2 TS%, 49.7 eFG%
2004- 41.7 FG%, 50.1 TS%, 44.9 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 30 FG%, 45.6 TS%, 31.0 eFG%
2001- 43.6 FG%, 52.3 TS%, 48 eFG%

Pierce
Regular Season
2000- 44.2 FG%, 55 TS%, 48.6 eFG%
2001- 45.4 FG%, 56.3 TS%, 50.3 eFG%
2002- 44.2 FG%, 57 TS%, 50.8 eFG%
2003- 41.6 FG%, 53.2 TS%, 45.4 eFG%
2004- 40.2 FG%, 51.7 TS%, 44.1 eFG%

Playoffs
2002- 40.3 FG%, 52.9 TS%, 45.2 eFG%
2003- 39.9 FG%, 55.4 TS%, 44 eFG%
2004- 34.2 FG%, 46.3 TS%, 37.5 eFG%

Ray Allen
Regular Season
2000- 45.5 FG%, 57 TS%, 51.6 eFG%
2001- 48 FG%, 61 TS%, 55.7 eFG%
2002- 46.2 FG%, 59.8 TS%, 56.1 eFG%
2003- 43.9 FG%, 56.5 TS%, 51.2 eFG%
2004- 44 FG%, 56.6 TS%, 51.2 eFG%

Playoffs
2000- 44.4 FG%, 55.2 TS%, 50 eFG%
2001- 47.7 FG%, 61.3 TS%, 56.3 eFG%

Kobe was very efficient during the 2001 playoffs considering his position and the volume of shots he took. Granted, he wasn't efficient during the other playoff runs, but not terrible either.

The only real complaint about Kobe in those years was at times he took an unnecessary amount of shots given the coach's game plan. During the 3peat, that was only a problem earlier in the 2000-2001 season, but that problem did occur again in the 2003 series vs San Antonio and particularly 2004 vs Detroit.

But as far as efficiency? The only elite perimeter player who was consistently a more efficient scorer than Kobe during that time was Ray Allen and aside from a couple of seasons, Kobe was consistently more efficient than Carter or T-Mac. Pretty similar to Pierce on average and MUCH more efficient than Iverson.

I do credit Kobe's improvement as a player to helping him maintain his efficiency.

But young Kobe was able to get to the basket much much easier than now. And getting to the rack helps your fg%. Kobe now is strictly a post player, and mid-range game player. He drives sparingly.

02-03 was the season where Kobe bulked up a lot I remember. That increased strength helped him shoot 3 pointers like freethrows. Not as efficiently, but in terms of his shooting form. This dramatically increased Kobe's efficiency from outside while also allowing him to make more. 02-03 was Kobe's physical prime, he was never faster, stronger, bigger, quicker, jump higher, or as athletic.

Kobe before 02-03 still had a great mid-range jumper, and probably the best post-up game at his position. Can't think of any shooting guard who had better.

[laronprofit9]

I do credit Kobe's improvement as a player to helping him maintain his efficiency.

But young Kobe was able to get to the basket much much easier than now. And getting to the rack helps your fg%. Kobe now is strictly a post player, and mid-range game player. He drives sparingly.

02-03 was the season where Kobe bulked up a lot I remember. That increased strength helped him shoot 3 pointers like freethrows. Not as efficiently, but in terms of his shooting form. This dramatically increased Kobe's efficiency from outside while also allowing him to make more. 02-03 was Kobe's physical prime, he was never faster, stronger, bigger, quicker, jump higher, or as athletic.

Kobe before 02-03 still had a great mid-range jumper, and probably the best post-up game at his position. Can't think of any shooting guard who had better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vcC5vg-1Mc

^ Kobe's physical peak

05-06 = Kobe's skill peak.

08-10 Kobe's Leadership peak.