International teams play a better brand of basketball than USA

[joe]

If the Americans didn't have an athletic advantage over these squads, they'd be getting blown out of the building.

The game against Lithuania sparked these thoughts in me, but make no mistake about it.. I've felt this way for a while. I should also mention that I'm a Yank myself (born and raised in upstate New York). It's been over the course of several international competitions that I've come to this conclusion (which isn't hard to see)..

While the USA players are better individually (and they are), they seem to be entirely lacking in the fundamental concept of moving the ball. Of finding the open man.

Other countries are constantly looking to pass. The ball finds its way to cutters and open shooters. In contrast, the Americans over dribble for one-on-one moves that lead to contested jumpers.

I found myself rooting for Lithuania because the Americans are maddening to watch. To see the Lithuanian's make brilliant, crisp passes and smart decisions with the ball, immediately followed by a Gay/Durant/Rose/etc taking 10 dribbles then pulling up for 3... I mean, rooting for the other side was something I couldn't help but do.

Anyone else feeling the same?

[PurpleChuck]

I feel the same way too. Although I seen on some occasion the Lithuanian tries too hard to force a pass and lead to a turnover.

Anyway, the NBA has evolved into a league which puts more emphasis and spotlight on individual capabilities and performance. That's why our players aren't trained or rather, can't be trained to play like other international teams.

Team > Player

[TheLogo]

I have been saying this for years and if it wasn't for the Americans athleticisim and talent they get beat everytime. Fundamentals and passing the ball doens't exist with USA basketball, not since '92 and in Beijing.

I blame Kobe Bryant for not being on the team. If he and Kidd was on the team we would sing a different tune. Kobe is the last of a dying breed, who played in the 90's, who also possess man fundamental skills.

This USA team is young and if Kobe was on the team, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He is the only player that can adjust his game to international play. 4th quarter of the gold medal game comes to mind.

Hopefully, Kobe will be on the team, if not, just his presence there would do wonders for this young team.

[Go Getter]

No I do not.

I'm sick of all this USA bashing.

The US won the game and all everyone can do is point to the US's faults....what about Lithuania's faults? Why haven't they been mentioned?

The only players on Team USA with extensive FIBA experience are who? Billups and Odom?

The rest of the players are adjusting to a new form of ball after being told to do things a certain way for their short careers....it takes some adjusting to.

Americans have skills, we know how to pass and set screens and move without the ball, and we are the best basketball nation in the world.

The thing is in my mind is that some people don't like watching young, talented, and brazen young black men play ball.

Cool.

But don't act like team USA is more athletic because of natural ability and we have no skill.

Other teams would be more athletic if they spent more time in the weight room....some of these guys are dedicated and hard working...they weren't born ripped.

We run and play good defense so we don't have to implement as much offense because we probably have to worst cohesiveness in the tournament....again, not the player's fault.

[ZenMaster]

No I do not.

I'm sick of all this USA bashing.

The US won the game and all everyone can do is point to the US's faults....what about Lithuania's faults? Why haven't they been mentioned?

The only players on Team USA with extensive FIBA experience are who? Billups and Odom?

The rest of the players are adjusting to a new form of ball after being told to do things a certain way for their short careers....it takes some adjusting to.

Americans have skills, we know how to pass and set screens and move without the ball, and we are the best basketball nation in the world.

The thing is in my mind is that some people don't like watching young, talented, and brazen young black men play ball.

Cool.

But don't act like team USA is more athletic because of natural ability and we have no skill.

Other teams would be more athletic if they spent more time in the weight room....some of these guys are dedicated and hard working...they weren't born ripped.

We run and play good defense so we don't have to implement as much offense because we probably have to worst cohesiveness in the tournament....again, not the player's fault.

No, other teams would be just as athletic if they had as many athletic black players.

[TheLogo]

No, other teams would be just as athletic if they had as many athletic black players.

trolling as usual.

:facepalm

[Manute for Ever!]

I have been saying this for years and if it wasn't for the Americans athleticisim and talent they get beat everytime. Fundamentals and passing the ball doens't exist with USA basketball, not since '92 and in Beijing.

I blame Kobe Bryant for not being on the team. If he and Kidd was on the team we would sing a different tune. Kobe is the last of a dying breed, who played in the 90's, who also possess man fundamental skills.

This USA team is young and if Kobe was on the team, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He is the only player that can adjust his game to international play. 4th quarter of the gold medal game comes to mind.

Hopefully, Kobe will be on the team, if not, just his presence there would do wonders for this young team.

That's funny, yesterday you mentioned several times that you thought the '90's was one of the weakest eras.

Back on topic, a team of champions is never as good as a champion team.

[Go Getter]

No, other teams would be just as athletic if they had as many athletic black players.


If you look at a lot of international players it doesn't look as if they put much work in their physiques. Even when they get to the league they aren't as strong as they need to be.

My point was that all of it [physicality] isn't due to your race/color it's due to hard work.

My belief is that more foreigners would be able to play "NBA brand ball" if they hit the weights more.

[TheLogo]

If you look at a lot of international players it doesn't look as if they put much work in their physiques. Even when they get to the league they aren't as strong as they need to be.

My point was that all of it [physicality] isn't due to your race/color it's due to hard work.

My belief is that more foreigners would be able to play "NBA brand ball" if they hit the weights more.

USA = lifting weights

International = working on their game

[DuMa]

USA may not play together like a complete team like some FIBA contenders like Spain or Argentina but they are for sure contenders. USA doesnt have team chemistry like those teams but they will make up for it by effort, speed and defense.

USA has been a completely different brand of basketball for several years now apart from the contenders of FIBA/Olympic tournaments. And a new team for USA is just not going to magically form into a FIBA team after a month of playing together. Why do we still criticize them using this old ass 4-5 year old logic? i do not know. It may be an inferior 'brand' but its still an effective 'brand'. Who cares how good a team looks by crisp passing and chemistry, if you can get fcuking shit done. Outside of 04 and 06 when they didnt get gold and got bronze instead, USA has been successful everytime in FIBA play. USA is just going to try to win everytime playing their style. its the only style they know how to play.

[Go Getter]

USA = lifting weights

International = working on their game


Wait, so that means American ball players don't work on their game as well?

Lifting weights IS working on your game sir, when you lift weights and train your first step, lift, ability to post/set screens/ hold position, etc all get better.

[Go Getter]

USA has been a completely different brand of basketball for several years now apart from the contenders of FIBA/Olympic tournaments. And a new team for USA is just not going to magically form into a FIBA team after a month of playing together. Why do we still criticize them using this old ass 4-5 year old logic? i do not know. It may be an inferior 'brand' but its still an effective 'brand'. Who cares how good a team looks by crisp passing and chemistry, if you can get fcuking shit done. Outside of 04 and 06 when they didnt get gold and got bronze instead, USA has been successful everytime in FIBA play. USA is just going to try to win everytime playing their style.


Exactly.

People underestimate the difficulty of adjusting to FIBA and a new group of teammates.

Notice how the Liths crisp passing and cutting got them beat by a team that is not near our best.

[TheLogo]

Wait, so that means American ball players don't work on their game as well?

Lifting weights IS working on your game sir, when you lift weights and train your first step, lift, ability to post/set screens/ hold position, etc all get better.

All that is fine and dandy but basketball is a game of improvise, I would rather have a player that lifts and work on his game.

If I had to choose one, I rather a plaeyr work on his skills. It will help with his creativity.

Let me give you an example, so you can relate to what I am saying.....

Kareem....very skillful and creative....you can count on him to score and improvise.

Dwight Howard....power lifter, benches like a mad man, squats like Superman and jumps out of the gym...no natural basketball ability.

Heck, I am more natural to the game of basketball than he is...at least I have a "go-to" move.

[ZenMaster]

If you look at a lot of international players it doesn't look as if they put much work in their physiques. Even when they get to the league they aren't as strong as they need to be.

My point was that all of it [physicality] isn't due to your race/color it's due to hard work.

My belief is that more foreigners would be able to play "NBA brand ball" if they hit the weights more.

It's ignorant not to believe it has a great deal to do with body genetics. There's plenty of weightlifting done on European basketball teams.

What about all the great white players from the US, where are they?
Doesn't white Americans lift weights as much as the black ones? Don't they put as much overall work in as the black guys?
Are the white players in the US not as good as the black ones? Why is that?
Is it because of the great inner city basketball programs that the US consists mostly of black players?
Why are the best white players in the NBA from Europe?
Where are your white American 7-footers who's got skill like Nowitzki and Pau? Surely there must be some big white players who have talent and have the time to hit the weight rooms as much as the black American players? Or doesn't the American youth development system work for white players? If so, why not?

[TheLogo]

It's ignorant not to believe it has a great deal to do with body genetics. There's plenty of weightlifting done on European basketball teams.

What about all the great white players from the US, where are they?
Doesn't white Americans lift weights as much as the black ones? Don't they put as much overall work in as the black guys?
Are the white players in the US not as good as the black ones? Why is that?
Is it because of the great inner city basketball programs that the US consists mostly of black players?
Why are the best white players in the NBA from Europe?
Where are your white American 7-footers who's got skill like Nowitzki and Pau? Surely there must be some big white players who have talent and have the time to hit the weight rooms as much as the black American players? Or doesn't the American youth development system work for white players? If so, why not?

it never seems to surprise me that this troll keeps bringing up race.

:facepalm

negged for racism.

[Go Getter]

It's ignorant not to believe it has a great deal to do with body genetics. There's plenty of weightlifting done on European basketball teams.

What about all the great white players from the US, where are they?
Doesn't white Americans lift weights as much as the black ones? Don't they put as much overall work in as the black guys?
Are the white players in the US not as good as the black ones? Why is that?
Is it because of the great inner city basketball programs that the US consists mostly of black players?
Why are the best white players in the NBA from Europe?
Where are your white American 7-footers who's got skill like Nowitzki and Pau? Surely there must be some big white players who have talent and have the time to hit the weight rooms as much as the black American players? Or doesn't the American youth development system work for white players? If so, why not?


I'm not here to argue the topic you seem to want to discuss.

My point is that Euro players don't lift as much as American ones....if they do I don't see the results on the court.

[Go Getter]

All that is fine and dandy but basketball is a game of improvise, I would rather have a player that lifts and work on his game.

If I had to choose one, I rather a plaeyr work on his skills. It will help with his creativity.

Let me give you an example, so you can relate to what I am saying.....

Kareem....very skillful and creative....you can count on him to score and improvise.

Dwight Howard....power lifter, benches like a mad man, squats like Superman and jumps out of the gym...no natural basketball ability.

Heck, I am more natural to the game of basketball than he is...at least I have a "go-to" move.


Your opinion is your right sir.

But you are taking things too radically.

You can do both.

My point is that Euro players look like they neglect the weight room too much.




*Note, your go to move is trash by NBA standards and if you were 6'10" you would probably be a no coordination-having stiff.

[Go Getter]

Physicality only gets you so far.

So if the international teams play a better brand of ball, they are more skilled, they KNOW FIBA rules better, and have more cohesiveness as a team then why does USA win with their 'inferior brand of ball?'

Oh yeah, natural ability [only]....:rolleyes:

[ZenMaster]

I'm not here to argue the topic you seem to want to discuss.

My point is that Euro players don't lift as much as American ones....if they do I don't see the results on the court.

That's because most of them are white, not because they European.
I don't see white Team USA players who are just as strong and athletic as the black Team USA players, so my question to you is, don't the white US players lift as much as black US players?

[ZenMaster]

it never seems to surprise me that this troll keeps bringing up race.

:facepalm

negged for racism.

Racism against who? White Europeans?

[Go Getter]

That's because most of them are white, not because they European.
I don't see white Team USA players who are just as strong and athletic as the black Team USA players, so my question to you is, don't the white US players lift as much as black US players?


They do [from my knowledge].

Athleticism is more than just running and jumping though.

Most euro players that come over here are weak by NBA standards and that can be simply solved with a good weight training program.

I'm not saying the players in question will run like Wall and jump like prime VC but the gap in athleticism would shrink.

[TheLogo]

Racism against who? White Europeans?

racism is racism.

stop justifying for your selective racism.

:facepalm

[ZenMaster]

They do [from my knowledge].

Athleticism is more than just running and jumping though.

Most euro players that come over here are weak by NBA standards and that can be simply solved with a good weight training program.

I'm not saying the players in question will run like Wall and jump like prime VC but the gap in athleticism would shrink.

If they do, where are all the great white US players? In the US they're going through the same training as black US players, so why are the best players in the US black? Why is there a gap in the overall athleticism between white and black US players when they are in the same system with the same training and en equal opportunity to lift weights?

[Go Getter]

This thread reminds me of the last scene in Hoosiers.

All year the boys ran that picket fence play that worked to perfection [among others].

So they finally make it to the state title game, down one, and the coach calls up the good ole play for the boys to run and every one of them kinda rolls their eyes and/or sighs as if to say, "look coach, give it to the man and we'll get out his way so we can win this thing."

There is a certain beauty and style that comes with great team effort but Team USA doesn't have the time to cultivate it.

So we do what we can, which is ride our superior individual talent.

Teams like the Lakers, Suns, and Celtics have some of the same qualities as Lithuania showed today.

The Kings, Jazz, Bulls, Pistons, etc of old had great passing and teamwork....saying that Americans don't have the skill or temperament to play team ball is absolutely false.

[ZenMaster]

racism is racism.

stop justifying for your selective racism.

:facepalm

But where have I been racists? And who have I been racist towards?

Just because you see the words black and white you play this BS card because you can't argue for a good answer to my questions.

[Go Getter]

If they do, where are all the great white US players? In the US they're going through the same training as black US players, so why are the best players in the US black? Why is there a gap in the overall athleticism between white and black US players when they are in the same system with the same training and en equal opportunity to lift weights?


Again, not going there with you.

I said my bit. Euro players can become more athletic if they hit the weights more.

Not trying to be mean or anything, just not in the mood for this topic.

[Blackisbig]

Thank Stern and the rule changes for all of this. If they allowed the physical defense that you see in FIBA play to be introduced back into the NBA, than you'd see players forced into developing more traditional games rather than the drive/throw up shot/look for foul game that you see today.

[ZenMaster]

Again, not going there with you.

I said my bit. Euro players can become more athletic if they hit the weights more.

Not trying to be mean or anything, just not in the mood for this topic.

But this topic is the reason for Euro players not being more athletic. Not that they're European and don't work out a lot.

[B-Easy8]

Being Australian we play with the Fiba rules over here and I can tell you that the game is much more interesting to watch than the NBA. Don't get me wrong the NBA is a superior competition and the international players don't have the athleticism or skill level that the Americans possess but they play as a team which is very good to watch. The Fiba game is also much more physical and their are no superstar calls, it is unheard of for a player to get more than 6-8ft's a game. Also their are so many timeouts in the NBA it just drags the game out.

[brantonli]

I'm not here to argue the topic you seem to want to discuss.

My point is that Euro players don't lift as much as American ones....if they do I don't see the results on the court.

But how about the European players who come to the NBA? Granted there's Manu who surprises everybody with a jam now and then, but then guys like Nowitzki, Nash (if he can be counted), Scola, Peja. I have never noticed those guys developing athletically.

[Yung D-Will]

The new rules were the worst thing to happen to the Nba

[Go Getter]

But how about the European players who come to the NBA? Granted there's Manu who surprises everybody with a jam now and then, but then guys like Nowitzki, Nash (if he can be counted), Scola, Peja. I have never noticed those guys developing athletically.

Dirk has developed quite a bit as an athlete since coming to the NBA.

Maybe I didn't word it correctly but idk.

Not saying that they would be as or more athletic I said it would help and that players like AI, D. Rose, and RW put in hours in the weight room which is a big part of their athleticism, it isn't all gifted.

[plowking]

The thing is in my mind is that some people don't like watching young, talented, and brazen young black men play ball.



Do you seriously make everything a black and white thing?

[50inchvertical]

But how about the European players who come to the NBA? Granted there's Manu who surprises everybody with a jam now and then, but then guys like Nowitzki, Nash (if he can be counted), Scola, Peja. I have never noticed those guys developing athletically.
Because they never really tried to. Look at a guy like Robertas Javtokas, who obviously does work on his size and athleticism. Anybody can get more athletic and change their physique if they put the work in. People act like black people come out the womb with 40 inch verticals or something.
http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/rs/22317/7dd1e5a9-6d1e-44ba-805c-0858188b732f/d0a/filename/robertas-javtokas-bc-khimki.jpg

Or look at what Skita did to his body in one offseason, 215 to 240
http://www.nba.com/media/nuggets/tskitishvili_254_021027.jpg

http://content.draftexpress.com/gallery/General/1181884921.jpg

Even this kat, at 52, did it (P90X)
http://www.accelerate-weight-loss.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/before-afterMay2010.png

[Go Getter]

Do you seriously make everything a black and white thing?
No, I'm just stating a point....you're making it that way.

If you haven't noticed I have been trying not to join a racial debate.

Some of my HS pals would rather watch an IN HS basketball game (over an NBA one) featuring four passes before a shot, no frills, no dunks, and if there are any brothers on the court they don't look or act like a young AI if you know what I mean.

That's not racist and I don't believe people that find a team full spoiled, brazen, gifted Negros less appealing than a fundamentally sound, bland, and heady Euros are racist either.

You made it a race issue.

I said "some people might not like."

"It" could be for a myriad of reasons, race is not the first thing that came to mind actually.

[50inchvertical]

Who on the current team "looks or acts like a young AI?" :oldlol:

[niko]

The difference between us and the other teams in the tournament is two
1) The international game is different, and emphasizes shooting and spreading the floor. It's been a long time since american basketball emphasized shooting. That hurts. We don't play that style. If we were having an NBA rules tournament we'd cruise.
2) We throw together our team on a whim. These European teams have guys who have come up playing together on national teams for years upon years. if you don't think that's a big deal you clearly never played any ball that was even remotely semi-competitive.

That's all.

[plowking]

No, I'm just stating a point....you're making it that way.

If you haven't noticed I have been trying not to join a racial debate.

Some of my HS pals would rather watch an IN HS basketball game featuring four passes before a shot, no frills, no dunks, and if there are any brothers on the court they don't look or act like a young AI if you know what I mean.

That's not racist and I don't believe people that find a team full spoiled, brazen, gifted Negros less appealing than a fundamentally sound, bland, and heady Euros are racist either.

You made it a race issue.

I said "some people might not like."

"It" could be for a myriad of reasons, race is not the first thing that came to mind actually.

Whatever man.

It's exactly people like you that keep these racial boundaries going far into the future by spreading such talk to younger generations.

If it's not a race issue, don't mention race. You were the first to do so, and you constantly do this in damn near every thread. "It's not racist, but it's a fact" bullshit that you pull is tired and played out. Get the notion out of your head.
Some people honestly couldn't give a rats ass about a persons color where as you seem to always find reason to investigate.

[Go Getter]

Who on the current team "looks or acts like a young AI?" :oldlol:
Where did you get that from?

You missed my point--it was about perception.

[Yung D-Will]

Whatever man.

It's exactly people like you that keep these racial boundaries going far into the future by spreading such talk to younger generations.

If it's not a race issue, don't mention race. You were the first to do so, and you constantly do this in damn near every thread. "It's not racist, but it's a fact" bullshit that you pull is tired and played out. Get the notion out of your head.
Some people honestly couldn't give a rats ass about a persons color where as you seem to always find reason to investigate.

He's Al Sharpton version2.

[Go Getter]

Whatever man.

It's exactly people like you that keep these racial boundaries going far into the future by spreading such talk to younger generations.

If it's not a race issue, don't mention race. You were the first to do so, and you constantly do this in damn near every thread. "It's not racist, but it's a fact" bullshit that you pull is tired and played out. Get the notion out of your head.
Some people honestly couldn't give a rats ass about a persons color where as you seem to always find reason to investigate.
You are so close minded it's sort of pitiful.

My point actually expressed that you can not like brazen, gifted, and spoiled black athletes and not be racist.

Why your feelings are all hurt over my font is a different story.

I point out something that's my truth, my opinion without being hurtful or malicious and it's an issue with you.

Tell me how, specifically, I turned things racial or made comment that is false and I will sincerely apologize.


If not, wipe your vulva and man up.

My opinion doesn't have to hurt your feelings all the time.

[Go Getter]

He's Al Sharpton version2.
Weak.

Plus I go to more Jazz games than you and know your idol.

D. Rose> D. Will in 2010, 2011

Now burn.

[olddangerfield]

No I do not.

I'm sick of all this USA bashing.

The US won the game and all everyone can do is point to the US's faults....what about Lithuania's faults? Why haven't they been mentioned?

The only players on Team USA with extensive FIBA experience are who? Billups and Odom?

The rest of the players are adjusting to a new form of ball after being told to do things a certain way for their short careers....it takes some adjusting to.

Americans have skills, we know how to pass and set screens and move without the ball, and we are the best basketball nation in the world.

The thing is in my mind is that some people don't like watching young, talented, and brazen young black men play ball.

Cool.

But don't act like team USA is more athletic because of natural ability and we have no skill.

Other teams would be more athletic if they spent more time in the weight room....some of these guys are dedicated and hard working...they weren't born ripped.

We run and play good defense so we don't have to implement as much offense because we probably have to worst cohesiveness in the tournament....again, not the player's fault.

Not everything is about race, chill out. Have you even seen any of the international games? Their better fundamentals are undeniable, ESPN/ABC/TNT/NBATV coverage pretty much agrees on the same thing.

[plowking]

My point actually expressed that you can not like brazen, gifted, and spoiled black athletes and not be racist.



Once again, what has it got to do with black or white in the first place? The fact that you brought up race at all is my point. You love looking at everything in black and white.

Your opinions don't hurt my feelings, its just the fact you make everything about race (it doesn't have to be racist) and you look stupid because of it.

[Yung D-Will]

Weak.

Plus I go to more Jazz games than you and know your idol.

D. Rose> D. Will in 2010, 2011

Now burn.

And exactly what does that have to do with you being a closed minded racist?

And lol at D-Rose being better then D-Will. Maybe once D-Rose gets better then Rondo we can talk

[olddangerfield]

You are so close minded it's sort of pitiful.

My point actually expressed that you can not like brazen, gifted, and spoiled black athletes and not be racist.

Why your feelings are all hurt over my font is a different story.

I point out something that's my truth, my opinion without being hurtful or malicious and it's an issue with you.

Tell me how, specifically, I turned things racial or made comment that is false and I will sincerely apologize.


If not, wipe your vulva and man up.

My opinion doesn't have to hurt your feelings all the time.

lol it's obvious your the one that's butthurt. His argument was based on fact and passive. Your post seems to be a lot more aggressive and reeks of lol u mad.

[Go Getter]

Not everything is about race, chill out. Have you even seen any of the international games? Their better fundamentals are undeniable, ESPN/ABC/TNT/NBATV coverage pretty much agrees on the same thing.

Exactly. So if someone likes fundamental ball better than the way the brothers play ball that's their right which was my original point.

[Go Getter]

And exactly what does that have to do with you being a closed minded racist?

And lol at D-Rose being better then D-Will. Maybe once D-Rose gets better then Rondo we can talk

A racist would have to take part in racist actions or speech and you have yet to point that occurance out.

I treat everyone I meet with respect, I work for a Mormon owned business.

I have no problem pointing out differences between races and the facts as I see them.

One fact being that some people don't like the brothers style of
play and and some don't equate any measure of black men's athleticism to hard work and training.

Also, ball handling and finishing at the rim are skills.

If you want me to turn this racial I can spin it that way but your panties might twist.

The whole USA isn't skilled, we play an inferior brand of ball, "ooooh look how they suck" is vulturistic bullshit.

[mayo'sgrizz]

international teams do NOT play better brand of ball. they play like this bc when they play team usa its the only way they can stay close by slowing the game down and running 26 screens and pick an rolls per possession. france and lithuania have not had a guard who can handle the ball and team usa has taken advantage of tht and made them pay. the US team has not peaked yet in the tourny they will be ok. idk maybe its just me but i have yet to be "worried" bout any of these teams. but they will have to play better tonight when they play spain bc they hav much more firepower.

[mayo'sgrizz]

international teams do NOT play better brand of ball. they play like this bc when they play team usa its the only way they can stay close by slowing the game down and running 26 screens and pick an rolls per possession. france and lithuania have not had a guard who can handle the ball and team usa has taken advantage of tht and made them pay. the US team has not peaked yet in the tourny they will be ok. idk maybe its just me but i have yet to be "worried" bout any of these teams. but they will have to play better tonight when they play spain bc they hav much more firepower.

[Younggrease]

Exactly.

People underestimate the difficulty of adjusting to FIBA and a new group of teammates.

Notice how the Liths crisp passing and cutting got them beat by a team that is not near our best.

you think this is a traditionally good Lithuanian team?

[TROLL_HUNTER]

My god, the level of iliteracy , political-correctness and stupidity in this forum is off the charts. How can you possibly deny the genetical difference between races??? COME ON GUYS! are you dumb or what?? so basically white american players dont like basketball and thats why they are mostly black , right? so basically blacks dont like swimming and thats why ALL the swimmers are white, right ? so blacks dont like ciclying and thats why all the cyclists are white.... GENS is the difference-maker. each race has different characteristics and the strength , size and athleticism is something natural in blacks. Arguing this is beyond stupid. its like saying the earth is squared.


what is just funny is that when it comes to discuss obvious and blatant facts related to races and genders some people freak out and dont even think about whats been discussed. the point of Zenmaster is more than appropriate and the idea has been clearly laid out. so based on this, "gens equality" that some of you preach, asians and norther europeans are the same height and strength, right? ofcourse, there are always exceptions (like Yao) but the general rule is objectively undeniable

[50inchvertical]

Then why do white football players have no problems getting big? Or MMA fighters? or WWE wrestlers? professional bodybuilders? Seems like the whole "genetics" argument is easy to overcome if you wanted to with obvious exception of height which was stupid of you to even include for that reason.

How could you be comparing height though to body composition and athleticism? There's generally not much you can do about your height, but you can easily change your physique and athleticism.

[TROLL_HUNTER]

as for the core matter of the thread, europeans have better fumdamentals, yes. its a question of culture, too. in USA the individualism is hailed to madness and that sinks in the players too. its the media , fans and everybody else discussing who is better than who, whos has the better career, who has the better legacy..etc... all that has an impact in the players and the sport culture, too.

In europe those arguments dont exist. its all about teams. and that idea is reflected in coaches and teams just the same. the player who becomes a ball hog is sitted on the bench and the media will hang him to dry.

Also, its the fact that when you are an athletic freak you may become lazy and not willing to learn fundamentals. Example: dwight. hes a huge monster and all his play is based on his athleticism. he is successful by being like that so theres no need for further effort. As europeans are not half as strong as black americans are they have to base their game in other aspects in order to survive. its that simple

[50inchvertical]

The inferior fundamentally Team USA also shot better from the field, and from 3, and had more assists. Hell, Lithuania couldn't even get the ball upcourt against token full court pressure. Isn't dribbling a fundamental? How about breaking a press, which just breaks down to spacing and passing?

It's all subjective. You could say they pass a lot to score every time so that means they're better fundamentals, someone else could say they do that because they lack the ball handling, speed, and individual create their own offense.

They've sent send over all countless 6'10+ dudes who can shoot long jumpshots all the way out to the 3 even, but can't figure out how to score on somebody 6 inches shorter than them in the post, nor make a play defensively in the paint area so is that really better fundamentally?

And then at the same time, they're losing at "their own" game anyways, so somehow the USA has the best balance of whatever it takes to win basketball games.

[Rose]

FIBA ball is just better team basketball. Obviously NBA players are superior to the foreign ones. But the FIBA guys have talent and mix it together perfectly with their fundamentals, attitudes, and they just know what their specific role is and never try to step outside the lines. It's hard-nosed, physical, and more entertaining. I mean how could you not love watching all their savvy passes, guts, and teamwork that the NBA hasn't seen in a few years?

Personally I couldn't care less about what medal it is, as long as I see some good games, and the USA team plays their hardest.

[CeltsGarlic]

The inferior fundamentally Team USA also shot better from the field, and from 3, and had more assists. Hell, Lithuania couldn't even get the ball upcourt against token full court pressure. Isn't dribbling a fundamental? How about breaking a press, which just breaks down to spacing and passing?

It's all subjective. You could say they pass a lot to score every time so that means they're better fundamentals, someone else could say they do that because they lack the ball handling, speed, and individual create their own offense.

They've sent send over all countless 6'10+ dudes who can shoot long jumpshots all the way out to the 3 even, but can't figure out how to score on somebody 6 inches shorter than them in the post, nor make a play defensively in the paint area so is that really better fundamentally?

And then at the same time, they're losing at "their own" game anyways, so somehow the USA has the best balance of whatever it takes to win basketball games.


Its quite a simple answer.Lithuania back-up PG is super bad thats is why we made so much mistakes during full court press and thats why he got kicked out of the team.The second thing you probobly didnt noticed that when LTU was wining they sudenlly changed almost whole players on the court - thats will not happen during real matches in WC.

BTW congratz on 1000 comment.

[ZenMaster]

Then why do white football players have no problems getting big? Or MMA fighters? or WWE wrestlers? professional bodybuilders? Seems like the whole "genetics" argument is easy to overcome if you wanted to with obvious exception of height which was stupid of you to even include for that reason.

How could you be comparing height though to body composition and athleticism? There's generally not much you can do about your height, but you can easily change your physique and athleticism.

It's not only about getting big, it's about getting big while remaining mobile, explosive, fast and athletic.

Look it's not rocket science to figure out. The evidence is right in front of you.

Why are most of the players in the NBA black?
Why are the most explosive players in the NBA predominantly black?
Why are most of the NFL wide receivers and running backs black?
Why are the good combi quarterbacks who can both pass and run black, while the regular quarterbacks who are best only throwing the ball white?
Why are the fastest guys in baseball mostly black?
Why is there only 1 white guy in the world right now who can run 100meters in less than 10 seconds, while there's a handful of black guys who can do it?

In the last few years there has been one guy who's very athletic that have gone from Europe to the NBA, Serge Ibaka, where does he originally come from? Africa...

Last year my team faced a select team form the southern region of England, they where all pretty athletic, strong and fast. But who was the biggest and most athletic of them all, their 1 black guy...

If both races where equal in athletic ability you'd basically have a majority of white US players because there's a majority of white people in the US, so the talent pool of white players good enough for the NBA would be way bigger.

But that's not the way it is, no the way it is is that the best white players in the NBA comes from Europe, and that's because we have a better system to develop players in so the white guys can become skilled enough to compete with the more athletic dominant black players.

[Sakkreth]

I feel the same way too. Although I seen on some occasion the Lithuanian tries too hard to force a pass and lead to a turnover.

Anyway, the NBA has evolved into a league which puts more emphasis and spotlight on individual capabilities and performance. That's why our players aren't trained or rather, can't be trained to play like other international teams.

Team > Player

It's called Eitutavicius or Lukauskis, both got kicked out of team after game vs USA, they've been tested much in the game and failed.

[50inchvertical]

Nobody said both races were equal, hell no 2 people are genetically equal; it's just not this outright thing that if you're black you're athletic automatically and if you aren't, then you aren't and nothing can be done about it.

If you can't jump high but want to, get in the weight room as well as on some plyos and you will jump high.

And yes black people do overwhelmingly pick up basketball and football more than other sports, especially the other ones you listed. Basketball is pretty much the sport of choice. Like you mention cycling and how I guess you think white people are genetically predisposed to being better at it, how many schools have a cycling program compared to schools with a basketball team?

Ask Chase Buddinger. He was born with the, what you consider to be a handicap in sports, of being white yet he wanted to be a great volleyball/basketball player and turned himself into just that. Ditto Joe Alexander.

Google Alex Maroko. He makes his millions training people who never think they can be athletic, to be athletic. Kelly Baggett is another guy to look at. Both are white as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_csSUFF_4U

I got a video of Alex hitting his head on the rim somewhere, I think it's in my email. I'll find it. He's 5'10 btw

Getting over the mental handicap is the first hurdle.

If you can't do something, you just aren't and haven't been working hard enough at it.

edit: and find videos of Javtokas before the car accident. He was every bit as athletic as Ibaka.

[Sakkreth]

Nobody said both races were equal, hell no 2 people are genetically equal; it's just not this outright thing that if you're black you're athletic automatically and if you aren't, then you aren't and nothing can be done about it.

If you can't jump high but want to, get in the weight room as well as on some plyos and you will jump high.

And yes black people do overwhelmingly pick up basketball and football more than other sports, especially the other ones you listed. Basketball is pretty much the sport of choice. Like you mention cycling and how I guess you think white people are genetically predisposed to being better at it, how many schools have a cycling program compared to schools with a basketball team?

Ask Chase Buddinger. He was born with the, what you consider to be a handicap in sports, of being white yet he wanted to be a great volleyball/basketball player and turned himself into just that. Ditto Joe Alexander.

Google Alex Maroko. He makes his millions training people who never think they can be athletic, to be athletic. Kelly Baggett is another guy to look at. Both are white as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_csSUFF_4U

I got a video of Alex hitting his head on the rim somewhere, I think it's in my email. I'll find it. He's 5'10 btw

Getting over the mental handicap is the first hurdle.

If you can't do something, you just aren't and haven't been working hard enough at it.

edit: and find videos of Javtokas before the car accident. He was every bit as athletic as Ibaka.

Well, i partially agree. But still most black people are more athletic than white while part of whites are more athletic than blacks with same amount of workout. It's genitical, whites can be more athletic than balcks, but it's more often opposite. For example could u say that some random skiny dude could get more athletical than LeBron if he did atleast bit more workout than Lebron did ? I'd say no.

I don't need videos of Javtokas, i've seen him Live so many times including record 12ft Dunk :banana:

[ZenMaster]

Nobody said both races were equal, hell no 2 people are genetically equal; it's just not this outright thing that if you're black you're athletic automatically and if you aren't, then you aren't and nothing can be done about it.

If you can't jump high but want to, get in the weight room as well as on some plyos and you will jump high.

And yes black people do overwhelmingly pick up basketball and football more than other sports, especially the other ones you listed. Basketball is pretty much the sport of choice. Like you mention cycling and how I guess you think white people are genetically predisposed to being better at it, how many schools have a cycling program compared to schools with a basketball team?

Ask Chase Buddinger. He was born with the, what you consider to be a handicap in sports, of being white yet he wanted to be a great volleyball/basketball player and turned himself into just that. Ditto Joe Alexander.

Google Alex Maroko. He makes his millions training people who never think they can be athletic, to be athletic. Kelly Baggett is another guy to look at. Both are white as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_csSUFF_4U

I got a video of Alex hitting his head on the rim somewhere, I think it's in my email. I'll find it. He's 5'10 btw

Getting over the mental handicap is the first hurdle.

If you can't do something, you just aren't and haven't been working hard enough at it.

edit: and find videos of Javtokas before the car accident. He was every bit as athletic as Ibaka.


Your arguments are bad because you only mention specific players. Like Chase Buddinger.

Of course there are always exceptions. But this argument is in the dominant figures of the numbers. Like the NBA and the NFL has to be around like 85% black.

You could also find a stiff black guy and it still wouldn't fit your argument because there will always be exceptions and I'm still talking about the majority.

Majority of the NBA is black, majority of the NFL is black and these are sports where explosiveness is dominant. Same thing with short distance running, the majority of winners in these runs are also black.

And I'm not saying that you can't train yourself up to be a better athlete and become more athletic. Of course you can, but I couldn't have trained myself up to having NBA level athleticism, I promise you no matter how hard I would have trained it wouldn't have been possible.

Also it's not just about the choice of sports, in the NCAA there are plenty of white players on D1 level, yet most of these guys don't get drafted even though they've still had all the same possibilities of their black counterparts.
Again you'll probably go and mention the exception, but fact is the majority of successful D1 players are black, just like in the NBA.

You try to mention cycling as an example that it's because of the choice of sports.
Well cycling in the US is simply not big, that has a lot to do with the culture, just like with soccer.
Yet in athletics the majority of the best contestants are black, and I'm pretty sure almost every HS and college in mid-west has an athletic program where most of the guys are white.

Once again, the evidence is literally right there in front of you.

[ZenMaster]

I'd like someone from the guys who's neg repped me to come up with a decent explanation to why blacks dominate sports where explosiveness is key.

I can't believe people are this blind to the reality of the difference in body genetics between blacks and whites.

It's not a bad thing, whites are dominant in other sports. But just because we're on a basketball board talking basketball doesn't mean that talking body genetics is racist.

I just want to know why there isn't even a single dominant(all star) white player in the NBA who's dominance mainly comes from his athleticism?

[joe]

USA played much better team ball today against Spain. Was good to see.

A lot of people are saying "sure the US players are taking contested jumpers off one on one moves.. but they're still hitting those shots and still winning, so it's okay."

However, my whole point was that if they were matched against competition with similar athleticism, they'd lose.

Like, I could play my 10 year old cousin in basketball and win by taking bad shots all day. But if I try the same against someone my age/my size I'll lose. Just because I win doesn't mean I'm playing a good style.

And as someone pointed out, it really does break down to the emphasis on individualism in our culture. Great point.

Anyone else noticing how short the commercials have been? There's like 3 commercials per time-out and that's it. No TV timeouts. Man, I like watching FIBA 10x more than watching the NBA.

Less commercials...
No superstar calls..
More physical defense..
Traveling is actually enforced..

Can't wait for Wednesdays game against Greece!

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Most real basketball fans only watch FIBA, NCAA and Euroleague. Hardly any serious basketball fans even care about the NBA anymore.
Myself, I've gotten to the point where I can almost only watch the Finals, because everything else in the NBA is such crap.

Even then sometimes the Finals are mediocre basketball. But the last one was great though.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

If you look at a lot of international players it doesn't look as if they put much work in their physiques. Even when they get to the league they aren't as strong as they need to be.

My point was that all of it [physicality] isn't due to your race/color it's due to hard work.

My belief is that more foreigners would be able to play "NBA brand ball" if they hit the weights more.

In case you didn't know.........training methods in Europe are far more advanced than the ones in the NBA, including diets. Soccer clubs have invested insane money on this and they have the most advanced training and diets in pro clubs in Europe.

You can brag all you want to about the NBA and its training methods, but most NBA players break down and become useless past age 30. Or maybe that never occurred to you?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

USA may not play together like a complete team like some FIBA contenders like Spain or Argentina but they are for sure contenders. USA doesnt have team chemistry like those teams but they will make up for it by effort, speed and defense.

USA has been a completely different brand of basketball for several years now apart from the contenders of FIBA/Olympic tournaments. And a new team for USA is just not going to magically form into a FIBA team after a month of playing together. Why do we still criticize them using this old ass 4-5 year old logic? i do not know. It may be an inferior 'brand' but its still an effective 'brand'. Who cares how good a team looks by crisp passing and chemistry, if you can get fcuking shit done. Outside of 04 and 06 when they didnt get gold and got bronze instead, USA has been successful everytime in FIBA play. USA is just going to try to win everytime playing their style. its the only style they know how to play.

They lost in 2002 also.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

It's ignorant not to believe it has a great deal to do with body genetics. There's plenty of weightlifting done on European basketball teams.

What about all the great white players from the US, where are they?
Doesn't white Americans lift weights as much as the black ones? Don't they put as much overall work in as the black guys?
Are the white players in the US not as good as the black ones? Why is that?
Is it because of the great inner city basketball programs that the US consists mostly of black players?
Why are the best white players in the NBA from Europe?
Where are your white American 7-footers who's got skill like Nowitzki and Pau? Surely there must be some big white players who have talent and have the time to hit the weight rooms as much as the black American players? Or doesn't the American youth development system work for white players? If so, why not?

Because you moron...........in the US every white kid is told "you cannot play basketball, it is only a black man's game".

Every black kid in the US is told, "you can play basketball, it's your game, and all white guys suck at basketball".

[niko]

Once again, what has it got to do with black or white in the first place? The fact that you brought up race at all is my point. You love looking at everything in black and white.

Your opinions don't hurt my feelings, its just the fact you make everything about race (it doesn't have to be racist) and you look stupid because of it.

Props. This discussion is so stupid and circular. There are a few people on this board who automatically jump on race anytime they can, and i applaud someone calling them out because of it. And those of you who do, and get called on it, have you ever thought that possibly you might be in the wrong for doing it, and that's why you are being called out? Or is that sort of thinking beyond everyone?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

I'm not here to argue the topic you seem to want to discuss.

My point is that Euro players don't lift as much as American ones....if they do I don't see the results on the court.

Euroleague teams lift weights. What they don't do is take steroids. I think you are confusing the too.

[niko]

Most real basketball fans only watch FIBA, NCAA and Euroleague. Hardly any serious basketball fans even care about the NBA anymore.
Myself, I've gotten to the point where I can almost only watch the Finals, because everything else in the NBA is such crap.

Even then sometimes the Finals are mediocre basketball. But the last one was great though.

I guess the players you look up to in the euroleauge count as non serious basketball fans.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

They do [from my knowledge].

Athleticism is more than just running and jumping though.

Most euro players that come over here are weak by NBA standards and that can be simply solved with a good weight training program.

I'm not saying the players in question will run like Wall and jump like prime VC but the gap in athleticism would shrink.

Seriously...........WTF is wrong with you?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

If they do, where are all the great white US players? In the US they're going through the same training as black US players, so why are the best players in the US black? Why is there a gap in the overall athleticism between white and black US players when they are in the same system with the same training and en equal opportunity to lift weights?

Your racism is a bit much.....even for this forum.

[ZenMaster]

Because you moron...........in the US every white kid is told "you cannot play basketball, it is only a black man's game".

Every black kid in the US is told, "you can play basketball, it's your game, and all white guys suck at basketball".

lol what? "Every kid gets told", how do you even come up with this stuff...?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

But how about the European players who come to the NBA? Granted there's Manu who surprises everybody with a jam now and then, but then guys like Nowitzki, Nash (if he can be counted), Scola, Peja. I have never noticed those guys developing athletically.

Are you actually saying that those are athletic players by Euroleague standards? Other than Manu, every guy you mention is well below average athletic level in the Euroleague.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The new rules were the worst thing to happen to the Nba

I will say this.

Stern was the worst thing to ever happen to the NBA. Stern's new rules were the second worst thing to ever happen to it.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Do you seriously make everything a black and white thing?

The board is full of racists, unfortunately.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

The difference between us and the other teams in the tournament is two
1) The international game is different, and emphasizes shooting and spreading the floor. It's been a long time since american basketball emphasized shooting. That hurts. We don't play that style. If we were having an NBA rules tournament we'd cruise.
2) We throw together our team on a whim. These European teams have guys who have come up playing together on national teams for years upon years. if you don't think that's a big deal you clearly never played any ball that was even remotely semi-competitive.

That's all.

This is pretty much a myth and yet you keep stating it over and over. Nice job.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Exactly. So if someone likes fundamental ball better than the way the brothers play ball that's their right which was my original point.


You are a freaking moron.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

international teams do NOT play better brand of ball. they play like this bc when they play team usa its the only way they can stay close by slowing the game down and running 26 screens and pick an rolls per possession. france and lithuania have not had a guard who can handle the ball and team usa has taken advantage of tht and made them pay. the US team has not peaked yet in the tourny they will be ok. idk maybe its just me but i have yet to be "worried" bout any of these teams. but they will have to play better tonight when they play spain bc they hav much more firepower.

Hey genius.....France and Lithuania played the games without a point guard. Do you understand that? No point guards on either team.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

My god, the level of iliteracy , political-correctness and stupidity in this forum is off the charts. How can you possibly deny the genetical difference between races??? COME ON GUYS! are you dumb or what?? so basically white american players dont like basketball and thats why they are mostly black , right? so basically blacks dont like swimming and thats why ALL the swimmers are white, right ? so blacks dont like ciclying and thats why all the cyclists are white.... GENS is the difference-maker. each race has different characteristics and the strength , size and athleticism is something natural in blacks. Arguing this is beyond stupid. its like saying the earth is squared.


what is just funny is that when it comes to discuss obvious and blatant facts related to races and genders some people freak out and dont even think about whats been discussed. the point of Zenmaster is more than appropriate and the idea has been clearly laid out. so based on this, "gens equality" that some of you preach, asians and norther europeans are the same height and strength, right? ofcourse, there are always exceptions (like Yao) but the general rule is objectively undeniable

Hey you stupid a-hole if you are arguing that RACIST comments being made by Zen and Go Getter here are acceptable, like "blacks are genetically superior athletes to whites" and you are claiming this is just a fact...........

how would you like it if someone started a thread here titled........


International Teams are Smarter than Team USA Because Whites Are Smarter Than Blacks".........

EVERY study that has EVER been done shows that whites have a higher IQ than blacks do. So Mr. genius, would such a topic be allowed here? Would it be accepted here? Would the mods openly accept it here?

Why don't you grow the hell up.

[niko]

This is pretty much a myth and yet you keep stating it over and over. Nice job.

How so? The international teams have a much greater continuity of rosters for most countries than the US. How many teams have almost universal turnover from olympics to WC like the US did? We threw together a team. It's not an excuse, you lose and you lose. But tell me how many other teams were thrown together for this like ours was?

and i didnt repeat shit OVER AND OVER, thats you. I posted on this maybe twice total. I could give a flying shit about the WC, i guarantee im not posting anything over and over about it.

[ZenMaster]

Your racism is a bit much.....even for this forum.

You don't know what racism is.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

I guess the players you look up to in the euroleauge count as non serious basketball fans.

LMFAO.............

How many times has it been proven in this forum that the NBA is hardly even shown on TV in Europe. It's hard as hell to see it even if you wanted to. Wake the hell up. You criticized the guys in here that are racist (and I applaud you for that)....yet you yourself are such a huge xenophobe and that is not much better.

What is even worse is that you accuse and label others as xenophobes, when they are not. IMHO, your way of thinking is even more dangerous than the racist way of thinking.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

lol what? "Every kid gets told", how do you even come up with this stuff...?

I will just take it for a fact that your IQ is around 80 and leave it at that.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

How so? The international teams have a much greater continuity of rosters for most countries than the US. How many teams have almost universal turnover from olympics to WC like the US did? We threw together a team. It's not an excuse, you lose and you lose. But tell me how many other teams were thrown together for this like ours was?

and i didnt repeat shit OVER AND OVER, thats you. I posted on this maybe twice total. I could give a flying shit about the WC, i guarantee im not posting anything over and over about it.

Look, if you refuse to even make the attempt to find out facts then what is the point in discussing with you?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

You don't know what racism is.

I know that you are an idiot.

[niko]

LMFAO.............

How many times has it been proven in this forum that the NBA is hardly even shown on TV in Europe. It's hard as hell to see it even if you wanted to. Wake the hell up. You criticized the guys in here that are racist (and I applaud you for that)....yet you yourself are such a huge xenophobe and that is not much better.

What is even worse is that you accuse and label others as xenophobes, when they are not. IMHO, your way of thinking is even more dangerous than the racist way of thinking.

Dude, go **** yourself. Liking or not liking european basketball is not the litmus test for racism. And again, you are generalizing against me like i post 7,000 things against you. I do not. That is not me. Do not get so pissy with me because you lose track of who you are arguing against.

I've seen many interviews with players from europe when asked about the nba, who praise it to high heaven. THAT was my point.

And again, don't call me racist - you don't know me dude. I'm somewhat dark skinned (i', puerto rican), and my child is mixed spanish/asian. I grew up all around black and spanish people almost 100% (in sunset park) and i spent pretty much all my college years traveling hear and there. and for some reason, when people disrespect my sports team (or country) i've NEVER ever even thought "racist!" as a retort. But perhaps i'm not a ****ing retard like you.

You know, i've always been polite with you pretty much, i actually try to listen to what you say, and yet you always call me a name because you are arguing with other people. SO i'm done with you - you are a dumb ****ing retarded e-tough who claims racism anytime you'd need to spend more than ten seconds crafting an argument.

And seriously a big **** YOU to the board and the mods who let you call people racist over and over and never do anything. I'm sorry, that's not right.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Dude, go **** yourself. Liking or not liking european basketball is not the litmus test for racism. And again, you are generalizing against me like i post 7,000 things against you. I do not. That is not me. Do not get so pissy with me because you lose track of who you are arguing against.

I've seen many interviews with players from europe when asked about the nba, who praise it to high heaven. THAT was my point.

And again, don't call me racist - you don't know me dude. I'm somewhat dark skinned (i', puerto rican), and my child is mixed spanish/asian. I grew up all around black and spanish people almost 100% (in sunset park) and i spent pretty much all my college years traveling hear and there. and for some reason, when people disrespect my sports team (or country) i've NEVER ever even thought "racist!" as a retort. But perhaps i'm not a ****ing retard like you.

You know, i've always been polite with you pretty much, i actually try to listen to what you say, and yet you always call me a name because you are arguing with other people. SO i'm done with you - you are a dumb ****ing retarded e-tough who claims racism anytime you'd need to spend more than ten seconds crafting an argument.

And seriously a big **** YOU to the board and the mods who let you call people racist over and over and never do anything. I'm sorry, that's not right.

If you cannot separate NBA marketing from reality, then I have no need to argue this with you. Maybe you are just too stupid to form any thoughts of your own.

[ZenMaster]

I know that you are an idiot.

Bla bla bla

[niko]

If you cannot separate NBA marketing from reality, then I have no need to argue this with you. Maybe you are just too stupid to form any thoughts of your own.

What exactly did you respond to? i told you to **** off. IS that a new nba marketing campaign?

NBA, **** OFF!!!

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Bla bla bla

Whites are smarter than blacks................

Please open up that thread. Should be perfectly acceptable here, based on your logic......

blacks are genetically superior to whites........

"hey it's just a fact, I'm no racist"


Yep, "whites are smarter than blacks"

Just a fact, no racism here.........

[Peteballa]

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/4/45270/1253930-this_thread_again_super.jpg

[Lakas Fan Yo]

What exactly did you respond to? i told you to **** off. IS that a new nba marketing campaign?

NBA, **** OFF!!!

You stated two straight posts that were lies, that were wrong, that were filled with errors, and that were pure 100% NBA marketing gimmicks. If you want me to take you seriously, learn how to separate a marketing gimmick, from an actual fact.

[niko]

You stated two straight posts that were lies, that were wrong, that were filled with errors, and that were pure 100% NBA marketing gimmicks. If you want me to take you seriously, learn how to separate a marketing gimmick, from an actual fact.

Dude, you called me racist. i'm not racist. call me an idiot who knows nothing about nothing, and we can argue basketball. YOU CALLED ME RACIST. WTF is wrong with you. You really have mental issues.

[chopchop20]

If the Americans didn't have an athletic advantage over these squads, they'd be getting blown out of the building.

The game against Lithuania sparked these thoughts in me, but make no mistake about it.. I've felt this way for a while. I should also mention that I'm a Yank myself (born and raised in upstate New York). It's been over the course of several international competitions that I've come to this conclusion (which isn't hard to see)..

While the USA players are better individually (and they are), they seem to be entirely lacking in the fundamental concept of moving the ball. Of finding the open man.

Other countries are constantly looking to pass. The ball finds its way to cutters and open shooters. In contrast, the Americans over dribble for one-on-one moves that lead to contested jumpers.

I found myself rooting for Lithuania because the Americans are maddening to watch. To see the Lithuanian's make brilliant, crisp passes and smart decisions with the ball, immediately followed by a Gay/Durant/Rose/etc taking 10 dribbles then pulling up for 3... I mean, rooting for the other side was something I couldn't help but do.

Anyone else feeling the same?

Why do you keep watching the NBA?
Why are you in the NBA section of this forum :confusedshrug:

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Dude, you called me racist. i'm not racist. call me an idiot who knows nothing about nothing, and we can argue basketball. YOU CALLED ME RACIST. WTF is wrong with you. You really have mental issues.

No I did not. I said you are a xenophobe. And you are a xenophobe.

[niko]

No I did not. I said you are a xenophobe. And you are a xenophobe.

:blah :blah xenophone:blah :blah racist thinking:blah :blah rubio sucks:blah :blah

i hope once you hit puberty you become slightly less retarded. And not because you are european, that has nothing to do with it. its 100% only due to the fact that you have some sort of faulty genes in your family.

[ZenMaster]

As a race, blacks have more muscle mass, especially in the lower back, glutes and thighs. But there is more to that explanation also. There are two types of muscle fiber "slow twitch" and "fast twitch". Slow twitch fibers are slower but are better for endurance activities. Fast Twitch fibers activate quickly and are good for jumping and sprinting, but are not good for endurance activities. The average person has a 50/50 mix of fast and slow twitch muscle fibers in their body, but of course this ratio will vary from individual to individual, depending on genetics, and the effects of long term training.
Blacks of West African descent have predominantly fast twitch fibers in their body. The body composition of fast twitch fibers in this group is as much as 90% to even 100% fast twitch fibers. Ergo, this is why so many blacks are great jumpers and sprinters.
But what about the Kenyan and Ethiopian long distance runners you may ask? These blacks have a good deal of muscle mass as well, and long legs. But these blacks are of East African descent and do not have the predominantly fast twitch fibers in their body as the blacks of West African descent. And because of their lifestyle growing up in East Africa (long distance running, high grain and cereal diet) have developed slow twitch endurance fibers as a long term result of their lifestyle and training.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_are_black_people_naturally_athletic


Someone here should write answers.com and tell them that they're racist.


I am convinced they are superior athletically for one reason...

Because in the history of man, no white individual has ever broken the 10 second barrier in running the 100 meter sprint, and at least 30 blacks have.

Why is this important at all?

Because, simply put, it's the only empirical evidence of any merit that there is any difference whatsoever in races. In every other field, regardless of whether whites or blacks dominate, the roots of the difference in the races can be linked back to cultural and sociological reasons. Again, the likelihood is that blacks don't make up a significant portion of the MMA winners because young black men are more likely to pick up football than wrestling, for example. Most MMA fighters who are great are experts in different martial arts styles and have been engaged, in some form or another, in MMA - related activities (karate, jiu - jitsu, wrestling, etc) since before legal adulthood. Fedor has been grappling since he was 10. Huges wrestled before adulthood. And on and on. Of course whites are more prevalent in these sports - blacks don't even play them.

Ok, so having said that, no one can deny that we've all been running since we've been 6 or 7 or so. Also, no one can deny that many, many young white men AND young black men take up sprinting in some form or another - whether track in field, soccer, basketball, etc.

For all intents and purposes, there is NO OTHER REASON for no white male to have ever break this record except for that blacks are simply (slightly) genetically superior.

None.

There have been many, many thousands of individuals who have, as amateur and/or professional sprinters gone against this record and come up short - both white and black - in the last 100 years.

Unlike in MMA and powerlifting for black males, clearly, thousands of white males ALL OVER THE WORLD every year pick up sprinting through track and field, and many thousands more indirectly through basketball, football, soccer, etc.

MANY thousands have devoted hundreds of hours and more to training and preparing to run the 100m dash as quickly as possible. And yet none have ever broken the 10 second barrier. Not one.


http://www.**********.org/forum/t618441/

Last one is a bit old, I know a French guy got just under 10s a while ago, but still.

[ZenMaster]

Whites are smarter than blacks................

Please open up that thread. Should be perfectly acceptable here, based on your logic......

blacks are genetically superior to whites........

"hey it's just a fact, I'm no racist"


Yep, "whites are smarter than blacks"

Just a fact, no racism here.........

No you're wrong, saying blacks have more athletic genes is like saying "Chinese people are shorter than whites".. Would you also consider that racist?

[joe]

Why do you keep watching the NBA?
Why are you in the NBA section of this forum :confusedshrug:

I love the NBA because basketball is my favorite sport and I like to watch the best players. And not every team plays in this Americanized, individual way.

My favorite team is the Suns. Go figure.

I do like to watch the best superstars as well. I love to watch Lebron, Wade, Kobe and the like play.

I just wish overall the players played with more teamwork and passing in mind.

[mrhoopfan]

Int'l basketball is ugly to watch at times. The 2004 Olympic finals was ATROCIOUS to watch. And her's a stat for the 2008 Olympics:

Total Assists. USA- 150( 8 games played) Spain- 111 (8 games played)
Total turnovers: USA- 110 Spain- 122

Please stop the US bashing!!!!

[Go Getter]

In case you didn't know.........training methods in Europe are far more advanced than the ones in the NBA, including diets. Soccer clubs have invested insane money on this and they have the most advanced training and diets in pro clubs in Europe.

You can brag all you want to about the NBA and its training methods, but most NBA players break down and become useless past age 30. Or maybe that never occurred to you?

If training is so advanced in Europe then why are American basketball players clearly better conditioned than Europeans?

Besides Wade leading his team in the finals when has a under 30 guy been the man on a finals team?

Kobe, PP, Ray Allen, KG, Artest, worthless?

Stop your lies.

[TheLogo]

Why is ZenMaster not banned yet?

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Why is ZenMaster not banned yet?

This forum seems to like racism.

[DStebb716]

No, they don't. The better brand of basketball is the winning brand of basketball, and last time I checked that's what we do. This is the typical American thinking, never satisfied so even when we win people ahve to find a way to complain and bash our own people.

[Go Getter]

No, they don't. The better brand of basketball is the winning brand of basketball, and last time I checked that's what we do. This is the typical American thinking, never satisfied so even when we win people ahve to find a way to complain and bash our own people.
:cheers:

[dwadefan11]

Some of this stuff is idiotic, if you think nba players dont have fundamentals like the rest of the world, let me show you.

Rose Rondo Billups: Best ballhandlers in the world, quick strong dribblers with tons of moves

Curry, Eric Gordon, Kevin Durant, Billups: Some of the best shooters in this tournament, if not the best

Billups: Not much athletiscm, just strong, a better version of any euro point guard

Kevin Love, Odom: Great position rebounders

Rose, Rondo, Westbrook: Best defense in tournament by far

I'll highlight more NBA players:

Kobe: Most fundamental player in the game

D-Wade: Showed in olympics, best bank shot in the world

Carmelo: Best Shot

CP3, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd: Best passers/ ball handlers

Ray Allen: Best shot in world

We're athletic, but it doesnt end there, were also very skilled in some ways

[niko]

This forum seems to like racism.
no, its because morons like you cry racism, so they think its two morons arguing so they do nothing.

[CeltsGarlic]

Some of this stuff is idiotic, if you think nba players dont have fundamentals like the rest of the world, let me show you.

Rose Rondo Billups: Best ballhandlers in the world, quick strong dribblers with tons of moves

Curry, Eric Gordon, Kevin Durant, Billups: Some of the best shooters in this tournament, if not the best

Billups: Not much athletiscm, just strong, a better version of any euro point guard

Kevin Love, Odom: Great position rebounders

Rose, Rondo, Westbrook: Best defense in tournament by far

I'll highlight more NBA players:

Kobe: Most fundamental player in the game

D-Wade: Showed in olympics, best bank shot in the world

Carmelo: Best Shot

CP3, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd: Best passers/ ball handlers

Ray Allen: Best shot in world

We're athletic, but it doesnt end there, were also very skilled in some ways

Not much of international basketball fan, do you?

[Leviathon1121]

Why is ZenMaster not banned yet?

What is even worse then racism are the people, like yourself, who seem to like to try and point out racism at any given opportunity, even when there clearly is none.

It is basic, proven science, that Zen is talking about here, not racism. Having a genetic predisposition towards a high percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers does give blacks an advantage in certain sports. Of course, they have to work just as hard as anyone else to keep that advantage on a professional level.

You people crying racism are just pathetic.

[fatboy11]

No, they don't. The better brand of basketball is the winning brand of basketball, and last time I checked that's what we do. This is the typical American thinking, never satisfied so even when we win people ahve to find a way to complain and bash our own people.That's one way to look at it, but honestly, they play a much better brand of basketball internationally. They just don't have the athleticism we do. They're fundamentals are much, much better. That's what the OP means. And he's correct.

Call it a "bash" or what have you, but it's true. We lost our way fundamentally a long, long time ago. It's clear to see that this team relies on it's athleticism, not it's basketball fundamentals. Our defense is really good, but I attribute that very much to our athleticism. All goes back to our athleticism.

Now, I'm not saying we don't have players that are fundamentally sound. I'm not saying that at all. But your average international team is playing a much more fundamentally sound, team game than your average NBA team. I think that's pretty clear. Your average NBA is more talented and athletic. That is the great divide. But in terms of playing the game as it's supposed to be played, the international teams are doing it better than us.

And I think it cocky to strut around here talking about "winning brand of basketball". Hey, guy. We don't have LeBron, Kobe, Wade, etc. out there. We're far from a sure thing to get this World Championship thing locked down. We've got a lot to prove. We won by one point yesterday.

[HylianNightmare]

If the Americans didn't have an athletic advantage over these squads, they'd be getting blown out of the building.


but they do.
people need to stop complaining about the US style of play as compared to international team style, the US is conforming to different rules and still winning, get over it.

[L.A. Jazz]

biggest weakness: every WC/ Olymcs a totally different roster
biggest strength: the USA can do this and still win

[fatboy11]

biggest weakness: every WC/ Olymcs a totally different roster
biggest strength: the USA can do this and still winThe last time we won the World Championships was when?

You guys are making us sound really, really arrogant and ignorant. For real. When we bring our A-Team, that's when we can just overpower these international teams. But when we don't, we don't win. Plain and simple. That goes for the Olympics, too. In 2004, we did not win the gold medal. I don't know if people realize this or if they just don't want to admit it.

You can't honestly list the fact that we have a different roster for the World Championships and still win as a strength because THAT HASN'T HAPPENED. You need to check yourself and some history.

[fatboy11]

but they do.
people need to stop complaining about the US style of play as compared to international team style, the US is conforming to different rules and still winning, get over it.Barely winning. Winning impressively. That doesn't alarm you? You honestly think we'll able to go in and win this tournament with the way we've been playing?

[Maga_1]

I read carefully all the posts, the discussion was good until the "race thing" came in.

I can't read anymore posts of the The Logo and Go Getter, it's way to hard to understand their points but they have some good points sometimes (rarely).

I'm hoping to the WC starts to see what excuses will some US fans tell if they lost (if they lost) any game.

[Maga_1]

The thing about the rules.
Why most of the world play this type of rules and US are always complaining about this?
If you don't like it, change it .. and play the rules that most of the world play. Don't try to be different or to adapt the game.

[FireMcFailPlease]

If the Americans didn't have an athletic advantage over these squads, they'd be getting blown out of the building.

The game against Lithuania sparked these thoughts in me, but make no mistake about it.. I've felt this way for a while. I should also mention that I'm a Yank myself (born and raised in upstate New York). It's been over the course of several international competitions that I've come to this conclusion (which isn't hard to see)..

While the USA players are better individually (and they are), they seem to be entirely lacking in the fundamental concept of moving the ball. Of finding the open man.

Other countries are constantly looking to pass. The ball finds its way to cutters and open shooters. In contrast, the Americans over dribble for one-on-one moves that lead to contested jumpers.

I found myself rooting for Lithuania because the Americans are maddening to watch. To see the Lithuanian's make brilliant, crisp passes and smart decisions with the ball, immediately followed by a Gay/Durant/Rose/etc taking 10 dribbles then pulling up for 3... I mean, rooting for the other side was something I couldn't help but do.

Anyone else feeling the same?
if my aunt had a dick, she'd be my uncle.

[The_Yearning]

if my aunt had a dick, she'd be my uncle.

If you had any common sense, you'd know that is already the case.

[mrhoopfan]

Again look at the stats for the 2008 Olympics:

Total Assists. USA- 150( 8 games played) Spain- 111 (8 games played)
Total turnovers: USA- 110 Spain- 122

Spain averaged 14 assists a game and a shade over 15 turnovers..........:facepalm

[L.A. Jazz]

The last time we won the World Championships was when?

you are right. i correct myself by saying "contend" instead of "win".

and i am European, not american. i dont make you sound arrogant. :oldlol:

[fatboy11]

you are right. i correct myself by saying "contend" instead of "win".

and i am European, not american. i dont make you sound arrogant. :oldlol:Point still stands. There are a number of Americans here saying "we" still win when we don't.

[FireMcFailPlease]

If you had any common sense, you'd know that is already the case.
so ur saying uve seen my aunt/uncles dick? Keep that ish to urself brah

[FireMcFailPlease]

Point still stands. There are a number of Americans here saying "we" still win when we don't.
who cares about the wbc's?

[fatboy11]

who cares about the wbc's?Irrelevant. It doesn't matter who cares. Those guys on the court are still going out there to try to win. That's the point. And if they don't, well........

This team we've fielded for this tournament is, by far, the most talented team in the field. There's no question. I just don't think it can be said that it's the best team in the field. That's taking into consideration that other countries don't have some of their top guys as well.

We've still lost recently in the Olympics. So let's not act like we come to play "when it matters" because we dropped the ball there, too. What is it with you guys? Just swallow your pride and admit that we aren't that great in a FIBA setting if we don't send our A-list players. The game's changed. There are other countries playing a better brand/style of basketball than us. They just aren't as athletic. I feel that FIBA competition really exposes the fact that Americans, on average, aren't nearly as fundamentally sound as they used to be.

[joe]

I don't believe my original post was any sort of attack on the Americans fundamentals in general.. just their play style in regards to moving the ball, finding the open man, etc..

Sure Americans have great ball handling, which is a fundamental skill. But they use it for unfundamental strategy, like dribbling around the court for 10 minutes before taking a fade-away.

I've been watching NBA classic games and I'm starting to lose interest.. I love the league but I hate the way they operate. Why can't they call traveling correctly? Why do superstars get calls? How come every single time a player drives and doesn't get a call, he looks at the referee with his hands up?

It all takes away from what is easily the most talented basketball league in the world.

It doesn't help that the games move at a snails pace. 48 minutes is way too much time, and the constant free throws drive me crazy. The icing on the cake is the constant commercials, with 6-7 commercials for every time out. In these FIBA games there's 3 commercials per time out... and the game's right back on.

And that's before we talk about TV timeouts.

[FireMcFailPlease]

probably explains why the entire staff are from colleges. I'm confident team usa won't lose a game. Now and definitely not in 2012. So to say the brand of international ball is better than what were used to is insane...and the only reason why we win vs 6'4 white dudes is cause of athletecism is retarded.

I think the foreigners on ish just don't like the us just like the fiba refs bbecause were just that damn stacked every year

[fatboy11]

probably explains why the entire staff are from colleges. I'm confident team usa won't lose a game. Now and definitely not in 2012. So to say the brand of international ball is better than what were used to is insane...and the only reason why we win vs 6'4 white dudes is cause of athletecism is retarded.

I think the foreigners on ish just don't like the us just like the fiba refs bbecause were just that damn stacked every yearAnd to act like that's our only competition is retarded. I don't know of many countries that are fielding teams like that anymore.

[mrhoopfan]

I don't believe my original post was any sort of attack on the Americans fundamentals in general.. just their play style in regards to moving the ball, finding the open man, etc..

Sure Americans have great ball handling, which is a fundamental skill. But they use it for unfundamental strategy, like dribbling around the court for 10 minutes before taking a fade-away.

I've been watching NBA classic games and I'm starting to lose interest.. I love the league but I hate the way they operate. Why can't they call traveling correctly? Why do superstars get calls? How come every single time a player drives and doesn't get a call, he looks at the referee with his hands up?

It all takes away from what is easily the most talented basketball league in the world.

It doesn't help that the games move at a snails pace. 48 minutes is way too much time, and the constant free throws drive me crazy. The icing on the cake is the constant commercials, with 6-7 commercials for every time out. In these FIBA games there's 3 commercials per time out... and the game's right back on.

And that's before we talk about TV timeouts.


USA team lead the 2008 Olympics in assists

[LBJ_MVP09]

What is even worse then racism are the people, like yourself, who seem to like to try and point out racism at any given opportunity, even when there clearly is none.

It is basic, proven science, that Zen is talking about here, not racism. Having a genetic predisposition towards a high percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers does give blacks an advantage in certain sports. Of course, they have to work just as hard as anyone else to keep that advantage on a professional level.

You people crying racism are just pathetic.


This post COMPLETELY owns all of the people calling other people racist. While one can enhance their explosive capabilities (and it's not just lifting weights you retards), one can only peak so high, as people are born with a certain number of fast twitch muscle fibers. There is a lot of research that states that african americans have more fast twitch muscle fibers on average. Is every black guy more athletic than every white guy? Nope. Can white people be explosive too? Yup. But to say the predominantly white european players could "just hit the weights" to catch up to the USA's athletic dominance is so damn close-minded and frustrating to read.

[Papaya Petee]

I have been saying this for years and if it wasn't for the Americans athleticisim and talent they get beat everytime. Fundamentals and passing the ball doens't exist with USA basketball, not since '92 and in Beijing.

I blame Kobe Bryant for not being on the team. If he and Kidd was on the team we would sing a different tune. Kobe is the last of a dying breed, who played in the 90's, who also possess man fundamental skills.

This USA team is young and if Kobe was on the team, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He is the only player that can adjust his game to international play. 4th quarter of the gold medal game comes to mind.

Hopefully, Kobe will be on the team, if not, just his presence there would do wonders for this young team.

Yes, because Kobe is known for his PASSING abilities and NOT taking a fadeaway after 5-10 dribbles. :rolleyes:

[joe]

USA team lead the 2008 Olympics in assists

Those are good statistics to counter my argument but I still stand by what I said. From my view of the games, USA is much less inclined to move the ball around and find the open man than international teams.

And I'm not saying your statistics are bogus or anything, but think about this.. Stephon Marbury frequently averaged more assists than most other point guards.. did that make him a player you thought of as one to move the ball around and find the open man?

The same could be said for Allen Iverson, Stephie Franchise, or even Lebron. And while I think Lebron is a tremendous passer, making an incredible pass is much different than displaying a general attitude of wanting to move the ball and find the open guy.

[ZenMaster]

This post COMPLETELY owns all of the people calling other people racist. While one can enhance their explosive capabilities (and it's not just lifting weights you retards), one can only peak so high, as people are born with a certain number of fast twitch muscle fibers. There is a lot of research that states that african americans have more fast twitch muscle fibers on average. Is every black guy more athletic than every white guy? Nope. Can white people be explosive too? Yup. But to say the predominantly white european players could "just hit the weights" to catch up to the USA's athletic dominance is so damn close-minded and frustrating to read.

People just cry racism because they have no real counter argument. It's sad, but it is what it is.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

probably explains why the entire staff are from colleges. I'm confident team usa won't lose a game. Now and definitely not in 2012. So to say the brand of international ball is better than what were used to is insane...and the only reason why we win vs 6'4 white dudes is cause of athletecism is retarded.

I think the foreigners on ish just don't like the us just like the fiba refs bbecause were just that damn stacked every year

Another racist just outed himself.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

This post COMPLETELY owns all of the people calling other people racist. While one can enhance their explosive capabilities (and it's not just lifting weights you retards), one can only peak so high, as people are born with a certain number of fast twitch muscle fibers. There is a lot of research that states that african americans have more fast twitch muscle fibers on average. Is every black guy more athletic than every white guy? Nope. Can white people be explosive too? Yup. But to say the predominantly white european players could "just hit the weights" to catch up to the USA's athletic dominance is so damn close-minded and frustrating to read.

Hey racist, do you know what builds the fast twitch muscle fibers? Did you actually research why blacks are said to have more?

if you had you would be freaking embarrassed. Take your RACIST agenda elsewhere because it is insulting.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

People just cry racism because they have no real counter argument. It's sad, but it is what it is.

You should be banned.

[FireMcFailPlease]

Another racist just outed himself.
im white brah

[Lakas Fan Yo]

im white brah

You are racist.

[LBJ_MVP09]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16937962

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/305/5684/637

http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/Daily_Express_9_8_2000.htm

I also have taken many science classes in college and have a very strong understanding of anatomy/physiology. If this research is too lacking and my knowledge of anatomy is not enough, why don't you enlighten me rather than shouting racist? Unlike you I'm open-minded and willing to concede granted there is proof to your claims.

[MiseryCityTexas]

what ever happened to V-span???? i remember that one game where he came outta nowhere beasting on team usa. i was like damn, i wish he woulda did that shit when he was in a rockets uniform.:facepalm

[Lakas Fan Yo]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16937962

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/305/5684/637

http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/Daily_Express_9_8_2000.htm

I also have taken many science classes in college and have a very strong understanding of anatomy/physiology. If this research is too lacking and my knowledge of anatomy is not enough, why don't you enlighten me rather than shouting racist? Unlike you I'm open-minded and willing to concede granted there is proof to your claims.


You are not only a racist, you are also an overly educated moron.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

what ever happened to V-span???? i remember that one game where he came outta nowhere beasting on team usa. i was like damn, i wish he woulda did that shit when he was in a rockets uniform.:facepalm

His coach was also racist. He had back to back great games against USA "A" team and yet according to his idiot coach he could not even make an NBA game.

[LJJ]

http://i37.tinypic.com/2inigh.jpg

[john_d]

yes they do.

i surely hope so. cause white unathletic players beating nba stars just doesn't sound to good.

[ranger89]

Nobody said both races were equal, hell no 2 people are genetically equal; it's just not this outright thing that if you're black you're athletic automatically and if you aren't, then you aren't and nothing can be done about it.

If you can't jump high but want to, get in the weight room as well as on some plyos and you will jump high.

And yes black people do overwhelmingly pick up basketball and football more than other sports, especially the other ones you listed. Basketball is pretty much the sport of choice. Like you mention cycling and how I guess you think white people are genetically predisposed to being better at it, how many schools have a cycling program compared to schools with a basketball team?

Ask Chase Buddinger. He was born with the, what you consider to be a handicap in sports, of being white yet he wanted to be a great volleyball/basketball player and turned himself into just that. Ditto Joe Alexander.

Google Alex Maroko. He makes his millions training people who never think they can be athletic, to be athletic. Kelly Baggett is another guy to look at. Both are white as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_csSUFF_4U

I got a video of Alex hitting his head on the rim somewhere, I think it's in my email. I'll find it. He's 5'10 btw

Getting over the mental handicap is the first hurdle.

If you can't do something, you just aren't and haven't been working hard enough at it.

edit: and find videos of Javtokas before the car accident. He was every bit as athletic as Ibaka.

I agree, that steriotype kills most players from even beginning to work at it. There are examples of tons of white guys with huge verticals, look up Alan Barch Jr. on YouTube

And not that it matters, but that vid is of Taylor Allan, not Kelly Baggett. I'd like to see a video of Kelly but all there is is that picture.... Again, another white dude with a huge vert.

[50inchvertical]

I agree, that steriotype kills most players from even beginning to work at it. There are examples of tons of white guys with huge verticals, look up Alan Barch Jr. on YouTube

And not that it matters, but that vid is of Taylor Allan, not Kelly Baggett. I'd like to see a video of Kelly but all there is is that picture.... Again, another white dude with a huge vert.
I know who it is. I was mentioning Kelly in my list of white dudes with verticals who trained hard to attain them. And I never much cared for Kelly as a business man. He was a con artist. Luke Lowrey is too.

And the whole fast twitch slow twitch argument is so tired. They're not as mutually exclusive as people pretend. That's the reason somebody like Keon Clark with no visible muscle mass can have hops, just the same as someone like Ismail Muhammad who is all muscle. And frankly, those ESPN WOrld's Strongest Men dudes have higher vertical leaps than basketball players (average vertical is higher in the NFL than in the NBA too). They lack the athletic grace to do the types of things basketball players do because they don't train in such a way, but I've seen Dr Squat (who is a very old white man who squats like 1000lbs but plays no sports) off a pure vert jump over 4 ft in the air on stage, was damn near high enough to clear anybody standing near him. I just can't find that picture for shit anymore.

And so yes, the international guys could get into the weight room if they cared to not be 6'6 176lbs.

[LJJ]

I know who it is. I was mentioning Kelly in my list of white dudes with verticals who trained hard to attain them. And I never much cared for Kelly as a business man. He was a con artist. Luke Lowrey is too.

And the whole fast twitch slow twitch argument is so tired. They're not as mutually exclusive as people pretend. That's the reason somebody like Keon Clark with no visible muscle mass can have hops, just the same as someone like Ismail Muhammad who is all muscle. And frankly, those ESPN WOrld's Strongest Men dudes have higher vertical leaps than basketball players (average vertical is higher in the NFL than in the NBA too). They lack the athletic grace to do the types of things basketball players do because they don't train in such a way, but I've seen Dr Squat (who is a very old white man who squats like 1000lbs but plays no sports) off a pure vert jump over 4 ft in the air on stage, was damn near high enough to clear anybody standing near him. I just can't find that picture for shit anymore.

And so yes, the international guys could get into the weight room if they cared to not be 6'6 176lbs.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2inigh.jpg

[LJJ]

I know who it is. I was mentioning Kelly in my list of white dudes with verticals who trained hard to attain them. And I never much cared for Kelly as a business man. He was a con artist. Luke Lowrey is too.

And the whole fast twitch slow twitch argument is so tired. They're not as mutually exclusive as people pretend. That's the reason somebody like Keon Clark with no visible muscle mass can have hops, just the same as someone like Ismail Muhammad who is all muscle. And frankly, those ESPN WOrld's Strongest Men dudes have higher vertical leaps than basketball players (average vertical is higher in the NFL than in the NBA too). They lack the athletic grace to do the types of things basketball players do because they don't train in such a way, but I've seen Dr Squat (who is a very old white man who squats like 1000lbs but plays no sports) off a pure vert jump over 4 ft in the air on stage, was damn near high enough to clear anybody standing near him. I just can't find that picture for shit anymore.

And so yes, the international guys could get into the weight room if they cared to not be 6'6 176lbs.

I posted it just two posts above you, but I guess I'll post it again:

http://i37.tinypic.com/2inigh.jpg

But I guess white people just don't train for 100m sprint eh? That must be the reason.

[knightfall88]

I hate the NBA rules. Particularly the only way to defend perimeter players is to flop, and even that rarely works.

when FIBA comes along, I find it much more enjoyable than the NBA.

[Sakkreth]

Another difference is that we Lithuanians(not sure about other euro countires like spain) don't have that "first option", it's unecessary and only worse for team, instead that we have 7 first options. Even now my hometown team Zalgiris (which consists of 5 Lithuanian national team members of wcb2010) has no first option what so ever, there is 9-10 equal players who think how to help the team to win instead padding up triple doubles.

[3stars&aSun]

If the Americans didn't have an athletic advantage over these squads, they'd be getting blown out of the building.

The game against Lithuania sparked these thoughts in me, but make no mistake about it.. I've felt this way for a while. I should also mention that I'm a Yank myself (born and raised in upstate New York). It's been over the course of several international competitions that I've come to this conclusion (which isn't hard to see)..

While the USA players are better individually (and they are), they seem to be entirely lacking in the fundamental concept of moving the ball. Of finding the open man.

Other countries are constantly looking to pass. The ball finds its way to cutters and open shooters. In contrast, the Americans over dribble for one-on-one moves that lead to contested jumpers.

I found myself rooting for Lithuania because the Americans are maddening to watch. To see the Lithuanian's make brilliant, crisp passes and smart decisions with the ball, immediately followed by a Gay/Durant/Rose/etc taking 10 dribbles then pulling up for 3... I mean, rooting for the other side was something I couldn't help but do.

Anyone else feeling the same?
its because of the system the coach introduced to the team. international team plays a system that way. touch passing, off the ball movement, a lot of screens, cut to the basket etc. they play a lot of half court sets. while US' game is more of transition, they play press to force the other team a lot of turnover which usually leads to a dunk for US. but they do play half court offense, it just happened that their pressure defense is great. and regarding the guys dribbling too much they "maybe" doing it for on purpose like drawing double team to make a pass to an open teammate. now if they failed on that credit it to the opponents defense, 'cause they read the play so well it forced the ball handler to turn the ball over. and besides team US play fancy basketball so you'll see a lot of that happening, showcasing their talent through no look passes, beating their guys off the dribble, drawing double teams and shooting forced jumpers, alley oop passes, etc. about team USA being "more" athletic than the other teams, well give props to the players they worked hard for it. its not the skin color or what not, but its really YOU that matters because you are the one that will make yourself more athletic for the game.

[Sampsonsimpson]

The team that wins is the team that plays a better brand of ball