Kobe Bryant:

[john_d]

[QUOTE]However, what was unusual

[detotronix]

I've been saying this for years. The European system teaches fundamentals. Americas are trying shit that is beyond their means and abilities. Instead of learning the fundamentals first they try and emulate what they see on tv without having a grasp on the basics.

[ashbelly]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: I would like to have some of that sherm mr beans is smoking. what a douchebag... He didnt hear what Yao ming was telling his country ??? :roll: :roll: ..


. aau >>>>>>>

[ZenMaster]

It's no joke that since the Bird era, most of the best white players are from Europe with Steve Nash being the exception.

[lakerspng]

Fundamentals > highlights

and I believe that's what he means. Kids in the US focus on using their athleticism and making highlight reels. Players in Europe focus on working on their fundamental basketball skills.

The emphasis is on the game, not the player.

I don't know if that's completely the case in Europe, but unfortunately, it is the case with the US. We have a ton of incredibly gifted athletes that lack the most basic fundamentals and therefore, their games never really blossom and they hit barriers/walls that they can never break through.

[john_d]

jump higher, run faster is really what these new nba players are all about.

[ashbelly]

Fundamentals > highlights

and I believe that's what he means. Kids in the US focus on using their athleticism and making highlight reels. Players in Europe focus on working on their fundamental basketball skills.

The emphasis is on the game, not the player.

I don't know if that's completely the case in Europe, but unfortunately, it is the case with the US. We have a ton of incredibly gifted athletes that lack the most basic fundamentals and therefore, their games never really blossom and they hit barriers/walls that they can never break through.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[ashbelly]

jump higher, run faster is really what these new nba players are all about.
US players ball handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any players anywhere.

Derek rose,John wall,rondo,westbrook, >>>>>>>>>>> Ricky rubios of the world.

[Dwade305]

End of the day its all about buckets

[ashbelly]

It's no joke that since the Bird era, most of the best white players are from Europe with Steve Nash being the exception.


why did you have to bring skin color into it ??? USA basketball players >>>>>

If you can't acknowledge that, then you and mr. beans are delusional.

[EarlTheGoat]

why did you have to bring skin color into it ??? USA basketball players >>>>>

If you can't acknowledge that, then you and mr. beans are delusional.


STFU trying to school everybody, you`re just an annoying bandwagoner.

[Batz]

Then explain why no international player, excluding Canadians and Kobe, cannot dominate the game of basketball? Why isn't their a international superstar around here? Where's German Lebron!?

[JtotheIzzo]

the club system is better in my opinion.

imagine if the Lakers had different youth teams and teenagers had pro level training and facilities from high school onward. the kids would develop so much and learn so much from having access to professionals.

personality wise, there'd be less giant egos than we see now, as instead of a kid being the shit all through their career, he'd need to be respectful of the pros at the NBA level of his club. think of all the talented head cases who shit their talent away because of a horrible attitude. would Stephon Marbury be as cocky if instead of balling for Lincoln High, he was on The Knicks youth team? Oak and Mase would have slapped the shit out of him if some youth team punk got out of order.

European soccer teams do this, it'd be really cool if the NBA did too.

I know it will never happen as it is 'elitist' and the NCAA and HS hoops are hallowed institutions, but it is really cool to think 'what if.'

The Australian model of 'sports centers' would also be cool to have and produce better players. Look how a relatively small country like Australia performs in the Olympics. Their great results are due to their centralized sporting system, where the top athletes all go to school together.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Of course it is. And Kobe knows that personally because he was developed in Italy in one of their youth club systems. It's one of the main reasons why his skills level if so much better than other NBA players, even though he never played in the NCAA.

[AJ2k8]

It's a pity the NBA caters for the way the American players are being developed...

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Then explain why no international player, excluding Canadians and Kobe, cannot dominate the game of basketball? Why isn't their a international superstar around here? Where's German Lebron!?


Since prime Shaq no American player dominated the NBA, nor came even remotely close to doing so. And everyone knows that prime Shaq was allowed to commit an offensive foul every time he got the ball by the NBA refs, something that would not be allowed in European basketball.

[lakerspng]

Then explain why no international player, excluding Canadians and Kobe, cannot dominate the game of basketball? Why isn't their a international superstar around here? Where's German Lebron!?

Dirk, Pau, they may not have the athleticism of Lebron, but their games are more refined and they are top 10 players in the league.

There's no denying that the best players in the league (top 5) are Americans. but you're average player growing up in Europe vs your average player growing up in the US, might be a different story, just in terms of the skills they are learning and focusing on.

[ashbelly]

the club system is better in my opinion.

imagine if the Lakers had different youth teams and teenagers had pro level training and facilities from high school onward. the kids would develop so much and learn so much from having access to professionals.

personality wise, there'd be less giant egos than we see now, as instead of a kid being the shit all through their career, he'd need to be respectful of the pros at the NBA level of his club. think of all the talented head cases who shit their talent away because of a horrible attitude. would Stephon Marbury be as cocky if instead of balling for Lincoln High, he was on The Knicks youth team? Oak and Mase would have slapped the shit out of him if some youth team punk got out of order.

European soccer teams do this, it'd be really cool if the NBA did too.

I know it will never happen as it is 'elitist' and the NCAA and HS hoops are hallowed institutions, but it is really cool to think 'what if.'

The Australian model of 'sports centers' would also be cool to have and produce better players. Look how a relatively small country like Australia performs in the Olympics. Their great results are due to their centralized sporting system, where the top athletes all go to school together.


AAU tramps all those systems bro.. It has been producing superstars for decades.. :rolleyes: I'm i missing something here ?? Not everything that is foreign is good for you... :no:

[OnceInADECADE]

oo god kobe sftu


RUBIO WILL BE A BUST


ROSE/SELBY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>RUBIO

[indiefan24]

He didnt hear what Yao ming was telling his country ???


well to be clear Yao was commenting on China's developmental system while Kobe was speaking to the European one.

[ashbelly]

Since prime Shaq no American played dominated the NBA, nor came even remotely close to doing so. And everyone knows that prime Shaq was allowed to commit and offensive foul every time he got the ball by the NBA refs, something that would not be allowed in European basketball.

You are saying this like everybody wants to play in the ruopean leagues. There is a reason why NBA is the Most dominant league in the world. :rolleyes:

[JtotheIzzo]

AAU tramps all those systems bro.. It has been producing superstars for decades.. :rolleyes: I'm i missing something here ?? Not everything that is foreign is good for you... :no:

if the US adopted this system, with its superior players it would be crazy. for the record, I am not a supporter or European hoops, but I do see the advantage of the club system, especially on the youth players, they learn so much from having access to the pros, and their methods and training.

AAU is chaperoned pick up ball a lot of the time.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

You are saying this like everybody wants to play in the ruopean leagues. There is a reason why NBA is the Most dominant league in the world. :rolleyes:


Yeah and when they lose again this year in the world championship you will pretend it never happened, just like in 2002, 2004, and 2006.

[Batz]

Of course it is. And Kobe knows that personally because he was developed in Italy in one of their youth club systems. It's one of the main reasons why his skills level if so much better than other NBA players, even though he never played in the NCAA.
The italians system which Kobe took part in around the ages of 10-13 is why he's one of the most dominant player today? The work ethic he adapted from his father, his father's teammates, Jordan, Magic and other NBA players didn't have more to do with it? Him staying hours after games and practices shooting and playing one on one with his dad when he was in Italy didn't help either?

Not sayin' the club's system didn't have anything to do with Kobe being such a great player. But I doubt it had more effect on the shit I just said.

Dirk, Pau, they may not have the athleticism of Lebron, but their games are more refined and they are top 10 players in the league.

There's no denying that the best players in the league (top 5) are Americans. but you're average player growing up in Europe vs your average player growing up in the US, might be a different story, just in terms of the skills they are learning and focusing on.
So then the argument is flawed is it not? If the top players in the league are Americans then their system must be better, right?

Since prime Shaq no American player dominated the NBA, nor came even remotely close to doing so. And everyone knows that prime Shaq was allowed to commit an offensive foul every time he got the ball by the NBA refs, something that would not be allowed in European basketball.
Thanks for completely misinterpeting what I meant by dominant. I didn't mean Wilt Chamberlian like dominance. I mean dominance. Lebron 30/8/8 season is dominant. Bryants 35/5/5 season is dominant. Mcgrady's 32/6/7 season is dominant. And they're all American perimeter players. So where are the dominant European perimeter players?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The italians system which Kobe took part in around the ages of 10-13 is why he's one of the most dominant player today? The work ethic he adapted from his father, his teammates, Jordan, Magic and other NBA players didn't have more to do with it? Him staying hours after games and practices shooting and playing one on one with his dad when he was in Italy didn't help either?

Not sayin' the club's system didn't have anything to do with Kobe being such a great player. But I doubt it had more effect on the shit I just said.

Kobe was in the youth club in Italy from age 5 or 6, not age 10.

[ashbelly]

Dirk, Pau, they may not have the athleticism of Lebron, but their games are more refined and they are top 10 players in the league.

There's no denying that the best players in the league (top 5) are Americans. but you're average player growing up in Europe vs your average player growing up in the US, might be a different story, just in terms of the skills they are learning and focusing on.

what do you mean average ??? Darko was a top prospect? what happened ?? Kwame >>> darko, Thats as average as it gets. Apart from the gasol brothers, sabonis and a handful players, this euro players can't hold a candle. The european game is the 80's NBA version. The USA has evolved the game so much to make it an entertainment. It's like Brazil soccer and European soccer, the brazillian soccer is far way more entertaining to watch than euro's soccer.

[lakerspng]

So then the argument is flawed is it not? If the top players in the league are Americans then their system must be better, right?

The top players in the league being Americans is more a testament to their individual genetics, than it is their development as players. Kobe's the only one of the top 5 that isn't a complete genetic freak and he's still above the average athleticism of most elite european players.

And just to be clear, I'm not a huge Euro basketball fan. In fact I'm not at all. I do feel however that they focus on youth basketball in America has gone the wrong direction and players could be much better than they already are, if they spent time working on their fundamental skills from an early age.

[Batz]

Kobe was in the youth club in Italy from age 5 or 6, not age 10.
What a counter-argument... :oldlol:

The top players in the league being Americans is more a testament to their individual genetics, than it is their development as players. Kobe's the only one of the top 5 that isn't a complete genetic freak and he's still above the average athleticism of most elite european players.
Bryant's Father was a freak Athlete. Dominated the italian league was in but was sub-par in the NBA. So right there you're just assuming that the reason the top 5 players are genetically gifted whilst Bryant's parents hold such genetic values but Kobe does not have them.

[JtotheIzzo]

what do you mean average ??? Darko was a top prospect? what happened ?? Kwame >>> darko, Thats as average as it gets. Apart from the gasol brothers, sabonis and a handful players, this euro players can't hold a candle. The european game is the 80's NBA version. The USA has evolved the game so much to make it an entertainment. It's like Brazil soccer and European soccer, the brazillian soccer is far way more entertaining to watch than euro's soccer.

now you are talking completely out your ass.

no one is saying one player is better than the other, not sure why you are so adamantly defending the superior American players.

fact is, HS, AAU, and NCAA route is NOT the best way to develop talent, and your desire to change the focus (from the system to the player) exposes the flaw in your argument.

[ashbelly]

Yeah and when they lose again this year in the world championship you will pretend it never happened, just like in 2002, 2004, and 2006.

This is what you fail to understand though, the USA team this year is a crop of new players, i can bet you a team like Greece will be recycling their old players again. How is this developing their young players ???, say all you want but i'm for the development of new talents, which USA shits on all of them.

[ZenMaster]

why did you have to bring skin color into it ??? USA basketball players >>>>>

If you can't acknowledge that, then you and mr. beans are delusional.

This thread is about the basketball development system, not who has the better players.

Blacks are superiors athletes, the US has more blacks than Europe.

The white players of the US aren't as good as those of Europe. This is because the development system is better. It's not that hard to comprehend.

@ Batz

What are you talking about? The German Lebron is Dirk Nowitzki.

[Hammertime]

It has nothing to do with fundamentals and flash and everything to do with level of play and competition.

European players turn pro at 15-16. American players do it from 19-22. That's 3-4 years of intensive development American players miss out. At 17, if you're a prospect, you should be having practice twice a day, not twice a week. Europeans have a tremendous advantage in that regard.

The other part is that the competition can be pathetic. Andrei Kirilenko was the MVP of a fairly strong Russian league at 18. This means beating out former NBA-players, quality European veterans, other talented youngsters...Who did John Wall play against at 18? Future postmen, accountants, waiters, and Div3 standouts.

It's worst for American big men. Al Jefferson's senior year HS stats look like this: 42.6 PPG, 18 RPG, 7 BPG, and 4 APG. All this while shooting 72%(!!!) from the field. That's ridiculous. How does dominating a bunch of kids like that help development? Then you wonder why Al can't make it rain down from outside like Okur? How could he, when he never had to learn? He just dominated his HS opposition because he was stronger, bigger, and quicker than anyone else. Hell, that's the same reason LeBron still can't shoot worth anything. He never really needed a shot.

As a matter of fact, which American prep-to-pro star came into the league with an outside shot? The guy whose name is in the thread title. That's it.

[Batz]

now you are talking completely out your ass.

no one is saying one player is better than the other, not sure why you are so adamantly defending the superior American players.

fact is, HS, AAU, and NCAA route is NOT the best way to develop talent, and your desire to change the focus (from the system to the player) exposes the flaw in your argument.
NCAA not the best way to develop talent? The best players in the history of the NBA went through the NCAA...

[JtotheIzzo]

It has nothing to do with fundamentals and flash and everything to do with level of play and competition.

European players turn pro at 15-16. American players do it from 19-22. That's 3-4 years of intensive development American players miss out. At 17, if you're a prospect, you should be having practice twice a day, not twice a week. Europeans have a tremendous advantage in that regard.

The other part is that the competition can be pathetic. Andrei Kirilenko was the MVP of a fairly strong Russian league at 18. This means beating out former NBA-players, quality European veterans, other talented youngsters...Who did John Wall play against at 18? Future postmen, accountants, waiters, and Div3 standouts.

It's worst for American big men. Al Jefferson's senior year HS stats look like this: 42.6 PPG, 18 RPG, 7 BPG, and 4 APG. All this while shooting 72%(!!!) from the field. That's ridiculous. How does dominating a bunch of kids like that help development? Then you wonder why Al can't make it rain down from outside like Okur? How could he, when he never had to learn? He just dominated his HS opposition because he was stronger, bigger, and quicker than anyone else. Hell, that's the same reason LeBron still can't shoot worth anything. He never really needed a shot.

As a matter of fact, which American prep-to-pro star came into the league with an outside shot? The guy whose name is in the thread title. That's it.

exactly

[ashbelly]

now you are talking completely out your ass.

no one is saying one player is better than the other, not sure why you are so adamantly defending the superior American players.

fact is, HS, AAU, and NCAA route is NOT the best way to develop talent, and your desire to change the focus (from the system to the player) exposes the flaw in your argument.

The euro system is not better than AAU, NCAA, Evident by the Superstars both the NCAA,AAU and the Europen club systems churns out. Why is this hard to understand ??

[hito da god]

what do you mean average ??? Darko was a top prospect? what happened ?? Kwame >>> darko, Thats as average as it gets. Apart from the gasol brothers, sabonis and a handful players, this euro players can't hold a candle. The european game is the 80's NBA version. The USA has evolved the game so much to make it an entertainment. It's like Brazil soccer and European soccer, the brazillian soccer is far way more entertaining to watch than euro's soccer.
and how did brazil fare in the world cup?

the NBA, basketball wise, is terrible to watch.... you know the level of skill is in the toilet when the ability to make a mid-range jump shot makes you stand out in the NBA. i think where this is most apparent is when you look at european big men as opposed to american big men. guys like gasol, yao, yi, dirk, etc. are praised for their skill as seven footers. is there any reason an american seven footer shouldn't be just as skilled? not at all, they would just rather work on their running, jumping, and strength than their footwork and touch around the basket.

entertainment wise the NBA is fantastic. from a basketball purists' point of view, most would rather watch college or euro league..... for the record, i would rather watch the NBA but there is no denying the fundamental skills are severely lacking in today's game.

[JtotheIzzo]

NCAA not the best way to develop talent? The best players in the history of the NBA went through the NCAA...

that is because EVERY NBA player went through the NCAA until around 20 years ago.

I'd rather have my child prodigy going up against men daily in practice instead of little HS kids.

Imagine if LBJ played for the Cavs youth team instead of SVSM? He'd be attending the pro practice from age fifteen onwards, he's game would be so much further along.

The examples above of big men etc...

Not sure why everyone is so butthurt to admit the club system would be better?

[Batz]

and how did brazil fare in the world cup?

the NBA, basketball wise, is terrible to watch.... you know the level of skill is in the toilet when the ability to make a mid-range jump shot makes you stand out in the NBA. i think where this is most apparent is when you look at european big men as opposed to american big men. guys like gasol, yao, yi, dirk, etc. are praised for their skill as seven footers. is there any reason an american seven footer shouldn't be just as skilled? not at all, they would just rather work on their running, jumping, and strength than their footwork and touch around the basket.

entertainment wise the NBA is fantastic. from a basketball purists' point of view, most would rather watch college or euro league..... for the record, i would rather watch the NBA but there is no denying the fundamental skills are severely lacking in today's game.
Then howcome these skilled mother****ers don't rule the NBA?

that is because EVERY NBA player went through the NCAA until around 20 years ago.

I'd rather have my child prodigy going up against men daily in practice instead of little HS kids.

Imagine if LBJ played for the Cavs youth team instead of SVSM? He'd be attending the pro practice from age fifteen onwards, he's game would be so much further along.

The examples above of big men etc...

Not sure why everyone is so butthurt to admit the club system would be better?
Because there is no evidence at all that the club system in Europe is superior.

[hito da god]

This is what you fail to understand though, the USA team this year is a crop of new players, i can bet you a team like Greece will be recycling their old players again. How is this developing their young players ???, say all you want but i'm for the development of new talents, which USA shits on all of them.
the only reason the younger players are representing team USA is because the players from the redeem team don't want to play, for whatever their reasons might be.

it's not because jerry colangelo is so concerned with "developing young talent" :rolleyes:

[yobore]

The euro system is not better than AAU, NCAA, Evident by the Superstars both the NCAA,AAU and the Europen club systems churns out. Why is this hard to understand ??
That probably has more to do with the popularity of basketball in Europe. I think the different level pro leagues and more distributed minutes probably do help them develop faster.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Thanks for completely misinterpeting what I meant by dominant. I didn't mean Wilt Chamberlian like dominance. I mean dominance. Lebron 30/8/8 season is dominant. Bryants 35/5/5 season is dominant. Mcgrady's 32/6/7 season is dominant. And they're all American perimeter players. So where are the dominant European perimeter players?

LeCon, Kobe, and Stacy McLady never dominated the NBA. Obviously you have no clue what the word dominate means.

[DuMa]

the club system is definitely better and i think thats why we have a developmental league for kids who dont want to go to college and instead work on their pro game. its the same way that its obvious a minor league system like in MLB develops talents much better than a collegiate or high school system.

[lakerspng]

ALl I'm hearing in this thread right now is one side saying players in this country don't work on their skills enough and therefore are not the players they could be. and the other side saying, they're already better so why should they need to.

Isn't the idea to become the best player you can be? There is no reason whatsoever that a physically gifted athlete like Dwight Howard should have such an ugly and limited offensive game. With his speed, strength and coordination, he should be simply unstoppable. Give him Pau Gasol's footwork and touch, he'd average 35-40 ppg. So, why doesn't he? It's not because he doesn't have the capability, it's simply because he did not spend the time working on it. Better yet, give Pau Gasol Dwight Howard's body and I guarantee you the discussion between Kobe, Lebron and Dwade is for who's 2nd best in the league because the top spot would be on lock.

Just because they're already good doesn't make it okay to ignore a current flaw in their development that's keeping them from being their best. And it's not putting down American athletes to admit that it is a flaw.

[ashbelly]

It has nothing to do with fundamentals and flash and everything to do with level of play and competition.

European players turn pro at 15-16. American players do it from 19-22. That's 3-4 years of intensive development American players miss out. At 17, if you're a prospect, you should be having practice twice a day, not twice a week. Europeans have a tremendous advantage in that regard.

The other part is that the competition can be pathetic. Andrei Kirilenko was the MVP of a fairly strong Russian league at 18. This means beating out former NBA-players, quality European veterans, other talented youngsters...Who did John Wall play against at 18? Future postmen, accountants, waiters, and Div3 standouts.

It's worst for American big men. Al Jefferson's senior year HS stats look like this: 42.6 PPG, 18 RPG, 7 BPG, and 4 APG. All this while shooting 72%(!!!) from the field. That's ridiculous. How does dominating a bunch of kids like that help development? Then you wonder why Al can't make it rain down from outside like Okur? How could he, when he never had to learn? He just dominated his HS opposition because he was stronger, bigger, and quicker than anyone else. Hell, that's the same reason LeBron still can't shoot worth anything. He never really needed a shot.

As a matter of fact, which American prep-to-pro star came into the league with an outside shot? The guy whose name is in the thread title. That's it.


This is the biggest myth i see being passed around.. They say players in the euro systems play against grown men at a younger age and are more developed than the USA prospects. Yet when you put both players in the same court, the europlayers underachieve. Ricky rubio is a good example, this kid can't hang in the NBA..

[ZenMaster]

The euro system is not better than AAU, NCAA, Evident by the Superstars both the NCAA,AAU and the Europen club systems churns out. Why is this hard to understand ??

Yes it is. The European system produces more superior basketball talent from players with lesser athletic ability. If the basketball clubs in Europe had the same access to athletic players as those in the US they would develop better overall players as well.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Bryant's Father was a freak Athlete. Dominated the italian league was in but was sub-par in the NBA. So right there you're just assuming that the reason the top 5 players are genetically gifted whilst Bryant's parents hold such genetic values but Kobe does not have them.

Bryant's father never dominated the Italian League. Please get serious. Their were far better players than him in the Italian League when he played there.

[hito da god]

Then howcome these skilled mother****ers don't rule the NBA?
they're starting to come over to the NBA in bigger numbers by the year and decade. basketball is steadily becoming more popular all over the world.


Because there is no evidence at all that the club system in Europe is superior.
there are three ways to get better as a player: working on and improving your body/conditioning, working on your skills, and playing against people who are better than you. if you think dominating high school kids until you're 18 would be better for a player's development than playing against players up to their competition level, then that tells me you've never been a serious basketball player in your life.

[ashbelly]

the only reason the younger players are representing team USA is because the players from the redeem team don't want to play, for whatever their reasons might be.

it's not because jerry colangelo is so concerned with "developing young talent" :rolleyes:


But what does that tell you though, they are still capable of putting up a new team that will excel more than most european countries.

[yobore]

This is the biggest myth i see being passed around.. They say players in the euro systems play against grown men at a younger age and are more developed than the USA prospects. Yet when you put both players in the same court, the europlayers underachieve. Ricky rubio is a good example, this kid can't hang in the NBA..
it's not about the talent level. We are talking about the skills they develop. Obviously the talent level won't be the same on a continent where basketball isn't nearly as popular, but the skills of the people who play seem to be more developed.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

This is what you fail to understand though, the USA team this year is a crop of new players, i can bet you a team like Greece will be recycling their old players again. How is this developing their young players ???, say all you want but i'm for the development of new talents, which USA shits on all of them.

You are wrong. Greece changes 5-8 players between big tournaments.

[Batz]

Bryant's father never dominated the Italian League. Please get serious. Their were far better players than him in the Italian League when he played there.
Did he not have 2 50+ games? Mind just posting this stats?

[ashbelly]

Yes it is. The European system produces more superior basketball talent from players with lesser athletic ability. If the basketball clubs in Europe had the same access to athletic players as those in the US they would develop better overall players as well.

So that means they can never be better than the USA players because they lack the genetics, am i getting you right ??

[Batz]

they're starting to come over to the NBA in bigger numbers by the year and decade. basketball is steadily becoming more popular all over the world.


there are three ways to get better as a player: working on and improving your body/conditioning, working on your skills, and playing against people who are better than you. if you think dominating high school kids until you're 18 would be better for a player's development than playing against players up to their competition level, then that tells me you've never been a serious basketball player in your life.
Well dominating highschool kids till your 18 seems to be working... :confusedshrug:

[Calabis]

I've been saying this for years. The European system teaches fundamentals. Americas are trying shit that is beyond their means and abilities. Instead of learning the fundamentals first they try and emulate what they see on tv without having a grasp on the basics.
:applause:

[yobore]

So that means they can never be better than the USA players because they lack the genetics, am i getting you right ??
there is too much interest in soccer.

[hito da god]

it's not about the talent level. We are talking about the skills they develop. Obviously the talent level won't be the same on a continent where basketball isn't nearly as popular, but the skills of the people who play seem to be more developed.
bingo.


Well dominating highschool kids till your 18 seems to be working... :confusedshrug:
it won't be working as well in about ten years if the current trends continue.

[Batz]

bingo.


it won't be working as well in about ten years if the current trends continue.
Just assumptions. :oldlol:

[ashbelly]

ALl I'm hearing in this thread right now is one side saying players in this country don't work on their skills enough and therefore are not the players they could be. and the other side saying, they're already better so why should they need to.

Isn't the idea to become the best player you can be? There is no reason whatsoever that a physically gifted athlete like Dwight Howard should have such an ugly and limited offensive game. With his speed, strength and coordination, he should be simply unstoppable. Give him Pau Gasol's footwork and touch, he'd average 35-40 ppg. So, why doesn't he? It's not because he doesn't have the capability, it's simply because he did not spend the time working on it. Better yet, give Pau Gasol Dwight Howard's body and I guarantee you the discussion between Kobe, Lebron and Dwade is for who's 2nd best in the league because the top spot would be on lock.

Just because they're already good doesn't make it okay to ignore a current flaw in their development that's keeping them from being their best. And it's not putting down American athletes to admit that it is a flaw.


What you fail to understand is, players develop other skills to help cover up for their short comings, Gasol developed his finese game because he doesnt have the genetics of Dwight howard. Howard doesn't need to have a finese game since he has the genetics to cover up his flaws. What about dirk ??? This guy is supposed to be a PF ?? bu plays like a SF? why is it ??

[Swaggin916]

European players generally have better skills and can shoot much better than American black players. White American players in the NBA are generally shooters as well tho (Korver, Reddick, Kapono) unless they are big men (and they usually can shoot as well). That's all they can do tho (maybe put it on the floor a little bit)... The European skillset is generally better and that's due to better player development.

Someone said earlier in the thread American black handles>>>Euro Handles. Well I would say you are right and the reason for this is because black kids at the playground develope that handle cus you need to have a sweet crossover to get the oohs and ahhs... but also just to get by your man. When you are always playing against other black athletes who are just as athletic if not moreso than you, you have to have a sick handle and shifty as shit to get past them... and that's why you have all these Roses, Westbrooks, Rondos, etc. out there who can get to the cup but can't shoot (Rose and westy have developed the midrange tho). What these can do tho is get their own shot... European players can hit a 17 footer all day when they are open, but most of them can't shake a guy to get that shot on their own.

So basically players have different skillsets... but in the end it helps to have better athletes and length out there and that is why black players will always dominate the NBA.

[Hammertime]

This is retarded. The US has a population of 300 million, and Greece has a population of 11 million and people are asking why Greece cannot produce a better 12-man roster than the US?

Here's an easier way of looking at it. The population of Colorado is roughly that of Croatia. Both countries have between a third and a quarter of their population living in one large metropolitan zone. How would an all-time Colorado starting 5 fare against a Croatian all-time starting 5?

[Calabis]

Then explain why no international player, excluding Canadians and Kobe, cannot dominate the game of basketball? Why isn't their a international superstar around here? Where's German Lebron!?

My guess because they haven't had many guys who have combined great athleticism with fundamentals, also the pool of players...soccer is there game of choice. I have said this for awhile now, too many of todays guys want the highlight reel play, which is why the mid range game is all but extinct in today's NBA, Richard Hamilton may be the last guy we see making a living of the mid range jumper.

Kobe is right imo, also he is the last of a dying breed

[Lakas Fan Yo]

This is the biggest myth i see being passed around.. They say players in the euro systems play against grown men at a younger age and are more developed than the USA prospects. Yet when you put both players in the same court, the europlayers underachieve. Ricky rubio is a good example, this kid can't hang in the NBA..


Rubio is at best an average Euroleague player. What is so hard for YOU to understand about THAT?

You cite an example of an average or mediocre Euroleague player. Not even near to one of the best players Europe has to offer. Typical NBA only fan. He's a flashy youtube hype machine and he has the Latino market behind him. That's why he has NBA value.

Has literally ZERO to do with his ability to play basketball. That's how the American basketball system is. It is too concerned with flash, hype, marketing, run and jump athletes, etc.

It needs to focus more on fundamental basketball, skill development, team play, learning what helps win games, etc. Things that were important 20-25 years ago in the American system but not now.

[ashbelly]

there is too much interest in soccer.


And how is a continent that likes soccer more than basketball supposed to have superior basketball system than a continent that actually embraces Basketball ?? Tell me mr. beans analysis is not dumb ???

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Did he not have 2 50+ games? Mind just posting this stats?


Are you trying to earn an ignore? Joe Bryant was never considered a dominant player in Italy. I can assure you that you are in dream land if you believe that.

[Batz]

My guess because they haven't had many guys who have combined great athleticism with fundamentals, also the pool of players...soccer is there game of choice. I have said this for awhile now, too many of todays guys want the highlight reel play, which is why the mid range game is all but extinct in today's NBA, Richard Hamilton may be the last guy we see making a living of the mid range jumper
Yet Rip is not a dominant basketball player...


And does Melo not exist or am I missing something?

Are you trying to earn an ignore? Joe Bryant was never considered a dominant player in Italy. I can assure you that you are in dream land if you believe that.
So you're not going to post stats? Kay. He had two 50+ point games. Pretty ****ing awesome if you ask me.

[hito da god]

What you fail to understand is, players develop other skills to help cover up for their short comings, Gasol developed his finese game because he doesnt have the genetics of Dwight howard. Howard doesn't need to have a finese game since he has the genetics to cover up his flaws. What about dirk ??? This guy is supposed to be a PF ?? bu plays like a SF? why is it ??
the argument we're making is that if dwight had developed his skillset, coupled with his athletic ability, he'd be a much better player, and therefore the level of play in the NBA would be much better.

[lakerspng]

What you fail to understand is, players develop other skills to help cover up for their short comings, Gasol developed his finese game because he doesnt have the genetics of Dwight howard. Howard doesn't need to have a finese game since he has the genetics to cover up his flaws. What about dirk ??? This guy is supposed to be a PF ?? bu plays like a SF? why is it ??

The only problem is, doing more to develop those additional skills is the only reason Kobe's even relevant at this point. his athleticism as it was is gone, yet he still dominates the NBA scape. It's the reason Jordan dominated into his late 30s. They had the athleticism, but knew that ultimately that would fail and they would need to rely on other things to get the job done. Same with Bird, Russell, Jabbar. All players who were able to still impact the games even after , or in bird's case never, their athleticism was not a factor.

I don't see many players from today aging well and it's a reason that most, become completely irrelevant past the age of 30

[Lakas Fan Yo]

This thread is about the basketball development system, not who has the better players.

Blacks are superiors athletes, the US has more blacks than Europe.

The white players of the US aren't as good as those of Europe. This is because the development system is better. It's not that hard to comprehend.

@ Batz

What are you talking about? The German Lebron is Dirk Nowitzki.

Yet another racist at this site.:rolleyes:

[ZenMaster]

So that means they can never be better than the USA players because they lack the genetics, am i getting you right ??

Blacks>Whites when it comes to athletic competition, I thought this was common knowledge.

The fact that some of the best players in the League is even white and from Europe is a victory for the European development system.

If these things aren't true, why aren't there as many good white players from the US as there is from Europe? Does the fabulous AAU system not work for white American players? Are the whites of the US athletically inferior to those of Europe?

Or is is just that the European basketball development system is better than that of the US?

[Calabis]

And how is a continent that likes soccer more than basketball supposed to have superior basketball system than a continent that actually embraces Basketball ?? Tell me mr. beans analysis is not dumb ???

Lol, soccer guys are great athletes, even though I cannot stand that sport. When you can cross up dudes while kicking a ball with your feet, I'm sure they could have learned how to do it dribbling a basketball.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

European players generally have better skills and can shoot much better than American black players. White American players in the NBA are generally shooters as well tho (Korver, Reddick, Kapono) unless they are big men (and they usually can shoot as well). That's all they can do tho (maybe put it on the floor a little bit)... The European skillset is generally better and that's due to better player development.

Someone said earlier in the thread American black handles>>>Euro Handles. Well I would say you are right and the reason for this is because black kids at the playground develope that handle cus you need to have a sweet crossover to get the oohs and ahhs... but also just to get by your man. When you are always playing against other black athletes who are just as athletic if not moreso than you, you have to have a sick handle and shifty as shit to get past them... and that's why you have all these Roses, Westbrooks, Rondos, etc. out there who can get to the cup but can't shoot (Rose and westy have developed the midrange tho). What these can do tho is get their own shot... European players can hit a 17 footer all day when they are open, but most of them can't shake a guy to get that shot on their own.

So basically players have different skillsets... but in the end it helps to have better athletes and length out there and that is why black players will always dominate the NBA.


Why are all these racists always allowed in this site? It's really embarrassing.

[ashbelly]

the argument we're making is that if dwight had developed his skillset, coupled with his athletic ability, he'd be a much better player, and therefore the level of play in the NBA would be much better.

what about big sofo ??

[john_d]

Blacks>Whites when it comes to athletic competition, I thought this was common knowledge.

The fact that some of the best players in the League is even white and from Europe is a victory for the European development system.

If these things aren't true, why aren't there as many good white players from the US as there is from Europe? Does the fabulous AAU system not work for white American players? Are the whites of the US athletically inferior to those of Europe?

Or is is just that the European basketball development system is better than that of the US?
we have a winner.

[dealer77]

AAU tramps all those systems bro.. It has been producing superstars for decades.. :rolleyes: I'm i missing something here ?? Not everything that is foreign is good for you... :no:

:rant

The production of superstars is not the issue. The best players will emerge as superstars, that is something intrinsic to every sport. The issue at hand is the fundamentals and versatility of the players being developed. Players in their youth are encouraged to make highlight reel dunks, not develop a hook shot. Hook shots are boring. Defense (other than blocks into the 9th row of seats) is boring. Players are encouraged to just make the exciting plays instead of learning how to make the good plays.

Generally speaking, the European players that come to the NBA are taught to develop and hone a particular skill, and to create their own niche within the concept of the team. American players come to the NCAA then eventually the NBA on a publicity tour trying to prove that they are the second coming of Michael Jordan.

The superstar phenomenon is more of an anomaly of the American player development, not the norm, and it emerges because of the lack of fundamentals in the competition, not necessarily as a result of the player's own developmental success. Occasionally, players will develop fundamental talents irrespetive of their backgrounds, but the emphasis of the coaches too often turns to the celebrity of their athletic prodigies.

Overall, the American system seems to develop players for a game which consists of dunking and 3-point shooting, the glitzy plays of basketball, whereas the European system develops players to play 5v5 basketball. This can be seen in the marketing of the NBA as well, with games being branded Carmelo vs Durant, not the Nuggets vs the Thunder.

[JtotheIzzo]

NCAA not the best way to develop talent? The best players in the history of the NBA went through the NCAA...

U sure?

Last time I checked 3 of the top 4 players in the nba played exactly ZERO NCAA games, and most recent stars were one and done.

The system isn't relevant anymore. That is fact, ask KB, DHo and LBJ what it did for them.

There are better ways to develop talent and it isn't AAU. If changes aren't made skills could erode further.

[ZenMaster]

Yet another racist at this site.:rolleyes:

What's racist about it?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Yet Rip is not a dominant basketball player...


And does Melo not exist or am I missing something?

So you're not going to post stats? Kay. He had two 50+ point games. Pretty ****ing awesome if you ask me.

Well, I will just ignore you.

[ashbelly]

Blacks>Whites when it comes to athletic competition, I thought this was common knowledge.

The fact that some of the best players in the League is even white and from Europe is a victory for the European development system.

If these things aren't true, why aren't there as many good white players from the US as there is from Europe? Does the fabulous AAU system not work for white American players? Are the whites of the US athletically inferior to those of Europe?

Or is is just that the European basketball development system is better than that of the US?


why are there soo many south americans in Baseball ?? why are chinese better in judo and karate? why are sumo wrestlers fat? You are trying to make this a racial thing by comparing american white players to european white players instead of comparing american baskletball players in general whether white or Black to European players.. American basketball players >>>>>>> European players. Fact bro.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Blacks>Whites when it comes to athletic competition, I thought this was common knowledge.

The fact that some of the best players in the League is even white and from Europe is a victory for the European development system.

If these things aren't true, why aren't there as many good white players from the US as there is from Europe? Does the fabulous AAU system not work for white American players? Are the whites of the US athletically inferior to those of Europe?

Or is is just that the European basketball development system is better than that of the US?

Please take the racist crap out of this discussion.

[Batz]

Well, I will just ignore you.
What a complete pu$$y you are.

found his stats:
http://195.56.77.208/player/pbd.phtml?ply=BRY-JOE-54&from=1980&team=562&type2=t&name_search=Bryant

anyone mind just translating that?

[yobore]

why are there soo many south americans in Baseball ?? why are chinese better in judo and karate? why are sumo wrestlers fat? You are trying to make this a racial thing by comparing american white players to european white players instead of comaparing american baskletball players in geberal whether white or Black to European players.. American basketball players >>>>>>> European players. Fact bro.
noone is arguing with you on that. You are getting defensive about USA vs European players. This thread isn't about that it's about which system is better at developing players.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

What's racist about it?

You are a racist. You don't know what's racist about it, because you are a typical racist.

[ashbelly]

U sure?

Last time I checked 3 of the top 4 players in the nba played exactly ZERO NCAA games, and most recent stars were one and done.

The system isn't relevant anymore. That is fact, ask KB, DHo and LBJ what it did for them.

There are better ways to develop talent and it isn't AAU. If changes aren't made skills could erode further.

You act like AAU started since lebron came into the league. AAU has been developing players for decades. :rolleyes: where do you think garnett came from ?? :rolleyes:

[Lakas Fan Yo]

why are there soo many south americans in Baseball ?? why are chinese better in judo and karate? why are sumo wrestlers fat? You are trying to make this a racial thing by comparing american white players to european white players instead of comparing american baskletball players in general whether white or Black to European players.. American basketball players >>>>>>> European players. Fact bro.

He's a racist. You are an ignorant xenophobe. Not much difference IMHO.

[Disaprine]

It has nothing to do with fundamentals and flash and everything to do with level of play and competition.

European players turn pro at 15-16. American players do it from 19-22. That's 3-4 years of intensive development American players miss out. At 17, if you're a prospect, you should be having practice twice a day, not twice a week. Europeans have a tremendous advantage in that regard.

The other part is that the competition can be pathetic. Andrei Kirilenko was the MVP of a fairly strong Russian league at 18. This means beating out former NBA-players, quality European veterans, other talented youngsters...Who did John Wall play against at 18? Future postmen, accountants, waiters, and Div3 standouts.

It's worst for American big men. Al Jefferson's senior year HS stats look like this: 42.6 PPG, 18 RPG, 7 BPG, and 4 APG. All this while shooting 72%(!!!) from the field. That's ridiculous. How does dominating a bunch of kids like that help development? Then you wonder why Al can't make it rain down from outside like Okur? How could he, when he never had to learn? He just dominated his HS opposition because he was stronger, bigger, and quicker than anyone else. Hell, that's the same reason LeBron still can't shoot worth anything. He never really needed a shot.

As a matter of fact, which American prep-to-pro star came into the league with an outside shot? The guy whose name is in the thread title. That's it.
this and thread ended in page 3.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

This is retarded. The US has a population of 300 million, and Greece has a population of 11 million and people are asking why Greece cannot produce a better 12-man roster than the US?

Here's an easier way of looking at it. The population of Colorado is roughly that of Croatia. Both countries have between a third and a quarter of their population living in one large metropolitan zone. How would an all-time Colorado starting 5 fare against a Croatian all-time starting 5?

Good point. I believe the US has a population of 310 million now.

[ZenMaster]

Please take the racist crap out of this discussion.

Body genetics has nothing to do with racism.

[Calabis]

Yet Rip is not a dominant basketball player...


And does Melo not exist or am I missing something?

So you're not going to post stats? Kay. He had two 50+ point games. Pretty ****ing awesome if you ask me.

I didn't say he dominated, just pointing out a mid range jump shooter and Melo doesn't live exclusively on a mid range jumper like Rip did. And why are you arguing, I simply gave you an answer to why no one from europe has dominated, I guessing since they haven't had a guy who has both athleticism and fundamentals, like a Kobe.

also Rip was a all star which made him one of the better players in the league

[ashbelly]

noone is arguing with you on that. You are getting defensive about USA vs European players. This thread isn't about that it's about which system is better at developing players.

But my question to you is this,

European embrace soccer more than Basketball right? America embraces basketball more than any continent, so how can the european system be better than the American system yet they live and breathe it? :rolleyes:

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Body genetics has nothing to do with racism.


What you posted was pure racism.

[ZenMaster]

What you posted was pure racism.


You're a moron.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

You're a moron.


Anyone that is not a racist knows that what you posted was racist.

[ZenMaster]

why are there soo many south americans in Baseball ?? why are chinese better in judo and karate? why are sumo wrestlers fat? You are trying to make this a racial thing by comparing american white players to european white players instead of comparing american baskletball players in general whether white or Black to European players.. American basketball players >>>>>>> European players. Fact bro.

Those are sports not dominated by black participants right?

It's a fact that in sports that are dominated in terms of numbers by blacks participants, the blacks do better because of superior body genetics.

Why are there no white people in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qslbf8L9nl0

Answer: There are no whites in the video because in the entire world there is only 1 white guy who can run 100 meters in less than 10 seconds.

[ZenMaster]

Anyone that is not a racist knows that what you posted was racist.

Body genetics has nothing to do with racism, you lack perspective.

[bdreason]

The Club system is definitely better than the High School, AAU, College system we have going here in the States.


However, the U.S. still produces the most talent, and it isn't even close. If we had a system here where kids started training with pros at the age of 13-14?!? :eek:

[taucesays]

Racist what? It's a well known fact that blacks are generally taller and faster due to genetic factors. If I said taller people were generally better at basketball you wouldn't say that I'm discriminating; I would be stating the obvious. Pull your head out of your ass.

[john_d]

we have two obsessed people on this thread.

Lakas Fan Yo - obsessed and butthurt about everything.
ashbelly - obsessed and butthurt about anything not american. ( i dont even think you look american at all )

[KenneBell]

He's right. If American players had access to the Euro model, I doubt we'd see as many Euro players in the NBA.

[Batz]

Racist what? It's a well known fact that blacks are generally taller and faster due to genetic factors. If I said taller people were generally better at basketball you wouldn't say that I'm discriminating; I would be stating the obvious. Pull your head out of your ass.
Genetic factors? So Lebron's parents were athletic freaks now? It's not because he practically lived in the gym working out like crazy? Or Dwight Howard, all he did was workout. His parents weren't 50 inch vertical leapers. He worked his ass off. That genetic shit is just assumption. Which is all you have. Pathetic assumptions.

[thejumpa]

Genetic factors? So Lebron's parents were athletic freaks now? It's not because he practically lived in the gym working out like crazy? Or Dwight Howard, all he did was workout. His parents weren't 50 inch vertical leapers. He worked his ass off. That genetic shit is just assumption. Which is all you have. Pathetic assumptions.

You don't know what the hell you are talking about. LeBron didn't get that atheltic by hitting the gym every day. Of course he lifts and that helps him out, but he's definitely genetically gifted. Same with Dwight Howard. These guys didn't figure out some secret to weight lifting. It helped, but so does their superior genetics. Go to any court around the nation and you will find similar players(yes, most are black and are born with great genes).

[ZenMaster]

Genetic factors? So Lebron's parents were athletic freaks now? It's not because he practically lived in the gym working out like crazy? Or Dwight Howard, all he did was workout. His parents weren't 50 inch vertical leapers. He worked his ass off. That genetic shit is just assumption. Which is all you have. Pathetic assumptions.

No black genetics are above white genetics.

[chains5000]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: I would like to have some of that sherm mr beans is smoking. what a douchebag... He didnt hear what Yao ming was telling his country ??? :roll: :roll: ..


. aau >>>>>>>
Cause we all know Yao is European, right?

[novocaine]

But my question to you is this,

European embrace soccer more than Basketball right? America embraces basketball more than any continent, so how can the european system be better than the American system yet they live and breathe it? :rolleyes:


you have absolutely no idea. you already diqualified yourself with the "brazilian soccer more entertaining" post. shows that you have no, really no idea what you are talking about.

i bet, you have never seen a european league game.

[Batz]

No black genetics are above white genetics.
Assumptions... :violin:

Cause we all know Yao is European, right?
Same shit. The article was posted in China when Kobe was in China.

[ashbelly]

He's right. If American players had access to the Euro model, I doubt we'd see as many Euro players in the NBA.


WRONG... NBA caters to a global market. european players are hired to strengthen their Global apeal. Darko has no business being in the NBA, or being drafted top 5.. but they have to appeal to the global market and thats why they accomodate him.

[Yuki Nagato]

I swear Lakas fan yo is a friggin robot, he hear keywords such as "Rubio" or "black" and he's automatically getting freaking mad.

"Hey haven't you heard Black & White from Michael Jackson?"
"YOU RACIST SCUMBAG"

Worst poster ever to never been banned on ISH :facepalm

[ZenMaster]

Assumptions... :violin:

Same shit. The article was posted in China when Kobe was in China.


IMO it's ignorant not to believe it.

[ZenMaster]

WRONG... NBA caters to a global market. european players are hired to strengthen their Global apeal. Darko has no business being in the NBA, or being drafted top 5.. but they have to appeal to the global market and thats why they accomodate him.

No he was right.

[thejumpa]

He's right. If American players had access to the Euro model, I doubt we'd see as many Euro players in the NBA.

I agree. Skills go a long away. However, skills+athleticism go a lot further. The NBA would be sooooo much better.

[Haymaker]

Kobe skipped college, thus skipped a very important part of developing his fundamentals. He's not one to talk about development.

[The Choken One]

:roll: ashbelly is a clown.

Seriously though, do you actually think you're right on all the points your arguing? :lol

[MasterDurant24]

I thought this was a well known fact.

[ashbelly]

Kobe skipped college, thus skipped a very important part of developing his fundamentals. He's not one to talk about development.



:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :eek:

[Ikill]

I've been saying this for years. The European system teaches fundamentals. Americas are trying shit that is beyond their means and abilities. Instead of learning the fundamentals first they try and emulate what they see on tv without having a grasp on the basics.
ok fundamentals and athleticism are equally important, Americans are not just naturally more athletic they work on it in these types high school prep programs unlike in europe you can be out of shape and still be a good player thats not good development all they work on is shooting when people in US work on everything

[Ikill]

Those are sports not dominated by black participants right?

It's a fact that in sports that are dominated in terms of numbers by blacks participants, the blacks do better because of superior body genetics.

Why are there no white people in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qslbf8L9nl0

Answer: There are no whites in the video because in the entire world there is only 1 white guy who can run 100 meters in less than 10 seconds.
seriously a white can be just as athletic if he wanted to proper training will do it

[ZenMaster]

ok fundamentals and athleticism are equally important, Americans are not just naturally more athletic they work on it in these types high school prep programs unlike in europe you can be out of shape and still be a good player thats not good development all they work on is shooting when people in US work on everything

It's only part of it.

You can't make it a good thing that Al Jefferson at about age 18 is playing a year of basketball where he averages 42 points per game.
This would never happen in the European model because the player would have been moved up to play equal competition.

[Ikill]

The Club system is definitely better than the High School, AAU, College system we have going here in the States.


However, the U.S. still produces the most talent, and it isn't even close. If we had a system here where kids started training with pros at the age of 13-14?!? :eek:
ok no the club system would be bad cause it wouldnt help the kids who develop and some kids develop really early and suck later because a lack of work ethic or they stop growing. like you shouldnt scout kids at 13 because there games are still growing and could still be changed alot.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

WRONG... NBA caters to a global market. european players are hired to strengthen their Global apeal. Darko has no business being in the NBA, or being drafted top 5.. but they have to appeal to the global market and thats why they accomodate him.

Darko has no global appeal. He isn't even popular in Serbia. :lol :roll:

[Ikill]

My guess because they haven't had many guys who have combined great athleticism with fundamentals, also the pool of players...soccer is there game of choice. I have said this for awhile now, too many of todays guys want the highlight reel play, which is why the mid range game is all but extinct in today's NBA, Richard Hamilton may be the last guy we see making a living of the mid range jumper.

Kobe is right imo, also he is the last of a dying breed
yeah Europeans dont work on athleticism at all like seriously half them are fat you gotta work on both

[R.I.P.]

Then explain why no international player, excluding Canadians and Kobe, cannot dominate the game of basketball? Why isn't their a international superstar around here? Where's German Lebron!?

Fighting his coaches over four steps and touch fouls?

[Ikill]

Rubio is at best an average Euroleague player. What is so hard for YOU to understand about THAT?

You cite an example of an average or mediocre Euroleague player. Not even near to one of the best players Europe has to offer. Typical NBA only fan. He's a flashy youtube hype machine and he has the Latino market behind him. That's why he has NBA value.

Has literally ZERO to do with his ability to play basketball. That's how the American basketball system is. It is too concerned with flash, hype, marketing, run and jump athletes, etc.

It needs to focus more on fundamental basketball, skill development, team play, learning what helps win games, etc. Things that were important 20-25 years ago in the American system but not now.
this flash and highlights come from being athletic they look flashy because there athletic not cause there trying to be. Euro players cant hang with nba players because back in Europe they didn't get these fat asses in shape. Getting ahtletic is alot harder than developing fundamentals

[Ikill]

one thing i dont get is why there are more europeans in the nba than Canadian like seriously if i went to europe would i find more baller there or in Canada. I can say there is alot of ballers here in Canada just wait in 5 years Canada will be better than every European country in basketball there ton of talent coming out we'll only be second to the USA

[XxSMSxX]

seriously a white can be just as athletic if he wanted to proper training will do it


This is only partially true, a perfect example would be if you took two 10 year olds, one white and one black and trained both of them for the same amount of time and they ate all the same things etc. for say 5 years. If you had them both race each other at the age of 15 the black kid would undoubtedly be faster because blacks typically have far more fast twitch muscles than whites do because of their genetics. This isn't to say whites can't be faster than blacks but it is an advantage

[ZenMaster]

ok no the club system would be bad cause it wouldnt help the kids who develop and some kids develop really early and suck later because a lack of work ethic or they stop growing. like you shouldnt scout kids at 13 because there games are still growing and could still be changed alot.

Makes no sense.

[Ikill]

Makes no sense.
:lol yeah im having a hard time explaining this never mind

[Ikill]

This is only partially true, a perfect example would be if you took two 10 year olds, one white and one black and trained both of them for the same amount of time and they ate all the same things etc. for say 5 years. If you had them both race each other at the age of 15 the black kid would undoubtedly be faster because blacks typically have far more fast twitch muscles than whites do because of their genetics. This isn't to say whites can't be faster than blacks but it is an advantage
but would the black be way more athletic like would have 40 inch vertical while the white guy has 32? like i doubt that im saying the Europeans dont work on their athleticism at all

[praneel]

STFU trying to school everybody, you`re just an annoying bandwagoner.


:roll: :roll:

I agree with him though.

I don't think race has a lot to do with it.

Plus Nash is from Africa, doesn't that make him black?

:confusedshrug:

[ZenMaster]

but would the black be way more athletic like would have 40 inch vertical while the white guy has 32? like i doubt that im saying the Europeans dont work on their athleticism at all


What makes you think that European basketball players doesn't work on their athleticism?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

This is only partially true, a perfect example would be if you took two 10 year olds, one white and one black and trained both of them for the same amount of time and they ate all the same things etc. for say 5 years. If you had them both race each other at the age of 15 the black kid would undoubtedly be faster because blacks typically have far more fast twitch muscles than whites do because of their genetics. This isn't to say whites can't be faster than blacks but it is an advantage

Can someone delete all these blatantly racist posts?

[triangleoffense]

why did you have to bring skin color into it ??? USA basketball players >>>>>

If you can't acknowledge that, then you and mr. beans are delusional.

Anyone with half a brain can obviously see that the US is lacking overall depth and talent of white players. There must be a reason for this disparity.

[heyhey]

Real knows real.

America produces uncoordinated big men with no offensive skills like D. HO

while Europeans have the centers with greatest offensive skills in history with Nowitzki and Pau Gasol.

If I had a kid I would send him to Europe to get schooled on Bball and not waste time with all those Nike spokespersons working the AAU these days.

[DirkLegend41]

I actually agree with Kobe. The U.S game is based more on athletic ability rather than actual basketball skill..

[DirkLegend41]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: I would like to have some of that sherm mr beans is smoking. what a douchebag... He didnt hear what Yao ming was telling his country ??? :roll: :roll: ..


. aau >>>>>>>
:no:

[5rings]

Brandon Jennings is a perfect example of an american player going overseas and coming back playing great.

He probably learned more in his time there than in college or a NBA team.

Just look at dude's transition to the NBA game...it's been damn impressive.

[amfirst]

This is what you fail to understand though, the USA team this year is a crop of new players, i can bet you a team like Greece will be recycling their old players again. How is this developing their young players ???, say all you want but i'm for the development of new talents, which USA shits on all of them.

Lets not forget, team USA would have lost the goal medal if it weren't for Kobe.

[SinJackal]

It's a pity the NBA caters for the way the American players are being developed...

That, plus some of the most useless aspects of basketball are what are glamourized the most (flashy dunks, and going 1 on 5 constantly while shooting 40% or less).

U.S. basketball players are more athletic, but I agree with Kobe, their skills are severely lacking. It's all about what gets attention, rather than what works. Can't blame them though, if they get paid big bucks for scoring 15 PPG on barely 40% shooting, just because they can do flashy dunks and bang a three every now and then, with barely a couple assists or rebounds per game.

[Mgamer20o0]

forgive my ignorance but can someone spell out how the whole usa development system works. i know about the pros but never into much bellow that. NCAA cant do too much developing when so many players only stick around a year. when they do stick around i assume more real development takes place. even then how much of the year do practice and how often? from a nba prospect i think it would be better to extend the pre season but cut the games. doesnt always seem easy to really start working on skills during the season.

its late and i am not 100% sure how to put this. while the euro system might be better i dont think its cool putting kids into a pro athletic system like they seem to do in euro. let them be kids and grow up. now once they are 17-18 and want to do it i the usa needs a stronger more intense system from my limited knowledge. from draft night let the teams take ahold of the players and spend a few months working on the skill sets they need to improve. anyone who thinks one is better then the other and cant take something from the other side i think is also a bit foolish.

[TROLL_HUNTER]

Obviously a smart player like Kobe, who is also a superior talent, knows better. NBA nowadays has to be with flash, dunking, scoring +30 while choking your team and so on. its not a coincidence that super talented players before the USA 2008 team crashed out in the international competition. On the paper they were way better than anybody else but they LACKED THE FUNDAMENTALS to play as a team. thats why they lost.

the level of individualism in almost every american ball player is unreal. Just a few stand out of the bunch of prima donnas and selfish *******. Come on guys, this site is full of threads on individual legacies and so on. as basketball is a team sport this mindset stands against the very first fundamental of any colective sport: to be able to play as a team. This idea is implemented in euro players in a different fashion because they are already in a pro discipline since they are very young and the coaching they receive is miles ahead of any coaching they may get at HS or univ.

Also, i am stunned at the level of blindness in here, arguing the points raised by Zenmaster, whose common sense once again saves the thread. Basketball is a sport where athleticism makes up for a poor skillset. we have quite a few examples already. And, when it comes to athleticism, EVERYBODY knows the blacks are just much faster, stronger and bigger than whites. I mean, theres no way you can compare.

I am white and muscular due to heavy workouts and i can tell you that many black friends of mine are even stronger than me only by nature. they are born with that body frame. so if some of you guys are even questioning this as an absolute truth... its not about racism. each race has different "skills" or characteristics. have you ever wonder why there are not black swimmers?? come think of it. theres a genetic reason behind it. the blacks dont have as much as fat as the whites have and that fat is used to float in the water (as fat is lighter than pure muscle) so they are much worse swimmers. this works the other way around for explosiveness needed in sports like 100 m race or basketball.

so basically, the perfect ball player would have the european IQ and the black american strength. well, that is Michael Jordan, for example.

[SEEBASS1234]

Of course it is. And Kobe knows that personally because he was developed in Italy in one of their youth club systems. It's one of the main reasons why his skills level if so much better than other NBA players, even though he never played in the NCAA.
lolz @ you

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Obviously a smart player like Kobe, who is also a superior talent, knows better. NBA nowadays has to be with flash, dunking, scoring +30 while choking your team and so on. its not a coincidence that super talented players before the USA 2008 team crashed out in the international competition. On the paper they were way better than anybody else but they LACKED THE FUNDAMENTALS to play as a team. thats why they lost.

the level of individualism in almost every american ball player is unreal. Just a few stand out of the bunch of prima donnas and selfish *******. Come on guys, this site is full of threads on individual legacies and so on. as basketball is a team sport this mindset stands against the very first fundamental of any colective sport: to be able to play as a team. This idea is implemented in euro players in a different fashion because they are already in a pro discipline since they are very young and the coaching they receive is miles ahead of any coaching they may get at HS or univ.

Also, i am stunned at the level of blindness in here, arguing the points raised by Zenmaster, whose common sense once again saves the thread. Basketball is a sport where athleticism makes up for a poor skillset. we have quite a few examples already. And, when it comes to athleticism, EVERYBODY knows the blacks are just much faster, stronger and bigger than whites. I mean, theres no way you can compare.

I am white and muscular due to heavy workouts and i can tell you that many black friends of mine are even stronger than me only by nature. they are born with that body frame. so if some of you guys are even questioning this as an absolute truth... its not about racism. each race has different "skills" or characteristics. have you ever wonder why there are not black swimmers?? come think of it. theres a genetic reason behind it. the blacks dont have as much as fat as the whites have and that fat is used to float in the water (as fat is lighter than pure muscle) so they are much worse swimmers. this works the other way around for explosiveness needed in sports like 100 m race or basketball.

so basically, the perfect ball player would have the european IQ and the black american strength. well, that is Michael Jordan, for example.

If you are going to post RACISM at least get your facts right. Nordics and Balkans people are by FACT officially tested as the most athletic, tallest, and strongest people in the world. Black Americans are not even close.

Let's just keep the racism out of this thread please. Being a good basketball player is not based on your race and only extremely stupid people would believe such a thing.

[Rambis]

[QUOTE=Lakas Fan Yo]If you are going to post RACISM at least get your facts right. Nordics and Balkans people are by FACT officially tested as the most athletic, tallest, and strongest people in the world. Black Americans are not even close.[QUOTE]

I've never heard that Nordics and Balkans (incredibly disparate groups btw) officially tested as the most "athletic." I would question if people could really define what "athletic" means -- because such disparate sets of attributes are good for different sports, i.e. what makes someone a good judo practicioner probably isn't the same for someone who rows crew.

I think, if most people are honest with themselves, that everyone has a thought about whether blacks/african-americans are the most gifted athletes in the world. The greatest piece of evidence I can site is that in the most popular sport worldwide -- soccer/football (as it is referred to in almost all other countries) -- the best players aren't black or always black anyway -- its quite a mix. So for me, that does show something.

But, it's clear, that in America, the best athletes are consistently African-American, though most attribute that fact due to socio-economic conditions, and not something based on genetics.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

I've never heard that Nordics and Balkans (incredibly disparate groups btw) officially tested as the most "athletic." I would question if people could really define what "athletic" means -- because such disparate sets of attributes are good for different sports, i.e. what makes someone a good judo practicioner probably isn't the same for someone who rows crew.

I think, if most people are honest with themselves, that everyone has a thought about whether blacks/african-americans are the most gifted athletes in the world. The greatest piece of evidence I can site is that in the most popular sport worldwide -- soccer/football (as it is referred to in almost all other countries) -- the best players aren't black or always black anyway -- its quite a mix. So for me, that does show something.

But, it's clear, that in America, the best athletes are consistently African-American, though most attribute that fact due to socio-economic conditions, and not something based on genetics.

Exactly. These guys in here are clearly racists and their racist posts should not be tolerated at this site.

[Ikill]

That, plus some of the most useless aspects of basketball are what are glamourized the most (flashy dunks, and going 1 on 5 constantly while shooting 40% or less).

U.S. basketball players are more athletic, but I agree with Kobe, their skills are severely lacking. It's all about what gets attention, rather than what works. Can't blame them though, if they get paid big bucks for scoring 15 PPG on barely 40% shooting, just because they can do flashy dunks and bang a three every now and then, with barely a couple assists or rebounds per game.
all euros can do is shoot

[TROLL_HUNTER]

If you are going to post RACISM at least get your facts right. Nordics and Balkans people are by FACT officially tested as the most athletic, tallest, and strongest people in the world. Black Americans are not even close.

Let's just keep the racism out of this thread please. Being a good basketball player is not based on your race and only extremely stupid people would believe such a thing.

i am white and caucasican. may i know why you consider my post racism? i dont get it yet. then, from your standpoint you mean that an asian athlete has the same body frame as a white one and a white the same as a black? come on, its not about sports but different gens. i cant understand how this is even debatable. not only races but different ethnic groups have different physical conditions. Southamericans from Peru, Bolivia, etc are shorter than europeans and europeans from mediterranean countries are also shorter than north europeans as well as their bodies are way narrower. if there are these big differences between whites, how can you deny that theres an even bigger gap between different races? man, seriously, sometimes you are pretty delusional. then, if i say that men are stronger and taller than women, will you call me sexist? :facepalm

[ZenMaster]

all euros can do is shoot

I can see how it would be hard to try and hide your ignorance through an entire thread.

[ZenMaster]

i am white and caucasican. may i know why you consider my post racism? i dont get it yet. then, from your standpoint you mean that an asian athlete has the same body frame as a white one and a white the same as a black? come on, its not about sports but different gens. i cant understand how this is even debatable. not only races but different ethnic groups have different physical conditions. Southamericans from Peru, Bolivia, etc are shorter than europeans and europeans from mediterranean countries are also shorter than north europeans as well as their bodies are way narrower. if there are these big differences between whites, how can you deny that theres an even bigger gap between different races? man, seriously, sometimes you are pretty delusional. then, if i say that men are stronger and taller than women, will you call me sexist? :facepalm

He can't explain why it's racism because it makes no sense.

He's without a doubt the weirdest person I've ever come across on a message board.