LeBron James as the next Michael Jordan

[ImmortalD24]

Now that LeBron has a good 2nd and 3rd options, What does LeBron have to accomplish to reach MJ level of greatness?

[Scoooter]

Kill Dwyane Wade.

[Sarcastic]

Now that LeBron has a good 2nd and 3rd options, What does LeBron have to accomplish to reach MJ level of greatness?

He has to win 4 in a row, then retire for 1.5 years, then come back and win 4 in a row again. If he does that, then he may have a case for GOAT.

[flipogb]

he still hasn't put pen to paper

so id go with , Change his mind and sign with the Knicks

[mamba24]

Now that LeBron has a good 2nd and 3rd options, What does LeBron have to accomplish to reach MJ level of greatness?

what are you smoking man...lebrons the greatest second banana ever...he must now be compared with scottie pippen...lol...MJ is way out of his league..

when you look up into the stars and you see a star...you blink and you dont recognize which star it was...well thats how far MJ is.

[KOBEDAGAWD]

Has a legit second option? First time i heard that
Wade has gotten himself a great second option

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kill Dwyane Wade.

:roll:

[ImmortalD24]

Has a legit second option? First time i heard that
Wade has gotten himself a great second option Since when is the 2nd option better than the first? Clearly LeBron to everyone in basketball outside of a few Heat fans has been the better player, so that makes Wade the 2nd option, the Pippen to LeBron's Jordan.

I was told there is no 1 A or B, B= 2nd option.. end of story.

[Sarcastic]

Since when is the 2nd option better than the first? Clearly LeBron to everyone in basketball outside of a few Heat fans has been the better player, so that makes Wade the 2nd option, the Pippen to LeBron's Jordan.

I was told there is no 1 A or B, B= 2nd option.. end of story.

When you put your tail between your legs and crawl to another superstar to join his team, you renounce you A rights, and become a B.

[Soundwave]

LeBron's game never really seemed to be like MJ's to me.

It was always evident his physical ability (6 foot 9) and natural style of play was more comparable to Magic Johnson, not Michael Jordan.

So I think LeBron should just go back to playing that style. Point forward, run n' gun the offense. He'll still get his 20-28 ppg, but he can increase his assist totals and triple double totals big time now.

[KOBEDAGAWD]

Since when is the 2nd option better than the first? Clearly LeBron to everyone in basketball outside of a few Heat fans has been the better player, so that makes Wade the 2nd option, the Pippen to LeBron's Jordan.

I was told there is no 1 A or B, B= 2nd option.. end of story.
Its Wades team and he has already won a finals MVP & Championship.
Just because Lebron is overrated doesnt make it his team.
He will be 2nd fiddle to Wade.

[Lakers13]

Wades city, Wade's team. For now.

[Fatal9]

LeBron James as the next Michael Jordan
http://e-basil.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/normal_NotSureIfSerious.jpg

[Soundwave]

Miami will be LeBron's team in 2 years at most.

By then Wade will be 30, and will probably need to slow down a bit.

No one is going to care that Wade won a Finals MVP in 2006 when 2012 rolls around.

[knickscity]

He can't be compared to Jordan anymore.

Jordan didn't join someone else's team to try to win. Players came to him.

His game will more resemble Magic now.

He won't surpass Jordan now, no matter how many rings he get.

[Sarcastic]

Miami will be LeBron's team in 2 years at most.

By then Wade will be 30, and will probably need to slow down a bit.

No one is going to care that Wade won a Finals MVP in 2006 when 2012 rolls around.

How many title winning superstars did Jordan play with in order to get his first title?

You think playing with Wade is just some little thing that will be passed on as a simple anecdote?

[Soundwave]

How many title winning superstars did Jordan play with in order to get his first title?

You think playing with Wade is just some little thing that will be passed on as a simple anecdote?

It doesn't have to be passed on because here's a dirty little secret ... hate LeBron all you want, but he's a better basketball talent than Dwayne Wade.

And he's over 5 inches taller and three years younger and can simply do more things on the court.

Eventually the cream will rise to the top, even if you don't like the taste of it.

Wade should be happy though. This is going to extend the life of his career big time.

Lets not act like Wade did something unbelievable either ... he beat a Dallas team that's worse than the Spurs in the Finals with Shaq as his sidekick, who was better than whoever the hell LeBron's no.2 was in 2007 (Boogie Gibson? LOL).

[Sarcastic]

It doesn't have to be passed on because here's a dirty little secret ... hate LeBron all you want, but he's a better basketball talent than Dwayne Wade.

And he's over 5 inches taller and three years younger and can simply do more things on the court.

Eventually the cream will rise to the top, even if you don't like the taste of it.

Wade should be happy though. This is going to extend the life of his career big time.

Lets not act like Wade did something unbelievable either ... he beat a Dallas team that's worse than the Spurs in the Finals with Shaq as his sidekick, who was better than whoever the hell LeBron's no.2 was in 2007 (Boogie Gibson? LOL).

I am perfectly aware of Lebron's talent. He has potential to be top 3 GOAT. The fact that he showed no heart and had to join another superstar, pulls him out of top 10, and he will probably never get there.

Arod has more talent than Jeter, but the Yankees will always be Jeter's team, even if Arod outplays him.

[madmax]

I am perfectly aware of Lebron's talent. He has potential to be top 3 GOAT. The fact that he showed no heart and had to join another superstar, pulls him out of top 10, and he will probably never get there.

Arod has more talent than Jeter, but the Yankees will always be Jeter's team, even if Arod outplays him.
it doesn't matter if you think he shows "no heart" or whatever BS you come up with - history will remember Bron's rings and his spectacular stats in the future. No one cares now that Jordan had a stacked team in the 90's - everyone just talks about his rings and Final MVP's. And Lebron is not gonna be second banana to anyone, because the best players are naturally the ones, leading the teams to the glory.

[Sarcastic]

it doesn't matter if you think he shows "no heart" or whatever BS you come up with - history will remember Bron's rings and his spectacular stats in the future. No one cares now that Jordan had a stacked team in the 90's - everyone just talks about his rings and Final MVP's. And Lebron is not gonna be second banana to anyone, because the best players are naturally the ones, leading the teams to the glory.

People will remember this. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. It won't just be "Lebron won x rings". The circumstances around them will be known, just as they are known for every player who ever won one.

People don't just say "Russell won 11 rings, so he is GOAT". People remember exactly how many hall of famers he played with, and how few Wilt played with.

[Soundwave]

People will remember this. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. It won't just be "Lebron won x rings". The circumstances around them will be known, just as they are known for every player who ever won one.

People don't just say "Russell won 11 rings, so he is GOAT". People remember exactly how many hall of famers he played with, and how few Wilt played with.

Do people remember that Shaq went running from a much better Orlando team (just one year removed from the NBA Finals) for far more trivial reasons?

Dude friggin' left a great situation in Orlando because he was jealous of a wooden puppet in a Nike commercial and wanted to do more crap movies in L.A.

No one remembers that anymore, save for a few bitter people in Orlando.

[cotdt]

Lebron would be the next Magic Johnson if he wins 5 rings. He's a point forward with a somewhat similar playing style.

[Sarcastic]

Do people remember that Shaq went running from a much better Orlando team (just one year removed from the NBA Finals) for far more trivial reasons?

Dude friggin' left Orlando because he was jealous of a wooden puppet in a Nike commercial and wanted to do more crap movies in L.A.

No one remembers that anymore, save for a few bitter people in Orlando.

I remember. He didn't leave to ring chase though. The fact that he left a better team for a worse one, just shows how great he was. He rebuilt LA into a contender and champion.

[Soundwave]

I remember. He didn't leave to ring chase though. The fact that he left a better team for a worse one, just shows how great he was. He rebuilt LA into a contender and champion.

Uh ... no he left for completely dumb and petty reasons. And the Lakers were about equal to the Magic (in terms of supporting cast) at that point.

At least with LeBron, hate the guy or not, you can't say his decision was based on superficial reasons. He wants to win, and he gave up a lot of money and a ton of endorsements/prestige/spotlight from New York to finally be on a team that has other player's that are high end talent.

I just find it to be funny hypocrisy that he would be applauded for going to New York (more endorsements) or staying in Cleveland (for money, because looking at that roster they sure as hell don't have a future) ... but is hated on for going to Miami because it provides the best situation to win in.

[Kobe8]

Dont Compare Lebrona To MJ , Theirs Now Way Hes Gonna Be Great as Michael Jordan , Lebron Isnt even in Kobe's Level , Look At Where Kobe was before when Le'Diva is at now...

Huge Difference.

People will start ridin them wagons 1 by 1. :hammerhead:

[Sarcastic]

Uh ... no he left for completely dumb and petty reasons. And the Lakers were about equal to the Magic (in terms of supporting cast) at that point.

At least with LeBron, hate the guy or not, you can't say his decision was based on superficial reasons. He wants to win, and he gave up a lot of money and a ton of endorsements/prestige/spotlight from New York to finally be on a team that has other player's that are high end talent.

I just find it to be funny hypocrisy that he would be applauded for going to New York (more endorsements) or staying in Cleveland (for money, because looking at that roster they sure as hell don't have a future) ... but is hated on for going to Miami because it provides the best situation to win in.


Are you kidding me? The Lakers didn't have anything close to Hardaway, Horace Grant, or Nick Anderson. They had rookie Kobe, 2nd year Eddie Jones, Nick the Quick, and Cedric Ceballos.

Going to NY or staying in Cleveland would have meant he was playing with a team built around him. Going to Miami shows he wants to just be a piece of the puzzle to help DWade.

[Sarcastic]

You can question whether this will be remembered or not, but the fact is this is the only thing that everyone is talking about.

His legacy is over. It is now wrapped around Wade's ****.

[kobesabi]

He CAN NOT and will NEVER be in the same level of greatness even if he wins a few because he broke the cardinal rule of greatness: "King of Kings will stay at their post and fight to the end rather than givein". King don't abandon their castle and run when the battle gets tough. King recruit warriors like Wade did to HIS team. People will always remember it as Wade's team...or Duo, Trio, or Diva 3, but will not be LeBron's team in history book.

[Soundwave]

Are you kidding me? The Lakers didn't have anything close to Hardaway, Horace Grant, or Nick Anderson. They had rookie Kobe, 2nd year Eddie Jones, Nick the Quick, and Cedric Ceballos.

Going to NY or staying in Cleveland would have meant he was playing with a team built around him. Going to Miami shows he wants to just be a piece of the puzzle to help DWade.

Uh I'd say Elden Campbell + Divac (who wasn't traded at the time of the Shaq singing) + Nick Van Exel + Eddie Jones + Cedric Ceballos was a pretty well thought of young core at the time.

People forget about sh-t in two years time. If this can blow over:

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/03/12/1205348629_2265/499w.jpg

*Anything* can blow over. The awkward press event that LeBron gave is small potatoes compared to the above.

Short of killing someone (and even then ... lol) athletes can get away with anything, as long as they win in the end.

[kap]

I think everyone is being a little too harsh on him. What would you do if you were in his shoes? he's not perfect.

btw, i can't wait to see miami not winning any rings. this will be epic fail of the decade :D

[Soundwave]

He CAN NOT and will NEVER be in the same level of greatness even if he wins a few because he broke the cardinal rule of greatness: "King of Kings will stay at their post and fight to the end rather than givein". King don't abandon their castle and run when the battle gets tough. King recruit warriors like Wade did to HIS team. People will always remember it as Wade's team...or Duo, Trio, or Diva 3, but will not be LeBron's team in history book.

You forgot the one provision:

"Kings don't abandon their castle ... unless thou is offered plush movie role as a genie in Los Angeles ..."

http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/the941/files/2010/03/kazaam.jpg

[Sarcastic]

Uh I'd say Elden Campbell + Divac (who wasn't traded at the time of the Shaq singing) + Nick Van Exel + Eddie Jones + Cedric Ceballos was a pretty well thought of young core at the time.

People forget about sh-t in two years time. If this can blow over:

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/03/12/1205348629_2265/499w.jpg

*Anything* can blow over. The awkward press event that LeBron gave is small potatoes compared to the above.

Short of killing someone (and even then ... lol) athletes can get away with anything, as long as they win in the end.


You must really love Lebron James.

[Soundwave]

You must really love Lebron James.

Not really. Just downplaying some of the over dramatic drama queens here.

Ask any sports agent if they'd rather deal with the above sh-t or today's thing. I don't have to tell you what their answer would be.

[Sarcastic]

You forgot the one provision:

"Kings don't abandon their castle ... unless thou is offered plush movie role as a genie in Los Angeles ..."

http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/the941/files/2010/03/kazaam.jpg

That movie came out before he went to LA.

[Soundwave]

That movie came out before he went to LA.

You must really love Shaq :oldlol:

You're right though, this is the masterpiece that Shaq moved his career for:

http://www.pinkraygun.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/512jnat06yl.jpg

Gotta respect that.

[Sarcastic]

You must really love Shaq :oldlol:

You're right though, this is the masterpiece that Shaq moved his career for:

http://www.pinkraygun.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/512jnat06yl.jpg

Gotta respect that.

Have I been making posts for 9 hours defending him?
I personally hate Shaq, but if you are gonna reference him at least get the facts correct.

[Soundwave]

Have I been making posts for 9 hours defending him?
I personally hate Shaq, but if you are gonna reference him at least get the facts correct.

The facts are correct. The dude left Orlando and devastated that franchise for the most petty and laughably lame reasons ever. At least LeBron had a semi-legit case that he could make ... he wants to win, so he went to a better team, leaving more money/prestige on the table.

And four years later when Shaq won the title, I don't even remember one person person uttering a word about his days with the Magic.

[mamba24]

The facts are correct. The dude left Orlando and devastated that franchise for the most petty and laughably lame reasons ever. At least LeBron had a semi-legit case that he could make ... he wants to win, so he went to a better team, leaving more money/prestige on the table.

And four years later when Shaq won the title, I don't even remember one person person uttering a word about his days with the Magic.

shaq went to LA but besides a young kobe who was not even top 10 then.

you cant compare 3 players in their prime who happen to be two top 3 players and one top 10 player in the current nba.

lets see how their egos do

[entropy35]

Lebron will probably have to average close to a triple double each year he wins a title. Plus he should win around 5-6. Then he will be better than Jordan. Fact.

[kobesabi]

*Anything* can blow over. The awkward press event that LeBron gave is small potatoes compared to the above.

Short of killing someone (and even then ... lol) athletes can get away with anything, as long as they win in the end.
1 mentally unstable gold digger psychotic chic is very small potato compared to Tiger Woods 120 affairs/mistresses. LeDiva just picked up at least 6 more armies of haters. Congrats!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods

[Soundwave]

1 mentally unstable gold digger psychotic chic is very small potato compared to Tiger Woods 120 affairs/mistresses. LeDiva just picked up at least 6 more armies of haters. Congrats!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods

Big black athlete charged with raping pretty blond white girl doesn't play too well in Middle America or David Stern's "McDonalds-friendly" idea of pro sports.

Short of Kobe pulling an OJ, that pretty much was the worst possible thing he could've done.

Not only that, but it was followed by the gong show of the Kobe-Shaq "divorce" which was really, really, really ugly.

That was like one straight year of the worst PR you could possibly imagine for an athlete.

Tiger Woods probably takes the cake though. But even that ... in a few years if he goes back to winning, that will blow over too.

[Sarcastic]

The facts are correct. The dude left Orlando and devastated that franchise for the most petty and laughably lame reasons ever. At least LeBron had a semi-legit case that he could make ... he wants to win, so he went to a better team, leaving more money/prestige on the table.

And four years later when Shaq won the title, I don't even remember one person person uttering a word about his days with the Magic.


I know Shaq left Orlando and ruined the franchise for years. He was wrong to do it. I am not defending it. I am also not putting Shaq anywhere close to MJ on the GOAT list. If you are fine with keeping Lebron far away from Jordan on the GOAT list, then that is fine with me.

[kobesabi]

Not really. Just downplaying some of the over dramatic drama queens here.

Ask any sports agent if they'd rather deal with the above sh-t or today's thing. I don't have to tell you what their answer would be.
And the biggest and grandest drama queen of all time of course goes to LeBron for making a 1 hour special to sh1t on his team internationally. He gets the crown of LeDiva for running from his king position to queen position for sitting beside king Wade.

[Sarcastic]

Lebron will probably have to average close to a triple double each year he wins a title. Plus he should win around 5-6. Then he will be better than Jordan. Fact.

Still won't be.

In another post I said what he must do.
Win 4, then retire for 1.5 years, then win another 4. If he does that, then he is better than Jordan.

If you want to be better than the best, you have to do better than the best.

[kobesabi]

Big black athlete charged with raping pretty blond white girl doesn't play too well in Middle America or David Stern's "McDonalds-friendly" idea of pro sports.

Short of Kobe pulling an OJ, that pretty much was the worst possible thing he could've done.

Not only that, but it was followed by the gong show of the Kobe-Shaq "divorce" which was really, really, really ugly.

That was like one straight year of the worst PR you could possibly imagine for an athlete.

Tiger Woods probably takes the cake though. But even that ... in a few years if he goes back to winning, that will blow over too.
Did you ever read the outcome? FYI, case was dismissed. So stop smearing someone with false wording. Is this the best credibility you have? Only haters play this game. Also, OJ never admits. Kobe admit he has an affair but never rape cuz there were no real evidence of it. OJ don't have the balls to admit the mistake.


With jury selection under way, the criminal case was dropped late Wednesday by prosecutors who said the 20-year-old woman accusing Bryant of rape had decided not to participate.
She probably was just faking it and afraid she blew it if her testify don't add up.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/5861379/

Anyway, at least Kobe defends his own castle. Unlike self-declared "King" LeDiva abandon ship and wants to be known as GOAT. I'm sorry but that will never in principle of greatness. Never. If he wins any, it will be second class behind Kobe, MJ, Bird, or even Wade. :lol

[bagelred]

Kill Dwyane Wade.

LOL

[Duncan21formvp]

Since when is the 2nd option better than the first? Clearly LeBron to everyone in basketball outside of a few Heat fans has been the better player, so that makes Wade the 2nd option, the Pippen to LeBron's Jordan.

I was told there is no 1 A or B, B= 2nd option.. end of story.

Disagree. The Best player in the league doesn't go to another team that has an established player that already won a title as the man who is a top 3 player as well.

[Soundwave]

Disagree. The Best player in the league doesn't go to another team that has an established player that already won a title as the man who is a top 3 player as well.

I don't really even know if Wade is a top 3 player. I mean suddenly he is, but a week ago top three was

Kobe/LeBron/Dwight I thought with Durant coming on up, lol.

This is more like Jordan in a parrallel universe if the Bulls had never drafted Pippen or Grant leaving to team with Clyde Drexler or something perhaps in Portland.

It's not like the Heat are some dynasty franchise. They've been pretty mediocre to average (at best) overall actually for the last four years.

They were an average team with Wade, above average with Bosh, but hardly a championship favorite.

It's not like LeBron went running to the Lakers. Now THAT would be a ring chaser. In Miami ... the Heat must have LeBron to be a contender. Bosh + Wade doesn't cut it.

[Yung D-Will]

Since when is the 2nd option better than the first? Clearly LeBron to everyone in basketball outside of a few Heat fans has been the better player, so that makes Wade the 2nd option, the Pippen to LeBron's Jordan.

I was told there is no 1 A or B, B= 2nd option.. end of story.
Are you delusional this is Wade's team.

Just like if Lebron went to the Laker's it would still be Kobe's team

[Soundwave]

Are you delusional this is Wade's team.

Just like if Lebron went to the Laker's it would still be Kobe's team

Don't you kinda have to "earn" that? Basketball teams aren't like McDonalds franchises where Ronald McDonald is the big fish no matter what.

If one player is better than the other players on that team .... then it becomes his team.

If LeBron over time shows himself to be a superior basketball talent to Wade ... it will become his team.

But really ... who even cares? Who's team is the Boston Celtics? Do they look like they even care? Looks to me like they're too busy competing for NBA titles. One person says KG runs it because they did nothing without him. Someone else says Allen. Someone else says Pierce. And now people are saying it's Rondo's team, lol.

[Sarcastic]

I don't really even know if Wade is a top 3 player. I mean suddenly he is, but a week ago top three was

Kobe/LeBron/Dwight I thought with Durant coming on up, lol.

This is more like Jordan in a parrallel universe if the Bulls had never drafted Pippen or Grant leaving to team with Clyde Drexler or something perhaps in Portland.

It's not like the Heat are some dynasty franchise. They've been pretty mediocre to average (at best) overall actually for the last four years.

They were an average team with Wade, above average with Bosh, but hardly a championship favorite.

It's not like LeBron went running to the Lakers. Now THAT would be a ring chaser. In Miami ... the Heat must have LeBron to be a contender. Bosh + Wade doesn't cut it.

I think it's time for you to get off of Lebron's nuts for a little while. Now you are under the assumption that Wade is not top 3. :confusedshrug:

[godofgods]

Kill Dwyane Wade.

This is the correct answer.
10 straight championships with Wade will not make him better than Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell, Olajuwon, Duncan, Kareem, even Isiah Thomas.

[Soundwave]

I think it's time for you to get off of Lebron's nuts for a little while. Now you are under the assumption that Wade is not top 3. :confusedshrug:

So your issue is basically that Wade is too good.

LeBron should've chosen a supporting cast that was only a "7.5" instead of one that was a "9".

I mean really, who cares. That's his call. If I was leaving $30 million dollars on the table for the sole reasoning of wanting to win, then you bet your ass I'd pick the team I'd have the best shot of winning with.

[knickscity]

Lebron has said time and time again he did all that scoring because that was what the team needed him to do.

Doesn't make sense to me though. I though he was playing to his talents.

But no he isn't anything near Jordan. Jordan's competitive nature alone would have prevented him from playing with a rival to win.

Jordan as much as he was friends with Ewing was perfectly happy to kick his butt every year.

Never thought of joining him, neither did Ewing.

[DinoRadja40]

He can't be compared to Jordan anymore.

Jordan didn't join someone else's team to try to win. Players came to him.

His game will more resemble Magic now.

He won't surpass Jordan now, no matter how many rings he get.

this

/thread

[Soundwave]

Lebron has said time and time again he did all that scoring because that was what the team needed him to do.

Doesn't make sense to me though. I though he was playing to his talents.

But no he isn't anything near Jordan. Jordan's competitive nature alone would have prevented him from playing with a rival to win.

Jordan as much as he was friends with Ewing was perfectly happy to kick his butt every year.

Never thought of joining him, neither did Ewing.

I thought it was obvious from high school that his playing style was more akin to Magic Johnson. 6'9 point forward.

He doesn't really play much like MJ at all. Cleveland if anything wasn't a good fit for the type of offense he should playing anyway (more running offense).

There's nothing wrong with "only" being like Magic.

[Sarcastic]

So your issue is basically that Wade is too good.

LeBron should've chosen a supporting cast that was only a "7.5" instead of one that was a "9".

I mean really, who cares. That's his call. If I was leaving $30 million dollars on the table for the sole reasoning of wanting to win, then you bet your ass I'd pick the team I'd have the best shot of winning with.

No. It's Wade's team. How many times do you need to hear this before you understand? If you are the top guy in the league, you are supposed to recruit guys to play with you. You don't leave your team to piggyback someone who has already won. It will always be: Lebron = [Wade-1]

[Yung D-Will]

Don't you kinda have to "earn" that? Basketball teams aren't like McDonalds franchises where Ronald McDonald is the big fish no matter what.

If one player is better than the other players on that team .... then it becomes his team.

If LeBron over time shows himself to be a superior basketball talent to Wade ... it will become his team.

But really ... who even cares? Who's team is the Boston Celtics? Do they look like they even care? Looks to me like they're too busy competing for NBA titles. One person says KG runs it because they did nothing without him. Someone else says Allen. Someone else says Pierce. And now people are saying it's Rondo's team, lol.

Wade owns that city no one's gonna come in and take it from him.

Kg was better then Pierce when he came to the Celtics. And you know what he said? When he was offered to be the captain? "This is Pierces team , he's been here the longest and done the most for this franchise"

[Soundwave]

No. It's Wade's team. How many times do you need to hear this before you understand? If you are the top guy in the league, you are supposed to recruit guys to play with you. You don't leave your team to piggyback someone who has already won. It will always be: Lebron = [Wade-1]

So what happens if LeBron just happens to (accidentally of course) win Finals MVP?

Or outplays Wade in the playoffs?

Or has a higher PPG?

Or because he's younger eventually becomes the go to option as Wade turns 30+?

None of that is written in stone.

Besides who really gives a f-ck. You guys are really arguing over superficial crap. Who's team is the Celtics? Do they look they even care? No they're too busy competing for titles. The point of basketball is to win games and championships last time I checked.

Not legacies to be written 20 years into the future, not endorsement deals, not "who da man, who da man" Kobe/Shaq pissing contests, not saving economically depressed areas of the country, not some arbitrary age you have to be before you can go to a better team, etc. etc. etc.

[PurpleChuck]

So Lebron goes to Wade's house and wanna be the man there? GTFO...

[knickscity]

So Lebron goes to Wade's house and wanna be the man there? GTFO...
That is Wade's team period.

Wade: Surround me with talent.
Riley:Done....months later "I'm happy Bosh and LeBron decide to play with our great player Dwayne Wade.

Even Bosh knows that LeBron's game will diminish to a Magic type player. Not bad at all though.

[Psileas]

This is the correct answer.
10 straight championships with Wade will not make him better than Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell, Olajuwon, Duncan, Kareem, even Isiah Thomas.

I suppose that if this happens to LeBron, the same or worse happens to Wade. So, let's see, a guy supposedly worse even than Isiah Thomas plays with a guy slightly worse than him and therefore, worse to a bigger extent than Thomas (the rest of the team doesn't really seem to matter) and yet wins 10 straight championships. Makes sense to you?

Although I do agree that LeBron's case now is pretty unique in history, he's far from the only all-time great who played with stacked teams. Among the top 10-12 players ever, the one who played in less stacked teams than anybody else was Hakeem, and Hakeem, for all his individual brilliance, has no case for being GOAT. The ones who do have all played in all-time great teams. When all is said and done, if LeBron wins plenty of championships, the "he played with Wade and Bosh" thing won't matter to most people anymore. He'll easily go down as a GOAT candidate and this "super teammates" argument will be used only in the discussion of whether or not he's #1. Hakeem? Duncan? Isiah? Sorry, I think it's a matter of time only.

[game3524]

When you put your tail between your legs and crawl to another superstar to join his team, you renounce you A rights, and become a B.

This.

He is now A-Rod to Wade's Jeter.

[SoCalMike]

Now that LeBron has a good 2nd and 3rd options, What does LeBron have to accomplish to reach MJ level of greatness?

well given that Wade is the first option, I am not sure.



:pimp:

[entropy35]

wait, so people think even if lebron james averages close to a trip-dub every year they win a championship plus he gets league MVP he can't pass Jordan? smfh

[Bird]

wait, so people think even if lebron james averages close to a trip-dub every year they win a championship plus he gets league MVP he can't pass Jordan? smfh

No, it's because people are not thinking that LeBron James is going to a) win MVP every season (Kobe still has one or two more in him, Wade will compete with him, Durant, etc.) and b) win the championship every season.

I believe the Miami Divas will win more than one title, but I am not sure if they will win 6 in 8 years.

[lacasner]

Triple double + multiple titles + finals mvp, which he will all get

[KB2clutch]

Triple double + multiple titles + finals mvp, which he will all get

will not get finals mvp, thats for sure, this will bother lebron all season, the fact that if they win the championship wade will get the finals mvp

[adamcz]

Shaq leaving Orlando would be a great comparison if Shaq had left to go join Jordan with the Bulls, or to join Stockton/Malone with the Jazz.

I would have no problem if Lebron pulled a Shaq and joined Amare in NY.

The difference is that one is a mere change of scenery, and the other is running away from competition altogether.

[Soundwave]

Shaq leaving Orlando would be a great comparison if Shaq had left to go join Jordan with the Bulls, or to join Stockton/Malone with the Jazz.

I would have no problem if Lebron pulled a Shaq and joined Amare in NY.

The difference is that one is a mere change of scenery, and the other is running away from competition altogether.

So leaving for a superficial reason -- ie: wanting to boost your movie career or wanting more endorsements in New York = OK

Leaving to win championships = Not OK

The hypocrisy is thick.

I get that people want players to "earn" a championship, but I gotta ask, did Kobe "earn" Pau Gasol or Prime Shaq? No. It just happened by fortunate circumstance.

Did Magic "earn" Kareem or Worthy? No. It just happened.

[Laker4Lyfe]

Uh I'd say Elden Campbell + Divac (who wasn't traded at the time of the Shaq singing) + Nick Van Exel + Eddie Jones + Cedric Ceballos was a pretty well thought of young core at the time.

People forget about sh-t in two years time. If this can blow over:

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/03/12/1205348629_2265/499w.jpg

*Anything* can blow over. The awkward press event that LeBron gave is small potatoes compared to the above.

Short of killing someone (and even then ... lol) athletes can get away with anything, as long as they win in the end.

You do realize that by posting this picture you have COMPLETELY contradicted yourself right?

Obviously the above has NOT been forgotten, you just proved that. :lol:lol

[TROLL_HUNTER]

Its Wades team and he has already won a finals MVP & Championship.
Just because Lebron is overrated doesnt make it his team.
He will be 2nd fiddle to Wade.

man, you represent the most pathetic and hysterical side of Kobe's fanboys. Seriously , get a life. its urgent!

[greymatter]

No. It's Wade's team. How many times do you need to hear this before you understand? If you are the top guy in the league, you are supposed to recruit guys to play with you. You don't leave your team to piggyback someone who has already won. It will always be: Lebron = [Wade-1]

Salary caps, schmalary caps. NY fans are really butthurt that they're going to be the east coast GSW for years to come, aren't they?

Whether or not it's "Wade's team" is irrelevant if it turns out Lebron shoulders most of the load, in which case you wouldn't be able to call it piggybacking.

[IN-PAX-WE-TRUST]

first of all not signing with Dwayne Wade's team is a start.

[williams012]

He can't be compared to Jordan anymore.

Jordan didn't join someone else's team to try to win. Players came to him.

His game will more resemble Magic now.

He won't surpass Jordan now, no matter how many rings he get.

Jordan also played in Chicago ... not Cleveland. Big difference.

[Simple Jack]

Its Wades team and he has already won a finals MVP & Championship.
Just because Lebron is overrated doesnt make it his team.
He will be 2nd fiddle to Wade.

So if Wade and Bosh came to Cleveland it would be a different story?

If you say yes, execute yourself.

It's THE SAME THING. They are all sharing the court together regardless where they play. Any other thing you'd like to attach to it "meaning wise" is irrelevant.

[RaininThrees]

LeBron will forever be known as the third man in on a three man team. If they win a ring, he'll be known as the guy who followed Wade to Miami for the chance at a ring at 25, not the guy who led Miami to a championship.

[RaininThrees]

So if Wade and Bosh came to Cleveland it would be a different story?

If you say yes, execute yourself.

It's THE SAME THING. They are all sharing the court together regardless where they play. Any other thing you'd like to attach to it "meaning wise" is irrelevant.

But in the case where Lebron courts Wade and Bosh to Cleveland, he's still "the man" on "his" team. He's the leader. In this case he's nothing but a follower.

[Doranku]

Huh? LeBron IS the 2nd option. :oldlol:

[Yung D-Will]

Correction Now that Wade has a great second option since Miami will always be his team.

[King Lebron LBJ]

Anybody who thinks Lebron is going to be a sidekick is an idiot. It may be Wade's house but Lebron is the best player.

[Duncan21formvp]

Jordan also played in Chicago ... not Cleveland. Big difference.

Obviously you don't know **** about the Bulls.

The Bulls were not a major market. WTF are you talking about. The Bulls were a losing organization before MJ got there. How the hell are you a major market with only 6000 people at a game?



JORDAN: Financially? People are going to love this. It was a seven-year deal. I averaged about $850,000 a year. The first year's compensation was $650,000. There was no signing bonus. We tried to get an attendance clause. They were averaging 6,000 people a game



http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Profiles/People_Profile/0,2540,213,00.html

[AK47DR91]

Anybody who thinks Lebron is going to be a sidekick is an idiot. It may be Wade's house but Lebron is the best player.
Statistically, sure. But best player when heart, will and determination is in consideration then he already lost that.

You need more than just stats to be the best player in the game.

[King Lebron LBJ]

Statistically, sure. But best player when heart, will and determination is in consideration then he already lost that.

You need more than just stats to be the best player in the game.

Yes you do and Lebron has all that, There is no doubt Wade knows he will have to take a back seat to Lebron. Lebron is better than Wade at every area. Not by alot but still better.

[AK47DR91]

Yes you do and Lebron has all that, There is no doubt Wade knows he will have to take a back seat to Lebron. Lebron is better than Wade at every area. Not by alot but still better.

He sure didn't show any heart or will to win the last two playoffs. 2009, totally outplayed by the Magic. 2010, totally outplayed by the older Boston squad.

Yes, blame his shitty teammates all you want but if you can win 60 games with them then you can find a way to win in a hard fought 7-game series. If you can't win then at least put up a fight.

5 games vs Orlando in 09. One lucky buzzer-beater saved them from a sweep.
6 game vs Boston in 2010. Played one great game(Game 3) but average and poor the rest of the series. Game 1 they were lucky to win if Mo didn't have such a great 3rd quarter.

I know the regular season and playoffs are totally different but you can't just give him a pass and blame his teammates for the playoff loses. If he and his teammates were good enough to help get 60+ wins, then he and his mates could have figured a way to not get embarrassed like they did the last two post-season.

[niko]

Leave the heat, find a new team, and with that team win 6 titles.

People need to stop with the WHAT IF? he went to wade's team. there is no WHAT IF IT WAS DIFFERENT. It's not. He WENT to Wade's team.

[JtotheIzzo]

He can't be compared to Jordan anymore.

Jordan didn't join someone else's team to try to win. Players came to him.

His game will more resemble Magic now.

He won't surpass Jordan now, no matter how many rings he get.

this

[Harison]

So if Wade and Bosh came to Cleveland it would be a different story?

If you say yes, execute yourself.

It's THE SAME THING. They are all sharing the court together regardless where they play. Any other thing you'd like to attach to it "meaning wise" is irrelevant.
Of course it depends on whose team you play. For example when Garnett came to Celtics he said from the start "its Pierce team", even though KG was the best player. Its very important for the team chemistry. I very much doubt Lebron will say that to Wade, more like they will have "friendly competition" who is "the man", which might escalate to problems later, a la Kobe/Shaq. Even though they are friends, but also they have enormous egos, it doesnt look too good in the long run IMO.

[Deltron3030]

After his shinanagens (sp) the other day, he'll be lucky if people view him as the next Kobe. I wouldn't even be surprised if he loses endorsements to dwade from all this. I mean, why endorse bron if say wade gets a finals mvp on this team? Wade is much more of a humble (i use this word lightly) and friendlier figure type just like MJ was, at least with the media.

[AK47DR91]

Of course it depends on whose team you play. For example when Garnett came to Celtics he said from the start "its Pierce team", even though KG was the best player. Its very important for the team chemistry. I very much doubt Lebron will say that to Wade, more like they will have "friendly competition" who is "the man", which might escalate to problems later, a la Kobe/Shaq. Even though they are friends, but also they have enormous egos, it doesnt look too good in the long run IMO.

KG-Pierce-Ray, at the "mature" stage of their careers, still had their issues with Rondo too this past season. Defensive minded players like Garnett don't mind taking the backseat. Offensive scoring threats on the other hand all want to be the man!

So yeah, it won't surprised me if Wade and James end up clashing.

I can see LeBron pulling a 2004 Finals performance like Kobe. No disrespect to the Pistons but Kobe was also forcing his way for the Finals MVP trophy.

[Sarcastic]

So if Wade and Bosh came to Cleveland it would be a different story?



If Jordan abandoned the Bulls to play with Magic's Lakers in 1988, would it be Jordan's team or Magic's team?

[TheOne]

Lebron will need to surpass Wade first before being compared to Jordan. No matter how many rings he wins, wade wins 1 more.

[OldSchoolBBall]

One thing that people need to keep in mind is that due to both their cap situation as well as location/market, NOBODY of any significance was going to go to Cleveland. It's not like LA where they can just sit pretty and the quality free agents will come running due to lifestyle/locale.

[Kingwillball]

Since when is the 2nd option better than the first? Clearly LeBron to everyone in basketball outside of a few Heat fans has been the better player, so that makes Wade the 2nd option, the Pippen to LeBron's Jordan.

I was told there is no 1 A or B, B= 2nd option.. end of story.


+1..Lebron best player in world = #1 option.

[Kingwillball]

will not get finals mvp, thats for sure, this will bother lebron all season, the fact that if they win the championship wade will get the finals mvp


Absolutely False..If lebron leads team he will get it.

[Kingwillball]

Leave the heat, find a new team, and with that team win 6 titles.

People need to stop with the WHAT IF? he went to wade's team. there is no WHAT IF IT WAS DIFFERENT. It's not. He WENT to Wade's team.


He went to Wade's Team who's team has not been a factor for Years..Lebron will be the Reason they are one of the best teams in the League..If it was Wade and Bosh they would still be a middle of the Road 4 or 5 seed playoff team..Lebron is the reason they have a chance for multiple championships.

[amfirst]

Uh ... no he left for completely dumb and petty reasons. And the Lakers were about equal to the Magic (in terms of supporting cast) at that point.

At least with LeBron, hate the guy or not, you can't say his decision was based on superficial reasons. He wants to win, and he gave up a lot of money and a ton of endorsements/prestige/spotlight from New York to finally be on a team that has other player's that are high end talent.

I just find it to be funny hypocrisy that he would be applauded for going to New York (more endorsements) or staying in Cleveland (for money, because looking at that roster they sure as hell don't have a future) ... but is hated on for going to Miami because it provides the best situation to win in.


Giving up money was a illusion, dude just sign a 6 year contract.... :lol

[niko]

He can't be Jordan. Everyone just has to stop. He gave up that right. Jordan would have called Wade and told Bosh, and every other FA to go there to Miami, because he was going to shit on them anyway. And he might have, or might not, but he would have died trying. THAT was Jordan. Jordan was a Lebron level talent with Kobe level evil hatred of anything that stopped him from winning. He had a drive that was like a force of nature. He looked at you, said i'm going to beat you, and then finally would beat you.

Lebron looked at the situation, said i can't win, let me stack the odds in my favor, and THEN i'll beat you with help.

Jordan vs. Lebron is ridiculous. and i HATE jordan. HATE. But you can't compare the two of them, Jordan was the ultimate winner and competitor, Lebron isn't even the most competitive person on his own team now.

[macpierce]

lebron forfeited his right to be the GOAT, lol @ ******gers protecting his tarnished "legacy" :oldlol:
I'm sure cleveland has renounced his existence :cry:

[DixieNourmous]

He can't be Jordan. Everyone just has to stop. He gave up that right. Jordan would have called Wade and told Bosh, and every other FA to go there to Miami, because he was going to shit on them anyway. And he might have, or might not, but he would have died trying. THAT was Jordan. Jordan was a Lebron level talent with Kobe level evil hatred of anything that stopped him from winning. He had a drive that was like a force of nature. He looked at you, said i'm going to beat you, and then finally would beat you.

Lebron looked at the situation, said i can't win, let me stack the odds in my favor, and THEN i'll beat you with help.

Jordan vs. Lebron is ridiculous. and i HATE jordan. HATE. But you can't compare the two of them, Jordan was the ultimate winner and competitor, Lebron isn't even the most competitive person on his own team now.


+1

[Simple Jack]

But in the case where Lebron courts Wade and Bosh to Cleveland, he's still "the man" on "his" team. He's the leader. In this case he's nothing but a follower.


On the court it's the same situation. It doesn't matter how they got there, their style of play will be the same regardless of what team they were on (coaching aside).

To suggest that this is different simply because the team has a different name or one player was there before is beyond lacking logic.

[KobeDaMamba]

LeQueen is just another quitter who cant lead his team to a win. Instead of going to a team like New York or Chicago, he ended up with the Heat because he knew he wasnt going to beat the tandem of Wade/Bosh. Yet, people have the nerve to bring up his competitive nature.

[oh the horror]

He can't be Jordan. Everyone just has to stop. He gave up that right. Jordan would have called Wade and told Bosh, and every other FA to go there to Miami, because he was going to shit on them anyway. And he might have, or might not, but he would have died trying. THAT was Jordan. Jordan was a Lebron level talent with Kobe level evil hatred of anything that stopped him from winning. He had a drive that was like a force of nature. He looked at you, said i'm going to beat you, and then finally would beat you.

Lebron looked at the situation, said i can't win, let me stack the odds in my favor, and THEN i'll beat you with help.

Jordan vs. Lebron is ridiculous. and i HATE jordan. HATE. But you can't compare the two of them, Jordan was the ultimate winner and competitor, Lebron isn't even the most competitive person on his own team now.




No point in explaining this to people that do not get it.


This new generation of fans consist of empty stats, and "winning"....without realizing the combination of fire, will to win, desire, passion, wars, blood sweat and tears, PLUS the winning is what MADE MJ the GOAT.


Lebron hasnt shown me anything of that sort, outside of the stats so far.


Dude is soft, and THATS fine, but lets stop it with this comparison to Jordan folks.




HE AINT MIKE, AND HE NEVER WILL BE.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Lebron is Lebron
Kobe is Kobe
MJ is MJ

one does not equal the other...ever

diff players, diff teams

[chopchop20]

Jordan did what LeBron could not do -- he brought a franchise that had never won their 1st Championship (6). LeBron was in position to do that but chose to go to Miami instead

[Simple Jack]

Jordan did what LeBron could not do -- he brought a franchise that had never won their 1st Championship (6). LeBron was in position to do that but chose to go to Miami instead

Jordan had the GOAT coach and an amazing front office that was able to snag Rodman in his later years, Pippen early on, and Kukoc among other key players that helped win their championships.

[SSSTRESSS]

"LeBron does have a good team which is why his team finished with 60+ wins in the regular season in consecutive years. The simple fact is that LeBron sucks when it matters most, in the playoffs, you know, when it matters most. His "amazing skill" doesn't translate into the post season because he is over rated. Kobe is far better than LeBron. The only advantage LeBron has over kobe is sheer physical ability. That is all and that will always be all."

[Kappy]

Lebron will NEVER reach Jordan's greatness .... EVER!! :no: Hell, he'll be lucky if he ends up on the top 15 list.

[Simple Jack]

"LeBron does have a good team which is why his team finished with 60+ wins in the regular season in consecutive years. The simple fact is that LeBron sucks when it matters most, in the playoffs, you know, when it matters most. His "amazing skill" doesn't translate into the post season because he is over rated. Kobe is far better than LeBron. The only advantage LeBron has over kobe is sheer physical ability. That is all and that will always be all."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chdWS...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYMLFzNAhEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mr0dllspd8


That's all "choking" when it mattered most.

The only difference is that when Kobe shoots 6/24 in a game 7, his team wins.

Jeff, can you ban these trolls?

[zORi]

If Jordan abandoned the Bulls to play with Magic's Lakers in 1988, would it be Jordan's team or Magic's team?

This.

Miami is Wade's world. He has a better chance of becoming "the next Michael Jordan" than LeBron does, now.

I'm still happy to have him down here, though.

[Simple Jack]

Lebron will NEVER reach Jordan's greatness .... EVER!! :no: Hell, he'll be luck if he ends up on the top 15 list.


Why is that? Let's not count Kobe's first 3 rings at all, let's not count Magic's or Kareem's or any of Bird's.

[Kappy]

I'll use a snippet from a sports article that I think says it all --------

"Michael Jordan was a great player and a killer on the court. Kobe Bryant is a great player and a killer on the court. Dwayne Wade is a great player and a killer on the court. LeBron James

[Doranku]

Why is that? Let's not count Kobe's first 3 rings at all, let's not count Magic's or Kareem's or any of Bird's.

Most people like you don't. :oldlol:

[SSSTRESSS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chdWS...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYMLFzNAhEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mr0dllspd8


That's all "choking" when it mattered most.

The only difference is that when Kobe shoots 6/24 in a game 7, his team wins.

Jeff, can you ban these trolls?

Simple Jack that still doesn't change a thing.. Are you listening to yourself.."his team wins." Kobe found a way to win. PERIOD. :violin:

[SinJackal]

LeBron's game never really seemed to be like MJ's to me.

It was always evident his physical ability (6 foot 9) and natural style of play was more comparable to Magic Johnson, not Michael Jordan.

So I think LeBron should just go back to playing that style. Point forward, run n' gun the offense. He'll still get his 20-28 ppg, but he can increase his assist totals and triple double totals big time now.


I dunno, he was already getting 8.5 assists per game in Cleveland. LeBron's average rebounding skill holds him back more than his assist totals have. He will never average a triple double due to being no more than a mere above average rebounder. I don't see his assists going up that much since he already hit his career high last year with 8 1/2 a game.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

what I don't understand is why post #2 did not end this thread.
you all its true.

[Simple Jack]

Simple Jack that still doesn't change a thing.. Are you listening to yourself.."his team wins." Kobe found a way to win. PERIOD. :violin:

No. Kobe's TEAM found a way to win, despite Kobe's terrible shooting. Doesn't it make sense, that the better the team you have, the more capable they are of winning?

Did Kobe find a way to win by airballing his shot against Phoenix? Or missing agains the Thunder? Were those subliminal passes to Gasol and Artest? :roll:

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Now that LeBron has a good 2nd and 3rd options, What does LeBron have to accomplish to reach MJ level of greatness?

no now he is the 2nd / 3rd option....llol

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chdWS...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYMLFzNAhEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mr0dllspd8


That's all "choking" when it mattered most.

The only difference is that when Kobe shoots 6/24 in a game 7, his team wins.

Jeff, can you ban these trolls?

jeff needs to ban u first...

[Simple Jack]

jeff needs to ban u first...


Says someone calling LeBron a 3rd option.

[crisoner]

LeBron threw any chance of that legacy out the window on Thursday night.
Heck I'm not sure if he will be seen in the top ten at this point.

He is playing on Wade's team and in Wade's town. He has the luxury of NOT taking the final shots in key moment of the game.

LeJoke

[Simple Jack]

LeBron threw any chance of that legacy out the window on Thursday night.
Heck I'm not sure if he will be seen in the top ten at this point.

He is playing on Wade's team and in Wade's town. He has the luxury of NOT taking the final shots in key moment of the game.

LeJoke


And the lack of logic continues.....

[Rose]

And the lack of logic continues.....

Because you typed again.

[entropy35]

If Lebron puts up the stats (close to averaging a triple double) and wins championships he can still be GOAT.

[ginobli2311]

And the lack of logic continues.....

yep.

do people realize that karl malone is in almost every single top 12 of all time?

so you people are saying lebron won't go down as better than malone if he wins multiple championships? LOL.....Lebron could play 7 more years and win nothing and would still go down as better than karl malone.

add 4 titles, 2mvps, 2 finals mvps......(which is a likely possibility over the next decade) and you have one of the 5 best players of all time. sorry if you don't like it. sorry if you don't like how or why he left. but lebron is now on a stacked team. just like all the other top ten players of all time were when they won besides duncan and hakeem.

here is what i find hilarious. tim duncan has 4 titles. 4 TITLES!!!!!!. His talent level and help is significantly worse for those 4 titles than bird's titles, kobe's titles, shaq's titles, jordan's titles, magic's titles, russell's titles, kareem's titles.

why is duncan not higher than bird or magic on every list????????

he was the man and we created a dynasty and has won "on his own" more than any top player in history. why isn't he higher on all time lists?

makes no sense based on the opinions of all of you on this thread.

so everyone either needs to move duncan way up and magic,shaq,kareem,kobe,russell, and bird way down on their lists. can't have it both ways.

[Simple Jack]

yep.

do people realize that karl malone is in almost every single top 12 of all time?

so you people are saying lebron won't go down as better than malone if he wins multiple championships? LOL.....Lebron could play 7 more years and win nothing and would still go down as better than karl malone.

add 4 titles, 2mvps, 2 finals mvps......(which is a likely possibility over the next decade) and you have one of the 5 best players of all time. sorry if you don't like it. sorry if you don't like how or why he left. but lebron is now on a stacked team. just like all the other top ten players of all time were when they won besides duncan and hakeem.

here is what i find hilarious. tim duncan has 4 titles. 4 TITLES!!!!!!. His talent level and help is significantly worse for those 4 titles than bird's titles, kobe's titles, shaq's titles, jordan's titles, magic's titles, russell's titles, kareem's titles.

why is duncan not higher than bird or magic on every list????????

he was the man and we created a dynasty and has won "on his own" more than any top player in history. why isn't he higher on all time lists?

makes no sense based on the opinions of all of you on this thread.

so everyone either needs to move duncan way up and magic,shaq,kareem,kobe,russell, and bird way down on their lists. can't have it both ways.
:applause: :applause:

[Draz]

I agree Duncan needs to be listed more.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Lebron has a great opportunity to be ranked right up there with Pippen, which is a rare accomplishment. Pippen is one of the greatest SFs of all time.
But he won't catch Bird until he wins titles as unquestionably The Man.

[ginobli2311]

Lebron has a great opportunity to be ranked right up there with Pippen, which is a rare accomplishment. Pippen is one of the greatest SFs of all time.
But he won't catch Bird until he wins titles as unquestionably The Man.

again. completely disagree. i have never seen pippen ahead of karl malone on any list. malone won nothing.......

lebron is far better player than pippen. and lebron can still be the "man" on this team through his play. why is everyone so hell bent on labeling everyone and everything.

what if lebron scores 28 a game and wade scores 22? is wade still the man?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

so everyone either needs to move duncan way up and magic,shaq,kareem,kobe,russell, and bird way down on their lists. can't have it both ways.

Duncan is widely regarded as the greatest PF of all time.
That's serious props.
As for putting him in the top 5... you can take into account such things as actual game/skills, competition, etc.
Put him wherever you like.

imo, he is in anyone's top-10 and that is righteous.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

again. completely disagree. i have never seen pippen ahead of karl malone on any list. malone won nothing.......


where did I compare Pippen to Malone?
:rant

[chopchop20]

If Lebron puts up the stats (close to averaging a triple double) and wins championships he can still be GOAT.

http://playunderreview.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/michael-jordan-cigar.jpg

[ginobli2311]

where did I compare Pippen to Malone?
:rant

because you compared lebron to pippen. and lebron is a far better player than pippen.

now lebron has become historically under-rated in one day. if lebron plays 7 more years and wins nothing he will go down in the top 12 all time if he keeps his numbers relatively the same.

lebron is flat out better than karl malone and pippen. lebron is already higher than pippen on most lists that i have seen.

i just don't get your agenda at all.

[chopchop20]

Let's just face it, LeBron is the Big HYPOTHETICAL...

If had better teammates, he would have won X

If he had a better coach, he could have did Y

If he wins this amount of rings and that amount of Finals MVP's, he'll be recognized as Z

This crap is a mythical as his KING status

Because so far, he hasn't done JACK

I wouldn't be surprised if Durant has a more successful career... OKC is quietly adding some nice pieces

[ginobli2311]

Duncan is widely regarded as the greatest PF of all time.
That's serious props.
As for putting him in the top 5... you can take into account such things as actual game/skills, competition, etc.
Put him wherever you like.

imo, he is in anyone's top-10 and that is righteous.

so why can't we use logic and context with lebron and everyone else? duncan is behind magic and bird on most lists because people agree that bird/magic had better overall games and were just flat out better players.

that is my point. if you give lebron the titles....what is holding him back? in your mind its because he would have won on stacked teams. but every player in the top 10 other than duncan and hakeem won with stacked teams. magic's teams were far better. kobe/shaq teams are all equal or better. russell's teams were more stacked. bird's teams were just as loaded.

it didn't hurt magic to win with kareem/scott/worthy/rambis/cooper and riley. why should it hurt lebron to win with wade/bosh spoestra? its such a double standard. and to make things worse.....chirs bosh isn't a superstar. he's not even close to a mchale or parrish or even a rodman. bosh is a very good player....maybe one of the 15 best in the league. probably top 20. they don't even have a full team or a great coach and people are saying its unfair. its beyond absurd.

the current lakers have more talent and a better coach. how is that not unfair? it does not make sense.

[ginobli2311]

Let's just face it, LeBron is the Big HYPOTHETICAL...

If had better teammates, he would have won X

If he had a better coach, he could have did Y

If he wins this amount of rings and that amount of Finals MVP's, he'll be recognized as Z

This crap is a mythical as his KING status

Because so far, he hasn't done JACK

I wouldn't be surprised if Durant has a more successful career... OKC is quietly adding some nice pieces

100% agree with everything.

but now this is not a hypothetical. there are no excuses. if lebron does not play well and win at least 3 titles in the next 7 years its a failure and he's clearly does not deserve to go down in the top 8 of all time. this is all we wanted as basketball fans. i want to see what wade/lebron can do with a stacked team like kobe,magic,bird,mj,shaq,kareem,russell and so on did.

great post. but its not longer a hypothetical. its reality.

[chopchop20]

so why can't we use logic and context with lebron and everyone else? duncan is behind magic and bird on most lists because people agree that bird/magic had better overall games and were just flat out better players.

that is my point. if you give lebron the titles....what is holding him back? in your mind its because he would have won on stacked teams. but every player in the top 10 other than duncan and hakeem won with stacked teams. magic's teams were far better. kobe/shaq teams are all equal or better. russell's teams were more stacked. bird's teams were just as loaded.

it didn't hurt magic to win with kareem/scott/worthy/rambis/cooper and riley. why should it hurt lebron to win with wade/bosh spoestra? its such a double standard. and to make things worse.....chirs bosh isn't a superstar. he's not even close to a mchale or parrish or even a rodman. bosh is a very good player....maybe one of the 15 best in the league. probably top 20. they don't even have a full team or a great coach and people are saying its unfair. its beyond absurd.

the current lakers have more talent and a better coach. how is that not unfair? it does not make sense.

You've been the one creating the double standard.... "Kobe plays with a stacked team" :rolleyes:

[chopchop20]

100% agree with everything.

but now this is not a hypothetical. there are no excuses. if lebron does not play well and win at least 3 titles in the next 7 years its a failure and he's clearly does not deserve to go down in the top 8 of all time. this is all we wanted as basketball fans. i want to see what wade/lebron can do with a stacked team like kobe,magic,bird,mj,shaq,kareem,russell and so on did.

great post. but its not longer a hypothetical. its reality.

We've been waiting to witness it for like 7 years now... Not saying he can't finally achieve "something that means something", but it's fantasy until he does.

And America's over the love affair, he's going to start feeling a lot more heat until he lives up to the hype -- as you can see it has already started

[kobesabi]

You've been the one creating the double standard.... "Kobe plays with a stacked team" :rolleyes:
It's Kobe's team vs Wade's team (not LeDiva team).

Only King talk to King. King don't deal with runnaway soldier (ironically he came from a cavalier)

[ginobli2311]

You've been the one creating the double standard.... "Kobe plays with a stacked team" :rolleyes:

lol

not at all. when comparing lebron to kobe in the past it was absurd to use the common kobe argument of 5>0. when lebron has only played 7 years and had previously never played with a top 25 player in the league. you know what i have said dude. you know your last post is a cop out and you are just changing the entire debate. you're better than that.

what have i always said?

its the level of play that matters. kobe's stacked team only comes up if he plays poorly and wins. something that kobe has done frequently in the nba finals in my opinion.

if lebron goes 6-24 in a game 7 next year in the nba finals and still wins i will ****ing kill him for it. i will destroy him.

thats not a double standard at all. the double standard is saying the lebron can't go down as better than bird or kobe or magic or kareem because he now plays on a loaded team. why? becaue all those players won with ****ing loaded teams that were as good or better than this heat team.

do you understand?

[ginobli2311]

We've been waiting to witness it for like 7 years now... Not saying he can't finally achieve "something that means something", but it's fantasy until he does.

And America's over the love affair, he's going to start feeling a lot more heat until he lives up to the hype -- as you can see it has already started

again. no other player in history was won with the level of talent that lebron had. we have been over this. but all that doesn't matter now. people that said he would never win will either be right or wrong now. he has the team...there are no more excuses. and that is the beauty of this. no more wondering what lebron and wade can do with a a great team for 6 to 10 years. we are going to see it.

i personally think they win 4 titles in the next 7 years. i may be wrong. we'll see.

[Lo1a]

He can't be Jordan. Everyone just has to stop. He gave up that right. Jordan would have called Wade and told Bosh, and every other FA to go there to Miami, because he was going to shit on them anyway. And he might have, or might not, but he would have died trying. THAT was Jordan. Jordan was a Lebron level talent with Kobe level evil hatred of anything that stopped him from winning. He had a drive that was like a force of nature. He looked at you, said i'm going to beat you, and then finally would beat you.

Lebron looked at the situation, said i can't win, let me stack the odds in my favor, and THEN i'll beat you with help.

Jordan vs. Lebron is ridiculous. and i HATE jordan. HATE. But you can't compare the two of them, Jordan was the ultimate winner and competitor, Lebron isn't even the most competitive person on his own team now.

This.

/thread.

[-23-]

again. no other player in history was won with the level of talent that lebron had. we have been over this. but all that doesn't matter now. people that said he would never win will either be right or wrong now. he has the team...there are no more excuses. and that is the beauty of this. no more wondering what lebron and wade can do with a a great team for 6 to 10 years. we are going to see it.

i personally think they win 4 titles in the next 7 years. i may be wrong. we'll see.


Hakeem:no:

[KOBEDAGAWD]

Thread should be retitled as "Lebron James as the next Kobe Bryant"

[ginobli2311]

Hakeem:no:

offensive talent? yes.

defensive talent? nope.

coaching? nope.

you have to have at least two of the following to win:

1. great defense/rebounding
2. 2 or more great players
3. great coaching

the rockets had great defense and rebounding and great coaching. the cavs did not have one of the above. its that simple.

hakeem won with the least amount of overall talent of all time for a star in 94. but he still had a better supporting cast in terms of winning than lebron did. defense matters........its not just a cliche.

[monkeypox]

I tend to agree. Not the Jordan part, because really Wade and Bosh would have to both get injured or disappear for LeBron to get full credit. It's not like Pippin where people didn't know much of him beyond Jordan. Wade is already a champion and Bosh totally out-played Howard in the olympics. People are already suggesting that Pau Gasol is better than any player that Jordan ever played with, so good luck trying to convince them that Wade and Bosh are worse than that.

What I do agree with is that this will all blow over. If he plays well people will forget. The only issue is whether or not he'll have another dunk-gate, or no-handshake, or 1 hour special to promote him switching shoe companies or something. With Kobe, after the Colorado thing he's crawled his way back with his play and keeping relatively out of trouble. That's what LeBron will have to do. Play well and not make anymore mistakes, because as soon as he makes another one, all the old stuff will be brought back like it was yesterday.

[ginobli2311]

I tend to agree. Not the Jordan part, because really Wade and Bosh would have to both get injured or disappear for LeBron to get full credit. It's not like Pippin where people didn't know much of him beyond Jordan. Wade is already a champion and Bosh totally out-played Howard in the olympics. People are already suggesting that Pau Gasol is better than any player that Jordan ever played with, so good luck trying to convince them that Wade and Bosh are worse than that.

What I do agree with is that this will all blow over. If he plays well people will forget. The only issue is whether or not he'll have another dunk-gate, or no-handshake, or 1 hour special to promote him switching shoe companies or something. With Kobe, after the Colorado thing he's crawled his way back with his play and keeping relatively out of trouble. That's what LeBron will have to do. Play well and not make anymore mistakes, because as soon as he makes another one, all the old stuff will be brought back like it was yesterday.


yep. kobe survived the follwoing:

1. running phil/shaq out of town
2. worst performance by a star player in the nba finals ever in 04
3. accused of rape
4. bailing on his teammates in the 2nd half of a game 7
5. getting outplayed by paul pierce in the 08 finals

nobody brings any of that up anymore. just three years ago people were saying kobe would never win a title as "the man". think of how stupid those poeple now feel.

it lebron plays well and wins that is all that matters. the "stacked team" only comes up if you lose. its why all the all time greats had stacked teams but nobody brings it up. why? because they played great and won. if lebron does the same none of this matters from a basketball standpoint.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

so why can't we use logic and context with lebron and everyone else?

OK, so here's your logic and context...
unlike Bird, Malone, Duncan, etc etc
Lebron has not won anything and he bailed on his team in his prime to become 1b. Sure, Malone never won anything, but he didn't chicken-out in his prime... he kept fighting.

[ginobli2311]

OK, so here's your logic and context...
unlike Bird, Malone, Duncan, etc etc
Lebron has not won anything and he bailed on his team in his prime to become 1b. Sure, Malone never won anything, but he didn't chicken-out in his prime... he kept fighting.

first. its your opinion that lebron is 1b. what if lebron is the best player on that team? you act like this isn't a legit conversation to have.

second. i don't care how he got on a good team. what does that matter?

look at KG. he stayed....and guess what....he ****ing wasted 12 years on a team that never gave him a chance to win. do yo give KG a pass for not winning multiple titles? hell no you don't.

epic fail by the media and posters on here. i've watched this board hammer kg time and time again for his time in minny. well guess what. lebron didn't make the same mistake. its not kg or lebron's fault that they didn't get drafted and get to play with shaq or kareem right off the bat.

LOL. give me a ****ing break. by the way. both shaq and kareem > wade.

so you people always ***** and moan saying the great players always find a way to win. this was lebron's chance to find a way. he can't make bosh come to cleveland dude. he can't force someone to live in that awful city and play on an aging team in a bad market.

such a ****ing double standard.

[Simple Jack]

first. its your opinion that lebron is 1b. what if lebron is the best player on that team? you act like this isn't a legit conversation to have.

second. i don't care how he got on a good team. what does that matter?

look at KG. he stayed....and guess what....he ****ing wasted 12 years on a team that never gave him a chance to win. do yo give KG a pass for not winning multiple titles? hell no you don't.

epic fail by the media and posters on here. i've watched this board hammer kg time and time again for his time in minny. well guess what. lebron didn't make the same mistake. its not kg or lebron's fault that they didn't get drafted and get to play with shaq or kareem right off the bat.

LOL. give me a ****ing break. by the way. both shaq and kareem > wade.

so you people always ***** and moan saying the great players always find a way to win. this was lebron's chance to find a way. he can't make bosh come to cleveland dude. he can't force someone to live in that awful city and play on an aging team in a bad market.

such a ****ing double standard.



Why can't people understand that the way you judge a player is by WHAT HE DOES ON THE COURT.

It doesn't matter if these three are playing in Cleveland, New York, Chicago, ****ing Europe; it doesn't matter. What matters is that they are on the court together and would play the same way regardless where they played.

In terms of comparing them to other all-time greats; it's been done before. Other players have had this talent. The common criticism is that LeBron left his team to get on a team like this, rather than being drafted to one; but THIS DOESN'T MATTER. To attack that point is to attack his character or a choice he made; both of which have little to do with how good of a basketball player he is. The way Kareem got to play with Magic may be different than the way LeBron got to play with Wade, but on the court, it's the same thing. THe bottom line is they ARE playing together, just like greats of the past have played on teams with immense talent, and it never took away from their legacy. Hate LeBron for doing it, but don't create a double standard for his legacy because of it.

[AK47DR91]

first. its your opinion that lebron is 1b. what if lebron is the best player on that team? you act like this isn't a legit conversation to have.

second. i don't care how he got on a good team. what does that matter?

look at KG. he stayed....and guess what....he ****ing wasted 12 years on a team that never gave him a chance to win. do yo give KG a pass for not winning multiple titles? hell no you don't.

epic fail by the media and posters on here. i've watched this board hammer kg time and time again for his time in minny. well guess what. lebron didn't make the same mistake. its not kg or lebron's fault that they didn't get drafted and get to play with shaq or kareem right off the bat.

LOL. give me a ****ing break. by the way. both shaq and kareem > wade.

so you people always ***** and moan saying the great players always find a way to win. this was lebron's chance to find a way. he can't make bosh come to cleveland dude. he can't force someone to live in that awful city and play on an aging team in a bad market.

such a ****ing double standard.

Garnett gave it his all. Ewing, Barkley, Malone gave it their all.

Unfortunately, Jordan, Shaq, and Duncan were all superior than them.

And yes, KG, Barkley and Malone all became desperate at the twilight of their careers when they joined forces with other current top players in the league.

LeBron is already giving up at the age of 25! And again, it's not even about Cleveland. He could have went to NY to join Amare, he could have went to Chicago or Nets...ect..but instead he join forces with the 2nd/3rd player in the league and a top 10 PF.

[AK47DR91]

Jordan had the GOAT coach and an amazing front office that was able to snag Rodman in his later years, Pippen early on, and Kukoc among other key players that helped win their championships.

In retrospective, yes, Phil looks like the GOAT coach ever. Pippen looks like the greatest #2 option ever. As much as I love Rodman I'll exclude him since MJ was already considered the GOAT before he joined.

But the fact still remains...Jordan stayed w/ the Bulls, a shitty franchise before he came in, and struck luck with Pippen's draft and Phil as a coach. Were they predicted to be the greatest set of players and coach ever? No...MJ, Pip and Phil BUILD their legacy!

LeBron simply QUIT trying at 25! Pathetic.