LeBron James vs Oscar Robertson All-Time

[ImmortalD24]

http://i50.tinypic.com/26237th.jpg

What does LeBron have to do to pass Oscar Robertson in the All-Time rankings? Does he even need to win a ring seeing that Big O never won a ring as the main man?

Discuss.

PS: Big O could easily pass off as a relative of the great Eric Snow

[Lebron23]

Win an NBA title as the number one option of his team. Oscar only won 1 NBA title as the 2nd scoring option of the 1970's Milwaukee Bucks. LeBron is 25 yr.old. Hopefully he wins his first NBA title with his new team (Bulls or Knicks) next season.

[mamba24]

Win an NBA title as the number one option of his team. Oscar only won 1 NBA title as the 2nd scoring option of the 1970's Milwaukee Bucks. LeBron is 25 yr.old. Hopefully he wins his first NBA title with his new team (Bulls or Knicks) next season.

Lol you gotta be kidding so your a lebron fan and not a team fan?

[Lebron23]

Lol you gotta be kidding so your a lebron fan and not a team fan?


He won't win an NBA title if he resign with the Cavs. Who's gonna coach the Cavs next season?

Bulls and Knicks are legendary franchises.

[Yung D-Will]

Lol is this thread serious

Oscar by far

[Lebron23]

Oscar Robertson wasted his prime with the Ronchester Royasl. He's a triple double machine, but look at his teams regular season and playoffs record. LeBron and his team had more winning seasons than the Big 0.

[Yung D-Will]

Oscar Robertson wasted his prime with the Ronchester Royal. His a triple double machine, but look at his team regular season and playoffs record. LeBron and his team had more winning seasons than the Big 0.


0 finals wins is where the comparison starts and ends.

[Lebron23]

0 finals wins is where the comparison starts and ends.


LeBron is 25 yrs.old.He would win more NBA title than Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Deron Williams, and Carlos Loser at the end of his NBA Career.


Oscar played with a young Kareem Abdl Jabbar. Jabbar carried his team in the NBA Finals.

That's why LeBron would sign with another NBA Team because he don't want to follow in the footsteps of Karl Malone and John Stockton.

[PHILA]

Ronchester Royasl
Big O played in Cincinnati.

[Niquesports]

He won't win an NBA title if he resign with the Cavs. Who's gonna coach the Cavs next season?

Bulls and Knicks are legendary franchises.
I don't understand why he or anyone thinks he should go to the bulls or knicks.
He go to the bulls he will always play in the shadow of mj he's not winning 6 titles . The knicks are worst than the Cavs why would he want to start over? It doesn't make sence to me.

[Clifton]

What does LeBron have to do to pass Oscar Robertson in the All-Time rankings?
Retire.

[Lebron23]

I don't understand why he or anyone thinks he should go to the bulls or knicks.
He go to the bulls he will always play in the shadow of mj he's not winning 6 titles . The knicks are worst than the Cavs why would he want to start over? It doesn't make sence to me.


The Bulls have Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, and top 15 pick in the 2010 NBA Draft.

He just needs to win 2 NBA Finals MVP, and he would be regarded as a top 10 player of all time.

Chicago is the 3rd winningest team in NBA History. Love to see them win an NBA title in this decade. Rose has already proven that he's a better playoffs performer than Mo Williams.

Tom Thibbediu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Future Cavaliers Head Coach and Mike Brown.

[hotsizzle]

I thought Lebron23 was a Cavs fan first?

[ImmortalD24]

He probably is a Cavs fan, but I think he's more into the Jordan vs LeBron hype.. he knows that if LeBron doesn't at least win one NBA championship within the next 2 years that the comparison would start to fade rather quickly.

LeBron is turning 26 in December, two more seasons puts him at 28 and the likelihood of LeBron surpassing would be all but gone to basketball fans.

[Duncan21formvp]

About 4-5 Years in the NBA more without winning anything.

[Claude9]

match the feat of the Big O of averaging a triple double for the season and perhaps more on.

[Batz]

Win the damn championship as the man. Why do people ask these questions which have such an obvious answer?

[L.Kizzle]

Bron has o worry about passing Elgin Baylor first.

[Fatal9]

Lebron has put up better stats than Oscar and has already accomplished more as the leader of a team than Oscar ever did. Lebron > Oscar.

[jlauber]

Lebron MAY very well pass Oscar. Lebron came into the league at age 19, while Oscar had to wait until age 22. I am not sure how Robertson would have fared at age 19, in which Lebron averaged 20.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, and shot .417 from the field. In Oscar's rookie year, he averaged 30.5 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 9.7 apg, and shot .473. Lebron, at the same age, averaged 27.3 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 6.0 apg, and shot .476.

So, we can make an assumption that Oscar probably could have put three more quality seasons had he entered the NBA at age 19. The Big-O played a total of 14 seasons, although in his last three seasons he had a big dip (although he did play on a title team in one of them.) In his 14 seasons, he led the NBA in assists per game, SEVEN times. He had SIX seasons of over 30 ppg. He had TEN seasons over 24 ppg. He had THREE seasons over 10+ rpg (and two others at 9 or more.) His CAREER FG% was .485 in an era of well below that (including THREE over 50%.) Obviously he averaged a triple-double one season, but he nearly had THREE more. He was a 12 time All-Star. He won a MVP (in the Russell-Wilt era), and was voted top-5 NINE times. He had THREE All-Star game MVPs. He was a NINE-time 1st team All-NBA (and second team two other times.) He had several outstanding post-seasons, but, in the same year in which he averaged a triple-double during the regular season, he averaged one in the post-season, as well (28.8 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 11.0 apg...and shot .519 from the field.) The list goes on and on. Oh, BTW, he DID play on one title team.

Lebron has played in seven seasons. True, most of them have been outstanding. But let's not get carried away just yet. If he puts up several more exceptional seasons, then we can start the comparisons. As of right now...no way.

[illLakerslli]

Oscar Robertson played in the weakest NBA league....... He would probably average half of what he did back in the day.

[ShaqAttack3234]

JLauber spams the board with his typical crap citing stats without putting them in perspective. :roll: at comparing Lebron and Oscar's rookie numbers, right, like Lebron playing on a team that averaged what? 91 possessions per game in his rookie season while Oscar's team averaged probably about 125 possessions didn't have a major impact on their numbers?

When Oscar's numbers are put in perspective they're not THAT amazing and honestly, I don't see what makes him clearly better than guys like Barkley, Malone and Garnett.

Lebron already has 2 MVPs, a scoring titles, some of the most ridiculous stats ever and he has probably 3 or so more prime years left at least barring injuries. If Lebron just keeps doing what he's doing for a few more years it'd be very tough to rank him below Oscar. For all of the crap Lebron takes and some of it he does deserve just like every player deserves criticism, he's already an all time great.

The biggest argument for players like Robertson and Baylor over Lebron is the impact they had on the development of the game.

[PowerGlove]

Keywords in this thread:Pace,overrated,rings,era.

[Lebron23]

I even ranked Allen Iverson over Oscar Robertson. AI led his team in the NBA Finals as the number 1 scoring option of his team.

[jlauber]

Oscar Robertson played in the weakest NBA league....... He would probably average half of what he did back in the day.

I know. There is no doubt that today's players are much better. In fact, put MJ, say in his 1991 season...some 20 years ago...into 2010, and I think he might be a 15-18 ppg player on about .430 shooting.

And I get a kick out anyone thinking that Shaq, of 2000, could outplay the players of today. Can you imagine Brook Lopez cleaning the floor with that fat a$$. And don't get me started on Olajuwon. There are high school kids today that would crush a '95 Hakeem.

Magic and Bird??? C'mon now! Those two clowns couldn't make their college team's of today.

Kareem? Does anyone honestly believe that Abdul-Jabbar, in his prime, could score at all against guys like Okur, Biedrins, and Kaman?

And surely, what would a prime Wilt, at over 7-1, and around 285 lbs, with around a 500 lb bench and a champion high-jumper leaping ability, combined with sprinter's speed be able to do against Jason Collins, Joaquim Noah?

[illLakerslli]

I know. There is no doubt that today's players are much better. In fact, put MJ, say in his 1991 season...some 20 years ago...into 2010, and I think he might be a 15-18 ppg player on about .430 shooting.

And I get a kick out anyone thinking that Shaq, of 2000, could outplay the players of today. Can you imagine Brook Lopez cleaning the floor with that fat a$$. And don't get me started on Olajuwon. There are high school kids today that would crush a '95 Hakeem.

Magic and Bird??? C'mon now! Those two clowns couldn't make their college team's of today.

Kareem? Does anyone honestly believe that Abdul-Jabbar, in his prime, could score at all against guys like Okur, Biedrins, and Kaman?

And surely, what would a prime Wilt, at over 7-1, and around 285 lbs, with around a 500 lb bench and a champion high-jumper leaping ability, combined with sprinter's speed be able to do against Jason Collins, Joaquim Noah?

I think the defence is better today but Shaq would literally shit on any of the players in this age. Robertson played in the 60's arguably the weakest age in the game.

[jlauber]

I think the defence is better today but Shaq would literally shit on any of the players in this age. Robertson played in the 60's arguably the weakest age in the game.

Who are you kidding? Shaq is the exact player today, that he was ten years ago. It is just that the rest of the NBA has gotten so much better in the last decade, just as the players of the 00's were better than those of the 90's; and the 90's better than the 80's, and so and so...

Can you imagine how comical it would be to watch Jordan helplessly watching Rondo and Mayo schooling him, one-on-one???

[jlauber]

I get a kick out of comparing players of different eras...

Does anyone think that Kareem would have stood a chance against Hakeem? And Hakeem against Shaq? And obviously, Shaq wouldn't stand a prayer against Howard.

[magnax1]

He has to become a top ten player

[Roundball_Rock]

I even ranked Allen Iverson over Oscar Robertson. AI led his team in the NBA Finals as the number 1 scoring option of his team.

Only in the basketball world, or at least ISH, is winning considered losing. Losing in the NBA finals as "the man">>>>>>winning the NBA finals as a necessary "sidekick" like Oscar did. Then people wonder why superstar pairings are so rare, other than in cases where one was drafted (Kareem-Magic, Jordan-Pippen, Shaq-Penny, Shaq-Kobe). Why should a Bosh or Wade team with Lebron when all the credit would go to Lebron?

[Psileas]

I even ranked Allen Iverson over Oscar Robertson. AI led his team in the NBA Finals as the number 1 scoring option of his team.

Then I guess you also rank Willis Reed above Oscar.

[alexandreben]

The pace in the 60's was much higher than 00's, it's true, the pace also has more impact especially to the outside shooters than centers, also true.. one thing need to consider, the rules e.g. Hand-Checking, the defense quality in 00's is much weaker than Oscar's era.

LeBron will surpass Oscar in the very next few years without any doubt, but to me, they all lack of something, just like Jerry West said, the "killer instinct", the eye of the tiger.

For those who keep saying the 60's was the weakest era in the NBA history, what's your arguments?

[asdf1990]

white midgets played in the 60's.

[alexandreben]

white midgets played in the 60's.
Well, if so, black midgets played in the 90's too, Charls Barkley, Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace, etc.

[Simple Jack]

I know. There is no doubt that today's players are much better. In fact, put MJ, say in his 1991 season...some 20 years ago...into 2010, and I think he might be a 15-18 ppg player on about .430 shooting.

And I get a kick out anyone thinking that Shaq, of 2000, could outplay the players of today. Can you imagine Brook Lopez cleaning the floor with that fat a$$. And don't get me started on Olajuwon. There are high school kids today that would crush a '95 Hakeem.

Magic and Bird??? C'mon now! Those two clowns couldn't make their college team's of today.

Kareem? Does anyone honestly believe that Abdul-Jabbar, in his prime, could score at all against guys like Okur, Biedrins, and Kaman?

And surely, what would a prime Wilt, at over 7-1, and around 285 lbs, with around a 500 lb bench and a champion high-jumper leaping ability, combined with sprinter's speed be able to do against Jason Collins, Joaquim Noah?

You are an absolute idiot if you think those players could average those numbers today. Spencer Haywood is a better rebounder than nearly anyone we've seen in the past decade? Mel Daniels? Billy Cunningham? George McGinnis?

You are a clown.

[Fatal9]

the defense quality in 00's is much weaker than Oscar's era.
:roll:

[PaperClip]

You are an absolute idiot if you think those players could average those numbers today. Spencer Haywood is a better rebounder than nearly anyone we've seen in the past decade? Mel Daniels? Billy Cunningham? George McGinnis?

You are a clown.

:oldlol:

You fell for it.

[The Iron Fist]

He won't win an NBA title if he resign with the Cavs. Who's gonna coach the Cavs next season?

Bulls and Knicks are legendary franchises.


lol,

no, they're not.

[Simple Jack]

:oldlol:

You fell for it.


No. Lauber actually believes his own Wilt/60's and 70's BS.

[jlauber]

The pace in the 60's was much higher than 00's, it's true, the pace also has more impact especially to the outside shooters than centers, also true.. one thing need to consider, the rules e.g. Hand-Checking, the defense quality in 00's is much weaker than Oscar's era.

LeBron will surpass Oscar in the very next few years without any doubt, but to me, they all lack of something, just like Jerry West said, the "killer instinct", the eye of the tiger.

For those who keep saying the 60's was the weakest era in the NBA history, what's your arguments?

While Fatal9 is :roll: ...obviously because he doesn't buy your theory of better defense in the 60's,...

how about these FACTS?

Kareem joined the NBA in 69-70. His most statistically dominating season's were very early in his career. In 70-71 he averaged 31.7 ppg on .577 shooting. In 71-72, he averaged 34.8 ppg on .574 shooting. And in the 72-73 season, he averaged 30.2 ppg on .554 shooting. Those are, quite simply, his three best seasons, EVER (especially if you factor in his rebounding numbers.)

Ok, so in the 70-71 playoffs, he shot .486 against Thurmond, and .481 against Wilt. In the 71-72 playoffs, Kareem shot .405 against Thurmond, and .457 against Wilt (however, in the last four games of that six game series, Kareem only shot .414.) In the 72-73 playoffs, Kareem shot .428 against Thurmond. And, in that last season, in six regular season games, Kareem shot .450 against Wilt. In fact, against Wilt, in his 28 CAREER games against Chamberlain, Kareem shot .464 (and his CAREER FG% is .559 BTW.) Incidently in their last 10 H2H meetings, Kareem only shot .434 against Wilt. AND, keep in mind that both Thurmond an Wilt were well past their peaks (Wilt retired after the 72-73 season.) Fortunately for Kareem, he did not have to face Russell, or a PRIME Thurmond or a PRIME Wilt.

Not only that but take look at Kareem, in the 70's, and in his PRIME. He had seasons of .518, .539, .529, and 513. His BEST season was in 76-77 (and long after Wilt and Thurmond retired) with a .579 FG%.

Now, take a look at Kareem, in the 80's, and nowhere near the physical force he was in the 70's. His rebounding numbers were AWFUL in the 80's. In fact, he had seasons in which Magic Johnson rebounded better (and in the EARLY 80's BTW.) STILL, aside from Kareem's last two years, at age 40 and 41, he shot .564, or BETTER in EIGHT seasons of the 80's. He had his HIGH season of .604 in the 80's, as well as .599 (at age 37), .588, and .579.

Fatal9 has kindly posted a three game stretch, in the 85-86 season, in which Kareem averaged 42 ppg against HAKEEM. Not only that, but in Abdul-Jabbar's LAST three seasons, at ages 39, 40, and 41, he shot a COMBINED .567 against Olajuwon in their 13 meetings.

Now...you tell me if the players of the 60's could not play defense!

[Samurai Swoosh]

Lol you gotta be kidding so your a lebron fan and not a team fan?
Get off your high horse ... who are you tell a fan who and what he can be a fan of when it comes to basketball.

[jlauber]

You are an absolute idiot if you think those players could average those numbers today. Spencer Haywood is a better rebounder than nearly anyone we've seen in the past decade? Mel Daniels? Billy Cunningham? George McGinnis?

You are a clown.

Just what the hell is this about? I don't think I have EVER mentioned those three players in terms of rebounding. But, let's examine them anyway. Haywood did have one season, in the ABA, in which he averaged 19.5 rpg. BUT, that was the ABA...and NOT the NBA, where the QUALITY centers played at the time. His BEST season in the NBA was at 13.4 rpg, in 73-74, ...in a league tha averaged 48 rpg per team. Compare that with the 09-10 in which the average NBA team grabbed 42. He also had three other seasons over 12 rpg. Yes, he was "only" 6-8, but don't feed me that crap about height. Who was the best rebounder in the 90's...yes, 6-8 Rodman. Even in the 00's we had 6-7 Ben Wallace leading the league twice. Incidently, Haywood averaged 22.1 and 21.5 rpg in college (and led the nation in his last year BTW.) What does all of that tell you??? IMHO, Haywood would average about 10-11 rpg in TODAY's NBA.

Billy Cunningham? He had an NBA CAREER rebound average of 10.1 rpg. His BEST season was in the 69-70 season, in which he averaged 13.6 rpg...which was in a league that averaged about 49 (I won't take the time to remove the team rebounds, but it would have dropped them down from the 53 rpg that was recorded, to around that level.) Now, Cunningham was a pretty good athlete, and was called "the Kangaroo Kid." IMHO, Cunningham would average about 9-10 rpg in today's NBA.

McGinnis? He didn't join the NBA until the 75-76 season, and averaged 9.8 rpg in his seven year NBA career. There is not much you can say here...maybe an 8 rpg guy in today's NBA?

Now, if you want to argue what the GREAT rebounders of the 60's and 70's would do in TODAY's era...Russell, Thurmond, Lucas, and Wilt....using basic math, anywhere from 15-18 (or possibly more in Wilt's case.) And, ALL four of them, at their peaks, would lead TODAY's NBA.

[Blazed22]

I even ranked Allen Iverson over Oscar Robertson. AI led his team in the NBA Finals as the number 1 scoring option of his team.
:roll:

Ok sorry Lebron fans, but he's not greater than Oscar. At least not yet. Oscar is a Top 15 player of all-time, I'm sure there are people out there that could list at least 20 players greater than LeBron.

[jlauber]

:roll:

Ok sorry Lebron fans, but he's not greater than Oscar. At least not yet. Oscar is a Top 15 player of all-time, I'm sure there are people out there that could list at least 20 players greater than LeBron.

Agreed. I DO believe that after Lebron's career is over, he will PROBABLY be ranked higher. But, clearly, not after only seven seasons. Oscar was the best guard in the NBA in the entire decade of the 60's (and West was a close 2nd.) Let's see what James' career looks like after 14 seasons.

[alexandreben]

While Fatal9 is :roll: ...obviously because he doesn't buy your theory of better defense in the 60's,...

how about these FACTS?

Kareem joined the NBA in 69-70. His most statistically dominating season's were very early in his career. In 70-71 he averaged 31.7 ppg on .577 shooting. In 71-72, he averaged 34.8 ppg on .574 shooting. And in the 72-73 season, he averaged 30.2 ppg on .554 shooting. Those are, quite simply, his three best seasons, EVER (especially if you factor in his rebounding numbers.)

Ok, so in the 70-71 playoffs, he shot .486 against Thurmond, and .481 against Wilt. In the 71-72 playoffs, Kareem shot .405 against Thurmond, and .457 against Wilt (however, in the last four games of that six game series, Kareem only shot .414.) In the 72-73 playoffs, Kareem shot .428 against Thurmond. And, in that last season, in six regular season games, Kareem shot .450 against Wilt. In fact, against Wilt, in his 28 CAREER games against Chamberlain, Kareem shot .464 (and his CAREER FG% is .559 BTW.) Incidently in their last 10 H2H meetings, Kareem only shot .434 against Wilt. AND, keep in mind that both Thurmond an Wilt were well past their peaks (Wilt retired after the 72-73 season.) Fortunately for Kareem, he did not have to face Russell, or a PRIME Thurmond or a PRIME Wilt.

Not only that but take look at Kareem, in the 70's, and in his PRIME. He had seasons of .518, .539, .529, and 513. His BEST season was in 76-77 (and long after Wilt and Thurmond retired) with a .579 FG%.

Now, take a look at Kareem, in the 80's, and nowhere near the physical force he was in the 70's. His rebounding numbers were AWFUL in the 80's. In fact, he had seasons in which Magic Johnson rebounded better (and in the EARLY 80's BTW.) STILL, aside from Kareem's last two years, at age 40 and 41, he shot .564, or BETTER in EIGHT seasons of the 80's. He had his HIGH season of .604 in the 80's, as well as .599 (at age 37), .588, and .579.

Fatal9 has kindly posted a three game stretch, in the 85-86 season, in which Kareem averaged 42 ppg against HAKEEM. Not only that, but in Abdul-Jabbar's LAST three seasons, at ages 39, 40, and 41, he shot a COMBINED .567 against Olajuwon in their 13 meetings.

Now...you tell me if the players of the 60's could not play defense!
Jlauber, well said:applause:

Here's a quote of Wilt Chamberlain's comment on the defense in his late career(it was late 60's and early 70's in case anyone still wants to say the 60's defense sucks):

"My last two or three years I shot 69 to 73 percent. You think I was a better shooter? No, the defenses got worse and I was able to dunk every damn ball I wanted to. It was easier to get there. When I played against guys like Johnny Kerr . . . He was 6-10 and couldn't jump, but I'll tell you, you didn't get to the basket on him."'

-1982"


Anyone can help to find some reference that KAJ said something similar please, what's his comments on defense from 70's to 80's?

[HeyMarkus]

0 finals wins is where the comparison starts and ends.

you are retarded. how does this have ONE thing to do with whos the better individual player?

[Yung D-Will]

you are retarded. how does this have ONE thing to do with whos the better individual player?
It was a Joke.Obviously anyone with a brain can tell you Oscar should be ranked higher then Lebron all time.

[Simple Jack]

Just what the hell is this about? I don't think I have EVER mentioned those three players in terms of rebounding. But, let's examine them anyway. Haywood did have one season, in the ABA, in which he averaged 19.5 rpg. BUT, that was the ABA...and NOT the NBA, where the QUALITY centers played at the time. His BEST season in the NBA was at 13.4 rpg, in 73-74, ...in a league tha averaged 48 rpg per team. Compare that with the 09-10 in which the average NBA team grabbed 42. He also had three other seasons over 12 rpg. Yes, he was "only" 6-8, but don't feed me that crap about height. Who was the best rebounder in the 90's...yes, 6-8 Rodman. Even in the 00's we had 6-7 Ben Wallace leading the league twice. Incidently, Haywood averaged 22.1 and 21.5 rpg in college (and led the nation in his last year BTW.) What does all of that tell you??? IMHO, Haywood would average about 10-11 rpg in TODAY's NBA.

Billy Cunningham? He had an NBA CAREER rebound average of 10.1 rpg. His BEST season was in the 69-70 season, in which he averaged 13.6 rpg...which was in a league that averaged about 49 (I won't take the time to remove the team rebounds, but it would have dropped them down from the 53 rpg that was recorded, to around that level.) Now, Cunningham was a pretty good athlete, and was called "the Kangaroo Kid." IMHO, Cunningham would average about 9-10 rpg in today's NBA.

McGinnis? He didn't join the NBA until the 75-76 season, and averaged 9.8 rpg in his seven year NBA career. There is not much you can say here...maybe an 8 rpg guy in today's NBA?

Now, if you want to argue what the GREAT rebounders of the 60's and 70's would do in TODAY's era...Russell, Thurmond, Lucas, and Wilt....using basic math, anywhere from 15-18 (or possibly more in Wilt's case.) And, ALL four of them, at their peaks, would lead TODAY's NBA.

You're a sad story, my man.

[ImmortalD24]

You're a sad story, my man. Whats up with the ugly Kobe cartoon as your avatar?

[sosolid4u09]

wheres the idiot ginobli2311......

would love to see his stats and ''facts'' bout this particular topic

[feyki]

That accolades love is very interesting . I'd remember American fans/media , rank Dirk as 45-50 range before 2011 .

[aj1987]

He won't win an NBA title if he resign with the Cavs. Who's gonna coach the Cavs next season?

Bulls and Knicks are legendary franchises.

I even ranked Allen Iverson over Oscar Robertson. AI led his team in the NBA Finals as the number 1 scoring option of his team.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Duncan21formvp]

Pretty much similar players.

[TheImmortal]

:oldlol: