Better Defensive team: 2004 Detroit Pistons or 2008 Boston Celtics

[Yung D-Will]

Detroit Pistons

PG: Chauncey Billups/Lindsey Hunter
SG: Richard Hamilton/Mike James
SF: Tayshaun Prince/Corliss Williamson
PF: Rasheed Wallace/Mehmet Okur
C: Ben Wallace/Elden Campbell

-Gave up only 84.3 points per game
-Defensive rating 95.4
- Had 5 straight games where they gave up 70 points or less



Boston Celtics

PG: Rajon Rondo/Eddie House
SG: Ray Allen/ Tony Allen
SF: Paul Pierce/ James Posey
PF :Kevin Garnett/Glen Davis/Leon Powe
C: Kendrick Perkings/PJ Brown

-Gave up only 90.3 points per game
-Defensive rating 98.9
-Remember 04 was the year before the rules changed which countered hand checking and forced the defensive three seconds which made it harder on defensive teams.

[AK47DR91]

Detroit shut down selfish Kobe. Boston shut down matured Kobe.

Celtics will the way!!!! :rockon:

[DuMa]

04 Pistons

[ShaqAttack3234]

'04 Pistons, I've never seen a defensive team quite like them after they got Sheed.

[Batz]

08 celtics.

[matts290]

08 Celtics, as much as a celtic hater as I am, they were nasty on defense. 10 Celtics were nearly as good in my opinion, but they were older and the Lakers brought way more defensive intensity IMO.

[flintstone]

Easy.........the Pistons.

[chains5000]

Pistons IMO.
They were great defensively and then they got Sheed...

[Desperado]

Detroit shut down selfish Kobe. Boston shut down matured Kobe.

Celtics will the way!!!! :rockon:



The 04 Pistons and both the Celtics teams Kobe played in the Finals would have beat any of the teams Jordan played in the Finals.

[PurpleChuck]

The 04 Pistons and both the Celtics teams Kobe played in the Finals would have beat any of the teams Jordan played in the Finals.

Bad Boys Pistons say hi.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The 04 Pistons and both the Celtics teams Kobe played in the Finals would have beat any of the teams Jordan played in the Finals.

The Celts maybe (only the Blazers and Jazz would give them trouble); definitely not the Pistons, however.

[AK47DR91]

The 04 Pistons and both the Celtics teams Kobe played in the Finals would have beat any of the teams Jordan played in the Finals.

Not the '96-'98 years, and it's not because of just Jordan either. Rodman and Pippen.

Not even sure about the '89-'93 Bulls either because Jordan was like a God those years. But two guys would have a hard time beating Pistons and Celtics.

I know Kobe is great but Jordan was a God for like 8-10 years!

[Desperado]

Bad Boys Pistons say hi.

The Celtics and Pistons would would destroy any of those teams. Especially those Utah teams, the Sonics and the Blazers.

[Durant35]

The 04 Pistons and both the Celtics teams Kobe played in the Finals would have beat any of the teams Jordan played in the Finals.

F*ck you Kobe N*thugger. I hope you burn in hell. Jordan played against some of the best defensive teams in NBA History.

Jordan would average more than 36 ppg in today's NBA.

35 yrs.old Jordan >>>>>>>>>> 32 yrs.old Kobe

[Desperado]

F*ck you Kobe N*thugger. I hope you burn in hell. Jordan played against some of the best defensive teams in NBA History.

Jordan would average more than 36 ppg in today's NBA.

35 yrs.old Jordan >>>>>>>>>> 32 yrs.old Kobe


:oldlol:


Damn calm down Lebron23.

[john_d]

kobe and jordan in a thread together really is a bad mix.

[whoartthou]

detroit pistons of 2004 are probably top 3 defensive teams of all time (mix in the new york knicks of the 90s, and the bad boy pistons.) So the 2004 pistons are definately > celts 2008. But the 2008 celtics team was great.

[Durant35]

2004 Pistons were the better defensive team. Kobe had a better overall productions againts the 08 Celtics.

[AK47DR91]

kobe and jordan in a thread together really is a bad mix.

Nobody mentioned Jordan at all until a Kobe fan showed up and had to put Jordan into the mix...Typical Kobe stan routine.

I only mentioned Kobe b/c he actually faced both teams.

[PHILA]

'04 Pistons, I've never seen a defensive team quite like them after they got Sheed.

Indeed. :applause:

http://i30.tinypic.com/23wsgur.jpg

[Snoop_Cat]

Easily the Pistons, better team AND individual defenders

[Desperado]

Bad Boys Pistons say hi.

:oldlol: @ people talking about the bad boy Pistons.


The same team that whooped Jordan 3 years in a row and sent him home fishing.

Whats you point? It took 4 attempts for Jordan to finally get past the Pistons in the playoffs, but people always give Kobe a hard time for going down to the Celtics once? What kind of sh*t is that?


There were bruiser teams playing back then, but there is a reason why Jordan was able to average 30+ a season like it was nothing while shooting well under 100 attempts from downtown. He could get by off of sheer athleticism, that sh*t will NOT fly in today's game.



You put a player like J.R smith and put him in the 80's and he would be in the hall of fame right now. :oldlol:

[Calabis]

2004 Pistons, they are the ones that got the defensive rules changed for the 2004-05 season. Go ask Mark Cuban

[Calabis]

The 04 Pistons and both the Celtics teams Kobe played in the Finals would have beat any of the teams Jordan played in the Finals.

And Kobe showed his true colors against a good Jordan style defense, 38%, 41% and 40% shooting, also most missed shots in finals history:bowdown:

[Calabis]

:oldlol: @ people talking about the bad boy Pistons.


The same team that whooped Jordan 3 years in a row and sent him home fishing.

Whats you point? It took 4 attempts for Jordan to finally get past the Pistons in the playoffs, but people always give Kobe a hard time for going down to the Celtics once? What kind of sh*t is that?


There were bruiser teams playing back then, but there is a reason why Jordan was able to average 30+ a season like it was nothing while shooting well under 100 attempts from downtown. He could get by off of sheer athleticism, that sh*t will NOT fly in today's game.



You put a player like J.R smith and put him in the 80's and he would be in the hall of fame right now. :oldlol:

:facepalm

2004 rule changes enough said

[Apocalyptic0n3]

I realize we are doing championship teams, but the 05 Pistons were better defensively than the 04 team (Sheed playing with us for a full season definitely helped us). I would take both the 05 Pistons and the 05 Spurs over the 08 Celtics, though. That Finals was one of the greatest defensive matchups ever and may never be surpassed.

[wang4three]

Pistons. Outside of an outstanding starting 5 defensively, they had great ball pressure players in James and Hunter.

[Quickz]

I'll go with the Piston's, they where a scary bunch on defense...FEAR THE FRO haha as shitty as Ben Wallace was on Offense boy did he make up for it on defense. I take his D over KG's any day....Same with Sheed over perkins, and Prince over peirce and Allen combined. Plus Billups was such a good leader for them on both ends.

[ShaqAttack3234]

In Sheed's 21 starts in the '04 regular season, the Pistons allowed an average of just 76.8 ppg and they were 17-4 in those games. They held opponents under 70 points in 5 consecutive games in that stretch and under 80 points in 8 consecutive games during that same stretch. In those 21 games, an opponents high was 94(the only time an opponent scored over 90 vs Detroit in those 21 games Sheed started). They held Indiana to just 61 points one game and in 8 out of those 21 games, they held their opponent under 70 points. In a playoff game, they held the Nets to just 56 points.

That's incredible, it's the first time I looked up the numbers, but even before that I was sure they were the best defensive team I've ever seen. And they were a true team at both ends. Everyone knew their roles and they're the only championship team in the last 2, maybe 3 decades with no clear best player which was the beauty of that team, though to me, Big Ben was their MVP.

I'll admit, I hated them at the time! I root for the Knicks and Nets and with the Marbury/Houston combo being a let down in the first round, I was rooting for the Nets again, yet Detroit beat them in a devastating series, they beat the Pacers and I was a Jermaine O'Neal fan and of course, they beat the Lakers and Shaq was my favorite player.

But looking back on them, that has to be one of my favorite teams now, along with the 2002 Kings who I also rooted against, but ran the most gorgeous offense I've ever seen.

[Quickz]

In Sheed's 21 starts in the '04 regular season, the Pistons allowed an average of just 76.8 ppg and they were 17-4 in those games. They held opponents under 70 points in 5 consecutive games in that stretch and under 80 points in 8 consecutive games during that same stretch. In those 21 games, an opponents high was 94(the only time an opponent scored over 90 vs Detroit in those 21 games Sheed started). They held Indiana to just 61 points one game and in 8 out of those 21 games, they held their opponent under 70 points. In a playoff game, they held the Nets to just 56 points.

That's incredible, it's the first time I looked up the numbers, but even before that I was sure they were the best defensive team I've ever seen. And they were a true team at both ends. Everyone knew their roles and they're the only championship team in the last 2, maybe 3 decades with no clear best player which was the beauty of that team, though to me, Big Ben was their MVP.

I'll admit, I hated them at the time! I root for the Knicks and Nets and with the Marbury/Houston combo being a let down in the first round, I was rooting for the Nets again, yet Detroit beat them in a devastating series, they beat the Pacers and I was a Jermaine O'Neal fan and of course, they beat the Lakers and Shaq was my favorite player.

But looking back on them, that has to be one of my favorite teams now, along with the 2002 Kings who I also rooted against, but ran the most gorgeous offense I've ever seen.

:bowdown:

Very rare when a team like the 2004 pistons come along hate em or love em, such a complete team.

[GOBB]

I never really liked the Detroit team. Didnt hate them but they didnt have anyone to pull me in. That said they were the better defensive team in 04. Operation Lockdown.

[boozehound]

I think a good argument can be made for either squad. I also think that the spurs need to be mentioned. However, the league changed the rules of defense as a result of the 04 pistons.

[boozehound]

:oldlol: @ people talking about the bad boy Pistons.


The same team that whooped Jordan 3 years in a row and sent him home fishing.

Whats you point? It took 4 attempts for Jordan to finally get past the Pistons in the playoffs, but people always give Kobe a hard time for going down to the Celtics once? What kind of sh*t is that?


There were bruiser teams playing back then, but there is a reason why Jordan was able to average 30+ a season like it was nothing while shooting well under 100 attempts from downtown. He could get by off of sheer athleticism, that sh*t will NOT fly in today's game.



You put a player like J.R smith and put him in the 80's and he would be in the hall of fame right now. :oldlol:
and posts like this is why lakers fans get a bad rap on this forum. SO much ridiculous nonsense is posted by fools with laker's avys. I feel bad for the decent fans of the team, but damn, what a bunch of fools.

[Calabis]

:oldlol: @ people talking about the bad boy Pistons.


The same team that whooped Jordan 3 years in a row and sent him home fishing.

Whats you point? It took 4 attempts for Jordan to finally get past the Pistons in the playoffs, but people always give Kobe a hard time for going down to the Celtics once? What kind of sh*t is that?


There were bruiser teams playing back then, but there is a reason why Jordan was able to average 30+ a season like it was nothing while shooting well under 100 attempts from downtown. He could get by off of sheer athleticism, that sh*t will NOT fly in today's game.



You put a player like J.R smith and put him in the 80's and he would be in the hall of fame right now. :oldlol:

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/111/111152/pages/256537/TrollBGon.gif

[Pointguard]

Celts

The Pistons were amazing in defeating the Lakers that year. The Lake show had no answers with two potent weapons and a super experienced team.

But the Pistons were lucky to get there. They would have lost to the Nets (hobbled Kidd and Martain still took them to 7) and Pacers (Tinsley and O'neal) if key injuries didn't strike both teams.

No team escaped the Celts rapture in 08. The West was thought to be a better conference and everybody was in a tight race. Yet all of them lost a key game down the stretch to Boston on their homecourt.

[King Lebron LBJ]

Pistons. Best defensive team in the last 5-7 years.

[Apocalyptic0n3]

Indeed. :applause:

http://i30.tinypic.com/23wsgur.jpg

That image with "We beat you" on it would be great for the Laker haters. lol

[hoopaddict08]

Celts

The Pistons were amazing in defeating the Lakers that year. The Lake show had no answers with two potent weapons and a super experienced team.

But the Pistons were lucky to get there. They would have lost to the Nets (hobbled Kidd and Martain still took them to 7) and Pacers (Tinsley and O'neal) if key injuries didn't strike both teams.

No team escaped the Celts rapture in 08. The West was thought to be a better conference and everybody was in a tight race. Yet all of them lost a key game down the stretch to Boston on their homecourt.

I don't see how any of that explains why Bostons defense was better. This isn't "who was the better champion thread". Detroit after acquiring Rasheed was the better defensive team. The numbers back that up, and have already shared.

[Disaprine]

In Sheed's 21 starts in the '04 regular season, the Pistons allowed an average of just 76.8 ppg and they were 17-4 in those games. They held opponents under 70 points in 5 consecutive games in that stretch and under 80 points in 8 consecutive games during that same stretch. In those 21 games, an opponents high was 94(the only time an opponent scored over 90 vs Detroit in those 21 games Sheed started). They held Indiana to just 61 points one game and in 8 out of those 21 games, they held their opponent under 70 points. In a playoff game, they held the Nets to just 56 points.

That's incredible, it's the first time I looked up the numbers, but even before that I was sure they were the best defensive team I've ever seen. And they were a true team at both ends. Everyone knew their roles and they're the only championship team in the last 2, maybe 3 decades with no clear best player which was the beauty of that team, though to me, Big Ben was their MVP.

I'll admit, I hated them at the time! I root for the Knicks and Nets and with the Marbury/Houston combo being a let down in the first round, I was rooting for the Nets again, yet Detroit beat them in a devastating series, they beat the Pacers and I was a Jermaine O'Neal fan and of course, they beat the Lakers and Shaq was my favorite player.

But looking back on them, that has to be one of my favorite teams now, along with the 2002 Kings who I also rooted against, but ran the most gorgeous offense I've ever seen.
that pistons team was amazing.

[embersyc]

I realize we are doing championship teams, but the 05 Pistons were better defensively than the 04 team (Sheed playing with us for a full season definitely helped us). I would take both the 05 Pistons and the 05 Spurs over the 08 Celtics, though. That Finals was one of the greatest defensive matchups ever and may never be surpassed.

No way, 04 Pistons had Mike James and Lindsey Hunter terrorizing the other team's point guards and causing turnovers left and right. Only teams with elite point guards stood a chance against that combo.

After Mike James left the team was never the same. Also the rule changes hurt them majorly.

[Mr. Jabbar]

The real question is 2008 C's vs 2010 C's. /Thread

[dealer77]

Pistons. Best defensive team in the last 5-7 years.

The Pistons defense that year was legendary. Easily the best defense of the last 5-7 years, and one of the best all time. The only defense I can compare it to would be the Baltimore Ravens team of 2000-01. Different sport, but equal dominance :rockon:

[hoopaddict08]

The real question is 2008 C's vs 2010 C's. /Thread

Um...no.

09/2010 Celtics aren't even close to the 08 Celtics or 04 Pistons. Kevin Garnett was a shell of his former self almost all season. Although they picked it up in the playoffs, the defense wasn't the same as it was in 2008.

[LA KB24]

and posts like this is why lakers fans get a bad rap on this forum. SO much ridiculous nonsense is posted by fools with laker's avys. I feel bad for the decent fans of the team, but damn, what a bunch of fools. i'm pretty sure he's just trolling.

no way he's seriously be THAT stupid.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Better defensive team? 2004 Pistons

Better team overall? 2008 Celtics

[dd24]

The 04 Pistons were definitely better.

[AirJordan23]

I think some of you guys are greatly understating the impact rule changes had on the Pistons defense. That point actually goes in Boston's favor. Detroit pretty much had the same roster and coach in '05 that they did in '04 yet their defense wasn't close to being the same. They lost Mike James who was instrumental to their halfcourt trapping scheme but added McDyes (solid vet big with good D) and Arroyo. So, overall, the roster was mostly the same. But, their defense suffered. Couldn't be as physical or body their opponents up. Guards had the ball in their hands a lot more and had a easier time getting to the lane. Look at their DRtg in '04 (95.4) and in '05 (101.2). That's a vast difference and it was evident in the playoffs when they got lit up by several stars. Iverson put up 31/10 on 47% shooting on them in the first round, DWade was ripping that D to shreds before he got injured and Manu torched them as well although that had something to do with the attention Duncan drew.

We can only speculate how good the Celtics would be with the '04 rules. Y'all remember the '04 Pistons/Pacers ECF? One of the most physical, brutal and intense series I've seen. Games were ugly, low scoring and defensive slugfests. So, comparing these two defenses, you've to take into account the time period they played in. And it's closer than what most of you guys are implying.

Anyway, I'd pick the '04 Pistons because they were truly a terror after they acquired Sheed. Had that 5 game streak where they held their opponents to within 70 pts. Had Larry Brown as the coach who is known for basic man principles and pays heavy emphasis to defense. Their defense had no holes as far as perimeter, post, transition, pick and roll defense goes. Mobile, athletic bigs that can guard the paint and be shot blocking threats. Chauncey who could body up guards. Tay, a versatile defender who could effectively guard guys like TMac, VC etc. Rip who could chase guys off screens. Their bench also had some crafty defensive players. Team had damn good defense. Boston had good defense too. I was glad KG got the recognition with the DPOY he got. Truly deserved it.

[dd24]

. So, overall, the roster was mostly the same. But, their defense suffered. Couldn't be as physical or body their opponents up. Guards had the ball in their hands a lot more and had a easier time getting to the lane. Look at their DRtg in '04 (95.4) and in '05 (101.2). That's a vast difference and it was evident in the playoffs when they got lit up by several stars. Iverson put up 31/10 on 47% shooting on them in the first round, DWade was ripping that D to shreds before he got injured and Manu torched them as well although that had something to do with the attention Duncan drew.


Losing Okur was probably the difference between winning and losing that title. So the team was far different. The 04 Pistons had way more depth with him and James, who were better than the guys that replaced them.

[AirJordan23]

Losing Okur was probably the difference between winning and losing that title. So the team was far different. The 04 Pistons had way more depth with him and James, who were better than the guys that replaced them.
I don't think you understood my point. I was strictly comparing their defense, not the overall team. The addition of McDyess more than compensated for Okur's departure from a defensive standpoint. Dice was known for playing hard, giving effort on defense and rebounding well. On the other hand, Okur was never much of a shot blocker or an intimidating presence in the paint. He was a good man defender, good at holding position and solid at denying deep post position but I wouldn't say he was a better defender than Dice. Not sure how Detroit's defense gets worse from losing Okur. Like I said, losing Mike James hurt a bit but he was never a guy who played a vast amount of minutes and losing one player is not a good enough justification for a drastic change in your defense. The rule changes had a lot to do with it and that's the truth. And I would say Sheed leaving Horry open in game 5 had a lot to do with Detroit losing. That was a definition of a boneheaded play. Not sure why he felt the need to double. Horry was on fire in the 4th and OT. Had like 21 pts.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

2008 Celtics.

[tpols]

2004 pistons by a good amount...

They not only had better individual defenders, but they also had a better coach, a better scheme, and a better overall team defense.

[DetroitPiston]

04 Pistons numbers should back us up. I had the privilege of being able to go to most of the 04 games and my goodness it was something else. Ben Wallace, as atrocious as he is on offense was a monster on defense at his best. For someone who is 6'7 by his own admittance especially.

Pity Stern doesn't seem to appreciate defense but oh well.

Plus, you have to respect this, Tayshaun doesn't pull it off, we're screwed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGYXuD1lwwk

[boozehound]

I think some of you guys are greatly understating the impact rule changes had on the Pistons defense. That point actually goes in Boston's favor. Detroit pretty much had the same roster and coach in '05 that they did in '04 yet their defense wasn't close to being the same. They lost Mike James who was instrumental to their halfcourt trapping scheme but added McDyes (solid vet big with good D) and Arroyo. So, overall, the roster was mostly the same. But, their defense suffered. Couldn't be as physical or body their opponents up. Guards had the ball in their hands a lot more and had a easier time getting to the lane. Look at their DRtg in '04 (95.4) and in '05 (101.2). That's a vast difference and it was evident in the playoffs when they got lit up by several stars. Iverson put up 31/10 on 47% shooting on them in the first round, DWade was ripping that D to shreds before he got injured and Manu torched them as well although that had something to do with the attention Duncan drew.

We can only speculate how good the Celtics would be with the '04 rules. Y'all remember the '04 Pistons/Pacers ECF? One of the most physical, brutal and intense series I've seen. Games were ugly, low scoring and defensive slugfests. So, comparing these two defenses, you've to take into account the time period they played in. And it's closer than what most of you guys are implying.

Anyway, I'd pick the '04 Pistons because they were truly a terror after they acquired Sheed. Had that 5 game streak where they held their opponents to within 70 pts. Had Larry Brown as the coach who is known for basic man principles and pays heavy emphasis to defense. Their defense had no holes as far as perimeter, post, transition, pick and roll defense goes. Mobile, athletic bigs that can guard the paint and be shot blocking threats. Chauncey who could body up guards. Tay, a versatile defender who could effectively guard guys like TMac, VC etc. Rip who could chase guys off screens. Their bench also had some crafty defensive players. Team had damn good defense. Boston had good defense too. I was glad KG got the recognition with the DPOY he got. Truly deserved it.
so, the lost mike james, memo and corliss (their entire bench - one of whom started most of the season), yet their roster was the same? GTFO

[AirJordan23]

so, the lost mike james, memo and corliss (their entire bench - one of whom started most of the season), yet their roster was the same? GTFO

Reading comprehension is your friend. I was comparing them from a defensive perspective, not the overall teams. Like I said before, the addition of McDyess who at worst was as good of a defender as Memo shouldn't hurt your defense. I already said losing Mike James hurt your defense a bit but it shouldn't have had a drastic impact like it showed in the DRtg. Williamson was a good defensive player. Hardworker, had lateral quickness and all that but you guys still had Tayshaun playing a good amount of minutes at the three so your defense shouldn't suffer that much. The rule changes had a lot to do with it and that's the truth. You can look at the Spurs defense for instance. They tweaked their roster just a bit from '04 to '05 but they saw a vast decrease in their DRtg (94.1 to 98.8). Overall defense suffered for most teams. It's the truth.

[boozehound]

sure, the rule changed played a role. and why did they change the rule? even if you "adjust" the celts defensive # to pre-rule change, they arent as good as the 04 squad (the #s, not necc the actual D. As I have said, I think the point is endlessly moot).

Corliss played a big part on that team. and the reserve guard mentality was never the same as the bulldogs.

[AirJordan23]

sure, the rule changed played a role. and why did they change the rule? even if you "adjust" the celts defensive # to pre-rule change, they arent as good as the 04 squad (the #s, not necc the actual D. As I have said, I think the point is endlessly moot).

Corliss played a big part on that team. and the reserve guard mentality was never the same as the bulldogs.

Well, I did pick the '04 Pistons. Just wanted to say that it's closer than what most people think. The rule changes had a lot to do with people wanting higher scoring games than defensive slugfests which was evident in the '04 playoffs. They wanted to call perimeter contact far more often which is why guys like Kobe, AI, Wade, Pierce, LeBron saw career highs in FTA circa 2005. All forms of handchecking were taken away and you couldn't body or bump your man any more. That's why you see all these guys get to the paint with ease. Cuban was also b*tching about the rule changes after Wade ran over his team in the finals. Also had something to do from a marketing standpoint.

[boozehound]

Well, I did pick the '04 Pistons. Just wanted to say that it's closer than what most people think. The rule changes had a lot to do with people wanting higher scoring games than defensive slugfests which was evident in the '04 playoffs. They wanted to call perimeter contact far more often which is why guys like Kobe, AI, Wade, Pierce, LeBron saw career highs in FTA circa 2005. All forms of handchecking were taken away and you couldn't body or bump your man any more. That's why you see all these guys get to the paint with ease. Cuban was also b*tching about the rule changes after Wade ran over his team in the finals. Also had something to do from a marketing standpoint.
dont forget the Defensive 3 second and relaxed zone rules.

[Yung D-Will]

boomz

[boozehound]

I think some of you guys are greatly understating the impact rule changes had on the Pistons defense. That point actually goes in Boston's favor. Detroit pretty much had the same roster and coach in '05 that they did in '04 yet their defense wasn't close to being the same. They lost Mike James who was instrumental to their halfcourt trapping scheme but added McDyes (solid vet big with good D) and Arroyo. So, overall, the roster was mostly the same. But, their defense suffered. Couldn't be as physical or body their opponents up. Guards had the ball in their hands a lot more and had a easier time getting to the lane. Look at their DRtg in '04 (95.4) and in '05 (101.2). That's a vast difference and it was evident in the playoffs when they got lit up by several stars. Iverson put up 31/10 on 47% shooting on them in the first round, DWade was ripping that D to shreds before he got injured and Manu torched them as well although that had something to do with the attention Duncan drew.

We can only speculate how good the Celtics would be with the '04 rules. Y'all remember the '04 Pistons/Pacers ECF? One of the most physical, brutal and intense series I've seen. Games were ugly, low scoring and defensive slugfests. So, comparing these two defenses, you've to take into account the time period they played in. And it's closer than what most of you guys are implying.

Anyway, I'd pick the '04 Pistons because they were truly a terror after they acquired Sheed. Had that 5 game streak where they held their opponents to within 70 pts. Had Larry Brown as the coach who is known for basic man principles and pays heavy emphasis to defense. Their defense had no holes as far as perimeter, post, transition, pick and roll defense goes. Mobile, athletic bigs that can guard the paint and be shot blocking threats. Chauncey who could body up guards. Tay, a versatile defender who could effectively guard guys like TMac, VC etc. Rip who could chase guys off screens. Their bench also had some crafty defensive players. Team had damn good defense. Boston had good defense too. I was glad KG got the recognition with the DPOY he got. Truly deserved it.
SMH at you acting like arroyo = james. james may have sucked once he thought his role was as a scorer rather than pitbull defender, but arroyo was terrible for the pistons. so, they lost their backup combo guard, their first big off the bench and corliss williamson, but the roster was the same? also, didnt they set the record for teams held under 70pts (at least consecutively if not for the entire season)?

If it werent for LB's wandering eyes distracting him from actually focusing on his job and the one sheed bonehead play (whether it was him or the coaching staff - even bill simmons acknowledges its the dumbest play that significantly impacted a finals series), it may have been a repeat.

as Ive said in this thread (or one of the million others based on the same premise) a good case can be made for either squad and its stupid to split hairs. Why is everyone obsessed with ranking on this site?

Both teams played hard!

[TheLogo]

'04 Pistons

[Yung D-Will]

It really wasn't a ranking thread? Just wondering what was the best defensive team of the decade.

[boozehound]

It really wasn't a ranking thread? Just wondering what was the best defensive team of the decade.
I guess thats true. Im biased, but I think its an unresolvable debate (which doesnt necessarily mean that we shouldnt have it). Also, KG is a grade A Dbag who has a weak post game based on fallaways and weaksauce. Interesting take by bill simmons in his book on what depending on the fallaway/turnaround says about a player.

I.e. KG=/clutch. PP=clutch.

[Yung D-Will]

I guess thats true. Im biased, but I think its an unresolvable debate (which doesnt necessarily mean that we shouldnt have it). Also, KG is a grade A Dbag who has a weak post game based on fallaways and weaksauce. Interesting take by bill simmons in his book on what depending on the fallaway/turnaround says about a player.

I.e. KG=/clutch. PP=clutch.
Have any quotes?

[praneel]

Easy.........the Pistons.

Way too easy.

That Pistons team won games with their defense. He only scored 88 or so points a game, less most times.

No disrespect to that 08 Celtics, they were great too.

But its like comparing the 85 Bears to the 2000 Ravens.

Both devastating, but the Bears are iconic when talking about defense. Same thing with that Larry Brown led Pistons.

[praneel]

You put a player like J.R smith and put him in the 80's and he would be in the hall of fame right now. :oldlol:

No Way!

A guy like Oakley or Mason would send him home crying to his momma before the end of training camp, or leave him in the back alley left to die. If your own teammates would kill you, what do you think an opposing player would do to a chump like J.R.

[amfirst]

both 2008 and 2010 celtics were better...

[Real Men Wear Green]

Pistons were a little better on D. What decides it for me is that their offense really wasn't that good; Ben Wallace was a negative and they had no scoring superstars and yet still they crushed a Shaq/Kobe Laker squad. Maybe that series is different if Malone stays healthy but still, that's impressive. The Cs played great D of course but Pierce, Allen and KG could still light you up when they had to. It's hard to gauge the exact effect of a rule change but it can't be denied that Detroit had better defensive stats and was defined by their D. Cs had a renowned defense but the team had those three stars that made their offense much more potent when it had to be.

But if it's a question of which team was better overall, I'd give a different answer.

[dgnr8]

2008 C's .. :rockon:

[Ikill]

pistons