++Karl Malone Appreciation Thread++

[Skep]

http://img.banjig.net/d/bb/user_uploads/370204/karl-malone-musculos_37134d72.jpg


Karl Malone was chosen by the Jazz in 1985 out of Louisiana Tech with the 13th overall pick in the draft. In his first season he averaged 15pts and 9rbs with the Utah Jazz. After the team decided to trade Adrian Dantley to Pistons to build around Malone, his numbers skyrocketed to 22pts 11rbs the next season.

Karl is known for being a physical and arguably dirty player that had a tough nose for the game and had an incredible scoring presence. Nicknamed the "Mailman" because he always seemed to deliver consistently in scoring defense and toughness nigh in and night out.

Malone Played 18 seasons with the Jazz and in that time he only missed 41 games. He had a drive and passion for this game and always wanted to win and succeed. Sadly he never got the one thing that was missing on his resume. A ring.

In 2003 in signed with the Lakers to try and pursue that final piece of Hardware that was missing from his All Star MVPs Gold Medal, and 2 MVP trophies. Sadly the Lakers couldnt pull it off.:D

When he decided to call it quits and retire he left the game with an astonishing. 36,928 points second all time behind Kareem in scoring. His career average was 25.0 pts 10.0 rebounds.

This year Malone is being inducted into the Naismith Basketball Hall Of Fame. He is well deserving. He was an epitome for what basketball players should be. And in my mind the best PF to ever play this game.

Karl Malone, "Mailman" we will never see someone like you again!



Karl Malone`s Achievements:

2 x NBA MVP (1997, 1999)
13 x NBA All-Star (1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001)
11 x All-NBA First Team Selection (1989-1999)
2 x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1988, 2000)
1 x All-NBA Third Team Selection (2001)
3 x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1997-1999)
1 x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1988)
1986 NBA All-Rookie Team
2 x NBA All-Star MVP (1989, 1993)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team



http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/nba/2006/0323/photo/a_malone_275.jpg

[Mr. Jabbar]

Great player. Too bad the most recent memories I got from him are in that ring chasing lakers team that got involved in the biggest upset in nba finals history.

[keep-itreal]

may i also add that he delivered a crushing blow on isiah thomas' head, nearly cracked his head

[BankShot]

Tough, dedicated, and consistently great.

I'd love to see him in today's guarding and being guarded by the likes Dirk, Bosh, Bargnani, and Villanueva. He'd make them cry.

:cheers:

[Skep]

Few highlights mixes(Not a lot and the music is shit)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJXB43eBDwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-2w5cv8nM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IASPaR9OIGs&feature=related

[Kblaze8855]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan **** Karl Malone.

Short of Pistol Pete and Joe Namath...the most overrated athlete in american sports history*.

If I want 27 and 12 and to lose when it matters ill get it from someone who didnt get a middle school girl pregnant when he was a grown man.




*may or may not actually believe

[Skep]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan **** Karl Malone.

Short of Pistol Pete and Joe Namath...the most overrated athlete in american sports history*.

If I want 27 and 12 and to lose when it matters ill get it from someone who didnt get a middle school girl pregnant when he was a grown man.




*may or may not actually believe


You are an idiot. Its an appreciation thread. Take your opinion that is neither credible nor anyone gives a shit about else where.

[BankShot]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan **** Karl Malone.

Short of Pistol Pete and Joe Namath...the most overrated athlete in american sports history*.

If I want 27 and 12 and to lose when it matters ill get it from someone who didnt get a middle school girl pregnant when he was a grown man.




*may or may not actually believe

LOL lose when it matters.... he went toe to toe with Jordan a number of times and lost. If you're gonna lose theres no shame in losing to one of the GOATs.

As for the pregnant middle schooler, if you can't separate their greatness on the court with their poor decisions off the court, then you need to really examine everyone's decisions, not just those you don't care for.

[ProfessorMurder]

Woah you two guys getting upset clearly didn't see the last line:


*may or may not actually believe


I'm 98% sure he does not believe that.




Anyway, Malone is one of my 5 favorite all time players. He was awesome, consistent, and straight up bad ass. He would destroy people like Bosh if he was playing in today's game.

[Kblaze8855]

You are an idiot. Its an appreciation thread. Take your opinion that is neither credible nor anyone gives a shit about else where.

I dont see much to appreciate. A bigman who made a living off making shots spoon fed to him, hitting people smaller than him ,and losing when it matters often in head scratching upsets(he has 3-4 50+ win first round losses...including as a 61 win team).

He just isnt that impressive on an all time level.

As for claims he lost to Jordan...

He lost to Jordan 2 times in...19 years?

Karl Malone lost to the NBa. He lost to Kevin Johnson. tim Hardaway. Kemp. Hakeem. I think Rasheed. He lost to Dirk.

He lost to everyone. Jordan beating him twice doesnt mean hes the reason he couldnt get over the hump. Malone spent 17 other years losing when it mattered.

he was an overrated everything. Well...most things. he was an overrated passer whos entire reputation is based on over the shoulder looks to cutters and it took him like 8 years to be good at that. Hes an overrated rebounder. I dont think he averaged 10 a game after like...95. He went like 10 years without being a bigtime rebounder. He was getting old but great rebounders dont lose it to age that often. Rodman and Barkley were dominating the boards in their last years because they were great rebounders. He was an overrated defender who lived off swipes and putting a body on people so they couldnt get straight to shoot. He had slow feet most of his career, couldnt protect the basket/prevent drives as much as hit you when you got there, and his shot blocking was never special.

His offense was....being on the other end of John Stockton and about 2 moves in the post. A couple nice moves off the spin in his youth and looking over his shoulder twice before firing a fadeaway that went in like 40% of the time by his prime.

All Karl Malone did on an all time level was finish in traffic(that I have nothing negative to say about...he finished shots many others couldnt dream of).

Thats it. Karl Malone was arguably the best finisher of all time and he had great hands as he matured.

The rest is overrated.

He was great at what he did. But what he did wasnt reliable enough to lean on hism when it matters. Which is why he scored 2 points in the second half of a close finals game when hes the "mvp" and thats why he didnt deliver on Sundays.

[1987_Lakers]

Kblaze time to do a Sidney Moncrief mix.:D

[ut_jazz]

Hammer Dunk mix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVnBIIlCJKo

[godofgods]

Malone used to be the GOAT PF until he joined the Fakers.
Then he dropped to 10th.

[ut_jazz]

He just isnt that impressive on an all time level.

He scored more points in his career than Michael Jordan, tell me that isn't impressive on a all time level. #1 All time is of course Greg Ostertag who was spoon fed everything from Stockton into becoming the biggest offensive force the NBA has ever seen

ok that last part may not be true, but you get my point

[Kblaze8855]

I know he was a good player. Great even. But everything about him screams either overrated, choker, or just....jackass. I mean really...


He has at least 3 kids none of them he would accept right away. The first 2 he violated a court order for a DNA test on and only after that did neh acknowledge they were his. He didnt accept them into his life till years later

His other kid is now in the NFL....and he didnt meet him till he was 18. He knew about him too. He met the kid and according to him one of the first things he told him was "Its too late to be your father" and told him he wouldnt be giving him any money. Thats whats onhis mind after not seeing his child for 18 years.

He helped push Magic out of the NBA when his comeback was going great. magic actually played the 93 preseason. Karl and others helped force him out

He was voted the dirtiest player in the NBA by both players and fans(last vote he got 32% of the vote....only one other player had as many as half his votes). Dude just breaks the face of a guy 100 pounds and 8 inches smaller than him over percieved disrespect of Stockton when Isiah gave him like 40 over him getting picked for the dream team and not Isiah. Nique flat out called hi ma cheap shot artisto ut to hurt people smaller than him.

And on top of it...the mother of the 3rd kid he went deadbeat on....was 11 or 12 when they were together. Whe nhe was 20 or 21.

And that isnt bad enough...

He lost in the playoffs 19 years in a row, choked under pressure at the Ft line and in active play, and somehow...

Got called classy the whole way.

Karl Malone is an example of so much wrong with the sports world. A dirty player, deadbeat dad, child molester who only gets praise due to sports...and he failed to win at that. 19 times.

Too many athletes are assholes and dont get called on it due to their greatness. Karl set a new standards(at least for things we know).

I wont watch him praised without saying what I think is beyond all argument...


Hes a chold molesting, deadbeat, bully, choker.

And if you need to praise him in spite of it over getting 14 thousand layups from John Stockton so be it.

But he did enough shiot that it justifies mentioning every time he comes up.

[lakers_forever]

I know he was a good player. Great even. But everything about him screams either overrated, choker, or just....jackass. I mean really...


He has at least 3 kids none of them he would accept right away. The first 2 he violated a court order for a DNA test on and only after that did neh acknowledge they were his. He didnt accept them into his life till years later

His other kid is now in the NFL....and he didnt meet him till he was 18. He knew about him too. He met the kid and according to him one of the first things he told him was "Its too late to be your father" and told him he wouldnt be giving him any money. Thats whats onhis mind after not seeing his child for 18 years.

He helped push Magic out of the NBA when his comeback was going great. magic actually played the 93 preseason. Karl and others helped force him out

He was voted the dirtiest player in the NBA by both players and fans(last vote he got 32% of the vote....only one other player had as many as half his votes). Dude just breaks the face of a guy 100 pounds and 8 inches smaller than him over percieved disrespect of Stockton when Isiah gave him like 40 over him getting picked for the dream team and not Isiah. Nique flat out called hi ma cheap shot artisto ut to hurt people smaller than him.

And on top of it...the mother of the 3rd kid he went deadbeat on....was 11 or 12 when they were together. Whe nhe was 20 or 21.

And that isnt bad enough...

He lost in the playoffs 19 years in a row, choked under pressure at the Ft line and in active play, and somehow...

Got called classy the whole way.

Karl Malone is an example of so much wrong with the sports world. A dirty player, deadbeat dad, child molester who only gets praise due to sports...and he failed to win at that. 19 times.

Too many athletes are assholes and dont get called on it due to their greatness. Karl set a new standards(at least for things we know).

I wont watch him praised without saying what I think is beyond all argument...


Hes a chold molesting, deadbeat, bully, choker.

And if you need to praise him in spite of it over getting 14 thousand layups from John Stockton so be it.

But he did enough shiot that it justifies mentioning every time he comes up.

:cry:

If Jordan actually murders his whole family, he won't stop being the greatest player of all time. Stop that crap. Nothing that happen off court erases his body of work on the court.

Karl Malone was a great, great player, easily top 20 ever. Greater than Stockton who was never the undisputed best PG in the league.

[lakers_forever]

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/malonedunk.jpg

[Disaprine]

one of the best of all time. :applause:

Kblaze hatin :roll:

[godofgods]

He helped push Magic out of the NBA when his comeback was going great. magic actually played the 93 preseason. Karl and others helped force him out

Dude just breaks the face of a guy 100 pounds and 8 inches smaller than him over percieved disrespect of Stockton when Isiah gave him like 40 over him getting picked for the dream team and not Isiah.

Now, Isiah was just asking for it, he was being a whiny beyotch.

Karl wasn't the only one responsible to end Magic's comeback like you said, but he seems to be the one being 'blamed' for the good deed.

[team_diva]

DIRTIEST PLAYER EVER.

does not deserve an appreciation thread at all.

[lakers_forever]

Now, Isiah was just asking for it, he was being a whiny beyotch.

Karl wasn't the only one responsible to end Magic's comeback like you said, but he seems to be the one being 'blamed' for the good deed.

It's easy to judge now. Back then, people did not that much about HIV. How you could get it and so on. Plus infected people dying in months... Again, Easy to judge now.

[Gotterdammerung]

Kblaze you're one of my favorite posters here, but I think you're being too unfair to Karl Malone.


I dont see much to appreciate. A bigman who made a living off making shots spoon fed to him, hitting people smaller than him ,and losing when it matters often in head scratching upsets(he has 3-4 50+ win first round losses...including as a 61 win team).
Yes, but that loss was to the 1995 Rockets. No shame in losing to a team that vastly underperformed during the season, and came alive with the unstoppable Hakeem and Clyde who just drank from the fountain of youth.


Karl Malone lost to the NBa. He lost to Kevin Johnson. tim Hardaway. Kemp. Hakeem. I think Rasheed. He lost to Dirk.
He would have beaten sheed in 2004 had he not injured his knee. No question.


he was an overrated everything. Well...most things. he was an overrated passer whos entire reputation is based on over the shoulder looks to cutters and it took him like 8 years to be good at that. Hes an overrated rebounder. I dont think he averaged 10 a game after like...95. He went like 10 years without being a bigtime rebounder. He was getting old but great rebounders dont lose it to age that often. Rodman and Barkley were dominating the boards in their last years because they were great rebounders. He was an overrated defender who lived off swipes and putting a body on people so they couldnt get straight to shoot. He had slow feet most of his career, couldnt protect the basket/prevent drives as much as hit you when you got there, and his shot blocking was never special.
I agree there were spots in his game in the later years (lousy rebounding, probably due to becoming a better jump shooter and a turnaround fadeaway that took him away from the basket). But I remember him being so hard to guard in the early 90's when he routinely got teams' entire frontcourt in foul trouble.

But you're being horribly unfair to a consistent finisher who never took games off or always played hurt, and tho he played with Stockton, the ultimate cookie-feeder, his teams never got over the hump. That hump was always a more creative team, a hungrier team, and a smarter team that didn't fall for Sloan's bully-boy tactics.

I could say that he was not the type who could play great while angry, and that made him less of an unstoppable force in the playoffs. The Bulls in 97 and 98 knew that Malone was not gonna beat them one on one - even if he blew up for 45 once and 39 another time. That's like 2 games in 12 vs the great Bulls. All you're doing is condemning Malone for not being something he never could be. He couldn't win the title by himself (means his team needs to be stronger) nor could he stay healthy in 2004 which would be the ultimate feather in his cap.

Personally i think Malone is probably the 3rd or 4th best power forward of all time, and that's nothing to sneeze at. :hammerhead:

[SinJackal]

http://img.banjig.net/d/bb/user_uploads/370204/karl-malone-musculos_37134d72.jpg

Get your tickets to the gun show. Starting at $5.



may i also add that he delivered a crushing blow on isiah thomas' head, nearly cracked his head

+5 for Malone.

[Kblaze8855]

If Jordan actually murders his whole family, he won't stop being the greatest player of all time. Stop that crap. Nothing that happen off court erases his body of work on the court.

People will defend anything if an athlete did it. That people leap to say "So what?" about this guy is a joke. Line has to be drawn at some point. And I draw it well before deadbeat dad who has sex with children.

I thought he was overrated his whole career and delighted in his failure year after year after year after year after year....but along with being one of the least clutch least reliabe when it matters great players of all time...

Turns out he abandoned his kids and ****ed a middle schooler?

Nothing to defend about that man.

On the floor hes overrated and off it hes...as far as the evidence we have....a sex offender who didnt provide for his children.

Forgive me for not giving him props for it.

[OrlandoAnderson]

Utah fans always got their mail on time, gotta appreciate that..

[JtotheIzzo]

growing up a Barkley fan I am predisposed to hating Malone.

black redneck (like a bizzaro world White Chocolate)
steroids (why this NEVER gets brought up is beyond me)
cheap shots (he and Stockton were the two worst of their era)
lame hand on the back of the head dunk (enough said)
Duncan's MVP they gave to Malone (travesty)

but I do have to admit, he was a killer. used his size to get to the line all night and was EXTREMELY effective.

because of this I think he ranks higher than Barkley all time, though there is zero doubt in my mind Barkley was a better player.

My favorite Malone stretch was in his second year, when the upstart Jazz took a prime Lakers team to 7 games in the WCSF. It was a huge shock at the time and no one on the Lakers had any clue what to do with The Mailman. That was his coming out party.

[FCN]

Malone was great, no question.

He is not the best PF ever tho.
That distinction is held by McHale IMHO.

Malone is top 3 PF tho...

[Gotterdammerung]

People will defend anything if an athlete did it. That people leap to say "So what?" about this guy is a joke. Line has to be drawn at some point. And I draw it well before deadbeat dad who has sex with children. I thought he was overrated his whole career and delighted in his failure year after year after year after year after year....but along with being one of the least clutch least reliabe when it matters great players of all time... Turns out he abandoned his kids and ****ed a middle schooler? Nothing to defend about that man. On the floor hes overrated and off it hes...as far as the evidence we have....a sex offender who didnt provide for his children. Forgive me for not giving him props for it.
You seem unable to distinguish Karl Malone the basketball player from Karl Malone the role model. That's your problem, but the rest of us will remember a great player and give him props for that alone. He may have indeed been a shit-heel off-court but that doesn't cancel his reputation on the court. That you're fixated on his off-court failures say more about you than anything else.

OJ Simpson may have killed his wife, but he's still a great football player. Still in the Hall of the Fame. So's the mailman.

[SinJackal]

People will defend anything if an athlete did it. That people leap to say "So what?" about this guy is a joke. Line has to be drawn at some point. And I draw it well before deadbeat dad who has sex with children.

I thought he was overrated his whole career and delighted in his failure year after year after year after year after year....but along with being one of the least clutch least reliabe when it matters great players of all time...

Turns out he abandoned his kids and ****ed a middle schooler?

Nothing to defend about that man.

On the floor hes overrated and off it hes...as far as the evidence we have....a sex offender who didnt provide for his children.

Forgive me for not giving him props for it.

The stuff he did off the court has nothing to do with what happened on it. You may not like him, but that doesn't mean he was anywhere close to being a bad ballplayer. He was a force in the playoffs, and easily one of the best players ever.

He was also, never overrated at any point.

Dude put up a 31/11 season on 56% FG% and 37% 3pt%. Rarely missed a game a day in his life. Was an elite, or near elite player every year of his career.

How is that overrated exactly?

[Kblaze8855]

You seem unable to distinguish Karl Malone the basketball player from Karl Malone the role model. That's your problem, but the rest of us will remember a great player and give him props for that alone. He may have indeed been a shit-heel off-court but that doesn't cancel his reputation on the court. That you're fixated on his off-court failures say more about you than anything else.

That I acknowledge a child molesters status as such even whe nhes an athlete does say something about me....I dont feel its anything bad though. Im good with it.

I call a spade a spade. And dude is a deadbeat dad, bully, who had a baby with a girl in middle school. And a career of amusing playoff failures dont make up for it to me.

A lot of players have faults off the court. Jordan sure did.

But there are few if any I know of on the level of Karl Malone.

Id take a wife beatero n my team before an adult who sleeps with kids.



OJ Simpson may have killed his wife, but he's still a great football player. Still in the Hall of the Fame. So's the mailman.

Nobody ever heard me say he isnt a great player.

Hes just overrated, unreliable down the stretch due to the nature of his scoring, and overall a jackass who helped keep Magic out of the league, played dirty, had sex with children, and tried to avoid taking responsibility for all 3 of his children.

But ive said before...nobody overrated is a bad player because bad players barely get rated to begin with.

[Stringer Bell]

growing up a Barkley fan I am predisposed to hating Malone.

black redneck (like a bizzaro world White Chocolate)
steroids (why this NEVER gets brought up is beyond me)
cheap shots (he and Stockton were the two worst of their era)
lame hand on the back of the head dunk (enough said)
Duncan's MVP they gave to Malone (travesty)

but I do have to admit, he was a killer. used his size to get to the line all night and was EXTREMELY effective.

because of this I think he ranks higher than Barkley all time, though there is zero doubt in my mind Barkley was a better player.

My favorite Malone stretch was in his second year, when the upstart Jazz took a prime Lakers team to 7 games in the WCSF. It was a huge shock at the time and no one on the Lakers had any clue what to do with The Mailman. That was his coming out party.

You left out child molester.

Great player though.

[SinJackal]

I think we need to leave out all the bringing up of dirty laundry for players every time they're mentioned. Too many players have done things that are shady, we don't need to clog the boards with that crap.

[Round Mound]

Barkley was the Better Player in both their primes before his injuries yet Malone stayed healthier and it was good to see him battle with the 3rd GOAT PG against the Bulls

Player Comparison Barkley vs Malone ages 22-31/32 (1985-1996)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=barklch01&y1=1995&p2=malonka01&y2=1995

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=barklch01&y1=1996&p2=malonka01&y2=1996

I miss the Stockton to Malone it was onstoppable :cry:

Malone would tare up the league today with FTAs (the way its gotten soft) and Barkley under zone rules is probably the biggest mistake you could make. You had totally double between the paint and the mid range region or die.

[Kblaze8855]

He was also, never overrated at any point.

He won the MVP over Michael Jordan. That isnt him being overrated?


Dude put up a 31/11 season on 56% FG% and 37% 3pt%. Rarely missed a game a day in his life. Was an elite, or near elite player every year of his career.

How is that overrated exactly?

If its taken at face value its overrated because virtually everything you listed paints a misleading picture of his ability.

31ppg. great. And I mean that. Doesnt mean he was an elite scorer. Elite scorers need to be reliable. He ran the floor well, found holes in the D, played great of fthe ball, and could score one on one.....

But if he could score at will at the rate being a 30ppg scorer suggests he wouldnt have so many cases of fading when it matters. he was an oppourtunistic scorer on a team that provided many. But you cant pull one out of a hat to win the game when you nee to. Dude scored 31 a game but could never deliver when it counted at the rate of say...Tim Duncan...who never approached 30ppg. Or Hakeem. Who peaked at 27. Or even Reggie Miller who scored like...24 at his peak?

He scored high totals every game because Stockton fed him in good position and they ran all day. John Stockton averaged 15 assists a game the season he scored 31ppg. Should I pretend thats by chance?

The 11 rebounds....he was playing on a team with Eaton getting low minutes...and Thurl Bailey who never rebounded worth a damn. On a team in a division that ran its ass off. There were 6 teams in his conference over 110 a game. And 2 in his division that gave up 1220ppg. Not a typo.

2 teams in Karl Malones division....gave up 120ppg. Which isnt including the Nuggets who just gave up 113....which would be blown away by the 131ppgg they gave up the next year. Added to that...an 8th of his season was against expansion teams in his division. He put up 36 and 10 and 35/13 vs those expansion teams by the way.

He(and Stockton) were feasting on bad defenses and both of them put up better numbers than their ability would normally result in. I love John Stockton...but nobody is just...17/15 good. Thats a system/situation and bad defense and/or high powered offenses giving many possessions to work with.

He was never as good a scorer as his numbers.

What good is 28ppg when you score 1 point in the 4th in the finals because your opponent isnt giving you your usual easy looks? What good is being the second leading scorer of all time when you step to the line with the game tied and 9 seconds left in the finals. And miss both free throws before Jordan jogs down and calmly makes the game winner?

Dude wasnt as good at anything as his numbers suggest.

And that "Look at the numbers!" approach isa major reason hes overrated. Tim Duncan never put up prime Malonesn umber. But if I throw it to him down 2 with a minute to go hes scoring with the and 1.

When I can rely on a 22ppg scorer more than a 28....of what use are the 6 extra points?

I watched Karl Malone. I know what he was capable of.

He was an outstanding finisher, a good passer in his prime, a good man to man defender mostly due to his constant fouling forcing the refs to let it go or foul him out nightly, a good but not great rebounder, and one of the best off the ball players ive ever seen. And his hands were fantastic.

Pair that with a guy who could find Bin laden(if he were open), a system that would force him the ball, a conference(league really) full of teams running their asses off and hes gonna put up digits.

I never said he couldnt produce.

I said he wasnt reliable when it mattered. And 19 years of failing makes me feel pretty good about that.

[Kblaze8855]

I think we need to leave out all the bringing up of dirty laundry for players every time they're mentioned. Too many players have done things that are shady, we don't need to clog the boards with that crap.

And that is why these people arent punished.

The who cares response when it comes to sports stars.

Lebron is damn near cricified for joining the wrong team....

But we need to clean up the bashing of child molesters?

[darius15]

He was very consistent, only problem was his constant choking.

But a great player to watch no doubt.:cheers:

[Doctor K]

As for claims he lost to Jordan...

He lost to Jordan 2 times in...19 years?

Karl Malone lost to the NBa. He lost to Kevin Johnson. tim Hardaway. Kemp. Hakeem. I think Rasheed. He lost to Dirk.

He lost to everyone. Jordan beating him twice doesnt mean hes the reason he couldnt get over the hump. Malone spent 17 other years losing when it mattered.

Had Jordan been out of the league in 97 & 98 instead of 94 & 95.....we would've said the same about Hakeem. "Ok he lost 2 to Jordan, what about the rest of his career"....And Malone would be the great one. It's all timing dude.

Hakeem spent the rest of his career but 2 losing. Oscar spent his whole career besides 1 losing. He is still Top 10 or 15. And the one he won was because of a PEAK Kareem. How about Moses? He spent his whole career but 1 losing. He is still Top 15. And I could go on.

But the point is, many greats spend MOST of their careers losing. What the other guy was trying to say is Malone is ringless because of the GOAT. All these other guys didn't have to face the GOAT in the Finals. Malone did.

[falc39]

And that is why these people arent punished.

The who cares response when it comes to sports stars.

Lebron is damn near cricified for joining the wrong team....

But we need to clean up the bashing of child molesters?

:applause:

[Kblaze8855]

Moses took a .500 team to the finals and won 65 games and damn near swept the playoffs the first season he had a good shot at it. Oscar was against a team that won 11 rings in 13 years and the 1 time they didnt make the finals the greatest team of all time to that point stopped them(67 76ers). That was in Oscars way just to make the finals(early 60s on...before that the ywerei n the west with the West/Baylor lakers). Karl was blocked by teams who themselves were not that good. he lost to the warriors, Suns, and so on. He lost to teams who arent coming up in talks of the best ever...or even of their era. Karl lost to everyone.

And you do know Karl was in the league when Jordan left too right?

And he had a 61 win team...that Hakeem beat...in the first round...as the 7th seed. I think 7th.

We pretending Hakeem got a break Malone didnt? hakeem won because he took it. Karl didnt take it because he couldnt. He took his 61 win team and lost in the first round with it while Jordan was out of the way. Hakeem beat them easily both years.

Not like one got the chance and the other didnt.

[Doctor K]

Moses took a .500 team to the finals and won 65 games and damn near swept the playoffs the first season he had a good shot at it. Oscar was against a team that won 11 rings in 13 years and the 1 time they didnt make the finals the greatest team of all time to that point stopped them(67 76ers). That was in Oscars way just to make the finals. Karl was blocked by teams who themselves were not that good. he lost to the warriors, Suns, and so on. He lost to teams who arent coming up in talks of the best ever...or even of their era. Karl lost to everyone.


How about all the years Oscar MISSED the playoffs. Consecutive years too. Karl Malone and the Jazz made the playoffs every season of his career. Oscar was stopped by other teams besides just Boston and Philly too. Besides, his team was always a low-seed so they were basically asking for Boston or Philly. Many 1st round exits facing Boston and Philly. Is this supposed to be an excuse? "We were low-seed and had to face great teams like Boston and Philly every year". That's NOT a good thing dude.

But many times Oscar was just sitting at home watching playoffs and not contending. Sometimes with HOF teammates with him. So don't blame the team. At least Malone got his team to the playoffs every year. Oscar got a break at the end of his career playing with a peak Kareem, something Malone was never fortunate enough to have.




And you do know Karl was in the league with Jordan left too right?

And he had a 61 wim team...that Hakeem beat...in the first round...as the 7th seed. I think 7th.

We pretending Hakeem got a break Malone didnt. hakeem won because he took it. Karl didnt take it because he couldnt. He took his 61 win team and lose in the first round with it while Jordan was out of the way. Hakeem beat them easily both years.

Not like one got the chance and the other didnt.

Once again it's all about timing. Houston beat Utah in 95. Utah beat Houston in 97. Houston got to face Orlando in the Finals. Utah got to face Chicago in the Finals.

So really, between Houston-Utah it was even. However, which team got the benefit in the Finals? Houston. I mean, H2H they were even. However, one team was simply more LUCKIER than the other. It's not like they deserved to face an easier opponent, it was all luck.

Circumstances. It's all Circumstances. If the scenario was reversed, today you would be saying "What did Hakeem do when Jordan was gone (97), nothing, they lost to Utah, he lost to everyone".

[playtetris]

i love hearing kblaze dismantle karl malone. it's like joey zaza with marion (anyone remember that?) :lol

[Kblaze8855]

How about all the years Oscar MISSED the playoffs. Consecutive years too. Karl Malone and the Jazz made the playoffs every season of his career. Oscar was stopped by other teams besides just Boston and Philly too. Besides, his team was always a low-seed so they were basically asking for Boston or Philly. Many 1st round exits facing Boston and Philly. Is this supposed to be an excuse? "We were low-seed and had to face great teams like Boston and Philly every year". That's NOT a good thing dude.

But many times Oscar was just sitting at home watching playoffs and not contending. Sometimes with HOF teammates with him. So don't blame the team. At least Malone got his team to the playoffs every year.

Really not seeing the relevance. For one...Oscar was in a league with less teams and less teams making the playoffs. Second...you are pretty much pointing out that most players fail to win. Which isnt anything ive argued against.

Most great players dont win. But most also dont lose as often as Karl in situations he probably shouldnt or should at least have a better showing. And there are 137 hall of fame players last I checked. You can be HOF worthy and be very overrated. I didnt say he shouldnt be in the HOF. I said hes overrated. And considering what he did with the chances he was given and where hes generally ranked...I feel good about saying it.



Once again it's all about timing. Houston beat Utah in 95. Utah beat Houston in 97. Houston got to face Orlando in the Finals. Utah got to face Chicago in the Finals.

Timing? its about stepping up when you get your chances. Which is what players who win do. Everyone is to an extent a slave to circumstance. But Hakeem and Karl had the exact same chances. They came in a year apart and retired a couple years apart. They shared the same league most of the time. Hakeem got to 3 finals and won 2 of them. They both got a shot at it without Jordan in the way and Hakeem knocked Karl out of the way 2 times.

He took the ring by playing well when it counted. Karl didnt. That is the difference.


So really, between Houston-Utah it was even. However, which team got the benefit in the Finals? Houston.



Circumstances. It's all Circumstances. If the scenario was reversed, today you would be saying "What did Hakeem do when Jordan was gone (97), nothing, they lost to Utah, he lost to everyone".

So if reality were not reality...things would be different? If...say...Karl didnt lose with a 61 win team in the first round...and got to the finals(assuming I suppose that he would make the finals had he won the first round...despite no evidence to suggest it)...and won...his legacy is different?

What is that even telling me?

Of course reality is different if it were a fantasy world. It isnt.

And Karl didnt lose by chance. Karl was out ther missing FTs in a tied game with 9 seconds to go in the finals, scoring 1 point in 4th quarters, 4 points in halves, losing his cool vs rodman and getting generally outplayed in the clutch.

Karl fades and Hakeem is out there with his back against the wall getting the steal and sinking both FTs and then rushing out and blocking Starks jumper to win the title. Hakeem is out there winning finals games with tip ins and Karl is watching other people win them after he turns it over.

Hakeem won because he played better.

And it wasnt by chance.

You get the chance...you take it. They got the same chances. Hakeem took his and ran. Karl watched Hakeem run off.

[Doctor K]

I'm just saying Houston was more LUCKIER than Utah. Can we not deny this?

I made this edit in my last post, but I'll post it here.

Houston beat Utah in 95. Utah beat Houston in 97. Even. Houston got to face Orlando in the Finals. Utah had to face the 69 win Bulls in the Finals. Can't we say Houston was luckier than Utah? It's not like they deserved an easier opponent. They just received an easier opponent. It's almost like winning the lottery and receiving a higher pick. The lottery balls came in Houston's favor. Not Utah's. Not Malone or Hakeem have anything to do with who they face.


And it's not like Malone or Hakeem are going to play harder because Jordan is not in the league. It's playoffs, and both Utah and Houston are going to give it their best, and the same, whether Jordan is in the league or not.


At the end of the day, Hakeem was fortunate and received NY and ORL the 2 years he made it to the Finals. Malone was unfortunate and received the GOAT 2 years in a row. Did he deserve tougher opponents? No. Did Hakeem deserve easier opponents? No. It's all luck.

[SinJackal]

He won the MVP over Michael Jordan. That isnt him being overrated?



If its taken at face value its overrated because virtually everything you listed paints a misleading picture of his ability.

31ppg. great. And I mean that. Doesnt mean he was an elite scorer. Elite scorers need to be reliable. He ran the floor well, found holes in the D, played great of fthe ball, and could score one on one.....

But if he could score at will at the rate being a 30ppg scorer suggests he wouldnt have so many cases of fading when it matters. he was an oppourtunistic scorer on a team that provided many. But you cant pull one out of a hat to win the game when you nee to. Dude scored 31 a game but could never deliver when it counted at the rate of say...Tim Duncan...who never approached 30ppg. Or Hakeem. Who peaked at 27. Or even Reggie Miller who scored like...24 at his peak?

He scored high totals every game because Stockton fed him in good position and they ran all day. John Stockton averaged 15 assists a game the season he scored 31ppg. Should I pretend thats by chance?

The 11 rebounds....he was playing on a team with Eaton getting low minutes...and Thurl Bailey who never rebounded worth a damn. On a team in a division that ran its ass off. There were 6 teams in his conference over 110 a game. And 2 in his division that gave up 1220ppg. Not a typo.

2 teams in Karl Malones division....gave up 120ppg. Which isnt including the Nuggets who just gave up 113....which would be blown away by the 131ppgg they gave up the next year. Added to that...an 8th of his season was against expansion teams in his division. He put up 36 and 10 and 35/13 vs those expansion teams by the way.

He(and Stockton) were feasting on bad defenses and both of them put up better numbers than their ability would normally result in. I love John Stockton...but nobody is just...17/15 good. Thats a system/situation and bad defense and/or high powered offenses giving many possessions to work with.

He was never as good a scorer as his numbers.

What good is 28ppg when you score 1 point in the 4th in the finals because your opponent isnt giving you your usual easy looks? What good is being the second leading scorer of all time when you step to the line with the game tied and 9 seconds left in the finals. And miss both free throws before Jordan jogs down and calmly makes the game winner?

Dude wasnt as good at anything as his numbers suggest.

And that "Look at the numbers!" approach isa major reason hes overrated. Tim Duncan never put up prime Malonesn umber. But if I throw it to him down 2 with a minute to go hes scoring with the and 1.

When I can rely on a 22ppg scorer more than a 28....of what use are the 6 extra points?

I watched Karl Malone. I know what he was capable of.

He was an outstanding finisher, a good passer in his prime, a good man to man defender mostly due to his constant fouling forcing the refs to let it go or foul him out nightly, a good but not great rebounder, and one of the best off the ball players ive ever seen. And his hands were fantastic.

Pair that with a guy who could find Bin laden(if he were open), a system that would force him the ball, a conference(league really) full of teams running their asses off and hes gonna put up digits.

I never said he couldnt produce.

I said he wasnt reliable when it mattered. And 19 years of failing makes me feel pretty good about that.

When did Malone fade when it matters? He was good in the playoffs as often, or more often than far more celebrated, supposed "good playoff performers" of today. That is a fallacy.

And like him or not, Malone scored well on everyone, at a high percentage. You can only downplay his greatness so much before people just look at you with a "wtf are you talking about?" face.

It's obvious you have a massive amount of hate for him, and it's clearly effecting your ability to have a non biased view of him.



And that is why these people arent punished.

The who cares response when it comes to sports stars.

Lebron is damn near cricified for joining the wrong team....

But we need to clean up the bashing of child molesters?

Did I say he shouldn't be punished? Ever?

No. I said, and I quote,


I think we need to leave out all the bringing up of dirty laundry for players every time they're mentioned. Too many players have done things that are shady, we don't need to clog the boards with that crap.

A lot of players, including current ones. . .including current stars even, have done very shady things. What is the point of bringing it up when talking about their games? You aren't absolving people of their sins by excluding them in a debate about how they played in a sport. It just doesn't belong in the conversation.

Should MJ's problems with his family be brought up any time he's spoken about?

Should the countless players who have had drug problems be smeared because of past issues when (or "if) it never effected their game?

Should be people always talk about how Kobe raped some chick whenever there's a topic about him?

Should we talk about how Dwight Howard flashed some Mariah Cary look-alikeporn star in some scrub dude from N'Sync's house any time we talk about him?

Should we talk about how Shaq banged Gilbert Arenas' fiancee (allegedly), or the multiple other crappy things he's done?

Should we always talk about LeBron's mom any time we speak the name Delonte West?

No. . .no to all of that. The board would be filled with gossip and heresay, rather than actual basketball discussion. That's all I was saying. I'm not trying to give any of them a pass for things they've done.

[Kblaze8855]

First of all...

Houston only beat utah in 97 because Stockton scored their last 9 points including the 3 to send them to the finals. You could see the "Im not gonna defer to this guy anymore" in him. Dude just took over and drug Karl to the finals that first time.

Second....the Jazz had a better record than the Bulls in 98. The Bulls were taken to 7 by the Pacers. They were not some invincible team. But Karl helped make them look like it by folding down the stretch. If the Bulls couldnt lose they wouldnt have been in position for Karl to beat them had he stepped up.

You talk about luck and I talk about basketball. If Karl wants to win perhaps he shouldnt miss 2 FTs to win game 1? Or maybe not turn the ball over seconds before Jordan hits the title winner in 98? Or not allow his team to score 58 in a finals game?

Hakeem didnt cake walk to the finals He got there as a 7th seed on the road the whole way and won close games many of them by personally stepping up. He personally kept the Knicks from winning the title in 94. He blocked the TITLE WINNING shot by Starks. Won them the game at the buzzer in OT vs the Magic. Hakeem WON the titles.

Karl fumbled away any chance he had to win. Hakeem went through him and stepped up to take the titles.

That isnt luck. Its basketball.

[Skep]

First of all...

Houston only beat utah in 97 because Stockton scored their last 9 points including the 3 to send them to the finals.


You realize that was game 6? Even if the Jazz wouldve lost they still wouldve had game 7 in SLC.

[Kblaze8855]

So...you compare a rape accusation we have no evidence of either way, a guy showing his dick to a porn star, 2 people who may have slept with someones elses loved one and drug addiction....to the verified facts that he had to be taken to court to claim his first 2 kid abandoned his third and the mother of the 3rd was 12 when she had the child and he was a grown man?

You talking claims, tabloid scandal, and so on. Im talking facts.

About a guy ive seen called the model of class.

If a guy doesnt want to be called a child molester he shouldnt have sex with kids.

I will not try to downplay what he is because people dont bring up Dwight Howard showing his dick to a porn star.

[Doctor K]

First of all...

Houston only beat utah in 97 because Stockton scored their last 9 points including the 3 to send them to the finals. You could see the "Im not gonna defer to this guy anymore" in him. Dude just took over and drug Karl to the finals that first time.

Second....the Jazz had a better record than the Bulls in 98. The Bulls were taken to 7 by the Pacers. They were not some invincible team. But Karl helped make them look like it by folding down the stretch. If the Bulls couldnt lose they wouldnt have been in position for Karl to beat them had he stepped up.

You talk about luck and I talk about basketball. If Karl wants to win perhaps he shouldnt miss 2 FTs to win game 1? Or maybe not turn the ball over seconds before Jordan hits the title winner in 98? Or not allow his team to score 58 in a finals game?

Hakeem didnt cake walk to the finals He got there as a 7th seed on the road the whole way and won close games many of them by personally stepping up. He personally kept the Knicks from winning the title in 94. He blocked the TITLE WINNING shot by Starks. Won them the game at the buzzer in OT vs the Magic. Hakeem WON the titles.

Karl fumbled away any chance he had to win. Hakeem went through him and stepped up to take the titles.

That isnt luck. Its basketball.

I think you are forgetting what luck is. It's things you have no control over that bring either fortune or misery.

Did Hakeem or Malone have any control over who they face in the Finals? No. Thus that leaves it to their luck. This isn't debatable. I'm going by the definition of what luck is.

Thus, in things neither had control over, aka luck, Hakeem and the Rockets fared MUCH better than Malone and the Jazz. And I'm talking about the teams they faced in the Finals. Both 97 and 98 Bulls were better than 94 or 95 Magic.


Because otherwise,

Both won West twice (in the 90s)
Both beat each other in a span of 2 years

But the thing they had no control over was who they faced in the Finals. The Rockets were FAR luckier than the Jazz in this aspect. And that's not even debatable.






Kblaze, I understand your point, Malone didn't step up like Hakeem did when it counted. But we can't ignore Hakeem was also luckier than Malone when it came to the big stage and winning the championship.

[Kblaze8855]

You realize that was game 6? Even if the Jazz wouldve lost they still wouldve had game 7 in SLC.

19 years of failure give me no reason to assume they would have won.

I look at the facts.

Karl scored a lot largely due to a system...and largely due to his great talent.

Karl did not come through for his team when they needed him most.

Karl is by all the evidence we have....a piece of shit.

I dont give him the benefit of the doubt on anything.

There is just no reason to.

[Skep]

19 years of failure give me no reason to assume they would have won.

I look at the facts.

Karl scored a lot largely due to a system...and largely due to his great talent.

Karl did not come through for his team when they needed him most.

Karl is by all the evidence we have....a piece of shit.

I dont give him the benefit of the doubt on anything.

There is just no reason to.

I truly think everyone is judging Karl on choking just because of one play in 98` where jordan got the steal.

He performed well in the playoffs in both 97 & 98 he averaged 26.0pts 11.4rbs 2.9assists.
they were just unfortunate in playing the GOAT

[SinJackal]

So...you compare a rape accusation we have no evidence of either way, a guy showing his dick to a porn star, 2 people who may have slept with someones elses loved one and drug addiction....to the verified facts that he had to be taken to court to claim his first 2 kid abandoned his third and the mother of the 3rd was 12 when she had the child and he was a grown man?

You talking claims, tabloid scandal, and so on. Im talking facts.

About a guy ive seen called the model of class.

If a guy doesnt want to be called a child molester he shouldnt have sex with kids.

I will not try to downplay what he is because people dont bring up Dwight Howard showing his dick to a porn star.

The fact remains, that it has nothing to do with basketball discussion. Nobody's giving Malone a humanitarian award, which is what the things he did off the court would be relevant towards.

Again, nobody is giving him a pass on what he did. I'm not sure why you think that everyone on the planet must say he was overrated on the court because of things he did off it. You seem to be on some crusade to bash this guy and are upset that people don't agree with it.

I explained why I feel the way I do, you explained the way you feel the way you do, and we don't agree with eachother. I'm not going to keep arguing about this. We don't agree. Let's leave it at that.

[Kblaze8855]

I think you are forgetting what luck is. It's things you have no control over that bring either fortune or misery.

Did Hakeem or Malone have any control over who they face in the Finals? No. Thus that leaves it to their luck. This isn't debatable. I'm going by the definition of what luck is.

Thus, in things neither had control over, aka luck, Hakeem and the Rockets fared MUCH better than Malone and the Jazz. And I'm talking about the teams they faced in the Finals. Both 97 and 98 Bulls were better than 94 or 95 Magic.


Because otherwise,

Both won West twice (in the 90s)
Both beat each other in a span of 2 years

But the thing they had no control over was who they faced in the Finals. The Rockets were FAR luckier than the Jazz in this aspect. And that's not even debatable.

The luck goes out the window once I consider the fact that the Jazz got beat by the Rockets on the way to the finals. ITs not lucky the Rockets made it in 94 and 95. It was BASKETBALL. If they played better...basketball....they wouldnt have had Jordan in their way for 2 years. But they didnt.

And because of inferior basketball playing you bring up the luck in who Houston got after they sent Utah home?




Kblaze, I understand your point, Malone didn't step up like Hakeem did when it counted. But we can't ignore Hakeem was also luckier than Malone when it came to the big stage and winning the championship.

He would be luckier if they were not in the same league playing eachother in the playoffs. Its not luck they beat the jazz. Its basketball. so the jazz won in 97? If they played better basketball in 94 and 95 perhaps they already have 2 rings in 97....but they didnt did they?

They didnt play basketball well enough.

Besides I dont see the point of whining about who you play in the finals. favorites lose all the time. The 95 Magic were supposed to wipe the floor with the Rockets. How did that turn out?

Hakeem played who some called the best team of all time in 86. dont see me saying he wasnt lucky because of it.

"We didnt get lucky!" is talk for losers. Which I suppose is why its being applied to Malone.

Winners win in the face of bad matchups, make the big plays, and they dont need "Oh but if they got lucky and some guy more clutch wasnt around...." to explain failures.

Everyone fails most of the itme(well...everyone but Bill Russell). Its making the best of the few chances you get that matters.

Hakeem did.

In the very same league...Malone didnt.

Im not calling it luck. I watched it. Hakeem didnt luck his way into those rings. He took them.

[Kblaze8855]

The fact remains, that it has nothing to do with basketball discussion. Nobody's giving Malone a humanitarian award, which is what the things he did off the court would be relevant towards.

Ive spent a lot more time talking about his on the court failing that anything else.


Again, nobody is giving him a pass on what he did. I'm not sure why you think that everyone on the planet must say he was overrated on the court because of things he did off it. You seem to be on some crusade to bash this guy and are upset that people don't agree with it.

Actually im reasonably sure most people do agree with what ive said of him off the court. I never said the two were related. I said hes overrated and a deadbeat dad child molester. I didnt say hes overrated because of it.

[Kblaze8855]

I truly think everyone is judging Karl on choking just because of one play in 98` where jordan got the steal.

He performed well in the playoffs in both 97 & 98 he averaged 26.0pts 11.4rbs 2.9assists.
they were just unfortunate in playing the GOAT

Something from another time when it was said how unlucky he was:



Its bad luck when Karl Malone misses BOTH free throws with the game tied and seconds left before Jordan made the game winner in game 1 of the finals?

Its bad luck when he goes 6-20 in the game following that which the Jazz nedded to win to have a real chance to win the title?

Game 3 they build a 20 point lead on Malones great play...he cools off...the Bulls come back. They go to Stockton down the stretch who made 6 straight free throws to seal the game.

In game 4 the Jazz come back on the back of Stockton who made a 3 and 3 free throws to cut down a late lead...and then throws a 90 foot pass to a wide open Malone who gets run down and fouled on the layup. It was ranked by the NBA I think as the 4th greatest asssist of all time.

Next game? Jordan scores 15 points in the 4th as the Bulls make a 10-0 run to come back and take the lead late. Malone scored one point in the final 15 minutes as they lost by 2 points.

Next game? He missed 8 free throws as the Bulls won the very close Kerr game winner game.

In 98?

Malone shot 9-25 in game 1 as it went to OT. Where Stockton scored all but 2 of their points in the win. Stockton hit floater and 2 free throws to seal the 3 point win in OT.

Game 2?

Jazz lose as Malone shoot 5-16 and misses the shot to tie it at the end before the Bulls sealed the game at the line.

Game 3?

Malone played well in the first quarter....then faded as the Jazz lost in the worst offensive performance in playoff history. The second leading all time scorer allowed his team to score 54 points in a finals game....while he had more turnovers than rebounds, asssists, and blocks combined.

Game 4?

Malone had 21/14. Lovely totals. But he was outscored by Dennis Rodman in the 4th. 5 points to 2...as the Jazz lost another game they were in until the final 10 seconds.

Game 5 Malone dominated. No other way to put it. 39 points. Ate Rodman up. jazz won a close one and Malone hit big shots.

Too bad he couldnt save a little for the final game. Sure he had his usual great totals. 31 points...11 rebounds...7 assists. Too bad he only made one shot in the second half. Maybe hed have made the one that they really needed though. You remember. Up 1 with 20 seconds left. But...

Jordan rips him...Malone fumbles away the Jazz title and watches Jordan stroll up the court and leave the wrist dangling and a lot of mormons crying.

I dont blame them. Id cry to0 if I had to watch a guy score 36 thousand points and somehow not be able to find one or two when we really need them.

But yea...he was just unlucky. Every playoffs.....for 2 decades.

My bad.....

And thats just 2 series. Its not going into how he lost the other 17.

Karl was known as unclutch before he played the Bulls. After 96 especially people were saying he was a choker.

he built his legacy with 20 years of playoff flameouts. He just did it in spectacular fashion on the biggest stage. Thats Karl for you. Lose the ugliest when it matters the most.

[eliteballer]

You're hating is unjustified kblaze. I watched Malone shred the 97 and 98 Lakers, one of the most loaded and athletic teams ever like he was playing a college team. His career stats might make him seam better than he was, but he was still a beast.

[Luigi]

After a long break, I am immediately reminded why I left: even the "good" posters don't know which way is up.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan **** ISH.

[luigi>mario]

Last post I will write, last one I will read. Enjoy ISH.

[blacknapalm]

kblaze brings up many interesting points, some of which i agree to an extent. i won't touch the off-court person since i think that's been covered well. i'll just say it's interesting the casual fans don't know half the details of that stuff. if he had won a ring, there would be a lot more scrutiny, guaranteed, even if it did not factor into overall rankings.

KM did post good playoff numbers but when it came down to crucial moments in conference finals and the actual finals, he did kinda choke. i'll give him credit for being in shape and having longevity. i think stockton and malone fed off each other, so it's unfair to say it's 90/10 or even assume it's 50/50. i'm just saying it's somewhere in between.

[Kblaze8855]

You're hating is unjustified kblaze. I watched Malone shred the 97 and 98 Lakers, one of the most loaded and athletic teams ever like he was playing a college team. His career stats might make him seam better than he was, but he was still a beast.

He was a beast like pretty much anyone who comes up in the discussions for best player at any position is a beast.

Ive seen Zo in his prime out there making 18 footers, hook, banging on guys, and blocking everything near the rim. Ive seen him have like 15 points and have more of an impact on who wins than Malone has with 25.

But due to a number of issues(health a major one) Malone is always gonna come up in greatest ever lists and Zo isnt. Same with Webber. Malones body of wokr has him ranked sooooooooooooooooooooooo far ahead of where his play justifies.

Karl Malone in his prime is no more likely to help you win a game than Chris webber in his prime...but Karl is top 15-20 and Webber would probably be ranked in the 70s.

He representes a lot of the problem with ranking players. By all the things used Karl is elite and yet...I remember watching the 99 playoffs. All this talk of Malone. he had just won another sham of an MVP.

I remember thinking he was like the 3rd best bigman on the floor in the blazers series with Sabonis an easy#1. Im not looking up any numbers. I know Karl didnt shoot well. And Sabonis might have put up like 10 and 7 or something like that. Dont know. But just watching the series unfold I just had a feeling of disgust that this guy was supposed to be the MVP.

Again.

I had a similar feeling watching Dirk vs the warriors. But I wont go into that...

But watching him out there in 99 was cringe inducing. Id seen him play poorly before. In the finals even. But then it was just funny. But in 99...hearing all this bullshit about him waiting for the playoffs to win his ring with Jordan out of the way. Vet team. Its his time. They gift him another MVP.

And then....that.

It was laughable then and still is. I wish I could watch that series again right now just to laugh.

He was always so great in name and would just flop when it counted but it was never so obvious he wasnt living up to the billing as in the 99 playoffs.

All that "Greatest power forward of all time" talk and a second year player who doesnt score nearly as much shows who 30ppg is irelevant when you cant count on 2 when you need them. Duncan wins the ring...Malone is home watching having been served up by Rasheed, Grant, and Sabonis. And it was one of the first times I asked myself..

Karl is the greatest of all time...hes the MVP....Duncan is better than him as a second year player anyway...so what good is being the best all time?

Karls overratedness sparked my interest in the issue of legacy vs ability.

Karls legacy always outmatched those hes compared to.

But MVP Karl couldnt convert a shot you needed as well as Rasheed Wallace.

So what did it matter?

Karl is the shining symbol of the irrelevance of legacy when its time to play.

If you could win off what your legacy suggests you can do he would have probably 4 titles(95, 98, and 99 at least). But his game never matched the talk about his place in history.

And the fact that hes out there helping force magic out of the league, not being a man for his kids, having sex with 12 year old girls, and roughing up people half his size...makes me enjoy it more than I otherwise would.

But my objection to his greatness has always been basketball based. He just wasnt as good as his numbers and he wasnt NEARLY as good as his final totals and resume.

And I just laugh at the idea that he was either. Especially people asking me what part of 31/11 is overrated when the question answers itself.

Karl was just a joy to watch fail. He was an asshole and as it turns out...a child molester too.

Some people I think im too hard on. Karl? He earned it. He earned it with every bricked fadeaway when it counted while still strutting around flexing like he was the best thing the league ever saw. And he earned alot more than my dislike in his off the court life. He earned a jail cell.

But that is only for us mortal folks. Minus basketball hes a sex offender in jail for either that or child support for years. Since hes Karl Malone he gets a pass?

**** that and **** him.

Send him a text with my address. I bet I could stand on my front porch and let him drive by in his 18 wheeler and try to shoot me over it. If the clock is winding down he would miss me. Id be screwed in the first quarter though.

[Scoooter]

Karl Malone Appreciation Thread?!

More like Karl Malone Argument Thread!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!









































Haha!

[ShaqAttack3234]

Karl Malone in his prime is no more likely to help you win a game than Chris webber in his prime...but Karl is top 15-20 and Webber would probably be ranked in the 70s.

Not true, Webber continually settled for jumpers and didn't attack the basket consistently despite the ability to do so. Didn't use his good post game enough either. Malone was definitely a better player than Webber despite being less skilled, and I'm a big C-Webb fan.

And don't forget that Webber choked in the playoffs as well. Remember '99 and '01 or Webber bricking free throws all series long in the '02 WCF?

[blacknapalm]

just curious, where do you have ranked all-time? top 15-20?

[Kblaze8855]

I didnt say Webber was clutch. But he was a better shooter, ball handler, passer, man to man, and off the ball defender, and depending on which Webber is the issue...a better scorer around the basket. Hes not better than early 90s Malone there.



just curious, where do you have ranked all-time? top 15-20?

Id have to think about it. and decide if I want to value "greatness" or ability at the moment.

Greatness....top 20. Ability? Id have to take a minute there. It wont be top 20 though.

Also...



Karl Malone wins second MVP award
Jet, June 21, 1999
1
2
Next



Utah Jazz star forward Karl Malone, for the second time in three years, won the NBA's MVP award.

Malone said the award will help start the healing process of a season that ended too soon for his team.

"If the NBA ever did anything for Karl Malone, it's this without a doubt," he said. "It gets the healing process going."

The award came one week after the "Mailman" scored a career play-off-low eight points as the Portland Trailblazers defeated the Jazz to advance in the playoffs to a spot in the Western Conference Finals.

"Winning this award is like nothing else," Malone said. "After the way we lost I blamed myself, I felt like I was at the bottom of the ocean with no oxygen. Then this comes and it really perks you up."
Related Results
Utah Jazz honor Karl Malone
Rock on ...
Best ever?
Spurs are a different animal
Jazz aim to shake road woes at Spurs

Ending this season without a championship ring was very disappointing for Malone. Many analysts had predicted the Jazz to win the championship this season after falling for the past two years to Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls.

Malone, who also won the award in 1997, received 44 first place votes. Coming in second was Miami Heat center Alonzo Mourning with 36 first place votes and San Antonio Spurs forward Tim Duncan was third with 30 votes for first place.

Malone, a 14-year veteran, was third in the NBA in scoring, 14th in rebounding and 11th in field goal percentage.

"This is a young man's game, and to get the league's most prestigious award at age 35, that's awesome," Malone said.


Aint that cute? An MVP award to look at while better players with a 10th of your legacy make your lifes struggle and one great failure look easy.

Legacy doesnt matter on the floor. who is the "greatest" doesnt really factor in when the ball is in play. He was "greater" than almost everyone while losing to people lower than him on all time lists at least 15 times.

So really...what does it even matter where he is on a list? If Kevin Johnson sends you home....what does it matter?

And with that....*goes to bed*

[iamgine]

Maybe Kblaze need to make a Karl Malone depreciation thread. I don't think this thread is for talking about him being a deadbeat father or a dirty player. More for appreciating his positive qualities like his dedication to the game, his competitiveness, his skills, etc.

[SGK_81]

G.O.A.T Pf

[ProfessorMurder]

Jesus Kblaze... Going hard.


Okay I'm not going to try and convince you to like Malone, but think of this from a different point of view.

The twins he had in high school with a girl. He was told, by her they were not his kids. Then when he was playing in the NBA they brought him to court and got him to settle out of court.

The whole 13 year old thing. Are you from a small town? I've lived in a small town up in Maine and back in middle school 12/13 year old girls were banging older guys, like upper high school/college guys, and talking about it in school. If it is that bad up here, it can only be worse down in the small town, redneck-ville Louisiana. I guarantee it happens more than you'd believe, and the only reason you heard about it is because he's an NBA player. Plus I saw a picture of her on the ESPN Sportscentury and she could've passed for 16... Also, they brought Malone to court and it was settled, never proven to be his kid. That family, based on what I've seen really seemed to be in it for the money.

Look at it from Malone's p.o.v., you've got 3 kids that you didn't know 100% were yours, then you're making millions and they're going for some money. A lot of people would react that way. He's closer with the twins now, at least he made an effort. I don't know about the other kid.

About him being dirty. You're mad at him bashing Isiah Thomas' face... But Isiah was never the cleanest player either. In your Pistons video he clearly starts swinging on people at the drop of a hat a few times. Malone played hard and threw elbows... A lot of people do that.

Also, you're making it seem like he is so unclutch and choked all the time. He may not have come through with Jordan numbers in every playoff game, but he showed up. Those Jazz teams were a player or two away from winning, they just never quite had it together.

You're saying Malone was spoonfed all his buckets... The dude had great hands and was crazy athletic, maybe Stockton was spoonfed all his assist numbers? They are a symbiotic duo, complimenting each other. You can't fault Malone for getting passes from Stockton.



I'm not going to fault him for things he did or didn't do. He's clearly one of the greatest ever.

So I take it you'll never make a Stockton/Malone mix then? :oldlol:

[OmniStrife]

DIRTIEST PLAYER EVER.

does not deserve an appreciation thread at all.
Bruce Bowen? :confusedshrug:

[Bigsmoke]

meh, i not really a Malone fan but i'll give him props for eating up Rodman in game 5

[Bigsmoke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bM-Y4UoiAY

[Gotterdammerung]

Moses took a .500 team to the finals and won 65 games and damn near swept the playoffs the first season he had a good shot at it. Oscar was against a team that won 11 rings in 13 years and the 1 time they didnt make the finals the greatest team of all time to that point stopped them(67 76ers). That was in Oscars way just to make the finals(early 60s on...before that the ywerei n the west with the West/Baylor lakers). Karl was blocked by teams who themselves were not that good. he lost to the warriors, Suns, and so on. He lost to teams who arent coming up in talks of the best ever...or even of their era. Karl lost to everyone. And you do know Karl was in the league when Jordan left too right? And he had a 61 win team...that Hakeem beat...in the first round...as the 7th seed. I think 7th.

We pretending Hakeem got a break Malone didnt? hakeem won because he took it. Karl didnt take it because he couldnt. He took his 61 win team and lost in the first round with it while Jordan was out of the way. Hakeem beat them easily both years. Not like one got the chance and the other didnt.

Kblaze, the more i talk with you, the less I think you're a good poster when you talk outside the glass. You exaggerate the Mailman's foibles in order to make your case that he wasn't all that, and lose all perspective when the thread is obviously an appreciation of Malone's gifts. It's not about him being a role model for your kids or being your neighbor, but you seem obsessed with that. People like you keep Pete Rose out of the Hall of Fame because he gambled on games, no matter if he was a great ball player. :rolleyes:

and FYI: Karl Malone doesn't win or loses games. It's the JAZZ that wins/loses, but like a typical homer/hater, you think it's the superstar who wins/loses games. :rolleyes:

Correction:
The Rockets were a 6th seeded team in 1995.
Hakeem didn't beat anyone easily. It was the Rockets who beat the Jazz in 6 in 1994, and in 5 out of 5 in 1995. Go back to Game #5 in 1995, and you'll see Malone trying to do everything to win - guard Hakeem, and even hit 3 pointers in the 4th quarter. Hakeem was hitting impossible turnarounds off the corner of the backboard. Nobody was beating Houston that year, not even the Bulls, had they made it past Orlando.

[Bigsmoke]

Kblaze is human. Everybody has someone they do not want to give props to. Malone was a beast and IMO the greatest in the 90's behind MJ and Hakeem.

this is back when he was like 37
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7_R4H7u4jU

[Xiao Yao You]

Karl Malone was a great, great player, easily top 20 ever. Greater than Stockton

He was never greater than Stock. He made more all-star teams and got more credit but he wasn't at Stockton's level. He was one of the greats though but the fact that he played the worst basketball of his career in those two series against the Bulls takes a lot away from his legacy.

[Skep]

Kblaze is human. Everybody has someone they do not want to give props to. Malone was a beast and IMO the greatest in the 90's behind MJ and Hakeem.

this is back when he was like 37
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7_R4H7u4jU
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:



I remember in 04 with the Lakers at 40 in one of the playoff series he had 20 points in the first half.

at age 40 wow

[Fatal9]

Malone talks about the kids situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyxdhtA9xZ8&#t=1m20s

[AirJordan23]

**** that and **** him.

Send him a text with my address. I bet I could stand on my front porch and let him drive by in his 18 wheeler and try to shoot me over it. If the clock is winding down he would miss me. Id be screwed in the first quarter though.
:oldlol:

Great analogy and an even better post.

[Doranku]

Something tells me that if Malone was a respectable family man with no criminal record, KBlaze wouldn't be in here writing essays as to why his play on the court is overrated. :rolleyes:

[AirJordan23]

Correction:
The Rockets were a 6th seeded team in 1995.
Hakeem didn't beat anyone easily. It was the Rockets who beat the Jazz in 6 in 1994, and in 5 out of 5 in 1995. Go back to Game #5 in 1995, and you'll see Malone trying to do everything to win - guard Hakeem, and even hit 3 pointers in the 4th quarter. Hakeem was hitting impossible turnarounds off the corner of the backboard. Nobody was beating Houston that year, not even the Bulls, had they made it past Orlando.

Even if the Rockets were the 6th seed they were NOT favored to win that series and that game 5 you're talking about, the Jazz as a team choked so part of the blame goes to Malone. He was missing FTs that game iirc like he always does and the Jazz were up by 7 with like 6 min to go in the 4th with all the momentum they could possibly need with the Delta center behind them. Hornacek was going loose from deep (had like 2 threes at the buzzer) but they couldn't get a bucket to save their life in crunch time. That three Malone hit in Olajuwon's face was in garbage time and didn't really have an impact on the game. And it was more of a fluke shot than anything.

[Fatal9]

Malone didn't do anything wrong that game. Stockton shot like crap. I remember those Hornacek threes in the last 10 seconds of the half, but don't remember him doing anything at all in the second half. Hating on Malone for that game is a huge reach (had 35/10/3) and the three he hit at the end DID keep them in the game (made it a two pt game, Rockets missed a FT and Jazz were down 3 with 5 seconds left). Jazz lost that game the reason they lost so many big playoff games, no one outside of Malone could consistently create their shot off the dribble in crunch time. Add some bad luck like the Rocket shooters getting hot, Hakeem hitting an impossible baseline BANK shot, and Jazz shooters going cold and that's what happens. Everyone choked to Hakeem that year because Hakeem took it away by playing at a godly level. And how Malone lost was no worse than Barkley blowing a 3-1 lead with HCA (only two times in NBA history that has ever happened) or D-Rob getting owned in the conference finals or Shaq getting swept in the finals. If you're going to hate on Malone for choking, might as well hand it out to the rest of the top 90s players outside of Jordan and Hakeem too.

[AirJordan23]

Malone didn't do anything wrong that game. Stockton shot like crap.
How about missing 6 FTs? He did the same in the '96 WCF game 7. Same in game 1 of the finals. You're right about Stockton, though. However, he was instrumental to their success in their two wins. Mainly because the Rockets struggled to guard the pick n roll. That series was all about controlling tempo for both teams. Two games the Rockets won, they were running the floor and killing them in transition. Utah couldn't be stopped in the halfcourt cause of the PnR.


I remember those Hornacek threes in the last 10 seconds of the half, but don't remember him doing anything at all in the second half.
He hit the 3 to put them up by 7 midway through the 4th. And got the crowd behind them. Not a lot of people could've predicted the Jazz losing at that point in the game.

Hating on Malone for that game is a huge reach (had 35/10/3) and the three he hit at the end DID keep them in the game (made it a two pt game, Rockets missed a FT and Jazz were down 3 with 5 seconds left).
I'm not hating on him. He didn't show me any takeover ability when they needed him the most (late in the 4th). He bricked a couple of fallaways and watched his team chuck up ill advised shots. You have to question his leadership at some point. Although some credit should go to the Rockets for tightening up their D. My mistake about the 3. I thought it was a 6 pt game before he made the shot. Like I said, it's his mentality and lack of a diverse offensive game that irks me the most. This is why he wasn't clutch and has a bunch of failures in the playoffs. It was usually Stockton making the big plays that mattered ('97 WCF game 6, '97 finals game 4, '99 WCQF game 4 etc).


Jazz lost that game the reason they lost so many big playoff games, no one outside of Malone could consistently create their shot off the dribble in crunch time. Add some bad luck like the Rocket shooters getting hot, Hakeem hitting an impossible baseline BANK shot, and Jazz shooters going cold and that's what happens. Everyone choked to Hakeem that year because Hakeem took it away by playing at a godly level. And how Malone lost was no worse than Barkley blowing a 3-1 lead with HCA (only two times in NBA history that has ever happened) or D-Rob getting owned in the conference finals or Shaq getting swept in the finals. If you're going to hate on Malone for choking, might as well hand it out to the rest of the top 90s players outside of Jordan and Hakeem too.

I don't think Malone lost in the worst possible fashion like DROB or Barkley did but I also don't think Malone's failure can be justified by his contemporaries failures. And while Hakeem was great, the Rockets weren't some invincible force in those playoffs. Had a lot of luck go their way. The Suns had several chances to capitalize on but they couldn't deliver when it mattered. Game 5, Barkley went 1/4 at the line which led to Hakeem tying the game to send it to OT. He hits 1 of those FTs and the series is wrapped up. Game 7, the Suns were dominating in the first half cause Dream was in foul trouble iirc but they gave it away in the second half. Led to the kiss of death. The Spurs series could've gone the other way if Horry missed the potential gamewinner in game 1. 1 game can have a huge impact on the team's mentality and on a team like the Spurs (lacked leadership) it could definitely boost their confidence. The finals, Nick Anderson makes those FTs, the Magic have an edge.

So, I don't think you can blame Hakeem for Malone's failure when he has lost on so many other occasions. Hell, these guys almost blew a 3-0 lead against the inexperienced Nugz in '94. The other guys you mentioned save for DRob were known for stepping up and elevating their game to a whole new level in the playoffs. Barkley's 93 run where he dominated the Lakers in the series (carried them in the second half of game 5), hit the gamewinner in Robinson's face in game 6, had a triple double against the Sonics in game 5 and 44/24 in game 7 and took it to a great defender in Grant in the finals is greater than any run Malone's ever had. And I'm not sure if his team was signficantly better than Malone's. '93 KJ was dealing with injuries and got shut down in the first 2 games by the Bulls. I'd take Stockton over him. Majerle was a good defender and spot up shooter but MJ destroyed him off the dribble in the finals. Drexler had his way with him in the '92 series. Him and Hornacek aren't world's apart. They had no legit big to guard the paint save for Oliver tittay Miller. Mark West had trouble staying on the floor. People clown on Ostertag for getting mashed on but I'd take him over any big the Suns had. Suns have a slight edge in depth and a couple of talented athletic wings (Dumas, Ceballos) but that's about it. JAzz had a better coach, though. And I'm not even going to go over Shaq. All you have to do is look at his 3 peat and see the way he dominated. DRob had his failures in the playoffs but I'd take him over Malone in the season due to superior defense.

[ut_jazz]

Something tells me that if Malone was a respectable family man with no criminal record, KBlaze wouldn't be in here writing essays as to why his play on the court is overrated. :rolleyes:

Or if he didn't own Isiah Thomas. I wouldn't call the Mailman dirty, I call him no non-sense. You can hate him for that but he's just trying to do his job and being nasty inside is part of the deal.Some of those plays were unfortunate like accidental elbow on David Robinson, but others I cheered for like the Isiah one, he had it coming.

[DixieNourmous]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:XJ-hov_cev55HM:http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/buzzerbeater/Lakers04.jpg&t=1
The First Diva Team

This Diva team thing looks good on paper, but with only one ball in play at any given time, it creates problems and will again.

Like having a 600 horse power bicycle, its easy to crash.

[Round Mound]

How about missing 6 FTs? He did the same in the '96 WCF game 7. Same in game 1 of the finals. You're right about Stockton, though. However, he was instrumental to their success in their two wins. Mainly because the Rockets struggled to guard the pick n roll. That series was all about controlling tempo for both teams. Two games the Rockets won, they were running the floor and killing them in transition. Utah couldn't be stopped in the halfcourt cause of the PnR.

Him missing 6FTs was kind of sad especially since he was Good FT Shooter for a PF but Malone

Never seemed to be as efficient Barkley was in the play-offs

He hit the 3 to put them up by 7 midway through the 4th. And got the crowd behind them. Not a lot of people could've predicted the Jazz losing at that point in the game.

I'm not hating on him. He didn't show me any takeover ability when they needed him the most (late in the 4th). He bricked a couple of fallaways and watched his team chuck up ill advised shots. You have to question his leadership at some point. Although some credit should go to the Rockets for tightening up their D. My mistake about the 3. I thought it was a 6 pt game before he made the shot. Like I said, it's his mentality and lack of a diverse offensive game that irks me the most. This is why he wasn't clutch and has a bunch of failures in the playoffs. It was usually Stockton making the big plays that mattered ('97 WCF game 6, '97 finals game 4, '99 WCQF game 4 etc).

I don't think Malone lost in the worst possible fashion like DROB or Barkley did but I also don't think Malone's failure can be justified by his contemporaries failures. And while Hakeem was great, the Rockets weren't some invincible force in those playoffs. Had a lot of luck go their way. The Suns had several chances to capitalize on but they couldn't deliver when it mattered. Game 5, Barkley went 1/4 at the line which led to Hakeem tying the game to send it to OT. He hits 1 of those FTs and the series is wrapped up.

[B]Neither Malone, Barkley or D-Rob can be made fun off because they ALL LOST TO BETTER AND DEEPER TEAMS.

The Rockets 1994 and 1995 where DEPPER than the Suns especially athletically in the perimeter plus they had 4 Great Far Range Shooters and 3-Point Specialists in (Horry, Elie, Casell, Smith) in which Hakeem would just through the ball outside when doubled and ALL OF THEM WHERE QUICKER, STRONGER AND MORE ATHLETIC on the Defensive Side in the PERIMETER (specially to Stop the Suns which only had KJ playing more of a Combo-SG role than a pure PG) and later beat the Knicks and later with DREXLER (who played like a maniac that play-offs knowing it was probably his last chance to chase a ring) to destroy the Magic.

Not to forget Otis Thorpe: which was Defensive-Rebounding and Efficient Scoring Pressure Inside. Now wonder he was an All Star in 1992 and his PF Numbers speak for themselves per 36 minutes especially

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thorpot01.html

The Suns had Only 2 Great Far Range Shooters: Thunder Dan and old 33 year old Ainge but Lacked more Perimeter Defense to stop either the Bulls or the Rockets

Barkley averaged vs The Bulls in the 1993 Finals

27.3 PPG (Total 47.6% FG on)
2-Point FG% on Scoring: 49.2% Two-Point FG on 26.3 PPG
13.0 RPG
5.5 APG (1 APG less than KJ)

While KJ was key for the loss with only delivering:

17.2 PPG on 42.1% FG on 15.8 FGAs PG (Excessive FGAs for a 6`1 PG)
2-Point FG% on Scoring: 43.0% on 17.2 PPG
6.5 APG (A Little Less For A Super Star PG)
1.3 SPG

Malone averaged vs The Bulls in the 1997 Finals

23.8 PPG (44.3% FG on 20.3 FGAs PG)
2-Point FG% on Scoring: 43.1% Two-Point FG on 23.8 PPG
10.3 RPG
3.5 APG

Stockton on the other hand was Superb in the Clutch Shooting wise

(as he made it happened with the game winning shot to send them to their 1st heroic Finals vs the aging Rockets)

15.0 (50% FG)
2-Point FG% on Scoring: 53.1% Two-Point FG on 12.0 PPG (PURE PG CLASS, SHOOT LESS AND SCORE EFFICIENTLY)
8.8 APG (by Standards a Little Bad)
4.0 RPG (Great Hustle)
2.0 (Superb as a Team Defender, 1 on 1 Hustler and Pick Pocketer AS ALWAYS)

Stockton would have been the Finals MVP if they Jazz would have one
Malone did not deliver to well in the pressure in the 2-Point Region, where a PF is suppose to dominate. Plus he shot excessively 20.3 FGAs PG while Stockton kept on making him and others look good with his Efficient PG-Play

In the 1998 Finals Malone delivered scoring wise well but i still would have liked for him to Rebound and Create More for his Teamates but as i said before:

Both Stockton and Malone where TOO 1 POSITIONAL.

They did not have the same skills that Hakeem, Barkley, Pippen, Jordan, D-Rob had (they could play in ways that resembled their position and other positions) that would have made their teamates better

But lets Remember that the Bulls had Pippen: THE BEST PERIMETER DEFENDER EVER in his Total Prime and ofcourse Dennis Rodman, who was a Force in the Rebound Region as well as Kukoc... whom brought versatility and missmatch problems (in creating, ball handling, slashing) in his unique 6`11 fundamentally sound way. Plus Harper. Ex 20 PPG dude, great ATHLETIC DEFENDER. That held the Jazz perimeter play.

As a whole they had a more VERSATILE AND DEEPER TEAM

[U][COLOR="Navy"]Although The Jazz had a Real Center Presence in Ostertag (7

[AirJordan23]

Still Malone is an all time great, he worked more for it than was naturally skilled despite his numbers and efficiency always seemed to lower in the play-offs[/B]

First of all, you're an idiot.

Secondly, I don't care much about your stupid stats. And your posts are a pain to read cause of your multi-colored, bolded font. All I'm going to address is the part where you say the Rockets were deeper and the other BS. What you don't realize is that the SUNS WERE FAVORED TO WIN THE SERIES IN '94 and '95. And they were in perfect position to win the series yet they choked.

1994, they were up 2-0 thanks to the Rockets blowing two 20 pt leads at the Summit. Now if you remember game 3, the Suns were up at the half by 8 pts. The reason why they didn't win is because Maxwell went off and Barkley didn't show up in the second half most likely due to being fatigued out. Before you throw some useless stats at me, you have to understand Barkley was golfing, doinge excessive amounts of clubbing and partying late at night during those playoffs. That eventually came back to hurt him. Maybe if he demonstrated a greater work ethic, that doesn't happen and they win the series. So, if they win game 3, they're up 3-0. And no team in history has come back from a 3-0 deficit.

Also, a key reason why Barkley had his most success in '93 was that he stayed in shape during the summer because he was on the DREAM TEAM. So, he wasn't partying out there or doing any of the other stuff.

1995, they were up 3-1. Now, game 5, Barkley got 4 FTA late in the game yet he only converted 1 out of 4. You have to understand if he converts 1 of those misses, we're most likely talking a Suns / Spurs WCF that year. And then the whole supporting cast claims would be shut down. That's all there's to it. Don't act like the Suns weren't given the opportunity to win. They just choked when it mattered. And the Rockets weren't as talented as the Suns no matter how you spin it.

[magnax1]

I dont see much to appreciate. A bigman who made a living off making shots spoon fed to him, hitting people smaller than him ,and losing when it matters often in head scratching upsets(he has 3-4 50+ win first round losses...including as a 61 win team).

He just isnt that impressive on an all time level.

As for claims he lost to Jordan...

He lost to Jordan 2 times in...19 years?

Karl Malone lost to the NBa. He lost to Kevin Johnson. tim Hardaway. Kemp. Hakeem. I think Rasheed. He lost to Dirk.

He lost to everyone. Jordan beating him twice doesnt mean hes the reason he couldnt get over the hump. Malone spent 17 other years losing when it mattered.

he was an overrated everything. Well...most things. he was an overrated passer whos entire reputation is based on over the shoulder looks to cutters and it took him like 8 years to be good at that. Hes an overrated rebounder. I dont think he averaged 10 a game after like...95. He went like 10 years without being a bigtime rebounder. He was getting old but great rebounders dont lose it to age that often. Rodman and Barkley were dominating the boards in their last years because they were great rebounders. He was an overrated defender who lived off swipes and putting a body on people so they couldnt get straight to shoot. He had slow feet most of his career, couldnt protect the basket/prevent drives as much as hit you when you got there, and his shot blocking was never special.

His offense was....being on the other end of John Stockton and about 2 moves in the post. A couple nice moves off the spin in his youth and looking over his shoulder twice before firing a fadeaway that went in like 40% of the time by his prime.

All Karl Malone did on an all time level was finish in traffic(that I have nothing negative to say about...he finished shots many others couldnt dream of).

Thats it. Karl Malone was arguably the best finisher of all time and he had great hands as he matured.

The rest is overrated.

He was great at what he did. But what he did wasnt reliable enough to lean on hism when it matters. Which is why he scored 2 points in the second half of a close finals game when hes the "mvp" and thats why he didnt deliver on Sundays.
I don't like Karl Malone a lot as a player, but he was a skilled post player with a great J, and fade away, and the second best passer on the Jazz team for a decade. He got a lot of his points off the ball finishing, but especially during the late 90's, he was getting the majority of his points in the post with the ball. He was also a very good, and dirty defender. Your hatred for Malone obviously makes you very biased against him.
He was never good in the last five minutes, but thats not like it cancels out the 27-10 he got every game. The only reason it becomes so noticeable is that Sloan went to him late in the game way to often, instead of giving stockton the ball, who was one of the more clutch players in the league.

[Round Mound]

First of all, you're an idiot.

Secondly, I don't care much about your stupid stats. And your posts are a pain to read cause of your multi-colored, bolded font. All I'm going to address is the part where you say the Rockets were deeper and the other BS. What you don't realize is that the SUNS WERE FAVORED TO WIN THE SERIES IN '94 and '95. And they were in perfect position to win the series yet they choked.

1994, they were up 2-0 thanks to the Rockets blowing two 20 pt leads at the Summit. Now if you remember game 3, the Suns were up at the half by 8 pts. The reason why they didn't win is because Maxwell went off and Barkley didn't show up in the second half most likely due to being fatigued out. Before you throw some useless stats at me, you have to understand Barkley was golfing, doinge excessive amounts of clubbing and partying late at night during those playoffs. That eventually came back to hurt him. Maybe if he demonstrated a greater work ethic, that doesn't happen and they win the series. So, if they win game 3, they're up 3-0. And no team in history has come back from a 3-0 deficit.

Also, a key reason why Barkley had his most success in '93 was that he stayed in shape during the summer because he was on the DREAM TEAM. So, he wasn't partying out there or doing any of the other stuff.

1995, they were up 3-1. Now, game 5, Barkley got 4 FTA late in the game yet he only converted 1 out of 4. You have to understand if he converts 1 of those misses, we're most likely talking a Suns / Spurs WCF that year. And then the whole supporting cast claims would be shut down. That's all there's to it. Don't act like the Suns weren't given the opportunity to win. They just choked when it mattered. And the Rockets weren't as talented as the Suns no matter how you spin it.

Hakeem-Otis (ex All Star..put up like 20/14-9/10 for all of his career pretty much)
Hakeem-Drexler and plus 4 Far Range Specialists: ELIE, SMITH, CASSELL, HORRY....ALL OF THEM...........BETTER DEFENDERRS IN THE PERIMETER and 4 TO GUN THE 3

THAN "I WANNA BE LIKE MIKE KEVIN JOHNSON, Thunder (slow lateral movement, although strong rebounding Guard) and 33 yer old Ainge

Bla Bla...and what about Malone`s excessive and inefficient shooting in 2-Point Region in the Play-Offs?.

He shot 46%!!!

That is what Guards Shoot.

No to mention HIS REBOUNDING NUMBERS AND GAME CREATING CAPACITY (ASSISTS) ALL SEEMED TO LOWER IN THE PLAY-OFFS?

WHY?

No Wonder before Barkley got injured in 1995, Chuck would abuse Karl (as Walton himself said in 1997..."Strange to See Charles, whom can hardly dunk, not abouse Karl")

Chuck from 1985-1996 had a Better and Higher

PER
+/-
Win Share
ORT
Offensive Win Share
and ofcourse was the Better Player.

Player Comparison Barkley vs Malone ages 22-31/32 (1985-1996)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=barklch01&y1=1995&p2=malonka01&y2=1995

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=barklch01&y1=1996&p2=malonka01&y2=1996
:sleeping

Malone was escentially a product of a System and it was Stockton whom had the Great Finals in 1997 NOT MALONE.

15.0 (50% FG)
2-Point FG% on Scoring: 53.1% Two-Point FG on 12.0 PPG (PURE PG CLASS, SHOOT LESS AND SCORE EFFICIENTLY)
8.8 APG (by Standards a Little Bad)
4.0 RPG (Great Hustle)
2.0 (Superb as a Team Defender, 1 on 1 Hustler and Pick Pocketer AS ALWAYS)

Stockton made Malone look better than he was. I was there fore the games too watch both Barkley and Malone in their primes (before injuries) KJ FAN and yes...

KJ was the MAIN CAUSE FOR LOOSING THE 1993 FINALS. HE NEVER SHOWED TO PLAY (prooven statistically)

Barkley INJURED AFTER GAME 2, atleast averaged important numbers.

Barkley is Top 10 in EFF, PER (Play-Offs too) and Statistical Plus/Minus.

That shows he was one of the Most Dominant and Efficient Players Ever.

A Top 10 Impact Player of All Time...Malone? Good Player but a Stat Padder. Broken Down Always Less Efficient

[AirJordan23]

....

LMAO @ this clown. Went from discussing the WCSF to bringing out the excuse brigade for Barkley's career. You bring up the Rockets perimeter defense yet KJ was lighting up Smith and Cassell. They couldn't keep him out of the lane at all and had to back off and just let him shoot. Guy averaged 27/10 and 25/10 in '94 and '95 respectively yet you're questioning his performance. His game 7 in '95 was legendary although his only miss at the line came late in the game so that was a bit costly. Penny took it to these guys in the finals averaging 26/5/8 while shooting 50%. The Rockets perimeter defense was nothing spectacular and their high DRtg is largely due to Hakeem's presence in the paint. They had three very good perimeter defenders in Horry, Elie and Maxwell but it should be noted that Mad Max didn't play in the '95 playoffs at all. So, that leaves us with two and one of them was a bench player. The rest were either subpar or average and looked better with Dream behind them. Only thing you're right about is Dan Majerle stinking it up in those playoffs. He went cold due to not getting good looks and he was never a guy could create well off the dribble so he was only there for his defense.

And you forgot to mention the '94 Suns had A.C Green for rebounding and spacing. Oliver Miller. As fat as the dude was, he could still camp down low and be a shot blocking threat. Although, he did make a lot of defensive mistakes. And on offense he could pass really well. Also had an athletic swingman in Ceballos who excelled in the open court. Also moved well off ball. Good rebounder. Dude was the best player on a 50 win Laker team a couple of years later. '95, they traded Ceballos away and lost Miller but they brought in a versatile big in Manning. Too bad he didn't play in the playoffs due to ACL reconstruction. But, even without him, they managed a 23-13 record and won 59 games overall. You're telling me these guys aren't more talented than the Rockets? It's ridiculous. There's a reason they were favored to win the series in both the years and they would've won had they not choked. Stop rewriting history.

[magnax1]

The reason the 94/95 suns lost was because that was the beggining of Barkley's sharp decline. And losing Ceballos and Dumas for nothing didn't help either.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

At age 33 Karl was still producing 27 ppg 10 rebounds. That's about 10 points a game higher that Duncan at the same age. His assists and field goal percentange were slightly higher than Duncan too. I won't say that Duncan is washed up at age 33 but we can all see the decline. Duncan had greater team success than Karl but one man can't win or lose championships by himself.

Karl was an amazing player. You could see the basketball IQ when he played. It was obvious that he understood the game. It's really too bad that he hurt his knee in the 2004 playoffs. L.A. would have had a much better chance to beat Detroit with a healthy Karl Malone even at age 40.

[Stringer Bell]

He was a beast like pretty much anyone who comes up in the discussions for best player at any position is a beast.

Ive seen Zo in his prime out there making 18 footers, hook, banging on guys, and blocking everything near the rim. Ive seen him have like 15 points and have more of an impact on who wins than Malone has with 25.

But due to a number of issues(health a major one) Malone is always gonna come up in greatest ever lists and Zo isnt. Same with Webber. Malones body of wokr has him ranked sooooooooooooooooooooooo far ahead of where his play justifies.

Karl Malone in his prime is no more likely to help you win a game than Chris webber in his prime...but Karl is top 15-20 and Webber would probably be ranked in the 70s.

He representes a lot of the problem with ranking players. By all the things used Karl is elite and yet...I remember watching the 99 playoffs. All this talk of Malone. he had just won another sham of an MVP.

I remember thinking he was like the 3rd best bigman on the floor in the blazers series with Sabonis an easy#1. Im not looking up any numbers. I know Karl didnt shoot well. And Sabonis might have put up like 10 and 7 or something like that. Dont know. But just watching the series unfold I just had a feeling of disgust that this guy was supposed to be the MVP.

Again.

I had a similar feeling watching Dirk vs the warriors. But I wont go into that...

But watching him out there in 99 was cringe inducing. Id seen him play poorly before. In the finals even. But then it was just funny. But in 99...hearing all this bullshit about him waiting for the playoffs to win his ring with Jordan out of the way. Vet team. Its his time. They gift him another MVP.

And then....that.

It was laughable then and still is. I wish I could watch that series again right now just to laugh.

He was always so great in name and would just flop when it counted but it was never so obvious he wasnt living up to the billing as in the 99 playoffs.

All that "Greatest power forward of all time" talk and a second year player who doesnt score nearly as much shows who 30ppg is irelevant when you cant count on 2 when you need them. Duncan wins the ring...Malone is home watching having been served up by Rasheed, Grant, and Sabonis. And it was one of the first times I asked myself..

Karl is the greatest of all time...hes the MVP....Duncan is better than him as a second year player anyway...so what good is being the best all time?

Karls overratedness sparked my interest in the issue of legacy vs ability.

Karls legacy always outmatched those hes compared to.

But MVP Karl couldnt convert a shot you needed as well as Rasheed Wallace.

So what did it matter?

Karl is the shining symbol of the irrelevance of legacy when its time to play.

If you could win off what your legacy suggests you can do he would have probably 4 titles(95, 98, and 99 at least). But his game never matched the talk about his place in history.

And the fact that hes out there helping force magic out of the league, not being a man for his kids, having sex with 12 year old girls, and roughing up people half his size...makes me enjoy it more than I otherwise would.

But my objection to his greatness has always been basketball based. He just wasnt as good as his numbers and he wasnt NEARLY as good as his final totals and resume.

And I just laugh at the idea that he was either. Especially people asking me what part of 31/11 is overrated when the question answers itself.

Karl was just a joy to watch fail. He was an asshole and as it turns out...a child molester too.

Some people I think im too hard on. Karl? He earned it. He earned it with every bricked fadeaway when it counted while still strutting around flexing like he was the best thing the league ever saw. And he earned alot more than my dislike in his off the court life. He earned a jail cell.

But that is only for us mortal folks. Minus basketball hes a sex offender in jail for either that or child support for years. Since hes Karl Malone he gets a pass?

**** that and **** him.

Send him a text with my address. I bet I could stand on my front porch and let him drive by in his 18 wheeler and try to shoot me over it. If the clock is winding down he would miss me. Id be screwed in the first quarter though.

:applause: :roll:

[godofgods]

Malone never raped anybody like Kobe.

[Rendezvous32]

He won the MVP over Michael Jordan. That isnt him being overrated?

.
Um, I thought Malone was quite deserving for the MVP that season. He posted pretty terrific stats. Plus, the NBA has always favored guys who didn't win the MVP over guys who have.

[magnax1]

Um, I thought Malone was quite deserving for the MVP that season. He posted pretty terrific stats. Plus, the NBA has always favored guys who didn't win the MVP over guys who have.
He wasn't over rated because nobody actually thought he was better then Jordan, but he didn't deserve the MVP. The bulls won 69 games, and Jordan was by far the best player in the league, and everyone knew that. They just gave it to Karl because
1-He was one of the best to never win the award
2-They'd already given it to Jordan four times

[Rendezvous32]

He wasn't over rated because nobody actually thought he was better then Jordan, but he didn't deserve the MVP. The bulls won 69 games, and Jordan was by far the best player in the league, and everyone knew that. They just gave it to Karl because
1-He was one of the best to never win the award
2-They'd already given it to Jordan four times
Thanks for restating of what exactly I just said.

[magnax1]

Thanks for restating of what exactly I just said.
Except you said he was quite deserving of the award, and I said he wasn't at all. There is a difference.

[Stringer Bell]

I'm glad this POS pedophile never won a title. His daughter won one in the NBA, and I hope his son (whom he abandoned and was a product of Karl's pedophilia) wins one in the NFL, and Karl has recurring nightmares of this game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArOfyPAluCY

[Chalkmaze]

Good article on Malone in today's local paper.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/50099788-87/malone-utah-jazz-points.html.csp

A few quotes from it.


“The guy took conditioning to an extreme level,” Stockton said. “He’s someone, in that regard, that very few people have ever matched.”


“His capacity for hard work — and his enthusiasm for hard work — is the greatest I’ve ever seen,” said Jazz strength coach Mark McKown, who often supervised Malone’s workouts, not only in Utah but also during the hot, humid offseason in Louisiana.


“Karl Malone busted his butt every single day to be as good as he could be,” says Jazz coach Jerry Sloan.


“I feel very humble, excited and nervous right now. When my name is called, when they say, ‘Karl Malone is in the Hall of Fame,’ I hope everybody who had a part of this will be proud, because it wasn’t just about me.”
.............................

[MastahX]

Malone is the greatest power forward of all-time. Duncan could have never got the finals with Malone's supporting cast. Seriously, does anyone see a front court of Ostertag, Duncan, and Adam Keefe getting to the championship round? Anyone?

Had Malone played for a few seasons alongside David Robinson - everyone one of those seasons would have been a championship for Malone. Sorry, that's just how it would have been.

[Jasper]

Malone is the greatest power forward of all-time. Duncan could have never got the finals with Malone's supporting cast. Seriously, does anyone see a front court of Ostertag, Duncan, and Adam Keefe getting to the championship round? Anyone?

Had Malone played for a few seasons alongside David Robinson - everyone one of those seasons would have been a championship for Malone. Sorry, that's just how it would have been.

Glad someone realizes this ... Malone got plenty of hate from ISH , because of laker fans , as well as MJ haters wishing Malone would of won a title or two from MJ & pipp.

Karl Malone became the proto type for PF's .... not before him , did players hit the weight room , tread mill and every other off season regime of exercise to take the punishment a low block player dishes out and gets punishment.
*(After Shaq retires, I am sure he will write about all the punishment he took , and people will wake up to the fact , it's not all gravy playing in the post)

Nice article about the 2nd most points scored player in league history :
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/halloffame10/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=100812-malone

[Big#50]

Nothing to appreciate except that he ran the fast break well. Had a good shot. His d wasoverrated. Making the al nba d team was a joke. His d consisted of slapping down hard when a player held the ball. He was a scumbag. He was dirty. He was a choker. He purposedly tried to hurt players. That makes him a nother kind of dirty. Glad he never won a ring. **** Karl Malone.

[MastahX]

Nothing to appreciate except that he ran the fast break well. Had a good shot. His d wasoverrated. Making the al nba d team was a joke. His d consisted of slapping down hard when a player held the ball. He was a scumbag. He was dirty. He was a choker. He purposedly tried to hurt players. That makes him a nother kind of dirty. Glad he never won a ring. **** Karl Malone.

I wish more players were "dirty" like Stockton & Malone were. What that means to me is they were physical and the game was much more entertaining back then. I always thought that was a huge compliment when someone says a player is dirty.

Now the NBA is full of floppers and softies that sit out a season because their tampon fell out.

[Bigsmoke]

Nothing to appreciate except that he ran the fast break well. Had a good shot. His d wasoverrated. Making the al nba d team was a joke. His d consisted of slapping down hard when a player held the ball. He was a scumbag. He was dirty. He was a choker. He purposedly tried to hurt players. That makes him a nother kind of dirty. Glad he never won a ring. **** Karl Malone.

and thats why Malone shitted on Robinson Spurs like 3 times in a single decade? :oldlol:

He even shitted on Robinson while locking down Duncan

[nbacardDOTnet]

[QUOTE=Round Mound]How about missing 6 FTs? He did the same in the '96 WCF game 7. Same in game 1 of the finals. You're right about Stockton, though. However, he was instrumental to their success in their two wins. Mainly because the Rockets struggled to guard the pick n roll. That series was all about controlling tempo for both teams. Two games the Rockets won, they were running the floor and killing them in transition. Utah couldn't be stopped in the halfcourt cause of the PnR.

Him missing 6FTs was kind of sad especially since he was Good FT Shooter for a PF but Malone

Never seemed to be as efficient Barkley was in the play-offs

He hit the 3 to put them up by 7 midway through the 4th. And got the crowd behind them. Not a lot of people could've predicted the Jazz losing at that point in the game.

I'm not hating on him. He didn't show me any takeover ability when they needed him the most (late in the 4th). He bricked a couple of fallaways and watched his team chuck up ill advised shots. You have to question his leadership at some point. Although some credit should go to the Rockets for tightening up their D. My mistake about the 3. I thought it was a 6 pt game before he made the shot. Like I said, it's his mentality and lack of a diverse offensive game that irks me the most. This is why he wasn't clutch and has a bunch of failures in the playoffs. It was usually Stockton making the big plays that mattered ('97 WCF game 6, '97 finals game 4, '99 WCQF game 4 etc).

I don't think Malone lost in the worst possible fashion like DROB or Barkley did but I also don't think Malone's failure can be justified by his contemporaries failures. And while Hakeem was great, the Rockets weren't some invincible force in those playoffs. Had a lot of luck go their way. The Suns had several chances to capitalize on but they couldn't deliver when it mattered. Game 5, Barkley went 1/4 at the line which led to Hakeem tying the game to send it to OT. He hits 1 of those FTs and the series is wrapped up.

[B]Neither Malone, Barkley or D-Rob can be made fun off because they ALL LOST TO BETTER AND DEEPER TEAMS.

The Rockets 1994 and 1995 where DEPPER than the Suns especially athletically in the perimeter plus they had 4 Great Far Range Shooters and 3-Point Specialists in (Horry, Elie, Casell, Smith) in which Hakeem would just through the ball outside when doubled and ALL OF THEM WHERE QUICKER, STRONGER AND MORE ATHLETIC on the Defensive Side in the PERIMETER (specially to Stop the Suns which only had KJ playing more of a Combo-SG role than a pure PG) and later beat the Knicks and later with DREXLER (who played like a maniac that play-offs knowing it was probably his last chance to chase a ring) to destroy the Magic.

Not to forget Otis Thorpe: which was Defensive-Rebounding and Efficient Scoring Pressure Inside. Now wonder he was an All Star in 1992 and his PF Numbers speak for themselves per 36 minutes especially

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thorpot01.html

The Suns had Only 2 Great Far Range Shooters: Thunder Dan and old 33 year old Ainge but Lacked more Perimeter Defense to stop either the Bulls or the Rockets

Barkley averaged vs The Bulls in the 1993 Finals

27.3 PPG (Total 47.6% FG on)
2-Point FG% on Scoring: 49.2% Two-Point FG on 26.3 PPG
13.0 RPG
5.5 APG (1 APG less than KJ)

While KJ was key for the loss with only delivering:

17.2 PPG on 42.1% FG on 15.8 FGAs PG (Excessive FGAs for a 6`1 PG)
2-Point FG% on Scoring: 43.0% on 17.2 PPG
6.5 APG (A Little Less For A Super Star PG)
1.3 SPG

Malone averaged vs The Bulls in the 1997 Finals

23.8 PPG (44.3% FG on 20.3 FGAs PG)
2-Point FG% on Scoring: 43.1% Two-Point FG on 23.8 PPG
10.3 RPG
3.5 APG

Stockton on the other hand was Superb in the Clutch Shooting wise

(as he made it happened with the game winning shot to send them to their 1st heroic Finals vs the aging Rockets)

15.0 (50% FG)
2-Point FG% on Scoring: 53.1% Two-Point FG on 12.0 PPG (PURE PG CLASS, SHOOT LESS AND SCORE EFFICIENTLY)
8.8 APG (by Standards a Little Bad)
4.0 RPG (Great Hustle)
2.0 (Superb as a Team Defender, 1 on 1 Hustler and Pick Pocketer AS ALWAYS)

Stockton would have been the Finals MVP if they Jazz would have one
Malone did not deliver to well in the pressure in the 2-Point Region, where a PF is suppose to dominate. Plus he shot excessively 20.3 FGAs PG while Stockton kept on making him and others look good with his Efficient PG-Play

In the 1998 Finals Malone delivered scoring wise well but i still would have liked for him to Rebound and Create More for his Teamates but as i said before:

Both Stockton and Malone where TOO 1 POSITIONAL.

They did not have the same skills that Hakeem, Barkley, Pippen, Jordan, D-Rob had (they could play in ways that resembled their position and other positions) that would have made their teamates better

But lets Remember that the Bulls had Pippen: THE BEST PERIMETER DEFENDER EVER in his Total Prime and ofcourse Dennis Rodman, who was a Force in the Rebound Region as well as Kukoc... whom brought versatility and missmatch problems (in creating, ball handling, slashing) in his unique 6`11 fundamentally sound way. Plus Harper. Ex 20 PPG dude, great ATHLETIC DEFENDER. That held the Jazz perimeter play.

As a whole they had a more VERSATILE AND DEEPER TEAM

[U][COLOR="Navy"]Although The Jazz had a Real Center Presence in Ostertag (7

[Xiao Yao You]

Malone is the greatest power forward of all-time. Duncan could have never got the finals with Malone's supporting cast. Seriously, does anyone see a front court of Ostertag, Duncan, and Adam Keefe getting to the championship round? Anyone?

Had Malone played for a few seasons alongside David Robinson - everyone one of those seasons would have been a championship for Malone. Sorry, that's just how it would have been.

Poor guy stuck with that stiff Stockton all those years.

[Big#50]

R
and thats why Malone shitted on Robinson Spurs like 3 times in a single decade? :oldlol:

He even shitted on Robinson while locking down Duncan
Robinson=2 rings
Duncan= 4 rings
Malone=ring chaser with 0 rings
Which doesn't belong?

[Stephen_H]

R
Robinson=2 rings
Duncan= 4 rings
Malone=ring chaser with 0 rings
Which doesn't belong?

In fairness to Karl Malone, he ran into Michael Jordan. No shame in losing to the greatest of all time! Ask Barkley...

Malone is currently number 2 in all time scoring. Can't knock his skills on the court.