Players better than Dwight Howard

[Horde of Temujin]

Yesterday i made the apparantly absurd comment that the following players are better than Dwight Howard, some Isher's (well almost all of them) were a bit dismayed and shocked at my list. I for one just dont see it, Dwight is a great defensive force/rebounder but the man is severely limited on offense, he cant create his own shot no moves, makes many mental mistakes, but even against quality big man he can be beat man to man.

I was told that i am literally the only person who thinks like this and that i should commit suicide. So i was hoping for some input on this because i doubt im the only who feels this way.
I dont know, im not some irrational hater but I just dont see it with him.

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Al Jefferson
Deron Williams
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Manu Ginobili
Steve Nash
Brandon Roy
Carmelo Anthony


Updated to the list:

Marc Gasol
Demarcus Cousins
Zach Randolph
Stephen Curry
Derrick Rose
Blake Griffin
James Harden
Tony Parker
Russel Westbrook
Tyson Chandler
Kevin Love
Joachim Noah

[PHILA]

:facepalm

[treeztuhn]

chris paul will outrebound dwigt for sure...

[Horde of Temujin]

chris paul will outrebound dwigt for sure...

ok.....

[iamgine]

Better skill wise? Tons

Better impact wise? Very few.

[olddangerfield]

Yesterday i made the apparantly absurd comment that the following players are better than Dwight Howard, some Isher's (well almost all of them) were a bit dismayed and shocked at my list. I for one just dont see it, Dwight is a great defensive force/rebounder but the man is severely limited on offense, he cant create his own shot no moves, makes many mental mistakes, but even against quality big man he can be beat man to man.

I was told that i am literally the only person who thinks like this and that i should commit suicide. So i was hoping for some input on this because i doubt im the only who feels this way.
I dont know, im not some irrational hater but I just dont see it with him.

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul

Carmelo Anthony

fixed

[treeztuhn]

ok.....
but why compare dwight to other players with other position???

[Nelson14]

Yesterday i made the apparantly absurd comment that the following players are better than Dwight Howard, some Isher's (well almost all of them) were a bit dismayed and shocked at my list. I for one just dont see it, Dwight is a great defensive force/rebounder but the man is severely limited on offense, he cant create his own shot no moves, makes many mental mistakes, but even against quality big man he can be beat man to man.

I was told that i am literally the only person who thinks like this and that i should commit suicide. So i was hoping for some input on this because i doubt im the only who feels this way.
I dont know, im not some irrational hater but I just dont see it with him.

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Al Jefferson
Deron Williams
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Manu Ginobili
Steve Nash
Brandon Roy
Carmelo Anthony


Dwight Howard is a franchise player, and the best center in the league. He is a super star and players like kobe, wade, lebron and maybe durant and dirk are at his level. You cannot build a team around, roy, melo, nash, manu, pau, deron, al, and crhis and succeed like you can with dwight. He is your defensive anchor, and rebounding monster, as soon as he steps on the floor other teams completely change their offense. Now allot of those guys are much better scorers than dwight, and pau and al both have much better post moves but overall i put dwight ahead of them

[Horde of Temujin]

Dwight Howard is a franchise player, and the best center in the league. He is a super star and players like kobe, wade, lebron and maybe durant and dirk are at his level. You cannot build a team around, roy, melo, nash, manu, pau, deron, al, and crhis and succeed like you can with dwight. He is your defensive anchor, and rebounding monster, as soon as he steps on the floor other teams completely change their offense. Now allot of those guys are much better scorers than dwight, and pau and al both have much better post moves but overall i put dwight ahead of them

Good point, thanks for the input

[Yung D-Will]

Yesterday i made the apparantly absurd comment that the following players are better than Dwight Howard, some Isher's (well almost all of them) were a bit dismayed and shocked at my list. I for one just dont see it, Dwight is a great defensive force/rebounder but the man is severely limited on offense, he cant create his own shot no moves, makes many mental mistakes, but even against quality big man he can be beat man to man.

I was told that i am literally the only person who thinks like this and that i should commit suicide. So i was hoping for some input on this because i doubt im the only who feels this way.
I dont know, im not some irrational hater but I just dont see it with him.

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Al Jefferson
Deron Williams
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Manu Ginobili
Steve Nash
Brandon Roy
Carmelo Anthony

As a Jazz fan let me save you some time Deron Williams isn't better then Dwight Howard.

And Al Jefferson isn't better then Dwight ( Until next season hopefully)

:pimp:

[Horde of Temujin]

As a Jazz fan let me save you some time Deron Williams isn't better then Dwight Howard.

And Al Jefferson isn't better then Dwight ( Until next season hopefully)

:pimp:


D. Will's the man and Its a shame Al got injured he was on a tear and improving so much, as horrible a GM Mchale was i feel with his tutelage Jefferson was getting a lot better. We'll see if Hakeem has a better impact than Ewing. THe Jazz are definitely looking good for next year, i feel this is their best team since Stockton/Malone.

[Yung D-Will]

D. Will's the man and Its a shame Al got injured he was on a tear and improving so much, as horrible a GM Mchale was i feel with his tutelage Jefferson was getting a lot better. We'll see if Hakeem has a better impact than Ewing. THe Jazz are definitely looking good for next year, i feel this is their best team since Stockton/Malone.

Actually AL Jefferson's production increased every month last season by March he was back to averaging 19-10.

He said he was only about 85% at the end of the season and he's back to 100% now he said.

But yea.

That's why I'm glad Utah didn't actually draft Jefferson. He was a natural post scorer with a lot of moves in his arsenal on Boston. But he became a much better player since He would seek out Mchale after nearly every game to learn something new from him which made him into the post player he is today.


I could write a book about everything I hate that Deron does in games.

Glad to see someone else who realizes how good Al Jefferson is as a player.

[Andrei89]

Om not fking RG again lol!

[j3lademaster]

Dwight took an equal supporting cast(if not equal then barely better) Bosh had last year to the '09 finals... that's their difference in impact put into perspective.

[Da KO King]

Yesterday i made the apparantly absurd comment that the following players are better than Dwight Howard........

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Al Jefferson
Deron Williams
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Manu Ginobili
Steve Nash
Brandon Roy
Carmelo Anthony
If you are talking in terms of skill and/or hoops IQ only then sure. If you mean productivity and impact on the floor then you're being ridiculous.

[j3lademaster]

If you are talking in terms of skill and/or hoops IQ only then sure. If you mean productivity and impact on the floor then you're being ridiculous.

If he meant strictly skill, then Dwight wouldn't even be top 100 right now.

[the_wise_one]

You forgot Yao Ming dude. He's better than Dwight Howard.

[indiefan24]

Yesterday i made the apparantly absurd comment that the following players are better than Dwight Howard, some Isher's (well almost all of them) were a bit dismayed and shocked at my list. I for one just dont see it, Dwight is a great defensive force/rebounder but the man is severely limited on offense, he cant create his own shot no moves, makes many mental mistakes, but even against quality big man he can be beat man to man.

I was told that i am literally the only person who thinks like this and that i should commit suicide. So i was hoping for some input on this because i doubt im the only who feels this way.
I dont know, im not some irrational hater but I just dont see it with him.

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Al Jefferson
Deron Williams
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Manu Ginobili
Steve Nash
Brandon Roy
Carmelo Anthony

greg oden

[d.bball.guy]

You forgot Yao Ming dude. He's better than Dwight Howard.
:roll: I remembered that guy in another thread named ZaoMing!

[Horde of Temujin]

:roll: I remembered that guy in another thread named ZaoMing!


Nah, i wont go that far

[Go Getter]

Better skill wise? Tons

Better impact wise? Very few.
/end thread

[FKAri]

You forgot Yao Ming dude. He's better than Dwight Howard.

Ya people have forgotten about Yao. A healthy Yao > Dwight.

[Bigsmoke]

Yesterday i made the apparantly absurd comment that the following players are better than Dwight Howard, some Isher's (well almost all of them) were a bit dismayed and shocked at my list. I for one just dont see it, Dwight is a great defensive force/rebounder but the man is severely limited on offense, he cant create his own shot no moves, makes many mental mistakes, but even against quality big man he can be beat man to man.

I was told that i am literally the only person who thinks like this and that i should commit suicide. So i was hoping for some input on this because i doubt im the only who feels this way.
I dont know, im not some irrational hater but I just dont see it with him.


Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Al Jefferson
Deron Williams
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Manu Ginobili
Steve Nash
Brandon Roy
Carmelo Anthony

LMAO @ Manu Ginobili being better than Dwight.

[Mamba]

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Al Jefferson
Deron Williams
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Manu Ginobili
Steve Nash
Brandon Roy
Carmelo Anthony

Bolded are definite No's.
Italic are players on par, just worse or just better then dwight.

everyone else is just purely better

[ShaqAttack3234]

There are 3 players better than Dwight Howard and their names are Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade. You can throw Chris Paul in their when he's healthy too, but that's it.

[SCdac]

If we're picking for just this upcoming season, or just a series, players like Pau Gasol, Dirk, and Tim Duncan aren't miles behind Howard and are probably more exerienced/more suited to have the ball in their hands alot. If Bogut continues to improve, it wouldn't all-out surprise me if he approaches Dwight's current level (18 PPG) at some point. He was playing like an AS last season before his injury (alongside a rookie Jennings, Salmons, Ilyasova, etc) playing defense from the center position second to only Howard probably, was on pace to block 200+ shots like Howard, and also like Howard almost singlehandedly made that team one of the best defensively. Bogut doesn't possess Howard's athleticism, though neither did prime Duncan, but he is a great passing big man and has good hands. Also, IF Greg Oden could ever get it together, his offensive/defensive skills combined could potentially put him on an elite level (imo). If it comes to the future, seasons and seasons ahead, Dwight is one of the best franchise players in the L easily. No doubt. Shaqattack has provided some good comparisons to Zo in the past, and it is pretty accurate (though Zo was better), but even Zo wasn't an unparalleled, automatic championship, kind of big man.

[Papaya Petee]

Players better then Dwight

Wade
Durant
LeBron
Kobe
Carmelo

On the same level

Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Dirk

[ShaqAttack3234]

If we're picking for just this upcoming season, or just a series, players like Pau Gasol, Dirk, and Tim Duncan aren't miles behind Howard and are probably more exerienced/more suited to have the ball in their hands alot. If Bogut continues to improve, it wouldn't all-out surprise me if he approaches Dwight's current level (18 PPG) at some point. He was playing like an AS last season before his injury (alongside a rookie Jennings, Salmons, Ilyasova, etc) playing defense from the center position second to only Howard probably, was on pace to block 200+ shots like Howard, and also like Howard almost singlehandedly made that team one of the best defensively. Bogut doesn't possess Howard's athleticism, though neither did prime Duncan, but he is a great passing big man and has good hands. Also, IF Greg Oden could ever get it together, his offensive/defensive skills combined could potentially put him on an elite level (imo). If it comes to the future, seasons and seasons ahead, Dwight is one of the best franchise players in the L easily. No doubt. Shaqattack has provided some good comparisons to Zo in the past, and it is pretty accurate (though Zo was better), but even Zo wasn't an unparalleled, automatic championship, kind of big man.

I'm not convinced 18 ppg is a sign of things to come, particularly after two 21 ppg seasons in '08 and '09, a 20 ppg playoff run in '09 and the last 2 series he played. He was in constant foul trouble vs Charlotte and they did sweep them, but after that he put up 21 ppg on 84% shooting vs Atlanta and 22 ppg on 57% shooting vs Boston.

But two things that disappointed me last year were that Howard's offensive rebounding numbers dropped which created fewer scoring opportunities and I don't think he used the skills he does have as well as he could have. And what I mean by that is in 2009 he faced up more and was either getting to the foul line or hitting the running hook with either hand with decent regularity. Last season, he tried backing down players more which really isn't his strength unless he's playing against a guy like Horford.

He has worked with Olajuwon and Hakeem told him not to be afraid to use all of his skills which could help. If he shoots that bank shot consistently, even if he only makes them at an ok percentage, it will make the defense think a little more and open up his face up game so much for either the running hook, or a drive straight to the basket.

But regarding Duncan and Gasol vs Howard. Well, the fact that Duncan can't play big minutes anymore puts Howard clearly ahead, IMO. If I need a basket down the stretch, I'm still going to Duncan, but Duncan's defense has also slipped. A few years ago, I would've taken Duncan over Dwight defensively, but not anymore. For a series, Gasol can make an impact as big, but I don't think many would choose Gasol over Dwight if they were building a franchise. I think Howard is more of a franchise player. But you could argue that Gasol had a pretty comparable season.

Bogut is still a step down, though I'm hoping he continues to improve and Bogut/Jennings is one of the young duos that excites me the most.

Oden is the one guy who I really think does have the potential to have the impact Howard does. I think he could be a comparable rebounder and an even better defender and offensively, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to produce at a similar rate if he can stay healthy and stay on the floor for 35 or so minutes, however, I'm not holding my breath on that happening.

Actually, Oden is probably my favorite current player.

[Kobe8]

@ TS/OP - Nigguh you ****in stupid/dumb/retarded/mental retarded.. LOLLL

OMG , where do I start?

You cant compare all them cuz they all play different position's and If you wanna compare Dwight and Current Tim Duncan , Dwight will prolly beat him but PRIME Duncan Will CRUSH DWIGHT "EISEN HOWER'D"

Ya Feel Me?

Dwight is THE BEST Current Center for now ; This ERA.

Man , you know you need to get your shit straight,.

[zORi]

I tried to tell you, Horde of Temujin. Maybe you should stick to football, or worry about your "Interim Team" OKC.

You really think all of those players are capable of leading a team to the Finals? Really?

[All Net]

And people ask why people call Manu overrated :rolleyes:

[Horde of Temujin]

I tried to tell you, Horde of Temujin. Maybe you should stick to football, or worry about your "Interim Team" OKC.

You really think all of those players are capable of leading a team to the Finals? Really?


:lol Yep all of those players could lead a team to the finals especially in '09 with a weak Boston team and a fundamentally flawed Cleveland team.

[Horde of Temujin]

I'm not convinced 18 ppg is a sign of things to come, particularly after two 21 ppg seasons in '08 and '09, a 20 ppg playoff run in '09 and the last 2 series he played. He was in constant foul trouble vs Charlotte and they did sweep them, but after that he put up 21 ppg on 84% shooting vs Atlanta and 22 ppg on 57% shooting vs Boston.

But two things that disappointed me last year were that Howard's offensive rebounding numbers dropped which created fewer scoring opportunities and I don't think he used the skills he does have as well as he could have. And what I mean by that is in 2009 he faced up more and was either getting to the foul line or hitting the running hook with either hand with decent regularity. Last season, he tried backing down players more which really isn't his strength unless he's playing against a guy like Horford.

He has worked with Olajuwon and Hakeem told him not to be afraid to use all of his skills which could help. If he shoots that bank shot consistently, even if he only makes them at an ok percentage, it will make the defense think a little more and open up his face up game so much for either the running hook, or a drive straight to the basket.

But regarding Duncan and Gasol vs Howard. Well, the fact that Duncan can't play big minutes anymore puts Howard clearly ahead, IMO. If I need a basket down the stretch, I'm still going to Duncan, but Duncan's defense has also slipped. A few years ago, I would've taken Duncan over Dwight defensively, but not anymore. For a series, Gasol can make an impact as big, but I don't think many would choose Gasol over Dwight if they were building a franchise. I think Howard is more of a franchise player. But you could argue that Gasol had a pretty comparable season.

Bogut is still a step down, though I'm hoping he continues to improve and Bogut/Jennings is one of the young duos that excites me the most.

Oden is the one guy who I really think does have the potential to have the impact Howard does. I think he could be a comparable rebounder and an even better defender and offensively, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to produce at a similar rate if he can stay healthy and stay on the floor for 35 or so minutes, however, I'm not holding my breath on that happening.

Actually, Oden is probably my favorite current player.

Good point on Bogut, he is up and coming hopefully he can recover. Oden i'm a lil more skeptical about i dont think he'll ever be able to escape the injury bug a la Bill Walton.

[zORi]

:lol Yep all of those players could lead a team to the finals especially in '09 with a weak Boston team and a fundamentally flawed Cleveland team.

:roll: :roll: :applause:

Keep it up, man! That "weak" Boston team was great and extremely deep, even without KG. They were 15-7 without him and won 8 of their last 9 as they fully adjusted to him missing.

And that "fundamentally flawed" Cleveland team had 2 sweeps. No one was saying they were "fundamentally flawed" when they were 8-0 in the playoffs.

I think it's clear that you are just a Dwight hater. I would love to see Ginobli or Gasol lead a team to the Finals.

[OnceInADECADE]

Yesterday i made the apparantly absurd comment that the following players are better than Dwight Howard, some Isher's (well almost all of them) were a bit dismayed and shocked at my list. I for one just dont see it, Dwight is a great defensive force/rebounder but the man is severely limited on offense, he cant create his own shot no moves, makes many mental mistakes, but even against quality big man he can be beat man to man.

I was told that i am literally the only person who thinks like this and that i should commit suicide. So i was hoping for some input on this because i doubt im the only who feels this way.
I dont know, im not some irrational hater but I just dont see it with him.

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Al Jefferson
Deron Williams
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Manu Ginobili
Steve Nash
Brandon Roy
Carmelo Anthony

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6500000/LOLWUT-random-6599568-378-413.jpg

[Horde of Temujin]

:roll: :roll: :applause:

Keep it up, man! That "weak" Boston team was great and extremely deep, even without KG. They were 15-7 without him and won 8 of their last 9 as they fully adjusted to him missing.

And that "fundamentally flawed" Cleveland team had 2 sweeps. No one was saying they were "fundamentally flawed" when they were 8-0 in the playoffs.

I think it's clear that you are just a Dwight hater. I would love to see Ginobli or Gasol lead a team to the Finals.


Cleveland was a fundamentally flawed team, no true point and a bunch of semi has beens thrown together in hope of achieving a chip and a horrible coach.

Gasol could easily lead a team to the finals, as can Ginobili hes a lil older now but the man has been an instrumental, more than instrumental- integral part of a perennial contender for years and dont forget his accolades on the international stage.

Not a hater, you are my friend, youre the one resorting to personal attacks. Buts its ok its the internet i dont mind disagreeing with ya:cheers:

[Horde of Temujin]

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6500000/LOLWUT-random-6599568-378-413.jpg

:oldlol: look at how big his lower lip is and the top is nonexistent, weird.

ok Once, what if i were to add in Beasley?

[zORi]

Cleveland was a fundamentally flawed team, no true point and a bunch of semi has beens thrown together in hope of achieving a chip and a horrible coach.

Gasol could easily lead a team to the finals, as can Ginobili hes a lil older now but the man has been an instrumental, more than instrumental- integral part of a perennial contender for years and dont forget his accolades on the international stage.

Not a hater, you are my friend, youre the one resorting to personal attacks. Buts its ok its the internet i dont mind disagreeing with ya:cheers:

I agree with you on the personal attacks, that's unnecessary and I apologize.

But there is no way Gasol nor Ginobili can lead a team to a chip.

Cleveland actually does have a true point guard, but he isn't (wasn't) being utilized 100% because Lebron was controlling the ball most of the time. They aren't the first team to do this, the Lakers do the same thing to an extent, and they are champions.

[OnceInADECADE]

:oldlol: look at how big his lower lip is and the top is nonexistent, weird.

ok Once, what if i were to add in Beasley?

still i have Dwight ranked 2nd in the league

[Horde of Temujin]

What the hell.. When it rains, it pours.

The list needs to be updated.

Some other names to add:

Marc Gasol
Demarcus Cousins
Zach Randolph
Stephen Curry
Derrick Rose
Blake Griffin
James Harden
Tony Parker
Russel Westbrook
Tyson Chandler
Kevin Love
Joachim Noah

[rmt]

Dwight Howard is a franchise player, and the best center in the league. He is a super star and players like kobe, wade, lebron and maybe durant and dirk are at his level. You cannot build a team around, roy, melo, nash, manu, pau, deron, al, and crhis and succeed like you can with dwight. He is your defensive anchor, and rebounding monster, as soon as he steps on the floor other teams completely change their offense. Now allot of those guys are much better scorers than dwight, and pau and al both have much better post moves but overall i put dwight ahead of them

Are you stating that Kobe and Wade are at DH's level and implying that Durant isn't? :roll:

[ReturnofJPR]

Joakim Noah, Luol Deng, and the Eastern Conference Player of the Week Carlos Boozer are the list too

[ralph_i_el]

Are you stating that Kobe and Wade are at DH's level and implying that Durant isn't? :roll:

that comment was from 2010 lol

[Horde of Temujin]

one more addition: telephone poll

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Joel Anthony

[Nick Young]

Undrafted Greg Smith is a better player than D12 this year.

[ShaqAttack3234]

one more addition: telephone poll

When you made the thread, it was ridiculous to suggest Dwight was not a top 5 player. He was from 2009-2012. And after this thread, he went on to dominate during the 2011 season.

This Dwight is not the Orlando Dwight for a variety of reasons. He's still not near 100%, and has only shown flashes of his previous athleticism. He's missing close shots he would have brought the rim down with in Orlando, and his go to shot, the jump hook hasn't been there, he's probably made less than half of how many he use to make. Plus, he went from a system built around his strengths, to a system that he doesn't fit in at all. Went from one of the most underrated coaches(Stan Van Gundy) to a terrible coach.

The difference is obvious both offensively and defensively. Dwight has gone from a top 5 player 4 years in a row to probably not even a top 15 player this season.

[longtime lurker]

A used condom. It at least offers protection more than 50% of the time

[Mr Exlax]

Does anybody here realize he's still not 100%? I mean, he had back surgery and wasn't supposed to come back until this month. He came back early so that's going to slow down recovery time.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Does anybody here realize he's still not 100%? I mean, he had back surgery and wasn't supposed to come back until this month. He came back early so that's going to slow down recovery time.

Maybe he'll start looking better physically after the all-star break with the rest, and also since he was expected to be back by then. Honestly, I think he should sit out the all-star game. Dwight does have to play harder, but D'Antoni has to make a real effort to establish him in the post early in games. I have no idea what he was thinking having him barely touch the ball in the first and then going to him in the post in the 2nd. It's tough to judge his offensive game when they go to him just a few times a game in the post. But D'Antoni is a terrible coach, what else is new?

[STATUTORY]

Maybe he'll start looking better physically after the all-star break with the rest, and also since he was expected to be back by then. Honestly, I think he should sit out the all-star game. Dwight does have to play harder, but D'Antoni has to make a real effort to establish him in the post early in games. I have no idea what he was thinking having him barely touch the ball in the first and then going to him in the post in the 2nd. It's tough to judge his offensive game when they go to him just a few times a game in the post. But D'Antoni is a terrible coach, what else is new?

r u watching the games? he is touching the ball, he gets stripped, steps out of bounds, or goes up for a weak layup and casually bricks 2 free throws when he does.

Dantoni is a bad coach but that doesn't absolve Dwight of his play. the guy has been garbage. Lakers look better offensively when Gasol is playing center. He has no moves and looks like robocop trying to learn how to walk each time he gets the ball down in the post. it's always that same stupid spin move that exposes the ball to the defender and causes a turnover.

without hops he's a lower tier center flat out.

off the court he's just a disaster. waving a stat sheet and dissing teammate behind their back. pure petty effeminate shit.

[ShaqAttack3234]

r u watching the games? he is touching the ball, he gets stripped, steps out of bounds, or goes up for a weak layup and casually bricks 2 free throws when he does.

Dantoni is a bad coach but that doesn't absolve Dwight of his play. the guy has been garbage. Lakers look better offensively when Gasol is playing center. He has no moves and looks like robocop trying to learn how to walk each time he gets the ball down in the post. it's always that same stupid spin move that exposes the ball to the defender and causes a turnover.

without hops he's a lower tier center flat out.

off the court he's just a disaster. waving a stat sheet and dissing teammate behind their back. pure petty effeminate shit.

I am watching the games, just watched the Chicago game and admitted he was unbelievably bad. That's how I knew D'Antoni didn't have him touch the ball basically at all in the first and all of a sudden tries establishing him in the post in the second.

He rarely gets post up opportunities. That's a fact, certainly not enough to get into a rhythm. They try force feeding the ball into him when he's under the basket in a crowd. Even when he does get a hook shot off, if he misses, they usually go away from him for most of the game. You can't be at your best offensively that way.

And I never gave Dwight a pass. I've said that he needs to play harder and have a better attitude. But it's not all his fault. He hasn't been put in a position to succeed either, and as a big man you need that.

He has gotten stripped a lot, and he's committing very stupid fouls(particularly last night when all of his fouls were stupid and unnecessary) but if he was stripped nearly as much as some exaggerate, he'd be averaging more than 3.2 turnovers per game, and if he missed everything, or was as useless as some suggest, he wouldn't be averaging 17 on 58%.

I think he's been worse than the stats suggest offensively, but even so, a truly bad offensive center couldn't do that. Especially not in this situation.

By the way, Pau is clearly the better offensive player when he's utilized properly, no argument there. I've blasted D'Antoni for the way he's used Pau, but Pau's attitude has also been poor.

[Nick Young]

YES! The only move Dwight consistently displays is that shitty spin-move into a crowded lane where he brings the ball low into traffic, which most of the time results in a foul or strip and sometimes ends in a jump hook which doesn't even consistently go in. HE ONLY SPINS ONE WAY THOUGH AND DOESNT SEEM TO KNOW HOW TO GO BASELINE. It's really quite embarrassing this uncoordinated clown with brick hands thinks he should be the main option on offense on this Lakers team.

If anyone should be getting more touches in the post it is Pau and D12 should be clearing his scrub ass out doing nothing but setting screens and crashing the boards to catch Pau and Kobe's misses.

Dwight needs to realize that the only way he will win a title is as the garbage man, not as the main guy.

[Horde of Temujin]

When you made the thread, it was ridiculous to suggest Dwight was not a top 5 player. He was from 2009-2012. And after this thread, he went on to dominate during the 2011 season.

This Dwight is not the Orlando Dwight for a variety of reasons. He's still not near 100%, and has only shown flashes of his previous athleticism. He's missing close shots he would have brought the rim down with in Orlando, and his go to shot, the jump hook hasn't been there, he's probably made less than half of how many he use to make. Plus, he went from a system built around his strengths, to a system that he doesn't fit in at all. Went from one of the most underrated coaches(Stan Van Gundy) to a terrible coach.

The difference is obvious both offensively and defensively. Dwight has gone from a top 5 player 4 years in a row to probably not even a top 15 player this season.

I always welcome your input, but I respectfully disagree. As you alluded to, I attribute Dwight's success in Orl to the system implemented by Stan Van Gundy, the lack of quality big men in the league, and a weak conference. I agree that SVG is an underrated coach.

I realize that I must come off a little overzealous but it is because I get irate by how much Dwight is overrated. No way have i ever seen this guy as a top 10 player in the league, not even close, yet alone as a top 2 or 3 as many were suggesting at the time I made this thread. Everytime I watch him I can't get over his lack of fundamentals and can't help but fathom how this guy would've stacked up against even the second or third tier centers of past decades. I honestly believe this guy would've been outplayed by the likes of Rik Smits, Vlade Divac, Brad Daugherty, or Bill Laimbeer. More gifted players who were never considered among the top 2 or 3 players in the leagur.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Only Lebron and CP3 are better than Dwight.

[Doctor Rivers]

Only Lebron and CP3 are better than Dwight.

Kevin Durant says hello

[STATUTORY]

I am watching the games, just watched the Chicago game and admitted he was unbelievably bad. That's how I knew D'Antoni didn't have him touch the ball basically at all in the first and all of a sudden tries establishing him in the post in the second.

He rarely gets post up opportunities. That's a fact, certainly not enough to get into a rhythm. They try force feeding the ball into him when he's under the basket in a crowd. Even when he does get a hook shot off, if he misses, they usually go away from him for most of the game. You can't be at your best offensively that way.

And I never gave Dwight a pass. I've said that he needs to play harder and have a better attitude. But it's not all his fault. He hasn't been put in a position to succeed either, and as a big man you need that.

He has gotten stripped a lot, and he's committing very stupid fouls(particularly last night when all of his fouls were stupid and unnecessary) but if he was stripped nearly as much as some exaggerate, he'd be averaging more than 3.2 turnovers per game, and if he missed everything, or was as useless as some suggest, he wouldn't be averaging 17 on 58%.

I think he's been worse than the stats suggest offensively, but even so, a truly bad offensive center couldn't do that. Especially not in this situation.

By the way, Pau is clearly the better offensive player when he's utilized properly, no argument there. I've blasted D'Antoni for the way he's used Pau, but Pau's attitude has also been poor.

Just judging the lack of fluidity in his moves, I can't at all fathom how a team or a coach can just trust dumping the ball to him 20 times a game and expect good outcome. It's not just about playing poorly, it's about how BAD he looks while he's doing it. when Kobe struggles shooting, he's still getting off good looking shots that at least look like they have a chance of going in. Dwight looks like someone who has never played ball let alone at the NBA level when he catches the ball inside.

I would say Pau's attitude has been saintly compared to Dwight's. Pau's been publicly maligned and embarrassed and he's still going out there trying to make the team better. this quote is telling:

[QUOTE]After the game he brought a stat sheet around the locker room to show some teammates and reporters how he got only five field-goal attempts ... a few minutes before the demoted Gasol spoke gracefully across the room about "not pointing fingers, owning up to our responsibilities, wanting to get out of this and having the pride necessary that it takes to utilize our talents and go beat the opponent

[Horde of Temujin]

Only Lebron and CP3 are better than Dwight.

Well, you'd be one happy camper if the Nets somehow land him.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I always welcome your input, but I respectfully disagree. As you alluded to, I attribute Dwight's success in Orl to the system implemented by Stan Van Gundy, the lack of quality big men in the league, and a weak conference. I agree that SVG is an underrated coach.

Well, I respect that your open to different opinions, but I don't think it's fair to attribute all of it to Van Gundy. I mean how many centers can be the best defensive player in the year and average 23/14 on 59%? Or for a 2 month stretch, 27/15 on 63%?

As far as the conference? Well, look at some of the games he had vs Western Conference playoff teams in 2011 alone.

40 points, 15 rebounds, 6 blocks, 16/20 FG, 8/12 FT vs OKC
39 points, 18 rebounds, 3 blocks, 13/20 FG, 13/18 FT vs Portland
39 points, 18 rebounds, 2 blocks, 11/19 FG, 17/20 FT vs OKC
31 points, 13 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 13/16 FG, 5/6 FT vs Lakers
29 points, 14 rebounds, 3 blocks, 11/13 FG, 7/12 FT vs Spurs
29 points, 20 rebounds, 2 blocks, 13/19 FG, 3/7 FT vs Hornets
26 points, 18 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks, 11/16 FG, 4/7 FT vs Spurs
26 points, 23 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks, 11/19 FG, 4/4 FT vs Dallas

Dwight was scoring consistently, and it wasn't all athleticism, he was no more athletic than he was in '07, '08 or '10, but scoring far more consistently. He wasn't a guy who just got his points by being spoonfed.

Here are some examples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBfWMNePCw&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=197#t=1m09s

Some more from the same game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBfWMNePCw&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=197#t=1m40s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBfWMNePCw&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=197#t=2m05s

Not an unusual game for him by any stretch. And here's another game that was also by no stretch unusual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=1m04s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=1m11s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=1m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=2m00s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=2m49s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=3m00s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=3m27s

I have a lot of respect for Van Gundy and think what Dwight did to him was a scumbag move. But Van Gundy simply did what a good coach does, which is put a talented player in a position to succeed and build around your franchise player's strengths.

Dwight did have greatly improved skills in 2011, and showed much of them in 2012. People were writing about his improved skills a lot in 2011, and I remember Van Gundy getting annoyed at people crediting Hakeem for Howard's improved skills rather than Howard for working on his game.

This wasn't that long ago, I can't believe people don't remember this.


I realize that I must come off a little overzealous but it is because I get irate by how much Dwight is overrated. No way have i ever seen this guy as a top 10 player in the league, not even close, yet alone as a top 2 or 3 as many were suggesting at the time I made this thread. Everytime I watch him I can't get over his lack of fundamentals and can't help but fathom how this guy would've stacked up against even the second or third tier centers of past decades. I honestly believe this guy would've been outplayed by the likes of Rik Smits, Vlade Divac, Brad Daugherty, or Bill Laimbeer. More gifted players who were never considered among the top 2 or 3 players in the leagur.

I think you're greatly exaggerating. I honestly can't see how anyone could think he wasn't top 10 every year from 2008-2012, and certainly can't see even a single argument for Dwight being out of the top 5 in 2011.


Just judging the lack of fluidity in his moves, I can't at all fathom how a team or a coach can just trust dumping the ball to him 20 times a game and expect good outcome. It's not just about playing poorly, it's about how BAD he looks while he's doing it. when Kobe struggles shooting, he's still getting off good looking shots that at least look like they have a chance of going in. Dwight looks like someone who has never played ball let alone at the NBA level when he catches the ball inside.

I would say Pau's attitude has been saintly compared to Dwight's. Pau's been publicly maligned and embarrassed and he's still going out there trying to make the team better. this quote is telling:

That's the thing, though, he's not getting a chance to get into any rhythm offensively, and they're not running anything that utilizes his strengths. Why not run a few sets from his Orlando days?

A problem is that Dwight isn't what he was physically when he was in Orlando, but look at the videos I posted above with him consistently getting his own shot. No reason why he can't at least do some of that if given the chance.

They should just try establishing him early. If it doesn't work, then go away from him. Kobe can get his whenever he wants, he's shown in the past that he can be passive in the 1st and still end up with 35-40.

I've always like Pau, but his attitude really hasn't been good, and it's clear he's not happy. I don't blame him one bit, but he's pretty much deadweight for this Laker team at this point. I don't see him bouncing back to the old Gasol in LA, and he's 32 so I really think it's time to trade him, and Pau seems like he'd be fine with that.

[Horde of Temujin]

Well, I respect that your open to different opinions, but I don't think it's fair to attribute all of it to Van Gundy. I mean how many centers can be the best defensive player in the year and average 23/14 on 59%? Or for a 2 month stretch, 27/15 on 63%?

As far as the conference? Well, look at some of the games he had vs Western Conference playoff teams in 2011 alone.

40 points, 15 rebounds, 6 blocks, 16/20 FG, 8/12 FT vs OKC
39 points, 18 rebounds, 3 blocks, 13/20 FG, 13/18 FT vs Portland
39 points, 18 rebounds, 2 blocks, 11/19 FG, 17/20 FT vs OKC
31 points, 13 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks, 13/16 FG, 5/6 FT vs Lakers
29 points, 14 rebounds, 3 blocks, 11/13 FG, 7/12 FT vs Spurs
29 points, 20 rebounds, 2 blocks, 13/19 FG, 3/7 FT vs Hornets
26 points, 18 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks, 11/16 FG, 4/7 FT vs Spurs
26 points, 23 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks, 11/19 FG, 4/4 FT vs Dallas

Dwight was scoring consistently, and it wasn't all athleticism, he was no more athletic than he was in '07, '08 or '10, but scoring far more consistently. He wasn't a guy who just got his points by being spoonfed.

Here are some examples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBfWMNePCw&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=197#t=1m09s

Some more from the same game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBfWMNePCw&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=197#t=1m40s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBfWMNePCw&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=197#t=2m05s

Not an unusual game for him by any stretch. And here's another game that was also by no stretch unusual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=1m04s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=1m11s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=1m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=2m00s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=2m49s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=3m00s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b87T0KYc&list=UU9WYFilouknOqaEnLuEbVww&index=198#t=3m27s

I have a lot of respect for Van Gundy and think what Dwight did to him was a scumbag move. But Van Gundy simply did what a good coach does, which is put a talented player in a position to succeed and build around your franchise player's strengths.

Dwight did have greatly improved skills in 2011, and showed much of them in 2012. People were writing about his improved skills a lot in 2011, and I remember Van Gundy getting annoyed at people crediting Hakeem for Howard's improved skills rather than Howard for working on his game.

This wasn't that long ago, I can't believe people don't remember this.



I think you're greatly exaggerating. I honestly can't see how anyone could think he wasn't top 10 every year from 2008-2012, and certainly can't see even a single argument for Dwight being out of the top 5 in 2011.



That's the thing, though, he's not getting a chance to get into any rhythm offensively, and they're not running anything that utilizes his strengths. Why not run a few sets from his Orlando days?

A problem is that Dwight isn't what he was physically when he was in Orlando, but look at the videos I posted above with him consistently getting his own shot. No reason why he can't at least do some of that if given the chance.

They should just try establishing him early. If it doesn't work, then go away from him. Kobe can get his whenever he wants, he's shown in the past that he can be passive in the 1st and still end up with 35-40.

I've always like Pau, but his attitude really hasn't been good, and it's clear he's not happy. I don't blame him one bit, but he's pretty much deadweight for this Laker team at this point. I don't see him bouncing back to the old Gasol in LA, and he's 32 so I really think it's time to trade him, and Pau seems like he'd be fine with that.

The problem I have is that I don't respect players who rely heavily on athleticism as much as others who are skilled. In my opinion Olajuwon was the best center to play, certainly the best that I have seen, he had the combination of athleticism and skill. He was truly a marvel and is the benchmark in which I measure all centers against.
I must acknowledge that those stat lines you posted are undeniable and could not be put up by any ordinary scrub. So I guess I will have to say what bothers me is that Dwight is an amazingly athletic player who has not lived up to his potential. He could be so much more!
While Dwight does display some moves and decent footwork in the videos he posted, he always relied mostly on his freakish level of athleticism to get his points. His rebounding and defensive prowess is unquestionable, one thing that always bothered me which is prevalent among many players in the league, is why the hell can't he just catch the ball instead of swatting it out of bounds!
Some argue that Dwight's current woes are attributed to a flawed system and a lack of touches. I feel it is due to the lack of a fundamental skill set to compensate for his back injury. The effect of his injury on his game is obvious and I guess I should cut the guy some slack (but as you can see my hate runs deep since I started this thread at the peak of his powers) He also has a terrible attitude. I think the Lakers should trade Dwight. The reason Pau is deadweight is because of the inability to mesh with Dwight and if you have to choose between the two, i would go with Pau.

How do you think Dwight measures up to centers from the 90's and 80's? As I stated earlier, I don't think he was even better than guys like Vlade, Rik Smits, Artis Gilmore, Brad Daugherty, Arvidas Sabonis, Mourning, yet alone the all-time greats such as Hakeem, Shaq, and Kareem. There are some misconceptions of today's game but it is absolutely true that the number of quality centers in the league has diminished.

[Linspired]

there are only about 6 guys i'll take over dwight

[Horde of Temujin]

there are only about 6 guys i'll take over dwight

Is one of them jeremy lin?

[Horde of Temujin]

Judging by the atrocious level of play of the Lakers team as a whole and the stupidity of its ownership, not to mention its coaching, as well as his recovery from surgery. Dwight's poor play this season should not be taken too seriously. I have to cut the guy some slack. However, his poor attitude has not changed one bit and I still consider him to be massively overrated up until the 2011 season,

[ShaqAttack3234]

The problem I have is that I don't respect players who rely heavily on athleticism as much as others who are skilled. In my opinion Olajuwon was the best center to play, certainly the best that I have seen, he had the combination of athleticism and skill. He was truly a marvel and is the benchmark in which I measure all centers against.
I must acknowledge that those stat lines you posted are undeniable and could not be put up by any ordinary scrub. So I guess I will have to say what bothers me is that Dwight is an amazingly athletic player who has not lived up to his potential. He could be so much more!

Obviously, Dwight isn't the most skilled big man, but I think there is a natural limit to his skills. Many guys naturally have better hands, a better touch, better footwork ect. And Dwight certainly isn't Hakeem, or anywhere close.

Sadly, I don't think we'll see what he could have been. Returning to pre-back injury athleticism is looking more and more unlikely. Plus, he hasn't seemed the same mentally since 2011, and it's gotten worse. That's the only explanation I can think of for 6 straight years of a mediocre, but much better 59-60% before dropping to 49-50% the last 2 seasons.

I wanted to see Dwight maintain his 2011 skills, and even improve on them a little, while becoming a better passer and getting up to about 65% from the line before losing his athleticism. I think those were all reasonable expectations at the time, but I doubt we'll see Dwight like that.


While Dwight does display some moves and decent footwork in the videos he posted, he always relied mostly on his freakish level of athleticism to get his points. His rebounding and defensive prowess is unquestionable, one thing that always bothered me which is prevalent among many players in the league, is why the hell can't he just catch the ball instead of swatting it out of bounds!

I think that's valid, and all I was saying was that 2011 Dwight wasn't an unskilled player. He wasn't Gasol, but he had enough skills to consistently get his shot in the post. At the time, I'd describe his skill set as limited, but effective, and combined with his physical ability, made him a real force.

As far as keeping his blocks in play, well, he was actually doing much better with that in 2012. Strange, because he seemed less focused in 2012 than 2011, but I noticed him blocking less shots out of bounds than before, or certainly than he has this year.


Some argue that Dwight's current woes are attributed to a flawed system and a lack of touches. I feel it is due to the lack of a fundamental skill set to compensate for his back injury. The effect of his injury on his game is obvious and I guess I should cut the guy some slack (but as you can see my hate runs deep since I started this thread at the peak of his powers) He also has a terrible attitude. I think the Lakers should trade Dwight. The reason Pau is deadweight is because of the inability to mesh with Dwight and if you have to choose between the two, i would go with Pau.

I think Dwight is the better choice at this point because Pau hasn't been right mentally since the 2011 playoffs, and he's 32. As disappointed as I think Dwight's been, I'd have to choose him for the future.


How do you think Dwight measures up to centers from the 90's and 80's? As I stated earlier, I don't think he was even better than guys like Vlade, Rik Smits, Artis Gilmore, Brad Daugherty, Arvidas Sabonis, Mourning, yet alone the all-time greats such as Hakeem, Shaq, and Kareem. There are some misconceptions of today's game but it is absolutely true that the number of quality centers in the league has diminished.

Dwight now? Or Dwight before the injury? Dwight has never been close to Kareem, Shaq or Hakeem, and never will, but I'd probably take 2011 Dwight over the others, except maybe '99/'00 Mourning who I think was very close. 2009-2012 Dwight was in another tier than Vlade, Smits and NBA-era Sabonis who I can't see being franchise players in any era. Daugherty was definitely a better offensive player than Dwight has ever been or ever will be, but I'd take pre-injury Dwight for his superior defense and mobility.