Tracy Mcgrady BEFORE THE INJURIES was the best PURE SCORER the league has ever seen

[TAZORAC]

Mcgrady before the bum knee, arm, back, fingers scored with ease. He was the best pure scorer the league has ever seen.

[The Magic Man]

This is gonna get crazy.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Mcgrady before the bum knee, arm, back, fingers scored with ease. He was the best pure scorer the league has ever seen.

incorrect statement.

[griffmoney2084]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf8RndUf-0Y

[Yung D-Will]

Not even of this decade
http://www.loudsportsshorts.com/basketball/points/iverson.jpg

[griffmoney2084]

Not even of this decade
http://www.loudsportsshorts.com/basketball/points/iverson.jpg

and he didnt even need pwactice

[Yung D-Will]

This message is hidden because griffmoney2084 is on your ignore list.

[OneMoreSucka]

Okay.

No one cares because he got injured and has sucked ever since.

Next.

[Bladers]

Mcgrady before the bum knee, arm, back, fingers scored with ease. He was the best pure scorer the league has ever seen.
http://bearseatbeets.net/random/kobe.gif

KOBE DISAGREES...

[TrueDiesel3]

This thread isn't just an insult to Kobe Bryant, but an insult to Kareem, Wilt, Jordan, and any other great offensive scorer, this league has ever seen.

[JMT]

No, he wasn't.

Can't even honestly say "thanks for trying".

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

David Thompson says, " Huh?"

[Real Men Wear Green]

This thread is symptomatic of the problem with a lot of fans: They can't accept anything less than their boy being "best ever" at something. T-Mac was a great scorer. If he was never hurt would probably be bound for the Hall of Fame. There's no shame in that. My favorite player of the current era, Paul Pierce, is a possible top-10 All-time Celtic, the second-best 2/3 the team has ever had. He is not "the greatest" anything at the NBA level. If more posters could learn to live with that in regards to their own favorite this would be a better board.

[Clifton]

You guys are acting like this is some outlandish statement. He was a 30ppg scorer healthy. In this era. That's not easy to do. He's not, of course, but it's not like dude made a post saying, "Brendan Haywood is the best PURE SCORER the league has ever seen."

It is a bad post, though, because he basically just said it really authoritatively and ran off, which is a horrible way to start a thread.

I always thought Tmac's greatest strength was his passing combined with his being 6'8 with length but with agility and handles like a point guard. I think he's a top 5 passer in the league today, still. That he could reel off 30 point nights like it was nothing was just a bonus. If his team hadn't been so bereft of scoring he would have been a triple double every night guy.

He's also one of the most well-spoken NBA players ever. It's a real pleasure to listen to him talk. And I hardly say this about anyone, much less athletes. He's a better speaker than 98% of Congress.

[HylianNightmare]

allen iverson says hai

[noob cake]

McGrady is GOAT at two things.

1) Being the GOAT scoring champion to not have made out of the first round.
2) Shooting/making 20 ft 2 pt jump shots; no one takes more and no one is better.

[SCdac]

don't forget about the iceman

from 1978 to 1982 he lead the league in scoring in all but one year

28.1 PPG / 53.6 FG%
29.5 PPG / 54.1 FG%
31.7 PPG / 52.8 FG%
28.9 PPG / 49.2 FG%
32.6 PPG / 50.0 FG%

keeping in mind Gervin has a career average of 0.5 three point attempts per game, and never averaged 38+ MPG like McGrady and other stars have, those FG percentages and averages are pretty amazing.

[BallPhunk]

Yeah, yeah...

And Vince Carter could have been as good as Kobe had he just wanted to!

:rolleyes:

[Real Men Wear Green]

You guys are acting like this is some outlandish statement.
It is. It's completely ridiculous, in fact. Before anyone makes a statement like this, they need to ask themselves, "is he a better scorer than MJ?" Jordan scored more, and Jordan scored more efficiently. T-Mac was better at shooting threes. That's all. And that's not enough.

He's also one of the most well-spoken NBA players ever. It's a real pleasure to listen to him talk. And I hardly say this about anyone, much less athletes. He's a better speaker than 98% of Congress.
Ok. That his nothing to do with his scoring ability, but, ok.

[Papaya Petee]

One of the best. Prime McGrady was a better scorer then Kobe.

[I am that I am]

Did T-Mac get 50ppg?

[L.Kizzle]

Possibly top 10-15.

[3zazer1]

One of the best. Prime McGrady was a better scorer then Kobe.

Are you serious? Now I'm not a big kobe fan, cut I gotta defend him here.
Kobe has numorous scoring records
2nd most points scored in a NBA Game (81)
Most points scored by a laker(81)
Most points scored in a half
numorous 40 + games
Record for 3 pointers in a game(12)
vs
A choker in the first round who was the prime scorer on sub par teams(i.e: Magic, Rockets).

Do the math!

[RazorBaLade]

Are you serious? Now I'm not a big kobe fan, cut I gotta defend him here.
Kobe has numorous scoring records
2nd most points scored in a NBA Game (81)
Most points scored by a laker(81)
Most points scored in a half
numorous 40 + games
Record for 3 pointers in a game(12)
vs
A choker in the first round who was the prime scorer on sub par teams(i.e: Magic, Rockets).

Do the math!

dont waste your time, there are about 10 posters that still havent gotten over #5 u might as well just ignore them.

[The_Yearning]

You guys are acting like this is some outlandish statement. He was a 30ppg scorer healthy. In this era. That's not easy to do. He's not, of course, but it's not like dude made a post saying, "Brendan Haywood is the best PURE SCORER the league has ever seen."

It is a bad post, though, because he basically just said it really authoritatively and ran off, which is a horrible way to start a thread.

I always thought Tmac's greatest strength was his passing combined with his being 6'8 with length but with agility and handles like a point guard. I think he's a top 5 passer in the league today, still. That he could reel off 30 point nights like it was nothing was just a bonus. If his team hadn't been so bereft of scoring he would have been a triple double every night guy.

He's also one of the most well-spoken NBA players ever. It's a real pleasure to listen to him talk. And I hardly say this about anyone, much less athletes. He's a better speaker than 98% of Congress.

What?

No.

[iggy>]

prime mcgrady >>>>>>ai

[Yung D-Will]

prime mcgrady >>>>>>ai
I luled

[AJ2k8]

This thread is symptomatic of the problem with a lot of fans: They can't accept anything less than their boy being "best ever" at something. T-Mac was a great scorer. If he was never hurt would probably be bound for the Hall of Fame. There's no shame in that. My favorite player of the current era, Paul Pierce, is a possible top-10 All-time Celtic, the second-best 2/3 the team has ever had. He is not "the greatest" anything at the NBA level. If more posters could learn to live with that in regards to their own favorite this would be a better board.

Paul Pierce begs to differ:D

But i agree with this post:cheers:

[kumquat]

Iverson is not a better pure scorer than McGrady. It's the whole issue of defining a pure scorer and also why Melo is a better pure scorer than Lebron.

[momo]

http://www.detroitpslbasketball.com/Images/GeorgeGervin.jpg








?

[GiveItToBurrito]

Technically, you could make the case that in 2002 he was the most complete ever, but that's just because guys didn't take a lot of threes until this decade. Regardless, MJ was better, look at his efficiency versus TMac's - even in McGrady's career year, MJ was more efficient (and i say this as a huge McGrady fan and someone who hasn't cared much about MJ since 1998).

[Story Up]

Not even of this decade
http://www.loudsportsshorts.com/basketball/points/iverson.jpg

He said best scorer, not most overrated.

[AirJordan23]

I always thought Tmac's greatest strength was his passing combined with his being 6'8 with length but with agility and handles like a point guard. I think he's a top 5 passer in the league today, still. That he could reel off 30 point nights like it was nothing was just a bonus. If his team hadn't been so bereft of scoring he would have been a triple double every night guy.

He's also one of the most well-spoken NBA players ever. It's a real pleasure to listen to him talk. And I hardly say this about anyone, much less athletes. He's a better speaker than 98% of Congress.

I don't know whats worse. Current TMac as a top 5 passer in the league today or '03 TMac as the best pure scorer ever? Definitely debatable.

[Disaprine]

I love tmac and he was right there with A.I and kobe in scoring during the first half of the decade. but him being the best pure scorer isn't true man.

[Bigsmoke]

One of the best. Prime McGrady was a better scorer then Kobe.

meh. Prime McGrady was better than 2003 Kobe. Lets not act like McGrady was putting up 35ppg in his prime.

Hell, I'll put that guy on your Avy over prime Tmac

[Blazed22]

Can someone tell me what the hell the difference is between a pure scorer and just a scorer? Seriously.

[lefthook00]

I don't know about the best pure scorer but he made it looks easier than anyone ever imo. Pure silk. He was like Kobe but taller. Kobe didn't get that smooth until the year of his 2nd three-peat. kI remember T-Mac outshining LeBron a lot of the times they played back when he was healthy.

Ya'll musta forgot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyNhgbzKkTw
The dunk @ 27 sec....oh my God....
Look at the move @ 1:21. He lays it up on the OTHER SIDE of the rim from THERE.

This is my favorite game by T-Mac. You HAVE to be kidding me with that 360 reverse layup!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYnskAufGwM&feature=related

[EllEffEll]

Gervin certainly shoots holes in the OP's premise. Best 'pure scorer I ever saw in person in their prime. I watched him drop something like 44 on the Lakers showtime crew. Made it look like he could do it in his sleep.

Another 'pre-injury' scoring machine was Bob McAdoo. Besides Shaq, he is the only other player in the last 35 years to lead the league in scoring and FG% in the same year (30.6ppg @ .547%) and in his spare time on the floor that year averaged 15.1 rebounds.

The next year he averaged 34.5ppg @ .512% (not to mention 14.1 boards). T-Mac never really came close to that, especially the FG%.

[magnax1]

He was pretty amazing. I've never seen a guy hit pull up threes so easily. He was also a very good defender early on. During his Toronto days, he was actually known mostly for his great defensive play.
I don't know if hes THE best. Hes up there with AI and Kobe though.

[lefthook00]

He was pretty amazing. I've never seen a guy hit pull up threes so easily. He was also a very good defender early on. During his Toronto days, he was actually known mostly for his great defensive play.
I don't know if hes THE best. Hes up there with AI and Kobe though.

Yeah he was so disrespectful when he was younger. No pump fakes, none of that. Dribble drive, pull up in your face and shoot over you and there wasn't sh*t you could do to block it. He was Kobe with LeBron's height and length(possibly even longer).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ueY-JDUUg
Kobe may be a more prolific scorer, but there isn't ONE MOVE that he could do that T-Mac couldn't just as well.

[magnax1]

Yeah he was so disrespectful. No pump fakes, none of that. Dribble drive, pull up in your face and shoot over you and there wasn't sh*t you could do to block it. He was Kobe with LeBron's height and length(possibly even longer).
Yeah, he had freakishly long arms, and thats why his jumper was so good, and why he was so good at blocking shots. He was quick, but not terribly fast, and not THAT great of a leaper. He was basically built like the perfect swingman. 6-7 freakishly and freakishly long with huge hands.

[ShaqAttack3234]

T-Mac in 2003 was definitely a better scorer than Iverson ever was. I mean because of his size and shooting range, he could beat you in more ways than Iverson and he was far more efficient.

I can't compare perimeter scorers and scoring big men so I won't even try. But the only guys on the perimeter I could definitely say were better scorers than 2003 T-Mac were Jordan and Kobe in 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 after Kobe was given the green light later in the season. I'd have to see more George Gervin footage before I could judge. Though people forget that for a short stretch T-Mac was the best swingman in the league and his 2003 season is one of the greatest a SG/SF has ever had.

[magnax1]

I'd agree that he was a better scorer, but AI had more ways to beat you, even though he usually had trouble getting his shot off against most players. His FG% is basically just because of his heigth, and even then he still got up to what Kobe has some years.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'd agree that he was a better scorer, but AI had more ways to beat you, even though he usually had trouble getting his shot off against most players. His FG% is basically just because of his heigth, and even then he still got up to what Kobe has some years.

I disagree, T-Mac could finish strong over the top of big men much easier, he was a much better 3 point shooter who could beat you from well beyond the 3 point line when he was hot and he could post up a bit, something Iverson couldn't do. McGrady also had amazing ball handling skills, Iverson was a great ball handler as well, but McGrady's skills and length were extremely rare.

Prime Allen Iverson could create off the dribble or come off screens, people forget that he played off the ball a fair amount during the Larry Brown era and Iverson was a streaky jump shooter who could get hot, more often on mid-range shots, though. He as great at getting to the foul line or finishing with floaters and of course we saw him get up there and dunk on a few guys, but the latter wasn't a regular thing for Iverson like it was for T-Mac.

Again, I'd say T-Mac's shooting range and size made him a more versatile scorer who could beat you in more different ways. Don't forget that T-Mac was an excellent shooter off the dribble from anywhere on the court, but he could also play off the ball and was good at catching and shooting as well.

[magnax1]

I disagree, T-Mac could finish strong over the top of big men much easier, he was a much better 3 point shooter who could beat you from well beyond the 3 point line when he was hot and he could post up a bit, something Iverson couldn't do. McGrady also had amazing ball handling skills, Iverson was a great ball handler as well, but McGrady's skills and length were extremely rare.

Prime Allen Iverson could create off the dribble or come off screens, people forget that he played off the ball a fair amount during the Larry Brown era and Iverson was a streaky jump shooter who could get hot, more often on mid-range shots, though. He as great at getting to the foul line or finishing with floaters and of course we saw him get up there and dunk on a few guys, but the latter wasn't a regular thing for Iverson like it was for T-Mac.

Again, I'd say T-Mac's shooting range and size made him a more versatile scorer who could beat you in more different ways. Don't forget that T-Mac was an excellent shooter off the dribble from anywhere on the court, but he could also play off the ball and was good at catching and shooting as well.
Well I was saying if you ignore size, then AI is the more skilled scorer. Like you said, he could come off the ball, he was a good shooter, he was better at getting to the rim because of his handles, and he got out on the break more then almost anyone. TMac could post, and had better 3pt range, and was a much better finisher, just because of his size but I don't think he was more skilled scorer.

[ABfor3]

I'm a long time T-Mac fan myself. There wasn't really nothing that bad on his game early on in his career. His jumper was so smooth and his handles were as good as a point guard. His vision was always one of the best in the game. His length and height was just a bonus. I honestly thought he was gonna be the next MJ, but then Kobe started to really spring off. No doubt the man was great, but to say he was the best pure scorer EVER is just a little out of range. It's hard to really compare great players from the past till players from this era because alot of us weren't born, and there is just so little footage of players like Gervin, Wilt, Robertson, etc. While we have days worth for guys like McGrady , Kobe, AI , MJ, etc.

[momo]

Gervin certainly shoots holes in the OP's premise. Best 'pure scorer I ever saw in person in their prime. I watched him drop something like 44 on the Lakers showtime crew. Made it look like he could do it in his sleep.

Another 'pre-injury' scoring machine was Bob McAdoo. Besides Shaq, he is the only other player in the last 35 years to lead the league in scoring and FG% in the same year (30.6ppg @ .547%) and in his spare time on the floor that year averaged 15.1 rebounds.

The next year he averaged 34.5ppg @ .512% (not to mention 14.1 boards). T-Mac never really came close to that, especially the FG%.

No doubt... and he made it look sooooooo easy. Just effortless. He often looked like he was going to get stuffed too and it would just make it over the defender.

McAdoo too... somehow he is sort of a forgotten guy.

[ShaqAttack3234]

When T-Mac was young and athletic it was a thing of beauty to watch him elevate high in the air for a long 3 and make it look effortless. He had great elevation on his jumpshot. We really stopped seeing that from him around 2005. His jumpshot got a lot worse, actually his free throws did too and he started attacking the basket less. He was still a very good player in 2007 and 2008, but not the same, though we did see flashes of the old T-Mac. It's too bad we didn't get to see what the T-Mac/Yao duo could really develop into.

[Yung D-Will]

He said best scorer, not most overrated.
Yea that's why I put up a picture of A.I not Vince :rolleyes:

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yea that's why I put up a picture of A.I not Vince :rolleyes:

For a while with New Jersey, Vince was actually underrated, he was a big time disappointment with Orlando. He got overrated with Toronto, but his 2006-2007 season with New Jersey was extremely underrated, he was hitting game-winners and clutch shots left right, had an efficient 25/6/5 season, had monster games like a 46/16/10 game ect. and played through basically every injury he had, put off surgeries with New Jersey and look what happened to the Nets after he left. It's strange, Vince showed a real talent for passing the ball with the Nets, but we didn't see that much with Orlando. He was basically a jump shooter this year with Orlando.

He was overrated in Toronto, underrated with New Jersey and not really rated that much with Orlando either way.

Iverson does get too much crap for his low FG%. For example, in 2000, he shot 42% in the regular season and 38% in the playoffs, but Philly won 49 games and made it to the 2nd round(Philly was 7-5 without him and 42-28 with him).

But in 2001, Philly won 56 games and made it to the finals. He shot 42% in the regular season, but they were 50-21 with him and 6-5 without him. He shot 39% in the playoffs, but nobody who watched those playoffs would deny that he was great. In 2002, he shot under 40% for the season, but Philly again had a winning record at 43-39 and with Iverson they were 36-24, but just 7-15 without him. In 2003, Iverson shot 41% in the regular season and 42% in the playoffs, but they won 48 games and made it to the second round again.

Iverson was clearly helping the team. The way that team was built, they had a bunch of great defenders/role players, but Iverson was their scorer, and they needed him to take a lot of shots. They could keep the team close when he was cold and could win the game on his hot streaks. Larry Brown utilized that talent perfectly.

For 5 consecutive years under Larry Brown they had winning teams and Iverson's FG% was 42% and lower and his teams were consistently better with him than they were without him. In that case, FG% can't really become a complaint because he was helping his team.

[iamgine]

T-Mac wasn't even a pure scorer.

[tontoz]

One 30 point season. Big deal

[mike_23_goat]

This thread isn't just an insult to Kobe Bryant, but an insult to Kareem, Wilt, Jordan, and any other great offensive scorer, this league has ever seen.


Seriously...is this even worth discussing, Tracy Mcgrady was good but not Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe, or Iverson good.:no: :no:

[gyu]

One 30 point season. Big deal
How about the fact that he did it at age 24-25

[Baby_D]

He's a better speaker than 98% of Congress.

Bold Statement. You get a big LOL.

[tontoz]

How about the fact that he did it at age 24-25

That was his 7th season and he was playing on a weak team. He doesn't even deserve a mention among the time scorers in NBA history, regardless of his injuries.

Durant just dropped 30 in his 3rd season. i guess that makes him the best scorer ever. :roll:

[crisoner]

I would give the pure scorer award to Kareem, Wilt and MJ. Those three and that's it.

[B-Low]

prime mcgrady >>>>>>ai

Yeeeah that's why in both their primes AI took a crap team to the NBA finals and won league MVP while McGrady took a crap team to the worst record in the NBA and cried til he got traded

[Revelation]

One 30 point season. Big deal

Let's not act like that was his only good season.

00-01: 26.8ppg, 7.5rpg, 4.6ast, 1.5stl, 1.5blk - ALL NBA 2nd Team
01-02: 25.6ppg, 7.9rpg, 5.3ast, 1.6stl, 1.0blk- ALL NBA 1st Team
02-03: 32.1ppg, 6.5rpg, 5.5ast, 1.7stl - ALL NBA 1st Team
03-04: 28.0ppg, 6.0rpg, 5.5ast, 1.4stl - ALL NBA 2nd Team
04-05: 25.7ppg, 6.2rpb, 5.7ast, 1.7stl - ALL NBA 3rd Team
05-06: 24.4ppg, 6.5rpg, 4.8ast, 1.3stl, 1.0blk - Injured season
06-07: 24.4ppg, 5.3rpg, 6.5ast, 1.3stl -ALL NBA 2nd Team


Playoffs:
00-01: 33.8ppg, 6.5rpg, 8.3ast, 1.7stl, 1.1blk
01-02: 30.8pgg, 6.3rpg, 5.5ast, 0.5stl, 1.7blk
02-03: 31.7ppg, 6.7rpg, 4.7ast, 2.0stl, 1.9blk
04-05: 30.7ppg, 7.4rpg, 6.7ast, 1.5stl, 1.7blk

[Jacks3]

Let's not act like that was his only good season.

00-01: 26.8ppg, 7.5rpg, 4.6ast, 1.5stl, 1.5blk - ALL NBA 2nd Team
01-02: 25.6ppg, 7.9rpg, 5.3ast, 1.6stl, 1.0blk- ALL NBA 1st Team
02-03: 32.1ppg, 6.5rpg, 5.5ast, 1.7stl - ALL NBA 1st Team
03-04: 28.0ppg, 6.0rpg, 5.5ast, 1.4stl - ALL NBA 2nd Team
04-05: 25.7ppg, 6.2rpb, 5.7ast, 1.7stl - ALL NBA 3rd Team
05-06: 24.4ppg, 6.5rpg, 4.8ast, 1.3stl, 1.0blk - Injured season
06-07: 24.4ppg, 5.3rpg, 6.5ast, 1.3stl -ALL NBA 2nd Team


Playoffs:
00-01: 33.8ppg, 6.5rpg, 8.3ast, 1.7stl, 1.1blk
01-02: 30.8pgg, 6.3rpg, 5.5ast, 0.5stl, 1.7blk
02-03: 31.7ppg, 6.7rpg, 4.7ast, 2.0stl, 1.9blk
04-05: 30.7ppg, 7.4rpg, 6.7ast, 1.5stl, 1.7blk
Damn he was a beast.:bowdown:

[Kellogs4toniee]

Let's not act like that was his only good season.

00-01: 26.8ppg, 7.5rpg, 4.6ast, 1.5stl, 1.5blk - ALL NBA 2nd Team
01-02: 25.6ppg, 7.9rpg, 5.3ast, 1.6stl, 1.0blk- ALL NBA 1st Team
02-03: 32.1ppg, 6.5rpg, 5.5ast, 1.7stl - ALL NBA 1st Team
03-04: 28.0ppg, 6.0rpg, 5.5ast, 1.4stl - ALL NBA 2nd Team
04-05: 25.7ppg, 6.2rpb, 5.7ast, 1.7stl - ALL NBA 3rd Team
05-06: 24.4ppg, 6.5rpg, 4.8ast, 1.3stl, 1.0blk - Injured season
06-07: 24.4ppg, 5.3rpg, 6.5ast, 1.3stl -ALL NBA 2nd Team


Playoffs:
00-01: 33.8ppg, 6.5rpg, 8.3ast, 1.7stl, 1.1blk
01-02: 30.8pgg, 6.3rpg, 5.5ast, 0.5stl, 1.7blk
02-03: 31.7ppg, 6.7rpg, 4.7ast, 2.0stl, 1.9blk
04-05: 30.7ppg, 7.4rpg, 6.7ast, 1.5stl, 1.7blk

Right here is the reason why he isn't in the same injury department as a Bill Walton or Grant Hill. He's injury-prone, but they come at crucial stages in the season (right before playoffs, right at the height of a great run of games, etc.) But he has been healthy and been elite for enough number of years to warrant a hall of fame consideration. Not first ballot for sure, but he will get in some day I truly believe.

[Bigsmoke]

T-Mac in 2003 was definitely a better scorer than Iverson ever was. I mean because of his size and shooting range, he could beat you in more ways than Iverson and he was far more efficient.

butt the only guys on the perimeter I could definitely say were better scorers than 2003 T-Mac were Jordan and Kobe in 2005-2006had.

Hell, Iverson only averaged 2.4 points less than what Kobe averaged in that 2006 season with the same FG%.

thats just me though. Iverson was a more dangerous scorer than Tmac was.

[tontoz]

Let's not act like that was his only good season.
00-01: 26.8ppg, 7.5rpg, 4.6ast, 1.5stl, 1.5blk - ALL NBA 2nd Team
01-02: 25.6ppg, 7.9rpg, 5.3ast, 1.6stl, 1.0blk- ALL NBA 1st Team
02-03: 32.1ppg, 6.5rpg, 5.5ast, 1.7stl - ALL NBA 1st Team
03-04: 28.0ppg, 6.0rpg, 5.5ast, 1.4stl - ALL NBA 2nd Team
04-05: 25.7ppg, 6.2rpb, 5.7ast, 1.7stl - ALL NBA 3rd Team
05-06: 24.4ppg, 6.5rpg, 4.8ast, 1.3stl, 1.0blk - Injured season
06-07: 24.4ppg, 5.3rpg, 6.5ast, 1.3stl -ALL NBA 2nd Team


Playoffs:
00-01: 33.8ppg, 6.5rpg, 8.3ast, 1.7stl, 1.1blk
01-02: 30.8pgg, 6.3rpg, 5.5ast, 0.5stl, 1.7blk
02-03: 31.7ppg, 6.7rpg, 4.7ast, 2.0stl, 1.9blk
04-05: 30.7ppg, 7.4rpg, 6.7ast, 1.5stl, 1.7blk


I think you are a little confused. Maybe you should read the title to the thread again.

[joshwake]

apparently your, and most people on this boards definition of "pure" has nothing to do with efficiency.

[Revelation]

I think you are a little confused. Maybe you should read the title to the thread again.

I understand the thread title and would say that McGrady was clearly not the best pure scorer ever. However, he certainly had more than one elite season so I don't think it's accurate to brush him aside as a "one hit wonder". There are 2 huge misconceptions about McGrady:

1) He only had one or two good seasons.
2) He didn't step up his game in the playoffs.

Both are completely false. In fact, the statistics show the exact opposite.

[Ass Dan]

Mcgrady before the bum knee, arm, back, fingers scored with ease. He was the best pure scorer the league has ever seen.

:roll:

Great post, I look forward to future efforts from you. I really love how you back up your argument in such detail. You've convinced me.:lol

[Jumpman10135]

Kobe wasnt even on his, Carters or AIs level in 2003. Kinda sad neither of them 3 stayed good.

[KINGS2002CHAMPS]

Mcgrady before the bum knee, arm, back, fingers scored with ease. He was the best pure scorer the league has ever seen.

I wouldn't say he was better than Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain, but he was certainly better than say Kobe or Wade. Iverson and Mcgrady in their prime were both better scorers than Kobe. Just look at their playoff scoring averages. They also played in the East with FAR FAR better defense while Kobe plays with soft defense till he gets to the Finals where he almost always shoots horribly from the field. Kobe's lone exceptions were Finals agianst the Nets where the their defense was AWFUL.

[sayitaintso]

Michael Jordan is the best scorer in the league.

Let's compare Jordan to another current NBA HOF Kobe Bryant.

Jordan lead the league in scoring 10 times.
Kobe 2 times.
McGrady 2 times

Jordan 37.1 35.0 32.5 33.6 31.5 30.1 32.6 30.4 29.6 28.7 (other seasons he did not: 28.2 22.7 26.9 22.9 20.0). 5 time MVP 6 time finals MVP

Kobe 35.4 31.6 (other seasons he did not: 7.6 15.4 19.9 22.5 28.5 25.2 30.0 24.0 27.6 28.3 26.8 27.0) 1 time MVP 2 time finals MVP

McGrady 32.1 28.0 (other seasons he did not 7.0 9.3 15.4 26.8 25.6 25.7 24.4 24.6 21.6 15.6 3.2 9.4) ?

[tontoz]

I understand the thread title and would say that McGrady was clearly not the best pure scorer ever. However, he certainly had more than one elite season so I don't think it's accurate to brush him aside as a "one hit wonder". There are 2 huge misconceptions about McGrady:

1) He only had one or two good seasons.
2) He didn't step up his game in the playoffs.

Both are completely false. In fact, the statistics show the exact opposite.

Ever hear of a strawman argument? That is what you are making.

McGrady wasn't even the best scorer of his own era. He doesn't even belong in the conversation among the best scorers all time.

[Jacks3]

Kobe wasnt even on his, Carters or AIs level in 2003. .
:roll:

[Jacks3]

Iverson and Mcgrady in their prime were both better scorers than Kobe.
:roll:

[tpols]

Ever hear of a strawman argument? That is what you are making.

McGrady wasn't even the best scorer of his own era. He doesn't even belong in the conversation among the best scorers all time.
This whole board employs strawman arguments in nearly every thread. We're all training to become lawyers.

[EarlTheGoat]

Best pure scorer of all time is a bit of a far-fetched statement, but he is definetely the top pure scorer of the last decade, or at least he is up there fighting for that award.

Prime Tracy Mgrady could do practicly everything a scorer needs to do: drive, midrange shooting, 3pt shooting, post up, shoot off screen...etc. He was very close to being unguardable in those 02 and 03 seasons. Its a shame a combination of factors: injuries, having the rong teammates on his prime, a bit of unluck...etc, privated him from winning at least one NBA Championship. Longevity, consistency and team achievements is what separates him from other all-time greats like Kobe, Wade and Jordan.

I havent seen play guys like Gervin, Mcadoo, Wilt...etc on a daily basis, although ive watched some footage, I dont know if he is up there with them, but as I said, prime Tracy Mcgrady is the most versatile scorer of the last decade.

[icemanfan]

This thread isn't just an insult to Kobe Bryant, but an insult to Kareem, Wilt, Jordan, and any other great offensive scorer, this league has ever seen.
Ice was the greatest pure scorer in the NBA

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/gallery/featured/GAL1158469/5/38/index.htm

[Bodhi]

I understand the thread title and would say that McGrady was clearly not the best pure scorer ever. However, he certainly had more than one elite season so I don't think it's accurate to brush him aside as a "one hit wonder". There are 2 huge misconceptions about McGrady:

1) He only had one or two good seasons.
2) He didn't step up his game in the playoffs.

Both are completely false. In fact, the statistics show the exact opposite.

Any arguments about McGrady are hurt by the fact that he never played anyone good in the playoffs. Of course your stats look good when you lose in the first round all the time with 4/5th seeds.

[Revelation]

Ever hear of a strawman argument? That is what you are making.

McGrady wasn't even the best scorer of his own era. He doesn't even belong in the conversation among the best scorers all time.

How is it a straw man argument? I'm not agreeing with the topic starter -- McGrady was NOT the best pure scorer ever. I am simply asserting that labeling McGrady as a "One hit wonder" (one good season) is erroneous. I listed two common misconceptions about Mcgrady, neither were shown to be false.

[Revelation]

Any arguments about McGrady are hurt by the fact that he never played anyone good in the playoffs. Of course your stats look good when you lose in the first round all the time with 4/5th seeds.

That's not true...

2001-2002: Charlotte Hornets
Opponent Points Per Game: 92.9 (7th of 29)
Defensive Rating: 103.3 (10th of 29)

2002-2003: Detroit Pistons
Opponent Points Per Game: 87.7 (1st of 29)
Defensive Rating: 99.9 (4th of 29)

2004-2005: Dallas Mavericks
Opponent Points Per Game: 96.8 (14th of 30)
Defensive Rating: 104.1 (9th of 30)

2007-2008: Utah Jazz
Opponent Points Per Game: 99.3 (13th of 30)
Defensive Rating: 106.5 (12th of 30)

[tontoz]

How is it a straw man argument? I'm not agreeing with the topic starter -- McGrady was NOT the best pure scorer ever. I am simply asserting that labeling McGrady as a "One hit wonder" (one good season) is erroneous. I listed two common misconceptions about Mcgrady, neither were shown to be false.


Who said he had only one good season? Who said he sucked in the playoffs?

All i said is that he only had one 30 point season which certainly wouldn't qualify him as the best scorer ever. You certainly don't need to score 30 ppg for a season to qualify as good.

You just made up something to argue against which is the definition of a strawman argument.

[Revelation]

Who said he had only one good season? Who said he sucked in the playoffs?

All i said is that he only had one 30 point season which certainly wouldn't qualify him as the best scorer ever. You certainly don't need to score 30 ppg for a season to qualify as good.

You just made up something to argue against which is the definition of a strawman argument.

I was not referring to the original posters claim of McGrady being the "Best Pure Scorer", I think we both agree that is rather extreme. I was replying to your comment "One 30 point season. Big deal". You made it sound as if McGrady only had one impressive season.

[tontoz]

I was not referring to the original posters claim of McGrady being the "Best Pure Scorer", I think we both agree that is rather extreme. I was replying to your comment "One 30 point season. Big deal". You made it sound as if McGrady only had one impressive season.

I said nothing of the sort. You don't need to score 30 to have an impressive season. Lebron didn't score 30 ppg this year but he sure had an impressive season. There have been plenty of very impressive seasons where a player didn't score 30 ppg.

However to be among the all time great scorers you need more than one 30 ppg season, unless you are averaging near 30 every year for many years.

[Revelation]

I said nothing of the sort. You don't need to score 30 to have an impressive season. Lebron didn't score 30 ppg this year but he sure had an impressive season. There have been plenty of very impressive seasons where a player didn't score 30 ppg.

However to be among the all time great scorers you need more than one 30 ppg season, unless you are averaging near 30 every year for many years.

Actually, that was a direct quote from you on page 4, post #52. Regardless, I simply posted McGrady's statistics to show that his 02-03 season was not some random fluke. Again, I DO NOT think McGrady is an all time great scorer.

[tontoz]

Actually, that was a direct quote from you on page 4, post #52. Regardless, I simply posted McGrady's statistics to show that his 02-03 season was not some random fluke. Again, I DO NOT think McGrady is an all time great scorer.


Obviously reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Nowhere did i say he had only one good season. i certainly didn't define a good season as only being one where a player scores at least 30 ppg. That was your own imagination.