Prime Kobe vs Prime T-mac vs Prime LeBron vs Prime Wade

[Jacks3]

How would you rank them?

My list

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. T-Mac
4. Wade

[catch24]

LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Tmac

Wade and LeBron are still in their prime so it's subject to change, IMO.

[BDiesel324]

How would you rank them?

My list

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. T-Mac
4. Wade
lolwut? I'm sorry but 2008-2009 Dwyane Wade was better than any version or season that Tracy McGrady has ever had in his life.

[ashlar]

lolwut?

can't read?

[Jacks3]

lolwut?
:confusedshrug: Prime Mac was amazing.

[thejumpa]

1.T-Mac...6'8 with PG skills, super athletic, stupid deadly jumper
2.LeBron...PF listed as a SF who plays like a scoring PG
3.Kobe....no real physical gifts or advantages...just a lot of skill and focus
4.Wade....6'4 combo guard who attacks the rim 24/7

[Jacks3]

I'm sorry but 2008-2009 Dwyane Wade was better than any version or season that Tracy McGrady has ever had in his life.
03 T-Mac was better. More athletic, better mid-range shooter, better passer, better ball-handler, better post-up game, much better three-point shooter, and was every bit the passer/play-maker Wade was while doing a much better job of not turning the ball over. Wade was better defensively, but it's not enough to make up for Mac's advantage offensively.

[BDiesel324]

03 T-Mac was better. More athletic, better mid-range shooter, better passer, better ball-handler, better post-up game, much better three-point shooter, and was every bit the passer/play-maker Wade was while doing a much better job of not turning the ball over. Wade was better defensively, but it's not enough to make up for Mac's advantage offensively.
Tmac was a better passer? Or was every bit the passer/playmaker Wade was? :oldlol: They equally had garbage teams. Wade averaged 2 more apg than Mcgrady did. That doesn't sound very equal. As a matter of fact, that sounds like Wade is better than Mcgrady at that area.

Better mid-range shooter? Ok. :oldlol: I'm not going to disagree that Mcgrady wasn't a better post-up player or 3-point shooter than Wade. But Wade still produced as many points as Mcgrady and was a hella lot more efficient than Mcgrady ever was..

I love how you forgot how much more efficient Wade was than Mcgrady. 49% shooting shits on 45% shooting.

[TheLogo]

This thread has got to be a joke but I will play......

Kobe
Tmac
Lebron
Wade

Kobe in his prime was a freaking beast and you could look up my Kobe's greatest game threads. They are freaking superior than anything Lebron, Tmac and Wade has done.

Lebron puts up big numbers but they are nothing compared to Bryant's 81 or 60+ in 3 quarters versus Dallas or Tmac scoring X amount of points in X amount of second games.

Too bad you guys and gals are too young to watch those games....

[andgar923]

I didn't know that Wade and Bron had hit their prime :confusedshrug:

But just to play along... if we considered Wade and Bron already past their primes (or in their prime):

Tmac= the only one out of the 4 mentioned that can match Kobe skill vs skill, and even edge him slightly (by a hair) in a dept or two, but he's more athletic and taller.

Kobe= Neither Wade nor Bron can match Kobe's skill and will to win (if we consider them at their peaks)

Wade= I know the numbers state one thing, but I like Wade's game more. I know that Bron has a better long distance jumper, but I feel that he shoots it more than he should, and he settles for the same moves too often. Wade is the balance between all of the players I mentioned

Bron = great athleticism, great court vision, the most raw player out of those mentioned. But he still needs polish..... which is very very scary.

[chazzy]

I didn't know that Wade and Bron had hit their prime :confusedshrug:

Really?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Tmac was a better passer? Or was every bit the passer/playmaker Wade was? :oldlol: They equally had garbage teams. Wade averaged 2 more apg than Mcgrady did. That doesn't sound very equal. As a matter of fact, that sounds like Wade is better than Mcgrady at that area.

Better mid-range shooter? Ok. :oldlol: I'm not going to disagree that Mcgrady wasn't a better post-up player or 3-point shooter than Wade. But Wade still produced as many points as Mcgrady and was a hella lot more efficient than Mcgrady ever was..

I love how you forgot how much more efficient Wade was than Mcgrady. 49% shooting shits on 45% shooting.

I'm not going to argue who was better either way, but they didn't produce the same amount of ppg. 32>30. Oh, and he shot 46% in his peak season, yeah, I know that's being ****. :oldlol: But, McGrady made more than an extra 3 per game so that makes up for some of the disparity in FG%.

McGrady in that season was a better scorer, IMO, that's all I'll say. You could argue that T-Mac's 2003 season was the best scoring season by a perimeter player not named Jordan or Kobe.


I didn't know that Wade and Bron had hit their prime :confusedshrug:


Wade will be 29 next year, we've probably seen his peak even though he's still in his prime. Lebron is in his prime and has been for a few seasons, but I'm not sure if he's peaked yet because he'll only be 26 next year, though he has played 7 NBA seasons.

[Jacks3]

Tmac was a better passer? Or was every bit the passer/playmaker Wade was? :oldlol: They equally had garbage teams. Wade averaged 2 more apg than Mcgrady did. That doesn't sound very equal. As a matter of fact, that sounds like Wade is better than Mcgrady at that area.

He got more assists because he handles the ball more. That doesn't make him a better passer. Technically speaking Mac can make any pass Wade can make. His length allows him to see over the top of defenses better than Wade can, and his court vision/awareness is just as great. And he does a much better job taking care of the ball, which is a component of passing.


Better mid-range shooter? Ok. :oldlol:
It's true.


I'm not going to disagree that Mcgrady wasn't a better post-up player or 3-point shooter than Wade. But Wade still produced as many points as Mcgrady and was a hella lot more efficient than Mcgrady ever was..

I love how you forgot how much more efficient Wade was than Mcgrady. 49% shooting shits on 45% shooting.

T-Mac's TS%--56%
Wade's TS%--57%

And T-Mac did it on 2 more PPG.

32 PPG on 56%> 30 PPG on 57%

Not to mention T-Mac put up his numbers in a era where hand-checking was still allowed. In fact, if you look at the numbers the 99-04 era was the best in history in terms of defense.

[branslowski]

1. Kobe...
2.T-Mac...(Crazy how underrated he is being)
3. LeBron
4. Wade



I doubt anyone in NBA history will ever drop 35-5-5 again...IMO.

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Tmac

Wade and LeBron are still in their prime so it's subject to change, IMO.

This is how I have it as well. Prime T-Mac was a beast & a better shooter than Wade, but Wade is a better playmaker, attacks the rim better, & is a better defender which is why I give Wade the slight advantage.

[TheLogo]

Kobe would have monster seasons where the others never had any season like that before.

I would also like to add that I found a website that keeps a shot chart for stats. I will be using it this upcoming season to prove to many ISH memebers how deceiving FG% is.

Lebron has shot 60% inside the paint but a dismal 40% outside the paint where Kobe has shot 48% from 15 out and 34% from 3 point land, which drastically brings down his percentage.

There is a reason why when teams clog the lane Lebron isn't as effective as Bryant.

Shot charts are your best friend and please use him.

[BDiesel324]

He got more assists because he handles the ball more. That doesn't make him a better passer. Technically speaking Mac can make any pass Wade can make. His length allows him to see over the top of defenses better than Wade can, and his court vision/awareness is just as great. And he does a much better job taking care of the ball, which is a component of passing.


It's true.



T-Mac's TS%--56%
Wade's TS%--57%

And T-Mac did it on 2 more PPG.

32 PPG on 56%> 30 PPG on 57%

Not to mention T-Mac put up his numbers in a era where hand-checking was still allowed. In fact, if you look at the numbers the 99-04 era was the best in history in terms of defense.
TS%? Do you not understand how much that accounts Free throw shooting? There's a reason why David Robinson's TS% is probably higher than both Shaq and Hakeem.

I lol'd at the passing comment though. Not even going to bother, I'll let a Heat fan take care of you for that.

[Gabuyaux]

Tmac
Kobe
Lebron
Wade

[Jacks3]

TS%? Do you not understand how much that accounts Free throw shooting? There's a reason why David Robinson's TS% is probably higher than both Shaq and Hakeem.



Yeah... last I checked getting to the FT line and hitting them matters. It's very important. :facepalm

[ShaqAttack3234]

TS%? Do you not understand how much that accounts Free throw shooting? There's a reason why David Robinson's TS% is probably higher than both Shaq and Hakeem.

Actually, Shaq's TS% is higher than Robinson's and why shouldn't free throws count? They are a part of the game, granted a missed free throw isn't as bad as a missed field goal because you'll still have your defense set and avoid an easy transition opportunity for your opponent and TS% doesn't factor in that some players get considerably more and 1s than others, so it has it's flaws, but it's useful unlike most advanced stats because it factors in FT shooting and 3s.

[catch24]

This is how I have it as well. Prime T-Mac was a beast & a better shooter than Wade, but Wade is a better playmaker, attacks the rim better, & is a better defender which is why I give Wade the slight advantage.

Yeah, and while he was a better shooter, Wade is definitely more efficient (from the field, not the free throw line), while being equally potent from mid range. As you said, though, Wade's D pretty much separates the two for me. Great shot blocker, ball snatcher, and his perimeter defense is still second to none at his position. He's an all around better player, while T-Mac was more skilled scoring the ball, as is Kobe.

[catch24]

granted a missed free throw isn't as bad as a missed field goal because you'll still have your defense set and avoid an easy transition opportunity for your opponent

That and a single missed FT costs a team one point, while a single missed field goal costs 2-3 points... Just stating the obvious here, I know. :oldlol:

[dyna]

1) Lebron
2) T Mac
3) Kobe
4) Wade

[Willkill24]

Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Tmac

[Jacks3]

03 T-Mac was better. More athletic, better mid-range shooter, better passer, better ball-handler, better post-up game, much better three-point shooter, and was every bit the passer/play-maker Wade was while doing a much better job of not turning the ball over. Wade was better defensively, but it's not enough to make up for Mac's advantage offensively.
Oh, and Mac was the superior re-bounder and FT shooter...

[Bigsmoke]

ranking Prime Tmac over Lebron is flat out retarded.

Tmac only had ONE really amazing season and thats in 2003. What about the year after that? His prime was only one year long? Thats all people could bring up, Tmac in his prime was great because of that ONE season Lebron is one of the few players in history to average 30ppg/8/7 on a team that won 61 games while Tmac could score 32 on 45% shooting on a 42 game winning team that makes him better :rolleyes:

[catch24]

ranking Prime Tmac over Lebron is flat out retarded.

Tmac only had ONE really amazing season and thats in 2003. What about the year after that? His prime was only one year long? Thats all people could bring up, Tmac in his prime was great because of that ONE season Lebron is one of the few players in history to average 30ppg/8/7 on a team that won 61 games while Tmac could score 32 on 45% shooting on a 42 game winning team that makes him better :rolleyes:

How do your rankings look after LeBron?

[Jacks3]

Tmac only had ONE really amazing season and thats in 2003. What about the year after that? His prime was only one year long?
He was also phenomenal in 2001 or 2002...

[Kurosawa0]

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. T-Mac
4. Wade

[Bigsmoke]

He was also phenomenal in 2001 or 2002...
he was great... NOT phenomenal. Hell in 02, he wasnt even as good as Paul Pierce. He did nothing but lost to a Hornets team without their best scoring "Jamal Mashburn" the first round. Tmac in 2001 was NOWHERE as good as Lebron in any season after 2005.

[tpols]

lebron
kobe
wade
tmac

These are the true rankings of impact at their primes.

[Bigsmoke]

I doubt anyone in NBA history will ever drop 35-5-5 again...IMO.

nor put up those number while blowing a 3-1 advantage against a team without their best scorer :no:

Lebron last year to me was more amazing than Kobe shooting 30 shots a game just because Lebron so dominated at so many ways throughout the year.

[DatDudeD]

nor put up those number while blowing a 3-1 advantage against a team without their best scorer :no:

Lebron last year to me was more amazing than Kobe shooting 30 shots a game just because Lebron so dominated at so many ways throughout the year.

luckily we are not basing this on 1 series because lebron would probably be in 3rd place behind kobe and wade... he and t mac have no rings. Anyway i do agree that i would have lebron slightly ahead even though i dont think he is at his peak which is scary, i am not sure if we are talking athletic or skill prime but either kobe 02-03 number just as good as prime t-mac or 05-07 kobe who was a MONSTER !!!!!!. They all have a great case though so its tough.
My list
1.lebron edges out kobe
2.kobe
3.t mac
4.wade 08-09 wade was rediculous though

[Scribbles]

1. Kobe
2. Mac
3. Wade
4. Lebron

[Simple Jack]

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3a. Wade
3b. T-Mac


Wade edges him out very slightly for me but I definitely think it's arguable.

LeBron's play the past 2 years definitely warrants a #1 spot; it was surprising when he DIDN'T have a monster game. He was/is a beast on a nightly basis.

Kobe in 06 and 07 was unbelievable as well.

When you find yourself almost laughing at what a player is doing on a nightly basis (Kobe scoring 50+ like nothing, or LeBron's all-around domination) you know it's something special.

[EarlTheGoat]

At their prime?

1. T-Mac
2. Lebron
3. Kobe
4. Wade



If we are going to define prime by one season or two, then id say Tracy Mcgrady has had the most impressive prime of this 4 players, its very close, but 2002-2003 T-Mac has to be one of the best seasons for a perimeter player in the history of the game. The guy was putting ridiculous and dominant performances, and his stats just show this. When you score 32 ppg, grab 6.5 rpg and dish 5.5 apg on 45/38/79 % shooting you know you are in front of something special. He was scoring in all kinds of way and he was a slightly better rebounder than Kobe in his best individual season (05-06) and a better playmaker (in this case stats arent telling the whole story). Playing in a team with total scrubs, at least Kobe had Odom or Smush Parker, the mighty Lebron at least had an all-around nice team with Mo Williams and cia..., and Wade at his prime had Shaq, better than the garbage of teammates Mcgrady had that year in Orlando.


Second would come Lebron James due to being a triple-double danger, not only scoring and rebounding, but also being the best play-maker and assister of this 4 players in their primes and being an incredible defender too. He hasnt proved all of this in the last playoffs (he was horrible) but in 08-09 and 09-10 regular season he has been at absolute beast, and heck, even in the 08-09 playoffs he was putting up ridiculous numbers, 35.3 ppg, 9.1 rpg and 7.3 apg on 51/33/74 is god-like, few players in NBA History have put up those numbers in a playoff run.


Kobe would come third, although I have some trouble defining Kobe`s prime, since we have seen an evolution in the player. From 05 to 07 he was that unstoppable scorer who was putting up amazing perfomances on his own, close to the very best of Michael Jordan we have seen, its a shame his team was not in the condition to win something. Then we saw the more efficient, better leader/better decision taker Kobe from 08 to the present day. I honestly have enjoyed more the earlier Kobe Bryant, he was more explosive and fun to watch, but you can make an argument to say the "more intelligent" version of Kobe is the best.


Fourth has to be Wade, but like I said before, its very close, it was actually hard to rank this. He was probably the most efficient player of this 4 in his prime, but was somehow worse in the rebounding thing and a bit of worse scorer (although more efficient one). Unlike Kobe or T-Mac, my man Wade couldnt/cant score from any position in any form, he is not that versatile as an offensive player. He still hasnt developed a nice post-game like T-Mac or Kobe at their primes, and is a much worse 3pt shooter. But anyway, an astonishing player probably still in his prime, like Lebron.

[Simple Jack]

At their prime?

1. T-Mac
2. Lebron
3. Kobe
4. Wade



If we are going to define prime by one season or two, then id say Tracy Mcgrady has had the most impressive prime of this 4 players, its very close, but 2002-2003 T-Mac has to be one of the best seasons for a perimeter player in the history of the game. The guy was putting ridiculous and dominant performances, and his stats just show this. When you score 32 ppg, grab 6.5 rpg and dish 5.5 apg on 45/38/79 % shooting you know you are in front of something special. He was scoring in all kinds of way and he was a slightly better rebounder than Kobe in his best individual season (05-06) and a better playmaker (in this case stats arent telling the whole story). Playing in a team with total scrubs, at least Kobe had Odom or Smush Parker, the mighty Lebron at least had an all-around nice team with Mo Williams and cia..., and Wade at his prime had Shaq, better than the garbage of teammates Mcgrady had that year in Orlando.


Second would come Lebron James due to being a triple-double danger, not only scoring and rebounding, but also being the best play-maker and assister of this 4 players in their primes and being an incredible defender too. He hasnt proved all of this in the last playoffs (he was horrible) but in 08-09 and 09-10 regular season he has been at absolute beast, and heck, even in the 08-09 playoffs he was putting up ridiculous numbers, 35.3 ppg, 9.1 rpg and 7.3 apg on 51/33/74 is god-like, few players in NBA History have put up those numbers in a playoff run.


Kobe would come third, although I have some trouble defining Kobe`s prime, since we have seen an evolution in the player. From 05 to 07 he was that unstoppable scorer who was putting up amazing perfomances on his own, close to the very best of Michael Jordan we have seen, its a shame his team was not in the condition to win something. Then we saw the more efficient, better leader/better decision taker Kobe from 08 to the present day. I honestly have enjoyed more the earlier Kobe Bryant, he was more explosive and fun to watch, but you can make an argument to say the "more intelligent" version of Kobe is the best.


Fourth has to be Wade, but like I said before, its very close, it was actually hard to rank this. He was probably the most efficient player of this 4 in his prime, but was somehow worse in the rebounding thing and a bit of worse scorer (although more efficient one). Unlike Kobe or T-Mac, my man Wade couldnt/cant score from any position in any form, he is not that versatile as an offensive player. He still hasnt developed a nice post-game like T-Mac or Kobe at their primes, and is a much worse 3pt shooter. But anyway, an astonishing player probably still in his prime, like Lebron.


What makes prime T-Mac better than LeBron other than being a higher volume scorer?

[EarlTheGoat]

What makes prime T-Mac better than LeBron other than being a higher volume scorer?


1. Being a more complete/versatile offensive player, therefor, making him more difficult to guard. Lebron struggles when a team with great defense (like the Celtics) limits his offensive options. He hasnt developed a decent post game or mid-range game yet, and probably will never do. T-Mac on the other hand could do EVERYTHING, and when I say that I mean it. Could shoot the 3pt, could shoot the mid-range, could drive like the best Wade or Lebron, could post up pretty well...and could also do the playmaking and get a solid number of rebounds.


2. Playing with the worst team of all this 4 players had at their primes, and thats really not debatable. The scrubs T-Mac had around him were worse than this year New Jersey Nets to make an example.

[Papaya Petee]

1.) LeBron- 30\9\7 50%
2.) Wade- 30\8\5\2\1 49%
3.) Kobe- 35\5\4 45%
4.) McGrady- 32\7\6\ 46%

[Simple Jack]

1. Being a more complete/versatile offensive player, therefor, making him more difficult to guard. Lebron struggles when a team with great defense (like the Celtics) limits his offensive options. He hasnt developed a decent post game or mid-range game yet, and probably will never do. T-Mac on the other hand could do EVERYTHING, and when I say that I mean it. Could shoot the 3pt, could shoot the mid-range, could drive like the best Wade or Lebron, could post up pretty well...and could also do the playmaking and get a solid number of rebounds.


2. Playing with the worst team of all this 4 players had at their primes, and thats really not debatable. The scrubs T-Mac had around him were worse than this year New Jersey Nets to make an example.

Playing with the worst team doesn't make him the better player.

As for having a more complete offensive game; so does Mello. It doesn't mean he's as efficient or even as good.

[White Chocolate]

-LeBron
-Kobe
-McGrady
-Wade


Going by simply primes. LeBron and Wade are still in their primes, albeit the end of it.


Going by peaks:


-LeBron
-McGrady
-Kobe
-Wade


Anyone that puts McGrady at the bottom obviously didn't watch him play circa 2002-2003. Guy had a case for best player in the league.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'm a big T-Mac fan, but he was NOT better than Lebron or even as good of an overall player as Lebron has been the past 2 years. Picture T-Mac leading those teams to 60+ wins, I like T-Mac better, but this is pretty obvious if you're being objective.

[OnceInADECADE]

Has Lebron hit his prime yet?
1.Lebron James 2009-2010
2.Dwayne Wade 2008-2009
3.Kobe Bryant 2005-2006
4.Tracy Mcgrady 2002-2003

[All Net]

All this is hard to compare as Lebron and Kobe aren't done yet.

[OnceInADECADE]

[QUOTE=OnceInADECADE]Has Lebron hit his prime yet?
All this is hard to compare as Lebron and Kobe aren't done yet.
and Wade rite

[All Net]

Yeah Wade too, all 3 have plenty left to add to their prime years.

Kobe may well be 32 but his game is built to add to his legacy and overall numbers even in his mid 30's.

[AirJordan&Magic]

In my opinion, you could make a case for either prime Kobe, prime T.Mac, or LeBron for number 1.

It's unbelievable how underrated T.Mac has become over the years.

[Duncan21formvp]

In my opinion, you could make a case for either prime Kobe, prime T.Mac, or LeBron for number 1.

It's unbelievable how underrated T.Mac has become over the years.

And how not Wade then?