Hornets/Rockets/Pacers/Nets Trade w/Murphy, Ariza, Lee, Others...

[niko]

TWITTER
STEIN_LINE_HQ RT @chadfordinsider: Hornets/Rockets/Pacers/Nets working on 4-team deal. Ariza to NO. C. Lee to HOU. Collison/Posey to IND. Murphy to NJ.

So says Mark Stein.

[boozehound]

wait, so indy gives up murphy for collison and posey? Wow, thats a good upgrade there for them. I gotta think there are some missing pieces to this trade.

[niko]

wait, so indy gives up murphy for collison and posey? Wow, thats a good upgrade there for them. I gotta think there are some missing pieces to this trade.
It sounds like it. I fail to see what the Nets are doing. Murphy for Lee? When they already have bigs who need to play?

[KNOW1EDGE]

Not happening.

Since when did people begin believing everything they read on the internet?

oh yeah, ever since al gore created the internet.lol

[HannibalKid]

Bet ariza wishes he resigned with LA, gonna be bounced to "no fans" land in new Orleans

[Skep]

Only team that gets better with this trade is Indy.

[leopoldstotch]

a clear sign where hornets organization is trying to make moves to keep chris paul in NO. :lol

advantage pacers in this trade.

[wang4three]

New Orleans can do better for Collison.

[wang4three]

It sounds like it. I fail to see what the Nets are doing. Murphy for Lee? When they already have bigs who need to play?

Troy's Morristown's finest? I don't know. I just think they find Favors not ready for a starting role at the moment and we do need a rebounder. I'm not a big fan of this, but I'm also not a big fan of Courtney Lee. It seems as if Avery wants Terrence at the 2 position anyway.

EDIT: Troy's an expiring contract. Maybe they're clearing cap again?

[iDunk]

Murphy is not worth Collison.

[2LeTTeRS]

It sounds like it. I fail to see what the Nets are doing. Murphy for Lee? When they already have bigs who need to play?

The Nets don't have a seasoned vet among their bigs though, and I think asking Favors to play more than about 25-30 mins a night is too much for him right off the bat. Bringing Murph in there helps ensure that he's not thrown out to the wolves too soon. I really like this deal for the Nets.


EDIT: Troy's an expiring contract. Maybe they're clearing cap again?

Yep thats also an important thing to remember. As things stand the Nets should be able to add a max guy next season, and now they have a line-up that should be competitive and could win 25-30 wins under Coach Avery Johnson.

[Droid101]

The Nets don't have a seasoned vet among their bigs though, and I think asking Favors to play more than about 25-30 mins a night is too much for him right off the bat. Bringing Murph in there helps ensure that he's not thrown out to the wolves too soon. I really like this deal for the Nets.
That's funny if the Rockets get rid of Ariza so fast after signing him, seeing as they thought they were robbing the Lakers at the time.

[jbryan1984]

This trade is good for everyone but Houston. Why give up Ariza for Lee?

[Droid101]

This trade is good for everyone but Houston. Why give up Ariza for Lee?
They must be getting a pick/cash/salary relief over the long term or it's not worth it.

[Miller Time]

This trade is good for everyone but Houston. Why give up Ariza for Lee?

This is pretty much what I thought. I like it a lot for Indy though. I have wished for them to pursuit Darren Collison for some time now.

Al though I believe it when it happens. Collison would be great for the Pacers.

[jbryan1984]

I also think Darren Collison will have the PG job at Indy. Sorry TJ.

[niko]

Troy's Morristown's finest? I don't know. I just think they find Favors not ready for a starting role at the moment and we do need a rebounder. I'm not a big fan of this, but I'm also not a big fan of Courtney Lee. It seems as if Avery wants Terrence at the 2 position anyway.

EDIT: Troy's an expiring contract. Maybe they're clearing cap again?

I don't think it's a bad trade, but i think it's a nothing trade. Murphy is a slug, he's a guy who gets meaningless numbers on horrible teams. If you tell me he's coming off the bench i'm fine, but i think Favors needs to get the majority of the minutes. For the Nets to become this really really good team, Favors has to be a stud. I just don't want him getting less minutes to try to win 25 games instead of 22.

[fatboy11]

This trade is good for everyone but Houston. Why give up Ariza for Lee?Get that contract off the books. Lee's a good little player to have on your team and they owe Ariza 6-7 million in each of the next 4 years.

Houston will actually be a good bit under the cap next summer if they dump Ariza. I'm okay with it as a Rockets fan. I thought they overpaid for him all along, but he's still a good player. He was just overpaid and playing a larger role than he should in an ideal world.

Obviously the 1st year play for Budinger was encouraging as it looks like he'll be playing a bigger role if this trade goes through.

[niko]

I REALLY don't get this trade for NO. Yes, it gets rid of the other PG and gets another player for Paul, but it's a complimentary piece on a team that needs much more than that. They can't get more for Collison than this?

[fatboy11]

I gotta say.....I don't like this trade at all for New Orleans. They gave up the best back-up point guard in the league (and possible future starter if Paul leaves) and they get back a younger version of James Posey (but with 2 more years on his contract). I don't like it. I bet Chris Paul doesn't like it either.

I don't see this making them better.

Not really sure why Jersey wants Murphy, though. At least it's just for a year. Figured they let Favors start right away. :confusedshrug:

Indiana's the clear winner by finally getting the point guard they've wanted for years.

[Droid101]

I REALLY don't get this trade for NO. Yes, it gets rid of the other PG and gets another player for Paul, but it's a complimentary piece on a team that needs much more than that. They can't get more for Collison than this?
Ariza is a pretty good player to take a bunch of alley-oops from CP.

They should be able to get more for Collison, but other teams know the Hornets have that logjam that makes him expendable, which is why they will always be lowballed for him.

[niko]

Ariza is a pretty good player to take a bunch of alley-oops from CP.

They should be able to get more for Collison, but other teams know the Hornets have that logjam that makes him expendable, which is why they will always be lowballed for him.

So don't trade him. It's August 11th. Taking the first deal you can on August 11th?

[Droid101]

So don't trade him. It's August 11th. Taking the first deal you can on August 11th?
Hey, I'm not saying it's smart. They're trying to do damage control for all the CP3 "make the team better or I'm gone" rumors.

[CLTHornets4eva]

I also think Darren Collison will have the PG job at Indy. Sorry TJ.

I have to agree, in fact I think TJ Ford will be traded before the season starts. They tried to trade him last season, but couldn't find any takers.

[2LeTTeRS]

Ariza is a pretty good player to take a bunch of alley-oops from CP.

They should be able to get more for Collison, but other teams know the Hornets have that logjam that makes him expendable, which is why they will always be lowballed for him.

I disagree. New Orleans made the mistake of not publicly broadcasting their intentions of dealing Collison, so teams didn't give them their best offers. I can guarantee you Charlotte would have given up much more than Trevor Ariza for the chance to take on a talent like that.

[Droid101]

I disagree. New Orleans made the mistake of not publicly broadcasting their intentions of dealing Collison, so teams didn't give them their best offers. I can guarantee you Charlotte would have given up much more than Trevor Ariza for the chance to take on a talent like that.
I'm sure that phone calls are going on constantly that we never hear about.

But, now that there is a "rumor" out there, don't you think other teams hear them and send in their own best offers?

What would Charlotte have given for Collison that New Orleans (or one of the other teams in the four-way) would have wanted?

[2LeTTeRS]

I have to agree, in fact I think TJ Ford will be traded before the season starts. They tried to trade him last season, but couldn't find any takers.

I agree, and I'm glad he wasn't moved since Larry Brown was trying to give up Gerald Wallace to get him. I could still see him ending up in Charlotte if the Pacers are willing to take back Boris Diaw and pay him for an extra year.

[2LeTTeRS]

I'm sure that phone calls are going on constantly that we never hear about.

But, now that there is a "rumor" out there, don't you think other teams hear them and send in their own best offers?

What would Charlotte have given for Collison that New Orleans (or one of the other teams in the four-way) would have wanted?

Stephen Jackson for starters. If the Hornets really want to win now Jax is a better piece beside Paul than Ariza. Add in a pick or 2 and you have a much better offer.

[AI3Anthony]

I really don't like this trade for any team. NO can get more for Collison right now. His trade value is very high.

[New York Knicks]

Meh, I woulda given up Wilson Chandler for Collison. He's around the same player as Ariza. The Knicks should've explored a trade like that before signing Felton.

[AI3Anthony]

This link explains the trade in further depth. Any questions are answered here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5455472

[New York Knicks]

I also think Darren Collison will have the PG job at Indy. Sorry TJ.
He DEFINITELY will. That's not even debatable.

[mayo'sgrizz]

I really don't like this trade for any team. NO can get more for Collison right now. His trade value is very high.


i mean it works out for indy tho. troy murphy for darren collison :lol
what a steal. best young PG in NBA. gonna put up numbers in indy. TJ Ford......GET BACK TO THE BENCH

[AI3Anthony]

i mean it works out for indy tho. troy murphy for darren collison :lol
what a steal. best young PG in NBA. gonna put up numbers in indy. TJ Ford......GET BACK TO THE BENCH

Best young PG in the NBA? Debateable.

[2LeTTeRS]

Oh also didn't mention it but love this deal for the Pacers. Getting a possible all-star quality 2nd year point guard for Murph is a lot better than that trash the Cavs were offering last year.

I have a few questions about the Pacers though - Who is the Pacers starting shooting guard? I like what I've heard about George but can he even play the 2? Has Brandon Rush improved at all since he's been in the league?

EDIT - Forgot about Lance Stephenson, I hear the Pacers were impressed with him at summer league but they don't think he can start this year do they?

[kurple]

I don't get this for NOLA

They should rather do something like this

Okafor & Posey -4- Kenyon Martin
Collison -4- Roy Hibbert + future 2nd round pick

[Se]

This trade is good for everyone but Houston. Why give up Ariza for Lee?

Because they are aiming to have an offensive player and defensive player at each position?

CT: Yao (DEF) / Miller (OFF)
PF: Scola (DEF) / Patterson (OFF)
SF: Battier (DEF) / Budinger (OFF)
SG: Martin (OFF) / Lee (DEF)
PG: Brooks (OFF) / Lowry (DEF)

With Hill, Jefferies, Harris, Hayes, Johnson & Taylor.
Very well rounded team.

[AI3Anthony]

Houston did the trade to relieve themselves on some Salary Cap. If you read the link I posted after resigningKyle Lowry and Luis Scola and then signing Brad Miller they were 8mil over the luxury tax. This move for them was to shed a contract.

[franchise#3]

I like this trade for all participating teams.

[mayo'sgrizz]

Best young PG in the NBA? Debateable.

who else would u consider big homie. (i mean excluding rose,cp3,dwill)
i kno they young but they all stars already who would u take over collison thts come out in last 3 drafts?

[dd24]

Indy definitely got better with this move. I think it makes sense for the Nets too. It suprises me that people thought Favors would start and play major minutes this year when most of the experts considered him more of a project type of guy who needs a year or two before being an impact type player. I think getting Murphy in there gives them someone solid next to Lopez and really solidifies their front line. Houston loses out talent wise on this but I guess they save the money they want. I think the Hornets were trying to show Paul they were committed to him somewhat. Besides they also got a guy who will come in and be a starter rather than a 6th man too. I like the trade for them. There was no reason to have both Collison and Paul on that roster.

[The_Yearning]

Darren Collison ain't that good man...dude is a shooter though.

[the_chosen_1]

ESPN says it is just waiting on league approval as of 2:27 pm.

If this goes down it may be the best move Bird has ever made.

[kabalcage]

This is rare. Great trade for all teams.

New Orleans has a credible starting SF, can move Peja to the bench. Also get rid of Posey's contract.

Pacers get their starting PG.

New Jersey could be the biggest winners here; they get a massive expiring $12m contract. A good start for the summer of Carmelo; he's from Brooklyn, isn't he?

Rockets already have talent at SF and get a cheaper guy that was useful on ECF champs Orlando Magic. I'd still like to have Lee, he was a pretty good role player.

[New York Knicks]

Darren Collison ain't that good man...dude is a shooter though.
Sounds like someone that's never seen him play.

[gasolina]

My 2 cents.

1. Did NOLA shit themselves in the face by trading away Collison if ever Chris Paul decides we wants to be a full fledged Diva and joins the Knicks (or some other team) next year?

2. TJ Ford is most likely out of the rotation. By the end of last season it was Earl Watson who was playing heavy minutes backed up by Price.

[mayo'sgrizz]

Darren Collison ain't that good man...dude is a shooter though.


how ya figure hes not tht good?? every team was after him including the lakers. while cp3 was injured he averaged 19 pts 7 ast and 4 rebs on a sorry hornets squad..

[The_Yearning]

how ya figure hes not tht good?? every team was after him including the lakers. while cp3 was injured he averaged 19 pts 7 ast and 4 rebs on a sorry hornets squad..

Exactly on a sorry team...there was nobody else to score the ball and dish it so he took on the reigns. But we'll see.

[boozehound]

My 2 cents.

1. Did NOLA shit themselves in the face by trading away Collison if ever Chris Paul decides we wants to be a full fledged Diva and joins the Knicks (or some other team) next year?

2. TJ Ford is most likely out of the rotation. By the end of last season it was Earl Watson who was playing heavy minutes backed up by Price.
paul is locked up for 2 more seasons. anything before 2012 offseason would have to be a trade.


Also, how does this trade work financially? NJN are absorbing extra salary in t murph( they have cap space), but how is Houston sending out 6.9 mil and only taking 1.3 back? Cant combine players and TEs.

[Se]

2. TJ Ford is most likely out of the rotation. By the end of last season it was Earl Watson who was playing heavy minutes backed up by Price.

The Pacers are in the stages of negotiating a buyout with TJ Ford. It's going to be interesting seeing what team he goes to. My money is on the Hawks for the minimum.

[Se]

Also, how does this trade work financially? NJN are absorbing extra salary in t murph( they have cap space), but how is Houston sending out 6.9 mil and only taking 1.3 back? Cant combine players and TEs.


That's not a problem. Houston can take back as little salary as they want, they just can't take back more than 125% of Ariza's salary due to being over the cap.

[mayo'sgrizz]

Exactly on a sorry team...there was nobody else to score the ball and dish it so he took on the reigns. But we'll see.


just go to his game log on nba.com and look at his numbers he put up vs very good opponents.

[YouGotServed]

[QUOTE=Se

[boozehound]

[QUOTE=Se

[chazzy]

Julian Wright was just traded for Belinelli in a separate deal

[Se]

Scola is good at taking charges. Other than that, he's not known for his defense, in fact, his post defense is below average. His offense stands out more than his defense.

My bad. I should have put, Scola (OFF) / Jefferies (DEF) . Patterson won;t get many minutes as a rookie

[icewill36]

wtf is N.O. thinking ? they can get more, plus theres no guarantee paul will stay. this is just horrible

[paintingshade]

[QUOTE=Se

[SCY]

Scola is good at taking charges. Other than that, he's not known for his defense, in fact, his post defense is below average. His offense stands out more than his defense.

He is more of an offensive player, but his pick & roll defense is exceptional.

[LA_Showtime]

Uh, what? Indy makes out like bandits, while the Nets continue to show the blueprint for greatness...

[D-Rose]

Hmm, trade is baffling in some ways...NO is getting too little value. houston just giving away Ariza?

Works good for the Nets and Indy.

EDIT: Ford just said the trade is official. I do like the Wright for Bellinelli swap NO made.

[Jr Llaban]

**** yes. My man DC can get more PT over @ the Pacers.

Ariza, i wish he stayed in LA after his great season 2 years back, but now he'll play with a guy who can get him open looks (CP3). NO is probably showing CP3 they're dedicated to bringing in talent to make him happier.

[gasolina]

[QUOTE=Se

[D-Rose]

Hornets need a backup PG now so maybe they pickup Ford after he's waived.

I really thought Collison had more value than this, then again maybe the Posey contract had to do with getting less back.

[Nets fan 93]

I looooooove it.

[Se]

Maybe it's his attitude?

It is.
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/01/04/t-j-ford-the-latest-pacer-point-guard-to-fall-out-of-favor/
^ I was lazy with my sources, sorry. But this sums up the situation pretty well. TJ Ford actually was pissed about the amount of minutes he was playing and the coaches wanted better defense and shot selection out of him.

Maybe he goes to Europe? China? LOL

[icewill36]

**** yes. My man DC can get more PT over @ the Pacers.

Ariza, i wish he stayed in LA after his great season 2 years back, but now he'll play with a guy who can get him open looks (CP3). NO is probably showing CP3 they're dedicated to bringing in talent to make him happier.

ariza got open looks in adelmans offense, he just sucks. hes not made for a major role on a team. this MUST have been CP3's idea, wanting N.O. to show hes their guy. this is still a dumb move though

[2LeTTeRS]

[QUOTE=Se

[ElPigto]

Awesome trade for Houston. I liked how Ariza was panning out with Martin in the line up, however this trade really gives our team more balance. Courtney is going to be excellent of our bench and is a capable starter for when/if Martin gets injured.

I think the motivation behind this trade was 1) salary reasons, this lets Houston pay less tax and 2) Houston wants Budinger as a future starter and with Ariza in the fold, this just wasn't going to work out.

Should be a fun season in Houston :).

[AMISTILLILL]

Such a confusing trade. Ariza is a great prospect as a young, athletic wing but I'm not entirely sure it's worth giving up solid defensive presence of Posey off the bench as well as a guy like Collison, who can ball and is a bit of insurance at the PG spot in case a) CP3 gets injured again or b) makes a stink and demands a trade. Hornets are reaaaally taking a chance here, and I'm not sure the addition of a guy like Ariza was what Paul had in mind when asking the organization to start making moves.

Pacers are the obvious winners in this trade. That goes undisputed. Doesn't change their playoff berth implications but it could help them win a few more games in the regular season.

[Se]

If this is true expect Ford to sign with the Bobcats. We need a starting point guard terribly at this point.

You have two better starting options right now in Augustin and Livingston.

Livingston, Jackson and Wallace. Nasty defense

[bagelred]

Musical freakin' chairs

[Showtime]

a clear sign where hornets organization is trying to make moves to keep chris paul in NO. :lol

advantage pacers in this trade.
Yes, and in the process it's killing their own chances. There's no way they get better with Ariza, because he's just a solid role player, NOT a #2 option on a team. And since they have no other PG who can produce, CP will still have a huge load on his shoulders, have to play 38+ minutes a game, and will get injured and worn out come playoffs...yet agian. And, CP will still leave once his deal is up, meaning the hornets will be right back into looking for a PG, when they already gave away their future PG.

We have seen the team attempt to make ANY kind of upgrade with talent by making stupid moves. They overpaid Mo Pete to get him from Toronto. They gave Peja a max deal when he was a FA in Indy. They paid Posey WAY too much money to get him from Boston. And now, when they can finally get some young talent to build on, they go make another move to dump Posey's deal and attempt to fill a hole on the wing with a player who is overrated. They keep trying to patch holes in a ship, and not realizing they are only helping it sink faster.

[Se]

Grade for the Pacers: A+
They get a point guard for the future and a good character guy in Posey. They are left with a hole at power forward though. Hansborough and Foster are going to need to be healthy and ready to contribute.

Grade for the Nets: B
Murphy and Lopez seem like an odd pairing. No defense and they're both jump shooters. I really don't see why they gave up Lee. Doesn't really make sense. Still, it's a talent upgrade.

Grade for the Rockets: A-
Great play here. Budinger needed more minutes and Ariza didn't really fit in. Lee is good insurance for Martin and this gives the bulk of the small forward minutes to Battier (superior defender to Ariza) and Budinger (superior shooter to Ariza)

Grade for the Hornets - D
They got rick-rolled. Hornets GM gets an e-mail with a link saying, 'Check out this hot double dildo action' Fool clicks on it, and gets Rick Astley.

[Se]

They keep trying to patch holes in a ship, and not realizing they are only helping it sink faster.

They'll be the next NBA team to be relocated.

[fatboy11]

Awesome trade for Houston. I liked how Ariza was panning out with Martin in the line up, however this trade really gives our team more balance. Courtney is going to be excellent of our bench and is a capable starter for when/if Martin gets injured.

I think the motivation behind this trade was 1) salary reasons, this lets Houston pay less tax and 2) Houston wants Budinger as a future starter and with Ariza in the fold, this just wasn't going to work out.

Should be a fun season in Houston :).Pretty much how I feel.

I didn't have a problem with Ariza. I thought he was a bit overpaid, but I've never once thought to myself that he should be traded. But the Rockets are starting to get guys tied up in long term deals. Flexibility was needed. Houston could be in a good position for the 2011 offseason (excluding the possibility of a lock out) with Yao, Battier, Jeffries, and Hayes all coming off the books and shedding about 4.5 million going from Ariza to Lee. Yao's future is certainly very much in doubt and Battier isn't a young man anymore. This move should give us almost 20 million to play with in the offseason. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know a chunk of that will have towards locking up Brooks).

[Rowe]

Wow.

If the Hornets really would give up on Collison just to get Ariza, that says a lot about where their Franchise is headed. Either they got some picks, or they are confident CP3 can make Ariza a better player.

[Showtime]

Wow.

If the Hornets really would give up on Collison just to get Ariza, that says a lot about where their Franchise is headed. Either they got some picks, or they are confident CP3 can make Ariza a better player.
They are headed into Knick territory. And that depresses me greatly.

[Nets fan 93]

[QUOTE=Se

[Rowe]

They are headed into Knick territory. And that depresses me greatly.

When they start signing cancers and overpaying backups then they're just starting their journey to 00-08 Knick territory.

Hornets need to get a new owner fast, either that or just bite the bullet and relocate out of New Orleans. New Orleans is probably the worst basketball market in the NBA, thats a football city & football state.

[flipogb]

They are headed into Knick territory. And that depresses me greatly.
nah only Chris Paul is heading into Knick territory , hehe

[Showtime]

When they start signing cancers and overpaying backups then they're just starting their journey to 00-08 Knick territory.

Mo Pete.

Peja.

Posey.

They have already been overpaying people. And now they trade a possible star PG for a role player.


Hornets need to get a new owner fast, either that or just bite the bullet and relocate out of New Orleans. New Orleans is probably the worst basketball market in the NBA, thats a football city & football state.

[bagelred]

I suggested a similar trade for Pacers a while back and got slammed. I had Felton going to Pacers, while also ending up with Posey, in a Paul to Knicks trade....for Ford's expirer. Everyone said Indiana would never take on Posey. Guess I was right....as usual.......

[Rowe]

Mo Pete.

Peja.

Posey.

They have already been overpaying people. And now they trade a possible star PG for a role player.

Each of those guys were good players, they went to New Orleans and started to suck. Peja was/is massively overpaid, but Mo Pete and Posey looked like very good contracts at the time for the Hornets. They deserved the money they've received beforehand, they just aren't playing like it.


Im trying to block out some of the horrible signings we made, so I'm not trying to compare.

[Se]

Easyily an A.

There was a logjam with Lee-Williams-Morrow and Ross
No Williams can start and Favors doesnt have to. Lee was nice but inconsistent unfortunately.

Ross isn't part of the equation. You should have mentioned Outlaw though.

I thought the rotation would have been:

SF: Outlaw (32) / Williams (16)
SG: Lee (28) / Morrow (20)

Now what is it:
SF: Outlaw (34) / Williams (8) / Ross (6)
SG: Williams (20) / Morrow (28)

[bagelred]

My initial reaction to trade, with caveat I can change my grades upon further analysis:

Rockets A- : Morey did it again, that c-cksucker. Gets a great young talent in Lee who's on his rookie scale and gets rid of Ariza's long term deal and saves themselves a bunch of money now and into future. It seemed to me Ariza was slightly falling out of favor on that team anyway.

Pacers B+: Gets them finally a PG upgrade who's still on his rookie scale contract. Have to eat Posey's contract, but Murphy's absence opens up time for younger guys anyway.

Nets C: I don't get this at all. Murphy doesn't even complement Lopez that well, does he? Aren't they both poor defenders? So they give away a cheap young talent...a building block in Lee to rent Murphy for the year? And pay more? And c-ckblock Favors? I'm not sure why Nets fans are happy.

Hornets C-: Collison was there one amazing trade chip....and the prize was Trevor Ariza and his four years of contract. Um......ok.......I guess the Paul drama made the Hornets management panic a little....that's what it seems to me.

[Se]

Pacers B+: Gets them finally a PG upgrade who's still on his rookie scale contract. Have to eat Posey's contract, but Murphy's absence opens up time for younger guys anyway.


Pacers are now in the playoff conversation.

[Rowe]

[QUOTE=Se

[Rowe]

[QUOTE=Se

[Se]

Outlaw isn't a swingman like the rest of those guys. You can run an athletic line up with Outlaw at the 4. Hes a 3/4 type of guy.


Ow, sounds like a mad rebounding team. Lopez and Outlaw? It doesn;t get much tougher.

[bagelred]

Easyily an A.

There was a logjam.....


Did someone say.........


:dancinLOGJAM!:dancin
:djparty

[UK-NJ]

Nets C: I don't get this at all. Murphy doesn't even complement Lopez that well, does he? Aren't they both poor defenders? So they give away a cheap young talent...a building block in Lee to rent Murphy for the year? And pay more? And c-ckblock Favors? I'm not sure why Nets fans are happy.

They're poor defenders, but Murphy's rebounding is much needed. Favors is going to take time to develop so I'm pleased to have a starting PF in place for the year. This way we can let Favors progress at his own pace & Murphy can stretch the floor for us + rebound at an effective rate. I'm also hoping to see a rejuvenated Devin Harris this year now that we've surrounded him with more reliable shooters.

As for C-Lee; I liked his workrate, but I wasn't a huge fan of his. We've replaced a solid roleplayer with a starting quality PF, whilst gaining a huge expiring contract. The fact we've opened up some more playing time for Damion James is another positive to the deal.

[nbastatus]

Houston gave away Ariza for Lee? :facepalm Nets got a great deal by sending away a decent player for a big man. Anyways, the Hornets could've gotten a better deal with other teams for Collison.

[Bano114]

Did someone say.........


:dancinLOGJAM!:dancin
:djparty

The new "I like it because we get rid of Jared Jeffries?:confusedshrug: " Considering we all ready got rid of Jared Jeffries and brought in a log jam at the SG?

[InspiredLebowski]

Larry Fuc*kin Bird. Murphy for Collison?! What a friggin steal. AND slices $4 mill off the immediate payroll.

[soadrules]

Houston gave away Ariza for Lee? :facepalm Nets got a great deal by sending away a decent player for a big man. Anyways, the Hornets could've gotten a better deal with other teams for Collison.

The rockets saved about 10 million for this trade. I'd say that's a pretty good deal considering it gives us insurance for Kevin Martin. Ariza was only good at a few things anyway. They have a better shooter in Bundinger and a better defensive wing in Battier.

[LA_Showtime]

Larry Fuc*kin Bird. Murphy for Collison?! What a friggin steal. AND slices $4 mill off the immediate payroll.

No kidding. Maybe all the retired Celtics players are late bloomers. Ainge looked like an idiot three years ago, and yet today he's considered one of the better talent evaluators in the league.

[wang4three]

Nets C: I don't get this at all. Murphy doesn't even complement Lopez that well, does he? Aren't they both poor defenders? So they give away a cheap young talent...a building block in Lee to rent Murphy for the year? And pay more? And c-ckblock Favors? I'm not sure why Nets fans are happy.


You're probably the first (and the last) person to ever call Courtney Lee a building block. He's hardly one. He's a nice role player who can make open shots and play defense. You ask him to do anything beyond that, then you're going to have trouble. I'm not in love with this trade, but since our front line is rather thin and Favors is not entirely ready, it makes sense for him to come off the bench for a year to prepare. If anything, between college and summer league, he's very foul prone, and considering the NBA is called even more tightly than in college, it's going to be a learning season for him to get used to all the rules the NBA has. If we only had him, and he were to get into foul trouble, we'd have to slide Travis to the 4. I rather take Troy Murphy at that point. Atleast he can rebound.

I'm not in love with the trade, but it is Billy King's first trade and it's not horrible so I'll give him a bye.

[InspiredLebowski]

You guys have no clue how vindicated I feel by this. I hate being selfish about it, but I've felt like the only person left to defend Bird at times. Then he pulls this out of his ass. If he uses that $4 million saved to pay O'Brien's salary and fires his ass and coaches the year himself I'll send him a fruit basket.

[hawkfan]

Terrible trade for the Hornets. They only get Ariza for Collison? Horrible.

[bagelred]

" Considering we all ready got rid of Jared Jeffries and brought in a log jam at the

Did someone say.........


:dancin:confusedshrug: LOGJAM? :confusedshrug: :dancin
:djparty

[Bano114]

Did someone say.........


:dancin:confusedshrug: LOGJAM? :confusedshrug: :dancin
:djparty

Log jam?

[bagelred]

Log jam?

Did someone say.........


:dancin:confusedshrug::hammerhead: LOGJAM!:hammerhead: :confusedshrug: :dancin
:djparty

[InspiredLebowski]

I'm having dreams about being able to steal Horford from Atlanta if they don't extend him and sending out a lineup of Collison/George/Granger/Horford/Hibbert for the next 7 or so years

[jaydacris]

a good day for pacers' fans

[jaydacris]

You guys have no clue how vindicated I feel by this. I hate being selfish about it, but I've felt like the only person left to defend Bird at times. Then he pulls this out of his ass. If he uses that $4 million saved to pay O'Brien's salary and fires his ass and coaches the year himself I'll send him a fruit basket.

you dont like coach o'brien's "shoot as many 3 pointers as you can" strategy?!?!

1896 3pt attempts for the season... wow

thats pretty incredible

[Rowe]

I'm having dreams about being able to steal Horford from Atlanta if they don't extend him and sending out a lineup of Collison/George/Granger/Horford/Hibbert for the next 7 or so years

Dont forget Lance Stephenson as 6th Man.

[QuebecBaller]

Who is gonna be the backup for Chris Paul now?

[InspiredLebowski]

you dont like coach o'brien's "shoot as many 3 pointers as you can" strategy?!?!

1896 3pt attempts for the season... wow

thats pretty incredible
That's what's so great about this trade, his crutch (Murphy) is gone. He's always preaching stretch the floor, stretch the floor. Murphy does that at an elite level to be sure. The problem is "stretching the floor" gives you no advantage if all you do is stand around the arc and launch em up and put Hibbert in the pinch post to get double teamed and turn it over since every one is still just standing at the arc. You've got to send cutters and use slashers but no, throw it out to Murphy. There's all the pieces there to actually play a somewhat traditional offense now, O'Brien better learn to do it if he wants to keep his job after the all star break.

[Miller Time]

I'm having dreams about being able to steal Horford from Atlanta if they don't extend him and sending out a lineup of Collison/George/Granger/Horford/Hibbert for the next 7 or so years


That would be a pipe dream coming true. But I am now a believer so I won't say it is impossible to get Horford. Not after trading Murphy's sorry ass for fricking Darren Collison.

[Showtime]

Each of those guys were good players, they went to New Orleans and started to suck.

My point is, they overpaid and had higher expectations. They were not as good as they were percieved to be from the vantage point of the front office, and they overpaid them thinking they were going to be difference-makers, and they were not. Those were poor decisions from day 1.


but Mo Pete and Posey looked like very good contracts at the time for the Hornets. They deserved the money they've received beforehand, they just aren't playing like it.

Peterson was nothing special, and they thought he was going to be their solution to the SG position when he wasn't doing anything in Toronto the season prior to free agency. Posey was a role player in Boston, and the team thought he could be the x-factor in making the next step to contention. They thought a defensive ROLE PLAYER was going to elevate that team? Hell no. He's the kind of guy you add when you already have a contending team to give them the edge to make and win a finals series, not to take a second round team to the finals.

And LMAO @ the *** who negged me for the Knicks comment. Sorry to burst your bubble Knick fan, whoever that might be, but your franchise has been a MESS with the Dolan/Zeke debacle. Don't blame me for telling the truth. Only blind homers wouldn't recognize the mistakes that franchise has made the past 10 years.

[Kujo]

Surprised the Rockets jettisoned Ariza after 1 season.

Anyway, the Pacers are the clear winner. They should challenge for a 7-8 seed in the playoffs now. Collison is the PG they've needed since Tinsley bottomed out.

[Faberg]

Stupid trade for New Orleans. I feel sorry for any Hornets fans. Ya'll need new management quickly!

Now if Chris Paul leaves, they're really ****ed. They better have some more moves in order or else.

[Nets fan 93]

Did someone say.........


:dancinLOGJAM!:dancin
:djparty
Yes. Too many Sg's. T-Will can now be a starter here. Lee wasnt as good as I thought he could be.

[InspiredLebowski]

I used to really like Posey (circa Miami) and now he's just a contract, crazy how those things happen. I haven't seen him in awhile, is he literally done? Can he still at least play a solid defensive 3?

Oh, and be prepared for the Josh McRoberts show. McBob's coming for your rim.

[RajonKGcelts]

Indy would be nasty with Collison, and thats a good deal for them.

[jbot]

wait, so indy gives up murphy for collison and posey? Wow, thats a good upgrade there for them. I gotta think there are some missing pieces to this trade.
:rockon: me happy w/ this here trade.

[BigTicket]

Great deal for the Pacers.

Decent deal for the Nets.

Bad deal for the Rockets and Hornets.

[bagelred]

Indiana fans must be DEVASTATED with this trade.


I mean, Indiana traded one, uh.....BLANK guy for two....um......BLANK guys. Indiana population feeling just a bit uneasy after the trade. :lol

[Meticode]

Not happening.

Since when did people begin believing everything they read on the internet?

oh yeah, ever since al gore created the internet.lol
ESPN reported it on TV too.

[InspiredLebowski]

Indiana fans must be DEVASTATED with this trade.


I mean, Indiana traded one, uh.....BLANK guy for two....um......BLANK guys. Indiana population feeling just a bit uneasy after the trade. :lol
This was never funny and always ignorant

[1~Gibson~1]

This trade is good for everyone but Houston. Why give up Ariza for Lee?
they were probably just looking for cap relief. Houston gave Ariza alot of money and Ariza underperformed, thus the Rockets wanted to get rid of him and traded him for a young player with an expiring contract.

[1~Gibson~1]

Who is gonna be the backup for Chris Paul now?
CP3 will likely receive heavy minutes (about 40 per game). and with only 8 minutes to give away to the backup PG (unless they go small with two PGs) they could easily either move Devin Brown to PG (he's played both positions before) or sign a vet/young player for the minimum.

[mattevans11]

Ariza is a pretty good player to take a bunch of alley-oops from CP.

They should be able to get more for Collison, but other teams know the Hornets have that logjam that makes him expendable, which is why they will always be lowballed for him.


Can he alley oop it from three, cause last year that was where he spent most of his time

[mattevans11]

who else would u consider big homie. (i mean excluding rose,cp3,dwill)
i kno they young but they all stars already who would u take over collison thts come out in last 3 drafts?


tyreke, curry or jennings???????? i would take all three

[InspiredLebowski]

Murphy's on vacation in Hawaii, must be nice chilling on the beach and getting a call from your agent saying you're going to your hometown team. For all the problems I have with Murphy as a player and how the team used him he's a good dude and I definitely wish him well.

[InspiredLebowski]

Indy's going to buyout Posey, apparently teams like Miami and Boston are interested in him (as a FA)

[RoseCity07]

NO is desperate to keep Chris Paul. If they don't improve, he is going to ask to be traded. I hope this doesn't work out and Portland throws out a good ofer for CP3.

[mattevans11]

I like the trade for all teams but NO....... i thought they could get more for collison than ariza.

but to all of you posters that are this naive to say that they took the first deal... you are crazy.....im pretty sure they called EVERY team in the league to se what they would offer. if you think calls like this dont havppen daily, you are not using that brain of yours.

I am guessing that the league thought collison was a product of running a system that was vacated by a SUPERSTAR. not to say that collison will not be solid, but it is much easier to fill in for a fallin soldier than to lead your own army..... it will be interesting to say the least.

NJ got an expirer for next to nothing. this clears up a mess (williams will be moved to the 2) while giving favors a little wieght off his shoulders to perform. If this trade backfires, what did it cost? one year of mediocrity? They were not going to be good this year anyway, and maybe this one year rental can work out for them.

Indy for sure got better, but I am still waiting to hear who they play at PF, is it going to be hansbourough? if so, i hope he is ready.

NO should have been able to get a better player than ariza. I like him as a player, but not the fit for the rockets. Rockets have too many players at his position that could end up being solid role players. Ariza struggled to get his identity known last year. He started off the first week hot and then thought he was the #1 option fromn there on out.

I like getting lee, but I like how morey has set up the team to get better in years to come by getting out of the contract that ariza has. MOREY does it AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[D-Rose]

Indy's going to buyout Posey, apparently teams like Miami and Boston are interested in him (as a FA)
Link?

Why buy him out when he has 2 years left? :confusedshrug: Is he really that bad nowadays?

[InspiredLebowski]

Link?

Why buy him out when he has 2 years left? :confusedshrug: Is he really that bad nowadays?
No link, heard it on local radio. I guess I can link the podcast once they have it up. Buy him out because there's already Jones/George/Stephenson/Granger/Dunleavy/Rush on the wings and a buyout saves a small amount of money.

[wang4three]

Murphy's on vacation in Hawaii, must be nice chilling on the beach and getting a call from your agent saying you're going to your hometown team. For all the problems I have with Murphy as a player and how the team used him he's a good dude and I definitely wish him well.

Lucky bastard.

[RajonKGcelts]

Indy's going to buyout Posey, apparently teams like Miami and Boston are interested in him (as a FA)


I have no idea what we could give him but i'd like to see posey back with the Celts

[Dasher]

Ah The Courtney Lee Era is finally over. If Knight keeps making moves like this I may start caring about The Nets again.

[brantonli]

Nice, at last a backup SG. Haven't had one of those since Bob Sura (EDIT: lol completely forgot about Wafer and Taylor to an extent). The Rockets must be high on Budinger too, an SF combo of Battier/Budinger, that will be very interesting.

[BallsOut]

So let me get this straight.

NO trades away Darren Collison (a future 20/10 PG) and James Posey's remaining 2 years contract for Trevor Ariza's 4 year contract.

Somebody fire this Otis Smith dude. Horrible trade. I wonder who they're going to trade Chris Paul for next. Wilson Chandler and Eddy Curry? :facepalm

[G-train]

Why didn't the Nets keep Jianlian who will be better than Murphy this season and in the future, then they can keep Lee as well?

[QuebecBaller]

So let me get this straight.

NO trades away Darren Collison (a future 20/10 PG) and James Posey's remaining 2 years contract for Trevor Ariza's 4 year contract.

Somebody fire this Otis Smith dude. Horrible trade. I wonder who they're going to trade Chris Paul for next. Wilson Chandler and Eddy Curry? :facepalm

Maybe Peja for Chandler and Curry :rockon:

Okafor/Curry/Gray
West/Songaila/Brackins
Ariza/Chandler/Pondexter
Thornton/Bellineli
Paul/???

[QuebecBaller]

It's gonna be weird to see Murphy without Dunleavy jr :oldlol:

[ihatetimthomas]

Wow. I am shocked that Larry Bird was able to pull this one off. Indy hasnt pulled off any decent deal in year and this is a great one. One of the most pressing needs for Indy is the pg situation, and Collison is a nice young pg. Great player for the Pacers. Collison is a very hard working and high IQ player. Watched him thoughout his UCLA days and I am glad he is playing well.

Looks like a little bit of a desperation move for the Hornets. But its tough trading a prospect on a rookie contract and getting value for him. Could have done a little better maybe, but expect Ariza to flourish with Paul feeding him buckets and drawing doubles to him. this is not going to fix the problem the Hornets have, but he will be a solid addition.

Obv this is a complete salary dump by the Rockets. But they have Battier at the 3, which probably is a better fit with all the scorers they have.

Nets get cap relief next season and can make a splash in the FA market next season. They also get a veteran big man with range. Not a bad deal.

Deal was decent for all parties, but I think the Hornets are still hurting. Ariza will not be enough to appease Paul. Indy is the clear winner, acquiring one of the upcoming pgs. For once, something good has happened to them.

[widowmaker]

NO did get better today. Maybe they could have gotten better value for Collison, but Ariza comes in being the 3rd scoring option (behind West) maybe 4th (behind Thorton). I just would have liked to see them upgrade their bigs.

[Showtime]

NO did get better today. Maybe they could have gotten better value for Collison, but Ariza comes in being the 3rd scoring option (behind West) maybe 4th (behind Thorton). I just would have liked to see them upgrade their bigs.
This was an incredibly short-sighted move which just sets the table for massive failure in two years. The team won't be contending, and Paul will leave, and the team will have already given away their future all star 20/10 PG and be ready to dump Ariza's deal.

[Dasher]

This was an incredibly short-sighted move which just sets the table for massive failure in two years. The team won't be contending, and Paul will leave, and the team will have already given away their future all star 20/10 PG and be ready to dump Ariza's deal.Oh please. The Hornets will be able to find another point guard at Collison's level. They got decent value for a guy who would not supplant the starter on the majority of The NBA's teams. Trevor solidifies a position that has been an issue for the for years and he is paid at a decent clip.

[G-train]

Oh please. The Hornets will be able to find another point guard at Collison's level. They got decent value for a guy who would not supplant the starter on the majority of The NBA's teams. Trevor solidifies a position that has been an issue for the for years and he is paid at a decent clip.

Collison is gonna average 16/8 and Ariza is the 87th most efficient player in the league, shoots 2/6 treys per game and sub 40% FG.

Good defender, but good defenders are easier to come by than 16/8 PG's.

[QuebecBaller]

Oh please. The Hornets will be able to find another point guard at Collison's level. They got decent value for a guy who would not supplant the starter on the majority of The NBA's teams. Trevor solidifies a position that has been an issue for the for years and he is paid at a decent clip.

TJ Ford might be available real soon

[InspiredLebowski]

NO should go out and sign Earl Watson for the vet's minimum

[KB2009Champ]

ariza has got to feel like a real dummy right now.

all that sheeeet the rockets promised him out the window.

smh.

fire your damn agent

[Simple Jack]

Why Murphy if you have Favors?

[Showtime]

Oh please. The Hornets will be able to find another point guard at Collison's level.

Collison as a starter last year (37 games):

19 PPG, 9 AST, 3.5 REB

How many PG's were that close to being 20/10 players in the entire league last season from the point position?

Deron, Paul, and Nash put up 16.5 PPG so I wouldn't say he's back in form to being a 20 PPG player.

That's it. And that was as a rookie. So don't tell me that players of his calibre are a dime a dozen. He's a rookie that has incredible potential because he can distribute and score. He's shown the ability to produce when put into the starting role, and he can only improve. In two years time, Collison will be entering the beginning of his prime, and the hornets will be desperate for a PG who can put up 20/10 every night.


They got decent value for a guy who would not supplant the starter on the majority of The NBA's teams. Trevor solidifies a position that has been an issue for the for years and he is paid at a decent clip.
Again, it's short-sighted. What they did was trade a guy who was a reserve player NOW (because he was a rookie and playing behind a top PG in the league, not because he lacked talent), for a CAREER ROLE PLAYER to patch a weak position on the team. That's what they did. They gave away a future all-star to improve the wing in the extreme short term.

And why was that position so weak to begin with? Peterson, Peja, Posey, Mason. They kept trying to get players to improve that position, but they were so desperate that they overpaid and overrated the talent and made bad moves in the process. This is another move that will put them in a bad position later on, because Ariza is NOT the kind of talent that elevates teams. He's a role player that can fill some gaps in established teams. And the hornets gave away talent to package a bad contract for a short-term patch that WILL cost them later on down the road.

[InspiredLebowski]

Why Murphy if you have Favors?
Because he's on a one year deal and Favors is nowhere near ready. The better question is why sign Sean May, obviously the discussions for this trade came out of nowhere. At least as far as Jersey being involved anyway.

[Captain Kirk]

ariza has got to feel like a real dummy right now.

all that sheeeet the rockets promised him out the window.

smh.

fire your damn agent


Remember when he signed with Houston and all the Laker haters were saying how he would become a star with the Rockets :roll:

[Simple Jack]

Because he's on a one year deal and Favors is nowhere near ready. The better question is why sign Sean May, obviously the discussions for this trade came out of nowhere. At least as far as Jersey being involved anyway.

Do the Nets really think they are competing right now for a title? If not, that's irrelevant.

[dd24]

This was an incredibly short-sighted move which just sets the table for massive failure in two years. The team won't be contending, and Paul will leave, and the team will have already given away their future all star 20/10 PG and be ready to dump Ariza's deal.

So are you saying if NO didn't make the trade they would be contending in 2 years? Their a ways off and wouldn't have been contending anyway. Ariza will be good for them. They needed to trade Collison. They shouldn't be worried about a reserve PG. They need to worry about their starting 5 first.

[flipogb]

NO's starting 5 got better , but they are taking a big risk in possibly having no good PG at all in the future and I think they could have done better than Ariza

[B-Easy8]

Im really liking Indiana now if they can try to package T.J, Dunleavy and Posey for a PF who can split minutes with crazy T I think their set.

Collison/Stephenson/Price
George/Rush/Stephenson
Granger/Jones
Crazy T/acquired PF
Hibbert/McBob

[tpols]

Do the Nets really think they are competing right now for a title? If not, that's irrelevant.
No it's not. Favors is very raw right now and throwing him out there more than he can handle will be putting way too much pressure on him and may even diminish his confidence. We have to work him in. He'll still get plenty of time this year as it is and remember the guy is only 19 years old.

[Simple Jack]

No it's not. Favors is very raw right now and throwing him out there more than he can handle will be putting way too much pressure on him and may even diminish his confidence. We have to work him in. He'll still get plenty of time this year as it is and remember the guy is only 19 years old.

All rookies get severely limited minutes? There are plenty of players who are "raw" and get time to shine. Amare came out of HS and played 31 minutes his first year. This literally gives Favors no legitimate playing time.

[Showtime]

So are you saying if NO didn't make the trade they would be contending in 2 years?

No, I'm saying that at least when Paul leaves eventually, they will already have a quality PG who has all-star talent that they can go from there, whereas now they will have absolutely nothing unless they trade Paul in his last year and hope to get something in return.

It's the difference between having something to build on, and having nothing. As it is, this team just traded a future all star for a role player, and they will be in Cleveland's situation in 3 years: having zero direction, no franchise player, and no hope.

[hoopla604]

Tested this out in the trade machine...

(Four way Trade: DET, IND, GSW & CLE)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29rhtt9

Here is why it makes sense for the three teams:

Cleveland - they are going no where fast and need to start re-building as soon as possible. There three biggest contracts that extend beyond this year are Jamison, Mo and Varejao. You get rid of all of them in this deal, get Ellis as a star that will put people in seats for the next few years to build around along with sessions in the back court and a ton of cap space to work with at the end of the year.

Detroit - seems to make the least sense initially, but let me explain. They need to move beyond the old team (Tay and Rip are the hold outs). They also need to have Austin Day develop give Gordon more playing time and hope that Munroe is their PF of the future. With that said what they really need is a real point and a solid center. This gives them both (Biedrins and Mo) along with a potential back up starter at SF if George develops faster than Day.

Indy - basically the team continues making a splash this summer. They have Collision as a solid point, they have SF secured with Granger. Now they get a "Reggie-like" SG in Rip Hamilton who is a solid scoring options and provides veteran playoff experience. They also fill the whole at PF with Jamison which is much better than the options they have right now. The weakness here is that they might need more of a banger at the PF but they will at least have Varejao coming off the bench. This might put indy in even better position for the future. They would have nice mix of young talent and vets with playoff experience giving them a chance to actually do some damage in the playoffs.

Golden State - Biedrins wants out and they want to move Ellis. The two contracts tie up 20 mil in cap space. They get two contracts that expire next year (also making them players in free agency in the next few years - with Curry as the corner stone). They get a plug at the centre position which they need with Biedrins gone but avoid getting a long term contract of all the over paid centers out there. And they get to see how Tay fits in. A vet on the roster that is quite young that also provides defence, runs the floor and adds some size to the perimeter. They don't get a lot back here so may be this might need to be sweetened up a but for Golden State with a draft pick or two.

[JustinJDW]

Wow, Indiana raped on this deal. They get the PG they always wanted in Collison and also get a good 3-point shooter who can also defend with Posey, and they just have to give up Murphy, which doesn't even hurt them much because they have Hansbrough ready to start and take his spot.

Great move by the Indiana front office. :applause:

[bagelred]

You know, its interesting. We all think NO should have done better for Collison but if you think about it, NO ran into a problem. The problem is this is the Golden Age of Point Guards. There's just too many good ones around.

Think about it. How many teams out there are truly desperate for a good starting PG? If you go through the list, not many.

I found two. Indiana and Charlotte. The Heat too, but they don't even need a PG. Maybe Atlanta if you don't like Bibby, but that's about it.

Everyone else has either a great PG or at least a "pretty good" one. How many teams were going to give up alot to get Collison? I think that actually hurt NO in their chances of landing someone better than Ariza. Too many good PG's floating around.


But one thing is clear. New Orleans just went "all in" on Chris Paul. Chances of him being traded are slim to none now.

[InspiredLebowski]

You know, its interesting. We all think NO should have done better for Collison but if you think about it, NO ran into a problem. The problem is this is the Golden Age of Point Guards. There's just too many good ones around.

Think about it. How many teams out there are truly desperate for a good starting PG? If you go through the list, not many.

I found two. Indiana and Charlotte. The Heat too, but they don't even need a PG. Maybe Atlanta if you don't like Bibby, but that's about it.

Everyone else has either a great PG or at least a "pretty good" one. How many teams were going to give up alot to get Collison? I think that actually hurt NO in their chances of landing someone better than Ariza. Too many good PG's floating around.


But one thing is clear. New Orleans just went "all in" on Chris Paul. Chances of him being traded are slim to none now.
I'm not complaining since Indy obviously did well, but if the current case is that you can't get good enough value for Collison, then you wait. They've got Paul for two more years, there's no need to rush into something.

[bagelred]

I'm not complaining since Indy obviously did well, but if the current case is that you can't get good enough value for Collison, then you wait. They've got Paul for two more years, there's no need to rush into something.

I mean, I agree to an extent, but they are also trying to win games. Having Collison sit on the bench doesn't help you win games and doesn't make Paul any happier.

Ariza's a good player, but its not the splash you want to keep Paul around.

[dd24]

All rookies get severely limited minutes? There are plenty of players who are "raw" and get time to shine. Amare came out of HS and played 31 minutes his first year. This literally gives Favors no legitimate playing time.

I don't think it cuts his minutes too much. He wasn't going to play a ton this year.

[dd24]

No, I'm saying that at least when Paul leaves eventually, they will already have a quality PG who has all-star talent that they can go from there, whereas now they will have absolutely nothing unless they trade Paul in his last year and hope to get something in return.

It's the difference between having something to build on, and having nothing. As it is, this team just traded a future all star for a role player, and they will be in Cleveland's situation in 3 years: having zero direction, no franchise player, and no hope.

I think keeping Collison around would have made Paul want to leave more. At least now there's a chance to keep Paul around. He wouldn't have stayed for sure with another PG of Collison's caliber around.

[InspiredLebowski]

I mean, I agree to an extent, but they are also trying to win games. Having Collison sit on the bench doesn't help you win games and doesn't make Paul any happier.

Ariza's a good player, but its not the splash you want to keep Paul around.
And I don't think Ariza does much to win many more games either. Hell from the looks of it they could've waited a year and gotten him for Posey straight up potentially then still had control of Collison. I honestly don't think anything short of winning a championship is keeping Paul in NO though, and that's a damn shame.

But hell for all I know it could easily be a case of perception vs reality in regards to DC's value.

[dd24]

I'm a bit confused as to how people think NO could have got so much more for Collison. He's a very good young talent, don't get me wrong. The thing is it isn't like NO was looking to add a ton of salary. Who could they have traded for that makes the same money as Ariza that is so much better? The guy was good enough to start and make a major contribution to a team that won a championship. Now he's not good enough for a team that finished last in their division last season??? He made some huge plays for the Lakers in the finals that helped them win games. I really think people are underestimating him a bit. Give him a chance NO fans. I'm sure you'll like his game.

[Nastradamus]

indy - Gets their PG and cap relief this year in exchange for Murphy(probably lost their shot at the playoffs if they had one) and paying Posey next year. Great deal.

NJ - They pay a lot of money, but they were willing in order to add talent. Lee was going to get squeezed by Morrow and T.Williams at SG. Murphy and Lopez with Favors off the bench(even a raw Favors) is a very nice frontcourt. Win.

NO - Collison was stuck behind their best player and didn't pair well with him. They have needed a SF who can both shoot and finish for a long time and Ariza is an awesome pairing with Paul. He'll make him look better than he is. Posey out of town is nice as well. Win.

Houston - Gets the very cheap Lee for the more expensive Ariza, who was duplicated by JEffries and BAttier for the most part. Lee is Kevin Martin insurance if he gets hurt. Budinger will play more SF now, as they need shooting there. Saved huge tax bill after paying Scola,Lowry and Miller and acquiring Martin and Jeffries last year. Win.

Very smart deal for all 4 teams, no lose for most of them as much of it was about money.

[Jasper]

agree with above poster.

However Ariza , might be stuck holding the fort down , when CP3 departs without looking back.
Ariza is a cool player.. and quite frankly shocked he got moved.

Larry Bird appears to have players in mind ... for his makeover... so he must have a target list somewhere.
AK47 on that list ?

[G-train]

NO - Collison was stuck behind their best player and didn't pair well with him. They have needed a SF who can both shoot and finish for a long time and Ariza is an awesome pairing with Paul. He'll make him look better than he is. Posey out of town is nice as well. Win.


Ariza can't shoot. He is a role player.

They should have held on to Collison till a better offer came.

They could have packaged him with Peja (to make up salary) for a great player.

[Showtime]

I'm a bit confused as to how people think NO could have got so much more for Collison. He's a very good young talent, don't get me wrong. The thing is it isn't like NO was looking to add a ton of salary. Who could they have traded for that makes the same money as Ariza that is so much better?

You are under the assumption that any trade is a good one. They didn't have to make this deal. They didn't have to trade Collison at all.


The guy was good enough to start and make a major contribution to a team that won a championship. Now he's not good enough for a team that finished last in their division last season???

Fisher is good enough to start and make a contribution. But nobody here would trade Steph Curry for him now would they? It's not about what he can do, it's about what NOLA gave up and what ultimately it accomplished: which was nothing. Ariza isn't going to make them a contender, so acquiring him has done nothing but throw away their future after Paul leaves.


He made some huge plays for the Lakers in the finals that helped them win games. I really think people are underestimating him a bit. Give him a chance NO fans. I'm sure you'll like his game.
He's a role player and that's all he'll ever be. That's great depending on the circumstances of the team and how he was acquired. But the Hornets don't need a role player, they need another legit star. Ariza would be great if they were a team struggling to close out a conference finals, not struggling to get into the playoffs. Now isn't the time to trade future all stars for patch up role players.

[InspiredLebowski]

Larry Bird appears to have players in mind ... for his makeover... so he must have a target list somewhere.
AK47 on that list ?
I don't see any reason to think he has some kind of list of players he wants. Sure every exec looks around the league and says "damn, love to have that guy," but that's not the same as call team X and see what they want. He's certainly got a type of player he wants that makes complete sense for a team such as Indy, young, fairly proven, and obviously most important fills one of the most glaring holes in the NBA. Next on the list is a quick, agile, capable switch defender with good/great rebounding at the 4 spot. No specific names, just a guy who fits the criteria.

Anyway, I just can't believe Bird swung this thing. Indy could've thrown in a top 10 protected first and no one would've batted an eye.

[Nastradamus]

Ariza can't shoot. He is a role player.

They should have held on to Collison till a better offer came.

They could have packaged him with Peja (to make up salary) for a great player.

Ariza did a great job hitting open 3s in LA and that will be his role in NO, unlike Houston. He was asked to be an offensive focal point at times last year and that's why his percentage is down. He was shooting his J's with a defender or 2 in his face. He'll pair great with Paul, just watch. That's a decent starting 5 now with West,Okafor,Thornton,Ariza and of course Paul. Gotta improve the bench though, its possibly leauge worst. Seriously, I dare you to name a worse one. Belinelli,Peja,Songalia,Gray,Brackins,Pondexter. DAMN!

[Nastradamus]

He's a role player and that's all he'll ever be. That's great depending on the circumstances of the team and how he was acquired. But the Hornets don't need a role player, they need another legit star. Ariza would be great if they were a team struggling to close out a conference finals, not struggling to get into the playoffs. Now isn't the time to trade future all stars for patch up role players.

You completely miss the point. New Orleans had 2 choices. Do as much in the next 2 years as possible to improve the team and make it a contender that Paul wants to stay with, that's option A. Option B, deal Paul for a haul of cap space and young players/draft picks and rebuild with Collison as the PG. If their plan is to keep Paul, then Collison is a luxury and their best trade asset. They saved over 1 million dollars on the deal and along with the Belinelli/Wright deal that gives them flexibility to sign rookies and fill out the roster with vet min players. They refuse to pay the tax, so you have to operate within that, like it or not. They can sign a backup PG like Watson or Alston to replace Collison for the short term. I think they see Ariza as a very capable starter(which Posey was far from) who will be in his prime for the length of the deal and who will play very well with Paul. He runs the floor, hits open 3s, rebounds and defends. I think he can be Marion-lite playing with a PG like Paul. They have lacked perimeter athleticism for a long time now. They now have a well rounded starting 5 and we'll have to see how creative Demps can be in filling out the bench.

[ronnymac]

This says 3 things for us.

1 it is a salary dump
2 this means Budinger will now get the majority of the minutes behind Battier.
3 The coaching staff is not convinced Taylor is ready to be the backup SG just yet and Lee will play behind KM


Overall i like it. Budinger will see more minutes nown and Lee is the perfect backup for KM.


Lowry
Lee
Battier
Scola
Hayes/Yao

lineup will be fantastic as a defensive lineup.

[Nets fan 93]

Because he's on a one year deal and Favors is nowhere near ready. The better question is why sign Sean May, obviously the discussions for this trade came out of nowhere. At least as far as Jersey being involved anyway.
IDK about May either. but is a non-garuanteed contract so whatever.

[catzhernandez]

I love you Larry Bird!!!


I've never been this happy after a trade. Ever. Collison was THE guy I wanted this summer. THE guy. This team is damn near complete. Once we offer the max to Horford next summer, it's over with. We will be a playoff team every year. My 44 win projection for ext season looks spot on. Thank you lord for showing the Pacers some love. YES!!!!!!

[InspiredLebowski]

catz, I've been waiting.

High fives all around in west central Indiana.

[catzhernandez]

catz, I've been waiting.

High fives all around in west central Indiana.
Was literally jumping for joy for a good 10-20 minutes when I heard the news, and have been giggly for the last four hours. Began drinking some flavored vodka shortly after just to celebrate the day we turned this boat around. My god I'm happy. High fives indeed bro, let's catch a game together next season. Wooooooo!!!!!!

[shizzouts]

http://blackmanx.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/lebron-james.jpg

most importantly, CP3 stays in New Orleans!

[InspiredLebowski]

Was literally jumping for joy for a good 10-20 minutes when I heard the news, and have been giggly for the last four hours. Began drinking some flavored vodka shortly after just to celebrate the day we turned this boat around. My god I'm happy. High fives indeed bro, let's catch a game together next season. Wooooooo!!!!!!
It's a date my man. I was driving around doing errands today with this big shit eating grin on my face and catching weird looks and I just wanted to lash out and say "Don't you understand? Bird just turned Troy f*ckin Murphy into our starting point for the next decade, and that's all he gave up!" We've still got monster expirers/cap space to bring in a great young 4 to make the thing complete. I'm not kidding, we can net Horford somehow I'm shooting off those big ass thousand dollar fireworks.

[LA_Showtime]

Don't take this the wrong way Pacers fans...

It's definitely humbling to hear you guys jump with joy at the thought of being a regular playoff contender.

[InspiredLebowski]

Don't take this the wrong way Pacers fans...

It's definitely humbling to hear you guys jump with joy at the thought of being a regular playoff contender. It's not just being a playoff team, it's being a team full of promising young prospects about to walk into a season with tons of expiring deals and/or cap space to turn into another major piece. It's not "Hey, we got DC, now we can top out at an ECF or two," it's "we're filling holes with young studs and who knows the limit?" I don't take it the wrong way, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way either. It must be damn nice being a fan of a franchise who's success is very much predicated on strictly location. That's no one's fault and no one should apologize for it, anything like that, just a nice perk that takes no doing of the franchise. I know a lot of Laker fans will be up in arms when I say it, but the realistic ones understand the truth, put Kupchak in Indy and Bird in LA (looking past his Boston and Indiana history) and they both most likely have completely different legacies. I for one am quite proud of our diehard fanbase and the history of our (NBA) ringless franchise.

[G-train]

Who thinks Grangers Fantasy value increases or decreases with this?

[dd24]

You are under the assumption that any trade is a good one. They didn't have to make this deal. They didn't have to trade Collison at all.

Not at all. I'm saying Ariza is a good ball player and a definite upgrade at that position from what you had. They didn't have to trade Collison but you aren't going to win with two PG's on the floor. Why have a guy on the bench who is talented before you even have a solid starting 5?


Fisher is good enough to start and make a contribution. But nobody here would trade Steph Curry for him now would they? It's not about what he can do, it's about what NOLA gave up and what ultimately it accomplished: which was nothing. Ariza isn't going to make them a contender, so acquiring him has done nothing but throw away their future after Paul leaves.

No single player would make them a contender. That's why you need to get some solid pieces and they did end up doing that. Now you're assuming Paul will leave. You must have forgot the CBA is up after this season. Rumors have it the owners don't want to be in another 2010 free agency position like they were this year and they want to have more incentives to keep their stars.


He's a role player and that's all he'll ever be. That's great depending on the circumstances of the team and how he was acquired. But the Hornets don't need a role player, they need another legit star. Ariza would be great if they were a team struggling to close out a conference finals, not struggling to get into the playoffs. Now isn't the time to trade future all stars for patch up role players.

He's more than a patch up role player. The funny thing is this is a team sport. The Hornets would have needed more pieces regardless. You make it sound like you can trade a guy with a rookie contract for Lebron James. You also make it sound like the Hornets wanted to add payroll. They did not. They have a budget to work with. I don't even think that team made money last year, yet you seem to think they can trade a guy in his second year for a seasoned player in their prime making 15 million per year. Like I asked previously, who was the better player NO was going to get and be realistic about it. There isn't a lot available now. Ariza is a good player at a good price.

[dd24]

Who thinks Grangers Fantasy value increases or decreases with this?

I don't think it will affect his numbers. He just needs to be healthy this season.

[chains5000]

No, I'm saying that at least when Paul leaves eventually, they will already have a quality PG who has all-star talent that they can go from there, whereas now they will have absolutely nothing unless they trade Paul in his last year and hope to get something in return.

It's the difference between having something to build on, and having nothing. As it is, this team just traded a future all star for a role player, and they will be in Cleveland's situation in 3 years: having zero direction, no franchise player, and no hope.
A little pessimistic, don't you think?

[Lebron23]

Pacers would make the playoffs this season. Darren Collison averaged almost 20 ppg, and 8 apg when CP3 was out with an injury.

[dbugz]

What's with C. Lee that the Houston will give up Ariza just like that? Ariza is a better over all player than C. Lee straight up. They also have Kevin Martin on the 2 spot, I really don't get it. Is he an expirer or something like that? :confusedshrug: The Houston can get more better deal trading Ariza and will get better player in return that would fit on the Rockets' system.

Again C. Lee? :confusedshrug:

[Sweens]

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab250/Zac_Sweeney/NBA%20Photoshops/LAKERS_TREVOR_ARIZA_3_1Acrowdsmallw.jpg

[chains5000]

What's with C. Lee that the Houston will give up Ariza just like that? Ariza is a better over all player than C. Lee straight up. They also have Kevin Martin on the 2 spot, I really don't get it. Is he an expirer or something like that? :confusedshrug: The Houston can get more better deal trading Ariza and will get better player in return that would fit on the Rockets' system.

Again C. Lee? :confusedshrug:
Check both player's contracts.

[mattevans11]

What's with C. Lee that the Houston will give up Ariza just like that? Ariza is a better over all player than C. Lee straight up. They also have Kevin Martin on the 2 spot, I really don't get it. Is he an expirer or something like that? :confusedshrug: The Houston can get more better deal trading Ariza and will get better player in return that would fit on the Rockets' system.

Again C. Lee? :confusedshrug:


ariza makes a tad more my friend. plus they are making room for budz to play more.

why is everyone assuming the hornets made this deal without talking to other teams? I will assume that they talked to EVERY team and see what they could get..... please stop with this they took their first offer crap...

[brantonli]

What's with C. Lee that the Houston will give up Ariza just like that? Ariza is a better over all player than C. Lee straight up. They also have Kevin Martin on the 2 spot, I really don't get it. Is he an expirer or something like that? :confusedshrug: The Houston can get more better deal trading Ariza and will get better player in return that would fit on the Rockets' system.

Again C. Lee? :confusedshrug:

One reason is the contract. Another is that Morey has been high on Lee since the 08 draft. Here's a link for reasons why the Rockets got him:

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/daryl_morey_discusses_the_cour_2010_08_11.html

[dbugz]

One reason is the contract. Another is that Morey has been high on Lee since the 08 draft. Here's a link for reasons why the Rockets got him:

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/daryl_morey_discusses_the_cour_2010_08_11.html


Thanks for clearing that out :pimp:

[InspiredLebowski]

I said it before, but I'll say it again. Frontcourt minutes are wide open, training camp competition for the starting 4 man as the roster stands.

MCBOB'S COMIN FOR YOUR RIMS!
http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/thumbnailfull/josh-mcroberts-2009-10-2-22-10-0.jpg

[catzhernandez]

It's a date my man. I was driving around doing errands today with this big shit eating grin on my face and catching weird looks and I just wanted to lash out and say "Don't you understand? Bird just turned Troy f*ckin Murphy into our starting point for the next decade, and that's all he gave up!" We've still got monster expirers/cap space to bring in a great young 4 to make the thing complete. I'm not kidding, we can net Horford somehow I'm shooting off those big ass thousand dollar fireworks.
Man oh man, I can't wait for November. :)

THEN, I can't wait for next summer. Life is good right now.

And sweet, I just got a date. :cheers:

[catzhernandez]

I said it before, but I'll say it again. Frontcourt minutes are wide open, training camp competition for the starting 4 man as the roster stands.

MCBOB'S COMIN FOR YOUR RIMS!
http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/thumbnailfull/josh-mcroberts-2009-10-2-22-10-0.jpg
Lol. McBob loving never gets old.

[InspiredLebowski]

Lol. McBob loving never gets old.
Except I kind of mean it this time. Hansbrough's got a kooky head. That leaves THE MCBOB! I'm seriously not joking, he's a decent 4th big and long as JOB doesn't ruin him by trying to force him to jack up stupid threes instead of ATTACK THE RIM BECAUSE IT BELONGS TO MCBOB! Seriously, tell me the guy's not fun to watch.

[chains5000]

Except I kind of mean it this time. Hansbrough's got a kooky head. That leaves THE MCBOB! I'm seriously not joking, he's a decent 4th big and long as JOB doesn't ruin him by trying to force him to jack up stupid threes instead of ATTACK THE RIM BECAUSE IT BELONGS TO MCBOB! Seriously, tell me the guy's not fun to watch.

What's your opinion on Jim O'Brien? You think he's a good coach for a young team?

[catzhernandez]

Except I kind of mean it this time. Hansbrough's got a kooky head. That leaves THE MCBOB! I'm seriously not joking, he's a decent 4th big and long as JOB doesn't ruin him by trying to force him to jack up stupid threes instead of ATTACK THE RIM BECAUSE IT BELONGS TO MCBOB! Seriously, tell me the guy's not fun to watch.
Amen bro, McBob was ridic ending last season. I fully expect 11/6 from him at the least this season. He and Foster should have a good season.

[InspiredLebowski]

What's your opinion on Jim O'Brien? You think he's a good coach for a young team?
F*ck no. I think he's among the worst three coaches in the league. My boy McBob's never shown range outside of....well outside of about 8 feet (but he hammers that shit home!), but he "insists" on him being a three point shooter. Remember McBob chucking 3s in Summer League? All JOB. "Stretch the floor!" he says. Yeah, stretch in when you have Dwight or a healthy Yao. Not Roy Hibbert. And not when your philosophy of "stretching the floor" means just camping out on the arc and launching bombs instead of taking advantage of your above average (for a big) passers in Hibbert and McBob and putting them in the high post and cutting guys like Dahntay Jones and Granger off off ball screens. Nah, just let em camp out. The dude is a moron, thankfully there's only a year of him left then we've got all the young guys currently rostered to go with whomever we trade for/sign with the cap space.

[Showtime]

A little pessimistic, don't you think?
Just because reality may be unpleasant doesn't make it pessimistic. The reality is that Paul will only stay if they are contending for a championship. The reality is that isn't going to happen in 1 1/2 seasons.


Not at all. I'm saying Ariza is a good ball player and a definite upgrade at that position from what you had. They didn't have to trade Collison but you aren't going to win with two PG's on the floor. Why have a guy on the bench who is talented before you even have a solid starting 5?

Your comment was about getting a better deal for Collison, which I tried to respond by making the point that there didn't have to be a deal in the first place. Yes, Ariza is an upgrade, but not so much of an upgrade that will accomplish anything, let alone merit the loss of a future all-star calibre guard. This is about what is best for the franchise, and they made a mistake.



No single player would make them a contender.

This goes along with my point: they weren't going to get that player who might make them contenders, which is their goal to keep Paul there, so in essence they didn't do anything to achieve their ultimate objective. Not only that, but they gave away their future in the process. Therefore, it's a failure. So my point all along is that if that is the goal, then don't make these kinds of stupid moves unless it helps you reach that goal. This didn't.


That's why you need to get some solid pieces and they did end up doing that. Now you're assuming Paul will leave. You must have forgot the CBA is up after this season. Rumors have it the owners don't want to be in another 2010 free agency position like they were this year and they want to have more incentives to keep their stars.

That's all well and good, but even if a new CBA is reached, and current contracts grandfathered in, there is nothing in place that will tell us Paul wouldn't have the option to leave. I know some owners want something similar to a franchise tag in the NFL, but there is a difference in throwing around ideas and what will actually get done. And there's no point in keeping around a disgruntled player who wants out. The fact is, Paul has said he wants to play for a winner, and he's only under contract for two years.


He's more than a patch up role player. The funny thing is this is a team sport. The Hornets would have needed more pieces regardless. You make it sound like you can trade a guy with a rookie contract for Lebron James.

Ariza will never be anything more than a role player. Yes, it is a team game. But Ariza is good for a team that is already great and looking to make the next step to become a champion. A similar guy like that is Posey. But he's not going to help a .500 team become a conference champion.

And for a franchise in this situation, where it's hard to attract free agents, you don't throw away a more talented player for a short term upgrade, especially when that talent has far more upside. The hornets only real way of getting quality talent no-strings-attached is through the draft, and they proved that by getting Collison and Thornton.

Every time they attempt to make a deal or to sign a free agent, it ends poorly for them, because they have to overpay players to come there. So when you hit two home runs like they did with their draft, you don't throw that potential away on a guy who you think might be the glue guy role player. And like it or not, that's exactly what Ariza is: a role player who can play defense and shoot the outside shot.


You also make it sound like the Hornets wanted to add payroll.

I never made any comments that would indicate that at all.


Like I asked previously, who was the better player NO was going to get and be realistic about it. There isn't a lot available now. Ariza is a good player at a good price.
Again: just because there may not have been a better deal (debatable) doesn't mean you have to make the deal. Just because he was available doesn't mean it's a good deal at all. A deal didn't have to be made which put them in a worse position all around.

Listen, their draft picks were upgrades over Peja and Posey on the wing. Peja was a defensive red-carpet and Posey doesn't have anything left in the tank. What the team needed is to make a move to keep Paul happy and get the team contending, and they didn't accomplish either with giving away Collison, who would have been both an insurance policy on Paul if he got injured yet again, and when he eventually leaves. If they got that, I would be ok with it, but they didn't, and now they will be left with nothing.

[All Net]

Thought Hornets would get more for Collison than just Ariza.

[chains5000]

Just because reality may be unpleasant doesn't make it pessimistic. The reality is that Paul will only stay if they are contending for a championship. The reality is that isn't going to happen in 1 1/2 seasons.
So the only realistic destination for him is Orlando?

[paintingshade]

Lee and Kevin Martin are best friends off the court apparently. I dunno if it's true, it was on truehoop blog.

[catzhernandez]

Pacers win by a landslide. Feels good to know this.

[zORi]

http://blackmanx.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/lebron-james.jpg

most importantly, CP3 stays in New Orleans!

You think this will convince him to stay?

[DinoRadja40]

GO PACERS, GO PACERS, GO PACERS, GO PACERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
:cheers: :applause: :rockon: :banana: :D :lol :bowdown: :hammerhead: :djparty :party:

[tpols]

Damn pacers have collison, a future top 5 point, a solid playmaking SG/SF, a developing all star big man, and solid role players- they could be a darkhorse team now.

[Rameek]

This was a great trade for the Nets. Luckily they have a good coach in Avery that will hopefully teach them how to play defense!

It seems like NO gave away Collinson for nothing though.













Skip Bayless is a man amongst boys

[catzhernandez]

Lol at how bad Nets fans will hate Murphy. Lucky he's just a one year rental.

[Nets fan 93]

Lol at how bad Nets fans will hate Murphy. Lucky he's just a one year rental.
Whats there to laugh about? If he makes bonehead plays we have a coach who can staighten him out. If that doesn work we have Derrick Favors who can also start. Favors may be raw offensively but not so much defensively

[Nastradamus]

I have no idea what we could give him but i'd like to see posey back with the Celts

and you probably will. they need a backup 3, other than Daniels.

[LA_Showtime]

It's not just being a playoff team, it's being a team full of promising young prospects about to walk into a season with tons of expiring deals and/or cap space to turn into another major piece. It's not "Hey, we got DC, now we can top out at an ECF or two," it's "we're filling holes with young studs and who knows the limit?" I don't take it the wrong way, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way either. It must be damn nice being a fan of a franchise who's success is very much predicated on strictly location. That's no one's fault and no one should apologize for it, anything like that, just a nice perk that takes no doing of the franchise. I know a lot of Laker fans will be up in arms when I say it, but the realistic ones understand the truth, put Kupchak in Indy and Bird in LA (looking past his Boston and Indiana history) and they both most likely have completely different legacies. I for one am quite proud of our diehard fanbase and the history of our (NBA) ringless franchise.

No, I completely understand. Let's be honest here: who the hell would rather play in Indiana than in Los Angeles? Having the luxury of a great (yet overrated) city is definitely nice.

[catzhernandez]

No, I completely understand. Let's be honest here: who the hell would rather play in Indiana than in Los Angeles? Having the luxury of a great (yet overrated) city is definitely nice.
Reggie Miller.

[mattevans11]

Damn pacers have collison, a future top 5 point, a solid playmaking SG/SF, a developing all star big man, and solid role players- they could be a darkhorse team now.


I dont even see him as a top 3 pg in his own draft class........ and you think he is a lock for top 5 in the NBA?

[Nets fan 93]

I dont even see him as a top 3 pg in his own draft class........ and you think he is a lock for top 5 in the NBA?
Only time will tell.

[Nastradamus]

I dont even see him as a top 3 pg in his own draft class........ and you think he is a lock for top 5 in the NBA?

Great point. The system is perfect for him, so he'll excel, but lets not pretend he will lead to 50 wins or something. He's a solid starter, but still learning and doesn't play much D(like most of the Pacers).

[InspiredLebowski]

Great point. The system is perfect for him, so he'll excel, but lets not pretend he will lead to 50 wins or something. He's a solid starter, but still learning and doesn't play much D(like most of the Pacers).
The biggest problem with the defense just left

[Nastradamus]

The biggest problem with the defense just left

That's partly true, but Collison is no better, nor are the 4s you have on the roster, other than Foster, who probably plays 5(backup). I don't think O'Brien knows how to teach D anyways.

[InspiredLebowski]

That's partly true, but Collison is no better, nor are the 4s you have on the roster, other than Foster, who probably plays 5(backup). I don't think O'Brien knows how to teach D anyways.
I haven't seen enough of DC, but being a worse defender than Murphy is tough to believe. Scouting reports I've read he's a pesky little guy, gets into his man, he's just got such a slight frame it's easy for him to just get pushed around. The effort's apparently there, with Murphy it wasn't. And every big on the roster is a better defender than Murphy. Hansbrough's clearly a downgrade all around, but he's at least adequate defending the block. Murphy leaving is addition by subtraction in terms of defense, it's going to do wonders for Hibbert.

[mattevans11]

Great point. The system is perfect for him, so he'll excel, but lets not pretend he will lead to 50 wins or something. He's a solid starter, but still learning and doesn't play much D(like most of the Pacers).


and at current rankings he is not even top 20 (just off the top of my head) or so in the league at his position.

I agree that he is an upgrade, but like i have posted in an earlier post...... its easier to fill in for an injury than it is to run your owm team......

[LA_Showtime]

Reggie Miller.

Well, obviously. But you know what I mean.

[Rambis]

No, I completely understand. Let's be honest here: who the hell would rather play in Indiana than in Los Angeles? Having the luxury of a great (yet overrated) city city is definitely nice.

And I was just starting to think how completely logical your posts were becoming.

WTF do you mean? For a baller, there are NO better looking women, no better digs, and no better access to doing Hollywood $hit and blowing your brand up. LA is the center of movies AND music -- if you have money to spend ain't no better. Unless you want to play for the Knicks, of course.

Overrated?:blah :blah :blah

Why you got to hate?

That's kinda like constantly dumping on your team's star for his performance in the Game 7 finals that the team won. Oh wait, you already do that.

[HylianNightmare]

lee to houston?

alright, and the pacers finally get a nice PG in collison, i don't see why the nets do it or the rockets, really, they must really not like arize

[Nets fan 93]

lee to houston?

alright, and the pacers finally get a nice PG in collison, i don't see why the nets do it or the rockets, really, they must really not like arize
The Nets do it because they need a PF. You may think "hey there is Favors"?
But in reality he really isnt ready to start. imo he should have waited to declare for the draft. He was a top 3 pick though so whatever. I expect big things from Favors but not his rookie season. we rent Troy for 1 year and then test out Favors next year. Favors will get his time, especially if either Lopez or Troy get injured. Lee was nice but pretty inconsistent. one game he would get 20+ points the next he would be 0-12 or something. He is better suited on a team like the rockets.

[Nastradamus]

I haven't seen enough of DC, but being a worse defender than Murphy is tough to believe. Scouting reports I've read he's a pesky little guy, gets into his man, he's just got such a slight frame it's easy for him to just get pushed around. The effort's apparently there, with Murphy it wasn't. And every big on the roster is a better defender than Murphy. Hansbrough's clearly a downgrade all around, but he's at least adequate defending the block. Murphy leaving is addition by subtraction in terms of defense, it's going to do wonders for Hibbert.

True, though you'll miss his rebounding on that end at the same time.

[Nastradamus]

lee to houston?

alright, and the pacers finally get a nice PG in collison, i don't see why the nets do it or the rockets, really, they must really not like arize

Nets needed a legit starting 4 for the short term and had cap space to burn.

[HylianNightmare]

The Nets do it because they need a PF. You may think "hey there is Favors"?
But in reality he really isnt ready to start. imo he should have waited to declare for the draft. He was a top 3 pick though so whatever. I expect big things from Favors but not his rookie season. we rent Troy for 1 year and then test out Favors next year. Favors will get his time, especially if either Lopez or Troy get injured. Lee was nice but pretty inconsistent. one game he would get 20+ points the next he would be 0-12 or something. He is better suited on a team like the rockets.


ah, i wasn't really up to date with favors, i didn't know he wasn't a starter yet.

then in that case the deal makes more sense, though i'm a little sad to see lee move around soo much so early on in his career

[Nets fan 93]

ah, i wasn't really up to date with favors, i didn't know he wasn't a starter yet.

then in that case the deal makes more sense, though i'm a little sad to see lee move around soo much so early on in his career
He will be a very nice piece for Houston on the bench. He just wasnt a quality starter for us. He needs a team like the rockets to relieve him of the offensive stress.
Favors could be ready but is raw. Bringing in a nice shooter and starter is a nice deal for us. The Pacers are the clear winners tough. Nets got a nice 1 yr rental though.

[Sakkreth]

It sux to be CP3 nowadays.

[Nets fan 93]

It sux to be CP3 nowadays.
I know... he must be really pissed NO upgraded the SF position and gave away a guy that could potentially even take some of Paul's minutes.:rolleyes: