The difference in big men between LA & MIA isn't as astronomical as people think [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 05:48 PM

Come on now, all I hear on these forums is about how the Heat aren't a legit threat because they have no front court. First of all, let me say that it doesn't matter much since the Heat have the two best players of their generation, so it's not that big of a deal. Second of all, it isn't like the Heat have a bad frontcourt. Chris Bosh is a proven 20/10 player in the NBA who is also a legit 6'11, and people are acting like he's a scrub. He's easily one of the top 4 PF's in the NBA. At center, Joel Anthony is a GREAT defender. Think of him as a Birdman sort of player, he is everywhere on the court and swats shots like crazy. Not a bad man defender either.

Let's say they get to the finals and play LA. People are acting like LA completely owns Miami because of their frontcourt. Think again;

Yes, Pau is better than Bosh. But THAT better? Nah. Bosh is All-Star starter sort of talent, and so is Pau. They're both great. I don't think Pau is going to handle Bosh or anything CLOSE, like some people are saying.

Bynum? Come on, dude. He isn't this franchise sort of player people are making him out to be. He's a decent starting C. Will put up 15/10, on a good night. This is assuming he is healthy, which is uncommon for him. Do you really think his 15/10 against Joel Anthony's 7/5 (about what he will average this coming year) is going to win the series for the Lakers? No. Then, I hear about how Lamar Odom is going to terrorize the Heat off the bench. Udonis Haslem is a way better defender than Lamar Odom, and hits a more consistent shot, and will overall help his team just as much if not more than Lamar Odom.

There is a thread talking about what teams you are scared of, and people are very reluctantly putting the Heat. I even saw a Bulls fan say the Bulls are better because Boozer + Noah > Bosh + Anthony. Are you kidding me?

This is getting out of hand. I'm not trying to be a Heat homer, but I think predictions like the ones SVG and JVG are making are much more realistic than predictions like the ones some of these fans on here are making, like the Heat not standing a chance against Orlando, Boston, and LA.

Anyone agree?

Kblaze8855

08-30-2010, 05:50 PM

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 05:51 PM

NuggetsFan

08-30-2010, 05:52 PM

Size\length is a pretty big advantage upfront. Lakers with Pau\Bynum\Odom have that advantage upfront. If Bynum is 100% healthy? I'd say the Lakers have a pretty big advantage in the frontcourt. Bynum can never stay healthy tho. If I was the Lakers I'd try to beat the Heat just dumping the ball inside. Guys like Bosh\Big Z are terrible defenders. Gasol\Bynum have a pretty big size advantage on Haslem. That leaves them Joel Anthony.

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 05:56 PM

I expected to come in here and read someone explaining how the Lakers are actually as good as orbetter than the heat.

Ive not heard much saying either of them is a mile beyond the other. I think if the Lakers beat them in the finals people will suddenly act like it was a huge upset though for the sake of hating.

Most threads involving the Heat vs Lakers, there are a few Lakers fans that say the Lakers front-court is way too strong and they aren't afraid of the Heat at all because of it.

Samurai Swoosh

08-30-2010, 05:56 PM

Scoooter

08-30-2010, 05:59 PM

Chris Bosh isn't really 6'11". Maybe 6'10". And it's mostly neck. If he had a regular human neck he'd be, like, 6'7", tops.

Droid101

08-30-2010, 06:00 PM

Yep. The Lakers front-court is wildly overrated especially Bynum and Odom. I'm sure the Heat are sure shaking in their boots at the idea of Odom's monster 11/10 averages, or Bynum's dominant 9/7.:oldlol:
In what ****ing universe does Andrew Bynum average 9 and 7? For his CAREER he's 10 and 7... and last season he was 15/8 on 57% shooting, half of that time spent hobbling around on a bum knee.

IF (big if here) he's healthy, he's going to be 15/11 on 60% shooting (remember his pre-injury numbers in 08?) at the very least. This is as the 3rd/4th option.

I'm not making a prediction here (becuase it's pointless), but you ****ing Heat fans who keep throwing out 9/7 are starting to irk me.

Doranku

08-30-2010, 06:02 PM

In what ****ing universe does Andrew Bynum average 9 and 7? For his CAREER he's 10 and 7... and last season he was 15/8 on 57% shooting, half of that time spent hobbling around on a bum knee.

IF (big if here) he's healthy, he's going to be 15/11 on 60% shooting (remember his pre-injury numbers in 08?) at the very least. This is as the 3rd/4th option.

I'm not making a prediction here (becuase it's pointless), but you ****ing Heat fans who keep throwing out 9/7 are starting to irk me.

He's a Laker fan, and 9/7 is what he averaged during last years Championship run.

Samurai Swoosh

08-30-2010, 06:04 PM

He's a Laker fan, and 9/7 is what he averaged during last years Championship run.
He averaged similar almost non existent numbers during this year's Finals run as well. Lakers have won back to back CHIPS without him basically.

All Net

08-30-2010, 06:05 PM

In what ****ing universe does Andrew Bynum average 9 and 7? For his CAREER he's 10 and 7... and last season he was 15/8 on 57% shooting, half of that time spent hobbling around on a bum knee.

IF (big if here) he's healthy, he's going to be 15/11 on 60% shooting (remember his pre-injury numbers in 08?) at the very least. This is as the 3rd/4th option.

I'm not making a prediction here (becuase it's pointless), but you ****ing Heat fans who keep throwing out 9/7 are starting to irk me.

It's what he averaged in the playoffs basically, on one leg. Everybody knows a healthy Bynum can give you a good 17 and 10 on any night. Hell he averaged 20 and 10 when Pau was out.

Droid101

08-30-2010, 06:06 PM

He's a Laker fan, and 9/7 is what he averaged during last years Championship run.
And that's relevant because...?

He was playing on one leg that needed surgery. He's not going to look like that player next year.

Doranku

08-30-2010, 06:08 PM

And that's relevant because...?

He was playing on one leg that needed surgery. He's not going to look like that player next year.

I remember saying that after 07-08. Then I remember saying that after 08-09. Now it just seems like wishful thinking. :(

SGK_81

08-30-2010, 06:08 PM

Chris Bosh isn't really 6'11". Maybe 6'10". And it's mostly neck. If he had a regular human neck he'd be, like, 6'7", tops.
:applause:

All Net

08-30-2010, 06:11 PM

I will say this if Lebron and Wade are going nuts averaging 30+ a game in a series it won't matter how much better L.A are in the frontcourt but really the chances of L.A not being able to contain them at least some of the time is slim.

Bring-Your-Js

08-30-2010, 06:12 PM

He averaged similar almost non existent numbers during this year's Finals run as well. Lakers have won back to back CHIPS without him basically.

Nope. Bynum clearly is the 2nd option behind Gasol. :oldlol:

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 06:12 PM

Chris Bosh isn't really 6'11". Maybe 6'10". And it's mostly neck. If he had a regular human neck he'd be, like, 6'7", tops.

Pre-Draft measurements

Wingspan - 7' 3.5"

So he has the wingspan of a legit PF / C. Even if his neck is a little above-average, he's definitely the size of a PF, if not taller.

All Net

08-30-2010, 06:14 PM

Bosh is around 6'10 but has very long arms which makes him even better offensively. He should be more of a threat defensively than he is.

G-Funk

08-30-2010, 06:15 PM

OKC fans said this.

Jazz fans said this.

Suns fans said this.

Magic fans said this.

Celtic fans said this.

Now

Heat fans are saying this.

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 06:19 PM

OKC fans said this.

Jazz fans said this.

Suns fans said this.

Magic fans said this.

Celtic fans said this.

Now

Heat fans are saying this.

Coincidentally, none of these teams had LeBron James or Dwyane Wade on the same team.

The Lakers have a better frontcourt. It isn't THAT much better. I already explained why. On the other hand, the Wade-LeBron duo makes up for any front-court disparity and then some. That's the whole point of this thread.

praneel

08-30-2010, 06:19 PM

You can't look at numbers to argue that Miami's frontcourt is equal/almost equal to LA's.

Numbers are used way too often to compare, because that is a tangible measuring stick. But it only tells the paper side of the game, not the game inself.

The difference is how LA plays when they have their super big line-up of Pau and Bynum. When their two guys play together, they are a dominant interior team. Dominant; not good, not great, dominant. They control the interior. Teams have a hard time scoring in the paint against them, and rebounding, try to get an offensive rebound against them. Offensively, it allows LA to be very efficient. Easy points in the playoffs, and foul trouble=easy points at the free throw line.

I will say that Miami can compete with anyone with that team they have assembled. Anytime you can have two franchise players, that is a darn good team. And an all-star as the 3rd fiddle, can't knock that.

But comparing their frontcourt to LA's and saying they are almost equal, I don't agree. I think LA still holds a considerable advantage there.

Haslem, love his game. Tough and rugged. If Miami didn't resign this guy they would have regretted it.
Anthony, blocks shots but thats it. Cant say his man-man defense is average.
Z, can still play but not a difference maker. Might be able to disrupt both Bynum and Pau with his length though.
Bosh, 20/10 don't grow on trees, and he is legit 6'11" maybe bigger. But defense will be his weakness.

Bynum, good low post game, but suspect defense
Pau, 1st team NBA type player. Very good but still underrated defensively IMO.
Odom, super versitile. Rebounds like a machine. Only issue is he has ADD sometimes
Ratliff, I would take him over Anthony, but I might be called a homer.

Gabuyaux

08-30-2010, 06:20 PM

Chris Bosh isn't really 6'11". Maybe 6'10". And it's mostly neck. If he had a regular human neck he'd be, like, 6'7", tops.
This is funny, but true. I'd give Bosh a little more leeway and say he'd be 6'8"-6'9" tops.

Samurai Swoosh

08-30-2010, 06:22 PM

It's what he averaged in the playoffs basically, on one leg. Everybody knows a healthy Bynum can give you a good 17 and 10 on any night. Hell he averaged 20 and 10 when Pau was out.
When Pau was out ... doesn't mean he'd continue to average that because he's an inconsistent player.

All Net

08-30-2010, 06:24 PM

When Pau was out ... doesn't mean he'd continue to average that because he's an inconsistent player.

Doesn't mean he wouldn't either, we don't know as Bynum has always played on a stacked team. 20 and 10 wouldn't be that hard for him to average if he was on a team like Bosh was on last season.

praneel

08-30-2010, 06:26 PM

Chris Bosh isn't really 6'11". Maybe 6'10". And it's mostly neck. If he had a regular human neck he'd be, like, 6'7", tops.

You know, I was thinking Bosh was only about 6'9" myself.

But have you seen the pictures of the Miami 3 together? Bosh is about 2 inches taller than LBJ. So, unless he is standing on somthing, he is really 6'10" or bigger. I was actually shocked when I saw that

Doranku

08-30-2010, 06:28 PM

I still can't understand why people are hyping up LA's 'size advantage' over Miami as being the determining factor in a potential Finals match-up. Bynum has been non-existent in the Playoffs for 3 straight years now, and Miami virtually has their own Pau Gasol in Chris Bosh. Furthermore, LA for some reason only utilizes their size advantage in flashes. Look at the OKC series from this year, or the Rockets series from last year. With our size, those series shouldn't have even been close. Yet we needed a last second tip in game 6 against OKC to clinch, and the Houston series went 7 games. If size advantage is as important as some of you guys are making it out to be, those series' shouldn't have gone more than 5 games.

The REAL key factor, imo, is how Kobe defends Wade. As the #1 option, Kobe has never guarded anyone close to Wade's caliber in a 7 game series. Now, with Artest guarding LeBron, Kobe's going to be forced to D up on Wade. Personally, I hope Wade lights Kobe up at some point during the regular season. The last few years Kobe's D has been sporadic and inconsistent to say the least. He isn't going to be able to take plays off on the defensive end guarding arguably the best player in the league. I really think that unless Kobe has a chip on his shoulder from Wade going off on him previously, it's going to be a long series for the Lakers.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 06:37 PM

In what ****ing universe does Andrew Bynum average 9 and 7? For his CAREER he's 10 and 7... and last season he was 15/8 on 57% shooting, half of that time spent hobbling around on a bum knee.

Obviously, the discussion is about a match-up in the playoffs. Bynum has been wholly unimpressive there.

2009--Averaged 6/3
2010--Averaged 9/7

And he's always injured. Talking about what he does when healthy is pointless.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 06:37 PM

He averaged similar almost non existent numbers during this year's Finals run as well. Lakers have won back to back CHIPS without him basically.
This.

ZenMaster

08-30-2010, 06:38 PM

Bynum? Come on, dude. He isn't this franchise sort of player people are making him out to be. He's a decent starting C. Will put up 15/10, on a good night. This is assuming he is healthy, which is uncommon for him. Do you really think his 15/10 against Joel Anthony's 7/5 (about what he will average this coming year) is going to win the series for the Lakers? No. Then, I hear about how Lamar Odom is going to terrorize the Heat off the bench. Udonis Haslem is a way better defender than Lamar Odom, and hits a more consistent shot, and will overall help his team just as much if not more than Lamar Odom.

The Heat are very good, I don't know why people are trying to put them down. But the Lakers have the best front court in the league.

Bynum will put up 15/9 on an average night so he'll put up 20/10 on a extra good night. Bynum is also our best inside defensive player.

Lamar and Haslem are pretty close in overall stat production with a small edge to Odom. Haslem might be a bit better defender but it's fairly close. You also neglect to think about the advantages that Odom creates with his ball handling and playmaking ability. He's also a pretty good system passer, he throws post feeds, high-low and cut passes very well.

Also you fail to mention that

1) The Lakers have maybe the best defensive swing man rotation in Kobe, Barnes and Artest.

2) The Lakers have the overall most balanced team in the NBA with the additions to the bench this off season. There's a bit of everything.

3) The Lakers have the best roster in terms of fitting the system played

4) The best coaching staff in the world

5) A LOT of playoff experience at the highest level

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 06:38 PM

I remember saying that after 07-08. Then I remember saying that after 08-09. Now it just seems like wishful thinking. :(
And this. :oldlol:

All Net

08-30-2010, 06:41 PM

Obviously, the discussion is about a match-up in the playoffs. Bynum has been wholly unimpressive there.

2009--Averaged 6/3
2010--Averaged 9/7

And he's always injured. Talking about what he does when healthy is pointless.

Even on one leg Bynum was a factor, him just being in the middle is a huge plus for the Lakers. He clogs the paint and makes it very tough for teams to get open looks inside. Him being active caused Boston all kinds of problems. Game 7 was proof of that.

barbaroi

08-30-2010, 06:46 PM

When Pau was out ... doesn't mean he'd continue to average that because he's an inconsistent player.
Only reason Bynum is inconsistent is because of minutes and touches. When Bynum is given 35 or more minutes he has averaged 18.2pts/11.0reb/2.0blk on 60.8%. When Bynum has been given 15 or more FGA, he has averaged 22.4/10.7/1.6 on 58.2 FG%.

You guys need to stop trying to convince yourselves LA doesn't have a dominant frontcourt. The Lakers' frontcourt averaged 44.1ppg/29.4rpg/7.8apg/4bpg last year. Miami's frountcourt hasn't got a shot in hell of getting close to that. And that's not even taking into account the defensive impact of two true 7 footers patrolling the paint. The only thing that could derail the frountcourt is injury.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 06:47 PM

Even on one leg Bynum was a factor, him just being in the middle is a huge plus for the Lakers. He clogs the paint and makes it very tough for teams to get open looks inside. Him being active caused Boston all kinds of problems. Game 7 was proof of that.
Yeah, the Game 7 where he played a whole 18 minutes, went 1-5 from the field, scored 2 points, and grabbed 6 rebounds. Domination! :oldlol:
And every center with decent size clogs the paint, but he's not really a good defender at all. I mean, if you watched the WCF you could see Phil and other Laker players screaming at him and shaking their head at his total lack of defensive awareness and rotating ability.

Samurai Swoosh

08-30-2010, 06:53 PM

Yeah, the Game 7 where he played a whole 18 minutes, went 1-5 from the field, scored 2 points, and grabbed 6 rebounds. Domination! :oldlol:
And every center with decent size clogs the paint, but he's not really a good defender at all. I mean, if you watched the WCF you could see Phil and other Laker players screaming at him and shaking their head at his total lack of defensive awareness and rotating ability.
This dude actually knows what he's talking about ...

All Net

08-30-2010, 06:55 PM

This dude actually knows what he's talking about ...

:oldlol: Are you serious? all that guy does is suck on Kobe's nuts and tries to downplay his supporting cast. He certainly doesn't know what he is talking about.

Samurai Swoosh

08-30-2010, 06:56 PM

:oldlol: Are you serious? all that guy does is suck on Kobe's nuts and tries to downplay his supporting cast. He certainly doesn't know what he is talking about.
You suck off Bynum ... whats the difference? Bynum isn't all that great.

Jasper

08-30-2010, 06:58 PM

New York Knicks

08-30-2010, 07:00 PM

Look through the history books and tell me how many teams won titles without an inside presence on both ends.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:00 PM

:oldlol: Are you serious? all that guy does is suck on Kobe's nuts and tries to downplay his supporting cast. He certainly doesn't know what he is talking about.
Yup. U mad. Get off Bynum's dick, dude. :oldlol:

no pun intended

08-30-2010, 07:00 PM

It's what he averaged in the playoffs basically, on one leg. Everybody knows a healthy Bynum can give you a good 17 and 10 on any night. Hell he averaged 20 and 10 when Pau was out.
True.

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:01 PM

You suck off Bynum ... whats the difference? Bynum isn't all that great.

Suck off Bynum how? by stating the obvious of what he brings to the table? please. Pretty pointless argueing with somebody who said Gasol isn't a low post player.

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:02 PM

Yup. U mad. Get off Bynum's dick, dude. :oldlol:

How ironic, you of all people telling somebody to get off somebody else's dick. You are the biggest Kobe dickrider on this board.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:05 PM

How ironic, you of all people telling somebody to get off somebody else's dick. You are the biggest Kobe dickrider on this board.
No, not really. Kobe is my favorite player, but I don't go around wildly overrating him like you do with Bynum. My opinions concerning Kobe are entirely reasonable. But keep sucking off the dominant unstoppable 9/7 beast Bynum! :oldlol:

praneel

08-30-2010, 07:07 PM

Look through the history books and tell me how many teams won titles without an inside presence on both ends.

One, the Bulls (well six).

But you can argue MJ was the interior presence on offense.

I can't think of any others.

This is one of the reasons MJ is the G.O.A.T.

New York Knicks

08-30-2010, 07:07 PM

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:07 PM

No, not really. Kobe is my favorite player, but I don't go around wildly overrating him like you do with Bynum. My opinions concerning Kobe are entirely reasonable. But keep sucking off the dominant unstoppable 9/7 beast Bynum! :oldlol:

:oldlol: Are you serious? every topic I see you are there defending Kobe. I rarely go into threads going on and on about Bynum like you do with Kobe. I like Bynum and I realise how good he can be but I don't go on about him like he is some amazing player. I talk about his impact and what he can do....nothing like what you seem to do.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:10 PM

:oldlol: Are you serious? every topic I see you are there defending Kobe. I rarely go into threads going on and on about Bynum like you do with Kobe. I like Bynum and I realise how good he can be but I don't go on about him like he is some amazing player. I talk about his impact and what he can do....nothing like what you seem to do.
What's your point? In case you didn't notice, Bynum threads (and haters) are a lot rarer than Kobe haters/threads. Like I said, I don't go around overrating Kobe like you do with Bynum. :oldlol:

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:13 PM

What's your point? In case you didn't notice, Bynum threads (and haters) are a lot rarer than Kobe haters/threads. Like I said, I don't go around overrating Kobe like you do with Bynum. :oldlol:

How have I overrated Bynum? I said he can be a 17 and 10 guy when healthy..(very realistic) I stated he averaged 20 and 10 without Pau (Which is true)

I said he made a difference in the finals with his size, length and clogging the paint which is true. Anybody who watched the finals saw this. Which again is true.

So where have I overrated Bynum again?

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:16 PM

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:17 PM

Him being active caused Boston all kinds of problems. Game 7 was proof of that.
Overrating.

ZenMaster

08-30-2010, 07:19 PM

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:20 PM

Except he really didn't make a difference in the Finals. He averaged like 6/4 on horrible efficiency and had 2/6 in the the deciding Game 7. You're acting like he had a huge impact on that series when he clearly didn't.

You can't base everything on stats, Bynum just being there caused Boston's bigs problems. Bynum inside with Pau caused alot of problems inside. Boston never had a clear lane to attack. Bynum's size along hurt Boston.

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:21 PM

Overrating.

Please, Bynum's length was a factor you are clearly a boxscore guy. Watch the freaking games.

PowerGlove

08-30-2010, 07:21 PM

Perkins was missing in game 7.......

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:21 PM

Yeah--0.1 SPG/1.3 BPG. Awesome.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:23 PM

You can't base everything on stats
Rather base of stats than totally subjective opinions. I watched the games. They back up what I saw.

SinJackal

08-30-2010, 07:24 PM

How have I overrated Bynum? I said he can be a 17 and 10 guy when healthy..(very realistic) I stated he averaged 20 and 10 without Pau (Which is true)

I said he made a difference in the finals with his size, length and clogging the paint which is true. Anybody who watched the finals saw this. Which again is true.

So where have I overrated Bynum again?

Good analysis. Sometimes people forget Bynum is just 22 and can improve.

New York Knicks

08-30-2010, 07:25 PM

Yeah--0.1 SPG/1.3 BPG. Awesome.
That's pretty damn good for 25 minutes a night.

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:26 PM

Rather base of stats than totally subjective opinions. I watched the games. They back up what I saw.

You are clearly a boxscore guy, most who watched the series could see Bynum's impact on the game. His defense was good considering how badly he was hurting.

SourGrapes

08-30-2010, 07:28 PM

the kobe fans who underrate the lakers' frontcourt are hilarious.

pau/andrew/lamar don't have to be the best, just really good. anyone who watches games knows they are

Sarcastic

08-30-2010, 07:28 PM

The key to the Lakers beating the Heat is not their front court. It's how well Artest can check LeBron. If he can keep LeBron from going off, the Lakers have the advantages at most other spots.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:29 PM

Laker fans overrating Odom/Bynum are ridiculous. :oldlol:

indiefan24

08-30-2010, 07:30 PM

Most under rated Laker is Odom.

Team USA begs to differ.

SourGrapes

08-30-2010, 07:30 PM

Rather base of stats than totally subjective opinions. I watched the games. They back up what I saw.

nope. proficient length and size changes the game in ways that don't show up in the box score, necessarily.

quit lying, you look like a fool in front of everyone

New York Knicks

08-30-2010, 07:31 PM

Team USA begs to differ.
They're playing him at Center.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:33 PM

nope. proficient length and size changes the game in ways that don't show up in the box score, necessarily.

quit lying, you look like a fool in front of everyone
It's you guys who look like fools. No wonder Laker fans are the most ridiculed fans on the Net. Clowns like you and All Net acting like 9/7 is special. :roll:

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:33 PM

Team USA begs to differ.

They are playing him at center, that plays a factor. Odom is very important to Lakers success. That is clear. He hasn't been that bad for the US. Overall he has been the one to rebound the ball and done it well compared to others.

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:34 PM

It's you guys who look like fools. No wonder Laker fans are the most ridiculed fans on the Net. Clowns like you and All Net acting like 9/7 is special. :roll:

It's fools like you who downplay everybody else to make Kobe look even greater...thats what you call a real clown. It's a team game.

indiefan24

08-30-2010, 07:34 PM

They're playing him at Center.

So what? Doesn't refute the fact that the guy is one of the most inconsistent players in the league.

New York Knicks

08-30-2010, 07:34 PM

It's you guys who look like fools. No wonder Laker fans are the most ridiculed fans on the Net. Clowns like you and All Net acting like 9/7 is special. :roll:
Laker fans aren't ridiculed. Kobe fans are.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:36 PM

It's fools like you who downplay everybody else to make Kobe look great...thats what you call a real clown.
It has nothing to do with downplaying anybody and everything to do with looking at Bynum realistically, which you Laker homers can't seem to grasp. Dumbass. :cry:

ZenMaster

08-30-2010, 07:36 PM

It's you guys who look like fools. No wonder Laker fans are the most ridiculed fans on the Net. Clowns like you and All Net acting like 9/7 is special. :roll:

It's like you're not reading what people are writing.

SourGrapes

08-30-2010, 07:36 PM

It's you guys who look like fools. No wonder Laker fans are the most ridiculed fans on the Net. Clowns like you and All Net acting like 9/7 is special. :roll:

you didn't read my post. look beyond the stats. find me a team that wins without controlling the paint on both sides. that happens from the inside more than the outside

get a clue loser... kobe's great, but size and skill are requirements

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:37 PM

Laker fans aren't ridiculed. Kobe fans are.
No, you're wrong.

SinJackal

08-30-2010, 07:38 PM

It's fools like you who downplay everybody else to make Kobe look even greater...thats what you call a real clown. It's a team game.

Exactly. Real fans don't bash their own players when they've been key parts of the team. Repped.

No, you're wrong.

He's actually right.

New York Knicks

08-30-2010, 07:38 PM

So what? Doesn't refute the fact that the guy is one of the most inconsistent players in the league.
My response was to what you said about Team USA.

New York Knicks

08-30-2010, 07:39 PM

No, you're wrong.
If you say it, it must be so!

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:40 PM

If you say it, it must be so!
Yep.

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:42 PM

you didn't read my post. look beyond the stats. find me a team that wins without controlling the paint on both sides. that happens from the inside more than the outside

get a clue loser... kobe's great, but size and skill are requirements

This guy is a perfect reason why Kobe gets hated so much...It annoys the hell out of me. All Laker fans love Kobe and what he brings but his dickrider fans who think the world and team is all about Kobe is annoying as hell. Kobe has talented team-mates and Bynum is one of them.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:46 PM

This guy is a perfect reason why Kobe gets hated so much
You're a perfect example of why Laker fans are consistently thought as one of the dumbest fan-bases on the Net. Congrats, you idiot. :applause:

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:48 PM

You're a perfect example of why Laker fans are consistently thought as one of the dumbest fan-bases on the Net. Congrats, you idiot. :applause:

Laker fans get a bad rep due to people like you. Most would agree with that on here. There is nothing worse than idiots like you who think the world is all about one player. Most of the Laker fans on here are great fans with great basketball knowledge what ruins everything is people like you who go on and on about Kobe and how his supporting cast isn't strong.

anyway back to the topic in hand, this was once a reasonable topic to discuss.

Bigsmoke

08-30-2010, 07:48 PM

i cant remember that last time when Michael Jordan won a series against a team that had a worse frontcourt than his Bulls squad did. :confusedshrug:

New York Knicks

08-30-2010, 07:49 PM

You're a perfect example of why Laker fans are consistently thought as one of the dumbest fan-bases on the Net. Congrats, you idiot. :applause:
LOL, Jack3 thinks if he says it enough, we'll believe his lie. Life of a Kobe nutjob I guess.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:50 PM

Laker fans get a bad rep due to people like you. Most would agree with that on here. There is nothing worse than idiots like you who think the world is all about one player.
You just keep making shit up. You're an embarrassment to reasonable Laker fans.

SourGrapes

08-30-2010, 07:50 PM

You're a perfect example of why Laker fans are consistently thought as one of the dumbest fan-bases on the Net. Congrats, you idiot. :applause:

the problem with you is, i like kobe a lot as a player. but you as$holes spoil a great thing with your bullsh*t

allnet speaks the truth, you're a gimmick at best

Papaya Petee

08-30-2010, 07:51 PM

Am I the only one that thinks this is all Gasol, and Bynum really doesn't do shit?

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:52 PM

You just keep making shit up. You're an embarrassment to reasonable Laker fans.

:oldlol: You won't get many to back up that claim.

All Net

08-30-2010, 07:53 PM

Am I the only one that thinks this is all Gasol, and Bynum really doesn't do shit?

You can think that if you wish, it would be totally off base though. If Lakers meet Miami in the playoffs and everybody is healthy the Lakers frontcourt shoudn't have many problems attacking Miami inside.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:54 PM

the problem with you is, i like kobe a lot as a player. but you as$holes spoil a great thing with your bullsh*t

allnet speaks the truth, you're a gimmick at best
The problem with you is, you're too much of a homer to realize that Bynum is who you think he is. I'm a gimmick because I don't wildly overrate Bynum, huh? What a joke you are. :oldlol:

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 07:55 PM

:oldlol: You won't get many to back up that claim.
lol It's the truth.

ZenMaster

08-30-2010, 07:57 PM

Am I the only one that thinks this is all Gasol, and Bynum really doesn't do shit?

Pretty much, because it's not right.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 08:00 PM

Am I the only one that thinks this is all Gasol, and Bynum really doesn't do shit?
This. Gasol is only front-court guy the Heat should be worried about and game-plan for.

gts

08-30-2010, 08:01 PM

The problem with you is, you're too much of a homer to realize that Bynum is who you think he is. I'm a gimmick because I don't wildly overrate Bynum, huh? What a joke you are. :oldlol:somebody ban this fool

All Net

08-30-2010, 08:01 PM

This. Gasol is only front-court guy the Heat should be worried about and game-plan for.

Just hope the Miami coaching staff have that same thought of mind.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 08:02 PM

somebody ban this fool
Another Laker fan who's a dumass. I'm shocked. :oldlol:

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 08:03 PM

Just hope the Miami coaching staff have that same thought of mind.
No sane coaching staff is going to game-plan for Bynum and Odom when Kobe and Gasol are out there. Please be serious. :facepalm

Papaya Petee

08-30-2010, 08:04 PM

Pretty much, because it's not right.

Not really, please hit me up with Bynum playoff numbers in 2007-2008, 2008-2009 and 2009-2010.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 08:05 PM

2009--Averaged 6/3
2010--Averaged 9/7
:oldlol:

barbaroi

08-30-2010, 08:08 PM

This. Gasol is only front-court guy the Heat should be worried about and game-plan for.
Would you gameplan for Bogut if you were playing the Bucks? Bogut's statline for 2010 was 16/10/2.5 on 54 TS%. Bynum's was 15/8/1.4 on 61 TS% in fewer minutes. Yet Bynum is someone you can ignore?

NuggetsFan

08-30-2010, 08:10 PM

I can't believe I'm defending Bynum but when he's healthy he's can be dangerous. He's a guy who can atleast get you 15\10 and is capable of doing more. Today's that's a pretty big advantage in the center position.

I don't see how people don't see this as a huge advantage. Not only is the Heat team not good defensively in the frontcourt but L.A's bigs are all very good rebounders and Pau\Bynum are legit 7 footers with post skills. If your the Heat you attack there bigs and look to get em in foul trouble and L.A should dump the ball down low.

Papaya Petee

08-30-2010, 08:10 PM

Would you gameplan for Bogut if you were playing the Bucks? Bogut's statline for 2010 was 16/10/2.5 on 54 TS%. Bynum's was 15/8/1.4 on 61 TS% in fewer minutes. Yet Bynum is someone you can ignore?

Totally different. Andrew Bogut is the undisputed number 1 option for the Bucks. Bynum is 3rd option at BEST for the Lakers, could go down as much as the 5th option. Also, Andrew has shown to be very injury prone, and his playoff numbers don't support his "dominance"

Pau Gasol is the only scary person in the Lakers frontcourt.

ZenMaster

08-30-2010, 08:14 PM

Not really, please hit me up with Bynum playoff numbers in 2007-2008, 2008-2009 and 2009-2010.

It's about more than that.

Look at the 7 game series last year against the Celtics. And I don't mean look at the stats, I mean watch the games and tell me he didn't make a difference.

barbaroi

08-30-2010, 08:17 PM

Totally different. Andrew Bogut is the undisputed number 1 option for the Bucks. Bynum is 3rd option at BEST for the Lakers, could go down as much as the 5th option. Also, Andrew has shown to be very injury prone, and his playoff numbers don't support his "dominance"

Pau Gasol is the only scary person in the Lakers frontcourt.
:oldlol: So putting up similar numbers to a first option as 3rd option is somehow a negative? Just imagine if he were the first or second option. Hell, don't even imagine: just look up how he did with Pau out (19.9/11.1/1.7 59.3%).

As for his lack of dominance in the playoffs, his playoff numbers come with 19.6 minutes played per game :rolleyes: . I think his numbers when he is healthy and getting minutes provide a more accurate assessment of the kind of player he is.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 08:17 PM

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 08:19 PM

Would you gameplan for Bogut if you were playing the Bucks? Bogut's statline for 2010 was 16/10/2.5 on 54 TS%. Bynum's was 15/8/1.4 on 61 TS% in fewer minutes. Yet Bynum is someone you can ignore?
Call me when Bynum comes even remotely close to 15/8/1.4 in the playoffs. He sure as hell hasn't yet. And Bogut isn't playing with Kobe friggin Bryant.

gts

08-30-2010, 08:22 PM

Totally different. Andrew Bogut is the undisputed number 1 option for the Bucks. Bynum is 3rd option at BEST for the Lakers, could go down as much as the 5th option. Also, Andrew has shown to be very injury prone, and his playoff numbers don't support his "dominance"

Pau Gasol is the only scary person in the Lakers frontcourt.
scary isn't it?
think about this he's the third option at best possibly the 5th...

the lakers don't need him to produce to win titles yet they have twice now with minimal contributions from bynum while facing two top defensive front courts the last two years.... now the lakes have barnes and ratliff to add to the collection

if bynum is healthy think about that a healthy andrew bynum as your 3rd option possibly the 5th as you put it....

who's the heats 5th option? who's the heats 3rd option? heck who's their 2nd option

Papaya Petee

08-30-2010, 08:23 PM

:oldlol: So putting up similar numbers to a first option as 3rd option is somehow a negative? Just imagine if he were the first or second option. Hell, don't even imagine: just look up how he did with Pau out (19.9/11.1/1.7 59.3%).

As for his lack of dominance in the playoffs, his playoff numbers come with 19.6 minutes played per game :rolleyes: . I think his numbers when he is healthy and getting minutes provide a more accurate assessment of the kind of player he is.
Not really, if he was the number one option, teams would definitely adjust, even when Pau was out, do you really think he ever saw a double team? Hell no, Kobe Bryant saw all the double teams. If Andrew Bogut played single coverage you think he wouldn't average 20\10? Andrew isn't a great passer he would definitly struggle as the number 1 option as teams adjusted their defense on him.

As for his playoff performance, he still isn't a serious threat until proven otherwise.

Papaya Petee

08-30-2010, 08:24 PM

scary isn't it?
think about this he's the third option at best possibly the 5th...

the lakers don't need him to produce to win titles yet they have twice now with minimal contributions from bynum while facing two top defensive front courts the last two years.... now the lakes have barnes and ratliff to add to the collection

if bynum is healthy think about that a healthy andrew bynum as your 3rd option possibly the 5th as you put it....

who's the heats 5th option? who's the heats 3rd option? heck who's their 2nd option

Heat's third option is only a 24\11\2 guy.

triangleoffense

08-30-2010, 08:26 PM

Chris Bosh isn't really 6'11". Maybe 6'10". And it's mostly neck. If he had a regular human neck he'd be, like, 6'7", tops.

lol

triangleoffense

08-30-2010, 08:27 PM

chazzy

08-30-2010, 08:27 PM

Big Z can actually give our bigs some problems, but that was in conjunction with Shaq clogging up the middle. Still, I remember his length bothering Pau during the Cavs games last season.

But Bynum's impact is being severely underrated because of how often he's injured, he's a legitimate 18/10 threat when healthy and given 2nd option touches. That's not something you can just ignore. Hopefully his chemistry alongside Pau improves this season.. he sometimes takes plays off when he doesn't get enough touches.

BFRESH44

08-30-2010, 08:29 PM

:oldlol: Just wait until Pat Riley signs Erick Dampier(once he's free) to add to Miami's center platoon. It'll be closer to a wash then.

gts

08-30-2010, 08:30 PM

Heat's third option is only a 24\11\2 guy.

those are his first option numbers on a crap team.. guess what he ain't sniffing those anytime soon and you better hope he doesn't because if he does it means something is seriously wrong in south beach.

barbaroi

08-30-2010, 08:33 PM

Not really, if he was the number one option, teams would definitely adjust, even when Pau was out, do you really think he ever saw a double team? Hell no, Kobe Bryant saw all the double teams. If Andrew Bogut played single coverage you think he wouldn't average 20\10? Andrew isn't a great passer he would definitly struggle as the number 1 option as teams adjusted their defense on him.

As for his playoff performance, he still isn't a serious threat until proven otherwise.
I know he saw double teams because I watched the games. Most of the time he takes the double and passes it out for an open shot or a repost just like he should. On the rare occasion that he doesn't do that he spins away from the helper for a hook, which still isn't a bad option considering he shoots 60%. Haven't seen him having any real difficulty dealing with double teams.

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 08:34 PM

those are his first option numbers on a crap team.. guess what he ain't sniffing those anytime soon and you better hope he doesn't because if he does it means something is seriously wrong in south beach.

It's amazing how people who blatantly know so little about basketball get such high reps.

Bosh averaged 24/11 on ISO alone. He will be getting so many open touches with LeBron and Wade that I wouldn't be surprised to see him average 24 again on something like 65% shooting. 11 rebounds isn't out of the question since we don't have many rebounders on the team.

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 08:36 PM

who's the heats 5th option? who's the heats 3rd option? heck who's their 2nd option

3rd

http://www.rumorpress.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/chris_bosh.jpg

5th

http://www.rotorob.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/Udonis_Haslem.jpg

2nd

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt141/robert34_photos/dwyane-wade.jpg

I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

chazzy

08-30-2010, 08:37 PM

:oldlol: Just wait until Pat Riley signs Erick Dampier(once he's free) to add to Miami's center platoon. It'll be closer to a wash then.

Meh, wouldn't get too excited about him. Another body to add to the committee crew, but he can't really check Bynum from what I've seen.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201001130DAL.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200811280LAL.html

All Net

08-30-2010, 08:38 PM

gts

08-30-2010, 08:38 PM

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 08:39 PM

you seriously think he's gonna get off 20 plus shot attempts per night?

Yes, because it takes 20 plus shot attempts to average 24 points on 65%. You must be some sort of mathematician.

And @ All Net, I know it's a slim chance... But you and I both know it's very possible. Dwyane and LeBron will both draw double teams, Bosh will be open all night.

All Net

08-30-2010, 08:40 PM

Call me when Bynum comes even remotely close to 15/8/1.4 in the playoffs. He sure as hell hasn't yet. And Bogut isn't playing with Kobe friggin Bryant.

Which is why his numbers should be better. Health is the only thing holding Bynum back right now.

Soundwave

08-30-2010, 08:41 PM

praneel

08-30-2010, 08:41 PM

It's amazing how people who blatantly know so little about basketball get such high reps.

Bosh averaged 24/11 on ISO alone. He will be getting so many open touches with LeBron and Wade that I wouldn't be surprised to see him average 24 again on something like 65% shooting. 11 rebounds isn't out of the question since we don't have many rebounders on the team.

I highly doubt Bosh gets 30+ touches in a game like he did in Toronto. Which will severly limit his offensive output. And since he is the ONLY low post option, I doubt he will get single teamed on the block, if he decides to play down there the majority of the time.

Rebounds, he might get unless Lebron snatches them from him.

But the points he aint gonna get. He won't see the ball enough. He might get 18 to 20, but not 24. The % I expect to be high 50s.

Jacks3

08-30-2010, 08:42 PM

Which is why his numbers should be better. Health is the only thing holding Bynum back right now.
Dude, Kobe helps Bynum immensely. Put Bogut next to Kobe/Gasol and his efficiency will go through the roof. Might increase his offensive rebounding too.

chazzy

08-30-2010, 08:42 PM

Bynum would definitely see an increase in scoring and rebounding if he were a team's primary post player, but his efficiency and turnovers would take a hit. He doesn't execute well out of frequent double teams.

All Net

08-30-2010, 08:42 PM

Yes, because it takes 20 plus shot attempts to average 24 points on 65%. You must be some sort of mathematician.

And @ All Net, I know it's a slim chance... But you and I both know it's very possible. Dwyane and LeBron will both draw double teams, Bosh will be open all night.

Bosh's life will be made alot easier which is why he won't be averaging 24 a game. I think 17/18 is more realistic. For as good as Bosh is more shots he takes away from Lebron/Wade the better. That will be everybody else's view.

All Net

08-30-2010, 08:43 PM

Dude, Kobe helps Bynum immensely. Put Bogut next to Kobe/Gasol and his efficiency will go through the roof. Might increase his offensive rebounding too.

It works both ways, I can see it both sides. There is no doubt Kobe helps Bynum like he helps everybody else.

barbaroi

08-30-2010, 08:43 PM

It's amazing how people who blatantly know so little about basketball get such high reps.

Bosh averaged 24/11 on ISO alone. He will be getting so many open touches with LeBron and Wade that I wouldn't be surprised to see him average 24 again on something like 65% shooting. 11 rebounds isn't out of the question since we don't have many rebounders on the team.
:roll: You think Bosh is going to shoot 65% and score 24 ppg? Honestly? Wilt Chamberlain's 67 season is the only season in which a player shot 65%+ and scored 20+. Bosh is not Wilt. Bosh has a career FG% of 49%, but he's suddenly going to shoot 65% :oldlol: . Ridiculous.

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 08:48 PM

:roll: You think Bosh is going to shoot 65% and score 24 ppg? Honestly? Wilt Chamberlain's 67 season is the only season in which a player shot 65%+ and scored 20+. Bosh is not Wilt. Bosh has a career FG% of 49%, but he's suddenly going to shoot 65% :oldlol: . Ridiculous.

Probably not 65%, my bad. Exaggerated a bit. But 55%+ isn't out of the question. Like I said, he WILL get a ton of open baskets, which he won't miss since he's is such a gifted scorer.

BFRESH44

08-30-2010, 08:51 PM

Meh, wouldn't get too excited about him. Another body to add to the committee crew, but he can't really check Bynum from what I've seen.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201001130DAL.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200811280LAL.html

If you're going by regular season numbers, check Bynum's career numbers againist Miami. They are nothing to write home about. The Heat's defensive scheming and paint production is TOP notch. Regardless of the personnel.

chazzy

08-30-2010, 08:54 PM

If you're going by regular season numbers, check Bynum's career numbers againist Miami. They are nothing to write home about. The Heat's defensive scheming and paint production is TOP notch. Regardless of the personnel.

But you said adding him alone makes the frontcourt matchup a "wash." When individually he's not much of a deterrent to our center, so I don't see how he eliminates an obvious advantage.

All Net

08-30-2010, 08:55 PM

If you're going by regular season numbers, check Bynum's career numbers againist Miami. They are nothing to write home about. The Heat's defensive scheming and paint production is TOP notch. Regardless of the personnel.

Well it better be this year as if their interior is as soft as it looks on paper teams like L.A will score at will inside. Miami will need Lebron/Wade to go nuts to beat the Lakers if the Heat frontcourt can't get a body on the Lakers big frontcourt.

Papaya Petee

08-30-2010, 08:57 PM

The thing is though I don't think guys like LeBron or Wade would think twice about driving into the lane versus Gasol/Bynum/Odom. And Bosh can score on all three of those guys too even if he only play adequate defense.

The Lakers do have length, but their front court isn't exactly full of defensive superstars that are going to deter the big three from attacking the rim.

The Heat do need to make sure they get on the glass though, but Bosh/Anthony/Magloire/etc. can grab their share of rebounds.

Riley will probably make an addition at the trade deadline anyway.

Not sure if serious :lol

Wade and LeBron drive on whoever they go up against and they do it better then anyone else in the league. Wade has a average of like 30 ppg on 50% vs Orlando while driving on Dwight Howard, and LeBron has a average of like 30 ppg on 50% vs Boston while driving on Perkins and Garnett, so I'm sure they are super intimidated by driving on Bynum and Odom.

All Net

08-30-2010, 08:59 PM

Not sure if serious :lol

Wade and LeBron drive on whoever they go up against and they do it better then anyone else in the league. Wade has a average of like 30 ppg on 50% vs Orlando while driving on Dwight Howard, and LeBron has a average of like 30 ppg on 50% vs Boston while driving on Perkins and Garnett, so I'm sure they are super intimidated by driving on Bynum and Odom.

Exaggerated abit?

Papaya Petee

08-30-2010, 09:02 PM

Exaggerated abit?

The stats aren't. The rest maybe a little.

barbaroi

08-30-2010, 09:03 PM

Probably not 65%, my bad. Exaggerated a bit. But 55%+ isn't out of the question. Like I said, he WILL get a ton of open baskets, which he won't miss since he's is such a gifted scorer.
At his current rate of FTA he would still need 16 shots to score 24 if he were shooting 55%.

All Net

08-30-2010, 09:04 PM

Got to admit I am curious how much Wade and Lebron do get to the line this year. They average like 20 FT's a game between them but interesting how the refs adjust.

BFRESH44

08-30-2010, 09:07 PM

Well it better be this year as if their interior is as soft as it looks on paper teams like L.A will score at will inside. Miami will need Lebron/Wade to go nuts to beat the Lakers if the Heat frontcourt can't get a body on the Lakers big frontcourt.

:oldlol: Actaully, it'll be the Lakers who need Kobe & Gasol to go nuts to have a shot at beating Miami.

Kobe engages the Laker's offense. He takes the most shots. He has the highest usage rate. Second is Gasol. Those are the Lakers two best players.

Bynum oppritunites in regards to post-up isolations(in the playoffs) have come few and far between

As a third best threat, I'm taking Bosh over Bynum.

All Net

08-30-2010, 09:10 PM

:oldlol: Actaully, it'll be the Lakers who need Kobe & Gasol to go nuts to have a shot at beating Miami.

Kobe engages the Laker's offense. He takes the most shots. He has the highest usage rate. Second is Gasol. Those are the Lakers two best players.

Bynum oppritunites in regards to post-up isolations(in the playoffs) have come few and far between.

Please, all Lakers need to is feed the ball inside and attack the Miami interior defense. They shouldn't have a problem scoring inside. Lakers on the other hand have a few options to help contain the Miami permeter stars.

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 09:38 PM

Please, all Lakers need to is feed the ball inside and attack the Miami interior defense. They shouldn't have a problem scoring inside. Lakers on the other hand have a few options to help contain the Miami permeter stars.

Oof... Easier said than done. One does not simply shut down LeBron and Wade XD. I see what you're saying, though.

All Net

08-30-2010, 09:46 PM

Oof... Easier said than done. One does not simply shut down LeBron and Wade XD. I see what you're saying, though.

It isn't possible to shut down Lebron and Wade but having options like Artest, Barnes and Kobe can't hurt. It will truely be a battle of permeter star power vs inside star power. Should be fun.

InfiniteBaskets

08-30-2010, 09:58 PM

Please, all Lakers need to is feed the ball inside and attack the Miami interior defense. They shouldn't have a problem scoring inside. Lakers on the other hand have a few options to help contain the Miami permeter stars.
Assuming the Laker Heat final:
If Kobe takes as many shot attempts next year in the finals as he did this year the Lakers wouldn't be feeding the ball inside enough. Even with a distinct front-court advantage, it would be foolish to think that Kobe wouldn't still be the Lakers' number one option.

Papaya Petee

08-30-2010, 10:00 PM

Assuming the Laker Heat final:
If Kobe takes as many shot attempts next year in the finals as he did this year the Lakers wouldn't be feeding the ball inside enough. Even with a distinct front-court advantage, it would be foolish to think that Kobe wouldn't still be the Lakers' number one option.
So you're basically saying if LA is to beat Miami Kobe won't be Finals MVP? Well sure as hell that isn't happening.

Peteballa

08-30-2010, 10:08 PM

It isn't possible to shut down Lebron and Wade but having options like Artest, Barnes and Kobe can't hurt. It will truely be a battle of permeter star power vs inside star power. Should be fun.

Yeah it will be epic. Can't wait.

barbaroi

08-30-2010, 10:11 PM

Assuming the Laker Heat final:
If Kobe takes as many shot attempts next year in the finals as he did this year the Lakers wouldn't be feeding the ball inside enough. Even with a distinct front-court advantage, it would be foolish to think that Kobe wouldn't still be the Lakers' number one option.
LO/Pau/Bynum averaged 44.1ppg in the regular season on 32 FGA, with Kobe taking 22 FGA (he averaged 23 FGA in the finals, not much of a difference). There are plenty of shots for the frontcourt even with Kobe as 1st option.

All Net

08-30-2010, 10:13 PM

LO/Pau/Bynum averaged 44.1ppg in the regular season on 32 FGA, with Kobe taking 22 FGA (he averaged 23 FGA in the finals, not much of a difference). There are plenty of shots for the frountcourt even with Kobe as 1st option.

This

There will always be shots for the frontcourt. More so when they are so good at crashing the boards. L.A will always have the height advantage so the chances of there being plenty of 2nd chance points should be fairly high.

Miami fans must realise when you win back to back titles why Laker fans are bound to be confident. Kobe and this frontcourt is what has won titles.

gilalizard

08-30-2010, 10:25 PM

Most under rated Laker is Odom.

AS a PF he runs and dribbles the length of the floor , takes it to the hoop and rebounds.
Even if the teams were to be even - Odom is the difference maker.

Who is over rated : Bynum (simply because of injury)

This dude is a big body , and if he is ever healthy - he as well is a difference maker , on the boards as well as low post (3 foot shots)
---------------

I am not a Laker fan , and if I were to ra-ra for either of the teams it would be the Heat... but the advantage is the Lakers frontline.

Now if we want to talk about the wing - advantage Heat.

Odom isn't underrated. Just about everyone sees how talented he is. He's just too inconsistent.

Which is why he never materialized as "Pippen" to Kobe's "MJ", which everyone was talking about a few years back as LA's formula for success. And which is why he leads off the bench. Before they brought in Gasol, Lamar was supposed to be the taller, longer, highly-talented second option. The problem was he didn't produce consistently.

Of course, if the sugar rush from all the candy bars hits at the right time, he can go off like a legit second. So indeed, he is a big wild card.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 10:29 PM

All Net

08-30-2010, 10:35 PM

This could be the defining question of the season. As nice as Fisher, Bryant and Artest are, they're not going to beat Wade, LeBron and Miller on the wing. The Heat will have a major advantage there. Where the Lakers will have to win is in the paint. If they don't roll through Miami down low, I don't see how the Lakers can win.

That said, I think the Lakers win in 7. I don't buy that Joel Anthony as your starting center gets you a championship.

IT will be more than just Fisher/Kobe/Artest though. Guys like Steve Blake and Matt Barnes could be huge additions offensively and defensively. Blake is going to get a ton of open looks from three.

Bring-Your-Js

08-30-2010, 10:36 PM

This could be the defining question of the season. As nice as Fisher, Bryant and Artest are, they're not going to beat Wade, LeBron and Miller on the wing. The Heat will have a major advantage there. Where the Lakers will have to win is in the paint. If they don't roll through Miami down low, I don't see how the Lakers can win.

That said, I think the Lakers win in 7. I don't buy that Joel Anthony as your starting center gets you a championship.

I agree with no way, no how as far as the perimeter matchups go and Lakers' frontcourt will need to be all that it can, but kobe is still going to need to outplay wade, if only marginally. Artest/Barnes can do what they can to minimize lebron.

Bring-Your-Js

08-30-2010, 10:44 PM

Lakers can ill afford to have bryant throw up an '04 type finals stinkbomb and expect to win based on frontcourt alone. Preposterous. He needs a 2009 type series with even better shooting.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 10:46 PM

I agree with no way, no how as far as the perimeter matchups go and Lakers' frontcourt will need to be all that it can, but kobe is still going to need to outplay wade, if only marginally. Artest/Barnes can do what they can to minimize lebron.

The problem becomes that we it's not like before where limiting LeBron or Wade kills the team. One of the scariest aspects to this Miami team is that Wade and LeBron probably only need to have really good games twice each in a series.

In the past, for Wade or LeBron to have a chance in the playoffs they had to be the best player on the floor four out of seven games. That certainly isn't the case now. They're going to be able to pick and choose when they need to go all out. That's not even accounting for the times Chris Bosh could be the best on the floor.

It's kind of like how Kobe can play with LA. Kobe can pick and choose which games he wants to lay the smack down in. Kobe doesn't have to be, far and away, the best player on the floor for four games for the Lakers to advance.

So, to win the match up on the wing, you're going to have seriously limit both, not just one.

gilalizard

08-30-2010, 10:46 PM

Got to admit I am curious how much Wade and Lebron do get to the line this year. They average like 20 FT's a game between them but interesting how the refs adjust.

I've been wondering this very same thing. The refs can't realistically give both star treatment when it comes to fouls, yet both have lived with star treatment their entire careers.

If the refs do give both star calls, there's going to be a huge outcry from anyone and everyone they play. If the refs don't, there's going to be a river of tears from either Wade or Lebron when they get called like a normal player.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 10:47 PM

Lakers can ill afford to have bryant throw up an '04 type finals stinkbomb and expect to win based on frontcourt alone. Preposterous. He needs a 2009 type series with even better shooting.

That's true. Kobe winning his match up with Wade will be essential. Kind of tough to see considering they've always been pretty even when going head to head.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 10:53 PM

I've been wondering this very same thing. The refs can't realistically give both star treatment when it comes to fouls, yet both have lived with star treatment their entire careers.

If the refs do give both star calls, there's going to be a huge outcry from anyone and everyone they play. If the refs don't, there's going to be a river of tears from either Wade or Lebron when they get called like a normal player.

I think the refs will still give those calls. With both on the floor, the majority of defenses will be be broken down. The refs will be forced to call almost anything. It's what's always happened with LeBron and Wade. They're so famous for creating contact that the pressure was always too much for the refs not to call a foul. That may only be heightened now.

All Net

08-30-2010, 10:54 PM

The problem becomes that we it's not like before where limiting LeBron or Wade kills the team. One of the scariest aspects to this Miami team is that Wade and LeBron probably only need to have really good games twice each in a series.

In the past, for Wade or LeBron to have a chance in the playoffs they had to be the best player on the floor four out of seven games. That certainly isn't the case now. They're going to be able to pick and choose when they need to go all out. That's not even accounting for the times Chris Bosh could be the best on the floor.

It's kind of like how Kobe can play with LA. Kobe can pick and choose which games he wants to lay the smack down in. Kobe doesn't have to be, far and away, the best player on the floor for four games for the Lakers to advance.

So, to win the match up on the wing, you're going to have seriously limit both, not just one.

Due to Miami's frontcourt I'm not sure they can both only just have real good games. They both need to play great in most games if this series happens. Lakers frontcourt could be that good that they need to play great to win.

Bring-Your-Js

08-30-2010, 10:54 PM

That's true. Kobe winning his match up with Wade will be essential. Kind of tough to see considering they've always been pretty even when going head to head.

Yah career wise i believe bryant is 29.5 ppg/46% and wade 26.5 ppg/44% against each other.

We'll need to see how bryant looks coming off the surgery but wade is one beast of a job to keep in front of you, no matter who you are. Conversely, I've always felt bryant had a distinct advantage on him in the low post and never seems to have trouble getting his shot off at will. it's just concerning when you see how little lift kobe had in his legs towards the end of games, especially wcf and nba finals. I think a deeper roster will help him tremendously this year in keeping mins down.

InfiniteBaskets

08-30-2010, 10:56 PM

LO/Pau/Bynum averaged 44.1ppg in the regular season on 32 FGA, with Kobe taking 22 FGA (he averaged 23 FGA in the finals, not much of a difference). There are plenty of shots for the frontcourt even with Kobe as 1st option.

44.1 ppg is nothing to brag about if that's the department where you have your advantage in.

Wade and LeBron by themselves will most likely average more than that. I'm saying that if the Lakers want to maximize their advantage, they should make feeding the post their number one priority on offense. However with a guy like Kobe who has a chance to catch Jordan, you won't be able to get Pau/LO/Bynum as many touches as you would like.

In the playoffs Pau had 13, and Bynum had 6.5 FGA's per game compared to 22 of Kobe's. I don't see that changing in the big's favor next year.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 10:58 PM

Yah career wise i believe bryant is 29.5 ppg/46% and wade 26.5 ppg/44% against each other.

We'll need to see how bryant looks coming off the surgery but wade is one beast of a job to keep in front of you, no matter who you are. Conversely, I've always felt bryant had a distinct advantage on him in the low post and never seems to have trouble getting his shot off at will. it's just concerning when you see how little lift kobe had in his legs towards the end of games, especially wcf and nba finals. I think a deeper roster will help him tremendously this year in keeping mins down.

The Lakers would probably try to stick Kobe on Miller and let him conserve energy. Then they can let Artest and Barnes cover Wade & LeBron. The thing is you want Fisher on the floor in the fourth quarter and I don't think you want him covering Wade. Kobe's getting older and we've seen how chasing Ray Allen around has worn on him in the past. Wade would be a much bigger challenge over an entire series.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 11:04 PM

Due to Miami's frontcourt I'm not sure they can both only just have real good games. They both need to play great in most games if this series happens. Lakers frontcourt could be that good that they need to play great to win.

They have to play great, but not for four games. LA has an advantage down low, but I'm not sure it's that extreme. The more I think about it, I would say Miami's advantage on the wing is probably greater than LA's advantage up front.

You can argue Wade and Kobe are pretty even, but LeBron is far superior to Artest or Barnes. Gasol is better than Bosh, but it's yet to be seen by how much. I think both could probably score on the other fairly easily.

To me, the most important match up might be Bynum vs. Anthony/Z. Bynum probably needs to win the match up big.

All Net

08-30-2010, 11:06 PM

The Lakers would probably try to stick Kobe on Miller and let him conserve energy. Then they can let Artest and Barnes cover Wade & LeBron. The thing is you want Fisher on the floor in the fourth quarter and I don't think you want him covering Wade. Kobe's getting older and we've seen how chasing Ray Allen around has worn on him in the past. Wade would be a much bigger challenge over an entire series.

He would be a tough cover but L.A should get away with having Artest and Barnes at the same time at stages. Depends who is hot.

barbaroi

08-30-2010, 11:07 PM

44.1 ppg is nothing to brag about if that's the department where you have your advantage in.

Wade and LeBron by themselves will most likely average more than that. I'm saying that if the Lakers want to maximize their advantage, they should make feeding the post their number one priority on offense. However with a guy like Kobe who has a chance to catch Jordan, you won't be able to get Pau/LO/Bynum as many touches as you would like.

In the playoffs Pau had 13, and Bynum had 6.5 FGA's per game compared to 22 of Kobe's. I don't see that changing in the big's favor next year.
Um, 44 + Kobe's 29 is 73 points. Artest, fisher, blake, Barnes, Sasha, and Shannon would then only need to provide about 25 points combined because when the lakers scored 100+ they won 89% of their games.

In the playoffs Pau had 13 FGA (same as regular season) and Odom had 9 (same as regular season). The only reason Bynum didn't get as many attempts was because he was injured. Over the first 5 games of the playoffs before he tweaked his leg he was averaging 10 FGA, the same as the regular season. Bynum's shots were eaten up by Artest and Fisher, not Kobe.

Bring-Your-Js

08-30-2010, 11:09 PM

44.1 ppg is nothing to brag about if that's the department where you have your advantage in.

Wade and LeBron by themselves will most likely average more than that. I'm saying that if the Lakers want to maximize their advantage, they should make feeding the post their number one priority on offense. However with a guy like Kobe who has a chance to catch Jordan, you won't be able to get Pau/LO/Bynum as many touches as you would like.

In the playoffs Pau had 13, and Bynum had 6.5 FGA's per game compared to 22 of Kobe's. I don't see that changing in the big's favor next year.

I think it's a legitimate concern and i'm a lakers fan. kobe honestly scared the daylights out of me twice in 2010 finals: his 2nd and 3rd quarter shooting spree in game 3 and obviously the first half of game 7. In games 1, 4, 5, 6 i thought he was incredibly effective and played like an mvp; the difference now is that kobe will still go Hero Mode but not to the extent that it'll cost them the damn game as we saw in the 4th setting up fisher in game 3; crashing the boards and playing great d in game 7.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 11:11 PM

He would be a tough cover but L.A should get away with having Artest and Barnes at the same time at stages. Depends who is hot.

What I keep coming back to is that LA has to adjust to Miami and not the other way around. That, and I don't have as much faith in Artest/Barnes as you do. Barnes might be able to stay with Wade, but I don't like him on LeBron. LeBron eats up thin defenders. Artest does a good job on finesse players like Melo or Pierce, but I don't know if he can stay in front of LeBron for four games and he would be horrible against Wade.

All Net

08-30-2010, 11:14 PM

What I keep coming back to is that LA has to adjust to Miami and not the other way around. That, and I don't have as much faith in Artest/Barnes as you do. Barnes might be able to stay with Wade, but I don't like him on LeBron. LeBron eats up thin defenders. Artest does a good job on finesse players like Melo or Pierce, but I don't know if he can stay in front of LeBron for four games and he would be horrible against Wade.

I'm confident they can make them work and even contain them at times but obviously nobody can stop them.

That said I don't think Miami has a chance at stopping Gasol or even Bynum if he is healthy. Lakers at least have options defensively..Miami to me inside don't.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 11:21 PM

I'm confident they can make them work and even contain them at times but obviously nobody can stop them.

Okay, but what happens on the other end? Offensively I guess the idea would still be for Kobe and Gasol to be the main options, but does that work for the Lakers? Maybe Gasol scores well against Bosh, but how effective can Artest and Kobe be against the defense of LeBron and Wade?

I actually think you might throw LeBron out on Kobe. Wade can kind of roam off of Artest and Kobe's going to giving up size, speed and strength to LeBron. That takes away a great deal of Kobe's post up game. Not to mention you could run a Wade/LeBron double on Kobe down low. That could be murder.

All Net

08-30-2010, 11:24 PM

Okay, but what happens on the other end? Offensively I guess the idea would still be for Kobe and Gasol to be the main options, but does that work for the Lakers? Maybe Gasol scores well against Bosh, but how effective can Artest and Kobe be against the defense of LeBron and Wade?

I actually think you might throw LeBron out on Kobe. Wade can kind of roam off of Artest and Kobe's going to giving up size, speed and strength to LeBron. That takes away a great deal of Kobe's post up game. Not to mention you could run a Wade/LeBron double on Kobe down low. That could be murder.

Lebron and Wade's main defensive strength are passing lanes and chasing down. Their one on one isn't anything to be overly concerned with honestly. Kobe will have his way if he decided to go into the post more.

Bring-Your-Js

08-30-2010, 11:27 PM

Okay, but what happens on the other end? Offensively I guess the idea would still be for Kobe and Gasol to be the main options, but does that work for the Lakers? Maybe Gasol scores well against Bosh, but how effective can Artest and Kobe be against the defense of LeBron and Wade?

I actually think you might throw LeBron out on Kobe. Wade can kind of roam off of Artest and Kobe's going to giving up size, speed and strength to LeBron. That takes away a great deal of Kobe's post up game. Not to mention you could run a Wade/LeBron double on Kobe down low. That could be murder.

It would probably work, and you do whatever it takes, period. But man, that would be just be... Ugh, duly noted. Terrible really in the spirit of the game.

Irrelevant i know, but jesus.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 11:29 PM

Lebron and Wade's main defensive strength are passing lanes and chasing down. Their one on one isn't anything to be overly concerned with honestly. Kobe will have his way if he decided to go into the post more.

Completely disagree. Wade and LeBron can be as good as anyone on the other side of the ball when they commit to defense. With having to carry much less of the offensive load, I think they'll play much better defensively.

As far as I remember, Kobe actually seems to have problems when LeBron is on him. He just has no psychical advantages and LeBron has them all.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 11:31 PM

It would probably work, and you do whatever it takes, period. But man, that would be just be... Ugh, duly noted. Terrible really in the spirit of the game.

Irrelevant i know, but jesus.

There are going to be moments like that. Where it just seems really unfair. The one I keep think of though is the ability to have one of Wade or LeBron on the floor for 48 minutes. I mean, how do match up with that? Especially during the regular season. No team remotely can...

All Net

08-30-2010, 11:33 PM

Completely disagree. Wade and LeBron can be as good as anyone on the other side of the ball when they commit to defense. With having to carry much less of the offensive load, I think they'll play much better defensively.

As far as I remember, Kobe actually seems to have problems when LeBron is on him. He just has no psychical advantages and LeBron has them all.

Guess we will see, Lebron and Wade are good defenders but not good enough to shut down anybody like Kobe. They get alot of steals and breakaway points but I don't remember them shutting down anybody. Maybe as a duo it will bring out the best of them both defensively.

Bring-Your-Js

08-30-2010, 11:34 PM

There are going to be moments like that. Where it just seems really unfair. The one I keep think of though is the ability to have one of Wade or LeBron on the floor for 48 minutes. I mean, how do match up with that? Especially during the regular season. No team remotely can...

I just meant really in the context that both of those guys have been called better than kobe in recent years, to send doubles would be a form of cowardice. Not saying it wouldnt be within in the rules. But if there was ever a time to be man to man, this is it. let kobe meet his match, and get the proper isolation the game can be great for with that type of talent on the floor.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 11:36 PM

Guess we will see, Lebron and Wade are good defenders but not good enough to shut down anybody like Kobe. They get alot of steals and breakaway points but I don't remember them shutting down anybody. Maybe as a duo it will bring out the best of them both defensively.

LeBron had Paul Pierce nailed down in the series this last season. Wade's harder to recall because he's had to carry so much of the offensive load over the last several years. He did play really, really good defense in the Olympics though.

I don't think they'd shutdown Kobe, but they could surely give him problems ala Pierce and Posey in 2008.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 11:38 PM

I just meant really in the context that both of those guys have been called better than kobe in recent years, to send doubles would be a form of cowardice. Not saying it wouldnt be within in the rules. But if there was ever a time to be man to man, this is it. let kobe meet his match, and get the proper isolation the game can be great for with that type of talent on the floor.

See, that's just drama though. It wouldn't bother me if it was an effective defensive scheme. They've got two of the three best players, why shouldn't they use them like that? No different than Jordan and Pippen...

All Net

08-30-2010, 11:38 PM

LeBron had Paul Pierce nailed down in the series this last season. Wade's harder to recall because he's had to carry so much of the offensive load over the last several years. He did play really, really good defense in the Olympics though.

I don't think they'd shutdown Kobe, but they could surely give him problems ala Pierce and Posey in 2008.

I think the chances are far higher for the Lakers to give Lebron and Wade more problems than they will give Kobe honestly.

Kurosawa0

08-30-2010, 11:40 PM

I think the chances are far higher for the Lakers to give Lebron and Wade more problems than they will give Kobe honestly.

I don't see how you get there.

All Net

08-30-2010, 11:44 PM

I don't see how you get there.

Artest and Barnes for one won't need to use as much energy that Lebron and Wade are going to need to offensively and defensively. They will be fresher and Artest has proven he can stop or contain top permeter players. He did a pretty decent job on Lebron last year and Wade has never really lit L.A up. I for one don't think that much of Lebron and Wade overall as one on one defenders..they are pretty good but certainly not shutdown worthy. That applies more to Wade than Lebron.

Bring-Your-Js

08-30-2010, 11:54 PM

See, that's just drama though. It wouldn't bother me if it was an effective defensive scheme. They've got two of the three best players, why shouldn't they use them like that? No different than Jordan and Pippen...

They should. If they do, and kobe somehow succeeds anyway and has a great series, anybody thinking it wont greatly enhance his legacy is mistaken. And no it's nothing of a crazy jordan comparison but images of bryant raining impossible shots out of lebron and wade double teams and winning the damn series, due to frontcourt play or not, will last pretty much forever. not to sensationalize it but ive just seen it happen before.

gts

08-30-2010, 11:57 PM

All Net

08-31-2010, 12:31 AM

the lakers would love nothing more to have the heats best two defenders tied up on kobe....

Would certainly be playing into Phil Jackson's hands if it happened.

G-train

08-31-2010, 01:20 AM

yeaaaman

08-31-2010, 01:22 AM

I think the chances are far higher for the Lakers to give Lebron and Wade more problems than they will give Kobe honestly.

I honestly don't get how you figure that?

opps

08-31-2010, 01:50 AM

OKC fans said this.

Jazz fans said this.

Suns fans said this.

Magic fans said this.

Celtic fans said this.

Now

Heat fans are saying this.

Basically, since when havent the Lakers had a huge size advantage. Even against the Suns (who I thought could contain us somewhat because they arent super undersized ... but we even dominated them).

Us Lakers fans are just gonna have to wait till June until people gain some common sense.

All Net

08-31-2010, 02:05 AM

Pretty sure Wade/Lebron/Miller rotating on Bryant will have little impact. He will get his 28.

I personally believe that the Heat will be the best defensive team in the NBA which I why we will beat the Lakers in the finals.

Wade/Lebron are excellent, Haslem is great, Anthony is very good, Bosh is good, Mario is decent and a great stealer but most importantly Spo always gets this entire squad defending at a high intensity.

Miami won't be close to the defensive team the Lakers are. The Heat have no real size or length. That is one of the key quailties that make teams like Lakers and Celtics so good defensively. Miami may be good defensively but looking at their roster I don't think they will be great.

Peteballa

08-31-2010, 08:13 AM

Miami won't be close to the defensive team the Lakers are. The Heat have no real size or length. That is one of the key quailties that make teams like Lakers and Celtics so good defensively. Miami may be good defensively but looking at their roster I don't think they will be great.

I watched the Heat all the time last year, and I can tell you this; Miami is, and will be, a top 5 defensive team in the league. The team defense ran by Spoelstra is extraordinary.

Papaya Petee

08-31-2010, 08:26 AM

Miami won't be close to the defensive team the Lakers are. The Heat have no real size or length. That is one of the key quailties that make teams like Lakers and Celtics so good defensively. Miami may be good defensively but looking at their roster I don't think they will be great.
Last year we were arguably the best defensive team in the NBA with a cripple J'O and mister I don't play defense Beasley in our starting lineup...

Ikill

08-31-2010, 08:44 AM

Chris Bosh isn't really 6'11". Maybe 6'10". And it's mostly neck. If he had a regular human neck he'd be, like, 6'7", tops.
no i would consider him 7 feet he's 6'11 1/2 with shoes and he has a 7'4 wingspan and is probably the same weight as gasol

All Net

08-31-2010, 10:59 AM

Last year we were arguably the best defensive team in the NBA with a cripple J'O and mister I don't play defense Beasley in our starting lineup...

As I said they will be good and even though defensive their stats were decent for who they had at the end of the day it wasn't the playoffs. In the playoffs the game changes and when it comes to a possible finals match-up will that frontline be able to get the key stops inside when they need them? can they control the boards and avoid 2nd chance points? It's tough to see that interior being able to contain quailty bigs. Permeter wise they should be fine but inside is where the problem may lie.

All Net

08-31-2010, 11:01 AM

no i would consider him 7 feet he's 6'11 1/2 with shoes and he has a 7'4 wingspan and is probably the same weight as gasol

Bosh is certainly no taller than 6'10. He has a long reach though so his wingspan would be pretty high.

Ikill

08-31-2010, 11:23 AM

Bosh is certainly no taller than 6'10. He has a long reach though so his wingspan would be pretty high.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chris-Bosh-1740/ check it out his combine numbers

ImmortalD24

08-31-2010, 11:40 AM

Bosh looks legit..

http://i38.tinypic.com/125qqlv.jpg

Bosh can defend Gasol outside and inside the paint, and he'll also have help from some of the best perimeter help defenders to make Gasol think twice in the post whenever he's putting the ball on the floor or going up for a shot with Wade or LeBron coming from the weakside and packing his shot or going for the steal.

People don't remember how much Gasol struggled against the Heat defensive scheme last year.. they played him perfectly and collapsed on him whenever he got the ball going for the easy steal. Wade in crunch time packed Gasol 3 times in one possession.

Could you imagine how much havoc LeBron can create by playing off of Ron Ron?

ImmortalD24

08-31-2010, 12:04 PM

The Heat can give us huge problems whenever Odom comes off the bench or closes games by putting LeBron on Odom and have Odom guard LeBron at the other end and milk that mismatch.

PG: House
SG: Wade
SF: Miller
PF: LeBron
C: Bosh

vs

PG: Fisher
SG: Kobe
SF: Artest
PF: Odom
C: Gasol

That Heat lineup is really scary..

Papaya Petee

08-31-2010, 12:18 PM

As I said they will be good and even though defensive their stats were decent for who they had at the end of the day it wasn't the playoffs. In the playoffs the game changes and when it comes to a possible finals match-up will that frontline be able to get the key stops inside when they need them? can they control the boards and avoid 2nd chance points? It's tough to see that interior being able to contain quailty bigs. Permeter wise they should be fine but inside is where the problem may lie.

I pretty much agree with all of this, but I think we can do just fine. Udonis Haslem guarded centers for almost a whole season, and Joel Anthony did too, of course every team will have their weakness, and this one is just one of ours, hopefully we can get Erik Dampier.

All Net

08-31-2010, 02:28 PM

I pretty much agree with all of this, but I think we can do just fine. Udonis Haslem guarded centers for almost a whole season, and Joel Anthony did too, of course every team will have their weakness, and this one is just one of ours, hopefully we can get Erik Dampier.

Dampier would be a good addition but all signs point to him being traded not waived. Cats have said they won't release him as it would be a bad basketball decision.

alanLA92

08-31-2010, 02:33 PM

length and size is not the issue for the heat against the lakers its the toughness the lakers front found out the hard way in the 08 finals and the heat may have to this yr

enought heat this lakers that talk its f***ing Augest and the finals isnt until 10 more months and there are way too much basketball to happen during that time

All Net

08-31-2010, 02:37 PM

enought heat this lakers that talk its f***ing Augest and the finals isnt until 10 more months and there are way too much basketball to happen during that time

This is the whole point of basketball forums, whats the point in debating topics otherwise?

Lakerlove420

08-31-2010, 02:54 PM

PG: House
SG: Wade
SF: Miller
PF: LeBron
C: Bosh

vs

PG: Fisher
SG: Kobe
SF: Artest
PF: Odom
C: Gasol

That Lakers lineup is really scary..
and they're straight proven champions too ..

(fixed ..)

alanLA92

08-31-2010, 04:49 PM

This is the whole point of basketball forums, whats the point in debating topics otherwise?

theres a difference between dicussing one thing and to discuss it in a new thread everyday the problem is people are arguing about something that is proven and something that cant be proven till the season begins

Kurosawa0

08-31-2010, 04:51 PM

theres a difference between dicussing one thing and to discuss it in a new thread everyday the problem is people are arguing about something that is proven and something that cant be proven till the season begins

This is all hypothetical and it's the most interesting topic in basketball.

New York Knicks

08-31-2010, 04:55 PM

theres a difference between dicussing one thing and to discuss it in a new thread everyday the problem is people are arguing about something that is proven and something that cant be proven till the season begins
Every topic is hypothetical. Otherwise, it would get 0 replies.

All Net

08-31-2010, 04:59 PM

Every topic is hypothetical. Otherwise, it would get 0 replies.

This

ISH would be far more boring if Lakers/Heat wasn't discussed.

alanLA92

08-31-2010, 05:00 PM

fine sorry I had to voice my opinion and feel that its pointless to talk about the heat's front even though its be unproven and causes chaos in the forums :banana:

I guess I'll join in: lakers will outplay and would beat the heat front in any series :D

alanLA92

08-31-2010, 05:01 PM

This

ISH would be far more boring if Lakers/Heat wasn't discussed.

not really since we could discuss other matchups but dont want to argue

Knoe Itawl

08-31-2010, 05:33 PM

Ahh, Jackass3 showing he's right in line with such valued, respected posters as The Logo, Bladers, Desperado, etc. etc. I honestly wonder what goes on in these Bryant wackjobs' worlds that they worship a man like they do, shutting down any part of their brain that deals with logic to do so. It really is amazing, from a sociological standpoint. What makes lonely, isolated psychos develop an obsession with a movie star, pro athlete, politician, etc. It's funny seeing that even Laker fans hate these clowns.

On topic, many of the Miami bashers have gone overboard in downplaying Miami's frontline. They have size on Miami, which is important. They have a very skilled frontline player in Bosh. Not to mention the likes of Bron, Wade, Miller, etc. which will help in neutralizing any advantages LA may have down low. LA has never had to deal with a backcourt like Miami has. They will be fine, especially if Riley makes some more moves, as expected.

As for Bynum, anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that his PRESENCE down low, with Pau and Odom was a killer in the playoffs. It's not just about his stats.

All Net

08-31-2010, 06:05 PM

not really since we could discuss other matchups but dont want to argue

Difference is this are the two main favourites heading into this season it will always be the main match-up we expect in the finals.

Kurosawa0

08-31-2010, 06:10 PM

Difference is this are the two main favourites heading into this season it will always be the main match-up we expect in the finals.

That and LeBron and Kobe are the two best players in the league. They're going to be the main conversation for a long time to come. They have been for years.

Peteballa

08-31-2010, 07:43 PM

That and LeBron and Kobe are the two best players in the league. They're going to be the main conversation for a long time to come. They have been for years.

Yeah. It's sort of a best player of 2000's vs best of 2010's...

InfiniteBaskets

08-31-2010, 09:30 PM

\

PG: House
SG: Wade
SF: Miller
PF: LeBron
C: Bosh

vs

PG: Fisher
SG: Kobe
SF: Artest
PF: Odom
C: Gasol

That Heat lineup is really scary..

I'd say the scariest Heat lineup would be

PG: LeBron
SG: Wade
SF: Miller
PF: Bosh
C: Anthony

What would be the ideal Laker line up to match up?

StacksOnDeck

08-31-2010, 09:39 PM

As for Bynum, anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that his PRESENCE down low, with Pau and Odom was a killer in the playoffs. It's not just about his stats.

Smartest thing this retard has said.

ImmortalD24

08-31-2010, 09:57 PM

I'd say the scariest Heat lineup would be

PG: LeBron
SG: Wade
SF: Miller
PF: Bosh
C: Anthony

What would be the ideal Laker line up to match up?

Artest on LeBron
Kobe on Wade
Barnes on Miller

:confusedshrug:

Scoooter

08-31-2010, 10:04 PM

Artest on LeBron
Kobe on Wade
Barnes on Miller

:confusedshrug:
Defensively, yeah, but I'm not sure you'd want Kobe bringing the ball up court for extended periods. Especially if D-Wade starts to get handsy. Kobe's a capable ball handler, but not as capable as he tends to think he is. Especially if his hand is still messed up.

But on the whole, yeah, Lakers match up nicely. And that would be a hellaciously tall lineup.

ImmortalD24

08-31-2010, 10:08 PM

gts

08-31-2010, 10:20 PM

Defensively, yeah, but I'm not sure you'd want Kobe bringing the ball up court for extended periods. Especially if D-Wade starts to get handsy. Kobe's a capable ball handler, but not as capable as he tends to think he is. Especially if his hand is still messed up.

But on the whole, yeah, Lakers match up nicely. And that would be a hellaciously tall lineup.phil would exploit that big time..

lakers just love when a team wastes their best defender on a meaningless task..
that's why they have so many different looks at initiating the offense, they pull a teams best defender away from where he can do the most damage..

it's one reason the lakers or bulls never have a player rack up large assist numbers because the system is designed to take a player out of the defense from the start...

Scoooter

09-01-2010, 04:58 AM

Odom and Artest can bring the ball up just fine.
I've been saying for a while that they should just move Lamar to PG. He's entirely capable. Physically, at least.

ImmortalD24

09-01-2010, 11:30 AM

I've been saying for a while that they should just move Lamar to PG. He's entirely capable. Physically, at least.
Now thats just stupid.

Odom brings the ball up as a Power Forward. His best attribute is taking less mobile big guys off the dribble, and rebounding getting easy points off of put-backs being the garbage guy.

Him masquerading as a PG with the two bigs on the floor will not only negate his best skill-set, but also create a ton of congestion on the floor. The triangle offense needs guys that are a threat from the perimeter, spot up shooting is one of the most desired skills needed for a role perimeter player in the tri.. 2nd being defense (the average PG and SF can make Odom look silly in isolation). Odom doesn't help in both aspects needed for that position.

There's a reason why Phil hasn't listened to you people that want Odom to play PG to SF with Gasol and Bynum - It simply does not work.

All Net

09-01-2010, 09:54 PM

phil would exploit that big time..

lakers just love when a team wastes their best defender on a meaningless task..
that's why they have so many different looks at initiating the offense, they pull a teams best defender away from where he can do the most damage..

it's one reason the lakers or bulls never have a player rack up large assist numbers because the system is designed to take a player out of the defense from the start...

Agreed, that kind of gameplan would totally play into Phil's hands.