Scottie Pippen: Strong Side/Weak Side

[Manute for Ever!]

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/17933/Feature-Pipen-R_jpg_445x1000_upscale_q85.jpg

[New York Knicks]

That's pretty funny. But Roundball_Rock's gonna rage over this thread.

[TheLogo]

lol @ discrediting a hall of famer because you are blinded by the Hanes, that you wear over your head.

[Manute for Ever!]

lol @ discrediting a hall of famer because you are blinded by the Hanes, that you wear over your head.

I'm a Bulls fan, I just don't feel the need to take everything so seriously.

[Desperado]

lol @ discrediting a hall of famer because you are blinded by the Hanes, that you wear over your head.

MJ has some of the most idiotic fans ever.

Their knowledge consists of nothing but Gatorade/NIKE commercials and sports center highlights.

They just can't let go of their childhood hero and probably still play with their Space Jam doll everyday.


Brainwashed by the media this is all they know....
http://i37.tinypic.com/6pnds6.jpg

http://www.ajking8.com/productspic/Air_Jordan_12-1996_593-198.jpg
http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID28759/images/nba2k11-greatest-cover.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kjV2v94-L.jpg

[New York Knicks]

I'm a Bulls fan, I just don't feel the need to take everything so seriously.
You shoulda expected this thread to be trolled.

Kobe fan count = 2

[Manute for Ever!]

You shoulda expected this thread to be trolled.


I was waiting for it.

[imlmf]

which one of those is funny?

[Desperado]

http://www.flystylelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/space-jam-c10053900.jpeg


http://www.perfumezilla.com/images_product/michael-jordan-cologne-michael-jordan-eau-cologne-spray-men619014.jpg


http://popsop.ru/wp-content/uploads/gatorade_jordan_01.jpg


http://www.e-sportsshoes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Michael-Jordan.jpg

http://notqualifiedtocomment.com/wp-content/uploads/tumblr_l39noxFbGR1qzbwkjo1_500.jpg

http://money.cnn.com/2001/09/28/companies/column_sportsbiz/jordan_mci.nike.hanes.gater.jpg


http://i34.tinypic.com/se92lh.jpg


This is all they know.

[plowking]

Do you really think there isn't advertising of Lebron, Wade, Kobe and Shaq everywhere as well?

[New York Knicks]

What's even more hilarious is that Kobe grew up obsessed with MJ and watched those "Come Fly With Me" tapes over and over. Yet Kobe fans still rag on MJ.

[Desperado]

Do you really think there isn't advertising of Lebron, Wade, Kobe and Shaq everywhere as well?

All of them combined weren't even close to the way Jordan was massively advertised, MJ had the biggest marketing campaign in North America sports history.

With all the immense money put into all of the companies advertising and the all of corporate America and perhaps the entire world behind him Jordan's marketing machine rivals that of a national presidential campaign--except over 20+ years, not for one year.

[Batz]

What's even more hilarious is that Kobe grew up obsessed with MJ and watched those "Come Fly With Me" tapes over and over. Yet Kobe fans still rag on MJ.
Bet you watch Kobe getting owned videos over and over on youtube.

[GovernmentMan]

MJ has some of the most idiotic fans ever.


[/IMG]

yes, because Kobe fans are any better ...

[dwadefan11]

Dwade>Pippen
:banana:

[Toizumi]

I thought the OP was kinda lame. Not just because I'm a Pippen fan (I lie, it might have something to do with it:lol ), but because it was kinda lame?

some of those strong side/weak side pics are cool.. others aren't. This one wasn't my taste. No need to act butthurt like some posters in this thread though :confusedshrug:

[Manute for Ever!]

I thought the OP was kinda lame. Not just because I'm a Pippen fan (I lie, it might have something to do with it:lol ), but because it was kinda lame?

some of those strong side/weak side pics are cool.. others aren't. This one wasn't my taste. No need to act butthurt like some posters in this thread though :confusedshrug:

I agree, it wasn't one of the better Strong Side/Weak Side pics, I just posted it for the sake of it, but some people took it waaaay to personally, it barely even mentions Jordan! Damn, I forgot how easily Kobe trolls catch feelings!

[Alhazred]

I agree, it wasn't one of the better Strong Side/Weak Side pics, I just posted it for the sake of it, but some people took it waaaay to personally, it doesn't even mention Jordan!

Yes it does. :lol

It was alright though. I chuckled at a few of them, particularly the one about being overshadowed by Rodman.

[Manute for Ever!]

Yes it does. :lol

It was alright though. I chuckled at a few of them, particularly the one about being overshadowed by Rodman.

I checked back and it does so I edited my post. You must have posted this while I was doing it :cheers:
He's definitely not mentioned in away that makes him the focal point of the article, that's for sure.

[Toizumi]

I agree, it wasn't one of the better Strong Side/Weak Side pics, I just posted it for the sake of it, but some people took it waaaay to personally, it barely even mentions Jordan! Damn, I forgot how easily Kobe trolls catch feelings!

Damn, that's like forgetting where you live :oldlol:
you ok buddy?

[Manute for Ever!]

Damn, that's like forgetting where you live :oldlol:
you ok buddy?
:oldlol:

[JtotheIzzo]

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/17933/Feature-Pipen-R_jpg_445x1000_upscale_q85.jpg


was underrated for so long he is now supr-overrated.

If I gotta hear one more person say he was the second best player in the NBA in his prime I am gonna shit myself.

[plowking]

was underrated for so long he is now supr-overrated.

If I gotta hear one more person say he was the second best player in the NBA in his prime I am gonna shit myself.

He's apparently better than Kobe, Wade and Lebron to some people... :facepalm

Oh and don't forget Grant Hill; he was like, Lebron, but before Lebron... lol.

Some of the kids on here need to shut the f*ck up and stop pretending like they knew shit about previous eras if they haven't read up on it and watched tapes of the games.

[Manute for Ever!]

It's mainly guys like Fatal9 who overrate him; They claim to be Bulls fans, but are Jordan haters and feel the need to prop up Pippen at any chance. I liked Scottie, I thought he was good, but I still don't know how he got into the 50 Greatest Players over Dominique Wilkins. 'Nique definitely deserved it more.

[Toizumi]

It's mainly guys like Fatal9 who overrate him; They claim to be Bulls fans, but are Jordan haters and feel the need to prop up Pippen at any chance. I liked Scottie, I thought he was good, but I still don't know how he got into the 50 Greatest Players over Dominique Wilkins. 'Nique definitely deserved it more.

Unlike Pippen, Nique was a clear nr 1 option for his team, but who was the better player in terms of individual skills and team play?

Nique was a better scorer without doubt, eventhough they were almost equally effecient in percentages - Wilkins carried his entire team.. Pip had better teammate(s) and got better looks (less defensive attention then Wilkins). so scoring edge definitely goes to Nique.

Still though, Pippen was a better overall player in terms of passing, courtvision, defense. They have almost similar rebounding numbers.

So yeah, Pip was more versatile. That doesn't necesarilly make him the better player though, just saying. Rankings are subjective, but I'd take Pippen over Wilkins.

I'll admit that I'm slightly biased, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect your opinion. Nique was great. I'm happy Pip made it though - 50 greatest sounds good :oldlol:

[Alhazred]

I checked back and it does so I edited my post. You must have posted this while I was doing it :cheers:
He's definitely not mentioned in away that makes him the focal point of the article, that's for sure.

Lol fair enough.

[TheLogo]

We have a lot of people who don't know much about basketball and I am not one of them.

You guys are in here discrediting Pippen, who is a hall of famer, and the Finals MVP of '98. Many people, journalists and members of the media gave it to Pippen. Unfortunately he didn't win it.

How soon you guys forget this.....:facepalm

[Alhazred]

We have a lot of people who don't know much about basketball and I am not one of them.

You guys are in here discrediting Pippen, who is a hall of famer, and the Finals MVP of '98. Many people, journalists and members of the media gave it to Pippen. Unfortunately he didn't win it.

How soon you guys forget this.....:facepalm

Stopped reading after that.

[Manute for Ever!]

We have a lot of people who don't know much about basketball and I am not one of them.

You guys are in here discrediting Pippen, who is a hall of famer, and the Finals MVP of '98. Many people, journalists and members of the media gave it to Pippen. Unfortunately he didn't win it.

How soon you guys forget this.....:facepalm

Nobody is discrediting Pippen, it's just that some of us can take a joke about someone we respect.
Also, if someone didn't win the Finals MVP of '98 then they are not the Finals MVP of '98, whether you want them to be or not.

[jrong]

All of them combined weren't even close to the way Jordan was massively advertised, MJ had the biggest marketing campaign in North America sports history.

With all the immense money put into all of the companies advertising and the all of corporate America and perhaps the entire world behind him Jordan's marketing machine rivals that of a national presidential campaign--except over 20+ years, not for one year.

Um, LeBron's exposure is on par with MJ's, relative to his career achievements. Once he finally wins a title, prepare to go well past the saturation point.

[DuMa]

not as funny. that jordan's father joke is pretty distasteful. there are really no good ways to make fun of a murder.

[EarlTheGoat]

lol @ discrediting a hall of famer because you are blinded by the Hanes, that you wear over your head.
It was only a joke you retard.

:roll:

[New York Knicks]

It's mainly guys like Fatal9 who overrate him; They claim to be Bulls fans, but are Jordan haters and feel the need to prop up Pippen at any chance. I liked Scottie, I thought he was good, but I still don't know how he got into the 50 Greatest Players over Dominique Wilkins. 'Nique definitely deserved it more.
Fatal9's a Kobe fan.

[EarlTheGoat]

It's mainly guys like Fatal9 who overrate him; They claim to be Bulls fans, but are Jordan haters and feel the need to prop up Pippen at any chance. I liked Scottie, I thought he was good, but I still don't know how he got into the 50 Greatest Players over Dominique Wilkins. 'Nique definitely deserved it more.

Its not only Fatal9, almost everybody here plays that trick.

Joyner discredits Westbrook to hype up Durant.

Roundball discredits Pippen to hype up Jordan.

TheLogo hypes up Pippen to discredit Jordan and hype up Kobe.

etc etc etc


Almost everybody inside here is not honest and sincere when it comes to their idols.

[rivas]

Its not only Fatal9, almost everybody here plays that trick.

Joyner discredits Westbrook to hype up Durant.

Roundball discredits Jordan to hype up Pippen.

TheLogo hypes up Pippen to discredit Jordan and hype up Kobe.

etc etc etc


Almost everybody inside here is not honest and sincere when it comes to their idols.

Fixed

I still think roundball is a good poster and a true bulls fan though.

the rest are obvious trolls.

[New York Knicks]

Its not only Fatal9, almost everybody here plays that trick.

Joyner discredits Westbrook to hype up Durant.

Roundball discredits Pippen to hype up Jordan.

TheLogo hypes up Pippen to discredit Jordan and hype up Kobe.

etc etc etc


Almost everybody inside here is not honest and sincere when it comes to their idols.
You're confused. Roundball's a Pippen fan.

[Desperado]

I liked Scottie, I thought he was good, but I still don't know how he got into the 50 Greatest Players

:facepalm

Scottie without a doubt deserved to be on that 50th anniversary team and is easily a top 25 player of all-time.

But of course Jordan fan boys think he carried a bunch of scrubs to 6 titles.

[97 bulls]

:facepalm

Scottie without a doubt deserved to be on that 50th anniversary team and is easily a top 25 player of all-time.

But of course Jordan fan boys think he carried a bunch of scrubs to 6 titles.
I agree des. But you have to understand that these guys that discredit pippen don't know basketball. Dominique was a great scorer and that's it. Unfortunately, he never had a guy to compliment him like jordan and pippen complimented each other. But pippn is better than wilkins. Theses guys only acknowledge scoring.

[Alhazred]

:facepalm

Scottie without a doubt deserved to be on that 50th anniversary team and is easily a top 25 player of all-time.

But of course Jordan fan boys think he carried a bunch of scrubs to 6 titles.

Way to misquote him.


I liked Scottie, I thought he was good, but I still don't know how he got into the 50 Greatest Players over Dominique Wilkins.

Key words in bold.

[TheLogo]

This is like the only board I frequent where people don't give Scottie enough credit and they give Pau all the credit in the world.

I have actually read from people that Pau is better than Scottie.

Which is comedy gold right there......:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

I'm a Bulls fan, I just don't feel the need to take everything so seriously.
I don't think a bulls fan would post this. Unless you hate on pip. And therefore, your like every other bulls fan that's really just a jordan fan. Bad and distastefull post manute.

[TheLogo]

True Bulls fan would never bash Pippen.

[97 bulls]

Way to misquote him.



Key words in bold.
Are you a bulls fan? or a jordan fan?

[Alhazred]

Are you a bulls fan? or a jordan fan?

Correcting a misleading post makes me a Jordan homer now? :ohwell: Desperado intentionally twisted Manute's words around to create a strawman argument. No one said that Pippen didn't deserve to be in the Top 50(At least I hope that's not what Manute was implying).

Also, I prefer Pippen over Wilkins, but I understand that Dominique still has plenty of fans and can sort of understand how some people would prefer him over Scottie.

[EarlTheGoat]

You're confused. Roundball's a Pippen fan.
True. Im confusing him with OldSchoolBall.

[necya]

concerning the pippen was in the building when MJ dunked from FT line, pippen was able too and did it

[97 bulls]

concerning the pippen was in the building when MJ dunked from FT line, pippen was able too and did it
There's a lot of pippen haters on this board.

[necya]

There's a lot of pippen haters on this board.

yeah, but it's nothing, most of guys here are 17yo and never watched more than 4 games of pippen...
pippen is like a definition of the basketball game, how can people hate a player who is exemple in every aspect of a sport they say loving...?

[Manute for Ever!]

Lets clear up a few things here:

It's possible to like players and to be able to accept and appreciate jokes at their expense. It doesn't have to be seen as a sign of disrespect, if someone is in the public light they will be the butt of a joke at some stage. repeating that joke doesn't mean you don't like or respect that person, not everything in life needs to be taken so seriously. I mean, stuff like this:

I don't think a bulls fan would post this. Unless you hate on pip. And therefore, your like every other bulls fan that's really just a jordan fan. Bad and distastefull post manute.
What the hell is that about? People just read too much into simple things. Here is an example: My fiance is Malaysian Chinese, we have been together for seven years and sometimes I mock little quirks she has. Does that mean I secretly hate her and think white people are superior?

Some of the younger fans on here need to understand that there are people who are fans of a team first, not a player. I'm a 31 year old Bulls fan, have been a Bulls fan since 1988. Any player that wears my teams colours are fine by me for the duration of the time they are on my team. We've had some of our biggest rivals suit up for us. I used to cheer so strongly against players Like John Salley, Dennis Rodman and James Edwards when they were on the 'Bad Boys' Pistons squads and John Starks as a Knick, but I embraced them the second they donned the red and black. But I will always be a Chicago fan. When Pippen was a Rocket/Blazer and when MJ was a Wizard, I enjoyed watching them play, but I was still supporting Chicago, even when we were going up against those guys.

Some of you Kobe fanboys have let either:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Hollywood, or
3. Both

get in your head really badly. The original post barely mentions Jordan, but just because it is a piss-take of Pippen it doesn't mean it's sole intention is to elevate Jordan's status. Not everyone thinks like you immature morons with your fixation on individual rankings/legacy/importance. I watched Scottie from his second season, I am more than aware how important he was to our team.
Just because your team is in Hollywood, doesn't mean everything on every team needs to be a drama. You had the Shaq/Kobe feud and you feel a need to take sides and try to tear the other down. As a Chicago fan it is possible like both Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, a lot of fans even liked them equally, believe it or not. :eek:
The point is that a lot of older people care more about their team winning than individual legacies, unlike you dumbass kids.

Don't take portions of a quote out of context and try to tailor it to suit your argument, it just makes you look stupid. Example:

It's mainly guys like Fatal9 who overrate him; They claim to be Bulls fans, but are Jordan haters and feel the need to prop up Pippen at any chance. I liked Scottie, I thought he was good, but I still don't know how he got into the 50 Greatest Players over Dominique Wilkins. 'Nique definitely deserved it more.


I liked Scottie, I thought he was good, but I still don't know how he got into the 50 Greatest Players :facepalm

Scottie without a doubt deserved to be on that 50th anniversary team and is easily a top 25 player of all-time.

But of course Jordan fan boys think he carried a bunch of scrubs to 6 titles.
Not quite what I wrote, was it Desparado? Fortunately Alhazred interpreted the point correctly:

Correcting a misleading post makes me a Jordan homer now? :ohwell: Desperado intentionally twisted Manute's words around to create a strawman argument. No one said that Pippen didn't deserve to be in the Top 50(At least I hope that's not what Manute was implying).

Also, I prefer Pippen over Wilkins, but I understand that Dominique still has plenty of fans and can sort of understand how some people would prefer him over Scottie.


The thread continues to spiral on about 'Pippen-Haters' after that. Seriously, you guys need to lighten up a little and not read so deeply into things. I loved both Jordan and Pippen, I wasn't chopping one down to prop up the other's legacy (mainly because I don't care about that bullshit), but I am also able to laugh at something that is at the expense of something I like/enjoy.
I guess the point is that a lot of you guys need to grow up or get outside more or something...

Oh, and cheers to Alhazred for backing me up. Repped :cheers:

[TheLogo]

Manute4ever....

Please stop with the cut and paste....

:facepalm

[Manute for Ever!]

Manute4ever....

Please stop with the cut and paste....

:facepalm

TheLogo....

Please stop with the trolling....

:facepalm

[Manute for Ever!]

Manute4ever....

Please stop with the cut and paste....

:facepalm

I just realised that you posted that so quickly after my post that you didn't actually have time to read it. Top work again, genius.

[Alhazred]

Oh, and cheers to Alhazred for backing me up. Repped :cheers:

No problem, glad to support a fellow Onion fan. :cheers:

[97 bulls]

Way to misquote him.



Key words in bold.
I honestly don't see how he's being misquoted. He said he believed dominique should've gotten in OVER pip. Thus pip doesn't belong on the list cuz therese someone better.

[97 bulls]

It's mainly guys like Fatal9 who overrate him; They claim to be Bulls fans, but are Jordan haters and feel the need to prop up Pippen at any chance. I liked Scottie, I thought he was good, but I still don't know how he got into the 50 Greatest Players over Dominique Wilkins. 'Nique definitely deserved it more.
There's a lot of guys that claim to be bulls fans. But yet never post in the bulls forum and only degrade anyone on the championship teams not named jordan.

[97 bulls]

He's apparently better than Kobe, Wade and Lebron to some people... :facepalm

Oh and don't forget Grant Hill; he was like, Lebron, but before Lebron... lol.

Some of the kids on here need to shut the f*ck up and stop pretending like they knew shit about previous eras if they haven't read up on it and watched tapes of the games.
Grant hills was like lebron before he got hurt. He was putting up like 25 8 and 7. Eras are different now rules have made it easier for guys to score. Which is the reason for the 5 point difference. Although id still say lebron is a better scorer than hill.

[97 bulls]

Lets clear up a few things here:

It's possible to like players and to be able to accept and appreciate jokes at their expense. It doesn't have to be seen as a sign of disrespect, if someone is in the public light they will be the butt of a joke at some stage. repeating that joke doesn't mean you don't like or respect that person, not everything in life needs to be taken so seriously. I mean, stuff like this:

What the hell is that about? People just read too much into simple things. Here is an example: My fiance is Malaysian Chinese, we have been together for seven years and sometimes I mock little quirks she has. Does that mean I secretly hate her and think white people are superior?

Some of the younger fans on here need to understand that there are people who are fans of a team first, not a player. I'm a 31 year old Bulls fan, have been a Bulls fan since 1988. Any player that wears my teams colours are fine by me for the duration of the time they are on my team. We've had some of our biggest rivals suit up for us. I used to cheer so strongly against players Like John Salley, Dennis Rodman and James Edwards when they were on the 'Bad Boys' Pistons squads and John Starks as a Knick, but I embraced them the second they donned the red and black. But I will always be a Chicago fan. When Pippen was a Rocket/Blazer and when MJ was a Wizard, I enjoyed watching them play, but I was still supporting Chicago, even when we were going up against those guys.

Some of you Kobe fanboys have let either:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Hollywood, or
3. Both

get in your head really badly. The original post barely mentions Jordan, but just because it is a piss-take of Pippen it doesn't mean it's sole intention is to elevate Jordan's status. Not everyone thinks like you immature morons with your fixation on individual rankings/legacy/importance. I watched Scottie from his second season, I am more than aware how important he was to our team.
Just because your team is in Hollywood, doesn't mean everything on every team needs to be a drama. You had the Shaq/Kobe feud and you feel a need to take sides and try to tear the other down. As a Chicago fan it is possible like both Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, a lot of fans even liked them equally, believe it or not. :eek:
The point is that a lot of older people care more about their team winning than individual legacies, unlike you dumbass kids.

Don't take portions of a quote out of context and try to tailor it to suit your argument, it just makes you look stupid. Example:


Not quite what I wrote, was it Desparado? Fortunately Alhazred interpreted the point correctly:



The thread continues to spiral on about 'Pippen-Haters' after that. Seriously, you guys need to lighten up a little and not read so deeply into things. I loved both Jordan and Pippen, I wasn't chopping one down to prop up the other's legacy (mainly because I don't care about that bullshit), but I am also able to laugh at something that is at the expense of something I like/enjoy.
I guess the point is that a lot of you guys need to grow up or get outside more or something...

Oh, and cheers to Alhazred for backing me up. Repped :cheers:
Dude what do you expect? Nobody knows anybody on these internet web sites. All I can do is gather what you post, and decide from there. And the message you wrote coincides with what the average pippen hater spews. If it looks like a pippen hater, talks like a pippen hater, and post stuff like a pippen hater then its a pippen hater.

I just call them like I see them. You don't want to be lumped in with them then don't talk like them.

[97 bulls]

Correcting a misleading post makes me a Jordan homer now? :ohwell: Desperado intentionally twisted Manute's words around to create a strawman argument. No one said that Pippen didn't deserve to be in the Top 50(At least I hope that's not what Manute was implying).

Also, I prefer Pippen over Wilkins, but I understand that Dominique still has plenty of fans and can sort of understand how some people would prefer him over Scottie.I don't know bro. I just don't see it. Pippen is clearly a better basketball player than wilkins.

[Alhazred]

I honestly don't see how he's being misquoted. He said he believed dominique should've gotten in OVER pip. Thus pip doesn't belong on the list cuz therese someone better.

I read it as him thinking that Pippen shouldn't have been ranked higher than Dominique, not that he shouldn't have been in at all. I believe Manute confirmed that in his recent post.


I don't know bro. I just don't see it. Pippen is clearly a better basketball player than wilkins.

Wilkins was amazing at his peak, particularly the late 80s and early 90s. Him and Bird were considered the two best small forwards in the league pre-1990, plus he led an inferior Hawks team to a seven game second round series against Boston in 88. Like I said, Scottie is the better overall player in my opinion, but Dominique was no scrub himself, either. Besides, I don't know why some of you are ragging on Manute for preferring Wilkins when Desperado has compared him to MJ on multiple occasions. If he's good enough to be compared to Jordan, then it really shouldn't be that inconceivable that someone might prefer him over Pippen, right?

[97 bulls]

I read it as him thinking that Pippen shouldn't have been ranked higher than Dominique, not that he shouldn't have been in at all. I believe Manute confirmed that in his recent post.



Wilkins was amazing at his peak, particularly the late 80s and early 90s. Him and Bird were considered the two best small forwards in the league pre-1990, plus he led an inferior Hawks team to a seven game second round series against Boston in 88. Like I said, Scottie is the better overall player in my opinion, but Dominique was no scrub himself, either. Besides, I don't know why some of you are ragging on Manute for preferring Wilkins when Desperado has compared him to MJ on multiple occasions. If he's good enough to be compared to Jordan, then it really shouldn't be that inconceivable that someone might prefer him over Pippen, right?
Dominique was a great player just not better than pippen. And I don't mean to rag on manute. I'm just sick of these posers that claim to be bulls fans to qualify their degradation of pippen. Just admit you love jordan and followed the bulls only cuz michael jordan played for them. And the fact is that manutes post alligns him in that camp.

[Samurai Swoosh]

He's apparently better than Kobe, Wade and Lebron to some people... :facepalm

Oh and don't forget Grant Hill; he was like, Lebron, but before Lebron... lol.

Some of the kids on here need to shut the f*ck up and stop pretending like they knew shit about previous eras if they haven't read up on it and watched tapes of the games.
Seriously ...

Grant Hill was actually a superior version of Scottie Pippen.

Minus the as intense defense, but we all know Pippen acquired that talent by guarding MJ everyday, and MJ's tenacity leaking into Pippen's basketball brain.

[97 bulls]

Seriously ...

Grant Hill was actually a superior version of Scottie Pippen.

Minus the as intense defense, but we all know Pippen acquired that talent by guarding MJ everyday, and MJ's tenacity leaking into Pippen's basketball brain.
Are you a bulls fan swoosh?

[Samurai Swoosh]

Are you a bulls fan swoosh?
Growing up, of course. Why wouldn't I have been? Growing up in the city of Chicago, watching these Bulls teams.

[97 bulls]

Growing up, of course. Why wouldn't I have been? Growing up in the city of Chicago, watching these Bulls teams.
So how can you say hill was superior to pippen? Again another case where you look at ppg and make a silly determination. And even when hill maxed out at 25 ppg that's only three more points than pip. But for the most part, hill and pippen averaged the same amount of ppg. Except pippen had to share the ball with jordan.

The fact is that grant hill, lebron james, scottie pippen, and magic johnson are all the same type of players.

[97 bulls]

Growing up, of course. Why wouldn't I have been? Growing up in the city of Chicago, watching these Bulls teams.
Another question, are you a bulls fan now?

[Alhazred]

Dominique was a great player just not better than pippen. And I don't mean to rag on manute. I'm just sick of these posers that claim to be bulls fans to qualify their degradation of pippen. Just admit you love jordan and followed the bulls only cuz michael jordan played for them. And the fact is that manutes post alligns him in that camp.

Manute posted a picture from a recent Onion page, one that they have several different versions of with various athletes. They're obviously not meant to be taken too seriously.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/scottie-pippen,17933/

I understand if you want to call out someone who calls Pippen a roleplayer or compares him to Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier, but you really need to relax. Pretty much every knowledgeable poster on this site will tell you that he's one of the 30 greatest players of all-time or better and those who don't will most likely have him somewhere between 30 and 40. Anyone who blatantly claims that Pippen has no business being on the Top 50 Greatest Players list is probably someone who is just looking for attention because I don't see how you can make a serious case for leaving him off of it.

Also, maybe it's just me, but you don't seem to care all that much for Jordan despite claiming to be a Bulls fan. Just seems kind of odd.

[Glide2keva]

It seems you can't be a pippen and fan and a Jordan fan on this site. I'm rare I guess seeing as I am a complete Bulls fan and love both players. That why you never see me propping up one over the other. I see them as pieces of a whole. Both were great.

Pippen is absolutely deserving of top 25-30 all time. I have him higher, but I can see if someone else doesn't. I was at that 1.8 seconds game right under the rim kukoc hit the game winner on.

His actions will hurt him in his rankings in my opinion. In that game I mean.

[97 bulls]

Manute posted a picture from a recent Onion page, one that they have several different versions of with various athletes. They're obviously not meant to be taken too seriously.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/scottie-pippen,17933/

I understand if you want to call out someone who calls Pippen a roleplayer or compares him to Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier, but you really need to relax. Pretty much every knowledgeable poster on this site will tell you that he's one of the 30 greatest players of all-time or better and those who don't will most likely have him somewhere between 30 and 40. Anyone who blatantly claims that Pippen has no business being on the Top 50 Greatest Players list is probably someone who is just looking for attention because I don't see how you can make a serious case for leaving him off of it.

Also, maybe it's just me, but you don't seem to care all that much for Jordan despite claiming to be a Bulls fan. Just seems kind of odd.
I really don't respond to the jordan haters. To me no player is comparable to him. I'm on record as saying that michael jordan has NO WEAKNESS when it comes to basketball. He is the greatest ever.

[Samurai Swoosh]

So how can you say hill was superior to pippen?
Coming into the league, and given his progression as a player, I saw him as a upgraded version of Scottie Pippen. More polished skill wise, etc. Like I said the only thing he lacked was the defensive intensity, which I believe came from Pippen being hounded by Jordan, and facing the greatest offensive threat in the game on a DAILY basis.


And even when hill maxed out at 25 ppg that's only three more points than pip.
3 ppg is significant, my dude.

The difference between low 20's to mid 20's to high 20's is only a few points, but that difference is huge.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Another question, are you a bulls fan now?
To an extent, sure. As I grew older my child like sensibilities and association with one team basketball wise faded, and I became a bigger fan of the game as a whole.

What exactly does that have to do with this thread? Nothing.

[97 bulls]

Coming into the league, and given his progression as a player, I saw him as a upgraded version of Scottie Pippen. More polished skill wise, etc. Like I said the only thing he lacked was the defensive intensity, which I believe came from Pippen being hounded by Jordan, and facing the greatest offensive threat in the game on a DAILY basis.


3 ppg is significant, my dude.

The difference between low 20's to mid 20's to high 20's is only a few points, but that difference is huge.
How many points does grant hill avg if he played with jordan? And don't say 20 cuz for the most part, he avg. 21 without sharring the ball with a player like jordan

[Samurai Swoosh]

How many points does grant hill avg if he played with jordan? And don't say 20 cuz for the most part, he avg. 21 without sharring the ball with a player like jordan
So are you asking me, and then telling me my answer? The point I am making is Grant Hill was more refined skill wise (offensively) that he could produce at a higher level than Pippen, IMO. I don't doubt Grant Hill could average from 20 to 23 ppg playing along side Michael Jordan.

That's no knock on Pippen, that's just stating the obvious that Grant Hill was a very special talent pre-knee injury.

[97 bulls]

To an extent, sure. As I grew older my child like sensibilities and association with one team basketball wise faded, and I became a bigger fan of the game as a whole.

What exactly does that have to do with this thread? Nothing.
Sure it does. Your a pippen hater. And while you outgrew what you call your "childlike" sensibilities, your not man enough to admit your a hater. Your what us men call a band wagoner. See how that happened?

[Desperado]

Pippen at his peak was actually very close to mid 80's Magic Johnson statistically speaking.....

[Samurai Swoosh]

Sure it does. Your a pippen hater. And while you outgrew what you call your "childlike" sensibilities, your not man enough to admit your a hater. Your what us men call a band wagoner. See how that happened?
See how what happened? I find it fascinating that you lept to a conclusion that I am a "Pippen Hater"?

:oldlol:

Where did I say or even insinuate I didn't like him or respect him as a player? I just keep it level headed in regards to his place in the history of the game.

Obviously I grew up watching him and he was one of my favorites.

A band wagoner? Real men don't care about what others think of them. You can call me a band wagoner till you are BLUE in the face. It doesn't bother me.

Especially considering it doesn't even make sense. I originate from Chicago, grew up watching them. How would that make me a band wagoner?

[97 bulls]

So are you asking me, and then telling me my answer? The point I am making is Grant Hill was more refined skill wise (offensively) that he could produce at a higher level than Pippen, IMO. I don't doubt Grant Hill could average from 20 to 23 ppg playing along side Michael Jordan.

That's no knock on Pippen, that's just stating the obvious that Grant Hill was a very special talent pre-knee injury.
I'm tryn to reason with you brah. How can he avg 20 to 23 ppg when he avg 21 the bulk of his seasons? And never had to share the ball with a jordan type player? And you are another guy that gives no respect to the defensive side of the ball. I see no reason why pip should be penalized for being a defensive monster partially cuz he played with jordan. I'm sure grant hill got a lot of his skills growing up the son of a professional athlete. Thus he probably played with a lot of nba ball players. You don't think that helped him?

[1987_Lakers]

lol @ 97 bulls calling everyone a Pippen "hater" just because they think prime Grant Hill > prime Pippen, It is definitely arguable. This dude just can't accept the fact that Pippen isn't as good as he thinks he is. He thinks Pippen is on the same level as Bird.:lol

[Samurai Swoosh]

I'm tryn to reason with you brah. How can he avg 20 to 23 ppg when he avg 21 the bulk of his seasons? And never had to share the ball with a jordan type player? And you are another guy that gives no respect to the defensive side of the ball. I see no reason why pip should be penalized for being a defensive monster partially cuz he played with jordan.

Hill also was the focal point for defenses the majority of his career when he was a "superstar." Pippen got to develop in the shadows, not shouldering the burden of carrying a franchise. Something I don't think he would've been able to handle. Hell, he had difficulty in terms of mental toughness till 1991 when he finally got over his mental hurdles. All while not having the spotlight focused on him.

Using your same argument, Hill didn't play along side someone so dominant offensively (and defensively) that it required other defenses to focus on someone else first, thus creating easier looks for himself. Which surely Jordan did for Pippen. You're not reasoning with shit, bro. You're looking desperately to validate your opinion.

Give no respect to defense? I already mentioned multiple times that Hill wasn't near what Pippen was on the otherside of the ball. Learn to read, my dude.


I'm sure grant hill got a lot of his skills growing up the son of a professional athlete. Thus he probably played with a lot of nba ball players. You don't think that helped him?
What in god's name are you talking about? Grant Hill's father was a NFL football player. We're talking about Pippen's development as an NBA player, having a large contributing factor by playing along side the best defender in the game, and having to guard possibly the best offensive talent of all-time on a daily basis.

[Desperado]

I originate from Chicago, grew up watching them. How would that make me a band wagoner?

Nah, you probably just grew up watching Space Jam over and over like the rest of these delusional, ignorant MJ jockers.

This is all you know you guys know.....
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WWA6FJ70L.jpg

http://image2.onlineauction.com/auctions//25607/hsdw-986764-1.jpg


Then claim ''Hey everyone I grew up watching the Bulls!''

[Samurai Swoosh]

lol @ 97 bulls calling everyone a Pippen "hater" just because they think prime Grant Hill > prime Pippen, It is definitely arguable. This dude just can't accept the fact that Pippen isn't as good as he thinks he is. He thinks Pippen is on the same level as Bird.:lol
He calls himself a Bulls fan, and claims the 1997 team is the best Bulls team of All-Time. NONE of the 2nd three peat Bulls were as good as any of the original three peat teams. Ridiculous win / loss records aside (they played in a weaker league from 1996 - 1998) ... the best Bulls teams weren't those late 90's teams.

Uh oh, I'm being realistic ... I guess I'm a Bulls hater now as well.

:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

See how what happened? I find it fascinating that you lept to a conclusion that I am a "Pippen Hater"?

:oldlol:

Where did I say or even insinuate I didn't like him or respect him as a player? I just keep it level headed in regards to his place in the history of the game.

Obviously I grew up watching him and he was one of my favorites.

A band wagoner? Real men don't care about what others think of them. You can call me a band wagoner till you are BLUE in the face. It doesn't bother me.

Especially considering it doesn't even make sense. I originate from Chicago, grew up watching them. How would that make me a band wagoner?
I'm sorry bro. You just seem to come from the juju/odb mold of "jordan only". And say things like "I like pippen, he was one of my favorite players" then lump him in with andre igadala.

It reminds me of the classic, "I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are black" quote. After they've shown all kinds of signs to the contrary.

[Samurai Swoosh]

I'm sorry bro. You just seem to come from the juju/odb mold of "jordan only". And say things like "I like pippen, he was one of my favorite players" then lump him in with andre igadala.

It reminds me of the classic, "I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are black" quote. After they've shown all kinds of signs to the contrary.
You paranoid or something? Where did I say Pippen wasn't one of the all-time greats?

[97 bulls]

lol @ 97 bulls calling everyone a Pippen "hater" just because they think prime Grant Hill > prime Pippen, It is definitely arguable. This dude just can't accept the fact that Pippen isn't as good as he thinks he is. He thinks Pippen is on the same level as Bird.:lol
And here comes this whore. A laker fan that defends the celtics to no end. What a joke.

[1987_Lakers]

He calls himself a Bulls fan, and claims the 1997 team is the best Bulls team of All-Time. NONE of the 2nd three peat Bulls were as good as any of the original three peat teams. Ridiculous win / loss records aside (they played in a weaker league from 1996 - 1998) ... the best Bulls teams weren't those late 90's teams.

Uh oh, I'm being realistic ... I guess I'm a Bulls hater now as well.

:oldlol:

:oldlol:

[Desperado]

And here comes this whore. A laker fan that defends the celtics to no end. What a joke.

Someone on this site exposed him as fugazie a while ago.

''1987_Lakers'' is really a Boston sports fan. :lol

[97 bulls]

Hill also was the focal point for defenses the majority of his career when he was a "superstar." Pippen got to develop in the shadows, not shouldering the burden of carrying a franchise. Something I don't think he would've been able to handle. Hell, he had difficulty in terms of mental toughness till 1991 when he finally got over his mental hurdles. All while not having the spotlight focused on him.

Using your same argument, Hill didn't play along side someone so dominant offensively (and defensively) that it required other defenses to focus on someone else first, thus creating easier looks for himself. Which surely Jordan did for Pippen. You're not reasoning with shit, bro. You're looking desperately to validate your opinion.

Give no respect to defense? I already mentioned multiple times that Hill wasn't near what Pippen was on the otherside of the ball. Learn to read, my dude.


What in god's name are you talking about? Grant Hill's father was a NFL football player. We're talking about Pippen's development as an NBA player, having a large contributing factor by playing along side the best defender in the game, and having to guard possibly the best offensive talent of all-time on a daily basis.
You don't think grant hills father took him around nba players? And payed top dollar for the best coaches? Come on. And 3 ppg does not make up the gap that pippen had over hill defensively.

[Fatal9]

Pippen at his peak was actually very close to mid 80's Magic Johnson statistically speaking.....
and we already know who would shut down who if they met in a playoff series. I think impact wise, that's a perfect comparison for prime Pippen: pre-'87 Magic. Statistically they are virtually even, both have all the intangibles in the world, Magic more dominant offensively, Pippen more dominant defensively, but both can do anything the team needs to win (score, create plays, rebound and in Pippen's case, play defense too). Pippen would have put up absolutely insane numbers in those mid 80s run + gun western conferences (something like 25/9/7/3 on 50+% imo).

[ShaqAttack3234]

Grant Hill was actually a superior version of Scottie Pippen.

No he wasn't. Hill had a prettier crossover and a better pull-up mid-range shot, but Pippen was better in the post and a better 3 point shooter and when it comes to scoring, clutch play, passing/playmaking and rebounding, Hill wasn't better than Pippen overall in any of them.

Scottie averaged 22/9/6/3 on 49% shooting without Jordan in '94 while leading the Bulls to 55 wins and game 7 of the ECSF, that's a more successful season than Hill had in 6 years as the man.

[Desperado]

1987_Lakers-

''Bio:

I am a life-long Boston sports fan

[1987_Lakers]

[QUOTE=Desperado]1987_Lakers-

''Bio:

I am a life-long Boston sports fan

[97 bulls]

He calls himself a Bulls fan, and claims the 1997 team is the best Bulls team of All-Time. NONE of the 2nd three peat Bulls were as good as any of the original three peat teams. Ridiculous win / loss records aside (they played in a weaker league from 1996 - 1998) ... the best Bulls teams weren't those late 90's teams.

Uh oh, I'm being realistic ... I guess I'm a Bulls hater now as well.:roll: :roll:

:oldlol:
Lol you funny boy. I'm not gonna argue abut the difference of the nba over a five six year span. The 2nd 3pt bulls beat some damn good teams in the playoffs. You just feel that the 1st 3pt bulls were better cuz you think god (jordan) was at his "physical peak". Forget the fact that they were better at every position and had a better bench.

[Samurai Swoosh]

No he wasn't. Hill had a prettier crossover and a better pull-up mid-range shot, but Pippen was better in the post and a better 3 point shooter and when it comes to scoring, clutch play, passing/playmaking and rebounding, Hill wasn't better than Pippen overall in any of them.
He was his equal in terms of play making and passing. 3 point shooting? Pippen. But that took years of work for Pippen to develop. Better in the post? I'll give it to you, even though it isn't anything super significant. The only clear cut advantage Pippen has on Hill is on the defensive side of the ball. That's it.


Scottie averaged 22/9/6/3 on 49% shooting without Jordan in '94 while leading the Bulls to 55 wins and game 7 of the ECSF, that's a more successful season than Hill had in 6 years as the man.
**** outta here acting like that was all Scottie Pippen.

:oldlol:

Dude inherited a club that just went on a three year Championship run, and had loads of confidence, and experience.

And that year had two other all stars besides, Pippen. Both Grant and Armstrong were named NBA All Stars.

Point was they lost in the 2nd round. Pippen outstanding as he was, and with a vet crew with LOADS of Championship experience led them to a 2nd round exit. Do you get an award for that or something?

Hill never had a team coming off 3 years of CHAMPIONSHIP experience. And was an immediate SUPERSTAR caliber impact player from his rookie season on wards. Situations are entirely different. Hill was the franchise. Pippen was a supporting character all the way until 1994 when he had blossomed under a superior player's tutelage and inherited a very good ball club.

How you could even compare the team success of Hill to Scottie Pippen's 1994 Bulls team is beyond ridiculous. Look at the huge drop off the next year after they lost Horace Grant?

[AirJordan23]

Manute4ever....

Please stop with the cut and paste....

:facepalm
http://i33.tinypic.com/2636c.jpg

[Samurai Swoosh]

Lol you funny boy. I'm not gonna argue abut the difference of the nba over a five six year span. The 2nd 3pt bulls beat some damn good teams in the playoffs. You just feel that the 1st 3pt bulls were better cuz you think god (jordan) was at his "physical peak". Forget the fact that they were better at every position and had a better bench.
No, I feel the Bulls were a much stronger team from top to bottom during the first three peat. And what Horace Grant gave us in that period, was more significant than what Dennis Rodman provided at the position. The depth at PG, the Center position ... all superior, and like I said they competed against superior competition, and faced adversity that none of the late 90's Bulls teams faced. And yes, Jordan was at his absolute peak. Mentally, physically, skill ... you name it.

[Desperado]

No he wasn't. Hill had a prettier crossover and a better pull-up mid-range shot, but Pippen was better in the post and a better 3 point shooter and when it comes to scoring, clutch play, passing/playmaking and rebounding, Hill wasn't better than Pippen overall in any of them.

Scottie averaged 22/9/6/3 on 49% shooting without Jordan in '94 while leading the Bulls to 55 wins and game 7 of the ECSF, that's a more successful season than Hill had in 6 years as the man.

Yup and even in his prime even when he wasn't ''the man'' he had 3 Finals performances close to averaging a triple double.

Not just that but early on in his career an announcer claimed Pippen would be ''the man'' on many other teams in the NBA without Mike.

[97 bulls]

Someone on this site exposed him as fugazie a while ago.

''1987_Lakers'' is really a Boston sports fan. :lol
This clown ain't no more a lakers fan than I am. All the lakers fans should petition insidehoops to strip his screen name. And write a formal apology to all the true lakers and celtics fans.

Then tar and feather his lyn ass and banish him to one of those obscure basketball sites.

[97 bulls]

Would be funny if it was true. I was raised nowhere near Boston.
Dude, you've been exposed. Change your name to 86 celtics and get on with being the great poster that you are.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yup and even in his prime even when he wasn't ''the man'' he had 3 Finals performances close to averaging a triple double.

Not just that but early on in his career an announcer claimed Pippen would be ''the man'' on many other teams in the NBA without Mike.

Yep, look at that '92 season, averaged 21/8/7 on 51% shooting while playing elite defense. And those 7 apg came in the triangle offense. And while one can argue about not being the top priority of the opposing team's defense, you could also argue that his numbers would increase in a more ball dominant role.

[1987_Lakers]

This clown ain't no more a lakers fan than I am. All the lakers fans should petition insidehoops to strip his screen name. And write a formal apology to all the true lakers and celtics fans.

Then tar and feather his lyn ass and banish him to one of those obscure basketball sites.

This clown should be banned for calling himself 97 bulls without ever watching the '97 bulls. And your hate for the '80's Celtics & Lakers is scary.

"Kevin McHale was Rasheed Wallace with no range"
"Larry Bird is overrated"
"I would take Stockton over Magic"
"Pippen is on the same level as Bird"
"Robert Parish is overrated"
"James Worthy is overrated"

At least try to hide your hate.
:roll:

[Alhazred]

I really don't respond to the jordan haters. To me no player is comparable to him. I'm on record as saying that michael jordan has NO
WEAKNESS when it comes to basketball. He is the greatest ever.


Fair enough.

[Fatal9]

late 90s Hill vs. '92-'96 Pippen how I see it...

- Hill had a better handle, more "guard-like" and a more explosive first step. Could beat his man easier off the dribble and was better at getting to the rim in a half court setting.
- Pippen, especially after '93, unquestionably had a better jumper and more range (and yes, I know Pip's jumper could be quite inconsistent). Pippen was also a better post scorer.
- Pippen was better in the open court, and because their strengths were in different areas in the half court, I'd call it even. Hill improved his jumper as his career went on, but it wasn't pretty during the late 90s.
- They are even in playmaking skills and rebounding.
- Hill was an average to good defender (feel like he gets underrated somewhat in this area, when he set his mind to it he could play good man to man D). Pippen was probably the best defender ever on the perimeter and would relentlessly disrupt the opposing team's offense. Pippen could change games to help his team win even when he was shooting 5/14 or something, Hill couldn't. It gave an added consistency to Scottie's game because your offense can betray you. Some of Pip's best games are where he scores 10 points but locks down the other team's star while patrolling the entire court with his long arms.

Hill was very good. Couple of his Pistons teams didn't have much, old ass Dumars was his next best player, he would win 50+ games with that team and was top 3 in MVP voting (behind Malone and MJ). Pippen was better though, he could do everything Hill could but dominate the game at both ends. That's really the only area where you can separate the two and Pippen has a considerable edge.

[97 bulls]

No, I feel the Bulls were a much stronger team from top to bottom during the first three peat. And what Horace Grant gave us in that period, was more significant than what Dennis Rodman provided at the position. The depth at PG, the Center position ... all superior, and like I said they competed against superior competition, and faced adversity that none of the late 90's Bulls teams faced. And yes, Jordan was at his absolute peak. Mentally, physically, skill ... you name it.I think the bulls outside shooting was better in the 1st 3pt. But the second three peat was better defensively, more efficient, and much more rugged. I never like stacey king, kerr was just as good a shooter as pax arguably better. What they lost from grant offensive they got it back from kukoc. And brian williams was wayyyyyy better than scot williams. They had more size and longley basically gave the thing as cartwright. Oh and pippen finally got respect due to what he showed without jordan.

[1987_Lakers]

:wtf:

Sounds like your confusing 97 bulls with kb42pah/BirdOverrated.

no

[OldSchoolBBall]

- Pippen, especially after '93, unquestionably had a better jumper and more range (and yes, I know Pip's jumper could be quite inconsistent). Pippen was also a better post scorer.

Nice analysis overall of their respective strengths, but I disagree here. Pippen may have been better from 3, but Hill from '97 onward was a better midrange shooter than Pippen ever was. His 12-20 foot shot was wet.

[AirJordan23]

Just saw Pippen gets absolutely LOCKED UP by Chris Mills. u mad Desperado and Fatal?

Watching Mashburn drop a career high 50 pts on the GOAT perimeter defender right now.

[97 bulls]

This clown should be banned for calling himself 97 bulls without ever watching the '97 bulls. And your hate for the '80's Celtics & Lakers is scary.

"Kevin McHale was Rasheed Wallace with no range"
"Larry Bird is overrated"
"I would take Stockton over Magic"
"Pippen is on the same level as Bird"
"Robert Parish is overrated"
"James Worthy is overrated"

At least try to hide your hate.
:roll:
So what should I do? change my name to my favorite teams biggest rival like you then defend them? And let's clarify some things. I said that in a matchup of pippen vs bird its a wash considering what they did head to head. And that was in a matchup in which the 97 bulls play the 86 celtics. Yes, I feel that worthy and parrish are overrated and shouldn't be in the hof. And I don't see why stockton couldn't win and put up the same stats as magic if he was in his same situation. Plus stock was a much better defender and jumpshooter. But the laker would loose magics rebounding.

The rasheed wallace kevin mchale was a bad example. Mchale was definately better.

[1987_Lakers]

I said that in a matchup of pippen vs bird its a wash considering what they did head to head. And that was in a matchup in which the 97 bulls play the 86 celtics.

You shouldn't even be allowed to discuss '97 Bulls vs '86 Celtics. You thought Greg Kite was apart of the '86 Celtics 8 man rotation.
:roll:

[ShaqAttack3234]

He was his equal in terms of play making and passing. 3 point shooting? Pippen. But that took years of work for Pippen to develop. Better in the post? I'll give it to you, even though it isn't anything super significant. The only clear cut advantage Pippen has on Hill is on the defensive side of the ball. That's it.

I never said Pippen was much better, but their overall ability as far as scoring/rebounding/passing is damn close so defense is the tiebreaker.



**** outta here acting like that was all Scottie Pippen.

:oldlol:

Dude inherited a club that just went on a three year Championship run, and had loads of confidence, and experience.

And that year had two other all stars besides, Pippen. Both Grant and Armstrong were named NBA All Stars.

Point was they lost in the 2nd round. Pippen outstanding as he was, and with a vet crew with LOADS of Championship experience led them to a 2nd round exit. Do you get an award for that or something?

Hill never had a team coming off 3 years of CHAMPIONSHIP experience. And was an immediate SUPERSTAR caliber impact player from his rookie season on wards. Situations are entirely different. Hill was the franchise. Pippen was a supporting character all the way until 1994 when he had blossomed under a superior player's tutelage and inherited a very good ball club.

How you could even compare the team success of Hill to Scottie Pippen's 1994 Bulls team is beyond ridiculous. Look at the huge drop off the next year after they lost Horace Grant?

The team won championships with Jordan. That wasn't that talented of a team without Jordan and they also had to adjust to Jordan's sudden retirement. Pippen did a remarkable job leading that team to 55 wins. Hill played with proven champions too in Joe Dumars and Otis Thorpe. Thorpe was still a productive power forward despite being past his prime. Not on Horace Grant's level, but then again Hill's teams didn't get as far as Pippen's. He also played with Allan Houston and Jerry Stackhouse who were bigger scoring threats than anyone on the Bulls aside from Pippen during Jordan's absence.

BJ Armstrong? He was a more questionable all-star than Mo Williams. He was basically a shooter. Pippen had a good defensive power forward who could rebound, finish and hit mid-range jumpers and good shooters and a good versatile sixth man in Kukoc, but that wasn't some incredible cast.

Of course they fell off after Grant left, Pippen then ended up leading the team in scoring, rebounding, assists, steals and blocks and who was their "power forward"? Toni Kukoc? And the team was still above .500 without Jordan.

[Desperado]

Just saw Pippen gets absolutely LOCKED UP by Chris Mills. u mad Desperado and Fatal?

Watching Mashburn drop a career high 50 pts on the GOAT perimeter defender right now.


Of course but Jordan walked on water, opened the eyes of the blind, raised a man from the dead and cured the sick.

[97 bulls]

You shouldn't even be allowed to discuss '97 Bulls vs '86 Celtics. You thought Greg Kite was apart of the '86 Celtics 8 man rotation.
:roll:
Dude, you're a poser. Let it go. I admit I made a mistake. It was almost 30 years ago. And it greg friggn kite. Geeze

[1987_Lakers]

Dude, you're a poser. Let it go. I admit I made a mistake. It was almost 30 years ago. And it greg friggn kite. Geeze

Greg Kite = GOAT
:bowdown:

[Desperado]

Do people realize that '94 Bulls team was supposed to fall apart after Jordan retired?

The Bulls were set up to fail and a lot of sports critics thought Chicago wouldn't even make the playoffs after MJ abruptly retired in October of '93.

Even Phil Jackson predicted the Bulls would slip 15 games in his autobiography Sacred Hoops based on how other past teams fell apart after their star player left.

[97 bulls]

He was his equal in terms of play making and passing. 3 point shooting? Pippen. But that took years of work for Pippen to develop. Better in the post? I'll give it to you, even though it isn't anything super significant. The only clear cut advantage Pippen has on Hill is on the defensive side of the ball. That's it.


**** outta here acting like that was all Scottie Pippen.

:oldlol:

Dude inherited a club that just went on a three year Championship run, and had loads of confidence, and experience.

And that year had two other all stars besides, Pippen. Both Grant and Armstrong were named NBA All Stars.

Point was they lost in the 2nd round. Pippen outstanding as he was, and with a vet crew with LOADS of Championship experience led them to a 2nd round exit. Do you get an award for that or something?

Hill never had a team coming off 3 years of CHAMPIONSHIP experience. And was an immediate SUPERSTAR caliber impact player from his rookie season on wards. Situations are entirely different. Hill was the franchise. Pippen was a supporting character all the way until 1994 when he had blossomed under a superior player's tutelage and inherited a very good ball club.

How you could even compare the team success of Hill to Scottie Pippen's 1994 Bulls team is beyond ridiculous. Look at the huge drop off the next year after they lost Horace Grant?
Then how come armstrong and grant couldn't make an allstar team while jordan was there? It cuz pippen was like magic and set those guys up and put them in positions to flourish. But don't act like when jordan retired you didn't say to yourself "oh shit e are screwd". And I know the last thing on your mind was "we'll be okay, cuz we have championship experience".

And the 95 bulls had a rotation that consisted of pete meyers, jojo english, and larry krystwiak. pippens next best player was second year toni kukoc. All this and he kept them above .500.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Then how come armstrong and grant couldn't make an allstar team while jordan was there? It cuz pippen was like magic and set those guys up and put them in positions to flourish.

This is incredibly disingenuous, because Grant and Armstrong had comparable/equal level seasons playing with Jordan as they did without him in '94, and also because it fails to account for the fact that "hey, we just lost a 30/6/6 player - of course the stats of our #3 and 4 players are going to improve."

[97 bulls]

late 90s Hill vs. '92-'96 Pippen how I see it...

- Hill had a better handle, more "guard-like" and a more explosive first step. Could beat his man easier off the dribble and was better at getting to the rim in a half court setting.
- Pippen, especially after '93, unquestionably had a better jumper and more range (and yes, I know Pip's jumper could be quite inconsistent). Pippen was also a better post scorer.
- Pippen was better in the open court, and because their strengths were in different areas in the half court, I'd call it even. Hill improved his jumper as his career went on, but it wasn't pretty during the late 90s.
- They are even in playmaking skills and rebounding.
- Hill was an average to good defender (feel like he gets underrated somewhat in this area, when he set his mind to it he could play good man to man D). Pippen was probably the best defender ever on the perimeter and would relentlessly disrupt the opposing team's offense. Pippen could change games to help his team win even when he was shooting 5/14 or something, Hill couldn't. It gave an added consistency to Scottie's game because your offense can betray you. Some of Pip's best games are where he scores 10 points but locks down the other team's star while patrolling the entire court with his long arms.

Hill was very good. Couple of his Pistons teams didn't have much, old ass Dumars was his next best player, he would win 50+ games with that team and was top 3 in MVP voting (behind Malone and MJ). Pippen was better though, he could do everything Hill could but dominate the game at both ends. That's really the only area where you can separate the two and Pippen has a considerable edge.
Great post fatal. Pip dominated defensivly like a great defensive center.

[Fatal9]

Do people realize that '94 Bulls team was supposed to fall apart after Jordan retired?
If Scottie played the 10 games at the start of the season, they actually would have had a better record than the '93 team. And if Grant was healthy like he was in '93, they would have won 60+ (this would have given them the best record in the league and HCA). Pippen/Grant missed 22 games in '94 compared to 4 in '93. Could you imagine if they won more games that year, which they certainly would have if Pip/Grant didn't miss all those games? That would have been hard to explain. They also improved defensively despite the alleged "GOAT" defender leaving. A lot of things about the '94 Bulls just don't make sense...

[97 bulls]

This is incredibly disingenuous, because Grant and Armstrong had comparable/equal level seasons playing with Jordan as they did without him in '94, and also because it fails to account for the fact that "hey, we just lost a 30/6/6 player - of course the stats of our #3 and 4 players are going to improve."this is true. But like shaq attack said armstrong had no business making the allstar game. But point taken

[97 bulls]

If Scottie played the 10 games at the start of the season, they actually would have had a better record than the '93 team. And if Grant was healthy like he was in '93, they would have won 60+ (this would have given them the best record in the league and HCA). Pippen/Grant missed 22 games in '94 compared to 4 in '93. Could you imagine if they won more games that year, which they certainly would have if Pip/Grant didn't miss all those games? That would have been hard to explain. They also improved defensively despite the alleged "GOAT" defender leaving. A lot of things about the '94 Bulls just don't make sense...
It makes sense. Pippen was a great leader. And was dominate in his own right.