Jordan Switching Hands

[jstern]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4jBKlL66Lg&feature=grec_index

I never actually saw the revers angle replay. Watching it live it was a lot harder than I thought. And on the reverse angle replay I can see why he changed it, since Perk motioned that he was going to jump.

Never really cared for this play, but watching it live puts it in better perspective. I can see why it's so famous, considering how it must have been watching it live, after 12 straight FGs.

[Batz]

It's only famous because of Marv Albert.

[jstern]

It's only famous because of Marv Albert.
So the video a couple of times, didn't even noticed Marv.

He's kinky.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I never understood the big deal about this move. It was overrated and unnecessary. I hate Marv Albert too. You suck Marv.

[Batz]

So the video a couple of times, didn't even noticed Marv.

He's kinky.
His voiceover on the play is why.

[jstern]

I never understood the big deal about this move. It was overrated and unnecessary. I hate Marv Albert too. You suck Marv.
Look at the reverse angle, clearly Perkins set up to jump at the last second. Unless Jordan can read mind, his reflexes are going to cause him to switch hands to avoid getting blocked.

Think of Kobe faking a jump shot. Even though he didn't actually shoot the ball, his opponent jumped, thinking that he was. Similar situation, Jordan thought Perkins was going to jump, just like Kobe's opponent thought he was going to shoot.

By the way, Marv once said, "A big black guy once held my head, when I was down on my knees." I'm not sure what he meant by that, but I think he was talking about his hair not falling because it's a weave.

[joyner82]

it's not a difficult play and i would imagine just about every nba shooting guard and pull it off..although i will give him credit because it's a smart play yet vastly overrated

[jstern]

it's not a difficult play and i would imagine just about every nba shooting guard and pull it off..although i will give him credit because it's a smart play yet vastly overrated
It's not just the play, but the situation. Watching it live, Jordan being extremely on fire hitting so far 12 FGs in a row, and then looking like he's showing off.

Lebron did a similar play, they compared it to Jordan's side by side on NBA.com. It wasn't even close. Probably cause Lebron jumps off one leg. But it didn't have the Jordan style.

[che guevara]

I never understood the big deal about this move. It was overrated and unnecessary. I hate Marv Albert too. You suck Marv.
You're not serious, are you? Marv is easily the best NBA play by play guy.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Perkins was a crap defender. He basically shuffled his feet and kinda half ass pretended to move his arms. He was no where near Jordan and he never really tried to contest the shot. I've seen Kobe hit a left handed 3 pointer in a game so I'm not impressed with Jordan's fake hustle. Or how about this.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/misc/Sports/2009Finalsmove.gif

[jstern]

Perkins was a crap defender. He basically shuffled his feet and kinda half ass pretended to move his arms. He was no where near Jordan and he never really tried to contest the shot. I've seen Kobe hit a left handed 3 pointer in a game so I'm not impressed with Jordan's fake hustle. Or how about this.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/misc/Sports/2009Finalsmove.gif
That play doesn't look as good as Jordan's in slow motion, so it never reached the same level of fame. Plus it was more of a circus shot, then an artistic play. That Kobe play is the type you see on the playground often by regular people, while the Jordan one requires a lot of physical ability, like being able to palm the ball, dunk, body control, and do a left handed layup, which most people have trouble with. Plus people who know a lot about basketball might not like that play by Kobe, since he wasn't successful in creating a better shot for himself.

[Kurosawa0]

One of the greatest plays ever.

[Phong]

Hummm.. straight line to the basket uncontested lay-up vs. splitting a double team and going head-to-head against the DPOY and making him look like a fool.

Tough choice.

[Batz]

That play doesn't look as good as Jordan's in slow motion, so it never reached the same level of fame. Plus it was more of a circus shot, then an artistic play. That Kobe play is the type you see on the playground often by regular people, while the Jordan one requires a lot of physical ability, like being able to palm the ball, dunk, body control, and do a left handed layup, which most people have trouble with. Plus people who know a lot about basketball might not like that play by Kobe, since he wasn't successful in creating a better shot for himself.
It never reached the level of fame because of Mike Breen's late and weak reaction. But Kobe's play is better and far more difficult.


Hummm.. straight line to the basket uncontested lay-up vs. splitting a double team and going head-to-head against the DPOY and making him look like a fool.

Tough choice.
srsly

[stickfigure87]

maybe because i wasn't old enough to really watch this live (i was 3), but i don't understand the hype of it either. i get that it's 13 FG's in a row, and probably the prettiest in the string of fire.

but as a single play? it just doesn't stack up, imho.

[StacksOnDeck]

Overrated play. I can name 10 SGs easily that can do that right now.

[plowking]

That play is a nothing special. I've never understood the hype behind it. He didn't need to do it, he could have finished with a dunk, which from that distance honestly would have been a far more spectacular play.

And yeah, Kobe's move is better.

[necya]

the kobe play is more difficult.
MJ's is unecessary. he could have lay in the ball with the right hand. that's phil's face means i think. but in the context of the game, MJ was giving the lesson, he had something like 14/19 FG...just jordanesque!
and yeah OP, the other angle make the move soooo beautiful.

[Phong]

i don't understand the hype of it either.Didn't you pay attention to what jstern said?

It's because it's an "artistic play".. whatever that means.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

That play doesn't look as good as Jordan's in slow motion, so it never reached the same level of fame. Plus it was more of a circus shot, then an artistic play. That Kobe play is the type you see on the playground often by regular people, while the Jordan one requires a lot of physical ability, like being able to palm the ball, dunk, body control, and do a left handed layup, which most people have trouble with.

Let me get this straight, you are saying that Kobe's move is done often on the playground and a left handed layup most people have difficulty with. lol

I think you're nuts. Kobe's move was more difficult, it was contested by Dwight frickin Howard and it required a ton of body control. Jordan switched hands with nobody near him, whoopty-doo. The angle on Jordan's play makes it look harder than it was. It was un contested and unecessary.

[Desperado]

One of the greatest plays ever.

Maybe to the Space Jam generation but anyone else will tell you that move is vastly overrated.

It wasn't necessary, and its honestly not that difficult.

It was just an uncontested layup with A.C. Green and Sam Perkins standing nearby.

[Kurosawa0]

Maybe to the Space Jam generation but anyone else will tell you that move is vastly overrated.

It wasn't necessary, and its honestly not that difficult.

It was just an uncontested layup with A.C. Green and Sam Perkins standing nearby.

It's an iconic moment for the greatest ever. The Kobe generation just can't understand.

[Desperado]

Perkins was a crap defender. He basically shuffled his feet and kinda half ass pretended to move his arms. He was no where near Jordan and he never really tried to contest the shot. I've seen Kobe hit a left handed 3 pointer in a game so I'm not impressed with Jordan's fake hustle. Or how about this.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/misc/Sports/2009Finalsmove.gif


Kobe's falling, double-clutch banker over the Defensive Player of the Year Dwight Howard, who was all over him was way more difficult.

But the only problem with Kobe's shot was that it was Mike Breen and his dead commentary that called the play.

If it was Marv Albert giving the "Oh! A Spectacular Move by Kobe Bryant!!!" then it would've not just looked better but also sounded better

As much as people don't realize Marv's commentary on Jordan's move made it even more special than it already is

[jstern]

Didn't you pay attention to what jstern said?

It's because it's an "artistic play".. whatever that means.
Even I didn't really know what that mean, but I just looked it up on google. Here's the definition.


ar

[Kobe 4 The Win]

It's an iconic moment for the greatest ever. The Kobe generation just can't understand.

I'm a member of both generaltions. I do understand. Both moves were cool but with a little perspective I think it's clear that Kobe's move was harder and better. Kobe's move just didn't have a nut-hugging announcer screaming how spectacular it was. Over-rated, and anybody that's not a Jordan fanboy should concur.

[jstern]

Let me get this straight, you are saying that Kobe's move is done often on the playground and a left handed layup most people have difficulty with. lol

I think you're nuts. Kobe's move was more difficult, it was contested by Dwight frickin Howard and it required a ton of body control. Jordan switched hands with nobody near him, whoopty-doo. The angle on Jordan's play makes it look harder than it was. It was un contested and unecessary.
Kobe's shot was more difficult for the average NBA player, but none the less it's one of those typical circus shots that you see often in the playgrounds. The average person can relate to being able to do a shot similar to the one Kobe did, but the Jordan one was way outside their physical capabilities. So in that sense while it might be harder for the average NBA player to do the Kobe shot, the average person can recreate it with enough tries, but they can't re created the Jordan one, since it required a lot more athletic ability. Hope you follow the logic of my post.

The Jordan shot was mostly skills, while the Kobe, while you certainly have to have skills, it still a shot that requires some luck. I'm sure Kobe wouldn't be able to make that shot over and over again, since it did require some luck.

It's not about which shot is harder to the media, but which one was more artistic.

[Batz]

It's an iconic moment for the greatest ever. The Kobe generation just can't understand.
You're not making a good name for Jordan generation here though.

[StacksOnDeck]

But the only problem with Kobe's shot was that it was Mike Breen and his dead commentary that called the play.

Not sure if this true but I wouldn't doubt it, I read somewhere that JVG asked Breen and Marc Jackson to tone it down with the Lakers love because they were playing his brother.

[Phong]

Kobe's shot was more difficult for the average NBA player, but none the less it's one of those typical circus shots that you see often in the playground. The average person can relate to being able to do a shot similar to the one Kobe did, but the Jordan one was way outside their physical capabilities. So in that sense while it might be harder for the average NBA player to do the Kobe shot, the average person can recreate it with enough tries, but they can't re created the Jordan one, since it required a lot more athletic ability. Hope you follow the logic of my post.

The Jordan shot was mostly skills, while the Kobe, while you certainly have to have skills, it still a shot that requires some luck. I'm sure Kobe wouldn't be able to make that shot over and over again, since it did require some luck.

It's not about which shot is harder to the media, but which one was more artistic.What is so extremely hard that only physically gifted player can get the ball in the paint while being all alone, jump, switch hand and make a left handed uncontested layup? Does it take a lot of skills to run in a straight line with nobody blocking your path? Does it take a lot of skills to go for an uncontested lay-ups? The only "hard" part is maybe switching hands.

As for Kobe, dribbling and splitting a double team, jumping of the wrong foot, moving laterally in the air, double-clutching and dodging the flailing arms of the DPOY and making the bank shot is luck?

:facepalm

[plowking]

Kobe's shot was more difficult for the average NBA player, but none the less it's one of those typical circus shots that you see often in the playgrounds. The average person can relate to being able to do a shot similar to the one Kobe did, but the Jordan one was way outside their physical capabilities. So in that sense while it might be harder for the average NBA player to do the Kobe shot, the average person can recreate it with enough tries, but they can't re created the Jordan one, since it required a lot more athletic ability. Hope you follow the logic of my post.

The Jordan shot was mostly skills, while the Kobe, while you certainly have to have skills, it still a shot that requires some luck. I'm sure Kobe wouldn't be able to make that shot over and over again, since it did require some luck.

It's not about which shot is harder to the media, but which one was more artistic.

Kobe read the defense and changed his shot up. Jordan did it for no reason and put himself in a worse position.

If anything, from that I'd say Jordan's was somewhat luck, where as Kobe's was pure basketball talent and skill.

[Batz]

Not sure if this true but I wouldn't doubt it, I read somewhere that JVG asked Breen and Marc Jackson to tone it down with the Lakers love because they were playing his brother.
I doubt they listened. Mike was just late because Marc was going on about Kobe making plays or something which caused Breen to be late. I doubt they listened JVG. Laker Love = $$$

[jstern]

What is so extremely hard that only physically gifted player can get the ball in the paint while being all alone, jump, switch hand and make a left handed uncontested layup? Does it take a lot of skills to run in a straight line with nobody blocking your path? Does it take a lot of skills to go for an uncontested lay-ups?

As for Kobe, dribbling and splitting a double team, jumping of the wrong foot, moving laterally in the air, double-clutching and dodging the flailing arms of the DPOY and making the bank shot is luck?

:facepalm
I don't think you understood my point, so I won't bother.

I like the name dropping like, "The DPOY." It makes it sound like you're desperate to prove that Kobe's was better.

[Phong]

I don't think you understood my point, so I won't bother.

I like the name dropping like, "The DPOY." It makes it sound like you're desperate to prove that Kobe's was better.I'm not desperately trying to prove an uncontested lay-up can only be done by the greatest of greatests and call it "artistic".

[Courtside View]

Kobe read the defense and changed his shot up. Jordan did it for no reason and put himself in a worse position.

If anything, from that I'd say Jordan's was somewhat luck, where as Kobe's was pure basketball talent and skill.

Wow, you're aligning yourself with Kobe Trolls? Not really a good look. First of all, if you look at the actual PLAY, Jordan obviously thinks Perkins is going to jump, which he motions like he's going to do briefly but doesn't. Jordan's reflexes cause him to alter the shot in anticipation of this. It's really quite simple, unless you think Jordan would have rather made the move more complex over going in for an emphatic slam.

Lastly, why is it that whenever there's a Jordan play, these Kobe Trolls come flocking like the jackasses they are? When I see a thread about Kobe plays, I IGNORE it. I don't feel the need to spam the thread with how much better Jordan was.

Oh, that's right. Most of these guys are lonely nutcases who worship a celebrity as a God, that's why.

[Desperado]

Kobe's shot was more difficult for the average NBA player, but none the less it's one of those typical circus shots that you see often in the playgrounds. The average person can relate to being able to do a shot similar to the one Kobe did, but the Jordan one was way outside their physical capabilities. So in that sense while it might be harder for the average NBA player to do the Kobe shot, the average person can recreate it with enough tries, but they can't re created the Jordan one, since it required a lot more athletic ability. Hope you follow the logic of my post.

The Jordan shot was mostly skills, while the Kobe, while you certainly have to have skills, it still a shot that requires some luck. I'm sure Kobe wouldn't be able to make that shot over and over again, since it did require some luck.

It's not about which shot is harder to the media, but which one was more artistic.


Please, I've have seen lots of player's do a much better layup than that one, but since his name is Michael Jordan, it get's over hyped! Also like I mentioned before it had Marv Albert with the ''OH A SPECTACULAR MOVE!''

Honestly the hand switch against the Lakers has to be the most overrated highlight play in NBA history, even if it was ''iconic''.

The Jordan layup against the Nets when he went between the multiple defenders was way better than that overrated, unnecessary, uncontested switch hand layup against the Lakers.....

[Pointguard]

That's the thing you have to understand with Jordan... he's poetry in motion. There is a grace and style to him that isn't in other players. He starts with his left hand, goes back to his right, and back to his left. At this point in the game Jordan was elevating into his own atmosphere - a Picasso ascending on the Garden floor

Marve's call was right on. To me, he is light years ahead of the other guys because he calls the game in context. It this play happens near the beginning of the game its a different call. But I stood up before I heard Marv's call so yeah, there was some excitement in the air. Listen to the audience.

[plowking]

Wow, you're aligning yourself with Kobe Trolls? Not really a good look. First of all, if you look at the actual PLAY, Jordan obviously thinks Perkins is going to jump, which he motions like he's going to do briefly but doesn't. Jordan's reflexes cause him to alter the shot in anticipation of this. It's really quite simple, unless you think Jordan would have rather made the move more complex over going in for an emphatic slam.

Lastly, why is it that whenever there's a Jordan play, these Kobe Trolls come flocking like the jackasses they are? When I see a thread about Kobe plays, I IGNORE it. I don't feel the need to spam the thread with how much better Jordan was.

Oh, that's right. Most of these guys are lonely nutcases who worship a celebrity as a God, that's why.

Aligning myself with Kobe trolls? No...
Just commenting that one play was clearly better than another.

[jstern]

Kobe read the defense and changed his shot up. Jordan did it for no reason and put himself in a worse position.

If anything, from that I'd say Jordan's was somewhat luck, where as Kobe's was pure basketball talent and skill.
Look at the reverse angle replay. If you were in the same position as Jordan you would have switched hands to, thinking that Perkins was going to jump. This is all in a split second. Jordan has no time to realize that Perkins was going to abort his jump.

Personally, I don't think Kobe did a good job in reading the defense, else he would have gotten of a better shot. So for that it loses points in my mind, as a person who doesn't get impress by dunks, or even that play by Jordan, but more about how a player creates his shots. (Larry Bird was before my time. Low athleticism, but love watching videos of his, appreciating how he makes things happen.)

[plowking]

That's the thing you have to understand with Jordan... he's poetry in motion. There is a grace and style to him that isn't in other players. He starts with his left hand, goes back to his right, and back to his left. At this point in the game Jordan was elevating into his own atmosphere - a Picasso ascending on the Garden floor

Marve's call was right on. To me, he is light years ahead of the other guys because he calls the game in context. It this play happens near the beginning of the game its a different call. But I stoop up before I heard Marv's call so yeah, there was some excitement in the air. Listen to the audience.

You ghey?

[plowking]

Look at the reverse angle replay. If you were in the same position as Jordan you would have switched hands to, thinking that Perkins was going to jump. This is all in a split second. Jordan has no time to realize that Perkins was going to abort his jump.

Personally, I don't think Kobe did a good job in reading the defense, else he would have gotten of a better shot. So for that it loses points in my mind, as a person who doesn't get impress by dunks, or even that play by Jordan, but more about how a player creates his shots. (Larry Bird was before my time. Low athleticism, but love watching videos of his, appreciating how he makes things happen.)

Weren't you guys just saying Jordan's was more spectacular/harder, so wouldn't that mean Jordan got an even worse shot attempt off than Kobe and read the defense even worse?

Nice double standard.

[C-Webb4]

hahaha, Phil Jackson with the "unreal" look on his face.

[jstern]

Please, I've have seen lots of player's do a much better layup than that one, but since his name is Michael Jordan, it get's over hyped! Also like I mentioned before it had Marv Albert with the ''OH A SPECTACULAR MOVE!''

Honestly the hand switch against the Lakers has to be the most overrated highlight plays in NBA history, even if it was ''iconic''.

The Jordan layup against the Nets when he went between the multiple defenders was way better than that overrated, unnecessary, uncontested switch hand layup against the Lakers.....
The layup against the Nets was much better and more impressive, but it wasn't during a dominating stretch during the NBA finals.

And do you really think Marv had anything to do with the play being so famous? Do they even play his voice during replays?

[jstern]

Wow, you're aligning yourself with Kobe Trolls? Not really a good look. First of all, if you look at the actual PLAY, Jordan obviously thinks Perkins is going to jump, which he motions like he's going to do briefly but doesn't. Jordan's reflexes cause him to alter the shot in anticipation of this. It's really quite simple, unless you think Jordan would have rather made the move more complex over going in for an emphatic slam.

Lastly, why is it that whenever there's a Jordan play, these Kobe Trolls come flocking like the jackasses they are? When I see a thread about Kobe plays, I IGNORE it. I don't feel the need to spam the thread with how much better Jordan was.

Oh, that's right. Most of these guys are lonely nutcases who worship a celebrity as a God, that's why.

You're right. I had no idea this was going to become a Kobe vs Jordan thread. One of the big Kobe fans comes over and posts a gif of a Kobe play, and the rest is history.

[wally_world]

If i had hands that huge i could do it too

[Pointguard]

You ghey?

What's gay in that? Is your whole town or city clumbsy and without art. LOL. Do you get to go out?

[jstern]

Weren't you guys just saying Jordan's was more spectacular/harder, so wouldn't that mean Jordan got an even worse shot attempt off than Kobe and read the defense even worse?

Nice double standard.
Double standard? If something doesn't make sense to you then you have to try harder in trying to understand a person's point.

The only thing I have said is that Kobe's was hard, and Jordan's was more artistic. (Pleasing to the eye.) Kobe got a worse shot attempt, the reason why it was harder.

[Phong]

And do you really think Marv had anything to do with the play being so famous? Do they even play his voice during replays?You posted the video yourself.

Don't tell me you don't hear him jizzing his pants for a full minute.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weHo12mawVw

Even in this video game reenactment they use the commentary.

[Batz]

That's the thing you have to understand with Jordan... he's poetry in motion. There is a grace and style to him that isn't in other players. He starts with his left hand, goes back to his right, and back to his left. At this point in the game Jordan was elevating into his own atmosphere - a Picasso ascending on the Garden floor

Marve's call was right on. To me, he is light years ahead of the other guys because he calls the game in context. It this play happens near the beginning of the game its a different call. But I stoop up before I heard Marv's call so yeah, there was some excitement in the air. Listen to the audience.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Kurosawa0]

You're not making a good name for Jordan generation here though.

Here's the difference, they'll still be showing the Jordan move in 20 years. No one will even remember the Kobe one in 5.

[jjayfive]

it may have been a signature moment during the finals, but i've always thought the jordan lay up was overrated when it comes to level of difficulty.. no defender and a clear path to the rim. Not many people can hit kobe's shot with dwight howard in their face...

[DropStep]

This thread really does give a bad name to Kobe fans.
That shot by jordan involved alot of skill not pure luck like some of these kobe trolls aare saying.

[Pointguard]

Weren't you guys just saying Jordan's was more spectacular/harder, so wouldn't that mean Jordan got an even worse shot attempt off than Kobe and read the defense even worse?

Nice double standard.
oh k, I should have known... if I walk in an alley way praising Jordan the rock came from Kobe lover nine times out of ten. Wow, The invasion of the Vince Carter thread and now a MJ thread. Kobe, can't dunk like Carter and imitates MJ to the point where its embarrassing that another professional would go that far. What's amazing is that yall hate the original and superior edition. Its like saying I love the light from the moon but sunlight is whack. Yall keep living in the shadows... Yall are killing it for Kobe.

[Phong]

This thread really does give a bad name to Kobe fans.
That shot by jordan involved alot of skill not pure luck like some of these kobe trolls aare saying.The only one who said anything about luck was Jstern about Kobe's shot.


What's amazing is that yall hate the original and superior edition. Nobody used these two plays to say which one was the better player. Only which one is the better and more difficult move. I still can't see how an uncontested lay-up is the original and superior version of a double-clutch bank shot.

[Batz]

Here's the difference, they'll still be showing the Jordan move in 20 years. No one will even remember the Kobe one in 5.
Where'd ya get your crystal ball from dollarama or something?

[Kurosawa0]

Where'd ya get your crystal ball from dollarama or something?

No crystal ball. Hell, it's only been two years and no one cares about that Kobe shot.

[Pointguard]

The Kobe shot looks contrived. Like after watching his billionth hour of MJ videos he wanted to get up his own version without the height, originality, grace or follow thru which is why the OP showed this clip. Why is the Kobe clip being shown? As a clumbsy acrobatic imitation? It has all the thrill of seeing Bogut attempting a statue of liberty dunk from the foul line. But I hear you.

[Batz]

No crystal ball. Hell, it's only been two years and no one cares about that Kobe shot.
So now I'm guessing off the streets or homemade?

The Kobe shot looks contrived. Like after watching his billionth hour of MJ videos he wanted to get up his own version without the height, originality, grace or follow thru which is why the OP showed this clip. Why is the Kobe clip being shown? As a clumbsy acrobatic imitation? It has all the thrill of seeing Bogut attempting a statue of liberty dunk from the foul line. But I hear you.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[beermonsteroo]

Who ever says this was not difficult is nothing but a hater. It's not only that he switches hand in mid air, dut look at his body! The way he's leaning forward!vNobody has ever done something like this.Jordan's ability tolean forardduring mid air is unmatched. This koind of Body controlis nuts.From what we know now it was not neccesary, but Jordan thought Perkins would try to block him. Therefore it was a smart move.

[Kurosawa0]

It's a matter of moments. Kobe's shot was really good, but it took place in a fairly unremarkable Finals. Jordan's shot symbolizes the start of the Bulls' dynasty. Some plays just mean more than others, regardless of how difficult they were.

[Pointguard]

The MJ shot is special not for its difficulty. Its not about the obstacles he's facing like in many other plays. Actually it is shown for its ease and grace and how Jordan rises above the game. Its like the games said look at me - I'm Neo in the matrix. I make choices in the air. If you imagine a defender I get around him too.

The Kobe play is something totally different. Its acrobatic and about how he got around a defender. Two different stories.

[catch24]

The way he palms the ball @ :35 is insane. Moves it right to left, almost as if he's purposely trying to make it 'flashier' LOL.

[whosegameisit]

I remember that young T-Mac said he couldn't do "the move"

[Pointguard]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Batz, how come you don't talk. Express yourself. Say what's on your mind. You insecure???

[Batz]

Batz, how come you don't talk. Express yourself. Say what's on your mind. You insecure???
The emoticons aren't way to express yourself now? Here's a different one.

:lol

Or do I have to type up a completely meaningless paragraph to random strangers online on how I'm feeling to express a meaningless point? So great job sir, your wooping my ass there.

[liljohnnywall]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4jBKlL66Lg&feature=grec_index

I never actually saw the revers angle replay. Watching it live it was a lot harder than I thought. And on the reverse angle replay I can see why he changed it, since Perk motioned that he was going to jump.

Never really cared for this play, but watching it live puts it in better perspective. I can see why it's so famous, considering how it must have been watching it live, after 12 straight FGs.

try doing it it is hard

[Desperado]

It's a matter of moments. Kobe's shot was really good, but it took place in a fairly unremarkable Finals. Jordan's shot symbolizes the start of the Bulls' dynasty. Some plays just mean more than others, regardless of how difficult they were.

No that's not the case.

It's because the media and corporate America has constantly hyped up MJ like no other player ever.

Jordan has been the most promoted athlete in North American sports history. MJ's massive marketing campaign rivals that of a presidential candidates.

The reason why the hand switch and other of MJ's ''moments'' are still remembered years later is because all of Jordan's sponsors (ESPN, Gatorade, NIKE etc.) have kept showing these ''memorable highlights'' and commercials of these moments' years later. You don't see this from any other player. When was the last time you seen another players ''memorable moment'' on TV or in a commercial etc.?


Suppose there is primary election for governor.

Candidate A: Spends $50 million
Candidate B: Spends $10 million
Candidate C: Spends $2 million

Who is going to get the most exposure and hype? That is just the financial aspect. Even if they do know who Candidate C was how well do they know him compared to how well they know Jordan? Name recognition matters in the formation of opinions.


This is why the ''hand switch'' etc. is still remembered it all had to do with the massive marketing campaign built around Jordan and ESPN who sponsors Jordan. There was also immense money spent by Hanes (to this day you see MJ doing Hanes ads), Gatorade (likeness still used in some Gatorade commercials), McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Rayovac batteries, Ballpark hot dogs, and on and on. Even right now Sirius radio is using him in an ad. There was a Spike Lee movie hyping Jordan. There was Space Jam. There were catchy jingles ("I wanna be like Mike"). Name one athlete who comes close to having this much $$$$ behind him. Maybe you can find a soccer player overseas but you won't find anyone in North America.

[Kurosawa0]

No that's not the case.

It's because the media and corporate America has constantly hyped up MJ like no other player ever.

Jordan has been the most promoted athlete in North American sports history. MJ's massive marketing campaign rivals that of a presidential candidates.

The reason why the hand switch and other of MJ's ''moments'' are still remembered years later is because all of Jordan's sponsors (ESPN, Gatorade, NIKE etc.) have kept showing these ''memorable highlights'' and commercials of these moments' years later. You don't see this from any other player. When was the last time you seen another players ''memorable moment'' on TV or in a commercial etc.?


Suppose there is primary election for governor.

Candidate A: Spends $50 million
Candidate B: Spends $10 million
Candidate C: Spends $2 million

Who is going to get the most exposure and hype? That is just the financial aspect. Even if they do know who Candidate C was how well do they know him compared to how well they know Jordan? Name recognition matters in the formation of opinions.


This is why the ''hand switch'' etc. is still remembered it all had to do with the massive marketing campaign built around Jordan and ESPN who sponsors Jordan. There was also immense money spent by Hanes (to this day you see MJ doing Hanes ads), Gatorade (likeness still used in some Gatorade commercials), McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Rayovac batteries, Ballpark hot dogs, and on and on. Even right now Sirius radio is using him in an ad. There was a Spike Lee movie hyping Jordan. There was Space Jam. There were catchy jingles ("I wanna be like Mike"). Name one athlete who comes close to having this much $$$$ behind him. Maybe you can find a soccer player overseas but you won't find anyone in North America.

And this matters... why?

[jstern]

No that's not the case.

It's because the media and corporate America has constantly hyped up MJ like no other player ever.

Jordan has been the most promoted athlete in North American sports history. MJ's massive marketing campaign rivals that of a presidential candidates.

The reason why the hand switch and other of MJ's ''moments'' are still remembered years later is because all of Jordan's sponsors (ESPN, Gatorade, NIKE etc.) have kept showing these ''memorable highlights'' and commercials of these moments' years later. You don't see this from any other player. When was the last time you seen another players ''memorable moment'' on TV or in a commercial etc.?


Suppose there is primary election for governor.

Candidate A: Spends $50 million
Candidate B: Spends $10 million
Candidate C: Spends $2 million

Who is going to get the most exposure and hype? That is just the financial aspect. Even if they do know who Candidate C was how well do they know him compared to how well they know Jordan? Name recognition matters in the formation of opinions.


This is why the ''hand switch'' etc. is still remembered it all had to do with the massive marketing campaign built around Jordan and ESPN who sponsors Jordan. There was also immense money spent by Hanes (to this day you see MJ doing Hanes ads), Gatorade (likeness still used in some Gatorade commercials), McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Rayovac batteries, Ballpark hot dogs, and on and on. Even right now Sirius radio is using him in an ad. There was a Spike Lee movie hyping Jordan. There was Space Jam. There were catchy jingles ("I wanna be like Mike"). Name one athlete who comes close to having this much $$$$ behind him. Maybe you can find a soccer player overseas but you won't find anyone in North America.
Wow, I didn't know that the reason why many us think Jordan is the greatest is because he does a lot of commercials. I seriously thought it was because of the way he dominated the league. I guess I'm a sheep. And so is Kobe, and Magic and Bird, and all of those players who consider Jordan the GOAT. Speaking of Magic, he and Isaiah in an interview said Jordan was the GOAT in 92', but I'm sure ESPN is the reason.

[Phong]

^^^^^

Reading comprehension fail.

His argument explains why people remember those highlights; because they have been played and replayed in commercials or ESPN ad nauseum.

This is why the ''hand switch'' etc. is still remembered it all had to do with the massive marketing campaign built around Jordan

It's a response to:

Here's the difference, they'll still be showing the Jordan move in 20 years. No one will even remember the Kobe one in 5.

It has nothing to do with why Jordan is seen as the greatest.

[RoseCity07]

Brandon Roy did the same play, only he broke down his defender, side stepped the next guy, and then got Bosh to bite on the right hand, while finishing with his left hand.

[Kurosawa0]

It doesn't matter how many commercials it's been in. It's about the play being a symbol for an era. Sure, the commercials and ESPN drove it home, but that's just the way things are. Kobe's move didn't warrant that kind of hype because it didn't really mean anything.

[Desperado]

Brandon Roy did the same play, only he broke down his defender, side stepped the next guy, and then got Bosh to bite on the right hand, while finishing with his left hand.

Now how many times have you seen that played on ESPN highlights or in a Nike or Gatorade commercial with a catchy jingle ''If I could be like Roy''?

[Desperado]

It doesn't matter how many commercials it's been in. It's about the play being a symbol for an era. Sure, the commercials and ESPN drove it home, but that's just the way things are. Kobe's move didn't warrant that kind of hype because it didn't really mean anything.

None of Jordan's moves have ever really meant anything either.

[Desperado]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AGiq9j_Ak

If they did a commercial like that with Kobe's move and a catchy jingle then played it on TV and ESPN over and over it would be as memorable and famous as MJ's hand switch.

[Kurosawa0]

None of Jordan's moves have ever meant anything either.

This is just stupidity. I understand you like Kobe, but trying to argue what you are is just ridiculous.

[Scott Baker]

Perkins was a crap defender. He basically shuffled his feet and kinda half ass pretended to move his arms. He was no where near Jordan and he never really tried to contest the shot. I've seen Kobe hit a left handed 3 pointer in a game so I'm not impressed with Jordan's fake hustle. Or how about this.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/misc/Sports/2009Finalsmove.gif

F*ck off, like getting past Courtney Lee is anything to brag about.

[HisJoeness]

What about this play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3rrROU2xNc

6:20 in.

[Pointguard]

The emoticons aren't way to express yourself now? Here's a different one.

:lol

Or do I have to type up a completely meaningless paragraph to random strangers online on how I'm feeling to express a meaningless point? So great job sir, your wooping my ass there.

Why are you imgaining I am wooping you? Why would your paragraphs be meaningless if they had any content to them???? Soooo emoticons can express most of your thoughts. hmmmmm so are you a clown???

[Batz]

Why are you imgaining I am wooping you? Why would your paragraphs be meaningless if they had any content to them???? Soooo emoticons can express most of your thoughts. hmmmmm so are you a clown???
It expressed my though towards you.

[Desperado]

This is just stupidity. I understand you like Kobe, but trying to argue what you are is just ridiculous.

Your crap is just as ridiculous. I understand you grew up with Jordan as your childhood hero and idolize him until this day, but trying to argue with what you are is just ridiculous.

I understand though its hard when you feel nostalgic, everything is more amazing and magical in the eyes of a child and some people can't let go of the past.

I used to feel the same way about Magic Johnson and thought he was just untouchable until I grew up and stopped living in the past and just accepted and realized he was just another great player even though I loved him growing up. Hopefully this will come to you also one day.

[Phong]

What about this play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3rrROU2xNc

6:20 in.Much better than the overrated one in the OP. :applause:

[RoseCity07]

Now how many times have you seen that played on ESPN highlights or in a Nike or Gatorade commercial with a catchy jingle ''If I could be like Roy''?

Why does that matter? How many times do you see a star in a small market get any media attention.

[jstern]

^^^^^

Reading comprehension fail.

His argument explains why people remember those highlights; because they have been played and replayed in commercials or ESPN ad nauseum.

This is why the ''hand switch'' etc. is still remembered it all had to do with the massive marketing campaign built around Jordan

It's a response to:

Here's the difference, they'll still be showing the Jordan move in 20 years. No one will even remember the Kobe one in 5.

It has nothing to do with why Jordan is seen as the greatest.
That's not his argument. His argument is that Jordan is overrated because of ESPN and commercials. It's one of the new thing that Kobe trolls use to discredit Jordan and pump up Kobe. Why they spend so much time on trying to make Kobe seem better than Jordan, I don't know.

[Kurosawa0]

Your crap is just as ridiculous. I understand you grew up with Jordan as your childhood hero and idolized him until this day, but trying to argue with what you are is just ridiculous.

I understand though its hard when you feel nostalgic, everything is more amazing and magical in the eyes of a child and some people can't let go of the past.

I used to feel the same way about Magic Johnson and thought he was just untouchable until I grew up and stopped living in the past and just accepted and realized he was just another great player even though I loved him growing up. Hopefully this will come to you also one day.

It has nothing to do with any of that. It's about it being a play that symbolizes an era. Just like the Kobe-Shaq alley oop. Nothing really overly difficult about it, but it's the signature moment of their pairing. That's why it's one of the great plays too.

It just sounds like to me that you're trying to build up your favorite player. I'm not doing that. The Jordan switch is a great moment because it represents something. That's important and it doesn't matter how it came to be, it just is.

[Kurosawa0]

That's not his argument. His argument is that Jordan is overrated because of ESPN and commercials. It's one of the new thing that Kobe trolls use to discredit Jordan and pump up Kobe. Why they spend so much time on trying to make Kobe seem better than Jordan, I don't know.

They got to try and use something. Sure as shit can't use basketball.

[jstern]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AGiq9j_Ak

If they did a commercial like that with Kobe's move and a catchy jingle then played it on TV and ESPN over and over it would be as memorable and famous as MJ's hand switch.
I haven't seen that commercial in so long, but it perfectly describes Kobe growing up. That's not a put down.

[Batz]

What about this play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3rrROU2xNc

6:20 in.
Now THAT'S ****ing awesome.

[Phong]

That's not his argument. His argument is that Jordan is overrated because of ESPN and commercials. It's one of the new thing that Kobe trolls use to discredit Jordan and pump up Kobe. Why they spend so much time on trying to make Kobe seem better than Jordan, I don't know.

The reason why the hand switch and other of MJ's ''moments'' are still remembered years later is because all of Jordan's sponsors (ESPN, Gatorade, NIKE etc.) have kept showing these ''memorable highlights'' and commercials of these moments' years later. You don't see this from any other player. When was the last time you seen another players ''memorable moment'' on TV or in a commercial etc.?

This is why the ''hand switch'' etc. is still remembered it all had to do with the massive marketing campaign built around Jordan and ESPN who sponsors Jordan. There was also immense money spent by Hanes (to this day you see MJ doing Hanes ads), Gatorade (likeness still used in some Gatorade commercials), McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Rayovac batteries, Ballpark hot dogs, and on and on. Even right now Sirius radio is using him in an ad. There was a Spike Lee movie hyping Jordan. There was Space Jam. There were catchy jingles ("I wanna be like Mike"). Name one athlete who comes close to having this much $$$$ behind him.Where does it say MJ was overrated?

I guess it's easier to call someone a Kobe troll than arguing his point.

[Pointguard]

Brandon Roy did the same play, only he broke down his defender, side stepped the next guy, and then got Bosh to bite on the right hand, while finishing with his left hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvLneb_iBIA

I like this better than the Kobe one because he's weaving in and out. But again. But these moves are done in tribute. When you seen Jordan do his thing you knew there would be others doing it. Not as graceful I might add.

[jstern]

Much better than the overrated one in the OP. :applause:
That is a better play. Of course that doesn't mean that Finals play is not pretty one.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

F*ck off, like getting past Courtney Lee is anything to brag about.

If you want to make it personal then you can f**k off and die. Not only did he leave Courtney Lee in the dust but the defensive player of the year Dwight Howard contested the shot. Jordan was essentially alone and untouched. Everybody with two eyes can see that. Your argument sucks, and you, as a human being, suck. Kiss my balls.

[jstern]

Where does it say MJ was overrated?

I guess it's easier to call someone a Kobe troll than arguing his point.
The part you erase, it talks about how basically Jordan is overrated because of commercials and ESPN. Then he mentioned it that as part of the reason why the play is overrated.

[Desperado]

That's not his argument. His argument is that Jordan is overrated because of ESPN and commercials. It's one of the new thing that Kobe trolls use to discredit Jordan and pump up Kobe. Why they spend so much time on trying to make Kobe seem better than Jordan, I don't know.

It's not just Kobe though, its every other great player!

Kareem never even gets mentioned on ESPN until they find out he was diagnosed with cancer.

Jordan was a great player, perhaps the best ever, but the notion that he is the "clear, undisputed GOAT" is ridiculous and a direct product of the massive marketing campaign Jordan benefited from. When is the last time you saw Wilt or Russell in a commercial? Magic is doing ads--selling furniture but that is about it. When you combine the money behind him a lot of companies had a vested interest in Jordan being viewed as great as possible. The exposure that money gave him and the fact that he played more recently than Kareem, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Wilt it isn't surprising most people today have him as the "clear GOAT." It always amazes me how Kareem, Wilt and Magic are #2, #3 or # 4 on 95% of lists yet rarely get to #1. What makes Jordan indisputably better than them? What is the big difference between having him #1 and Kareem (who had very little marketing behind him...) #2?

Candidate A: Spends $50 million
Candidate B: Spends $10 million
Candidate C: Spends $2 million

Who do you think is going to win? That is just the financial aspect. Name recognition matters. People wear, or used to wear, Jordan t-shirts even in remote African and Asian villages. How many people know Wilt, Kareem, or Russell in America let alone remote parts of foreign countries where basketball is not huge? Even if they do know who Wilt was how well do they know him compared to how well they know Jordan? Name recognition matters in the formation of opinions. Why do you think Hillary was ahead by 20 points in practically every state in the spring and summer of 2007? Jordan is all some people know and he is the only "GOAT candidate" level player, other than Shaq, that most people know well so what do you expect them to say when they are asked who the GOAT is?


I'm not saying Kobe is better than Jordan or isn't the GOAT but he is overrated. He is ascribed god-like qualities at times by his biggest fans.

Let's face it: most people call Jordan the undisputed GOAT because that is all they hear on ESPN and everywhere else. Jordan being the GOAT is passed off as scientific fact, not an opinion.

[Phong]

The part you erase, it talks about how basically Jordan is overrated because of commercials and ESPN. Then he mentioned it that as part of the reason why the play is overrated.The only part I erased was the analogy with the presidential candidates and their campaign budget. Try again.

Since it's so easy to quote someone's post. Why don't you quote the part where it says Jordan was overrated, which made you go on a rant about Jordan being the GOAT and shit.

Edit: well now in his latest post he said it. Not the old one.

[jstern]

If you want to make it personal then you can f**k off and die. Not only did he leave Courtney Lee in the dust but the defensive player of the year Dwight Howard contested the shot. Jordan was essentially alone and untouched. Everybody with two eyes can see that. Your argument sucks, and you, as a human being, suck. Kiss my balls.
Just because a play is harder doesn't make as pretty as the Jordan, thus the reason why it's more famous. Also I didn't want to mention it early, but the lack of hand checking, pushing Kobe back just taints that play even more. Plus the reason that the shot was harder is because Kobe is not as good as Jordan at creating better shots. Since circus shots don't impress me since I'm not new to basketball, the play overall doesn't really impresses me for the reasons mentioned. Particularly Kobe creating a horrible shot. Perhaps if I was like 12 I would have been more impressed, but at this age it's just another circus shot. Similar to how dunking contest is more impressive to kids, since by the time they become adults they've seen more than enough dunks.

[Soundwave]

It's not just Kobe though, its every other great player!

Kareem never even gets mentioned on ESPN until they find out he was diagnosed with cancer.

Jordan was a great player, perhaps the best ever, but the notion that he is the "clear, undisputed GOAT" is ridiculous and a direct product of the massive marketing campaign Jordan benefited from. When is the last time you saw Wilt or Russell in a commercial? Magic is doing ads--selling furniture but that is about it. When you combine the money behind him a lot of companies had a vested interest in Jordan being viewed as great as possible. The exposure that money gave him and the fact that he played more recently than Kareem, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Wilt it isn't surprising most people today have him as the "clear GOAT." It always amazes me how Kareem, Wilt and Magic are #2, #3 or # 4 on 95% of lists yet rarely get to #1. What makes Jordan indisputably better than them? What is the big difference between having him #1 and Kareem (who had very little marketing behind him...) #2?

Candidate A: Spends $50 million
Candidate B: Spends $10 million
Candidate C: Spends $2 million

Who do you think is going to win? That is just the financial aspect. Name recognition matters. People wear, or used to wear, Jordan t-shirts even in remote African and Asian villages. How many people know Wilt, Kareem, or Russell in America let alone remote parts of foreign countries where basketball is not huge? Even if they do know who Wilt was how well do they know him compared to how well they know Jordan? Name recognition matters in the formation of opinions. Why do you think Hillary was ahead by 20 points in practically every state in the spring and summer of 2007? Jordan is all some people know and he is the only "GOAT candidate" level player, other than Shaq, that most people know well so what do you expect them to say when they are asked who the GOAT is?


I'm not saying Kobe is better than Jordan or isn't the GOAT but he is overrated. He is ascribed god-like qualities at times by his biggest fans.

Let's face it: most people call Jordan the undisputed GOAT because that is all they hear on ESPN and everywhere else. Jordan being the GOAT is passed off as scientific fact, not an opinion.

He's the consensus GOAT by a lot of basketball experts and the general public ... it's not just ESPN.

Hell, back when he retired the first time in 1993, a lot of people (and certainly popular opinion) even at that time was that he was GOAT. The second three peat and the way he finished it (game winning shot) pretty much sealed the deal.

IMO he's the GOAT because he has the total package across the board. Offensively, defensively he was dominant, and he has both the individual dominance (scoring titles, all-time PPG leader, MVPs, etc.) combined with the team dominance (6 titles as no.1 option, 72-10 season).

I don't think any of the other GOAT candidates match up in both those areas. Wilt had a lot of individual dominance, but could not couple that with team dominance. Russell had team dominance, but is no where close on the individual stuff. Magic/Bird are somewhere in between and neither was a great defender and MJ trumps both in the title count. Kareem is probably the closest, but he was no where near the no.1 option for a lot of the titles he won, nor does he have as many scoring titles.

[Phong]

Just because a play is harder doesn't make as pretty as the Jordan, thus the reason why it's more famous. Also I didn't want to mention it early, but the lack of hand checking, pushing Kobe back just taints that play even more. Plus the reason that the shot was harder is because Kobe is not as good as Jordan at creating better shots. Since circus shots don't impress me since I'm not new to basketball, the play overall doesn't really impresses me for the reasons mentioned. Particularly Kobe creating a horrible shot. Perhaps if I was like 12 I would have been more impressed, but at this age it's just another circus shot. Similar to how dunking contest is more impressive to kids, since by the time they become adults they've seen more than enough dunks.:facepalm

The reason why Kobe's play was harder was because 3 defenders tried going at him while Jordan has an uncontested lay-up after receiving a pass.

What does the handcheck have anything to do in this instance when Jordan wasn't even guarded in this play; therefore no handckeck on him either.

As for the dunk contest analogy it is more fitting with Jordan going to the rim with nobody in his face.

[jstern]

It's not just Kobe though, its every other great player!

Kareem never even gets mentioned on ESPN until they find out he was diagnosed with cancer.

Jordan was a great player, perhaps the best ever, but the notion that he is the "clear, undisputed GOAT" is ridiculous and a direct product of the massive marketing campaign Jordan benefited from. When is the last time you saw Wilt or Russell in a commercial? Magic is doing ads--selling furniture but that is about it. When you combine the money behind him a lot of companies had a vested interest in Jordan being viewed as great as possible. The exposure that money gave him and the fact that he played more recently than Kareem, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Wilt it isn't surprising most people today have him as the "clear GOAT." It always amazes me how Kareem, Wilt and Magic are #2, #3 or # 4 on 95% of lists yet rarely get to #1. What makes Jordan indisputably better than them? What is the big difference between having him #1 and Kareem (who had very little marketing behind him...) #2?

Candidate A: Spends $50 million
Candidate B: Spends $10 million
Candidate C: Spends $2 million

Who do you think is going to win? That is just the financial aspect. Name recognition matters. People wear, or used to wear, Jordan t-shirts even in remote African and Asian villages. How many people know Wilt, Kareem, or Russell in America let alone remote parts of foreign countries where basketball is not huge? Even if they do know who Wilt was how well do they know him compared to how well they know Jordan? Name recognition matters in the formation of opinions. Why do you think Hillary was ahead by 20 points in practically every state in the spring and summer of 2007? Jordan is all some people know and he is the only "GOAT candidate" level player, other than Shaq, that most people know well so what do you expect them to say when they are asked who the GOAT is?


I'm not saying Kobe is better than Jordan or isn't the GOAT but he is overrated. He is ascribed god-like qualities at times by his biggest fans.

Let's face it: most people call Jordan the undisputed GOAT because that is all they hear on ESPN and everywhere else. Jordan being the GOAT is passed off as scientific fact, not an opinion.
The hell with those list. What about the list of people like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant, countless coaches and so many NBA greats, they all have Jordan as number 1.

I mean, if a player is the GOAT, then don't be surprise when most lists have him listed as number one.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

:facepalm

The reason why Kobe's play was harder was because 3 defenders tried going at him while Jordan has an uncontested lay-up after receiving a pass.



Thank you.

[Phong]

"Kobe's play sucks cause he created his own shot and 3 other players tried to defend him and they couldn't use handchecking."

"Jordan's play was unbelievably artistic cause he was all alone and he received a pass for an uncontested layup."

[jstern]

:facepalm

The reason why Kobe's play was harder was because 3 defenders tried going at him while Jordan has an uncontested lay-up after receiving a pass.

What does the handcheck have anything to do in this instance when Jordan wasn't even guarded in this play; therefore no handckeck on him either.

As for the dunk contest analogy it is more fitting with Jordan going to the rim with nobody in his face.
I'm getting tired of saying it, but I keep saying that the Kobe play was harder. I have not once said that the Jordan play was harder. The only thing I've said is that the Jordan play was artistic play and that's why it gets more attention, while Kobe has countless number of better plays that are not circus shots.

About the handchecking, I was responding to someone who commented about how Kobe blew by his defender.

[Phong]

^^^^^

Please, explain the differences between a normal play, an artistic one and a circus one.

[Soundwave]

The play was nothing special per MJ's usual acrobatics. Though the rarely seen reverse angle on NBC shows it to be a pretty difficult shot and it's worth taking a look at it.

The reason why the play is special is because everyone on the planet was watching this NBA Finals ... Michael Vs. Magic, and Michael throw down the gauntlet in game 2 with that move being the exclamation point.

Everyone was waiting for a "wow" moment and they got it and David Stern/NBC wasted no time marketing the hell out of it.

Though Jordan's game 3 performance in L.A. was really more spectacular, willing the Bulls to victory with Pippen fouled out in OT. That broke the Lakers back, and a new dynasty was born.

[Desperado]

Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant, countless coaches and so many NBA greats, they all have Jordan as number 1.

I haven't seen any official lists from any players you mentioned, all I have seen from most people is quote mining Magic and Kobe.

Also you have to understand most of those guys are being polite and-or politically correct because nobody will take you seriously and will criticize you for contradicting the majority opinion, Elliot Kalb for example who ranked Shaq as the GOAT in his book ''Who's Better, Who's Best in Basketball? ''

[jstern]

^^^^^

Please, explain the differences between a normal play, an artistic one and a circus one.
A regular play is something like a regular jump shot, or a simple layup.
An artistic play is something like that Kobe dunk in his 1st all star game, or Vince Carter's reverse 360 dunks. Acrobatic, smooth, in control.
A circus shot is typically when the offensive player puts himself in a horrible position and has to throw it up awkwardly and requires a bit more luck than a regular play.

[Pointguard]

The OP is saying he saw the play before without much fanfare. He looks again realizes he didn't see why the adjustments were made. Obviously he is looking at the play again because its captivating. Other posters join in and chime in as to why the play was great in the first place: The context in the game, the grace, the agility, the reaction of the arena, the announcers, the players, the momentum, the spontaneity, and the fact that you knew when it happened it would be imitated.

Sure there are plays of higher difficulty but not the same in regards to the other stuff. Its ok to say you don't get it. But don't be bringing in other stuff and acting like its equal because of difficulty alone. That MJ move is what it is because of several things and difficulty isn't high on the list.

[jstern]

I haven't seen any official lists from any players you mentioned, all I have seen from most people is quote mining Magic and Kobe.

Also you have to understand most of those guys are being polite and-or politically correct because nobody will take you seriously and will criticize you for contradicting the majority opinion, Elliot Kalb for example who ranked Shaq #1 in his book ''Who's Better, Who's Best in Basketball? ''
Are you for real? So people like Magic Johnson claim that Jordan is the GOAT because they're being polite?

[Soundwave]

The beauty of MJ's career is that the marketing never overshadowed the player.

He always delivered. He was always the real deal. And he always came up with ingenious spontaneous moments like this at just the right time to help send the NBA into the stratosphere.

It isn't like today where players who haven't played 1-game get sneaker deals and the whole thing feels pre-packaged and phony.

With Jordan the NBA had a bond with the general public .... which quite frankly they've lost since '98.

[Phong]

A circus shot is typically when the offensive players puts himself in a horrible position and has to throw it up awkwardly and requires a bit more luck than a regular play.Then I don't know why you keep claiming Kobe's shot again Howard was a circus one. He was in control the whole time. When Dwight went for the block, he withdrew the ball, went around Dwight's flailing arms and banked the shot. Kobe never was in an awkward position throughout the move.

Some even argued in this very thread that his move had been planned in advance (after watching hundreds of MJ's tapes) because it was so smooth. While MJ's move was all about reflexes.

You could argue MJ made his life worse by switching hands for absolutely nothing and almost fell forward after releasing the ball. And by your definition that would be a circus shot.

[Calabis]

I'm a member of both generaltions. I do understand. Both moves were cool but with a little perspective I think it's clear that Kobe's move was harder and better. Kobe's move just didn't have a nut-hugging announcer screaming how spectacular it was. Over-rated, and anybody that's not a Jordan fanboy should concur.

maybe becuse Kobe didn't just hit 12 FG's in a row..

[Phong]

maybe becuse Kobe didn't just hit 12 FG's in a row..
Are people judging this play on its own merit or MJ's entire game? :confusedshrug:

[Pointguard]

Are people judging this play on its own merit or MJ's entire game? :confusedshrug:
Once Again:
Obviously he is looking at the play again because its captivating. Other posters join in and chime in as to why the play was great in the first place: The context in the game, the grace, the agility, the reaction of the arena, the announcers, the players, the momentum, the spontaneity, and the fact that you knew when it happened it would be imitated.

Sure there are plays of higher difficulty but not the same in regards to the other stuff. Its ok to say you don't get it. But don't be bringing in other stuff and acting like its equal because of difficulty alone. That MJ move is what it is because of several things and difficulty isn't high on the list.

[Soundwave]

The Kobe play is just a fade away jump shot/lay up.

It's a tough shot, but that's about it.

The Jordan play was ballet-like, which is why the NBA marketing department seized on it -- it was something that communicated the grace of basketball perfectly to "average joe/jane public".

The Kobe play, I don't even recall the NBA ever using it in any marketing campaign, because it's a nice play, but it's a basketball play. It doesn't really appeal to non/casual fans.

[Desperado]

:oldlol: God MJ fan boys are delusional.

[jstern]

The OP is saying he saw the play before without much fanfare. He looks again realizes he didn't see why the adjustments were made. Obviously he is looking at the play again because its captivating. Other posters join in and chime in as to why the play was great in the first place: The context in the game, the grace, the agility, the reaction of the arena, the announcers, the players, the momentum, the spontaneity, and the fact that you knew when it happened it would be imitated.

Sure there are plays of higher difficulty but not the same in regards to the other stuff. Its ok to say you don't get it. But don't be bringing in other stuff and acting like its equal because of difficulty alone. That MJ move is what it is because of several things and difficulty isn't high on the list.
Yes, the point of the thread is trying to put in perspective why that move is so famous, compared for example to his layup against the Nets. The spontaneity is the perfect word. Such a big stage, Magic vs Jordan, and all eyes on Jordan simply because he was on fire and had just hit 12 straight FGs, and then all of a sudden he switches hands for what seems like no reason, like almost showing off. Putting myself mentally there how if must have been watching it live, and considering all of those things mentioned, it puts it totally in perspective. And seeing the reverse angle makes me totally understand why he switched hands.

[DuMa]

i remember watching it live. it was just a perfect topping to the game MJ had. perfect for marketing but then again anything MJ did was easy to market.

[Phong]

Picasso in the garden of Eden.. it's not basketball it's ballet.. :facepalm

[Desperado]

Picasso in the garden of Eden.. it's not basketball it's ballet.. :facepalm

Yeah the MJ jockers really need to put down their Space Jam doll.

:lol

[jstern]

Then I don't know why you keep claiming Kobe's shot again Howard was a circus one. He was in control the whole time. When Dwight went for the block, he withdrew the ball, went around Dwight's flailing arms and banked the shot. Kobe never was in an awkward position throughout the move.

Some even argued in this very thread that his move had been planned in advance (after watching hundreds of MJ's tapes) because it was so smooth. While MJ's move was all about reflexes.

You could argue MJ made his life worse by switching hands for absolutely nothing and almost fell forward after releasing the ball. And by your definition that would be a circus shot.
It was an awkward shot, and wasn't graceful.

[rivas]

Another thread about MJ turns into a Kobe VS MJ thread, how predictable.

[Phong]

It was an awkward shot, and wasn't graceful.So him maintaining his balance throughout the move around Dwight is awkward. But Jordan leaning forward and almost losing his balance while releasing his shot is graceful. :rolleyes:

Whatever. :facepalm

[Soundwave]

:oldlol: God MJ fan boys are delusional.

Don't worry, I've heard this song and dance for about 20 years now ... a small batch of sour pusses have been seething at this play since the day it happened because of their jealousy.

I remember the day after, my neighbor who was a die hard Celtics/Bird fan went on a rant about how it was an unnecessary move and blah, blah, blah, when it was obvious he knew a new era was dawning and just couldn't take it.

So I always laugh when I see discussions like this on message boards because it takes me back right to the summer of '91. There's always that one guy who has a stick up their ass about this play and is seething jealously over it.

The public loved this play and embraced it. It was a special time for the NBA.

It's like Michael Jackson doing the moonwalk for the first time on Motown 25 ... no it wasn't technically the first time anyone moonwalked ... it wasn't the most difficult dance move ... but it's seizing the moment, the time ... there's something special about it. And if you can't understand that, then you're just dense.

[Calabis]

Are people judging this play on its own merit or MJ's entire game? :confusedshrug:

Uhh, he brought up the nut hugging announcer....the reason: Jordan was on fire and that play just capped a incredible display

[jstern]

Another thread about MJ turns into a Kobe VS MJ thread, how predictable.
I seriously did not predict this. I just couldn't see how this was going to turn into a Kobe vs MJ thread. In fact I thought this was going to be a 1 page thread, since I didn't see any controversy in it.

[Desperado]

It was an awkward shot, and wasn't graceful.

And what so ''graceful'' about a useless a switch that was nothing but an uncontested layup ? :oldlol:





http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/7521/6957/AA_Basketball_player.jpg

For real put it down man....

:facepalm jeez... Jordan has the most delusional idiotic fan base in sports

[bdreason]

People don't understand that the difficulty of the shot almost had nothing to do with the impact of the shot. This game was Jordan and the Bulls handing it to the historic franchise L.A. Lakers... and MJ seemingly playing around by creating a more difficult shot for himself.

[asd]

So him maintaining his balance throughout the move around Dwight is awkward. But Jordan leaning forward and almost losing his balance while releasing his shot is graceful. :rolleyes:

Whatever. :facepalm


lmao @ Jordan 'almost losing his balance'

kobe didn't almost lose his balance, but lost it completely and landed on his ass

[Calabis]

And what so ''graceful'' about a useless a switch that was nothing but an uncontested layup ? :oldlol:





http://s3.amazonaws.com/bonanzleimages/afu/images/7521/6957/AA_Basketball_player.jpg

For real put it down man....

:facepalm jeez... Jordan has the most delusional idiotic fan base in sports

Says the guy with his head up Kobe's ass

[Desperado]

Don't worry, I've heard this song and dance for about 20 years now ... a small batch of sour pusses have been seething at this play since the day it happened because of their jealousy.

I remember the day after, my neighbor who was a die hard Celtics/Bird fan went on a rant about how it was an unnecessary move and blah, blah, blah, when it was obvious he knew a new era was dawning and just couldn't take it.

So I always laugh when I see discussions like this on message boards because it takes me back right to the summer of '91. There's always that one guy who has a stick up their ass about this play and is seething jealously over it.

The public loved this play and embraced it.

Of course kids loved the play and embraced it. The play is in the Gatorade commercial with the catchy ''Be Like Mike'' jingle and was played on ESPN and local TV over and over. It will always be in your childhood memory but that dosen't change the fact that its nothing but an overrated highlight play and not difficult at all. many players have done it before but of course it was Michael Jordan it gets hyped beyond belief.

[Phong]

lmao @ Jordan 'almost losing his balance'

kobe didn't almost lose his balance, but lost it completely and landed on his assI said during the move itself dumbass. And look at Jordan's body position when he has to throw his shot. You call that graceful?

Kobe release his shot while being straight up, both hands on the ball like a regular jumpshot. MJ was awkwardly leaning forward, almost under the rim and had to throw it over his shoulder/back.

[Soundwave]

Of course kids loved the play and embraced it. The play is in the Gatorade commercial with the catchy ''Be Like Mike'' jingle and was played on ESPN and local TV over and over. It will always be in your childhood memory but that dosen't change the fact that its nothing but an overrated highlight play and not difficult at all. many players have done it before but of course it was Michael Jordan it gets hyped beyond belief.

It was embraced more by "joe public" ... which really means this -- white America.

Women loved that play, men loved it. It was a moment in time ... history was up for the taking, and someone had to take it, and it all crystalized organically.

I think the reason people love that play is because of the idea that someone could stay in the air and change their mind about what they wanted to do.

Not because they had to, not because they were forced to, but just because they could. I think Magic actually summed that up in his animated take on the play afterwards.

There's a certain appeal in that to a person "Joe Public". Beyond the obvious points -- it was a moment where everyone in the world was watching.

[Desperado]

I have my head up Jordan's ass


Sorry don't know how to help you....

Maybe its time for you to grown up and stop watching that Space Jam video tape over and over tape that your mom brought you in '96.

It's unhealthy to live in the past so much and still idolize your childhood hero as an adult....

[Desperado]

It was embraced more by "joe public" ... which really means this -- white America.

Women loved that play, men loved it. It was a moment in time ... history was up for the taking, and someone had to take it, and it all crystalized organically.

I think the reason people love that play is because of the idea that someone could stay in the air and change their mind about what they wanted to do.

Not because they had to, not because they were forced to, but just because they could. I think Magic actually summed that up in his animated take on the play afterwards.

There's a certain appeal in that to a person "Joe Public". Beyond the obvious points -- it was a moment where everyone in the world was watching.


Maybe in your deluded mind and fantasy world all that is fine and dandy...but anyone who knows anything about basketball will tell you that play was vastly overrated and not even that difficult and many other players have done it.

[asd]

I said during the move itself dumbass. And look at Jordan's body position when he has to throw his shot. You call that graceful?

Kobe release his shot while being straight up, both hands on the ball like a regular jumpshot. MJ was awkwardly leaning forward, almost under the rim and had to throw it over his shoulder/back.


i know what you said

but kobe landed on his ass

so this debate about kobe's shot being more graceful is ova!

[Soundwave]

Maybe in your deluded mind and fantasy world all that is fine and dandy...but anyone who knows anything about basketball will tell you that play was vastly overrated and not even that difficult and many other players have done it.

It's obvious you weren't either born or weren't old enough to understand why this play was impactful at the time it happened.

If you can't understand context and the history of the game, then you'll always be in the dark about this.

But don't think you get a cookie for "hating" on the play ... I laugh at that, because there's always been this vocal minority of dude's with sticks up their rear ends about this play who are bitterly jealous at how beloved this highlight is.

Like I said, it's like some kid today not understand what the moonwalk at the Motown 25 special meant and think Usher or Chris Brown or whoever has done a better dance move. That's not the point.

If it's such an "overrated" play ... why is it repeated so often, even today? People obviously love that moment. Get over it. The public spoke on this a long time ago.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

That's the thing you have to understand with Jordan... he's poetry in motion. There is a grace and style to him that isn't in other players. He starts with his left hand, goes back to his right, and back to his left. At this point in the game Jordan was elevating into his own atmosphere - a Picasso ascending on the Garden floor



Best post above in this thread.


To me 1991 was the best year of my life. I graduated high school, started college, traveled quite a bit in the summer. I remember communism fell in the Soviet Union, Pearl Jam's "ten" was released, the Red Hot Chili Peppers recorded "Blood Sugar Sex Magic", Nirvana's Nevermind was released. Even rap music was still really good. Life was completely ahead of me.
That series was MJ and him finally getting his first ring, and he torched Magic's Lakers along the way. I would argue this was Michael at his absolute peak; the 1990-1991 season.

And many of us are lucky enough to have watched this LIVE on TV!

[Phong]

Picasso in the garden of Eden.. it's not basket ball, it's ballet.. women loved that play, men loved it too, orphans all around the world rallied behind it, slaves used it as an analogy to freedom, old people see that play as a flight to heaven.. :blah

This is getting more and more ridiculous. :facepalm

[Soundwave]

LOL at the 16-year-old Laker fans (errr .... I hesitate to call them "Laker fans" because they probably won't even be cheering for L.A. anymore in 3 years time).

They've replaced the bitter, old Celtics/Bird fans who used to hate on this play.

Magic/Laker fans of that time knew better I think because they knew the end was coming. Half the Great Western Forum was cheering for Jordan to throw down dunks by the time this series was winding down -- typical L.A.

[Desperado]

It's obvious you weren't either born or weren't old enough to understand why this play was impactful at the time it happened.

If you can't understand context and the history of the game, then you'll always be in the dark about this.

But don't think you get a cookie for "hating" on the play ... I laugh at that, because there's always been this vocal minority of dude's with sticks up their rear ends about this play who are bitterly jealous at how beloved this highlight is.

Like I said, it's like some kid today not understand what the moonwalk at the Motown 25 special meant and think Usher or Chris Brown or whoever has done a better dance move. That's not the point.

I've already forgot more about basketball than you will ever know and watched basketball longer than you and those other silly Jordan jocking, Nike Air Jordan wearing clowns.

Don't think you get a cookie for jocking Jordan and growing up watching Space Jam.

Get real, nobody is jealous of a overrated uncontested layup highlight....:lol

[Soundwave]

I've already forgot more about basketball than you will ever know and watched basketball longer than you and those other silly Jordan jocking, Nike Air Jordan wearing clowns.

Don't think you get a cookie for jocking Jordan and growing up watching Space Jam.

Get real, nobody is jealous of a overrated uncontested layup highlight....:lol

Then why are you posting in a massive thread about it?

And for the record I didn't even care much for "Space Jam", lol.

But of course this is all part of an ESPN marketing conspiracy, right? Are they trying to keep Kobe down too by not running highlights of his magical moment versus Orlando? :oldlol:

The general public spoke on this a long time ago. Get over it.

[Desperado]

Best post above in this thread.


To me 1991 was the best year of my life. I graduated high school, started college, traveled quite a bit in the summer. I remember communism fell in the Soviet Union, Pearl Jam's "ten" was released, the Red Hot Chili Peppers recorded "Blood Sugar Sex Magic", Nirvana's Nevermind was released. Even rap music was still really good. Life was completely ahead of me.
That series was MJ and him finally getting his first ring, and he torched Magic's Lakers along the way. I would argue this was Michael at his absolute peak; the 1990-1991 season.

And many of us are lucky enough to have watched this LIVE on TV!

Exactly you guys are just being nostalgic and like to live in the past so to you and especially kids who grew up watching Jordan as their childhood hero like to believe everything then was more amazing and magical or more special then anything else.

[thejumpa]

I've already forgot more about basketball than you will ever know and watched basketball longer than you and those other silly Jordan jocking, Nike Air Jordan wearing clowns.

Don't think you get a cookie for jocking Jordan and growing up watching Space Jam.

Get real, nobody is jealous of a overrated uncontested layup highlight....:lol

Nah you sound pretty bitter and/or jealous about something. Overrated? lol. Not that difficult? :oldlol: I gaurantee you couldn't do it.

You're that guy that hated Jordan simply because he won. You are jealous that your other favorite player didn't get the same shine because Jordan overshadowed. I frequently see you calling people delusional and "stans"...just like someone who is immature should.

[asd]

childhood hero like to believe everything then was more amazing and magical or more special then anything else.

:oldlol:

ironic how this is coming from the guy with the kobe avatar

arguing for kobe in a non-related thread that's about jordan switching hands

[Desperado]

Nah you sound pretty bitter and/or jealous about something. Overrated? lol. Not that difficult? :oldlol: I gaurantee you couldn't do it.

You're that guy that hated Jordan simply because he won. You are jealous that your other favorite player didn't get the same shine because Jordan overshadowed. I frequently see you calling people delusional and "stans"...just like someone who is immature should.




Nah, I'm just not a blind sheep and media kool-aid drinker like the rest of these clowns.

And why would I hate Jordan for ''winning''? 6 championships is far from the record and I've got to watch my team win 8 championships. It dosen't really matter now because my favorite team and player is getting all the shine right now and I actually have something to actually look at and have a bright present rather than just the past and what was and what used to be like these biter MJ jockers who are angry at the present times and can only hold on to their childhood memories and be nostalgic because they hate the present and are so insecure and worried about the future and fear what could be so they are only concerned about what was.

[Desperado]

:oldlol:

ironic how this is coming from the guy with the kobe avatar

arguing for kobe in a non-related thread that's about jordan switching hands

Actually my avatar is from this years Finals with Derek Fisher and Kobe Bryant their 5th championship. :rockon:

And the Jordan jockers started the argument, I just finished it.

[jstern]

Nah, I'm just not a blind sheep and media kool-aid drinker like the rest of these clowns.

And why would I hate Jordan for ''winning''? 6 championships is far from the record and I've got to watch my team win 8 championships. It dosen't really matter now because my favorite team and player is getting all the shine right now and I actually have something to actully look at and can have a bright present rather than just the past and what was and what used to be like these biter MJ jockers who are angry at the present times and can only hold on to their childhood memories and be nostalgic because they hate the present and are so insecure and worried about the future and what could be so they are only concerned about what was.
Because you're insecure about him being better than Kobe.

[brwnman]

He traveled and it was an unnecessary move...

[Soundwave]

Because you're insecure about him being better than Kobe.

The irony of this whole thing is there probably was never a bigger "Jordan nut hugger" than Kobe Bryant himself, lol.

I'm about the same age as Kobe (a little younger), and it's pretty damn obvious the dude watched and ate up Come Fly With Me and all that NBA licensed stuff over and over and over and over and over again.

I guarantee you Kobe Bryant has watched more Jordan video and spent more time obsessing over Jordan than anyone on this board. And there's nothing wrong with that ... we all knew a kid like that growing up ... a kid who knew he was going to be in the NBA. The only difference is Kobe is the one kid who actually made it.

He mimics a lot of Jordan's "glory moments" with the exact same mannerisms, you just know he's been practicing that stuff on the playground/school gym since he was 9 or 10 years old.

[Desperado]

Because you're insecure about him being better than Kobe.

Not really...

Kobe has 5 rings and the Lakers are favorites to win it all again this upcoming season and if that happens the media will go out of control with the Kobe vs MJ debates more than ever and ESPN is gonna hype Kobe to be the new GOAT and in a few years MJ will just be a player of the past while Kobe will hailed as the present pinnacle of greatness. Similar to how when Jordan was playing and won 6 rings he was hyped as the greatest and everyone loved and worshiped him, sure there were other great past players like Kareem, Magic/Bird etc. but so what they were just yesterdays legend....the same thing will happen with Jordan with today's generation. Everyone is going to praise, love and worship Kobe and Jordan will just yesterday's legend. Yeah he was great but so what..... history always repeats itself


That is the reason MJ fans are so scared and insecure.

[Desperado]

I don't care either way Jordan fans aka ex-Bulls band wagoners can hold on to their 6 titles all they want.

It's not like Bulls or Jordan will ever have 17 championships.

[jstern]

The irony of this whole thing is there probably was never a bigger "Jordan nut hugger" than Kobe Bryant himself, lol.

I'm about the same age as Kobe (a little younger), and it's pretty damn obvious the dude watched and ate up Come Fly With Me and all that NBA licensed stuff over and over and over and over and over again.

He mimics a lot of Jordan's "glory moments" with the exact same mannerisms, you just know he's been practicing that stuff on the playground/school gym since he was 9 or 10 years old.
Phil has talked about Kobe watching those video and practicing the moves. And there's this girl that Kobe dated who said that they would stay home instead of going out and watch those tapes. Which is all good.

I wasn't a Jordan fan, but I had this Bulls vs Knicks video, and I started to copy all of his moves in that game back in 98. I was a bit like Kobe, just much shorter. But yeah, soon you start doing all of Jordan's mannerisms. It just happens naturally when you're studying somebody's game. I remember hitting a shot to win a game, and I celebrated the same way Jordan did when he hit that shot against the Cavs, and hurt my knee a little bit. I became a Jordan fan after he retired, because of his mind, clutch abilities.

[Soundwave]

Not really...

Kobe has 5 rings and the Lakers are favorites to win it all again this upcoming season and if that happens the media will go out of control with the Kobe vs MJ debates more than ever and ESPN is gonna hype Kobe to be the new GOAT and in a few years MJ will just be a player of the past while Kobe will hailed as the present pinnacle of greatness. Similar to how when Jordan was playing and won 6 rings he was hyped as the greatest and everyone loved and worshiped him, sure there were other great past players like Kareem, Magic/Bird etc. but so what they were just yesterdays legend....the same thing will happen with Jordan with today's generation. Everyone is going to praise, love and worship Kobe and Jordan will just yesterday's legend. Yeah he was great but so what..... history always repeats itself


That is the reason MJ fans are so scared and insecure.


Not really, I like Kobe actually personally because I "know" Kobe ... I grew up with kids like that. Kobe is just the kid who actually made it. Kobe is the "lovechild" of the Jordan generation. I don't like his more fanatical fanbase though.

ESPN pushes LeBron. Jordan never needed ESPN, hell where I lived we didn't even get ESPN in the early-mid 90s. It was all NBC on Saturday and Sunday for basketball.

Of course you're aware of the irony of your own statement, because the same will happen to Kobe ... eventually, and probably soon, he will be "yesterday's news". That's what Kobe fans really are the ones making the most fuss about LeBron's decision (outside of the obvious people who actually give a crap about Cleveland, but lol at these phonies who really don't give two-shits about Ohio acting with their mock outrage).

[JustinJDW]

The shot isn't famous because of its difficutly, even though it was a fairly difficult shot. Most athletic SG's should be able to do that, but thats not why its famous. Its famous because it was the Finals and Jordan had just made 12 field goals straight, and now 13. Jordan was in absolute beast mode. It had gotten to the point like he was playing around.

Thats why its famous. I'm sure a lot of people can do that move, but I don't think many guys can go 13-13 in the Finals, while doing somewhat circus shots like that one. He was indeed, "on fire."

[thejumpa]

I don't care either way Jordan fans aka ex-Bulls band wagoners can hold on to their 6 titles all they want.

It's not like Bulls or Jordan will ever have 17 championships.

Question...why do you always attack MJ fans? You call them delusional, stans, and downplay just about everything. No one is insecure about Kobe Bryant. It's not that serious. A player of the past? That's some an 18 year would say. Matter of fact, I think you have branslowski syndrome aka I'm older but act like I'm younger because I'm on the internet. Calm on, now..

By the looks of your posts, it's not the championships that you hate so much. It's the fact that so many appoint him the greatest therefore just about everything he has done is magnified 100x and celebrated. People like to revisit great times in sports. Especially when it pertains to a player that was so widely liked.

[beermonsteroo]

After reading this thread,i once and for all know that discussing with the Kobe homers is simply useless. Really this not funny any more. Talking about baskteball with the Kobe homers is like going to Christopher Street day with Tim Hardaway

[Desperado]

Not really, I like Kobe actually personally because I "know" Kobe ... I grew up with kids like that. Kobe is just the kid who actually made it. I don't like his more fanatical fanbase though.

ESPN pushes LeBron. Jordan never needed ESPN, hell where I lived we didn't even get ESPN in the early-mid 90s. It was all NBC on Saturday and Sunday for basketball.

Of course you're aware of the irony of your own statement, because the same will happen to Kobe ... eventually, and probably soon, he will be "yesterday's news". That's what Kobe fans really are the ones making the most fuss about LeBron's decision (outside of the obvious people who actually give a crap about Cleveland, but lol at these phonies who really don't give two-shits about Ohio acting with their mock outrage).

Well actually I thought it could have possibly been Lebron. The media loved and praised Lebron before and he was hyped as ''the next best'' and the ''potential GOAT''.

It's too bad it might not happen now because the way he is viewed now because of the whole decision non-sense and his recent antics. So many people dislike him now and view him differently and even think he may have quiet on his team in the playoffs and believe he toke the easy way out, joining another superstars team. He's the #1 heel and everyone will be rooting against him and Miami and a lot of people who didn't like the lakers before are now cheering for Kobe and the Lakers now and hope that they will beat them.

[Soundwave]

Well actually I thought it have possibly been Lebron. The media loved and praised Lebron before and he was hyped as ''the next best'' and the ''potential GOAT''.

It's too bad it might not happen now because the way he is viewed now because of the whole decision non-sense and his recent antics. So many people dislike him now and view him differently and even think he may have quiet on his team in the playoffs and believe he toke the easy way out, joining another superstars team. He's the #1 heel and everyone will be rooting against him and Miami and a lot of people who didn't like the lakers before are now cheering for Kobe and the Lakers now and hope that they will beat them.

People cling to this like a security blanket, but really when LeBron wins his first title (errr ... if) no one's going to give a sh-t about any of that.

History repeats, you said it yourself. 5 years from now, this summer will be a distant, distant memory in basketball terms.

Kobe and Jordan had plenty of haters too. I mean hell, the Kobe rape-trial thing makes the whole LeBron thing look like small potatoes.

I don't think you could manufacture a bigger PR melt down than that if you even tried. Eventually everything just blows over. People hate to say it ... but one day, LeBron will get his chance the run the show too.

It's just how these things work out. You can be in denial about it all you want though, lol.

[jstern]

Not really...

Kobe has 5 rings and the Lakers are favorites to win it all again this upcoming season and if that happens the media will go out of control with the Kobe vs MJ debates more than ever and ESPN is gonna hype Kobe to be the new GOAT and in a few years MJ will just be a player of the past while Kobe will hailed as the present pinnacle of greatness. Similar to how when Jordan was playing and won 6 rings he was hyped as the greatest and everyone loved and worshiped him, sure there were other great past players like Kareem, Magic/Bird etc. but so what they were just yesterdays legend....the same thing will happen with Jordan with today's generation. Everyone is going to praise, love and worship Kobe and Jordan will just yesterday's legend. Yeah he was great but so what..... history always repeats itself


That is the reason MJ fans are so scared and insecure.
Nope. When Jordan retired the 1st time he was consider the GOAT. Kobe is just not at that level, heck he's only around number 10. Also, it seems that you're too young, but Jordan's fame has died down a lot, maybe not here, but it has. So if Jordan's fame has died down like this, imagine Kobe. It's the nature of things. Even look at Shaq, people forget how dominant he was, and there are even young Kobe fans who don't even know that Shaq was the man during the 3 peat. They think it was Kobe. (Because they don't really consider age, because they can't relate to getting older, so in their mind current Shaq = prime Shaq) Then you have Lebron. His numbers are just so much better than Kobe's. Lebrons stats are just going to kill Kobe after he retires. Superstars get forgotten. Kobe hasn't had the career Jordan has had. Young people like yourself tend to look at things as if they started when they started watching basketball. Kids look at Kobe and other superstars as if they are a new phenomenon, not knowing that past generations had superstar. Kobe is just a Super Stars, and the NBA has a lot of past super stars. So unless he dominated an era the same way a Wilt Chamberlain or Michael Jordan did, he's just going to go down the path of other super stars. ISH is a different world, but outside of here where people talk about basketball daily and get information about past players from each other, for the most part most of the top 10 players are forgotten. Back in the 90s, I never saw Dr. J play, but he was a big name, and the other kids my age knew that Dr J was a big name. But kids now have no idea. Hey, Dr J was big in 70s, now they know nothing about him. The same will happen with Kobe.

[StarJordan]

I think you're nuts. Kobe's move was more difficult

Jordan used to do what Kobe's move is in just about EVERY game. No big deal. Maximum Kobe's is a double clutch. Jordan did a TRIPLE clutch in 1987 game against Nets.

[Soundwave]

If you want to talk about individual acrobatics, Vince Carter has done stuff and can do things that neither Jordan or Kobe could do.

Who really cares though?

[jstern]

If you want to talk about individual acrobatics, Vince Carter has done stuff and can do things that neither Jordan or Kobe could do.

Who really cares though?
Vince is the GOAT dunker and one of my favorite players ever since he got traded to the Nets. But he can't dunk from behind the free throw line.

[Soundwave]

Vince is the GOAT dunker and one of my favorite players ever since he got traded to the Nets. But he can't dunk from behind the free throw line.

He's done things in games that neither Michael or Kobe could. Dominique probably has too.

That's why that whole "OMG, that move wasn't even that hard dooood" thing is stupid.

If you can't understand the context of the moment ... when it happened, how it happened, what it meant ... then you have no clue.

If you're just basing things on athletic difficulty ... I mean sh*t, J.R. Smith has probably done some crazy move in a game. Who cares.

[jstern]

He's done things in games that neither Michael or Kobe could. Dominique probably has too.

That's why that whole "OMG, that move wasn't even that hard dooood" thing is stupid.

If you can't understand the context of the moment ... when it happened, how it happened, what it meant ... then you have no clue.

If you're just basing things on athletic difficulty ... I mean sh*t, J.R. Smith has probably done some crazy move in a game. Who cares.
I read your post wrong, I thought you said something to the effect that Carter can do everything Jordan has been able to do, and that's why I mentioned the free throw line.

But let me add that Jordan was very athletic, great footwork, and could jump higher than Vince, so it's not far fetch to think that he can emulate any dunks that Vince has done. Just because Jordan never tried doing a reverse 360 doesn't mean that he was incapable of doing it. If someone in the future comes out with a never before seen dunk doesn't mean that Vince Carter would have been incapable of doing that dunk.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Nope. When Jordan retired the 1st time he was consider the GOAT. Kobe is just not at that level, heck he's only around number 10. Also, it seems that you're too young, but Jordan's fame has died down a lot, maybe not here, but it has. So if Jordan's fame has died down like this, imagine Kobe. It's the nature of things. Even look at Shaq, people forget how dominant he was, and there are even young Kobe fans who don't even know that Shaq was the man during the 3 peat. They think it was Kobe. (Because they don't really consider age, because they can't relate to getting older, so in their mind current Shaq = prime Shaq) Then you have Lebron. His numbers are just so much better than Kobe's. Lebrons stats are just going to kill Kobe after he retires. Superstars get forgotten. Kobe hasn't had the career Jordan has had. Young people like yourself tend to look at things as if they started when they started watching basketball. Kids look at Kobe and other superstars as if they are a new phenomenon, not knowing that past generations had superstar. Kobe is just a Super Stars, and the NBA has a lot of past super stars. So unless he dominated an era the same way a Wilt Chamberlain or Michael Jordan did, he's just going to go down the path of other super stars. ISH is a different world, but outside of here where people talk about basketball daily and get information about past players from each other, for the most part most of the top 10 players are forgotten. Back in the 90s, I never saw Dr. J play, but he was a big name, and the other kids my age knew that Dr J was a big name. But kids now have no idea. Hey, Dr J was big in 70s, now they know nothing about him. The same will happen with Kobe.

Jstern, for the record I'm actually in agreement with you. However, I think it also partly depends on what Bryant is able to accomplish with the time he has left. Winning is Numero Uno and doing it as the first option makes it a full deck. I doubt he has the staying power stardom of Jordan no matter what, but there are various ways he could separate himself from being 'just another superstar' and in a lot of ways he already has or is extremely close to doing so.

[whatever666]

I just cant seem to find it that attractive as its made out to be, its nice and all but very overrated play.... totally uncontested play and totally unnecessary switch of hands... open lane, he just jumps, puts the ball in his left hand mid air and lays it up.... :confusedshrug:

[Solid Snake]

Man, this play has GOT to be THE most overrated "special" move in history. Yeah, it's a cool move to watch, but damn, it's not that special. In fact, I STILL don't buy his theory as to why he switched hands, he claims he saw what's his face attempting to block? No HANDS even came CLOSE to blocking him.

Whatever. Greatest player in history, I can't wait till 2K11.

[Soundwave]

A.C. Green was about to jump to try and challenge the shot but he basically bailed on the play, lol. MJ was anticipating he'd try to block the shot.

Kinda reminded me of this Tim Hardaway commentary on a Jordan dunk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Ut_M2L2AA

lol

[Pointguard]

Picasso in the garden of Eden.. it's not basketball it's ballet.. :facepalm

No, its over your head.

Grace is grace. Some people can see it quicker than others and some just never get it - like you.

Why do you think Kobe spent his teen years and his young 20's in his house watching Jordan??? Do you think everybody does this??? Are you telling me he wasn't totally abosorded by him??? He had to be captivated and seeing things that aparently you don't.

[StarJordan]

I just cant seem to find it that attractive as its made out to be, its nice and all but very overrated play.... totally uncontested play and totally unnecessary switch of hands... open lane, he just jumps, puts the ball in his left hand mid air and lays it up..

They were blowing away Magic Johnson and showtime lakers out of the stadium in the nba finals...this wasn't a preseason game, this was the NBA Finals...mike had hit 12 straight shots and this was just to punctuate what was happening....bulls will beat lakers with left hand now....it was the exclamation mark for the passing of the torch, bulls were going to be new champs and that Jordan was the King. Unchallenged #1.

[Stringer Bell]

It was a great play but there's been quite a few better. Hell, Jordan himself has better ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RZarvayu_o#t=1m1s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3rrROU2xNc#t=6m15s

[Maniak]

I love how you guys are even giving that Kobe 4 Life guy a chance...

[Round Mound]

the kobe play is more difficult.
MJ's is unecessary. he could have lay in the ball with the right hand. that's phil's face means i think. but in the context of the game, MJ was giving the lesson, he had something like 14/19 FG...just jordanesque!
and yeah OP, the other angle make the move soooo beautiful.

[B]That

[FP10]

Tonnes of Jordan haters, damn you can't just enjoy the play without bringing up this and that. hard to satisfy you guys...

[OldSchoolBBall]

but in the context of the game, MJ was giving the lesson, he had something like 14/19 FG...just jordanesque!


15-18 FG that game, actually. 13 makes in a row.

[FP10]

tracy mcgrady on the move. some different angles too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1cuG0H_2Q

you see it might be unnecessary but it was pretty mean move.

[YAWN]

it does look cool in slow motion :confusedshrug:

[Scott Baker]

I said during the move itself dumbass. And look at Jordan's body position when he has to throw his shot. You call that graceful?

Kobe release his shot while being straight up, both hands on the ball like a regular jumpshot. MJ was awkwardly leaning forward, almost under the rim and had to throw it over his shoulder/back.

The landing is part of the move. Have you never seen gymnastics?

[Scott Baker]

If you want to make it personal then you can f**k off and die. Not only did he leave Courtney Lee in the dust but the defensive player of the year Dwight Howard contested the shot. Jordan was essentially alone and untouched. Everybody with two eyes can see that. Your argument sucks, and you, as a human being, suck. Kiss my balls.

:oldlol: Cry me a river. You're just angry that an awkward looking double clutch shot won't be as remembered as a Jordan layup.

[Phong]

No, its over your head.

Grace is grace. Some people can see it quicker than others and some just never get it - like you.

Why do you think Kobe spent his teen years and his young 20's in his house watching Jordan??? Do you think everybody does this??? Are you telling me he wasn't totally abosorded by him??? He had to be captivated and seeing things that aparently you don't.Stop sucking MJ's **** for 2 seconds and let some fresh air oxygenate what's left of your single neurone. We are discussing one single play and not what made Jordan the player that he was. That play shows good athleticism and eye-hand coordination to release the shot in such awkward position, but ballet-like gracefulness.. please!

http://nsa20.casimages.com/img/2010/09/02/100902090726479019.gif
Baryshnikov? :facepalm

[Phong]

The landing is part of the move. Have you never seen gymnastics?Jstern argued that Kobe's SHOT was awkward but MJ's was "artistic". The slo-mo replay shows that during his move to dodge Dwight and release his SHOT, he had good body position. Only after he landed did he slid across the floor; well after the shot. That was my point.

Are you trying to tell me Jordan's off-balance prayer thrown over his shoulder while being uncontested wasn't an awkward shot?

[miller-time]

Nope. When Jordan retired the 1st time he was consider the GOAT. Kobe is just not at that level, heck he's only around number 10. Also, it seems that you're too young, but Jordan's fame has died down a lot, maybe not here, but it has. So if Jordan's fame has died down like this, imagine Kobe. It's the nature of things. Even look at Shaq, people forget how dominant he was, and there are even young Kobe fans who don't even know that Shaq was the man during the 3 peat. They think it was Kobe. (Because they don't really consider age, because they can't relate to getting older, so in their mind current Shaq = prime Shaq) Then you have Lebron. His numbers are just so much better than Kobe's. Lebrons stats are just going to kill Kobe after he retires. Superstars get forgotten. Kobe hasn't had the career Jordan has had. Young people like yourself tend to look at things as if they started when they started watching basketball. Kids look at Kobe and other superstars as if they are a new phenomenon, not knowing that past generations had superstar. Kobe is just a Super Stars, and the NBA has a lot of past super stars. So unless he dominated an era the same way a Wilt Chamberlain or Michael Jordan did, he's just going to go down the path of other super stars. ISH is a different world, but outside of here where people talk about basketball daily and get information about past players from each other, for the most part most of the top 10 players are forgotten. Back in the 90s, I never saw Dr. J play, but he was a big name, and the other kids my age knew that Dr J was a big name. But kids now have no idea. Hey, Dr J was big in 70s, now they know nothing about him. The same will happen with Kobe.


that is so true. repped.

[Batz]

Jstern argued that Kobe's SHOT was awkward but MJ's was "artistic". The slo-mo replay shows that during his move to dodge Dwight and release his SHOT, he had good body position. Only after he landed did he slid across the floor; well after the shot. That was my point.

Are you trying to tell me Jordan's off-balance prayer thrown over his shoulder while being uncontested wasn't an awkward shot?
It was Picasso in motion bitch!







srsly can't believe this thread is still going.

[momo]

It was Picasso in motion bitch!







srsly can't believe this thread is still going.

Yea, no kidding.

http://images.quickblogcast.com/61694-54138/Thread_Killer_Cap____funny,_geek.jpg

[SilkyJohnson]

Yeah, but can he switch his hands when he's taking a leak without causing unwanted splashage with the same grace and presence of mind he displayed on court? Huh? I don't think so. Greatest of all time my ass.

[Pointguard]

Stop sucking MJ's **** for 2 seconds and let some fresh air oxygenate what's left of your single neurone. We are discussing one single play and not what made Jordan the player that he was. That play shows good athleticism and eye-hand coordination to release the shot in such awkward position, but ballet-like gracefulness.. please!

http://nsa20.casimages.com/img/2010/09/02/100902090726479019.gif
Baryshnikov? :facepalm Wow, you really sound disjointed and crazy now. Who said ballet gracefulness? Who said it made him the player he is? Are you going thru something? Your avatar looks more sane than you sound.

LOL, do you really think that there might be somebody else on this planet or universe, that has studied MJ more than Kobe? Taking dates out as a 20 year old to see MJ tapes isn't normal behavior. In fact do you know of any other man that has studied another man like Kobe did MJ. I doubt that anybody on this board is a bigger fan of MJ.

[Phong]

Wow, you really sound disjointed and crazy now. Who said ballet gracefulness? Who said it made him the player he is? Are you going thru something? Your avatar looks more sane than you sound.Who said ballet-like gracefulness? Why don't you read the topic again. Actually your single neurone is not enough for you to find it so here it is (page 8):

"The Jordan play was ballet-like... The Kobe play [...] is a nice play, but it's a basketball play."

If you want to quote me when I replied to that person then stay on topic you moron. Don't barge in on an argument and then go on tangents about Kobe watching tapes.

Here's your original post addressed to me: here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4798624&postcount=168)

"Grace is grace blah blah blah Why do you think Kobe watching tapes of MJ?"

To which I replied that if Kobe watched tapes of MJ it was certainly not because of the "grace" displayed on that particular play but for all the things that made MJ a great player (ball handling, footwork, jumpshot, athleticism, killer instinct, etc...). "We are discussing one single play and not what made Jordan the player that he was."

But if your argument wasn't about grace then learn how to ****ing write a logical argument and how to use rethorical questions instead of going on a ridiculous tangents.


LOL, do you really think that there might be somebody else on this planet or universe, that has studied MJ more than Kobe? Taking dates out as a 20 year old to see MJ tapes isn't normal behavior. In fact do you know of any other man that has studied another man like Kobe did MJ. I doubt that anybody on this board is a bigger fan of MJ.What does that have to do with me replying to the ridiculous Picasso and ballet comment? ****ing idiot. Learn how to read, comprehend what you read, and stay on point.

But to answer your question regarding a loser who spent his life watching tapes of MJ: this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er-WxUUKcL0).

[Blue&Orange]

Just what we needed... another thread do prove once again the Kobe is the most overrated player in the history of the game and the low IQ of kobe stans...

[imdaman99]

Just what we needed... another thread to prove once again that MJ is the most overrated player in the history of the game and the low IQ of MJ stans...

:lol

Seriously who cares, it was a very nice looking play. It looked cooler than the Kobe play. But no one can prove that MJ > Kobe. Yeah show me stats, but they never played in each other's prime so you can try to shove that down my throat but it won't mean a damn thing. They are both all time greats.

[andgar923]

Some have already mentioned it, but since there's many that continue to spew the same thing over and over.

MJ's switch of hands shot is not even one of his top 20 best shots.

However, it is one of his most iconic.

What does that mean?

One has to consider several factors.

A. The stage... it was his first Finals against Magic Johnson at that.
B. The moment..... he had hit 12 shots in a row
C. The call.... Yes the call help make it more memorable

If some of you were actually old enough to remember that 'moment', like the rest of the world, you would've been excited or even jumped out of your seat when it happened.

Sure.... looking at it now over and over it doesn't seem as impressive, specially compared to other shots. But when it happened 'live' it was memorable.

Just like a fg kick in a Super Bowl to win the game, it is about 'the moment'.

Is Christian Laettner's shot to win the game the most impressive shot ever? NO

But its memorable due to the 'moment' and the circumstances surrounding that moment.

Of course there are dozens and dozens of MJ shots that were more difficult, but not many were as momentous or came at a specific moment.

[Replay32]

This was an amazing play by an amazing player. And I would agree. Kobe is the biggest Jordan fan I've seen.

[no pun intended]

This was an amazing play by an amazing player. And I would agree. Kobe is the biggest Jordan fan I've seen.
Agreed. Start at around 2:02. Kobe tries to avoid talking about comparing himself to MJ because he already knows he is the greatest of all-time. Kobe wants to build his own legacy apart from Jordan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd6pFym05Y4&NR=1

[nnn123]

I love how someone posts a clip of Jordan....

and then the 1st response is some Kobe fanboy posting a "better" move :lol

Seriously you can't help it can you.....will you just STFU?

[New York Knicks]

Just what we needed... another thread to prove once again that MJ is the most overrated player in the history of the game and the low IQ of MJ stans...

:lol

Seriously who cares, it was a very nice looking play. It looked cooler than the Kobe play. But no one can prove that MJ > Kobe. Yeah show me stats, but they never played in each other's prime so you can try to shove that down my throat but it won't mean a damn thing. They are both all time greats.
LOL. Kobe's lucky to be mentioned in the same breath.

On a serious note, stop with the terrorism.

[Bladers]

Why Is this thread still going on?
Let me end it quickly.

Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzsvbheXscg

Watch the Reply closely!

You talk about artistic?

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Kobe%20Bryant/z%20Gifs%20of%20Kobe%20Bryant/kbwow.gif

[eliteballer]

Of course its a great shot. Ask yourself how many players in the league could do it today.

[Pointguard]

Who said ballet-like gracefulness? Why don't you read the topic again. Actually your single neurone is not enough for you to find it so here it is (page 8):

"The Jordan play was ballet-like... The Kobe play [...] is a nice play, but it's a basketball play."

If you want to quote me when I replied to that person then stay on topic you moron. Don't barge in on an argument and then go on tangents about Kobe watching tapes.
You sound even more disjointed and crazy now. You ain't on topic you are a little off. You get really hyped and upset and your avatar is a clown.



To which I replied that if Kobe watched tapes of MJ it was certainly not because of the "grace" displayed on that particular play but for all the things that made MJ a great player (ball handling, footwork, jumpshot, athleticism, killer instinct, etc...). "We are discussing one single play and not what made Jordan the player that he was."

But if your argument wasn't about grace then learn how to ****ing write a logical argument and how to use rethorical questions instead of going on a ridiculous tangents. LOL, ROFL, Hahahaha, He watches the videos because he is captivated. The questions show you the extent in which MJ brings people in. I say, "Are you telling me he wasn't totally abosorded by him??? He had to be captivated and seeing things that aparently you don't." You know you don't bring your date to your imitation party, at least I hope not. You are a professional and rival to a guy and you take your girl to watch him go to work or LOL, as you say ball handling, etc. If he thought Jordan was artistic and graceful, at least he can play it off.


What does that have to do with me replying to the ridiculous Picasso and ballet comment? ****ing idiot. Learn how to read, comprehend what you read, and stay on point.You don't know what captivates people. Grace is not a concept you probably pay attention to like other people - I mean look at your avatar. Who are you to say what people should like or dislike? The play is signature in the sport - your dislike isn't going to change a thing. We can bring you up to speed on the obvious notion that its not about difficulty or necessity. But you got to at least get there.



But to answer your question regarding a loser who spent his life watching tapes of MJ: this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er-WxUUKcL0).
Well, I never said you didn't have a sense of humor.

[Pointguard]

Why Is this thread still going on?
Let me end it quickly.

Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzsvbheXscg

Watch the Reply closely!

You talk about artistic?

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Kobe%20Bryant/z%20Gifs%20of%20Kobe%20Bryant/kbwow.gif

I like the one that is embedded. Yes, that's grace. Now I want to see him part the red sea like Moses and switch to his left hand just because.

[KevinDurant4MVP]

Why Is this thread still going on?
Let me end it quickly.

Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzsvbheXscg

Watch the Reply closely!

You talk about artistic?

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Kobe%20Bryant/z%20Gifs%20of%20Kobe%20Bryant/kbwow.gif



/ thread

[Scott Baker]

/ thread

Ray Allen's lay up in the '08 finals was better.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

You talk about artistic?

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Kobe%20Bryant/z%20Gifs%20of%20Kobe%20Bryant/kbwow.gif

Wow. Contested shot, great body control. Very artistic. Not like that unecessary, uncontested shot in the OP. I'm supposed to be impressed because somebody changed hands? lol

Kobe wins again

[aau]

What about this play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3rrROU2xNc

6:20 in.
that was rediculous

[rammerman]

did not read....but i prefer the move kobe had in the lane against D Howard in the finals....

can't find the link, but it was a sick sick move

[PaPaK]

Hummm.. straight line to the basket uncontested lay-up vs. splitting a double team and going head-to-head against the DPOY and making him look like a fool.

Tough choice.
cant argue this really.

[Johnni Gade]

Prime Jordan.