Seriously Cleveland Wont even win 20 games this upcoming season with this poor roster

[OnceInADECADE]

PG: Mo Williams/Ramon Sessions/ Daniel Gibson
SG: Anthony Parker/Danny Green/ Christian Eyenga
SF: Jamrion Moon/ Joey Graham/ Jawad Williams
PF: JJ Hickson/ Antawn Jamsion/ Leo Powe
C: Anderson Varjeo/ Ryan Hollins

This team really sucks. Why did Bryon Scott choose the Cavs?

[OnceInADECADE]

LOL @ the cavs website for still having Shaq on their Roster Website lol
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/roster/

[TheLogo]

They are a playoff team.

Watch how better they play as a team without Lebron.

[imdaman99]

Im hoping they win enough to be the 8th seed, than they can complete that upset of epic proportions. And a lil payback for the city of Cleveland :lol

[New York Knicks]

I want them to make the playoffs too but not for the same reasons as the two Kobe fans above me.

[OnceInADECADE]

They are a playoff team.

Watch how better they play as a team without Lebron.

Pass the blunt

[OnceInADECADE]

Im hoping they win enough to be the 8th seed, than they can complete that upset of epic proportions. And a lil payback for the city of Cleveland :lol

Not with Mo Williams as your franchise player

Maurice"MO SHOTS MO PROBELMS" Williams :roll: classic

[OnceInADECADE]

I want them to make the playoffs too but not for the same reasons as the two Kobe fans above me.

i hate kobe fans. They actuclly think that the Lakers roster w/o Kobe is not a solid team

[TheLogo]

I want them to make the playoffs too but not for the same reasons as the two Kobe fans above me.

Kobe fans on your mind much?

[New York Knicks]

Kobe fans on your mind much?
Kobe on your mind much?

[OnceInADECADE]

Cavs fans where u at? Harrison Barnes or Jared Sulligner?

[opps]

PG: Mo Williams/Ramon Sessions/ Daniel Gibson
SG: Anthony Parker/Danny Green/ Christian Eyenga
SF: Jamrion Moon/ Joey Graham/ Jawad Williams
PF: JJ Hickson/ Antawn Jamsion/ Leo Powe
C: Anderson Varjeo/ Ryan Hollins

This team really sucks. Why did Bryon Scott choose the Cavs?

Jamison will probably start instead of Moon

[OnceInADECADE]

Jamison will probably start instead of Moon

even better :roll:

Jamsion is like what 34 now and he is still chucking and playing no defence lol:roll:

15 wins if that happens:lol

[imdaman99]

Kobe fans on your mind much?
Dude is mad Kobe won 2 championships in a row. He is willing to go as far as saying they didn't need Kobe to win the past 2 years. Clearly hes mad :lol

Even brings up Kobe in a non Kobe thread :roll: Kobe always on his mind

[sixer6ad]

PG: Mo Williams/Ramon Sessions/ Daniel Gibson
SG: Anthony Parker/Danny Green/ Christian Eyenga
SF: Jamrion Moon/ Joey Graham/ Jawad Williams
PF: JJ Hickson/ Antawn Jamsion/ Leo Powe
C: Anderson Varjeo/ Ryan Hollins

This team really sucks. Why did Bryon Scott choose the Cavs?

None of us (Cavs fans) have any room to say anything good or bad about this team. Our only hope is that they play with a chip on their shoulders and that they surprise people. My gut instinct is that they are going to surprise early.

[vert48]

The city of Cleveland is going to have a huge party every year when LeBron gets eliminated from the playoffs.

[OnceInADECADE]

None of us (Cavs fans) have any room to say anything good or bad about this team. Our only hope is that they play with a chip on their shoulders and that they surprise people. My gut instinct is that they are going to surprise early.

the only people going be surpised about how bad the Cavs play would be Kobe homers claiming that Cavs w/o Bron are playoff bound

[jlauber]

I don't think they were even a .500 without Lebron in the past two seasons, when they won 66 and 61 games.

[OnceInADECADE]

The city of Cleveland is going to have a huge party every year when LeBron gets eliminated from the playoffs.

that ***** on your Avatar is banging bro

BTW U MAD?

[imdaman99]

Not with Mo Williams as your franchise player

Maurice"MO SHOTS MO PROBELMS" Williams :roll: classic
Well, how do we know that Lebron didn't stunt the growth of the team? Clearly they became too dependent on him didn't they? It's like this, if you don't get out the wheelchair, how do you expect to ever walk again? The decision diva was the wheelchair and the legs were the Cavs.

Wheelchair is gone, time to start walking. Mo and Jamison have had talented years without the wheelchair haven't they? I'm not saying I am pegging them to be a good team, but stranger things have happened.

[OnceInADECADE]

I don't think they were even a .500 without Lebron in the past two seasons, when they won 66 and 61 games.

U THINK

[New York Knicks]

Dude is mad Kobe won 2 championships in a row. He is willing to go as far as saying they didn't need Kobe to win the past 2 years. Clearly hes mad :lol

Even brings up Kobe in a non Kobe thread :roll: Kobe always on his mind
Lol at this fake Knicks fan that roots for Kobe Bryant. Keep chanting MVP for Kobe at MSG, clown.

[DixieNourmous]

Starting lineup

http://www.ci.clovis.ca.us/SiteCollectionImages/RecreationDivision/Basketball2005.jpg



Seriously though. I hope the Cavs do good this year, The fans had a rough off season.

[TheLogo]

Lol at this fake Knicks fan that roots for Kobe Bryant. Keep chanting MVP for Kobe at MSG, clown.

Kobe on your mind much?

[imdaman99]

Dude is mad :lol :lol :lol

fake knicks fan, as if i win any brownie points for pretending to be a Knicks fan :rolleyes:

Kobe is my fav player in the NBA, oh I suppose Gallinari and Wilson Chandler are yours? :roll:

[OnceInADECADE]

Well, how do we know that Lebron didn't stunt the growth of the team? Clearly they became too dependent on him didn't they? It's like this, if you don't get out the wheelchair, how do you expect to ever walk again? The decision diva was the wheelchair and the legs were the Cavs.

Wheelchair is gone, time to start walking. Mo and Jamison have had talented years without the wheelchair haven't they? I'm not saying I am pegging them to be a good team, but stranger things have happened.

This is the Cavs not Lakers bro.

Mo Williams was chucking on his way to Cleveland when he was in a Bucks uniform.

Antawn Jamsion probaly the worst defender in the L Was chucking in a Wizard uniform

[Micku]

Bookmark this thread and return with future updates.

[New York Knicks]

Dude is mad :lol :lol :lol

fake knicks fan, as if i win any brownie points for pretending to be a Knicks fan :rolleyes:

Kobe is my fav player in the NBA, oh I suppose Gallinari and Wilson Chandler are yours? :roll:
I root for teams not players. What you are is a bandwagon fan. You'll wait for the Knicks to get better then jump back on the bandwagon. We don't need you in the Knicks forum. Stay talking up Kobe, clown.

[oh the horror]

I root for teams not players. What you are is a bandwagon fan. You'll wait for the Knicks to get better then jump back on the bandwagon. We don't need you in the Knicks forum. Stay talking up Kobe, clown.




Dude YOU brought Kobes name into THIS thread though.

[imdaman99]

I root for teams not players. What you are is a bandwagon fan. You'll wait for the Knicks to get better then jump back on the bandwagon. We don't need you in the Knicks forum. Stay talking up Kobe, clown.
Why are you so mad man? I don't come on here to fight but here you are angry that I like Kobe. Whats the deal man? I have been following the Knicks for the past 18 years, which is as long as I have enjoyed basketball. Is it wrong to watch other teams as entertainment? I am definitely a Knicks fan but I am an NBA fan.

Im sorry to tell you there is NO Knicks bandwagon. There is a Laker and Heat bandwagon but there is no Knicks bandwagon. They didn't get Lebron or Wade, they got Amare. I went to 2 games last year and I went to 3 the previous year. They went 5-0 in the games I went. I am not trying to prove my Knick allegiance to you but I am simply stating my position. You don't need to believe sh*t, but it will be you losing sleep over it not me lol. Later dude, relax a lil.

There is a difference in liking Kobe in a time that he is not hurting us than liking MJ in a time when hes killing us. A very big difference. I dont dispute him being the GOAT but I wont like him. Please go outside. Wonderful weather out :cheers:

[imdaman99]

This is the Cavs not Lakers bro.

Mo Williams was chucking on his way to Cleveland when he was in a Bucks uniform.

Antawn Jamsion probaly the worst defender in the L Was chucking in a Wizard uniform
Yeah, I can't say the GM did a good job but he did try to build a team AROUND the diva. I cannot help feeling bad for them and that city though. So is it wrong to wish them well?

[New York Knicks]

Why are you so mad man? I don't come on here to fight but here you are angry that I like Kobe. Whats the deal man? I have been following the Knicks for the past 18 years, which is as long as I have enjoyed basketball. Is it wrong to watch other teams as entertainment? I am definitely a Knicks fan but I am an NBA fan.

Im sorry to tell you there is NO Knicks bandwagon. There is a Laker and Heat bandwagon but there is no Knicks bandwagon. They didn't get Lebron or Wade, they got Amare. I went to 2 games last year and I went to 3 the previous year. They went 5-0 in the games I went. I am not trying to prove my Knick allegiance to you but I am simply stating my position. You don't need to believe sh*t, but it will be you losing sleep over it not me lol. Later dude, relax a lil.

There is a difference in liking Kobe in a time that he is not hurting us than liking MJ in a time when hes killing us. A very big difference. I dont dispute him being the GOAT but I wont like him. Please go outside. Wonderful weather out :cheers:
LOL @ Kobe clowns telling people to go outside when they're inside talking on here. You're a Kobe fan. Tells me enough about your personality. LOL @ this clown continually using the "MJ killed us" excuse to root for Kobe. That makes no sense. I listen to ESPN 1050 almost every morning before work during the season. And during the years Kobe wanted to be traded, (I can't remember how NY ended up in the discussion, but anyway) Knicks fans were calling every day saying that they would not root for Kobe even if he put on a Knick uniform.

[ihatetimthomas]

This team is going to be bad next year. This team was constructed for Lebron, and without him, all they have are perimeter shooters. They do not have an inside presence, and they do not have a guy who can relied upon to create his own shot. Honestly, for the Cavs fans, I would want them to make the playoffs. But that is really not reality. Jamison is past his prime, and Mo is no goto option. Hell, he wasn't even a 2 option with Lebron.

People are going to see how much Lebron meant to this team. Without him, they are lottery bound. Guys like Mo played well with Lebron bc he had a lot of open looks and one of the best passers dishing to him. Lebron got his teammates a lot of easy looks with his presence and passing, thats all out the window now.

[TheLogo]

So suddenly the team with the best record in the league for the past 2 years are going to be a lottery team?

You guys must not watch much basketball.

[imdaman99]

So suddenly the team with the best record in the league for the past 2 years are going to be a lottery team?

You guys must not watch much basketball.
Yeah man didn't you know? They won't even win 15 games now. The Diva adds 50 wins to any team he goes to. The Heat are gonna win 90 now :lol

[OneMoreSucka]

28

[Steve212]

I predict 23-59

[Soundwave]

This team is going to be bad next year. This team was constructed for Lebron, and without him, all they have are perimeter shooters. They do not have an inside presence, and they do not have a guy who can relied upon to create his own shot. Honestly, for the Cavs fans, I would want them to make the playoffs. But that is really not reality. Jamison is past his prime, and Mo is no goto option. Hell, he wasn't even a 2 option with Lebron.

People are going to see how much Lebron meant to this team. Without him, they are lottery bound. Guys like Mo played well with Lebron bc he had a lot of open looks and one of the best passers dishing to him. Lebron got his teammates a lot of easy looks with his presence and passing, thats all out the window now.

The supporting cast wasn't "built for LeBron". They just weren't that great and that was the best the Cavs front office could scrape together.

The current Raptors would win 55 games if you put LeBron on that team. Just about any team in the NBA would have a solid regular season if you put LeBron on the roster.

That doesn't mean the roster is "built" for LeBron. I'm sure LeBron would've liked to have someone with a "inside presence" or someone who could "create their own shot" in Cleveland.

[RazorBaLade]

The supporting cast wasn't "built for LeBron". They just weren't that great and that was the best the Cavs front office could scrape together.

The current Raptors would win 55 games if you put LeBron on that team. Just about any team in the NBA would have a solid regular season if you put LeBron on the roster.

That doesn't mean the roster is "built" for LeBron. I'm sure LeBron would've liked to have someone with a "inside presence" or someone who could "create their own shot" in Cleveland.

u need the ball to create your own shot, lebron wasnt willing to sacrifice stats to win games. we both know this.

[Yung D-Will]

You seem to forget that this guy is getting his minutes

Next season

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Orlando+Magic+v+Cleveland+Cavaliers+Game+5+2Qj79sp IzdYl.jpg

[VIP2000]

So suddenly the team with the best record in the league for the past 2 years are going to be a lottery team?

You guys must not watch much basketball.

You forgot to mention that Delonte West, Shaq, and Big Z are all gone too. The only thing Cleveland has going for it is that the supporting players have fairly good chemistry (unlike a dysfunctional team like Toronto) and some decent up-and-comers (JJ Hickson).

Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison as go-to guys = :facepalm

I'm predicting 26 wins.

[Yung D-Will]

You forgot to mention that Delonte West, Shaq, and Big Z are all gone too. The only thing Cleveland has going for it is that the supporting players have fairly good chemistry (unlike a dysfunctional team like Toronto) and some decent up-and-comers (JJ Hickson).

Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison as go-to guys = :facepalm

I'm predicting 26 wins.
Gibson>>>>>>

[barbaroi]

They'll win 35-40ish I think.
Mo, Parker, Jamison, Hickson, Verejao is a better starting lineup than a lot of teams have. They definitely should be a running team if they want to win games.

[Kurosawa0]

I think you'll see the Cavs be close in a lot of games, but lose them down the stretch. They have no go-to guy. That's going to kill them. You look at the fringe playoff teams in the East and they all have a guy that you can go to at the end of a game, in theory anyway.

New York has Amare.
Indiana has Danny Granger
Charlotte has Stephen Jackson

The Cavs are probably going to have to rely on Mo Williams or Antawn Jamison. That's why I see them ending up somewhere around 30 wins. Too many teams will have better options in the fourth quarter.

[SinJackal]

They're winning around 30, possibly 35-40. Teams don't fall apart just because the star player decides to leave. They still have roughly their whole team besides West and LeBron. Jamison will have a bigger focal point in their offense, and will probably be their go-to guy if Williams and Hickson aren't up to it.

Teams who lose a star player and yet retain their whole squad do not fall apart and get less than 1/3rd it's wins. Historically, it's never happened, or even come close to happening.

If the Cavs actually make the playoffs, LeBron's legacy might take yet another hit, since everyone is assuming LeBron was the whole team. What if it turns out they're .500 or better without him? :\

[Kurosawa0]

If the Cavs actually make the playoffs, LeBron's legacy might take yet another hit, since everyone is assuming LeBron was the whole team. What if it turns out they're .500 or better without him? :\

It means LeBron took a borderline playoff team and made them the top seed in the league. I will never understand how that is considered some kind of negative for LeBron.

[1~Gibson~1]

Cavs nation can only have hope, but according to my realistic brain we wont get into the playoffs and imo we're going to deal Jamison (and maybe even Mo) to a contender at the trade deadline for expirers and draft picks and go into the next year with even more picks, more young talent and alot of mula to spend.

next year is what im really looking for because we all know aint shit happenin for us this year :lol

[Kurosawa0]

Cavs nation can only have hope, but according to my realistic brain we wont get into the playoffs and imo we're going to deal Jamison (and maybe even Mo) to a contender at the trade deadline for expirers and draft picks and go into the next year with even more picks, more young talent and alot of mula to spend.

next year is what im really looking for because we all know aint shit happenin for us this year :lol

They really need to try and get under the cap with some picks. There's no way this team is contending any time soon. All they'll be at best is a fringe playoff team. It's going to hurt, but they've got to try and rebuild.

[1~Gibson~1]

They really need to try and get under the cap with some picks. There's no way this team is contending any time soon. All they'll be at best is a fringe playoff team. It's going to hurt, but they've got to try and rebuild.
i agree. the sad thing is though, that free agents wont come to Cleveland unless we overpay for them. so in order for us to get some all-star/franchise talent we're probably going to go the OKC route and do it through the draft and using our cap space in trades to take on big contracts.

[Kurosawa0]

i agree. the sad thing is though, that free agents wont come to Cleveland unless we overpay for them. so in order for us to get some all-star/franchise talent we're probably going to go the OKC route and do it through the draft and using our cap space in trades to take on big contracts.

Yeah, no one is going to go to Cleveland if they have any other option. I think the Cavs need to be careful though. I think they might try to rebuild on the fly out of pride and it could end up costing them 5-10 years. When you're run is over you have to start from scratch. The only way they're going to get the talent they need to compete for a championship is through the draft. I don't get the feeling they've accepted this though.

[FCN]

If we are smart we will tank, and not win 20 games.

Our squad is semi-decent though. If we try, and go all out, I could see us winning 45-50 games and squeaking into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed.

[Meticode]

PG: Mo Williams/Ramon Sessions/ Daniel Gibson
SG: Anthony Parker/Danny Green/ Christian Eyenga
SF: Jamrion Moon/ Joey Graham/ Jawad Williams
PF: JJ Hickson/ Antawn Jamsion/ Leo Powe
C: Anderson Varjeo/ Ryan Hollins

This team really sucks. Why did Bryon Scott choose the Cavs?
I think you're one of the few people who feel they'll only win that many. There was a similar thread made like this and most people feel they'll win 30-40.

[OnceInADECADE]

I think you're one of the few people who feel they'll only win that many. There was a similar thread made like this and most people feel they'll win 30-40.

nope i think its 33wins at best

[Ikill]

This team is going to be bad next year. This team was constructed for Lebron, and without him, all they have are perimeter shooters. They do not have an inside presence, and they do not have a guy who can relied upon to create his own shot. Honestly, for the Cavs fans, I would want them to make the playoffs. But that is really not reality. Jamison is past his prime, and Mo is no goto option. Hell, he wasn't even a 2 option with Lebron.

People are going to see how much Lebron meant to this team. Without him, they are lottery bound. Guys like Mo played well with Lebron bc he had a lot of open looks and one of the best passers dishing to him. Lebron got his teammates a lot of easy looks with his presence and passing, thats all out the window now.
yeah thats why they all started to play worse when they got to clevland seriously lebron makes his teamates worse.

[Ikill]

is the monta ellis deal still on?

[OnceInADECADE]

yeah thats why they all started to play worse when they got to clevland seriously lebron makes his teamates worse.

no maybe is because they have smaller roles

[Scribbles]

Are you serious? They won 60+ the last 2 seasons, you think they're going to win 20 games this season? :roll:

[Bigsmoke]

they might win 35 games

[Ikill]

no maybe is because they have smaller roles
that could be true but he still doesn't make them better

[OnceInADECADE]

that could be true but he still doesn't make them better

wtf Anderson Varejo says hola!!

[SinJackal]

It means LeBron took a borderline playoff team and made them the top seed in the league. I will never understand how that is considered some kind of negative for LeBron.

They're missing more than just LeBron. . .Shaq and Z are also gone, and it's not like they can replace LeBron or Shaq/Z with even an average player at the same position. So now they are thin at C and SF, and must replace with draft picks. They also lost Delonte West who is actually pretty decent. That's a lot to replace with scrubs/rookies, don't you think?

The Cavs the last 2 years minus LeBron + an average SF, = easily playoffs each year. Not 60+ wins, no. LeBron's a great player. But if the Cavs win let's say 45 games. . .minus both their centers and their star, that is pretty impressive. Remove the top player off any team and they're lucky to be .500. See: Rockets, or Lakers when Shaq left. They were barely .500 teams.

If the Cavs are still .500 or better, and not magically 60 game losers like people think, it means LeBron's impact is no better than any other star in the league's impact, which in turn makes him still a star, but less special.

[Kurosawa0]

They're missing more than just LeBron. . .Shaq and Z are also gone, and it's not like they can replace LeBron or Shaq/Z with even an average player at the same position. So now they are thin at C and SF, and must replace with draft picks. They also lost Delonte West who is actually pretty decent. That's a lot to replace with scrubs/rookies, don't you think?

The Cavs the last 2 years minus LeBron + an average SF, = easily playoffs each year. Not 60+ wins, no. LeBron's a great player. But if the Cavs win let's say 45 games. . .minus both their centers and their star, that is pretty impressive. Remove the top player off any team and they're lucky to be .500. See: Rockets, or Lakers when Shaq left. They were barely .500 teams.

If the Cavs are still .500 or better, and not magically 60 game losers like people think, it means LeBron's impact is no better than any other star in the league's impact, which in turn makes him still a star, but less special.

Whatever. People are going to try and find ways to bash the guy. Logic be damned.

[New York Knicks]

How the Cavs do has no impact at all on LeBron's legacy because it's gonna be a completely different team under Byron Scott. And no Big Z, no Shaq, no West. I really don't know how this team's gonna win any games. They don't even have the PG needed to run Byron Scott's system. This is gonna be a disaster.

[Carbine]

They're missing more than just LeBron. . .Shaq and Z are also gone, and it's not like they can replace LeBron or Shaq/Z with even an average player at the same position. So now they are thin at C and SF, and must replace with draft picks. They also lost Delonte West who is actually pretty decent. That's a lot to replace with scrubs/rookies, don't you think?

The Cavs the last 2 years minus LeBron + an average SF, = easily playoffs each year. Not 60+ wins, no. LeBron's a great player. But if the Cavs win let's say 45 games. . .minus both their centers and their star, that is pretty impressive. Remove the top player off any team and they're lucky to be .500. See: Rockets, or Lakers when Shaq left. They were barely .500 teams.

If the Cavs are still .500 or better, and not magically 60 game losers like people think, it means LeBron's impact is no better than any other star in the league's impact, which in turn makes him still a star, but less special.

Big Z wasn't an important player last year... and Delonte is replaceable when you factor in Boobie Gibson will be playing his minutes. There isn't enough difference between Boobie and Delonte to make a difference in win/loss totals, IMO.

Shaq is clearly a loss, but with the way some feel about him, it's addition by subtration because Hickson gets to play a lot more.

So, in the end... really not a big difference between this year and last year, except LeBron, who might've made up a 30 win difference....which is absolutely shocking.

[SinJackal]

Whatever. People are going to try and find ways to bash the guy. Logic be damned.

How was I bashing LeBron? I like LeBron. I was just speaking the truth.

/logic fail

[RedBlackAttack]

Whatever. People are going to try and find ways to bash the guy. Logic be damned.
On the contrary... People are finding ways to bash the City of Cleveland and the Cavaliers' franchise... Logic be damned.

However you -- as a LeBron James fan -- feel about the amount of criticism that he has received over the last few months, I feel it times 100 in regards to the near constant mindless criticism that all things Cleveland has been taking for years.

The team built around James for the last several years HAS NOT been a bad one. There is a ton of revisionist history going on, here, wherein people are trying to convince others that James had absolutely nothing in Cleveland. That team was good.

In fact, if you want to see a BAD team built around a great player, look no further than Miami over the last several years.

[New York Knicks]

On the contrary... People are finding ways to bash the City of Cleveland and the Cavaliers' franchise... Logic be damned.

However you -- as a LeBron James fan -- feel about the amount of criticism that he has received over the last few months, I feel it times 100 in regards to the near constant mindless criticism that all things Cleveland has been taking for years.

The team built around James for the last several years HAS NOT been a bad one. There is a ton of revisionist history going on, here, wherein people are trying to convince others that James had absolutely nothing in Cleveland. That team was good.

In fact, if you want to see a BAD team built around a great player, look no further than Miami over the last several years.
The team was built entirely around one player. That's not how to build a championship team. They couldn't function when James wasn't playing. Look at the Lakers. That's how you build a team. They don't miss a beat when Kobe's not playing.

[brwnman]

That is a terrible squad, and what's gonna be bad about this team, is when you look towards the future, there is only one guy that you can consider a piece, the rest are players that are either in their prime or past it, so they do nothing for your future.

J.J. Hickson will be a nice complementary player in the future on a good team, if Cleveland fans are expecting more out him, they shouldn't. He's not that great. Just a good complementary player. He's like Millsap in a way, just that he will never be as good, but can have a similar impact.

If I'm Cleveland, I'm looking to sell for expirers. They are in decent cap position, but say somebody takes Jamison off your hands for an expirer, you take it and run. Ditto for Varejao. If they can do that, they'll be in position for a quick fix and back to contending sooner than later. If they decide they're going to be trying with marginal players with no real star or future to look at. They'll once again become a perennial 25-30 win game team...

[Kurosawa0]

How was I bashing LeBron? I like LeBron. I was just speaking the truth.

/logic fail

I'm saying that trying to act like the Cavs' going from a 1 seed to only an 8 seed somehow should make LeBron less of a player is stupid. It's reaching and trying to come up with a reason to bash the guy. The wrap on the LeBron's supporting cast was that they weren't championship material. I don't see how getting to the 8th seed somehow proves that they were. There's just no logic to the argument.


On the contrary... People are finding ways to bash the City of Cleveland and the Cavaliers' franchise... Logic be damned.

However you -- as a LeBron James fan -- feel about the amount of criticism that he has received over the last few months, I feel it times 100 in regards to the near constant mindless criticism that all things Cleveland has been taking for years.

The team built around James for the last several years HAS NOT been a bad one. There is a ton of revisionist history going on, here, wherein people are trying to convince others that James had absolutely nothing in Cleveland. That team was good.

In fact, if you want to see a BAD team built around a great player, look no further than Miami over the last several years.

No, that criticism is just. The problem with defending the team that LeBron had was not once did he have a player beside him that could be the best player on the floor on any given night. In those losses to Boston and Orlando, there wasn't another guy on that team playing well. They always shrank and disappeared. You can blame how the team was built for that, but it's still what happened.

That supporting cast had the perfect chance in Game Five against Boston to prove their worth. LeBron went out, shit the bed, no question there. What a good team does there is still compete and keep it close. It's what the Lakers did in Game Seven of the Finals. What'd the Cavs do? They lost by 25 points.

[oh the horror]

The team was built entirely around one player. That's not how to build a championship team. They couldn't function when James wasn't playing. Look at the Lakers. That's how you build a team. They don't miss a beat when Kobe's not playing.



Lakers have a far better coach in Phil, than Cleveland did in Brown.....With that being said, they looked lost because their offense literally revolved around James holding the ball, or being in literally every single play. Without him, they had to adjust majorly.


LA's offense is ran entirely different. Triangle makes it easier on a lot of people at once.


I wouldnt say however, that LA doesnt "miss a beat"....they're a little off. They do sometimes play better though, and a lot of that is BECAUSE of the offense they run.


Frankly, I dont know wtf they were thinking in Cleveland.

[SinJackal]

On the contrary... People are finding ways to bash the City of Cleveland and the Cavaliers' franchise... Logic be damned.

However you -- as a LeBron James fan -- feel about the amount of criticism that he has received over the last few months, I feel it times 100 in regards to the near constant mindless criticism that all things Cleveland has been taking for years.

The team built around James for the last several years HAS NOT been a bad one. There is a ton of revisionist history going on, here, wherein people are trying to convince others that James had absolutely nothing in Cleveland. That team was good.

In fact, if you want to see a BAD team built around a great player, look no further than Miami over the last several years.

I was actually trying to say the Cavs had a better team than people thought, wasn't bashing them. :X



I'm saying that trying to act like the Cavs' going from a 1 seed to only an 8 seed somehow should make LeBron less of a player is stupid. It's reaching and trying to come up with a reason to bash the guy. The wrap on the LeBron's supporting cast was that they weren't championship material. I don't see how getting to the 8th seed somehow proves that they were. There's just no logic to the argument.


So to you, there would be no difference between the Cavs winning 20 games, 40 games, or 60 games next season?

What exactly is the cut off for you to where the amount of games they win would diminish the perception that LeBron was "the whole team"? I'm curious. If you think they will win 20 games, but that 40 games means nothing, what would mean something? Only 60+?

I simply disagree. A team minus their best player + minus two other top 5 pieces being .500 the next year means the overall team was very good. Look how many fail teams there are that aren't even .500 WITH stars.

[oh the horror]

A team minus their best player + minus two other top 5 pieces being .500 the next year means the overall team was very good. Look how many fail teams there are that aren't even .500 WITH stars.

Agreed. I cant see how this can even be a debate.


If Cleveland is able to win at least 40 something games, then to me, that is a victory for them personally...even though in reality of course, it'll mean d*ck.

[Kurosawa0]

I was actually trying to say the Cavs had a better team than people thought, wasn't bashing them. :X





So to you, there would be no difference between the Cavs winning 20 games, 40 games, or 60 games next season?

What exactly is the cut off for you to where the amount of games they win would diminish the perception that LeBron was "the whole team"? I'm curious. If you think they will win 20 games, but that 40 games means nothing, what would mean something? Only 60+?

I simply disagree. A team minus their best player + minus two other top 5 pieces being .500 the next year means the overall team was very good. Look how many fail teams there are that aren't even .500 WITH stars.

I said before that I think they need to win 50 games to make it look bad on LeBron. The Lakers would be a 50 win team without Kobe and that's the benchmark. The Bulls won 55 games the season after Michael went to play baseball.

It's not just about having a decent supporting cast. It's about having one that's championship caliber. Do you really want to argue that the Cavs were that good?

I'm not saying that it wasn't the best supporting cast LeBron had. I'm saying that it wasn't enough to put with any player and expect them to beat teams that are far more talented. I don't see how the fact that they might win 41 games automatically proves that they were the super supporting cast. I watched the games. They just weren't that good.

[Kurosawa0]

Actually the only way to know would be to bring back Mike Brown and the same slow offense. Byron Scott looks to be planning to turn this the Cavs into a running team and that really changes the equation. It's like they'll be an entirely different team.

[barbaroi]

That supporting cast had the perfect chance in Game Five against Boston to prove their worth. LeBron went out, shit the bed, no question there. What a good team does there is still compete and keep it close. It's what the Lakers did in Game Seven of the Finals. What'd the Cavs do? They lost by 25 points.
:lol You are comparing the way Lebron played in game 5 to the way Kobe played in game 7? You mean the game where just about everyone on the floor, not just Kobe, was scoring at or below the rate of 1 point per FGA? You mean the game where Kobe set the tone in absolutely stifling defense and dominating rebounding? You mean the game where Kobe and his team had a chance to quit, down 13, and didn't, where Kobe led a 4th quarter comeback? As the leader goes, so the team goes. Lebron quit, and utterly sapped the energy from the Cavs that night. That reflects poorly on Lebron, not his teammates. That's a terrible example to choose to show Lebron's teammates failing him.

[Kurosawa0]

:lol You are comparing the way Lebron played in game 5 to the way Kobe played in game 7? You mean the game where just about everyone on the floor, not just Kobe, was scoring at or below the rate of 1 point per FGA? You mean the game where Kobe set the tone in absolutely stifling defense and dominating rebounding? You mean the game where Kobe and his team had a chance to quit, down 13, and didn't, where Kobe led a 4th quarter comeback? As the leader goes, so the team goes. Lebron quit, and utterly sapped the energy from the Cavs that night. That reflects poorly on Lebron, not his teammates. That's a terrible example to choose to show Lebron's teammates failing him.

The Lakers could've easily have done the same. Kobe went out and played horribly. The rest of the team could've freaked and given up. They didn't and ended up taking advantage when Boston couldn't score in the 4th. That's what championship supporting casts do.

Okay, you don't like that one. How about when Phil Jackson had to put out his second unit in game six on the 1992 Finals? The Bulls fell behind big to Portland, but they had the depth and talent to fight back and actually win the championship that night.

That's the difference. You can bash LeBron all you want for game five. He deserves it. That doesn't still doesn't hide the fact that the Cavs needed LeBron to play well every night for them have a chance and that doesn't cut it for championship supporting casts. Even the best of players will have bad, even horrible games. Championship supporting casts don't implode and get blown out when it happens.

[SinJackal]

I said before that I think they need to win 50 games to make it look bad on LeBron. The Lakers would be a 50 win team without Kobe and that's the benchmark. The Bulls won 55 games the season after Michael went to play baseball.

It's not just about having a decent supporting cast. It's about having one that's championship caliber. Do you really want to argue that the Cavs were that good?

I'm not saying that it wasn't the best supporting cast LeBron had. I'm saying that it wasn't enough to put with any player and expect them to beat teams that are far more talented. I don't see how the fact that they might win 41 games automatically proves that they were the super supporting cast. I watched the games. They just weren't that good.

FIFTY games? gtfo dude. No team in the NBA now would win 50 games without it's top player. If they won 50 games it meant LeBron barely had an impact. I'm not arguing that LeBron didn't have an impact, he obviously does being the best player in the NBA. The Cavs do not have to win fifty frickin games and get home court in the first round to be considered a good team.

So they have to be as good as the Celtics last year basically? Is what you're saying. :roll:

If they're .500 or better, that's a huge win for the Cavs after all this doomsaying that they're a lottery team, especially after losing Shaq, LeBron, Z, and West all at once with no notable FAs to fill their places.

And fyi, the Bulls also barely won 47 games the year after even with MJ coming in at the end of the season to help them (they were 13-4 with MJ, meaning they were a sad 34-31 without him). The Lakers barely won 55 games with Kobe this last season. Teams that lose their stars in the west don't make the playoffs (See; Rockets), though the Lakers do have the best overall team if you subtract their star. They wouldn't still be a top team. . .that's silly.

Then again, nobody is saying the Cavs are as good as the Lakers or MJ's Bulls, so I'm not sure why you're comparing them to those teams. The Cavs wouldn't have won 61 games next season even with LeBron due to the power shift in the east.

The Cavs weren't a championship team even with LeBron, so to say they're a failure if they aren't one without him is just ludicrous. A better than .500 record while missing most of their key players proves that their team was better than expected. As I already said, there are teams with actual stars on them that don't make .500. Raptors (Bosh), Pacers (Granger), Grizzlies, Hornets, etc. And there are fail teams with stars on them as well. .500 is also equal to what D Rose/Deng/Noah did last season. A team that's considered a top team this year with a few players added to it.

I don't even see how this is a discussion. If the Cavs win over half their games with no stars, they prove themselves imo.

Or do I need to list off all the teams who have barely been over .500 that have won championships? (Rockets)

[Kurosawa0]

FIFTY games? gtfo dude. No team in the NBA now would win 50 games without it's top player. If they won 50 games it meant LeBron barely had an impact. I'm not arguing that LeBron didn't have an impact, he obviously does being the best player in the NBA. The Cavs do not have to win fifty frickin games and get home court in the first round to be considered a good team.

So they have to be as good as the Celtics last year basically? Is what you're saying. :roll:

If they're .500 or better, that's a huge win for the Cavs after all this doomsaying that they're a lottery team, especially after losing Shaq, LeBron, Z, and West all at once with no notable FAs to fill their places.

And fyi, the Bulls also barely won 47 games the year after even with MJ coming in at the end of the season to help them (they were 13-4 with MJ, meaning they were a sad 34-31 without him). The Lakers barely won 55 games with Kobe this last season. Teams that lose their stars in the west don't make the playoffs (See; Rockets), though the Lakers do have the best overall team if you subtract their star. They wouldn't still be a top team. . .that's silly.

Then again, nobody is saying the Cavs are as good as the Lakers or MJ's Bulls, so I'm not sure why you're comparing them to those teams. The Cavs wouldn't have won 61 games next season even with LeBron due to the power shift in the east.

The Cavs weren't a championship team even with LeBron, so to say they're a failure if they aren't one without him is just ludicrous. A better than .500 record while missing most of their key players proves that their team was better than expected. As I already said, there are teams with actual stars on them that don't make .500. Raptors (Bosh), Pacers (Granger), Grizzlies, Hornets, etc. And there are fail teams with stars on them as well. .500 is also equal to what D Rose/Deng/Noah did last season. A team that's considered a top team this year with a few players added to it.

I don't even see how this is a discussion. If the Cavs win over half their games with no stars, they prove themselves imo.

Or do I need to list off all the teams who have barely been over .500 that have won championships? (Rockets)

No, what's ridiculous is setting some idea that the Cavs making the playoffs proves that LeBron wasn't all that or something. To me, to set the standard that would make LeBron look as bad as some of these people want, the Cavs need to win fifty games. For the Cavs to win 40 games would mean that LeBron was worth around 25 games to the team and would mean he was one hell of an asset and as special to the team as any other player is in the league to his team.

Okay, say the Cavs win 39 games and get the 9th seed. What does that mean? I feel like the bar is set really low for the Cavs to make LeBron look bad. If LeBron had this great team that should've beaten the Celtics, they'd need to be better than the 8th seed. Sorry.

How about we agree that it's ridiculous to judge LeBron on how the Cavs do next year? As you said they lost a bunch of players and they're going to running a whole different system.

[chazzy]

No, what's ridiculous is setting some idea that the Cavs making the playoffs proves that LeBron wasn't all that or something. To me, to set the standard that would make LeBron look as bad as some of these people want, the Cavs need to win fifty games. For the Cavs to win 40 games would mean that LeBron was worth around 25 games to the team and would mean he was one hell of an asset and as special to the team as any other player is in the league to his team.

Okay, say the Cavs win 39 games and get the 9th seed. What does that mean? I feel like the bar is set really low for the Cavs to make LeBron look bad. If LeBron had this great team that should've beaten the Celtics, they'd need to be better than the 8th seed. Sorry.

How about we agree that it's ridiculous to judge LeBron on how the Cavs do next year? As you said they lost a bunch of players and they're going to running a whole different system.

It's not about making Lebron look bad, it would disprove the common belief that the rest of the roster is just trash that overachieved solely because of Lebron's superhuman ability.

[SinJackal]

No, what's ridiculous is setting some idea that the Cavs making the playoffs proves that LeBron wasn't all that or something. To me, to set the standard that would make LeBron look as bad as some of these people want, the Cavs need to win fifty games. For the Cavs to win 40 games would mean that LeBron was worth around 25 games to the team and would mean he was one hell of an asset and as special to the team as any other player is in the league to his team.

Okay, say the Cavs win 39 games and get the 9th seed. What does that mean? I feel like the bar is set really low for the Cavs to make LeBron look bad. If LeBron had this great team that should've beaten the Celtics, they'd need to be better than the 8th seed. Sorry.

How about we agree that it's ridiculous to judge LeBron on how the Cavs do next year? As you said they lost a bunch of players and they're going to running a whole different system.

I didn't say it means LeBron sucks. It would mean the Cavs weren't as bad as LeBron excuse makers are trying to make everyone believe.

I already said this several times. I like LeBron. I just think it's ludicrous to act like the Cavs were a shitty team besides LeBron, because that is beyond false.

And yes, I don't think they need to play as well as the eastern conference champions next season to prove that they're a good team without LeBron. I think they only need to make the playoffs to prove it.

You see, you're arguing that LeBron doesn't suck because of it, but I am not debating that. I'm debating that the Cavs weren't as shitty as people are trying to lead everyone to believe. That's all. And as f ar as LeBron goes, all it goes to show is that he wasn't the whole team, why is that so difficult for you to accept? I don't get it.

[Kurosawa0]

I didn't say it means LeBron sucks. It would mean the Cavs weren't as bad as LeBron excuse makers are trying to make everyone believe.

I already said this several times. I like LeBron. I just think it's ludicrous to act like the Cavs were a shitty team besides LeBron, because that is beyond false.

And yes, I don't think they need to play as well as the eastern conference champions next season to prove that they're a good team without LeBron. I think they only need to make the playoffs to prove it.

You see, you're arguing that LeBron doesn't suck because of it, but I am not debating that. I'm debating that the Cavs weren't as shitty as people are trying to lead everyone to believe. That's all. And as f ar as LeBron goes, all it goes to show is that he wasn't the whole team, why is that so difficult for you to accept? I don't get it.

All I'm saying was that unless that team plays like one of the better teams in the conference, they weren't championship caliber. I never said they were trash. The 2007 Cavs were trash. The 2010 version was not. They just weren't good enough to help any player win a championship. I'm saying that even if they make the playoffs, it doesn't somehow diminish how important and vital LeBron James was to that team being contenders.

I think we actually agree.

[Simple Jack]

:lol You are comparing the way Lebron played in game 5 to the way Kobe played in game 7? You mean the game where just about everyone on the floor, not just Kobe, was scoring at or below the rate of 1 point per FGA? You mean the game where Kobe set the tone in absolutely stifling defense and dominating rebounding? You mean the game where Kobe and his team had a chance to quit, down 13, and didn't, where Kobe led a 4th quarter comeback? As the leader goes, so the team goes. Lebron quit, and utterly sapped the energy from the Cavs that night. That reflects poorly on Lebron, not his teammates. That's a terrible example to choose to show Lebron's teammates failing him.

You make it sound as if Kobe had an epic game 7. Anyone watching knows this wasn't the case. He was what, 3-17 at one point? Taking ill-advised shots for nearly all of the game.

[LA_Showtime]

Honestly, I could care less that James supposedly stopped playing hard in games 3, 5, and 6 or whatever. The Cavaliers weren't winning a championship anyway, and after you hear those kind of rumors for so long it becomes old. What I want to know is what the hell was wrong with James' elbow? Since it was such a "significant" injury you would think ESPN would update it regularly, but no.

[All Net]

Due to how hard Cavs will work to win games they will win more than we all expect. Effort counts for alot in the regular season.

[SinJackal]

All I'm saying was that unless that team plays like one of the better teams in the conference, they weren't championship caliber. I never said they were trash. The 2007 Cavs were trash. The 2010 version was not. They just weren't good enough to help any player win a championship. I'm saying that even if they make the playoffs, it doesn't somehow diminish how important and vital LeBron James was to that team being contenders.

I think we actually agree.

Oh okay. Yeah we probably do agree then. The Cavs obviously can't go anywhere without LeBron, he was their playmaker, their star, and their go-to guy. . .but I don't think they were all shitty like everyone says. They just choked in the playoffs is all. It happens

[jbryan1984]

I don't think we will be that bad, seriously. I say we win at least 30 games unless something goes horribly wrong with injuries. Come mid season, if we have an OK record, I think we have a good shot at #8 seed. In the 2 games LeBron sat out last year in the middle of the season we went 1 and 1. We lost our last 4 games. To Chicago by 1 point without LeBron and Shaq. To the Pacers by 3 points without LeBron, Shaq, Jamison or Mo. To Orlando by 6 without LeBron, Parker or Shaq. Atlanta killed us by 16 without Mo, LeBron, Andy or Shaq (Parker and Jamison played limited minutes).

[G-train]

The city of Cleveland is going to have a huge party every year when LeBron gets eliminated from the playoffs.

What a city!



:rolleyes:

[chris2010]

so lebron won 120 regular season games and 3 playoff series the past 2 years all by himself.

[arcslnga]

Cleveland beats Miami on December 2. BOOK IT :banana: :banana:

[jbryan1984]

Another thing I wanted to point out is confidence is always a must have on a team. This team is used to winning so they are going to be confident. That is why I don't think the Knicks who acquired Amar'e and Felton will do anything this year because that team is used to losing. It could also effect the Bulls who a lot of people feel will be #3 or 4 this year in the East but they are so used to being a 41-41 team, it could have an effect on them. Its the same reason Boston made it so much further than anyone predicted, that team is used to winning while the media and everyone else was saying the big 3 were old men well past their primes. So with confidence, a demanding coach in Scott (Mike Brown, excellent defensive coach, but to nice) a couple former all-stars, the summer leagues most dominant player and possibly the NBA's most improved player in Hickson and one of the best defensive men in the league in Varejao, I think we have a ball team still. I've heard people compare us to the 1999 Bulls. But I mean look at who they lost, their entire team almost! Coach Jackson, Jordan, Pippen, Rodman. I think Ron Harper and Toni Kukoc are the only 2 who stayed on that team that mattered, that is why they did so poor. We lost LeBron, our coach, Shaq and Z. Well, of course LeBron is going to hurt. Some feel we were better without Shaq and much quicker which is what Scott will want from the team, quickness. As for Z, we love him to death here but he really aint $hit anymore. He is a big who can hit just inside the 3 point line and can block in bounds and do some offensive rebounding but we already have one of the best offensive rebounders in the league anyway. I think the Cavs will be OK, not a contender but we will not win no 20 games.

[RoseCity07]

Yet I was playing 2k9 with current rosters, and they beat me while I was the lakers. My friends was doing chesse passes to Verajao who was dunking like prime Shaq. Delonte West was swatting Kobe. Lebron was dunking with virtually from the free throw line with no momentum.

I can't wait to see if the Cavs players all still play like all stars in 2k11 now that Lebron is goine.

[fatboy11]

They'll win at least 30 games next season.

[Sarcastic]

so lebron won 120 regular season games and 3 playoff series the past 2 years all by himself.

Pretty much.

[zORi]

Yet I was playing 2k9 with current rosters, and they beat me while I was the lakers. My friends was doing chesse passes to Verajao who was dunking like prime Shaq. Delonte West was swatting Kobe. Lebron was dunking with virtually from the free throw line with no momentum.

I can't wait to see if the Cavs players all still play like all stars in 2k11 now that Lebron is goine.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices this.

My friend actually doesn't care for the Cavs in real life, but he always picks them when we play together because he can basically do whatever he wants with anyone. I have no problem beating people online, though, as they tend to only know how to play with one person (James).

I bet Mario Chalmers is gonna look like Chris Paul in 2K11.

[chris2010]

Pretty much.

i thought u werent kidding, but then i seen ur name

[imdaman99]

I'm saying that trying to act like the Cavs' going from a 1 seed to only an 8 seed somehow should make LeBron less of a player is stupid. It's reaching and trying to come up with a reason to bash the guy. The wrap on the LeBron's supporting cast was that they weren't championship material. I don't see how getting to the 8th seed somehow proves that they were. There's just no logic to the argument.



No, that criticism is just. The problem with defending the team that LeBron had was not once did he have a player beside him that could be the best player on the floor on any given night. In those losses to Boston and Orlando, there wasn't another guy on that team playing well. They always shrank and disappeared. You can blame how the team was built for that, but it's still what happened.

That supporting cast had the perfect chance in Game Five against Boston to prove their worth. LeBron went out, shit the bed, no question there. What a good team does there is still compete and keep it close. It's what the Lakers did in Game Seven of the Finals. What'd the Cavs do? They lost by 25 points.
Do you remember the series between the Cavs and Celtics in 2008? Do you remember the first 2 games of that series where Lebron was beyond putrid? Do you remember those games being close? I do. And the Celtics were better that year as well. Why? Because they were champions. Why did that series go 7 with every game being close, and this past year it was 6 games with 3 blowout losses? Now I am not saying the Cavs 2008 team was championship caliber, but they put a helluva bigger fight than the team this year. Did it have anything to do with their superstar giving it his all that year? I wish someone had answers for these questions, because I don't.

[Jasper]

If Byron Scott is smart - he will run Gib & Sessions together or Mo Williams and Sessions together in the back court for at least 25 minutes a game to challenge the opposition.

But Jamison will be his focal point in his offense I am afraid to say.

I hope JJ gets some serious minutes at the 4 spot and Scott uses him in some legit set plays .... if this happens the Cav's could be interesting.

Sessions is realy underrated as well as JJ.

You will see if they play together they will have some pretty good chemistry ... but for the rest of the team .. :banghead:

[Fatstogie]

They are a playoff team.

Watch how better they play as a team without Lebron.

LMAO i wouldnt go that far. Mo williams will choke. I think Hickson is gonna have a good season. I also expect parker to do ok. But i wouldnt say play off team.

[Indian guy]

Do you remember the series between the Cavs and Celtics in 2008? Do you remember the first 2 games of that series where Lebron was beyond putrid? Do you remember those games being close? I do. And the Celtics were better that year as well. Why? Because they were champions. Why did that series go 7 with every game being close, and this past year it was 6 games with 3 blowout losses? Now I am not saying the Cavs 2008 team was championship caliber, but they put a helluva bigger fight than the team this year. Did it have anything to do with their superstar giving it his all that year? I wish someone had answers for these questions, because I don't.

Anyone with a clue about the '08 Celtics knows they were completely out of sorts the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Ray Allen couldn't hit a shot and they couldn't score to save their lives on the road. They had more trouble defeating Atlanta and Cleveland than the 2nd and 3rd best team in basketball - LAL and Detroit. What does that tell you? Cleveland taking Boston to 7 in '08 has nothing to do with LeBron playing "harder". Look up all 3 of their victories in that series, they didn't play well by any stretch in them. Heck, they shot 33% in Game 6 and still won! The 2010 Celtics would've swept Cleveland's ass in 2008.

[Aye Dee]

Anyone with a clue about the '08 Celtics knows they were completely out of sorts the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Ray Allen couldn't hit a shot and they couldn't score to save their lives on the road. They had more trouble defeating Atlanta and Cleveland than the 2nd and 3rd best team in basketball - LAL and Detroit. What does that tell you? Cleveland taking Boston to 7 in '08 has nothing to do with LeBron playing "harder". Look up all 3 of their victories in that series, they didn't play well by any stretch in them. Heck, they shot 33% in Game 6 and still won! The 2010 Celtics would've swept Cleveland's ass in 2008.



Yea the 08 Cavs team was very average with no team chemistry! The Celtics just played horrible the first two rounds...

[chains5000]

They are a playoff team.

Watch how better they play as a team without Lebron.
:facepalm

[jbryan1984]

Do you remember the series between the Cavs and Celtics in 2008? Do you remember the first 2 games of that series where Lebron was beyond putrid? Do you remember those games being close? I do. And the Celtics were better that year as well. Why? Because they were champions. Why did that series go 7 with every game being close, and this past year it was 6 games with 3 blowout losses? Now I am not saying the Cavs 2008 team was championship caliber, but they put a helluva bigger fight than the team this year. Did it have anything to do with their superstar giving it his all that year? I wish someone had answers for these questions, because I don't.



That is why everyone around here is saying LeBron gave up this year. Look at that series in 2008 and this years series. There is no comparison, something like that does not happen to a player like LeBron. Now, come October and LeBron has lost his talent I will say I was wrong but I am betting he has not lost his talent, he just did in that series for some strange reason. LeBron played his heart out in 08 and we had a much, much better cast around him then in 2008. This years series was just a bunch of LeBron turnovers. They recently replayed one of those on NBA TV and I purposely kept my eyes on LeBron and I swear it looks like he is passing the ball to Boston! He had like 13 turnovers in game 6.

[cavsfanatic]

No way we gone be that sorry. People forget Mo averaged 17-7 on 47% fg shooting. he shot 46% with the cavs but he was a spot up shooter. Mo can't pass worth a damn though but he a good shooter...in the regular season.

Lebron must be the greatest player of all time if he can win 40 games by himself.

[cavsfanatic]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices this.

My friend actually doesn't care for the Cavs in real life, but he always picks them when we play together because he can basically do whatever he wants with anyone. I have no problem beating people online, though, as they tend to only know how to play with one person (James).

I bet Mario Chalmers is gonna look like Chris Paul in 2K11.
when lebron left i didn't play him on 2k10 and i was still waxing people online. I just shot 3's as i expect the cavs to do in real life.

mo
ap
moon
jamison
andy

that was my starting 5 and i was beasting people who was playing with celtics,lakers and magic lmao.

thank god its football season O-H-I-O!!!

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:


This OnceInADECADE guy is pretty smart :cheers: :cheers:


too bad he got banned ............ i was a fan of his

[jbryan1984]

Its not even that the roster is that bad. For starters, its the NBA, you can't say a team has no talent. Last years Nets were about the closet thing to a no talent team I ever saw in the league. The problem is, they have no heart. They give up. They start out just about every game ready to play and come the fourth quarter, they quit. You really can't explain it any other way when you go back and look at the beginning of the season. If you compare them to the Nets, people were thinking the Nets were not even going to win a game at one point last year. And I'm not making excuses, it is the players faults. Its all on them. That's why most of them will not be back next year. I'd seriously keep Varejao, Gibson, Eyenga, Harris and maybe Hickson but get rid of everyone else.

[M.V.P]

Did a poster say playoffs and playing better with LeBron? I just read this whole thread and he was on the first page. Too bad he's banned now...would've been nice to see him show up here and explain himself.

[Simple Jack]

Its not even that the roster is that bad. For starters, its the NBA, you can't say a team has no talent. Last years Nets were about the closet thing to a no talent team I ever saw in the league. The problem is, they have no heart. They give up. They start out just about every game ready to play and come the fourth quarter, they quit. You really can't explain it any other way when you go back and look at the beginning of the season. If you compare them to the Nets, people were thinking the Nets were not even going to win a game at one point last year. And I'm not making excuses, it is the players faults. Its all on them. That's why most of them will not be back next year. I'd seriously keep Varejao, Gibson, Eyenga, Harris and maybe Hickson but get rid of everyone else.

Last years nets? The team with Brook Lopez and Devin Harris? Since when are they untalented? In fact, I'd go as far as to say that both are better than anyone on the Cavaliers of last year/years prior.

[Meticode]

Cleveland Rocks! Cleveland Rocks Cleveland Rocks! The good old memories.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/cavaliers-team-photo.jpg

[ginobli2311]

Last years nets? The team with Brook Lopez and Devin Harris? Since when are they untalented? In fact, I'd go as far as to say that both are better than anyone on the Cavaliers of last year/years prior.

for sure. harris and lopez would easily be the two best players lebron ever played with in cleveland.

harris is mo williams with ten times better defense and much more toughness.

lol at the guy calling the nets untalented. put lebron on the current nets and they challenge to win 60.

[strifed169]

Cleveland Rocks! Cleveland Rocks Cleveland Rocks! The good old memories.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/cavaliers-team-photo.jpg

you gotta feel for the cavs fans no matter what team youre rooting for with memories like these

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cvd0uJ-eRcw/0.jpg

anyone know of a HD version of this pic?

[jbryan1984]

for sure. harris and lopez would easily be the two best players lebron ever played with in cleveland.

harris is mo williams with ten times better defense and much more toughness.

lol at the guy calling the nets untalented. put lebron on the current nets and they challenge to win 60.



Again, I said they were probably the closest thing to a no talent team I have seen. Its the NBA, there is no untalented teams. And I'm not cracking on Lopez and Harris at all but besides them who did they have? Courtney Lee was about the next best player and after that, mostly scrubs, several not even in the league anymore.

[Soundwave]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: at TheLogo

[da dream]

They are a playoff team.

Watch how better they play as a team without Lebron.

lol...i guess better equals a 55 point loss and worst record in the league :roll:

[Indian guy]

So many gems in this thread :oldlol:. A lot of 'em by Kobe fanboys and jilted Cleveland fans who've suddenly adopted a bogus "it's not the same team" garbage.


Originally Posted by imdaman99
Im hoping they win enough to be the 8th seed


Originally Posted by barbaroi
They'll win 35-40ish I think.
Mo, Parker, Jamison, Hickson, Verejao is a better starting lineup than a lot of teams have.


Originally Posted by FCN
Our squad is semi-decent though. If we try, and go all out, I could see us winning 45-50 games and squeaking into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed.


Originally Posted by chazzy
It's not about making Lebron look bad, it would disprove the common belief that the rest of the roster is just trash that overachieved solely because of Lebron's superhuman ability.


Originally Posted by All Net
Due to how hard Cavs will work to win games they will win more than we all expect.


Originally Posted by jbryan1984
I don't think we will be that bad, seriously. I say we win at least 30 games unless something goes horribly wrong with injuries. Come mid season, if we have an OK record, I think we have a good shot at #8 seed.


Another thing I wanted to point out is confidence is always a must have on a team. This team is used to winning so they are going to be confident. That is why I don't think the Knicks who acquired Amar'e and Felton will do anything this year because that team is used to losing. It could also effect the Bulls who a lot of people feel will be #3 or 4 this year in the East but they are so used to being a 41-41 team, it could have an effect on them. So with confidence, a demanding coach in Scott (Mike Brown, excellent defensive coach, but to nice) a couple former all-stars, the summer leagues most dominant player and possibly the NBA's most improved player in Hickson and one of the best defensive men in the league in Varejao, I think we have a ball team still. We lost LeBron, our coach, Shaq and Z. Well, of course LeBron is going to hurt. Some feel we were better without Shaq and much quicker which is what Scott will want from the team, quickness. As for Z, we love him to death here but he really aint $hit anymore. He is a big who can hit just inside the 3 point line and can block in bounds and do some offensive rebounding but we already have one of the best offensive rebounders in the league anyway. I think the Cavs will be OK, not a contender but we will not win no 20 games.


Cleveland beats Miami on December 2. BOOK IT :banana: :banana:


No way we gone be that sorry. People forget Mo averaged 17-7 on 47% fg shooting. he shot 46% with the cavs but he was a spot up shooter. Mo can't pass worth a damn though but he a good shooter...in the regular season.

Lebron must be the greatest player of all time if he can win 40 games by himself.

[da dream]

No way we gone be that sorry. People forget Mo averaged 17-7 on 47% fg shooting. he shot 46% with the cavs but he was a spot up shooter. Mo can't pass worth a damn though but he a good shooter...in the regular season.

Lebron must be the greatest player of all time if he can win 40 games by himself.

This is the only true statement I found so far :applause:

[CanadaBBallFan]

^^^ Wow...you're right, I see a lot of LeBron haters/Kobe&Lakers fans there trying to use the Cavs record to undermine LeBron. Even though they would have said LeBron meant nothing if they won 40 games, they still won't admit how impressive LeBron is with them crawling to 20 wins. :banghead:

[Wuxia]

to be fair they are still in playoff contention. 7.5 games out of that elusive 8th seed.

[Ne 1]

^^^ Wow...you're right, I see a lot of LeBron haters/Kobe&Lakers fans there trying to use the Cavs record to undermine LeBron. Even though they would have said LeBron meant nothing if they won 40 games, they still won't admit how impressive LeBron is with them crawling to 20 wins. :banghead:

Except this isn't even the same Cavs team at all.

Different coach, different system and they lost LeBron, Big Z, Shaq and Delonte West with no adequate replacements.

[Wuxia]

lol@ big z and delonte west....

[creepingdeath]

They are a playoff team.

Watch how better they play as a team without Lebron.
I miss TheLogo. :(

[Bigsmoke]

they might win 35 games

holy shit :oldlol:

[Simple Jack]

Except this isn't even the same Cavs team at all.

Different coach, different system and they lost LeBron, Big Z, Shaq and Delonte West with no adequate replacements.

Those guys missed 70+ last year while the Cavaliers continued to stay elite.

[New York Knicks]

Except this isn't even the same Cavs team at all.

Different coach, different system and they lost LeBron, Big Z, Shaq and Delonte West with no adequate replacements.
Kobe fans lol.

[Walduś]

tanking the season.

[da dream]

Except this isn't even the same Cavs team at all.

Different coach, different system and they lost LeBron, Big Z, Shaq and Delonte West with no adequate replacements.

All you Kobe fans need to know is that when Kobe was "the man" and had no other superstar on his team (2004-2007), his combined record was 121 - 125 (not including post season) with 2 playoff appearances and 2 first round exits.

During those same years when Lebron had no other superstar and was in his 2nd, 3rd and 4th year in the league the Cavaliers had a combined record of 142 - 101 (not including post season) with 2 playoff appearrances including 1 finals appearance and a trip to the East Semi's.

While I'm not going to debate who the better player is, it appears lebron is worth more to a team than kobe is.

[New York Knicks]

All you Kobe fans need to know is that when Kobe was "the man" and had no other superstar on his team (2004-2007), his combined record was 121 - 125 (not including post season) with 2 playoff appearances and 2 first round exits.

During those same years when Lebron had no other superstar and was in his 2nd, 3rd and 4th year in the league the Cavaliers had a combined record of 142 - 101 (not including post season) with 2 playoff appearrances including 1 finals appearance and a trip to the East Semi's.

While I'm not going to debate who the better player is, it appears lebron is worth more to a team than kobe is.
Note: The year without Phil, the Lakers won 34 games.

[Rose]

Haha. Good bump.potentially, season's not over!

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Haha. Good bump.potentially, season's not over!
Prime OIAD>>>>8BeastlyXOIAD and it's not even close

[da dream]

Note: The year without Phil, the Lakers won 34 games.

and even in those two years with phil, the cavs still had a better record each of those seasons. The year the Lakers won 34, The cavaliers had 2 coaches and still won more games.

Plus its Kobe Bryant. He should be able to get his team more than 34 wins, no?

[Ne 1]

2 playoff appearances and 2 first round exits.


Yeah, in the vastly superior western conference with a bunch of guys who aren't even in the league anymore.

Also like how you left out that Kobe led the Lakers to the #1 seed in the superior west without another superstar.



it appears lebron is worth more to a team than kobe is.


Who cares? Not even really sure what this is supposed to mean.


adding 5 championships >>> adding some regular season victories

[Poochymama]

Except this isn't even the same Cavs team at all.

Different coach, different system and they lost LeBron, Big Z, Shaq and Delonte West with no adequate replacements.

Big Z, Shaq, and West missed a lot of games, combined they add no more than 5-7 wins.

[Simple Jack]

Yeah, in the vastly superior western conference with a bunch of guys who aren't even in the league anymore.

Also like how you left out that Kobe led the Lakers to the #1 seed in the superior west without another superstar.




Who cares? Not even really sure what this is supposed to mean.


adding 5 championships >>> adding some regular season victories


It means LeBron is more valuable to his team than any current player in the NBA. Without Kobe, Lakers still function; they don't collapse to the worst team in the league.

Since when is Gasol not a superstar? It's hard to find a much better 2nd option.

[Rose]

Prime OIAD>>>>8BeastlyXOIAD and it's not even close
I can roll with that.

[da dream]

Yeah, in the vastly superior western conference with a bunch of guys who aren't even in the league anymore.

Also like how you left out that Kobe led the Lakers to the #1 seed in the superior west without another superstar.

When was this? If your talking about when Paul Gasol arrived and the lakers won the championship, than I would consider Gasol another superstar. He was already one of the best PF's in the leauge.

But from 2004-2007 when Kobe was the only one, he did not lead them to anything.

[ginobli2311]

Except this isn't even the same Cavs team at all.

Different coach, different system and they lost LeBron, Big Z, Shaq and Delonte West with no adequate replacements.

how is sessions not and adequate replacement for delonte?

how is jamison (who only played 25 games last year) not an adequate replacement?

how is hickson getting more minutes not an adequate replacement?

and all the guys you mentioned above missed 70 combined games last year.

here are the cold hard facts:

shaq.....30 missed games. 23 minutes a game
west.....22 missed games. 25 minutes a game
big z.....18 missed games (6 total games started all year). 21 minutes a game

so not one player of those guys played more than 25 minutes a game. LOL.

[Ne 1]

Note: The year without Phil, the Lakers won 34 games.

Because Kobe, Odom and Butler missed a combined 39 games that year. Rudy T also left but before him leaving the Lakers were 24-19.

[Walduś]

When was this? If your talking about when Paul Gasol arrived and the lakers won the championship, than I would consider Gasol another superstar. He was already one of the best PF's in the leauge.

But from 2004-2007 when Kobe was the only one, he did not lead them to anything.
before the lakers got gasol in 08 they had the #1 seed.

[Droid101]

When was this? If your talking about when Paul Gasol arrived and the lakers won the championship, than I would consider Gasol another superstar. He was already one of the best PF's in the leauge.

But from 2004-2007 when Kobe was the only one, he did not lead them to anything.
No. Stop re-writing history.

For one, Kobe was injured for much of that 04-05 season.

Second, yes, in 07-08, BEFORE the Gasol trade, the Lakers held the number one seed in the western conference in mid January. Then Bynum went down, then they hit a 3 game losing streak, then they traded for Gasol and the rest is history.

[Miller Time]

I just want to point out my superior basketball knowledge. I told you Cavs would suck this year, I had them as a bottom 2 team in the East. I wish I could bump all these threads where some of you predicted them as the 7th or 8th seed.

[New York Knicks]

No. Stop re-writing history.

For one, Kobe was injured for much of that 04-05 season.

Second, yes, in 07-08, BEFORE the Gasol trade, the Lakers held the number one seed in the western conference in mid January. Then Bynum went down, then they hit a 3 game losing streak, then they traded for Gasol and the rest is history.
Lol in 04-05 they had a better record without Kobe than with him.

[Ne 1]

how is sessions not and adequate replacement for delonte?

how is jamison (who only played 25 games last year) not an adequate replacement?

how is hickson getting more minutes not an adequate replacement?

and all the guys you mentioned above missed 70 combined games last year.

here are the cold hard facts:

shaq.....30 missed games. 23 minutes a game
west.....22 missed games. 25 minutes a game
big z.....18 missed games (6 total games started all year). 21 minutes a game

so not one player of those guys played more than 25 minutes a game. LOL.


Sessions and Hickson are young players with potential but not close to the key players that they lost. They aren't close to adequate replacements for the veteran leaders they lost in LeBron, Shaq, Big Z and West.

[Walduś]

Lol in 04-05 they had a better record without Kobe than with him.
username: new york knicks

knick fan? you seem like bronzy fanboy. :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

It means LeBron is more valuable to his team than any current player in the NBA. Without Kobe, Lakers still function; they don't collapse to the worst team in the league.

Since when is Gasol not a superstar? It's hard to find a much better 2nd option.

Don't see your point.

I could argue that David Robinson was more valuable to the Spurs than Jordan was to the Bulls. But who gives a sh*t?

Gasol is defiantly a superstar but he left out the fact that Kobe led the Lakers to the #1 seed in the West before they acquired Gasol and with Bynum and Ariza missing much of the season.

[da dream]

before the lakers got gasol in 08 they had the #1 seed.

Mid season doesn't mean anything. At the end of the year the lakers won the west by 1 game, and there division by 2 games. If Gasol doesn't show up, the lakers are at best a #6 seed that year. Gasol is the reason why they were able to make it to the finals. Without him, they would never have beaten the Jazz.

[ginobli2311]

Sessions and Hickson are young players with potential but not close to the key players that they lost. They aren't close to adequate replacements for the veteran leaders they lost in LeBron, Shaq, Big Z and West.

delonte west provides no leadership at all. he's literally crazy and was more of a negative than positive last year.

sessions this year > west last year....really not a debate actually.
jamison provides a ton of leadership and easily impacts the game more positively than big z for example

losing shaq does hurt a bit. never said it didn't, but the simple fact is that lebron was able to overcome not having shaq for a majority of last year as well and still win 61. and lebron didn't have shaq in 09 and somehow won 66....

and you can't factor in lebron leaving as well. of course thats a huge loss. that is what we are debating.

i see no evidence why a lebron led cavs team this year would not challenge to win 60 again (assuming relative health) when we already saw him win 66 relying on guys like west/gibson/wally/pavlovic/wallace/smith

[ShaqAttack3234]

Mid season doesn't mean anything. At the end of the year the lakers won the west by 1 game, and there division by 2 games. If Gasol doesn't show up, the lakers are at best a #6 seed that year. Gasol is the reason why they were able to make it to the finals. Without him, they would never have beaten the Jazz.

Well, the Lakers were 25-11 when Bynum went down(Bynum had missed one game which they won), they then went 5-5 until they acquired Pau and went 15-3, but Pau left a game after 3 minutes, which they lost, and including that game, they went 5-5 until Pau returned, and they finished the season 7-1 with Pau.

So

The Lakers w/ Bynum- 24-11
The Lakers w/ Gasol- 22-4
The Lakers w/o either of them- 11-10

Kobe did a great job leading that team, but of course Gasol was that final piece that took them to the next level. Bynum was getting better, but his injury was probably a blessing in disguise because we don't know if they would've gotten Gasol and Bynum doesn't impact a game like Pau does.

And one of the Cavs biggest problems this year is that they aren't playing defense like they did the past few years, that, and the fact that they don't have a first option. The biggest difference is Lebron, but when I look at how much their defense has fallen off, I appreciate Mike Brown a lot more than I did.

[fatboy11]

They'll win at least 30 games next season.

Boy, was I sure wrong or what?

I figured Jamison and Hickson would be a good inside duo along with Varejao rebounding and doing the dirty work. Thought Powe would be a good big off the bench, and Hollins is serviceable. I also think I've thought too highly, for some reason, of Ramon Sessions the past couple of seasons.

I also likely underestimated the Eastern conference as well (a classic trait of mine).

[Dwade305]

They are a playoff team.

Watch how better they play as a team without Lebron.
what a ****ing retard Waldus is :lol You failed so bad kid

[Kujo]

I predicted the Cavs would have the worst record in the league this year. The way they started the season gave me doubts, but reality was restored.

Honestly, I hope the Cavs get the number pick this year. They deserve better.

[da dream]

it would be ironic if they finish with the same 17-65 record they had prior to lebron coming to town

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

OnceInADECADE=Nostradamus?

[chips93]

OnceInADECADE=Nostradamus?
:lol

all you can do is laugh really

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

:lol

all you can do is laugh really
:oldlol: :oldlol:

but seriously who was this OnceInADECADE guy:confusedshrug:

seems like a excellent poster IMO


TOO COOL FOR SKOOL