Garnett vs Malone vs Barkley (Who's the second best PF of all time)

[Yung D-Will]

Garnett 19.8/10.8/4.2/1.6
# NBA Champion (2008)
# NBA Most Valuable Player (2004)
# NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2008)
# 13

[BlueandGold]

garnett

[PHILA]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2uz6tky.jpg

[Yung D-Will]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2uz6tky.jpg

That looks like kevin Durant O.O

[BlueandGold]

That looks like kevin Durant O.O

What? go back to sleep your too young to remember Barkley. lol @ stupid 15 y/os on the internet late cause its summer.

[Yung D-Will]

What? go back to sleep your too young to remember Barkley. lol @ stupid 15 y/os on the internet late cause its summer.

What I know who it is.

I just said he looks like Kevin Durant in that picture.

[Yung D-Will]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2uz6tky.jpg
http://blog.newsok.com/bamsblog/files/2008/08/kevin-durant-dunk-1.jpg

YOU can see the similarities . I know I'm not crazy here

[Andrei89]

BlueandGold just letting his anger out on the forums cuz his daddy still smacks him when he is being an idiot.:lol :lol

[Lebron23]

Sir Charles

Round Mound of Rebound

[FormerSunsFan]

I still don't accept Duncan's big @ss as a power forward but anyway...

My favorite player growing up was Barkley but I have to admit he was lazy (and fat) and that's why he broke down in 93-94 and couldn't cash in after Jordan retired the first time. They were better than Houston.

Garnett has probably equaled Barkley's career with imo less talent. He rotted in Minnesota, thanks in part to his fat contract and the Joe Smith fiasco. I always thought he was a second banana (ala Kevin Mchale) and he finally won in Boston as a sidekick.

But I say Karl Malone was better than both because he was more consistent individually and teamwise.

[w00terz]

Karl Malone and it isn't even close.

[Quata]

That picture looks like it has a little andrew bynum and carlos boozer mixed in as well.
Major laff at blueandgold being that much of a douchenozzle.

Ill go with malone, playing at that level for as long as he did, considering longevity always seems to factor into these things. If it wasn't for jordan hed have a few rings.

[necya]

the best PF are Malone, Barkley and Duncan.
it's too difficult to argue who is the best cause they are so different...but are the best of history.
for the second best, i think about the great Kevin McHale

[Crystallas]

Charles.

[Sarcastic]

Defensively - KG
Offensively - Barkley

[beermonsteroo]

Barkleyis better then Garnett and it's not even close.
He was a better scorer, better rebounder and better passer.
I don't see how anyone can rank Garnett over Barkley

[Sarcastic]

Barkleyis better then Garnett and it's not even close.
He was a better scorer, better rebounder and better passer.
I don't see how anyone can rank Garnett over Barkley

KG is a better interior defender. Barkley never won DPOY.

[necya]

KG is a better interior defender. Barkley never won DPOY.

DPOY in 2008...where are the good interiors in 2008?
Barkley played against the best PF in the 80's and 90's, 2000 era is a joke if you compare...

[Fatal9]

Barkleyis better then Garnett and it's not even close.
He was a better scorer, better rebounder and better passer.
I don't see how anyone can rank Garnett over Barkley
Better scorer, yes. Though in the half court it's closer than you think.
Better rebounder, no. What Barkley did at his size is more impressive but numbers wise KG is easily the better rebounder, and his numbers are at a much lower pace. Young Barkley better on offensive rebounding only because he was so explosive at rebounding his own miss, but overall KG was better.
Better passer, slight edge to Barkley only because when he was on the Suns, he was so elite at passing out of the post, some called him the best passer below the FT line in those years. KG isn't someone to overlook here, he has better assist numbers than him, could make plays facing up, read doubles well, was almost too willing to pass at times but if he was on a good team during his prime, we'd be lauding him for his unselfish ball distribution.

KG is one of the most versatile defenders to ever play at his size. His mobility allows him to cover a huge area of the floor that not many 6'11+ guys have ever been to able to do. Even today, on a bum knee at 34 years old, he still anchored the best defense in the game. Goes from shading Kobe to covering the pick and roll to protecting the rim. He is everywhere. Barkley has never, ever, come close to impacting games like that on the other end. Whatever offensive edge you feel Barkley holds, is easily made up by KG's defensive impact. Sssuming they are on equally talented championship level teams, I'm not sure Barkleys extra 2-3 extra points on scoring make up for what KG provides on defense (especially because with a decent cast, offense is usually taken care of).

I would take 2004 KG over either of them, but it's close. Barkley is probably the best all around offensively. Malone is the best scorer and one on one defender in the post. KG though is Barkley's offensive skill and versatility with elite team D that can anchor historically great defenses. Neither of them are "clutch", Barkley had a nice string of clutch moments in '93 so he might have the edge but there are other duds. KG doesn't "choke" so much as he doesn't turn up his aggression at the end of games (scoring wise). Malone well...lets not go there.

[Sarcastic]

DPOY in 2008...where are the good interiors in 2008?
Barkley played against the best PF in the 80's and 90's, 2000 era is a joke if you compare...

Dwight Howard.

[Sarcastic]

Better scorer, yes. Though in the half court it's closer than you think.
Better rebounder, no. What Barkley did at his size is more impressive but numbers wise KG is easily the better rebounder, and his numbers are at a much lower pace. Young Barkley better on offensive rebounding only because he was so explosive at rebounding his own miss, but overall KG was better.
Better passer, slight edge to Barkley only because when he was on the Suns, he was so elite at passing out of the post, some called him the best passer below the FT line in those years. KG isn't someone to overlook here, he has better assist numbers than him, could make plays facing up, read doubles well, was almost too willing to pass at times but if he was on a good team during his prime, we'd be lauding him for his unselfish ball distribution.

KG is one of the most versatile defenders to ever play at his size. His mobility allows him to cover a huge area of the floor that not many 6'11+ guys have ever been to able to do. Even today, on a bum knee at 34 years old, he still anchored the best defense in the game. Goes from shading Kobe to covering the pick and roll to protecting the rim. He is everywhere. Barkley has never, ever, come close to impacting games like that on the other end. Whatever offensive edge you feel Barkley holds, is easily made up by KG's defensive impact. Sssuming they are on equally talented championship level teams, I'm not sure Barkleys extra 2-3 extra points on scoring make up for what KG provides on defense (especially because with a decent cast, offense is usually taken care of).

I would take 2004 KG over either of them, but it's close. Barkley is probably the best all around offensively. Malone is the best scorer and one on one defender in the post. KG though is Barkley's offensive skill and versatility with elite team D that can anchor historically great defenses. Neither of them are "clutch", Barkley had a nice string of clutch moments in '93 so he might have the edge but there are other duds. KG doesn't "choke" so much as he doesn't turn up his aggression at the end of games (scoring wise). Malone well...lets not go there.

Barlkley could take over games offensively in ways that Garnett never could. Barkley's edge offensively is just as good as KG's edge defensively. They both can take over at those ends of the floor in ways the other guy couldn't.

[necya]

Dwight Howard.

well, thanks for confirm

[Yung D-Will]

DPOY in 2008...where are the good interiors in 2008?
Barkley played against the best PF in the 80's and 90's, 2000 era is a joke if you compare...

I thought alot of people referred to 00's as the Pf's era

[plowking]

Some of you criminally underrate Karl Malone. At his best he was the best PF ever.

All time, he's second behind Duncan, pretty comfortably too. I don't see any case for Charles or Garnett over him. He had better stats, more accomplished, and lets not even go into longevity.

[Sarcastic]

Some of you criminally underrate Karl Malone. At his best he was the best PF ever.

All time, he's second behind Duncan, pretty comfortably too. I don't see any case for Charles or Garnett over him. He had better stats, more accomplished, and lets not even go into longevity.

Karl Malone was a numbers machine that choked in the playoffs. Problem with him is that he always played with Stockton, so we don't know how much of his stats are inflated from playing with one of the best PGs of all time. We have seen Barkley and Garnett carry teams without much help.

[Yung D-Will]

So exactly what is the Pf era

[necya]

I thought alot of people referred to 00's as the Pf's era

00 is just the worst era.

90's : Malone, Barkley, Kemp, Rodman, Johnson, Webber, Grant, Coleman, Willis
00's : Nowitzki, Garnett, Duncan, Bosh, Gasol, Boozer, Stoudamire, Randolph

they are good, but better in 90's and when you add all the C... it was the shit!

[Yung D-Will]

00 is just the worst era.

90's : Malone, Barkley, Kemp, Rodman, Johnson, Webber, Grant, Coleman, Willis
00's : Nowitzki, Garnett, Duncan, Bosh, Gasol, Boozer, Stoudamire, Randolph

they are good, but better in 90's and when you add all the C... it was the shit!

Doesn't webber count as the 00's?

I always considered the Pf era as the late 90's through early 00's

[Bigsmoke]

DPOY in 2008...where are the good interiors in 2008?
Barkley played against the best PF in the 80's and 90's, 2000 era is a joke if you compare...

i think the PFs now are harder to guard than the ones back in the 80's an 90's.

back in 2008, KG had to guard Dirk, Duncan, Bosh, Amare, Carlos Boozer, Antawn Jamison, David West, ect.

Barkley had what? Mchale and Malone.

[Bigsmoke]

00 is just the worst era.

90's : Malone, Barkley, Kemp, Rodman, Johnson, Webber, Grant, Coleman, Willis
00's : Nowitzki, Garnett, Duncan, Bosh, Gasol, Boozer, Stoudamire, Randolph

they are good, but better in 90's and when you add all the C... it was the shit!

and those PFs are better.

and why would guarding Rodman would be a challenge?

[Calabis]

Barlkley could take over games offensively in ways that Garnett never could. Barkley's edge offensively is just as good as KG's edge defensively. They both can take over at those ends of the floor in ways the other guy couldn't.

I agree, more versatile also...Chuck played SF at times too. Garnett had a hard time with a 40 year old/injured Karl Malone.

As far as best PF, Duncan or Malone can't go wrong either way imo

[Calabis]

Karl Malone was a numbers machine that choked in the playoffs. Problem with him is that he always played with Stockton, so we don't know how much of his stats are inflated from playing with one of the best PGs of all time. We have seen Barkley and Garnett carry teams without much help.

Garnett hasn't choked in the playoffs??? Dude didn't win anything until he got with Pierce/Allen and a great supporting cast, so I don't know why you use Stockton as a negative against Malone. Malone better than Garnett...shouldn't even be a debate

[Yung D-Will]

Neither of them won anything in their primes so I'm not sure where you guys are going with this

[ImmortalD24]

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4848/kevingarnett.jpg

(assuming Duncan is a PF, which he clearly isn't but i'll play along) KG hands down.

[rmt]

Each one has qualities in his favor:

Malone - longevity, numbers - but a lot of his scoring was benefitted by playing alongside the all-time assist leader, Stockton and Malone choked in the playoffs.

Garnett - best defense of the 3 but can he carry a team in the playoffs? Check out Rasho's opinion below:

Reporters question:

You played alongside the best two PFs of the last 15 years Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett who both won an MVP award and a championship ring. Who made a bigger impression on you?

Rasho:

I have to say Duncan. He is a true team leader. Garnett is a phenomenal player with great physical abilities but I don't think he is mentally strong enough to be a team leader. If he would have stayed in Minessota I don't think he would ever win a ring. He did the right move by going to Boston because there is Paul Pierce who is a true team leader that scores in clutch moments.


Link(in Slovenian): http://www.rtvslo.si/sport/kosarka/r...entance/231773

Barkley - defense wasn't great but not a choker and can carry a team in the playoffs.

To me that's why Duncan is the clear cut greatest power forward ever - had the offense, defense, could carry a team (especially in the playoffs) and "clutchness," all of which resulted in 4 titles.

[Calabis]

Each one has qualities in his favor:

Malone - longevity, numbers - but a lot of his scoring was benefitted by playing alongside the all-time assist leader, Stockton and Malone choked in the playoffs.

Garnett - best defense of the 3 but can he carry a team in the playoffs? Check out Rasho's opinion below:

Reporters question:

You played alongside the best two PFs of the last 15 years Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett who both won an MVP award and a championship ring. Who made a bigger impression on you?

Rasho:

I have to say Duncan. He is a true team leader. Garnett is a phenomenal player with great physical abilities but I don't think he is mentally strong enough to be a team leader. If he would have stayed in Minessota I don't think he would ever win a ring. He did the right move by going to Boston because there is Paul Pierce who is a true team leader that scores in clutch moments.


Link(in Slovenian): http://www.rtvslo.si/sport/kosarka/r...entance/231773

Barkley - defense wasn't great but not a choker and can carry a team in the playoffs.

To me that's why Duncan is the clear cut greatest power forward ever - had the offense, defense, could carry a team (especially in the playoffs) and "clutchness," all of which resulted in 4 titles.

Can't argue with that...nice post

[cavsfanatic]

Karl Malone and it isn't even close.
Exactly. It's so far its not even funny. wtf this board on?

[Yung D-Will]

Exactly. It's so far its not even funny. wtf this board on?

The internet

[Andrei89]

And since when was Rodman a PF, guy also played the SF position

[AirJordan23]

1. Charles Barkley. His offensive game was excellent. Better than someone like Duncan's but his defense is what puts him behind him. Sir Charles was lazy and didn't put effort at all times. He'd gamble on the defensive end and often didn't get back in time in transition. He had all the defensive tools to be a monster on the defensive end but he lacked the mindset. And at times he was too aggresive, gambled and it didn't pay off for him. Also, would end up taking a break and not getting back in transition. On the other hand, his offensive game MORE THAN MADE UP for his poor defense. The way this guy would dominate games by scoring and rebounding would leave the casual fan astonished. He was out there getting a near triple double in the WCF, 44/24 in the '93 game 7, dropping 56 on a Warrior team with a rookie CWebb and Gatling, manhandling Buck Williams and Robinson in the '95 playoffs and made a great comeback in the '99 Laker/Rockets playoff series. Also, injuries shortened his career. Barkley himself said he planned on retiring after the '94 or '95 season due to back and knee injuries. Even said he wasn't a "good player' by 1997/98. He had no flaws in his offensive game save for settling for too many 3s.

2. Karl Malone. Never liked him. Felt he didn't deserve either of his MVPs. Should've gone to MJ and Zo. But, I can't deny his superb conditioning, longevity and a bunch of accolades. That's pretty much what puts him above KG but there's no way I'm taking this choke-artist over Garnett when it comes to building a team. Regarding his game, it was overrated. He wasn't as good of a defensive player as listed. Off the top of my head, he was listed as all defensive first team in '98 but was he really better than Duncan or Rodman that year? Doubt it. He was good at stripping the ball, had quick hands and good instincts but not a game changer defensively. Not much of a shot blocker either. His mid range game was excellent in the mid 90s and he was a great scorer. Top 5 in the league for several years. Wasn't clutch though which is the biggest knock on him. He'd fade away when the big moment came. Stockton was the one making big plays. Take a look at the '97 and '98 finals. Pretty much game 3 of the '97 finals and game 5 of the '98 finals were the only games where he stepped up like an MVP. Stank it up in the rest. Taking fadeaways, throwing up air balls etc. And part of the reason he wasn't clutch was because the fadeaway was his go-to move. He didn't have a diverse post game like a Duncan, Hakeem etc. A lot of his points came from running the floor and getting a bucket in transition. He'd hit a hook or those flip shots here and there but nothing special.

3. Kevin Garnett. Probably the best "all around" PF I ever saw. Not a single thing he couldn't on the court. Extremely versatile. He was out there playing some PG when Cassell went down, played some SF in his early years and guarded some centers as well. Probably underrated in the clutch as well. Look no further than his game 7 against the Kings in '04, also led the Celtics in 4th quarter scoring in '08 and has multiple gamewinning defensive plays (blocks, deflections etc). Wasn't offensively dominant, however.

[Yung D-Will]

1. Charles Barkley. His offensive game was excellent. Better than someone like Duncan's but his defense is what puts him behind him. Sir Charles was lazy and didn't put effort at all times. He'd gamble on the defensive end and often didn't get back in time in transition. He had all the defensive tools to be a monster on the defensive end but he lacked the mindset. And at times he was too aggresive, gambled and it didn't pay off for him. Also, would end up taking a break and not getting back in transition. On the other hand, his offensive game MORE THAN MADE UP for his poor defense. The way this guy would dominate games by scoring and rebounding would leave the casual fan astonished. He was out there getting a near triple double in the WCF, 44/24 in the '93 game 7, dropping 56 on a Warrior team with a rookie CWebb and Gatling, manhandling Buck Williams and Robinson in the '95 playoffs and made a great comeback in the '99 Laker/Rockets playoff series. Also, injuries shortened his career. Barkley himself said he planned on retiring after the '94 or '95 season due to back and knee injuries. Even said he wasn't a "good player' by 1997/98. He had no flaws in his offensive game save for settling for too many 3s.

2. Karl Malone. Never liked him. Felt he didn't deserve either of his MVPs. Should've gone to MJ and Zo. But, I can't deny his superb conditioning, longevity and a bunch of accolades. That's pretty much what puts him above KG but there's no way I'm taking this choke-artist over Garnett when it comes to building a team. Regarding his game, it was overrated. He wasn't as good of a defensive player as listed. Off the top of my head, he was listed as all defensive first team in '98 but was he really better than Duncan or Rodman that year? Doubt it. He was good at stripping the ball, had quick hands and good instincts but not a game changer defensively. Not much of a shot blocker either. His mid range game was excellent in the mid 90s and he was a great scorer. Top 5 in the league for several years. Wasn't clutch though which is the biggest knock on him. He'd fade away when the big moment came. Stockton was the one making big plays. Take a look at the '97 and '98 finals. Pretty much game 3 of the '97 finals and game 5 of the '98 finals were the only games where he stepped up like an MVP. Stank it up in the rest. Taking fadeaways, throwing up air balls etc. And part of the reason he wasn't clutch was because the fadeaway was his go-to move. He didn't have a diverse post game like a Duncan, Hakeem etc. A lot of his points came from running the floor and getting a bucket in transition. He'd hit a hook or those flip shots here and there but nothing special.

3. Kevin Garnett. Probably the best "all around" PF I ever saw. Not a single thing he couldn't on the court. Extremely versatile. He was out there playing some PG when Cassell went down, played some SF in his early years and guarded some centers as well. Probably underrated in the clutch as well. Look no further than his game 7 against the Kings in '04, also led the Celtics in 4th quarter scoring in '08 and has multiple gamewinning defensive plays (blocks, deflections etc). Wasn't offensively dominant, however.


+1

[32jazz]

Better scorer, yes. Though in the half court it's closer than you think.
Better rebounder, no. What Barkley did at his size is more impressive but numbers wise KG is easily the better rebounder, and his numbers are at a much lower pace. Young Barkley better on offensive rebounding only because he was so explosive at rebounding his own miss, but overall KG was better.
Better passer, slight edge to Barkley only because when he was on the Suns, he was so elite at passing out of the post, some called him the best passer below the FT line in those years. KG isn't someone to overlook here, he has better assist numbers than him, could make plays facing up, read doubles well, was almost too willing to pass at times but if he was on a good team during his prime, we'd be lauding him for his unselfish ball distribution.

KG is one of the most versatile defenders to ever play at his size. His mobility allows him to cover a huge area of the floor that not many 6'11+ guys have ever been to able to do. Even today, on a bum knee at 34 years old, he still anchored the best defense in the game. Goes from shading Kobe to covering the pick and roll to protecting the rim. He is everywhere. Barkley has never, ever, come close to impacting games like that on the other end. Whatever offensive edge you feel Barkley holds, is easily made up by KG's defensive impact. Sssuming they are on equally talented championship level teams, I'm not sure Barkleys extra 2-3 extra points on scoring make up for what KG provides on defense (especially because with a decent cast, offense is usually taken care of).

I would take 2004 KG over either of them, but it's close. Barkley is probably the best all around offensively. Malone is the best scorer and one on one defender in the post. KG though is Barkley's offensive skill and versatility with elite team D that can anchor historically great defenses. Neither of them are "clutch", Barkley had a nice string of clutch moments in '93 so he might have the edge but there are other duds. KG doesn't "choke" so much as he doesn't turn up his aggression at the end of games (scoring wise). Malone well...lets not go there.

KG. ALL DAY.EVERYDAY.

These guys(under the delusion that KG is not in the same league as Sir sloppy slob & ShreK MAlone:rolleyes: ) were kids when Barkley/Malone played & nostalgia is strong here. Obviously these guys cannot get over the Dream Team era. In their pathetic minds no one shall ever surpass most of these guys.



Take KG all day over that fat slob Barkley who was nowhere near the inside defensive Force .(At times Barkley could be a slightly more explosive scorer & that is it). Malone neither is nowhere near as versatile as KG.

KG all day every

Barkley/Malone toss up. Skillwise I think Barkley is better than MAlone.

[cavsfanatic]

The internet
Ha ha

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Malone > Barkley > KG

[Harison]

Each one has qualities in his favor:

Malone - longevity, numbers - but a lot of his scoring was benefitted by playing alongside the all-time assist leader, Stockton and Malone choked in the playoffs.
To be fair, outside Malone and Stockton they didnt had a very solid team, coaching is good though.



Garnett - best defense of the 3 but can he carry a team in the playoffs?
KG almost singlehandedly won against better Kings team in '04, it was phenomenal clinching game if anyone havent seen it. Still KG was blamed for lack of deep post-season runs, and hypothetical "what if Garnett had a solid team?" was answered in '08, he led the team in the Playoffs in almost everything - anchoring All-time great defense, rebounding, scoring, you name it.

I guess that answers if KG can do it, even after his prime.



I have to say Duncan. He is a true team leader. Garnett is a phenomenal player with great physical abilities but I don't think he is mentally strong enough to be a team leader. If he would have stayed in Minessota I don't think he would ever win a ring. He did the right move by going to Boston because there is Paul Pierce who is a true team leader that scores in clutch moments.

Its ironic, because Garnett and Duncan clutch data over many seasons is very close, almost carbon copy. And while Pierce is definitely clutch too, it was Garnett who led Celtics in the clutch during '08 championship run as well. About mental strength - Celtics took over KGs mentality and we know the result - very physical, tough, all-hustle team, you cant become All-time great defensive team without it.



Barkley - defense wasn't great but not a choker and can carry a team in the playoffs.
How many rings Barkley has? He was phenomenal offensively, but didnt play a lick of defense, and we all know saying "Defense wins championships".



To me that's why Duncan is the clear cut greatest power forward ever - had the offense, defense, could carry a team (especially in the playoffs) and "clutchness," all of which resulted in 4 titles.
First of all, we have to assume Duncan is PF, since he played more time as center. And if we place him as PF, he is Top1 because of accolades and individual performance, without accolades though he wouldnt be clear-cut first, he didnt had highest peak either.

Duncan was a big reason Spurs won 4 titles, alongside great teams he had and one of the best coaches.

[TrueDiesel3]

Some of you criminally underrate Karl Malone. At his best he was the best PF ever.

All time, he's second behind Duncan, pretty comfortably too. I don't see any case for Charles or Garnett over him. He had better stats, more accomplished, and lets not even go into longevity.
At his best he was better than Duncan? Yeah, Rightttttttt :oldlol:

Anyways, here is how I would rank the three.....

1. Malone
2. Barkley
3. Garnett

All of them are choke artists in their own way though. Garnett wasn't really a choke artist, but he was just someone who was afraid of the big moment which basically does make him a choke artist. Malone and Barkley weren't so afraid of the big moment, they just never came through.

[Yung D-Will]

At his best he was better than Duncan? Yeah, Rightttttttt :oldlol:

Anyways, here is how I would rank the three.....

1. Malone
2. Barkley
3. Garnett

All of them are choke artists in their own way though. Garnett wasn't really a choke artist, but he was just someone who was afraid of the big moment which basically does make him a choke artist. Malone and Barkley weren't so afraid of the big moment, they just never came through.
lol

[Dontstop]

http://www.fansedge.com/Images/Product/33-40/33-40395-F.jpg


http://correcttimezone.com/2009/07/images/20090724_KarlMalone.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/revmyspace/freegraphics/sports/Karl_Malone_Wallpaper.jpg



http://organicfunny.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/malone.jpg

[Yung D-Will]

http://www.fansedge.com/Images/Product/33-40/33-40395-F.jpg


http://correcttimezone.com/2009/07/images/20090724_KarlMalone.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/revmyspace/freegraphics/sports/Karl_Malone_Wallpaper.jpg



http://organicfunny.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/malone.jpg

I'm stronger than him

Fact

[Dontstop]

I'm stronger then him

Fact


Than*


Prove it.

[FCN]

Duncan is the second best PF of all time. (although I am also of the camp that believes he is a center)

McHale is the best PF of all time, followed closely by Malone.

[miles berg]

Barkley then Malone then Nowitzki then McHale then KG

[lakers_forever]

Karl Malone. The guy who was all nba team first team for 11 straight seasons.

People underrate him because they just don't like him as a person. He was a better scorer and a better defender than Barkley. The only edge for Barkley is on the boards. .

And the Stockton thing. Please... Malone would be great at any team.

[bballer]

chuck

[Sampsonsimpson]

Well Garnett is the only one out of them with a ring, so by default Garnett > Malone and Barkley, the rest is just pointless arguing over stats.

[ginobli2311]

my list

1. KG
2. Malone
3. Barkley

Its very close between all of them. But KG proved (at the age of 32 that he could be the best player on a championship team....yes KG was the best player on the celtics...not pierce). But what ultimately puts KG ahead of the other 2 is his defense. Its simply light years ahead of both malone and barkely. defense wins in the nba....just like all sports and KG was simply a far superior defender than both malone and chuck.

[steve]

Bob Pettit.

[Need4Sheed]

You guys are all wrong, the second best PF was easily Rasheed Wallace, let's all hope he doesn't actually retire.

[AirJordan&Magic]

Barkleyis better then Garnett and it's not even close.
He was a better scorer, better rebounder and better passer.
I don't see how anyone can rank Garnett over Barkley

:oldlol: Why can't you see?

I personally have Charles Barkley over Garnett, but I don't know where you get this idea that "it isn't close".

The gap between Garnett & Barkley offensively is nowhere near as big as the gap between them defensively.

Prime Garnett on his best offensive days, like Barkley, was capable of giving you anywhere from 25-40 pts and 5-10 ast.
The difference is Barkley was more aggressive scoring wise than Garnett was, whereas Garnett was and still is passive player.

You can actually compare them offensively, but can you honestly compare them defensively?...

[AirJordan&Magic]

Barlkley could take over games offensively in ways that Garnett never could. Barkley's edge offensively is just as good as KG's edge defensively. They both can take over at those ends of the floor in ways the other guy couldn't.



Is this a case of overrating past legends and underrating future hall of famers? Or maybe Kevin Garnett's offense is being underrated?

Did anyone of you guys watch Charles Barkley during his playing time? Because the comments I am reading are laughable.

Charles Barkley was probably the most gfted offensively out of all the GOAT pf's, but to say his offensive edge is as good as Garnett's defensive edge is hilarious. Especially if you actually watched him.

The guy was a mediocre AT BEST defender. He didn't have good positioning on the interior, he was lazy & often messed up on defensive rotations, and he gambled too much.

[Yung D-Will]

Vote count

Garnett:7
Barkley:7
Malone:9

[Round Mound]

[B]Barkley is the Best PF Ever. Not even close

Barkley shot 58.13% Two-Point FG on 21.6 PPG on only 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG for his Season Career and 55.13% Two Point FG on 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG Only. He was the Shaq before Shaq.

He was easy the mosts difficult Forward to Guard in his Peek and he was called the "Zone Buster". Barkley was a "Better Rebounder" than All of them was well as "Pure Game Creator and Passer". Barkley recieved more double teams in his peeks than any of them and they changed the rules cause of him "3 Seconds Back to the Basket Rule". He is also the Greatest Stealing PF Ever.

Barkley is also the only PF to rank Top 10 in EFF, PER (Season and Play-Offs) and Statistical Plus/Minus. Jordan is the only Player after Barkley to be as Dominant and Efficient and Rank also Top 10 in EFF, PER (Season and Play-Offs) and Statistical Plus/Minus. Barkley outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings and it wasn`t till the 1995-96 season that Malone began getting an edge cause of Barkley

[Yung D-Will]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Barkley is the Best PF Ever. Not even close

Barkley shot 58.13% Two-Point FG on 21.6 PPG on only 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG for his Season Career and 55.13% Two Point FG on 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG Only. He was the Shaq before Shaq.

He was easy the mosts difficult Forward to Guard in his Peek and he was called the "Zone Buster". Barkley was a "Better Rebounder" than All of them was well as "Pure Game Creator and Passer". Barkley recieved more double teams in his peeks than any of them and they changed the rules cause of him "3 Seconds Back to the Basket Rule". He is also the Greatest Stealing PF Ever.

Barkley is also the only PF to rank Top 10 in EFF, PER (Season and Play-Offs) and Statistical Plus/Minus. Jordan is the only Player after Barkley to be as Dominant and Efficient and Rank also Top 10 in EFF, PER (Season and Play-Offs) and Statistical Plus/Minus. Barkley outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings and it wasn`t till the 1995-96 season that Malone began getting an edge cause of Barkley

[Yung D-Will]

Vote count

Garnett:7
Barkley:8
Malone:9

Updated

[Round Mound]

So your vote for second best Pf goes to Barkley?

Duncan

Third: Karl Malone

1-Barkley
2-Duncan
3-Malone

[Yung D-Will]

Duncan

Third: Karl Malone

1-Barkley
2-Duncan
3-Malone

That's not a choice.:oldlol:

[Round Mound]

That's not a choice.:oldlol:

For me it is :confusedshrug:

Anyone who saw ball in the 80s and early-mid 90s knows Barkley was better than Malone. Only the kids who saw the late 90s believe opposite

[Snoop_Cat]

Duncan
Garnett
Malone
Barkley

defense IS half the game after all....

[Yung D-Will]

Garnett:8
Barkley:8
Malone:9

[alexandreben]

Talking about the best PF, it has to go between Sir Charles and Iron Choker Mailman. They both were extremely explosive in the 80's. And.. He was my favorite PF before he became a donut...
http://i45.tinypic.com/33upxys.gif
http://i47.tinypic.com/2u7r2hd.gif
http://i50.tinypic.com/2qjcd1x.gif

When my favorite PF became a donut in his twilight, in the mean time, the choker mailman still kicking steadily, just without the explosive when he was young...besides choking on the line in the playoffs, if considering longevity scoring and one on one post defense, it has to be mailman.. depends on how much weight you value

BTW, in their twilight, they chose totally different sports... Sir Charles chose this:
http://www.sportsrubbish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/charles-barkley.jpg

and Mailman chose this:
http://0.tqn.com/d/prowrestling/1/0/l/A/-/-/hogan3.jpg

[Round Mound]

Talking about the best PF, it has to go between Sir Charles and Iron Choker Mailman. They both were extremely explosive in the 80's. And.. He was my favorite PF before he became a donut...
http://i45.tinypic.com/33upxys.gif
http://i47.tinypic.com/2u7r2hd.gif
http://i50.tinypic.com/2qjcd1x.gif

When my favorite PF became a donut in his twilight, in the mean time, the choker mailman still kicking steadily, just without the explosive when he was young...besides choking on the line in the playoffs, if considering longevity scoring and one on one post defense, it has to be mailman.. depends on how much weight you value

BTW, in their twilight, they chose totally different sports... Sir Charles chose this:
http://www.sportsrubbish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/charles-barkley.jpg

and Mailman chose this:
http://0.tqn.com/d/prowrestling/1/0/l/A/-/-/hogan3.jpg

Barkley owned Malone before injuries that even said by Bill Walton. True Malone stayed healthier but that has nothing to do with being a better player. Malone was slightly a better post defender and a FT shooter than Barkley. Other than that Barkley was better than Malone at everything else.

- As a Pure Scorer. Less FGAs and High FG% with 20 PPG. Highest Two-Point FG% in Season History for a PF. 2nd only to Shaq as a Focal Scorer.
- Rebounder
- Game Creator
- Passer
- Recieved and Needed More Double Teaming when Healthy
- Caused More Defensive Rotations, Double Teaming and Ilegal Defenses than any Forward of the 80s and early-mid 90s.
- Was called the "Zone Buster"
- They changed the Rules cause of him as Webber mentioned ("3 Second Back to the Basket")
- Higher B-Ball IQ
- Clutcher (actually clutch in the play-offs)
etc

[AirJordan&Magic]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Barkley is the Best PF Ever. Not even close

Barkley shot 58.13% Two-Point FG on 21.6 PPG on only 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG for his Season Career and 55.13% Two Point FG on 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG Only. He was the Shaq before Shaq.

He was easy the mosts difficult Forward to Guard in his Peek and he was called the "Zone Buster". Barkley was a "Better Rebounder" than All of them was well as "Pure Game Creator and Passer". Barkley recieved more double teams in his peeks than any of them and they changed the rules cause of him "3 Seconds Back to the Basket Rule". He is also the Greatest Stealing PF Ever.

Barkley is also the only PF to rank Top 10 in EFF, PER (Season and Play-Offs) and Statistical Plus/Minus. Jordan is the only Player after Barkley to be as Dominant and Efficient and Rank also Top 10 in EFF, PER (Season and Play-Offs) and Statistical Plus/Minus. Barkley outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings and it wasn`t till the 1995-96 season that Malone began getting an edge cause of Barkley

[EarlTheGoat]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Barkley is the Best PF Ever. Not even close

Barkley shot 58.13% Two-Point FG on 21.6 PPG on only 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG for his Season Career and 55.13% Two Point FG on 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG Only. He was the Shaq before Shaq.

He was easy the mosts difficult Forward to Guard in his Peek and he was called the "Zone Buster". Barkley was a "Better Rebounder" than All of them was well as "Pure Game Creator and Passer". Barkley recieved more double teams in his peeks than any of them and they changed the rules cause of him "3 Seconds Back to the Basket Rule". He is also the Greatest Stealing PF Ever.

Barkley is also the only PF to rank Top 10 in EFF, PER (Season and Play-Offs) and Statistical Plus/Minus. Jordan is the only Player after Barkley to be as Dominant and Efficient and Rank also Top 10 in EFF, PER (Season and Play-Offs) and Statistical Plus/Minus. Barkley outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings and it wasn`t till the 1995-96 season that Malone began getting an edge cause of Barkley

[JustinJDW]

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/karl-malone-and-tim-duncan.jpg

[Batz]

Garnett and quite easily imo. Even though I hate his guts.

[dyna]

Malone
Garnett/Barkley

[Round Mound]

I laugh when people use the "it isnt even close" to hype up their arguments. You know a guy called Tim Duncan?

You are only bringing up the stats who favor your player, like homers always do. Sorry, but but as an all-around player, Tim Duncan was more complete, a better defender, shot-blocker, rebounder and always more clutch.

Barkley was great, but Duncan is the best PF of all time.


[B]More clutch? Barkley did not play with the cast Duncan has had. KJ was the best player he played with and he was a "1st Drive-Score then Pass PG" unlike Parker, Gionobili etc whom where team oriented All-Stars. Not to mention D-Rob who was statistically the Best Defender for the Center Spot in the late 90s and early 2000s despite he did not take it to the offensive end like before do to injuries he still finished among the best in Defensive Rating etc.

BTW Barkley outplayed Duncan in their meetings as an age, knee injured and back crippled 34-36 year old. Barkley when pissed off could play great D too despite what many say he finished in the Top 7 in DRT when he played with a real center (that is Moses for his 1st two seasons, and Moses left for the 85-86 play-offs to Washington).

Barkley

[Gifted Mind]

Since we are talking All-Time, thus career-wise, I'd go with Karl Malone.

[Yung D-Will]

Garnett:9
Barkley:8
Malone:12

[itsGameTime]

Barkley
Malone
Garnett

in terms of dominancy, and in that order

[Yung D-Will]

Garnett:9
Barkley:9
Malone:12

[alexandreben]

Malone
Garnett/Barkley
can't argue with Tyler Durden:banana: :D though i'd rank Sir Charles over KG

[Yung D-Will]

Garnett:9
Barkley:9
Malone:13

[raptorfan_dr07]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/jameer_14/7%20-%20NBA%20Gallery/50%20Greatest/bobpettit.jpg

[Huh]

Karl Malone was a numbers machine that choked in the playoffs. Problem with him is that he always played with Stockton, so we don't know how much of his stats are inflated from playing with one of the best PGs of all time. We have seen Barkley and Garnett carry teams without much help.

Wilt was a numbers machine who choked in the playoffs....so what?

What's the farthest those teams got, with just KG and Barkley and nothing else? Yeah KG never did ANYTHING significant before the good ol' Boston trade.

It's ridiculous to just think that Malone couldn't have done anything had Stockton gotten hurt one year and say Eisley took the reins. KARL MALONE IS 2nd ON THE ALL-TIME SCORING LIST. You don't just stumble into that spot without any game, because you have a great PG next to you. You think every single shot he ever made was wide open and right at the rim?

Also, on a sidenote, that whole 'their numbers are inflated because they needed each other' argument is ridiculous. If Malone is 2nd on the all-time scoring list solely because he needed Stockton, why is Stockton never brought up as possibly the best PG of all-time?

OR if Stockton needed Malone so bad why isn't Malone brought up as possibly the best PF of all-time over Duncan? (PS: why do Spurs fans call Duncan a center, but then when arguing against Malone, Duncan is a PF?)

Anyway I'd like to know that. Replace Malone with Charles Barkley and Malone is still top 3 all-time in scoring and Stockton still absolutely shatters the assist record (and Magic had ALL those great all-time Lakers to throw to). Only difference is the Jazz might not make the Finals the first time.


Defensively - KG
Offensively - Barkley

Karl Malone is the 2nd leading scorer of all-time, does that count as 'offensively'?

Anyway it's Malone and it's not even a debate. There really is no case whatsoever.

KG has been to the Finals twice and won once, never getting close without Pierce and Allen (not entirely to his fault). One of the better interior defenders of the past couple decades when in his prime.

Barkley, one Finals appearance (or did he have two?), no rings. One of the best rebounders/scrappers ever. Decently polished on O (not sure of his #'s, don't really matter because of....)

....Malone, 2 appearances, no rings. 2 league MVP's. 2nd leading scorer of all-time...No argument really.

[New York Knicks]

1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. Malone

[Round Mound]

:oldlol: at "Barkely GOAT pf and it isn't even close".

Charles Barkley, Imo, was the most gifted power forward on the OFFENSIVE end of the floor. It's definitely arguable.

Offensive Rating ranks Barkley as the Best Offensive PF
2nd to Magic for Lead to Score Points Per Possesion of All Time
His 2-Point FG% is only comparable to Shaq as the Focal Scorer and Amount of Double Teaming He Recieved In his Prime (He was also called "The Zone Buster")

He was a great scorer, rebounder, passer, could run the floor well, and was a great playmaker. Sir Charles was EASILY the best passing pf of all time and was arguably the best scoring pf of all time as well (arguable with Karl Malone).

Barkley was a More "Efficient Scorer" in The Paint (2-Point FG% and FG% will agree). Also In the Play-Offs Barkley was clutcher.

But on his best days, he was average on the defensive end.


Ranked 7th in Defensive Rating when he had a Decent Defensive Center in "His Prime" 1985-86. Then Moses left in that years same play-offs. Malone had Mark Eaton and Ostertag to enormous dudes to "Anchor" and make it easier for him along Baily who was a Great 6`11 Defender capable of guarding faster SFs and PFs

He was a solid shot-blocker in his prime and played the passing lanes well for his position, those were about the only good things he did on the defensive end.

Barkley was Better. I Saw Thee Games from 1991 to 1995: year when Bark got injured and slowed down after that.

[Ikill]

Malone

[Pointguard]

1. Garnett would have flourished in all of their positions and none of them would have recognition in Minny. In fact if KG was on teams like '04 Pistons and '08 Celtics during his prime the whole ring distribution thing would be very different. Yeah, even Duncan would be second. KG had one of the most complete games ever. He was doing it all offensively (leading the league in efficiency and rebounds for like 4 years) and was the most versatile defenders as well. Still one of the best ever help and individual defenders.

2.A tremendous athelete. Wasn't much of a winner. Went to Houston and his basketball smarts went out the window. Said he retired because he couldn't guard the KG types anymore.

3. Malone. Didn't play hard when he was close to a ring.

[Round Mound]

Barkley also outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings from 85 to 95, before his back and knee injuries.

Even crippled he owned Duncan and Garnett ages 33-36-

[alexandreben]

Barkley also outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings from 85 to 95, before his back and knee injuries.

Even crippled he owned Duncan and Garnett ages 33-36-
True:cheers:

that's why i rank him over Mailman, though his longevity is a big question mark compare with Mailman...

and that's why I rank Malone over Duncan btw...

[Round Mound]

True:cheers:

that's why i rank him over Mailman, though his longevity is a big question mark compare with Mailman...

and that's why I rank Malone over Duncan btw...

:applause: I would rank Malone over Duncan if a player is needed in fast paced team and physical game as it was before too

[KobeDaMamba]

Barkley was overrated. Duncan, Malone, Mchale and kg were all better. Barkley was a no defense playing loser. Dont see how anyone could take him over those guys.

[TryToBeUnbias]

KG
Malone
Barkley

[Yung D-Will]

Garnett:10
Barkley:10
Malone:14

[Round Mound]

Barkley was overrated. Duncan, Malone, Mchale and kg were all better. Barkley was a no defense playing loser. Dont see how anyone could take him over those guys.

Kobe Fan ofcourse. You are just pissed because Barkley appears in the Top 10 in PER, EFF and Statistical Plus/Minus both play-offs and season while Kobe is far from that.

Charles dominated his era. Him and Hakeem where the 2nd Best Players after Jordan in the late 80s and early 90s

[AllenIverson3]

Tim Duncan
Karl Malone
Charles Malone
Kevin Garnett
Kevin McHale

[Yung D-Will]

Bumzqq

[Bigsmoke]

Karl Malone.

[Batz]

http://blog.newsok.com/bamsblog/files/2008/08/kevin-durant-dunk-1.jpg

YOU can see the similarities . I know I'm not crazy here
His nipples are familiar to you or something?

[Round Mound]

Malone was never in the level of a prime Barkley before injuries. Anyone alive in the 80s and early 90s knows this.

[SinJackal]

Man, that is a tough, tough question. Great thread though.

For me, it's a toss up between Malone and Barkley. I know Malone is hated by some fans for his off the court antics, or his elbows on the court, but there's no denying the guy was a consistant and great performer.

Barkley seems to be underrated sometimes since he's a silly fat guy now who makes dumb comments that make no sense. The dude was murdering people on the court though, and only failed to win titles because he played in a stacked era that got him knocked out by MJ's championship year Bulls twice, Hakeem's championship Rockets twice, DRob's Spurs once, Malone's Finals Jazz twice, and Shaq's Lakers on his last run. :facepalm

The guy just ran into a buzzsaw in the playoffs every year during a tough decade.

All that said. . .I'm gonna go with Barkley as my #2, and not Malone. I certainly won't argue with anyone who does pick Malone, since that dude was a scoring machine, who beat down the best defenders in the NBA. I'm always partial to a guy who can completely decimate the other team on the boards as well as score at a high rate and on an extremely high %. Which leads me to give my love to Sir Charles here. Best undersized PF of all time. I think he's the best "short" rebounder too. Dude was all heart. Just had bad luck.

KG's 4th to me. But by no means do I think he's anywhere close to less than elite and one of the best players ever.



Karl Malone was a numbers machine that choked in the playoffs. Problem with him is that he always played with Stockton, so we don't know how much of his stats are inflated from playing with one of the best PGs of all time. We have seen Barkley and Garnett carry teams without much help.

O_O Malone was great in the playoffs, the guy stepped up his game when he got there. He scored all over the best centers of the 90s, and ripped rebounds away from them too.

[Yung D-Will]

Garnett:10
Barkley:11
Malone:16

[Yung D-Will]

[B]Garnett 19.8/10.8/4.2/1.6
# NBA Champion (2008)
# NBA Most Valuable Player (2004)
# NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2008)
# 13

[jlauber]

I'll take the easy road on this one...

ALL three were great. There are great arguments for each of them, too.

And, I think when you get the level of these guys, you couldn't go wrong with taking any of them.

BTW, same applies to the great centers. There is NO clear-cut better center when you are dealing with Kareem, Shaq, Russell, Wilt...and I am going to add Duncan to that list. I have always viewed him more as a center,at least defensively, although he could clearly play the PF position. Which makes him even more valuable.

Sorry...I don't mean to hijack the OP...but when you are dealing with these three players, well, it would be like judging the Miss Universe contest. I think most of us would be happy with the fifth runner-up.

[Yung D-Will]

I'll take the easy road on this one...

ALL three were great. There are great arguments for each of them, too.

And, I think when you get the level of these guys, you couldn't go wrong with taking any of them.

BTW, same applies to the great centers. There is NO clear-cut better center when you are dealing with Kareem, Shaq, Russell, Wilt...and I am going to add Duncan to that list. I have always viewed him more as a center,at least defensively, although he could clearly play the PF position. Which makes him even more valuable.

Sorry...I don't mean to hijack the OP...but when you are dealing with these three players, well, it would be like judging the Miss Universe contest. I think most of us would be happy with the fifth runner-up.



:no:

http://lolabrigada.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/hakeem_olajuwon.jpg

[jlauber]

:no:

http://lolabrigada.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/hakeem_olajuwon.jpg

Ok...I can see an argument for Hakeem, too. I know that if I were running a team, and he was "all that was left"...I would be ecstatic to get him.

[Round Mound]

[QUOTE=Yung D-Will][B]Garnett 19.8/10.8/4.2/1.6
# NBA Champion (2008)
# NBA Most Valuable Player (2004)
# NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2008)
# 13

[Yung D-Will]

What really happened on the court can never be told based solely on advanced statistics

[Round Mound]

What really happened on the court can never be told based solely on advanced statistics

This kind yeah. It coincidences with everything i saw

Jordan, Hakeem and Barkley as the best of the late 80s and early 90s

Its raw broken down proof of what happened.

Now wonder the GOAT Jordan is at Top in most of these Impact and Eficiency Per Minute broken downs (PER, +/-). And Wilt as the all around skill (EFF) force as GOAT

Also i saw it live Barkley was better than Malone till injuries 1985-1995.

[Yung D-Will]

Some of you criminally underrate Karl Malone. At his best he was the best PF ever.

All time, he's second behind Duncan, pretty comfortably too. I don't see any case for Charles or Garnett over him. He had better stats, more accomplished, and lets not even go into longevity.

A bit closed minded are we.

[Yung D-Will]

This kind yeah. It coincidences with everything i saw

Jordan, Hakeem and Barkley as the best of the late 80s and early 90s

Its raw broken down proof of what happened.

Now wonder the GOAT Jordan is at Top in most of these Impact and Eficiency Per Minute broken downs (PER, +/-). And Wilt as the all around skill (EFF) force as GOAT

Also i saw it live Barkley was better than Malone till injuries 1985-1995.

I'm not saying that Barkley isn't better then Malone.

I'm saying Tim Duncan not being in the top five for efficiency and production stats isn't gonna change how good he is as a player.

[magnax1]

Mr. Tim Duncan is the second best PF of all time.

[Yung D-Will]

Mr. Tim Duncan is the second best PF of all time.
So Should I put you down for Garnett :lol

[magnax1]

So Should I put you down for Garnett :lol
Nope. Duncan.
:cheers:

[Yung D-Will]

Nope. Duncan.
:cheers:


Lol I'll make a mental note of it so it doesn't disrupt my tally.

[Skep]

Karl Malone and its not even a debate.


If he played in a bigger market people would easily be declaring him the GOAT PF.

[Yung D-Will]

Karl Malone and its not even a debate.


If he played in a bigger market people would easily be declaring him the GOAT PF.


For some reason I doubt playing in a small market is the reason he's not consider that G.O.A.T PF

Garnett:11
Barkley:11
Malone:17

[Skep]

For some reason I doubt playing in a small market is the reason he's not consider that G.O.A.T PF

Garnett:10
Barkley:11
Malone:17


That and people holding a grudge against him for his physical/dirty play and what happened when he was in Louisiana.

None of the reasons are basketball related.

And atleast in this one they cant use the stupid "ring debate" because barkley failed to do it.

[step_back]

The big ticket gets my vote. Probably the most versatile PF of all time.

[Yung D-Will]

Garnett:12
Barkley:11
Malone:17

[magnax1]

Garnett:12
Barkley:11
Malone:17
Duncan 1 + Maybe Sir Charles (I think he says Malone)

[Yung D-Will]

The thread was only a comparison between the three. Last time it turned out with 20 post saying Duncan is the best who cares. So the thread title eliminates that possibility lol.


So I put you down as KG and Charles down as Barkley since I'm pretty sure that's who you guys think are the best out of three.

[G.O.A.T]

The correct answer is

D) None of the Above

Bob Pettit is the only other power forward (besides Duncan) with Multiple MVP's and a Title.

[Yung D-Will]

The correct answer is

D) None of the Above

Bob Pettit is the only other power forward (besides Duncan) with Multiple MVP's and a Title.


G.O.A.T always with the curve ball :bowdown:

[Poochymama]

The correct answer is

D) None of the Above

Bob Pettit is the only other power forward (besides Duncan) with Multiple MVP's and a Title.

Problem with that is era. If Pettit played during Jordan's era, he would have 0 MVP's and 0 titles, unless of course he played for the bulls, in which case he would have titles.

[G.O.A.T]

Problem with that is era. If Pettit played during Jordan's era, he would have 0 MVP's and 0 titles, unless of course he played for the bulls, in which case he would have titles.

Problem with this is it's opinion. Whereas my argument actually is based on things that actually happened.

Lucky for Pettit and his male pattern baldness Jordan did not have a time machine.

[beermonsteroo]

Both Barkley and Malone are better then Duncan by the way. Duncan was more succesful, but as individual players i would take a prime Barkley or Malone over Duncan any day

[magnax1]

I agree with Petit, the only problem is that I've never seen him play at all. I always try to leave him and Mikan out of the list because I've never seen either play. He and Wilt are the only players to stop Russell's Celtics, so he must've been pretty good.

[SCdac]

Both Barkley and Malone are better then Duncan by the way. Duncan was more succesful, but as individual players i would take a prime Barkley or Malone over Duncan any day

Just out of curiosity...

did you factor in the 17-8 record and 25 ppg/11 rpg/2.7 bpg averages Duncan holds in his head-to-head battles versus Malone?

Duncan even dropped a 46 point / 14 rebound game on the 01 Jazz one time. He is no slouch.

Karl was not in 20's or anything at the time, but the majority of those H2H matches were when Malone was still with the Jazz and some of them during his MVP seasons (97 and 99).

[Poochymama]

Problem with this is it's opinion. Whereas my argument actually is based on things that actually happened.

Lucky for Pettit and his male pattern baldness Jordan did not have a time machine.

I see what you're saying, but any sensible person knows that Pettit wasn't a good enough player to get MVP over Jordan.

[PowerGlove]

Who's the best PF of all time?

[Yung D-Will]

Who's the best PF of all time?

That Black guy.

[PowerGlove]

That Black guy.
:oldlol:

Duncan is more of a center to me.

[magnax1]

If Duncan can be considered a center, so can Karl Malone. He also started center for a year or two, and Sloan started him at center in the playoffs quite often.
Neither should be considered a center. They both started PF the vast majority of their careers, and usually guarded the opposing PF. A big PF=/=C

[SCdac]

Duncan was playing predominantly power forward position even 10 years into his career alongside average players Rasho and Nazr Mohammed, who are more true centers than TD. Need not look at defining one's position by what they "play like", and need look at the position they're annually playing. Dirk plays more like a perimeter player, a smaller forward, but he's not. Players can change the way a position is perceived, and I don't even think TD has done that necessarily. He's not the first power forward to play mainly out of the post, not at all.

[G.O.A.T]

I see what you're saying, but any sensible person knows that Pettit wasn't a good enough player to get MVP over Jordan.

Disagree. A sensible person knows that they played in totally different eras and to try and project how one guy would do in another era involves far too many factors for anyone to accurate balance and adjust for.

Barkley got an MVP over Jordan, he was not the same level guy as Pettit based on stats, playoff success or individual awards. Sure if I were to watch both of them play I'd come away more impressed with Barkley because of his evolved skills and physical prowess, but if I looked into I'd realize that Pettit was the one whose accomplishments were greater relative to the worlds greatest players while he was playing.

[jlauber]

I agree that Pettit should be mentioned along with Duncan and other's...but I am amazed that Jerry Lucas seldom gets acknowledged. Too bad there is so little footage of him available. Aside from Wilt, who did it EIGHT times, Lucas is the ONLY other player in NBA history to post TWO 20-20 seasons. And, as great as those numbers were, the assumption would be that he was a banger, who scored near the basket. I have said it before, but I would put a prime Lucas up against Bird in a long-distance shoot-out. I went to a Warrior-Knick game in the early 70's, and during the pre-game shoot-around, Lucas couldn't miss...and he was firing from between the circles (at least 25 ft.) The term "Lucas Lay-Up" was coined in his honor.

He not only had those 20-20 seasons, but he had seasons of over 50% shooting, in an era of .440 leagues.

[Yung D-Will]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xHpXIQzJsY

[jlauber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xHpXIQzJsY

Exellent post. You at least get a glimpse of his shooting ability. I loved that hook shot from the FT line.

[Willkill24]

Karl Malone is the best Pf ever and
Duncan is a center

[dyna]

Malone

[Round Mound]

Disagree. A sensible person knows that they played in totally different eras and to try and project how one guy would do in another era involves far too many factors for anyone to accurate balance and adjust for.

Barkley got an MVP over Jordan, he was not the same level guy as Pettit based on stats, playoff success or individual awards. Sure if I were to watch both of them play I'd come away more impressed with Barkley because of his evolved skills and physical prowess, but if I looked into I'd realize that Pettit was the one whose accomplishments were greater relative to the worlds greatest players while he was playing.

Petit was good for his time but it would be funny to watch him trying to guard Barkley.

Barkley would cause Havoc in the 60s and 70s with the finnest 2-Point Game in NBA History.

Barkley was too powerfull, skilled, athletic, quick and potent for any forward ever to guard.

Barkley was also stolen from the 1990 MVP thanks to the Media Hate

Barkley`s PER, EFF and +/- Is Top 10 All Time

[Round Mound]

Karl Malone is the best Pf ever and
Duncan is a center

Barkley was better than Malone before injuries. Everyone who was alive in and saw the game in the 80s and early mid 90s knows this

Barkley outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings 1985-1995 and had a higher EFF, PER (Season and Play-Offs) and +/- All Time

Barkley is the GOAT PF and only Duncan was as Efficient and Dominant

[Papaya Petee]

We get it RoundMound, advanced broken down "raw" stats symbolize that Barkley is GOAT PF.

Common sence and actually enjoying a sport not math class say that Tim Duncan is GOAT PF.

Second place goes to Karl Malone

[Yung D-Will]

2-xxxxxxxxxx

[kobelamarjackson]

This one is easy.
Malone.

[Round Mound]

We get it RoundMound, advanced broken down "raw" stats symbolize that Barkley is GOAT PF.

Common sence and actually enjoying a sport not math class say that Tim Duncan is GOAT PF.

Second place goes to Karl Malone

Was Karl Malone a better Pure Scorer because he scored more? No!

*Barkley shot way higher 2-Point FG (58.13% on 21.6 PPG and 55.13% on 22.5 PPG in the play-offs) and had a higher overal FG% while scoring just 2-points lesser).

-Malone shot 3-5 FGAs More PG
-Malone scored at 46% FG in the Play-Offs

Was Malone a better Rebounder? Not even close!

Was Malone a better Assister? No!

Was Malone a better Game Creator? Not even close!

Was Malone as Skilled Post Player? Not even close!

Was Malone a better Fundamental sound player? Not even close!

Was Malone a better Ball handler? Not even close!

Was Malone doubled in the mid range game more than Barkley? No!

Was Malone clutcher? Not even close!

*Malone`s level declined in the play-offs Barkley`s wrose (PER will agree too)

Malone was a better man to man defender? Yes slightly...Defensive Rating says so

Was Barkley a Better Offensive Player? Yes Offensive Player says so by a large margin!

*Not to mention possesion per lead to point where Barkley is 2nd All Time behined Magic

Barkley was a Better Team Defender, Stealer and Shot Blocker!

Did Malone need rule changes? No, Barkley did.

Barkley outplayed Malone for 10 straight years before back injuries. Then after that while Barkaley wasn`t half the player he was before Malone got better for 4 years.

Barkley`s PER Season and Play-Offs > Malone`s
Barkley`s EFF > Malone`s
Barkley`s +/- > Malone`s

Longevity is the only thing Malone has over Barkley and yes popularity and love by the Media in the 90's while Barkley was hated so much that 2 votes wen`t against the whole world to not put him in the top 3 for MVPs in 1990

Malone lived of Stockton

Barkley did things on his own in ways more dominant and efficient

[G.O.A.T]

@ Round Mound

I love Charles Barkley his Suns and Rockets teams were my favorite teams of the 1990's era between the two Piston runs.

But you almost ruin him for me without your over the top assesments.

He was very good and is arguablly a better player than Malone and Garnett despite the fact that those two have MUCH better resumes at first glance.

Barkley put up great stats in an era that fit him perfectly but never came close to a title except in 1993 when Kevin Johnson's poor play in the first two games at home put Phoenix behind the eight ball.

A great player, one of the most entertaining ever to watch, but not an all-time great.

As for 1990, yes the media stole it, but another look at the numbers and the postseason suggest it probably should have been Michael Jordan's anyway more than his or Magic's.

[mayo'sgrizz]

Karl Malone and it isn't even close.

this ^^^^^^ /thread not even fuggin close whatsoever. AGRREED!

[DwadeOverLebron]

in there primes barkley would be the superior player i would say but with the over all body of work throughout a career malone was overall more consistent, so who's the better pf? i guess its just a matter of opinion but ill say this barkley prime and malone prime would eat kg prime up gauranteed!

[G-train]

I'll go with Malone. A notch above Barkley at everything except maybe ball handling, spitting on children and throwing people through glass. However Malone counters that with underage sex.

[AK47DR91]

Malone
Garnett
Barkley

[Round Mound]

@ Round Mound

I love Charles Barkley his Suns and Rockets teams were my favorite teams of the 1990's era between the two Piston runs.

But you almost ruin him for me without your over the top assesments.

He was very good and is arguablly a better player than Malone and Garnett despite the fact that those two have MUCH better resumes at first glance.

Barkley put up great stats in an era that fit him perfectly but never came close to a title except in 1993 when Kevin Johnson's poor play in the first two games at home put Phoenix behind the eight ball.

A great player, one of the most entertaining ever to watch, but not an all-time great.

As for 1990, yes the media stole it, but another look at the numbers and the postseason suggest it probably should have been Michael Jordan's anyway more than his or Magic's.

So Russell has a better resume than Jordan was he betterr? :no: Just look at the skills. Also in terms what really happened on court PER, EFF and +/- clearly indicates Barkley was more dominant than both and also more efficient. This is not MVP votings, All NBA Teams and Media Fanship...This is Reality of What Happened at Court While U Watched: IMPACT (Barkley healthy 85-95)

Those stats demonstrate reality and im glad i found them because i always said that Jordan, Hakeem and Barkley where the best in the late 80s and early 90s BEFORE ALL OF THESE STATS (i was saying this by 1995) and it happens to be exact.

No Pf was guarded with more cuastion and defensive rotationsthan than Barkley.

No Pf recieved more Double Teaming 12-15 Ft Away from the Rim

The "5 Second Back to the Basket Rule" was indeed for Barkley.

He recieved way more double teaming and he shot this in the 2-Point Region.

58.13% on 21.6 PPG on 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG
55.13% on 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG

That is he was a better PURE SCORER than Malone. Period!

1-Barkley`s 2-Point FG% is

58% (Season) and 55% (Play-Offs Season)

He did that 5-6 Times (and around and 64% twice over 22 and 24 PPG)

2-Only Player to Score 20 + PPG on 60% + 2-Point FG% in the last 19 Years Not Named Shaq

http://www.rootzoo.com/articles/view/NBA-Basketball/General/UBJSC-4-A-Basketball-Analytics-Primer_3549

Putting it together: Offensive Rating. By now, you're probably impatient for a number that tells us how efficient a player is overall with the possessions that he uses, and the answer comes in the form of Dean Oliver's Offensive Rating (OR). The formula is a bit complicated to reproduce here (I refer you to Oliver's excellent Basketball on Paper for its full derivation), but it suffices to say that Offensive Rating provides a rating of how many points a player scores per 100 possessions that he uses while on the floor. The league's typical rating has varied throughout history, but today stands at around 107.

The best OR belong to jump-shooting guards and, to a lesser extent, high-percentage post players. The career leaders are Steve Kerr (122.06), Reggie Miller (121.48), Magic Johnson (120.79), John Stockton (120.55), and Kiki Vandeweghe (119.49).

In general, the more possessions that a player uses, the lower we expect his OR to be, because player who use more possessions have to use more possessions in precarious situations.

If a player has a high career Usage Rate and a high OR, that indicates that he is a monster on offense. Magic Johnson falls into this category, as does Charles Barkley (119.31), Adran Dantley (118.40), the incomparable Michael Jordan (who, with the highest career Usage Rate, had a career OR of 117.97, the 13th best in history), and Dirk Nowitzki (117.80).[/B]

Ofcourse over Duncan and Garnett

Then Rebounding. Barkley wins

Game Creating. Barkley wins over Both

Passing: He was the Best Passing PF. And i don`t mean length to get assist Barkley would set his teamates up so well and they would miss his shots because he never had the offensive schemes with Better Frontliners like Malone did with Baily and latter on better fundamental players, ofcourse Stockton setting him up pff

*Barkley would have owned if he was set up by Stockton because he was a better versatile player and superior Pure Scorer.

If you wan`t Win Share..:Barkley had a superior one to Malone till 1996 (having weaker casts over his career)

Stealing: Barkley is arguably the Best Steeling PF Ever
Great Team Defender

The only thing Garnett and Malone where better was Man to Man Defense.

Barkley`s resume Offensive and difference of ORT is WAY higher than Malone`s while Malone was slightly a Better Man to Man Defender. DRT shows slightly only.

Barkley was a Better Shot Blocker than Malone too.

Duncan was the one that was a Total Better Man to Man Defender and Shot Blocker as was Garnett too but Offensively he is not close to even Malone or Duncan (Malone because was part of a system whose ORT is inflated. Had he not played with Stockton it would have been lower).

Its Barkley vs Duncan here in Reality: EFF, PER and Statistical Plus/Minus

Oh and Malone shot 46& FG in the Play-Offs for 24.7 PPG and 47% Two-Point FG for 24.5 PPG while Barkley shot 51% for 23.0 PPG and yes an insane 55.13% Two-Pioint FG for 22.5 PPG.

-All This Taking Less FGAs PG than Malone.

= Way Effective Scorer "With No System Designed For Him Only"

Barkley was also more skilled at all of this than All of Them

-Post Play
-Mid Range Shooting
-1 on 1 Drives and Power Moves
-Spint Moves
-Ballhandling
-Coast to Coats
-Creating
-Causing Missmatches

etc

Oh and Barkley outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings before his injuries. Ofcourse the Media (who hated him in the 80s and early 90s) had it made this to never show up (Walton did not forget ofcourse by mentioning it)

He also outplayed Garnett at ages 32-36 and outplayed Duncan at ages 34-36.

Barkley is clearly statistically (not raw or nice looking some up of stats or votes) better than All Pfs but "maybe" Duncan. As Jordan is the Best Ever in the same way.

[jlauber]

So Russell has a better resume than Jordan was he betterr? :no: Just look at the skills. Also in terms what really happened on court PER, EFF and +/- clearly indicates Barkley was more dominant than both and also more efficient. This is not MVP votings, All NBA Teams and Media Fanship.

Those stats demonstrate reality and im glad i found them because i always said that Jordan, Hakeem and Barkley where the best in the late 80s and early 90s and it happens to be exact.

No Pf was guarded with more cuastion and defensive rotationsthan Barkley.

The "5 Second Back to the Basket Rule" was indeed for Barkley.

He recieved way more double teaming and he shot this in the 2-Point Region.

58.13% on 21.6 PPG on 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG
55.13% on 22.5 PPG on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG

That is he was a better PURE SCORER than Malone
Ofcourse over Duncan and Garnett

Then Rebounding. Barkley wins

Game Creating. Barkley wins over Both

Passing: He was the Best Passing PF. And i don`t mean length to get assist Barkley would set his teamates up so well and they would miss his shots because he never the offensive schemes with better Frontliners like Malone did with Baily and latter on better fundamental players, ofcourse Stockton setting him up pff Barkley would have owned if he was set up by Stockton because he was a better versatile player.

If you wan`t Win Share..:Barkley had a superior one to Malone till 1995 (having weaker casts over his career)

Stealing: Barkley is arguably the Best Steeling PF Ever
Great Team Defender

The only thing Garnett and Malone where better was Man to Man Defense.

Barkley`s resule and difference of ORT is way higher than Malone`s while Malone was slightly a Better Man to Man Defender. DRT shows slightly.

Barkley was a Better Shot Blocker than Malone too.

Duncan was the one that was a Total Better Man to Man Defender and Shot Blocker but Offensively he is not close (not even Malone because he was part of a system whose ORT is inflated. Had he not played with Stockton it would have been lower).

Its Barkley vs Duncan here in Reality: EFF, PER and Statistical Plus/Minus

Oh and Malone shot 46& FG in the Play-Offs for 24.7 PPG and 47% Two-Point FG for 24.5 PPG while Barkley shot 51% for 23.0 PPG and yes an insane 55.13% for 22.5 PPG.

Taking Less FGAs PG than Malone.

Way Effective Scorer "With No System Designed For Him Only"

Barkley was also more skilled at all of this than All of Them

-Post Play
-Mid Range Shooting
-1 on 1 Drives and Power Moves
-Ballhandling
-Coast to Coats
-Creating
-Causing Missmatches

etc

Oh and Barkley outplayed Malone for 70% of their meetings before his injuries. Ofcourse the Media (who hated him in the 80s and early 90s) had it made this to never show up (Walton did not forget ofcourse by mentioning it)

He also outplayed Garnett at ages 32-36 and outplayed Duncan at ages 34-36.

Barkley is clearly statistically (not raw or nice looking some up of stats) better than All Pfs but "maybe" Duncan. As Jordan is the Best Ever.

You do do a great job of backing up your points...as well as anyone on this forum. I applaud you for that.

[Yung D-Will]

@ Round Mound

I love Charles Barkley his Suns and Rockets teams were my favorite teams of the 1990's era between the two Piston runs.

But you almost ruin him for me without your over the top assesments.

He was very good and is arguablly a better player than Malone and Garnett despite the fact that those two have MUCH better resumes at first glance.

Barkley put up great stats in an era that fit him perfectly but never came close to a title except in 1993 when Kevin Johnson's poor play in the first two games at home put Phoenix behind the eight ball.

A great player, one of the most entertaining ever to watch, but not an all-time great.

As for 1990, yes the media stole it, but another look at the numbers and the postseason suggest it probably should have been Michael Jordan's anyway more than his or Magic's.

Yea Round Mound made me do more research on Barkley and watch more games so I saw why some people consider him a better player then Malone.

That's what I saw on the court. It had nothing to do with advance stats and advance stats aren't gonna suddenly make me change my mind on the topic.

[jlauber]

Yea Round Mound made me do more research on Barkley and watch more games so I saw why some people consider him a better player then Malone.

That's what I saw on the court. It had nothing to do with advance stats and advance stats aren't gonna suddenly make me change my mind on the topic.

Once again, I applaud Round Mound's research, but ultimately it is hard to argue with what your eyes tell you. I didn't need stats to tell me that Koufax was as dominating a pitcher as there ever was. I didn't need to see the defensive stats when the '85 Bears were TERRORIZING offenses. Ultimately, stats can only tell you so much, but your EYES can tell you much more.

[magnax1]

I think that Prime Barkley was considerably better then Malone, but the more I look at Malone's 20 years of all star play, its hard for me to say that Barkley had a better career. Definitely a better peak though.

[Yung D-Will]

I'll go with Malone. A notch above Barkley at everything except maybe ball handling, spitting on children and throwing people through glass. However Malone counters that with underage sex.

Lol did you just imply Malone is a better rebounder then Barkley?