91/92 Clyde Drexler or 08/09 Kobe Bryant?

[beermonsteroo]

Which player would you choose for your team?

Regular season stats:

Kobe (age 30)


26.3 PPG 4.9 APG 5.2 PPG 1.5 SPG 0. 5 BPG 2.6 TPG 467% FG 351% 3P


Clyde age (29/30)

25.0 PPG 6.7 APG 6.6 RPG 1.8 SPG 0.8 BPG 3.2 TPG 47% FG 337% 3P

Playoffs

Kobe

30.2 PPG 5. 6 APG 5.7 RPG 457% FG 34% 3P

Clyde

26.3 PPG 7.4 APG 7.0 RPG 466% FG 23% 3P

So Kobe scored a little bit more then Clyde, but Clyde had a slightly better FG%. Kobe is probably the better shooter at the time ( see 3P%) but Clyde certainly was much more athlethic and hence got more easy points. Don't forget that the rules were a lot harder for SG back then.

Clyde certainly was a better playmaker then Kobe which the APG show pretty clearly too.
In rebounding Clyde was doubtlessly superior to Kobe.
This is not only true for those particular years, but for their careers as a whole. Clyde most defintely was better in passing and rebounding.

Clyde also has the advantage in steals and blocks over Kobe. Not only becuase of his superor athlethics, Clyde in 92 was a better defender then Kobe in 08. not really debatable.

So all in all the numbers quiet clearly favor Clyde and i think when you actually watch the games most people would agree that Clyde wins this one.

Another reason why i would pick Clyde of course is his more sepctular way of playing.:D
Clyde in 92 was still a real highflyer and "Air Jordan" type of Player. Kobe in 08 was already more like a "Floor Jordan" type of player. Settling more for jumoers then driving to the hoop.

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Clyde-Drexler.jpg

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000074934/polls_kobe_jumper_1941_557824_answer_1_xlarge.jpeg

[john_d]

i don't get it.
you thread title asked a question and yet your post content makes it seem that your already made up your mind.

[beermonsteroo]

i don't get it.
you thread title asked a question and yet your post content makes it seem that your already made up your mind.

Of course i 've. To some extend.
Nevertheless i want to know your guys opinion.

[Shep]

bryant

[necya]

even if kobe is one of the most amazing scorer when he hits a rush, i pick Drexler, he is a more intelligent and complete player. he has this rare faculty to make his teammates around better. his battle against Bird whas memorable to me.
top 3 SG for me.
i'm happy to have the game when he dunked near from the FT line against the lakers.

[jstern]

Based on those numbers. (And considering things like hand checking) I would have to go with Drexler.

[beermonsteroo]

even if kobe is one of the most amazing scorer when he hits a rush, i pick Drexler, he is a more intelligent and complete player. he has this rare faculty to make his teammates around better. his battle against Bird whas memorable to me.
top 3 SG for me.
i'm happy to have the game when he dunked near from the FT line against the lakers.

As much as i love Clyde, this dunk is a little overrated:D
In the replay it looks like he jumoped way further then he actually did.
It's a cool dunk. It's from far behind. But near the foul line? Well, not really.
Pause it at 0:44.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO9N_IBU4wo

[crosso√er]

even if kobe is one of the most amazing scorer when he hits a rush, i pick Drexler, he is a more intelligent and complete player. he has this rare faculty to make his teammates around better. his battle against Bird whas memorable to me.
top 3 SG for me.
i'm happy to have the game when he dunked near from the FT line against the lakers.

You're claiming Drexler is a better player career wise or just comparing those particular years?

Statistical inferences are meaningless when comparing years from completely different eras; unless you're considering pace (of the game) into your deliberation.

92': Two teams scored below 100 PPG; League average was 47.3%
08': Seventeen teams scored below 100 PPG; League average was 45.9%

Back in 1992 the rules allowed for a faster game, translating into higher offensive numbers. I'm not talking about PPG here either, I'm talking about the entire picture. You comparing their numbers as some sort of reasoning is rather skewed and misleading.

[beermonsteroo]

[Back in 1992 the rules allowed for a faster game, translating into higher offensive numbers. I'm not talking about PPG here either, I'm talking about the entire picture. You comparing their numbers as some sort of reasoning is rather skewed and misleading.[/QUOTE]


:wtf: What rules allowed a faster game? :wtf:

[jstern]

You're claiming Drexler is a better player career wise or just comparing those particular years?

Statistical inferences are meaningless when comparing years from completely different eras; unless you're considering pace (of the game) into your deliberation.

92': Two teams scored below 100 PPG; League average was 47.3%
08': Seventeen teams scored below 100 PPG; League average was 45.9%

Back in 1992 the rules allowed for a faster game, translating into higher offensive numbers. I'm not talking about PPG here either, I'm talking about the entire picture. You comparing their numbers as some sort of reasoning is rather skewed and misleading.

Can you do me a favor and look up the averages for position? Because you also have to consider that the league had a lot of good offensive Centers back then which surely rose the league average. I do know that the Lakers 106.9 ppg when Kobe was 30, and the Blazers averaged 111.4ppg. That's a 4.5ppg difference that has to be divided up by the 5 starters and the bench players. So I think the stats are still very comparable.

[indiefan24]

The OP should have just said Clyde > Kobe

[Lakerlove420]

Clyde was pretty smooth .. but I pick Kobe ...

[Bigsmoke]

Kobe... duh.

[crosso√er]

Can you do me a favor and look up the averages for position? Because you also have to consider that the league had a lot of good offensive Centers back then which surely rose the league average. I do know that the Lakers 106.9 ppg when Kobe was 30, and the Blazers averaged 111.4ppg. That's a 4.5ppg difference that has to be divided up by the 5 starters and the bench players. So I think the stats are still very comparable.

You're comparing apples with oranges; what does comparing two teams from different eras prove? I did some research and found out that in 92' two teams per game averaged almost ten more possessions then teams in 2010 did.

One of the main reasons the pace has slowed visibly in the last half decade is primarily because of zone defense; that is why Stern was hesitant to institute this rule to begin with.

[beermonsteroo]

You're comparing apples with oranges; what does comparing two teams from different eras prove? I did some research and found out that in 92' two teams per game averaged almost ten more possessions then teams in 2010 did.

One of the main reasons the pace has slowed visibly in the last half decade is primarily because of zone defense; that is why Stern was hesitant to institute this rule to begin with.

The pace of the game was already going down way before zone was introduced.

[jrong]

Kobe ten times out of ten. The overrating of past players is becoming epidemic.

[beermonsteroo]

Kobe ten times out of ten. The overrating of past players is becoming epidemic.

Back up your opinion:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[jstern]

You're comparing apples with oranges; what does comparing two teams from different eras prove? I did some research and found out that in 92' two teams per game averaged almost ten more possessions then teams in 2010 did.

One of the main reasons the pace has slowed visibly in the last half decade is primarily because of zone defense; that is why Stern was hesitant to institute this rule to begin with.
No, the league in the mid 90s was starting to score less and less, including 91ppg in 99, and ever since the league has been changing the rules to increase scoring. The league changed the rules, so that today teams could average more points per game. This was the reason given for the rule changes, so it's not a secret.

2 different eras. You gave a reason why we couldn't compare those 2 players based providing stats, and I gave a logical explanation to the stats you gave as why we could. Centers shooting higher percentage shots, unlike today, and only a 4.5 ppg difference between those 2 teams. I'm just using stats like you were.

[okayabc123]

Drexler was good, but he was known as a slasher and above average scorer. His mid-range was decent but not Kobe good. And his long range was no where near Kobe.

The problem with stats is that the one thing people always sh!t on Kobe is his FG%, and that translate to him not "making other players better", "he is selfish".

No, Kobe isn't Jordan good. But stop trying to compare X player's one season to Kobe's one season and use that as "look, Kobe is not even as good as player X."

Complete BS. Watch the games, stop just going to basketball-reference.com and go through the entire player stats history, and just go "hey, here is a player that I can start a post to say, he is better than Kobe because he had higher assist average or scoring average, or he shot 2 percent higher than Kobe in FG%. "

[crosso√er]

The pace of the game was already going down way before zone was introduced.

That defines Stern's stupidity; he instituted the zone defense to increase the pace of the game, subsequently he added the "illegal defense" rule because zone defense wasn't really working. The pace was slowing down at the beginning of 90's; the hand checking rule was also removed for that reason alone. Now that you're at least admitting the pace has dramatically decreased between 92' and 08'; I'll tell you why.

It's mostly because of the Bad Boy Pistons and Michael Jordan; more teams started to adopt their style of play and converge on other teams superstars. If you analyze the trend, you can see the pace slowly going down every year. In the midst of our last decade, the pace has been quite erratic. Mostly due to Stern's experiments at trying to increase the pace of the game.

What I'm trying to say to you is that teams mindset changed (as it pertains to playing defense) and while Stern tried to counterbalance that mindset by initializing different rules (zone defense, 3 seconds, hand checking rule) that backfired completely.

Like I said, different era; can't really compare players via stats without examining the pace of the game.

[beermonsteroo]

Drexler was good, but he was known as a slasher and above average scorer. His mid-range was decent but not Kobe good. And his long range was no where near Kobe.

The problem with stats is that the one thing people always sh!t on Kobe is his FG%, and that translate to him not "making other players better", "he is selfish".

No, Kobe isn't Jordan good. But stop trying to compare X player's one season to Kobe's one season and use that as "look, Kobe is not even as good as player X."

Complete BS. Watch the games, stop just going to basketball-reference.com and go through the entire player stats history, and just go "hey, here is a player that I can start a post to say, he is better than Kobe because he had higher assist average or scoring average, or he shot 2 percent higher than Kobe in FG%. "

The question wasn't which player has a better career overall
The question was ehich player was better in those particular years. Years in which both were about the same age and both made it to the finals.
Looking at the numbers and watching the games it is not bull shit to rank this version of Clyde over Kobe.

[beermonsteroo]

That defines Stern's stupidity; he instituted the zone defense to increase the pace of the game, subsequently he added the "illegal defense" rule because zone defense wasn't really working. The pace was slowing down at the beginning of 90's; the hand checking rule was also removed for that reason alone. Now that you're at least admitting the pace has dramatically decreased between 92' and 08'; I'll tell you why.

It's mostly because of the Bad Boy Pistons and Michael Jordan; more teams started to adopt their style of play and converge on other teams superstars. If you analyze the trend, you can see the pace slowly going down every year. In the midst of our last decade, the pace has been quite erratic. Mostly due to Stern's experiments at trying to increase the pace of the game.

What I'm trying to say to you is that teams mindset changed (as it pertains to playing defense) and while Stern tried to counterbalance that mindset by initializing different rules (zone defense, 3 seconds, hand checking rule) that backfired completely.

Like I said, different era; can't really compare players via stats without examining the pace of the game.

He really introduced zone cause he thought it makes the game faster?
I knew stern is stupid, but this blows me away nevertheless:D

[jrong]

Back up your opinion:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Other than MJ, the other MJ, Bird, and Kareem, today's megastars surpass the stars of the 80s and 90s. Look at Drexler's advanced stats. They compare to Kobe's but Kobe has the rings as the trump card. But, compare him to Wade. Wade's PER crushes Drexler's. Drexler never had a PER higher tha 24.1. Wade has had a higher PER than that all but three years of his career.

And I'll explain to you the difference that is showing up when on the face their "actual stats" seem somewhat more similar. Pace. So LeBron, Wade, Chris Paul-- these guys are doing more on fewer possessions and they are doing it more efficiently.

Only the absolute cream of the 80s can top the contingent of megastars we have today. There's a reason I'm so excited about the NBA now. We have a big three like we had in the 80s. We have an Isiah Thomas figure in Chris Paul. We have a center in Dwight Howard who could become a Ewing or even an Olajuwon (he's still young-- it's not too late)....

[ImmortalD24]

Regular season stats:

Kobe (age 30)


26.3 PPG 4.9 APG 5.2 PPG 1.5 SPG 0. 5 BPG 2.6 TPG 467% FG 351% 3P


Clyde age (29/30)

25.0 PPG 6.7 APG 6.6 RPG 1.8 SPG 0.8 BPG 3.2 TPG 47% FG 337% 3P

Playoffs

Kobe

30.2 PPG 5. 6 APG 5.7 RPG 457% FG 34% 3P

Clyde

26.3 PPG 7.4 APG 7.0 RPG 466% FG 23% 3P
Where did you get your stats? and how is Clyde Drexler 30 that season? You do realize his birthday is after the finals, right?

[KenneBell]

Look at Drexler's advanced stats. They compare to Kobe's but Kobe has the rings as the trump card. But, compare him to Wade.

Kobe had a higher PER in '09 than Drexler had in his career as well. The difference gets even larger when comparing playoff runs.

[okayabc123]

The question wasn't which player has a better career overall
The question was ehich player was better in those particular years. Years in which both were about the same age and both made it to the finals.
Looking at the numbers and watching the games it is not bull shit to rank this version of Clyde over Kobe.

Based on what facts that Drexler was better than Kobe at the same age? That he had a higher assist and rebound avg per game than Kobe? Clyde was not the defensive player Kobe is, Clyde couldn't hit a 3 to save his life in the playoff that year. Clyde sucked in the finals... and if you want to pull stats like anyone and everyone could... Clyde shot a whopping 40.7 FG% and 15% from 3s, and he let his counterpart MJ to shoot over 50 FG% and 42% in 3s.

If you want to tell me Clyde was a better rebounder than Kobe in 91-92, sure.. go right ahead. But tell me Clyde as a better player? Uh.. that's a hell no!

[G-Funk]

Kobe's O/D > Drexler's O/D

[glidedrxlr22]

Clyde was pretty smooth .. but I pick Kobe ...

Of course you do bro. No shocker there.

[Lakerlove420]

Of course you do bro. No shocker there.

right. and I wonder who you pick glidedrxlr22.
no shock. what's your point ..

[glidedrxlr22]

right. and I wonder who you pick glidedrxlr22.
no shock. what's your point ..

My point is that I can pick other players over Clyde if they are better than him. You can't pick anyone over Kobe kid.

In this comparison, it's just a one season comparison. Those who are picking Clyde like his playmaking abilities. For this reason I'd pick Clyde for this one season, but Kobe has had the better career and is the better player.

[Showtime]

Does the OP honestly think he's going to get anything other than a troll thread?

[Bring-Your-Js]

right. and I wonder who you pick glidedrxlr22.
no shock. what's your point ..


:oldlol:

[Lakerlove420]

My point is that I can pick other players over Clyde if they are better than him. You can't pick anyone over Kobe kid.

Kobe has had the best career and is the bestest player.

(fixed)


read your last sentence and tell me why I would pick someone over Kobe

[whatever666]

Clyde! Better overall numbers

[glidedrxlr22]

(fixed)


read your last sentence and tell me why I would pick someone over Kobe

Wow....you should remove kobe's nuts off your chin already. The man crush is nauseating.

[Lakerlove420]

Wow....you should remove kobe's nuts off your chin already. The man crush is nauseating.

good one funnyman. I simply answered the question.
I said Glide was smooth .. but I would take Kobe.
I didn't bring him up, I didn't post paragraphs of stats,
I didn't do nothing. I'm just sitting here.
Magic is my fav player. . look at my avatar ..
look at my ISH name .. it says LAKERLOVE ..
it doesn't say ILOVEKOBE

then look at your ISH name. specified to one player
Clyde 'the GLIDE' Drexler. So if you want to talk about
man-obsessive nut-lovin .. then that's you buddy.

don't see the Lakers and just group me with Kobe nut-tuggers
or Laker/Kobe bandwagoners from Virginia or some sh*t.
I've been out here my whole life son and have been
a straight up Laker way before Kobe fella.

don't come at me sideways guy . . might get chin-checked.
but then again . . I don't want Clydecum on my fist or splattering
everywhere off of your face

[Lakerlove420]

Wow....you should remove kobe's nuts off your chin already. The man crush is nauseating.

glidedrxlr22: "i wish he would dance with me like that
I even let him splatter my face . . this sucks ... ..."

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/clydeDrexler072109.jpg

[glidedrxlr22]

Tough words from an e-thug. In the few months you

[King Kong]

Drexler

[Yung D-Will]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woAK1i-o2wI




When you can go on equal ground against Larry Bird I think it saids something about who you are as a player.

Just saying

[john_d]

Glide has better overall numbers.

but since kobe won the ring that year. i'll pick kobe

[chips93]

Glide has better overall numbers.

but since kobe won the ring that year. i'll pick kobe

kobe didnt have to beat a prime mj to win his ring

[indiefan24]

[QUOTE=glidedrxlr22]Tough words from an e-thug. In the few months you

[john_d]

kobe didnt have to beat a prime mj to win his ring
not entirely true. he beat the turkish mj. ^^

in fear of going offtopic, what your saying is that
can glide's 02 blazers beat the 09 magic
and can kobe's 09 lakers beat 02 bulls

the anwer is . we will never know ^^

[guy]

Other than MJ, the other MJ, Bird, and Kareem, today's megastars surpass the stars of the 80s and 90s. Look at Drexler's advanced stats. They compare to Kobe's but Kobe has the rings as the trump card. But, compare him to Wade. Wade's PER crushes Drexler's. Drexler never had a PER higher tha 24.1. Wade has had a higher PER than that all but three years of his career.

And I'll explain to you the difference that is showing up when on the face their "actual stats" seem somewhat more similar. Pace. So LeBron, Wade, Chris Paul-- these guys are doing more on fewer possessions and they are doing it more efficiently.

Only the absolute cream of the 80s can top the contingent of megastars we have today. There's a reason I'm so excited about the NBA now. We have a big three like we had in the 80s. We have an Isiah Thomas figure in Chris Paul. We have a center in Dwight Howard who could become a Ewing or even an Olajuwon (he's still young-- it's not too late)....

I disagree. Other then Jordan, Magic, and Bird, I'd say there's alot better wing players and PGs, but its offset by the fact that big men were much better back then. The center position has just taken a huge dip.

And lets take 1992 and compare it to now. The top 12 probably look something like this:

Jordan
Hakeem
Barkley
Drexler
Malone
Ewing
Robinson
Pippen
Bird
Stockton
Isiah
KJ

And to be fair, let me note that Bird and Isiah were clearly on the decline.

Top 12 today is probably something like:

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Howard
Durant
CP3
Deron
Dirk
Melo
Gasol
Bosh
Nash

I really don't see much of a difference and if I had to choose, I'd probably pick the 1992 top 12 cause of Jordan and the greater quality in centers.

[necya]

You're claiming Drexler is a better player career wise or just comparing those particular years?

Statistical inferences are meaningless when comparing years from completely different eras; unless you're considering pace (of the game) into your deliberation.

92': Two teams scored below 100 PPG; League average was 47.3%
08': Seventeen teams scored below 100 PPG; League average was 45.9%

Back in 1992 the rules allowed for a faster game, translating into higher offensive numbers. I'm not talking about PPG here either, I'm talking about the entire picture. You comparing their numbers as some sort of reasoning is rather skewed and misleading.

what are you talking about??? i'm comparing numbers? where? the league in 92 was way better than any 2000 year. and yeah, the clyde drewler is a better basketball player than kobe bryant for my part.

[beermonsteroo]

Other than MJ, the other MJ, Bird, and Kareem, today's megastars surpass the stars of the 80s and 90s. Look at Drexler's advanced stats. They compare to Kobe's but Kobe has the rings as the trump card. But, compare him to Wade. Wade's PER crushes Drexler's. Drexler never had a PER higher tha 24.1. Wade has had a higher PER than that all but three years of his career.

And I'll explain to you the difference that is showing up when on the face their "actual stats" seem somewhat more similar. Pace. So LeBron, Wade, Chris Paul-- these guys are doing more on fewer possessions and they are doing it more efficiently.

Only the absolute cream of the 80s can top the contingent of megastars we have today. There's a reason I'm so excited about the NBA now. We have a big three like we had in the 80s. We have an Isiah Thomas figure in Chris Paul. We have a center in Dwight Howard who could become a Ewing or even an Olajuwon (he's still young-- it's not too late)....

Sorry, that's simply :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[necya]

Other than MJ, the other MJ, Bird, and Kareem, today's megastars surpass the stars of the 80s and 90s. Look at Drexler's advanced stats. They compare to Kobe's but Kobe has the rings as the trump card. But, compare him to Wade. Wade's PER crushes Drexler's. Drexler never had a PER higher tha 24.1. Wade has had a higher PER than that all but three years of his career.

And I'll explain to you the difference that is showing up when on the face their "actual stats" seem somewhat more similar. Pace. So LeBron, Wade, Chris Paul-- these guys are doing more on fewer possessions and they are doing it more efficiently.

Only the absolute cream of the 80s can top the contingent of megastars we have today. There's a reason I'm so excited about the NBA now. We have a big three like we had in the 80s. We have an Isiah Thomas figure in Chris Paul. We have a center in Dwight Howard who could become a Ewing or even an Olajuwon (he's still young-- it's not too late)....


first the garnett-allen thing, then the weird trade brown-gasol and now lbj-bosh move. you are exciting by that? that's why the nba doesn't interest me anymore.

oh and congrats for the "howard could become a ewing or even an olajuwon"... you should change of sport.

[chips93]

Sorry, that's simply :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

care to explain why

[Jacks3]

Kobe pretty easily. Epic playoff run.

[Papaya Petee]

Kobe. and I hate Kobe, so that tells you that Kobe was trully better.

[beermonsteroo]

care to explain why

Eastern Conference All-Stars Pos. Player Team Appearance
Coach
HC Phil Jackson Chicago Bulls 1st
Starters
PG Isiah Thomas Detroit Pistons 11th
SG Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls 8th
SF Larry Bird Boston Celtics 12th (DNP)
PF Charles Barkley Philadelphia 76ers 6th
C Patrick Ewing New York Knicks 6th
Reserves
PG Michael Adams Washington Bullets 1st
C Brad Daugherty Cleveland Cavaliers 4th
SG/PG Joe Dumars Detroit Pistons 3rd
SG/SF Reggie Lewis Boston Celtics 1st
SF Scottie Pippen Chicago Bulls 2nd
PG Mark Price Cleveland Cavaliers 2nd
PF Dennis Rodman Detroit Pistons 2nd
SF Dominique Wilkins Atlanta Hawks 7th (DNP)
PF/C Kevin Willis Atlanta Hawks 1st


os. Player Team Appearance
Coach
HC Don Nelson Golden State Warriors 1st
Starters
PG Magic Johnson Los Angeles Lakers 12th
SG Clyde Drexler Portland Trail Blazers 6th
SF Chris Mullin Golden State Warriors 4th
PF Karl Malone Utah Jazz 5th
C David Robinson San Antonio Spurs 3rd
Reserves
PG Tim Hardaway Golden State Warriors 2nd
SG Jeff Hornacek Phoenix Suns 1st
SF/SG Dan Majerle Phoenix Suns 1st
C Dikembe Mutombo Denver Nuggets 1st
C Hakeem Olajuwon Houston Rockets 7th
PG John Stockton Utah Jazz 4th
PF/C Otis Thorpe Houston Rockets 1st
SF James Worthy Los Angeles Lakers 7th



Starters[9]
G Allen IversonDNP 1 Philadelphia 76ers 11th 1,269,568
G Dwyane Wade Miami Heat 6th 2,327,550
F LeBron James Cleveland Cavaliers 6th 2,549,693
F Kevin Garnett Boston Celtics 13th 1,978,116
C Dwight Howard Orlando Magic 4th 2,360,096
Reserves[13]
G Joe Johnson1 Atlanta Hawks 4th

[laronprofit9]

Kobe Bryant 08-09

2009 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Denver Nuggets

34.0 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.8 apg 48%fg 34%3P 93%FT

2009 NBA Finals Kobe Bryant vs Orlando Magic

32.4 ppg 5.6 rpg 7.4 apg 43%fg 36%3P 84%FT

Clyde Drexler 91-92

1992 3rd Round Playoffs Clyde Drexler vs Utah Jazz

23.7 ppg 5.3 rpg 7.7 apg 47%fg 31%3P 80%FT

1992 NBA Finals Clyde Drexler vs Chicago Bulls

24.8 ppg 7.8 rpg 5.3 apg 41%fg 15%3P 89%FT


I pick Kobe, Better Stats for the last 2 rounds of the playoffs. Better Clutch performer, better defender, and won Finals MVP.

[laronprofit9]

Kobe Bryant 08-09

2009 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Denver Nuggets

34.0 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.8 apg 48%fg 34%3P 93%FT

2009 NBA Finals Kobe Bryant vs Orlando Magic

32.4 ppg 5.6 rpg 7.4 apg 43%fg 36%3P 84%FT

Clyde Drexler 91-92

1992 3rd Round Playoffs Clyde Drexler vs Utah Jazz

23.7 ppg 5.3 rpg 7.7 apg 47%fg 31%3P 80%FT

1992 NBA Finals Clyde Drexler vs Chicago Bulls

24.8 ppg 7.8 rpg 5.3 apg 41%fg 15%3P 89%FT


I pick Kobe, Better Stats for the last 2 rounds of the playoffs. Better Clutch performer, better defender, and won Finals MVP.

The Glyde was the man, but Kobe is just a more explosive scorer, and proved in the last 2 rounds of the playoffs he's an excellent playmaker.

Glyde wasn't the killer Kobe was. Only few players in NBA history have that killer-instinct mentality that Kobe has. Glyde didn't have it.

[indiefan24]

Kobe. and I hate Kobe, so that tells you that Kobe was trully better.

No better form of validation when it comes to a Kobe vs "whoever" player argument :D

[Jacks3]

Other than MJ, the other MJ, Bird, and Kareem, today's megastars surpass the stars of the 80s and 90s. Look at Drexler's advanced stats. They compare to Kobe's but Kobe has the rings as the trump card. But, compare him to Wade. Wade's PER crushes Drexler's. Drexler never had a PER higher tha 24.1. Wade has had a higher PER than that all but three years of his career.

Kobe's advanced stats are easily superior, especially in the playoffs. And you realize that the reason Wade puts up those high PER numbers is because of the low pace of his team? Not to mention he dominates the ball in terms of time of possession far more than Drexler did or Kobe does.

[laronprofit9]

Kobe Bryant 08-09

2009 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Denver Nuggets

34.0 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.8 apg 48%fg 34%3P 93%FT

2009 NBA Finals Kobe Bryant vs Orlando Magic

32.4 ppg 5.6 rpg 7.4 apg 43%fg 36%3P 84%FT

Clyde Drexler 91-92

1992 3rd Round Playoffs Clyde Drexler vs Utah Jazz

23.7 ppg 5.3 rpg 7.7 apg 47%fg 31%3P 80%FT

1992 NBA Finals Clyde Drexler vs Chicago Bulls

24.8 ppg 7.8 rpg 5.3 apg 41%fg 15%3P 89%FT


I pick Kobe, Better Stats for the last 2 rounds of the playoffs. Better Clutch performer, better defender, and won Finals MVP.

The Glyde was the man, but Kobe is just a more explosive scorer, and proved in the last 2 rounds of the playoffs he's an excellent playmaker.

Glyde wasn't the killer Kobe was. Only few players in NBA history have that killer-instinct mentality that Kobe has. Glyde didn't have it.

[necya]

Kobe Bryant 08-09

2009 3rd Round Playoffs Kobe Bryant vs Denver Nuggets

34.0 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.8 apg 48%fg 34%3P 93%FT

2009 NBA Finals Kobe Bryant vs Orlando Magic

32.4 ppg 5.6 rpg 7.4 apg 43%fg 36%3P 84%FT

Clyde Drexler 91-92

1992 3rd Round Playoffs Clyde Drexler vs Utah Jazz

23.7 ppg 5.3 rpg 7.7 apg 47%fg 31%3P 80%FT

1992 NBA Finals Clyde Drexler vs Chicago Bulls

24.8 ppg 7.8 rpg 5.3 apg 41%fg 15%3P 89%FT


I pick Kobe, Better Stats for the last 2 rounds of the playoffs. Better Clutch performer, better defender, and won Finals MVP.

The Glyde was the man, but Kobe is just a more explosive scorer, and proved in the last 2 rounds of the playoffs he's an excellent playmaker.

Glyde wasn't the killer Kobe was. Only few players in NBA history have that killer-instinct mentality that Kobe has. Glyde didn't have it.

utah jazz from 92 exterminate the orlando magic and denver nuggets or 2009
in fact, bulls, knicks, cavaliers, jazz, blazers were better than the magic and nuggets of 09

[All Net]

This question might as well be who has better stats as comparing players and what they did in that season it is clear Kobe had the better season.

[Rose]

Kobe by a little bit.

[jrong]

Kobe's advanced stats are easily superior, especially in the playoffs. And you realize that the reason Wade puts up those high PER numbers is because of the low pace of his team? Not to mention he dominates the ball in terms of time of possession far more than Drexler did or Kobe does.

Just a question-- how dense are you? Do you realize the greater Wade is recognized to be, the better Kobe looks in retrospect during the Shaq/Kobe years? If the other star shooting guard Shaq played along side becomes acknowledged as an all-time-great also, then many people will start to look back and think maybe Shaq needed a truly elite player to win. And maybe he needed Kobe just as much as Kobe needed him.

You are so insecure about your hero, and so consumed by your Highlanderesque need to minimize any of his rivals past or present. They're can be only one!? No, they're doesn't have to be only one. You miss the bigger picture. Kobe, LeBron, Wade-- these guys make each other look better because they competed against each other. One day we'll look back and say that 2011 was the first of multiple years when three of the top twenty players ever to pick up a basketball played in the Finals....

[Jacks3]

Just a question-- how dense are you?
Not as dense as you. Your lack of basketball acumen is alarming. Please stop overrating Wade. Thanks.

[Jacks3]

2000 Kobe was easily top 10. That's elite.

[SinJackal]

Clyde's obviously an underrated player who casual, newer NBA fans love to bash for various reasons, but he's not as good as Kobe, even in the years specified. Not as good as Wade either. Clyde is a top 10 SG ever though.

Drexler had some great years in the late 80's/early 90's. He's one of the more overlooked players.



i don't get it.
you thread title asked a question and yet your post content makes it seem that your already made up your mind.

It's an opinion thread. Why shouldn't he give his opinion?

OP making an opinion thread should always put out their opinion first.

[ShaqAttack3234]

How was Kobe easily top 10 in 2000?

Shaq, Duncan, KG, Mourning, Malone, Payton, C-Webb, Iverson, Kidd, Carter and Grant Hill were all at or near prime level. He may have been better than a couple of those players, but not easily better.

[Jacks3]

lol semantics. He was top 10. End of story.

[Jacks3]

We have a center in Dwight Howard who could become a Ewing or even an Olajuwon (he's still young-- it's not too late)....
:roll:

[Jacks3]

I'd take him over Carter, Kidd, and Iverson. It's pretty clear to me that he was a better player. He was the best perimeter defender in the league and averaged 23/5/5 on the other end. That's phenomenal. Plus, the intangibles.

[Papaya Petee]

I'd take him over Carter, Kidd, and Iverson. It's pretty clear to me that he was a better player. He was the best perimeter defender in the league and averaged 23/5/5 on the other end. That's phenomenal. Plus, the intangibles.

Intangibles don't change anything..... No he was not better then Kidd or Iverson lol, maybee Carter, but that's kind of a stretch too.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Would the same people take Drexler over Jordan 96-98, particularly the postseason numbers? 09 Kobe is basically identical, only with fewer shot attempts. Same with 08 or 10 too.

Lame.

[jrong]

Not as dense as you. Your lack of basketball acumen is alarming. Please stop overrating Wade. Thanks.

But see I don't overrate Wade. The difference between a Wade fan and a Kobe or LeBron fan is that you will very rarely find a Wade fan that will claim he's hands-down better than either Kobe or LeBron. The ones that do are almost always the least literate or rational posters.

With a Wade fan, it's simply about respect. You want to say Kobe is better, well, I give him the nod too. And I flip-flop back and forth about LeBron.

But, don't try to make the case that he's not in their stratosphere. Because I will demolish those arguments one-hundred ways to Sunday.

I make Wade's case online because often those who do it, amateur or professional do such a half-assed job of it. The case for Wade to already be considered no less than the 4th best shooting guard ever is so obviously apparent if anyone will just look at the evidence frankly and objectively.

Real stats? Check. Advanced stats? Check. Eye-test (aka watching him play)? Check. Regular season accolades? Check. Playoff/championship dominance? Check.

People have to make up fake reasons to try to limit him. It's Shaq, it's the refs, it's the lack of handchecking, it's the weak era.... Or the most effective technique-- simply ignore him. Ignore what he does night-in and night-out and season-in and season-out and just pretend he's not doing it....

[The_Yearning]

But see I don't overrate Wade. The difference between a Wade fan and a Kobe or LeBron fan is that you will very rarely find a Wade fan that will claim he's hands-down better than either Kobe or LeBron. The ones that do are almost the least literate or rational posters.

With a Wade fan, it's simply about respect. You want to say Kobe is better, well, I give him the nod too. And I flip-flop back and forth about LeBron.

But, don't try to make the case that he's not in their stratosphere. Because I will demolish those arguments one hundred ways to Sunday.

I make Wade's case online because often those who do it, amateur or professional do such a half-assed job of it. The case for Wade to already be considered no less than the 4th best shooting guard ever is so obviously apparent if anyone will just look at the evidence frankly and objectively.

Real stats? Check. Advanced stats? Check. Eye-test (aka watching him play)? Check. Regular season accolades? Check. Playoff/championship dominance? Check.

People have to make up fake reasons to try to limit him. It's Shaq, it's the refs, it's the lack of handchecking, it's the weak era.... Or the most effective technique-- simply ignore what he does night-in and night-out season-in and season-out....

Because he clearly isn't?

[Jacks3]

But, don't try to make the case that he's not in their stratosphere.


Never said that. Not sure why you're going off here. I was simply correcting one of your mistakes in regards to Kobe vs Drexler.

[Jacks3]

Intangibles don't change anything..... No he was not better then Kidd or Iverson lol, maybee Carter, but that's kind of a stretch too.
He was better than all three.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Seriously, somebody post the Playoff Statistics of 2008-10 Kobe Bryant with that of Jordan 96-98, fg% and fga included.

Then tell me with a straight face you're taking Clyde Drexler.

[jrong]

Because he clearly isn't?

My point is that Wade fans are like Wade himself. They just want him to get his due.

[Jacks3]

Kobe was a considerably better scorer on considerably better efficiency. He was also a much better shooter and a better defender. He was also a much better shot-blocker and a better offensive rebounder. Overall, Kobe>Kidd.

[KenneBell]

Kobe was not better than Kidd in 2000. Just give it up. By the next year, yes.

[Jacks3]

Just because he wasn't as good as the 01 version doesn't mean he wasn't elite.

[Jacks3]

Kobe was not better than Kidd in 2000.
Kobe was a considerably better scorer on considerably better efficiency. He was also a much better shooter and a better defender. He was also a much better shot-blocker and a better offensive rebounder. And he was much,much better at taking care of the ball. He also destroys him in all advanced stats. You're underrating 2000 Kobe. You obviously don't understand how great he was even then.

[Papaya Petee]

He was better than all three.

Your opinion, but not until 2001 he wasn't in most poster's opinions.

[Jacks3]

Your opinion, but not until 2001 he wasn't in most poster's opinions.
Most posters are idiots. He was better if you take into account all areas of the game.

[ShaqAttack3234]

:oldlol: at Jacks3 using advanced stats to rank Kobe over Kidd in 2000. Well, according to advanced stats, Kobe wasn't top 10 either. For the record, I think these stats are asinine and would NEVER use them as part of my argument, just showing the double standard involved with Jacks3 using them when it's convenient.

PER
1.Shaq- 30.6
2.Karl Malone- 27.1
3.Alonzo Mourning- 25.8
4.Tim Duncan- 24.8
5.David Robinson- 24.6
6.Grant Hill- 24.5
7.Kevin Garnett- 23.6
8.Gary Payton- 23.6
9.Chris Webber- 23.4
10.Vince Carter- 23.4
11.John Stockton- 22.4
12.Kobe- 21.7

Win Shares
1.Shaq- 18.6
2.Karl Malone- 15.3
3.Gary Payton- 13.9
4.Tim Duncan- 13
5.Alonzo Mourning- 12.9
6.David Robinson- 12.7
7.Vince Carter- 11.8
8.Kevin Garnett- 11.6
9.John Stockton- 11.2
10.Chris Webber- 10.7
11.Grant Hill- 10.7
12.Kobe- 10.6

Ok, so according to advanced stats, Kobe is the 12th best player in the league.

[Papaya Petee]

Most posters are idiots. He was better if you take into account all areas of the game.
If you take all-areas of the game, then Kobe wasn't nowhere near as good as Kidd.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe pretty easily. Epic playoff run.

Drexler was averaging 27+/7.5/7.5/49% in the postseason until he met the Bulls and encountered two of the best perimeter defenders ever at their peaks. 27+/7.5/7.5/49% is pretty epic itself. Just saying.

[Jacks3]

Drexler was averaging 27+/7.5/7.5/49% in the postseason until he met the Bulls and encountered two of the best perimeter defenders ever at their peaks. 27+/7.5/7.5/49% is pretty epic itself. Just saying.
Not as epic as Kobe. Just saying.

[Jacks3]

:oldlol: at Jacks3 using advanced stats to rank Kobe over Kidd in 2000. .
lol @ this pathetic straw-man. Dude just took a small part of my post and made it seem as if that was my entire argument. Pathetic. Even if you ignore advanced stats, Kobe is still better. Kobe was a considerably better scorer on considerably better efficiency. He was also a much better shooter and a better defender. He was also a much better shot-blocker and a better offensive re-bounder. And he was much,much better at taking care of the ball. Oh, and those stats don't have Kobe in the top 10 either. :roll:

[Jacks3]

If you take all-areas of the game, then Kobe wasn't nowhere near as good as Kidd.
Are you retarded? Kidd is a better passer, defensive re-bounder. Kobe is better at damn near everything else--scoring, defending, shooting, offensive rebounding, shot-blocking, skill-set, clutch play.

[Fatal9]

Drexler continues to be overrated. Guy is very fortunate he played on the fast break Blazers as I doubt he would ever break 25 ppg in the current era/pace. Watch any of his 40 point games, 50+% of the points are in transition (and Blazers were always near the top of the league in pace). His half court game can't hold a candle to Kobe, Wade etc. Great and deceptive passer because he could look awkward at times due to his handle, but still not a better playmaker to me than KB/Wade. I remember during the '92 finals, MJ played good defense but Drexler shut himself down as the Bulls slowed down the game and he was forced to start creating on the perimeter by himself. Gets way too much credit for Blazers success that season, it was the shooting of Terry Porter that got them in the finals (he destroyed Stockton), and those Blazer teams were as much about Porter as they were about Drexler. Lack of an alpha dog on the team always used to hurt them down the stretch of games.

Here's a 48 point game by him...I think 30+ were in transition, when do you ever see that now? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAXWuBe-298. It's the same thing with basically every big scoring game I've seen from him in the late 80s/early 90s.

Love watching him play because of what a beast he was in the open court but dude is insanely overrated.

[Disaprine]

...
kobe had the better season. even if your only talking about stats its still kobe.

[PHILA]

Other than MJ, the other MJ, Bird, and Kareem, today's megastars surpass the stars of the 80s and 90s.
You have neglected two iron blue collar workers who came to play every night. :applause:


http://i37.tinypic.com/348sioj.jpg

[DatWasNashty]

Drexler continues to be overrated. Guy is very fortunate he played on the fast break Blazers as I doubt he would ever break 25 ppg in the current era/pace. Watch any of his 40 point games, 50+% of the points are in transition (and Blazers were always near the top of the league in pace). His half court game can't hold a candle to Kobe, Wade etc. Great and deceptive passer because he could look awkward at times due to his handle, but still not a better playmaker to me than KB/Wade. I remember during the '92 finals, MJ played good defense but Drexler shut himself down as the Bulls slowed down the game and he was forced to start creating on the perimeter by himself. Gets way too much credit for Blazers success that season, it was the shooting of Terry Porter that got them in the finals (he destroyed Stockton), and those Blazer teams were as much about Porter as they were about Drexler. Lack of an alpha dog on the team always used to hurt them down the stretch of games.

Here's a 48 point game by him...I think 30+ were in transition, when do you ever see that now? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAXWuBe-298. It's the same thing with basically every big scoring game I've seen from him in the late 80s/early 90s.

Love watching him play because of what a beast he was in the open court but dude is insanely overrated.

I agree with the premises of this post. I remember the '91 WCF where the Blazers were expected to win because they were more talented, better at the running game than the Lakers due to youth and athleticism but they choked (game 1 and game 6) and couldn't be very effective in the halfcourt. The Lakers slowed it down and Magic had his way with Drexler. Although, Drexler guarded him pretty well, Magic in the first few games picked the double teams apart with his passing and when they played him straight, he gave them a series of skyhooks and babyhooks. Glide couldn't handle him in the post. On offense, though? Drexler was taken out of the game by James Worthy. And I know this will probably suprise some people but Worthy guarded him almost as well as MJ did in the finals. Glide's stats were 20.5 ppg/7 apg on 45% shooting along with 3.7 to/game. I'd say about 20% of his points came in transition or on switches with Scott on him. Worthy was a pretty underrated defender, though. He could guard various positions, had good feet and he shut down one of the best offensive players in the game in Chris Mullin right before that Blazer series. Mullin gave Magic 41 in game 2 (didn't play in game 1 due to injury) but Worthy played smothering defense on him in games 3 and 4 and took him out of the game.

Anyway, I pick Kobe because he's a better scorer and playmaker. Defense is pretty close (still Kobe) despite the plethora of all defensive selections Kobe has and Clyde was always an underrated defender. He actually shut down MJ in this game from '96. Drexler is better in the open court due to the edge in athleticism but Kobe has a pretty big edge in the halfcourt due to his superior jumper and playmaking. Note that playmaking and passing are two different things. Drexler was a better passer but not as good of a playmaker because he doesn't draw as much attention as Bryant.

[ShaqAttack3234]

lol @ this pathetic straw-man. Dude just took a small part of my post and made it seem as if that was my entire argument. Pathetic. Even if you ignore advanced stats, Kobe is still better. Kobe was a considerably better scorer on considerably better efficiency. He was also a much better shooter and a better defender. He was also a much better shot-blocker and a better offensive re-bounder. And he was much,much better at taking care of the ball. Oh, and those stats don't have Kobe in the top 10 either. :roll:

Kidd was far ahead in terms of passing, making his teammates better, basketball IQ and leadership.

The points you make for Kobe over Kidd that year would also apply to Eddie Jones over Kidd.

And admit it, advanced stats are garbage. We know damn well that Robinson was not a top 5 palyer in 2000(despite being underrated that year) and we both know damn well that Stockton wasn't better than Kobe by that point.

[Jacks3]

Kidd was far ahead in terms of passing, making his teammates better, basketball IQ and leadership.
lol. The last two are nothing but your own subjective thought. I've already said Kidd was the better passer.

The points you make for Kobe over Kidd that year would also apply to Eddie Jones over Kidd.

Whatever dude. Your anti-Kobe bias is showing. You're crazy if you think Kobe doesn't have a great case to be over Kidd. Kobe is better at damn near everything else--scoring, defending, shooting, offensive rebounding, shot-blocking, skill-set, clutch play.

And admit it, advanced stats are garbage. We know damn well that Robinson was not a top 5 palyer in 2000(despite being underrated that year) and we both know damn well that Stockton wasn't better than Kobe by that point.
They're not garbage. You have no nuance, no subtlety. How much times do I have to tell you that just 1.) The advanced stats you cited are just one of many 2.) They're a useful tool to be used as a measuring point along with volume stats and observation. Nobody is saying they're perfect.

[ShaqAttack3234]

lol. The last two are nothing but your own subjective thought. I've already said Kidd was the better passer.

Did you watch the NBA in 2000? One of the constant criticisms of Kobe was decision making.


Whatever dude. Your anti-Kobe bias is showing. You're crazy if you think Kobe doesn't have a great case to be over Kidd. Kobe is better at damn near everything else--scoring, defending, shooting, offensive rebounding, shot-blocking, skill-set, clutch play.

Right, I have an anti-Kobe bias. :roll: I have him ranked 8th or 9th all time, I've said many times that his supporting cast gets overrated, I ranked him as the best player in the league from '06-'08 and I called him the 2nd best player in the entire 2001 playoffs. What more do Kobe groupies want? I'd say I rank him quite fairly.

Again, Eddie Jones was also a better defender than Kidd, a better scorer, shot blocker, shooter, had more steals(led the league)....doesn't make him better than Kidd.


They're not garbage. You have no nuance, no subtlety. How much times do I have to tell you that just 1.) The advanced stats you cited are just one of many 2.) They're a useful tool to be used as a measuring point along with volume stats and observation. Nobody is saying they're perfect.

The only advanced stats you need are TS%, eFG% and TRB%. Other than that, just watch the games and use the basic boxscore stats. Those things should be more than enough to evaluate a player.

[Jacks3]

Did you watch the NBA in 2000? One of the constant criticisms of Kobe was decision making.

Not really.


Right, I have an anti-Kobe bias. :roll: I have him ranked 8th or 9th all time, I've said many times that his supporting cast gets overrated, I ranked him as the best player in the league from '06-'08 and I called him the 2nd best player in the entire 2001 playoffs. What more do Kobe groupies want? I'd say I rank him quite fairly.
No, you don't. You're a Shaq groupie. Of course you don't.

Again, Eddie Jones was also a better defender than Kidd, a better scorer, shot blocker, shooter, had more steals(led the league)....doesn't make him better than Kidd.

Eddie Jones isn't Kobe. Weak argument. Can't answer so you resort to attacking in a different direction. Kobe is better at damn near everything else--scoring, defending, shooting, offensive rebounding, shot-blocking, skill-set, clutch play. Better stats, too. Kobe is better. Face it.


The only advanced stats you need are TS%, eFG% and TRB%. Other than that, just watch the games and use the basic boxscore stats. Those things should be more than enough to evaluate a player.
Wrong. You need all advanced stats, volume stats, and observation. That's how you judge a player.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Not really.

As in you didn't really watch the NBA in 2000?


No, you don't. You're a Shaq groupie. Of course you don't.

:oldlol: Lets see, the vast majority of my posts and threads aren't about Shaq, can you say the same about Kobe?

Now, tell me how I'm underrating Kobe.


Eddie Jones isn't Kobe. Weak argument. Can't answer so you resort to attacking in a different direction. Kobe is better at damn near everything else--scoring, defending, shooting, offensive rebounding, shot-blocking, skill-set, clutch play. Better stats, too. Kobe is better. Face it.

You're way too dense to understand my point. The things you alluded to Kobe being better at, Eddie Jones was also better than Kidd at.


Wrong. You need all advanced stats, volume stats, and observation. That's how you judge a player.

:roll:

[Jacks3]

As in you didn't really watch the NBA in 2000?
I did. It's become abundantly clear that you did not, however.



:oldlol: Lets see, the vast majority of my posts and threads aren't about Shaq, can you say the same about Kobe?
Yes, they are.

Now, tell me how I'm underrating Kobe.

He was clearly top 10 in 00. You're just downplaying him to prop up Shaq. Sad.


You're way too dense to understand my point. The things you alluded to Kobe being better at, Eddie Jones was also better than Kidd at.
LMAO. I understand your point perfectly here. If you can't see the logical fallacy here, you're stupider than I thought, and that's saying something. Kobe>Kidd.




:roll:
Typical. You know I'm correct. You probably can't even grasp the formulas for half the advanced stats out there. :oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

I did. It's become abundantly clear that you did not, however.

:roll:


Yes, they are.

False, like 99% of your posts. I almost never create Shaq threads and the vast majority of my posts are not about him and out of all of the games I've uploaded on youtube, just 2 feature Shaq and one of them was a request. If not for my username, I'd never be accused of being a Shaq homer.


He was clearly top 10 in 00. You're just downplaying him to prop up Shaq. Sad.

Yet I rank Kobe as the second best player in the entire 2001 playoffs and maybe the 2002 playoffs? But yeah, I just downplay Kobe to prop up Shaq. :rolleyes:


LMAO. I understand your point perfectly here. If you can't see the logical fallacy here, you're stupider than I thought, and that's saying something. Kobe>Kidd.

All-NBA 1st team and MVP voting disagree.


Typical. You know I'm correct. You probably can't even grasp the formulas for half the advanced stats out there. :oldlol:

:roll:

[Jacks3]

.

:roll:

Truth hurts,huh? :oldlol:


False, like 99% of your posts. I almost never create Shaq threads and the vast majority of my posts are not about him and out of all of the games I've uploaded on youtube, just 2 feature Shaq and one of them was a request. If not for my username, I'd never be accused of being a Shaq homer.
Please stop lying, thanks.



Yet I rank Kobe as the second best player in the entire 2001 playoffs and maybe the 2002 playoffs? But yeah, I just downplay Kobe to prop up Shaq. :rolleyes:

You clearly are here.



All-NBA 1st team and MVP voting disagree.


:roll: Those are not absolute measurements of who the better player is. I guess 06 Nash>06 LeBron. He won the MVP!:roll: Face it, Kobe was the better player and easily among the 10 best in basketball.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Well, this dumb kid Jacks is going back on my ignore list. Not wasting any more time with idiots like that.

[Jacks3]

Well, this dumb kid Jacks is going back on my ignore list. Not wasting any more time with idiots like that.
lol @ this piece of shit. Dude just can't get Shaq's **** out of his mouth. Downplaying the guy who helped Shaq get 3 rings? Sad. :oldlol:

[KenneBell]

:oldlol:

This thread went from bad to horrible.

[TheLogo]

lol @ this thread.

I will play.....Kobe for sure.

[Bring-Your-Js]

It really isn't a question. Kobe's playoff numbers 2008-10 are nearly identical to Jordan's 1996-98 run.

How many people would take Drexler over any Jordan season 1986-98? Nobody.

Silly.

[EarlTheGoat]

Kobe was a considerably better scorer on considerably better efficiency. He was also a much better shooter and a better defender. He was also a much better shot-blocker and a better offensive rebounder. Overall, Kobe>Kidd.

Kobe in 1999/2000 was not better than Kidd that same season. Much better shooter? well yes, considering Bryant is a high volume shooter who`s main goal and function is scoring I think its normal to score more and better than a point-guard. Jason Kidd was never a scorer, he is and was an old school point-guard, prime Kidd could score also, but this was never the strongest point of his game.

Kidd was a much more better passer and leader than Kobe Bryant was. Ive stated many times that Bryant in 2001 and 2002 was more than a second option, but no way in hell he was in 2000, he was a solid second option that year, but not much more than that. Jason Kidd was already a franchise key star player. His passing hability and capacity to involve his teammates and set up plays was incredible, he really started peaking in 1998, I think his absolute prime was from 2000 to 2004/2005. Bryant was going to enter his prime the next season. Comparing 2001 Bryant with 2000 Kidd would be closer.

And I dont see Kobe being the much more better defender, equals at least. The impact Kidd had guarding opposing point-guards was perhaps bigger than the impact Kobe had guarding opposing shooting-guards. Rebounding? He was averaging more rebounds than Kobe, at an incredible 6.7 for a point-guard. Better offensive rebounder is a flawed argument, doesnt matter if you take 1 more offensive rebound per game if you are averaging less rebounds overall.

The only thing Kobe had on Kidd that season (and always) was shooting and consequently scoring.

[TheLogo]

Kobe in 1999/2000 was not better than Kidd that same season. Much better shooter? well yes, considering Bryant is a high volume shooter who`s main goal and function is scoring I think its normal to score more and better than a point-guard. Jason Kidd was never a scorer, he is and was an old school point-guard, prime Kidd could score also, but this was never the strongest point of his game.

Kidd was a much more better passer and leader than Kobe Bryant was. Ive stated many times that Bryant in 2001 and 2002 was more than a second option, but no way in hell he was in 2000, he was a solid second option that year, but not much more than that. Jason Kidd was already a franchise key star player. His passing hability and capacity to involve his teammates and set up plays was incredible, he really started peaking in 1998, I think his absolute prime was from 2000 to 2004/2005. Bryant was going to enter his prime the next season. Comparing 2001 Bryant with 2000 Kidd would be closer.

And I dont see Kobe being the much more better defender, equals at least. The impact Kidd had guarding opposing point-guards was perhaps bigger than the impact Kobe had guarding opposing shooting-guards. Rebounding? He was averaging more rebounds than Kobe, at an incredible 6.7 for a point-guard. Better offensive rebounder is a flawed argument, doesnt matter if you take 1 more offensive rebound per game if you are averaging less rebounds overall.

The only thing Kobe had on Kidd that season (and always) was shooting and consequently scoring.

Cool story but Kobe was better than Kidd.

I hate to bring up FG% but Kidd shot 40% that year and has always been a horrible shooter.

[EarlTheGoat]

Cool story but Kobe was better than Kidd.

I hate to bring up FG% but Kidd shot 40% that year and has always been a horrible shooter.

You`re Kobe dickriding kinda reminds of two guys kissing each other.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5860/shiti.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/shiti.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[TheLogo]

You`re Kobe dickriding kinda reminds of two guys kissing each other.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5860/shiti.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/shiti.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

I bring a stat to back me up.........

you bring pictures of what you did at a club......

me over you.

TheLogo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you.

:facepalm

[EarlTheGoat]

I bring a stat to back me up.........

you bring pictures of what you did at a club......

me over you.

TheLogo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you.

:facepalm

You mad.

:oldlol:

[TheLogo]

You mad.

:oldlol:

:sleeping

yawn.

[Lakerlove420]

Although, Drexler guarded him pretty well, Magic in the first few games picked the double teams apart with his passing and when they played him straight, he gave them a series of skyhooks and babyhooks. Glide couldn't handle him in the post. On offense, though? Drexler was taken out of the game by James Worthy. And I know this will probably suprise some people but Worthy guarded him almost as well as MJ did in the finals. Glide's stats were 20.5 ppg/7 apg on 45% shooting along with 3.7 to/game. I'd say about 20% of his points came in transition or on switches with Scott on him. Worthy was a pretty underrated defender, though. He could guard various positions, had good feet and he shut down one of the best offensive players in the game in Chris Mullin right before that Blazer series. Mullin gave Magic 41 in game 2 (didn't play in game 1 due to injury) but Worthy played smothering defense on him in games 3 and 4 and took him out of the game.

James Worthy is one of my favorite players of all time

[gts]

Which player would you choose for your team?

Regular season stats:

Kobe (age 30)


26.3 PPG 4.9 APG 5.2 PPG 1.5 SPG 0. 5 BPG 2.6 TPG 467% FG 351% 3P


Clyde age (29/30)

25.0 PPG 6.7 APG 6.6 RPG 1.8 SPG 0.8 BPG 3.2 TPG 47% FG 337% 3P

Playoffs

Kobe

30.2 PPG 5. 6 APG 5.7 RPG 457% FG 34% 3P

Clyde

26.3 PPG 7.4 APG 7.0 RPG 466% FG 23% 3P

So Kobe scored a little bit more then Clyde, but Clyde had a slightly better FG%. Kobe is probably the better shooter at the time ( see 3P%) but Clyde certainly was much more athlethic and hence got more easy points. Don't forget that the rules were a lot harder for SG back then.

Clyde certainly was a better playmaker then Kobe which the APG show pretty clearly too.
In rebounding Clyde was doubtlessly superior to Kobe.
This is not only true for those particular years, but for their careers as a whole. Clyde most defintely was better in passing and rebounding.

Clyde also has the advantage in steals and blocks over Kobe. Not only becuase of his superor athlethics, Clyde in 92 was a better defender then Kobe in 08. not really debatable.

So all in all the numbers quiet clearly favor Clyde and i think when you actually watch the games most people would agree that Clyde wins this one.

Another reason why i would pick Clyde of course is his more sepctular way of playing.:D
Clyde in 92 was still a real highflyer and "Air Jordan" type of Player. Kobe in 08 was already more like a "Floor Jordan" type of player. Settling more for jumoers then driving to the hoop.



drexler averaged 19.9 ppg in the regular season and 19 ppg in the playoffs
when he was 30

[beermonsteroo]

drexler averaged 19.9 ppg in the regular season and 19 ppg in the playoffs
when he was 30

He was turning 30 a few days after the last playoff game.

[gts]

He was turning 30 a few days after the last playoff game.both have summertime after the season birthdays, kobe turns 30 after the playoffs too, so lets use that season if that's what you want

28.3reg season 30.1 in the playoffs
either way you tried to twist the facts to suit your agenda

fact is when kobe was 29 he had a better season and when he was 30 he had a better season

fail

[Calabis]

You're comparing apples with oranges; what does comparing two teams from different eras prove? I did some research and found out that in 92' two teams per game averaged almost ten more possessions then teams in 2010 did.

One of the main reasons the pace has slowed visibly in the last half decade is primarily because of zone defense; that is why Stern was hesitant to institute this rule to begin with.

Sorry dude 2004 rule changes far greater than blaming teams for being more efficient and not AND 1 dribbling the shot clock to 5 seconds

Excerpts from "Look, no hands" Article from 2006: In the late 1980s, an emerging superstar forced Ron Rothstein, then a Pistons assistant coach, to plot. The upshot of those strategy sessions came to be known as the Jordan Rules. For at least a few seasons, bumping, shoving and rerouting Michael Jordan was enough to make the Pistons a championship team.

Now, nearly two decades later, amid a wildly different defensive climate in the NBA, Rothstein is asked whether those rules still can be applied. He smiles. "It's harder," he says. "It's harder because you don't get the advantage of gaining balance." Or touching. Or having a fighting chance.


Entering the week, there had been 31 instances this season in which a player had attempted 20 free throws in a game, almost all involving perimeter players. Last season, there were 22 such instances. Two years ago, there were only 11. The top five players in free throw attempts this season are all perimeter players. Last season, only two of the top five were wing players

Though team scoring is holding steady, all those trips to the line have resulted in higher averages for players at the top of the scoring charts. For the first time in 24 seasons, three players--Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson and LeBron James--are likely to average more than 30.0 points for the season. Two years ago, there wasn't a single 30-point scorer. Entering the week, there had been 95 performances of 40 points or more, compared with 67 last season and 41 two seasons ago.

Prolific painters

Scoring inside no longer is only a post player's domain. Four of the league's top 10 points-in-the-paint producers are players who set up out on the perimeter.

Dwyane Wade, Heat

PPG: 27.6. In the paint: 12.7.

LeBron James, Cavaliers

PPG: 31.2: In paint: 12.4.

Allen Iverson, 76ers

PPG: 32.9. In the paint: 12.3.

Tony Parker, Spurs

PPG: 19.1.

In the paint: 11.3

Also reference you BS claim to pace factor as the only cause....maybe you should account for offensive rebounding, decline in mid range effiency, more 3's being shot today and back in the day better bigs and post players

Article right before 2004 rule changes by Dave Hollinger SI.Com:

While a slower pace is the main culprit in lower scores, that doesn't let offenses off the hook. Regardless of the speed with which the game is played, teams have become less efficient on the offensive end. In fact, even after we adjust for the fewer number of possessions teams use, there's still a 4.1 points-per-game difference that results from teams getting less out of each trip down the floor. This is noteworthy since the increased use of the 3-pointer should have produced the opposite effect.

But those gains are exactly offset by a decline in offensive rebounding. In '84-85, offenses grabbed the board on 32.9 percent of missed shots, but by '03-04 that had declined to 28.7 percent. That difference has cost offenses 2.0 points per game, and it probably results from 3-point shooters being spaced too far away from the basket to have a prayer of getting an offensive board.

Declining shooting. Since '84-85, field-goal percentages have sunk roughly in proportion to Billy Squier's albums sales, from 49.1 percent to 43.9 percent last season. Sharp minds in the audience will quickly note that the 3-pointer is a much more prevalent part of modern offenses (teams try more than five times as many as they did two decades ago), so we should expect field-goal percentages to be lower in return for the greater payoff. Yet even allowing for the rise of the 3-pointer, shooting is still in the dumpster. Teams averaged 0.99 points for each field-goal attempt in 1984-85, but just 0.94 last season. That five-hundreths of a percentage point difference is enough to subtract 2.9 points a game from offenses

That goes to underscore that the 3-pointer has, on balance, not had much of an effect. On the one hand, players shoot the long bomb much more accurately than twenty years ago -- improving from 28.1 percent to 34.7 percent -- which has added 1.9 points per game to scoring.

But there's a hidden cost to all of those 3s. Because they're bombing away instead of going to the rim, teams are getting to the line much less often. Teams took 0.33 free-throws per field-goal attempt back then, but only 0.30 last season, a change that cost teams about 1.7 points a game -- giving back nearly all of the difference from the increase in 3-point accuracy.


First, pace is a much bigger factor than the decline in offensive efficiency. Second, the main cause of the dip in efficiency is the sharp drop in 2-point field-goal percentage.

[glidedrxlr22]

James Worthy is one of my favorite players of all time

Wow!? Really?....along with Jerry West, Kareem, Byron Scott, A.C. Green, Eddie Jones, Michael Cooper, Magic Johnson....right?

[chazzy]

Lol @ "Glided dont h8 the laker h8r from laker no 3peatville" calling other people biased

[glidedrxlr22]

The difference between me and others is that I don

[Lakerlove420]

Wow!? Really?....along with Jerry West, Kareem, Byron Scott, A.C. Green, Eddie Jones, Michael Cooper, Magic Johnson....right?

no.
not West, wasn't around for that. but I do respect him.
Byron, Green, & Coop I respect and love
but I can't say they are among of my favorites.

when I say favorites I'm talking my FAVORITE players.
there can only be 3 or 4 players. Just because they're Lakers it
doesn't mean they are automatically my favorites like you are implying.
Therefore your implications are incorrect.
Even though most on my list are Lakers it
doesn't mean that any and every Laker is a favorite.
got it . . .

I'll just list them so your not confused anymore ..

1) Magic Johnson
2) Michael Jordan
3) Kobe Bryant
4) Big Game James Worthy
5) John Stockton (was always a one of my favs to watch)

I like and respect Kareem (of course),
a couple players playing right now also like
Carmelo Anthony & Derrick Rose & Fisher & Pau
I love all those guys.
But when I say my favorite player(s) I'm only talking about 3,4, or 5 guys
most of them retired ..
.... so get off me ...

[Papaya Petee]

Are you retarded? Kidd is a better passer, defensive re-bounder. Kobe is better at damn near everything else--scoring, defending, shooting, offensive rebounding, shot-blocking, skill-set, clutch play.
Kidd was a better passer, rebounder, leader, defender and was actually the number 1 option.
He's better at skill-set? Awesome!!

[Lakerlove420]

[QUOTE=glidedrxlr22]The difference between me and others is that I don

[Disaprine]

Wow!? Really?....along with Jerry West, Kareem, Byron Scott, A.C. Green, Eddie Jones, Michael Cooper, Magic Johnson....right?
don't hate.........appreciate

[Jacks3]

Kidd was a better passer, rebounder, leader, defender and was actually the number 1 option.
He's better at skill-set? Awesome!!
Kobe is a better offensive re-bounder, which are more than valuable defensive rebounds. lol @ Kidd being a better defender.:oldlol: Kobe is better at damn near everything else--scoring, defending, shooting, offensive rebounding, shot-blocking, skill-set, clutch play. Better stats, too. Kobe is better. Face it.

[EarlTheGoat]

Kobe is a better offensive re-bounder, which are more than valuable defensive rebounds. lol @ Kidd being a better defender.:oldlol: Kobe is better at damn near everything else--scoring, defending, shooting, offensive rebounding, shot-blocking, skill-set, clutch play. Better stats, too. Kobe is better. Face it.

Are you open for debate or just wanting people to blindly agree with you?

[Jacks3]

There is no debate. Kobe is clearly better.

[EarlTheGoat]

There is no debate. Kobe is clearly better.

Alright, you just want people to blindly agree with you.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe is a better offensive re-bounder, which are more than valuable defensive rebounds.

Oh, so NOW offensive boards are the be-all, end-all determinant of rebounding ability huh? Nice consistency there. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Oh, so NOW offensive boards are the be-all, end-all determinant of rebounding ability huh? Nice consistency there. :oldlol:
Wow you're dense. I never said it was. I said he was the better offensive re-bounder. I never said he was the better re-bounder overall. That's clearly Kidd...and I, unlike you, won't try to come up with a billion excuses to draw away or negate Kidd's advantages. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Alright, you just want people to blindly agree with you.
Blindly? Intelligent people will agree that Kobe was the superior player.

[EarlTheGoat]

Blindly? Intelligent people will agree that Kobe was the superior player.

Not really, only biased dickriders like you.

[Jacks3]

Not really, only biased dickriders like you.
lol @ this pathetic, Kobe-hating clown. Kobe>Kidd. Deal with it. Stop crying, kid.

[EarlTheGoat]

lol @ this pathetic, Kobe-hating clown. Kobe>Kidd. Deal with it. Stop crying, kid.

There`s not enough kobe **** for everybody. How do you manage to share it with TheLogo and griffmoney?

[Jacks3]

There`s not enough kobe **** for everybody. How do you manage to share it with TheLogo and griffmoney?
yup u mad. :mad:

[EarlTheGoat]

yup u mad. :mad:

Id say the opposite.

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

damn u still mad. :mad:

[EarlTheGoat]

damn u still mad. :mad:
Id say the opposite.

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

still mad. :mad:

[EarlTheGoat]

still mad. :mad:

Id still say the opposite.

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

damn u mad. :mad:

[EarlTheGoat]

damn u mad. :mad:

damn, id say the opposite.

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

oh u mad.:mad:

[EarlTheGoat]

oh u mad.:mad:

oh id say the opposite

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

u mad.:mad:

[EarlTheGoat]

u mad.:mad:

id say the opposite.

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

u mad. :mad:

[EarlTheGoat]

u mad. :mad:

id say the opposite.

:oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

:facepalm

at the previous page.

[EarlTheGoat]

:facepalm

at the previous page.

:lol

[Jacks3]

yup u mad. :mad:

[KenneBell]

Page 10 needs to be archived. Amazing. :roll: :bowdown: