Wade: "Kobe had bad game in Finals. James teammates didn't help. He's not a quitter"

[PleezeBelieve]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5384202

MIAMI -- They've been teammates for only a week, and Dwyane Wade is already standing up for LeBron James.

Wade defended the NBA's two-time reigning MVP on Thursday, telling The Associated Press that James "didn't quit" on Cleveland during the playoffs. That was the accusation made by Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert last week, not long after James went on television to reveal he was leaving Cleveland for Miami.

"He's not a quitter," Wade said. "He didn't quit."

In an interview with The AP on July 8, Gilbert not only levied the quitting charge, but said James got "a free pass" for too long. The NBA fined Gilbert $100,000 earlier this week for some of his comments, with commissioner David Stern saying they were too extreme for the league's liking.

Wade said he watched every game in Cleveland's second-round series against Boston, the team that eliminated the Heat in the opening round of the postseason. The Celtics used a similar defensive scheme against James as they did against Wade to open the playoffs, throwing a slew of challenges in the way of both.

"LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, guys like that understand what Boston's defense was about," Wade said. "Their defense was built on not letting one player beat them. You either settle for the outside shot or you pass to your teammates. LeBron had one bad game in the playoffs. Other than that, he did what he could do with the defense all watching him."

The Cavs lost to the Celtics in six games, but Wade pointed out that in the series finale, James finished with 27 points, 19 rebounds and 10 assists.

Nonetheless, Gilbert told The AP, "watch the tape. The Boston series was unlike anything in the history of sports for a superstar."

The Cavaliers were beaten by 32 points in Game 5, a stunning loss at home. During the game, James appeared distracted and disinterested, often glaring at Cleveland's coaches as the Cavs tried to foul to get back into the game in the second half. James also made some puzzling postgame comments, saying he had "spoiled" people with his play over seven seasons.

In that Game 5 loss to Boston, James scored 15 points on 3 of 14 shooting.

In Game 6 against Boston, even as now-former Cavs coach Mike Brown tried to get his players to foul as time was winding down, James appeared to wave him off, almost resigned that the season was ending and there was nothing Cleveland could do at that point. Gilbert also said he believes James quit on the Cavs in Game 6 of their series in 2009 against Orlando.

"I don't see where you can get where he quit," Wade said. "He just had one bad game. It happens. Kobe had a bad game in the finals. They won. It didn't matter. LeBron's teammates didn't help him out that game and it made the way he played even worse. But he's not a quitter. He didn't quit."

As James pointed out in his welcome-to-Miami event on July 9, Bryant made only 6 of his 24 shots in Game 7 of the finals against Boston, which his Los Angeles Lakers won anyway for their second straight NBA title.

"He knew he had help and guys came through for him," James said last week of Bryant's Game 7 showing in the finals.

James was the subject of countless jokes during Wednesday's ESPY awards, and Wade saw the humor in some of them. Others, however, had him bristling.

"You get defensive with things like that," Wade said. "He's a good friend. You understand people say it because it's a hot topic. They wanted people to react in a positive way or a negative way, just because it's a hot topic to talk about. It's a punch line. They just wanted to have something to do with it. They wanted to feel involved in some way.
Is this a remake of the Love connection??

Seriously??

[Sicknote]

LeBron's teammates didn't help him out?

It sounds like he's defending his girlfriend. :oldlol:

[Bruinlove]

It's clear he quit.

Also didn't Mo williams get 20 first half points in game 5 or 6 vs Boston-but Lebron had no help from his teammates? OK

[Yung D-Will]

I respect Wade more then anyone in the leauge but hanging out with Lebron is making the excuses rub off on him

[PleezeBelieve]

I NEVER wouyld have thought all this was possible a year ago.

Amazing. This is unbelieveable. These cats gey??

Fo real, real. :confusedshrug:

[Kensta]

Is Bron hiding in a cave somewhere. Why is Wade doing all the talking?

[john_d]

maybe wade got sick and tired of hearing lebron cry in his sleep.

PUUULIEASEEEE LOVVEEEE ME AGGGGAAIN

[bl2k8]

smh@ these dudes mentioning other players

[Fatal9]

lol @ comparing LeBron's demeanor for half of that series to Kobe's. LeBron's team kept him in the game at half time of both games, but why would they play hard if their leader is out there not even trying? Kobe's teammates shot like sh*t, but they (and him) played excellent defense and made it a close game for three quarters (though they did trail by 8-10 pts for most of the game). Kobe took the opportunity, along with Pau, and ran away with the game in the fourth quarter. Did what he had to at the end of the day to get the W, no matter how poorly he shot from the field.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Is Bron hiding in a cave somewhere. Why is Wade doing all the talking?

Bron died a few days ago fyi, just after "the decision" event.

[highwhey]

these guys continue to suck each other's d!cks. wait till they begin to have issues like kobe and shaq. sh!t will go down.

[PleezeBelieve]

Mo saved James' ass Game 1. Gasol saved Kobe's ass Game 7.

What am I missing here? :confusedshrug:

[alwaysunny]

Lebron is a bad influence to these kids in the NBA. Dwyane and Chris should've known better not to hang out with this guy!

[Mr. Jabbar]

Mo saved James' ass Game 1. Gasol saved Kobe's ass Game 7.

What am I missing here? :confusedshrug:



:lol :lol :lol

Gasol was shooting like 24% for 3 quarters, Ron was the one standing up, not gasol.

[Lakers13]

Wade being a good teammate, but he should stop enabling LeBron, let that dude stick up for himself. He's a big boy, don't need older brother holdin his hand.

[Fatal9]

Mo saved James' ass Game 1. Gasol saved Kobe's ass Game 7.
Gasol was playing almost just as bad as Kobe through three quarters :confusedshrug:. Him and Kobe both stepped up in the fourth quarter though (Kobe responsible for more than half of team's pts in the quarter).

[Batz]

Anyone could tell James gave up in Game 5 and in game 6. Just look at his activity level late in the games and his attitude+body language. It was clear cut that he quit. Kobe had a bad game, so did everyone else but Artest. But he kept on fighting somehow.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

For the Laker series against Boston... it was a defensive series, entirely. It was like no one, on either team, could hit a shot. The series came down to rebounds, and that's where the Lakers prevailed, including Kobe who was 2nd on the team in rebounds (impressive from a SG position).

DWade is correct, Boston schemed against Kobe/Lebron/Wade. Great Boston defense, imo. Yes, Laker teammates helped out more than Cav teammates. That is why, in part, the Lakers are the Champions.

[blaze_itt]

:lol :lol :lol

Gasol was shooting like 24% for 3 quarters, Ron was the one standing up, not gasol.
I know right. Everyone says Gasol saved the lakers when his fg% was almost identically as bad as kobe's for 3 qtrs.. Everyone stepped it up in the 4th but Artest and Fish hit the real important 3's. No hate on Gasol, but the whole Lakers team is responsible for the Championship just like last year

[Fatal9]

Anyone could tell James gave up in Game 5 and in game 6. Just look at his activity level late in the games and his attitude+body language. It was clear cut that he quit. Kobe had a bad game, so did everyone else but Artest. But he kept on fighting somehow.
Game 2, second half of game 4, all of game 5 were the games where he clearly quit. I think he tried in game 6 to save face but he ended up sucking anyways.

[Lakers13]

Wade and LeBron must be Kobe envious, all they do is bring this guy up when they down and n

[MasterDurant24]

Okay Wade needs to shut up now and get ready for the season.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Is Bron hiding in a cave somewhere. Why is Wade doing all the talking?

Leaders of the teams always comes to defense of his teammates...

so whats wrong if the MAIN guy on Heat team is coming out and defending one his sidekicks?

[ImmortalD24]

I know this has been beaten to death but.. That elbow thing LeBron did in the last few seconds of the Cavaliers - Bulls series was bizarre.. maybe even scripted just so he could blow the series against Boston and head to Miami (remember bosh recently said that they've talked about them coming together well before the summer)

[john_d]

I know this has been beaten to death but.. That elbow thing LeBron did in the last few seconds of the Cavaliers - Bulls series was bizarre.. maybe even scripted just so he could blow the series against Boston and head to Miami (remember bosh recently said that they've talked about them coming together well before the summer)
your avatar is LOL. you have a full picture of that?

back on topic.
i believe this is just a statement from wade to show who is the Alpha-male on his team.

[omarnyc]

i know kobe gotta be tired of these crybabies bringing his name up to justify whatever it is they are trying to do. if they happy about the decision why go around making excuses and explaining? i never heard wade talk this much or seen so much of bosh during the last 7 seasons.

[Batz]

Game 2, second half of game 4, all of game 5 were the games where he clearly quit. I think he tried in game 6 to save face but he ended up sucking anyways.
Game 2? You mean where the refs called all those bogus calls to get Bryant into foul trouble? He didn't even stop trying. He kept on being aggressive even when the refs were blatantly trying to stop him.

Game 4? REALLY? You mean the only man who actually showed up and played pretty damn ****ing good? :hammerhead:

Game 5? You mean after his 3rd quarter explosion and then was forced to chuck up shitload of shots near the end because his teammates couldn't get it done?

Game 6? Okay now you're just trolling me.


Lebron in game 5 is just obvious. No explanation needed. Game 6 though does, he took like what? 3-5 shots late in the 4th? The team didn't foul, remember that? That showed they gave up. Lebron didn't foul either, he gave up too. They all gave up, just admit that.

[Kurosawa0]

I know it's the "in" thing to rip LeBron right now, but Wade is absolutely right. Anyone that watched the playoffs could see that Kobe had more around him than LeBron did. Kobe's game seven was every bit as bad as LeBron's game five. The difference was that the Lakers had more weapons and didn't depend solely on one guy to do everything for them.

Cleveland's failure was due mostly to poor coaching, both in game and in building a team's chemistry.

Or, if you believe rumors, Delonte West...

[BFRESH44]

[QUOTE=Lakers13]Wade and LeBron must be Kobe envious, all they do is bring this guy up when they down and n

[Cangri]

Game 2? You mean where the refs called all those bogus calls to get Bryant into foul trouble? He didn't even stop trying. He kept on being aggressive even when the refs were blatantly trying to stop him.

Game 4? REALLY? You mean the only man who actually showed up and played pretty damn ****ing good? :hammerhead:

Game 5? You mean after his 3rd quarter explosion and then was forced to chuck up shitload of shots near the end because his teammates couldn't get it done?

Game 6? Okay now you're just trolling me.


Lebron in game 5 is just obvious. No explanation needed. Game 6 though does, he took like what? 3-5 shots late in the 4th? The team didn't foul, remember that? That showed they gave up. Lebron didn't foul either, he gave up too. They all gave up, just admit that.
I'm pretty sure he was talking about Lebron.

[Bladers]

Game 2? You mean where the refs called all those bogus calls to get Bryant into foul trouble? He didn't even stop trying. He kept on being aggressive even when the refs were blatantly trying to stop him.

Game 4? REALLY? You mean the only man who actually showed up and played pretty damn ****ing good? :hammerhead:

Game 5? You mean after his 3rd quarter explosion and then was forced to chuck up shitload of shots near the end because his teammates couldn't get it done?

Game 6? Okay now you're just trolling me.


Lebron in game 5 is just obvious. No explanation needed. Game 6 though does, he took like what? 3-5 shots late in the 4th? The team didn't foul, remember that? That showed they gave up. Lebron didn't foul either, he gave up too. They all gave up, just admit that.


He's obviously talking about Lebron you dummy, not Kobe.

[brooks_thompson]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/S9SqJiEGnDI/AAAAAAAAB6E/vhbGuBTv36k/s1600/12.jpg

this is dying for a photoshop of james' head. the #6 is there and everything. get on it, dorks

[TheLogo]

This is fuel for Kobe and I wish Wade never said this.

Also, from the quotes, it looks like Wade has learned a few things from Lebron...he spoke of himself in the 3rd person.....:roll:

[niko]

Wade is good intentioned but him talking for Lebron is making Lebron seem like such a woman. He really should stop.

STOP PICKING ON MY BABY BROTHER LEBRON OR ILL BEAT YOU UP! HES NOT A QUITTER! HE'S NOT!

[OneMoreSucka]

http://images.damncrows.com/img/upld/smoking-crab.gif

[Lo1a]

So Wade is Bron's mouthpiece now?? Wtf, he can't talk for himself anymore?

[KobeDaMamba]

Kobe CANNOT wait to murk these clowns. Bring em on. Mamba on his way to #6. :pimp:

[TheLogo]

I think I can speak for most Heat fans and they are not very happy that Wade has made those comments.

Kobe is driven and this can be dangerous if they meet in the Finals.

[BFRESH44]

I think I can speak for most Heat fans and they are not very happy that Wade has made those comments.

Kobe is driven and this can be dangerous if they meet in the Finals.

Yes, I'm scared to death of Kobe "Jumpshooter" Bryant. :violin:

[TheLogo]

Yes, I'm scared to dealth of Kobe "Jumpshooter" Bryant. :violin:

Thanks for your honesty.

Ladies and gents....we need more posters like Bfresh.

He knows you can't win with 3 superstars and bums.

:rockon:

[opps]

Mo saved James' ass Game 1. Gasol saved Kobe's ass Game 7.

What am I missing here? :confusedshrug:

That is not true at all. If you want to credit anyone for game 7 credit Artest for keeping us in the game but game 7 was such a team win. All Kobe,Odom,Gasol,Fisher,Artest,Sasha, etc helped to win that game. They either helped through defense,rebounding,or scoring. And all Kobe,Gasol,Artest,Fisher,and Sasha made clutch shots.

And regarding Lebron he didnt play with half of the intensity as Kobe throughout whole series. Mo saved them in Game 1 and kept in it in Game 6. I think it was only a seven point game in Game 5 at the half with Lebron not having a shot from the field so ...

[cotdt]

Lebron in game 5 is just obvious. No explanation needed. Game 6 though does, he took like what? 3-5 shots late in the 4th? The team didn't foul, remember that? That showed they gave up. Lebron didn't foul either, he gave up too. They all gave up, just admit that.

Mike Brown wanted to foul to close the game but Lebron waived him off, and the team just stood there until the clock ticked down.

[cotdt]

I know it's the "in" thing to rip LeBron right now, but Wade is absolutely right. Anyone that watched the playoffs could see that Kobe had more around him than LeBron did. Kobe's game seven was every bit as bad as LeBron's game five. The difference was that the Lakers had more weapons and didn't depend solely on one guy to do everything for them.


Maybe the first 3 quarters Kobe played bad but Kobe made big play after big play in the 4th. Can anyone say that about Lebron Game 5?

[824]

I think I can speak for most Heat fans and they are not very happy that Wade has made those comments.

Kobe is driven and this can be dangerous if they meet in the Finals.

:hammerhead:

LOL

Yep, he's bookmarked those Wade comments to motivate him in over a year, he plans ahead ya know?

[chazzy]

Kobe's game seven was every bit as bad as LeBron's game five

Not at all.

[Kurosawa0]

Maybe the first 3 quarters Kobe played bad but Kobe made big play after big play in the 4th. Can anyone say that about Lebron Game 5?

Kobe damn near lost his team the championship. That's a lot bigger than giving the Celtics a 3-2 lead.

[cotdt]

Because Kobe damn near lost his team the championship.

Your idol D-Wade only won a chip because of biased refs calling phantom call after phantom call, so you've got nothing to say!

[cotdt]

And by the way, I love how they're butt buddies currently, but you know within the next few years they'll be bickering at each other which will force them to split up.

[Anaximandro1]

I NEVER wouyld have thought all this was possible a year ago.

Amazing. This is unbelieveable. These cats gey??

Fo real, real. :confusedshrug:

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/claudiohaagen/Funny%20Pictures/funnyvid.gif

:lol

[cotdt]

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/claudiohaagen/Funny%20Pictures/funnyvid.gif

:lol

And this is why Lebron still has no ring.

[ashlar]

Honestly if I was lebron's teammate during those games I would have hit layed him out(or die trying).

[KobeDaMamba]

Yes, I'm scared to death of Kobe "Jumpshooter" Bryant. :violin:
You will be when he hits ANOTHER gamewinning trey in your boy's face.

[wpdougie2180]

I don't get all this talk, Wade's absolutely right someone brought up Mo williams scoring 20 in the first half of game 6 he finished with 22 while Lebron had 13, 7, 5 at the half finishing with 27, 19, and 10 and tell me again who didn't show up. Lebron's #'s against the Celtics are better than Kobe's. All this talk about it motivating Kobe is BS also I guess he was so motivated to beat the Celtics he shoot sub 40% in every Laker win and 40% for the series not a knock on Kobe just pointing out how stupid of a talking point it is. And then there's the talk of his clutch 4th in game 7 he hit 1 shot people and got at least 1 superstar call (blocked dunk by pierce) and a few questionable calls. Just look at it this way when Derek Fisher plays better than your entire Bench and your starting SG your in trouble and he's the Laker's 6th or 7th best player.

[kobesabi]

Regardless whether he quit in games or not, he still did QUIT continuing his team, franchise, and playing for the city of Cleveland. That's fact.

[kobesabi]

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae285/claudiohaagen/Funny%20Pictures/funnyvid.gif

:lol
Is that the real LeDiva?

[G-train]

:rolleyes: .............


:pimp:

[bl2k8]

I don't get all this talk, Wade's absolutely right someone brought up Mo williams scoring 20 in the first half of game 6 he finished with 22 while Lebron had 13, 7, 5 at the half finishing with 27, 19, and 10 and tell me again who didn't show up. Lebron's #'s against the Celtics are better than Kobe's. All this talk about it motivating Kobe is BS also I guess he was so motivated to beat the Celtics he shoot sub 40% in every Laker win and 40% for the series not a knock on Kobe just pointing out how stupid of a talking point it is. And then there's the talk of his clutch 4th in game 7 he hit 1 shot people and got at least 1 superstar call (blocked dunk by pierce) and a few questionable calls. Just look at it this way when Derek Fisher plays better than your entire Bench and your starting SG your in trouble and he's the Laker's 6th or 7th best player.
10/2/1is better than 23/15/2? Stop exaggerating

[chopchop20]

This is almost beyond gay...

[Allstar24]

What are these guys so insecure of? They keep talking about Kobe...I think watching Kobe get his 5th ring hit them hard. They quickly joined forces to try and beat him :oldlol:

[branslowski]

LeBron must be giving out some good BJ's to Wade...






Someone post that pic with Wade/Bron where it looks like Bron is sucking Wade off..:oldlol:

[chopchop20]

What are these guys so insecure of? They keep talking about Kobe...I think watching Kobe get his 5th ring hit them hard. They quickly joined forces to try and beat him :oldlol:

We see how childish and immature these guys were this summer throughout the free agency process. But now they're coming off as kindergarten students.

"But Kobe had a bad game too..." :oldlol:

I mean, what professional athletes in ANY sport say stuff like this. And like you said, it reveals a layer jealousy since they both keep insinuating that Kobe only won the title because of his teammates

[Funnyfuka]

this is idiotic, the more they complain the more they are going to be bashed, that's psychology 101 here, shut your mouth, wait for the whole thing to be part of the past, and dont even dare answering back to back every single insult you re hearing.

It look likes they re both watching tv and internets messageboards, reading all articles written and preparing answers to justify lebron's actions.

Make it stop alrdy, it will only fuel the critics attacks who can smell when the prey is wounded.

[wpdougie2180]

10/2/1is better than 23/15/2? Stop exaggerating

Stop exaggerating what???? If your comparing their last games against the Celtics 27/19/10 beats 23/15/2 everyday of the week and twice on sunday

[amfirst]

It's not lakers fault that they play defense and rebound. Wade acting like Lakers players shot so good. When the whole game was a epic defensive battle, no one could make a shot, except for Artest who was intentionally left open.

[-M-I]

Lol @ Laker fans. "Oh this will just fuel Kobe!" Yeah I can't wait to see him shoot 6 for 24 again.

[Soundwave]

I think some criticism on LeBron is fair. The Cavs did get chumped out of the playoffs.

But he'll have chances in the future to redeem himself.

[chopchop20]

Stop exaggerating what???? If your comparing their last games against the Celtics 27/19/10 beats 23/15/2 everyday of the week and twice on sunday

Exactly.... makes no sense to compare a 2nd round performance to a Finals performance :cheers:

5 :rockon:

[PowerGlove]

damn. all the dude did was answer the questions given and yet this thread is flooded with lakers fans most notably, allstar24 talking about how kobe's 5th hit wade hard and all this garbage. No, jermaine oneal bricking 84% of his shots hit him hard.

[Allstar24]

We see how childish and immature these guys were this summer throughout the free agency process. But now they're coming off as kindergarten students.

"But Kobe had a bad game too..." :oldlol:

I mean, what professional athletes in ANY sport say stuff like this. And like you said, it reveals a layer jealousy since they both keep insinuating that Kobe only won the title because of his teammates
Yeah they can keep bringing up Kobe's bad games in the finals but nobody cares at this point...it's not changing the public's perception of them. I feel sorry for them, they are so insecure that they've started making excuses already :oldlol:

[bl2k8]

Stop exaggerating what???? If your comparing their last games against the Celtics 27/19/10 beats 23/15/2 everyday of the week and twice on sunday
you said derek fisher played better than Kobe in Game 7, that's why I said exaggerating. Kobe played better, yeah Fish had a better FG% but Kobe's game was needed more. Either way it's dumb arguing shit Kobe ALMOST did:roll:

[Indian guy]

I re-watched the whole series recently. The ONLY game that looked suspicious was Game 5, and even there it was mostly the 1st half. I'm with Wade here, LeBron definitely didn't quit. With the exception of the 1st half of Game 5, where he was passive, it's hard to question his effort at any point in the series. People are free to re-watch that series and put LeBron's play and emotional energy under the microscope. Believe me, you won't find anything.

As far as Wade and 'Bron bringing up Kobe's Game 7 goes, I don't blame them. Never while going up against last year's Boston team would they ever find themselves in a competitive game playing as poorly as Kobe did in Game 7. Through 3 qtrs he had 13 points on 5-20 shooting, and LA was down 3!! He shot 6-24 and won a game against the league's 2nd best team. I can see why it would p!ss Wade and LeBron off, who BOTH played better against Boston than Kobe did yet could never even find themselves in a competitive game when they were a little off.

[TheLogo]

Wade's is just trolling with his comments.

Kobe did not have a bad game. He didn't shoot well but that does not equate to a bad game when he's doing all the other stuff.

If you watch the game, it didn't look like he was playing poorly at all.

Also, the entire Lakers team shot like crap too.

[-M-I]

Yeah they can keep bringing up Kobe's bad games in the finals but nobody cares at this point...it's not changing the public's perception of them. I feel sorry for them, they are so insecure that they've started making excuses already :oldlol:
Laker fans have to be the worst trolls on the forum. Do you guys have trouble reading? Is that what it is? It was clear that he said Kobe had a bad game, yet his team was able to win despite it. I mean, are you actually trying to DENY that? Really? Wow.

[-M-I]

Kobe did not have a bad game. He didn't shoot well but that does not equate to a bad game when he's doing all the other stuff.

If you watch the game, it didn't look like he was playing poorly at all.


Wow :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Allstar24]

Uh oh...Miami bandwagoners/trolls getting mad because the truth hurts :oldlol:

[cotdt]

Kobe's game seven was every bit as bad as LeBron's game five. The difference was that the Lakers had more weapons and didn't depend solely on one guy to do everything for them.


You realize that Kobe's teammates in Game 7 shot even worse than Lebron's teammates in Game 5/6 right?

[PowerGlove]

Uh oh...Miami bandwagoners/trolls getting mad because the truth hurts :oldlol:
you're better than this.


seriously.

[-M-I]

Uh oh...Miami bandwagoners/trolls getting mad because the truth hurts :oldlol:
Uh oh, Laker fans resorting to personal attacks when they cant counter with a legitimate argument. :oldlol:

[Indian guy]

you're better than this.


seriously.

He isn't. I would nominate AllStar24 as the single most useless poster on this board. I don't think I have ever seen him make a single noteworthy post.

[chazzy]

He isn't. I would nominate AllStar24 as the single most useless poster on this board. I don't think I have ever seen him make a single noteworthy post.

ashbelly has an issue with this nomination.

[hawke812]

You realize that Kobe's teammates in Game 7 shot even worse than Lebron's teammates in Game 5/6 right?

TESTIFY!!!!!!!!!!:rockon:

[Allstar24]

you're better than this.


seriously.
I'm not actually :oldlol: All I'm saying is...you can't deny that something about watching Kobe win his 5th ring, while not having a great series, ticked these guys off. First of all, why are they getting so defensive and why are they bringing up Kobe's bad games in the finals numerous times to justify their actions?

I wish you wouldn't quote Indian Guy's post. I've had that guy on Ignore for awhile now and not seeing his retarded posts have made this forum better for me. The dude is still butthurt about Kobe winning Finals MVP.

[PleezeBelieve]

I re-watched the whole series recently. The ONLY game that looked suspicious was Game 5, and even there it was mostly the 1st half. I'm with Wade here, LeBron definitely didn't quit. With the exception of the 1st half of Game 5, where he was passive, it's hard to question his effort at any point in the series. People are free to re-watch that series and put LeBron's play and emotional energy under the microscope. Believe me, you won't find anything.

As far as Wade and 'Bron bringing up Kobe's Game 7 goes, I don't blame them. Never while going up against last year's Boston team would they ever find themselves in a competitive game playing as poorly as Kobe did in Game 7. Through 3 qtrs he had 13 points on 5-20 shooting, and LA was down 3!! He shot 6-24 and won a game against the league's 2nd best team. I can see why it would p!ss Wade and LeBron off, who BOTH played better against Boston than Kobe did yet could never even find themselves in a competitive game when they were a little off.
What about Game 1 when he floated around the entire game with minimal intensity till the 4th quarter?

What about all of Game 2?

What about Game 4 late in the fourth when he passed to Varejao for a 18ft baseline jumper even though he had a wide-ass open lay-up. Believe the Cavs were down two then and were never closer after that.

Rest of the games are self-explanatory.

[PowerGlove]

I dont think that Kobe's 5th bothered any of them. Both Wade and Bron, were pissed off before the finals even started. They know that they have been playing a while and want to win championships now.

[bl2k8]

I dont think that Kobe's 5th bothered any of them. Both Wade and Bron, were pissed off before the finals even started. They know that they have been playing a while and want to win championships now.
LeBron was the only one out of those 3 with a squad that could contend, only thing he should be mad at is himself.

[PowerGlove]

LeBron was the only one out of those 3 with a squad that could contend, only thing he should be mad at is himself.
Hmmmm...how did that relate to what you just quoted?

[zORi]

LeBron's teammates didn't help him out?

It sounds like he's defending his girlfriend. :oldlol:

Lol, it kind of does.

That being said, it's clear who the leader is on this team.

I haven't heard James or Bosh even defend themselves, let alone each other. Wade is the only one who came out of this without a scratch to his reputation (maybe even bolstered it), and yet he still jumps into the fray to defend his teammates.

C'mon, Wade is a true leader.

[chopchop20]

I re-watched the whole series recently. The ONLY game that looked suspicious was Game 5, and even there it was mostly the 1st half. I'm with Wade here, LeBron definitely didn't quit. With the exception of the 1st half of Game 5, where he was passive, it's hard to question his effort at any point in the series. People are free to re-watch that series and put LeBron's play and emotional energy under the microscope. Believe me, you won't find anything.

As far as Wade and 'Bron bringing up Kobe's Game 7 goes, I don't blame them. Never while going up against last year's Boston team would they ever find themselves in a competitive game playing as poorly as Kobe did in Game 7. Through 3 qtrs he had 13 points on 5-20 shooting, and LA was down 3!! He shot 6-24 and won a game against the league's 2nd best team. I can see why it would p!ss Wade and LeBron off, who BOTH played better against Boston than Kobe did yet could never even find themselves in a competitive game when they were a little off.

Again, it's apparent that we're dealing with spoiled little brats here. You've never heard any great athletes in any sports say such nonsense.

That's like MJ in the the mid-80's saying that the only reason that Magic beat the Pistons was because he had better teammates on the Lakers

[Indian guy]

What about Game 1 when he floated around the entire game with minimal intensity till the 4th quarter?

This is completely untrue. LeBron came out every aggressive in this game. He was all over Pierce defensively the whole night. Also had 23 points prior to the big 4th qtr.


What about all of Game 2?

What about it? Cleveland couldn't guard Boston to save their lives and got their ass kicked from the get go.


What about Game 4 late in the fourth when he passed to Varejao for a 18ft baseline jumper even though he had a wide-ass open lay-up.

Ummm, no. He was isolated against Garnett at the top of key while down 4 with 3 minutes left, and chose to set up an open Varejao. Bad decision, no doubt, but hardly proof of tanking/quitting. This is the game I re-watched first because when it initially happened, I was furious at LeBron for looking lackadaisical. Upon re-watching it though, I couldn't find anything to complain about. He went hard the whole night.

Those who are intent on believing LeBron intentionally quit in a bunch of games seriously need to re-watch the series. It doesn't take more than 15-20 mins. to zip through a game when you can skip commercials, timeouts, free throws and PGs bringing the ball up. So watch it, analyze it, and then tell me what you think. I couldn't find anything and I could be biased too. I'd love to know what somebody else thought.

[hotsizzle]

I re-watched the whole series recently. The ONLY game that looked suspicious was Game 5, and even there it was mostly the 1st half. I'm with Wade here, LeBron definitely didn't quit. With the exception of the 1st half of Game 5, where he was passive, it's hard to question his effort at any point in the series. People are free to re-watch that series and put LeBron's play and emotional energy under the microscope. Believe me, you won't find anything.

As far as Wade and 'Bron bringing up Kobe's Game 7 goes, I don't blame them. Never while going up against last year's Boston team would they ever find themselves in a competitive game playing as poorly as Kobe did in Game 7. Through 3 qtrs he had 13 points on 5-20 shooting, and LA was down 3!! He shot 6-24 and won a game against the league's 2nd best team. I can see why it would p!ss Wade and LeBron off, who BOTH played better against Boston than Kobe did yet could never even find themselves in a competitive game when they were a little off.

Boston in 08 were better and Lebron shot much worse and the series was close all the way

[PowerGlove]

Boston in 08 were better and Lebron shot much worse and the series was close all the way
How is that a valid comparison?

I dont remember Rondo dropping triple doubles in that series.

I remember Ray Allen was still in the middle of a huge slump just like this years finals.

[oh the horror]

The real issue here and something that is telling to me is....why in the HELL is Wade speaking on Lebron's behalf?


Is Lebron sitting in bed, crying himself to sleep over this? If James doesnt care too much, then what is Wade doing here?



Wade's people need to step in and tell dude to relax....stop reading newspapers, checking internet web sites, and such, and ignore all of the outside chatter. These fools need to concentrate on their OWN thing.




Why do they keep bringing Kobe up?? All of that seems irrelevant.

[hotsizzle]

How is that a valid comparison?

I dont remember Rondo dropping triple doubles in that series.

I remember Ray Allen was still in the middle of a huge slump just like this years finals.

The notion that the Cavs never won when Lebron plays bad is false.

[Bladers]

How is that a valid comparison?

I dont remember Rondo dropping triple doubles in that series.

I remember Ray Allen was still in the middle of a huge slump just like this years finals.

Dude shot 11% and only lost by 4 in game 1.
Dude shot under 30% in 6 games and was STILL carried by his team to a GM 7.

DAMN!

[wpdougie2180]

you said derek fisher played better than Kobe in Game 7, that's why I said exaggerating. Kobe played better, yeah Fish had a better FG% but Kobe's game was needed more. Either way it's dumb arguing shit Kobe ALMOST did:roll:

I was talking about the Cavs not Kobe Fisher played better than the Cavs bench and starting SG

Reading Comprehension helps

[HiphopRelated]

I think I can speak for most Heat fans and they are not very happy that Wade has made those comments.

Kobe is driven and this can be dangerous if they meet in the Finals.


please don't

[Fatal9]

The real issue here and something that is telling to me is....why in the HELL is Wade speaking on Lebron's behalf?
The King needs to protect his court jester.

[The_Yearning]

Dude shot 11% and only lost by 4 in game 1.
Dude shot under 30% in 6 games and was STILL carried by his team to a GM 7.

DAMN!

Who the Fk are you talking about? Who the Fk is "Dude"?

SmH

[shadow]

I used to respect Wade but ever since he became LeBron's "man" I'm starting to get annoyed by him. Dude just shut up and let the media hooplah die. The more you yap the longer it stirs.

[oh the horror]

I used to respect Wade but ever since he became LeBron's "man" I'm starting to get annoyed by him. Dude just shut up and let the media hooplah die. The more you yap the longer it stirs.



What I dont understand is why he is even speaking on Lebron's behalf.....Lebron is a grown ass man. Whats the deal here?

[JM720]

What I dont understand is why he is even speaking on Lebron's behalf.....Lebron is a grown ass man. Whats the deal here?

A king defending his queen, cut him some slack.

[Kobe4life]

Is Bron hiding in a cave somewhere. Why is Wade doing all the talking?
cuz he has better things to do than trying to look good in front you lames

[sayitaintso]

Just reading the first page of this thread seems that the power of "insults" can free them of the fear of what LeBron/Wade/Bosh will do to them.

[HiphopRelated]

Wade's hosting Summer Groove with Zo

Can only answer the questions the media asks

[AK47DR91]

lol...Wade playing the role of a father figure defending his boy again. :oldlol:

[thejumpa]

The real issue here and something that is telling to me is....why in the HELL is Wade speaking on Lebron's behalf?


Is Lebron sitting in bed, crying himself to sleep over this? If James doesnt care too much, then what is Wade doing here?



Wade's people need to step in and tell dude to relax....stop reading newspapers, checking internet web sites, and such, and ignore all of the outside chatter. These fools need to concentrate on their OWN thing.




Why do they keep bringing Kobe up?? All of that seems irrelevant.

I'm not sure why you are so upset about this. They asked Wade a question about his teammate. What do you expect him to do? Say "Go ask LeBron"? No. He'd rather answer the simple question with a simple opinion.

I highly doubt Wade's people are looking at anything. The Miami Heat are the talk of the league right now.Surely you can see that. If Wade had a birthday party for his son in Chicago, you can bet reporters will sneak in and ask him about the team or LeBron.

You're acting like Wade answered a question he asked himself. He was most likely reacting to a reporter asking him about what Dan Gilbert said.

People bring up Kobe because he had didn't have the greatest Finals against Boston, either. That's a fact. Wade isn't teling a lie here...

[PowerGlove]

I swear to god, no one cares if you respect lebron or wade. why do people honestly feel the need to convey that?

[ginobli2311]

I'm not sure why you are so upset about this. They asked Wade a question about his teammate. What do you expect him to do? Say "Go ask LeBron"? No. He'd rather answer the simple question with a simple opinion.

I highly doubt Wade's people are looking at anything. The Miami Heat are the talk of the league right now.Surely you can see that. If Wade had a birthday party for his son in Chicago, you can bet reporters will sneak in and ask him about the team or LeBron.

You're acting like Wade answered a question he asked himself. He was most likely reacting to a reporter asking him about what Dan Gilbert said.

People bring up Kobe because he had didn't have the greatest Finals against Boston, either. That's a fact. Wade isn't teling a lie here...

exactly. people bring up kobe because he sucked ass in the finals and played a pathetic game 7....yet the lakers won. i wonder why. could it be his stacked team and the greatest coach ever at his side? what a crazy thought.........

kobe/laker fans and lebron non fans....please answer the following questions.

mike brown or phil jackson....who is the better coach?
lebron or kobe.....who had the better supporting cast?
could the cavs beat the celtics in a game 7 if lebron was 3-17 at one point in the 2nd half?

please answer honestly. don't complain. don't dodge the questions. just yes or no answers please.

[Bladers]

Who the Fk are you talking about? Who the Fk is "Dude"?

SmH

'Self Anointed' King James

[Bladers]

exactly. people bring up kobe because he sucked ass in the finals and played a pathetic game 7....yet the lakers won. i wonder why. could it be his stacked team and the greatest coach ever at his side? what a crazy thought.........

kobe/laker fans and lebron non fans....please answer the following questions.

mike brown or phil jackson....who is the better coach?
lebron or kobe.....who had the better supporting cast?
could the cavs beat the celtics in a game 7 if lebron was 3-17 at one point in the 2nd half?

please answer honestly. don't complain. don't dodge the questions. just yes or no answers please.

Dude shot 11% and only lost by 4 in game 1.
Dude shot under 30% in 6 games and was STILL carried by his team to a GM 7 against the 08 Celtics.

DAMN!

[Micku]

I'm shocked at Wade speaking for LeBron. I'm guessing Wade is going to be the most vocal out of the three, which surprise me.

[ginobli2311]

Dude shot 11% and only lost by 4 in game 1.
Dude shot under 30% in 6 games and was STILL carried by his team to a GM 7.

DAMN!

what does that have to do with the current cavs? that was in 08. the cavs were actually a much better built playoff team in 08. they could actually play defense and get big stops.

check my posts. i have consistently maintained that the cavs were much better teams back in 07/08. lebron was not as good as he is now.....but those cavs teams in 07/08 were much much better. give them a legit 2nd option (say carlos boozer perhaps........) and the cavs win it all in both 07 and 08 most likely. certainly 08 though.

again. please stay on point. the current cavs 2010 team. thanks bud.

and also. lebron impacts the game in much more ways better than kobe does. just a simple fact.

and......the cavs lost that game. LOL at you using a loss. if the cavs had won your point would be valid. but you bring up a LOSS in 08 as your evidence for 2010 with a different team? LOL.....thats more than a reach bud.

[chazzy]

I swear to god, no one cares if you respect lebron or wade. why do people honestly feel the need to convey that?

Tell that to Dan Gilbert's face and see what happens! He'll put a curse on you too.

[nashisbest]

Mo saved James' ass Game 1. Gasol saved Kobe's ass Game 7.

What am I missing here? :confusedshrug:

I think you mistaken Gasol with that clueless dude wondering around the court in Game 7 and scored a whole bunch - his name is Ron Artest

If you put Lebron with the Lakers'10, they would have won the series. Cavs'10 supporting cast is clearly inferior to Lakers'10 supporting cast

[Bladers]

what does that have to do with the current cavs? that was in 08. the cavs were actually a much better built playoff team in 08. they could actually play defense and get big stops.

check my posts. i have consistently maintained that the cavs were much better teams back in 07/08. lebron was not as good as he is now.....but those cavs teams in 07/08 were much much better. give them a legit 2nd option (say carlos boozer perhaps........) and the cavs win it all in both 07 and 08 most likely. certainly 08 though.

again. please stay on point. the current cavs 2010 team. thanks bud.


When you call someone out, Like Lebron did.
You also call yourself out everytime your team has carried you.
You can't say, well my team didn't carry me this year so it don't count for me.
That doesn't fly.

The fact still stands, his team has carried him all the way to a Game 7 in the ECF against a better celtics, while he was shooting under 30%...

So he needs to stfu and be quiet.
Someone should have showed Wade 08 Celtics vs Cavs stats so he can stfu too.
You can't complain about another player when you have received the same treatment against the same team 2 years ago...

[gts]

I'm shocked at Wade speaking for LeBron. I'm guessing Wade is going to be the most vocal out of the three, which surprise me.it's his team, he's the team leader...

[blaze_itt]

If you put Lebron with the Lakers'10, they would have won the series.
Can you prove this to me? thanks

[rosonviyavong]

Ive heard that one before ..come on Wade we need fresh material here

[kobesabi]

Wade the "man" is protecting his "woman" again.

[knightfall88]

lebron taking 14 shots, he clearly didn't try.

[clayton]

The Boss have spoken. That is all. :pimp:

[chopchop20]

This "Me First" generation is just like the hustlers in the streets looking for that fast money. They have no patience, maturity, or integrity to work for anything.
But they are always quick to make excuses when the sh.it hits the fan

[SSSTRESSS]

Yeh the team with the BEST RECORD in the league but WORST leader in the playoffs LOST.

Big deal.

[momo]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5384202

Is this a remake of the Love connection??

Seriously??

Can you go on the record & state what player/players this account is going to troll about just so I can keep it straight in my head? And if you are feeling real generous, state what the other accounts are going to troll about as well?

It will make everything simpler for everyone.

[EricForman]

the hate on bron is just getting delusional on ISH. if you look through kobe and lebron's playoff career and pull the ten worst games, eight of them probably belongs to kobe.

all this about his lackadaisical demeanor from kobe fans... who pulled the same thing in 2007?

also, if you take the best non-Lebron Cav playoff performance of the past 7 years, it probably wouldnt even crack the top 30 non-Kobe best Laker playoff performance from 1996 to now.

just for fun, what would the best non-Lebron Cav playoff performance be the past seven years? The boobie gibson game where he got hot and hit a bunch of threes? That is about on par to kareem rush doing the same thing for the Lakers in 2004 WCF and no one would even rank that top ten on non-Kobe Laker performances of the past five years.

[chazzy]

the hate on bron is just getting delusional on ISH. if you look through kobe and lebron's playoff career and pull the ten worst games, eight of them probably belongs to kobe.

all this about his lackadaisical demaenour from kobe fans... who pulled the same thing in 2007?

also, if you take the best non-Lebron Cav playoff performance of the past 7 years, it probably wouldnt even crack the top 25 non-Kobe best Laker playoff performance from 1996 to now.

just for fun, what would the best non-Lebron Cav playoff performance be the past seven years? The boobie gibson game where he got hot and hit a bunch of threes? That is about on par to kareem rush doing the same thing for the Lakers in 2004 WCF and no one would even rank that top ten on non-Kobe Laker performances of the past five years.

What is your point, why are you going off on a rant about non-Kobe/Lebron players and Kareem and Boobie etc. etc. :oldlol:

It's fresh, just happened. Much like all the heat Kobe got in the 06 summer, this will die down with time as well. With the game 5 disaster, and subsequent handling of "The Decision," the widespread media backlash in reaction to it all is expected. Nothing to be confused about.. people will get over it.

[Kurosawa0]

It's fresh, just happened. Much like all the heat Kobe got in the 06 summer, this will die down with time as well.

Exactly. All this talk of "Miami Cheats" and "LeBron ruined his legacy" will look a lot different if they bring home some jewelry in the next few years.

[RedBlackAttack]

Exactly. All this talk of "Miami Cheats" and "LeBron ruined his legacy" will look a lot different if they bring home some jewelry in the next few years.
How so (the legacy reference)?

[Lebron23]

How so (the legacy reference)?


Winning changes everything.

[Kurosawa0]

How so (the legacy reference)?

Winning is winning. If we see LeBron go to Miami, play the point, flirt with averaging a triple double and win a ring, that's going to be a big deal. It's a hell of a lot better than if he'd stayed in Cleveland and ends up still trying to get back out of the East.

Right or wrong, in NBA, it's all about rings. We can make fun of him now for teaming up with Wade, but if they win, that all becomes secondary to the fact that they won. I mean, is Kobe's career better or worse for having those three rings with Shaq?

[RedBlackAttack]

Winning changes everything.
Wrong.

No one is magically forgetting that he left his original team of seven years without winning a title. If he wins one with Wade, Bosh, and whatever other all-stars they get to join them, good for him... But it won't be nearly the accomplishment that winning one in Cleveland or even winning one in Chicago/New York/New Jersey would have been.

His legacy will never be what it could have been due to him effectively chasing a ring at 25.

Winning does not change everything. I've been hearing this a little too often from James apologists over the last few days.

Sure... It will be good for his legacy if he wins titles in Miami, but he will never/can never reach the level of a Jordan or Bird or any of the other greats due to his choice to move to a quasi-all-star team with an established star that has already won a title and is the undisputed leader of that particular squad.

That will not fade.

[EricForman]

What is your point, why are you going off on a rant about non-Kobe/Lebron players and Kareem and Boobie etc. etc. :oldlol:

It's fresh, just happened. Much like all the heat Kobe got in the 06 summer, this will die down with time as well. With the game 5 disaster, and subsequent handling of "The Decision," the widespread media backlash in reaction to it all is expected. Nothing to be confused about.. people will get over it.


what is my point? you guys refuse to acknowledge taht lebron has had minimal help his entire stint. clowning him for having no rings? outside of prime Shaq, i dont know if theres anyone from the modern era who woulda won a ring with Lebron's cast from 2003 to 2009. Lebron should get flack for 2010 loss, that's it. his cast from 2003 to 2009 was at best average and at worse mediocre.

you guys either dont understand or refuse to put things into context. that long paragraph i wrote earlier (which paints a picture of how bad lebrons cast is compared to kobes) can't be denied, and it should be enough to shut kobe fans from throwing the rings argument or clownign lebron for losing.

the key word is SHOULD, most of y'all dont like to follow logic. you laker fans logic:

"yes, from 2003 to 2009, the best player to play with Lebron was Mo Williams, who wouldn't even crack kobe's top 8 teammates for his career... let's ignore that! and lets just clown lebron for having zero rings!"

Please.

[scm5]

the hate on bron is just getting delusional on ISH. if you look through kobe and lebron's playoff career and pull the ten worst games, eight of them probably belongs to kobe.

This is designed to work against Kobe. The Lakers were in the playoffs when Kobe didn't even start or get starters minutes for them. Kobe has also had a longer career which basically guarantees you more bad games than a player with a shorter career. Also, Kobe was in the playoffs with Cook, Radman, Smush, Kwame, and Luke in and out of starter positions. I know Lebron has had some bad teams, but as bad as Kobe's?


also, if you take the best non-Lebron Cav playoff performance of the past 7 years, it probably wouldnt even crack the top 30 non-Kobe best Laker playoff performance from 1996 to now.

Another statement designed to work against Kobe. Kobe has played with Shaq, which basically trumps even Lebron's playoff performances.

Look, I could argue all day about how Lebron's team is essentially designed to revolve around Lebron and give him stats. He is their system. He always has a 40%+ 3 point shooter on the wings. He has plays designed for players like JJ Hickson and Jamario Moon to get the backdoor lob pass for the alley-oop. These shooters provide spacing for Lebron to slash his way in and either finish at the hoop or dish it out for a high percentage 3 when the defense collapses.

The fact is, they play in two different systems at different paces, with different players and different spacing. Compare with your eyes and your brain rather than stats.

[Kurosawa0]

Wrong.

No one is magically forgetting that he left his original team of seven years without winning a title. If he wins one with Wade, Bosh, and whatever other all-stars they get to join them, good for him... But it won't be nearly the accomplishment that winning one in Cleveland or even winning one in Chicago/New York/New Jersey would have been.

His legacy will never be what it could have been due to him effectively chasing a ring at 25.

Winning does not change everything. I've been hearing this a little too often from James apologists over the last few days.

Sure... It will be good for his legacy if he wins titles in Miami, but he will never/can never reach the level of a Jordan or Bird or any of the other greats due to his choice to move to a quasi-all-star team with an established star that has already won a title and is the undisputed leader of that particular squad.

That will not fade.

I'm sorry, but that all sounds like wishful thinking. The one truth throughout the history of NBA is that winning equals greatness. Seriously, when has anyone really been worse off for winning championships?

[chazzy]

what is my point? you guys refuse to acknowledge taht lebron has had minimal help his entire stint. clowning him for having no rings? outside of prime Shaq, i dont know if theres anyone from the modern era who woulda won a ring with Lebron's cast from 2003 to 2009. Lebron should get flack for 2010 loss, that's it. his cast from 2003 to 2009 was at best average and at worse mediocre.

you guys either dont understand or refuse to put things into context. that long paragraph i wrote earlier (which paints a picture of how bad lebrons cast is compared to kobes) can't be denied, and it should be enough to shut kobe fans from throwing the rings argument or clownign lebron for losing.

the key word is SHOULD, most of y'all dont like to follow logic.

The same way people clowned Kobe for not winning without Shaq despite not having an adequate cast 05-07. People say irrational things. Nothing new, life isn't fair..

[Sakkreth]

Kobe winning with Shaq is different from LeBron winning with Wade, kobe was option nr.2 while LeBron is going to be option 1a at worst.

[Kurosawa0]

The same way people clowned Kobe for not winning without Shaq despite not having an adequate cast 05-07. People say irrational things. Nothing new, life isn't fair..

Yeah, but having won them was better for Kobe than never having won anything at all.

That's what irks me about people saying LeBron should've stayed in Cleveland for his legacy. I'm sure all the people saying that winning one ring in Cleveland would mean more than winning three in Miami wouldn't end up bashing LeBron for only winning one ring, right?

[EricForman]

Another statement designed to work against Kobe. Kobe has played with Shaq, which basically trumps even Lebron's playoff performances.

.


Let's take Shaq out of the equation. Hell, let's even take PAU out of the equation. Guys like Odom and Artest and Bynum still has put up better playoff performances than anyone not named Lebron the past seven years.

this year alone, Odom had a 19/19 game and Artest dropped a 25/5/5. Do you ever recall any Cav outside of Lebron putting up those numbers?

it's not a bash on kobe, it's just to point out how little help Lebron has had, and how ridiculous it is you guys keep bashing him for not having won a ring yet. As I've said many times, this season is really the only one you can blame him.

[Lebron23]

Wrong.

No one is magically forgetting that he left his original team of seven years without winning a title. If he wins one with Wade, Bosh, and whatever other all-stars they get to join them, good for him... But it won't be nearly the accomplishment that winning one in Cleveland or even winning one in Chicago/New York/New Jersey would have been.

His legacy will never be what it could have been due to him effectively chasing a ring at 25.

Winning does not change everything. I've been hearing this a little too often from James apologists over the last few days.

Sure... It will be good for his legacy if he wins titles in Miami, but he will never/can never reach the level of a Jordan or Bird or any of the other greats due to his choice to move to a quasi-all-star team with an established star that has already won a title and is the undisputed leader of that particular squad.

That will not fade.


That's true.

But according to some ISH Forummers LeBron needs to win an NBA title if he wants to be regarded as a top 10 player in NBA History.

LeBron would still put up great numbers with the Miami Heat.

Pat Riley would turn him into a modern day version of Magic Johnson.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm sorry, but that all sounds like wishful thinking. The one truth throughout the history of NBA is that winning equals greatness. Seriously, when has anyone really been worse off for winning championships?
Worse off for winning championships? That isn't what I said at all.

In fact, I said the opposite. LeBron literally has to win titles now. If he doesn't do so almost immediately, he will not maintain his lofty place that he has had over the past few years.

Yes... Winning titles will help his legacy. I just said that winning titles with this Miami team won't and can't mean as much as if he had done it on his original team or any other team that didn't feature a Top 3 player in the league and possibly the best power forward.

I don't see how people can argue against that. This mentality of a guy only needing to win a title and how he got there is completely forgotten... I just don't understand it. The journey is as important as the ring.

So... For argument's sake, let's say the Heat signed Dwight Howard and Chris Paul (obviously couldn't happen, but just to make a point).

Would a starting five of Paul, Wade, James, Bosh, and Howard mean even half as much as a superstar who did it by either building a winner with their original team or at least doing it without four of the best players in the NBA?

At what point does the roster and how these guys came together start to matter?

Jordan would not be considered the GOAT if, after getting destroyed yet again by Detroit in 1989, he said, "f*ck it" and joined Hakeem or Ewing somewhere else.

The fact that he battled for so long, faced so many questions, and eventually rose above all of that to become immortal in the place where all of the previous failures happened made it infinitely more special. Same with Kareem and the Bucks, Magic and the Lakers, Bird and the Celtics, Dream with the Rockets....

And, you know what... Some players prove that they aren't on that absolute best of the best level by not winning a title as the man in their prime. It is a risk, but a mandatory one. If there weren't guys that didn't succeed, it wouldn't make the guys who do ultimately win so special.

LeBron just took away the threat of not living up to his potential and virtually guaranteed himself multiple rings. That is not the way it is supposed to be done and his legacy will forever reflect it.

What James did makes me really, honestly respect guys like Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Gary Payton, and Patrick Ewing for their fortitude and will to keep trying, even when there were better teams out there, in an attempt to build their own legacies. The risk that they took ended up leaving them with no titles, but at least they can stand tall and know that they gave it everything they had and just weren't quite great enough.

LeBron looked that challenge square in the eye and opted to go around it... At 25 years old.

Unprecedented for a player of his caliber.


And, I have to laugh at the 'wishful thinking' line. There was no bigger a James fan on this board than me over the last seven years. Sure... I was a Cleveland fan first, but I was also a big fan of LeBron's game and I defended him staunchly.

I said during the season that I would have a hard time rooting against him, even if he left. I just can't respect a move like this.

[Kurosawa0]

Pat Riley would turn him into a modern day version of Magic Johnson.

And you can argue Magic's one of the top five players ever.

It has never hurt great players to play with other great players. If Kobe and Shaq don't have their little feud, no one's laying Shaq being the best player on the team on Kobe.

The idea that if LeBron wins five rings in Miami people are still going to be saying "Yeah, but what about Cleveland??" is just stupid.

Come on...

[chazzy]

That's what irks me about people saying LeBron should've stayed in Cleveland for his legacy. I'm sure all the people saying that winning one ring in Cleveland would mean more than winning three in Miami wouldn't end up bashing LeBron for only winning one ring, right?

The problem people had with him going to Miami is that it essentially took away his window of GOAT potential, because there's a good chance that if Miami IS a dynasty, Wade will get some FMVPs of his own. Whereas in Chi, Cle, or NY, he's the undisputed #1 guy. Playing with someone else who people can argue is better than you makes the potential titles not as meaningful. But realistically, Miami is probably his best option legacy-wise regardless. It's the best situation to win titles, it just takes away whatever chance he had at surpassing MJ (which was slim anyway)

[Kurosawa0]

Worse off for winning championships? That isn't what I said at all.

In fact, I said the opposite. LeBron literally has to win titles now. If he doesn't do so almost immediately, he will not maintain his lofty place that he has had over the past few years.

Yes... Winning titles will help his legacy. I just said that winning titles with this Miami team won't and can't mean as much as if he had done it on his original team or any other team that didn't feature a Top 3 player in the league and possibly the best power forward.

I don't see how people can argue against that. This mentality of a guy winning a title and how he got there is completely forgotten... I just don't understand it. The journey is as important as the ring.

So... For argument's sake, let's say the Heat signed Dwight Howard and Chris Paul (obviously couldn't happen, but just to make a point).

Would a starting five of Paul, Wade, James, Bosh, and Howard mean even half as much as a superstar who did it by either building a winner with their original team or at least doing it without four of the best players in the NBA?

At what point does the roster and how these guys came together start to matter?

Jordan would not be considered the GOAT if, after getting destroyed yet again by Detroit in 1989, he said, "f*ck it" and joined Hakeem or Ewing somewhere else.

The fact that he battled for so long, faced so many questions, and eventually rose above all of that to become immortal in the place where all of the previous failures happened made it infinitely more special. Same with Kareem and the Bucks, Magic and the Lakers, Bird and the Celtics, Dream with the Rockets....

And, you know what... Some players prove that they aren't on that absolute best of the best level by not winning a title as the man in their prime. It is a risk, but a mandatory one. If there weren't guys that didn't succeed, it wouldn't make the guys who do ultimately win so special.

LeBron just took away the threat of not living up to his potential and virtually guaranteed himself multiple rings. That is not the way it is supposed to be done and his legacy will forever reflect it.

What James did makes me really, honestly respect guys like Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Gary Payton, and Patrick Ewing for their fortitude and will to keep trying, even when there were better teams out there, in an attempt to build their own legacies. The risk that they took ended up leaving them with no titles, but at least they can stand tall and know that they gave it everything they had and just weren't quite great enough.

LeBron looked that challenge square in the eye and opted to go around it... At 25 years old.

Unprecedented for a player of his caliber.


And, I have to laugh at the 'wishful thinking' line. There was no bigger a James fan on this board than me over the last seven years. Sure... I was a Cleveland fan first, but I was also a big fan of LeBron's game and I defended him staunchly.

I said during the season that I would have a hard time rooting against him, even if he left. I just can't respect a move like this.

First off, Jordan didn't do it alone. He was lucky to have Pippen, a player that could've been argued to be one of the top five players in the league. Many forget that Michael actually asked to be traded to New York before the Bulls started winning. To say that if in 1990 Ewing, Michael and Barkley could've all played together they wouldn't have done it is ridiculous.

The difference is that it will mean more for LeBron to win *several* rings in Miami than if he only got one in Cleveland. With the shape that team is in, he might have been lucky to only get one ring or he might not have won one at all.

[RedBlackAttack]

The idea that if LeBron wins five rings in Miami people are still going to be saying "Yeah, but what about Cleveland??" is just stupid.


It doesn't matter what people in Miami are saying. Of course they won't care how they get the title (or maybe they do... I don't want to speak for them). What will matter is how historians look at it and how the general public views how he attained those rings (if he even gets them).

You can rest assured that those people will not forget.

[oh the horror]

Jordan would not be considered the GOAT if, after getting destroyed yet again by Detroit in 1989, he said, "f*ck it" and joined Hakeem or Ewing somewhere else.

The fact that he battled for so long, faced so many questions, and eventually rose above all of that to become immortal in the place where all of the previous failures happened made it infinitely more special.


Funny thing was...the situation was similar too....almost....I remember Jordan and the Bulls improving every year, and people would assume that the next year would be "THE YEAR JORDAN FINALLY DOES IT"....Only to watch them bounced out again, and again...

Until finally...FINALLY they disposed of teams in their paths, and won multiple championships.




Honestly Im not sure of the age range here, but I assume this is why its different for the older crowd in regards to Lebron....

[RedBlackAttack]

First off, Jordan didn't do it alone. He was lucky to have Pippen, a player that could've been argued to be one of the top five players in the league. Many forget that Michael actually asked to be traded to New York before the Bulls started winning. To say that if in 1990 Ewing, Michael and Barkley could've all played together they wouldn't have done it is ridiculous.

The difference is that it will mean more for LeBron to win *several* rings in Miami than if he only got one in Cleveland. With the shape that team is in, he might have been lucky to only get one ring or he might not have won one at all.
First of all, Jordan built his legacy in one place. KAJ won a title with the team that drafted him.... As did Bird... And Magic.

You can literally go right down the list of the greatest of the greats and they all won titles with their original teams to cement their legacies there before moving on to greener pastures and/or chasing rings elsewhere (most never did that, btw).

Second, at what point was Pippen a Top 3 player in the NBA? Are you going to compare Horace Grant to Chris Bosh next?

This was an unprecedented move by a player this great and this young, so it is pointless to even bring up those other guys in trying to justify this move.

The only reason to bring those guys up is to show just how completely different a path James has chosen.

I've spoken enough about this topic... I'm tired of it. But, I'm also tired of hearing 'rings cure everything.'

It is just beyond ridiculous. The journey is as important or more important than the title itself.

[Kurosawa0]

The problem people had with him going to Miami is that it essentially took away his window of GOAT potential, because there's a good chance that if Miami IS a dynasty, Wade will get some FMVPs of his own. Whereas in Chi, Cle, or NY, he's the undisputed #1 guy. Playing with someone else who people can argue is better than you makes the potential titles not as meaningful. But realistically, Miami is probably his best option legacy-wise regardless.

See, that's what I think. Sure, it would've been nice if he could've won several rings as the main guy in Cleveland, but that wasn't going to happen. That's not a knock on LeBron either. It wasn't going to happen for a lot of reasons.

See, I think LeBron & Wade have the chance to go down as the greatest duo ever to form. They've got the talent and the star power to be truly memorable. I keep thinking of how Magic and Larry shaped each other's careers. Neither would be as fondly remembered without the other. That's not just about competition, but that they shared an era of greatness. The eight titles between them almost seem to belong to them both.

If Wade & LeBron can approach that level, it will surpass anything that they realistically could've done individually.

[oh the horror]

In this case, the ring would be a bandaid for a GUSHING wound that requires more than a mere bandaid.


Just sayin'


Lebron will win rings, but that dark cloud will always loom, and in this generation of instant success, and blowing your load early, people seem to believe that winning is everything, meanwhile they'll sell their very souls to get there.


Im not saying this Lebron situation is as serious as that, but the stigma will always be there concerning Lebron and the so called greatness he desires.

[Kurosawa0]

First of all, Jordan built his legacy in one place. KAJ won a title with the team that drafted him.... As did Bird... And Magic.

You can literally go right down the list of the greatest of the greats and they all won titles with their original teams to cement their legacies there before moving on to greener pastures and/or chasing rings elsewhere (most never did that, btw).

Second, at what point was Pippen a Top 3 player in the NBA? Are you going to compare Horace Grant to Chris Bosh next?

This was an unprecedented move by a player this great and this young, so it is pointless to even bring up those other guys in trying to justify this move.

The only reason to bring those guys up is to show just how completely different a path James has chosen.

I've spoken enough about this topic... I'm tired of it. But, I'm also tired of hearing 'rings cure everything.'

It is just beyond ridiculous. The journey is as important or more important than the title itself.

Name five players from 1991 to 1998 that were better than Pippen. To pretend that Jordan didn't have one of the all-time greats next to him is laughable.

Shaq didn't win a ring with the team that drafted him and that didn't hurt his legacy. What's hurt Shaq's legacy is what he's done since winning his rings.

If LeBron wins a bunch of rings in Miami, the story will shift from his killing Cleveland to how he had to leave because he didn't have help. After all, that is the real truth.

[RedBlackAttack]

Name five players from 1991 to 1998 that were better than Pippen. To pretend that Jordan didn't have one of the all-time greats next to him is laughable.

Shaq didn't win a ring with the team that drafted him and that didn't hurt his legacy. What's hurt Shaq's legacy is what he's done since winning his rings.

If LeBron wins a bunch of rings in Miami, the story will shift from his killing Cleveland to how he had to leave because he didn't have help. After all, that is the real truth.
Your argument is that rosters never matter, nor does proving that you can win a title as the clear-cut No. 1, best player, and leader of your team? Because, with his move to Miami, LeBron put that all in doubt without ever having cemented his legacy on his own.

And, what is with the parameters on the Pippen thing? Jordan won his first title and cemented his legacy in 1991. Pippen was not a Dwyane Wade level player in '91 nor was he all that close.

I have believed for years that Wade is the second best player in the NBA. He is phenomenal and he has already led his team to a title... And received a Finals MVP for his trouble.

Wade has cemented his legacy.

Then, throw in arguably the best power forward in the NBA for good measure... All guys either in or entering their primes.

This is what James needed to get a ring? It won't be forgotten. Bet on that.

[nashisbest]

shaq did not win his rings with his 'original' team. do you think he will not make it as HOFer?

people will remember shaq as the dude who got 4 rings and a force during the Lakers years

hell, Nike will turn this thing around in their favour, trust me

[RazorBaLade]

Let's take Shaq out of the equation. Hell, let's even take PAU out of the equation. Guys like Odom and Artest and Bynum still has put up better playoff performances than anyone not named Lebron the past seven years.

this year alone, Odom had a 19/19 game and Artest dropped a 25/5/5. Do you ever recall any Cav outside of Lebron putting up those numbers?

it's not a bash on kobe, it's just to point out how little help Lebron has had, and how ridiculous it is you guys keep bashing him for not having won a ring yet. As I've said many times, this season is really the only one you can blame him.

are u insane? odom had a 19/19 game and has averaged a cool 5 pts since then. All star odom! acting like mo and shaq werent bringing in games better on avg than lamar and ron..

[Kurosawa0]

Your argument is that rosters never matter, nor does proving that you can win a title as the clear-cut No. 1, best player, and leader of your team? Because, with his move to Miami, LeBron put that all in doubt without ever having cemented his legacy on his own.

And, what is with the parameters on the Pippen thing? Jordan won his first title and cemented his legacy in 1991. Pippen was not a Dwyane Wade level player in '91 nor was he all that close.

I have believed for years that Wade is the second best player in the NBA. He is phenomenal and he has already led his team to a title... And received a Finals MVP for his trouble.

Wade has cemented his legacy.

Then, throw in arguably the best power forward in the NBA for good measure... All guys either in or entering their primes.

This is what James needed to get a ring? It won't be forgotten. Bet on that.

No, but it may be what he need to form a dynasty. I mean, out of all the dynasties in NBA history, all of them had comparable talent to what Miami has. In 20 years, when the emotion is gone, people will remember the winning more, hypothetically anyway.

Pippen may not have been the scorer that Wade is, but he was arguably the greatest perimeter defender in history.

I think we could all see that LeBron was something pretty special with his two MVP wins and carrying the 2007 team to the Finals. You could honestly argue the guy was already one of the top 15-25 players ever anyway. I'm not sure you could with Wade.

[RedBlackAttack]

shaq did not win his rings with his 'original' team. do you think he will not make it as HOFer?

people will remember shaq as the dude who got 4 rings and a force during the Lakers years

hell, Nike will turn this thing around in their favour, trust me
That is probably one of the reasons why the general sentiment is KAJ>Shaq.

But, Shaq is a completely different case, because he won a title as the clear-cut No. 1... Three of them, in fact. Kobe was a good player, but please do not compare Bryant circa-2000 to current Dwyane Wade and there was no one on that team to compare to Chris Bosh.

In this current league where superstars are generally scattered throughout the 30 teams, this quasi-all-star team took a shortcut to rings. I'm not sure how that can even be argued against.

Any of the three would be arguably the best players on the majority of the other 29 franchises. That is unheard of... Especially in this day and age.

It is so completely disappointing to me, because I really wanted James to be one of, if not THE greatest of all-time (check out any of my posts regarding him over the last seven years for proof). He just basically threw that out the window and lost the respect of a lot of basketball purists in the process... Myself included.

[TryToBeUnbias]

this is going to be a looooong offseason.

[knightfall88]

No, but it may be what he need to form a dynasty. I mean, out of all the dynasties in NBA history, all of them had comparable talent to what Miami has. In 20 years, when the emotion is gone, people will remember the winning more, hypothetically anyway.

Pippen may not have been the scorer that Wade is, but he was arguably the greatest perimeter defender in history.

I think we could all see that LeBron was something pretty special with his two MVP wins and carrying the 2007 team to the Finals. You could honestly argue the guy was already one of the top 15-25 players ever anyway. I'm not sure you could with Wade.

Wade is the one with one of the greatest finals performance of all time. He revived the Heat franchise and brought a ring to them. He is the one that no matter how many rings lebron wins, wade will have the one more than him. No matter how much Lebron is remembered from this day, Wade will be mentioned before him always.

[jbryan1984]

Oh but he did quit. Coach Brown wanted to foul, Tony Allen and Rondo had just missed their free throws for crying out loud! LeBron waived it off. I was watching with my buddies and we are all like why in the hell are they not fouling? LeBron thinks he runs the team, he knew he was leaving anyway. Watch, he will tell a 3rd year coach like Erik Spoelstra what to do also.

[markymark]

Oh but he did quit. Coach Brown wanted to foul, Tony Allen and Rondo had just missed their free throws for crying out loud! LeBron waived it off. I was watching with my buddies and we are all like why in the hell are they not fouling? LeBron thinks he runs the team, he knew he was leaving anyway. Watch, he will tell a 3rd year coach like Erik Spoelstra what to do also.

Trust me, Pat Riley will be calling the shots.

And you can Dan Gilbert that! (take it to the bank)

[Jacks3]

But, Shaq is a completely different case, because he won a title as the clear-cut No. 1... Three of them, in fact. Kobe was a good player, but please do not compare Bryant circa-2000 to current Dwyane Wade and there was no one on that team to compare to Chris Bosh.




:oldlol: 00-02 Kobe was widely considered a top 3-5 player and was the consensus best perimeter player in basketball. lol @ that being merely a good player.

[chopchop20]

Let's take Shaq out of the equation. Hell, let's even take PAU out of the equation. Guys like Odom and Artest and Bynum still has put up better playoff performances than anyone not named Lebron the past seven years.

this year alone, Odom had a 19/19 game and Artest dropped a 25/5/5. Do you ever recall any Cav outside of Lebron putting up those numbers?

it's not a bash on kobe, it's just to point out how little help Lebron has had, and how ridiculous it is you guys keep bashing him for not having won a ring yet. As I've said many times, this season is really the only one you can blame him.

Countless players could play that same card, but you never hear guys that didn't win a ring complaining about what they didn't have in a manner that tries to downplay another player's success. It's cool for fans to debate, but for a player to say something like is really throwing his teammates under the bus.

Which brings to question, why is D Wade throwing LeBron's ex teammates under the bus (you know, the guys that he danced on the sidelines with but still did not call to inform them of his decision)

[zORi]

First off, Jordan didn't do it alone. He was lucky to have Pippen, a player that could've been argued to be one of the top five players in the league. Many forget that Michael actually asked to be traded to New York before the Bulls started winning. To say that if in 1990 Ewing, Michael and Barkley could've all played together they wouldn't have done it is ridiculous.

The difference is that it will mean more for LeBron to win *several* rings in Miami than if he only got one in Cleveland. With the shape that team is in, he might have been lucky to only get one ring or he might not have won one at all.

The difference was, Pippen was drafted (technically, traded) to Chicago. He and MJ didn't grow into their primes together on opposite teams and then decide to team up. MJ was apart of growth, but I agree, he was lucky to have him.

Kobe was also asked to be traded, but neither of them actually left. If MJ actually had been traded to the Knicks, I wouldn't be surprised if Magic would be considered the GOAT.

[BallsOut]

I know it's the "in" thing to rip LeBron right now, but Wade is absolutely right. Anyone that watched the playoffs could see that Kobe had more around him than LeBron did. Kobe's game seven was every bit as bad as LeBron's game five. The difference was that the Lakers had more weapons and didn't depend solely on one guy to do everything for them.

Cleveland's failure was due mostly to poor coaching, both in game and in building a team's chemistry.

Or, if you believe rumors, Delonte West...


I re-watched the whole series recently. The ONLY game that looked suspicious was Game 5, and even there it was mostly the 1st half. I'm with Wade here, LeBron definitely didn't quit. With the exception of the 1st half of Game 5, where he was passive, it's hard to question his effort at any point in the series. People are free to re-watch that series and put LeBron's play and emotional energy under the microscope. Believe me, you won't find anything.

As far as Wade and 'Bron bringing up Kobe's Game 7 goes, I don't blame them. Never while going up against last year's Boston team would they ever find themselves in a competitive game playing as poorly as Kobe did in Game 7. Through 3 qtrs he had 13 points on 5-20 shooting, and LA was down 3!! He shot 6-24 and won a game against the league's 2nd best team. I can see why it would p!ss Wade and LeBron off, who BOTH played better against Boston than Kobe did yet could never even find themselves in a competitive game when they were a little off.

Wrong.

The difference was that Lebron quit. Everyone knows it. You can go watch the tapes again. Lebron normally doesn't jack up long range 2s. If he's actually trying, he'll either take it to the rack to set up a teammate or spot up for 3 if he's feeling it. He SETTLED for way too many of those long range 2s in games 4, 5, and 6 that ended up just clanging of the front of the rim shot after shot. To be fair, I think the entire team quit in game 2 though. Also take a look at his turnovers in those 3 other games as well. Highly uncharacteristic of Lebron to turn the ball over that much meaning he was careless/carefree, more proof of him quitting.

[BallsOut]

Name five players from 1991 to 1998 that were better than Pippen. To pretend that Jordan didn't have one of the all-time greats next to him is laughable.

Shaq didn't win a ring with the team that drafted him and that didn't hurt his legacy. What's hurt Shaq's legacy is what he's done since winning his rings.

If LeBron wins a bunch of rings in Miami, the story will shift from his killing Cleveland to how he had to leave because he didn't have help. After all, that is the real truth.

To pretend that Pippen is equal to Wade AND Bosh is even more laughable. Winning with 2 other superstars in their prime will always be easier than winning with just 1 other.

Quit being a Lebron homer, and open up your eyes to reality.

[King Lebron LBJ]

.

Quit being a Lebron homer, and open up your eyes to reality.

Take your own advice kiddo.

[BallsOut]

Take your own advice kiddo.

I'm not a Lebron homer like you. Pathetic bandwagoner who jumped ship after the Cavs lost to join the Heat bandwagon. Why even watch sports if you just jump on the frontrunners every season?

SMH.

[King Lebron LBJ]

I'm not a Lebron homer like you. Pathetic bandwagoner who jumped ship after the Cavs lost to join the Heat bandwagon. Why even watch sports if you just jump on the frontrunners every season?

SMH.

So being a fan of a player makes me a bandwagoner? please get out of here with that crap.

[jbot]

It's clear he quit.

Also didn't Mo williams get 20 first half points in game 5 or 6 vs Boston-but Lebron had no help from his teammates? OK
he didn't quit? dude was camping out at the 3pt line and watching the plays go on. didn't help rebound or anything.

[kentatm]

I feel like if Bron was in LA instead of Kobe we would all be hearing about how his teammates sucked and how it wasnt his fault they lost.


Other big time stars don't get that excuse. People say "well they (Dirk, Melo, Nash, etc) should have led them" instead of blaming everyone else on the team.

[BallsOut]

I feel like if Bron was in LA instead of Kobe we would all be hearing about how his teammates sucked and how it wasnt his fault they lost.


Other big time stars don't get that excuse. People say "well they (Dirk, Melo, Nash, etc) should have led them" instead of blaming everyone else on the team.

Exactly. Lebron fans reformulate their arguments to suit their purposes. Lebron has the best teammates in the regular season when they go 60+ wins back 2 back years, but he has the worst teammates in the celtics series when he was the one that quit on his team 4 times out of 6 games? He also had the same amount of good games as Mo Williams did in that series: 2.

[Samurai Swoosh]

But, Shaq is a completely different case, because he won a title as the clear-cut No. 1... Three of them, in fact. Kobe was a good player, but please do not compare Bryant circa-2000 to current Dwyane Wade and there was no one on that team to compare to Chris Bosh.
Dwyane Wade of right now is a top 3 player, perrenial MVP candidate. And while clearly better than 2000 Kobe Bryant ... Kobe Bryant by 2001 was a full fledged superstar and best SG in the game. Kobe put up more than just mere sidekick type numbers on a three peat CHAMPIONSHIP team. Kobe Bryant of the early 2000's as a 21 / 22 / 23 year old is more than comprable to current (prime) Dwyane Wade. Kobe Bryant sacrificing much of his own personal agenda and game in the process of fitting in on a perrenial championship team.

2001 Kobe Bryant

29 PPG (46%) / 6 RPG / 5 APG / 2 SPG

2002 Kobe Bryant

25 PPG (47%) / 6 RPG / 6 APG / 2 SPG

2009 Dwyane Wade

30 PPG (49%) / 5 RPG / 8 APG / 2 SPG

2010 Dwyane Wade

27 PPG (48%) / 5 RPG / 7 APG / 2 SPG

[SSSTRESSS]

It's funny how relative statements like these are to mean something and absolutely nothing at the same time. He is talking about Game 7, against the Celtics in the FINALS after coming out of the Western Conference!

Which by the way, they WON. LOL

How is any of that compared to Lebron's "bad game"? :confusedshrug:

[thejumpa]

Does anyone bring up Shaq not winning titles in Orlando but "chasing them" in LA or "chasing" them in Miami? SMH....winning is winning. Your level of play molds a legacy first. Championships second. Not the other way around. The route there is important, but a lot of players aren't fortunate enough to play with one team their entire career and compete for a ring every year. Some guys stick it out and some guys don't. If they are offered once in a lifetime opportunities, they shouldn't be punished for taking it.

When it's all said and done, only old-fashioned NBA purists(some of them) will bring up LeBron chasing rings. Cavs fans will bring that up. People who don't like LeBron will bring that up. Much like how Kobe got his at age 23 and everyone criticized him for it. Different situations but they both will receive similar hate. You can bet on that.

The real basketball fans will not give a shit. Dude could potentially end up with a better resume than he would have had in Cleveland and chasing rings is what people are going to ***** about? I'd love to see that....

[32jazz]

I feel like if Bron was in LA instead of Kobe we would all be hearing about how his teammates sucked and how it wasnt his fault they lost.


Other big time stars don't get that excuse. People say "well they (Dirk, Melo, Nash, etc) should have led them" instead of blaming everyone else on the team.

Can you imagine the vitriol that they would pour down on D Fish & the guys if Lebron loses with that(Lakers) lineup?

Besides Kobe the Lakers have a COMBINED 2 All star seasons on the ENTIRE roster. Gasol(only 1 before L.A. & KG leaving the West) & Artest(1).

You think they trash Mo Williams/West just imagine what they would unleash on Farmar/Brown/ Fisher.:confusedshrug: Artest would be a 'head case' 'nutjob', 'cancer',etc...... & Odom too inconsistent(which admittedly he is).

Between Odom,ArtesT Gasol(pre L.A.),Fisher, Bynum there is nearly 50 years of Basketball experience & only 2 All star appearances. The excuses for LeBron would be endless.

The Cavs looked like a well oiled machine in '09/'10 postseasons before they ran into the Celtics & Magic. Then came the excuses & scapegoating.

I didn't hear much complaining about that roster(Cavs) UNTIL they lost.

[zORi]

So being a fan of a player makes me a bandwagoner? please get out of here with that crap.

Nah not really, more like a groupie.




I kid, I kid. I have nothing against fans who follow a certain player. I like the Heat, too (although, I liked them before a week ago).

[32jazz]

Does anyone bring up Shaq not winning titles in Orlando but "chasing them" in LA or "chasing" them in Miami? SMH.....

No because at best SHaq only made a lateral move when he went to L.A. from Orlando. He actually left a team that was AS or even MORE talented because he wanted to live in .L.A.

He was traded to a team in Miami that was worse than the one he had in L.A. & didn't drag another All Star with him in a desperate attempt to win.

[Poodle]

LeBron's teammates didn't help him out?

It sounds like he's defending his girlfriend. :oldlol:


no they didn't. its a joke people quote Mo's stats from 2 games acting like Lebron had all of this help but they're retards. watching that series when lebron was neutralized nobody stepped up, or even could.

i don't even want to hear these CLE homers talking how great the team around Lebron was, its just dumb how they reinvent shit.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Does anyone bring up Shaq not winning titles in Orlando but "chasing them" in LA or "chasing" them in Miami?

since you brought it up...

The Lakers were a crappy team, with no real leader, before Shaq got there. That's not ring-chasing, that's just the opposite.

As for Miami, Shaq was no longer a 25-year-old (like Lebron) and had already won 3 championships... while at the same time, Miami had never won anything. correct?

does that clarify?

[32jazz]

since you brought it up...

The Lakers were a crappy team, with no real leader, before Shaq got there. That's not ring-chasing, that's just the opposite.

As for Miami, Shaq was no longer a 25-year-old (like Lebron) and had already won 3 championships... while at the same time, Miami had never won anything. correct?

does that clarify?

Thank you. I wouldn't say the LAkers were 'crappy' before Shaq came ,but they were a young team going nowhere & not as good as what he left in Orlando.

[chopchop20]

The main point is that Wade should not be trashing Cleveland's roster for LeBron. It's totally idiotic

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Thank you. I wouldn't say the LAkers were 'crappy' before Shaq came ,but they were a young team going nowhere & not as good as what he left in Orlando.

true. Eddie Jones was probably their best player. And Vlade Divac.

[The Magic Man]

true. Eddie Jones was probably their best player. And Vlade Divac.

Nick was.

[CLE[216]]

The main point is that Wade should not be trashing Cleveland's roster for LeBron. It's totally idiotic

They're gay for each other. There is no other explanation.

[zORi]

since you brought it up...

The Lakers were a crappy team, with no real leader, before Shaq got there. That's not ring-chasing, that's just the opposite.

As for Miami, Shaq was no longer a 25-year-old (like Lebron) and had already won 3 championships... while at the same time, Miami had never won anything. correct?

does that clarify?

Yeah, very few people remember this, but LA was considerably worse than Orlando before Shaq came.

Shaq was criticized for picking money and fame, as opposed to ring chasing.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Nick was.

wasn't Nick getting kinda old at that point? not playing defense...jacking 3s?

[thejumpa]

No because at best SHaq only made a lateral move when he went to L.A. from Orlando. He actually left a team that was AS or even MORE talented because he wanted to live in .L.A.

He was traded to a team in Miami that was worse than the one he had in L.A. & didn't drag another All Star with him in a desperate attempt to win.

Oh, so it's ok for Shaq to leave a 60-win team in Orlando to a worse team in LA because he wants to live there....but people want to sit up and crucify LeBron for wanting to win championships? I remember when Shaq left for LA. The hate was not nearly as strong as this. Maybe instead of "ring chasing", I should have said "criticized to this degree"

Like I said, if things go as planned for Miami, the only people criticizing will be:

1.Cavs fans
2.LeBron haters
3.Basketball "purists" who still think this is 1991

I'm still scratching my head at people who say "He can never be Jordan now"

[LA KB24]

I swear to god, no one cares if you respect lebron or wade. why do people honestly feel the need to convey that?
Hahahaha seriously.

Btw, what happened to your phoenix account?

[LA KB24]

That is probably one of the reasons why the general sentiment is KAJ>Shaq.

But, Shaq is a completely different case, because he won a title as the clear-cut No. 1... Three of them, in fact. Kobe was a good player, but please do not compare Bryant circa-2000 to current Dwyane Wade and there was no one on that team to compare to Chris Bosh.

In this current league where superstars are generally scattered throughout the 30 teams, this quasi-all-star team took a shortcut to rings. I'm not sure how that can even be argued against.

Any of the three would be arguably the best players on the majority of the other 29 franchises. That is unheard of... Especially in this day and age.

It is so completely disappointing to me, because I really wanted James to be one of, if not THE greatest of all-time (check out any of my posts regarding him over the last seven years for proof). He just basically threw that out the window and lost the respect of a lot of basketball purists in the process... Myself included.
The Lakers would've never gotten out of the WCF without Kobe, in all those three years. Just sayin'

[LA KB24]

Dwyane Wade of right now is a top 3 player, perrenial MVP candidate. And while clearly better than 2000 Kobe Bryant ... Kobe Bryant by 2001 was a full fledged superstar and best SG in the game. Kobe put up more than just mere sidekick type numbers on a three peat CHAMPIONSHIP team. Kobe Bryant of the early 2000's as a 21 / 22 / 23 year old is more than comprable to current (prime) Dwyane Wade. Kobe Bryant sacrificing much of his own personal agenda and game in the process of fitting in on a perrenial championship team.

2001 Kobe Bryant

29 PPG (46%) / 6 RPG / 5 APG / 2 SPG

2002 Kobe Bryant

25 PPG (47%) / 6 RPG / 6 APG / 2 SPG

2009 Dwyane Wade

30 PPG (49%) / 5 RPG / 8 APG / 2 SPG

2010 Dwyane Wade

27 PPG (48%) / 5 RPG / 7 APG / 2 SPG

:pimp:

[32jazz]

Oh, so it's ok for Shaq to leave a 60-win team in Orlando to a worse team in LA because he wants to live there....but people want to sit up and crucify LeBron for wanting to win championships? I remember when Shaq left for LA. The hate was not nearly as strong as this. Maybe instead of "ring chasing", I should have said "criticized to this degree"

Like I said, if things go as planned for Miami, the only people criticizing will be:

1.Cavs fans
2.LeBron haters
3.Basketball "purists" who still think this is 1991

I'm still scratching my head at people who say "He can never be Jordan now"



For one Shaq NEVER left Orlando hanging & let it be known early that he wanted to play in a bigger market/bigger City for personal(liked Big city lifestyle)& career (movie making/rapping) . Orlando called his bluff & REFUSED to trade him & at least get SOMETHING for him & Shaq walked away.

Balls of steel Shaq chose to walk away & rebuild ,AS THE MAN,on a less talented (not significantly as the Lakers were pretty good) team with MAgic/Kareem/Wilt/Mikan/West/Baylor looking over your shoulders.:rockon:

He knew IF he could rebuild in L.A. it would be huge & he took on that challenge.If Shaq failed in L.A. he would have been a JOKE & a laughingstock.

People would have trashed Shaq the same way had he held an hour long "DECISION" special(after stringing along the MAgic) & if he decided to go play with the BUlls(MJ/Pippen/Rodman).

Shaq was criticized for his outside pursuits(rapping/movies), but he didn't take the WEAK way out & go to Chicago,leave the MAgic hanging ,nor did he have a DECISION special.

Big difference between those two.

[The Decision]

"I don't see where you can get where he quit," Wade said. "He just had one bad game. It happens. Kobe had a bad game in the finals. They won. It didn't matter. LeBron's teammates didn't help him out that game and it made the way he played even worse. But he's not a quitter. He didn't quit."


:roll: :roll: :roll: I think wade has change his mind.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Wade couldn't of possibly imagined how big of a poonball Lebron is. THE 2ND BEST SCORER BY PPG IN PLAYOFF HISTORY sporting a cool 19.3 average in the Finals.

Nine Games already folks. This shit is starting to count.

[Jacks3]

Dwyane Wade of right now is a top 3 player, perrenial MVP candidate. And while clearly better than 2000 Kobe Bryant ... Kobe Bryant by 2001 was a full fledged superstar and best SG in the game. Kobe put up more than just mere sidekick type numbers on a three peat CHAMPIONSHIP team. Kobe Bryant of the early 2000's as a 21 / 22 / 23 year old is more than comprable to current (prime) Dwyane Wade. Kobe Bryant sacrificing much of his own personal agenda and game in the process of fitting in on a perrenial championship team.

2001 Kobe Bryant

29 PPG (46%) / 6 RPG / 5 APG / 2 SPG

2002 Kobe Bryant

25 PPG (47%) / 6 RPG / 6 APG / 2 SPG

2009 Dwyane Wade

30 PPG (49%) / 5 RPG / 8 APG / 2 SPG

2010 Dwyane Wade

27 PPG (48%) / 5 RPG / 7 APG / 2 SPG
lol @ dude calling Bryant just a "good" player. :facepalm

[thatoneblackguy]

:roll:

[Crown&Coke]

It's clear he quit.

Also didn't Mo williams get 20 first half points in game 5 or 6 vs Boston-but Lebron had no help from his teammates? OK

that was one game in the close out game. I don't see how they say he quit when he averaged like 35 a game that series.

but he did quit that last game.

[amfirst]

Funny how he said Kobe's team mates won the game.

The game was so physical, it was basically who played less crappy won the game. Not anyone won the game, everybody was playing bad.