Alex English: severely underrated or not that good? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

EarlTheGoat

08-02-2010, 05:53 AM

Thats the question. I started watching basketball in the 90`s so I didnt watch Alex English play at all. Recently I was watching some LA Lakers 80`s games and they played against the Nuggets a couple of times, playoffs, regular season and so on.

I really got impressed by Alex English, I knew he existed and I knew he was good, but not this good, and I barely see people talking about him or his game. So I made some superficial research, looking for some stats and he was putting crazy scoring numbers on great efficiency. A SG-SF putting 28.4 ppg on more than 50 %, with 7 rebounds and 5 assists? thats crazy. They talk more about Carmelo Anthony or other guys, but I see Alex English being the better player. Severely underrated or not that good?

I have to do more research, perhaps he didnt achieve correctly with the Denver Nuggets, he didnt make the Finals one season if im not wrong, but its also true he played in the most difficult and stacked era in the history of basketball. I dont know, im probably looking for some more games and footage of him.

heyhey

08-02-2010, 06:01 AM

1987_Lakers

08-02-2010, 06:07 AM

English was pretty much the Carmelo Anthony of his era. All-Star player, amazing scorer, but never considered to be on the level Magic/Bird/MJ/Kareem/M.Malone. Just like Carmelo isn't on the level of LeBron/Kobe/Wade/Howard/Paul.

momo

08-02-2010, 06:07 AM

He was on the wrong team. Not that good, not that popular, not on tv much ( his team). So he is just not rated at all by a lot of people. If I didn't watch/listen to the lakes back then, I probably would have never seen English at all. But every so often, lakes vs nugs, and it is like "Ohhhh yea, this guy..."

EarlTheGoat

08-02-2010, 06:10 AM

Just shows the lack of talent in the SG-SF position back in the 80s that a dude like English averaged stats of a Lebron James.

He's not that good.

In today's league he would be coming off the bench on more teams than he would start.

Really? I mean, I respect everybody`s opinion but I think you are giving the guy absolutely no credit. I dont agree with the lack of talent argument, they were plenty of nice SG-SF`s in the 80`s, like I said, its the most stacked era in the history of basketball. You have Dr.J playing his game until the mid 80`s, the GOAT SF Larry Bird, you have a very young Charles Barkley starting as a SF with big man playing tendencies, you have a good talented offensive option in James Worthy. And im sure im missing people.

I highly doubt he would come off the bench in any of todays teams, except where Lebron plays.

1987_Lakers

08-02-2010, 06:11 AM

Just shows the lack of talent in the SG-SF position back in the 80s that a dude like English averaged stats of a Lebron James.

He's not that good.

In today's league he would be coming off the bench on more teams than he would start.

Dumb post. Just look at the amazing SFs from the 80's. Bird/Dr.J/Dantley/Wilkins/English/Worthy/Aguirre/Mullin. English wouldn't start in todays NBA? GTFO.

EarlTheGoat

08-02-2010, 06:12 AM

Dumb post. Just look at the amazing SFs from the 80's. Bird/Dr.J/Dantley/Wilkins/English/Worthy/Aguirre/Mullin. English wouldn't start in todays NBA? GTFO.

I knew I was forgetting somebody important, f*cking Dominique Wilkins.

necya

08-02-2010, 06:20 AM

Just shows the lack of talent in the SG-SF position back in the 80s that a dude like English averaged stats of a Lebron James.

He's not that good.

In today's league he would be coming off the bench on more teams than he would start.

the guy is one of the 5 best mid range shooter of all time, if vandeweghe was not traded, they would have been in the WCF all years (then fat lever arrived). he is special cause he was at his best very late, 28-35 years old but never had the team he deserved.

the blade would be an MVP today, schooled every pseudo-star of today.

are you posting this thread cause you discovered him on basketball-reference or do you have already watched the guy?
in all case you are stupid. he is just the best scorer of the 80's...

heyhey

08-02-2010, 06:21 AM

Dumb post. Just look at the amazing SFs from the 80's. Bird/Dr.J/Dantley/Wilkins/English/Worthy/Aguirre/Mullin. English wouldn't start in todays NBA? GTFO.

ask yourself this. Who is a better play Alex English or Lebron James?

Alex English shot 50% averaged 29 with 7 rebounds and 5 assists. That's pretty much Lebron territory. and this was common place in the 80s. Christopher mullin shot 53% for gods sake.

To me that suggest that defense and overall talent was thin in the 80s that player we can PLAINLY see to not be as good as modern day players had GOAT style stats.

necya

08-02-2010, 06:29 AM

oh i didn't see your dumb comment on the forwards of the 80's...they were just the best!!
Dr J, Gervin (1st half of the decade), Bird, Dominique, Mullin, Dantley and Worthy.

can you leave please?

EarlTheGoat

08-02-2010, 06:34 AM

Dr.J, Worthy, English, Bird, Dominique, Gervin, Mullin, young Barkley.

The SF position was f*cking stacked damn, should have grown in the 80s.

dough

08-02-2010, 07:01 AM

Just shows the lack of talent in the SG-SF position back in the 80s that a dude like English averaged stats of a Lebron James.

He's not that good.

In today's league he would be coming off the bench on more teams than he would start.

Didnt you post in another thread that you missed Iverson's prime and started watching nba basketball when Iverson went to Ddenver? How are you talking about 80-'s basketball at all?

chains5000

08-02-2010, 07:05 AM

Didnt you post in another thread that you missed Iverson's prime and started watching nba basketball when Iverson went to Ddenver? How are you talking about 80-'s basketball at all?
Date of Birth:
February 10, 1990
Age:
20

Rizko

08-02-2010, 07:14 AM

I dont really remember saying that, anyway, I stated in my first post, I didnt watch 80s basketball live and Im downloading a lot of old games to see this players, thats why I got impressed when I saw English vs the Lakers in 1985.

Anyway, nice way of missing the point of this thread and trying to fail me in front of everybody. Keep up the good work.
He wasn't talking to you. His statement was a reply to heyhey's post.

Just shows the lack of talent in the SG-SF position back in the 80s that a dude like English averaged stats of a Lebron James.

He's not that good.

In today's league he would be coming off the bench on more teams than he would start.

Didnt you post in another thread that you missed Iverson's prime and started watching nba basketball when Iverson went to Ddenver? How are you talking about 80-'s basketball at all?

dough

08-02-2010, 07:15 AM

Failing you in front of everybody? Seems like you're doing a good job yourself.

EarlTheGoat

08-02-2010, 07:16 AM

He wasn't talking to you. His statement was a reply to heyhey's post.

Yeah nice way of self-failing myself. Thats why I deleted my post.

Anyway I got confused, because im either crazy or stupid, but chains placed by birthdate right there. Not joking.

:roll:

chains5000

08-02-2010, 07:18 AM

Yeah nice way of self-failing myself. Thats why I deleted my post.

Anyway I got confused, because im either crazy or stupid, but chains placed by birthdate right there. Not joking.

:roll:
That's heyhey's birth date

necya

08-02-2010, 07:20 AM

That's heyhey's birth date

so 20 years and nothing in the head...what a bright future...

EarlTheGoat

08-02-2010, 07:21 AM

Apologizes to dough and chains5000.

But my birthday is January 1990, I swear I read that when chains made his post, nice way of self-failing and reading January when February.

Anyway, enough with the off-topic.

Some more thoughts on English?

heyhey

08-02-2010, 07:41 AM

That's heyhey's birth date

that's actually not my bday. Same DAY and year but different month. Neverthless I'll change my privacy setting.

:oldlol: me and Earl are from the same year :cheers:

chains5000

08-02-2010, 07:44 AM

that's actually not my bday. Same DAY and year but different month. Neverthless I'll change my privacy setting.

:oldlol: me and Earl are from the same year :cheers:
So you can pretend you watched the NBA in the 80s?

heyhey

08-02-2010, 07:46 AM

So you can pretend you watched the NBA in the 80s?

I been watching a lot of NBA clips from youtube and dvds and such. I know the 80s of NBA pretty well.

You really think that Alex English would put up that kind of stats today? He's just not athletic enough to dominate in today's game imo.

chains5000

08-02-2010, 07:51 AM

I been watching a lot of NBA clips from youtube and dvds and such. I know the 80s of NBA pretty well.

You really think that Alex English would put up that kind of stats today? He's just not athletic enough to dominate in today's game imo.
It's not all about athleticism.
Also, you gotta judge him in comparison with his same age's opponents IMO.

Rizko

08-02-2010, 07:57 AM

I been watching a lot of NBA clips from youtube and dvds and such. I know the 80s of NBA pretty well.

You really think that Alex English would put up that kind of stats today? He's just not athletic enough to dominate in today's game imo.
The Nuggets played at a really quick pace compared to the Cavs:

[QUOTE=Wiki]Brown left the team in 1979, helping usher in a brief decline in their team's performance. It ended in 1981, when they hired Doug Moe as a head coach. Moe brought with him a "motion offense" philosophy, a style of play focusing on attempting to move the ball until someone got open. Moe was not as considerate to defense as some other coaches. The offense helped the team become highly competitive. During the 1980s, the Nuggets would often score in excess of 115 points a game, and during the 1981

Rizko

08-02-2010, 08:10 AM

In the season that English had 29 ppg, 5 apg and 4 rpg (the year heyhey brought up) the Nuggets had a Pace factor (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#pace) of 106.7, while the Cavs had a factor of 91.4 this year. Thats a big difference between the 2 teams.

If we scaled back English's averages to Lebrons pace he would put up: 24.9 ppg 4.3 apg, 3.44 rpg. Scaling back averages to fit another teams pace isn't the best way to compare players, but it still shows how pace can affect a players stats, and why using stats to judge a player is dubious.

NLZ

08-02-2010, 08:17 AM

He's a Hall of Famer for crying out loud. I'd surely hope he's not "not that good".

Calabis

08-02-2010, 09:40 AM

I been watching a lot of NBA clips from youtube and dvds and such. I know the 80s of NBA pretty well.

You really think that Alex English would put up that kind of stats today? He's just not athletic enough to dominate in today's game imo.

Neither is Dirk, and he doesn't have a problem scoring...wake up dude, he was athletic enough and would score in bunches today, just like he did then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3YoJUeS5jA

Calabis

08-02-2010, 09:42 AM

ProfessorMurder

08-02-2010, 10:26 AM

I love English's shot. It looked so 'off' to me, but was money.

ask yourself this. Who is a better play Alex English or Lebron James?

Alex English shot 50% averaged 29 with 7 rebounds and 5 assists. That's pretty much Lebron territory. and this was common place in the 80s. Christopher mullin shot 53% for gods sake.

To me that suggest that defense and overall talent was thin in the 80s that player we can PLAINLY see to not be as good as modern day players had GOAT style stats.

Why compare him to LeBron? 20 year difference in the game, different styles.

English putting up 28.4/7.3/4.8 on 51.6% in an era with great players, being the highest point scorer of the 80s(yeah the whole f*cking decade), and 8 time all star must mean he sucked.

Chris Mullin was one of the best shooters ever.

I can't even understand your last paragraph.

:facepalm

bizil

01-14-2012, 01:52 AM

Alex English was that deal back in the day! Silky smooth midrange game, slashing, and he could even post up. His all around game was also underrated as well. If anything he's severely underrated. He's arguably at a top 10 GOAT SF of all time or just on the outside. But it seems guys like English, Nique, Bernard King, Aguirre, and Dantley get hated on cause they weren't great all around SF's like Bird, Barry, and Hondo before them. While that may be true, u can't diminish the fact that guys like English and Nique were true alpha dogs. And there is always a premium on alpha dogs.

U can be a great all around player and NOT be an alpha dog. U can be an average to good all around player and STILL be an ALPHA DOG! The bottom line is in both cases u can be a HOFer and all time great. Guys like Stockton, Pippen, and Rodman are great players. Just like guys such as English is a great player too. But greatness comes in different ways. It seems that prolific scorers are often times painted as selfish and team cancers if they aren't great all around players along with it. The 80's SF's such as English, Nique, Doc to an extent, Aguirre, Kiki, Dantley, and King catch this heat more than anybody. But a point forward type player at the SF is a bonus and not to always be expected.