Peak Alonzo Mourning or Peak Dwight Howard

[ShaqAttack3234]

I mean Howard's peak thus far vs Mourning's peak, not a prediction of how good Howard could be.

2000 Alonzo Mourning
Regular Season- 21.7 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 1.6 apg, 3.7 bpg, 0.5 spg, 2.7 TO, 55.1 FG%, 71.1 FT%, 3.9 PF, 34.8 mpg, 79 games
Playoffs- 21.6 ppg, 10 rpg, 1.4 spg, 3.3 bpg, 0.2 spg, 2.4 TO, 48.4 FG%, 66.7 FT%, 4 PF, 37.6 mpg, 10 games

Notable games
43 points, 16 rebounds, 5 blocks, 13/14 FG, 17/24 FT in a win vs New Jersey
37 points, 11 rebounds, 8 blocks, 15/23 FG, 7/10 FT in a win vs Sacramento

Playoffs
20 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists and 9 blocks on 9/16 shooting to open up the first round with a win over Detroit
29 points, 13 rebounds and 5 blocks on 12/20 shooting in a game 7 loss during the Eastern Division Semi-Finals vs the Knicks.

1st in blocks, 3rd in FG%, 11th in rebounding and 15th in scoring

Defensive Player Of The Year, All-NBA Second Team, 3rd in MVP voting

52-30 record, 2nd in the Eastern Conference, lost in the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals.

The Team's defensive rating was 101(7th in the league), they allowed 91.3 ppg(4th in the league) and opponents shot 42.2%(2nd in the league)

2009 Dwight Howard
Regular Season- 20.6 ppg, 13.8 rpg, 1.4 apg, 2.9 bpg, 1 spg, 3 TO, 57.2 FG%, 59.4 FT%, 3.4 PF, 35.7 mpg, 79 games
Playoffs- 20.3 ppg, 15.3 rpg, 1.9 apg, 2.6 bpg, 0.9 spg, 2.9 TO, 60.1 FG%, 63.6 FT%, 4.4 PF, 39.3 mpg, 23 games

Notable games
45 points, 19 rebounds, 8 blocks, 16/23 FG, 13/18 FT in a win vs Charlotte
32 points, 21 rebounds, 3 assists, 11/15 FG, 10/18 FT in a win vs Indiana
30 points, 19 rebounds, 3 assists, 10 blocks, 12/21 FG, 6/13 FT in a win vs OKC

Playoffs
Opened up the playoffs with 31 points and 16 rebounds on 11/13 shooting and 9/12 from the line in a game 1 loss to Philadelphia
36 points, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks on 12/16 shooting and 12/14 from the line in a game 3 loss to Philadelphia
24 points and 24 rebounds on 8/14 shooting and 8/12 from the line in a game 5 victory vs Philadelphia
23 points, 22 rebounds and 3 blocks on 9/16 shooting and 5/12 from the line in a game 6 victory over Boston in the Eastern Division Semi-Finals
30 points and 14 rebounds on 14/20 shooting in a game 1 win over Cleveland in the Eastern Conference Finals
27 points, 14 rebounds, 4 assist and 3 blocks on 10/16 shooting and 7/9 from the line in a game 4 victory over Cleveland. Howard scored 10 points in overtime
40 points, 14 rebounds and 4 assists on 14/21 shooting and 12/16 from the line in the clinching game 6 vs Cleveland.
16 points, 21 rebounds and a finals record 9 blocks on 5/12 shooting and 6/14 from the line in a game 4 loss vs the Lakers

1st in rebounding, 1st in blocks, 4th in FG% and 18th in scoring

Defensive Player Of The Year, All-NBA First Team, 4th in MVP voting

59-23 record, 3rd in the Eastern Conference, Lost in the Finals

The team had a defensive rating of 101.9(best in the league), they allowed 94.4 ppg(6th in the league) and opponents shot 43.3% against them(3rd in the league)

My analysis

Offense- both players produced at similar levels, however Mourning was more skilled with better moves including a fadeaway in the post, a face up jumper and a jump hook that was more consistent than Howard's. He was also one of the quicker centers when he faced up and I'd say a better passer(though Mourning wasn't a standout passer). On the other side, Howard was a much better rebounder which created scoring opportunities, and his superior athleticism made him available for more alley oops. Like Mourning, Howard could also face up and drive to the basket or hit a running hook with either hand and occasionally a nice spin move. However, Mourning's footwork was better. But Howard did get teams into foul trouble more frequently.

Defense- Both were the best shot blockers in their respective seasons, but Mourning was even better. Both were intimidating presences who changed games even without blocking a shot because they contested everything combined with long wingspans. However, that also made both of them foul prone. Mourning was a superior post defender as well, IMO, but Howard's rebounding can't be ignored. It also has to be mentioned that Mourning played with better defenders including a legit power forward who was a good defensive player and rebounder. But rebounding is part of defense and Howard easily wins there.

Conclusion- Howard may have had a more successful season, but I think Mourning was a little better due to his more polished game, that's really the difference here because it's close.

[lukekarts]

Mourning was slightly better... more effective in his prime... however Dwight is only 24 and I don't think we've seen his best season yet.

[Bladers]

Conclusion- Howard may have had a more successful season, but I think Mourning was a little better due to his more polished game, that's really the difference here because it's close.

How foolish... :facepalm

Anyways, what is their season FG attempt?

[Rose]

Good post and question. I thought Mourning hands down, but then read this. and was like hmm...interesting. I'm going to Mourning, by just a little bit.

[Bladers]

Good post and question. I thought Mourning hands down, but then read this. and was like hmm...interesting. I'm going to Mourning, by just a little bit.

Are you also deceived?

[ronnymac]

Alonzo would break you're nose if you went up against him while Dwight will probaly just smile at you. Zo was a tough SOB who took no nonsense from anyone.Plus Zo atleast had a pretty realiable jumper on him along with some good low post scoring ability with a few moves and had a nice hook shot.

[2LeTTeRS]

Their impact on the court was pretty much equal, but Zo was a much more skilled offensive player while being slightly worse on the boards and equal on D. If I'm buiding a team I take Zo.

[MasterDurant24]

Mourning was a better defensive and offensive player, while Howard was the better rebounder.

[Sarcastic]

Dwight Howard has not hit his peak, so you can't say yet. If you just go by what he has done so far, then Mourning is slightly better, but that is unfair since you can look at Alonzo's entire career, and we only have the first few years for Dwight.

Dwight Howard is only 24 years old. He has not even gotten his man body yet. When he hits 27-28, then you can start making the comparison.

[Bladers]

All you fools need to take your sunglasses off and look closely at their stats!!!

:wtf:

[ShaqAttack3234]

Alonzo would break you're nose if you went up against him while Dwight will probaly just smile at you. Zo was a tough SOB who took no nonsense from anyone.Plus Zo atleast had a pretty realiable jumper on him along with some good low post scoring ability with a few moves and had a nice hook shot.

I agree that Zo is more intense which is the other thing that gives him the edge, but Dwight hands out plenty of hard fouls and has been called a dirty player by some.



Dwight Howard is only 24 years old. He has not even gotten his man body yet. When he hits 27-28, then you can start making the comparison.

Hopefully, he can still get better. Working with Olajuwon couldn't have hurt, but he did take a step backwards last season after improving in each of his first 5 years.

[Bladers]

Alonzo would break you're nose if you went up against him while Dwight will probaly just smile at you. Zo was a tough SOB who took no nonsense from anyone.Plus Zo atleast had a pretty realiable jumper on him along with some good low post scoring ability with a few moves and had a nice hook shot.

Dwight is a christian, so no. He is not a cocky arrogant SOB..
and yes he will smile and still dunk on your ass.

[MasterDurant24]

All you fools need to take your sunglasses off and look closely at their stats!!!

:wtf:
We don't need stats to know who's better.

[BFRESH44]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLPpvSkbRjc

Big Zo all day. :pimp:

[Alonzo Magic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLPpvSkbRjc

Big Zo all day. :pimp:

:pimp:

[zORi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLPpvSkbRjc

Big Zo all day. :pimp:

Dwight had a 45 point game, and he's only 24. He'll hit 50 sooner or later.

[ronnymac]

Dwight is a christian, so no. He is not a cocky arrogant SOB..
and yes he will smile and still dunk on your ass.
It's called intensity. He instilled fear into his opponents. I still remember the shiner he gave pippen in the 97-98 playoffs where he just flattend him which pretty much lifted the whole heat team who won that game 3 but still lost the series.

[CambyLandCan]

Conclusion- Howard may have had a more successful season, but I think Mourning was a little better due to his more polished game, that's really the difference here because it's close.
I'm pretty sure everybody already thinks that. So basically you posted a bunch of stats and accomplishments only to state the complete obvious.

[Jasper]

When mourning came out of college he was truely a rookie in a mans world.
MJ got into his head so much , that Zo had to work on his game as well as his mental makeup.

Howard came out of school , and showed immediately that he can be an impact player.
Right now Howard has not reached his peak , because his team does not judicisly feed him the ball as the Lakers did with Shaq.
---------------
Howards peak may never come unless he starts getting more touchs and his mental makeup changes as well.
==================
I take mourning for a couple of reasons , he worked on his game to be a POWER player in a 6'10" build. His rebound prowls were under rated because many times I saw tip outs , box outs allowing other players to get the board.
And finally two other legit reasons , HIS DEFENSE.
Never in serious foul trouble in his peak , played most big men straight up , and he owns a ring.
Tell me he was not important in that championship run , and you hav no idea what basketball is all about. The better play from Zo backing up Shaq , and team continuity.

IT's up to Howard to peak , demand the ball , and garner a ring as a champion.

[BFRESH44]

I also truly believe that that the 1999/Lockout year MVP award belongs to Zo....Yes homer. Fvck Karl Malone's puss ass. :pimp:

[SCdac]

I'd take the guy who was naturally a better offensive player, meaning he was more comfortable/expected to take closer to 15 or more shots a game, versus maybe 10-12 shots a game which I feel Howard is more prone to with Orlando still being a competitor. Shot blocking I feel is close to a wash, but I can't see Mourning in his peak being reduced to having a 1-6 FG game in the Finals against Pau and Bynum, even though I don't consider him an elite offensive player (he had his fair share of low scoring games too). Mourning had a usage-% of nearly 30% in that playoff run, and generally had a higher % (than Howard's playoff runs) in every post season prior to that. Mourning was also sharing boards with a solid big man in PJ Brown who averaged roughly 10 boards in the RS, and 8 boards in the post season. On Howard's team, there's really nobody even close to approaching those averages on rebounds, his starting PF averages about 5-7 three point attempts per game, and hangs around on the perimeter. I hate talking raw numbers though, it turns into more of a fantasy-debate (arguing over over miniscule differences in stats). Mourning I feel was just the better, smarter, more aggressive and tougher player, even if his team-results weren't wowing. Still though, he won a championship averaging over a block a game in about 10 minutes per at a pretty old age (which is irrelevant in this thread, but still an achievement).

[Thorpesaurous]

I'm going with Zo by a bit too.

The difference being that Zo could warp defenses more. They look pretty comparible by the numbers as far as offensive production goes, but Zo was more inclined to force you a double team. And more inclined to get you a hoop on his own. Howard is a much better rebounder, in fact Howard is a much better rebounder than all but about a half dozen players in the history of the league. But I actaully hold that against him a bit offensively. He's getting full offensive rebound more than Zo did over their careers. If he could demand the ball and wasn't free to attack the glass offensively that wouldn't be the case. And don't undervalue the fact that Zo was a competent FT shooter and Howard is awfull.

Defensively it's close, but I'd give the nod to Howard a bit. Zo was a monster patrolling the lane. Even moreso than Howard when it came to defending the rim. However it's close, and like I said, Howard is an all time rebounder, and the fact that Howard can be that good a rebounder and still go after blocks that aggressively is astounding.

He's got to get to the point where you can give him the ball when you need a bucket and he can get one regardless of what's thrown at him. In the end I'd take Zo's slightly larger advantage offensively over Howards slight edge defensively.

[LAClipsFan33]

I don't even have to think for 5 seconds before I pick Zo. Zo had twice the heart that Dwight "Smiley" Howard has. Dwight doesn't want the pressure in the big game while Zo is the one putting the pressure on the other team in the big game.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Dwight doesn't want the pressure in the big game while Zo is the one putting the pressure on the other team in the big game.

Now this is just false, go look at OT of game 4 in the '09 ECF when he scored 10 points or game 6 when he set the tone by outrunning everyone, working harder for rebounds, demanding the ball and delivering with 40 points to send his team to the finals.

I pick Zo too, but big game performances are not an argument for him over Dwight.

[LAClipsFan33]

Now this is just false, go look at OT of game 4 in the '09 ECF when he scored 10 points or game 6 when he set the tone by outrunning everyone, working harder for rebounds, demanding the ball and delivering with 40 points to send his team to the finals.

I pick Zo too, but big game performances are not an argument for him over Dwight.

And what did he do against the Lakers ? Fold like a lawn chair and get dominated by Pau Gasol for half the series. He looked like he wanted to cry mid game. Sure he looked like a beast against Varejo and Zydrunas "My knees don't bend" Illgauskus, not so much against Pau Gasol. LOL Howard was supposed to be the beast and Pau the softie. Pau made Dwight his b*tch.

[andgar923]

Zo is better, end of story.

Only reason Howard's numbers are the way they are, is because he goes up against nobodies and today's big men are all to busy trying to be small forwards instead of playing the post.

Most of Howard's game consists of he using his size and athleticism. And there isn't that many big men today anyway.

Like somebody mentioned, Zo was a leader and he'd rip your throat out if he had too. Meanwhile Howard would just smile.

[ShaqAttack3234]

And what did he do against the Lakers ? Fold like a lawn chair and get dominated by Pau Gasol for half the series. He looked like he wanted to cry mid game. Sure he looked like a beast against Varejo and Zydrunas "My knees don't bend" Illgauskus, not so much against Pau Gasol. LOL Howard was supposed to be the beast and Pau the softie. Pau made Dwight his b*tch.

Zo's number 1 seed Heat lost to the 8th seed Knicks and a 36 year old Ewing on one leg outplayed him in the deciding 5th game in Miami and Zo managed just 8 rpg for the series while a hobbled, old Ewing thoroughly outplayed him.

See how easy that is? Lets not act like Zo was just rolling through the playoffs and didn't have his disappointing games and series.

[LAClipsFan33]

Zo is better, end of story.

Only reason Howard's numbers are the way they are, is because he goes up against nobodies and today's big men are all to busy trying to be small forwards instead of playing the post.

Most of Howard's game consists of he using his size and athleticism. And there isn't that many big men today anyway.

Like somebody mentioned, Zo was a leader and he'd rip your throat out if he had too. Meanwhile Howard would just smile.

Howard's mental toughness is questionable. I think if he went head to head with Mourning he'd get intimidated. When Zo knew he was in your head he'd rip your heart out and eat it in front of you. I don't think Dwight would ever want this matchup.

[LAClipsFan33]

Zo's number 1 seed Heat lost to the 8th seed Knicks and a 36 year old Ewing on one leg outplayed him in the deciding 5th game in Miami and Zo managed just 8 rpg for the series while a hobbled, old Ewing thoroughly outplayed him.

See how easy that is? Lets not act like Zo was just rolling through the playoffs and didn't have his disappointing games and series.

Pat Ewing's heart >> Pau Gasol's heart

Losing to Ewing and getting punked by Gasol are totally different situations

Do you think Zo would ever get punked by Gasol ?

[necya]

seriously i don't understand this thread, we have already talk about that shaqattack, but Mourning do everything better than howard.
i'm sorry but they don't play in the same court.
first, you take a "peak" of Zo in 2000. okay he was awarded this year but mainly because there were only 2 great centers in 2000. young alonzo was imo more impressive and he had to battle against young mutombo, shaq, prime robinson and olajuwon.
it's like howard, he is DPOY but there is no center anymore, it's a bit normal he has more rebounds than the others!? if he played in 95 he would be the 5th best defensive center of the league, so far away from a DPOY title.

i really don't agree with this "little edge" for zo and no more with the comparison.

[Manute for Ever!]

All you fools need to take your sunglasses off and look closely at their stats!!!

:wtf:

...And you need to stop looking at stats and watch 'Zo play, especially in a league that contained more centres than just himself.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Pat Ewing's heart >> Pau Gasol's heart

Losing to Ewing and getting punked by Gasol are totally different situations

Do you think Zo would ever get punked by Gasol ?

Gasol in 2009 was a much, much better player than an injured 36 year old Ewing. There's nothing to suggest Zo was a better big game performer.

[zORi]

Pat Ewing's heart >> Pau Gasol's heart

Losing to Ewing and getting punked by Gasol are totally different situations

Do you think Zo would ever get punked by Gasol ?

He was 36!

C'mon man now you're just reaching. If you pick Zo, just pick him, don't look for reasons to discredit Dwight.

BTW, Pau didn't rape him in that series:

Game 1:
DH: 12 (16%)/15/2blks
PG: 16 (58%)/8/2blks

G2:
DH:17 (50%)/16/4 blks
PG:24 (50%)/ 10/1blk

G3:
DH: 21 (83%)/14/2blks
PG: 23 (81%)/3/2blks

G4:
DH: 16 (41%)/21/9blks
PG: 16 (50%)/10/0blks

G5:
DH: 11 (55%)/10/3blks
PG: 14 (66%)/15/4blks

Pau arguably had the better series, but Pau is older and has experience at the stage before. And he most definitely didn't "punk" Howard.

[Dwade305]

LOL all of Howards accolades really dont mean shit compared to what Zo did.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYmpPqJLX_Y


Thats an old man, with a dangling kidney abusing Howard. :lol

[LAClipsFan33]

LOL all of Howards accolades really dont mean shit compared to what Zo did.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYmpPqJLX_Y


Thats an old man, with a dangling kidney abusing Howard. :lol

/Thread

[zORi]

LOL all of Howards accolades really dont mean shit compared to what Zo did.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYmpPqJLX_Y


Thats an old man, with a dangling kidney abusing Howard. :lol

LOL, that was 4 years ago!

Dwight was 20 and JUST entering his 3rd year in the league! This is before he became an all-star or anything yet. I bet I could videos of Mourning getting raped when he was younger, too. Doesn't mean much.

Also, LAClipsFan, I saw your post in the other thread. You hate Dwight and didn't have any sort of rebuttal to my last post. Your agenda is open.

[LAClipsFan33]

He was 36!

C'mon man now you're just reaching. If you pick Zo, just pick him, don't look for reasons to discredit Dwight.

BTW, Pau didn't rape him in that series:

Game 1:
DH: 12 (16%)/15/2blks
PG: 16 (58%)/8/2blks

G2:
DH:17 (50%)/16/4 blks
PG:24 (50%)/ 10/1blk

G3:
DH: 21 (83%)/14/2blks
PG: 23 (81%)/3/2blks

G4:
DH: 16 (41%)/21/9blks
PG: 16 (50%)/10/0blks

G5:
DH: 11 (55%)/10/3blks
PG: 14 (66%)/15/4blks

Pau arguably had the better series, but Pau is older and has experience at the stage before. And he most definitely didn't "punk" Howard.

Really ? Started out the series with 12 points on 17% shooting. Then he goes on to not outscore Pau even once and he's supposed to be the dominant MVP candidate. He scored 40 in the closeout game against the Cavs and they where hyping him to no end and scores 11 in the closeout game against Gasol. LOL baby nuts Howard :oldlol:

[LAClipsFan33]

Also, LAClipsFan, I saw your post in the other thread. You hate Dwight and didn't have any sort of rebuttal to my last post. Your agenda is open.

Yes. I hate Dwight Howard because he's the strongest most athletic big man in the league, but has no heart and refuses to work on his game whatsoever. How can you even like a guy like that ? Waste of talent. His talent should have went to a guy like Dejuan Blair, Luis Scola, or Carl Landry...these guys do a lot with less and Howard is halfass on reaching his potential.

[2LeTTeRS]

Really ? Started out the series with 12 points on 17% shooting. Then he goes on to not outscore Pau even once and he's supposed to be the dominant MVP candidate. He scored 40 in the closeout game against the Cavs and they where hyping him to no end and scores 11 in the closeout game against Gasol. LOL baby nuts Howard :oldlol:

So the only thing there is to the game is scoring? Dwight struggled to score, but he dominated the glass and kept the Magic in the series with his defense.
You can't say Howard didn't come to play in that series.

[zORi]

Really ? Started out the series with 12 points on 17% shooting. Then he goes on to not outscore Pau even once and he's supposed to be the dominant MVP candidate. He scored 40 in the closeout game against the Cavs and they where hyping him to no end and scores 11 in the closeout game against Gasol. LOL baby nuts Howard :oldlol:

First off, he was near Gasol in every single game, second, he out did him in every single other category, third, wasn't Bynum the one guarding him? Why not compare Bynum to Howard?

Gasol lit up Rashard Lewis. Whoooopdee doo! That's incredible! No other 7-ft Power Forward has done that before! Oh wait....

Pau did better in points, and that's it. Man, stop it, you're about as see through as your silly-ass arguments.

[zORi]

Yes. I hate Dwight Howard because he's the strongest most athletic big man in the league, but has no heart and refuses to work on his game whatsoever. How can you even like a guy like that ? Waste of talent. His talent should have went to a guy like Dejuan Blair, Luis Scola, or Carl Landry...these guys do a lot with less and Howard is halfass on reaching his potential.

You're an idiot.

Dude is an all-star, 2x DPOY, leads in FG%, blocked shots, rebounds, and double-doubles, yet he never works on his game? Are you serious?

Stop listening to TV and only looking at points.

[LAClipsFan33]

So the only thing there is to the game is scoring? Dwight struggled to score, but he dominated the glass and kept the Magic in the series with his defense.
You can't say Howard didn't come to play in that series.

He had one big defensive game. Overall they put the series on his shoulders be running the offense through him and he failed to do anything. He was supposed to be this domiant force who was unstoppable in the paint and Gasol got a good base, put his arms up, and kept him from doing anything besides bricking off that sh*tty sweeping hook.

[LAClipsFan33]

First off, he was near Gasol in every single game, second, he out did him in every single other category, third, wasn't Bynum the one guarding him? Why not compare Bynum to Howard?

Gasol lit up Rashard Lewis. Whoooopdee doo! That's incredible! No other 7-ft Power Forward has done that before! Oh wait....

Pau did better in points, and that's it. Man, stop it, you're about as see through as your silly-ass arguments.

The Lakers rotation has Bynum playing him for a couple minutes then Gasol sliding over to Center when Bynum goes out to let Odom play PF. For the majority of the game Gasol is at C and Odom is at PF.

[LAClipsFan33]

You're an idiot.

Dude is an all-star, 2x DPOY, leads in FG%, blocked shots, rebounds, and double-doubles, yet he never works on his game? Are you serious?

Stop listening to TV and only looking at points.

I watch him play. He's been the exact same player for 3 years straight.

He hasn't took the time to become any type of passer out of the post, work on his proneness to TOs, or any type of 2nd move in the post on offense. Matter of fact he went on record saying that his post game is good...even though we all know its awful. He's the best Center in the league by default because he's by far the best athlete. With work and determination he could be twice the player he is now, but with his attitude I doubt he ever will.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Come on, you know damn well as a Clippers fan you'd throw a party if the Clippers got a player near Dwight's caliber.

[zORi]

He had one big defensive game. Overall they put the series on his shoulders be running the offense through him and he failed to do anything. He was supposed to be this domiant force who was unstoppable in the paint and Gasol got a good base, put his arms up, and kept him from doing anything besides bricking off that sh*tty sweeping hook.

Actually, you should be looking at Gasol.

Those weren't incredibly dominant numbers considering he spent a lot of time being guarded by Lewis. And what's with the low rebounds?

Stop being an idiot.

[tontoz]

One thing that should be kept in mind is that Howards rebounding improved greatly once Rashard was signed. Rashard is a very weak rebounder at the 4 which allows Howard to get more rebounds.

Zo was a better shotblocker. Howard got 2.9 blocks in his best year. Zo had 6 seasons getting that or better.

Howards offensive skills are lame. If he can't get to the rim he is pretty worthless. Zo wins by default here.

I would take Zo.

[zORi]

Come on, you know damn well as a Clippers fan you'd throw a party if the Clippers got a player near Dwight's caliber.

Exactly.

So LACF, you'd rather have Kaman than Howard?

[Dwade305]

One thing that should be kept in mind is that Howards rebounding improved greatly once Rashard was signed. Rashard is a very weak rebounder at the 4 which allows Howard to get more rebounds.

Zo was a better shotblocker. Howard got 2.9 blocks in his best year. Zo had 6 seasons getting that or better.

Howards offensive skills are lame. If he can't get to the rim he is pretty worthless. Zo wins by default here.

I would take Zo.


Is there really anything else left to be said? End this thread already, Dwight wouldnt even be a top 5 center in the 90's, this has been discussed before.

[zORi]

One thing that should be kept in mind is that Howards rebounding improved greatly once Rashard was signed. Rashard is a very weak rebounder at the 4 which allows Howard to get more rebounds.

Zo was a better shotblocker. Howard got 2.9 blocks in his best year. Zo had 6 seasons getting that or better.

Howards offensive skills are lame. If he can't get to the rim he is pretty worthless. Zo wins by default here.

I would take Zo.

There are a ton of centers who didn't score well unless they were near the rim. His offense isn't flashy or inredible, but it isn't lame. He did have 2 20 ppg seasons on very efficient percentages.

Zo was a better shot blocker than Dwight is at the moment, but Dwight is only 24. At least 3 or 4 years from his prime.

As far as rebounding, that works in two ways. Often times, Dwight is the only Magic player down there jumping for a rebound against 2 or 3 of the opposing teams players. This is Magic's fans biggest complaint, is that Dwight has to go up against 2 or 3 players constantly.

[LAClipsFan33]

Exactly.

So LACF, you'd rather have Kaman than Howard?

I'd rather have Howard because Kaman has the same issues with heart and Howard is a better player.

But we are talking about Zo here...who was way better than Howard.

[joyner82]

It's Dwight but it's close

[zORi]

Is there really anything else left to be said? End this thread already, Dwight wouldnt even be a top 5 center in the 90's, this has been discussed before.
Stop being a homer and if you don't like it don't post here. Simple.

Also, Mourning was barely (if at all) top 5 C in that time.

Olajuwon
Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Dikembe
Mourning

[LAClipsFan33]

Stop being a homer and if you don't like it don't post here. Simple.

Also, Mourning was barely (if at all) top 5 C in that time.

Olajuwon
Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Dikembe
Mourning

And all those guys are better than Dwight

[joyner82]

Stop being a homer and if you don't like it don't post here. Simple.

Also, Mourning was barely (if at all) top 5 C in that time.

Olajuwon
Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Dikembe
Mourning


Dikembe wasn't better than Mourning and Ewing wasn't much better.

[Dwade305]

Stop being a homer and if you don't like it don't post here. Simple.

Also, Mourning was barely (if at all) top 5 C in that time.

Olajuwon
Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Dikembe
Mourning
:oldlol:

U know what though it is a toss up between 3-6, cant even front. But speaks volume of how sorry the league is in the C position, no matter how many accolades Dwight gets, he will never be better than a prime Zo in my book,

[MasterDurant24]

Stop being a homer and if you don't like it don't post here. Simple.

Also, Mourning was barely (if at all) top 5 C in that time.

Olajuwon
Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Dikembe
Mourning
Deke was not better than Zo.

[zORi]

And all those guys are better than Dwight
All of them have had a full career resume to look upon.

Dwight's only 24, as I've said before, he's got a good 10 years more to go.

[zORi]

:oldlol:

U know what though it is a toss up between 3-6, cant even front. But speaks volume of how sorry the league is in the C position, no matter how many accolades Dwight gets, he will never be better than a prime Zo in my book,

that post= super-homerism. You don't have to post anymore, we know what you're going to say.

BTW, For those who have been posting, I accidentally put Mourning under Deke.

[tontoz]

There are a ton of centers who didn't score well unless they were near the rim. His offense isn't flashy or inredible, but it isn't lame. He did have 2 20 ppg seasons on very efficient percentages.




Howard can't score outside 5 feet. that is why his playoff performances have been so lame. Against this eras weak crop of centers it is pretty easy for him to get to the rim, either on drives or follow ups.



As far as rebounding, that works in two ways. Often times, Dwight is the only Magic player down there jumping for a rebound against 2 or 3 of the opposing teams players. This is Magic's fans biggest complaint, is that Dwight has to go up against 2 or 3 players constantly

It is a lot easier to get rebounds next to Rashard than it would be next to Boozer. Each rebound Boozer gets is one less rebound Howard could have gotten.

Why do you think Howards rebounding shot up as soon as Lewis signed?

[ShaqAttack3234]

And all those guys are better than Dwight

:oldlol: at Mutombo being a better player than Dwight.

[zORi]

Howard can't score outside 5 feet. that is why his playoff performances have been so lame. Against this eras weak crop of centers it is pretty easy for him to get to the rim, either on drives or follow ups.



It is a lot easier to get rebounds next to Rashard than it would be next to Boozer. Each rebound Boozer gets is one less rebound Howard could have gotten.

Why do you think Howards rebounding shot up as soon as Lewis signed?

Because he signed in '07. That was when Dwight started to become what he is today.

Also, they didn't shoot up. They went from 12.3, to 14.2. That's 1.9 more.

[Dwade305]

:oldlol: at Mutombo being a better player than Dwight.

U forgot how the first guy initially put Deke over Zo and how laughable that is. Ow and then saying it was a mistake after everyone started correcting his dumbass
:roll:

[zORi]

U forgot how the first guy initially put Deke over Zo and how laughable that is. Ow and then saying it was a mistake after everyone started correcting his dumbass
:roll:

It was a mistake whether you want to believe that or not.

Also, this coming from a guy who was proud of Zo beating out a 20-year old Dwight Howard? LOLOL, EDIT: Pathetic.

[Dwade305]

It was a mistake whether you want to believe that or not.

Also, this coming from a guy who was proud of Zo beating out a 20-year old Dwight Howard? LOLOL, sad.


Really? What has really changed drastically( besides Muscle mass) in Dwights game since he was 20? What would lead you to believe it would have been a different story if Dwight was 25 and had the same post moves?

[tontoz]

Because he signed in '07. That was when Dwight started to become what he is today.

Also, they didn't shoot up. They went from 12.3, to 14.2. That's 1.9 more.


A 15% increase in one year is a big jump.

Funny how you talk about 07 as when Dwight stepped up. Did it ever occur to you that a less crowded lane might benefit his numbers? With Lewis camped at the 3 pt line his defender will have to respect his shot. that is one less guy who can quickly double Howard.

[SCdac]

Really? What has really changed drastically( besides Muscle mass) in Dwights game since he was 20? What would lead you to believe it would have been a different story if Dwight was 25 and had the same post moves?

Not to mention, Dwight was a #1 pick for a reason, not exactly some late first rounder who's blossomed into a star, and Mourning was what a few years away from being 40 years old. It's not an end-all be-all game, but still impressive on Mournings part.

[necya]

olajuwon, robinson, o'neal and mourning are a lot better than howard.
then, olajuwon, robinson, mourning and mutombo are better defensive players than howard. not even to mention others great defenders of the 90's who were not centers...
that shows the value of his 2 DPOY...the league sucks.

[FindingTim]

Dwight is more physically blessed

but Alonzo was better, no matter what the stats say.

Mourning was a terror on the defensive end, a true warrior. I can't say the same thing about Dwight Howard. I think Howard would have got rocked in a different era, when the center position was far better throughout the league (Shaq, Hakeem, D-Rob, Smits, Ewing, Mutumbo, Divac etc. ..and can't forget Big Country Reeves!:rockon:

[zORi]

A 15% increase in one year is a big jump.

Funny how you talk about 07 as when Dwight stepped up. Did it ever occur to you that a less crowded lane might benefit his numbers? With Lewis camped at the 3 pt line his defender will have to respect his shot. that is one less guy who can quickly double Howard.

Of course that helped, but he was bound to be better than the year before, that much is obvious. Just for the sheer experience, if nothing else.

How about from his rookie to sophomore year when he went from 10-12.5? 1.9 more rebounds isn't all that drastic as you made it out to be.

[zORi]

Really? What has really changed drastically( besides Muscle mass) in Dwights game since he was 20? What would lead you to believe it would have been a different story if Dwight was 25 and had the same post moves?

Please tell me you're joking.

Second, Dwight isn't even 25 now, so we wouldn't know.

[DetroitPiston]

I'd take a peak Zo.

[Dwade305]

Please tell me you're joking.

Second, Dwight isn't even 25 now, so we wouldn't know.


Explain his improvement/s or at least try. I dont care/know how old Dwight is now, im just giving an example, since your bringing age as a determining factor why Dwight was treated like shyt that game.

[Rendezvous32]

I'd take the guy who was naturally a better offensive player, meaning he was more comfortable/expected to take closer to 15 or more shots a game, versus maybe 10-12 shots a game which I feel Howard is more prone to with Orlando still being a competitor. Shot blocking I feel is close to a wash, but I can't see Mourning in his peak being reduced to having a 1-6 FG game in the Finals against Pau and Bynum, even though I don't consider him an elite offensive player (he had his fair share of low scoring games too). Mourning had a usage-% of nearly 30% in that playoff run, and generally had a higher % (than Howard's playoff runs) in every post season prior to that. Mourning was also sharing boards with a solid big man in PJ Brown who averaged roughly 10 boards in the RS, and 8 boards in the post season. On Howard's team, there's really nobody even close to approaching those averages on rebounds, his starting PF averages about 5-7 three point attempts per game, and hangs around on the perimeter. I hate talking raw numbers though, it turns into more of a fantasy-debate (arguing over over miniscule differences in stats). Mourning I feel was just the better, smarter, more aggressive and tougher player, even if his team-results weren't wowing. Still though, he won a championship averaging over a block a game in about 10 minutes per at a pretty old age (which is irrelevant in this thread, but still an achievement).
Game, set, and match.

[zORi]

Explain his improvement/s or at least try. I dont care/know how old Dwight is now, im just giving an example, since your bringing age as a determining factor why Dwight was treated like shyt that game.

First of all, like you said, mass was a determining factor .

He also didn't have his hook shot down consistently, nor was he cutting off passing lanes as effectively. He wasn't as smart of a player as he is now, in general, while Zo was the exact opposite.

EDIT: For the record here, I would actually take a Prime Zo as well. But to say that Dwight is no where near Zo (and never will be) and calling his offense "Pathetic" and all that is ridiculous. That's why I'm standing up for him, but yeah, prime Zo was actually a better player than Dwight has been so far.

[Magic Vinsanity]

Alonzo would break you're nose if you went up against him while Dwight will probaly just smile at you. Zo was a tough SOB who took no nonsense from anyone.Plus Zo atleast had a pretty realiable jumper on him along with some good low post scoring ability with a few moves and had a nice hook shot.

Tell all the people who have been battered by Dwight that he just flashes a smile in the paint.

And reliable jumper or not, they're PPG averages are almost identical and Howard adds several more blocks.

Mourning was more skilled for sure, but Dwight attracts more attention, I'd take Dwight, but he needs to improve without question.

[Maniak]

All you fools need to take your sunglasses off and look closely at their stats!!!

:wtf:
YEAH! Lets judge everyone by stats.

I'll take Spencer Haywood in my top 5.

[Showtime]

All you fools need to take your sunglasses off and look closely at their stats!!!

:wtf:
All fools like you need to stop caring about stats. Oh wait, that's all you got to go on because you are too young to have watched Zo.

[tontoz]

Of course that helped, but he was bound to be better than the year before, that much is obvious. Just for the sheer experience, if nothing else.

How about from his rookie to sophomore year when he went from 10-12.5? 1.9 more rebounds isn't all that drastic as you made it out to be.


As a rookie Howard was still skinny and not playing as many minutes.

In his third year he averaged 12.3 rebounds per game. Why no improvement from his second year?

[nbacardDOTnet]

Zo is better, end of story.

Only reason Howard's numbers are the way they are, is because he goes up against nobodies and today's big men are all to busy trying to be small forwards instead of playing the post.

Most of Howard's game consists of he using his size and athleticism. And there isn't that many big men today anyway.

Like somebody mentioned, Zo was a leader and he'd rip your throat out if he had too. Meanwhile Howard would just smile.


Howard's mental toughness is questionable. I think if he went head to head with Mourning he'd get intimidated. When Zo knew he was in your head he'd rip your heart out and eat it in front of you. I don't think Dwight would ever want this matchup.

Retired ZO is still emotional. :lol (in 2009)
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/VS/d052874a.gif



Stop being a homer and if you don't like it don't post here. Simple.

Also, Mourning was barely (if at all) top 5 C in that time.

Olajuwon
Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Dikembe
Mourning

Dikembe's defense was great but not the same level as rest of all.
(I think you might not watch 90's C Players game.)


Deke was not better than Zo.
+1


Dikembe wasn't better than Mourning and Ewing wasn't much better.
+1

- ZO's opponent were Olajuwon, Ewing, D-Rob, SHAQ
and nice C Players like Mutombo, Rik Smits , Vlade Divac, Kevin Willis(C/F tho) etc. etc.

dh12 's opponent ? season-outed Yao and ?
(The weakest C Players era.)



- ZO 's front court partner were Larry Johnson(Hornets) and P.J. Brown(heat).

But ZO's stat was still great.

DH12 has no front court partner.(Actually Rashard Lewis is not PF.)



And ZO had never been struggled against poor opponent not like dh12.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/--2.jpg

This is not just once.

Because dh12 has been stopped by (only 2009-10 season)

1) Really OLD SHAQ
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Shaquille%20Oneal/5%20Cleveland%20Cavaliers/NBA09-10OrlandoMagicvsClevelandCava.jpg

2) non prime time Jermaine O'neal

3) OLD Ben Wallace

4) (partly) Samuel Dalembert

5) Kendrick Perkins

6) Andrew Bynum

7) Roy Hibbert

8) Charlotte Bobcats C Players

and if there were Yao, Yao could stop dh12.


Furthermore ZO didn't need to elbow not like dh12.

I always think dh12 is one of dominant current player but he is not all time greatest level.



This is ZO in his rookie season. dh12 couldn't play like this at the same age.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/rookiealonzomourninghitsthebuzzerbe.gif




As NBA history, all the greatest C Players have been born to be the greatest C Players not imporoved.

[zORi]

Retired ZO is still emotional. :lol (in 2009)
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/VS/d052874a.gif




Dikembe's defense was great but not the same level as rest of all.
(I think you might not watch 90's C Players game.)


+1


+1

- ZO's opponent were Olajuwon, Ewing, D-Rob, SHAQ
and nice C Players like Mutombo, Rik Smits , Vlade Divac, Kevin Willis(C/F tho) etc. etc.

dh12 's opponent ? season-outed Yao and ?
(The weakest C Players era.)



- ZO 's front court partner were Larry Johnson(Hornets) and P.J. Brown(heat).

But ZO's stat was still great.

DH12 has no front court partner.(Actually Rashard Lewis is not PF.)



And ZO had never been struggled against poor opponent not like dh12.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/--2.jpg

This is not just once.

Because dh12 has been stopped by (only 2009-10 season)

1) Really OLD SHAQ
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Shaquille%20Oneal/5%20Cleveland%20Cavaliers/NBA09-10OrlandoMagicvsClevelandCava.jpg

2) non prime time Jermaine O'neal

3) OLD Ben Wallace

4) (partly) Samuel Dalembert

5) Kendrick Perkins

6) Andrew Bynum

7) Roy Hibbert

8) Charlotte Bobcats C Players

and if there were Yao, Yao could stop dh12.


Furthermore ZO didn't need to elbow not like dh12.

I always think dh12 is one of dominant current player but he is not all time greatest level.



This is ZO in his rookie season. dh12 couldn't play like this at the same age.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/rookiealonzomourninghitsthebuzzerbe.gif




As NBA history, all the greatest C Players have been born to be the greatest C Players not imporoved.

1 bad game against those centers is not "being stopped" by them, he also regularly outperforms them and wins the overall head-to-head matchups against them for the season. Stop nit picking. I'll bring up the stats if you want, but this would only hurt your argument.

LOL @ being stopped by Ben Wallace, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, one buzzer beater does not a great player make. You act like that was some brilliant play, it was a shot at the top of the key. Even the most basic NBA player could have hit that.

Also, you're still running around with that picture? Really? Let it go man, seriously.

Also, Zo had his fair share of hard hits and elbows as well, he's also had a bad series or two. I think you didn't watch 90's era players.

I wont even comment on the "As NBA history, all the greatest C Players have been born to be the greatest C Players not imporoved.", that is easily the most ridiculous thing I have heard today (which includes a threat to a super groupie).

[DatWasNashty]

Alonzo Mourning was a bad muthaphucka. I can't say the same about Howard who has that "hey! nice to meet you" mentality. Zo would feast on today's competition. He was getting 20/10/3 on routine in a league that was ran by bigs and .... and that black SG that played for DA BULLS. That era was much more physical and intense than the league Howard plays in. When Howard can't get deep position down low, he can't score. It's why he struggles against Boston since they play great help defense (hence forcing turnovers) and Perkins denies deep position down low. He hasn't mastered anything either besides the dropstep. Can't hit jumphooks consistently. Dude has bricks for hands and makes bad decisions with the ball.

Zo had a much more aggressive, assertive mentality where he'd demand the ball and force his team to feed him down low. It's why he clashed with LJ and ended up getting traded. I can't think of anything Howard does better than Zo save for pick and roll defense (due to Howard's edge in athleticism) and rebounding and remember that Zo was rebounding next to LJ, Parish, PJ Brown, Gattison, Owens, Kurt Thomas etc. Howard plays with undersized, uncoventional fowards that can't rebound worth a lick. People are impressed with Howard's shot blocking but Zo's anticipation, timing and will to contest shots was much superior than his. Guy went for everything possible which did hurt his team on a few occasions (gambling isn't always the greatest) but it also set fear in the minds of guys who were looking to penetrate. On offense, Zo wasn't perfect and that's why he was a notch below than Dream, Shaq, Admiral and Pat but he was much superior than Howard. Dwight Howard in the 90s wouldn't be much better than Kevin Willis who was never considered an elite player.

[oh the horror]

The problem with today's younger fan, is they eat, sh*t, and breath "stats"...


STATS DO NOT MEAN D*CK.



Having seen all of Zo's career, and considering the big men Zo had to go up against....its EASY to say that Alonzo was a far superior center.



Ive watched Dwight struggle against MOST other centers with any amount of size. Now, Howard is still young, and has a lot of room for improvement, but as it stands now.....the fact that he does struggle so much against other centers with any amount of size is a telling fact to me.

[zORi]

Alonzo Mourning was a bad muthaphucka. I can't say the same about Howard who has that "hey! nice to meet you" mentality. Zo would feast on today's competition. He was getting 20/10/3 on routine in a league that was ran by bigs and .... and that black SG that played for DA BULLS. That era was much more physical and intense than the league Howard plays in. When Howard can't get deep position down low, he can't score. It's why he struggles against Boston since they play great help defense (hence forcing turnovers) and Perkins denies deep position down low. He hasn't mastered anything either besides the dropstep. Can't hit jumphooks consistently. Dude has bricks for hands and makes bad decisions with the ball.

Zo had a much more aggressive, assertive mentality where he'd demand the ball and force his team to feed him down low. It's why he clashed with LJ and ended up getting traded. I can't think of anything Howard does better than Zo save for pick and roll defense (due to Howard's edge in athleticism) and rebounding and remember that Zo was rebounding next to LJ, Parish, PJ Brown, Gattison, Owens, Kurt Thomas etc. Howard plays with undersized, uncoventional fowards that can't rebound worth a lick. People are impressed with Howard's shot blocking but Zo's anticipation, timing and will to contest shots was much superior than his. Guy went for everything possible which did hurt his team on a few occasions (gambling isn't always the greatest) but it also set fear in the minds of guys who were looking to penetrate. On offense, Zo wasn't perfect and that's why he was a notch below than Dream, Shaq, Admiral and Pat but he was much superior than Howard. Dwight Howard in the 90s wouldn't be much better than Kevin Willis who was never considered an elite player.

Dwight has mastered that jump hook with both hands, it's obviously not 100% (no shot is), but he hits it more than he misses it.

If the NBA was allowed to be as physical as it was back then, Dwight would be able to play much more freely.

Zo had 4 20/10 seasons, Dwight has 2 already (although I'll definitely admit, Zo's competition was way harder).

Dwight does have a nice guy demeanor (sometimes, it seems like everyone is either calling him a nice guy or a dirty player, something not adding up?), but so does the rest of the NBA. That's just how times are nowadays.

Also, Dwight was averaging 12.3 before Rashard Lewis came in with the stretch 4 mentality.

[nbacardDOTnet]

1 bad game against those centers is not "being stopped" by them, he also regularly outperforms them and wins the overall head-to-head matchups against them for the season. Stop nit picking. I'll bring up the stats if you want, but this would only hurt your argument.

LOL @ being stopped by Ben Wallace, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, one buzzer beater does not a great player make. You act like that was some brilliant play, it was a shot at the top of the key. Even the most basic NBA player could have hit that.

Also, you're still running around with that picture? Really? Let it go man, seriously.

Also, Zo had his fair share of hard hits and elbows as well, he's also had a bad series or two. I think you didn't watch 90's era players.

I wont even comment on the "As NBA history, all the greatest C Players have been born to be the greatest C Players not imporoved.", that is easily the most ridiculous thing I have heard today (which includes a threat to a super groupie).

LMAO It's not strange your comment.
You can't accept fact. Because you are a dh12 homer.



U don't know NBA history.

Do you think dh12 is the greatest level of Bill, Wilt, Kareem kinds ? :roll:

come on



I don't deny ZO and the others(90's C Players) had elbowed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iO4l98K-1o

But they hadn't elbowed much like throuth entire series.

What do you think about this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSgawbtKtzM



Yah One buzzer doesn't mean he is beeter than dh12.

But you can't see anything ? :lol
(Because you are dh12 homer)

For example, you can see ZO's shooting range is longer,longer and longer than dh12.

I didn't want to post these pics but I have to.(because of dh12 's homer)

You can't accept real world so I would let you know real world.

This is your all time greatest level dh12 :roll:


VS Yao
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/reasonwhydwighthowardcantbeoneof-2.gif

VS Bynum

Bynum blocks Dwight Howard Twice within 2 Min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3n6jVxJ-rY

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20Situation/Revenge/AndrewBynumblocksdwighthoward100307.gif

VS Big Ben
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/-.gif

VS Roy Hibbert
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Indiana%20Pacers/Roy%20Hibbert/100106dh12.gif


VS Gerald Wallace
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Charlotte%20Bobcats/Gerald%20Wallace/100421GeraldWallaceblocksDwightHowa.gif

fake superman (aka Elbow Man) vs Real SUPERMAN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIZYl32K9Os

ZO VS dh12

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/dwight%20howard/alonzomourningdestroysdwighthoward.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/dwight%20howard/alonzomourningrejectsdwighthoward.gif

[Micku]

Zo had better post moves and he can shoot the mid. And was a great defender. I'm actually shocked that Howard isn't better or equal than Mourning in bpg. I could've sworn he had as many as Mourning.

Howard is better at finishing the ball at the rim. He is almost like Shaq in that aspect. And he is a better rebounder. Howard still has room to grow.

Mourning did face against better competition of front liners in his day, but I think Howard is going to have a more successful career and has more potential than Mourning. But he has to achieve that potential and work harder.

[zORi]

LMAO It's not strange your comment.
You can't accept fact. Because you are a dh12 homer.



U don't know NBA history.

Do you think dh12 is the greatest level of Bill, Wilt, Kareem kinds ? :roll:

come on



I don't deny ZO and the others(90's C Players) had elbowed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iO4l98K-1o

But they hadn't elbowed much like throuth entire series.

What do you think about this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSgawbtKtzM



Yah One buzzer doesn't mean he is beeter than dh12.

But you can't see anything ? :lol
(Because you are dh12 homer)

For example, you can see ZO's shooting range is longer,longer and longer than dh12.

I didn't want to post these pics but I have to.(because of dh12 's homer)

You can't accept real world so I would let you know real world.

This is your all time greatest level dh12 :roll:


VS Yao
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/reasonwhydwighthowardcantbeoneof-2.gif

VS Bynum

Bynum blocks Dwight Howard Twice within 2 Min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3n6jVxJ-rY

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20Situation/Revenge/AndrewBynumblocksdwighthoward100307.gif

VS Big Ben
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/-.gif

VS Roy Hibbert
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Indiana%20Pacers/Roy%20Hibbert/100106dh12.gif




ZO VS dh12




First off, making a bunch of gifs of Dwight getting his shot blocked doesn't mean he is worse than those guys. Anyone can do that about anyone, you're really not helping your point.

I guess Zo is worse than Vince carter?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcU66xdeGck

Vs. Grant Hill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otYKIMXU2rs

Vs. Carmelo, Mason, Josh Smith? Etc..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otYKIMXU2rs

See how easy that was? Stop with your useless gifs, you're not impressing anyone. I could easily find a video of Dwight dominating those same players as well.


Y'know, I always thought you were a Dwight hater because of that picture that you constantly pull out, but now that I see that plethora of gifs that you keep, that's all the proof I need. Find a new hobby, man.

Also, did I say Dwight was a top 10 Center? I just said that Prime Zo was better! But this notion that Dwight will never be able to approach him and that he's weak and all that is ridiculous. Far from a homer, buddy.

Also, the thing is, yeah Zo did elbow throughout an entire series, buddy. Let's not forget all the dirty stuff Garnett did against Dwight, some of which are in that very video you posted! You're destroying your own argument!

Name one player who hasn't had their shot blocked by a smaller man before?

I'll wait...

[triangleoffense]

mourning

bladers = 12, so he didnt watvh live mourning

[EarlTheGoat]

Right now I still take a prime Alonzo Mourning. Mainly because of his mentality (like many have already pointed out) and his post moves when compared to Dwight`s (although Mourning was not Hakeem or nearly him but compared to Howard he was better at the offensive end).

If people take in count regular season stats and performances, yes, they are very equal, but right now, Howard`s style of play is predictable at times and easier to guard in comparison with all time centers. I mean, Howard struggles a lot against a good team defense (2009 lakers and 2010 celtics) have proven this, even the Bobcats pulled something interesting in the first matches of the first round series this year. Make him struggle to gain the deep position, take him further from the basket, make him do forced shots, long jumping hooks...etc, thats when Howard struggles. If you allow Howard to gain the deep position your lost (he is probably better than Alonzo in that regard), his power and dunking hability and finishing hability when close is too much to handle.

Defensively I see them pretty equal, Mourning might have the edge on blocks but Howard is the slightly better rebounder (specially defensive), has more mobility for a big man (kind of Bill Russell type) and if im not wrong, he averages more steals.

So what is Howard lacking right now in comparison to all time great centers? a winning mentality, a fierce winning mentality first of all. He has to take that lame smile out of his face sometimes, and start to be a badass. There isnt more explanation needed really, simple as that. Second, he needs to improve his passing skills, with the amount of double teams he gets and the good quality spot up 3pt shooters the Magic have, he could do even more damage. Although I admit he has improved in the passing area since he entered the league. And third, as I pointed out above, needs to develop a bit more of range in his game and some more variety of post moves, the way he plays at the offensive end is still very predictable to guard when the important stage of the season comes.


Maybe in the future im going with Dwight, but of what ive seen right now, its Alonzo Mourning for me.

[Shep]

first of all mourning's peak was '99, and second of all dwight howard in '09 was easily better

[Bigsmoke]

And all those guys are better than Dwight

Mutombo aint got shit on Dwight

[jstern]

Mourning, even though I don't like him.

[ronnymac]

Mutombo aint got shit on Dwight
Moutombo is one of the greatest defensive C's that the game has ever seen. One of the greatest shotblocker and rebounders basketball has ever seen. He took the Nuggets from the 8th seed and beat the number 1 Sonics in their prime with guys like Shawn Kemp, Gary Payon, Nate McMillian,Detlef Schremf and Eddie Johonson.

Early on his career Deke was 17 points per game game player but he changed his game and concentrated on defense.Deke could score if he needed to.

[greymatter]

:lol at Deke "could score if he needed to".

You guys thought Howard has bad footwork and looks awkward on offense? Deke makes Al Gore look like Michael Jackson. How many quality players out there have ever had their rookie season as their best scoring season?

[greymatter]

As to the OP: Mourning with the slight edge on both ends.

[ronnymac]

:lol at Deke "could score if he needed to".

You guys thought Howard has bad footwork and looks awkward on offense? Deke makes Al Gore look like Michael Jackson. How many quality players out there have ever had their rookie season as their best scoring season?
Deke was a consistant 16 points per game player in his first few seasons. He wasnt pretty, but he could score off put backs and few hand offs.

[greymatter]

Deke was a consistant 16 points per game player in his first few seasons.

You've a very poor memory.

First five season averages: 16.6, 13.8, 12.0, 11.5, 11.0. Has there ever been an allstar caliber player in league history with decreasing scoring averages over his first 5 seasons?



He wasnt pretty, but he could score off put backs and few hand offs.

He was at best a rich man's Mark Eaton.

[ronnymac]

First few seasons if you add up the first 3 season averages, it equates to around 14 a game and thats what i meant.Secondly it went down because he was better off focusing on what his strength was and that was to play defense. He had high scoring guys like Abdul rauf and LaPhonso Ellis(both in Denver and Atlanta) and Steve Smith with Mookie Baylock in Atlanta.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I like Deke and if I needed someone to guard prime Shaq, Yao, Ewing ect. I'd say he'd do a better job, but in terms of building a championship team, I'd take Mourning and Howard over him 10 times out of 10.

As great as Mutombo was, he was never a legit franchise player/superstar like Mourning and Howard. Mourning and Howard can dominate defensively while giving you 20 ppg.

[greymatter]

First few seasons if you add up the first 3 season averages, it equates to around 14 a game and thats what i meant.Secondly it went down because he was better off focusing on what his strength was and that was to play defense. He had high scoring guys like Abdul rauf and LaPhonso Ellis(both in Denver and Atlanta) and Steve Smith with Mookie Baylock in Atlanta.

Focus schmocus. He simply wasn't a good option to run an offense through. His jump hook looked uglier than Anthony Mason's FT technique.

[Nastradamus]

kidding? Zo. Next. Better defender(Dwight is great due to athletic ability, but Zo was better man to man and was generally tougher) and better true post scorer and brought a tenacity that Dwight can't dream of. He just likes to laugh and play.

[ChuckOakley]

I don't see Zo leading the Magic team to the Finals that Dwight did. Zo never made the Finals until late in his career with Miami, and never led his team there.

Dwight is just such a monster on the boards and defensively. If Howard could play as physical as Zo was allowed to he would be even more frightening.

It's close, and may depend on team need, but I have to go with Dwight, especially considering he is only 24 and has yet to peak.

[BFRESH44]

I don't see Zo leading the Magic team to the Finals that Dwight did. Zo never made the Finals until late in his career with Miami, and never led his team there.

:oldlol: There was this guy named Michael Jordan who played in the Eastern Conference in the 90's, when Zo had a team capable of going all the way(96-97 61 win "Road Warriors" Miami Heat).

Dwight would've never seen the Finals in that era, either.

[jbryan1984]

Zo was never as good as Dwight currently is imo.

[ChuckOakley]

:oldlol: There was this guy named Michael Jordan who played in the Eastern Conference in the 90's, when Zo had a team capable of going all the way(96-97 61 win "Road Warriors" Miami Heat).

Dwight would've never seen the Finals in that era, either.
96 - 1st round sweep to CHI
97 - ECF lost to CHI
98 - 1st round to NYK
99 - 1st round to NYK
00 - 2nd round to NYK
01 - 1st round sweep to CHA
02 - Missed playoffs

[zORi]

:oldlol: There was this guy named Michael Jordan who played in the Eastern Conference in the 90's, when Zo had a team capable of going all the way(96-97 61 win "Road Warriors" Miami Heat).

Dwight would've never seen the Finals in that era, either.

If only the world were built on woulds and coulds......

And what about in '98 when they didn't even make it out of the first round? Despite being the 2nd seed and facing the 7th seed Knicks with HCA?

Can't blame Jordan for that.

[SCdac]

In 1999, the Heats best scorers in the playoffs outside of Zo averaged 10.2 PPG (PJ Brown) and 10.0 PPG (Jamal Mashburn). He played with some great teams in those years, Tim Hardaway could take over games and Riley is obviously good, but I felt he was more of the man for his team than Dwight is. You could say Dwight lead his team to the Finals, and he did, but undoubtedly he had (and still has) alot of help on the offensive end - for instance he finished 4th in field goal attempts for the Magic in the 09 post season behind Lewis, Turk, and Alston. That much fire power around you surely opens things up for Dwight, and when teams buckle down on defense (like LA did, and Boston did this last season) it makes it much harder for Howard. If I had to choose a player to generate offense on a not-so-great team, it would probably be Alonzo with his more polished offense.

[DatWasNashty]

If only the world were built on woulds and coulds......

And what about in '98 when they didn't even make it out of the first round? Despite being the 2nd seed and facing the 7th seed Knicks with HCA?

Can't blame Jordan for that.
You forgot to mention that Zo was suspended for game 5 because of the brawl with LJ. He was also playing injured that series cause of a broken nose. He had a mask on for the first 3 games which disrupted his game a bit. Game 4, he had 29 pts on 79% shooting. Nobody could really guard him since Ewing was injured for the series. 1999, his teammates were absolute trash in the playoffs. Mashburn, the resident chokeartist, saw a severe decline in his game in the postseason. He could never really get going in a structured offense like Miami had. Tim Hardaway shot 27% from the field and was locked up by Childs and Ward. He has to be one of the most overrated point guards from that era. Too reliant on deep / pull up 3s and he lost his explosiveness in his Miami years. How we can blame Zo for this is beyond me.....


96 - 1st round sweep to CHI
97 - ECF lost to CHI
98 - 1st round to NYK
99 - 1st round to NYK
00 - 2nd round to NYK
01 - 1st round sweep to CHA
02 - Missed playoffs
Dwight wouldn't lead them any further. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. The thought of Dwight standing up to Rodman makes me cringe. Dude would probably start smiling.

[SinJackal]

Great comparison. Two very close players.

Many people don't remember Alonzo's defensive impact since it goes beyond stats. Much like David Robinson and Tim Duncan (not quite on their level, but still very good), he had a large defensive impact since he tried hard on both ends of the floor all the time. He had good spacing, almost always contested shots well, and dude put in buckets on the other end.

Let's not forget how much of a beast the guy was 'til '01. Even when he burst onto the scene as a rookie, he was extremely good. I still remember the Zo/LJ combo for the Hornets, lol :P


Howard's a more dominant rebounder though (sort of obvious), but something tells me those stats of his are going to slide a bit within the next couple years. Great centers usually stop going all out for boards after a handful of years when they start to conserve their energy a bit more throughout games so they can play extra minutes.

Still, taking nothing away from him, he's the best defender in the NBA right now, and imo that's not even debatable. My only curent beef with Howard are his offense. If he could somehow improve his FT shooting a bit, or at least develop some extra post moves so he's more of a go-to guy, people will start giving him the props he deserves. It kills me to see people's top 5 or top 10 current NBA players lists, and he's somehow not on it. Dude's a top 3-5 player easily.

Anyway, who to pick. . .I'd probably go with Zo' since he's had the longer career and embarrassed Dwight when he was old once. That said, Howard's still one of my fav' players right now, and I'd bet he gets an MVP and a title or two at some point. . .as the main guy on his team. That'd easily propel him above Zo' in my book. Or even another 3 seasons like he's been putting up.

Two great players. . .good topic!

[ShaqAttack3234]

In 1999, the Heats best scorers in the playoffs outside of Zo averaged 10.2 PPG (PJ Brown) and 10.0 PPG (Jamal Mashburn). He played with some great teams in those years, Tim Hardaway could take over games and Riley is obviously good, but I felt he was more of the man for his team than Dwight is. You could say Dwight lead his team to the Finals, and he did, but undoubtedly he had (and still has) alot of help on the offensive end - for instance he finished 4th in field goal attempts for the Magic in the 09 post season behind Lewis, Turk, and Alston. That much fire power around you surely opens things up for Dwight, and when teams buckle down on defense (like LA did, and Boston did this last season) it makes it much harder for Howard. If I had to choose a player to generate offense on a not-so-great team, it would probably be Alonzo with his more polished offense.

No doubt that Howard had more help in '09 than Zo in '99 or '00, but I think just FGA are deceptive, Dwight gets fouled on a lot of his attempts because his game is around the rim. Here are their attempts if you divide the FTA by 2 and add them to the FGA and call them scoring attempts.

Here are their numbers for the 2009 playoffs

1.Lewis- 16.9 scoring attempts
2.Howard- 16.6 scoring attempts
3.Turkoglu- 14.7 scoring attempts
4.Alston- 13.1 scoring attempts

Lewis and Howard were basically identical, but Orlando's offense did revolve more around Howard than Lewis and he was definitely doubled more than Lewis.

[SCdac]

Getting away from the direct comparison a bit... I know this thread was about two particular season for these guys, even though it's turned into an all-around comparison... seems like people have quickly forgotten that Dwight is just a couple years removed from a second and first round rout by the Pistons... and that he just came off a 18 PPG reg season and post season, which is sort of underwhelming for a supposed "superstar", who should be a 20 PPG or more player with the tools he has... the way he's talked about as one of the greatest big men to grace the game, is a head scratcher to me... He reminds me of like a very rich man's Andris Biedrins, versus say a really poor man's Shaq... I think there's a reason about 90% of the people in this thread, including the OP, have picked Zo ('s season) as the better one.

[alexandreben]

It's really unfaire to compare a 24-25 years old DH12 with Zo... I wonder what a real Peak, 27-28 years old, DH12 could be...

[SCdac]

No doubt that Howard had more help in '09 than Zo in '99 or '00, but I think just FGA are deceptive, Dwight gets fouled on a lot of his attempts because his game is around the rim. Here are their attempts if you divide the FTA by 2 and add them to the FGA and call them scoring attempts.

Here are their numbers for the 2009 playoffs

1.Lewis- 16.9 scoring attempts
2.Howard- 16.6 scoring attempts
3.Turkoglu- 14.7 scoring attempts
4.Alston- 13.1 scoring attempts

Lewis and Howard were basically identical, but Orlando's offense did revolve more around Howard than Lewis and he was definitely doubled more than Lewis.

I don't think it's deceptive at all.

When the PF and SF are taking over 200 three pointers combined in the playoffs, it gives the center a certain amount of room to operate. I definitely saw a reciprocal offensive system, versus one that was merely and solely inside-out. There were a good amount of games where one of Lewis, Pietrus, Turk, etc, lead in scoring. I don't quite see Howard as an elite offensive player in the mold of some past players, as much as a player who is above-average offensively, who can go off for elite-like scoring games. His moves and touch just isn't there consistently enough.

Howard gets to the line very well on his own accord, he's almost impossible to keep of the glass at times, but surely teams don't mind and even put him on the line on purpose. It gets the other team in foul trouble, but 6 fouls for a bunch of bigs isn't that hard to expend, and making only 55-65% of your free throws, that tends to be the kind of player "hack a ____" strategies are based on. I'd rather make Howard go to the line and earn his points on every possession, than let him get easy buckets.

[SCdac]

It's really unfaire to compare a 24-25 years old DH12 with Zo... I wonder what a real Peak, 27-28 years old, DH12 could be...

Why are we absolutely, with a great amount of certainty, assuming he's going to become much better than he is now? Merely because weeks and months go by? I do think he'll improve with experience, but if anything, he's regressed in the past season... and it's not about statistics really, it's about him, his keenness and acumen, or lack thereof, and is he willing to (or can he) improve on it.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Getting away from the direct comparison a bit... I know this thread was about two particular season for these guys, even though it's turned into an all-around comparison... seems like people have quickly forgotten that Dwight is just a couple years removed from a second and first round rout by the Pistons... and that he just came off a 18 PPG reg season and post season, which is sort of underwhelming for a supposed "superstar", who should be a 20 PPG or more player with the tools he has... the way he's talked about as one of the greatest big men to grace the game, is a head scratcher to me... He reminds me of like a very rich man's Andris Biedrins, versus say a really poor man's Shaq... I think there's a reason about 90% of the people in this thread, including the OP, have picked Zo ('s season) as the better one.

Even a very rich man's Biedrins is harsh, IMO. While Dwight isn't that polished offensively, I've still seen better post moves from Howard than Biedrins, he has off the charts athleticism and his defensive impact is light years ahead of Biedrins. I think he's too far away from either Biedrins or Shaq to make a comparison. That's why I made the comparison here, Howard to me is a less skilled, more athletic Mourning and in the end, I take the skills because they're more reliable when the production is similar.

And we do basically have a consensus so far.

Mourning
Me
lukekarts
Rose
ronnymac
2Letters
Sarcastic
BFRESH44
AlonzoMagic
CambyLandCan
Jasper
SCdac
Thorpesaurus
LAClipsFan33
andgar923
necya
Manute for ever
Dwade305
tontoz
FindingTim
zORI
RocketGreatness
Showtime
nbacardDOTnet
DatWasNashty
oh the horror
triangleoffense
EarlTheGoat
jstern
greymatter
Nastradamus
SinJackal

Howard
Bladers
joyner82
Magic Vinsanity
Shep
ChuckOakley
jbryan1984

31 have picked Zo and 6 have picked Howard

[ZenMaster]

Dwight Howard hasn't peaked yet.

[zORi]

You forgot to mention that Zo was suspended for game 5 because of the brawl with LJ. He was also playing injured that series cause of a broken nose. He had a mask on for the first 3 games which disrupted his game a bit. Game 4, he had 29 pts on 79% shooting. Nobody could really guard him since Ewing was injured for the series. 1999, his teammates were absolute trash in the playoffs. Mashburn, the resident chokeartist, saw a severe decline in his game in the postseason. He could never really get going in a structured offense like Miami had. Tim Hardaway shot 27% from the field and was locked up by Childs and Ward. He has to be one of the most overrated point guards from that era. Too reliant on deep / pull up 3s and he lost his explosiveness in his Miami years. How we can blame Zo for this is beyond me.....


Dwight wouldn't lead them any further. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. The thought of Dwight standing up to Rodman makes me cringe. Dude would probably start smiling.

Nah I didn't forget to mention, I could also counter that with the fact that the only team Zo ever beat Ewing in a series was when Ewing (and most of his team) was suspended for multiple games because of a fight.

Or that fact that in 1999 Zo was 28 (turned 28 about a month and a half before the start), while Ewing was 36 (turning 37 about 3 and a half months later). Poor excuse.

I also wasn't blaming Zo, I was just saying it's not like he had a beautiful career with no blemishes. Every player has.

Seriously, this smiling thing is getting ridiculous. He jokes around during games, but never when it's close, not only that, but almost every player does this. I could find a clip or 2 of Kobe playing around with Wade and Nash during games, it happens. I bet everyone who has to guard him doesn't think he's too nice.

BTW, I'm starting to think that people here are thinking I don't like Zo. I do, actually, but the notion that Dwight can't approach him is ridiculous.

[zORi]

Why are we absolutely, with a great amount of certainty, assuming he's going to become much better than he is now? Merely because weeks and months go by? I do think he'll improve with experience, but if anything, he's regressed in the past season... and it's not about statistics really, it's about him, his keenness and acumen, or lack thereof, and is he willing to (or can he) improve on it.

He's bound to increase a little, but the opportunity is there for him to increase quite a bit.

We can't say that he will, but we also can't say that he won't, either.

[The_Yearning]

Dwight Howard hasn't peaked yet.

You sure? He's not going to be running and jumping around like this at 27. He has no fundamentals.

[Papaya Petee]

Alonzo, but I am also a Heat fan so..

[Papaya Petee]

olajuwon, robinson, o'neal and mourning are a lot better than howard.
then, olajuwon, robinson, mourning and mutombo are better defensive players than howard. not even to mention others great defenders of the 90's who were not centers...
that shows the value of his 2 DPOY...the league sucks.

Further proof to why I hate people who talk shit about todays league but still watch it.

[zORi]

Further proof to why I hate people who talk shit about todays league but still watch it.

Repped.

[ukplayer4]

give me zo every time, better at both ends, dwight is the better rebounder but zo actually had an offensive game and jump shot + the most intimidating defensive big man ever?

[ukplayer4]

to people saying dwight hasnt peaked yet, how exactly do you come to this conclusion, his game has not improved in three years, nothing has changed nothing has improved, he is what he is.

[Papaya Petee]

give me zo every time, better at both ends, dwight is the better rebounder but zo actually had an offensive game and jump shot + the most intimidating defensive big man ever?
Wow, I love Zo as a player, but this is hating on Dwight.

[ukplayer4]

Wow, I love Zo as a player, but this is hating on Dwight.



which part?

[Papaya Petee]

which part?

The thing in general, their gap on defense isn't that much at all, and Dwight is the most intimidating defensive presence in the game today. On offence its super close too, Alonzo might have the slighter edge, but Dwight isn't at his peak yet.

[redhonda76]

As of right now, I would pick Zo over Dwight. Saying Dwight is a better rebounder is misleading because it's based on the stats, team makeup as well of the type of offense played. Zo played with PJ Brown and LJ who were legit power forwards unlike Hedo and Rashard are mostly small forwards. Dwight, being the only guy inside would obviously have a huge chance of getting the rebound without his PF fighting for it. Zo also plays a much slower pace in Pat Riley's grind out offense, therefore few possessions = fewer rebounding chances. All of us agreed that Zo was a better offensive and defensive player than Dwight.

However I do think Dwight is being judged too harsh here. It's not his fault that the rules of the game are very different and the era of the legit skilled center are almost gone ( Yao/Shaq/Duncan ). If Dwight were to played in the 80s/90s era, no doubt Dwight would under Mourning and above Deke. But Dwight would be a better center back then than he would be now because he would have picked up a couple of skills having played against better center competition. Dwight's limited offensive skill makes him a very predictable player, not to mention he's a poor free throw shooter.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Dwight did improve from 2007-2008 to 2008-2009 though he had a down year this year when compared to 2009.

But to say he doesn't have an offensive game is ridiculous. You can't average 21 ppg on 57-60% shooting or 20 ppg for a playoff run or even 18 ppg on 61% and not have an offensive game.

[Papaya Petee]

Dwight did improve from 2007-2008 to 2008-2009 though he had a down year this year when compared to 2009.

But to say he doesn't have an offensive game is ridiculous. You can't average 21 ppg on 57-60% shooting or 20 ppg for a playoff run or even 18 ppg on 61% and not have an offensive game.
Exactly, sure its not a pretty offensive game, but people act like the guy doesn't know how to put the ball in the bucket at all.

I'm pretty sure only 4-6 points a game come off dunks for him, so where does the rest go?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Exactly, sure its not a pretty offensive game, but people act like the guy doesn't know how to put the ball in the bucket at all.

I'm pretty sure only 4-6 points a game come off dunks for him, so where does the rest go?

I'm hoping that working with Olajuwon will help him. I saw a few games midseason where he was shooting a bank shot or 2 a game and he was making a decent amount of them. I remember one game in particular vs Dallas when Howard faced up and made a bank shot from about 12 feet back or so and on the enxt possession he faced up and sort of faked like he was going to shoot one and Haywood guarded him tighter and Howard got to the basket and got fouled. If he did that fairly regularly it'd open up his game so much. And just 1 consistent counter for the jump hook and running hook.

Actually I saw a video of Dwight vs Marcin Gortat in practice and he was killing with bank shots, spin moves, turnaround jumpers. Olajuwon actually told Dwight that he has the skills, he just can't be afraid to use them in games. So maybe confidence is an issue as well.

[ronnymac]

Focus schmocus. He simply wasn't a good option to run an offense through. His jump hook looked uglier than Anthony Mason's FT technique.
Noone said he was better, i said bigsmoke is making it out to be moutombo was some scrub so get of you're high horse.

[kentatm]

As of now give me Zo all day, every day.

[ukplayer4]

The thing in general, their gap on defense isn't that much at all, and Dwight is the most intimidating defensive presence in the game today. On offence its super close too, Alonzo might have the slighter edge, but Dwight isn't at his peak yet.



well considering there arent any intimidating shotblockers in the league anymore that isnt saying a great deal, zo's dpoy's were actually earned, zo was far more intimidating and just a better shot blocker than dwight, far tougher, that goes without saying, dwight is just a clown and doesnt have any of zo's ferocity. plus, maybe they were close in ppg but zo had a jump shot, and a consistent one at that, ill take him at both ends.

[EarlTheGoat]

Dwight did improve from 2007-2008 to 2008-2009 though he had a down year this year when compared to 2009.

But to say he doesn't have an offensive game is ridiculous. You can't average 21 ppg on 57-60% shooting or 20 ppg for a playoff run or even 18 ppg on 61% and not have an offensive game.

He has an offensive game for the regular season and for "relatively" easy playoffs series. But when it comes the big stage, like in NBA 2009 Finals, his style of game and lack of post moves basicly makes him predictable to guard for a Center, easier and predictable. Just play him a good team defense, make him not get the deep position, force him to throw long hook shots, jump shots...etc etc and you are basicly going to somehow downlow his offensive game.

Not hating on Dwight or saying he is an awful offensive player, but his lack of post moves and range is a big disadvantage when compared to other all-time centers who played this game.

[ShaqAttack3234]

He has an offensive game for the regular season and for "relatively" easy playoffs series. But when it comes the big stage, like in NBA 2009 Finals, his style of game and lack of post moves basicly makes him predictable to guard for a Center, easier and predictable. Just play him a good team defense, make him not get the deep position, force him to throw long hook shots, jump shots...etc etc and you are basicly going to somehow downlow his offensive game.

Eh, I wouldn't call the 2009 ECF relatively easy. Cleveland was an elite defensive team, they were favored and of course, it's the conference finals.

I saw some positive things as the 2010 ECF vs Boston went on as well. He averaged 22 ppg and he did have a couple of off games, but delivered in the last 3 and he had two 30 point games.

[EarlTheGoat]

Eh, I wouldn't call the 2009 ECF relatively easy. Cleveland was an elite defensive team, they were favored and of course, it's the conference finals.

I saw some positive things as the 2010 ECF vs Boston went on as well. He averaged 22 ppg and he did have a couple of off games, but delivered in the last 3 and he had two 30 point games.

To be honest, Cleveland didnt play an impressive defense in the 2009 ECF. Mike Brown is severely underrated as a defensive master coach, he didnt really structured an effective defense against Dwight. No team defense at all, they were basicly letting him reach the low-post at will, and once you let Howard get the deep position you`re done. They tried throwing him Ilgauskas or Wallace and basicly double-team him when neccesary, thats a very elementally defense, specially against players like Howard. A lot of people tend to think that a simple double-team can stop an all-star center, when its basicly not true.

As far as 2010 ECF, I watched almost all the games (except one, im not remembering which) and he struggled at many stretches of the game to get his offensive game. He didnt dominate the Celtics, didnt really came close. Boston Celtics played him a superb defense and I remember Howard taking a lot of forced impossible shots (for his range and quality) and bricking them all, and fouling him when he got the deep position, and since he is a poor FT shooter it worked. Of course, im not talking about letting him under 15 points in every single game, but I think its clear they managed to reduce his impact.

[G-train]

well considering there arent any intimidating shotblockers in the league anymore that isnt saying a great deal, zo's dpoy's were actually earned, zo was far more intimidating and just a better shot blocker than dwight, far tougher, that goes without saying, dwight is just a clown and doesnt have any of zo's ferocity. plus, maybe they were close in ppg but zo had a jump shot, and a consistent one at that, ill take him at both ends.

good post, repped

[DuMa]

Zo easily. its a good comparison as well. both are really about 6'9", 6'10"/6'10" in shoes. Both are very defensive minded. but Zo was just a better player overall.

and a side note: almost every elite center in the 90s are better than any centers today. its a really sad. Shaq is probably the last really great center we'll see for a long time. Dwight is good in his own league, time and peers. But he cannot really compare to the elite centers of the past. Yao could be great but he can really only play limited minutes because of his injury factor.

But the zo/dwight comparison can also not work because of the new rule changes. Big men today are simply not as good as the ones in the 90s or earlier were because of the rule changes. More wing players are penetrating the paint more (because of no handchecking rules) and with the inability to camp out in the lane with a 3 second rule, centers have to be pretty quick to contend the shot and defend the basket. And even if they're late by a nanosecond, its a foul and before you know it they're in foul trouble and it screws up the rest of their game. If you looked carefully in the past, the new rule changes completely changed Shaq's effectiveness sometimes around 2005-2006. Shaq might have also gotten old around then but he had too large of a dropoff to point to just old age only. It was then that I knew that the center position would no longer be the same again.

[Big#50]

good post, repped
Dwight is only 24. He has two to three years before he hits his prime. He's only going to get stronger. By the end of Dwights career he will be better than Zo.

[EarlTheGoat]

Dwight is only 24. He has two to three years before he hits his prime. He's only going to get stronger. By the end of Dwights career he will be better than Zo.

Why are you so sure about that? Who tells you he will improve his game or win rings?

[yeaaaman]

to people saying dwight hasnt peaked yet, how exactly do you come to this conclusion, his game has not improved in three years, nothing has changed nothing has improved, he is what he is.

Well he definetly improved his footwork as well as his passing out of the post if you watched you should agree. On top of that, why wouldn't you give a 24 year old player who came out of highschool the benefit of the doubt when every other thread about other young players routinely states "they haven't hit their peak yet". I don't know what makes Dwight different.

[j3lademaster]

Zo's number 1 seed Heat lost to the 8th seed Knicks and a 36 year old Ewing on one leg outplayed him in the deciding 5th game in Miami and Zo managed just 8 rpg for the series while a hobbled, old Ewing thoroughly outplayed him.

See how easy that is? Lets not act like Zo was just rolling through the playoffs and didn't have his disappointing games and series.

And then Zo comes back in 06 after the implementation of the defensive 3 seconds rule, at 35 years old after kidney altercation, to average 2.7 bpg at a limited 20 mpg. I'm not saying a prime Zo with 40 mpg would get 5.4 blocks, I know it doesn't work that way (and most of his blocks did come from worse teams), but it's definitely something to look at when comparing the interior play of Zo's prime to today's. I'd take Zo, better low post scorer, better man to man defender and equal help defender.

[knightfall88]

lol the half season Bynum played before the Gasol trade was even better than Dwight.

Dwight is pretty shit.