1 vote for the hall of fame: Ray Allen or Paul Pierce

[Duranthebest]

vote/discuss

IMO, Pierce easily

Pierce 1
Allen 0

[N0Skillz]

this shouldn't be a thread. Of course Allen has done alot but Pierce is on a different level.

[Ruh-Roh]

vote/discuss

IMO, Pierce easily

Pierce 1
Allen 0

No way, Ray Allen and it isn't even close.

[tpols]

Paul Pierce is a much better player. He was/is a true leader.

[PurpleChuck]

Truth.

[Toizumi]

Pierce, but it's a bit closer than some posters make it out to be (and I'm Pierce fan).

Yes, Pierce is arguably better at most facets of the game (playmaking, scoring, defense, rebounding), but Allen has been as big a superstar as Pierce throughout his career.

Allen played with some good talent in Milwaukee (Cassell and Robinson), but he was the star of that team. In Seattle he somewhat shared the spotlight with Rashard Lewis, but he was the franchise player and the team leader.
He carried a surprising Seattle team to the playoffs somewhere at the midway part of the decade and did so greatly. He was the man for Seattle and he made the big shots. At that point I think that most people ranked Allen and Pierce even in terms of value - Pierce had a bigger skillset, but Allen used what he had (shooting!) to the fullest.
Pierce always had the better stats, and more complete game though.

Allen (9 time all star) has declined a bit over the years and Pierce (8 time all star) has been the floor leader of the Celtics (him and KG).. and like I said, Pierce has always a more complete game (and a finals MVP). So my vote goes to Pierce.. Still though, Allen deserves some love.

[hitmanyr2k]

Tough choice. Both players have a lot in common. Neither have ever been considered an "elite" player considering they have zero All-NBA first team selections to their credit. I think both players only have one All-NBA second team out of their 10+ year careers and a few All-NBA third teams which to me is Chris Bosh third-tier level of stardom. Neither have any All-Defense selections. They both scored a lot of points on bad/mediocre teams and went through playoff droughts before ending up on a team together. I guess you have to go with Pierce since he won a Finals MVP and all but honestly neither deserve to be in the HOF at the moment.

[Raziball]

Pierce for me just for the FMVP. And i do know it could have gone both ways.

[caliballer]

IMO this isn't even a contest. Pierce wins this one easily.

[nek1477]

Ray allen, One of the Purest Shooters in NBA history, hells a few 3point records, 9 time allstar (paul 8) both won a chip, career 20 point average, 45% fg 39.6% 3pt and 89.6 ft. If you question his leadership look back at the supersonics and Milwaukee days, they made deep playoff runs because of him. give it up for jesus :bowdown: and paul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysT8RA6JQks

[lukekarts]

Both effective scorers in their prime, but I give the nod to Pierce, because his all round game is better. Sure, he's not LeBron James, but he's probably the second best 'all round'* SF in the NBA.

*by 'all round', I mean in terms of being the complete package - good offensive game from the perimter right up to the basket, good defense, good rebounding, good passing etc.

[Duranthebest]

Pierce 9
Allen 2

I agree with some of you here that this shouldn't even be a debate. IMO, Ray Allen has never been the caliber player that Pierce is. With the exception of 3 pointers, Ray Allen has hasn't done anything Pierce hasn't done more. Allen has about 1,000 more points scored, but he's been in the league 2 more seasons.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Just to piss off Spud... Allen

In all seriousness, Pierce, because he is the more complete player, one of the top 5 Celtics in history, and has the championship as the 1a/b guy.

[franchise#3]

Ray Allen, I think he is underrated because he played a lot for small market teams.

[jaydacris]

id say pierce, biggest reasons being
1) he has a finals mvp
2) has a slightly better peak/best season
3) one team whole career so far, that team being the celtics helps too

but ray allen is still a boss, he had to change his game/style the most when the celtics big three(four) formed

this is one of my favorite ray allen games:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9aWEZxuNQw

sick shots, and crazy game winner

[Flamboyant]

As players it might be arguable who is better (IMO Ray is), and they certainly will both make it. But if only one of them was going to make it, leaving the GOAT 3pt shooter out would a much bigger travesty. Easily Ray for me.

[JohnnySic]

I'm a Celtics fan, I've seen plenty of both, and PP is flat-out better. Allen just looks better when he goes on one of his unconcious shooting streaks.

[LBJ_MVP09]

To say it's not even close is retarded, and i'm guessing that it's coming from people who have only seen Ray play for the C's. Allen deserved the FMVP just as much as PP did, and they have similar peaks. (See some Bucks/Sonics games). Add in the fact that Ray is without a doubt in the top 3 for best NBA 3P shooter ever, and I personally would give it to Ray Ray by a slight margin.

[Duranthebest]

To say it's not even close is retarded, and i'm guessing that it's coming from people who have only seen Ray play for the C's. Allen deserved the FMVP just as much as PP did, and they have similar peaks. (See some Bucks/Sonics games). Add in the fact that Ray is without a doubt in the top 3 for best NBA 3P shooter ever, and I personally would give it to Ray Ray by a slight margin.

Well, it's not. Being the top scorer in NBA history means something. Top rebounder and being the assist leader means something. Top 3 point shooter? I think not. Check out the top 5 3 point shooters of all-time:

Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Dale Ellis
Peja Storiachavic(spl)
Jason Kidd

Not a glaring list, right? Not a lot of prestiges name, eh?

Ray Allen has never been the caliber player Pierce is. The only thing he has over Pierce 3pt shooting. I don't have to go back to Ray's Bucks/Sonics days find a player that was never as good as Pierce. You can't say Ray Allen deserved being the finals MVP when Pierce won the award unanimously, that's retarded.

[Ruh-Roh]

To say it's not even close is retarded, and i'm guessing that it's coming from people who have only seen Ray play for the C's. Allen deserved the FMVP just as much as PP did, and they have similar peaks. (See some Bucks/Sonics games). Add in the fact that Ray is without a doubt in the top 3 for best NBA 3P shooter ever, and I personally would give it to Ray Ray by a slight margin.

I watched Ray on the Bucks a little after seeing He Got Game, the Sonics a little more, but not much. Looking at it again it's closer than I made it out to be. I don't think Pierce deserved that FMVP, but understand/respect the reasons behind him getting it.

For me, Ray Allen has had the most evolution as a player, and completely dominated at one aspect of it (3's) and I just like him a lot more to be honest, so don't take my hyperbole too seriously.

[dyna]

Allen.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Paul Pierce

[The_Yearning]

The TRUTH.

Both of these guys are getting in way before Vince does.

[nycelt84]

Pierce

[New York Knicks]

Ray Allen. He was robbed of that Finals MVP.

[Papaya Petee]

Ray Allen. The amount of times he just destroyed teams with his clutch and timing 3's is a thing of beauty.

[L.Kizzle]

Walter

[Bigsmoke]

what with this thraed? we all know that Pierce is the superior player

[LAClipsFan33]

I'd pick Ray. He's one of the best shooters in the history of the game. Paul isn't one of the best anything although he's a great player in his own right. His Finals MVP is impressive, but I feel like Ray was just as impressive in the series.

[DeeDee]

Ray Allen easily.

[jalbert009]

Paul Pierce is a better all around player.
Allen is the better 3 pt shooter and and can potentially surpass reggie millers record and be the GOAT 3pt shooter.

Similar resume's except for the FMVP Pierce has which IMO could have gone to either of the Big 3. KG and Allen were just as deserving IMO.

Allen for me.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Let's all just start saying Allen to piss off Spud's dumbass. Allen.

[AJ2k8]

Ray Allen for me, have to respect the sharp shooter:applause:

[Duranthebest]

what with this thraed? we all know that Pierce is the superior player

Most of us do. It's funny, 90% of the people in this thread picked Ray Allen for stupid reasons. Ex. The post above me.

Kid can't tell me anything Ray Allen has do e better/done more than Pierce except shoot 3s, so he says got to respect the sharpshooter like a monkey. Kid, do you know what your sharpshooter shot in the finals? Do you know how many times he's had bad shooting series with the Celtics?

[Duranthebest]

And they don't have similar resumes. Pierce's catalog is much better, plus the fact that Pierce has always been head and shoulders a better player.

[Boston C's]

I'm giving my vote to ray I think that him being the 3 point king gives him a slight edge over pierce... by my count its 17-15 for ray but you can argue either player... for those who say that its ray or pierce and its not even close cant argue that because it is and you cant go wrong with either pick

[Dbrog]

Well, it's not. Being the top scorer in NBA history means something. Top rebounder and being the assist leader means something. Top 3 point shooter? I think not. Check out the top 5 3 point shooters of all-time:

Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Dale Ellis
Peja Storiachavic(spl)
Jason Kidd

Not a glaring list, right? Not a lot of prestiges name, eh?

Ray Allen has never been the caliber player Pierce is. The only thing he has over Pierce 3pt shooting. I don't have to go back to Ray's Bucks/Sonics days find a player that was never as good as Pierce. You can't say Ray Allen deserved being the finals MVP when Pierce won the award unanimously, that's retarded.

Did people even watch Ray's Bucks days (his best years IMO...though you could argue the Seattle playoff year)? Back then, when Pierce was stinking it up with Walker (both were considered major chuckers), Ray was putting up beast numbers. Ray was DEFINITELY seen as much better than Pierce back then. Now, of course, it's easier to say Pierce because his game has aged better. It's like...do people think all Ray did was shoot outside shots? You know those little crazy reverse layups or high-difficulty switch hand layups that he pulls out of his ass occasionally nowadays? Those were commonplace for him when he was young. :bowdown: Ray Allen.

[Boston C's]

Did people even watch Ray's Bucks days (his best years IMO...though you could argue the Seattle playoff year)? Back then, when Pierce was stinking it up with Walker (both were considered major chuckers), Ray was putting up beast numbers. Ray was DEFINITELY seen as much better than Pierce back then. Now, of course, it's easier to say Pierce because his game has aged better. It's like...do people think all Ray did was shoot outside shots? You know those little crazy reverse layups or high-difficulty switch hand layups that he pulls out of his ass occasionally nowadays? Those were commonplace for him when he was young. :bowdown: Ray Allen.

I hear you everyone sees him as a spot up shooter and its annoying but back in the buck days and sonics he was doin a little bit of everything and was really athletic too

[swi7ch]

Ray, easily.

All-time 3s leader.

[Smoke117]

Ray Allen.

[Hittin_Shots]

I'm Quite sure DuranttheBest has only seen Ray in celtics where his game has fallen off more than PP... Ray was an all-round player in former years, he's a spot up shooter because that's what was best for the celtics. Stop being a Pierce ******ger and sayin it aint even close..

[Boston C's]

I'm Quite sure DuranttheBest has only seen Ray in celtics where his game has fallen off more than PP... Ray was an all-round player in former years, he's a spot up shooter because that's what was best for the celtics. Stop being a Pierce ******ger and sayin it aint even close..

I'm with you on that... like i said i gave my vote to ray but that doesnt mean that im going to bash ppl if they say pierce because you can make an argument for pierce easily but it is most definitely close and i dont think you can go wrong with either player

[ace23]

I would give Ray the edge because of his truly legendary shooting touch. He shot 95% from the FT line one season and is 40% from 3 for his career. He is one of very few players to accomplish those feats as well as carry his team and create shots for others.

[DJmicah]

As players it might be arguable who is better (IMO Ray is), and they certainly will both make it. But if only one of them was going to make it, leaving the GOAT 3pt shooter out would a much bigger travesty. Easily Ray for me.
this

[imlmf]

this shouldn't be a thread. Of course Allen has done alot but Pierce is on a different level.


lol
please tell me what has pierce done that puts him on a different level?

both led an unsuccessful team to no where, pierce had virtually no success until the old 3 joined forces, just like ray allen

i'm fan for neither but at least ray allen is the all time leader in 3s made

[williams012]

id give it to pierce but only just.

sure he has the finals mvp but allen has the record for most 3 pointers ever made which is an amazing feat as well. also the 3 point record is something that isnt subjective like a fmvp. its clear cut and cannot be disputed. whereas with the fmvp someone can argue that this person or that person deserved it more ...

its pretty close but gimme pierce due to his level of play being higher, just.

[Boston C's]

id give it to pierce but only just.

sure he has the finals mvp but allen has the record for most 3 pointers ever made which is an amazing feat as well. also the 3 point record is something that isnt subjective like a fmvp. its clear cut and cannot be disputed. whereas with the fmvp someone can argue that this person or that person deserved it more ...

its pretty close but gimme pierce due to his level of play being higher, just.

Respectable opinion and I cant argue what you said... I just hate the ppl who say its allen and its not close or its pierce and its not close because it really is

[iggy>]

Ray Allen by a good margin. Might be the best shooter in NBA history.

[williams012]

Respectable opinion and I cant argue what you said... I just hate the ppl who say its allen and its not close or its pierce and its not close because it really is

thanks!

i saw a couple of your comments about people saying its an easily pierce or easily allen decision.

i agree with you, its not as clear cut as some make out it. i can easily see someones reason for picking allen instead!

[Butters]

Ray Allen.He is one of the best shooters the NBA will ever see.
He is also the 3 point King.

[Disaprine]

Ray Allen by a good margin. Might be the best shooter in NBA history.
this

[Boston C's]

well looks like durantthebest will be extremely upset by this vote outcome lol

[sundizz]

Paul Pierce by a hair. Both have been a beast. Allen is the epitome of beauty to watch and Pierce in some ways is the epitome of ugly to watch. They both get it done. They are both clutch. They both put in the work to win. Just as a career Pierce has had just a tad bit more success. Ray Ray had some nasty years though, putting up 3.5+ treys a game. He really is the true definition of shooting guard, and Pierce really is the true definition of small forward.

[PP34Deuce]

Beyond numbers, Paul Pierce is and has been the better player....

Paul Pierce was the true definition of a swingmen. Could play both SG-SF at a hight level. Even before garnett came, he was a better defender leader in steals and used to average block a game. Very good shooter from 3 and midrange.

[Clutch]

Pierce is a better overall player but you simply can't leave the greatest shooter of all time out of the Hall of Fame.

My vote goes to Ray Allen.

[L.Kizzle]

Paul Pierce by a hair. Both have been a beast. Allen is the epitome of beauty to watch and Pierce in some ways is the epitome of ugly to watch. They both get it done. They are both clutch. They both put in the work to win. Just as a career Pierce has had just a tad bit more success. Ray Ray had some nasty years though, putting up 3.5+ treys a game. He really is the true definition of shooting guard, and Pierce really is the true definition of small forward.
A tad bit more, how so? Before the Big 3, both went as far as the Conference Finals, Ray also had an All-NBA 2nd team under his belt and PP a third team.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Ray Allen. Maybe the best at what he does (pure shooter), off ball movement, cold blooded. 3pt shooting? Best ever.

[DeronMillsap]

Pierce by a small margin. Allen's Prime in Milwaukee and Seattle was just as good or slightly better than Pierce's pre-Big 3 years.

Both guys have four playoffs appearances prior to the formation of the Big 3 and have four appearances together but I think Pierce being a bit better from '08-present gives him the edge. For me anyway.

It's a lot closer than some people think.

[Snoop_Cat]

I think too many people picture Ray Allen as the Boston Celtic spot up shooter. Yes Pierce always had fairly weak teams and had that one deep run (to the ECF I believe it was) but Ray Allen was never on All-Star studded teams either. He was an incredible all around player during Milwaukee and Seattle as well and is arguably the greatest shooter of all time.

RAY ALLEN for me.

[FindingTim]

it's very close.

interesting question, considering that
Ray Allen's game is visually appealing (my eyes have orgasms when he drains a 3)
Pierce' style is slow and bland

the HOF would be a sad place without either of them, but a Hall without Ray Allen would be a slightly bigger travesty. Pierce was a better Celtic, but a prime Ray Allen was just as good, if not better, than a prime Paul Pierce.

If my childhood memories are correct, Ray Allen was a bonafide star and a terrific scorer; far more than a deadly shooter, he could light you up by driving to the rim or drain 3's from outside.

My vote goes to Ray Allen, but I can't think rationally. I am blinded into bias by that perfect jump shot. It's like sex and lobster and Bora Bora all at once-- but better.

[bingo123]

Ray Allen. The greatest 3pt shooter in history.

[Dave3]

Pierce probably had better peak years, but Hall of Fame is about effect on the game, and in my opinion, Pierce has brought nothing new to the game of basketball. He was a great player mind you, but he hasn't been incredibly memorable. Ray Allen on the other hand has become the epitome of pure shooting in the NBA. It's not just the 3 point record, because before that, Ray Allen was the standard for jump shooting. He's got great accuracy, almost unaffected by being contested, and can hit any shot from anywhere and his form will be the exact same. The NBA has never seen a shooter like him and likely will not for a long time. For that reason, he is more hall of fame worthy than Pierce.

PS. Has anyone tallied the current count?

[Kyle_korver]

alltime leading anything is going to the hall of fame.. ray allen is all time in 3s.. yes pierce has a finals mvp but so does billups.. he going in the hall too?? nope

[Harison]

Just to piss off Spud... Allen

+1 :oldlol:

In any case, both are HoF, no question about it.

[Heat007]

Ray Allen. The amount of times he just destroyed teams with his clutch and timing 3's is a thing of beauty.

there's a lot more to the game of basketball than shooting the ball from a far distance.

You can find guys who can shoot well from a long distance and pay them with very reasonable (cheap in some cases) contracts -- guys like Korver etc.

But guys like Paul Pierce are far more valuable for a team because they can do many things, and be called upon more for certain matchups and called upon for what the team needs (depending on the opponent).

IF you're starting a team you take Pierce over Allen 100 times out of 100.

[JGXEN]

Last count (Heat007):
19 votes for Paul Pierce
30 votes for Ray Allen

[Brunch@Five]

Ray Allen. Maybe not the better player, but certainly more special.

[CeltsGarlic]

Thats BS cause Im Ray Ray fan, but still R.Allen.

[ace23]

there's a lot more to the game of basketball than shooting the ball from a far distance.

You can find guys who can shoot well from a long distance and pay them with very reasonable contracts -- guys like Korver etc.

But guys like Paul Pierce are far more valuable for a team because they can do many things,
How many players have there been who can shoot 90% FT, 40% 3pt, attack the basket, and create shots for others?


And GTFO w/ that Korver comparison. Really?

[iggy>]

Did someone just compare ray Allen to Kyle korver? I swear some of u guys some of u guys don't even watch basketball.

[kabalcage]

All-time great shooters like Ray Allen belong in the HOF.

All-time leader in 3s
10 time All-Star
NBA Champion
29th in total career points.

Certified HOF, he already conducts himself like a HOFer. 100%, money in the bank.

[miles berg]

Ray Allen for sure.

The most underrated SG of this generation. Had he been in LA, instead of Kobe, those Shaq years would have produced more championships because Allens ego would have never gotten in The Diesel's way.

Absolutely fantastic player.

[LeFraud Shames]

LeBron James.

And it's not even close.

[DirtySanchez]

As much as I love Paul (as a player) I have to give it to Ray Ray. Just one of the best shooters of all time.

[Kellogs4toniee]

My vote goes to Ray Allen.

If both were to retire today, I think 10 years down the road Ray Allen will be remembered more from the general public than Paul Pierce. There were plenty of players better than Reggie Miller during the 90's and early 00's, but people still talk about him today because he had certain traits that stick with people, good or bad. I think Ray Allen is in the same boat and has more of those traits then Pierce does. With one player, you can say "best shooter of all time" and not be ridiculed. Which is unfortunate because Pierce is clearly a better all-around player. But it's his all-around being good at pretty much everything that doesn't give him the kick to be remembered as much as Allen.

All opinions above, sorry if I insulted any Allen or Pierce fans.

[sh0wtime]

I vote Ray Allen, extremly easily.

[DMAVS41]

Paul Pierce is a much better player. He was/is a true leader.

I wouldn't say MUCH better, but I'll take Pierce as well.

[Doranku]

Pierce. He was simply the better player peak to peak and has had a better overall career than Ray.

[Orlando Magic]

My vote goes to Ray Allen.

If both were to retire today, I think 10 years down the road Ray Allen will be remembered more from the general public than Paul Pierce. There were plenty of players better than Reggie Miller during the 90's and early 00's, but people still talk about him today because he had certain traits that stick with people, good or bad. I think Ray Allen is in the same boat and has more of those traits then Pierce does. With one player, you can say "best shooter of all time" and not be ridiculed. Which is unfortunate because Pierce is clearly a better all-around player. But it's his all-around being good at pretty much everything that doesn't give him the kick to be remembered as much as Allen.

All opinions above, sorry if I insulted any Allen or Pierce fans.

This. Ray Allen.

Ray Allen was not a better all around better player than Pierce nor was he a better player period. But Ray Allen is a more widespread name and has done more All Time type stuff than Pierce has. It's the Hall of Fame, people. Not the Hall of Who's the Best?

Like previous dude said... in 10 years, who will be remembered more? Ray Allen and his all time three point shooting or Pierce and his all around above average at everything, all time great at nothing self?

Ray ****ing Allen, son.

[BrilliantLegacy]

OP is clearly a retard. Ray Allen easily.. Pierce was nothing until KG and Allen came to Boston. We can all say that Ray had a case for the FMVP.

[JohnnySic]

Pierce, but they're both getting in, so it doesn't matter.

[Ne 1]

Tough pick, but if I was forced to choose just one then I would probably go with Pierce.

[Pursuer]

Ray Allen for me too. I think it's more significant to be the best every at one thing(shooting) than what Paul Pierce has achieved.

[Boston C's]

Well I guess we can end this thread it looks like ray takes it by a landslide in the votes... I am a bit surprised that a lot of ppl recognize ray like this because he is vastly underrated... in terms of peak for peak like most ppl are sayin pierce by a longshot I think its pretty close actually and call me bias because hes my fav player but I'll start a team around ray allen over pierce because hes just as good a player as pierce and his attitude and leadership puts him over the top for me... thats a different conversation though but I guess lock this thread with ray gettin the vote...would love durantthebest to see this lmao he'll be pissed

[Boston C's]

I'm reopening this just to piss off spud lmao

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

Jesus

[Boston C's]

shuttlesworth :D

[rwfletch22]

Mr. Allen

[Harrison_Barnes]

Ray Rayyy

[3zazer1]

Are you guys serious? I'm a big Paul Pierce fan but come on! We wouldn't even be talking about Pierce in this light if it wasn't for 2008. Ray Allen is the leader in 3 point field goals. One of the purest strokes in the game. Tied a finals record back in 2010 with 9 threes in game 2. Mad love to Paul Pierce, but give Allen some respect.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Are you guys serious? I'm a big Paul Pierce fan but come on! We wouldn't even be talking about Pierce in this light if it wasn't for 2008. Ray Allen is the leader in 3 point field goals. One of the purest strokes in the game. Tied a finals record back in 2010 with 9 threes in game 2. Mad love to Paul Pierce, but give Allen some respect.

Keep in mind that I already picked Ray Allen and am playing a little Devil's Advocate here, but your post makes it seem like Ray Allen deserves it over Pierce in a land-slide. That's simply not the case. I think Pierce's loyalty (whether direct or indirect) to the Celtics organization helps his case, just like Allen having one of the purest jumpers in the league helps his case as well.

And we are giving him respect, so far he's clearly winning in this thread.

[MELOgamaniac]

I think people automatically favor pierce because ray is viewed as a 1 trick pony (far from that) and that pierce has remained a celtic all his career and for some stupid reason people think that holds weight.

But i would give my vote to ray.disregarding stats (which dont vary that much) and even records like ray's 3 point record....when we fast forward 15 years from now , Ray allen is going to stand out and be more memorable that Paul.Paul will fall into that already crowded category of elite wingen of the 2000's like Ray allen, but ray has effected the game beyond his stats. He is the paragon of jump shooting and classyness and humility. Pierce is genrally the opposite. You think of pure jumper and the art of off ball play and cutting you think ray allen automatically..I dont know what category or skills you can say the same for pierce.

[Boston C's]

Keep in mind that I already picked Ray Allen and am playing a little Devil's Advocate here, but your post makes it seem like Ray Allen deserves it over Pierce in a land-slide. That's simply not the case. I think Pierce's loyalty (whether direct or indirect) to the Celtics organization helps his case, just like Allen having one of the purest jumpers in the league helps his case as well.

And we are giving him respect, so far he's clearly winning in this thread.

I like this post... and like I said in this thread earlier whoever says one deserves it over the other in a landslide is just nuts... again you can't go wrong with either one but it doesnt hurt that ray is the three point king :D

[klee]

Ray allen, One of the Purest Shooters in NBA history, hells a few 3point records, 9 time allstar (paul 8) both won a chip, career 20 point average, 45% fg 39.6% 3pt and 89.6 ft. If you question his leadership look back at the supersonics and Milwaukee days, they made deep playoff runs because of him. give it up for jesus :bowdown: and paul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysT8RA6JQks
Agreed. Allen

[swi7ch]

Easily... Ray.

He's only the all-time 3pt leader out of the million of players that played in the NBA. Pierce is the leader all-time in what category again?

[pete's montreux]

Easily... Ray.

He's only the all-time 3pt leader out of the million of players that played in the NBA. Pierce is the leader all-time in what category again?

Million? And I'm pretty sure you actually meant to say "Millions", when the real number is probably...maybe a few thousand at MOST.

[bizil]

This one is very close. Those that don't think so I gotta question your hoops knowledge. But I will lean slightly to PP. Both guys could score pretty much anyway you want it. With the exception of Ray and his post up ability. Pierce on the other hand has one of the greatest scoring skillset of all time at the SF. The only other guys u can argue against him are Bird, Melo, Aguirre, and Barry. Guys like English, Dantley, Nique and Bernard King dont have the range. Durant doesn't have the postup game yet. And Pierce and Ray are both underrated all around players. Ray has been known to run the PG in Milwaukee and Seattle at times. I always thought Pierce had point forward type capabilites even dating back to Kansas.

But both are gonna make the HOF. And Ray is one of the 10 GOAT SG's. And Pierce is a top 10 GOAT SF.

[bizil]

This one is very close. Those that don't think so I gotta question your hoops knowledge. But I will lean slightly to PP. Both guys could score pretty much anyway you want it. With the exception of Ray and his post up ability. Pierce on the other hand has one of the greatest scoring skillset of all time at the SF. The only other guys u can argue against him are Bird, Melo, Aguirre, and Barry. Guys like English, Dantley, Nique and Bernard King dont have the range. Durant doesn't have the postup game yet. And Pierce and Ray are both underrated all around players. Ray has been known to run the PG in Milwaukee and Seattle at times. I always thought Pierce had point forward type capabilites even dating back to Kansas.

But both are gonna make the HOF. And Ray is one of the 10 GOAT SG's. And Pierce is a top 10 GOAT SF.

[dunksby]

Why on earth would you not want the leading 3PTM of all time to get in HOF?

[LJJ]

Paul Pierce would not sniff the hall if it wasn't for "The Big Three". Ray Allen would get in regardless.

[Kevin_Gamble]

Paul Pierce would not sniff the hall if it wasn't for "The Big Three". Ray Allen would get in regardless.
I don't see how Ray Allen's pre-big 3 resume is more impressive than PP's. They both got as far as conference finals, except Ray Allen did it with a far more stacked team. As for the argument that Ray Allen is a 3 point leader or whatever, let's not pretend like 3 pointer is same as a home run in baseball. 3 pointers are not so absurdly more efficient than 2 pointers and harder that it is a HOF worthy milestone. Ray Allen didn't score at a 150% rate over Pierce with all his 3 point prowess.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Pierce, because he's still Boston's leader right now, and he has a Finals MVP.
Pierce has a slightly more complete game than Ray Ray.
But it's closer than you think.
I would prefer Ray but thats just me

[L.Kizzle]

I don't see how Ray Allen's pre-big 3 resume is more impressive than PP's. They both got as far as conference finals, except Ray Allen did it with a far more stacked team. As for the argument that Ray Allen is a 3 point leader or whatever, let's not pretend like 3 pointer is same as a home run in baseball. 3 pointers are not so absurdly more efficient than 2 pointers and harder that it is a HOF worthy milestone. Ray Allen didn't score at a 150% rate over Pierce with all his 3 point prowess.
Cause Ray without the big 3 would still be the all-time leader in 3-pointers made, and Paul Pierce would be Walter Davis 2.0.

[Kevin_Gamble]

Cause Ray without the big 3 would still be the all-time leader in 3-pointers made, and Paul Pierce would be Walter Davis 2.0.
Being the all-time 3 point leader is borderline meaningless.

[L.Kizzle]

Being the all-time 3 point leader is borderline meaningless.
Just like steals are boderline meaningless.

[Jasper]

pierce carried a franchise for years whether it was lean years or with the big 3.
Money on the line , ball is in his hands.

Allen even in Milwaukee and Seattle I considered him a 1a option at best.

Allen will make it to the HOF because of the 1 chip and the 3pt marksman.
If he didn't have the 3 pt record , and EAST conference finals would of done it , considering he has been there twice before.
Scoring average has dipped but his over all career gets him in.

[Kevin_Gamble]

Just like steals are boderline meaningless.
If you look at the best players in the past 20 years, you'll see that no one relies on the three. The three is the ultimate role player shot, and a superstar has no business focusing on threes.

Pierce has higher scoring avg. at only slightly lower efficiency. He also gets to the line at almost twice the rate of Allen. There is no question in my mind that Pierce is the more valuable player.

[Boston C's]

pierce carried a franchise for years whether it was lean years or with the big 3.
Money on the line , ball is in his hands.

Allen even in Milwaukee and Seattle I considered him a 1a option at best.

Allen will make it to the HOF because of the 1 chip and the 3pt marksman.
If he didn't have the 3 pt record , and EAST conference finals would of done it , considering he has been there twice before.
Scoring average has dipped but his over all career gets him in.

Thats laughable really... especially in seattle he was the unquestioned number 1 option and leader... 04-05 playoffs it was because of ray we even managed to get out the first round and go to 6 games with the spurs with rashard and radmonovic out

[winwin]

Ray Allen

[Duranthebest]

Let's face it, the only reason Ray won this poll is because of my reputation on ISH. On different forums and on ISH, I've seen this topic a million times, and Pierce wins 90% of the time.

I'm glad some people here have bought it up... Like it of not, being the all-time 3 point leader is borderline meaningless. Some of you treat it like it's the all-time scoring list or rebound list, it's not. In baseball, I wouldn't even compare it to the all-time doubles leader because the doubles list has so many hofers. The top 10 players on the 3-point list is a laughable bunch at best. Compare that list to the scoring leaders, blocks leaders, assists leaders, rebound leaders and steals leaders, then you can clearly see the 3 point list clearly has no prestige.

For all this talk, Paul Pierce is going to finish his career anywhere between 3-5 on the all-time 3 point list, but unlike Allen, Pierce is far from and much, much more than a 3-point shooter. In 2 years less in the league, Pierce already has more career rebounds and assists, and he is not far from Allen in career points. In less years, Pierce also has more all NBA teams made, only one less all-star appearance and a Finals MVP. Pierce also has higher career averages across the board. Being one of the greatest Celtics ever doesn't hurt either. Whether it's on the court or on paper, Pierce was/is a greater player than Ray Allen.

[kentatm]

b/c the HOF takes everything into account I might have to give it to Allen b/c I think he had the better college career.

they are both pretty close in my mind though.

I completely understand why people would take PP over Allen in this.

[fefe]

Many people say they take PP mainly because of his finals MVP.

They seem to forget that award was not very unanonimous either.
For example, in my view, it belonged to Jesus Shuttlesworth. He was better than Pierce in that Finals series.

[Duranthebest]

Many people say they take PP mainly because of his finals MVP.

They seem to forget that award was not very unanonimous either.
For example, in my view, it belonged to Jesus Shuttlesworth. He was better than Pierce in that Finals series.

See what I mean about ignorance? What in the blue hell makes you think the 2008 finals MVP voting wasn't unanimous, because you think otherwise?

Paul Pierce got every vote for finals MVP voting, moron. If Allen was better, than the people who voted(former players/ paid nba officials/whoever) who have voted for him or at least given him a damn vote. Fact is, only a moron can watch the 2008 finals and not think Paul Pierce was the MVP of that series. For peaks sake, he led the damn team in scoring and assists. Has there ever been a player on a championship team to lead their team in two of the three major stat cats in a finals series and not win the MVP?

[The Iron Fist]

Give me Allen.

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

Amen

[Human Error]

Pierce had a good career and won the championship not as a scrub but as a top 3 player on the team. Impressive. But so are many many other players.

Ray Allen on the other hand hit more 3 pointers than anyone in history. How can we not have that kind of player in basketball hall of fame?

Easily Ray Allen.

[Human Error]

i cannot take people who say pierce is a more deserving hof candidate than ray allen seriously.

[Kblaze8855]

For all this talk, Paul Pierce is going to finish his career anywhere between 3-5 on the all-time 3 point list, but unlike Allen, Pierce is far from and much, much more than a 3-point shooter.

At his peak scoring wise Ray was scoring 26 a game and ony making 3 3s a night. Where do you think the rest came from if he isnt much much more than a 3 point shooter? Only 6 of his 17ppg last year were off threes. Even back in 01 not even a third of his scoring was off threes. Ray has always been a scorer. Hes not a shooter. Ray is a scorer.


For peaks sake, he led the damn team in scoring and assists. Has there ever been a player on a championship team to lead their team in two of the three major stat cats in a finals series and not win the MVP?

Yes. Bird and Kareem come to mind first. But I doubt they are the only ones.

[magnax1]

Pierce was just better in his prime, and was better almost every year of his career. They were close no doubt, but I think Pierce is the pretty obvious choice.

[Ronin]

vote/discuss

IMO, Pierce easily

Pierce 1
Allen 0

One vote = Pierce

[JohnnySic]

Pierce is just better, period. The margin isn't huge, but its there. I've watched just about every Celtics game the past 4 years with the 2 playing together.

Pierce can score more ways (attacks the basket better, can post up, better "in-between" game), is a better rebounder, better defender, better passer, and better at creating for others.

Allen is a better pure shooter out to 3 point land, a better free throw shooter (although PP is great too) and works picks a lot better.

[HylianNightmare]

pierce

[Crown&Coke]

I think RayRay.

WIthout the 2008 ring Paul's teams only had success, what 3-4 years. Ray had success in Milwaukee and Seattle, and if not for Allen Iverson going bonkers he might have gotten into the finals at least once with a starting frontcourt that had no shot at cracking the DLeague let alone the NBA playoffs.

[L.Kizzle]

See what I mean about ignorance? What in the blue hell makes you think the 2008 finals MVP voting wasn't unanimous, because you think otherwise?

Paul Pierce got every vote for finals MVP voting, moron. If Allen was better, than the people who voted(former players/ paid nba officials/whoever) who have voted for him or at least given him a damn vote. Fact is, only a moron can watch the 2008 finals and not think Paul Pierce was the MVP of that series. For peaks sake, he led the damn team in scoring and assists. Has there ever been a player on a championship team to lead their team in two of the three major stat cats in a finals series and not win the MVP?
That was Pierce's award for being a Celtic his whole career.

[Bernie Nips]

See what I mean about ignorance? What in the blue hell makes you think the 2008 finals MVP voting wasn't unanimous, because you think otherwise?

Paul Pierce got every vote for finals MVP voting, moron. If Allen was better, than the people who voted(former players/ paid nba officials/whoever) who have voted for him or at least given him a damn vote. Fact is, only a moron can watch the 2008 finals and not think Paul Pierce was the MVP of that series. For peaks sake, he led the damn team in scoring and assists. Has there ever been a player on a championship team to lead their team in two of the three major stat cats in a finals series and not win the MVP?

Larry Bird.

[Boston C's]

Let's face it, the only reason Ray won this poll is because of my reputation on ISH. On different forums and on ISH, I've seen this topic a million times, and Pierce wins 90% of the time.

I'm glad some people here have bought it up... Like it of not, being the all-time 3 point leader is borderline meaningless. Some of you treat it like it's the all-time scoring list or rebound list, it's not. In baseball, I wouldn't even compare it to the all-time doubles leader because the doubles list has so many hofers. The top 10 players on the 3-point list is a laughable bunch at best. Compare that list to the scoring leaders, blocks leaders, assists leaders, rebound leaders and steals leaders, then you can clearly see the 3 point list clearly has no prestige.

For all this talk, Paul Pierce is going to finish his career anywhere between 3-5 on the all-time 3 point list, but unlike Allen, Pierce is far from and much, much more than a 3-point shooter. In 2 years less in the league, Pierce already has more career rebounds and assists, and he is not far from Allen in career points. In less years, Pierce also has more all NBA teams made, only one less all-star appearance and a Finals MVP. Pierce also has higher career averages across the board. Being one of the greatest Celtics ever doesn't hurt either. Whether it's on the court or on paper, Pierce was/is a greater player than Ray Allen.

I haven't seen any other forums saying this... dont hate because ppl think ray is more deserving... like i said it could go either way and those who think its not close are out of their minds... do the vote tally again spud I think ray got this by a landslide:D

[DixieNourmous]

Both are borderline HOF`ers. I suppose if Rodman can make it in,, what the hell, put Ray and Paul in. Make a section at the HOF of "marginally deserving players". Let visitors go in that area for free...:lol

[Hittin_Shots]

Both are borderline HOF`ers. I suppose if Rodman can make it in,, what the hell, put Ray and Paul in. Make a section at the HOF of "marginally deserving players". Let visitors go in that area for free...:lol

I don't see what argument your going to give that they're not deserving...

[Rose]

Man people saying that it's hard to get in the hall of fame are speaking nonsense, it's relatively easy to get in(at least compared to other sports) First off both are getting in the hall.

But my vote would go Ray. As others have said Pierce was the better all around player. More of a total package. BUT Ray is an all time great shooter. Probably second best to only Nash. He'll stick around more. Be remembered more most likely because of his shooting touch, even though when he was younger he was far more than a spot up shooter.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Has there ever been a player on a championship team to lead their team in two of the three major stat cats in a finals series and not win the MVP?

Kareem in 1980. Even after Magic had that amazing game 6, his averages for the series was 21.5, 11.2, and 8.7. In the 5 games he played, Kareem averaged 33.4, 13.6, and 3.2.

Cornbread Maxwell the next year averaged 17.7, 9.5, and 2.8 and won the Finals MVP. Bird averaged 15.3, 15.3, and 7.0

In 1978, Wes Unseld won Finals MVP averaging 9, 11.7, and 3.9. Elvin Hayes averaged 20.7, 11.9, and 1.4.

[Duranthebest]

Man people saying that it's hard to get in the hall of fame are speaking nonsense, it's relatively easy to get in(at least compared to other sports) First off both are getting in the hall.

But my vote would go Ray. As others have said Pierce was the better all around player. More of a total package. BUT Ray is an all time great shooter. Probably second best to only Nash. He'll stick around more. Be remembered more most likely because of his shooting touch, even though when he was younger he was far more than a spot up shooter.

These responses as to why Ray is better than Pierce or more deserving of the hof are nonsense. Everything points back to that meaningless 3pt record.

Fact-Paul Pierce has had a better career in the NBA than Ray Allen.

Fact- Paul Pierce is/was a better player than Ray Allen.

Can anybody argue otherwise?

[Eat Like A Bosh]

If both were to retire today, I think 10 years down the road Ray Allen will be remembered more from the general public than Paul Pierce. There were plenty of players better than Reggie Miller during the 90's and early 00's, but people still talk about him today because he had certain traits that stick with people, good or bad. I think Ray Allen is in the same boat and has more of those traits then Pierce does. With one player, you can say "best shooter of all time" and not be ridiculed. Which is unfortunate because Pierce is clearly a better all-around player. But it's his all-around being good at pretty much everything that doesn't give him the kick to be remembered as much as Allen.

Paul Pierce is a slightly better all around player than Ray. But Kellogs is right, Ray will be the one more remembered of, due to his historic 3 point shooting.

And I'm a little biased as well, and the vote goes to Ray Allen. He's the only Celtic who doesn't play dirty.

All opinions above, sorry if I insulted any Allen or Pierce fans.

[Kevin_Gamble]

Man people saying that it's hard to get in the hall of fame are speaking nonsense, it's relatively easy to get in(at least compared to other sports) First off both are getting in the hall.

But my vote would go Ray. As others have said Pierce was the better all around player. More of a total package. BUT Ray is an all time great shooter. Probably second best to only Nash. He'll stick around more. Be remembered more most likely because of his shooting touch, even though when he was younger he was far more than a spot up shooter.

No doubt Ray Allen is a great shooter, but I feel that much of his shooting prowess is inflated by his "classic" form and reputation. For all the talk about Ray Allen being one of the greatest shooters ever, he shoots a lower percentage from the 3 than guys like Dana Barros, Dell Curry, Glen Rice, Stojakovic, or Kapono. Hornacek had a career .500% shooting average.

[Duranthebest]

Again, right back to Rays side-show 3pt shooting. Poster just admitted Pierce is much better at almost everything basketball wise except shooting, but he'd hive his vote for Ray. Nonsense.

[LJJ]

No doubt Ray Allen is a great shooter, but I feel that much of his shooting prowess is inflated by his "classic" form and reputation. For all the talk about Ray Allen being one of the greatest shooters ever, he shoots a lower percentage from the 3 than guys like Dana Barros, Dell Curry, Glen Rice, Stojakovic, or Kapono. Hornacek had a career .500% shooting average.

He's also been a 1st option throughout his career.

Allen: 2612 threes on .399
Stojakovic: 1760 threes on .401
Barros: 1090 threes on .411
Curry: 1245 threes on .402
Rice: 1559 thees on .400
Kapono: 449 threes on .437

None of those guys would shoot even close to Allen's % if they took the shots he took. The only shooter on that list who comes even close to Ray Allen is Stojakovic. And only during his peak.

[nbacardDOTnet]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Paul%20Pierce/cbbcd9f4.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Paul%20Pierce/-100323.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Paul%20Pierce/pp.gif

[game3524]

Pierce no question about it.

[game3524]

Paul Pierce would not sniff the hall if it wasn't for "The Big Three". Ray Allen would get in regardless.

Pierce was going to get in regardless of 2008. His overall numbers would have been better without having KG and Ray, and he would have played his entire career with Boston,which helps.

[Kevin_Gamble]

He's also been a 1st option throughout his career.

Allen: 2612 threes on .399
Stojakovic: 1760 threes on .401
Barros: 1090 threes on .411
Curry: 1245 threes on .402
Rice: 1559 thees on .400
Kapono: 449 threes on .437

None of those guys would shoot even close to Allen's % if they took the shots he took. The only shooter on that list who comes even close to Ray Allen is Stojakovic. And only during his peak.
Look if you can make a 1000 3s at .411 you won't automagically turn into a .330 shooter for the next 1000 3s. There is no evidence that shooting more makes you worse. Fact is Allen isn't head and shoulders above other good shooters as far as shooting the long ball goes. He's better at scoring, sure, but Pierce is better than Allen at it.

[Duranthebest]

Pierce was going to get in regardless of 2008. His overall numbers would have been better without having KG and Ray, and he would have played his entire career with Boston,which helps.

Bro, you shouldn't have even responded to his stupidity.

[Duranthebest]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Paul%20Pierce/cbbcd9f4.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Paul%20Pierce/-100323.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Paul%20Pierce/pp.gif

Where did you get that pic? Wow! One of the best picture only posts I've ever seen? I love that damn picture.

[LJJ]

Look if you can make a 1000 3s at .411 you won't automagically turn into a .330 shooter for the next 1000 3s. There is no evidence that shooting more makes you worse. Fact is Allen isn't head and shoulders above other good shooters as far as shooting the long ball goes. He's better at scoring, sure, but Pierce is better than Allen at it.

The more you shoot the harder it gets, are you retarded?


So Linus Kleiza is as good a shooter as Kobe Bryant? They shot the same %s, Kobe just shot a couple more.

Retarded way of reasoning.

[Kevin_Gamble]

The more you shoot the harder it gets, are you retarded?


So Linus Kleiza is as good a shooter as Kobe Bryant? They shot the same %s, Kobe just shot a couple more.

Retarded way of reasoning.

Linus Kleiza probably is as good a shooter as Kobe. What is your point? We all know that Kobe is a better basketball player than Kleiza, just as Pierce is a better basketball player than Ray Allen.

[Boston C's]

you ppl are retarded again what is with the pierce is better by landslide and even anyone who says ray landslide is dumb... its close it can go either way I said my vote goes to ray because the 3 point record HELPS... dude they both accomplished the same things... will have like same points same accolades same all star appearances and yet ppl wanna say its a landslide for either player... get outta here with that gimme a break

[Hittin_Shots]

you ppl are retarded again what is with the pierce is better by landslide and even anyone who says ray landslide is dumb... its close it can go either way I said my vote goes to ray because the 3 point record HELPS... dude they both accomplished the same things... will have like same points same accolades same all star appearances and yet ppl wanna say its a landslide for either player... get outta here with that gimme a break

Durantthebest arguments have only ever included celtics Ray it seems like he never watched Ray before he changed his game to fit better with Pierce...

[ILLsmak]

Paul Pierce would not sniff the hall if it wasn't for "The Big Three". Ray Allen would get in regardless.

This might actually be true...

But of course the Big Three did happen, and that means he is in easily. Just like of like Chauncey prolly wouldn't be a HOFer without his ring, either.

Still, it's gotta be Pierce, but as said... it's close.

And why are people still stuck on the idea that playing for the same team all your career makes you a better player?

-Smak

[LJJ]

Linus Kleiza probably is as good a shooter as Kobe. What is your point? We all know that Kobe is a better basketball player than Kleiza, just as Pierce is a better basketball player than Ray Allen.

There are barely 5 guys in the NBA who can shoot as well as Kobe Bryant, and Kleiza isn't one of them. By a huge margin. Have you ever seen a basketball game? Kleiza as good a shooter in the NBA as Kobe fcking Bryant? Really?


Just as Dana Barros isn't remotely the shooter Ray Allen was in the NBA. That dude is not going to make 2500 threes in 1000 games. Would have never, ever happened. Ray Allen is a better three point shooter by a huge margin.

[wheatonbrando]

It's definitely pretty close, and a lot closer than I would've thought before looking at things. Both have 1 title, 1 2nd team all NBA, 1 top ten MVP finish, 1 three point shootout title, 1 NCAA 1st team, basically equal All Star appearances (10-9 for Ray).

However Ray has something important going for him that Pierce never has or never will - public perception. Pierce has never been a beloved player. Most people despise him right now on the current Celtics team, fans have gone hot and cold on him over the years, and he has a poor reputation with the whole wheelchair incident, lots of pouting early in his career, etc. Like it or not, but when you think about Paul Pierce, you think of him in that way.

Ray Allen has just the opposite going for him. He won the NBA sportsmanship award once and the Sporting News "good guy" award three times. He also started the Ray of Hope foundation and is at the heart of the NBA cares programming. EVERYONE likes Ray Allen. Even people who hate and despise the Celtics right now despise KG first, then Pierce or Rondo in some order, then probably Big Baby or Shaq, but people like Ray. He's always been seen and talked about as complete class, on and off the court. Like or not, this matters because humans are the people voting.

There's not much that Pierce can stake a claim too over Allen right now other than that one Finals MVP which was very contested at the time (could easily have been KG or Allen) and steals. He's behind Ray on all of the career counters like points, threes, etc.

Allen however has several things that Pierce never will. One, he's an Olympic gold medalist. Pierce's team choked. Two, he holds pretty much every significant three point shooting record in NBA history AND he's a top 5 free throw shooter in NBA history. Both of these make him "probably the greatest pure shooter of all time" in most people's eyes. The NBA is fundamentally about puting a ball into a basket so that matters. And three, Ray is a class act that people have loved throughout his career, on and off the court.

It would be sad if Paul Pierce got left out of the HOF, and he won't. But it would go against every semblance of voter history for them to leave out Ray Allen. It would never happen.

[Scholar]

Though Ray Allen has been a great player for the majority of his career, Paul Pierce has been a superstar player for his entire career. My vote goes for Pierce.

[DeronMillsap]

Not sure if I posted here already...

Anyway, my vote goes to Pierce by a very small margin. Both were equal in their Prime, although I might give a smaller edge to Allen because I watched him more and thought he was slightly better. Pierce may have had more recognition because of where he played but Allen in Milwaukee and Seattle was just as good or even better(slightly). Allen was NOT just a 3-point shooter during his prime!!!! Dude was a good overall baller, always cutting and slashing like he is now but had hops when he was younger.

However, with that being said it's the Big 3 era of the two that gives Pierce my one vote.

[DeronMillsap]

Page 4, post #58 :lol

Identical view just different writting. lol

Pierce by a small margin. Allen's Prime in Milwaukee and Seattle was just as good or slightly better than Pierce's pre-Big 3 years.

Both guys have four playoffs appearances prior to the formation of the Big 3 and have four appearances together but I think Pierce being a bit better from '08-present gives him the edge. For me anyway.

It's a lot closer than some people think.

[Boston C's]

It's definitely pretty close, and a lot closer than I would've thought before looking at things. Both have 1 title, 1 2nd team all NBA, 1 top ten MVP finish, 1 three point shootout title, 1 NCAA 1st team, basically equal All Star appearances (10-9 for Ray).

However Ray has something important going for him that Pierce never has or never will - public perception. Pierce has never been a beloved player. Most people despise him right now on the current Celtics team, fans have gone hot and cold on him over the years, and he has a poor reputation with the whole wheelchair incident, lots of pouting early in his career, etc. Like it or not, but when you think about Paul Pierce, you think of him in that way.

Ray Allen has just the opposite going for him. He won the NBA sportsmanship award once and the Sporting News "good guy" award three times. He also started the Ray of Hope foundation and is at the heart of the NBA cares programming. EVERYONE likes Ray Allen. Even people who hate and despise the Celtics right now despise KG first, then Pierce or Rondo in some order, then probably Big Baby or Shaq, but people like Ray. He's always been seen and talked about as complete class, on and off the court. Like or not, this matters because humans are the people voting.

There's not much that Pierce can stake a claim too over Allen right now other than that one Finals MVP which was very contested at the time (could easily have been KG or Allen) and steals. He's behind Ray on all of the career counters like points, threes, etc.

Allen however has several things that Pierce never will. One, he's an Olympic gold medalist. Pierce's team choked. Two, he holds pretty much every significant three point shooting record in NBA history AND he's a top 5 free throw shooter in NBA history. Both of these make him "probably the greatest pure shooter of all time" in most people's eyes. The NBA is fundamentally about puting a ball into a basket so that matters. And three, Ray is a class act that people have loved throughout his career, on and off the court.

It would be sad if Paul Pierce got left out of the HOF, and he won't. But it would go against every semblance of voter history for them to leave out Ray Allen. It would never happen.

This... couldnt have made a better argument myself and I forgot about the bolded too

[MaxFly]

Is this some sort of joke? Anyone saying anything other than Pierce should quit ISH for a few months and come back when the season starts. I almost wouldn't mind a lockout under those conditions. :facepalm

[code green]

As an NBA fan, i probably could make a case for either. As a Celtics fan, it's Pierce, no doubt.

[Boston C's]

Is this some sort of joke? Anyone saying anything other than Pierce should quit ISH for a few months and come back when the season starts. I almost wouldn't mind a lockout under those conditions. :facepalm

Obviously your a biased pierce fan just like durantthebest :roll:

[Killbot]

Is this some sort of joke? Anyone saying anything other than Pierce should quit ISH for a few months and come back when the season starts. I almost wouldn't mind a lockout under those conditions. :facepalm

Yeah because it's really obvious who should get into the HOF, if there's only one vote. :rolleyes:

Then you say they should quit ISH for a while and you didn't give a reason why you selected Pierce.

Uh huh. :rolleyes:

[Kevin_Gamble]

However Ray has something important going for him that Pierce never has or never will - public perception. Pierce has never been a beloved player. Most people despise him right now on the current Celtics team, fans have gone hot and cold on him over the years, and he has a poor reputation with the whole wheelchair incident, lots of pouting early in his career, etc. Like it or not, but when you think about Paul Pierce, you think of him in that way.

Ray Allen has just the opposite going for him. He won the NBA sportsmanship award once and the Sporting News "good guy" award three times. He also started the Ray of Hope foundation and is at the heart of the NBA cares programming. EVERYONE likes Ray Allen. Even people who hate and despise the Celtics right now despise KG first, then Pierce or Rondo in some order, then probably Big Baby or Shaq, but people like Ray. He's always been seen and talked about as complete class, on and off the court. Like or not, this matters because humans are the people voting.

Which doesn't matter to me, a Celtics fan, when I am making the choice for my 1 vote. Who cares what some clown who has never followed Pierce thinks about his personality based on that one wheelchair incident? Pierce has been a warrior through thick and thin and worse.



There's not much that Pierce can stake a claim too over Allen right now other than that one Finals MVP which was very contested at the time (could easily have been KG or Allen) and steals. He's behind Ray on all of the career counters like points, threes, etc.

This is where your attempt to look like you are making a reasoned argument just completely unravels. Pierce is behind Ray on all of the career counters? He has played fewer two seasons.

There is actually quite a lot that Pierce can stake a claim over Allen, and most of it has to do with playing basketball, not with winning some bogus awards or starring in a movie. Pierce scores at a higher rate, shoots more free throws, gets more rebounds, gets more assists.

[code green]

Call me when Ray-Ray gets stabbed 11 times a month before the season starts only to respond by putting up the second highest scoring average of his career.

:pimp: :pimp:

[Boston C's]

Which doesn't matter to me, a Celtics fan, when I am making the choice for my 1 vote. Who cares what some clown who has never followed Pierce thinks about his personality based on that one wheelchair incident? Pierce has been a warrior through thick and thin and worse.


This is where your attempt to look like you are making a reasoned argument just completely unravels. Pierce is behind Ray on all of the career counters? He has played fewer two seasons.

There is actually quite a lot that Pierce can stake a claim over Allen, and most of it has to do with playing basketball, not with winning some bogus awards or starring in a movie. Pierce scores at a higher rate, shoots more free throws, gets more rebounds, gets more assists.

Really like what? the Hall of fame looks at accolades more then anything else and with that being said both players have accomplished pretty much the exact same things... all nba teams, all star appearances, total points, etc. Pierce averages not that many more points and rebounds he has because hes a forward whereas allens rebounding is actually pretty impressive for a guard... assists are right there even in the big 3 era where pierce handled the ball more, if allen was still the main guy and never came to boston he would surely have more assists so idk what either one has done that implies that either player is that much better then the other... I'll agree with you that its ridiculous to say that pierce is behind in all career counters because what each player has done is extremely similar and again ill reiterate that you cant go wrong with either player as a pick but both will get in

[Killbot]

There is actually quite a lot that Pierce can stake a claim over Allen, and most of it has to do with playing basketball, not with winning some bogus awards or starring in a movie. Pierce scores at a higher rate, shoots more free throws, gets more rebounds, gets more assists.

If we compare primes, they're close.

Not exactly a response just to you, but everybody else. Here's where I consider Allen's prime: 1999-2007, while Pierce's prime 2000-2007. Technically Pierce is still at his prime now, but it isn't fair to include years where he played with Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, seeing that his stats will dip.

MIN/FG/FG%/3-pt/3-pt FG/FT/FT%/Tot.reb/Assists/Steals/Blocks/PPG
Allen Avged: 38.3/8.2/45.0%/2.8/40.2%/4.3/89.5%/4.3/4.2/1.4/0.2/23.4
Pierce Avged: 38/8.0/44.0%/1.8/35.7%/6.9/79.5%/6.6/4.1/1.6/0.7/24.8
It is not exactly as high rate than you think because Pierce beats Ray about 1.5 points and 2.6 rebounds. Since, Pierce has the height advantage and plays closer to the basket most of the time than Ray, Pierce SHOULD average more than Allen, which he does .

Anyone thinking one or the other easily needs to look more into their careers. They're both pretty similar in accomplishments and statistical categories.

Since that is the case, Ray's 3's should be basically the tiebreaker. Olympic medals probably isn't exactly the right thing to judge (different teammates) as well as FMVP (Ray was close to getting it).

Ray is number 1 at 3's made with one of the greatest shooting forms in the history of the game. That makes him deserve that hall of fame vote because Ray excelled in a category and was considered the best at that particular field.

PS: Ray continued his prime by one more year with those stats giving him more consistency, while Pierce still remains a question mark on what could have been.

[ImmortalD24]

Pierce.. but it's close.

[Boston C's]

[QUOTE=Killbot]If we compare primes, they're close.

Not exactly a response just to you, but everybody else. Here's where I consider Allen's prime: 1999-2007, while Pierce's prime 2000-2007. Technically Pierce is still at his prime now, but it isn't fair to include years where he played with Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, seeing that his stats will dip.

MIN/FG/FG%/3-pt/3-pt FG/FT/FT%/Tot.reb/Assists/Steals/Blocks/PPG
Allen Avged: 38.3/8.2/45.0%/2.8/40.2%/4.3/89.5%/4.3/4.2/1.4/0.2/23.4
Pierce Avged: 38/8.0/44.0%/1.8/35.7%/6.9/79.5%/6.6/4.1/1.6/0.7/24.8
It is not exactly as high rate than you think because Pierce beats Ray about 1.5 points and 2.6 rebounds. Since, Pierce has the height advantage and plays closer to the basket most of the time than Ray, Pierce SHOULD average more than Allen, which he does .

Anyone thinking one or the other easily needs to look more into their careers. They're both pretty similar in accomplishments and statistical categories.

Since that is the case, Ray's 3's should be basically the tiebreaker. Olympic medals probably isn't exactly the right thing to judge (different teammates) as well as FMVP (Ray was close to getting it).

Ray is number 1 at 3's made with one of the greatest shooting forms in the history of the game. That makes him deserve that hall of fame vote because Ray excelled in a category and was considered the best at that particular field.

PS: Ray continued his prime by one more year with those stats giving him more consistency, while Pierce still remains a question mark on what could have been.[/QUOTE

This was presented really well... although if pierce was given an extra yr without ray and k.g im sure he still woulda put up 23-25 ppg

[Nowitzness81]

Paul Pierce has been average as **** in the playoffs.

Did you know Ray Allen made 57 of 119 threes one year in the postseason?

Give me Ray Allen any day.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Paul Pierce has been average as **** in the playoffs.

Did you know Ray Allen made 57 of 119 threes one year in the postseason?

Give me Ray Allen any day.

2008 playoffs Ray was nowhere in rounds 1 & 2.

[step_back]

Ray.

He was God back in the 05/06 season. Best shooter on the planet.

[vegasdude]

I actually dislike Pierce but I will give him an edge on Allen on this one.

1 vote for Pierce here.

[bizil]

I think the thing that gets lost to fans who aren't students of the game is the all around game that these guys have as well. I'm not saying they are on the level of a Bron, Wade, or Kobe all around game wise. But both are better all aroudn than they are given credit for. And both are so close u can go either way on this.

The HOF is full of shit anyway. Reggie Miller not gettin in on the 1st ballot is INSANE! Nique not gettin in the on 1st ballot is a travesty! Worthy didn't get in on the first ballot either. You got guys like Bernard King not even in yet. So even though Ray and Paul should be HOF locks, they may have to wait longer than they have to. And for guys who are great three point shooters and great scorers all in one, I feel Bird, West (he was pullin from that deep without the line back n the day), and Ray are the best all around players in that group. We are talking outta a group of guys like Dirk, Peja, Hornacek, Dale Ellis, Glen Rice, Mark Price, Reggie, etc.

[Jordan23GOAT]

Tough. Ray Ray is one of my favorite players and the best or one of the best shooters of all time. But the Truth stuck with that team and then finally won it all with some help. I'm gonna take Ray Allen just because of the history and he has the same ring as Pierce.

[game3524]

Is this some sort of joke? Anyone saying anything other than Pierce should quit ISH for a few months and come back when the season starts. I almost wouldn't mind a lockout under those conditions. :facepalm

Agreed.

I don't even like Pierce, but his resume when it is all said and down is going to be more impressive then Ray.

1. He will have the numbers, all-star appearance, and the ring.
2. He will play his entire career with a historic franchise.
3. He is/was the captain of that 2008 championship team.

[Boston C's]

Agreed.

I don't even like Pierce, but his resume when it is all said and down is going to be more impressive then Ray.

1. He will have the numbers, all-star appearance, and the ring.
2. He will play his entire career with a historic franchise.
3. He is/was the captain of that 2008 championship team.

That doesnt mean squat if all the pierce homers are saying rays 3 point record doesnt mean anything then this definitely doesnt count for shit

[game3524]

That doesnt mean squat if all the pierce homers are saying rays 3 point record doesnt mean anything then this definitely doesnt count for shit

In an era where there is so much player movement it does mean a lot.

[Boston C's]

In an era where there is so much player movement it does mean a lot.

...no it doesnt lol and btw pierce and allen both have one ring allen has one more all star appearance and both have similiar numbers so your first point is moot as well... all I'm saying is that pierce stans sayin that allens 3 point record doesnt mean jack shit should not think to bring up the argument that pierce being on the celtics his whole career means something as well

[Boston C's]

anybody know the vote count here? Lets just tally it up and we can lock this thread

[bdreason]

Ray Allen.

[Killbot]

Agreed.

I don't even like Pierce, but his resume when it is all said and down is going to be more impressive then Ray.

1. He will have the numbers, all-star appearance, and the ring.
2. He will play his entire career with a historic franchise.
3. He is/was the captain of that 2008 championship team.

1. Did you see the prime average numbers between Ray and Pierce that I posted? Their averages were close, and Pierce doesn't have vastly better stats than Ray.

2. That should not make Pierce > Ray. Pierce was unhappy with Celtics' management. If Ainge hadn't pulled out both Ray and Garnett, Pierce would have left for greener pastures.

As a Supersonic, Ray couldn't avoid getting traded because the management wanted to get younger anyways and Clay Bennett wanted to screw the Sonics to get them out of Seattle. If you don't believe that, then Ray was injured in 2006-2007 leading him to be traded. That injury required two ankle surgeries.

3. He's probably the captain because he has stayed with the team for so long. THat doesn't mean that Pierce beats Ray by a mile.

In the Miami Heat, Udonis Haslem and Dwyane Wade are co-captains. Notice how Lebron James wasn't selected as co-captain, yet he's a better player than Haslem. Haslem was selected captain due to having a longer tenure with that team.

[Boston C's]

1. Did you see the prime average numbers between Ray and Pierce that I posted? Their averages were close, and Pierce doesn't have vastly better stats than Ray.

2. That should not make Pierce > Ray. Pierce was unhappy with Celtics' management. If Ainge hadn't pulled out both Ray and Garnett, Pierce would have left for greener pastures.

As a Supersonic, Ray couldn't avoid getting traded because the management wanted to get younger anyways and Clay Bennett wanted to screw the Sonics to get them out of Seattle. If you don't believe that, then Ray was injured in 2006-2007 leading him to be traded. That injury required two ankle surgeries.

3. He's probably the captain because he has stayed with the team for so long. THat doesn't mean that Pierce beats Ray by a mile.

In the Miami Heat, Udonis Haslem and Dwyane Wade are co-captains. Notice how Lebron James wasn't selected as co-captain, yet he's a better player than Haslem. Haslem was selected captain due to having a longer tenure with that team.

Yea all three of his points are pretty much moot

[game3524]

One thing that Pierce has that is going to separate him from Ray, is his legacy as a Celtic is going to be much greater. Being the captain and face of a legendary franchise is going to help him with the voters.

On top of that, he may be the Celtics all-time leading scorer when he is down.

Pierce and Ray have similar resume, but when they are done Pierce resume is just going to look prettier since he only played with one team, and Ray will most likely play for 4 teams when he is done.

[KrizMiz]

RAY RAY for sure

[Lakerlove420]

Paul Pierce has been average as **** in the playoffs.

Did you know Ray Allen made 57 of 119 threes one year in the postseason?

Give me Ray Allen any day.

for sure bro .. Ray Allen any day ..every day..
I got to give my vote to Ray Allen.

[Droid101]

Ray Allen, no contest.

[step_back]

One thing that Pierce has that is going to separate him from Ray, is his legacy as a Celtic is going to be much greater. Being the captain and face of a legendary franchise is going to help him with the voters.

On top of that, he may be the Celtics all-time leading scorer when he is down.

Pierce and Ray have similar resume, but when they are done Pierce resume is just going to look prettier since he only played with one team, and Ray will most likely play for 4 teams when he is done.

How is that relevant?

Were talking about the hall fo fame, it doesn't matter how many teams players have been on. Is Shaq less of a hall of famer because he played on 6 teams? No he isn't.

[game3524]

How is that relevant?

Were talking about the hall fo fame, it doesn't matter how many teams players have been on. Is Shaq less of a hall of famer because he played on 6 teams? No he isn't.

Whether you like it or not, it is going to play a factor if they come up for the hall at the same time. I personally don't care, I would vote for Pierce simply because he was the better player.

Some people do value longevity with one team, It is one reason some use in the Shaq vs Duncan debate.

[Derka]

Only having one vote just isn't fair because they both belong in there.

That being said...I think Hall of Fame...I think of guys who are the absolute best. I'm not going to fall into the trap of comparing the two because that's not how the question should be approached.

As a Celtics fan, I love P2 and everything he's given for our city and our franchise. As as fan of just the entirety of basketball, I watched Ray Allen years ago and said "That's as good as it gets for a shooter." Ray is, as it stands, one of the greatest shooters in the game's history. Its impossible to ignore that if I only have one vote.

[CJ Mustard]

Ray Allen.

Pierce was not as good as Ray in his prime. You could argue Ray should have won the FMVP in 2008. And if that would have happened this wouldn't even be a discussion right now.

[Boston C's]

Whether you like it or not, it is going to play a factor if they come up for the hall at the same time. I personally don't care, I would vote for Pierce simply because he was the better player.

Some people do value longevity with one team, It is one reason some use in the Shaq vs Duncan debate.

Whether you like it or not Ray being the 3 point king will play a factor as well... it goes both ways and I'm certain ray being the 3 point king will hold more value then pierce playing for one team throughout his whole career

[game3524]

Whether you like it or not Ray being the 3 point king will play a factor as well... it goes both ways and I'm certain ray being the 3 point king will hold more value then pierce playing for one team throughout his whole career

I never said it wouldn't, Ray's 3-point record is going to be a factor. But at the end of the day. Pierce is/was the better overall player.

[Boston C's]

I never said it wouldn't, Ray's 3-point record is going to be a factor. But at the end of the day. Pierce is/was the better overall player.

alright lol cuz some of these pierce homers say the 3 point record doesnt mean a thing... i respect your opinion and at least we know that both of them will go into the hall of fame when the time arrives

[kNIOKAS]

Ray Allen.

Pierce was not as good as Ray in his prime. You could argue Ray should have won the FMVP in 2008. And if that would have happened this wouldn't even be a discussion right now.
no it would and it's ridiculous you're thinking this way. 2008 FMVP could have gone either way between those three celtics, and it doesn't mean a thing.
pierce has always been better all around player than allen. how is that for you

[Boston C's]

no it would and it's ridiculous you're thinking this way. 2008 FMVP could have gone either way between those three celtics, and it doesn't mean a thing.
pierce has always been better all around player than allen. how is that for you

For the most part I wouldnt say every yr

[Boston C's]

End thread... 70-40 votes for ray :cheers:

[bluechox2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd014E69d9c&feature=related

:lol

[Boston C's]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd014E69d9c&feature=related

:lol

lmfaooo thats hilarious I remember seeing that I think it was during a nationally televised game:lol

[L.Kizzle]

lmfaooo thats hilarious I remember seeing that I think it was during a nationally televised game:lol
2010 NBA Finals

[Boston C's]

2010 NBA Finals

lmao was it really that recent and on that stage too... wierd how I thought it was during a regular season game that was televised

[Boston C's]

Spudjay come back and look at the vote count... it went exactly how you planned it would :lol :lol :lol :lol

[ThaSwagg3r]

Paul Pierce was the better player, but that doesn't mean he is more deserving in the hall of fame than Ray Allen does. An accomplishment like most 3 point field goals ever made is a legendary accomplishment, because we aren't just talking in a season, we are talking of all-time and in a career.

There aren't many things that Paul Pierce has accomplished that Ray Allen hasn't. Ray Allen should have been the 2008 Finals MVP in my mind.

There have been players in those Bill Russell Celtic teams that have made the HOF simply because of the amount of rings they have. It's a matter of accomplishment when getting into the HOF more than talent.

Here are two examples of players that made it to the HOF just because of rings/accomplishments.

Frank Ramsey - 13.4/5.5/1.8 (never made an All-Star team)
KC Jones - 7.4/3.5/4.3 (never made an All-Star team)

Those guys would not have gotten into the HOF if it weren't for playing with Bill Russell and getting the rings.


I don't think there is a really point of this argument though since they are both locks into the HOF, but If I only had one vote I would give it to Ray.

[Phenith]

Ray is a Legend, Pierce is an all time great player, but he is a guy that will get lost in time because he doesn't have anything that makes him stand out... he is a great all round player who has accomplished a lot, but there is a lot of those guys in history we don't even talk about.
The most memorable part of PP is that he is a superstar that stayed with one team in an era where even star players bounced around a lot and he was one of the toughest mofos out there.

Ray's days with the Bucks and Sonics are definitely being overlooked by many people who say they would vote for PP and it's not even close. Ray is a Legendary shooter who was the best player on some good teams.

+1 for Ray, but it's close, and shame on anyone who thinks PP is far ahead in a situation like this. But like ThaSwagg3r said, these guys are both in anyway, so it's a mute point.

[Duranthebest]

Facts:
Better overall player: Pierce
Better player in their primes: Pierce
Better player when on the same team: Pierce
Better scorer: Pierce
Better passer: Pierce
Better rebounder:Pierce
Better handle:Pierce
Better defender: Pierce
Better playmaker: Pierce
Better shooter:Ray
Better 3point shooter: Ray
Better free throw shooter: Ray
Better career stats:Pierce
Finals MVP:Pierce
More all NBA teams: Pierce
More all star teams: Ray by 1
Higher chance of getting into the hof(based on bb reference):Pierce
Higher MVP award shares: Pierce

[Duranthebest]

Ray Allen is not a legend nor is he an all-time.

The 3-point record is by no means legendary when you consider the top 10 3-point leaders of all-time and compare them to other top 10 leaders in other categories. For all this talk about 3 point shooting, Paul Pierce will be 3rd all time in 2 more seasons, and Pierce is by no means one of the greatest shooters ever.

Can somebody explain this to me? If Ray Allen deserved FMVP? Why didn't he receive one vote for the award? Why did the most crowd simultaneously chant "truth" before Stern could say who won the award?

[DixieNourmous]

Why the bump? :confusedshrug: old thread, tired as hell:sleeping:sleeping:sleeping:sleeping

[Boston C's]

]Ray Allen is not a legend nor is he an all-time.[/B]

The 3-point record is by no means legendary when you consider the top 10 3-point leaders of all-time and compare them to other top 10 leaders in other categories. For all this talk about 3 point shooting, Paul Pierce will be 3rd all time in 2 more seasons, and Pierce is by no means one of the greatest shooters ever.

Can somebody explain this to me? If Ray Allen deserved FMVP? Why didn't he receive one vote for the award? Why did the most crowd simultaneously chant "truth" before Stern could say who won the award?

You cant be taken seriously after you made that statement... your facts are stupid... ray has accomplished damn near everything pierce has... both led their teams to the conference finals both have 1 all nba 2nd team both similiar all star appearances and you said pierce has more career assists then ray allen? His average is slightly higher but ray has more career assists the only thing pierce has him in is rebounding... in their primes both players could score with the best of them you need to stop hatin seriously... just cuz most ppl here believe allen has a better career resume then pierce doesnt mean you need to hate on him... and for christs sake shut up with the finals mvp already pierce earned it yea but ill tell you one thing if the big 3 were in minnesota k.g woulda won it and if they were in seattle then ray woulda had it... not sayin pierce didnt earn it but him being in boston his whole career played a huge damn factor... rays not an all time great? Hes top 30 in career points and the way hes going will finish top 15 no problem which shows hes more then a damn shooter like you perceive him to be hes a 10x all star 3 point champ 3 point leader and holds numerous records what does pierce have thats more impressive then ray? records nope, all time best at anything nope, all star appearances nope, nba teams both made all nba second team once and both players finished top 10 in mvp voting once theres NOTHING in career accomplishments that pierce has done that ray hasnt besides the finals mvp... check the resume its pretty damn impressive and nearly EVERYONE has him on their top 10 shooting guard of all time list so seriously stop hating... their both great players future hall of famers and if you wanna believe pierce is more worthy fine but ppl have the right to believe ray allen is worthy because the resume speaks for itself

[D.J.]

It's closer than most people think, but Pierce.

[Boston C's]

It's closer than most people think, but Pierce.

A statement that makes sense for both parties... unlike durantthebest who thinks its a landslide... for like the 1000th time if someone says ray but real close or pierce but real close there shouldnt be any problems unless someone says ray by a landslide or pierce by a landslide... because their accomplishments are so similar

[Boston C's]

72-41 vote count... and duranthebest (spudjay) completely ignoring my last comment...wish you would at least respond to my logical statement

[Kevin_Gamble]

http://blogs4brownback.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/beatdeadhorse.gif

[Boston C's]

http://blogs4brownback.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/beatdeadhorse.gif

lmaooo nice.... I just want spud to admit that hes wrong and that its actually close... idc if he thinks pierce deserves it more because you can make a case for him but the fact that he thinks its no contest is just absolutely retarded

[Boston C's]

spud hasnt shown his face since his thread backfired on him miserably... anyone know what the hell happened to him

[albas89]

My vote goes to Paul Pierce.
More complete player, better overall.