80's Lakers vs. 90's Bulls

[G-Funk]

Lakers would put it on em'.

5 rings in the toughest era. 3 Finals Mvp players ,all 3 in the 50 greatest players, 2 of them are top 10! enought said.

[G.O.A.T]

Lakers would put it on em'.

5 rings in the toughest era. 3 Finals Mvp players ,all 3 in the 50 greatest players, 2 of them are top 10! enought said.

Was it the toughest era?

They sort of had a cake walk through the West didn't they?

[Swaggin916]

Hard to say. Pippen/Jordan got to guard a much slower Magic in the 91 Finals... Prime Magic would have been hard to handle, but they would still do a good job... better than anyone else. Grant or Rodman would be able to contain Worthy most likely. The matchup to watch would be Cooper guarding Jordan.

It would be a tough series... Probably home court would decide it.

[G.O.A.T]

the '85 or '87 Lakers win against MJ from 91-93

96-98 MJ's will beats any Laker team ever.

[andgar923]

I think the Lakers will eventually win.

Kareem, prime Worthy, Magic would be too much to handle regardless of which Bulls team we match them up against.

Ewing used to give the Bulls problems, and that was without a great PG and scoring PF... I can't imagine what the combination of Kareem, Worthy, and Magic would do.

Only if the Bulls vs Lakers matchups in the 80s were even, can the Bulls have a chance.

[Bigsmoke]

the '85 or '87 Lakers win against MJ from 91-93

96-98 MJ's will beats any Laker team ever.

i hope so.

I cant imagine seeing Luc Longley and Bill Wennington defending Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bob McAdoo in a 7 game series.

The Lakers had soo much talent including the best PG and arguably the best center to ever played.

[G-Funk]

Was it the toughest era?

They sort of had a cake walk through the West didn't they?


Well they only faced one of the greatest teams of All-time in Celtics. And you know Celtics are better than anything Those 90's Bulls ever faced.

But hey, Im probably just being a homer.

[jlauber]

Was it the toughest era?

They sort of had a cake walk through the West didn't they?

I have read that argument many times, which attempts to minimize the Laker run, but think about this...

Let's take a look at Boston's three title team's in that decade.

In 80-81, they beat a 45-37 Bulls team in their first playoff series. They did have to beat a tough Philly team, that went 62-20, but they barely edged them, 4-3. How close was that series? The 76ers led the series, 3-1, and Boston won the last three games by 2, 2, and ONE point. This was basically the same Philly team that the Lakers beat in six games in '80 (with Kareem missing game six BTW), and then again easily dispatched them in six games in '82. AND, who did the Celtics beat to win the title? A 40-42 Rockets team, that somehow managed to win two games against them.

In 83-84 the Celtics beat a 47-35 Knick team, 4-2, and then a 50-32 Bucks team, 4-1. Neither team was a powerhouse. Then, as I have already pointed out, it took the Lakers HANDING them TWO games, to beat LA in seven games to win the title.

How about their last title team, in 85-86? They routed a 30-52 Bulls team, 3-0. They easily slapped a 50-32 Hawk team. And they swept a 57-25 Milwaukee team. Then, they beat a 51-31 Rockets team to win the title.

IMHO, they only faced a truly great team, TWICE in all of those series wins...the '81 76ers, and the '84 Lakers. And they were hardly dominant in either of those wins.

[Kurosawa0]

96-98 MJ's will beats any Laker team ever.

Yeah, with the ability to throw Rodman or Pippen at Magic, can't see the Lakers winning.

[G.O.A.T]

Well they only faced one of the greatest teams of All-time in Celtics. And you know Celtics are better than anything Those 90's Bulls ever faced.

But hey, Im probably justt being a homer.

Well The closest thing for the Bulls would have been The 1991 Bad Boy Pistons. They had won back-to-back titles and were the ones who dethroned Boston in te East and Los Angeles in the NBA Finals permanently.

I wonder though if the 1960's weren't more competitive. With just 8-9 teams for most of the decade and such duos as West/Baylor, Barry/Thurmond, Wilt/Arizin, Oscar/Lucas, Reed/Frazier those are five sets of guys named to the 50 Greatest and none of them ever won a title in the decade. That tell's you something about the competition.

I agree that there were never two more equally matched teams at the top of the league than the Celtics and Lakers in that decade and with the Pistons, Sixers and Rockets all having good teams in the decade it holds up well, but there were also a LOT more bad teams in those days.

[TheLogo]

Lakers would beat the Bulls.

[G.O.A.T]

IMHO, they only faced a truly great team, TWICE in all of those series wins...the '81 76ers, and the '84 Lakers. And they were hardly dominant in either of those wins.

I sort of think both teams had it pretty easy for the decade with a few exceptions '80-'83 Sixers, '86 Rockets...

The Lakers getting upset in the opening round by the '81 Rockets and the Celtics being swept by the 1983 Bucks is something that never happened to the 1990's Bulls, 1960's Celtics or 1950's Lakers.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It depends on what Laker team. The '87 and '88 versions featured an improved Magic Johnson, but Kareem was nowhere near his prime. The 1980 team would have given them some problems due to Kareem's incredible dominance, but Jordan and Pippen proved they could guard Magic who had expanded his range and added a post game since the mid 80's, though Magic was at his peak in '87, however the 1991 version was tougher to guard than the early 80's version due to the fact that Magic relied on transition opportunities for a lot of his scoring. The 1991 or 1992 Bulls vs 1987 Lakers would have been very interesting.

90's Bulls vs 80's Celtics would have been interesting because of Pippen vs Bird. It would've been interesting to see how well Scottie guarded prime Larry Bird. I don't think Jordan could guard Bird so Boston may have posed a tougher matchup because both Jordan and Pippen could guard Magic, but only Pippen on that Chicago team would have stood a chance, IMO.

[Sarcastic]

The Lakers probably were better as a team, but I wouldn't put anything past prime Jordan.

[necya]

why it's so important to say this team would have beaten the other team??
we will never know. you can analized every match up, it's useless.
but we know that bulls 90's, celtics 80's and lakers 80's were the top.
and a ****ing good mention for the pistons end of 80's.

[G-Funk]

Yeah, with the ability to throw Rodman or Pippen at Magic, can't see the Lakers winning.


Rodman on Magic??? Magic will got to work on him, Bulls would prefer Rodman helping on Kareem that would help just a little, and you probably want Pippen or MJ on Worthy. But I would love to see Michael Cooper on Pippen!

[Kurosawa0]

Rodman on Magic??? Magic will got to work on him, Bulls would prefer Rodman helping on Kareem that would help just a little, and you probably want Pippen or MJ on Worthy. But I would love to see Michael Cooper on Pippen!

Rodman could guard just about anyone. They could easily have thrown him on Magic. What exactly would Magic do that Rodman couldn't handle?

[MasterDurant24]

the '85 or '87 Lakers win against MJ from 91-93

96-98 MJ's will beats any Laker team ever.
I believe the 91-93 Bulls will beat the 96-98 Bulls. But the Bad Boys and 83 Sixers beat both.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I'm my opinion any Laker Championship team from 1980 to 1987 would have beaten the 90's Bulls. Jordan and Pippen got a lot of credit for guarding Magic in the 1991 Finals but the reality is they both racked up a lot of fouls when they were matched up on him. Magic still almost averaged a triple double in that series(19 points/8 rebounds/12 assists). A new slow-tempo coach, inconsistant play from Byron Scott and Sam Perkins, plus an injured James Worthy derailed them that year. A healthy James Worthy is tough to contain. He had a bad wheel in 1991 and he didn't even play in the last two games. There's nobody to even slow down Abdul-Jabbar on offense. Also, Kareem would guard our basket a lot better than Divac. Michael Cooper adds a tough defensive player and three point shooter that wasn't there in 1991. Then there are guys like Jamaal Wilkes and Bob McAdoo on some of those early 80's teams teams.

The only negative is that Byron Scott famously gives you absolutely nothing when he is matched up with Jordan so Chicago has the edge there. That problem would be minimized when you have Coop coming off the bench. And as much as I love Rodman I don't think it would have made that much a difference. LA was big and deep. They could score, defend, and they'd run you out of the building.

LA in 5 or 6 games

[Soundwave]

Personally I think the '92 Bulls were better than the '96 Bulls (younger legs on MJ too, and Horace Grant is underrated).

It's sort of not a fair comparison though because the Bulls were in the post-expansion era, where teams weren't as stacked as they were in the 80s.

If the Lakers played in the 90s, they wouldn't have had that much talent.

Still I think it would be a close series, 6 or 7 games either way.

My feeling is this though ... if the Pistons could hang with and/or beat the Lakers ... the Bulls would have more than a fair chance, because I think the Bulls eventually learned from the Pistons and became a superior team to that.

It would probably come down to defense versus offense.

[Desperado]

Rodman could guard just about anyone. They could easily have thrown him on Magic. What exactly would Magic do that Rodman couldn't handle?

Worthy lit up Rodman for 42 points in game 7 of the '88 Finals. Rodman the player who shut down Jordan/Pippen's Bulls in the playoffs.

In fact, Rodman himself said his Pistons Championship teams were better then any of the Bulls championship teams he played on.

As far as the 80's Lakers wouldn't be able to beat any of the Bulls teams from 96-98.


Key Factors.

- Magic would dominate vs Jordan or Harper, Pippen would give him the most problems but even with a injured squad in 1991 he went for 22/10/6, 16/20/11 against Pippen. With a Worthy and Kareem NOBODY would would stop Magic.

- Worthy, Jordan wouldn't be able to handle Worthy. Jordan's only weakness was being posted up. Magic Johnson exploited this in games 1 and 2 of the 1991 Finals. After putting 3 fouls on Jordan in the first half of game 2, Phil Jackson opted to move Pippen over to guard Magic and put Jordan on James Worthy. Fortunately for Jordan and Jackson, Worthy was playing on a SPRAINED ANKLE which eliminated his dominance

- Kareem. Even in his 40's, Kareem was a top 3 center in the league! With the Bulls having no offensive threat at the 5 position Kareem could rest and just give help out defense. Longley was a pesty center but Kareem would be just too much for him. NO WAY IN HELL that Longley would give him more trouble then the Front line of the 80's era Celtics that Kareem went against. :lol

- 96-98 Jordan was no where near the same defensive player as he was from 87'-93 Jordan. Damon Stoudamire had his way with Jordan in 1996 (Stoudamire's rookie season). While Stoudamire was very quick, Phil Jackson's answer to him spoke volumes about Jordan: Phil put Scottie Pippen on Stoudamire. Jordan was so slow that a 6'7" 225 lb forward was Phil's answer to a guard Damon. Phil began opting to put Ron Harper on the other team's better offensive guard. Old Jordan simply could not guard the best guards any more (remember when he got caught in the switch with Iverson the next year and how bad Iverson made him look?) Offensively 96' Jordan relied on post up moves and a mid range pull up jumper. Sound familiar? Michael Cooper had wars with Bird who wasn't as gifted athletically but had one of the deadliest jumpers and post up game ever. Cooper had the perfect build to give Jordan problems. Would Jordan score a lot? yes, would that mean the Bulls would win? NO (remember the 63 point game vs Boston?...the Bulls LOST!)

- Scottie Pippen. Maybe the best perimeter defender ever. Pippen would be the Bulls only hope. He would give Magic the most trouble but as I showed before, Magic still averaged nearly a triple double without Kareem and a injured Worthy. On defense (If you never seen Pippen play you missed something special) he could almost single-handedly put breaks on the L.A. showtime race car but even with the pit bull defense of Pippen and the offense prowess of Jordan the 87' Lakers had too much firepower.

[Soundwave]

'92 Bulls and '87 Lakers would be a better match up.

By '96, MJ was older than Magic was in '91.

Damon Stoudemire circa '96 is actually pretty f-cking fast though, we're talking probably faster than even Iverson side to side. He was like a little water bug out there.

[juju151111]

Worthy lit up Rodman for 42 points in game 7 of the '88 Finals. Rodman the player who shut down Jordan/Pippen's Bulls in the playoffs.

In fact, Rodman himself said his Pistons Championship teams were better then any of the Bulls championship teams he played on.

As far as the 80's Lakers wouldn't be able to beat any of the Bulls teams from 96-98.


Key Factors.

- Magic would dominate vs Jordan or Harper, Pippen would give him the most problems but even with a injured squad in 1991 he went for 22/10/6, 16/20/11 against Pippen. With a Worthy and Kareem NOBODY would would stop Magic.



- Worthy, Jordan wouldn't be able to handle Worthy. Jordan's only weakness was being posted up. Magic Johnson exploited this in games 1 and 2 of the 1991 Finals. After putting 3 fouls on Jordan in the first half of game 2, Phil Jackson opted to move Pippen over to guard Magic and put Jordan on James Worthy. Fortunately for Jordan and Jackson, Worthy was playing on a SPRAINED ANKLE which eliminated his dominance

- Kareem. Even in his 40's, Kareem was a top 3 center in the league! With the Bulls having no offensive threat at the 5 position Kareem could rest and just give help out defense. Longley was a pesty center but Kareem would be just too much for him. NO WAY IN HELL that Longley would give him more trouble then the Front line of the 80's era Celtics that Kareem went against. :lol

- 96-98 Jordan was no where near the same defensive player as he was from 87'-93 Jordan. Damon Stoudamire had his way with Jordan in 1996 (Stoudamire's rookie season). While Stoudamire was very quick, Phil Jackson's answer to him spoke volumes about Jordan: Phil put Scottie Pippen on Stoudamire. Jordan was so slow that a 6'7" 225 lb forward was Phil's answer to a guard Damon. Phil began opting to put Ron Harper on the other team's better offensive guard. Old Jordan simply could not guard the best guards any more (remember when he got caught in the switch with Iverson the next year and how bad Iverson made him look?) Offensively 96' Jordan relied on post up moves and a mid range pull up jumper. Sound familiar? Michael Cooper had wars with Bird who wasn't as gifted athletically but had one of the deadliest jumpers and post up game ever. Cooper had the perfect build to give Jordan problems. Would Jordan score a lot? yes, would that mean the Bulls would win? NO (remember the 63 point game vs Boston?...the Bulls LOST!)

- Scottie Pippen. Maybe the best perimeter defender ever. Pippen would be the Bulls only hope. He would give Magic the most trouble but as I showed before, Magic still averaged nearly a triple double without Kareem and a injured Worthy. On defense (If you never seen Pippen play you missed something special) he could almost single-handedly put breaks on the L.A. showtime race car but even with the pit bull defense of Pippen and the offense prowess of Jordan the 87' Lakers had too much firepower.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0lx-Is3dnE

LMAO at Cooper shutting down MJ and your comparing 86 bulls to the 96-98 bulls:lol If Mj scored 63 points his team will still be helping him out. he won't lose.

That was Rodman 2nd year and didn't have a defensive selection yet. Rodman got better.

MJ wouldn't be able to stop Worthy.:lol :lol :lol :roll: :facepalm

[Soundwave]

Kareem by the 80s was still a very good center, but probably not as good as a prime Ewing (90s) or 3rd/4th year Shaq (Orlando). The Bulls managed both well enough.

I think the Bulls had more headaches with guys like Kemp who liked to turn and face the basket and explode to the rim quickly.

Guys who liked to post up in the traditional way and pound the ball to the inside ... it gave the Bulls swarming defense a lot of opportunities to collapse down low.

[jlauber]

Worthy lit up Rodman for 42 points in game 7 of the '88 Finals. Rodman the player who shut down Jordan/Pippen's Bulls in the playoffs.

In fact, Rodman himself said his Pistons Championship teams were better then any of the Bulls championship teams he played on.

As far as the 80's Lakers wouldn't be able to beat any of the Bulls teams from 96-98.


Key Factors.

- Magic would dominate vs Jordan or Harper, Pippen would give him the most problems but even with a injured squad in 1991 he went for 22/10/6, 16/20/11 against Pippen. With a Worthy and Kareem NOBODY would would stop Magic.

- Worthy, Jordan wouldn't be able to handle Worthy. Jordan's only weakness was being posted up. Magic Johnson exploited this in games 1 and 2 of the 1991 Finals. After putting 3 fouls on Jordan in the first half of game 2, Phil Jackson opted to move Pippen over to guard Magic and put Jordan on James Worthy. Fortunately for Jordan and Jackson, Worthy was playing on a SPRAINED ANKLE which eliminated his dominance

- Kareem. Even in his 40's, Kareem was a top 3 center in the league! With the Bulls having no offensive threat at the 5 position Kareem could rest and just give help out defense. Longley was a pesty center but Kareem would be just too much for him. NO WAY IN HELL that Longley would give him more trouble then the Front line of the 80's era Celtics that Kareem went against. :lol

- 96-98 Jordan was no where near the same defensive player as he was from 87'-93 Jordan. Damon Stoudamire had his way with Jordan in 1996 (Stoudamire's rookie season). While Stoudamire was very quick, Phil Jackson's answer to him spoke volumes about Jordan: Phil put Scottie Pippen on Stoudamire. Jordan was so slow that a 6'7" 225 lb forward was Phil's answer to a guard Damon. Phil began opting to put Ron Harper on the other team's better offensive guard. Old Jordan simply could not guard the best guards any more (remember when he got caught in the switch with Iverson the next year and how bad Iverson made him look?) Offensively 96' Jordan relied on post up moves and a mid range pull up jumper. Sound familiar? Michael Cooper had wars with Bird who wasn't as gifted athletically but had one of the deadliest jumpers and post up game ever. Cooper had the perfect build to give Jordan problems. Would Jordan score a lot? yes, would that mean the Bulls would win? NO (remember the 63 point game vs Boston?...the Bulls LOST!)

- Scottie Pippen. Maybe the best perimeter defender ever. Pippen would be the Bulls only hope. He would give Magic the most trouble but as I showed before, Magic still averaged nearly a triple double without Kareem and a injured Worthy. On defense (If you never seen Pippen play you missed something special) he could almost single-handedly put breaks on the L.A. showtime race car but even with the pit bull defense of Pippen and the offense prowess of Jordan the 87' Lakers had too much firepower.

I have to agree with much of this. As Desperado also mentioned, even Rodman, himself, said the late 80's Pistons were better than his Bulls' teams. And only a couple of posters mentioned Cooper. My god, Cooper used to give Bird fits. I think he would present problems for MJ, as well. And hardly anyone has mentioned Byron Scott, who was a great shooter. Also, the Lakers had guys like AC Green and Michael Thompson later in the decade, so those Laker teams, along with an efficient Kareem would be a tough threesome for Chicago to matchup with. The mid-80's Laker teams would, of course, have a Kareem who would probably easily score 30 ppg on the Bulls centers (jeez, he was torching Parish in the mid-80's.)

And don't forget the SPEED the mid-80's Lakers either. Their '85 team averaged nearly 130 ppg in the playoffs, and outscored their opponents by 11 ppg (which is really amazing, considering Boston beat them by 34 points in one game.) Maybe the younger Bulls, from 91-93 could stay with those Laker teams, but I doubt the 96-98 group could.

In any case, those great Bulls' teams would have their hands full with either the '80 Lakers (A prime Kareem might hang as many as 40 on them...and a young explosive Magic could go off for 30), or the '85 Lakers, with a balanced offense and blinding speed, or the '87 Lakers with Magic and Worthy in their primes, and a host of talented supporting players.

[Soundwave]

Divac was pretty great in the '91 finals ... I think people forget that. After the "big three" (Jordan, Magic, Pippen) he was probably the the best player in that series.

Divac in the early 90s was averaging about the same production as late 80s Kareem, maybe even slightly superior rebounding and shot blocking.

As for Rodman saying the Pistons are better, that's open to some debate. I think Dennis is a loyal guy and he came up with the Pistons and they built that franchise from the ground up.

On Chicago, even though I think he loved playing there too ... he was more of a gun for hire, the last piece they slotted in, and they won right away. The Pistons probably felt more like a family to him because they had to go through more ups and downs together and that's where he made a name for himself.

I do not think the Pistons would be able to handle the Bulls once Pippen's game matured. I mean the '91 Bulls-Pistons series wasn't *even close* and the Pistons were still defending champs at that point. Once they couldn't just gang up on MJ, things changed in a hurry.

[juju151111]

I have to agree with much of this. As Desperado also mentioned, even Rodman, himself, said the late 80's Pistons were better than his Bulls' teams. And only a couple of posters mentioned Cooper. My god, Cooper used to give Bird fits. I think he would present problems for MJ, as well. And hardly anyone has mentioned Byron Scott, who was a great shooter. Also, the Lakers had guys like AC Green and Michael Thompson later in the decade, so those Laker teams, along with an efficient Kareem would be a tough threesome for Chicago to matchup with. The mid-80's Laker teams would, of course, have a Kareem who would probably easily score 30 ppg on the Bulls centers (jeez, he was torching Parish in the mid-80's.)

And don't forget the SPEED the mid-80's Lakers either. Their '85 team averaged nearly 130 ppg in the playoffs, and outscored their opponents by 11 ppg (which is really amazing, considering Boston beat them by 34 points in one game.) Maybe the younger Bulls, from 91-93 could stay with those Laker teams, but I doubt the 96-98 group could.

In any case, those great Bulls' teams would have their hands full with either the '80 Lakers (A prime Kareem might hang as many as 40 on them...and a young explosive Magic could go off for 30), or the '85 Lakers, with a balanced offense and blinding speed, or the '87 Lakers with Magic and Worthy in their primes, and a host of talented supporting players.
Like the Poster said above, Th bulls hadled Shaq,Ewing, and Kemp decent enough. 40 year old kareem is about that level. Bulls defense will step up and it all comes down to who dictates the pace.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Pippen/Jordan got to guard a much slower Magic in the 91 Finals.

Magic was only 31 and still playing some of the best basketball of his career in 1991. The only thing that slowed him down was new coach Mike Dunleavy's slow-paced halfcourt offense that Magic famously didn't like. Even still Magic's stats didn't suffer in 91, the Lakers just didn't fast break as much.

[jlauber]

Divac was pretty great in the '91 finals ... I think people forget that. After the "big three" (Jordan, Magic, Pippen) he was probably the the best player in that series.

Divac in the early 90s was averaging the same amount of points and more rebounds and blocks per game than Kareem was by '87.

Kareem was done after '87. Not a knock on him...my god, he was among the best players in the league for 17-18 years...but watching him play in '88 and '89 was pathetic.

[Soundwave]

Magic was only 31 and still playing some of the best basketball of his career in 1991. The only thing that slowed him down was new coach Mike Dunleavy's slow-paced halfcourt offense that Magic famously didn't like. Even still Magic's stats didn't suffer in 91, the Lakers just didn't fast break as much.

Magic probably could've played and been very effective for another 6 or 7 years.

He's like Steve Nash, except his game didn't even require that much speed. Almost all basketball I.Q. (though his size helped him too).

MJ's game was more predicated on athleticism, though he was obviously able to adjust it during the second threepeat era.

[jlauber]

BTW, here are MY Top-15 teams...

1. 71-72 Lakers
2. 66-67 76ers
3. 95-96 Bulls
4. 70-71 Bucks
5. 85-86 Celtics
6. 86-87 Lakers
7. 82-83 76ers
8. 00-01 Lakers (particularly of you factor in post-season)
9. 64-65 Celtics
10. 69-70 Knicks

11. 91-92 Bulls
12. 84-85 Lakers
13. 96-97 Bulls
14. 07-08 Celtics
15. 02-03 Spurs

[Soundwave]

I still think the '92 and maybe even the '97 Bulls are better than the '96 edition, but the '96 version will always get the most props.

[97 bulls]

I'm my opinion any Laker Championship team from 1980 to 1987 would have beaten the 90's Bulls. Jordan and Pippen got a lot of credit for guarding Magic in the 1991 Finals but the reality is they both racked up a lot of fouls when they were matched up on him. Magic still almost averaged a triple double in that series(19 points/8 rebounds/12 assists). A new slow-tempo coach, inconsistant play from Byron Scott and Sam Perkins, plus an injured James Worthy derailed them that year. A healthy James Worthy is tough to contain. He had a bad wheel in 1991 and he didn't even play in the last two games. There's nobody to even slow down Abdul-Jabbar on of:lol fense. Also, Kareem would guard our basket a lot better than Divac. Michael Cooper adds a tough defensive player and three point shooter that wasn't there in 1991. Then there are guys like Jamaal Wilkes and Bob McAdoo on some of those early 80's teams teams.

The only negative is that Byron Scott famously gives you absolutely nothing when he is matched up with Jordan so Chicago has the edge there. That problem would be minimized when you have Coop coming off the bench. And as much as I love Rodman I don't think it would have made that much a difference. LA was big and deep. They could score, defend, and they'd run you out of the building.

LA in 5 or 6 games
Wow, therese so many untruths in this post. Worthy didn't play in the last game. And in all the others, he showed no signs of being injured. In fact, he played well over 40 minutes in 3 of the four games he played. Dunleavy didn't slow down the laker offense. They still ran. Why would he change a system that brought them five championships? You also bring up every single championship team the lakers had as if they were rolled into one. In the early 80s, kareem was dominant but not worthy. By the back to back teams, kareem was clearly a shadow of his former self. Scott didn't play with mcadoo and wilks. And jordan was only in foul trouble in one game. A game that pippen filled in admirably.


The bulls were one last second shot away from a sweep. And 91 was by no means the bulls best team. 97 was the best. And I don't see an aging jabaar and cooper swing the game in the laker direction.


97 bulls over 87 lakers in 6

[Go Getter]

Lol, I'm not even going to comment as my opinion is just too biased on the subject, lol

[Go Getter]

BTW, here are MY Top-15 teams...

1. 71-72 Lakers
2. 66-67 76ers
3. 95-96 Bulls
4. 70-71 Bucks
5. 85-86 Celtics
6. 86-87 Lakers
7. 82-83 76ers
8. 00-01 Lakers (particularly of you factor in post-season)
9. 64-65 Celtics
10. 69-70 Knicks

11. 91-92 Bulls
12. 84-85 Lakers
13. 96-97 Bulls
14. 07-08 Celtics
15. 02-03 Spurs


Not to sound crass but how do you rate teams of the 60's and 70's....how do you watch enough games to make a solid decision?

[97 bulls]

Personally I think the '92 Bulls were better than the '96 Bulls (younger legs on MJ too, and Horace Grant is underrated).

It's sort of not a fair comparison though because the Bulls were in the post-expansion era, where teams weren't as stacked as they were in the 80s.

If the Lakers played in the 90s, they wouldn't have had that much talent.

Still I think it would be a close series, 6 or 7 games either way.

My feeling is this though ... if the Pistons could hang with and/or beat the Lakers ... the Bulls would have more than a fair chance, because I think the Bulls eventually learned from the Pistons and became a superior team to that.

It would probably come down to defense versus offense.
I fail to see how the 97 bulls weren't as stacked as the lakers.

Jordan is better than magic
Pippen is better than worthy
Rodman is the defensive equal to aging kareems offense
Kukocs versitility is the equal to coopers perimeter defense
Harper is the defensive equal to byron scott
Williams is better than green
Kerr is equal to rambi as far as roles
Jason caffey avg 8 ppg and 4 rbds on over 50% shooting and avg 13 ppg and 8 rbds starting for rodman. Is equal to mychal thompsons 10 ppg and 4 rbds on under 50% shooting.
Randy brown is better than wes mathews
Wennington is better tham smrek
And I havnt even brought up longley who was a damn good defender and had a wet jumpshot from 15 feet.

[97 bulls]

Worthy lit up Rodman for 42 points in game 7 of the '88 Finals. Rodman the player who shut down Jordan/Pippen's Bulls in the playoffs.

In fact, Rodman himself said his Pistons Championship teams were better then any of the Bulls championship teams he played on.

As far as the 80's Lakers wouldn't be able to beat any of the Bulls teams from 96-98.


Key Factors.

- Magic would dominate vs Jordan or Harper, Pippen would give him the most problems but even with a injured squad in 1991 he went for 22/10/6, 16/20/11 against Pippen. With a Worthy and Kareem NOBODY would would stop Magic.

- Worthy, Jordan wouldn't be able to handle Worthy. Jordan's only weakness was being posted up. Magic Johnson exploited this in games 1 and 2 of the 1991 Finals. After putting 3 fouls on Jordan in the first half of game 2, Phil Jackson opted to move Pippen over to guard Magic and put Jordan on James Worthy. Fortunately for Jordan and Jackson, Worthy was playing on a SPRAINED ANKLE which eliminated his dominance

- Kareem. Even in his 40's, Kareem was a top 3 center in the league! With the Bulls having no offensive threat at the 5 position Kareem could rest and just give help out defense. Longley was a pesty center but Kareem would be just too much for him. NO WAY IN HELL that Longley would give him more trouble then the Front line of the 80's era Celtics that Kareem went against. :lol

- 96-98 Jordan was no where near the same defensive player as he was from 87'-93 Jordan. Damon Stoudamire had his way with Jordan in 1996 (Stoudamire's rookie season). While Stoudamire was very quick, Phil Jackson's answer to him spoke volumes about Jordan: Phil put Scottie Pippen on Stoudamire. Jordan was so slow that a 6'7" 225 lb forward was Phil's answer to a guard Damon. Phil began opting to put Ron Harper on the other team's better offensive guard. Old Jordan simply could not guard the best guards any more (remember when he got caught in the switch with Iverson the next year and how bad Iverson made him look?) Offensively 96' Jordan relied on post up moves and a mid range pull up jumper. Sound familiar? Michael Cooper had wars with Bird who wasn't as gifted athletically but had one of the deadliest jumpers and post up game ever. Cooper had the perfect build to give Jordan problems. Would Jordan score a lot? yes, would that mean the Bulls would win? NO (remember the 63 point game vs Boston?...the Bulls LOST!)

- Scottie Pippen. Maybe the best perimeter defender ever. Pippen would be the Bulls only hope. He would give Magic the most trouble but as I showed before, Magic still averaged nearly a triple double without Kareem and a injured Worthy. On defense (If you never seen Pippen play you missed something special) he could almost single-handedly put breaks on the L.A. showtime race car but even with the pit bull defense of Pippen and the offense prowess of Jordan the 87' Lakers had too much firepower.

Another post that fails on so many levels. Come on des. If your gonna debate this, at least be realistic. Bring up stoudemire and iverson? You don't think they do the same thing to scott and magic. No wayyyyyyy worse. Basing your comparison of worthy using 2nd yr rodman who played limited minutes? The only thing you did get right is pippens defense.

And how bout all the teams the laker lost to that they should've beat? Not to mention the dispicable and weak conference they played in.

[Round Mound]

The 1980-88 Lakers would beat any 1990`s Bull Team

[jlauber]

Not to sound crass but how do you rate teams of the 60's and 70's....how do you watch enough games to make a solid decision?

I SAW every one of those teams play. I am a bit biased with Chamberlain-led teams, but I will tell you this much. I listened to, or watched EVERY Laker game in that magical 71-72 season, and I have never seen a team dominate an entire league the way that team did.

That Laker team only lost two games to one team all season (they went 4-2 against Phoenix.) They faced every team at least four times, and many six times. They had a 4-1 record against 56-26 Boston, they went 5-1 against the 51-31 Warriors (and won two games by margins of 129-99 and 162-99.) They went 5-1 against 47-35 Seattle. They went 3-1 against the Bullets. Counting the playoffs, they went 8-2 against the 48-34 Knicks (a team with FIVE HOFers), 7-1 against the 57-25 Bulls, and 8-3 against the defending champions 63-19 Bucks. They routed EVERY team at least once and most at least twice.

During the regular season, they failed to score 100 points, ONE time. They had that 33 game winning streak, and during that streak, they only had ten games of single digit wins (obviously 23 with double-digit wins)...and during that streak, they won by an average of +15.6 ppg. For the season, they outscored their opponents by a record differential of +12.3 ppg (121.0 to 108.7.) And they outshot their opponents by a .498 to .432 margin.

Goodrich averaged 25.9 ppg on .487 shooting. West averaged 25.8 ppg on .477 shooting, AND he led the league in assists, as well as a first-team all-defense. McMillian replaced Baylor and averaged 19.2 ppg on .482 shooting. Hairston grabbed over a 1000 rebounds, giving the Lakers TWO players with that accomplishment, and he averaged 13.1 rpg. Wilt led the league in rebounding (by nearly three per game) at 19.2 rpg, and he shot a league-leading .649 from the field. In addition, he was voted first team all-defense. And their bench had John Q. Trapp, a very tenacious rebounder and defender; Pat Riley, a scrappy defender; 6-11 LeRoy Ellis, who was a decent backup at at both PF and C, and could shoot from about 20 feet. And, those who actually saw Flynn Robinson play, and that would include West and Goodrich, would tell you that he was their best pure shooter (9.9 ppg on .490 FG%...mostly from what would be today's 3pt line.)

Once again, I have never seen a team dominate an entire league like that team did. How explosive was their offense?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1972_games.html

They had 19 games of scoring 130+ points, six games of 140+, four games of 150+ points, and that one game in which they routed the Warriors, 162-99.

[97 bulls]

Not that it makes much differece, but I don't remember rodman saying that the pistons were better. I do remember parrish saying that though. And even if he did, how do you put much stock into a guy that marries himself? Rodman was always gonna say something controversial.

Its just like when pat riley (the coach of the 80s lakers) says jordan is the greatest ever, and even wants to or feels every team should retire number 23. And yet laker fans still think magic or kareem is better. Or when kobe states clearly that jordan is the greatesst ever and yet i still see guys like desperado say kobe is.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Wow, therese so many untruths in this post. Worthy didn't play in the last game. And in all the others, he showed no signs of being injured. In fact, he played well over 40 minutes in 3 of the four games he played. Dunleavy didn't slow down the laker offense. They still ran. Why would he change a system that brought them five championships? You also bring up every single championship team the lakers had as if they were rolled into one. In the early 80s, kareem was dominant but not worthy. By the back to back teams, kareem was clearly a shadow of his former self. Scott didn't play with mcadoo and wilks. And jordan was only in foul trouble in one game. A game that pippen filled in admirably.


The bulls were one last second shot away from a sweep. And 91 was by no means the bulls best team. 97 was the best. And I don't see an aging jabaar and cooper swing the game in the laker direction.


97 bulls over 87 lakers in 6

Worthy injured the ankle against Portland and although he stilled played well in the early games against Chicago he wasn't very explosive and he wasn't able to maintain it. He was visibly limping around the court until he could no longer continue in game 4 and he didn't dress for game 5. LA was at home for games 3,4,and 5. A healthy Worthy would have made a big difference especially considering how close some of those games were. Scott hurt his shoulder and got knocked out of game 4 and didn't dress for the closeout game 5 either.

Dunleavy absolutely slowed the pace of the Lakers offense. So much so that Magic Johnson was very upset about it early in the year and spoke about it publicly. If you watch the Finals games their entire offense was Perkins or Divac posting up and waiting for a double team. Magic and Worthy would post up occasionally but they hardly ran at all. Just as it was during the regular season.

I took for granted that people on Inside hoops are smart enough to assume that some of the Laker players weren't there every year from 1980 to 1987. Although Byron Scott and Worhty both played with McAdoo and Wilkes in 1983-84 and 1984-85. As the older players declined the younger guy's roles increased. Not exacty rocket science dude.

Cooper was a 1 time defensive player of the year and and none other than Larry Bird called him the toughest defender he ever played against. Also, Jabbar was still plenty dominant in most of those years. His big decline wasn't until the 87-88 season and as you should have noticed I only listed the Championship teams from 80 to 87. I didn't include the 1988 title team specifically because of Kareem's age. Those factors would have made a big difference when compared with LA's 1991 team and I guarantee that Magic Johnson would say the same thing.

None of this guarantees that LA would Beat Chicago. It's all a matter of opinion. However, it's obvious that you don't know as much about the Lakers as you think you do. Kiss my balls.

[Go Getter]

I SAW every one of those teams play. I am a bit biased with Chamberlain-led teams, but I will tell you this much. I listened to, or watched EVERY Laker game in that magical 71-72 season, and I have never seen a team dominate an entire league the way that team did.

That Laker team only lost two games to one team all season (they went 4-2 against Phoenix.) They faced every team at least four times, and many six times. They had a 4-1 record against 56-26 Boston, they went 5-1 against the 51-31 Warriors (and won two games by margins of 129-99 and 162-99.) They went 5-1 against 47-35 Seattle. They went 3-1 against the Bullets. Counting the playoffs, they went 8-2 against the 48-34 Knicks (a team with FIVE HOFers), 7-1 against the 57-25 Bulls, and 8-3 against the defending champions 63-19 Bucks. They routed EVERY team at least once and most at least twice.

During the regular season, they failed to score 100 points, ONE time. They had that 33 game winning streak, and during that streak, they only had ten games of single digit wins (obviously 23 with double-digit wins)...and during that streak, they won by an average of +15.6 ppg. For the season, they outscored their opponents by a record differential of +12.3 ppg (121.0 to 108.7.) And they outshot their opponents by a .498 to .432 margin.

Goodrich averaged 25.9 ppg on .487 shooting. West averaged 25.8 ppg on .477 shooting, AND he led the league in assists, as well as a first-team all-defense. McMillian replaced Baylor and averaged 19.2 ppg on .482 shooting. Hairston grabbed over a 1000 rebounds, giving the Lakers TWO players with that accomplishment, and he averaged 13.1 rpg. Wilt led the league in rebounding (by nearly three per game) at 19.2 rpg, and he shot a league-leading .649 from the field. In addition, he was voted first team all-defense. And their bench had John Q. Trapp, a very tenacious rebounder and defender; Pat Riley, a scrappy defender; 6-11 LeRoy Ellis, who was a decent backup at at both PF and C, and could shoot from about 20 feet. And, those who actually saw Flynn Robinson play, and that would include West and Goodrich, would tell you that he was their best pure shooter (9.9 ppg on .490 FG%...mostly from what would be today's 3pt line.)

Once again, I have never seen a team dominate an entire league like that team did. How explosive was their offense?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1972_games.html

They had 19 games of scoring 130+ points, six games of 140+, four games of 150+ points, and that one game in which they routed the Warriors, 162-99.
'Nuff said.:cheers:

[the_wise_one]

Was it the toughest era?

They sort of had a cake walk through the West didn't they?

Yes to both questions.

Anyway, Lakers with Kareem as the #1 option would beat the Bulls of the 90s in a 7 game series.

Lakers with Magic as the #1 option would lose.

[1987_Lakers]

Dunleavy didn't slow down the laker offense. They still ran. Why would he change a system that brought them five championships?

Lakers were not the fast break team they were in the 80's. In 1991 they were pretty much a half court team. Teams like the Blazers & Bulls were better than the Lakers on the fastbreak by 1991.

1991 Lakers Pace Factor: 94.1 (25th in NBA)

In fact they beat the Blazers in 1991 by playing half court. The Lakers couldn

[97 bulls]

Worthy injured the ankle against Portland and although he stilled played well in the early games against Chicago he wasn't very explosive and he wasn't able to maintain it. He was visibly limping around the court until he could no longer continue in game 4 and he didn't dress for game 5. LA was at home for games 3,4,and 5. A healthy Worthy would have made a big difference especially considering how close some of those games were. Scott hurt his shoulder and got knocked out of game 4 and didn't dress for the closeout game 5 either.

Dunleavy absolutely slowed the pace of the Lakers offense. So much so that Magic Johnson was very upset about it early in the year and spoke about it publicly. If you watch the Finals games their entire offense was Perkins or Divac posting up and waiting for a double team. Magic and Worthy would post up occasionally but they hardly ran at all. Just as it was during the regular season.

I took for granted that people on Inside hoops are smart enough to assume that some of the Laker players weren't there every year from 1980 to 1987. Although Byron Scott and Worhty both played with McAdoo and Wilkes in 1983-84 and 1984-85. As the older players declined the younger guy's roles increased. Not exacty rocket science dude.

Cooper was a 1 time defensive player of the year and and none other than Larry Bird called him the toughest defender he ever played against. Also, Jabbar was still plenty dominant in most of those years. His big decline wasn't until the 87-88 season and as you should have noticed I only listed the Championship teams from 80 to 87. I didn't include the 1988 title team specifically because of Kareem's age. Those factors would have made a big difference when compared with LA's 1991 team and I guarantee that Magic Johnson would say the same thing.

None of this guarantees that LA would Beat Chicago. It's all a matter of opinion. However, it's obvious that you don't know as much about the Lakers as you think you do. Kiss my balls.
Wow, spoken like a true laker fan. I expose your untruths and your reply is kiss your balls? Sad. Even in 87 kareem was at best a good center. Who avg 17 ppg in an era similsr to nba live video games.

I for one feel 97 was the bulls best team. 69 wins for an injury plagued team. A solid center in the playoffs in brian williams. And I like jordan in the post at like 220 lbs vs 175 lbs michael cooper.

[97 bulls]

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Lakers were not the fast break team they were in the 80's. In 1991 they were pretty much a half court team. Teams like the Blazers & Bulls were better than the Lakers on the fastbreak by 1991.

1991 Lakers Pace Factor: 94.1 (25th in NBA)

In fact they beat the Blazers in 1991 by playing half court. The Lakers couldn

[G.O.A.T]

Not to sound crass but how do you rate teams of the 60's and 70's....how do you watch enough games to make a solid decision?

How many games on average do you feel you've watched of the last five champs and runners-up...

Maybe parts of 8-10 games?

Better yet, what about the other 29 teams, unless you've seen enough of them you really can't put what the Champs did into perspective...

Obviously I'm being facetious.

You don't need to watch a team to make a decision, you can also read about and listen to other peoples opinions of them.

Even when we watch, what are we watching for?

For me it's entertainment, not analysis. I analyze afterward, I enjoy while it's happening.

[AK47DR91]

96-98 MJ's will beats any Laker team ever.
I agree!!!! :cheers:

[G-Funk]

Wow, therese so many untruths in this post. Worthy didn't play in the last game. And in all the others, he showed no signs of being injured. In fact, he played well over 40 minutes in 3 of the four games he played. Dunleavy didn't slow down the laker offense. They still ran. Why would he change a system that brought them five championships? You also bring up every single championship team the lakers had as if they were rolled into one. In the early 80s, kareem was dominant but not worthy. By the back to back teams, kareem was clearly a shadow of his former self. Scott didn't play with mcadoo and wilks. And jordan was only in foul trouble in one game. A game that pippen filled in admirably.


The bulls were one last second shot away from a sweep. And 91 was by no means the bulls best team. 97 was the best. And I don't see an aging jabaar and cooper swing the game in the laker direction.


97 bulls over 87 lakers in 6


Where are you spilling your shit from?? Dunleavy Completely turned around the system for the Lakers. Don't call out someone for their facts when your the one saying bullshit.

[jlauber]

That 90-91 Laker team was a testament to the greatness of Magic. Hard to believe, but that team was just a shell of the mid-80's Lakers. Worthy, despite a career high 21.4 ppg, was already on the decline, despite only being 29. His FG% had dropped WAY down to a then career-low .492, and then it really went down-hill (.447 in both '92 and '93, and .406 in his last season.)

Magic, at only 31, had lost his explosiveness. He was able to compensate by improving many facets of his game throughout his career, but he was no longer able to go "coast-to-coast" like he did in the 80's.

The rest of that Laker squad was just a shell of what it had been in the mid-to-late 80's. Scott was a decent scorer and shooter, but he too, was on a severe downslide. Most fans here probably do not know this, but Scott actually averaged 21.7 ppg on .527 shooting with the 87-88 Lakers.

So, when someone tells you that MJ "owned " Magic in the Finals that year...yes, he did. BUT, that was NOT a PRIME Magic. NONE of those Laker players were anywhere near their peaks.

All you need to know is that Magic retired after that season, and LA dropped to a record of 43-39, and then followed that with a 39-43 mark. I have said it many times, but Magic's impact with LA was just amazing. He took what had been basically a slightly above average team to nine Finals in 12 years, and five rings. And after he left they went right back to being an average team.

[EarlTheGoat]

That 90-91 Laker team was a testament to the greatness of Magic. Hard to believe, but that team was just a shell of the mid-80's Lakers. Worthy, despite a career high 21.4 ppg, was already on the decline, despite only being 29. His FG% had dropped WAY down to a then career-low .492, and then it really went down-hill (.447 in both '92 and '93, and .406 in his last season.)

Magic, at only 31, had lost his explosiveness. He was able to compensate by improving many facets of his game throughout his career, but he was no longer able to go "coast-to-coast" like he did in the 80's.

The rest of that Laker squad was just a shell of what it had been in the mid-to-late 80's. Scott was a decent scorer and shooter, but he too, was on a severe downslide. Most fans here probably do not know this, but Scott actually averaged 21.7 ppg on .527 shooting with the 87-88 Lakers.

So, when someone tells you that MJ "owned " Magic in the Finals that year...yes, he did. BUT, that was NOT a PRIME Magic. NONE of those Laker players were anywhere near their peaks.

All you need to know is that Magic retired after that season, and LA dropped to a record of 43-39, and then followed that with a 39-43 mark. I have said it many times, but Magic's impact with LA was just amazing. He took what had been basically a slightly above average team to nine Finals in 12 years, and five rings. And after he left they went right back to being an average team.

Very good post and I agree with everything.

But I think that none version of the 90-93 Bulls would win the 85-88 Lakers. Kareem Abdul Jabbar despite being old, if motivated could easily dominate that Bulls front-court, I dont see any of those players holding him effectively. Magic at his prime would push the tempo against a team that mostly liked to play on the half-court.

Perhaps the 96-97 Bulls could win them but I dont see the rest of the versions defeating them in a series.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Wow, spoken like a true laker fan. I expose your untruths and your reply is kiss your balls? Sad. Even in 87 kareem was at best a good center. Who avg 17 ppg in an era similsr to nba live video games.

I for one feel 97 was the bulls best team. 69 wins for an injury plagued team. A solid center in the playoffs in brian williams. And I like jordan in the post at like 220 lbs vs 175 lbs michael cooper.

I'm not sure what untruths you exposed. I suggested you kiss my balls only after I took the time to describe in detail that I was telling the truth about the Lakers. You are the one who doesn't have your facts straight. You didn't attempt to prove me wrong either. You completely ignored everything I wrote other than the invitation to kiss my balls.

Did Worthy and Byron Scott play 2 years with Jamaal Wilks and Bob McAdoo or didn't they? You said Worthy showed no signs of being injured in the series. Then you must not have seen him visibly limping in game 4. He came out of that game and didn't return for the second half. He and Scott didn't even dress for game 5. That is a fact. If you don't think that Jordan and Pip didn't pick up a lot of fouls guarding Magic then you must not have watched all the games. Their supposed best defense of all time had no impact on Magic stats which were all equal to or higher than his season averages. LA was a post up team in 1991 and that was obvious to anyone who was around back then and watched them play.

If you think the Bulls would have beaten the 80's Lakers, then that's your opinion but you are the one who is spitting the untruths about LA. And, yes, you can kiss my balls. I don't like the douchebag tone of your posts. We are all just giving our opinions here. You don't need to be a d**k, especially if you're wrong.

[1987_Lakers]

I'm not sure what untruths you exposed. I suggested you kiss my balls only after I took the time to describe in detail that I was telling the truth about the Lakers. You are the one who doesn't have your facts straight. You didn't attempt to prove me wrong either. You completely ignored everything I wrote other than the invitation to kiss my balls.

Did Worthy and Byron Scott play 2 years with Jamaal Wilks and Bob McAdoo or didn't they? You said Worthy showed no signs of being injured in the series. Then you must not have seen him visibly limping in game 4. He came out of that game and didn't return for the second half. He and Scott didn't even dress for game 5. That is a fact. If you don't think that Jordan and Pip didn't pick up a lot of fouls guarding Magic then you must not have watched all the games. Their supposed best defense of all time had no impact on Magic stats which were all equal to or higher than his season averages. LA was a post up team in 1991 and that was obvious to anyone who was around back then and watched them play.

If you think the Bulls would have beaten the 80's Lakers, then that's your opinion but you are the one who is spitting the untruths about LA. And, yes, you can kiss my balls. I don't like the douchebag tone of your posts. We are all just giving our opinions here. You don't need to be a d**k, especially if you're wrong.

:applause:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Hysterical that somehow Magic and the other Lakers were "way past prime" at age 28-31, yet Jordan was still dominating the NBA at age 35 somehow. Go figure.

[magnax1]

80's Lakers couldn't compete on defense with the bulls in any way. Jordan and Pippen with a bunch of scrubs could compete with the 80's Lakers on offense.

[jlauber]

80's Lakers couldn't compete on defense with the bulls in any way. Jordan and Pippen with a bunch of scrubs could compete with the 80's Lakers on offense.

Interesting...since the Lakers of the 80's generally got the best of the 80's Celtics. They must have had some defense to have beaten those great Boston teams...one of them with FIVE HOFers.

[PHILA]

Give me the '67 Sixers over both.

[indiefan24]

Hysterical that somehow Magic and the other Lakers were "way past prime" at age 28-31, yet Jordan was still dominating the NBA at age 35 somehow. Go figure.

Jordan took over a year off... go figure.

[indiefan24]

Give me the '67 Sixers over both.

make a new thread.

[indiefan24]

I agree!!!! :cheers:

96-98 MJ teams are better than any celtics team ever

:cheers:

[PHILA]

make a new thread.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145164

[97 bulls]

That 90-91 Laker team was a testament to the greatness of Magic. Hard to believe, but that team was just a shell of the mid-80's Lakers. Worthy, despite a career high 21.4 ppg, was already on the decline, despite only being 29. His FG% had dropped WAY down to a then career-low .492, and then it really went down-hill (.447 in both '92 and '93, and .406 in his last season.)

Magic, at only 31, had lost his explosiveness. He was able to compensate by improving many facets of his game throughout his career, but he was no longer able to go "coast-to-coast" like he did in the 80's.

The rest of that Laker squad was just a shell of what it had been in the mid-to-late 80's. Scott was a decent scorer and shooter, but he too, was on a severe downslide. Most fans here probably do not know this, but Scott actually averaged 21.7 ppg on .527 shooting with the 87-88 Lakers.

So, when someone tells you that MJ "owned " Magic in the Finals that year...yes, he did. BUT, that was NOT a PRIME Magic. NONE of those Laker players were anywhere near their peaks.

All you need to know is that Magic retired after that season, and LA dropped to a record of 43-39, and then followed that with a 39-43 mark. I have said it many times, but Magic's impact with LA was just amazing. He took what had been basically a slightly above average team to nine Finals in 12 years, and five rings. And after he left they went right back to being an average team.
I think that the league finall caught up to the lakers strength which was athleticism. There's no way on gods green earth that a player gets old at 29 in worthys case and what 27 in byrons scotts case. And like I said, magic was the reigning mvp he was in no way old. The age excuse is rediculous.

But since you brought up worthy, I took a quick look at what he did after magic retired. And he did seem through by 30. I think jaames worthy was a product of the style that the lakers used. At 32 yrss old, he was a bench player. George lynch at 23 started over him. And don't use the "he was injured" excuse cuz he played in 80 games. He is quit posibly the most overrated player in all sports. I used to feel he was similar to shawn marion. But now I feel marion was better than him. And going back to 91, the reason why he shot 49 % was cuz he decided he should be taking 3s. James worthy is a joke.

[jlauber]

I think that the league finall caught up to the lakers strength which was athleticism. There's no way on gods green earth that a player gets old at 29 in worthys case and what 27 in byrons scotts case. And like I said, magic was the reigning mvp he was in no way old. The age excuse is rediculous.

But since you brought up worthy, I took a quick look at what he did after magic retired. And he did seem through by 30. I think jaames worthy was a product of the style that the lakers used. At 32 yrss old, he was a bench player. George lynch at 23 started over him. And don't use the "he was injured" excuse cuz he played in 80 games. He is quit posibly the most overrated player in all sports. I used to feel he was similar to shawn marion. But now I feel marion was better than him. And going back to 91, the reason why he shot 49 % was cuz he decided he should be taking 3s. James worthy is a joke.

Yeah...he was a joke. That is why his nickname was "Big Game James."

[jlauber]

I think that the league finall caught up to the lakers strength which was athleticism. There's no way on gods green earth that a player gets old at 29 in worthys case and what 27 in byrons scotts case. And like I said, magic was the reigning mvp he was in no way old. The age excuse is rediculous.

But since you brought up worthy, I took a quick look at what he did after magic retired. And he did seem through by 30. I think jaames worthy was a product of the style that the lakers used. At 32 yrss old, he was a bench player. George lynch at 23 started over him. And don't use the "he was injured" excuse cuz he played in 80 games. He is quit posibly the most overrated player in all sports. I used to feel he was similar to shawn marion. But now I feel marion was better than him. And going back to 91, the reason why he shot 49 % was cuz he decided he should be taking 3s. James worthy is a joke.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Worthy

[QUOTE]After the Lakers lost the 1991 Finals to the Chicago Bulls, followed by the sudden retirement of Magic in November 1991, Worthy played for three more seasons. By this time, injuries and mileage caught up with "Big Game James": [B]A high ankle injury during the 1991 playoffs and season-ending knee surgery in 1992 robbed Worthy of much of his quickness and leaping ability. After struggling with knee pain in the preseason of the 1994

[97 bulls]

Yeah...he was a joke. That is why his nickname was "Big Game James."
He was a good player. But him being in the hall is a joke. Its obviouss thaat he couldn't lead a team based on his pre magic years.

[jlauber]

He was a good player. But him being in the hall is a joke. Its obviouss thaat he couldn't lead a team based on his pre magic years.

Two points...

One, he came into the league AFTER Magic. Secondly, at North Carolina, it was WORTHY that led the Tar Heels to their ONLY title in the Jordan-era.

[97 bulls]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Worthy
Lol the man played a full season. Stop the excuses. I know he was injured in 92. But what about after that? Ill answer that for you. The league caught up and by the mid 90s passed him athleticaly.

[97 bulls]

Two points...

One, he came into the league AFTER Magic. Secondly, at North Carolina, it was WORTHY that led the Tar Heels to their ONLY title in the Jordan-era.
Hold on J. Let me respond to kobe 24s post.

[1987_Lakers]

I think that the league finall caught up to the lakers strength which was athleticism. There's no way on gods green earth that a player gets old at 29 in worthys case and what 27 in byrons scotts case. And like I said, magic was the reigning mvp he was in no way old. The age excuse is rediculous.

lol @ you acting like the '91 Lakers were comparable to Lakers of '84-'88.

Lets see. The '91 Lakers didn't have Kareem who was a top 2-3 center during the 80's, they didn't have one of the best defensive guards of the 80's in Michael Cooper, & they didn't have one of the greatest coaches of all time in Pat Riley.

[jlauber]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Worthy

[QUOTE]After graduating high school, Worthy attended the University of North Carolina (UNC). He quickly became a standout at UNC but saw his freshman year cut short by a broken ankle suffered near mid-season. As a sophomore he was a key member of that school's 1981 NCAA runner up team, playing with Al Wood and Sam Perkins.

[B]As a junior power forward, Worthy was the leading scorer (15.6 points per game) of a Tar Heel NCAA championship team which featured future NBA stars Sam Perkins and freshman Michael Jordan. A consensus first team All-American,[1] Worthy shared College Player of the Year honors with Virginia Cavalier Ralph Sampson.[2] The 1982 championship game against the Georgetown Hoyas is notable for Worthy's steal of a pass inadvertently thrown to him by the Hoya's point guard Fred Brown, which sealed the Tar Heels' 63

[97 bulls]

I'm not sure what untruths you exposed. I suggested you kiss my balls only after I took the time to describe in detail that I was telling the truth about the Lakers. You are the one who doesn't have your facts straight. You didn't attempt to prove me wrong either. You completely ignored everything I wrote other than the invitation to kiss my balls.

Did Worthy and Byron Scott play 2 years with Jamaal Wilks and Bob McAdoo or didn't they? You said Worthy showed no signs of being injured in the series. Then you must not have seen him visibly limping in game 4. He came out of that game and didn't return for the second half. He and Scott didn't even dress for game 5. That is a fact. If you don't think that Jordan and Pip didn't pick up a lot of fouls guarding Magic then you must not have watched all the games. Their supposed best defense of all time had no impact on Magic stats which were all equal to or higher than his season averages. LA was a post up team in 1991 and that was obvious to anyone who was around back then and watched them play.

If you think the Bulls would have beaten the 80's Lakers, then that's your opinion but you are the one who is spitting the untruths about LA. And, yes, you can kiss my balls. I don't like the douchebag tone of your posts. We are all just giving our opinions here. You don't need to be a d**k, especially if you're wrong.
Yes scott played with mac and wilks. And yes jordan and pippen accumilated a lot of fouls in that championship. But magic wasn't as effective as the stats show. Other than game 1, he shot a terrible % and avg over 5 TOs in all but 1 game. That's what being a great defender does to a great offensive player. If you make him shoot a bad % and force a lot TOs then you've done your job.

Now hout bout you pick your favorite or the team you feel was the 8ps lakers best and let's have a debate. My 97 bulls vs whichever team you feel is your best.

[jlauber]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Worthy

[QUOTE]"Big Game James"
1985 saw a Laker team that was on a mission of redemption; it was during the play-off run to winning the championship that year that Worthy took a big step forward as a clutch performer. Worthy averaged 21.5 points per game on .622 percent shooting in the playoffs, and it was his inspired play against the Celtics (23.7 points per game in the Finals)[3] that further established Worthy as one of the league's premier players. It was also in 1985, after sustaining an eye injury against the Utah Jazz in March, that Worthy was forced to wear goggles. He wore protective eyewear for the rest of his career.

The 1985

[97 bulls]

lol @ you acting like the '91 Lakers were comparable to Lakers of '84-'88.

Lets see. The '91 Lakers didn't have Kareem who was a top 2-3 center during the 80's, they didn't have one of the best defensive guards of the 80's in Michael Cooper, & they didn't have one of the greatest coaches of all time in Pat Riley.
Pat riley barely beat the bulls without jordan in 94. Jordan would've murdered cooper in the post. And the bulls have beaten teams with centers with center more dominant than a 37 yr old kareem.

[97 bulls]

Also, I don't think magic had that great of a series. He shot a bad % after game 1, avg almost 5 TOs a game and allowed john paxson, a guy that avg 9.7 ppg to avg almost 16 including an 8 for 8 game and a 20 point game. Magic was a terrible defender.

[jlauber]

Also, I don't think magic had that great of a series. He shot a bad % after game 1, avg almost 5 TOs a game and allowed john paxson, a guy that avg 9.7 ppg to avg almost 16 including an 8 for 8 game and a 20 point game. Magic was a terrible defender.

Once again, you are basing your opinion on the Lakers of '91...a team which was a shell of what they had been in the 80's.

I could say that Jordan was an awful shooter in 01-02 too, when he shot .416. And no, I don't care about the ages of the players. Magic in '91 was no longer the explosive Magic. And I already have shown that Worthy on a severe down-slide, even before that series, and then an injury in that series pretty much finished his career.

[97 bulls]

Interesting...since the Lakers of the 80's generally got the best of the 80's Celtics. They must have had some defense to have beaten those great Boston teams...one of them with FIVE HOFers.
Well according to some celtics fans, the lakers beat them in 87 cuz I believe walton and mchale had nagging injuries. Its also funny that laker fans alway allude to worthy and scott missing one game, in a series that the bulls had total control of. And yet never acknowledge 87 or the fact that the pistons were gonna tap that ass in 88 if thomas (who unlike worthy) was really limping. And yet they act like an asterisk needs to be put next to the bulls 91 championship.

[jlauber]

Well according to some celtics fans, the lakers beat them in 87 cuz I believe walton and mchale had nagging injuries. Its also funny that laker fans alway allude to worthy and scott missing one game, in a series that the bulls had total control of. And yet never acknowledge 87 or the fact that the pistons were gonna tap that ass in 88 if thomas (who unlike worthy) was really limping. And yet they act like an asterisk needs to be put next to the bulls 91 championship.

I don't know who made the claim that the Bulls should have an asterick next to their '91 title team. The Bulls were a better team. BUT, that was not a Laker team of the 80's they were facing.

The Pistons lost to the Lakers in '88, and perhaps they were unfortunate with that injury...but here again, Kareem was awful by that time. That Piston team would not have come close to LA in the mid-80's, or even '87. As for the Celtics, LA romped in that '87 series. They also easily beat Boston in '85. AND, they SHOULD have SWEPT the Celtics in '84.

[97 bulls]

Once again, you are basing your opinion on the Lakers of '91...a team which was a shell of what they had been in the 80's.

I could say that Jordan was an awful shooter in 01-02 too, when he shot .416. And no, I don't care about the ages of the players. Magic in '91 was no longer the explosive Magic. And I already have shown that Worthy on a severe down-slide, even before that series, and then an injury in that series pretty much finished his career.
Lol an ankle sprain finished his career? Come on J, your Better than that.

And I'm not saying that the 91 lakers were as good as the early and mid 80s lakers. You guys keep bringing up 91. I'm just rebutaling. And how does a 38 yr old jordan compare to 31 yr old magic?

[1987_Lakers]

Pat riley barely beat the bulls without jordan in 94. Jordan would've murdered cooper in the post. And the bulls have beaten teams with centers with center more dominant than a 37 yr old kareem.

Pat Riley's Knicks weren't as good as showtime. And a 37 year old Kareem had a better team around him compared to Ewing & Shaq.

Jordan vs Cooper the year Coop won DPOY:
11-28-86: 44 FG%
2-20-87: 41 FG%

Cooper would without a doubt make things tougher on MJ. I would much rather have Cooper on him than Scott.

[1987_Lakers]

The Pistons lost to the Lakers in '88, and perhaps they were unfortunate with that injury...but here again, Kareem was awful by that time. That Piston team would not have come close to LA in the mid-80's, or even '87. As for the Celtics, LA romped in that '87 series. They also easily beat Boston in '85. AND, they SHOULD have SWEPT the Celtics in '84.

I agree. Kareem in '88 was no where near the player he was in '85 or even in '87 when he averaged 20 PPG in the Finals. Throw the '85 or '87 Lakers at the Pistons and the Lakers win with little trouble.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Yes scott played with mac and wilks. And yes jordan and pippen accumilated a lot of fouls in that championship.


Oh good, so now we agree. I could have sworn it was you that said the exact opposite of that before. I win the internet, yay!!!

[97 bulls]

I don't know who made the claim that the Bulls should have an asterick next to their '91 title team. The Bulls were a better team. BUT, that was not a Laker team of the 80's they were facing.

The Pistons lost to the Lakers in '88, and perhaps they were unfortunate with that injury...but here again, Kareem was awful by that time. That Piston team would not have come close to LA in the mid-80's, or even '87. As for the Celtics, LA romped in that '87 series. They also easily beat Boston in '85. AND, they SHOULD have SWEPT the Celtics in '84.
Are you kidding J? The lakers were the reigning champs. One yr removed from a 65 win season. Did kareem drop that much in one yr? And from reading other threads, it seems that the lakers and celtics never faced each other at full strength.

[97 bulls]

Oh good, so now we agree. I could have sworn it was you that said the exact opposite of that before. I win the internet, yay!!!
Lol. But you were wrong when you said that worthy missed 2 games and that he didn't play in the 2nd half of game 4. He did play 31 minutes

[1987_Lakers]

Are you kidding J? The lakers were the reigning champs. One yr removed from a 65 win season. Did kareem drop that much in one yr? And from reading other threads, it seems that the lakers and celtics never faced each other at full strength.

Alot can happen in one year. The '88 Lakers weren't as good as the '87 Lakers just like the '98 Bulls weren't as good as they were in '97. Go look what the Lakers did in the '87 postseason and compare it to their 88 postseason. The Lakers dominated the postseason in '87 only losing 1 game on their way to the Finals. The Lakers in '88 went to two straight seven game series before they reached the Finals. And every player except Scott was better in '87. Kareem & Cooper were starting to age quickly. Magic was obviously better in '87, Thompson as well etc etc

[97 bulls]

I agree. Kareem in '88 was no where near the player he was in '85 or even in '87 when he averaged 20 PPG in the Finals. Throw the '85 or '87 Lakers at the Pistons and the Lakers win with little trouble.
Ill pose the same question to you. How does 1 yr make that huge a difference? The 87 lakers are considered the best of that era by a lot of people, including me. Does having kareem one yr younger make that big a difference??????

[Rambis]

Well according to some celtics fans, the lakers beat them in 87 cuz I believe walton and mchale had nagging injuries. Its also funny that laker fans alway allude to worthy and scott missing one game, in a series that the bulls had total control of. And yet never acknowledge 87 or the fact that the pistons were gonna tap that ass in 88 if thomas (who unlike worthy) was really limping. And yet they act like an asterisk needs to be put next to the bulls 91 championship.

Hmmm. I love that someone calls others homers and then has the balls to argue that when his name is 97 bulls. When anyone major is injured, it does dilute a championship. Without question. I love how your opinion guarantees how the Bad Boys would have won if Thomas was healthy (sometimes teams do step up when someone is injured... BECAUSE they know they need to step up, so don't talk to me about how close it was as it played out)

Remind me again exactly who the bulls beat to win their championships. I forget. Oh yeah, and remind me again who MJ pushed out of the way to make his final shot. One of the top ten terrible calls of all time according to recent articles (google if ya need to).

With Michael, if you weren't a fan of the Bulls, the MJ era was painful. You could actually wait a few seconds after and then the ref would call the foul, every ****ing time. And of course, he never got fouls called on him as he pushed off or especially on defense, got away with murder (see above Byron Russell p.o.)

Without a doubt MJ was the gift receiver of foul calls beyond measure... and NEVER had fouls called on him. At least the Lakers had the Celtics, another team of equal cachet for whom the calls would be balanced out. Michael never had that "limitation." He was still great, but the foul calls were ridiculous.

So, in theory, with referees not the issue. It WOULD be offense vs. defense, and this center with the wet jump shot (how many all-pros or HOF busts does he have btw, cause he sounds Epic) would be matched against the greatest offensive center of all time.

Basically, the bulls were one of the deepest teams ever in the post expansion, BUT the bench on the Lakers basically had the best 6th man of the decade, who would likely kill the bulls if they tried to collapse. But hey, I forgot ho amazing Brian Williams was... so maybe I'm just misinformed.

BTW, you look at seven players without Magic Johnson and then the same seven with him, I don't care what you're talking about, those seven are MUCH better just for having Magic there with them. The greatest "make your teammates better player ever" without a doubt. ALWAYS put the ball where it needed to be. So, compare top 8s if you wish, but with Magic on the court... he actually made the players transcend themselves. Jordan gave everyone more space, but Magic put the ball where they needed it to perform. In my book that's more.

Jordan is better defensively without doubt, but toss the albatross 7'2" jabbar behind that D, it is at least going to trouble Jordan and superfriends.

[1987_Lakers]

Ill pose the same question to you. How does 1 yr make that huge a difference? The 87 lakers are considered the best of that era by a lot of people, including me. Does having kareem one yr younger make that big a difference??????

Like I said, it wasn't just Kareem, other players regressed as well. When you ask people to rank the 91-98 Bulls in order, most have the '97 team in the top 3 while the '98 team is ranked at the bottom most of the time. Alot can happen in 1 year.

[97 bulls]

Pat Riley's Knicks weren't as good as showtime. And a 37 year old Kareem had a better team around him compared to Ewing & Shaq.

Jordan vs Cooper the year Coop won DPOY:
11-28-86: 44 FG%
2-20-87: 41 FG%

Cooper would without a doubt make things tougher on MJ. I would much rather have Cooper on him than Scott.
Actually, I agree that cooper with his heaight speed and length would give jordan some problems. But the 96 through 98 jordan would take his lunch in th post. Coop would give away about 40 lbs to jordan. And he'd still be lightning quick on the perimeter with a wet jumpshot. Coop doesn't stand a chance

[1987_Lakers]

Coop would give away about 40 lbs to jordan

Cooper gave away like 50 lbs to Bird & Bird calls Cooper the player that defended him the best. MJ would get his, but Cooper would make that ass work.

[97 bulls]

Like I said, it wasn't just Kareem, other players regressed as well. When you ask people to rank the 91-98 Bulls in order, most have the '97 team in the top 3 while the '98 team is ranked at the bottom most of the time. Alot can happen in 1 year.
Yeah I hear you.. but I don't think the 98 bulls were in any way weak. I mean, pippen missed 30 games and they still won 62 games. And that's with the management trying to (in my opionion) sabotage the season by not resigning williams and trading a good young forward in jason caffey for peanuts and a warm beer.

[97 bulls]

Cooper gave away like 50 lbs to Bird & Bird calls Cooper the player that defended him the best. MJ would get his, but Cooper would make that ass work.
I don't think bird was as good in the post as jordan in 96-98.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Lol. But you were wrong when you said that worthy missed 2 games and that he didn't play in the 2nd half of game 4. He did play 31 minutes

It wasn't the start of the 3rd quarter when Worthy went out for good it was the end of the 3rd quarter. Wow, what a huge mistake. The fact remains that he was visibly limping and he scored a grand total of 12 points with a nice airball mixed in for good measure. He couldn't move laterally to defend either. I don't see much difference between missing game 4, and gimping around for part of game 4 until he had to pack it in for the rest of the series. Worthy wasn't healthy. He tried to gut it out but he could not. It absolutely was a factor and as I said I'm sure Magic Johnson would agree. We are talking about Hall of Famer, Big Game James.

[97 bulls]

Hmmm. I love that someone calls others homers and then has the balls to argue that when his name is 97 bulls. When anyone major is injured, it does dilute a championship. Without question. I love how your opinion guarantees how the Bad Boys would have won if Thomas was healthy (sometimes teams do step up when someone is injured... BECAUSE they know they need to step up, so don't talk to me about how close it was as it played out)

Remind me again exactly who the bulls beat to win their championships. I forget. Oh yeah, and remind me again who MJ pushed out of the way to make his final shot. One of the top ten terrible calls of all time according to recent articles (google if ya need to).

With Michael, if you weren't a fan of the Bulls, the MJ era was painful. You could actually wait a few seconds after and then the ref would call the foul, every ****ing time. And of course, he never got fouls called on him as he pushed off or especially on defense, got away with murder (see above Byron Russell p.o.)

Without a doubt MJ was the gift receiver of foul calls beyond measure... and NEVER had fouls called on him. At least the Lakers had the Celtics, another team of equal cachet for whom the calls would be balanced out. Michael never had that "limitation." He was still great, but the foul calls were ridiculous.

So, in theory, with referees not the issue. It WOULD be offense vs. defense, and this center with the wet jump shot (how many all-pros or HOF busts does he have btw, cause he sounds Epic) would be matched against the greatest offensive center of all time.

Basically, the bulls were one of the deepest teams ever in the post expansion, BUT the bench on the Lakers basically had the best 6th man of the decade, who would likely kill the bulls if they tried to collapse. But hey, I forgot ho amazing Brian Williams was... so maybe I'm just misinformed.

BTW, you look at seven players without Magic Johnson and then the same seven with him, I don't care what you're talking about, those seven are MUCH better just for having Magic there with them. The greatest "make your teammates better player ever" without a doubt. ALWAYS put the ball where it needed to be. So, compare top 8s if you wish, but with Magic on the court... he actually made the players transcend themselves. Jordan gave everyone more space, but Magic put the ball where they needed it to perform. In my book that's more.

Jordan is better defensively without doubt, but toss the albatross 7'2" jabbar behind that D, it is at least going to trouble Jordan and superfriends.
I never called anyone a homer. I don't know what your talking about. And the pushoff was nothing compared to what reggie miller did to him in the ECF.

And please don't bring up fouls cuz like kobe 4 the win stated, jordan and pippen stayed in foul trouble in the 91 finals. But like all the other times, the bulls overcame it. So don't act like all other stars don't get their calls.

I was waiting for someone to bring up the bulls competition. And my rebutal to that would be why do the bulls have to loose to the jazz or knicks or any other team they faced in order to validate their greatness? I mean, give karl malone 3 rings and he's arguably better than bird and magic same with stockton and ewing. And the bulls beat all of them.

And let me put this expansion nonsense to bed. The league has expanded at least every four years I believe since the mid to late 70s. Why were none of these other team able to crack 70? in fact, the league expande in I believe in 88, why didn't the lakers at least get in the high 60s as far as wins? They played in a weak conference. It seems like if they were so great, then they would've at least got close.

And why the brian williams hate? He was a damn good center when he got a chance to start. Even when he backed up shaq and mutombo, he put up solid stats. And as a starter avg 16 ppg and 10 rbds on over 50% shooting. I didn't know that was bad. I see no reason why he wouldn't put up that stats he did with denver and orlando as a key reserve if he did play the whole season with the bulls. Remember, he only played in 9 games and was trying to work off the rust. And he was only 28. Bottom line is that the 97 bulls were a complete team in that they had a legit big man. Something the other teams never had.

[97 bulls]

It wasn't the start of the 3rd quarter when Worthy went out for good it was the end of the 3rd quarter. Wow, what a huge mistake. The fact remains that he was visibly limping and he scored a grand total of 12 points with a nice airball mixed in for good measure. He couldn't move laterally to defend either. I don't see much difference between missing game 4, and gimping around for part of game 4 until he had to pack it in for the rest of the series. Worthy wasn't healthy. He tried to gut it out but he could not. It absolutely was a factor and as I said I'm sure Magic Johnson would agree. We are talking about Hall of Famer, Big Game James.I believe worthy got hurt in game 4 you act like he was hobling around the whole series. The fact is that by the time worthy got hurt, the bulls had the series well in hand. I think your just splitting hairs.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Worthy got injured against Portland. He played through the pain until he finally broke down and couldn't do it anymore. He wasn't at full strenght for the entire series. Even when he was playing well he could not be the explosive player that he usually was. He couldn't defend either. It was a big deal. Again, we are talking about hall of famer "Big Game" James Worthy. If that was the only thing that was wrong we still would have been hurting. But with Scott giving us nothing, No Michael Cooper to shoot 3's and defend, and inconsistant play from Perkins we were up sh*t creek without a paddle. I think we did well to steal game 1 and keep some other games competitive.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Ill pose the same question to you. How does 1 yr make that huge a difference? The 87 lakers are considered the best of that era by a lot of people, including me. Does having kareem one yr younger make that big a difference??????

Abso-f**kin-lutely

[97 bulls]

Worthy got injured against Portland. He played through the pain until he finally broke down and couldn't do it anymore. He wasn't at full strenght for the entire series. Even when he was playing well he could not be the explosive player that he usually was. He couldn't defend either. It was a big deal. Again, we are talking about hall of famer "Big Game" James Worthy. If that was the only thing that was wrong we still would have been hurting. But with Scott giving us nothing, No Michael Cooper to shoot 3's and defend, and inconsistant play from Perkins we were up sh*t creek without a paddle. I think we did well to steal game 1 and keep some other games competitive.
He played and they got their ass kicked by the bulls. Stop cryn and makin excuses. Id even agree with you had they took the bulls to six or seven games. But they were one lucky last second shot from being swept by a bulls squad that was not their best team. And michael cooper and an old as kareem aren't gonna swing a bulls lakers series that drasticly. That's an 8 game swing.

Besides, we saw how overrated worthy is by what happened to him after magic retired. He couldn't even start over george friggn lynch.

[97 bulls]

Abso-f**kin-lutely
Like I said, spoken like a true laker fan.

[Birmingham1955]

Give me Prime Michael Jordan in over anyone period.

[momo]

I have not read this whole thread. Hopefully this is not redundant.

The thing that fascinates me about this is not so much the players & matchups but this:

Depending on what year squads we are talking about you could have one of the best fast break teams ever VS one of the best pressure & trap teams ever.

And both are good at what the other is great at. Some of the Bulls squads I think of as GOAT candidate pressure/trap teams were fantastic @ transition O & the lakes were pretty darn good at pressuring & trapping them selves.

How that plays out from game to game would be pretty great to watch. Of course if it is worm era bulls, he and worthy face guarding each other would be epic as well :P

[Soundwave]

Give Jordan's Bulls the same "depth" as the 80s Lakers or Celtics and they'd beat both convincingly IMO (I think they'd probably win anyway but anyway).

The NBA added four teams in '88 and two more in '95 (second threepeat era) ... you can't tell me that doesn't dilute depth all around the league. That applies to all teams, not just the Bulls.

If the Bulls dynasty was 10 years earlier, they'd have been more stacked by virtue of talent being less spread out. If the Showtime Lakers were ten years later, they'd have less depth.

Jordan was simply better than Magic (Magic was great) ... you give me a Jordan-team vs. a Magic-team with similar talent around them and I'll pick the Jordan team every time. Magic was very good in the '91 finals, but Jordan was notably the better player and it's not like Magic was that old at that point.

Honestly I think Jordan was better than Magic or Bird by the late 80s, the team around him (Pippen and co.) just weren't mature enough yet to break though which saved the Lakers/Celtics/Pistons from experiencing the full wrath of the Bulls.

The Pistons didn't just get beat in '91 by the Bulls ... they got destroyed.

[97 bulls]

Give Jordan's Bulls the same "depth" as the 80s Lakers or Celtics and they'd beat both convincingly IMO (I think they'd probably win anyway but anyway).

The NBA added four teams in '88 and two more in '95 (second threepeat era) ... you can't tell me that doesn't dilute depth all around the league. That applies to all teams, not just the Bulls.

If the Bulls dynasty was 10 years earlier, they'd have been more stacked by virtue of talent being less spread out. If the Showtime Lakers were ten years later, they'd have less depth.

Jordan was simply better than Magic (Magic was great) ... you give me a Jordan-team vs. a Magic-team with similar talent around them and I'll pick the Jordan team every time. Magic was very good in the '91 finals, but Jordan was notably the better player and it's not like Magic was that old at that point.

Honestly I think Jordan was better than Magic or Bird by the late 80s, the team around him (Pippen and co.) just weren't mature enough yet to break though which saved the Lakers/Celtics/Pistons from experiencing the full wrath of the Bulls.

The Pistons didn't just get beat in '91 by the Bulls ... they got destroyed.
What if you had more basketball players to choose from? Due to a gain in popularity. More athletes chose basketball over other sports. Not to mention the influx of european players.

Never the less, the nba has xpanded consistantly since the 70s when the aba was abolished. They pickeed up four teams then dallas in 84. Thats five teams over 6 yrs. Why don't the 80s teams get knocked for expansion? And basketball wasn't nearly as popular as it was in the 90s. Meaning kids (the athletes of tommorow) were playn baseball and football.

I mean look at baseball today. Hardly any african american kids choose to play baseball anymore. Why? Cuz it not popular. Who do they go out and try to mimic? And the reason is not because african americans aren't good enough to play baseball, its just that they'd rather play football and basketball. Not to mention how bad boxing has gotten. They've lost out in the athletic pool thanks to a gain in basketball. And there's flat out more humans as time goes by anyway. All these things make basketball just as good qualitywise as its ever been. If not better.

[jlauber]

He played and they got their ass kicked by the bulls. Stop cryn and makin excuses. Id even agree with you had they took the bulls to six or seven games. But they were one lucky last second shot from being swept by a bulls squad that was not their best team. And michael cooper and an old as kareem aren't gonna swing a bulls lakers series that drasticly. That's an 8 game swing.

Besides, we saw how overrated worthy is by what happened to him after magic retired. He couldn't even start over george friggn lynch.

You must be referring to Worthy's LAST season, when he was completely washed up. Up until that season, Worthy was the full-time starter for every season from the 84-85 season thru 92-93...which includes two seasons AFTER Magic retired. And once again, injuries by the 90-91 season took their toll on the man...the same player who, in his prime, could hang 40 points on Rodman in a championship game. The same man who was labeled "Big Game James."

[jlauber]

He played and they got their ass kicked by the bulls. Stop cryn and makin excuses. Id even agree with you had they took the bulls to six or seven games. But they were one lucky last second shot from being swept by a bulls squad that was not their best team. And michael cooper and an old as kareem aren't gonna swing a bulls lakers series that drasticly. That's an 8 game swing.

Besides, we saw how overrated worthy is by what happened to him after magic retired. He couldn't even start over george friggn lynch.

And one more time...you are comparing a Laker team that was well past their peak. I could reverse the argument, and say that the late 80's Bulls team's couldn't even get to the Finals, despite having LOADED rosters. Players like Jordan, Grant, Oakley, Pippen, and Paxson. Meanwhile, the Lakers of that period were dominating the NBA. And what would a Laker team, circa 84-85, with a dominant Kareem have done to ANY Bulls's team? A team that could easily score 130 points on any given night.

[Indian guy]

Magic was obviously better in '87

Indeed, but why? He was only 28 in 87-88, but had a significantly inferior regular season + playoffs statistically compared to his 86-87 campaign. His numbers were back up to 86-87-level from 88-89 onwards though. Was Magic playing with an injury in 87-88?

[nycelt84]

What if you had more basketball players to choose from? Due to a gain in popularity. More athletes chose basketball over other sports. Not to mention the influx of european players.

Never the less, the nba has xpanded consistantly since the 70s when the aba was abolished. They pickeed up four teams then dallas in 84. Thats five teams over 6 yrs. Why don't the 80s teams get knocked for expansion? And basketball wasn't nearly as popular as it was in the 90s. Meaning kids (the athletes of tommorow) were playn baseball and football.

I mean look at baseball today. Hardly any african american kids choose to play baseball anymore. Why? Cuz it not popular. Who do they go out and try to mimic? And the reason is not because african americans aren't good enough to play baseball, its just that they'd rather play football and basketball. Not to mention how bad boxing has gotten. They've lost out in the athletic pool thanks to a gain in basketball. And there's flat out more humans as time goes by anyway. All these things make basketball just as good qualitywise as its ever been. If not better.

A lot of your points are absolutely false. First off the 4 ABA teams were not expansion teams in the sense of most expansion teams, these were teams coming from a league with a quality very similar to the NBA, and some of the best basketball players in the world were playing in the ABA. In the 1st year after the ABA merger 10 out of 24 NBA All-Stars had played in the ABA, and a number of players on that year's finalist teams had played in the ABA. Adding those guys only increased the strength of the NBA not dilute it.

Dallas joined the NBA in 1980 and after that there was 8 years without expansion. The 80's teams don't get knocked for expansion because there was virtually no expansion, players spent 3 or 4 years in college and were ready to contribute immediately coming into the league unlike some of the players in the mid to late 90's.

Also the players who came into the league in the 90's would have been fans in the 80's. I don't know what the state of baseball today would have to do with the NBA in the 80's and 90's. Nor does boxing of today have to do with basketball events of long ago.

[97 bulls]

A lot of your points are absolutely false. First off the 4 ABA teams were not expansion teams in the sense of most expansion teams, these were teams coming from a league with a quality very similar to the NBA, and some of the best basketball players in the world were playing in the ABA. In the 1st year after the ABA merger 10 out of 24 NBA All-Stars had played in the ABA, and a number of players on that year's finalist teams had played in the ABA. Adding those guys only increased the strength of the NBA not dilute it.

Dallas joined the NBA in 1980 and after that there was 8 years without expansion. The 80's teams don't get knocked for expansion because there was virtually no expansion, players spent 3 or 4 years in college and were ready to contribute immediately coming into the league unlike some of the players in the mid to late 90's.

Also the players who came into the league in the 90's would have been fans in the 80's. I don't know what the state of baseball today would have to do with the NBA in the 80's and 90's. Nor does boxing of today have to do with basketball events of long ago.
It seems to me that the reasoning behind knocking the bulls cuz of expansion is that the talent is more spread out. Thus the depth suffers. The aba was mostly made up of players that weren't good enough to play in the nba. They started outbidding the nba for the superstars.

I stand corrected as far as dallas. But bird and magic did win championships during or close to an expansion year. So I see no difference.

I used the baseball analogy to show how the popularity of a sport during one generation, will determine how many great athletes play it during the next generation. The 80s athletes were growing up in a time (the 70s) in which basketball was not very popular. Baseball and football and boxing were the dominant sports. I remember michael jordan the greatest basketball player ever saying that his first love athletically was baseball. He just wasn't good enough to play it at a high level. But thankfully due to magic, bird and jordan in the 80s, you had kids going out to the courts and doing no look passes and trying to drive to the basket with their tounge sticking out. And eventually, those kids becme the great players of the 90s and now.

Not to mention that as the exploits of jordan and the nba grew, kids overseas began to pick up the sport too. To go along with the fact that the poulation of humans gets bigger which means theres gonna be more great athletes being born. So how can the league be diluted if there was more than ample talent to go around.


Id also like to add that picking talent is a crap shoot. There's been plenty of late and 2nd round draft pick that have gone on to have great nba careers. And there's been plenty of busts that were drafted in the top 5. Picking talent is not an exact science.

I hope I've cleared up my point

[G-Funk]

It seems to me that the reasoning behind knocking the bulls cuz of expansion is that the talent is more spread out. Thus the depth suffers. The aba was mostly made up of players that weren't good enough to play in the nba. They started outbidding the nba for the superstars.

I stand corrected as far as dallas. But bird and magic did win championships during or close to an expansion year. So I see no difference.

I used the baseball analogy to show how the popularity of a sport during one generation, will determine how many great athletes play it during the next generation. The 80s athletes were growing up in a time (the 70s) in which basketball was not very popular. Baseball and football and boxing were the dominant sports. I remember michael jordan the greatest basketball player ever saying that his first love athletically was baseball. He just wasn't good enough to play it at a high level. But thankfully due to magic, bird and jordan in the 80s, you had kids going out to the courts and doing no look passes and trying to drive to the basket with their tounge sticking out. And eventually, those kids becme the great players of the 90s and now.

Not to mention that as the exploits of jordan and the nba grew, kids overseas began to pick up the sport too. To go along with the fact that the poulation of humans gets bigger which means theres gonna be more great athletes being born. So how can the league be diluted if there was more than ample talent to go around.





Jordan was hated in the 80's it wasn't until he started winning that ppl jumped on the wagon.

[G-Funk]

It's unbelievable how some ppl on here overate Jordan. In their eyes Kareem, Worthy & Magic are still not good enought to beat MJ. It's almost depressing.

[DatWasNashty]

Once again, you are basing your opinion on the Lakers of '91...a team which was a shell of what they had been in the 80's.

I could say that Jordan was an awful shooter in 01-02 too, when he shot .416. And no, I don't care about the ages of the players. Magic in '91 was no longer the explosive Magic. And I already have shown that Worthy on a severe down-slide, even before that series, and then an injury in that series pretty much finished his career.

I'm convinced you started watching basketball recently and are basing everything on two sources only (raw statistics and wikipedia). You fail to contextualize what you hear and see. It very much explains your unhealthy obsession with Wilt and the 60s players.

You're comparing a 38 year old Jordan to a 31 year old Magic. Definitely not a vaild comparison but it is expected from someone like you who tends to skew things a bit too much. Compare 1991 Magic to either 1993 or 1996 Jordan. Both versions of MJ are superior to 1991 Magic.

You also need to stop spreading the myth that Magic was way past his prime. This was the same guy who won an MVP the year prior and finished second in voting in 1991. Led the Lakers to the finals while upsetting the Blazers with his exceptional play. He had actually developed a long range jumper (pull up and catch and shoot from kickouts) and could still occasionally run the break. That 1991 Laker team operated primarily in halfcourt to utilize the skills of Worthy, Divac, Perkins and Magic in the low block. They'd run on steals and long rebounds but mainly operated in the halfcourt. How is Magic past his prime here? I fail to see unless you're implying that Magic saw a severe drop off from 1990 to 1991.

Funny how it's suggested that the Lakers lost concentration and missed Jabbar's leadership and presence in the 1990 playoffs where we upset them in the conference semis.

[97 bulls]

Jordan was hated in the 80's it wasn't until he started winning that ppl jumped on the wagon.
I don't remember jordan being hated in the 80s. I mean, why would he be hated? He wasn't winning at the time.

[97 bulls]

It's unbelievable how some ppl on here overate Jordan. In their eyes Kareem, Worthy & Magic are still not good enought to beat MJ. It's almost depressing.
Let me respon to this post by posing a question to you.... if jordan is overrated, what more could he have done in your opinion to get the GOAT ranking?

[G-Funk]

I don't remember jordan being hated in the 80s. I mean, why would he be hated? He wasn't winning at the time.


he went through that Kobesque era. They called him a ballhog, they said he would never win a tittle with a shoot first mentality, they said he was not a team player like Magic & Bird. Jordan said so himself.

[97 bulls]

I'm convinced you started watching basketball recently and are basing everything on two sources only (raw statistics and wikipedia). You fail to contextualize what you hear and see. It very much explains your unhealthy obsession with Wilt and the 60s players.

You're comparing a 38 year old Jordan to a 31 year old Magic. Definitely not a vaild comparison but it is expected from someone like you who tends to skew things a bit too much. Compare 1991 Magic to either 1993 or 1996 Jordan. Both versions of MJ are superior to 1991 Magic.

You also need to stop spreading the myth that Magic was way past his prime. This was the same guy who won an MVP the year prior and finished second in voting in 1991. Led the Lakers to the finals while upsetting the Blazers with his exceptional play. He had actually developed a long range jumper (pull up and catch and shoot from kickouts) and could still occasionally run the break. That 1991 Laker team operated primarily in halfcourt to utilize the skills of Worthy, Divac, Perkins and Magic in the low block. They'd run on steals and long rebounds but mainly operated in the halfcourt. How is Magic past his prime here? I fail to see unless you're implying that Magic saw a severe drop off from 1990 to 1991.

Funny how it's suggested that the Lakers lost concentration and missed Jabbar's leadership and presence in the 1990 playoffs where we upset them in the conference semis.great post. To add to the last part of your post, the 80s lakers are the only team that has fans that have an excuse for every time they loose.

[97 bulls]

[Q. UOTE=G-Funk]he went through that Kobesque era. They called him a ballhog, they said he would never win a tittle with a shoot first mentality, they said he was not a team player like Magic & Bird. Jordan said so himself.[/QUOTE]
I agree funk. But this doesn't mean he wasn't liked. He had a huge following

Are you gonna respond to my question?

[G-Funk]

Let me respon to this post by posing a question to you.... if jordan is overrated, what more could he have done in your opinion to get the GOAT ranking?


Jordan is the GOAT. just that some ppl make him out to be some sort of god, as if he never missed a shot, a buzzer beater, like he was the best defender of all time or the best offensive player. What really pisses me off is that they disrespect other Alltime greats as if he was way better then any other top 10 player. Yes he was better but not way better.

[97 bulls]

Jordan is the GOAT. just that some ppl make him out to be some sort of god, as if he never missed a shot, a buzzer beater, like he was the best defender of all time or the best offensive player. What really pisses me off is that they disrespect other Alltime greats as if he was way better then any other top 10 player. Yes he was better but not way better.
Ok, ill give you that. I'm also curious as to if you read my response to the talent being diluted and whether or not you agree?

[G-Funk]

Ok, ill give you that. I'm also curious as to if you read my response to the talent being diluted and whether or not you agree?


Didn't read it. what did u post?

[caliman]

Rodman could guard just about anyone. They could easily have thrown him on Magic. What exactly would Magic do that Rodman couldn't handle?


Come on now, lets keep this in perspective. The Bulls version of Rodman was nowhere near the versatile defender that the Pistons version of Rodman was. With the Bulls Rodman liked to stay close to the basket so he could be in good rebounding position. No way would he have wanted to be messing around with Magic on the perimeter.

[97 bulls]

Didn't read it. what did u post?
Post 107. And hey what part of LA do you live in? I'm in compton. Actually, I shouldn't have said that cuz the last time I said I lived in compton, I got a bad rep point.

[97 bulls]

Come on now, lets keep this in perspective. The Bulls version of Rodman was nowhere near the versatile defender that the Pistons version of Rodman was. With the Bulls Rodman liked to stay close to the basket so he could be in good rebounding position. No way would he have wanted to be messing around with Magic on the perimeter.
The bulls wouldn't need him to guard magic anyway. They had three great defensive guards in harper, jordan, and pippen. I really feel that the bulls defense was better than the laker offense. And the bulls offense was better than the lakers defense. And the bulls were easily the better rebounding team. Which would've negated the lakers vaunted fast break offense. Well, not negated.

[eliteballer]

:oldlol: Give it up 97. It's clear as day your just talking out of your a$$ in this thread. Trying to make the merger that ADDED a ton of talent to expansion(NYcelt absolutely obliterated your MADE UP points), calling then Bulls a better rebounding team:roll: That their defense was better than LA's offense(the best offense in the history of the league) and on it goes.

How can you possibly be convinced of these things when its so obvious you never even saw the 80's lakers play? Deeper and more talented all that needs to be said.

As for the rest, 91 Magic was 31 but he had been in the league since he was 20, making deep playoff runs every year and undergoing Riley's leg killing practices. He clearly was not close to the athlete he was just 3-4 years prior.

[97 bulls]

:oldlol: Give it up 97. It's clear as day your just talking out of your a$$ in this thread. Trying to make the merger that ADDED a ton of talent to expansion(NYcelt absolutely obliterated your MADE UP points), calling then Bulls a better rebounding team:roll: That their defense was better than LA's offense(the best offense in the history of the league) and on it goes.

How can you possibly be convinced of these things when its so obvious you never even saw the 80's lakers play? Deeper and more talented all that needs to be said.

As for the rest, 91 Magic was 31 but he had been in the league since he was 20, making deep playoff runs every year and undergoing Riley's leg killing practices. He clearly was not close to the athlete he was just 3-4 years prior.
All I can do is present the facts. If you and a few other people are too dumb to see whts right in front of your eyes then I can't help you. But let me expose another fact to you guys. The lakers got plenty of production out of their cnters in 91. In fact, id argue that they got MORE out of their centers and pfs in 91 than they did in 87. The only thing that they missed was coopers defense.

Like I said earlier, the lakers flat out got beat by a bulls team that was not their best. Unless you feel that cooper is gonna turn that series around that much. I for one knoe it wouldn't have happened.

And nycelts obviously agrees with me cuz after my response to his rebutal. He hasn't come back. Leave the dumbass diluted talent theory out of the convo and just keep it bulls vs lakers.

[seoerizer]

The Lakers probably were better as a team, but I wouldn't put anything past prime Jordan.
Exactly.

[eliteballer]

First of all, that 91 Lakers team wasn't even supposed to have MADE the Finals, they upset the Blazers to get there. Second, the fact you're somehow trying to equate them to the SHOWTIME Laker teams shows your ignorance, stupidity, or BOTH. The SHOWTIME core players left on that team were Magic, Worthy, Scott, AC Green, and Thompson. Thompson was 37 and was done with the NBA at the end of the season, a shell of himself. Worthy and Scott were injured for the series, not near their regular selves. All you have to do is see Worthy limping around.

So basically that team had two players from SHOWTIME, an older not as good Magic, and AC. You can ignore the FACTS, and sugarcoat your BS all you want, but it doesn't change the TRUTH.

There's a difference between you ignoring the facts and convincing people what would have happened, and what ACTUALLY would have happened. So quit your futile exercise.

[97 bulls]

First of all, that 91 Lakers team wasn't even supposed to have MADE the Finals, they upset the Blazers to get there. Second, the fact you're somehow trying to equate them to the SHOWTIME Laker teams shows your ignorance, stupidity, or BOTH. The SHOWTIME core players left on that team were Magic, Worthy, Scott, AC Green, and Thompson. Thompson was 37 and was done with the NBA at the end of the season, a shell of himself. Worthy and Scott were injured for the series, not near their regular selves. All you have to do is see Worthy limping around.

So basically that team had two players from SHOWTIME, an older not as good Magic, and AC. You can ignore the FACTS, and sugarcoat your BS all you want, but it doesn't change the TRUTH.

There's a difference between you ignoring the facts and convincing people what would have happened, and what ACTUALLY would have happened. So quit your futile exercise.
Lol your incredible. Did the lakers get as much production out of their bigs in 91 as in 87?

[jlauber]

Evidently the '91 Lakers were the same team as their '80, their '82, their '85, and their '87 teams...but the league just caught up to them.

Of course, if that were true, then the league caught up to the '95 Bulls. There can be no excuses...MJ was not "rusty" he was just much crappier. But, it wasn't just him, either. The league caught up to that team, which really means that the '91, '92, and '93 Bulls really weren't that good.

[1987_Lakers]

Lol your incredible. Did the lakers get as much production out of their bigs in 91 as in 87?

The Lakers were pretty much better at every position in '87 except for the PF spot.

Give me '87 Kareem & Thompson over '91 Divac anyday.

[jlauber]

The Lakers were pretty much better at every position in '87 except for the PF spot.

Give me '87 Kareem & Thompson over '91 Divac anyday.

And, give me '87 Magic, Scott, and Worthy over '91 Magic, Scott, and Worthy anyday, as well.

[1987_Lakers]

And, give me '87 Magic, Scott, and Worthy over '91 Magic, Scott, and Worthy anyday, as well.

Yes, and once you throw in the DPOY Michael Cooper for '87, it's not even close.

[jlauber]

Yes, and once you throw in the DPOY Michael Cooper for '87, it's not even close.

:cheers:

[Kobe 4 The Win]

And, give me '87 Magic, Scott, and Worthy over '91 Magic, Scott, and Worthy anyday, as well.

I don't even like the 87 Lakers as much as the 85 group. They would have shat on any Bulls team and don't give me no BS about Brian Williams, lol. Kareem would have eaten those ******* up.

Oh, and for anyone to liken the 1991 Lakers to any of the Showtime Lakers teams is nuts. If you don't know how nuts that is then you must be half a retard.

[jlauber]

I don't even like the 87 Lakers as much as the 85 group. They would have shat on any Bulls team and don't give me no BS about Brian Williams, lol. Kareem would have eaten those ******* up.

Oh, and for anyone to liken the 1991 Lakers to any of the Showtime Lakers teams is nuts. If you don't know how nuts that is then you must be half a retard.

I agree. To be honest, I am not sure that those great Laker teams would have beaten the great Bulls' teams, but my main point was that the '91 Lakers were nowhere near the peak Laker team's of the 80's.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I agree. To be honest, I am not sure that those great Laker teams would have beaten the great Bulls' teams, but my main point was that the '91 Lakers were nowhere near the peak Laker team's of the 80's.

I honestly believe that they would have. The so-called great Bulls teams were Jordan, Pippen, a couple of rebounders that could play defense (Rodman/Grant) and a couple of guys who could hit wide open shots when no one bothered to guard them. (Hodges, Paxson) They wouldn't have the depth and flexability of any of the Lakers best teams and they'd have no answer for Cap.

[nycelt84]

All I can do is present the facts. If you and a few other people are too dumb to see whts right in front of your eyes then I can't help you. But let me expose another fact to you guys. The lakers got plenty of production out of their cnters in 91. In fact, id argue that they got MORE out of their centers and pfs in 91 than they did in 87. The only thing that they missed was coopers defense.

Like I said earlier, the lakers flat out got beat by a bulls team that was not their best. Unless you feel that cooper is gonna turn that series around that much. I for one knoe it wouldn't have happened.

And nycelts obviously agrees with me cuz after my response to his rebutal. He hasn't come back. Leave the dumbass diluted talent theory out of the convo and just keep it bulls vs lakers.


I don't know about you but I actually go to work and do other things than hang on this board to reply to people who posted about something I posted. I agree with nothing you posted as your rebuttals made no sense. 1 expansionteam entering a league for 8 years does not compare to 4 in 2 years and then another 2 in 1 year added with the addition of several basketball players who were not ready to play in the pros. Your knowledge of the ABA is also lacking. By 1976 the ABA teams were the equal of teams in the NBA.

Your comment about basketball in the 1970's also showed a complete lack of understanding of the popularity of the game at the time. Just because the pros were in rough shape does not mean that there were not millions of people playing basketball. Even in the 70's far more kids were playing basketball than baseball. Basketball is a cheap and easy sport to play.

[97 bulls]

I don't know about you but I actually go to work and do other things than hang on this board to reply to people who posted about something I posted. I agree with nothing you posted as your rebuttals made no sense. 1 expansionteam entering a league for 8 years does not compare to 4 in 2 years and then another 2 in 1 year added with the addition of several basketball players who were not ready to play in the pros. Your knowledge of the ABA is also lacking. By 1976 the ABA teams were the equal of teams in the NBA.

Your comment about basketball in the 1970's also showed a complete lack of understanding of the popularity of the game at the time. Just because the pros were in rough shape does not mean that there were not millions of people playing basketball. Even in the 70's far more kids were playing basketball than baseball. Basketball is a cheap and easy sport to play.
Don't worry about what I do through the day. Just respond when you get a chance or if you choose to. As far as the 70s, basketball was not as big as it is now. Like you said the pros were fighting to stay afloat. It seems to me that your just saying things just to be sayn them. Especially if your gonna sit here and state that the nba was as popular as baseball otherwise known as americas pass time or football. In the 70s, basketball was the clear 4th most popular sport behind football, baseball and boxing. And it was dying a slow death. Hell the games weren't even shown live. I know you've heard the sayng that magic and bird saved basketball. Why was that said? And you trying to dispute that shows your lack of not only basketball but also 70s sports as a whole. And my reasoning is perfect for the assinine thought that the talent in the 90s was diluted or that the bench players weren't good enough to compete in any other era.

Ok how bout this. The fact is that the human population as a whole increases not decrease. Therefore it make sense that out of that increase in human population there also gonna be an increase in athletes. And if that's true, how can the talent be diluted?

[97 bulls]

Evidently the '91 Lakers were the same team as their '80, their '82, their '85, and their '87 teams...but the league just caught up to them.

Of course, if that were true, then the league caught up to the '95 Bulls. There can be no excuses...MJ was not "rusty" he was just much crappier. But, it wasn't just him, either. The league caught up to that team, which really means that the '91, '92, and '93 Bulls really weren't that good.
That makes far more sense than you saying that a 31 yr old magic whose 1 yr remove from the mvp and finished second that year and that 29 yr old james worthy was old and over the hill.

[Round Mound]

There is no way in hell the 90s bulls would beat the 80s Lakers, Celtics and the 1983 Sixers. Get Real. Those other teams also had a deep bench

[97 bulls]

I honestly believe that they would have. The so-called great Bulls teams were Jordan, Pippen, a couple of rebounders that could play defense (Rodman/Grant) and a couple of guys who could hit wide open shots when no one bothered to guard them. (Hodges, Paxson) They wouldn't have the depth and flexability of any of the Lakers best teams and they'd have no answer for Cap.
Sure they had depth and flexibility. Ill prove it. Jordan retires and is replaced by pete myers and the bulls still win 55 games. In 97 the bulls lost rodman, their starting center luc longley, and toni kukoc all for over 25 games and they still won 69 games. In 98, scottie pippen missed over 30 games. But the bulls still finished with a record of 62 wins. And were not talking about 3 or 4 games were talking over a quarter of the season. All ove r the course of 4 seasons. That my friend is depth. Let's also take a look at what chicago bulls players did without jordan. We alredy know about scottie. We also know about rodman. But steve kerr went on to be a key contributer on two spurs championships. Ron harper along with being a 20 ppg scorer in clevland, helped the LA lakers to 3 championships. Brian williams helped the denver nuggets become the 1st 8th seed to dethrone a 1st seed when they beat the sonics. Toni kuoc was regarded as the best player in europe before he came to chicago. Oh yeah, the bulls had depth.

What did the mighty lakers do without magic? We all know what kareem accomplished, but worthy was washed up and retired by 32. Thirty friggn two. Ac green did win another ring with the lakers. Byron scott was nothing more than a bench player. Mychal thompson a first round draft pick was a borderline bust. Or never lived up to his number 1 pick status. But you wanna talk depth. Come on now

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I'm not talking about flexibility during the regular season agaist the New Jersey Nets and the like. I'm talking about depth and flexibility when you are competing at the highest level in the NBA Finals against one of the best teams of all time like the Boston Celtics.

Brian Williams was a f**king scrub. And I'm pretty sure Mutombo was playing a lot of Center for the Nuggets that year. Career average of 11 ppg but only around 8 ppg that year.

Steve Kerr was a f**king scrub who basically took uncontested threes for much of his career. I'm happy that he was able to do his job and hit wide open totally uncontested shots occasionally. 6 ppg career lol

Toni Kukoc was a f**king scrub. I'm real proud of what he accomplished in europe but it doesn't mean anything in the NBA. In the NBA he had a forgettable and undistinguished career. Jordan's coat-tails 11.6 ppg

What did the mightly Lakers do without Magic? I think you are half a retard. The 1992 and 1993 Lakers were very far removed from the peak of the Showtime era. Even the 1991 team wasn't at that level whether you want to admit it or not. It has nothing to do with the 1985 Lakers that I mentioned.

Worthy was never "washed up". He had knee problems his entire career and anyone who knows anything about him knows that. I think that age 32 is a fine age to retire from the NBA. The Lakers were rebuilding with young talent and the weren't going to be contending for a title for a while. Not everyone plays until they are 40 plus like Kareem. There's no shame in Worhty's career. None. To imply that there is makes me think that you've gone full retard. Hall of Fame player. I looked for Brian Williams Steve Kerr and Toni Kukoc in the Hall of Fame but I must have missed them.

Mychal Thomson was a first round pick in 1978. He did not play on the 1985 Lakers. He was a valuable backup at Center and Forward on the 87 and 88 teams. 13.7 ppg which beats Kerr, Williams and Kukoc. lol

Byron Scott started for the 1985 Lakers and for most of his career. He might have been a bench player when he was into his 30's but his career points per game average is still better that Kukoc at 14 ppg.

AC Green was a solid rebound and defender. He did not play in the NBA in 1985 and again has no impact on the depth and flexibility of the 1985 team. His career points per game is only slightly less that the supposed offensive player Kukoc. 9.6 ppg

Dude, you are talking nonsense. Give it up. The Bulls were great in the 90's they never beat Bird's Celtics. They never beat the Showtime Lakers. If you think they could have that's your opinion. Good for you. I disagree.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

James Worthy was one hell of a player.

Michael Jordan is just too much for Magic and Kareem though. Bulls in 7.

[Blzrfn]

There is no way in hell the 90s bulls would beat the 80s Lakers, Celtics and the 1983 Sixers. Get Real. Those other teams also had a deep bench

Amen. The Bulls were overrated. They were lucky that Bias died, the Cavs traded Ron Harper, and a fully healthy Sabonis didn't come to Portland in the late-80's, among other things.

[SinJackal]

I disagree that Lakers would win. Magic wasn't at his best when Jabaar was at his best (as a Laker), and therefore the idea of Jabaar/Magic is more potent than the reality. Meanwhile, Jordan and Pippen were both at their best when they were in Chicago, as well as many of the roleplayers that were taking up residence around them.

The Bulls had more complete teams with more players in their primes imo. Which Lakers team are you using to measure exactly? Or are you trying to take mid-late 80's Magic and very early 80's Kareem and acting like that's how they were together the whole run? :confusedshrug:

'Cause I mean, if we're taking the best seasons of the best players of each of these decades they played for their respective teams, the Bulls would murder the Lakers unless Kareem could pull some 30/20s out of his ass to stop Jordan's well-known dominance over the Lakers on offense that Magic and the Lakers could never slow down.


You realize MJ's career record vs Magic and the Lakers is 10-6 right? (including Jordan's 4-1 in the finals vs Magic's Lakers) This is including the fact that Jordan had shitty, sub .500 teams for most of their battles while the Lakers had championship caliber teams. He was still winning.

[nycelt84]

What Bulls fails to realize and seems to difficult for him to comprehend is regardless of the popularity of the NBA basketball is and has been since the 70's a widely played sport. Far more people were playing basketball than were participating in boxing or playing baseball in the 70's. Unlike other sports basketball is a sport than can be played singularly and year round. Pro basketball was in trouble in the 70's not the sport of basketball. There was no massive increase in the number of people playing basketball in the 80s or 90s because of the popularity of pro basketball or a massive increase in the number of basketball courts and facilities. The high school and college game have been strong dating back to the 1940's.

And the comment about human population is ridiculous. You're talking about the span of a decade and acting like there's been or was some massive spike in the US birthrate and as if that could have a great impact on athletic performance.

[97 bulls]

I'm not talking about flexibility during the regular season agaist the New Jersey Nets and the like. I'm talking about depth and flexibility when you are competing at the highest level in the NBA Finals against one of the best teams of all time like the Boston Celtics.

Brian Williams was a f**king scrub. And I'm pretty sure Mutombo was playing a lot of Center for the Nuggets that year. Career average of 11 ppg but only around 8 ppg that year.

Steve Kerr was a f**king scrub who basically took uncontested threes for much of his career. I'm happy that he was able to do his job and hit wide open totally uncontested shots occasionally. 6 ppg career lol

Toni Kukoc was a f**king scrub. I'm real proud of what he accomplished in europe but it doesn't mean anything in the NBA. In the NBA he had a forgettable and undistinguished career. Jordan's coat-tails 11.6 ppg

What did the mightly Lakers do without Magic? I think you are half a retard. The 1992 and 1993 Lakers were very far removed from the peak of the Showtime era. Even the 1991 team wasn't at that level whether you want to admit it or not. It has nothing to do with the 1985 Lakers that I mentioned.

Worthy was never "washed up". He had knee problems his entire career and anyone who knows anything about him knows that. I think that age 32 is a fine age to retire from the NBA. The Lakers were rebuilding with young talent and the weren't going to be contending for a title for a while. Not everyone plays until they are 40 plus like Kareem. There's no shame in Worhty's career. None. To imply that there is makes me think that you've gone full retard. Hall of Fame player. I looked for Brian Williams Steve Kerr and Toni Kukoc in the Hall of Fame but I must have missed them.

Mychal Thomson was a first round pick in 1978. He did not play on the 1985 Lakers. He was a valuable backup at Center and Forward on the 87 and 88 teams. 13.7 ppg which beats Kerr, Williams and Kukoc. lol

Byron Scott started for the 1985 Lakers and for most of his career. He might have been a bench player when he was into his 30's but his career points per game average is still better that Kukoc at 14 ppg.

AC Green was a solid rebound and defender. He did not play in the NBA in 1985 and again has no impact on the depth and flexibility of the 1985 team. His career points per game is only slightly less that the supposed offensive player Kukoc. 9.6 ppg

Dude, you are talking nonsense. Give it up. The Bulls were great in the 90's they never beat Bird's Celtics. They never beat the Showtime Lakers. If you think they could have that's your opinion. Good for you. I disagree.
And the lakers and celts never beat the 90s bulls. And you can call them scrubs, but fact is that those bulls did more on their own than the lakers players. I don't see how they were scrubs. Not to mention that even though the bulls played in a slower era, thye put up stats similar to the lakers.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Because when the Lakers and Celtics were at their best the Bulls were a very poor team. When you say the Bulls players did more on their own, first of all no they didn't, and secondly what would it prove if they did? The Lakers guys who played on those showtime teams didn't do much on their "own" because by the time Magic retired they were all getting old. Mychal Thompson was a better player before he came to LA than any of the guys you mentioned except for perhaps a young Ron Harper. You also continue to ignore the fact that it was the 1985 Lakers that I mentioned. Not the 1991, 92, or 93 team that was way past their prime and missing the most important peices of the Championship teams.

The guys you mentioned with the exception of Harper were scrubs. The're production was very weak even though they were fortunate to play with guys like Jordan and Duncan and Mutumbo. Scrubs dude.

[MasterDurant24]

James Worthy was one hell of a player.

Michael Jordan is just too much for Magic and Kareem though. Bulls in 7.
Overrated!

Lakers in 6.

[97 bulls]

Because when the Lakers and Celtics were at their best the Bulls were a very poor team. When you say the Bulls players did more on their own, first of all no they didn't, and secondly what would it prove if they did? The Lakers guys who played on those showtime teams didn't do much on their "own" because by the time Magic retired they were all getting old. Mychal Thompson was a better player before he came to LA than any of the guys you mentioned except for perhaps a young Ron Harper. You also continue to ignore the fact that it was the 1985 Lakers that I mentioned. Not the 1991, 92, or 93 team that was way past their prime and missing the most important peices of the Championship teams.

The guys you mentioned with the exception of Harper were scrubs. The're production was very weak even though they were fortunate to play with guys like Jordan and Duncan and Mutumbo. Scrubs dude.
I'm not gonna get into a statistical argument with you over players in the 80s over the 90s. We all know that the 80s was a stat inflated era. Just admit it. And if you were to make their stats relative, the bulls bench produced more than the lakers bench. Not to mention that the bulls didn't Fast break like the lakers. Teams that run are always gonna score more than a team that scores in a halfcourt offense. And the fact is that the bulls be it specialist or whatever you want to call it were great not good great at what they were brought in to do. Its just unfortunate that williams only had 9 games to try to shake the rust off. But based on his career, I see no reason he doesn't avg 10 ppg and 7 rbds on 53% shooting in limited minutes if he wasn't rusty and found a niche in the bulls offense.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

You're reaching for it dude.

[97 bulls]

Its also funny how everyone acts like the lakers beat a bunch of all-time teams to get their five championships. They act like they beat a sixers team with moses malone. When the fact is that after dr j, the talent droped significantly. I see no difference between those sixers and the jazz with 2 hofers. Or the blazers in 92. They beat an injury plagued celtics team and were about to loose to the pistons in 88. I would've loved to see them play the 86 celtics, but they lost to. 40 and 42
Rockets team. In fact, the one time that they played an all-time great team was when they got swept by the sixers in 83.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

You are seriously out of your mind. I've had enough of your nonsense. Have fun in fantasy land.

[1987_Lakers]

Its also funny how everyone acts like the lakers beat a bunch of all-time teams to get their five championships. They act like they beat a sixers team with moses malone. When the fact is that after dr j, the talent droped significantly. I see no difference between those sixers and the jazz with 2 hofers. Or the blazers in 92. They beat an injury plagued celtics team and were about to loose to the pistons in 88. I would've loved to see them play the 86 celtics, but they lost to a 40 and 42 Rockets team. In fact, the one time that they played an all-time great team was when they got swept by the sixers in 83.

The '85 Celtics, '87 Celtics, & '88 Pistons were better than any team the Bulls faced in the Finals.

And the Rockets were not 40-42 in '86, that was '81.:facepalm

[chris2010]

Pippen in his prime would certainly limit alot of Magic's effectiveness. Jordan in his prime could take a few successful turns at guarding him.
Rodman would drastically limit Worthy. Worthy might average 10-15 a game but it would take alot of shots to get there.
Depending on the Kareem we are talking about. If it were the early 80s Kareem no one would be able to stop him. The only way to be able to keep the ball out his hands would 1)harrass Magic into enough turnovers to where he cant feed Kareem the ball 2) collapse onto kareem as quick as possible and strip the ball and hope he doesnt have enough time to pass it to a cutting worthy or a wide open cooper 3) play perfect 2-3 zone defense

On the lakers + side:
Magic= greatest PG to ever play. Pippen may limit his effectiveness but not through a 7 game series. Magic would figure out how to best help his team.
Kareem: again no one could stop him on the bulls. No one would be tall enough or really physical enough to bother him other than rodman

In the end, both teams were well coached and each one would have good matchups and bad matchups. My take: Bulls in 6 games w/ homecourt advantage or Bulls in 7 w/ the lakers having HCA