LeBron to the Heat, a b*tch move!

[game385]

Did Magic go play with Bird? Did Barkley or Malone try to play with Michael? Hell, did Michael try to go play with Magic prior to 91? Or maybe a better question is, had the opportunity ever presented itself during the prime of their playing careers, would they? I sincerely believe that the answer to that question is not just no, but "Hell No!" Even Kobe wanted to prove himself as a leader & champion beyond Shaq's shadow.

Of course we won't know his plans until tomorrow night, but today for the sake of argument going to Miami would be the biggest hit to LeBron's brand and his all-time legacy.

Regardless of how many championships they win, LeBron in Miami (w/ Wade & Bosh) never garners the same level of respect or admiration as Kobe let alone MJ.

Wade should be his rival (even if they're friends off the court). Fleeing to Miami to go play with a player so close in talent is an unjustifiable b*tch move. It screams not only can I not get it done alone (b/c no-one ever really does) but I can't get it done being the man at all.

[bagelred]

Yup

[poido123]

Did Magic go play with Bird? Did Barkley or Malone try to play with Michael? Hell, did Michael try to go play with Magic prior to 91? Or maybe a better question is, had the opportunity ever presented itself during the prime of their playing careers, would they? I sincerely believe that the answer to that questions is not just no, but "Hell No!" Even Kobe wanted to prove himself as a leader & champion beyond Shaq's shadow.

Of course we won't know his plans until tomorrow night, but today for the sake of argument going to Miami would be the biggest hit to LeBron's brand and his all-time legacy.

Regardless of how many championships they win, LeBron in Miami (w/ Wade & Bosh) never garners the same level of respect or admiration as Kobe let alone MJ.

Wade should be his rival (even if they're friends off the court). Fleeing to Miami to go play with a player so close in talent is an unjustifiable b*tch move. It screams not only can I not get it done alone (b/c no-one ever really does) but I can't get it done being the man at all.

yep. think everyone is thinking same thing, including heat fans, as a bulls fan, even i dont want to see us sign bron and boozer...

[sixerfan82]

It is a ***** move, but it's not all his fault, no one has had the balls to put their foot down on his throat and say "no".

And there's about 4 coaches that can do that.

1 is in LA
1 is in SA
1 is done
and the last in is Miami

So guess where LeBron is going...

Say goodbye to your legacy LeBron

[artificial]

I hate this phrase, it's overused and washed up. Still...














http://telepromptedanthems.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/u-mad1.jpg

[Lebron23]

It is a ***** move, but it's not all his fault, no one has had the balls to put their foot down on his throat and say "no".

And there's about 4 coaches that can do that.

1 is in LA
1 is in SA
1 is done
and the last in is Miami

So guess where LeBron is going...

Say goodbye to your legacy LeBron


Wilt Chamberlain played with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. As much as I want to see LeBron kick Kobe's @$$ in the 2011 NBA Finals, and send him into retirement. I don't want to see LeBron sign with the Miami Heat.

A Wade vs LeBron playoffs series = ratings. The League needs a new rivalry in the Eastern Conference.

[niko]

The net owner said it real well. It's good for Lebron in terms of titles, but it would weaken the brand "Lebron". i agree 100%. Basically, Lebron couldn't win unless he went to the superteam. If he does that, I would lose a lot of respect for him. It's basically him thinking "what is the easiest course for me to win a title". Not which team would be best for him to lead to a title.

Kobe would shoot up in stature 1000%. And if Kobe's Lakers beat that team in a finals, the Kobe/Lebron debate would be over. Forever.

No hate, Heat fan don't need to think like this of course - they should just enjoy it. That's not the point.

[SoCalMike]

Wilt Chamberlain played with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor.

you can't use that example.. different era, different teams, different everything.



:pimp:

[game385]

I hate this phrase, it's overused and washed up. Still...














http://telepromptedanthems.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/u-mad1.jpg

No. Not at all, but it had to be said.

[bagelred]

Basically, the Heat "Superteam" would be expected to win a title every year. If not, its a tremendous fail. Can you imagine Kobe beating the Heat in the Finals? Kobe's legacy would shoot thru the roof. Even I would be rooting for Kobe, and I don't even like him.

However, I can see this 2003 class doing that. They need self congratulations more than the old school guys. Bird, Magic, Jordan would LAUGH at the notion to pair up all together. Not these guys....

[SoCalMike]

Basically, the Heat "Superteam" would be expected to win a title every year. If not, its a tremendous fail. Can you imagine Kobe beating the Heat in the Finals? Kobe's legacy would shoot thru the roof.

However, I can see this 2003 class doing that. They need self congratulations more than the old school guys. Bird, Magic, Jordan would LAUGH at the notion to pair up all together. Not these guys....

kobe beating the heat? what about the lakers?

but yeah, if that team is assembled, they better deliver or it will be an epic failure of huge proportions.


:pimp:

[game385]

Yeah, and honestly if it happened. I don't think that they do beat the Lakers next year.

[PistonsFan#21]

you can't use that example.. different era, different teams, different everything.



:pimp:

yeah it was Ok to do it back then but not anymore. right? Or maybe is it just because they were playing for L.A.? GTFO

[Lebron23]

Yeah, and honestly if it happened. I don't think that they do beat the Lakers next year.


How old is Kobe Bryant next season? Wade, LeBron, and Bosh needs to stop playing basketball if they couldn't beat a 33 yrs.old NBA Player.

I still don't think LeBron would sign with the Miami Heat.

[mamba24]

Basically, the Heat "Superteam" would be expected to win a title every year. If not, its a tremendous fail. Can you imagine Kobe beating the Heat in the Finals? Kobe's legacy would shoot thru the roof. Even I would be rooting for Kobe, and I don't even like him.

However, I can see this 2003 class doing that. They need self congratulations more than the old school guys. Bird, Magic, Jordan would LAUGH at the notion to pair up all together. Not these guys....

Point 1 : they pair up means they spilt their career averages. they all cant average 28ppg.

Bosh with either is a good pair...both with bosh? bad idea.

And yes...if they get to the finals and loose to the lakers its over...If the lakers lost it would not be as bad as them losing. Also i still believe the lakers can beat them...

Pau Gasol, ron Artest, Lamar, Steve Blake, kobe, Bynum, fisher...lol champions

vs 3 superstars and a team of scrubs...is bosh going to out rebound the laker bigs?

Is lebron and wade going to take turns in possesion getting to the rim?

BRING IT

[Dwade305]

I think the whole Lakers team is a B*tch move", same thing with the Celtics over the past 2 years.
These bullshit trades creating these teams are B*tch moves too.

So I guess it evens things out.

[SoCalMike]

yeah it was Ok to do it back then but not anymore. right? Or maybe is it just because they were playing for L.A.? GTFO

uh no dumbshyt.. it applies across the board... do you even know what years those three played together? better go look that up kid. it was a long time before you were born.



:pimp:

[SoCalMike]

I think the whole Lakers team is a B*tch move", same thing with the Celtics over the past 2 years.
These bullshit trades creating these teams are B*tch moves too.

So I guess it evens things out.

i disagree because those moves that were made were done through trades, etc.... not done through collaborating in free agency... very different to me.



:pimp:

[game385]

yeah it was Ok to do it back then but not anymore. right? Or maybe is it just because they were playing for L.A.? GTFO

Yeah and another thing about the Chamberlin-West comparison is the fact that was an inside outside combination. Traditionally that's how title contenders are built and its not that huge a deal for the arguably 1st and 2nd best players in the league to be on the same team if one is a big man and the other is a guard or perimeter player.

[plowking]

i disagree because those moves that were made were done through trades, etc.... not done through collaborating in free agency... very different to me.



:pimp:

Agreed. Trading nothing for Pau Gasol was fair.

But players signing to a team isn't fair.

[poido123]

if bron bosh and wade teamed up, i would go for any team to beat them, would be david vs goliath, and it would be the only way you would see me rooting for lakers and kobe...if lakers could beat this super team, i would boost kobe's credentials to near jordan's, cant believe im saying that, ewww....

[ZHAKIDD532]

Magic played with Worthy and Kareem, what's your point?

[SoCalMike]

Agreed. Trading nothing for Pau Gasol was fair.

But players signing to a team isn't fair.

Dude, it was a trade... there's a huge difference... why are people so dense?

And its not just the Lakers... see what the Celtics did with their big 3, and even what Dallas did last season... they picked up great talent for basically nothing. Its called being a savvy GM.


:pimp:

[game385]

i disagree because those moves that were made were done through trades, etc.... not done through collaborating in free agency... very different to me.



:pimp:

Yeah, I agree. These players calloborating in Free Agency like this, would be more of an indictment on they're competitive integrity.

Particularly LeBron b/c it's already Wade's team and he already led them to a title. Bosh isn't on their level and is probably best suited for being a great second or third option so it doesn't hurt him at all. LeBron's legacy takes the major hit in this scenario

[Dwade305]

Agreed. Trading nothing for Pau Gasol was fair.

But players signing to a team isn't fair.


Dont forget Marc Gasol. He evened the trade out....................
:roll:

[Lebron23]

Yeah, I agree. These players calloborating in Free Agency like this, is more of an indictment on they're competitive integrity.

Are you Lakers fan/Kobe fan? Only a Lakers/Kobe fan would be afraid if LeWadeBosh play on the same team.

1960's Celtics, 1980's Lakers and Celtics and 1990's Chicago Bulls dominated the NBA because they were head and shoulders above any teams in the NBA.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

I think the whole Lakers team is a B*tch move", same thing with the Celtics over the past 2 years.
These bullshit trades creating these teams are B*tch moves too.

So I guess it evens things out.

:no:
only 2 players on the Lakers have ever been all-stars.

[plowking]

Dude, it was a trade... there's a huge difference... why are people so dense?

And its not just the Lakers... see what the Celtics did with their big 3, and even what Dallas did last season... they picked up great talent for basically nothing. Its called being a savvy GM.


:pimp:

Got ya. Persuading good players to play for your team isn't being a good GM. Makes sense.

[Jasper]

Did Magic go play with Bird? Did Barkley or Malone try to play with Michael? Hell, did Michael try to go play with Magic prior to 91? Or maybe a better question is, had the opportunity ever presented itself during the prime of their playing careers, would they? I sincerely believe that the answer to that question is not just no, but "Hell No!" Even Kobe wanted to prove himself as a leader & champion beyond Shaq's shadow.

Of course we won't know his plans until tomorrow night, but today for the sake of argument going to Miami would be the biggest hit to LeBron's brand and his all-time legacy.

Regardless of how many championships they win, LeBron in Miami (w/ Wade & Bosh) never garners the same level of respect or admiration as Kobe let alone MJ.

Wade should be his rival (even if they're friends off the court). Fleeing to Miami to go play with a player so close in talent is an unjustifiable b*tch move. It screams not only can I not get it done alone (b/c no-one ever really does) but I can't get it done being the man at all.
This arguement has been stated before.
Lets jump on your bandwagon Laker team , way before you were born , but I was watching , Jerry West , Gail Goodrich ,and oh yea that other guy - Wilt.
How bout my team of that weak era - Oscar Robertson and Bobby Dandridge , and oh yea hum Jabbar.
Lets jump further head to one of your teams ... Majic , Worthy and oh yea Jabbar.
Lets jump ahead again with your team - Shaq and oh yea your small robin Kobe.
Lets jump over to Boston for a second - Mchale , Parrish , and oh yea Bird.
How bout we jump ahead to the last Boston champs - Pierce , Ray Ray and oh yea Garnet.
Lets jump ahead to your current Laker team - Pau , Odom and oh yea Kobe .

Wake up folks , the NBA has stars and all of the above championships (MANY) had all of the above HOF'ers.

So you want to dis what D-wade and Miami is doing :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Why don't you call Buess tell him to strip the Laker team , and have Kobe prove that he can carry a team into the playoff's and win a championship.
:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Sometimes I just have to wonder if any of you actually look at history:confusedshrug:

[game385]

Are you Lakers fan/Kobe fan? Only a Lakers/Kobe fan would be afraid if LeWadeBosh play on the same team.

1960's Celtics, 1980's Lakers and Celtics and 1990's Chicago Bulls dominated the NBA because they were head and shoulders above any teams in the NBA.

Nope. As a matter of fact I think the Lakers would beat this team in the finals this year, but after that who knows. My "gripe" if you will, with this scenario is merely that it forever damages LeBron James' legacy. It calls to question his competitive nature, his will, desire, and confidence in his own ability to lead a team to a championship(s).

[letsdothis]

If LeBron joins the bosh/wade on the Heats, I think another good player (NOT on the level of a boozer or Lee, but more on the Mike Miller level), will come to the Lakers. If Lebron goes to Miami, it is a virtual lock that Lakers and Heat will meet in the finals for one of the most epic showdowns in NBA history (out of the roof ratings). Someone (a player who has been in the league for a little while) will be willing to take less money to be a part of this historic clash of NBA titans.

[Showtime]

How is it any different than threatening to leave one's own team unless a move is made? Or forcing one's way to a specific team in a draft? Oh right, it's not.

[Lebron23]

Nope. As a matter of fact I think the Lakers would beat this team in the finals this year, but after that who knows. My "gripe" if you will, with this scenario is merely that it forever damages LeBron James' legacy. It calls to question his competitive nature, his will, desire, and confidence in his own ability to lead a team to championship(s).


What if LeBron wins the NBA Finals MVP? I would love to see LeBron sign with the Knicks, Nets, Cavs or Bulls, but it looks like Wade and Bosh already convinced him to sign with the Miami Heat.

LeBron can still change his mind.

[game385]

What if LeBron wins the NBA Finals MVP? I would love to see LeBron sign with the Knicks, Nets, Cavs or Bulls, but it looks like Wade and Bosh already convinced him to sign with the Miami Heat.

It won't matter. He could win the Finals MVP and 8 championships, but if he does so in Miami he would never be considered as great as MJ, Magic, Bird, or Kobe. The common thread here is that they were all leaders. They all had help and or great partners but at some point they were each the undisputed "man" on their teams. It was "their team" w/o question.

Wade's legacy would be in tact because he already won. He willed his team to a title before. A feat LeBron has never accomplished and will never be able to accomplish in Miami. He would always have that cloud over his career no matter how much he wins.

[Snoop_Cat]

If they failed to make the NBA finals even once in their primes with this line-up, LeBron's legacy would be destroyed.

[Lebron23]

It won't matter. He could win the Finals MVP and 8 championships, but if he does so in Miami he would never be considered as great as MJ, Magic, Bird, or Kobe.

Wade's legacy would be in tact because he already won but LeBron would always have a cloud over his career no matter how much he wins.


Do you want to see LeBron sign with the Chicago Bulls or New York Knicks? I think Bron can lead both of these teams into the NBA Finals.

[lacasner]

It won't matter. He could win the Finals MVP and 8 championships, but if he does so in Miami he would never be considered as great as MJ, Magic, Bird, or Kobe.

Wade's legacy would be in tact because he already won but LeBron would always have a cloud over his career no matter how much he wins.

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq192/bballking108/sad_puppy.jpg

[bluechox]

hold on for just a minute, no one is taking less moneyif lebron were to join miami they would do a sign an trade with cleaveland to play lebron and his ego max dollars

[EDART King]

yeah it was Ok to do it back then but not anymore. right? Or maybe is it just because they were playing for L.A.? GTFO
:roll:

Anyway, LeBron is staying in Cleveland

[Kurosawa0]

You guys are being way too dramatic. One thing that has been proven time and time again in the NBA, winning conquers all. If LeBron goes to Miami and the Heat win five titles, his legacy is greater than if he stays in Cleveland and never wins anything.

[Lebron23]

You guys are being way too dramatic. One thing that has been proven time and time again in the NBA, winning conquers all. If LeBron goes to Miami and the Heat win five titles, his legacy is greater than if he stays in Cleveland and never wins anything.


Rings = Most Important thing on ISH. Just ask the Kobe fanatics.

F*ck the Regular Season MVP.

[Kurosawa0]

Rings = Most Important thing on ISH. Just ask the Kobe fanatics.

F*ck the Regular Season MVP.

Well, would teaming up with Wade and Bosh really give LeBron more help than Magic or Larry had? Kareem had won championships before Magic got there and no one cares about that in terms of Magic's legacy. People will remember the winning and the great team more than anything. Hypothetically anyway.

[gasolina]

I don't want Lebron to sign with the Heat. As the HEat's salary stands right now, they can't even give a max contract to Lebron.

Putting Lebron in there would just cripple their salary that they can't even get any useful players in there to make a full roster. The best thing for the heat is to use the remaining capspace for useful role players and a legit bench.

Having a superteam with Lebron, Wade, Bosh, will just be too much. The league salary structure is not setup to accomodate 3 max players. They will just end up shooting themselves in the foot for it.

[niko]

When people argue the merits of Kobe as an all time great, they ALWAYS bring up he didn't win without Shaq, and even now, they bring up the fact he has a great supporting cast, but he gets credit because he was the leader, those people joined HIS team.

Lebron is joining Wade's team, he could not win before him, only with him (assuming he wins). The people who keep saying this will not affect Lebron's legacy are not being realistic. It's ALREADY being discuss and it has yet to happen.

And people need to stop with this MAGIC HAD KAREEM, Magic didn't lose and then decide to go play with his rival Bird, and only win with him. That would be a comparison.

Lebron is choosnig to be Pippen instead of Jordan. For the league's marguee
player, that's just sad.

Note: Heat fans don't come and argue. You don't need to apoligize, be happy, dance around, enjoy. It's like being a yankee fan arguing how fair it is that you get every player. It's not, but that's NOT your issue. The team that gets the benefit should be happy. The rest of us can discuss.

[game385]

Do you want to see LeBron sign with the Chicago Bulls or New York Knicks? I think Bron can lead both of these teams into the NBA Finals.

I want to see him with the Bulls, but I can much easier get over him staying in Cleveland than going anywhere else. If he goes to NJ or NY, I don't think his legacy takes the immediate hit that it would by joining Bosh, and Wade in Miami. If he goes there, a lot of people would be excited but I think many more would question his competitive nature and accuse him of choosing the path of least resistance towards winning a ring. That's big when you're talking about being placed among the all-time greats.

[Kurosawa0]

Lebron is choosnig to be Pippen instead of Jordan. For the league's marguee
player, that's just sad.

Note: Heat fans don't come and argue. You don't need to apoligize, be happy, dance around, enjoy. It's like being a yankee fan arguing how fair it is that you get every player. It's not, but that's NOT your issue. The team that gets the benefit should be happy. The rest of us can discuss.

The difference would be that Jordan always got the ball at the end of the game and I dont' think that would be the case for Wade. I think they put the ball in LeBron's hands and let him be kind of a Magic Johnson.

[game385]

Well, would teaming up with Wade and Bosh really give LeBron more help than Magic or Larry had? Kareem had won championships before Magic got there and no one cares about that in terms of Magic's legacy. People will remember the winning and the great team more than anything. Hypothetically anyway.

Its different when you're talking about an inside and outside player.

[Yuki Nagato]

If they failed to make the NBA finals even once in their primes with this line-up, LeBron's legacy would be destroyed.

LeBron's legacy would be destroyed even if he wins 4 rings in a row. How could you be the GOAT if you can't win without the best players on the league? Imagine Wade stealing a pair of Finals MVP from him :lol Lebron was clearly upset with Wade winning the 2010 Allstar MVP!

That's why I think Lebron isn't going to sign with the Heat.

[niko]

The difference would be that Jordan always got the ball at the end of the game and I dont' think that would be the case for Wade. I think they put the ball in LeBron's hands and let him be kind of a Magic Johnson.

Unless Wade sucks or gets hurt or something and Wade carries them the story will be. Lebron finally won his championship. Expected to be the dominant force on a title winning Cavs team, instead Lebron was finally able to reach the top only by joining forces with two other dominant players. Wade was able to get his second title.

As opposed to "Lebron finally joins the pantheon of immortals as he leads the cavs (knicks, etc.) to a title".

One makes him look godlike, one makes him look like part of a great team. If he joins Miami, i doubt he understands that.

No one can convince me differenly, because when it looked like Boston might win, the talk was "kobe is not that great, he can't do it as the leader of a team, only the follower" despite the fact he won once without Shaq.

[MaxFly]

Agreed. Trading nothing for Pau Gasol was fair.

But players signing to a team isn't fair.

Did anyone complain when the Lakers traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown?

[Tez62]

Magic's Laker team was pre-expansion, and they had to go through another dynasty team in Boston. There's not much of a comparison here.

[G-Funk]

Did anyone complain when the Lakers traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown?

AWWWWWW! MAN YOU JUST OWNED THAT GUY!

[G-Funk]

5 things I wanna point out.

1. Lebron's legacy will take a huge hit.

2. Should be interesting to see Heat fans who always called Kobe second fittle to Shaq, I wonder who they will call the second fittle on this team?

3. Wilt teamed up with West when they were way older for a last run.

4. Cavs fans(Lebron Fanboys) will crawl back into the whole they cam out of.

5. Heat arena will finally be filled.

[InfiniteBaskets]

5 things I wanna point out.

1. Lebron's legacy will take a huge hit.

2. Should be interesting to see Heat fans who always called Kobe second fittle to Shaq, I wonder who they will call the second fittle on this team?

3. Wilt teamed up with West when they were way older for a last run.

4. Cavs fans(Lebron Fanboys) will crawl back into the whole they cam out of.

5. Heat arena will finally be filled.

Do you think showtime lakers fans were going back and forth debating the rankings of their players amidst their celebration of multiple championships?

[bsyde82]

Do you think showtime lakers fans were going back and forth debating the rankings of their players amidst their celebration of multiple championships?

No, because it was already known and accepted who the #1 guy was

Ppl need to stop comparing a lebron/wade combo to any other MODERN superstar combo - never before in modern era (I say 80s and beyond) have 2 legit #1 option superstars paired together to form a team.

Can't say kobe and shaq because even if kobe had #1 talent, no one at the time considered him the top dog alongside shaq. Bird was the undisputed #1 on his team. Same for Magic. Obviously the same for MJ.

[InfiniteBaskets]

No, because it was already known and accepted who the #1 guy was

Ppl need to stop comparing a lebron/wade combo to any other MODERN superstar combo - never before in modern era (I say 80s and beyond) have 2 legit #1 option superstars paired together to form a team.

Can't say kobe and shaq because even if kobe had #1 talent, no one at the time considered him the top dog alongside shaq. Bird was the undisputed #1 on his team. Same for Magic. Obviously the same for MJ.

What you say only holds true for NBA fans and critics. True Heat fans won't care who's the number 1 option. I didn't care whether it was Timmy Hardaway or Alonzo Mourning taking the final shot. I didn't care whether it was Wade or Shaq taking over a game. And I'm not going to care if it's LeBron or Wade taking the final shot, as long as we win.

[G-Funk]

Do you think showtime lakers fans were going back and forth debating the rankings of their players amidst their celebration of multiple championships?


That doesnt apply to the threepeat Lakers? my point is that even though Lebron will be the most dominant(stats wise). It won't make Wade's role any smaller. so why does it apply to Kobe?

[InfiniteBaskets]

That doesnt apply to the threepeat Lakers?

Did true laker fans care more about the #1 option or that they were winning championships?

[ginobli2311]

what is all this talk of super team?

the lakers are a ****ing super team right now and have been for the last 2 years.

kobe/gasol/bynum/artest/fisher/odom with phil jackson......LOL...that is a ****ing super team.

by the way.

kobe/gasol/bynum is only slightly worse than wade/lebron/bosh. you people are seriously under-rating gasol and bynum. what gasol and bynum bring to the table in terms of winning in the playoffs is extremely valuable.

sports public and fans confusing spectacular with great time and time again.

in a 7 game series the lakers would be favored actually if riley didn't take over. if its riley vs phil then the heat would be slight favorites.

[G-Funk]

Ppl need to stop comparing a lebron/wade combo to any other MODERN superstar combo - never before in modern era (I say 80s and beyond) have 2 legit #1 option superstars paired together to form a team.

Can't say kobe and shaq because even if kobe had #1 talent, no one at the time considered him the top dog alongside shaq. Bird was the undisputed #1 on his team. Same for Magic. Obviously the same for MJ.

Kobe was a normal second fiddle? after being the first defensive option averaging 28ppg and being the game finisher? Sorry to break the news to you but Kobe was already a top dog, he was an All-star and was considered one of the best closers and players in the NBA and was already being compared to Jordan.

[Poodle]

Did Magic go play with Bird? Did Barkley or Malone try to play with Michael? Hell, did Michael try to go play with Magic prior to 91? Or maybe a better question is, had the opportunity ever presented itself during the prime of their playing careers, would they? I sincerely believe that the answer to that question is not just no, but "Hell No!" Even Kobe wanted to prove himself as a leader & champion beyond Shaq's shadow.

Of course we won't know his plans until tomorrow night, but today for the sake of argument going to Miami would be the biggest hit to LeBron's brand and his all-time legacy.

Regardless of how many championships they win, LeBron in Miami (w/ Wade & Bosh) never garners the same level of respect or admiration as Kobe let alone MJ.

Wade should be his rival (even if they're friends off the court). Fleeing to Miami to go play with a player so close in talent is an unjustifiable b*tch move. It screams not only can I not get it done alone (b/c no-one ever really does) but I can't get it done being the man at all.


i agree this era of basketball is lame with FA since all the top teams have been doing is stacking stars, and not home growing...

but you can hardly fault the Heat for doing it. pretty sure it started with Celtics and Lakers, and everyone else trying to rival them. the ones it really screws are the in house teams that will never be able to compete with these star stacked teams(hawks for example).

[G-Funk]

what is all this talk of super team?

the lakers are a ****ing super team right now and have been for the last 2 years.

kobe/gasol/bynum/artest/fisher/odom with phil jackson......LOL...that is a ****ing super team.

by the way.

kobe/gasol/bynum is only slightly worse than wade/lebron/bosh. you people are seriously under-rating gasol and bynum. what gasol and bynum bring to the table in terms of winning in the playoffs is extremely valuable.

sports public and fans confusing spectacular with great time and time again.

in a 7 game series the lakers would be favored actually if riley didn't take over. if its riley vs phil then the heat would be slight favorites.


I can see what your saying, the twin towers is 1 of 4 reasons why the Lakers win but the Lakers don't have any household names like Wade Bosh and Bron

If you were to build a team most ppl would take this

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Bosh
Gasol



Bynum

What makes the Lakers so great is that they may not have the top players in the NBA(with the exception of kobe) or as young as this supertrio But they are a well put together team.

[bada bing]

a bunch of pussiefied drama queens. all of them. the stars of the past would piss all over these girls.

i hate kobe and the lakers with passion. i just can't see myself ever cheering for them but if this were to happen in Miami, i would soooo root for kobe and the lakers. I hate the fact that some stars in their prime are getting together instead of forming their own legacy.

bosh is a fake. he has alwasy talked about being a star and being the leader buthe is going to Wade's team now. he is wade's 2nd hand man in miami. that is wade's team. bosh is going in to lend a hand so the heat can with a championship with wade as its leader and star. totally bitchy move by bosh.

[Poodle]

I can see what your saying, the twin towers is 1 of 4 reasons why the Lakers win but the Lakers don't have any household names like Wade and Bron

If you were to buil a team most ppl would take this


Lebron/Kobe
Wade
Bosh
Gasol



Bynum

What makes the Lakers so great is that they may not have the top players in the NBA(with the exception of kobe) But they are a well put together team.


it was really getting Gasol that put the Lakers in the same boat as the Celtics.

[bsyde82]

I agree with some of this - the gasol/bynum frontline when healthy is pretty tough to overcome when you have Kobe on the perimeter. Ppl are premature to just assume the bron/wade/bosh combo would run over the league.

but you can't really use fisher as part of this super team though. Agreed he's clutch and a saavy veteran, but he takes a lot off the table as well. Artest, against this particular team (bron/wade), he would be real ineffective as a defender on either player. He can handle PP, melo, durant, but not players whose strength is driving to the basket. Artest simply does not have the lateral speed at this point in his career. Bron was owning him when the lakers played the cavs in cleveland. And lamar, well, he's just about as polarizing as Kobe in that he either amazing or crap depending on who you ask.

it's also a matter of perception here - Pau joined the lakers as the clear #2. After they failed in 2008 to win the title, the only talk about Pau was how soft and overrated he was. It was only since then that's he's been considered a legit superstar. And for most, there's still no dispute who the #1 guy is. I'm still not so sure Pau could be a legit #1 on any team that would be considered a true contender. His memphis teams were perennial sacrificial #8 seeds in the west. can't say the same about bron/wade's teams. There's a total difference here.


what is all this talk of super team?

the lakers are a ****ing super team right now and have been for the last 2 years.

kobe/gasol/bynum/artest/fisher/odom with phil jackson......LOL...that is a ****ing super team.

by the way.

kobe/gasol/bynum is only slightly worse than wade/lebron/bosh. you people are seriously under-rating gasol and bynum. what gasol and bynum bring to the table in terms of winning in the playoffs is extremely valuable.

sports public and fans confusing spectacular with great time and time again.

in a 7 game series the lakers would be favored actually if riley didn't take over. if its riley vs phil then the heat would be slight favorites.

[artex]

I hope he goes to the Heat so we can destroy another epic trio in the finals next season

[ashlar]

It would be bad for the nba and the trolling on this forum would be even worse but there is a small part of me that wants Lebron to join the Heat now so I can watch them crash and burn next year.

[highwhey]

i will be disapointed if lebron stays in cavs uniform or goes to heat. although i would respect him more if he stayed with cavs, lose all respect if he joined heat.

[Braincells]

If Kobe ends up beating that team it would be hard not to put him above Jordan.

[ginobli2311]

I can see what your saying, the twin towers is 1 of 4 reasons why the Lakers win but the Lakers don't have any household names like Wade Bosh and Bron

If you were to build a team most ppl would take this

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Bosh
Gasol



Bynum

What makes the Lakers so great is that they may not have the top players in the NBA(with the exception of kobe) or as young as this supertrio But they are a well put together team.


that may be true in terms of perception. but gasol is overall a better player than bosh. gasol is a better defender and has proven he can lead a team to the playoffs and close to 50 wins multiple times. gasol was also proven he can get it done in the playoffs and when it matter most.

the real order should be:

wade
lebron
kobe
gasol
bosh
bynum

now. in terms of winning a title. bynum is extremely valuable. my point is that wade/lebron/bosh is probably a little better than kobe/gasol/bynum....but not by a lot.

now. factor in phil jackson vs erik spoelstra and players like artest/fisher/odom and the lakers will be just as good or better as the "mega team" in miami.

its just such a double standard in the media and on here. you have to have a "mega team" to win in the nba....you always have. duncan and hakeem are the exceptions....and to some extent jordan. pretty much every other team had stacked talent and great coaching. the nba is top heavy now and has been for the last 30 years.

and the whole "mega team" diminishing either wade or lebron is absurd. kobe has been on a "super team" for all 5 of his titles and has played poorly in the nba finals for his career. has that diminished his legacy? hardly.....kobe gets rated over guys like duncan/bird/hakeem/shaq all the time. do you honestly think if these guys win 3 titles over the next 7 years that its going to hurt them? no way. its all about level of play. i don't care how stacked your team is......if you play well and win....you will get a ton of credit.

the diminishing legacy aspect only becomes relevant if a star player does not play well on the biggest stage. i.e.....Kobe over his career in the finals.

do i want lebron to go to miami? nope....i'd rather see him in chicago or new jersey. but lebron is in a really tough spot now. if he stays in cleveland he will maybe win 1 title in the next decade. if he goes miami he might win 7. if he goes to chicago he might win 5. so its a really tough spot for him.....he really can't win with this decision because he can't win a lot of titles in cleveland if he stays.

[ashlar]

Would this forum unite(other than heat fans) if the Wade/LBJ/Bosh trio was actually made true?

[G-Funk]

If Kobe ends up beating that team it would be hard not to put him above Jordan.


Wont put him above but he will be 2nd best player for sure

[ginobli2311]

If Kobe ends up beating that team it would be hard not to put him above Jordan.

its a team game. so if gasol beats them you feel it would be hard not to rank him over malone/kg/barkley all time?

[Braincells]

its a team game. so if gasol beats them you feel it would be hard not to rank him over malone/kg/barkley all time?

Putting Gasol in the same league as Wade and Lebron is laughable, we're talking about two potentially top 20 candidates vs someone who may not even make the HOF. It would be like Jordan teaming up with Malone and Hakeem.

[macpierce]

ISH drama haha, we will know by thursday night thanks to the queen :rockon:

[BallsOut]

its just such a double standard in the media and on here. you have to have a "mega team" to win in the nba....you always have. duncan and hakeem are the exceptions....and to some extent jordan. pretty much every other team had stacked talent and great coaching. the nba is top heavy now and has been for the last 30 years.

and the whole "mega team" diminishing either wade or lebron is absurd. kobe has been on a "super team" for all 5 of his titles and has played poorly in the nba finals for his career. has that diminished his legacy? hardly.....kobe gets rated over guys like duncan/bird/hakeem/shaq all the time. do you honestly think if these guys win 3 titles over the next 7 years that its going to hurt them? no way. its all about level of play. i don't care how stacked your team is......if you play well and win....you will get a ton of credit.


Kobe has never had more than 1 superstar playing alongside him if you take out 2004 with aging Payton/Malone. He's only had Shaq or Gasol as another top 10 player in the game.

If Lebron signs with the Heat, he will have 2 other top 10 players with Wade and himself rounding out the consensus top 3 in the league over the last 3 years (the other being Kobe). If that were to be the case, people would be diminishing Lebron's achievements as not being able to win after 7 years in Cleveland and having to team up with 2 other megastars to win a title, one that would hold less weight than any title won by past superstars like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, etc. Those titles would be on a lower level than Kobe/Shaq titles and an aging KG/Pierce/Allen since they would need 3 mega stars in their primes to do it.

[ginobli2311]

Putting Gasol in the same league as Wade and Lebron is laughable, we're talking about two potentially top 20 candidates vs someone who may not even make the HOF. It would be like Jordan teaming up with Malone and Hakeem.

ok. a few things.

gasol will be a first ball hall of famer. end of story. there is no doubt about gasol making the basketball hall of fame. its a lock. you might no know that there is only one hall of fame for basketball....only one....international play and achievements count.

now. you talk about jordan playing with hakeem or malone. you mean like magic and kareem? kobe and shaq? the nba has been dominated by star studded teams.

nobody is saying that gasol is on the level of wade or lebron. but gasol is certainly a better player than bosh. and we aren't playing a three on three game. there is no way the heat could surround wade/lebron/bosh with the likes of phil jackson (assuming riley does not coach) and role players like artest/odom/fisher.

its all about level of play....just like it should be. if the lakrs beat this team in the finals and kobe goes crazy then he definitely will get a huge boost in his legacy. but if the lakers win and kobe plays up to his normal sub par play in the finals.....it will not boost his legacy up too much.

again....you are also seriously under-rating the value of gasol and bynum in terms of winning in the playoffs.

[ginobli2311]

Kobe has never had more than 1 superstar playing alongside him if you take out 2004 with aging Payton/Malone. He's only had Shaq or Gasol as another top 10 player in the game.

If Lebron signs with the Heat, he will have 2 other top 10 players with Wade and himself rounding out the consensus top 3 in the league over the last 3 years (the other being Kobe). If that were to be the case, people would be diminishing Lebron's achievements as not being able to win after 7 years in Cleveland and having to team up with 2 other megastars to win a title, one that would hold less weight than any title won by past superstars like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, etc. Those titles would be on a lower level than Kobe/Shaq titles and an aging KG/Pierce/Allen since they would need 3 mega stars in their primes to do it.

not true at all. its not all about players to begin with. i'd rather have shaq/kobe/player x with phil jackson than wade/bosh/lebron with erik spoelstra.

shaq is one of the 8 best players of all time. bosh is not an all time great by any means. he is nothing more than a very good player. you can't just ignore the importance of players like artest and bynum and odom and fisher and horry and rice and many of the other role players the lakers have had over the last 12 years.

its also about having the right chemistry and fitting well. who is going to play center for the heat? bosh can't do it. the lakers have a better TEAM....they may not have as much talent. i'd actually think a team with a core like lebron/gerlad wallace/dwight howard would be ten times better than lebron/wade/bosh.

you are ignoring chemistry, role players, and coaching with your assertions. and those things are vital to winning titles in the nba.

[AlexanderRight]

I really don't think all three in Miami would work. Too many egos. Of course there can be many good players in one team but three All Stars, two of them starting all-stars, I don't think it would work. But hey, if anyone could do it Pat Riley could.

[G-Funk]

that may be true in terms of perception. but gasol is overall a better player than bosh. gasol is a better defender and has proven he can lead a team to the playoffs and close to 50 wins multiple times. gasol was also proven he can get it done in the playoffs and when it matter most.

the real order should be:

wade
lebron
kobe
gasol
bosh
bynum

now. in terms of winning a title. bynum is extremely valuable. my point is that wade/lebron/bosh is probably a little better than kobe/gasol/bynum....but not by a lot.

now. factor in phil jackson vs erik spoelstra and players like artest/fisher/odom and the lakers will be just as good or better as the "mega team" in miami.

its just such a double standard in the media and on here. you have to have a "mega team" to win in the nba....you always have. duncan and hakeem are the exceptions....and to some extent jordan. pretty much every other team had stacked talent and great coaching. the nba is top heavy now and has been for the last 30 years.

and the whole "mega team" diminishing either wade or lebron is absurd. kobe has been on a "super team" for all 5 of his titles and has played poorly in the nba finals for his career. has that diminished his legacy? hardly.....kobe gets rated over guys like duncan/bird/hakeem/shaq all the time. do you honestly think if these guys win 3 titles over the next 7 years that its going to hurt them? no way. its all about level of play. i don't care how stacked your team is......if you play well and win....you will get a ton of credit.

the diminishing legacy aspect only becomes relevant if a star player does not play well on the biggest stage. i.e.....Kobe over his career in the finals.

do i want lebron to go to miami? nope....i'd rather see him in chicago or new jersey. but lebron is in a really tough spot now. if he stays in cleveland he will maybe win 1 title in the next decade. if he goes miami he might win 7. if he goes to chicago he might win 5. so its a really tough spot for him.....he really can't win with this decision because he can't win a lot of titles in cleveland if he stays.

Your first point will always get a different opinion depends who u ask, secondly Pat Riley will be the teams coach. Ppl who wanna see the Lakers lose will say Supertrio>Lakers Trio. Ppl who wanna take credit from Kobe will say that the Lakers Trio is nearly as equal as equal(witch I hope that's not what ur doing). If you ask me if I would trade Lebron and Bosh for Bynum and Pau, So they can have a team trio of Lebron/Kobe/Bosh I would do it before you can blink. But unfortunatly for the Heat, they don't have good role players like Lakers do. Even though Odom is a disapearing act he will usually come up big every other game and not to mention his considered the heart of the team according to his teamates, Artest is Horrible on offence and is no longer the 20pt scorer ur thinking but he gives us thoughness, And even though Fish is old slow and doesnt pass he brings a lot of character to the team not to mention his clutch shot. And say what you want about Kobe's Finals FG%, he's the type of player you want leading your team. he gives his teamates the ultimate confidence and pushes them like noone

To me the Miami trio is better then the Lakers trion, but unfortunatly it takes a lot more then a 3 player team much less a star, what matters at the end is team work, character and leadeship, something the Lakers posses. witch makes the better then the heat.

[BallsOut]

not true at all. its not all about players to begin with. i'd rather have shaq/kobe/player x with phil jackson than wade/bosh/lebron with erik spoelstra.

shaq is one of the 8 best players of all time. bosh is not an all time great by any means. he is nothing more than a very good player. you can't just ignore the importance of players like artest and bynum and odom and fisher and horry and rice and many of the other role players the lakers have had over the last 12 years.

its also about having the right chemistry and fitting well. who is going to play center for the heat? bosh can't do it. the lakers have a better TEAM....they may not have as much talent. i'd actually think a team with a core like lebron/gerlad wallace/dwight howard would be ten times better than lebron/wade/bosh.

you are ignoring chemistry, role players, and coaching with your assertions. and those things are vital to winning titles in the nba.

In the long run, people won't be using role players in their arguments. If Lebron wins a ring, do you think his supporters will be boasting about what Mario Chalmers did in a few games in the playoffs? Nah, they'll be talking about how great of a player Lebron is and maybe even forget the fact that Chalmers was on his team 5 years from now.

With coaching, you are assuming Spoelstra is staying with the Heat, a highly unlikely chance. Riley is guaranteed to step into the coaching position should all 3 guys sign, do you not remember him stepping out of his coaching position when Wade went out due to his shoulder injury a few seasons ago just to pad his all time win/lose records? You can put Riley on the same coaching level as Phil. The difference is minor.

So your argument all boils down to arguing about nickels and pennies. I'm talking about the main guys needed to win the title, and with 3 mega stars in their primes, there's no question the title would be worth a lot less than guys who have had only one other superstar option with them to win.

If Lebron stays in Cleveland and wins, that title sure as hell holds A LOT more weight than if he would team up with Wade and Bosh in miami. There's no way you can argue that.

[bsyde82]

Ginobli, if this superteam were to happen in Miami, and Bron still fails to win the title, are the "supporting cast" arguments used to defend Bron null and void at that point?

or will your argument that the lakers still ahve the better "team" still be available in your opinion, as it is now.

[Braincells]

ok. a few things.

gasol will be a first ball hall of famer. end of story. there is no doubt about gasol making the basketball hall of fame. its a lock. you might no know that there is only one hall of fame for basketball....only one....international play and achievements count.

now. you talk about jordan playing with hakeem or malone. you mean like magic and kareem? kobe and shaq? the nba has been dominated by star studded teams.

nobody is saying that gasol is on the level of wade or lebron. but gasol is certainly a better player than bosh. and we aren't playing a three on three game. there is no way the heat could surround wade/lebron/bosh with the likes of phil jackson (assuming riley does not coach) and role players like artest/odom/fisher.

its all about level of play....just like it should be. if the lakrs beat this team in the finals and kobe goes crazy then he definitely will get a huge boost in his legacy. but if the lakers win and kobe plays up to his normal sub par play in the finals.....it will not boost his legacy up too much.

again....you are also seriously under-rating the value of gasol and bynum in terms of winning in the playoffs.

When did Gasol become better than Bosh? I thought the common consensus was that Bosh is better. Not too many players average 24 and 10 nowadays. The thing that is holding Gasol back from making the HOF are his mediocre years in Memphis where he couldn't win a single playoff game. He needs at least one more ring to be considered.

Wade and Lebron are arguably the greatest players of this era and you rarely hear of two mega stars teaming up just because they couldn't get it done on their respective teams. Did Jordan team up with Magic or Bird when he couldn't win? No, he suffered 5-6 hard years and stuck with his franchise. Luckily for him, Pippen and Grant started coming around. The Cavs basically bent over backwards for Lebron by surrounding him with talent, it's not their fault Lebron bailed in games 5 and 6. You mention Magic and Kareem but Kareem was traded and in the later years of his prime. Besides, Magic showed he could win without Kareem against the 76ers when Kareem went down.

It's also kind of funny that you mention Kobe and Shaq "teaming up" in the same way Lebron and Wade are. Shaq joined exactly the year Kobe was drafted, no one knew that Kobe would be a top 10 all time talent (other than Jerry West). They suffered their losses (see Jazz 1997, Spurs 1999), worked out their differences and it worked out for them.

Regardless of how Kobe plays, his legacy will go through the roof if he wins-- he is after all the main man on the Lakers and they go nowhere without him.

[ginobli2311]

In the long run, people won't be using role players in their arguments. If Lebron wins a ring, do you think his supporters will be boasting about what Mario Chalmers did in a few games in the playoffs? Nah, they'll be talking about how great of a player Lebron is and maybe even forget the fact that Chalmers was on his team 5 years from now.

With coaching, you are assuming Spoelstra is staying with the Heat, a highly unlikely chance. Riley is guaranteed to step into the coaching position should all 3 guys sign, do you not remember him stepping out of his coaching position when Wade went out due to his shoulder injury a few seasons ago just to pad his all time win/lose records? You can put Riley on the same coaching level as Phil. The difference is minor.

So your argument all boils down to arguing about nickels and pennies. I'm talking about the main guys needed to win the title, and with 3 mega stars in their primes, there's no question the title would be worth a lot less than guys who have had only one other superstar option with them to win.

If Lebron stays in Cleveland and wins, that title sure as hell holds A LOT more weight than if he would team up with Wade and Bosh in miami. There's no way you can argue that.

wade just said. spoelstra will be the coach....i see no reason why he would lie.

chris bosh is not a mega star. he's a very good player. an all-star....but he is not a mega star.

what you say is referring to perception...not reality. i don't care what the talking heads and idiots on here say. one man.....even two men....do not win titles. coaching is of supreme importance and quality role players are vital to winning titles. where do you think the kobe/shaq lakers would have been without horry? they definitely would have won less than 3 titles. perhaps only 1.....that is how important role players can be.

the title would only be worth less for lebron if he were play poorly in the finals....like kobe did this year and has for his career. but even then....people just ignore level of play often for star players that win. has kobe's legacy been damaged by winning 3 titles as a 2nd fiddle or playing poorly in 6 of his 7 trips to the nba finals? hell no....he's widely considered to be a top 10 player of all time.

and again......the current lakers team with phil jackson would be favored in a series against wade/bosh/lebron with average role players and spoelstra. so i don't see how winning a title as the underdog would somehow diminish its value.

[ginobli2311]

Ginobli, if this superteam were to happen in Miami, and Bron still fails to win the title, are the "supporting cast" arguments used to defend Bron null and void at that point?

or will your argument that the lakers still ahve the better "team" still be available in your opinion, as it is now.

there are no excuses if lebron joins the team. i'm just pointing out that the current lakers would still have the better team in my opinion if everyone was healthy.

[BallsOut]

wade just said. spoelstra will be the coach....i see no reason why he would lie.

chris bosh is not a mega star. he's a very good player. an all-star....but he is not a mega star.

what you say is referring to perception...not reality. i don't care what the talking heads and idiots on here say. one man.....even two men....do not win titles. coaching is of supreme importance and quality role players are vital to winning titles. where do you think the kobe/shaq lakers would have been without horry? they definitely would have won less than 3 titles. perhaps only 1.....that is how important role players can be.

the title would only be worth less for lebron if he were play poorly in the finals....like kobe did this year and has for his career. but even then....people just ignore level of play often for star players that win. has kobe's legacy been damaged by winning 3 titles as a 2nd fiddle or playing poorly in 6 of his 7 trips to the nba finals? hell no....he's widely considered to be a top 10 player of all time.

and again......the current lakers team with phil jackson would be favored in a series against wade/bosh/lebron with average role players and spoelstra. so i don't see how winning a title as the underdog would somehow diminish its value.

I find it funny that you are accusing others of the double standard when you yourself are openly arguing that Lebron winning a title with Wade/Bosh in Miami holds the same weight as Lebron winning a title by himself in Cleveland. Then you argue about Kobe's title having less weight when he won with Shaq as compared to Jordan's or Duncan's. Make up your mind man. You can't change your standards, because you don't like someone.

[ginobli2311]

When did Gasol become better than Bosh? I thought the common consensus was that Bosh is better. Not too many players average 24 and 10 nowadays. The thing that is holding Gasol back from making the HOF are his mediocre years in Memphis where he couldn't win a single playoff game. He needs at least one more ring to be considered.

Wade and Lebron are arguably the greatest players of this era and you rarely hear of two mega stars teaming up just because they couldn't get it done on their respective teams. Did Jordan team up with Magic or Bird when he couldn't win? No, he suffered 5-6 hard years and stuck with his franchise. Luckily for him, Pippen and Grant started coming around. The Cavs basically bent over backwards for Lebron by surrounding him with talent, it's not their fault Lebron bailed in games 5 and 6. You mention Magic and Kareem but Kareem was traded and in the later years of his prime. Besides, Magic showed he could win without Kareem against the 76ers when Kareem went down.

It's also kind of funny that you mention Kobe and Shaq "teaming up" in the same way Lebron and Wade are. Shaq joined exactly the year Kobe was drafted, no one knew that Kobe would be a top 10 all time talent (other than Jerry West). They suffered their losses (see Jazz 1997, Spurs 1999), worked out their differences and it worked out for them.

Regardless of how Kobe plays, his legacy will go through the roof if he wins-- he is after all the main man on the Lakers and they go nowhere without him.

dude....if gasol was to retire tomorrow he would be a lock for the hall of fame. international play counts. this is not even debatable and you lose a lot of cred debating gasol's hall of fame legitimacy.

also....gasol's time in memphis should be looked at as a positive in his career. he won close to 50 games three times early on in his career as the leader of joke teams in memphis.

when did gasol become better than bosh? maybe when he just won back to back titles and put up 22.0 PER for his career in the playoffs. he is a better rebounder and a much better defender than bosh. he is also far more efficient from the field in the playoffs than bosh. 54% from the field in the playoffs for gasol vs. 43% for bosh.

comparing what lebron had in cleveland to any of the title teams of the last 30 years is laughable. anyone that knows the game knows this. bad coach and no legit 2nd option and a bunch of aging role players that aren't clutch and can't defend. the cavs tried hard....but they failed miserably to surround lebron with championship talent.

agree to disagree pretty much about everything. the nba has always been dominated by teams with multiple hall of famers and great role players and great coaches. this so called "mega team" is no different on the floor. the only difference is how these players will end up on the same team. they had to do this if they really want to win.

go back and look at the last 30 nba champions and the history of the league. over 90% of championship teams have multiple hall of fame players and great coaching. also.....you are still seriously under-rating both gasol and bynum. if healthy, bynum is one of the 25 best players in the league. bynum put up 15 points and 8 boards on 57% from the field this year for the lakers in 30 minutes a game....while providing solid defense and protecting the rim. you don't find many guys in the league that can do that.

[ginobli2311]

I find it funny that you are accusing others of the double standard when you yourself are openly arguing that Lebron winning a title with Wade/Bosh in Miami holds the same weight as Lebron winning a title by himself in Cleveland. Then you argue about Kobe's title having less weight when he won with Shaq as compared to Jordan's or Duncan's. Make up your mind man. You can't change your standards, because you don't like someone.

no. i never said it holds the same weight at all. its why i have hakeem and duncan so high all time. they won with much less talent overall for their titles than any other superstars of all time. jordan won with less overall in my opinion than the other top ten players outside of duncan/hakeem as well.

my point is that it will not cheapen the title. will it be as impressive as duncan in 03 or hakeem in 94? of course not. but its not any less impressive than magic winning with kareem and worthy or shaq winning with kobe or bird winning with mchale and parish or ruseel winning with hondo and sam jones....or kg/pierce/allen.

stop acting like this is something new in the nba. its the formula for winning.

[BallsOut]

no. i never said it holds the same weight at all. its why i have hakeem and duncan so high all time. they won with much less talent overall for their titles than any other superstars of all time. jordan won with less overall in my opinion than the other top ten players outside of duncan/hakeem as well.

my point is that it will not cheapen the title. will it be as impressive as duncan in 03 or hakeem in 94? of course not. but its not any less impressive than magic winning with kareem and worthy or shaq winning with kobe or bird winning with mchale and parish or ruseel winning with hondo and sam jones....or kg/pierce/allen.

stop acting like this is something new in the nba. its the formula for winning.

3 mega stars in their prime is new bro. Kobe/Shaq = 2. Simple math. Lebron getting it done with just Bosh easily holds a lot more weight than Lebron getting it done with Wade AND Bosh.

[TheLogo]

Wade is the formual for winning because out of the 3, Wade has won a ring and knows how to win.

Lebron and Bosh would be just following Wade and his team.

[ginobli2311]

3 mega stars in their prime is new bro. Kobe/Shaq = 2. Simple math. Lebron getting it done with just Bosh easily holds a lot more weight than Lebron getting it done with Wade AND Bosh.

no. for the last time. bosh is not a mega star.

of course lebron winning with wade and bosh holds less weight. but not less weight then shaq winning with kobe and phil jackson and great role players or vice versa.

you do understand that shaq was at his peak for the 8 years kobe played with im and shaq is easily one of the 8 best players of all time. wade is currently maybe one of the 25 best all time and bosh is not even a discussion of all time greats.

kobe/shaq/rice or kobe/shaq/fisher with phil jackson is better than wade/lebron/bosh with erik spoelstra. end of story.

my god....if bosh is a "mega star"....then what do you consider shaq all time? a "super duper ultimate mega star times a billion"

i don't know your definitions of the terms you use. but shaq at his peak was literally ten times the player as bosh and twice as good as lebron or wade.

again....do you feel magic winning with kareem/worthy somehow diminishes his titles or legacy? please answer.

[Soundwave]

Well I mean Magic had Kareem + Worthy and even more than that.

Bird had McHale + Parish and even more than that.

It's not LeBron's fault he wasn't gift wrapped a situation like that from day 1 practically.

Gasol + Odom isn't that much different from Wade + Bosh anyway.

You're also kidding yourself if you think Charles Barkley would've killed a trade to the Bulls if it was ever offered to play with MJ or that MJ wouldn't have welcomed that. It just never was an option.

[chazzy]

The difference with this scenario is that it's the first time you have two top 3 players, AND another top 10 player on the same team in recent times. In your comparison with Shaq, Shaq is the main reason why his trio is better than this possible trio. When you compare Kobe/Rice to Wade/Bosh, the latter is easily superior. That's the difference. You have 3 different players around their PEAK who were all #1 options of 3 separate teams.

This won't even happen anyway, pointless to discuss.

[Tez62]

no. i never said it holds the same weight at all. its why i have hakeem and duncan so high all time. they won with much less talent overall for their titles than any other superstars of all time. jordan won with less overall in my opinion than the other top ten players outside of duncan/hakeem as well.

my point is that it will not cheapen the title. will it be as impressive as duncan in 03 or hakeem in 94? of course not. but its not any less impressive than magic winning with kareem and worthy or shaq winning with kobe or bird winning with mchale and parish or ruseel winning with hondo and sam jones....or kg/pierce/allen.

stop acting like this is something new in the nba. its the formula for winning.


Boston and LA had to go through eachother. This was pre-expansion. You don't have that anymore. Apples to Oranges comparison. Shaq + Kobe = 2 stars

[ginobli2311]

Well I mean Magic had Kareem + Worthy and even more than that.

Bird had McHale + Parish and even more than that.

It's not LeBron's fault he wasn't gift wrapped a situation like that from day 1 practically.

Gasol + Odom isn't that much different from Wade + Bosh anyway.

You're also kidding yourself if you think Charles Barkley would've killed a trade to the Bulls if it was ever offered to play with MJ or that MJ wouldn't have welcomed that. It just never was an option.

this.

gasol/odom/bynum/artest is most likely going to be better than:

wade/bosh/chalmers/player x

then factor in phil jackson vs spoelstra (if he stays)

then factor in how big fisher is in the playoffs. really? i would take the lakers all day long unless the heat go out and get haywood or a legit center with size and toughness that can protect the rim.

people on here don't realize just how good the lakers are. they just beat the celtics with kobe really struggling and bynum hurt. imagine what they would do if kobe played well and bynum was healthy.....its scary good.

[Soundwave]

I almost think though a prime Shaq is like almost equal to Wade + Bosh combined.

If I was LeBron I'd rather play with prime Shaq over Wade + Bosh. His presence in the middle was devastating and created so much room for wing players.

[ginobli2311]

The difference with this scenario is that it's the first time you have two top 3 players, AND another top 10 player on the same team in recent times. In your comparison with Shaq, Shaq is the main reason why his trio is better than this possible trio. When you compare Kobe/Rice to Wade/Bosh, the latter is easily superior. That's the difference. You have 3 different players around their PEAK who were all #1 options of 3 separate teams.

This won't even happen anyway, pointless to discuss.

i just don't think bosh is top ten. maybe top 15. but it remains to be seen what he can do in the playoffs. is he antawn jamison or pau gasol? we just don't know yet.

i agree that we haven't seen this before. but don't confuse that with better. i am strictly talking about which team would be better and how this team would stack up from a winning standpoint all time. and its really not any better on paper than most of the title teams of the multiple title teams of the last 30 years (duncan and hakeem excluded obviously)

[ginobli2311]

Boston and LA had to go through eachother. This was pre-expansion. You don't have that anymore. Apples to Oranges comparison. Shaq + Kobe = 2 stars

i don't your point.

so winning comes solely down to number of stars? lol

i'd much rather have lebron/prime shaq/fisher than lebron/wade/bosh....and its not close.

[Tez62]

i don't your point.

so winning comes solely down to number of stars? lol

i'd much rather have lebron/prime shaq/fisher than lebron/wade/bosh....and its not close.


Me too. And I'd rather have the Lakers team next year over Miami's even if LeBron goes there, although I disagree that LA would be favored. Miami would win 65-70 regular season games and be the favorites.

However, that doesn't change the fact that in the modern era we've never seen 2 of the top 3 players in the league team up with another top 10ish type player. Not even close really. Which, of course, the media would have a field day with.

[bsyde82]

again, the key difference is, there would be two legit #1 megastars on one team. at the same time. not a rising star becoming option 1b (like kobe). and though you don't seem too high on bosh, the dude is still a perennial all-star who puts up 20+/10 on a regular basis.

even if you considered kobe a legit #1 megastar throughout his 3peat reign with Shaq, there was no one close to a bosh on that squad as the 3rd guy.

now to be sure, the argument is incomplete because we don't know how the rest of the team will fill out.

I also disagree with the statement that prime shaq was "twice" as good as Bron or Wade. But we can agree to disagree on that point.




no. for the last time. bosh is not a mega star.

of course lebron winning with wade and bosh holds less weight. but not less weight then shaq winning with kobe and phil jackson and great role players or vice versa.

you do understand that shaq was at his peak for the 8 years kobe played with im and shaq is easily one of the 8 best players of all time. wade is currently maybe one of the 25 best all time and bosh is not even a discussion of all time greats.

kobe/shaq/rice or kobe/shaq/fisher with phil jackson is better than wade/lebron/bosh with erik spoelstra. end of story.

my god....if bosh is a "mega star"....then what do you consider shaq all time? a "super duper ultimate mega star times a billion"

i don't know your definitions of the terms you use. but shaq at his peak was literally ten times the player as bosh and twice as good as lebron or wade.

again....do you feel magic winning with kareem/worthy somehow diminishes his titles or legacy? please answer.

[ginobli2311]

Me too. And I'd rather have the Lakers team next year over Miami's even if LeBron goes there, although I disagree that LA would be favored. Miami would win 65-70 regular season games and be the favorites.

However, that doesn't change the fact that in the modern era we've never seen 2 of the top 3 players in the league team up with another top 10ish type player. Not even close really. Which, of course, the media would have a field day with.

it would depend on who else miami gets. if they don't get a legit center and its spoelstra coaching.....i can guarantee you that a healthy lakers team coached by phil jackson would be favored in a 7 game series.

obviously that changes with injuries, if riley is coach, or if the heat can somehow get a bunch of solid role players and a center.

but most likely the heat will not be able to bring in a lot of quality role guys or a quality center. and it sounds like spoelstra is remaining as coach. therefore the lakers would be favored.

[BallsOut]

i just don't think bosh is top ten. maybe top 15. but it remains to be seen what he can do in the playoffs. is he antawn jamison or pau gasol? we just don't know yet.

Bosh is top 10, and he's better than Gasol. If the stats don't sway you, check out his olympic play with team USA in 2008. He was their best big guy on the team.

What part of 3 > 2 don't you understand? Lebron, Wade and Bosh, 3 players who have led their teams to the playoffs, a gold medal and even to the finals AND winning a ring. Kobe/Shaq as great as Shaq is, he's still only one player. That means you'd have one less threat to worry about. If Lebron, Wade, and Bosh team up, you can't double team anyone of them and get away with it. They each get 40 minutes a game, that's an additional 40 minutes of superstar play for your team.

Add to that the amount of foul calls/superstar calls they'd be getting, they'd just run through the league. There's no doubt that Lebron's legacy would greatly diminish if after 7 years he leaves Cleveland without a ring to win one with two other players including Wade who has already won one as the man. You'd be hearing this argument for the rest of your life.

[AMISTILLILL]

imagine what they would do if kobe played well and bynum was healthy.....its scary good.

Imagine what it would be like if it rained gumdrops and snowed mashed potatoes, or if I could ride a hover-board to work like in Back To The Future II. It ain't happening.

[ginobli2311]

again, the key difference is, there would be two legit #1 megastars on one team. at the same time. not a rising star becoming option 1b (like kobe). and though you don't seem too high on bosh, the dude is still a perennial all-star who puts up 20+/10 on a regular basis.

even if you considered kobe a legit #1 megastar throughout his 3peat reign with Shaq, there was no one close to a bosh on that squad as the 3rd guy.

now to be sure, the argument is incomplete because we don't know how the rest of the team will fill out.

I also disagree with the statement that prime shaq was "twice" as good as Bron or Wade. But we can agree to disagree on that point.

i agree with most of that. but kobe was a legit "mega star"....to use your term....for the 2nd and 3rd titles. i agree about bosh being a better third option. but shaq was a much better first option than either wade or lebron.

now.....just because bosh is a better talent does not mean he will be a great fit. is he going to function taking on 12 shots a game? is he capable of focusing on defense and rebounding and protecting the rim instead?

those are all legit questions. that is why a team of lebron/gerald wallace/dwight howard would be so much better. each player would be able to play their normal game and would fit much better with the others.

you can't discount chemistry. do you think kobe and iverson would have meshed well together? hell no. i seriously doubt a team of kobe/iverson/rasheed wallace would have ever won anything together....and that is about how i think of this potential mega team. i think they would be a slightly better fit than the above hypothetical....but not much better. and no better on raw talent.

[BallPhunk]

So we're really already making excuses for a team that will have 2 of the 3 best players on the league on it? Wow.

[ginobli2311]

Bosh is top 10, and he's better than Gasol. If the stats don't sway you, check out his olympic play with team USA in 2008. He was their best big guy on the team.

What part of 3 > 2 don't you understand? Lebron, Wade and Bosh, 3 players who have led their teams to the playoffs, a gold medal and even to the finals AND winning a ring. Kobe/Shaq as great as Shaq is, he's still only one player. That means you'd have one less threat to worry about. If Lebron, Wade, and Bosh team up, you can't double team anyone of them and get away with it. They each get 40 minutes a game, that's an additional 40 minutes of superstar play for your team.

Add to that the amount of foul calls/superstar calls they'd be getting, they'd just run through the league. There's no doubt that Lebron's legacy would greatly diminish if after 7 years he leaves Cleveland without a ring to win one with two other players including Wade who has already won one as the man. You'd be hearing this argument for the rest of your life.

again. you focus solely on offense and not on defense or rebounding. you are ignoring two of the most important criteria to win in the playoffs. oh....and you ignore coaching as well. you also ignore that bosh is going to have to alter his game a lot for this to work.

again...if you are going to diminish rings for lebron if he joins this team. then you need to diminish magic's rings, bird's rings, kobe's rings, shaq's rings, russell's rings. its such a double standard.

LOL. not only all that but wade/lebron don't really fit together well. you can't ignore chemistry on the floor.

what team is better?

kobe/shaq/rice..........kobe/shaq/iverson?

[ginobli2311]

So we're really already making excuses for a team that will have 2 of the 3 best players on the league on it? Wow.

not at all. i'm just telling it like it is. lebron's or wade's titles should not be diminished historically if they win together. otherwise you would have to diminish the titles of a lot of the top ten players ever.

also.....the lakers are just as good or better as a team than this potential heat team. you guys just clearly don't know the game and don't understand what actually wins. those three guys alone is not enough. they don't fit well on paper with eachother.....and they are missing a lot. a lot depends on who else they would get and who the coach would be.

[Tez62]

it would depend on who else miami gets. if they don't get a legit center and its spoelstra coaching.....i can guarantee you that a healthy lakers team coached by phil jackson would be favored in a 7 game series.

obviously that changes with injuries, if riley is coach, or if the heat can somehow get a bunch of solid role players and a center.

but most likely the heat will not be able to bring in a lot of quality role guys or a quality center. and it sounds like spoelstra is remaining as coach. therefore the lakers would be favored.

I still don't see it. The odds are set based on what people will bet, not what they think will actually happen. LA will probably have some ups and downs in the regular season and Miami would probably dominate. Regardless, squares would pound Miami if they were an underdog.

[Tez62]

not at all. i'm just telling it like it is. lebron's or wade's titles should not be diminished historically if they win together. otherwise you would have to diminish the titles of a lot of the top ten players ever.

also.....the lakers are just as good or better as a team than this potential heat team. you guys just clearly don't know the game and don't understand what actually wins. those three guys alone is not enough. they don't fit well on paper with eachother.....and they are missing a lot. a lot depends on who else they would get and who the coach would be.

It doesn't matter, it's all about perception. LeBron's legacy would take a huge hit if he came to Miami and didn't win.

[BallsOut]

again. you focus solely on offense and not on defense or rebounding. you are ignoring two of the most important criteria to win in the playoffs. oh....and you ignore coaching as well. you also ignore that bosh is going to have to alter his game a lot for this to work.

again...if you are going to diminish rings for lebron if he joins this team. then you need to diminish magic's rings, bird's rings, kobe's rings, shaq's rings, russell's rings. its such a double standard.

LOL. not only all that but wade/lebron don't really fit together well. you can't ignore chemistry on the floor.

what team is better?

kobe/shaq/rice..........kobe/shaq/iverson?

I didn't ignore coaching. I already addressed it. I guarantee you Riley is not going to miss out on a chance to get another ring should they get all 3 guys. The guy is a legacy hunter. In regards to your question, obviously the first "team" is better, but you had to go to an entire extreme to try and prove a point. Bosh/Bron/Wade are certainly no Iversons, nor will they ever be so your argument fails. You also can't heavily weigh chemistry into the equation because Kobe STILL WON with Shaq despite their ongoing chemistry problems through the 3 titles.

If Lebron pairs up with Amare only and wins it, it will hold more weight than the kobe/shaq's. If lebron pairs up with Bosh and wins it, it will hold the same weight as kobe/shaq's since both Kobe and Shaq, on their own, are able to lead their teams to the playoffs but nothing more. If Lebron pairs up with Bosh AND Wade (a guy who already led his team to a ring), there's no way it holds the same weight as kobe/shaq's title simply b/c he needed 2 other superstars in their primes.

The critics would be forever calling it a "trio", the big 3 if you will, not a duo, not 2, but 3, which I believe is still > than 2, meaning Lebron needed 2 extra superstars in their primes to do what pass superstars have accomplished with just 1 of.

[BallPhunk]

not at all. i'm just telling it like it is. lebron's or wade's titles should not be diminished historically if they win together. otherwise you would have to diminish the titles of a lot of the top ten players ever.

also.....the lakers are just as good or better as a team than this potential heat team. you guys just clearly don't know the game and don't understand what actually wins. those three guys alone is not enough. they don't fit well on paper with eachother.....and they are missing a lot. a lot depends on who else they would get and who the coach would be.

All this historical mumbo jumbo comparisons mean nothing. It's about TODAY'S NBA, the players place in the game today and the positions they play.

LBJ and DW are 2 of the 3 best in the league, and in some eyes the top 2 (in their prime). And they play basically the same role on their team. I've seen no good comparison historically for this. Shaq & Kobe played completely different roles on their teams. Magic/KAJ/Worthy the same...

Yes, they'd need a few more pieces around them, but this team should dominate. They'd be a force of nature.

It would be like Bird and Magic joining. I hope it doesn't happen; I'd much rather see LBJ join Chicago (or stay in CLE, or NY...).

[ginobli2311]

All this historical mumbo jumbo comparisons mean nothing. It's about TODAY'S NBA, the players place in the game today and the positions they play.

LBJ and DW are 2 of the 3 best in the league, and in some eyes the top 2 (in their prime). And they play basically the same role on their team. I've seen no good comparison historically for this. Shaq & Kobe played completely different roles on their teams. Magic/KAJ/Worthy the same...

Yes, they'd need a few more pieces around them, but this team should dominate. They'd be a force of nature.

It would be like Bird and Magic joining. I hope it doesn't happen; I'd much rather see LBJ join Chicago (or stay in CLE, or NY...).


you make my point for me dude. your exact words "the basically play the same role on their teams" and "Shaq & Kobe played completely different roles"

that is my point. YOU DON'T WANT TWO PLAYERS THAT ESSENTIALLY PLAY THE SAME ROLE. That does not win. Throw Bosh in and its not a great fit. It would be different if you had wade/lebron and a prime ben wallace or dennis rodman. now that would work a lot better. but these guys are not a great fit.

which is why wade/lebron is much worse than a pairing of wade/howard or lebron/howard.

how do you guys not understand this? what do you think would happen if you put kobe/iverson on the same team in their primes? come on.

[ginobli2311]

I didn't ignore coaching. I already addressed it. I guarantee you Riley is not going to miss out on a chance to get another ring should they get all 3 guys. The guy is a legacy hunter. In regards to your question, obviously the first "team" is better, but you had to go to an entire extreme to try and prove a point. Bosh/Bron/Wade are certainly no Iversons, nor will they ever be so your argument fails. You also can't heavily weigh chemistry into the equation because Kobe STILL WON with Shaq despite their ongoing chemistry problems through the 3 titles.

If Lebron pairs up with Amare only and wins it, it will hold more weight than the kobe/shaq's. If lebron pairs up with Bosh and wins it, it will hold the same weight as kobe/shaq's since both Kobe and Shaq, on their own, are able to lead their teams to the playoffs but nothing more. If Lebron pairs up with Bosh AND Wade (a guy who already led his team to a ring), there's no way it holds the same weight as kobe/shaq's title simply b/c he needed 2 other superstars in their primes.

The critics would be forever calling it a "trio", the big 3 if you will, not a duo, not 2, but 3, which I believe is still > than 2, meaning Lebron needed 2 extra superstars in their primes to do what pass superstars have accomplished with just 1 of.


you lose cred saying that a lebron/bosh would hold the same weight as a shaq/kobe title. thats is beyond absurd. shaq is one of the 8 best players of all time....bosh is not even in the same stratosphere. there is no such thing as winning on your own....LOL. wade was a better player than shaq in 06 first of all.....and kobe couldn't win anything on his own. he needed phil jackson and fisher back....and he needed the gasol trade and ariza to develop. its all about team and it always will be.

3 is not always better than 2.....why can't you understand this? you want 2 legit stars that play different roles and then you want a defensive minded rebounder/role player and some good shooters. that is what a good team is. the blueprint for success is not difficult.

if this mega team was wade/bosh/dwight howard.....then i would totally agree with you that this team should win it all every year.

we all agree that lebron is better than howard. so do you finally see my point?

wade/bosh/howard is a much better core and fit than lebron/wade/bosh. that is my main point.

[PowerGlove]

yeah it was Ok to do it back then but not anymore. right? Or maybe is it just because they were playing for L.A.? GTFO
No dumbass, it is because they were playing against the Celtics. A team that had hof's on the bench.

[BallPhunk]

you make my point for me dude. your exact words "the basically play the same role on their teams" and "Shaq & Kobe played completely different roles"

that is my point. YOU DON'T WANT TWO PLAYERS THAT ESSENTIALLY PLAY THE SAME ROLE. That does not win. Throw Bosh in and its not a great fit. It would be different if you had wade/lebron and a prime ben wallace or dennis rodman. now that would work a lot better. but these guys are not a great fit.

which is why wade/lebron is much worse than a pairing of wade/howard or lebron/howard.

how do you guys not understand this? what do you think would happen if you put kobe/iverson on the same team in their primes? come on.

In principle you're right about not wanting the same position, but NOT when it's two players of this caliber. They have the talent to tailor their games to fit together. One draws the double, uh ohh! You'll have two crunch time players. LBJ can play nearly any position and dominate.

As far as Wallace or Rodman being a better fit than Bosh - maybe, maybe not. Bosh was great on the Olympic team, and filing in some tough minded defense around these 3 is probably easier than getting the offensive and rebounding talent of Bosh all in one. And LBJ is a defensive force.

Whether Howard would be a better pairing is irrelevant to how much this team should win. I've said that I think Chicago would be the best fit for LBJ. Regardless, Riley can adjust the offense and they would be scary. And if LBJ comes to the Heat, it's 50% because of Riley.

[Allstar24]

This ginobli guy is obsessed wih glorifying everyone around Kobe and putting down everyone around Wade/Lebron...what a joke...acting like Bosh isn't a superstar :oldlol:

[BallsOut]

you lose cred saying that a lebron/bosh would hold the same weight as a shaq/kobe title. thats is beyond absurd. shaq is one of the 8 best players of all time....bosh is not even in the same stratosphere. there is no such thing as winning on your own....LOL. wade was a better player than shaq in 06 first of all.....and kobe couldn't win anything on his own. he needed phil jackson and fisher back....and he needed the gasol trade and ariza to develop. its all about team and it always will be.

3 is not always better than 2.....why can't you understand this? you want 2 legit stars that play different roles and then you want a defensive minded rebounder/role player and some good shooters. that is what a good team is. the blueprint for success is not difficult.

if this mega team was wade/bosh/dwight howard.....then i would totally agree with you that this team should win it all every year.

we all agree that lebron is better than howard. so do you finally see my point?

wade/bosh/howard is a much better core and fit than lebron/wade/bosh. that is my main point.

Lebron/Bosh winning a title = Kobe/Shaq winning a title is beyond absurd? Let me break this down for you. Prime Lebron today >>>>>> Kobe back then, Prime Shaq >>>>>> Prime Bosh today. Then you factor in how Kobe couldn't win as the man without Shaq after he left, and how Shaq couldn't win as the man before joining Kobe being equivalent to Lebron not being able to win in the playoffs and Bosh not being able to win w/o a superstar 2 guard. If its all about winning as a team according to you and not individual talent, is this argument still absurd?

Once again you are arguing nickels and pennies. It doesn't matter if Wade/Bron/Bosh < Wade/Bosh/Howard because winning a title with 3 superstars in their primes, Wade/Bron/Bosh, will always be easier than winning a title with just two, 99-02 Kobe/Shaq.

[ginobli2311]

In principle you're right about not wanting the same position, but NOT when it's two players of this caliber. They have the talent to tailor their games to fit together. One draws the double, uh ohh! You'll have two crunch time players. LBJ can play nearly any position and dominate.

As far as Wallace or Rodman being a better fit than Bosh - maybe, maybe not. Bosh was great on the Olympic team, and filing in some tough minded defense around these 3 is probably easier than getting the offensive and rebounding talent of Bosh all in one. And LBJ is a defensive force.

Whether Howard would be a better pairing is irrelevant to how much this team should win. I've said that I think Chicago would be the best fit for LBJ. Regardless, Riley can adjust the offense and they would be scary. And if LBJ comes to the Heat, it's 50% because of Riley.

agree with most of that.

like i have said. if riley is the coach then i would give this team the nod over the lakers in a 7 game series. i don't think most people understand just how important coaching is as far as winning titles goes.

i like bosh a lot as a player. and i'm sure he will take a lesser role on this potential team. but that does not change the fact that the heat are going to need a good center that can defend, board, and protect the rim off the ball. that is a huge aspect of winning in the playoffs....and bosh is not capable of doing that. sure....if the heat get haywood then this team should destroy everyone and they will be much better on paper than the lakers. but i don't know if that is realistic or not.

i'm projecting for a team of chalmers/wade/lebron/bosh/below average center.....with a below average bench.....coached by spoelstra. and i think a healthy lakers team would beat that above team in a 7 game series.

if you toss riley, raja bell, and a good center like haywood into the mix then i totally agree with you.

but this thread is about diminishing lebron's legacy if he goes to miami and wins titles. and i don't think it really would. especially with stacked lakers and celtics teams currently. but like i said from the beginning.....it will always have to do with lebron's level of play. if he wins titles and puts up a 30.0 PER and wins a bunch of finals MVP's....then it won't diminish anything at all.

but if he plays like kobe has in the finals and wins like 4 or 5 titles with only 1 finals mvp....then yes.....it will diminish his legacy.

either way though.....if he stays in cleveland the max titles he can win is 2 in the next decade his max all time ranking would be around 8. if he goes to miami the max titles he can win is 7 and his max all time ranking is potentially number 1 all time with a very good chance to go down in the top 5 all time.

so his legacy is going to end up much better by going to miami anyway. unless something totally changes in cleveland and they can get a legit 2nd option and revamp the entire roster. bosh going to cleveland would have been great....but it didn't happen. now the heat are much better and cleveland is getting worse........

[ginobli2311]

Lebron/Bosh winning a title = Kobe/Shaq winning a title is beyond absurd? Let me break this down for you. Prime Lebron today >>>>>> Kobe back then, Prime Shaq >>>>>> Prime Bosh today. Then you factor in how Kobe couldn't win as the man without Shaq after he left, and how Shaq couldn't win as the man before joining Kobe being equivalent to Lebron not being able to win in the playoffs and Bosh not being able to win w/o a superstar 2 guard. If its all about winning as a team according to you and not individual talent, is this argument still absurd?

Once again you are arguing nickels and pennies. It doesn't matter if Wade/Bron/Bosh < Wade/Bosh/Howard because winning a title with 3 superstars in their primes, Wade/Bron/Bosh, will always be easier than winning a title with just two, 99-02 Kobe/Shaq.

sorry dude.

agree to disagree. both kobe and shaq were top 5 players in the league for 2 of those titles and two of the best ever. lebron is on their level. bosh is not even close. so i think lebron winning titles with bosh would trump shaq/kobe winning together.

completely disagree that it is always easier to win titles with 3 superstars.

again.

give me kobe/shaq/rice over lebron/wade/bosh all day long.

[bsyde82]

This ginobli guy is obsessed wih glorifying everyone around Kobe and putting down everyone around Wade/Lebron...what a joke...acting like Bosh isn't a superstar :oldlol:

Don't think ginobli is saying Bosh isn't a superstar, although that depends on your definition of that word. Only that Bosh is not nearly on the same level as Bron/Wade.

Out of the bron/wade/bosh trio, bosh is the one I know the least about, mainly because toronto is rarely on national tv, and because he never really created any type of stir over there. Just banged out 20/10 seasons every season on a perennial east. conf. playoff doormat it seemed.

Now that he's part of this circus FA media circus, I'm starting to think more and more that this guy has the mentality of a 2nd banana/front runner. And I'm saying that as a good thing if bron/wade/bosh were ever to form a trio. Bosh has shown the ability to be a defensive factor in the olympics as someone else has mentioned. So we know he at least has the ability to be a factor. The question is, would he be willing to subjugate himself to that role while reducing his offensive numbers? I say yes...if he's smart, and he seems relatively intelligent judging from interviews, he knows he'll NEVER EVER EVER come close to eclipsing bron/wade's star. With that knowledge, why not settle into your role as a primary defensive anchor on the frontline...even in that role, I could still see him getting like 15-17/game, with 11-12 boards and a few assists.

I can see Bron/Wade becoming a more even Pippen/MJ, with Bron being super pippen, and Wade being poor man's jordan. Bosh would be the more offensively skilled (by a mile) Rodman with worse defense/rebounding (but still solid and not nearly as inferior as Rodman is in the offensive department). Getting one competent center, and getting fortunate w/ draft picks, d-leaguers (the warriors have shown you can find talent here), and veterans willing to take a pay cut to join this. Add on Riley, and ok I've just convinced myself into thinking there's no reason why this can't work out.

[barbaroi]

Regardless of what anyone says to the contrary Lebron's rep would take an immediate hit if he did join those 2 in Miami. Isn't sports supposed to be about competitiveness? It would be disgusting to see three top 5-10 players team up instead of manning up and trying to take a championship by force with their own respective teams. And for a player who is purportedly attempting to become the GOAT? It would immediately knock him out of contention to show the cowardice that would be needed to join up with the best of your competition to steamroll the rest of your conference.

[Gundress]

That's a biggest b!tch move.

Do you honestly think if Magic asked Bird to join him on the same team to get a championship? We all know that Bird would say to Magic "GO F*CK YOURSELF":lol

[BFRESH44]

I'm a diehard Heat fan and I complelty agree that it would be a b*tchmove.

But I still want him to come, so I can do the stanky leg on you suckas.

[thejumpa]

That's a biggest b!tch move.

Do you honestly think if Magic asked Bird to join him on the same team to get a championship? We all know that Bird would say to Magic "GO F*CK YOURSELF":lol

Different eras. There are no player or team rivalries any more. Furthermore, if player X is hungy for to win, I can't see why anyone would think they wouldn't team up with another star. If the stars align, then the stars align:confusedshrug:

LeBron/Wade/Bosh could potentially be the strongest trio in the history of the NBA. They would be in title contention every year and could end up being apart of the best team in NBA history.

[ginobli2311]

This ginobli guy is obsessed wih glorifying everyone around Kobe and putting down everyone around Wade/Lebron...what a joke...acting like Bosh isn't a superstar :oldlol:

it has nothing to do with kobe. put lebron on the lakers and kobe on this potential heat team.

i would feel the exact same way. chemistry, coaching, and role is being over looked.

its not just give me the three best players in the league and you win. because wade/lebron/kobe aren't winning anything if they were on the same team. the celtics would have destroyed them.

you only want 2 stars. you can have 3....but the third guy needs to be rodman or ben wallace or gerald wallace type player that can be really effective without dominating the ball and have a huge impact on defense. just like a healthy bynum does.

has nothing to do with kobe dude. bosh simply can't protect the rim or defend all around like bynum does. and then lebron and wade basically play the exact same role. it just does not fit.

i'm not even saying they won't win. but i would definitely bet on the lakers against this potential heat team in a series.

[ThaRegul8r]

Wilt Chamberlain played with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor.

Wilt already won with Philadelphia. He wasn't chasing his first ring as LeBron is. Two different situations.

[ginobli2311]

Wilt already won with Philadelphia. He wasn't chasing his first ring as LeBron is. Two different situations.

lol.

if this happens. its going to all depend on how well lebron plays....AS IT SHOULD. if he puts up 25 points 8 boards and 8 assists a game on high efficiency and the heat win a bunch of titles.......nobody is going to say anything.

the only reason people bring up stacked teams with kobe is because he has disappeared so often in the nba finals and in big moments. you think anyone would be harping on how good gasol and fisher are if it was kobe shooting 50% and making all the big shots? hell no.

this whole legacy thing is getting out of control shaq and kobe won three titles together and shaq is in the top 8 all time and at his peak was better than either wade or lebron. magic had worthy and kareem. bird had mchale and parish and other great teammates. every dynasty in the history of the league has been super stacked.

hakeem's back to back titles were not loaded
duncan's teams were not loaded
jordan's teams were very good....but not loaded like all the other dynasties.

thats it. only hakeem, duncan, and jordan have won without having "mega teams"....that is it.

people aren't going to talk about who is better between wade and lebron. they are going to talk about how they are the best combo ever if they are winning titles. trust me.....if lebron is winning a bunch of titles and playing well in the process its not going to hurt him at all. in fact, if lebron goes to miami.....my prediction is that he goes down as the 2nd best player of all time.

[ThaRegul8r]

if you are going to diminish rings for lebron if he joins this team. then you need to diminish magic's rings, bird's rings, kobe's rings, shaq's rings, russell's rings. its such a double standard.

Russell didn't not win for years and then jump to another team to try to win his first ring. He won from the get go, and kept winning until the day he retired, only halted twice.

Magic didn't not win for years and then jump to another team to try to win his first ring. He won from the get go, and had one of the greatest games in NBA playoff history before even being old enough to legally drink.

Bird didn't not win for years and then jump to another team to try to win his first ring. He turned the team around 32 games from the second-worst record in the league to the best record in the league in Year One, then with a couple of additions, then won the title in Year Two.

There's a difference.

[ginobli2311]

Russell didn't not win for years and then jump to another team to try to win his first ring. He won from the get go, and kept winning until the day he retired, only halted twice.

Magic didn't not win for years and then jump to another team to try to win his first ring. He won from the get go, and had one of the greatest games in NBA playoff history before even being old enough to legally drink.

Bird didn't not win for years and then jump to another team to try to win his first ring. He turned the team around 32 games from the second-worst record in the league to the best record in the league in Year One, then with a couple of additions, then won the title in Year Two.

There's a difference.

so we should fault lebron because he didn't come into the league and play with multiple hall of famers.

its a no win for him. he doesn't have even close to enough to win multiple titles in cleveland and then you call him a ring chaser if he leaves. sorry.....not everyone enters the league and gets to play with a top 8 player of all time like kobe and magic both did.

lebron got mo williams/jamison. bird got mchale and parrish with very good coaching and role players.

you make it sound like lebron failed to win on a bunch of great teams or something. please leave lebron. the cavs will lose about 25 more games next year and might not make the playoffs.

again. so every other player in history outside of dunacan and hakeem can play with stacked teams and multiple hall of famers and truly elite top ten of all time guys....but lebron can't? why?

[ThaRegul8r]

Did Magic go play with Bird? Did Barkley or Malone try to play with Michael? Hell, did Michael try to go play with Magic prior to 91? Or maybe a better question is, had the opportunity ever presented itself during the prime of their playing careers, would they? I sincerely believe that the answer to that question is not just no, but "Hell No!" Even Kobe wanted to prove himself as a leader & champion beyond Shaq's shadow.

This would definitely have an impact on his legacy. When Wilt was losing to Russell every year, did he go and join Russell?

No.

He was THE reason the Philadelphia 76ers beat Boston, becoming the only man in the history of the league to deny a healthy Bill Russell an NBA championship.

When Jordan was losing to the Pistons every year, did he go and join them

No. He finally broke through and beat Detroit and never looked back. Not being able to win after posting the best record in the league in consecutive seasons and teaming up with another of THE best players in the league in his prime will separate him from the other greats.

Where's the pride in wanting to be the man responsible for taking a team like that down?

"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?"

[ginobli2311]

This would definitely have an impact on his legacy. When Wilt was losing to Russell every year, did he go and join Russell?

No.

He was THE reason the Philadelphia 76ers beat Boston, becoming the only man in the history of the league to deny a healthy Bill Russell an NBA championship.

When Jordan was losing to the Pistons every year, did he go and join them

No. He finally broke through and beat Detroit and never looked back. Not being able to win after posting the best record in the league in consecutive seasons and teaming up with another of THE best players in the league in his prime will separate him from the other greats.

Where's the pride in wanting to be the man responsible for taking a team like that down?

"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?"


ok. just stop it. jordan broke through because his team and coaching was greatly improved around him. lebron would have for sure stayed if bosh joined him in cleveland. guess what....it didn't happen. so you expect him to sign back up with the joke team he has? how the **** is he going to beat the magic/celtics/heat/bulls/lakers/thunder over the next decade with the garbage around him.

its impossible.

oh and to everyone here saying the heat would be too stacked.

for the last time:

kobe/gasol/bynum/artest/fisher.....with odom and blake on the bench and phil jackson coaching

is going to be a better team than

chalmers/lebron/wade/bosh/minimum contract......with min. contract and min. contract on the bench with erik spoelstra coaching

LOL

[Soundwave]

Russell didn't not win for years and then jump to another team to try to win his first ring. He won from the get go, and kept winning until the day he retired, only halted twice.

Magic didn't not win for years and then jump to another team to try to win his first ring. He won from the get go, and had one of the greatest games in NBA playoff history before even being old enough to legally drink.

Bird didn't not win for years and then jump to another team to try to win his first ring. He turned the team around 32 games from the second-worst record in the league to the best record in the league in Year One, then with a couple of additions, then won the title in Year Two.

There's a difference.

Bird and Magic were fortunate that they were paired with Kareem/Worthy ++
and McHale/Parish ++ right from the get go.

Not really LeBron's fault that he wasn't drafted into similar circumstances.

How is this really all that different from Kobe crying about Odom + Butler not being good enough of a supporting cast for him, then threatening to leave a season or two later, and the Lakers basically having to be bailed out by a home run trade that brought in Gasol?

How many years would Kobe have tolerated Mo Williams being his best no.2 option.

Haters gonna hate either way. There are people still pissed at Shaq for leaving Orlando 14 years ago. And the Magic were only one year removed from the NBA Finals at that point.

[ginobli2311]

Bird and Magic were fortunate that they were paired with Kareem/Worthy ++
and McHale/Parish ++ right from the get go.

Not really LeBron's fault that he wasn't drafted into similar circumstances.

How is this really all that different from Kobe crying about Odom + Butler not being good enough of a supporting cast for him, then threatening to leave a season or two later, and the Lakers basically having to be bailed out by a home run trade that brought in Gasol?

How many years would Kobe have tolerated Mo Williams being his best no.2 option.

Haters gonna hate either way. There are people still pissed at Shaq for leaving Orlando 14 years ago.

exactly.

[bsyde82]

Ginobli, your criticism of Kobe in the finals is not without some well-argued points. However, can you please stop using the word "disappear" when describing his performances? In no way, shape or form did the guy "disappear" - he may not have played up to his lofty standards, but he certainly didn't "disappear" - maybe that's now what you really meant to say, but that word carries with it pretty significant implications, and if so, that would be a severely unfair assessment of Kobe's finals performances.

Even if Lebron plays well, there will still be a large contingent of critics that will simply say (unfairly or not) that he NEEDED another #1 mega star (I know you know what I mean by this). And if you bring up his efficient stats, those critics will say that having wade/bosh made it a whole lot easier for him. This is entirely predictable Now is that fair? I don't know.

Out of the 3 dynasties you listed that didn't have mega teams, I would say the spurs are the only one that had to go through a mega team to win the title. I'm not even sure what the implications of that statement are, but I felt compelled to mention it.

I doubt your prediction that no one will be arguing who's better - wade or bron. I mean, look at this forum!! and how every topic of who's better, etc etc has been beaten to death, and then some. It's gonna be argued, because honestly, if it plays out in a way that both Bron and Wade still shine statistically, then you'll have a debate on your hands the basketball world has never seen. You can't tell me that won't be argued til the end of time.

Now, if Bron ended up still leading his team in scoring/assists and maintained his rebounding avgs, AND is clearly the GUY in crunchtime situations, then I mostly agree with you, he'll still have a chance to reach his potential legacy wise...or 90% there. I can't see Wade being ok with that though...


lol.

if this happens. its going to all depend on how well lebron plays....AS IT SHOULD. if he puts up 25 points 8 boards and 8 assists a game on high efficiency and the heat win a bunch of titles.......nobody is going to say anything.

the only reason people bring up stacked teams with kobe is because he has disappeared so often in the nba finals and in big moments. you think anyone would be harping on how good gasol and fisher are if it was kobe shooting 50% and making all the big shots? hell no.

this whole legacy thing is getting out of control shaq and kobe won three titles together and shaq is in the top 8 all time and at his peak was better than either wade or lebron. magic had worthy and kareem. bird had mchale and parish and other great teammates. every dynasty in the history of the league has been super stacked.

hakeem's back to back titles were not loaded
duncan's teams were not loaded
jordan's teams were very good....but not loaded like all the other dynasties.

thats it. only hakeem, duncan, and jordan have won without having "mega teams"....that is it.

people aren't going to talk about who is better between wade and lebron. they are going to talk about how they are the best combo ever if they are winning titles. trust me.....if lebron is winning a bunch of titles and playing well in the process its not going to hurt him at all. in fact, if lebron goes to miami.....my prediction is that he goes down as the 2nd best player of all time.

[sosolid4u09]

ginobli you dont get it. The difference with lebron here is that he is choosing to play with wade and bosh himself! Its basically a self admission that he couldnt get it done as the man in cleveland and had to leave and join wade! Shaq and kobe didnt chose to play with shaq and kobe! This is lebron james making the decision himself.

I agree with you that lakers would still be favourites and have the better TEAM. And if lebron won a ring with them its still an achievement. He will still get credit for it as he should. But no way in hell would he get the same credit as if he won in cleveland or with amare in nyk.

Compare it to kobe even. You can say gasol is better than bosh but wade is ten times better than the third option on the lakers atm! Also at miami it wouldnt even be clear that lebron iss the leader. Id still rather give that job to wade! So with that in mind i dont think lebron would get anywhere near the credit winning with miami than he would winning with amare or boozer or in cleveland!

So of course winning a ring in miami is better than not winning one.
But winning in cleveland or nyk or chicago is much much better for his legacy than winning with miami.

[ThaRegul8r]

so we should fault lebron because he didn't come into the league and play with multiple hall of famers.

its a no win for him. he doesn't have even close to enough to win multiple titles in cleveland and then you call him a ring chaser if he leaves. sorry.....not everyone enters the league and gets to play with a top 8 player of all time like kobe and magic both did.

Russell never played with a Top 8 Player of All Time. Neither did Bird. Neither did Jordan. Neither did Hakeem. Neither did Duncan. Neither did Rick Barry. Neither did Isiah Thomas. Need I go on? And none of them went to a team with a their era equivalent of what Wade is right now.


lebron got mo williams/jamison. bird got mchale and parrish with very good coaching and role players.

BEFORE McHale and Parish, Bird was responsible for a 32-game turnaround from the second-worst record in the league to the best record in the league starting and an Eastern Conference Finals berth in year one. And if you're equating McHale and Parish's standing in the league to what Dwayne Wade is right now today, you're delusional.

you make it sound like lebron failed to win on a bunch of great teams or something. please leave lebron. the cavs will lose about 25 more games next year and might not make the playoffs.


so every other player in history outside of dunacan and hakeem can play with stacked teams and multiple hall of famers and truly elite top ten of all time guys....but lebron can't? why?

How many of the top ten GOATs didn't win for years and went to a team with a their era equivalent of what Dwayne Wade is right now at this point in his career? Start naming people.

People say LeBron can potentially be the GOAT. That's a heavy burden. This would be trying to take the easy way.

[ThaRegul8r]

this whole legacy thing is getting out of control shaq and kobe won three titles together and shaq is in the top 8 all time and at his peak was better than either wade or lebron.

And that's why we've never heard anything about Kobe needing to win without Shaq to establish his legacy.

:rolleyes:

[Soundwave]

Kobe started complaining like a baby just a year after losing Shaq, he couldn't take it anymore, wanted out, wanted trades, Odom + Butler weren't good enough (I mean, lol, Butler + Odom are probably better no.2 and no.3 options than LeBron has ever had), etc. etc. etc.

LeBron's put his time in in Cleveland. If he's willing to take less money to play on a better team ... suddenly he's in the wrong for that?

I don't buy it. I think it's just a bunch of people afraid the Heat will win 4 or 5 titles.

[ginobli2311]

Russell never played with a Top 8 Player of All Time. Neither did Bird. Neither did Jordan. Neither did Hakeem. Neither did Duncan. Neither did Rick Barry. Neither did Isiah Thomas. Need I go on? And none of them went to a team with a their era equivalent of what Wade is right now.



BEFORE McHale and Parish, Bird was responsible for a 32-game turnaround from the second-worst record in the league to the best record in the league starting and an Eastern Conference Finals berth in year one. And if you're equating McHale and Parish's standing in the league to what Dwayne Wade is right now today, you're delusional.

you make it sound like lebron failed to win on a bunch of great teams or something. please leave lebron. the cavs will lose about 25 more games next year and might not make the playoffs.



How many of the top ten GOATs didn't win for years and went to a team with a their era equivalent of what Dwayne Wade is right now at this point in his career? Start naming people.

People say LeBron can potentially be the GOAT. That's a heavy burden. This would be trying to take the easy way.


i never said any of those guys did play with a top 8 player. just like wade is not even close to the top 8.....so i don't get your point.

did lebron not turn around the cavs? are you serious? the cavs won like 17 games i think before lebron. they won 35 in his first year....and he came out of high school....LOL
42 in his 2nd year.....and they had lost boozer
50 in his 3rd year
50 in his 4th year
45 in his 5th year
66 in his 6th year
61 in his 7th year

LOL. what do you expect him to do? or are you one of those morons that think the current cavs squad is on par with the lakers and celtics and magic??????

[ginobli2311]

And that's why we've never heard anything about Kobe needing to win without Shaq to establish his legacy.

:rolleyes:

big difference. shaq was clearly the leader of that team and its best player. if kobe had won a couple finals mvps....or simply just played better on the biggest stage you would not hear about that.

again....it all comes down to level of play. if lebron sucks ass in the finals for a decade and wins 5 rings. then yes.....its going to diminish his legacy for sure.

but if lebron wins a bunch of titles and some finals mvps and plays great......it won't ever be brought up. that is why your logic is so off on this discussion.

[G-train]

I don't see it as a ***** move.

Magic played with Kareem and Worthy, thats a better trio.

[ginobli2311]

Kobe started complaining like a baby just a year after losing Shaq, he couldn't take it anymore, wanted out, wanted trades, Odom + Butler weren't good enough (I mean, lol, Butler + Odom are probably better no.2 and no.3 options than LeBron has ever had), etc. etc. etc.

LeBron's put his time in in Cleveland. If he's willing to take less money to play on a better team ... suddenly he's in the wrong for that?

I don't buy it. I think it's just a bunch of people afraid the Heat will win 4 or 5 titles.

yep.

exactly.

that is why the idiots on here and the common fan don't understand the game. they think wade/lebron/bosh is unfair......but kobe/gasol/bynum/artest/fisher/odom is just some average team that kobe elevated to a title.

gasol is better than bosh
a healthy bynum brings a ton to the table in the playoffs
fisher is one of the most clutch role players ever
odom is one of the best bench players in the league
artest is still a great defender
kobe is a top 3 player in the league
this team has great chemistry and defined roles by position
they have the greatest coach of all time

sorry.....wade/lebron/bosh with a bunch of minimum contract guys and spoelstra as coach is not better at all on paper or on the court. it would be fun to watch.....but to act like its the most stacked team ever is just plain stupid.

coaching and role players and defense are vital to winning titles in the nba. stop ignoring how important coaching is people.......only 8 coaches have won a title in the last 25 years. think about that.

[ThaRegul8r]

i never said any of those guys did play with a top 8 player. just like wade is not even close to the top 8.....so i don't get your point.

You said that for Magic, I was pointing out the rest didn't. And none of them played with a player in their era who would be the equivalent of what Dwayne Wade is right now, at this point in his career, at his current age.


did lebron not turn around the cavs? are you serious? the cavs won like 17 games i think before lebron. they won 35 in his first year....and he came out of high school....LOL
42 in his 2nd year.....and they had lost boozer
50 in his 3rd year
50 in his 4th year
45 in his 5th year
66 in his 6th year
61 in his 7th year

LOL. what do you expect him to do? or are you one of those morons that think the current cavs squad is on par with the lakers and celtics and magic??????

Ad hominem attacks are unnecessary. Address what I'm saying. Look at Jordan's path on the Bulls since he's who everyone's comparing him to.


big difference. shaq was clearly the leader of that team and its best player. if kobe had won a couple finals mvps....or simply just played better on the biggest stage you would not hear about that.

It was brought up because Kobe was being continually compared to Michael Jordan. It probably wouldn't have been brought up if people weren't so intent on anointing him the new Greatest Basketball Player of All Time.

[ginobli2311]

You said that for Magic, I was pointing out the rest didn't. And none of them played with a player in their era who would be the equivalent of what Dwayne Wade is right now, at this point in his career, at his current age.



Ad hominem attacks are unnecessary. Address what I'm saying. Look at Jordan's path on the Bulls since he's who everyone's comparing him to.



It was brought up because Kobe was being continually compared to Michael Jordan. It probably wouldn't have been brought up if people weren't so intent on anointing him the new Greatest Basketball Player of All Time.

i totally agree.

that is the point. if bosh had come to the cavs lebron would have for sure stayed and his career path would be very similar to jordan. jordan broke through and won in year 7. lebron and bosh in cleveland would probably have won a title next year or the year after.

but bosh didn't go there. so now he is stuck. the cavs are not close to winning a title. they needed a big time top 15 player in the league. they aren't getting that. he has to leave if he wants to win.

agree somewhat about the kobe/jordan comparisons. but nobody would be hating on kobe at all if he played better in the finals. kobe set his own standards far higher than his play in the nba finals for his career. i think that is the biggest factor.

here is my main point. if lebron goes to miami and wins.....and plays well....most people will not focus on how much help he had. help only enters the conversation if you play poorly and win. so level of play is the biggest factor in my opinion.

now....the kicker.

lebron would not face any of this legacy stuff if he went to the bulls. but that is what is so absurd and is a tell tale sign that the average fan and poster on here don't understand the game.

the bulls with lebron/boozer/rose/noah is a much better team than what lebron/bosh/wade would be. i don't even think its close. the bulls would have more defined roles and already have a great young center in place to defend and board and protect the rime. lebron would clearly be the alpha dog. boozer is great in the pick and roll and would have no problem only taking 12 shots a game. rose would be somewhat of a question mark....but he could focus on defense and attacking more than he does now because it will open so much up for him on the court with offensive weapons like lebron/boozer.

thats the point. the bulls with lebron are far more talented and would just flat out be better than this "mega team".....yet lebron will take more "heat" going to miami than he would chicago.

and the inherent flaw in most average fans and posters on here is shown....they confuse spectacular with great and star with win.

[Tez62]

I don't see it as a ***** move.

Magic played with Kareem and Worthy, thats a better trio.


Why do people keep bringing this up? Pre-expansion, they had to go through another dynasty team in Boston, and 2 of the championship years KAJ was well past his prime. This is seriously a terrible comparison.

[ginobli2311]

Why do people keep bringing this up? Pre-expansion, they had to go through another dynasty team in Boston, and 2 of the championship years KAJ was well past his prime. This is seriously a terrible comparison.

how so?

are the current lakers not on the verge of a dynasty? 3 finals trips in 3 years with 2 titles. 2 hall of famers with a well built team and the greatest coach ever.

the nba has always been top heavy. it was back in the 80s and it still is now. you need a great supporting cast and great coaching to win as a star. this has always been true.

[RazorBaLade]

the lakers overrating begins..

[chopchop20]

Point 1 : they pair up means they spilt their career averages. they all cant average 28ppg.

Bosh with either is a good pair...both with bosh? bad idea.

And yes...if they get to the finals and loose to the lakers its over...If the lakers lost it would not be as bad as them losing. Also i still believe the lakers can beat them...

Pau Gasol, ron Artest, Lamar, Steve Blake, kobe, Bynum, fisher...lol champions

vs 3 superstars and a team of scrubs...is bosh going to out rebound the laker bigs?

Is lebron and wade going to take turns in possesion getting to the rim?

BRING IT

+1 :applause:

Yall think the Lakers are gonna role over for the Heat? If they want the championship, they gotta come and take it

[Micku]

Meh, I don't care if he goes to the Heat. B-ball fans focus too much on the indivdual too much. Why even have teams?

But, I do think if they keep the top 5 seperate on different teams, it does better for ratings and competition. I think teams should provide as much competition as they could so they could provide for better entertainment. I rather see Wade vs LeBron than Wade and LeBron teaming up.

But I don't care much if they team up or not. They still need to build a team.

[clayton]

If so, then Celtics are the biggest b*tches ever.

[chopchop20]

big difference. shaq was clearly the leader of that team and its best player. if kobe had won a couple finals mvps....or simply just played better on the biggest stage you would not hear about that.

again....it all comes down to level of play. if lebron sucks ass in the finals for a decade and wins 5 rings. then yes.....its going to diminish his legacy for sure.

but if lebron wins a bunch of titles and some finals mvps and plays great......it won't ever be brought up. that is why your logic is so off on this discussion.

Kobe's legacy is dminished in comparison to LeBron? :rolleyes:

[ginobli2311]

Kobe's legacy is dminished in comparison to LeBron? :rolleyes:

how could you possibly gather that from what i just wrote....seriously?

[plowking]

The only reason I don't want Lebron in Miami would be because we'd have that annoying fact-regurgitating f*ck Lebron23 following us around everywhere in Heat threads. I just know I won't be able to have a single decent conversation about my team if this was to happen.

[Gundress]

The only reason I don't want Lebron in Miami would be because we'd have that annoying fact-regurgitating f*ck Lebron23 following us around everywhere in Heat threads. I just know I won't be able to have a single decent conversation about my team if this was to happen.


:roll: :roll:

[chopchop20]

The only reason I don't want Lebron in Miami would be because we'd have that annoying fact-regurgitating f*ck Lebron23 following us around everywhere in Heat threads. I just know I won't be able to have a single decent conversation about my team if this was to happen.

I hope that he does go to Miami cuz I can't wait for the Lakers to play them.

[plowking]

I hope that he does go to Miami cuz I can't wait for the Lakers to play them.

You like losing?

[LA_Showtime]

You like losing?

Hey, it's impossible to predict the future. While Wade, Bosh, and LeBron would easily be favorites for a title, it's not like they wouldn't have to work for it. They'd have to find pieces to fit around them, play defense, and sacrifice their games for the betterment of the team. I'd welcome a challenge; it would be good for the Lakers and the NBA.

[plowking]

Hey, it's impossible to predict the future. While Wade, Bosh, and LeBron would easily be favorites for a title, it's not like they wouldn't have to work for it. They'd have to find pieces to fit around them, play defense, and sacrifice their games for the betterment of the team. I'd welcome a challenge; it would be good for the Lakers and the NBA.

You'd get swept in 4. Not trying to be an ass, but it's just the truth. You may win 1 game, though I doubt it.

[KB2clutch]

if lebron wants to win a championship, joining the heats is his best chance, otherwise wade and bosh would knock him out for the rest of his career plus the lakers need a challenge, its not fun when you know your gonna win

[chopchop20]

You like losing?

Lakers aren't gonna lose it in a basketball forum