Who will end up with a better career Kobe or Wade?

[G-Funk]

Wade has the opportunity to match Kobe's rings. and Finals MVP. Will he surpass Kobe on the All-times list?

[RazorBaLade]

no he doesnt. what the f

[StacksOnDeck]

Notsureifsrs

[HylianNightmare]

kobe

he has a shot to win 6 or 7 rings

there is no way this miami thing lasts that long

[game3524]

Kobe.

No question about it.

[QuebecBaller]

It's a joke right?

[john_d]

in before some nutjob says wade is already greater than kobe all time

[KB24]

Chris Bosh will be greater than both.

[SourGrapes]

i think kobe will end up with more rings while wade will have slightly better stats, playoffs and regular season... take your pick

[White Chocolate]

Career isn't all stats and Kobe has 5 rings. Wade, in 7 seasons only has 1.

[crisoner]

I agree....Chris Bosh the RuPaul of the NBA will have the better career.

[TylerOO]

Wade has the opportunity to match Kobe's rings. and Finals MVP. Will he surpass Kobe on the All-times list?

I don't think it will be close. Kobe by far.

[opps]

Wade has alot of catching up to do. You're not serious are you?

[Kurosawa0]

I actually think Wade has a chance. His title run in 2006 was more impressive than any single one of Kobe's. If he can play at that same level on a few more title teams, he could surpass Kobe. It's a long shot, but not impossible. Obviously depends on Wade winning a lot in the next few years.

[opps]

I actually think Wade has a chance. His title run in 2006 was more impressive than any single one of Kobe's. If he can play at that same level on a few more title teams, he could surpass Kobe. It's a long shot, but not impossible. Obviously depends on Wade winning a lot in the next few years.

:no:

I dont know if any player outside of Kobe and Jordan has even have had the opportunity to 3peat twice. Thats more impressive than anything Wade as done.

[Jacks3]

Kobe is going down as top 5 ever. Wade will be lucky to crack the top 15. It's not even close. Wade has zero chance.

[Kurosawa0]

:no:

I dont know if any player outside of Kobe and Jordan has even have had the opportunity to 3peat twice. Thats more impressive than anything Wade as done.

Do you want to try reading what I wrote again?

[opps]

Do you want to try reading what I wrote again?

Yeah your point?:lol

[PowerGlove]

Probably Kobe, but who knows?

[Kurosawa0]

Yeah your point?:lol

I didn't say anything about the cumulative championships. I said that Wade's 2006 Title was more spectacular than any SINGLE ONE of Kobe's...

There's a reason that it's not just the amount of rings that matters. It's about how they're won. If it wasn't, Bill Russell would be unquestionably the greatest.

[G-Funk]

Im kinda surprised at the response. But then again I haven't seen a Heat fan on this thread once. That should be a good indication.

[DKLaker]

I said that Wade's 2006 Title was more spectacular than any of Kobe's

:wtf: Why, because they beat that legendary franchise Dallas Mavericks.....the group that Kobe outscored all by himself in 3 quarters 62-61?

The ones with that tradition of winning championships, hall of fame players and retired jerseys hanging in the rafters......oh my bad...that's who KOBE just beat.

So you are really that impressed by beating a Chokewitzki led team that has done nothing before or since. Do you think that Dallas team was better than ANY of the teams Kobe and the Lakers beat in the Finals :facepalm
How the Fk did they let Dallas win the first 2 anyways?

[barbaroi]

No shot. His stats are by far worse and he hasn't won close to as much.

[jrong]

It's a joke right?

Why is it a joke? What if the Heat four-peat, and Wade picks up a couple more Finals MVPs and maybe even a regular season MVP?

It's unlikely that he'll surpass Kobe's place in history. But, it could happen conceivably. For all the noise of people saying they know or don't know what's going to happen, these things will play themselves out on the court.

And it's not as if Wade doesn't have the game so that this discussion is meritless. Young Wade led a post-prime Shaq to a title. So are you honestly going to try to tell me then that young Wade wouldn't have been good enough for prime-Shaq to lead him to three titles???


His stats are by far worse

Want to try that one again? Or should we actually post their stats?

[Foster5k]

If Kobe retired right now, he would still have a better career than Wade.

[Jacks3]

Wade isn't even the best player on his own team. He's already 29 years old. Like I said, zero chance. Kobe could retire right now and Wade wouldn't catch him.

[monkeypox]

Well according to some people on this forum, Kobe barely has one ring to claim for himself. Just barely one ring. While Wade's one ring was so monumental that he deserves credit for two rings. So the real question should be whether or not Kobe can catch Wade.

[SourGrapes]

No shot. His stats are by far worse and he hasn't won close to as much.

?? explain

[crisoner]

Well according to some people on this forum, Kobe barely has one ring to claim for himself. Just barely one ring. While Wade's one ring was so monumental that he deserves credit for two rings. So the real question should be whether or not Kobe can catch Wade.


LOL

[Ikill]

Im kinda surprised at the response. But then again I haven't seen a Heat fan on this thread once. That should be a good indication.
im like the only wade fan

[Ikill]

Wade isn't even the best player on his own team. He's already 29 years old. Like I said, zero chance. Kobe could retire right now and Wade wouldn't catch him.
hes 28 right now

[Papaya Petee]

No shot. His stats are by far worse and he hasn't won close to as much.

?

Wade has better regular season and playoff numbers career wise.

Why can't Wade pass Kobe? If he gets to 5 rings like Kobe, he can definitely pass him.

And some kid said Kobe will finish 3-5 top GOAT, no he won't lol.

[tpols]

?

Wade has better regular season and playoff numbers career wise.

Why can't Wade pass Kobe? If he gets to 5 rings like Kobe, he can definitely pass him.

And some kid said Kobe will finish 3-5 top GOAT, no he won't lol.
wait so you're saying if wade gets 4 more rings he'll move to kobe's range 6-10 in the goat list but acting like kobe can't hit 3-5?:lol

You do realize kobe has a better team than wade, is the best player on his team, and has a better chance at rings over the next few years then wade right?:facepalm

[Mr. Jabbar]

It's a joke right?

beat me to it

[Moan]

Lets not forget wade's age....

[barbaroi]

?

Wade has better regular season and playoff numbers career wise.

Why can't Wade pass Kobe? If he gets to 5 rings like Kobe, he can definitely pass him.

And some kid said Kobe will finish 3-5 top GOAT, no he won't lol.
Kobe entered the league at 18 and didn't get playing time immediately so obviously their career stats are going to be more similar than they should be, but take a look at how their seasons break down:

Wade: 1 season of 28+ ppg, 3 seasons of 5+ rpg, 6 seasons of 6+ apg but also 3 seasons of 4+ TO per game, and a 56.5 career TS%.

Kobe: 5 seasons of 28+ppg, 12 seasons of 5+ rpg, 8 seasons of 5+ apg with one 6+ (in the triangle) with only one season of 4+ TO, and a 55.7 career TS%.

Now for the playoffs:
Wade's top runs -
33/6/7 for 5 games
29/5/5 for 7 games
28/6/6 for 23 games
27/6/7 for 14 games

Kobe's top runs -
33/5/4 for 5 games
32/5/5 for 12 games
30/5/6 for 23 games
30/6/6 for 21 games
29/7/6 for 16 games
29/6/6 for 23 games
28/6/5 for 7 games
27/6/5 for 19 games

So, where in all of this is Wade's supposed better stats than Kobe?

[poido123]

Well Im gonna say Wade, if he wins the same amount of titles Kobe does by end of career, I just feel that Wade is the more complete player, and Kobe support cast has a lot to do with his recent titles, there were times that Kobe nearly singlehandedly lost games for his team through chucking, and also the shit he gets away with off the ball, is absurd, but the league protects bryant, its the way it goes...

[SourGrapes]

Well Im gonna say Wade, if he wins the same amount of titles Kobe does by end of career, I just feel that Wade is the more complete player, and Kobe support cast has a lot to do with his recent titles, there were times that Kobe nearly singlehandedly lost games for his team through chucking, and also the shit he gets away with off the ball, is absurd, but the league protects bryant, its the way it goes...

but lebron, bosh, shaquille won't have had much to do with wade's titles, assuming he wins them?

wade has great stats, but f*ck you if you so casually diminish any of kobe's 5 rings

[amfirst]

I actually think Wade has a chance. His title run in 2006 was more impressive than any single one of Kobe's. If he can play at that same level on a few more title teams, he could surpass Kobe. It's a long shot, but not impossible. Obviously depends on Wade winning a lot in the next few years.


lol are u talking about the Mavs the same team Kobe drop 63 in 3 quarters and beat 90% of the time. :lol

[tpols]

lol are u talking about the Mavs the same team Kobe drop 63 in 3 quarters and beat 90% of the time. :lol
I know. Seriously a lot of people act like wade had a goat finals performance when:

-he was playing against the shittiest defensive finals team of the decade
-he got a ridiculous amount of calls to go his way
-he had a dominant 20/10 shaq

Kobe has had to go against the best defenses of the decade in detroit and boston multiple times, has been playing against the spurs in many of his playoff runs, and has gone up against orlando who was solid.

I would love to see a wade finals performance against a good defense...

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Wade has a great shot at catching Kobe because Wade now has a legit Scottie Pippen to help him win multiple rings.

[The_Yearning]

The only person Kobe should be compared to now is the likes of Magic and Jordan.

Wade? Lol he isn't even higher than LBJ right now in the all time list.

[poido123]

but lebron, bosh, shaquille won't have had much to do with wade's titles, assuming he wins them?

wade has great stats, but f*ck you if you so casually diminish any of kobe's 5 rings

But the one ring that Wade did win was more remarkable than any that Kobe has won, and is something that Kobe could never do, Wade won his championship with an OLD Shaq, not one in his prime, but now that he has some help, I think you could fairly compare the two if both wade and Kobe win the same amount of titles, but lean towards Wade purely because that he won the first title with very little help, very remarkable...And if you want to pull down the Mavs credentials, then you truly didnt have a grasp on how good that team was, and please don't get MAD, I'll just shrug you off like yesterdays news :pimp:

[SinJackal]

Wade will have better career averages, I mean, he already does besides 3t shooting.

He obviously will not get 5 rings though. So he will never be considered above Kobe on the all time list.

[poido123]

The only person Kobe should be compared to now is the likes of Magic and Jordan.

Wade? Lol he isn't even higher than LBJ right now in the all time list.

Delusional. TRY AGAIN

[zORi]

I didn't say anything about the cumulative championships. I said that Wade's 2006 Title was more spectacular than any SINGLE ONE of Kobe's...

There's a reason that it's not just the amount of rings that matters. It's about how they're won. If it wasn't, Bill Russell would be unquestionably the greatest.

Then surely this super friends bullshit has killed his chances?

[poido123]

Wade will have better career averages, I mean, he already does besides 3t shooting.

He obviously will not get 5 rings though. So he will never be considered above Kobe on the all time list.

Even if he got one less than Kobe, he could still be argued to be better, as wade will prove to do more in the finals games than Kobe ever will, chucking is not one of Wade's specialty...

[zORi]

Even if he got one less than Kobe, he could still be argued to be better, as wade will prove to do more in the finals games than Kobe ever will, chucking is not one of Wade's specialty...

What the hell are you talking about?

"Wade will prove to do more in the finals games than Kobe ever will" LOL, I don't even like the Lakers and I think that's retarded.

Kobe is better, and he still has a window to win 4 more or so. Wade's window is closing, considering he's only like 2 and a half years younger than Kobe.

Plus, odds are that he will never win an MVP, now. Let alone lead the league in scoring again. This shouldn't even be an argument.

[tpols]

I really can't believe this is even being discussed:facepalm .

Comparing wade to kobe is like comparing drexler to jordan.

[SinJackal]

Even if he got one less than Kobe, he could still be argued to be better, as wade will prove to do more in the finals games than Kobe ever will, chucking is not one of Wade's specialty...

I guess that's possible, but 3 rings with LBJ/Bosh are not better than 3 with Shaq. Don't forget that.

[jrong]

Then surely this super friends bullshit has killed his chances?

Really? Are we now stipulating that already Bron/Wade > Shaq/Kobe?

Or does the presence of Chris Bosh-- who is in nobody's top 100 list and doubtful that he's even in a top 250 list-- legitimately make that much of a difference?

[barbaroi]

Wade will have better career averages, I mean, he already does besides 3t shooting.

He obviously will not get 5 rings though. So he will never be considered above Kobe on the all time list.
Wade will have better career averages? In what? Assists maybe but averaging 4 TO in the process. Everything else he hasn't got a shot of passing Kobe. He isn't close to the rebounder Kobe is, nor the scorer.

[zORi]

I guess that's possible, but 3 rings with LBJ/Bosh are not better than 3 with Shaq. Don't forget that.

Actually, it's not possible.

This Super-Friends stuff is going to seriously hamper all of their legacies unless they do absolutely remarkable stuff. I fear that LeBron's is already permanently damaged.

[zORi]

Really? Are we now stipulating that already Bron/Wade > Shaq/Kobe?

Or does the presence of Chris Bosh-- who is in nobody's top 100 list and doubtful that he's even in a top 250 list-- legitimately make that much of a difference?

I'm saying it's different because Shaq and Kobe didn't become FA's in their primes and come running to each other.

Also, while Bosh may not be in anyone's top 100 of all time, he is still a top 10 player of right now. Yes, he makes that much of a difference.

[indiefan24]

Even if he got one less than Kobe, he could still be argued to be better, as wade will prove to do more in the finals games than Kobe ever will, chucking is not one of Wade's specialty...

ahh...someone can see into the future huh?

[Bladers]

Do i really have to post the greatness of Kobe bryant again? Come on..

Tell me in any of these section where wade even comes close to kobe... Lebron can't even touch this, Wade will never touch it. Lebron will fail trying.

THE GREATNESS OF KOBE "BEAN" BRYANT!!

5x NBA CHAMPION
(2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)

2x NBA FINALS MVP
(2009, 2010)

NBA MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
(2008)

12x NBA ALL-STAR
(1998, 2000-2010)

8x ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM
(2002-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-NBA SECOND TEAM
(2000, 2001)

2x ALL-NBA THIRD TEAM
(1999, 2005)

11 TOTAL ALL-NBA TEAMS

8x ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM
(2000, 2003-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM
(2001-2002)

10 TOTAL ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM......TIED FOR MOST OF ALL-TIME BY A GUARD


NBA ALL-ROOKIE SECOND TEAM
(1997)

NBA SLAM DUNK CHAMPION
(1997)

NAISMITH PREP PLAYER OF THE YEAR
(1996)

ESPYS BEST NBA PLAYER
(2010)

Total Career Points- 25,790

Career Average- 28ppg 5.3reb 4.7ast 1.5stl

SCORING RAMPAGE
81pts in a game
62pts in three quarters
42pts in 1st half
55pts in 2nd half
30pts in one quarter
12 threes in one game
9 threes without a miss in a game
8 threes in one half
9 straight games with 40pts+
4 straight games with 50pts+
27 games with 40pts+ in a season
10 games with 50pts+ in a season
4th player ever with a 35pt+ season average
5th player ever with a 2800pt+ season
1st player ever to outscore a team through 3 quarters
1st player ever with a 2800pt 180 three season



THE 50+PT GAMES:

Kobe-51pts 8ast 7reb vd GSW 99-00
Kobe-56pts 5ast 4reb vs Mem 00-01
Kobe-51pts 2ast 2reb vs Den 02-03
Kobe-52pts 7ast 8reb vs Hou 02-03
Kobe-55pts 3ast 5reb vs Was 02-03
Kobe-62pts 0ast 8reb vs Dal 05-06
Kobe-50pts 8ast 8reb vs Lac 05-06
Kobe-51pts 4ast 9reb vs Sac 05-06
Kobe-81pts 2ast 5reb vs Tor 05-06
Kobe-51pts 3ast 5reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-50pts 1ast 6reb vs Por 05-06
Kobe-50pts 5ast 8reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-52pts 4ast 4reb vs UTA 06-07
Kobe-53pts 8ast 10reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-58pts 4ast 5reb vs Cha 06-07
Kobe-65pts 3ast 7reb vs Por 06-07
Kobe-50pts 6ast 5reb vs Min 06-07
Kobe-60pts 5ast 3reb vs Mem 06-07
Kobe-50pts 7ast 6reb vs NO 06-07
Kobe-53pts 2ast 2reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-50pts ast 9reb vs Lac 06-07
Kobe-50pts 3ast 8reb vs Sea 06-07
Kobe-52pts 4ast 11reb vs Dal 07-08
Kobe-53pts ast 7reb vs Mem 07-08
Kobe-61pts 3ast 0reb vs Nyk 08-09


KILLER INSTINCT....

List of Kobe's notable game-winners:

1) 05/09/99 - Lakers 101, Rockets 100 (playoffs, game-winning FTs with 5.3 seconds remaining)
2) 12/27/99 - Lakers 108, Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs)
3) 05/10/00 - Lakers 97, Phoenix 96 (playoffs, jumper over Jason Kidd)
4) 11/16/00 - Lakers 112, Kings 110 (game-tying three for OT, OT jumper for win)
5) 02/07/01 - Lakers 85, Phoenix 83 (jumper with 2.7 seconds remaining)
6) 02/13/01 - Lakers 113, Nets 110 (OT game-winning layup with the And-1)
7) 01/02/02 - Lakers 87, Nuggets 86 (offensive reb and jumper)
8) 02/22/02 - Lakers 96, Hornets 94 (first career buzzer-beater, jumper)
9) 03/24/02 - Lakers 97, Kings 96 (fade-away jumper, 36 seconds remaining)
10) 05/12/02 - Lakers 87, Spurs 85 (playoffs, offensive rebound and put-back)
11) 12/06/02 - Lakers 105, Mavericks 103 (28-point game comeback, spin-around jumper)
12) 04/04/03 - Lakers 102, Grizzlies 101 (buzzer-beater, jumper)
13) 04/06/03 - Lakers 115, Suns 113 (GW jumper with 28.6 seconds remaining)
14) 12/19/03 - Lakers 101, Nuggets 99 (game after the trial, buzzer-beating fade-away)
15) 02/17/04 - Lakers 89, Blazers 86 (layup and the foul)
16) 03/21/04 - Lakers 104, Bucks 103 (OT jumper with 25 seconds remaining)
17) 04/14/04 - Lakers 105, Blazers 104 (game-tying three for OT, OT GW buzzer-beating three)
18) 03/13/05 - Lakers 117, Bobcats 116 (pump fake jumper for the win)
19) 11/02/05 - Lakers 99, Nuggets 97 (OT jumper after the Kwame brick)
20) 12/04/05 - Lakers 99, Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs)
21) 01/12/06 - Lakers 99, Cavaliers 98 (jumper against Lebron with 8 seconds to go)
22) 04/30/06 - Lakers 99, Suns 98 (playoffs, game-tying tear drop for OT, and OT game-winning jumper)
23) 01/14/08 - Lakers 123, Sonics 121 (OT game-winning jumper)
24) 01/09/09 - Lakers 121, Pacers 119 (jumper against Jarrett Jack with 3 seconds to go)
25) 12/04/09 - Lakers 108, Heat 107 (game-winning buzzer-beating three over Wade)
26) 12/16/09 - Lakers 107, Bucks 106 (game-winning buzzer-beating jumper over Bell)
27) 01/01/10 - Lakers 109, Kings 108 (game-winning buzzer-beating three, 4.1 seconds left and 0.1 remaining)
28) 01/13/10 - Lakers 100, Mavericks 95 (game-winning jumper with 28.9 seconds remaining)
29) 01/31/10 - Lakers 90, Celtics 89 (game-winning jumper with 7 secs remaining)
30) 02/23/10 - Lakers 99, Grizzlies 98 (game-winning jumper with 4.3 seconds remaining)
31) 03/10/10 - Lakers 109, Raptors 107 (game-winning fade-away with 1.9 seconds remaining)

TOTAL CAREER PLAYOFF POINTS LIST TOP 10:
1.Michael Jordan* 5987
2.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 5762
3.Shaquille O'Neal 5121
4.Karl Malone 4761
5.Jerry West* 4457
6.Kobe Bryant* 4381
7.Larry Bird* 3897
8.John Havlicek* 3776
9.Hakeem Olajuwon* 3755
10.Tim Duncan 3724



Why Keep bringing up this Agenda BS?

[tpols]

Really? Are we now stipulating that already Bron/Wade > Shaq/Kobe?

Or does the presence of Chris Bosh-- who is in nobody's top 100 list and doubtful that he's even in a top 250 list-- legitimately make that much of a difference?
because being in a top 100 list has ANYTHING to do with quality of teammates right now.

Was pippen in the top 100 when he first joined jordan?

Was Pau gasol in the top 100 before he joined kobe?

Bosh is a top 3 pf in the game right now and the best pf in the eastern conference. Stop trying to underrate bosh to promote wade.

[SinJackal]

Wade will have better career averages? In what? Assists maybe but averaging 4 TO in the process. Everything else he hasn't got a shot of passing Kobe. He isn't close to the rebounder Kobe is, nor the scorer.

Wade already has better career averages in: Points, assists (by far), FG% (by far), Blocks (by far), and steals.

Kobe is slightly higher in rebounds, 3pt shooting, and much better in free throw shooting.

Most people don't look at 3pt/ft%, so to most, Kobe only appears to be slightly ahead in one stat, while Wade's ahead in 5 of the 6 major stats already. One could argue they expect Wade's scoring to go down with LBJ on the team, which is legitmate. He may end up less than Kobe in the end, but right now he's above.

[poido123]

Do i really have to post the greatness of Kobe bryant again? Come on..

Tell me in any of these section where wade even comes close to kobe... Lebron can't even touch this, Wade will never touch it. Lebron will fail trying.

THE GREATNESS OF KOBE "BEAN" BRYANT!!

5x NBA CHAMPION
(2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)

2x NBA FINALS MVP
(2009, 2010)

NBA MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
(2008)

12x NBA ALL-STAR
(1998, 2000-2010)

8x ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM
(2002-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-NBA SECOND TEAM
(2000, 2001)

2x ALL-NBA THIRD TEAM
(1999, 2005)

11 TOTAL ALL-NBA TEAMS

8x ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM
(2000, 2003-2004, 2006-2010)

2x ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM
(2001-2002)

10 TOTAL ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM......TIED FOR MOST OF ALL-TIME BY A GUARD


NBA ALL-ROOKIE SECOND TEAM
(1997)

NBA SLAM DUNK CHAMPION
(1997)

NAISMITH PREP PLAYER OF THE YEAR
(1996)

ESPYS BEST NBA PLAYER
(2010)

Total Career Points- 25,790

Career Average- 28ppg 5.3reb 4.7ast 1.5stl

SCORING RAMPAGE
81pts in a game
62pts in three quarters
42pts in 1st half
55pts in 2nd half
30pts in one quarter
12 threes in one game
9 threes without a miss in a game
8 threes in one half
9 straight games with 40pts+
4 straight games with 50pts+
27 games with 40pts+ in a season
10 games with 50pts+ in a season
4th player ever with a 35pt+ season average
5th player ever with a 2800pt+ season
1st player ever to outscore a team through 3 quarters
1st player ever with a 2800pt 180 three season



THE 50+PT GAMES:

Kobe-51pts 8ast 7reb vd GSW 99-00
Kobe-56pts 5ast 4reb vs Mem 00-01
Kobe-51pts 2ast 2reb vs Den 02-03
Kobe-52pts 7ast 8reb vs Hou 02-03
Kobe-55pts 3ast 5reb vs Was 02-03
Kobe-62pts 0ast 8reb vs Dal 05-06
Kobe-50pts 8ast 8reb vs Lac 05-06
Kobe-51pts 4ast 9reb vs Sac 05-06
Kobe-81pts 2ast 5reb vs Tor 05-06
Kobe-51pts 3ast 5reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-50pts 1ast 6reb vs Por 05-06
Kobe-50pts 5ast 8reb vs Pho 05-06
Kobe-52pts 4ast 4reb vs UTA 06-07
Kobe-53pts 8ast 10reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-58pts 4ast 5reb vs Cha 06-07
Kobe-65pts 3ast 7reb vs Por 06-07
Kobe-50pts 6ast 5reb vs Min 06-07
Kobe-60pts 5ast 3reb vs Mem 06-07
Kobe-50pts 7ast 6reb vs NO 06-07
Kobe-53pts 2ast 2reb vs Hou 06-07
Kobe-50pts ast 9reb vs Lac 06-07
Kobe-50pts 3ast 8reb vs Sea 06-07
Kobe-52pts 4ast 11reb vs Dal 07-08
Kobe-53pts ast 7reb vs Mem 07-08
Kobe-61pts 3ast 0reb vs Nyk 08-09


KILLER INSTINCT....

List of Kobe's notable game-winners:

1) 05/09/99 - Lakers 101, Rockets 100 (playoffs, game-winning FTs with 5.3 seconds remaining)
2) 12/27/99 - Lakers 108, Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs)
3) 05/10/00 - Lakers 97, Phoenix 96 (playoffs, jumper over Jason Kidd)
4) 11/16/00 - Lakers 112, Kings 110 (game-tying three for OT, OT jumper for win)
5) 02/07/01 - Lakers 85, Phoenix 83 (jumper with 2.7 seconds remaining)
6) 02/13/01 - Lakers 113, Nets 110 (OT game-winning layup with the And-1)
7) 01/02/02 - Lakers 87, Nuggets 86 (offensive reb and jumper)
8) 02/22/02 - Lakers 96, Hornets 94 (first career buzzer-beater, jumper)
9) 03/24/02 - Lakers 97, Kings 96 (fade-away jumper, 36 seconds remaining)
10) 05/12/02 - Lakers 87, Spurs 85 (playoffs, offensive rebound and put-back)
11) 12/06/02 - Lakers 105, Mavericks 103 (28-point game comeback, spin-around jumper)
12) 04/04/03 - Lakers 102, Grizzlies 101 (buzzer-beater, jumper)
13) 04/06/03 - Lakers 115, Suns 113 (GW jumper with 28.6 seconds remaining)
14) 12/19/03 - Lakers 101, Nuggets 99 (game after the trial, buzzer-beating fade-away)
15) 02/17/04 - Lakers 89, Blazers 86 (layup and the foul)
16) 03/21/04 - Lakers 104, Bucks 103 (OT jumper with 25 seconds remaining)
17) 04/14/04 - Lakers 105, Blazers 104 (game-tying three for OT, OT GW buzzer-beating three)
18) 03/13/05 - Lakers 117, Bobcats 116 (pump fake jumper for the win)
19) 11/02/05 - Lakers 99, Nuggets 97 (OT jumper after the Kwame brick)
20) 12/04/05 - Lakers 99, Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs)
21) 01/12/06 - Lakers 99, Cavaliers 98 (jumper against Lebron with 8 seconds to go)
22) 04/30/06 - Lakers 99, Suns 98 (playoffs, game-tying tear drop for OT, and OT game-winning jumper)
23) 01/14/08 - Lakers 123, Sonics 121 (OT game-winning jumper)
24) 01/09/09 - Lakers 121, Pacers 119 (jumper against Jarrett Jack with 3 seconds to go)
25) 12/04/09 - Lakers 108, Heat 107 (game-winning buzzer-beating three over Wade)
26) 12/16/09 - Lakers 107, Bucks 106 (game-winning buzzer-beating jumper over Bell)
27) 01/01/10 - Lakers 109, Kings 108 (game-winning buzzer-beating three, 4.1 seconds left and 0.1 remaining)
28) 01/13/10 - Lakers 100, Mavericks 95 (game-winning jumper with 28.9 seconds remaining)
29) 01/31/10 - Lakers 90, Celtics 89 (game-winning jumper with 7 secs remaining)
30) 02/23/10 - Lakers 99, Grizzlies 98 (game-winning jumper with 4.3 seconds remaining)
31) 03/10/10 - Lakers 109, Raptors 107 (game-winning fade-away with 1.9 seconds remaining)

TOTAL CAREER PLAYOFF POINTS LIST TOP 10:
1.Michael Jordan* 5987
2.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 5762
3.Shaquille O'Neal 5121
4.Karl Malone 4761
5.Jerry West* 4457
6.Kobe Bryant* 4381
7.Larry Bird* 3897
8.John Havlicek* 3776
9.Hakeem Olajuwon* 3755
10.Tim Duncan 3724



Why Keep bringing up this Agenda BS?

Because i dont agree Kobe's legacy will be better than wade's doesn't mean I have an agenda, and Im clearly pointing out IF Wade wins as many or one less title than Kobe as an example... Kobe's points are less remarkable considering that the volume of shots he's taken to get them is what really stands out, yes he is a good player, but alot of his success and statistics come down to volume of shots, and players/coach that he has had...His finals performances arent that good either, that where true great players are proven...

[zORi]

Wade already has better career averages in: Points, assists (by far), FG% (by far), Blocks (by far), and steals.

Kobe is slightly higher in rebounds, 3pt shooting, and much better in free throw shooting.

Most people don't look at 3pt/ft%, so to most, Kobe only appears to be slightly ahead in one stat, while Wade's ahead in 5 of the 6 major stats already. One could argue they expect Wade's scoring to go down with LBJ on the team, which is legitmate. He may end up less than Kobe in the end, but right now he's above.

Part of that is because when Kobe came in, he was straight out of high school and on the bench. Not to mention he has been playing twice as many years as Wade.

Let's compare in 7 more years. Because all of his stats are going to start declining, now.

[Papaya Petee]

Kobe entered the league at 18 and didn't get playing time immediately so obviously their career stats are going to be more similar than they should be, but take a look at how their seasons break down:

Wade: 1 season of 28+ ppg, 3 seasons of 5+ rpg, 6 seasons of 6+ apg but also 3 seasons of 4+ TO per game, and a 56.5 career TS%.

Kobe: 5 seasons of 28+ppg, 12 seasons of 5+ rpg, 8 seasons of 5+ apg with one 6+ (in the triangle) with only one season of 4+ TO, and a 55.7 career TS%.

Now for the playoffs:
Wade's top runs -
33/6/7 for 5 games
29/5/5 for 7 games
28/6/6 for 23 games
27/6/7 for 14 games

Kobe's top runs -
33/5/4 for 5 games
32/5/5 for 12 games
30/5/6 for 23 games
30/6/6 for 21 games
29/7/6 for 16 games
29/6/6 for 23 games
28/6/5 for 7 games
27/6/5 for 19 games

So, where in all of this is Wade's supposed better stats than Kobe?


I love how you filter those stats to favor Kobe.

So you're gonna bash Wade because Kobe wasn't a star right away in his first 2-3 years, and Wade was a Star right off the bat, that's his problem, should of went to college.

Wade career- 25.5\7\5\2\1 48%
Kobe career 25\5\5\1\.5 46%


Wade playoffs- 26\6\6\2\1 48%
Kobe playoffs 25.5\5\5\1.5\1 45%

^^ Stats don't lie brother. (www.nba.com)

Wade assists- 6+ 6 times
Kobe assists - 6+ 0 times

Wade assists- 7+ 2 times
Kobe assists 7+ 0 times

Wade is a better play maker then Kobe, no matter how you look at it.

Wade in the NBA FINALS 34\8\4\2\1 46%

Kobe in the NBA FINALS 25\5\5\2\1 45%

If you want to, give me Kobe's best Finals Performance and compare it to Wade's, but it's still not as good.

Yes, Kobe is more impressive by a good amount right now, but Wade will play 5+ more seasons in the NBA when Kobe will retire. Don't act like it's impossible to catch Kobe, especially when Wade now can possibly win 4-5 more rings.

[tpols]

Wade already has better career averages in: Points, assists (by far), FG% (by far), Blocks (by far), and steals.

Kobe is slightly higher in rebounds, 3pt shooting, and much better in free throw shooting.

Most people don't look at 3pt/ft%, so to most, Kobe only appears to be slightly ahead in one stat, while Wade's ahead in 5 of the 6 major stats already. One could argue they expect Wade's scoring to go down with LBJ on the team, which is legitmate. He may end up less than Kobe in the end, but right now he's above.
career averages? Because kobe averaged less than 20 in his first three years.:facepalm

Kobe has had 2 seasons of 30+ppg and one of 35+. Wade just made one 30 point season and will have no more. Kobe also wrecks wade as a shooter.

Wade is a better passer.

Kobe is better in rebounding. Kobe actually averages more despite playing on a team with more size. He has cracked 6 rpg for a season 3 times and wade has never sniffed that.

Kobe and wade are equal on defense. Wade is a little quicker but kobe is longer and they both can play lock down D.

So kobe is a better scorer, and a better rebounder and wade is a better passer. I think I'll take the first one.:confusedshrug:

[zORi]

I love how you filter those stats to favor Kobe.

So you're gonna bash Wade because Kobe wasn't a star right away in his first 2-3 years, and Wade was a Star right off the bat, that's his problem, should of went to college.

Wade career- 25.5\7\5\2\1 48%
Kobe career 25\5\5\1\.5 46%


Wade playoffs- 26\6\6\2\1 48%
Kobe playoffs 25.5\5\5\1.5\1 45%

^^ Stats don't lie brother. (www.nba.com)

Wade assists- 6+ 6 times
Kobe assists - 6+ 0 times

Wade assists- 7+ 2 times
Kobe assists 7+ 0 times

Wade is a better play maker then Kobe, no matter how you look at it.

Wade in the NBA FINALS 34\8\4\2\1 46%

Kobe in the NBA FINALS 25\5\5\2\1 45%

If you want to, give me Kobe's best Finals Performance and compare it to Wade's, but it's still not as good.

Yes, Kobe is more impressive by a good amount right now, but Wade will play 5+ more seasons in the NBA when Kobe will retire. Don't act like it's impossible to catch Kobe, especially when Wade now can possibly win 4-5 more rings.

You think he's still going to be scoring that much now?

From how it sounds, he won't even be handling the ball as much as LeBron.

[Papaya Petee]

You think he's still going to be scoring that much now?

From how it sounds, he won't even be handling the ball as much as LeBron.
Wade will still put up 25\5\5 48-50% without a doubt in my mind.

[Wukillabeez78]

Well Im gonna say Wade, if he wins the same amount of titles Kobe does by end of career, I just feel that Wade is the more complete player, and Kobe support cast has a lot to do with his recent titles, there were times that Kobe nearly singlehandedly lost games for his team through chucking, and also the shit he gets away with off the ball, is absurd, but the league protects bryant, its the way it goes...

Wade a more complete player than Kobe? Defensively their really isn't any difference (when Kobe was younger he used to guard the opposing teams best perimeter player and shut them down). Kobe doesn't guard the best perimeter players anymore (similar to how Jordan didn't when he hit his 30s, that was Pippen/Harper's job) but can still do so if needed or motivated. Wade is still a good defender but will probably slow down as well on that end soon (like all perimeter defenders do). Offensively though Kobe is still superior to Wade and probably always will be. Kobe doesn't attack the basket as much as he used to 5-8 years ago but he's still a better shooter than Wade. If you look at both players at their peak each could get to the basket and finish but Wade wasn't going to hit 12 three pointers on you in one game (like Kobe did) or shoot better much better than 30% from three point range (his career best percentage is only 31% and his career avg percentage wise is a paltry 28.9%). Kobe has shot as high as 38% from three point land in a season (on many more 3 pt shot attempts than Wade) and has a solid career percentage of 34%. At their peaks both were great at creating their own shots and getting to the basket/free throw line. However, Kobe was and still is the more accurate shooter. Wade doesn't even take as many threes or perimeter shots period because that part of his game isn't as developed. That's why he's such a crash and burn type player, on almost every play he wants to take it to the rim and dunk because he doesn't have as much confidence in his jumper. Kobe has that mentality of an uncontested (and even a lot of contested jumpers) are layups for him and this is why he's much more of a threat offensively than Wade. You have to guard him much farther away from the basket than you do Wade. Rebounding is a wash (Kobe 5.3 for is career while Wade is at 4.9). Wade is the better passer (or less selfish) and averages 6.6 assists a game to Kobe's 4.7. They are really pretty similar players though with similar skill sets. The main difference to me is that Kobe is the better perimeter scorer and this makes the game easier for him and easier on his body. Last year was Kobe's 14th in the league and he averaged over 27 pts a game along with 5 rebounds and 5 assists. Will Wade be scoring 27 pts a game in his 14th season when he slows down with lesser perimeter game? I don't think so...

[tpols]

I love how you filter those stats to favor Kobe.

So you're gonna bash Wade because Kobe wasn't a star right away in his first 2-3 years, and Wade was a Star right off the bat, that's his problem, should of went to college.

Wade career- 25.5\7\5\2\1 48%
Kobe career 25\5\5\1\.5 46%


Wade playoffs- 26\6\6\2\1 48%
Kobe playoffs 25.5\5\5\1.5\1 45%

^^ Stats don't lie brother. (www.nba.com)

Wade assists- 6+ 6 times
Kobe assists - 6+ 0 times

Wade assists- 7+ 2 times
Kobe assists 7+ 0 times

Wade is a better play maker then Kobe, no matter how you look at it.

Wade in the NBA FINALS 34\8\4\2\1 46%

Kobe in the NBA FINALS 25\5\5\2\1 45%

If you want to, give me Kobe's best Finals Performance and compare it to Wade's, but it's still not as good.

Yes, Kobe is more impressive by a good amount right now, but Wade will play 5+ more seasons in the NBA when Kobe will retire. Don't act like it's impossible to catch Kobe, especially when Wade now can possibly win 4-5 more rings.
lol wade beat kobe by 1% when he played against the worst defensive finals team OF THE DECADE.

Put wade up against boston and detroit in the finals a few times and you'll see his averages drop which would mean he'd be BELOW kobe. Can you really argue that wade wouldn't have shot worse against boston or detroit?

[Quickz]

Kobe by far, and I'm not a laker fan or a miami/wade hater..career achievements plus rings together should tell you who the better player was.

Kobe has...

2 finals mvp's
Regular season MVP
8 first team selections....2 second
8 First defensive team selections....2 second
5 rings...and went to the finals 7 times which counts for something.
A 35 and a 31 ppg average (yes his team was shitty but wade and been on very shitty teams too and couldnt do this)...but either way he won the scoring awards both years
Dunk contest, 3 all-star game mvp's

At this point theres soo much kobe has done and with there age being similar I just dont see wade coming close to many of kobes career achievements. Kobe will continue to be just as good as wade for atleast the next 2-3 imo. Which makes wade 31 or 32 with a couple more years left in him.

Wade will never lead the league in scoring, he has only 2 All-nba 1st teams so if he gets 6 more of those and kobe has none they will be tied (dont see this happening)....he has never been on the all-nba defensive 1st team...and I know he'll never win a regular season MVP playing with lebron james.

Sorry for the long post, I honestly think it's insulting to Kobe's body of work to be compared to Wade Career wise.

[indiefan24]

From how it sounds, he won't even be handling the ball as much as LeBron.

It will definitely be interesting to see how their chemistry develops. Unless one takes the primary ball handling duties, both of their assist total will drop.

[zORi]

Wade will still put up 25\5\5 48-50% without a doubt in my mind.

What do you think LeBron's averages will be?

[Papaya Petee]

career averages? Because kobe averaged less than 20 in his first three years.:facepalm

Kobe has had 2 seasons of 30+ppg and one of 35+. Wade just made one 30 point season and will have no more. Kobe also wrecks wade as a shooter.

Wade is a better passer.

Kobe is better in rebounding. Kobe actually averages more despite playing on a team with more size. He has cracked 6 rpg for a season 3 times and wade has never sniffed that.

Kobe and wade are equal on defense. Wade is a little quicker but kobe is longer and they both can play lock down D.

So kobe is a better scorer, and a better rebounder and wade is a better passer. I think I'll take the first one.:confusedshrug:

Career wise- Kobe 5.3 RPG 1.2 ORPG
Career wise- Wade 4.9 RPG 1.4 ORPG

At best they are equal rebounders. Wade averages more offensive rebounds and he's 2 inchest shorter. Ask ShaqAttack, one of the best posters on ISH, about rebounds, and see how much more important are the offensive ones.

[Papaya Petee]

What do you think LeBron's averages will be?
About 23\8\7 on 48-52%

[Papaya Petee]

lol wade beat kobe by 1% when he played against the worst defensive finals team OF THE DECADE.

Put wade up against boston and detroit in the finals a few times and you'll see his averages drop which would mean he'd be BELOW kobe. Can you really argue that wade wouldn't have shot worse against boston or detroit?


Wade vs Boston 33.2 PPG 6.8 APG 5.6 RPG 2.2 SPG 1.5 BPG 56% FG 40% FT

Really?

[Bladers]

16.2
24.1
27.2
27.4
24.6
30.2
26.6


lol at that being the fact that he has a better scoring average than Kobe...
Now that Lebron and bosh is in his team, Wade won't even sniff 23 points a game...
While kobe will still be scoring 27-30 pts a game

[barbaroi]

Wade already has better career averages in: Points, assists (by far), FG% (by far), Blocks (by far), and steals.

Kobe is slightly higher in rebounds, 3pt shooting, and much better in free throw shooting.

Most people don't look at 3pt/ft%, so to most, Kobe only appears to be slightly ahead in one stat, while Wade's ahead in 5 of the 6 major stats already. One could argue they expect Wade's scoring to go down with LBJ on the team, which is legitmate. He may end up less than Kobe in the end, but right now he's above.
Please let's not fool ourselves. Wade entered the league at 22 after 4 years of college. Kobe since age 22 is averaging 28.5/5.8/5.3 with 3.1 TO. Wade in his career 25.4/4.9/6.6 with 3.7 TO. He's not close to the player Kobe is. He has one season of 28+ ppg. One! 3 seasons of 5+ rpg while kobe has 12 seasons of 5+ and 3 of 6+. And his assist to turnover ratio is 1.78 to Kobe's 1.71, what a wopping advantage for wade :rolleyes: . He simply doesn't have better stats.

[tpols]

Career wise- Kobe 5.3 RPG 1.2 ORPG
Career wise- Wade 4.9 RPG 1.4 ORPG

At best they are equal rebounders. Wade averages more offensive rebounds and he's 2 inchest shorter. Ask ShaqAttack, one of the best posters on ISH, about rebounds, and see how much more important are the offensive ones.
so averaging .2 more offensive boards makes him better:facepalm

Kobe is taller than wade. So what? Thats why hes the better rebounder :hammerhead:

Kobe has had way better rebounding seasons than wade. The stats show it. The games show it. There's no evidence to dispute it.

[game3524]

Wade won't have higher career stats then Kobe, Wade to me is a 10-12 year player given his style of play.

[tpols]

Wade vs Boston 33.2 PPG 6.8 APG 5.6 RPG 2.2 SPG 1.5 BPG 56% FG 40% FT

Really?
oh in the first round pretty much sweep?:facepalm

Lets see him face a finals boston team. The intensity changes.

[opps]

I didn't say anything about the cumulative championships. I said that Wade's 2006 Title was more spectacular than any SINGLE ONE of Kobe's...

There's a reason that it's not just the amount of rings that matters. It's about how they're won. If it wasn't, Bill Russell would be unquestionably the greatest.

Seems like the other posters got to your dumba** before I could.

& you dont see anything impressive about going 16-1 in the playoffs,
constantly beating the top teams in the West over and over again (Spurs,Kings,Blazers)
redeeming yourself immediately after losing a championship (2009)
& then going on to beat the team that beat you (2010)

we dont believe you,you need more people.

[barbaroi]

Career wise- Kobe 5.3 RPG 1.2 ORPG
Career wise- Wade 4.9 RPG 1.4 ORPG

At best they are equal rebounders. Wade averages more offensive rebounds and he's 2 inchest shorter. Ask ShaqAttack, one of the best posters on ISH, about rebounds, and see how much more important are the offensive ones.
Please. Kobe since 22 has averaged 5.76 rpg, 12 consecutive seasons of 5+ rpg including 3 of 6+. Wade has a wopping total of 3 5+ rpg seasons, with an average of 4.9.

[SinJackal]

Please let's not fool ourselves. Wade entered the league at 22 after 4 years of college. Kobe since age 22 is averaging 28.5/5.8/5.3 with 3.1 TO. Wade in his career 25.4/4.9/6.6 with 3.7 TO. He's not close to the player Kobe is. He has one season of 28+ ppg. One! 3 seasons of 5+ rpg while kobe has 12 seasons of 5+ and 3 of 6+. And his assist to turnover ratio is 1.78 to Kobe's 1.71, what a wopping advantage for wade :rolleyes: . He simply doesn't have better stats.

Of course Kobe has more seasons of higher stats, since he has twice as many seasons under his belt including his entire prime. Not a good point.

And you use "28+" since he's had 26.6-30.2 in each of his last five seasons. Point averages, which are higher than Kobe's career average.

So my original point stands. D Wade will have better career averages than Kobe. You can be upset about that because of when Kobe started, but that was his choice. It counts against his season averages, and that's never going to change. It's what happens when you don't even go to college and try to make an early money grab.

[tpols]

Of course Kobe has more seasons of higher stats, since he has twice as many seasons under his belt including his entire prime. Not a good point.

And you use "28+" since he's had 26.6-30.2 in each of his last five seasons. Point averages, which are higher than Kobe's career average.

So my original point stands. D Wade will have better career averages than Kobe. You can be upset about that because of when Kobe started, but that was his choice. It counts against his season averages, and that's never going to change. It's what happens when you don't even go to college and try to make an early money grab.
really? even with lebron and bosh on his team? You do realize he's not getting over 25 a game this season and his scoring averages are going to drop until he retires/regresses which will only take a good 4 years while kobe will still put up over 25 a game for the next couple seasons right?

[game3524]

Of course Kobe has more seasons of higher stats, since he has twice as many seasons under his belt including his entire prime. Not a good point.

And you use "28+" since he's had 26.6-30.2 in each of his last five seasons. Point averages, which are higher than Kobe's career average.

So my original point stands. D Wade will have better career averages than Kobe. You can be upset about that because of when Kobe started, but that was his choice. It counts against his season averages, and that's never going to change. It's what happens when you don't even go to college and try to make an early money grab.

Chances are he won't, Wade ppg average is 25.4, Kobe is 25.3. Wade is not the kinda of player who will be playing at a high level into his 30's like Bryant has.

His career averages are going to go down.

[laronprofit9]

Kobe slightly better scorer and rebounder.
Wade slightly better playmaker.

Wade's game is more athleticism based. He plays the game like Allen Iverson in his prime, but more efficient.
Kobe's game is more skilled based. He plays the game like a 96-98 MJ, slightly less efficient.

I think Kobe will have better longevity in his career. I could see Wade breaking down harder than Kobe when he reaches Kobe's age, because of his reckless style of play.

Unless, Wade is willing to develop a face-up game, a post game, and score the majority of his points off jump shots from those positions like Kobe.

Remember young Kobe was able to blow by people at will. Then his knees gave in, and developed arguably the best mid-range jumpshot in the game.

Wade is a good mid-range jump shooter, but when he gets older people will play on him tighter like a stray-jacket. Can Wade make the contested jumpshots, that Kobe can?

Wade's jumpers are under much less-duress than Kobe's because the defenders are more worried about him driving by you. Kobe constantly has someone strapped on him body to body and that is how he takes his jumpshots. Mainly due to his older age and loss of explosiveness. When Wade gets older he needs to be able to polish his game like Kobe.

Problem for him, Wade is already 29, Kobe mastered the mid-range jumper at 27.

[SinJackal]

really? even with lebron and bosh on his team? You do realize he's not getting over 25 a game this season and his scoring averages are going to drop until he retires/regresses which will only take a good 4 years while kobe will still put up over 25 a game for the next couple seasons right?

I already addressed that. I don't think Wade's scoring is going to drop below Kobe's career average even with LeBron.

I agree Kobe's going to put up 25+ a game over the next 2-3 seasons though, for sure he will. But do you think he's not going to stick around to try and rack up points even when he is out of his prime? That's going to drop his averages too. Not by much, but enough to make it easier for Wade. Wade's also almost guaranteed to average more in assists and blocks, since there isn't much competition in that category from Kobe. His steals might drop to around what Kobe's are if he slacks on D', which is entirely possible. But the points I think are going to be similar, if not in favor of Wade slightly.

And btw, I think Bosh is the one who's going to take the big scoring hit. When this team was originally put together, it was nearly consensus that Wade was the one player who's scoring wouldn't drop much. People's opinions change, but I feel the same way. Wade's going to average at least 25.5 a game, even with those guys. He's never going to get doubled either, so should have those points on less shots than last year.

[barbaroi]

Of course Kobe has more seasons of higher stats, since he has twice as many seasons under his belt including his entire prime. Not a good point.

And you use "28+" since he's had 26.6-30.2 in each of his last five seasons. Point averages, which are higher than Kobe's career average.

So my original point stands. D Wade will have better career averages than Kobe. You can be upset about that because of when Kobe started, but that was his choice. It counts against his season averages, and that's never going to change. It's what happens when you don't even go to college and try to make an early money grab.
Cut it off at 27 if you like: 3 seasons of 27+ for wade, 7 for Kobe.
Cut it off at 25 if you like: 4 for wade, 9 for Kobe.

No matter which way you slice it Wade isn't going to touch Kobe's peak. It's not like Wade is way younger than Kobe. He's 3 years behind, but he has far more than 3 seasons of Kobe-like performances to make up.

[jrong]

I'm saying it's different because Shaq and Kobe didn't become FA's in their primes and come running to each other.

Also, while Bosh may not be in anyone's top 100 of all time, he is still a top 10 player of right now. Yes, he makes that much of a difference.

Bosh is top 10 now? Who are you taking off this list for Bosh?

Bryant/ Wade/ James/ Paul/ Howard/ Durant/ Dirk/ Duncan/ Melo/ Roy

And just outside the top 10, we also have Pierce, Gasol, etc.

What Bosh has shown so far is that he can put up good stats on bad teams but not make bad teams competitive.

[RazorBaLade]

Kobe entered the league at 18 and didn't get playing time immediately so obviously their career stats are going to be more similar than they should be, but take a look at how their seasons break down:

Wade: 1 season of 28+ ppg, 3 seasons of 5+ rpg, 6 seasons of 6+ apg but also 3 seasons of 4+ TO per game, and a 56.5 career TS%.

Kobe: 5 seasons of 28+ppg, 12 seasons of 5+ rpg, 8 seasons of 5+ apg with one 6+ (in the triangle) with only one season of 4+ TO, and a 55.7 career TS%.

Now for the playoffs:
Wade's top runs -
33/6/7 for 5 games
29/5/5 for 7 games
28/6/6 for 23 games
27/6/7 for 14 games

Kobe's top runs -
33/5/4 for 5 games
32/5/5 for 12 games
30/5/6 for 23 games
30/6/6 for 21 games
29/7/6 for 16 games
29/6/6 for 23 games
28/6/5 for 7 games
27/6/5 for 19 games

So, where in all of this is Wade's supposed better stats than Kobe?

gg

[indiefan24]

He's never going to get doubled either, so should have those points on less shots than last year.

I feel like the best way to attack this Miami team is to pretty much focus the entire defense on LeBron/Wade and take your chances with Bosh. You can always stick a hard-nosed big man on Bosh and hope to push him out.

[RazorBaLade]

Bosh is top 10 now? Who are you taking off this list for Bosh?

Bryant/ Wade/ James/ Paul/ Howard/ Durant/ Dirk/ Duncan/ Melo/ Roy

And just outside the top 10, we also have Pierce, Gasol, etc.

What Bosh has shown so far is that he can put up good stats on bad teams but not make bad teams competitive.

duncan is 50

[Allstar24]

Don't people get sick of repeating the same garbage over and over again?

[indiefan24]

No matter which way you slice it Wade isn't going to touch Kobe's peak.

As you said, in terms of peak Wade doesn't touch Kobe scoring-wise, but I think he has a great chance when it comes to career averages.

[laronprofit9]

Sorry, but the reason why Kobe is still good is because of his work ethic.

D-Wade doesn't have the same work ethic that Kobe does. He gets by more with his raw athleticism than Kobe does.

Watch a 27 year old Kobe(2005-2006) to a 28 year old D-Wade(2009-2010).
Who's game looked more polished and skilled? Who had better footwork? Who had a better jumpshot? Who utilized shot fakes better?

I think you would probably know what the answer is.

In terms of development of skills, Kobe is far beyond Wade age for age. Wade relies a lot more on his athleticism than Kobe does.

[barbaroi]

As you said, in terms of peak Wade doesn't touch Kobe scoring-wise, but I think he has a great chance when it comes to career averages.
His career averages have a chance to be better, but any discerning fan won't be fooled by that. Since 22 (the age Wade entered the league) Kobe has averaged 28.5/5.8/5.3 with 3.1 assists. Wade won't ever approach those numbers in his career. He hasn't got a shot in hell. He just isn't as good as Kobe, plain and simple.

[Wukillabeez78]

I love how you filter those stats to favor Kobe.

So you're gonna bash Wade because Kobe wasn't a star right away in his first 2-3 years, and Wade was a Star right off the bat, that's his problem, should of went to college.

Wade career- 25.5\7\5\2\1 48%
Kobe career 25\5\5\1\.5 46%


Wade playoffs- 26\6\6\2\1 48%
Kobe playoffs 25.5\5\5\1.5\1 45%

^^ Stats don't lie brother. (www.nba.com)

Wade assists- 6+ 6 times
Kobe assists - 6+ 0 times

Wade assists- 7+ 2 times
Kobe assists 7+ 0 times

Wade is a better play maker then Kobe, no matter how you look at it.

Wade in the NBA FINALS 34\8\4\2\1 46%

Kobe in the NBA FINALS 25\5\5\2\1 45%

If you want to, give me Kobe's best Finals Performance and compare it to Wade's, but it's still not as good.

Yes, Kobe is more impressive by a good amount right now, but Wade will play 5+ more seasons in the NBA when Kobe will retire. Don't act like it's impossible to catch Kobe, especially when Wade now can possibly win 4-5 more rings.


Wade averages more assists because the system he has always played in puts him in a position with the ball (iso situations a la Cleveland and Lebron) in his hands and he can either choose to score himself or pass directly to a teammate who scores. Kobe hasn't played in such a system (the triangle) and only goes iso when he is in a groove or when his teammates throw it to him with the clock running down for him to create. In the triangle the bigs get the ball first and the other players cut and move and all have (in theory) equal opportunities to be in positions to score/initiate offense. Jordan played in the same system when Phil Jackson got to Chicago and they'd start off games trying to get Cartwright or the other bigs involved (which Jordan hated at first because he didn't feel like his less talented teammates should be put in positions to score as much as he did). Phil took this same philosophy to L.A. and actually had a big who could dominate inside (Shaq).

Wade averages more assists in his career than Jordan but I don't necessarily feel he was the better playmaker than Jordan either. Kobe and Jordan were asked to score by Phil Jackson. They weren't asked to be playmakers like Wade was. Wade's role was to be a playmaker because he had to create for less talented teammates. He was the be all end all on offense. Kobe and Jordan had very talented teammates who could score themselves without someone creating for them (Pippen, Shaq, Gasol). In fact, Pippen could create for Jordan and Shaq and Gasol obviously create and open things up for Kobe.

Wade is definitely the better passer but the reason for his better assist numbers aren't hard to understand if you can see the different roles each player has had. I will say that Wade is definitely a much less selfish player than Kobe or Jordan. Kobe and Jordan both forced many more shots than Wade has ever dreamed of taking. Wade's assist numbers will probably go down a bit now though because he is playing with guys that can be given the ball and create or score without any assistance and can even create for him. This is what Kobe and Jordan had for the bulk of their careers.

It's hard to compare Wade and Kobe's Finals numbers because Kobe has been there 7 times (against many different teams) compared to Wade's 1. We'll see if Wade can get there again and if so how he does in multiple trips. Kobe and his L.A. teams have had two little dynasties now, two times in his career now that they have made it to the finals 3 times in a row. When a team is able to have this kind of success other teams go out and bring in players designed to shut down your strengths. Teams signed the best perimeter defenders (Posey, Bowen, Captain Jack, etc...) to stop Kobe and the best bigs to slow down Shaq/Gasol. Wade has never made successive Finals trips and has never had other organizations building teams to shut him down during the playoffs. It's always been let Wade get his because we can stop everyone else. Again, Wade is skilled enough to prevail and be successul like Kobe has but he hasn't faced that kind of pressure and been targeted like that before. We'll see how he does with his new teammates and see if they can make it to the Finals this year and beyond...

[tpols]

Wade averages more assists because the system he has always played in puts him in a position with the ball (iso situations a la Cleveland and Lebron) in his hands and he can either choose to score himself or pass directly to a teammate who scores. Kobe hasn't played in such a system (the triangle) and only goes iso when he is in a groove or when his teammates throw it to him with the clock running down for him to create. In the triangle the bigs get the ball first and the other players cut and move and all have (in theory) equal opportunities to be in positions to score/initiate offense. Jordan played in the same system when Phil Jackson got to Chicago and they'd start off games trying to get Cartwright or the other bigs involved (which Jordan hated at first because he didn't feel like his less talented teammates should be put in positions to score as much as he did). Phil took this same philosophy to L.A. and actually had a big who could dominate inside (Shaq).

Wade averages more assists in his career than Jordan but I don't necessarily feel he was the better playmaker than Jordan either. Kobe and Jordan were asked to score by Phil Jackson. They weren't asked to be playmakers like Wade was. Wade's role was to be a playmaker because he had to create for less talented teammates. He was the be all end all on offense. Kobe and Jordan had very talented teammates who could score themselves without someone creating for them (Pippen, Shaq, Gasol). In fact, Pippen could create for Jordan and Shaq and Gasol obviously create and open things up for Kobe.

Wade is definitely the better passer but the reason for his better assist numbers aren't hard to understand if you can see the different roles each player has had. I will say that Wade is definitely a much less selfish player than Kobe or Jordan. Kobe and Jordan both forced many more shots than Wade has ever dreamed of taking. Wade's assist numbers will probably go down a bit now though because he is playing with guys that can be given the ball and create or score without any assistance and can even create for him. This is what Kobe and Jordan had for the bulk of their careers.

It's hard to compare Wade and Kobe's Finals numbers because Kobe has been there 7 times (against many different teams) compared to Wade's 1. We'll see if Wade can get there again and if so how he does in multiple trips. Kobe and his L.A. teams have had two little dynasties now, two times in his career now that they have made it to the finals 3 times in a row. When a team is able to have this kind of success other teams go out and bring in players designed to shut down your strengths. Teams signed the best perimeter defenders (Posey, Bowen, Captain Jack, etc...) to stop Kobe and the best bigs to slow down Shaq/Gasol. Wade has never made successive Finals trips and has never had other organizations building teams to shut him down during the playoffs. It's always been let Wade get his because we can stop everyone else. Again, Wade is skilled enough to prevail and be successul like Kobe has but he hasn't faced that kind of pressure and been targeted like that before. We'll see how he does with his new teammates and see if they can make it to the Finals this year and beyond...
:applause: nice post

[The GM]

This question is laughable, anyone with common sense knows Kobe will be one of the "legends" of the game when he decides to call it quits. A more realistic question is will Wade have a better career then his butt-buddy Lebron?

[Younggrease]

how is this even an argument?

[tpols]

This question is laughable, anyone with common sense knows Kobe will be one of the "legends" of the game when he decides to call it quits. A more realistic question is will Wade have a better career then his butt-buddy Lebron?
no way

[zORi]

Bosh is top 10 now? Who are you taking off this list for Bosh?

Bryant/ Wade/ James/ Paul/ Howard/ Durant/ Dirk/ Duncan/ Melo/ Roy

And just outside the top 10, we also have Pierce, Gasol, etc.

What Bosh has shown so far is that he can put up good stats on bad teams but not make bad teams competitive.

Duncan.

Although, I would put Bosh after Melo and Roy.

[barbaroi]

Wade averages more assists because the system he has always played in puts him in a position with the ball (iso situations a la Cleveland and Lebron) in his hands and he can either choose to score himself or pass directly to a teammate who scores. Kobe hasn't played in such a system (the triangle) and only goes iso when he is in a groove or when his teammates throw it to him with the clock running down for him to create. In the triangle the bigs get the ball first and the other players cut and move and all have (in theory) equal opportunities to be in positions to score/initiate offense. Jordan played in the same system when Phil Jackson got to Chicago and they'd start off games trying to get Cartwright or the other bigs involved (which Jordan hated at first because he didn't feel like his less talented teammates should be put in positions to score as much as he did). Phil took this same philosophy to L.A. and actually had a big who could dominate inside (Shaq).

Wade averages more assists in his career than Jordan but I don't necessarily feel he was the better playmaker than Jordan either. Kobe and Jordan were asked to score by Phil Jackson. They weren't asked to be playmakers like Wade was. Wade's role was to be a playmaker because he had to create for less talented teammates. He was the be all end all on offense. Kobe and Jordan had very talented teammates who could score themselves without someone creating for them (Pippen, Shaq, Gasol). In fact, Pippen could create for Jordan and Shaq and Gasol obviously create and open things up for Kobe.

Wade is definitely the better passer but the reason for his better assist numbers aren't hard to understand if you can see the different roles each player has had. I will say that Wade is definitely a much less selfish player than Kobe or Jordan. Kobe and Jordan both forced many more shots than Wade has ever dreamed of taking. Wade's assist numbers will probably go down a bit now though because he is playing with guys that can be given the ball and create or score without any assistance and can even create for him. This is what Kobe and Jordan had for the bulk of their careers.

It's hard to compare Wade and Kobe's Finals numbers because Kobe has been there 7 times (against many different teams) compared to Wade's 1. We'll see if Wade can get there again and if so how he does in multiple trips. Kobe and his L.A. teams have had two little dynasties now, two times in his career now that they have made it to the finals 3 times in a row. When a team is able to have this kind of success other teams go out and bring in players designed to shut down your strengths. Teams signed the best perimeter defenders (Posey, Bowen, Captain Jack, etc...) to stop Kobe and the best bigs to slow down Shaq/Gasol. Wade has never made successive Finals trips and has never had other organizations building teams to shut him down during the playoffs. It's always been let Wade get his because we can stop everyone else. Again, Wade is skilled enough to prevail and be successul like Kobe has but he hasn't faced that kind of pressure and been targeted like that before. We'll see how he does with his new teammates and see if they can make it to the Finals this year and beyond...
Wade's higher assist average is also mitigated by his propensity for turnovers. Wade's assist to turnover ratio is 1.78 which, while still better than Kobe's 1.71, suggests Wade's passing ability is not a far cry better than Kobe's, as the raw assist numbers might lead you to believe.

[TryToBeUnbias]

how is this even an argument?
it isnt but people will try to argue it.

[DKLaker]

I really can't believe this is even being discussed:facepalm .

Comparing wade to kobe is like comparing drexler to jordan.

Exactly :applause: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[NBASTATMAN]

Wade has the opportunity to match Kobe's rings. and Finals MVP. Will he surpass Kobe on the All-times list?


Every Title that Wade wins will be as the man.. RIght now kobe has had the better career... But Wade will catch up if injuries don't slow him down...:rockon:

[macpierce]

scoring averages are pretty close due to kobe not starting his first two years.......however kobe's peak scoring in terms of accolades(regular season, playoff games overall) DESTROYS WADES AND IT ISNT EVEN CLOSE ( as barkley would say).
I like wade, he is the 2nd best shooting guard today and could be arguably number one in some ppls minds. But depending how many chips he wins who knows where he will go

[KOLBCTEW]

Kobe is better, and he still has a window to win 4 more or so. Wade's window is closing, considering he's only like 2 and a half years younger than Kobe.


:oldlol: Wait What? Kobe still has a window to win 4 more or so but Wade's window is closing because he's younger than Kobe
oh in the first round pretty much sweep?:facepalm

Lets see him face a finals boston team. The intensity changes.
Boston had more to worry about against the Lakers given they had a much better supporting cast. The only threat the Heat had was Wade and he still put up better numbers.

[tpols]

Boston had more to worry about against the Lakers given they had a much better supporting cast. The only threat the Heat had was Wade and he still put up better numbers.
thats why kobe was the only one on the lakers getting consistently doubled and tripled?

[plowking]

If he wins two more finals MVP's and two regular season MVP's before his career is done, sure.

So basically, not going to happen.

[KOLBCTEW]

thats why kobe was the only one on the lakers getting consistently doubled and tripled?
They were doing that far more to Wade as he was really the only offensive threat. 'Celticshub, an analytical Truehoop-affiliated Boston blog analyzed the defense against Wade, and called it "disrespectful" to his teammates.'

[PowerGlove]

They were doing that far more to Wade as he was really the only offensive threat. 'Celticshub, an analytical Truehoop-affiliated Boston blog analyzed the defense against Wade, and called it "disrespectful" to his teammates.'

They let JO shoot wide open jumpers from like ten feet.

[Disaprine]

with the team he has now, he has a chance of being just as good as kobe when his career is finish. although his stats will lower, it'll be a small price to pay with all the rings he'll be getting as the man. thats if he wins though.

[SinJackal]

Cut it off at 27 if you like: 3 seasons of 27+ for wade, 7 for Kobe.
Cut it off at 25 if you like: 4 for wade, 9 for Kobe.

No matter which way you slice it Wade isn't going to touch Kobe's peak. It's not like Wade is way younger than Kobe. He's 3 years behind, but he has far more than 3 seasons of Kobe-like performances to make up.

And my reply to that is the first paragraph of the post you replied to. I'll paste it for you in case you forgot.


Of course Kobe has more seasons of higher stats, since he has twice as many seasons under his belt including his entire prime. Not a good point.

My point stands.



I feel like the best way to attack this Miami team is to pretty much focus the entire defense on LeBron/Wade and take your chances with Bosh. You can always stick a hard-nosed big man on Bosh and hope to push him out.

Or zone them out of the paint and force them to make jumpers. I also feel that both LeBron and Wade can be contained. Wade by staying in front of him by keeping your distance and keeping a strong help defense just in case he gets by(will be easy to cheat off Miller since he's not that fast), and to keep the ball out of LeBron's hands (possible, with a gnat type defender ala Bruce Bowen. Ronnie Brewer/Roger Mason can arguably do this, though obviously not nearly at the level of Bowen. Ginobili can do that too. Not sure who on the Celtics does that, I'm not too fresh on their current roster.

An elaborate rotational defense will give them problems (Spurs, Celtics, Bulls*). I wouldn't be surprised if the Heat play under .500 combined against those 3 teams.

*I'm assuming the Bulls adopt that style of defense with Thib'. The Bulls have extremely good overall team height, so if their stupid brains are smart enough to get used to it quick enough, they should be very successful with it since there wouldn't be many mismatches on the floor at any point.

The Heat will win about 60 games, but I seriously am not seeing how anyone can logically think they'll win anywhere near 70 with such abuseable weaknesses.

[tpols]

And my reply to that is the first paragraph of the post you replied to. I'll paste it for you in case you forgot.



My point stands.


No it doesnt. Kobe has had way more dominant scoring seasons in his career. Wade won't ever sniff 30 ppg till he retires from this point on.

Kobe's peak scoring>>>>wade's peak scoring. undebatable.

Kobe's prime scoring>wade's prime scoring

The only thing he even has a shot at passing kobe on in the scoring department is career avg which is totally flawed in terms of using it to rank players since he averaged 8,8, and 16 to start his career, outliers that significantly drag his career ppg down.

[SinJackal]

No it doesnt. Kobe has had way more dominant scoring seasons in his career. Wade won't ever sniff 30 ppg till he retires from this point on.

Kobe's peak scoring>>>>wade's peak scoring. undebatable.

Kobe's prime scoring>wade's prime scoring

The only thing he even has a shot at passing kobe on in the scoring department is career avg which is totally flawed in terms of using it to rank players since he averaged 8,8, and 16 to start his career, outliers that significantly drag his career ppg down.

My reply:


Of course Kobe has more seasons of higher stats, since he has twice as many seasons under his belt including his entire prime. Not a good point.

And the only thing "flawed" here is the fact that you think I'm trying to argue that Wade would be a better player if he had higher career averages. I never said that, you're only assuming because you're overly sensitive of comments about Kobe.

I already said Wade would never be considered better than Kobe earlier in the thread, and that Wade would simply have a good shot at having better career averages. You took what I said completely out of context despite the fact that it was right next to me saying Wade could never match Kobe's accomplishments, and got defensive about it.

Next time, read a post entirely rather than make a fool of yourself.

Also, you assume too much that Wade will never average 30. You aren't a diviner. You're just guessing. And a guess of what a pro athlete is going to do when they are in their prime right now, or not do is as valuble as what you left in the toilet earlier today.

[Quotable]

He could be considered as good/better in his peak years, but will probably fall short on the long term accomplishments because of his injury history... but it is possible for him to reach 4 and 5 championships and throw his hat into the top 10 ring.

[tpols]

My reply:



And the only thing "flawed" here is the fact that you think I'm trying to argue that Wade would be a better player if he had higher career averages. I never said that, you're only assuming because you're overly sensitive of comments about Kobe.

I already said Wade would never be considered better than Kobe earlier in the thread, and that Wade would simply have a good shot at having better career averages. You took what I said completely out of context despite the fact that it was right next to me saying Wade could never match Kobe's accomplishments, and got defensive about it.

Next time, read a post entirely rather than make a fool of yourself.

Also, you assume too much that Wade will never average 30. You aren't a diviner. You're just guessing. And a guess of what a pro athlete is going to do when they are in their prime right now, or not do is as valuble as what you left in the toilet earlier today.
your reply was that kobe has more seasons under his belt to prove his scoring dominance.

My reply to that is that with wade's 'extra time' being spent with lebron he wont crack 25 ppg. You said earlier in a thread that he would get 25.5 ppg playing on the new miami heat.

^that would mean, as I have said, that his peak and prime scoring seasons aren't going to touch kobe's.

Also, you have to remember that wade is in his prime right now. Kobe is in his 14th season and is very old for what he's still doing. A prime 35+ppg kobe sh!ts on wade and would be a more relative comparison to what wade's been doing over the past few years.

[SinJackal]

your reply was that kobe has more seasons under his belt to prove his scoring dominance.

My reply to that is that with wade's 'extra time' being spent with lebron he wont crack 25 ppg. You said earlier in a thread that he would get 25.5 ppg playing on the new miami heat.

^that would mean, as I have said, that his peak and prime scoring seasons aren't going to touch kobe's.

Also, you have to remember that wade is in his prime right now. Kobe is in his 14th season and is very old for what he's still doing. A prime 35+ppg kobe sh!ts on wade and would be a more relative comparison to what wade's been doing over the past few years.

My reply was that saying Kobe has 9 seasons of anything is a moot point considering that Wade has not even played in 9 seasons, meaning that Kobe will obviously always win in a "who has the most season of -insert whatever here-" argument because he's played in twice as many seasons. Which means, quite obviously, that it's a pointless comparison that means nothing.

A prime 35 PPG Kobe happened once. He's scored over 30 only twice. Hee did slightly more than nothing that season as far as winning went. If you want to pretend that the worst two years of his life success-wise is his prime, and that Wade has to compare himself to it, then fine. Wade will be winning far more games. Aside from those two years, where he was a chucker for a losing team, Kobe has not produced seasons that are better than Wade's on average, even subtracting his first few not so great seasons, has not been better than Wade statiscially.

You are arguing that Kobe's entire career has been better than Wade's by far, and your entire argument are two shot chucking selfish years where he barely won half his games and his shittiest A/TO ratio ever along with his worst APG ratio since becoming a star player. He also had by far the worst FGA/Assist ratio in the history of the modern NBA when he scored 35 a game.

Please compare Wade's career to that season more. Because Kobe did nothing but jack up a ton of shots and get shit on by the media and fans everywhere for being nothing more than a basketball black hole, ball chucking loser who couldn't win without Shaq and didn't make his teammates better.

[RazorBaLade]

why argue with a troll tpols?

[DKLaker]

why argue with a troll tpols?

Call him a troll if you want.......Tpols is RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

[RazorBaLade]

Call him a troll if you want.......Tpols is RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

im calling jackal a troll

[SinJackal]

Razor, you're a Kobe troll, so it really doesn't matter to me if you try to label me as one, seeing as how you're a hypocrite.

tpols is also arguing with me because he wrongly assumes I said Wade would have a better career than Kobe, when I clearly stated that he wouldn't.

The only thing I'm even agruing is that Wade's career stats will be similar to or better than Kobe's. I already said Kobe would quite obviously have the better career. Therefore, I don't see how I could possibly be perceived as trolling, or hating on Kobe.

It's all you guys being overly sensitive about someone rating someone above Kobe in any category. You fools will label anyone who does that as a troll, regardless of the point they're making being true, and non offensive. Therefore, I could not possibly care less if you think of me as a troll. You are overly sensitive, period.

[crisoner]

I'll say Wade might have a show. But Kobe is also still playing on an elite team and can still rack up accomplishments. Wade got a whole lot of ground to cover.

[tpols]

My reply was that saying Kobe has 9 seasons of anything is a moot point considering that Wade has not even played in 9 seasons, meaning that Kobe will obviously always win in a "who has the most season of -insert whatever here-" argument because he's played in twice as many seasons. Which means, quite obviously, that it's a pointless comparison that means nothing.

A prime 35 PPG Kobe happened once. He's scored over 30 only twice. Hee did slightly more than nothing that season as far as winning went. If you want to pretend that the worst two years of his life success-wise is his prime, and that Wade has to compare himself to it, then fine. Wade will be winning far more games. Aside from those two years, where he was a chucker for a losing team, Kobe has not produced seasons that are better than Wade's on average, even subtracting his first few not so great seasons, has not been better than Wade statiscially.

You are arguing that Kobe's entire career has been better than Wade's by far, and your entire argument are two shot chucking selfish years where he barely won half his games and his shittiest A/TO ratio ever along with his worst APG ratio since becoming a star player. He also had by far the worst FGA/Assist ratio in the history of the modern NBA when he scored 35 a game.

Please compare Wade's career to that season more. Because Kobe did nothing but jack up a ton of shots and get shit on by the media and fans everywhere for being nothing more than a basketball black hole, ball chucking loser who couldn't win without Shaq and didn't make his teammates better.
I don't know why you're getting mad calling him a chucker/selfish/etc. That's irrelevant.

Phil told kobe when he was playing with the likes of smush parker and kwame brown to start shooting. He no longer said pass kobe pass. He told him to score because he knew the team was ass.

Kobe's seasons before gasol were very similar to wade's prime seasons of the past couple years. Both teams had little talent around their star and both were bounced in the first round.

Difference is kobe easily beat wade not only in scoring averages, but in legendary game explosions as well. No one has ever beaten a team singlehandedly through three quarters. Wilt, although he would be great, wouldn't drop 100 in today's game. Jordan never hit 81. Kobe did some game shattering things that won't be forgotten.

Now I know you admitted that wade isnt close to kobe on the goat list. Still, saying a prime wade can score as well as a prime kobe doesn't make a bit of sense.

[SinJackal]

I don't know why you're getting mad calling him a chucker/selfish/etc. That's irrelevant.

Phil told kobe when he was playing with the likes of smush parker and kwame brown to start shooting. He no longer said pass kobe pass. He told him to score because he knew the team was ass.

Kobe's seasons before gasol were very similar to wade's prime seasons of the past couple years. Both teams had little talent around their star and both were bounced in the first round.

Difference is kobe easily beat wade not only in scoring averages, but in legendary game explosions as well. No one has ever beaten a team singlehandedly through three quarters. Wilt, although he would be great, wouldn't drop 100 in today's game. Jordan never hit 81. Kobe did some game shattering things that won't be forgotten.

Now I know you admitted that wade isnt close to kobe on the goat list. Still, saying a prime wade can score as well as a prime kobe doesn't make a bit of sense.

Not mad at all. My mood rarely changes throughout a day.

He was a chucker, 28 FGA a game, lowest APG of his career. Sorry, but that = chucker. The "Kobe pass the damn ball" phrase came into popularity because of Kobe causing the Lakers to fail against the Pistons in the finals due to selfish play. So Kobe decided to try and pass a lot to prove he could make his teammates better. . .and the Lakers sucked really bad. So the next season, he completely does the opposite and rarely passes and just chucks shots, saying "I tried to pass and it didn't work", as his excuse.

The guy was so childish, he would do one or the other so he could say "see?", rather than do BOTH which he finally does now.

My point is. . .Kobe's best individual seasons were also his worst team fail seasons, and is the most highly criticsized point in his career. That literally has meant ZERO in the history books when it comes to rating players. Example: Dominique Wilkins. Excellent player, excellent scorer. Good defender. Even got deep in the finals several times with averageish teams. Career averages only slightly under Kobe's. GOAT Rank: Barely makes the top 50.

I agree that Wade won't put up a 35 PPG season, but why does that even matter so much? Kobe fans belittle Jordan's career 30+ PPG career saying only rings count, but when it's Wade the 30+ PPG counts if Wade gets rings? I don't get it.

Anyway, I'm tired of debating about Kobe, especially when I never said Wade would have a better career anyway. Let's wrap it up within the next 1-3 posts.

[ashbelly]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: why are guys talking about wade's prime like it's over like kobe's ??? Wade's prime is coming up.. The coming 3 years will be a shock to many.

[barbaroi]

Not mad at all. My mood rarely changes throughout a day.

He was a chucker, 28 FGA a game, lowest APG of his career. Sorry, but that = chucker. The "Kobe pass the damn ball" phrase came into popularity because of Kobe causing the Lakers to fail against the Pistons in the finals due to selfish play. So Kobe decided to try and pass a lot to prove he could make his teammates better. . .and the Lakers sucked really bad. So the next season, he completely does the opposite and rarely passes and just chucks shots, saying "I tried to pass and it didn't work", as his excuse.

The guy was so childish, he would do one or the other so he could say "see?", rather than do BOTH which he finally does now.

My point is. . .Kobe's best individual seasons were also his worst team fail seasons, and is the most highly criticsized point in his career. That literally has meant ZERO in the history books when it comes to rating players. Example: Dominique Wilkins. Excellent player, excellent scorer. Good defender. Even got deep in the finals several times with averageish teams. Career averages only slightly under Kobe's. GOAT Rank: Barely makes the top 50.

I agree that Wade won't put up a 35 PPG season, but why does that even matter so much? Kobe fans belittle Jordan's career 30+ PPG career saying only rings count, but when it's Wade the 30+ PPG counts if Wade gets rings? I don't get it.

Anyway, I'm tired of debating about Kobe, especially when I never said Wade would have a better career anyway. Let's wrap it up within the next 1-3 posts.
Kobe had far less talent on his team in 06 than Wade had on his team this past season, yet in a tougher conference managed to win about the same amount of games. Look at his teammates that season: Brian Cook, Smush Parker, and kwame brown were his starters for God's sake. I'd say that's pretty amazing. Only person other than Michael to average 35+ in the modern era. To say that season doesn't count toward his legacy is ridiculous. It was an unbelievable season, and he did about as well as possible with what he had around him.

[tpols]

Not mad at all. My mood rarely changes throughout a day.

He was a chucker, 28 FGA a game, lowest APG of his career. Sorry, but that = chucker. The "Kobe pass the damn ball" phrase came into popularity because of Kobe causing the Lakers to fail against the Pistons in the finals due to selfish play. So Kobe decided to try and pass a lot to prove he could make his teammates better. . .and the Lakers sucked really bad. So the next season, he completely does the opposite and rarely passes and just chucks shots, saying "I tried to pass and it didn't work", as his excuse.

The guy was so childish, he would do one or the other so he could say "see?", rather than do BOTH which he finally does now.

My point is. . .Kobe's best individual seasons were also his worst team fail seasons, and is the most highly criticsized point in his career. That literally has meant ZERO in the history books when it comes to rating players. Example: Dominique Wilkins. Excellent player, excellent scorer. Good defender. Even got deep in the finals several times with averageish teams. Career averages only slightly under Kobe's. GOAT Rank: Barely makes the top 50.

I agree that Wade won't put up a 35 PPG season, but why does that even matter so much? Kobe fans belittle Jordan's career 30+ PPG career saying only rings count, but when it's Wade the 30+ PPG counts if Wade gets rings? I don't get it.

Anyway, I'm tired of debating about Kobe, especially when I never said Wade would have a better career anyway. Let's wrap it up within the next 1-3 posts.
Do you know who followed a similar trend? Michael Jordan. Most criticized years came right before his first championship when he was putting up ridiculous numbers, his team wasn't winning, and everybody said he couldn't win. Then he won.

Kobe put up statistical greatness as well, his team wasn't winning, and everybody said he couldn't win without shaq. Then he won.

Wade has had the opportunity to try and score through the roof over the past few years when his second option was f!cking jermaine oneal. He didn't do it though.

Calling him a chucker doesn't mean anything. He put up 35+ a game on 45%. Since when is 45% fg for a shooting guard chucking? His eFG% was 49.1%. Again, I don't understand this is at all inefficient for a guy with a jumpshot heavy game at the shooting guard position.

[Mr. Jabbar]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: why are guys talking about wade's prime like it's over like kobe's ??? Wade's prime is coming up.. The coming 3 years will be a shock to many.

Specially heat fans :lol (which of course you are not part of)

[plowking]

Anyone think all of Lebron, Wade and Kobe will end up top 15? *

*I realize Kobe is already there, but the other two?*

[deeznut]

Kobe. I don't think wade going to be in the top 10 when his career is over cuz he don't have a shooting or post-up game and once he lost his first step, he not going to get in the rim like he used too.

[The_Yearning]

81.

[RazorBaLade]

Anyone think all of Lebron, Wade and Kobe will end up top 15? *

*I realize Kobe is already there, but the other two?*

would be crazy i dont mind it happening

[FP10]

we will see when both retired.

[Nash]

Kobe. Wade has 1 ring at 28 and I have a hard time believing that he could end up with 4 or 5 more.

[G-Funk]

Please let's not fool ourselves. Wade entered the league at 22 after 4 years of college. Kobe since age 22 is averaging 28.5/5.8/5.3 with 3.1 TO. Wade in his career 25.4/4.9/6.6 with 3.7 TO. He's not close to the player Kobe is. He has one season of 28+ ppg. One! 3 seasons of 5+ rpg while kobe has 12 seasons of 5+ and 3 of 6+. And his assist to turnover ratio is 1.78 to Kobe's 1.71, what a wopping advantage for wade :rolleyes: . He simply doesn't have better stats.

Kobe is better than Wade because he came out of high school. Wade needed 4 years to even have a chance to be a top pick. I even think that Kobe's NBA averages at ages 17-21 were nearly better than Wades College stats. That just shows you the talent that Kobe was. My point is that Kobe has been better than wade pretty much at every age you compare them. Kobe better than Wade from ages 17-21. Kobe was the better from ages 22-28 and will be the better player from ages 29-35.


I also noticed how some ppl are using Kobe's low career due to coming out of high school just to diminish him and asking not to filter them. But yet they say that Kobe had better career season because he's been in the league longer. If your gonna compare players, they should be compared by age. Is it really fair to compare a 18yr old to a 22yr old? because if that's the case, It would only speak volumes about how great Kobe was at a young age.

[G-Funk]

Anyone think all of Lebron, Wade and Kobe will end up top 15? *

*I realize Kobe is already there, but the other two?*
Lebron has a shot, I think Wade will for sure crack 10-15 list.

[Ikill]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: why are guys talking about wade's prime like it's over like kobe's ??? Wade's prime is coming up.. The coming 3 years will be a shock to many.
this

[Ikill]

Kobe. I don't think wade going to be in the top 10 when his career is over cuz he don't have a shooting or post-up game and once he lost his first step, he not going to get in the rim like he used too.
my guess his he'll switch to pg he could be 10 assists guy if he wanted to. No pg would stop wade anyway a 6'5 220 guy with amazing skills

[jrong]

Duncan.

Although, I would put Bosh after Melo and Roy.

Ok, MAYBE Duncan isn't top 10 anymore, but I totally forgot D Williams. So, Bosh still isn't top 10.

Bryant/ Wade/ James/ Paul/ Howard/ Durant/ Nowitzki/ Williams/ Anthony/ Roy

And like I said, I wouldn't put him in front of Gasol either and possibly Pierce, and you would have to do a strong job convincing me that Bosh has more impact than Duncan, even at this stage in TD's career....

[Rambis]

my guess his he'll switch to pg he could be 10 assists guy if he wanted to. No pg would stop wade anyway a 6'5 220 guy with amazing skills

No one has ever made that kind of switch and then averaged 10 assists a game. (Though statistically Wilt did it one year) And in case you haven't heard, LeBron is the new Magic Johnson on the Heat and will be the distributor. (Italics indicate sarcasm)

I do think LeBron will definitely make Wade's career last longer. I felt Wade was going to take an Iverson type hit in his career. You can't be a bowling ball forever -- but LEBron will open things up and I think make things a lot easier for Wade. I don't think either will ever win an MVP award now, but I do think they could do amazing things statistically -- it is possible.

What I wonder is, if, when the team is dominating, Riley (err, i Mean spoelstra) will allow them to sit and rest their legs, cause in the playoffs, they'll need to be serious Iron Men (45+ a game) to give the team a chance against the good teams.

[Jordan23GOAT]

Kobe. And this is coming from a non-laker fan.

[jrong]

Still, saying a prime wade can score as well as a prime kobe doesn't make a bit of sense.

Let me break something down for you, regarding Kobe, Wade, and LeBron. In any given year out of these players, whoever shoots the most, scores the most. I'll use 2006 as an example: Bryant: 35 ppg/27 FGA... James: 31 ppg/23 FGA... Wade: 27 ppg/19 FGA

Now do the math, and tell me how many more points Wade at 49% FGs would have been projected to average that year if he took EIGHT MORE shots......
And then tell me how many more points Bron at 48% FGs would have been projected to average if he took FOUR MORE shots...... If you said (approximately) 35 ppg, then you're correct!...... But, it goes the other way too. When Wade led the league in scoring, he led the league in shots. Ditto for Bron when he was the scoring champ.

For all the fanboi noisemaking, the fact is that there's a hair's breadth difference between all of these players. And if circumstances had happened differently, Wade could've had Kobe's career.

Swap Wade for Kobe with Shaq in LA and you still get a threepeat. Young Wade won a ring as Batman to post-prime Shaq's Robin. Do you really think then that young Wade wouldn't have been good enough to win playing Robin to prime-Shaq's Batman?

Wade would have a bit scored less than Kobe did on the Lakers, but he would have compensated for that with playmaking and, not to mention chemistry and harmony with Shaq! (Actually, Shaq/Wade would've four-peated because young Wade would've been content with his role, and thus the Pistons loss would've never happened, but that would've given Shaq an argument for GOAT and nobody wants that....)

And up until the Decision, Wade looked like the third act of his career was going to mirror Kobe's too: Act I: tandem with Shaq / Act II: carrying terrible teams alone to the playoffs / Act III: teamed with legitimate co-star big man

If Miami had just acquired Bosh, then they would've added Haywood, Felton, and kept Q. Hmm... Felton/Wade/Richardson/Bosh/Haywood-- now what team's starting five does that remind you of??.... And that team would've been a contender. Maybe not a favorite, but a contender, and given Wade's track record, I wouldn't bet against him. And next year they could've added more pieces when they regained their exceptions-- plus they wouldn't have traded all their future picks.

.... As I've said before, Kobe has earned the right to presumptively be called the best player until the end of the season. And in terms of his overall career, he's obviously ahead of Wade currently. But, I just don't get how you can't see that it could easily have been otherwise if their respective circumstances were different....

[gleden]

:wtf: Why, because they beat that legendary franchise Dallas Mavericks.....the group that Kobe outscored all by himself in 3 quarters 62-61?

The ones with that tradition of winning championships, hall of fame players and retired jerseys hanging in the rafters......oh my bad...that's who KOBE just beat.

So you are really that impressed by beating a Chokewitzki led team that has done nothing before or since. Do you think that Dallas team was better than ANY of the teams Kobe and the Lakers beat in the Finals :facepalm
How the Fk did they let Dallas win the first 2 anyways?

The Mavs made it to the finals that year, Lakers didnt

[nbacardDOTnet]

I'm a Celtics fan but I would want to use this pic.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Miami%20Heat/umadmiamiheat-kobebryant-1.jpg

[KOLBCTEW]

I also noticed how some ppl are using Kobe's low career due to coming out of high school just to diminish him and asking not to filter them. But yet they say that Kobe had better career season because he's been in the league longer..
Isn't that exactly why his stats shouldn't be filtered because he's been in the league far longer and had more years to develop his skill set against NBA talent.
And how are you going to filter out his career stats just for being a bench player when he's the one that chose to go into the nba early. If they felt he was good enough to be starting they would've started him so that's more of a discredit to him because they felt he wasn't good enough yet.

[fazzazz1k]

If Kobe retired right now, he would still have a better career than Wade.


I would not go that far.....

[Ikill]

No one has ever made that kind of switch and then averaged 10 assists a game. (Though statistically Wilt did it one year) And in case you haven't heard, LeBron is the new Magic Johnson on the Heat and will be the distributor. (Italics indicate sarcasm)

I do think LeBron will definitely make Wade's career last longer. I felt Wade was going to take an Iverson type hit in his career. You can't be a bowling ball forever -- but LEBron will open things up and I think make things a lot easier for Wade. I don't think either will ever win an MVP award now, but I do think they could do amazing things statistically -- it is possible.

What I wonder is, if, when the team is dominating, Riley (err, i Mean spoelstra) will allow them to sit and rest their legs, cause in the playoffs, they'll need to be serious Iron Men (45+ a game) to give the team a chance against the good teams.
but people think this guys career will be done in 2 years, even without lebron he could still last 5 years like i dont see any signs of slowing down. Oh yeah dwade is not undersized

[guy]

Let me break something down for you, regarding Kobe, Wade, and LeBron. In any given year out of these players, whoever shoots the most, scores the most. I'll use 2006 as an example: Bryant: 35 ppg/27 FGA... James: 31 ppg/23 FGA... Wade: 27 ppg/19 FGA

Now do the math, and tell me how many more points Wade at 49% FGs would have been projected to average that year if he took EIGHT MORE shots......
And then tell me how many more points Bron at 48% FGs would have been projected to average if he took FOUR MORE shots...... If you said (approximately) 35 ppg, then you're correct!...... But, it goes the other way too. When Wad led the league in scoring, he led the league in shots. Ditto for Bron when he was the scoring champ.


Although I agree with the rest of your post, you also have to realize that being able to create shots for yourself is part of what makes a great scorer, and I'd definitely say Kobe had an edge on both Lebron and Wade back in 2006. Its the same reason why no knowledgeable fan would say Dwight Howard is a better scorer then prime Allen Iverson despite the FG% difference.

[lakerspng]

Wade has A LOT of ground to cover and not many years to do so, considering he's only 3 years younger than Kobe.

If Wade were 24 I would say theres a slight chance, very slight.

Kobe's accomplishments are staggering for the average NBA career, it's amazing how some people act like ho hum, no big deal, just top 10 all time as if it's nothing and any decent talented player coming into the league has a shot at matching it.

Wade is a fantastic player, he does not have and will not have the career that Kobe has had and will have had when he finally hangs up his shoes. It's okay though, that doesn't speak bad about Wade 99.9% of athletes that have ever played in the league don't. Wade will have a better career than 95% of the athletes who ever played in the league. To get to where Kobe's gotten, so many thnigs have to go right for you and many of those things completely out of your control.

[tpols]

Let me break something down for you, regarding Kobe, Wade, and LeBron. In any given year out of these players, whoever shoots the most, scores the most. I'll use 2006 as an example: Bryant: 35 ppg/ 27 FGA James: 31 ppg/ 23 FGA Wade: 27 ppg/ 19 FGA

Now do the math, and tell me how many more points Wade at 49% FGs would have been projected to average that year if he took EIGHT MORE shots.......
And then tell me how many more points Bron at 48% FGs would have been projected to average if he took FOUR MORE shots....... If you said (approximately) 35 ppg, then you're correct!

It goes the other way too. When Wad led the league in scoring, he led the league in shots. Ditto for Bron when he was the scoring champ.

For all the fanboi noisemaking, the fact is that there's a hair's breadth difference between all of these players. And if circumstances had happened differently, Wade could've had Kobe's career.

Swap Wade for Kobe with Shaq in LA and you still get a threepeat. Young Wade won a ring as Batman to post-prime Shaq's Robin. Do you really think then that young Wade wouldn't have been good enough to win playing Robin to prime-Shaq's Batman?

Wade would have a bit scored less than Kobe did on the Lakers, but he would have compensated for that with playmaking and, not to mention chemistry and harmony with Shaq! (Actually, Shaq/Wade would've four-peated because young Wade would've been content with his role, and thus the Pistons loss would've never happened, but that would've given Shaq an argument for GOAT and nobody wants that....)

And up until the Decision, Wade looked like the third act of his career was going to mirror Kobe's too:

Act I: tandem with Shaq
Act II: carrying terrible teams alone to the playoffs
Act III: teamed with legitimate co-star big man

If Miami had just acquired Bosh, then they would've added Haywood, Felton, and kept Q. Hmm... Felton/Wade/Richardson/Bosh/Haywood-- now what team's starting five does that remind you of??.... And that team would've been a contender. Maybe not a favorite, but a contender, and given Wade's track record, I wouldn't bet against him. And next year they could've added more pieces when they regained their exceptions-- plus they wouldn't have traded all their future picks.

....As I've said before, Kobe has earned the right to presumptively be called the best player until the end of the season. And in terms of his overall career, he's obviously ahead of Wade currently. But, I just don't get how you can't see that it could easily have been otherwise if their circumstances were different....
Yes the more they shoot the more they score... that's obvious.

But wade has never shown that he can put up scoring seasons like kobe. You say he didn't shoot as much. Why not? His team was just as bad. Kobe shot a lot, scored a lot on a good percentage, and his team even made the playoffs and should have, if not for the major collapse, beat the suns. But that irrelevant. Wade is a bowling ball. He runs to the rim and is the game's best slasher. Kobe relies more on his post game and shooting. I find a jumpshooter putting up 35 a game and performances of 60+ and 81 for a season to be way more impressive than a slasher putting up 25-28 a game.

By your logic, if Charles Barkley took more shots per game he would be putting up 35 a game easy too. It's just that he didn't because if he were to shoot more than he was accostumed to, he might have been playing outside his game, and probably wouldn't have been able to pull it off on the same efficiency.

It could have been otherwise for any of the promising perimeter guys though. You put tmac on that lakers team, they win just as much. That really doesn't tell me much about wade. The real question is could wade take the lakers to three finals appearances in a row with gasol. I honestly don't think that could be replicated by him or tmac. They have a VERY high probability to make it FOUR times in a row and 3peat. That is just something I don't think many men can do. The only guy I can see having a high chance of doing what kobe has done over the past 3 years is lebron.

And I mean if you have that bosh/wade heat team you mentioned they don't even touch Gasol/kobe and I highly doubt they make it to the finals three times in a row even though they were in the weaker conference.

[tpols]

Isn't that exactly why his stats shouldn't be filtered because he's been in the league far longer and had more years to develop his skill set against NBA talent.
And how are you going to filter out his career stats just for being a bench player when he's the one that chose to go into the nba early. If they felt he was good enough to be starting they would've started him so that's more of a discredit to him because they felt he wasn't good enough yet.
:facepalm because his early numbers of averaging 8 ppg skews his career averages.

If you're going to use kobe's numbers from when he was 18 to lower his numbers then why not use wade's college numbers from when he was 18 too? They were both developing at that point and weren't who anybody sees them as today.

[jrong]

Although I agree with the rest of your post, you also have to realize that being able to create shots for yourself is part of what makes a great scorer, and I'd definitely say Kobe had an edge on both Lebron and Wade back in 2006. Its the same reason why no knowledgeable fan would say Dwight Howard is a better scorer then prime Allen Iverson despite the FG% difference.

I concede that Bron and Wade's FG% would've dropped if they shot the ball 27 times per game. So, they probably would've averaged more like 32 - 33 pts per game.

But, neither one of those guys is ever going to average 27 shots either. When Wade scored 30, he still dished 7.5 apg. Bron was close to 30 this year and averaged 8.5 apg. And when Wade and Bron do average 30, it's on 22 shots. They're just not the the same type of player Kobe is in that respect, whatever you want to label it.

[tpols]

Wade has A LOT of ground to cover and not many years to do so, considering he's only 3 years younger than Kobe.

If Wade were 24 I would say theres a slight chance, very slight.

Kobe's accomplishments are staggering for the average NBA career, it's amazing how some people act like ho hum, no big deal, just top 10 all time as if it's nothing and any decent talented player coming into the league has a shot at matching it.

Wade is a fantastic player, he does not have and will not have the career that Kobe has had and will have had when he finally hangs up his shoes. It's okay though, that doesn't speak bad about Wade 99.9% of athletes that have ever played in the league don't. Wade will have a better career than 95% of the athletes who ever played in the league. To get to where Kobe's gotten, so many thnigs have to go right for you and many of those things completely out of your control.
The lacksadaisical, 'so what' attitude is sickening and stupid. It's like saying if I grew to 6'9 I could make the nba.:facepalm

[jrong]

:facepalm because his early numbers of averaging 8 ppg skews his career averages.

If you're going to use kobe's numbers from when he was 18 to lower his numbers then why not use wade's college numbers from when he was 18 too? They were both developing at that point and weren't who anybody sees them as today.

While I agree with you that career averages are a poor indicator, using them also hurts Wade. As a rookie, Wade began as 4th option behind Odom, EJ, and Caron. By the postseason, he had taken over the team, but the result is that he only scored 16 ppg in the regular season.

Then Wade's 4th year, he was on pace to average 29 ppg through the break. Then he tore his shoulder, and so his average dropped to 27 due to the games he played after he returned.

And, of course, the next year, when he played with the unhealed shoulder and in need of knee surgery from compensating for the other injury, his average dropped to 24.6 ppg. If he had never gotten hurt, you have to figure he clocks in again at about 29 per night.

[guy]

I concede that Bron and Wade's FG% would've dropped if they shot the ball 27 times per game. So, they probably would've averaged more like 32 - 33 pts per game.

But, neither one of those guys is ever going to average 27 shots either. When Wade scored 30, he still dished 7.5 apg. Bron was close to 30 this year and averaged 8.5 apg. And when Wade and Bron do average 30, it's on 22 shots. They're just not the the same type of player Kobe is in that respect, whatever you want to label it.

Well Kobe was inarguably a better scorer then both those two in 06, and it sounds like your conceding to that when you say they would've averaged less points then Kobe on the same amount of shots.

Everyone knows they're different type of players. Yes, Bron and Wade are bigger playmakers then Kobe is. I think all 3 are not much better or worse then each other.

[G-Funk]

Isn't that exactly why his stats shouldn't be filtered because he's been in the league far longer and had more years to develop his skill set against NBA talent.
And how are you going to filter out his career stats just for being a bench player when he's the one that chose to go into the nba early. If they felt he was good enough to be starting they would've started him so that's more of a discredit to him because they felt he wasn't good enough yet.


He was so great he was drafted 13 overrall at a time when high school guards coming out of high school was unheard of. During his rookie season, Bryant mostly came off the bench behind guards All-stars Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. By the end of the season, he averaged 15.5 minutes a game. The second season Bryant's 15.4 points per game was the highest of any non-starter in his second season.

All-stars Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones got traded by the Lakers and chose a kid that wasn' good enought to start. His first 2 yrs didn't hurt Kobe at all, it actually shows you that Kobe was so great at age 18 that he could have started or played in the NBA for any other team that did not have All-stars.

[tpols]

While I agree with you that career averages are a poor indicator, using them also hurts Wade. As a rookie, Wade began as 4th option behind Odom, EJ, and Caron. By the postseason, he had taken over the team, but the result is that he only scored 16 ppg in the regular season.

Then Wade's 4th year, he was on pace to average 29 ppg through the break. Then he tore his shoulder, and so his average dropped to 27 in the games he played after he returned.

And, of course, the next year, when he played with the unhealed shoulder and in need of knee surgery from compensating for the other injury, his average dropped to 24.6 ppg. If he had never gotten hurt, you have to figure he clocks in again at about 29 per night.
I mean kobe's numbers in the beginning are a lot harder on his career stats. He had three-four years of not being how he's been for most of his career. Wade had one.

And injuries happen man. Yao could have been a goat center. Injuries hurt stars all the time. I feel like wade's style of play lends him towards injury a lot more than kobe's. That is another plus for kobe for his career.

[KOLBCTEW]

:facepalm because his early numbers of averaging 8 ppg skews his career averages.Skews?



If you're going to use kobe's numbers from when he was 18 to lower his numbersLowering his numbers?? Uhh.. Those are his actual numbers. If anything your trying to boost those numbers by disregarding some of his actual stats.



then why not use wade's college numbers from when he was 18 too? Because this is about an individuals nba career.. If your going all the way back might as well use his highschool career numbers.



They were both developing at that point and weren't who anybody sees them as today. One chose to develop in college, the other the NBA it's was Bryants own decision to come to the NBA and if his stats 'suffered' so be it.
He was so great he was drafted 13 overrall at a time when high school guards coming out of high school was unheard of. During his rookie season, Bryant mostly came off the bench behind guards All-stars Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. By the end of the season, he averaged 15.5 minutes a game. The second season Bryant's 15.4 points per game was the highest of any non-starter in his second season.

All-stars Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones got traded by the Lakers and chose a kid that wasn' good enought to start. His first 2 yrs didn't hurt Kobe at all, it actually shows you that Kobe was so great at age 18 that he could have started or played in the NBA for any other team that did not have All-stars.
Then if he was so great why make this vain attempt to disregard his rookie stats in an attempt to improve his overall numbers.

[tpols]

Skews?

Lowering his numbers?? Uhh.. Those are his actual numbers. If anything your trying to boost those numbers by disregarding some of his actual stats.

Because this is about an individuals nba career.. If your going all the way back might as well use his highschool career numbers.

One chose to develop in college, the other the NBA it's was Bryants own decision to come to the NBA and if his stats 'suffered' so be it.
Then if he was so great why make this vain attempt to disregard his rookie stats in an attempt to improve his overall numbers.
okay, you can use career ppg. But what does that tell you about who was the better scorer when it is being factored into how they rank on a goat list? It has been proven again and again that kobe is a better scorer than wade. I think its cheap to include 8ppg rookie stats when comparing how wells legends rank in a goat list but if you feel differently then fine. Kobe still wins the whose a better scorer argument.

[Desperado]

Holla @ me when Wade averages 35/5/5 over the course of an 82 game season and not just 35/8/4 during the course of 6 games.


Also everyone knows in the 2006 Finals Wade got far too many phantom foul calls.

97 free throws is ridiculous. That was more then Dallas'
top 3 scorers combined!





Kobe's 2009 run:

Season- (65 wins) 27/5/5

Playoffs- 30/5/6

Western Conference Finals vs Denver- 34/6/6

NBA Finals- 32/6/7 (only 44 free throws) :oldlol:


Better then anything Wade has done.

[Younggrease]

I'm a Celtics fan but I would want to use this pic.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Miami%20Heat/umadmiamiheat-kobebryant-1.jpg

Im not a fan of using pics but that kind of summed it up...Plus the fact that Kobe has beaten him out of first team all nba honors almost every year.

[HiphopRelated]

Im not a fan of using pics but that kind of summed it up...Plus the fact that Kobe has beaten him out of first team all nba honors almost every year.
sh1t's a popularity contest

Wade's gonna be 1st team all nba the next 5 years whether he "deserves" it or not.

[Younggrease]

sh1t's a popularity contest

Wade's gonna be 1st team all nba the next 5 years whether he "deserves" it or not.

then why did Durant make first team this year then?...the coaches vote on it year after year(are you saying you know better than the coaches?)

wade is one of the most popular players in the league...why could he still not make it over nash or gilbert arenas? or t-mac?

[HiphopRelated]

then why did Durant make first team this year then?...the coaches vote on it year after year(are you saying you know better than the coaches?)

wade is one of the most popular players in the league...why could he still not make it over nash or gilbert arenas? or t-mac?
Nash the 2 time MVP?

He would have made it in '07 but the shoulder injury knocked him off

he made 3rd team on only 52 games think about that..

He's made 1st team the last 2 years and that will continue barring something spectacular

[G-Funk]

Of course Kobe has more seasons of higher stats, since he has twice as many seasons under his belt including his entire prime. Not a good point.

And you use "28+" since he's had 26.6-30.2 in each of his last five seasons. Point averages, which are higher than Kobe's career average.

So my original point stands. D Wade will have better career averages than Kobe. You can be upset about that because of when Kobe started, but that was his choice. It counts against his season averages, and that's never going to change. It's what happens when you don't even go to college and try to make an early money grab.

Kobe was better than Wade from ages 17-21.
Kobe was better than Wade from ages 22-28
Kobe will be better from ages 29-35.

[Younggrease]

Nash the 2 time MVP?

He would have made it in '07 but the shoulder injury knocked him off

he made 3rd team on only 52 games think about that.

yeah i thought about it and concluded that he didnt make because people played better than him...

He wasnt good enough to beat out Nash and in 07 he was hurt(injury prone?) and again wasnt good enough.

The common denominator here is he wasnt good enough...On the other side Kobe was good enough for several years. Kobe is gonna have more rings than Wade has first team all nba appearances.

Wade just hasnt done enough up to now to ever be considered on Kobe's level. Consider also that he isnt that much younger

[5rings]

For Wade to surpass Kobe he needs to do a lot of things.

[laker24]

Kobe Bean Bryant. He is a legend:bowdown:

[SinJackal]

Do you know who followed a similar trend? Michael Jordan. Most criticized years came right before his first championship when he was putting up ridiculous numbers, his team wasn't winning, and everybody said he couldn't win. Then he won.

Kobe put up statistical greatness as well, his team wasn't winning, and everybody said he couldn't win without shaq. Then he won.

Wade has had the opportunity to try and score through the roof over the past few years when his second option was f!cking jermaine oneal. He didn't do it though.

Calling him a chucker doesn't mean anything. He put up 35+ a game on 45%. Since when is 45% fg for a shooting guard chucking? His eFG% was 49.1%. Again, I don't understand this is at all inefficient for a guy with a jumpshot heavy game at the shooting guard position.

Jordan was winning the scoring title every year, even when he won all six of his championships, so I don't really think that's a similar trend.

People said he couldn't win because he didn't have much of a team his first seasons. He wasn't being hailed by fans of his as the reason his team won titles and driving the actual player who'd been leading the team to the finals out of town. That's why his reputation was taking such a hit. Jordan never did such a thing. He was criticized since he hadn't won a title in roughly 3-4 years after starting his career. Something imo, which was unfair.

Kobe did with without Shaq. But we don't need to go in to how he only did it with a team who had the highest salary in the NBA, and other star players instead of Shaq. Everybody knows that already. Sort of a tired argument.

Wade didn't score through the roof. And? His numbers were still better than Kobe's career averages, which are all that's needed to end up with career averages above him. Something, I should hope at this point, you know is the entire point of this discussion. You keep dragging it all over the place when the only thing I said that you replied to was my statement that I felt Wade would end up with better overall career numbers than Kobe.

I was using chucker as a term for an "extreme ballhog", not as an inefficiant shooter. Kobe was taking 30+ shots a game, and barely had 4 1/2 assists. Is that not extremely high?

Anyway, dude. You keep arguing with me over stuff I wasn't even talking about to begin with. I never said Wade is, or would be better than Kobe. I in fact said Wade would not end up with a better career than Kobe. All I said was that Wade could and just might and up with better career averages than Kobe. Apparently, that's very offensive to Kobe fans, despite it being a distinct possibility.

So again. I never said Wade was better than Kobe, or that he'd be better than Kobe. People need to stop replying to me assuming I said or meant that, because I didn't.