Who has the most pure talent: Prime Tracy McGrady or Lebron James?

[hateraid]

If you took away all the intangibles like heart, will, leadership, stuff like that, just pure skill.

I think Tracy had the better range, ball handling, and shot, while Lebron has the edge in court vision and athleticism. Probably the two most skilled players in the last decade.

Who you got?

[Sarcastic]

Lebron by a pretty decent margin.

[Yung D-Will]

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[Kobe8]

I Say T-Mac , He put up some sick stats back then 30+ppg and T-Mac Just landed on the wrong team.

If T-mac landed on a team like spurs , hes maturity and skill level will prolly top kobe.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Tough choice, Tracy was the smoother player, but Lebron is faster and a lot more powerful and has a better vert(though T-Mac was no slouch there).

T-Mac was a better shooter, off the ball player and he had longer arms. I think he had more of a scorer's mentality as well. Might've been a better ball handler, though Lebron's handles are incredible for his size. While T-Mac was a great passer, I'll give Lebron the edge there. Rebounding is close.

Talent is pretty close, unfortunately, T-Mac didn't maintain his peak level of play(2003), in fact, while he was elite in other seasons, he was never at that level any other season.

[magnax1]

Lebron was faster, stronger, they could probably jump about equally high. TMac had much larger hands and much longer arms. Probably Lebron, just because TMac had a lot more skill to get to a similar level of play of Lebron.

[SinJackal]

LeBron for me by decent but not big margin. His physical attributes are part of his talent. They dwarf T-Mac's talents imo, not in stats, but in the fact that he can mesh well with other good players and T-Mac couldn't.

T-Mac was one of my favorite players for the first half of the last decade though. Didn't get enough attention for his skills since he wasn't on any winners.

[DuMa]

TMac at his peak was an absolute complete player. There wasnt anything he could not do based on individual play. just didnt and never had a complete team. and then injuries killed his career. Its been a sad career for him. Lebron has more talent but never utilized all of them to become as complete as a player as TMac had. However we see Lebron as more of a disappointment because he has so much potential and doesnt utilize all of them.

[tpols]

Tmac was a longer kobe; extremely skilled at all facets of the game, incredibly clutch, and could pile on points quick.

Lebron is only slightly more talented because lebron is a physical beast.

[ShaqAttack3234]

LeBron for me by decent but not big margin. His physical attributes are part of his talent. They dwarf T-Mac's talents imo, not in stats, but in the fact that he can mesh well with other good players and T-Mac couldn't.

T-Mac was one of my favorite players for the first half of the last decade though. Didn't get enough attention for his skills since he wasn't on any winners.

I think the OP mentioned, excluding intangibles.

T-Mac is also one of my favorite players and people forget that earlier in his career, he was a versatile defensive player.

And I won't hold him not winning against him, his teams were trash. Atleast Lebron's lesser casts played defense, hustled and he had serviceable big men, not a 300+ pound Shawn Kemp who stood out there and bricked jumpers.

[hateraid]

I think the OP mentioned, excluding intangibles.

T-Mac is also one of my favorite players and people forget that earlier in his career, he was a versatile defensive player.

And I won't hold him not winning against him, his teams were trash. Atleast Lebron's lesser casts played defense, hustled and he had serviceable big men, not a 300+ pound Shawn Kemp who stood out there and bricked jumpers.

That I did. Based solely on talent.

[ZenMaster]

What's the difference between pure talent and talent?

[hateraid]

What's the difference between pure talent and talent?
Same thing I guess. Just emphasizing the point of talent, and not intangibles.

[Ikill]

tmac its about even

[thejumpa]

I'd say LeBron is the better ball handler. However, with everything considered I'd probably say that T-Mac had more pure talent. The only thing separating them is LeBrons insane athleticism, strength, and ball handling.

[ZenMaster]

Same thing I guess. Just emphasizing the point of talent, and not intangibles.

OK, so are we talking basketball technical skills and not taking in account athletic advantages?

[tpols]

OP tell me if I'm right.

You mean who had a overall better package right before they entered the nba (as in talent+skill) to excel in the league right?

[Sarcastic]

OK, so are we talking basketball technical skills and not taking in account athletic advantages?

Lebron still has better technical skills than McGrady.

[stickfigure87]

lebron. his athleticism is unmatched. though mcgrady has the better skill set

[magnax1]

Lebron still has better technical skills than McGrady.
What? What is he better at?

[Sarcastic]

What? What is he better at?

Ball handling, rebounding, passing, defense, overall scoring.

The only place where McGrady has a slight edge is outside shooting.

[tpols]

Lebron still has better technical skills than McGrady.
lol

Advantages
ballhandling-equal
posting-tmac
jumpshooting-tmac
range (3pt)-tmac
passing-equal
rebounding-lebron(and not because of skill but rather size)

WTF are you talking about?

[tpols]

Ball handling, rebounding, passing, defense, overall scoring.

The only place where McGrady has a slight edge is outside shooting.
:facepalm lebron is a better scorer because of his athleticism and penetrating ability not because of his skills. Dude's shot is wack, footwork is ass, and he has no range. You're prolly one of those guys using assists to justify him being a better passer too:facepalm

Your post fails on so many levels.

[Rose]

Probably T-Mac. It's close either way though.

[magnax1]

Ball handling, rebounding, passing, defense, overall scoring.

The only place where McGrady has a slight edge is outside shooting.
Not a better ball handler, not a better rebounder (prime, not career) not as good of a defender, not as good of a scorer.
What.... None of that is true. The only one that has merit is passing, and TMac had better vision, Lebron just has better execution.
Am I the only one that doesn't agree with any of this?

[Ikill]

lol

Advantages
ballhandling-equal
posting-tmac
jumpshooting-tmac
range (3pt)-tmac
passing-equal
rebounding-lebron(and not because of skill but rather size)

WTF are you talking about?
i say tmac is a better ball handler and lebron is better passer

[Ikill]

Not a better ball handler, not a better rebounder (prime, not career) not as good of a defender, not as good of a scorer.
What.... None of that is true. The only one that has merit is passing, and TMac had better vision, Lebron just has better execution.
Am I the only one that doesn't agree with any of this?
i don' agree either

[tpols]

Not a better ball handler, not a better rebounder (prime, not career) not as good of a defender, not as good of a scorer.
What.... None of that is true. The only one that has merit is passing, and TMac had better vision, Lebron just has better execution.
Am I the only one that doesn't agree with any of this?
Sarcastic just made one of the dumbest stetments in ISH history. Peak for peak tmac is neck and neck with kobe (and he isn't anymore athletic than him). So does lebron possess more skill than kobe?:lol Did you ever watch tmac? He was an elite jumpshooter which equals SKILL!

[ZenMaster]

Ball handling, rebounding, passing, defense, overall scoring.

The only place where McGrady has a slight edge is outside shooting.

You might have misunderstood the thread.

[Sarcastic]

You might have misunderstood the thread.

The question is: who has more talent?
The answer is: Lebron James.

Not only is he one of the most physically gifted players of all time, he is extremely talented too. That is what makes him one of the greatest players of all time.

[ZenMaster]

The question is: who has more talent?
The answer is: Lebron James.

Not only is he one of the most physically gifted players of all time, he is extremely talented too. That is what makes him one of the greatest players of all time.

I don't believe he was more talented than McGrady from a skill level stand point.

Better overall prospect though because of his big advantage in physicality.

[Sarcastic]

I don't believe he was more talented than McGrady from a skill level stand point.

Better overall prospect though because of his big advantage in physicality.

Lebron James' skill set is absolutely amazing.

I can't believe people are trying to downplay his abilities.

As a matter of fact, I think it was McGrady who used his physical gifts slightly more than Lebron. He used his extremely long arms to an incredible advantage.

[TheGrassIsGreen]

Lebron still has better technical skills than McGrady.


Have you seen Lebron's jumpshot? It's hideous. There's no wonder why he airballs more than your average superstar.

That said, Lebron's athleticism edges him over McGrady.

[tpols]

Lebron James' skill set is absolutely amazing.

I can't believe people are trying to downplay his abilities.

As a matter of fact, I think it was McGrady who used his physical gifts slightly more than Lebron. He used his extremely long arms to an incredible advantage.
Lebron is a slasher. He relies on his speed and strength to penetrate and creat opportunities form himself and his teammates.

Tmac was an elite jumpshooter. His game heavily resembled kobe's and VC's when he was with the nets.

Tmac, just like kobe, was much more skilled. it's not even a question. Lebron is just more athletic, which more than makes up the distance.

[Sarcastic]

Have you seen Lebron's jumpshot? It's hideous. There's no wonder why he airballs more than your average superstar.

That said, Lebron's athleticism edges him over McGrady.

I said McGrady has the better shot.

[New York Knicks]

Tmac was a longer kobe; extremely skilled at all facets of the game, incredibly clutch, and could pile on points quick.

Lebron is only slightly more talented because lebron is a physical beast.
Longer, much more athletic Kobe.

[Sarcastic]

Lebron is a slasher. He relies on his speed and strength to penetrate and creat opportunities form himself and his teammates.

Tmac was an elite jumpshooter. His game heavily resembled kobe's and VC's when he was with the nets.

Tmac, just like kobe, was much more skilled. it's not even a question. Lebron is just more athletic, which more than makes up the distance.

McGrady was a slasher too. I don't where you are getting this idea that all he did was shoot jumpers. He used those long arms to get around people all the time and to get to spots around the floor for his mid range shot.

[TheGrassIsGreen]

I said McGrady has the better shot.


Yes, but you were talking about technical skills.

[magnax1]

The question is: who has more talent?
The answer is: Lebron James.

Not only is he one of the most physically gifted players of all time, he is extremely talented too. That is what makes him one of the greatest players of all time.
Physical gifts=Talent
Skill=Everything else

[Sarcastic]

Yes, but you were talking about technical skills.

Is shooting the only technical skill?

[ZenMaster]

Lebron James' skill set is absolutely amazing.

I can't believe people are trying to downplay his abilities.

As a matter of fact, I think it was McGrady who used his physical gifts slightly more than Lebron. He used his extremely long arms to an incredible advantage.

I'm not downplaying his abilities because I think somebody else had better pure basketball talent.

McGrady is one of the most talented players ever. But he's not built like a tank like Lebron is. McGrady has also had a lot of injuries. Imagine prime McGrady with 30-50 pounds more muscle without reducing his speed and he'd be better than Lebron.

[jbot]

What's the difference between pure talent and talent?
where does "god given talent" fit in at?:lol

i think LBJ would stomp a mudhole in prime T-Mac's ass.

[Sarcastic]

Physical gifts=Talent
Skill=Everything else

If physical gifts=talent, then Lebron James has him beat; which is what the OP asked.

[magnax1]

If physical gifts=talent, then Lebron James has him beat; which is what the OP asked.
I agree.

[Lebron23]

where does "god given talent" fit in at?:lol

i think LBJ would stomp a mudhole in prime T-Mac's ass.

This

I watched Prime Tracy Mcgrady, and he's not as talented as LeBron. That's why he never won an NBA playoffs series.

[joyner82]

It's LeBron. McGrady is vastly overrated and he was an inefficient chucker for much of his career just like Iverson. The guy had 1 great season and that was it.

[Sarcastic]

Look, I am not trying to knock McGrady. I think he is a hall of famer. But he is just not as good as Lebron in any way, except for shooting.
Lebron can play PG-PF. McGrady can't.

[Jacks3]

Probably the two most skilled players in the last decade.


Kobe is more skilled than both.

[Lebron23]

It's LeBron. McGrady is vastly overrated and he was an inefficient chucker for much of his career just like Iverson. The guy had 1 great season and that was it.


He was a 2x NBA Scoring champion.

[TheGrassIsGreen]

Is shooting the only technical skill?


No, but I fail to see any other technical skills that make Lebron's superior McGrady's.

[Jacks3]

I McGrady is vastly overrated and he was an inefficient chucker for much of his career just like Iverson.
Actually in his prime his TS% numbers were above league average.

[ZenMaster]

Look, I am not trying to knock McGrady. I think he is a hall of famer. But he is just not as good as Lebron in any way, except for shooting.
Lebron can play PG-PF. McGrady can't.

McGrady could play position 1-3. The only reason he couldn't play the 4 is physical. Which is the same reason why Lebron can play the 4.

And I didn't say you where trying to knock McGrady...

Again we're talking talent and potential here, not accomplishments.

McGrady's talent is untapped, which is a shame.

Talent and potential wise they're still very close, but I'd give the edge to McGrady.

[joyner82]

He was a 2x NBA Scoring champion.

28 ppg on 23.4 FGA is not impressive. Impressive is what Durant and LeBron did last year which was 30 ppg on 20 FGA

[Sarcastic]

McGrady could play position 1-3. The only reason he couldn't play the 4 is physical. Which is the same reason why Lebron can play the 4.

And I didn't say you where trying to knock McGrady...

Again we're talking talent and potential here, not accomplishments.

McGrady's talent is untapped, which is a shame.

Talent and potential wise they're still very close, but I'd give the edge to McGrady.

I really think Lebron is a better PG than McGrady. I am sure McGrady could pull it off, but I think Lebron does it better.

[tpols]

28 ppg on 23.4 FGA is not impressive. Impressive is what Durant and LeBron did last year which was 30 ppg on 20 FGA
lol peak for peak scoring seasons, mcgrady shot .04% less efficiently than lebron. GTFO,

Pre-injury mcgrady was one of the best in the game.

[ZenMaster]

I really think Lebron is a better PG than McGrady. I am sure McGrady could pull it off, but I think Lebron does it better.

Could be, but I still don't think he has more pure talent.

[kabalcage]

LeBron James easily.

LeBron has the most speed
the best acceleration
the most force (greater force than Mike Tyson punch)
the best lateral speed
the highest vertical leap
the greatest strength of perimeter players (only Shaq and Greg Oden are stronger if you consider bigs)

It would be to our nations benefit if we reproduced him with our best and brightest women to create our nation's future leaders.

LeBron James is the most genetically gifted athlete in the history of Western Civilization.


His natural talents dwarf any kind of skill that Tracy "1st round virgin" McGrady could ever dream of.

[tpols]

I really think Lebron is a better PG than McGrady. I am sure McGrady could pull it off, but I think Lebron does it better.
And mcgrady is the better shooting guard:confusedshrug:

Talent wise, they are very close to each other for the SF.

Whats the point?

[ZenMaster]

lol peak for peak scoring seasons, mcgrady shot .04% less efficiently than lebron. GTFO,

Pre-injury mcgrady was one of the best in the game.

Yeah there's a difference between FG% and TS% or PPS.

[tpols]

LeBron James easily.

LeBron has the most speed
the best acceleration
the most force (greater force than Mike Tyson punch)
the best lateral speed
the highest vertical leap
the greatest strength of perimeter players (only Shaq and Greg Oden are stronger if you consider bigs)

It would be to our nations benefit if we reproduced him with our best and brightest women to create our nation's future leaders.

LeBron James is the most genetically gifted athlete in the history of Western Civilization.


His natural talents dwarf any kind of skill that Tracy "1st round virgin" McGrady could ever dream of.
:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm

[tpols]

Yeah there's a difference between FG% and TS% or PPS.
Just like there's a difference between player's ft% and 3pt%

[Sarcastic]

And mcgrady is the better shooting guard:confusedshrug:

Talent wise, they are very close to each other for the SF.

Whats the point?

By playing a better PG, that means he is a better passer and playmaker. McGrady playing a better SG just further verifies that he is a better shooter, which I have already conceded to in several posts.

[gyu]

^ 'only greg and shaq are stronger if including bigs' :roll: :roll: :roll:

Vertical jump is about even, I think people forgot McGrady used to get head level with the rim as does LeBron now.
Fastest lateral speed? Then he must be the GOAT defender

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYnskAufGwM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4K2VqzWrEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_eGS1DqHK8


Not saying these videos shows who is better but good watch nonetheless, btw I was not specifically looking for vids of T-Mac destroying LeBron but those are the results if you look up 'tracy mcgrady lebron james'

[Ikill]

LeBron James easily.

LeBron has the most speed
the best acceleration
the most force (greater force than Mike Tyson punch)
the best lateral speed
the highest vertical leap
the greatest strength of perimeter players (only Shaq and Greg Oden are stronger if you consider bigs)

It would be to our nations benefit if we reproduced him with our best and brightest women to create our nation's future leaders.

LeBron James is the most genetically gifted athlete in the history of Western Civilization.


His natural talents dwarf any kind of skill that Tracy "1st round virgin" McGrady could ever dream of.
I wonder what lebrons combine numbers were i know he was 6'7 without shoes 7'0 wingspan and 245 with 6.7 body fat but i wanna know his athletic numbers i'm guessing a 38-42 inch vertical

[Ikill]

^ 'only greg and shaq are stronger if including bigs' :roll: :roll: :roll:

Vertical jump is about even, I think people forgot McGrady used to get head level with the rim as does LeBron now.
Fastest lateral speed? Then he must be the GOAT defender
one thing lebron lacks is lateral speed or maybe its just he doesn't get low on defense

[kabalcage]

:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm

I don't mean using LeBron's brains.

I imagine melding LeBron's physical gifts with some incredibly smart and motivated woman's brains.

That combination would create future astronauts, super-soldiers, leaders, and so on.

[ZenMaster]

Just like there's a difference between player's ft% and 3pt%

You clearly didn't understand that joyner was talking about PPS because you kept referring to his FG%.

[gyu]

I think people underrate T-Mac's passing and court vision too because he hasn't played well for awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfazfxrP6o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9_dPi11ko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9_dPi11ko

Also, T-Mac has a very impressive off hand whether it be passing or finishing at the rim.

[tpols]

You clearly didn't understand that joyner was talking about PPS because you kept referring to his FG%.
I think you misunderstood my post. I was saying mcgrady's TS% was .04% lower than lebron's in both of their peak scoring seasons in response to joyner calling tmac a chucker.

[Ikill]

I think people underrate T-Mac's passing and court vision too because he hasn't played well for awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfazfxrP6o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9_dPi11ko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9_dPi11ko
When players are good people never wanna believe there going to be bad i could of never imagined ai like this and when people are bad they never think they will come back like dwade in 2008

[Sarcastic]

I think people underrate T-Mac's passing and court vision too because he hasn't played well for awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rfazfxrP6o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9_dPi11ko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9_dPi11ko

Also, T-Mac has a very impressive off hand whether it be passing or finishing at the rim.

It's not underrating McGrady to say he is not better than Lebron. It's the truth.

[jbot]

It's not underrating McGrady to say he is not better than Lebron. It's the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM :lol

[ZenMaster]

I think you misunderstood my post. I was saying mcgrady's TS% was .04% lower than lebron's in both of their peak scoring seasons in response to joyner calling tmac a chucker.

My bad

Lebron had a TS% of 60 last season though and he was only .3 off from his peak scoring, but he also played 1.4 mpg less.

I guess it sort of depends on how you rate peak scoring, by volume or by effectiveness.

[eliteballer]

Eh, pretty much a wash. McGrady was doing a lot of similar things.

6-9, dunking from near the FT line in games, windmills off backboards, getting head at the rim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZg6Y0BA4iE

Better body control:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuDFLKVW8vE

Quicker in the halfcourt. Better handles, better shot. LeBron stronger and slightly faster in the open court.

[Indian guy]

T-Mac had the more diverse offensive game. Better shooter and was a top 3 triple threat player for a good 3-4 year stretch. LeBron's lacking in both areas. That said, those are T-Mac's only definite edges over LeBron. LeBron's the better athlete, better passer, more consistent defender, better ball handler(yes, T-Mac's handle outside of iso situations wasn't anything to write about) and his strengths(finishing) are far more dominant than T-Mac's strengths. That is why LeBron's managed to be an elite scorer pretty much his whole career. T-Mac on the other hand only had 1 great scoring season. He did a lot of things well, but wasn't great at anything.

[eliteballer]

^You sound like a jilted lover I-G:oldlol:

[tpols]

T-Mac had the more diverse offensive game. Better shooter and was a top 3 triple threat player for a good 3-4 year stretch. LeBron's lacking in both areas. That said, those are T-Mac's only definite edges over LeBron. LeBron's the better athlete, better passer, more consistent defender, better ball handler(yes, T-Mac's handle outside of iso situations wasn't anything to write about) and his strengths(finishing) are far more dominant than T-Mac's strengths. That is why LeBron's managed to be an elite scorer pretty much his whole career. T-Mac on the other hand only had 1 great scoring season. He did a lot of things well, but wasn't great at anything.
Tmac has 2 scoring titles to lebron's 1. I'd say he was a better scorer than lebron.

He was a great scorer.

[ronnymac]

T-Mac had the more diverse offensive game. Better shooter and was a top 3 triple threat player for a good 3-4 year stretch. LeBron's lacking in both areas. That said, those are T-Mac's only definite edges over LeBron. LeBron's the better athlete, better passer, more consistent defender, better ball handler(yes, T-Mac's handle outside of iso situations wasn't anything to write about) and his strengths(finishing) are far more dominant than T-Mac's strengths. That is why LeBron's managed to be an elite scorer pretty much his whole career. T-Mac on the other hand only had 1 great scoring season. He did a lot of things well, but wasn't great at anything.
2 great seasons. And with the rockets he was a 25-5-5 player for the first two seasons. Then injuries happend.

[RazorBaLade]

I don't mean using LeBron's brains.

I imagine melding LeBron's physical gifts with some incredibly smart and motivated woman's brains.

That combination would create future astronauts, super-soldiers, leaders, and so on.

I don't really think that exactly how genetics work, you don't just get genes from your parents. You get them from their parents and so on, if Lebron and a gifted woman had a kid, then that kid + another kid from like michael phelps and a gifted woman that both had decent physical traits and mental traits then their children would be the highest chance of retaining the maximum ability.

the level of that is so much more vast though, white people did that to blacks in slavery for like 150 years, it would need to continue for hundreds of years for some legit improvements to take place.

[Indian guy]

Tmac has 2 scoring titles to lebron's 1. I'd say he was a better scorer than lebron.

He was a great scorer.

His efficiency was simply dreadful when he won his 2nd scoring title. He was stuck on the league's worst team and pretty much admitted to shot-jacking his way to a scoring title that year.

As far as who's the better scorer is concerned, LeBron's consistently averaged more ppg on better efficiency than T-Mac, who only had 1 great scoring season. There's really nothing that indicates T-Mac was the superior scorer.

[ronnymac]

Tmac was a volume scorer while lebron is more methodical. LBJ just wears people down by his physical strength while mcgrady was more of a volume shooter who in bursts would tear people into shreds. Two different offensive players by far

[Yuki Nagato]

It would be to our nations benefit if we reproduced him with our best and brightest women to create our nation's future leaders.

[...]

I imagine melding LeBron's physical gifts with some incredibly smart and motivated woman's brains.

That combination would create future astronauts, super-soldiers, leaders, and so on.


Yeah, the nietzsche's

[tpols]

His efficiency was simply dreadful when he won his 2nd scoring title. He was stuck on the league's worst team and pretty much admitted to shot-jacking his way to a scoring title that year.

As far as who's the better scorer is concerned, LeBron's consistently averaged more ppg on better efficiency than T-Mac, who only had 1 great scoring season. There's really nothing that indicates T-Mac was the superior scorer.
and what about his first one :oldlol:

[DCL]

lebron does it better, but tmac made it look better. he was like a 6'9" derrick rose with a jump shot.

[Samurai Swoosh]

McGrady was a much more refined offensive talent. LeBron simply produces more, and is much more effecient. I'd rather have a prime McGrady on my team though.

[plowking]

McGrady was a much more refined offensive talent. LeBron simply produces more, and is much more effecient. I'd rather have a prime McGrady on my team though.
Come on Samurai...

[Samurai Swoosh]

Come on Samurai...
And?

I respect what McGrady brings to the table not just on the floor production wise.

If both are healthy? I'm taking prime T-Mac.

James is mentally soft. In other words, a male ****** that one has proved to be.

[Sarcastic]

Tmac has 2 scoring titles to lebron's 1. I'd say he was a better scorer than lebron.

He was a great scorer.

Lebron is only 25 years old. Lebron is a much better scorer than McGrady. When they are done with their careers, Lebron will have a higher scoring average than Tracy.

[DCL]

but anyway, what is "pure talent" anyway? is it sickness that is not really
"fundamental"... meaning you can pull and attempt ridiculous sh!t out of nowhere to make plays and amaze even an old school coach but if anybody else tried it, it would make them think "wtf are you doing? come back to the bench, dumb ass"

[Sarcastic]

Lebron James: will finish somewhere in the top 10 all time GOAT list
Tracy McGrady: will not

End of story.

[plowking]

And?

I respect what McGrady brings to the table not just on the floor production wise.

If both are healthy? I'm taking prime T-Mac.

James is mentally soft. In other words, a male ****** that one has proved to be.

When has T-Mac proved to be mentally strong? Can't get past the 1st round, cries when he doesn't get his way, wants to be the man today when he clearly isn't fit to be it.

How is James mentally soft?

[catch24]

And?

I respect what McGrady brings to the table not just on the floor production wise.

If both are healthy? I'm taking prime T-Mac.

James is mentally soft. In other words, a male ****** that one has proved to be.

I gotta disagree with you here, Swoosh. Not only is LeBron a more efficient scorer, but also the more complete offensive player (assists/passing, getting to the FT line etc). I won't get into rebounding, but LeBron's defense which includes blocking shots and defending the other teams best perimeter player (usually) is what separates both of them.

[catch24]

When has T-Mac proved to be mentally strong? Can't get past the 1st round, cries when he doesn't get his way, wants to be the man today when he clearly isn't fit to be it.

How is James mentally soft?

Leading your team to the Finals at what, 21 (?) makes you soft apparently. While he may not have the 'killer instinct' Kobe or Wade do, he's still damn competitive and a great leader.

[plowking]

I seriously can't wait for the season to start. Every Lebron thread he has been grossly underrated. I'm not even talking about slight shit, though massive underrating of Lebron, a two time MVP at age 25...
I mean posters saying that prime T-Mac being as good as him... come on. Prime T-Mac was great, but there is a clear distinction as to who is better.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

LeBron is honestly the new Michael Jordan. So many times i see on GOAT list here on insidehoops. MJ not being #1 guy just for the hell of it they would put him at 2nd best player of all time.

That's the same thing you guys do with LeBron. Just because Tmac had a better skill set offensively don't mean he is the better pure talent.

Give me LeBron and I am not even a Bron fan.

[gyu]

I seriously can't wait for the season to start. Every Lebron thread he has been grossly underrated. I'm not even talking about slight shit, though massive underrating of Lebron, a two time MVP at age 25...
I mean posters saying that prime T-Mac being as good as him... come on. Prime T-Mac was great, but there is a clear distinction as to who is better.
Then what makes Kobe and LeBron so close? Looking at the numbers, it's obviously not close at all.

[Sarcastic]

I seriously can't wait for the season to start. Every Lebron thread he has been grossly underrated. I'm not even talking about slight shit, though massive underrating of Lebron, a two time MVP at age 25...
I mean posters saying that prime T-Mac being as good as him... come on. Prime T-Mac was great, but there is a clear distinction as to who is better.


Check the second page. I was told I made the dumbest post in the history of ISH for saying Lebron is better all around than TMac.

[Sarcastic]

LeBron is honestly the new Michael Jordan. So many times i see on GOAT list here on insidehoops. MJ not being #1 guy just for the hell of it they would put him at 2nd best player of all time.

That's the same thing you guys do with LeBron. Just because Tmac had a better skill set offensively don't mean he is the better pure talent.

Give me LeBron and I am not even a Bron fan.

Jordan is still better than Lebron. Jordan has the killer instinct that Lebron lacks, and he is a better finisher at the rim.

[plowking]

Yeah I can't be bothered any more with the NBA forum. It's full of dumbasses for the most part.

tpols is the long lost brother of Kiddlovesnets, and it's as if he's more stupid and more annoying than his internet brother.

People have been disregarding everything Lebron has done this summer due to a few words that came out of his mouth during an interview. Being 6'8, having better handles than most point guards, having an incredible drive, being able to finish after contact, being able to dish out 9 assists at 6'8 and being the best all round player is a skill.
Doing all those things individually is a skill, and the combination of that makes Lebron possibly one of the most skilled players of all time with the likes of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Oscar who could all do it all as well.

I'm done in this bitch.

[Samurai Swoosh]

When has T-Mac proved to be mentally strong? Can't get past the 1st round, cries when he doesn't get his way, wants to be the man today when he clearly isn't fit to be it.

How is James mentally soft?
Maybe its late and I'm talking out my ass in terms of who I'd take between McGrady and LeBron. I do stand by the fact that given the right pieces around a prime McGrady (who is visibly more skilled offensively than LeBron) could achieve a lot from a team perspective with the right cast around him.

Not going to address the 1st round comment, cause that has been proven to not rest purely on McGrady's shoulders. And it's not even fair to him to put that all on him. It's utterly ridiculous actually within context.

You just described how mentally strong Mac is ... he clearly isn't fit to be "the man" but wants to prove people wrong anyway. That takes mental fortitude.

LeBron is clearly mentally soft. Bites his nailes, dips on his hometown team whom he promised to bring glory when the going got tough, LeBron got going. Had the best regular season team and/or conference team two years in a row and gets booted in the 2nd round?

:oldlol:

Takes the easy way out and chooses to align with an alpha dog player who is arguably the same caliber player he is ... and with the help of another SUPERSTAR? C'mon, I know you're a Heat fan ... but jesus christ. LeBron James is cut from a different cloth. He wants to have fun. He wants to dance.

:oldlol:

That dude is not mentally capable of being a leader. He's soft.

McGrady has a more proper mental framework to lead a team compared to LeBron. James is content being super Pippen. Ultra talented no doubt, but definitely not a leader.

[gyu]

Yeah I can't be bothered any more with the NBA forum. It's full of dumbasses for the most part.

tpols is the long lost brother of Kiddlovesnets, and it's as if he's more stupid and more annoying than his internet brother.

People have been disregarding everything Lebron has done this summer due to a few words that came out of his mouth during an interview. Being 6'8, having better handles than most point guards, having an incredible drive, being able to finish after contact, being able to dish out 9 assists at 6'8 and being the best all round player is a skill.
Doing all those things individually is a skill, and the combination of that makes Lebron possibly one of the most skilled players of all time with the likes of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Oscar who could all do it all as well.

I'm done in this bitch.
What makes Kobe and LeBron comparable? I just don't see how they are if even a 2003 T-Mac can't hold a candle to LeBron.

[catch24]

What makes Kobe and LeBron comparable? I just don't see how they are if even a 2003 T-Mac can't hold a candle to LeBron.

The reason Kobe is 'comparable' to LeBron is because of his playoff success the last 3-4 post seasons. Kobe's already proven himself. He also had back to back seasons where he won the scoring title--06 & 07' (those two seasons were better than anything Tmac's ever done IMO). The next year, 2007-2008, is when the comparisons really started...

Mcgrady had a couple of strong years, and thats it. It's silly to cherry pick a season or two and say "That's when T-Mac was close to LeBron!". LeBron's been the best player in the league longer than Mcgrady has, period.

[ronnymac]

Mcgrady had more then a couple of good season. From 2001 to the 2007-2008 he was allways averaging 24 pts or more with a consistant 5 boards 6 assist type numbers. And in Houston he had Yao so he started differing and hence he went down to 24 pts a game.Also p[eople are saying lebron is a better passer or playmaker and the fact is that it is a tossup. Guys like Gorge Karl and Jeff Van Gundy have all called McGrady the best above 6'8 playmaker they've ever seen besides Magic Johnson.

[Bigsmoke]

Lebron and its not even close.

[ZenMaster]

Check the second page. I was told I made the dumbest post in the history of ISH for saying Lebron is better all around than TMac.

I think you where told that because you talked about overall scoring ability while the OP was talking about pure skills. That's how I got it at least.

[Bigsmoke]

And?

I respect what McGrady brings to the table not just on the floor production wise.

If both are healthy? I'm taking prime T-Mac.

James is mentally soft. In other words, a male ****** that one has proved to be.

what? by being a chucker that could have never made it out the first round who also led his team to the worst record in the league before in the league IN HIS PRIME in the East?

While Lebron had the ability to shoot over 50% shooting while averaging over 28ppg while dishing almost 9 assist per game, Led his team to the finals with an even worst supporting cast than Tmacs magic, winning back to back MVPs and he only 25.

Lebron will end his career in the top 10-15 range while Tmac is around 60-70.

face the the truth.

[Rose]

the question is who has more PURE TALENT PRIME Tracy or LeBronze James

Winning doesn't matter, because if it did regardless, LeBronze is a quitter, anti-clutch. Tracy is anti-clutch himself, and obviously never got past the first round, but seldom has he had the team to do so.

But back to the question PRIME tracy 03 T-mac that is. Had more skills. Better scorer, and finisher. playmaker, and arguably defender.

[Bigsmoke]

the question is who has more PURE TALENT PRIME Tracy or LeBronze James

Winning doesn't matter, because if it did regardless, LeBronze is a quitter, anti-clutch. Tracy is anti-clutch himself, and obviously never got past the first round, but seldom has he had the team to do so.

But back to the question PRIME tracy 03 T-mac that is. Had more skills. Better scorer, and finisher. playmaker, and arguably defender.

HOLY SHIT! :oldlol:

and i don't even think Tmac is even a better scorer

i mean, when scoring 32 a game on 46% shooting on a team that won 42 games is a better offensive accomplishment than scoring 30 a game on over 50% shooting on a team that won 61 games?

[Sarcastic]

I think you where told that because you talked about overall scoring ability while the OP was talking about pure skills. That's how I got it at least.

I was talking about everything including overall scoring ability, not just overall scoring ability.

[Rose]

HOLY SHIT! :oldlol:

and i don't even think Tmac is even a better scorer

i mean, when scoring 32 a game on 46% shooting on a team that won 42 games is a better offensive accomplishment than scoring 30 a game on over 50% shooting on a team that won 61 games?
won 42 with who? won 61 with a pretty good supporting cast. you don't win 61 because of one player, or by chance.

[Yung D-Will]

HOLY SHIT! :oldlol:

and i don't even think Tmac is even a better scorer

i mean, when scoring 32 a game on 46% shooting on a team that won 42 games is a better offensive accomplishment than scoring 30 a game on over 50% shooting on a team that won 61 games?


What was Lebron better at doing scoring wise then T-Mac? Besides Finishing I can't think of a single thing.

[Rose]

What was Lebron better at doing scoring wise then T-Mac? Besides Finishing I can't think of a single thing.
I don't even think he does that better because McGrady did all of his finishing in a harder foul era. If you even look at James it's automatically a foul. and he averages 1.5 fouls in this era. BULLSHIT someone's getting babied.

[Bigsmoke]

What was Lebron better at doing scoring wise then T-Mac? Besides Finishing I can't think of a single thing.


well, Tmac versatility on offense only led his Magic team to only what? 21 wins before.

Tmac was more versatile. so what?

Lebron is still a better scorer than Tmac ever was.

[Bigsmoke]

won 42 with who? won 61 with a pretty good supporting cast. you don't win 61 because of one player, or by chance.

Lebron MADE the Cavs. Mo Williams and Shaq were hurt and both had subpar seasons all year long and Jamison wasnt a Cav until February. Who the did Lebron had? Tmac was playing in the East when it was at its all time worst and still could get out of the first round losing to the Hornets and shit lol

[Rose]

Lebron MADE the Cavs. Mo Williams and Shaq were hurt and both had subpar seasons all year long and Jamison wasnt a Cav until February. Who the did Lebron had? Tmac was playing in the East when it was at its all time worst and still could get out of the first round losing to the Hornets and shit lol
Uhm...Michael, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Kareem didn't ever win 61 on their own...and I'm pretty sure they're all better than him. So....you don't win 61 on your own, regardless of whether or not you get every call. and in all fairness they lost to the 03 Pistons, and probably would have won if not for the "how does it feel to finally be out of the first round Tracy?" Pretty good! when they were up 3-1. against a number one overall seeded Pistons.

[ImmortalD24]

LeBron James

[Bigsmoke]

Uhm...Michael, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Kareem didn't ever win 61 on their own...and I'm pretty sure they're all better than him. So....you don't win 61 on your own, regardless of whether or not you get every call. and in all fairness they lost to the 03 Pistons, and probably would have won if not for the "how does it feel to finally be out of the first round Tracy?" Pretty good! when they were up 3-1. against a number one overall seeded Pistons.

u still didnt answer my question. Who else did Lebron had? I said Mo and Shaq were mediocre and Jamison never had a Cav jersey until Feb and still didnt answer my question.

if anything, losing a series after being up 3-1 just started me to question Tmac's more about his greatness. How could we forget about him losing to the Mavs after stilling 2 of their home games and losing the the Jazz after winning the first 2 games and being up 3-2.

[Yung D-Will]

well, Tmac versatility on offense only led his Magic team to only what? 21 wins before.

Tmac was more versatile. so what?

Lebron is still a better scorer than Tmac ever was.

How we he a better scorer then T-Mac? Explain this to me?

Was he a three point shooter? Had a better post up game? Had a better Mid range game? Better clutch scorer?


Or is your argument basically based on the fact that he's more efficient?

The same argument people use to say Dwight Howard is a better scorer then Yao and the same argument people use to justify saying that A.I wasn't one of the greatest scorers of all time.

[whatever666]

If you took away all the intangibles like heart, will, leadership, stuff like that, just pure skill.

I think Tracy had the better range, ball handling, and shot, while Lebron has the edge in court vision and athleticism. Probably the two most skilled players in the last decade.

Who you got?

ahahahaahahhahaahahaha

please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T-Mac HAS AND NEVER HAD ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING ON LEBRON!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND LOL @ T-MAC BEING THE OTHER MOST SKILLED PLAYER OF THE DECADE!!! NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

T-MAC WAS NOTHING BUT A SHOTJACKER!!! HIS TYPICAL FG% AT HIS PRIME WAS AROUND 41% WITH LIKE 24 FG ATTEMPTS A GAME!!

Sorry for the reaction! But some opinions can make me just explode!!! RIDICILOUS OPINION!!! :facepalm

[Rose]

u still didnt answer my question. Who else did Lebron had? I said Mo and Shaq were mediocre and Jamison never had a Cav jersey until Feb and still didnt answer my question.

if anything, losing a series after being up 3-1 just started me to question Tmac's more about his greatness. How could we forget about him losing to the Mavs after stilling 2 of their home games and losing the the Jazz after winning the first 2 games and being up 3-2.

Mo is good until the postseason, kinda like someone else we're talking about http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=cle

Looks like a lot of contributors up and down the board. You're not a title favorite because of one player. Otherwise the Bulls would have had a lot more title favorite seasons.

And the magic were the EIGHTH SEED. How often does the 8 beat a one? And once again the Rockets were seeded lower against the mavs and the Jazz.

[Rose]

And Regardless This Isnt About Winning. And If It Is The "king" Who Gave Up Automatically Loses.

[BFRESH44]

The revisionist history that has gone on here post Lebron's "Decision", is hilarious to say the least. :oldlol:

[Bigsmoke]

How we he a better scorer then T-Mac? Explain this to me?

Was he a three point shooter? Had a better post up game? Had a better Mid range game? Better clutch scorer?


Or is your argument basically based on the fact that he's more efficient?

The same argument people use to say Dwight Howard is a better scorer then Yao and the same argument people use to justify saying that A.I wasn't one of the greatest scorers of all time.

hold up... Tmac is a better clutch scorer than Lebrom? Tmac stans could only bring up that 13 points in 35 seconds game. Lebron had ****ing 2 or 3 game winner in a single series before. Or what about his 25 straight points against the heavily favored Pistons? Lebron didnt shot up for the Cavs when he was putting up 38 a game against the #1 defense in the regular season in the Magic? there is NO WAY i think Tmac is a better clutch performer.

like i said, Lebron is more "efficient". Lebron shot 47% and everybody thought he an off season. Tmac is only a better shooter and that is it. who cares about a better mid range game when u are not using it for success?

[Bigsmoke]

lets be for real though, If Tmac was really that good then dont u think the Magic wouldnt have traded him?

its not like they got Paul Pierce in return but Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley. He that had to let go of Juwan Howard in that deal too. If Tmac was Lebron then they would have had Yao and much more with it.

[catch24]

lets be for real though, If Tmac was really that good then dont u think the Magic wouldnt have traded him?

You would think. Lots of Mcgrady homers coming out of the woodwork :oldlol:

[ronnymac]

He demanded the trade and not the Magic wanting to trade him.

[BFRESH44]

Like seriously...

McGrady has NEVER won a playoff series.

That is hard as F*CK to do. :eek:

[Bigsmoke]

He demanded the trade and not the Magic wanting to trade him.

so did Kobe and MJ.


o yea that reminds me, talking about being loyal :rolleyes:

[ronnymac]

so did Kobe
Whats you're point?.You are ranting and raving on here like a child. LBJ is better, but it is'nt that far fetched to think a prime McGrady was close to him?. Growup

[Rose]

hold up... Tmac is a better clutch scorer than Lebrom? Tmac stans could only bring up that 13 points in 35 seconds game. Lebron had ****ing 2 or 3 game winner in a single series before. Or what about his 25 straight points against the heavily favored Pistons? Lebron didnt shot up for the Cavs when he was putting up 38 a game against the #1 defense in the regular season in the Magic? there is NO WAY i think Tmac is a better clutch performer.

like i said, Lebron is more "efficient". Lebron shot 47% and everybody thought he an off season. Tmac is only a better shooter and that is it. who cares about a better mid range game when u are not using it for success?
Notice how you brought up the Pistons series, that wasn't even the close out game. And as for the Magic series? A. He made the shot that kept them from getting swept? and B. Didn't the cavs lead the league in D last year?

[catch24]

Whats you're point?.You are ranting and raving on here like a child. LBJ is better, but it is'nt that far fetched to think a prime McGrady was close to him?. Growup

His point is their franchises did everything to keep them (surrounding them with a relevant supporting cast).

[ronnymac]

His point is their franchises did everything to keep them (surrounding them with a relevant supporting cast).
Who??.... You mean 300 pound Shawn Kemp or a washed up Juwan Howard?The main reason he wanted out was because they werent giving him the requierd talent that he and the Magic needed to be successful

[catch24]

Who?a 300 pound Shawn Kemp or a washed up Juwan Howard?

That's the point. Orlando didn't even try to build around T-Mac.

Connect the dots...

[Bigsmoke]

Whats you're point?.You are ranting and raving on here like a child. LBJ is better, but it is'nt that far fetched to think a prime McGrady was close to him?. Growup

my point is Tmac wasnt never a dominate force that people made it out to be. the year when Tmac averaged 32ppg, everybody on ESPN still thought that Tim Duncan or KG were the clear cut MVPs. I really never remember when Tmac having an impact that Lebron had last season at all.

[ronnymac]

My goodness now you folks are reaching and reaching mightly.

[catch24]

He's a great player but dudes on here are overrating the sh*t out of him right now. lol @ him being compared to LeBron, who's season last year only rivaled a prime MJ.

[Rose]

That's the point. Orlando didn't even try to build around T-Mac.

Connect the dots...
Not their fault Grant Hill was always injured. If they had better trainers and didn't always rush their players back....Who knows.

[noob cake]

TMac is way more talented skill wise. TMac was incredibly gifted athletically, but LeBron is pretty much on a different level.

[plowking]

Through ISH I've found out that prime Grant Hill and prime T-Mac are both better players than Lebron.

Funny though, Grant and T-Mac leave their respective teams and not much heads are turned. Lebron leaves his team and has the whole country mad. But nah, T-Mac and Hill were definitely better.

[Rose]

Through ISH I've found out that prime Grant Hill and prime T-Mac are both better players than Lebron.

Funny though, Grant and T-Mac leave their respective teams and not much heads are turned. Lebron leaves his team and has the whole country mad. But nah, T-Mac and Hill were definitely better.

No one stays in Toronto, and everyone knew that Hill was probably leaving because the Pistons surrounded him with...nothing. and it's more of how he left Cleveland. I don't give a rat's ass that he left. It's how he did it that upset me.

[KenneBell]

Going to have to go with LeBron on this one.

T-Mac had the advantage in jumpshooting and maybe ballhandling but that's about it. I think LeBron is the better defender and playmaker.

Scoring is pretty even although LeBron is more efficient as he's less reliant on his jumper.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Might've been a better ball handler, though Lebron's handles are incredible for his size.

Mac was definitely a better ballhandler than Lebron. The only guy in TMac's league as a ballhandler at 6'8" or above is prime Grant Hill. Lebron is an excellent handler for his size, but McGrady was unbelievably smooth and fluid.

[ZenMaster]

I was talking about everything including overall scoring ability, not just overall scoring ability.

That's not what the OP asked about though :confusedshrug:

Doesn't matter anyways, I know what you mean, just interpreted the OP to be asking about something else. All good.

[mayo'sgrizz]

tmac is one of my fav players all time but lebron came into the league as most hyped player of all time due to his size, athletic ability, and talent.

lebron by good bit

[CambyLandCan]

Out of pure basketball talent it's McGrady, but Mcgrady was never the team player Lebron was which is why Lebron always has been and always will be greater than Mcgrady.

[Indian guy]

Mac was definitely a better ballhandler than Lebron. The only guy in TMac's league as a ballhandler at 6'8" or above is prime Grant Hill. Lebron is an excellent handler for his size, but McGrady was unbelievably smooth and fluid.

In 1-on-1 situations, yes, but he was very ordinary when it came to pick n roll play or any situation where he had to get around multiple defenders with a live dribble. You'll never see T-Mac zigzagging around multiple defenders from the top of the key.

[Samurai Swoosh]

In 1-on-1 situations, yes, but he was very ordinary when it came to pick n roll play or any situation where he had to get around multiple defenders with a live dribble. You'll never see T-Mac zigzagging around multiple defenders from the top of the key.
Who zigs and zags as you put it ... on a pick and roll? The point of the two man play is basic, and there would be no need for the ball handler to zig or zag. Are you literally making up basketball situations to elevate LeBron in comparison to T-Mac? Because even so LeBron doesn't do that either, you're not supposed to ...

If you're acting like McGrady couldn't split defenders with his dribble, you're delusional. McGrady all around has a better handle than LeBron.

[gyu]

He's a great player but dudes on here are overrating the sh*t out of him right now. lol @ him being compared to LeBron, who's season last year only rivaled a prime MJ.
How is Kobe even arguable for best player if LeBron had a season only rivaled by the GOAT? Accolades and accomplishments aside.

[ZenMaster]

Who zigs and zags as you put it ... on a pick and roll? The point of the two man play is basic, and there would be no need for the ball handler to zig or zag. Are you literally making up basketball situations to elevate LeBron in comparison to T-Mac? Because even so LeBron doesn't do that either, you're not supposed to ...

If you're acting like McGrady couldn't split defenders with his dribble, you're delusional. McGrady all around has a better handle than LeBron.

zig zag equals splitting the defense?

http://www.hoopsplaybook.ca/tactics/fig/bill_self_ballscreens2.png

[catch24]

How is Kobe even arguable for best player if LeBron had a season only rivaled by the GOAT? Accolades and accomplishments aside.

I've already explained this. No, you can't toss accolades and accomplishments aside because that goes hand in hand with a players performance (LeBron's MVP and Kobe's FMVP). Kobe's playoff series along with his Final MVPs are why he's compared to LeBron. Kobe's led his team to 2x championships, he's a winner. You're comparing a player who had a GREAT season to a guy who won MVP and had an HISTORIC season (first player to average 30 on 50% since '92 MJ).

[Indian guy]

Who zigs and zags as you put it ... on a pick and roll?

When did I say that? I meant ANY play where T-Mac created from the top of the key. You pretty much never saw him changing direction more than once and going around multiple defenders.

Speaking of pick n rolls, you almost never saw T-Mac splitting those either.

[Samurai Swoosh]

zig zag equals splitting the defense?

http://www.hoopsplaybook.ca/tactics/fig/bill_self_ballscreens2.png
You just call it splitting the double team. You slice the on coming help defender on the pick and roll ... and McGrady has done that plenty of times.

[ZenMaster]

You just call it splitting the double team. You slice the un coming hel defender on the pick and roll ... and McGrady has done that plenty of times.

Yeah I was just trying to show that maybe if he didn't know what it was called it might be natural to refer to it as a zig zag. Might be natural to cal it that I don't know, but it's a possibility. Draw it on a whiteboard and it's basically zig zag movement.

[FindingTim]

aww man prime T-Mac was a thing to watch.

skill wise T-Mac was FAR superior to Lebron, but Lebron is sooo fast and athletic for his size, he is one of the elite athletic specimens in human history.

but to answer the question of 'most pure talent', it has to be Lebron, who weighs a Tractor Traylor, yet jumps like Nique, passes like Penny, runs like Barbosa, has coined the breakaway swat, and finishes with finesse and grace despite being taller and heavier than Brian Urlacher.

answer: Lebron James, who resides with Thorpe and Bo and Jim Brown in that upper tier of American athletic elite.

[Simple Jack]

aww man prime T-Mac was a thing to watch.

skill wise T-Mac was FAR superior to Lebron, but Lebron is sooo fast and athletic for his size, he is one of the elite athletic specimens in human history.

but to answer the question of 'most pure talent', it has to be Lebron, who weighs a Tractor Traylor, yet jumps like Nique, passes like Penny, runs like Barbosa, has coined the breakaway swat, and finishes with finesse and grace despite being taller and heavier than Brian Urlacher.

answer: Lebron James, who resides with Thorpe and Bo and Jim Brown in that upper tier of American athletic elite.


A few myth's I've noticed on ISH:

LeBron is a poor playoff performer.
LeBron isn't very skilled.


Both are absolutely false.

[lilojmayo]

2001-2003 Tracy McGrady was the most talented and skilled basketball player I have ever seen other than Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

[ABfor3]

This is very hard.. but I would go with Tracy McGrady.

If were talking about pure skill then heres why I would go with McGrady.

Peak McGrady had one of the best shooting jumpers in the league while LeBrons jumper is rather atrocious at times. Unlimited range with handles of a point guard.

McGrady is better off the ball which gives him great shots to shoot.
He can also post up which was pretty much an automatic 2 points back then.

T-Mac footwork was better, and if you don't believe it then go and see some old clips of him nd compare to LeBrons footwork.

Passing was about equal to me, they both can drive to the basket nd dish it out like nothing nd find an open man.

I'm sorry but like a previous poster said T-Mac was one of the most complete players EVER.

[eliteballer]

In 1-on-1 situations, yes, but he was very ordinary when it came to pick n roll play or any situation where he had to get around multiple defenders with a live dribble. You'll never see T-Mac zigzagging around multiple defenders from the top of the key.

...because LeBron does right:oldlol:

[ronnymac]

Out of pure basketball talent it's McGrady, but Mcgrady was never the team player Lebron was which is why Lebron always has been and always will be greater than Mcgrady.
What a load of crap. McGrady if he had a fault was he differd to much and looked to pass the ball. Jeff Van Gundy had to call him out to be more selfish and look to score. Talk about pulling crap out of you're behind.

[ronnymac]

When did I say that? I meant ANY play where T-Mac created from the top of the key. You pretty much never saw him changing direction more than once and going around multiple defenders.

Speaking of pick n rolls, you almost never saw T-Mac splitting those either.
Why should he when he had Yao to pick&roll with. Why should he try to split the defender where he would just hand it off to yao off the pick for an easy 2. The McGrady and Yao pick and roll was one of the hardest plays to stop in the entier league.

[CambyLandCan]

What a load of crap. McGrady if he had a fault was he differd to much and looked to pass the ball. Jeff Van Gundy had to call him out to be more selfish and look to score. Talk about pulling crap out of you're behind.
I'm sure his head coach has no bias. :oldlol: and Passing doesn't make you a team player.

[lpublic_enemyl]

lol i left for a couple of months and come back to this same old ISH, well i think if your looking at player's talent lebron has to take it skill wise wud prolly be tmac the better player however is bron bron and i dislike him

[AI3Anthony]

Prime Tracy McGrady is almost as good as it gets.. talent wise.

[ABfor3]

Prime Tracy McGrady is almost as good as it gets.. talent wise.


Great post. :rockon:

[hateraid]

Just to chime in on my own thread, I don't consider size and athleticism a talent. Of course what you do with it is a talent. But I wouldn't consider Lebron a better talent because he's stronger, or jumps higher.

[Connoisseur]

LBJ could only dream of doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceLlz7dOOvY

[jjayfive]

Tmac.. it looked so natural and easy.... score from anywhere..

[che guevara]

LBJ could only dream of doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceLlz7dOOvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyd4NPvzKQg

[ronnymac]

I'm sure his head coach has no bias. :oldlol: and Passing doesn't make you a team player.
Oh really. Now passing dosent make you a good teammate. You're arguments are hilarious and are nort even worth discussing anymore. You sound alot like RG.

[ronnymac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyd4NPvzKQg
McGrady's was against the Spurs and Bruce bowen in his prime.Also it was in 33 seconds and half if not all of themn were contentested by almost 3 guys. The 4 point play he does on duncan, bowen and someone i cant remember
was awesom.

[Simple Jack]

McGrady's was against the Spurs and Bruce bowen in his prime.Also it was in 33 seconds and half if not all of themn were contentested by almost 3 guys. The 4 point play he does on duncan, bowen and someone i cant remember
was awesom.

There isn't many players in the history of the NBA that have proven to be able to score 13 in 35 in the fashion T-Mac did it. That's not a knock on anyone though; that is one of the most clutch performances ever. (not in the playoffs).

[AirJordan&Magic]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but anyone who says anything like "LeBron by a huge margin" is a delusional fanboy.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

T-Mac was definitely more talented. But he's an even bigger loser and choker then LeCon is.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Who zigs and zags as you put it ... on a pick and roll? The point of the two man play is basic, and there would be no need for the ball handler to zig or zag. Are you literally making up basketball situations to elevate LeBron in comparison to T-Mac? Because even so LeBron doesn't do that either, you're not supposed to ...

If you're acting like McGrady couldn't split defenders with his dribble, you're delusional. McGrady all around has a better handle than LeBron.

What? Elite ball handlers do zig and zag around defenders. He has a good point. I don't know why you are denying that.

[whatever666]

Please i beg you, do not compare T-Mac to Lebron..... Lebron is so much better its not even funny, it makes you only look stupid.

Dont know if this is your kindof attempt of disrespecting Lebron or simply not having decent basketball knowledge.

This is no different than comparing Clyde Drexler vs Michael Jordan.

Yes Clyde was very god... but COME ON??!?!

[Bigsmoke]

2001-2003 Tracy McGrady was the most talented and skilled basketball player I have ever seen other than Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.

you do not watch a lot of basketball.

if Tmac was just "pure talent" then why isnt he good anymore? his swagger isnt good enough to adapt with his age. its funny that he's only 31 year old.

[ronnymac]

He just had a micro fracture surgery. Last season was allways going to be tough for him.It took a 24 year old amare almost 20 months to fully recover from the MF surgery. McGrady was playing on the knee after only 8 months.This season his knee will be alot stronger and pain free. He will be ALOT, ALOT, ALOT BETTER this SEASON.

[ronnymac]

Please i beg you, do not compare T-Mac to Lebron..... Lebron is so much better its not even funny, it makes you only look stupid.

Dont know if this is your kindof attempt of disrespecting Lebron or simply not having decent basketball knowledge.

This is no different than comparing Clyde Drexler vs Michael Jordan.

Yes Clyde was very god... but COME ON??!?!
I suggest you go get a tape of McGrady from 2000 to 2006-2007 season and compare them. Stop being a dumbass. It's not as far fetched as some of you fguys are making it out to be.

[Deadpool]

I'd say LeBron is the better ball handler. However, with everything considered I'd probably say that T-Mac had more pure talent. The only thing separating them is LeBrons insane athleticism, strength, and ball handling.
That's talent :oldlol:

[whatever666]

T-Mac was definitely more talented. But he's an even bigger loser and choker then LeCon is.

:facepalm :facepalm

Oh, just noticed you are a Laker fan (Kobe Fan) so i understand your stupidity, nevermind.

[whatever666]

I suggest you go get a tape of McGrady from 2000 to 2006-2007 season and compare them. Stop being a dumbass. It's not as far fetched as some of you fguys are making it out to be.

There is nothing to be compare!!! T-Mac was great! But Lebron is and already at that time was everything T-Mac was times 10!

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing T-Mac could do better than Lebron, NOTHING! (besides shotjacking)

This is not even debatable! Just a stupid thread

[King Kong]

Tmac

[ronnymac]

There is nothing to be compare!!! T-Mac was great! But Lebron is and already at that time was everything T-Mac was times 10!

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing T-Mac could do better than Lebron, NOTHING! (besides shotjacking)

This is not even debatable! Just a stupid thread
Evertime you post, you look dumber and dumber.

[Ikill]

:lol
Evertime you post, you look dumber and dumber.

[Yung D-Will]

There is nothing to be compare!!! T-Mac was great! But Lebron is and already at that time was everything T-Mac was times 10!

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing T-Mac could do better than Lebron, NOTHING! (besides shotjacking)

This is not even debatable! Just a stupid thread


Did you start watching basketball last year?

[Johnni Gade]

Lebrons physique will own Tmac